Re: [Emc-users] [OT] CAM Simulation?
2011/5/11 andy pugh > On 6 May 2011 02:11, Mark wrote: > > > If someone patented several variations of "metal cylinder to transmit > power" > > and you needed a driveshaft, you would be screwed. > > It happened. James Watt didn't use this peculiar linkage because he > wanted to, but because someone had a patent on the "crank" > > http://digital.nls.uk/scientists/assets/images/content/james_watt/boulton-watt-engine.jpg > Similarly a set of patents in the early days of motoring did nothing > more than make one man quite wealthy. > http://www.bpmlegal.com/wselden.html > > This is why I think that patents should last 5-10-15 years depending on field/industry. Otherwise they just impede progress. Andrew -- > atp > "Torque wrenches are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise > men" > > > -- > Achieve unprecedented app performance and reliability > What every C/C++ and Fortran developer should know. > Learn how Intel has extended the reach of its next-generation tools > to help boost performance applications - inlcuding clusters. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devmay > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > -- Achieve unprecedented app performance and reliability What every C/C++ and Fortran developer should know. Learn how Intel has extended the reach of its next-generation tools to help boost performance applications - inlcuding clusters. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devmay ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] [OT] CAM Simulation?
On 6 May 2011 02:11, Mark wrote: > If someone patented several variations of "metal cylinder to transmit power" > and you needed a driveshaft, you would be screwed. It happened. James Watt didn't use this peculiar linkage because he wanted to, but because someone had a patent on the "crank" http://digital.nls.uk/scientists/assets/images/content/james_watt/boulton-watt-engine.jpg Similarly a set of patents in the early days of motoring did nothing more than make one man quite wealthy. http://www.bpmlegal.com/wselden.html -- atp "Torque wrenches are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men" -- Achieve unprecedented app performance and reliability What every C/C++ and Fortran developer should know. Learn how Intel has extended the reach of its next-generation tools to help boost performance applications - inlcuding clusters. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devmay ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] [OT] CAM Simulation?
On Fri, 2011-05-06 at 19:01 +1000, Erik Christiansen wrote: > On Thu, May 05, 2011 at 08:29:00PM -0500, R. van Twisk wrote: > > > > Mark, I partially agree with you, > > what if I (as a person) invent something great, but I don't have the > > resources > > to back it up. Then I am going to be a poor puppy. > > If you have evidence of making the thing before, then you can continue > to make and sell it. Dated laboratory notebooks have served that purpose > in the past. If you've been selling it, or otherwise gone public, then > your "prior art" can totally invalidate the patent. (For those of us who > can't afford patenting costs, or think the invention isn't worthy of > patenting, then cutting off parasites, by putting it in the public > domain, may be our only comfort.) > > Google has just been in the courts over a "garbage collection in linked > lists" patent. To me that sounds a bit like patenting pi. Algorithms and > data manipulations are just "where you drive your cpu" in program-land. > I do not have any way of seeing barbed-wire fences when driving there, > other than look-and-feel, i.e. copyrightable product appearance and > identity. But then, for our own use there are none. > > Since FOSS isn't sold, its private use cannot readily be stopped by > patents. Can't we just ignore them? > > > I kinda like the system in Europe, there are no software patents there, > > and thee is no such thing 'Let me make a patent of swiping a finger across > > a display to do whatever action'. > > We had that here in Australia, until a "Free Trade Agreement" with USA set > numerous restrictions on our trade freedom. (Currently proposed > extensions include allowing US companies to sue our government if future > policy formulations impact in any way on corporate profitability.) > > Patents are currently used to restrict competition, not advance human > knowledge. > > Erik > Originally, patents were supposed to lapse in 17 years. However, greed has triumphed and they now can be extended. I have heard of cases where the inventor didn't apply for a patent; just jumped into the market assuming a 2-3 year product lead would make him safe. just my tuppence. Dave "Not all that you read on the internet is true" ... A. Lincoln -- WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network management toolset available today. Delivers lowest initial acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution. http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] [OT] CAM Simulation?
On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 8:13 AM, Stuart Stevenson wrote: > I am not an attorney so this is not legal advice. > > regarding patents - > It is my understanding you can produce, reproduce any patented item for your > own use and not be in violation of the patent restrictions. This is not true in the U.S. Our system is truly messed up. Eric Keller -- WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network management toolset available today. Delivers lowest initial acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution. http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] [OT] CAM Simulation?
I am not an attorney so this is not legal advice. regarding patents - It is my understanding you can produce, reproduce any patented item for your own use and not be in violation of the patent restrictions. You cannot distribute in any fashion. regarding copywrite - I do not know. thoughts, comments, rants and rages welcome :) Stuart On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 4:01 AM, Erik Christiansen wrote: > On Thu, May 05, 2011 at 08:29:00PM -0500, R. van Twisk wrote: > > > > Mark, I partially agree with you, > > what if I (as a person) invent something great, but I don't have the > resources > > to back it up. Then I am going to be a poor puppy. > > If you have evidence of making the thing before, then you can continue > to make and sell it. Dated laboratory notebooks have served that purpose > in the past. If you've been selling it, or otherwise gone public, then > your "prior art" can totally invalidate the patent. (For those of us who > can't afford patenting costs, or think the invention isn't worthy of > patenting, then cutting off parasites, by putting it in the public > domain, may be our only comfort.) > > Google has just been in the courts over a "garbage collection in linked > lists" patent. To me that sounds a bit like patenting pi. Algorithms and > data manipulations are just "where you drive your cpu" in program-land. > I do not have any way of seeing barbed-wire fences when driving there, > other than look-and-feel, i.e. copyrightable product appearance and > identity. But then, for our own use there are none. > > Since FOSS isn't sold, its private use cannot readily be stopped by > patents. Can't we just ignore them? > > > I kinda like the system in Europe, there are no software patents there, > > and thee is no such thing 'Let me make a patent of swiping a finger > across > > a display to do whatever action'. > > We had that here in Australia, until a "Free Trade Agreement" with USA set > numerous restrictions on our trade freedom. (Currently proposed > extensions include allowing US companies to sue our government if future > policy formulations impact in any way on corporate profitability.) > > Patents are currently used to restrict competition, not advance human > knowledge. > > Erik > > -- > All the really good ideas I ever had came to me while I was milking a cow. > - Grant Wood > > > -- > WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software > The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network > management toolset available today. Delivers lowest initial > acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > -- dos centavos -- WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network management toolset available today. Delivers lowest initial acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution. http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] [OT] CAM Simulation?
On Thu, May 05, 2011 at 08:29:00PM -0500, R. van Twisk wrote: > > Mark, I partially agree with you, > what if I (as a person) invent something great, but I don't have the resources > to back it up. Then I am going to be a poor puppy. If you have evidence of making the thing before, then you can continue to make and sell it. Dated laboratory notebooks have served that purpose in the past. If you've been selling it, or otherwise gone public, then your "prior art" can totally invalidate the patent. (For those of us who can't afford patenting costs, or think the invention isn't worthy of patenting, then cutting off parasites, by putting it in the public domain, may be our only comfort.) Google has just been in the courts over a "garbage collection in linked lists" patent. To me that sounds a bit like patenting pi. Algorithms and data manipulations are just "where you drive your cpu" in program-land. I do not have any way of seeing barbed-wire fences when driving there, other than look-and-feel, i.e. copyrightable product appearance and identity. But then, for our own use there are none. Since FOSS isn't sold, its private use cannot readily be stopped by patents. Can't we just ignore them? > I kinda like the system in Europe, there are no software patents there, > and thee is no such thing 'Let me make a patent of swiping a finger across > a display to do whatever action'. We had that here in Australia, until a "Free Trade Agreement" with USA set numerous restrictions on our trade freedom. (Currently proposed extensions include allowing US companies to sue our government if future policy formulations impact in any way on corporate profitability.) Patents are currently used to restrict competition, not advance human knowledge. Erik -- All the really good ideas I ever had came to me while I was milking a cow. - Grant Wood -- WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network management toolset available today. Delivers lowest initial acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution. http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] [OT] CAM Simulation?
On May 5, 2011, at 8:11 PM, Mark wrote: > On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 9:14 AM, Stuart Stevenson wrote: > >> On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 7:31 AM, Przemek Klosowski < >> przemek.klosow...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 4:54 PM, Mark wrote: >>> FYI - I sent Balazs an email several months ago asking if the source >> was available. He replied that he wasn't able to release the source >> because >>> he had (or was applying for) patents. >>> >>> Interesting comment because the whole point of the patent system is to >>> release the information on inventions to the public, while protecting >>> the inventor's rights. I think it's yet another example of the patent >>> system not working as intended, and needing the reform >> >> or lack of understanding >> >> -- >> dos centavos > > > If someone patented several variations of "metal cylinder to transmit power" > and you needed a driveshaft, you would be screwed. Same for a piston, roller > bearing, etc. Most of the software patents seem to be analogous to this. > > It would be a moot point if we could convince WIPO et al that source code > should't be patentable (either because it's an algorithm, or because > software patents do more harm than good). Unfortunately, there seems to be > a lot of money backing the opposing opinion. > > I'm not terribly fond of patents in general; patents seem to be used as > weapons by large companies to scare off competition/innovation. I wish > there was a use-it-or-lose-it provision in IP law - if you can't prove that > products on the market use your patent, and can't prove that you have R&D > expenses related to the patent, then you lose the right to enforce your > patent or to mention the patent in litigation. Not a perfect solution, I'm > sure, but given some of the horror stories I've heard, I think it would be > an improvement. > > $.02 > Mark, I partially agree with you, what if I (as a person) invent something great, but I don't have the resources to back it up. Then I am going to be a poor puppy. I kinda like the system in Europe, there are no software patents there, and thee is no such thing 'Let me make a patent of swiping a finger across a display to do whatever action'. I think the software industry needs to be reminded to this lady : http://www.ted.com/talks/johanna_blakley_lessons_from_fashion_s_free_culture.html Now you might thinking, fashion?? But if you watch the whole TED movie, you will notice she has a good point. Patent FREE industry has MUCH bigger turnover then industries that USES patents. If we could only share our code a lot more efficient, then it wouldn't stall innovation so much. This goes for all industries where patents are applied. I am not against patents, but it would be nice if the patents are better priced, so companies could innovate easers by grabbing patents together pay a fee and build something out of it, just like shopping in a patent supermarket. Ries -- WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network management toolset available today. Delivers lowest initial acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution. http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] [OT] CAM Simulation?
On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 9:14 AM, Stuart Stevenson wrote: > On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 7:31 AM, Przemek Klosowski < > przemek.klosow...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 4:54 PM, Mark wrote: > > > > > FYI - I sent Balazs an email several months ago asking if the source > was > > > available. He replied that he wasn't able to release the source > because > > he > > > had (or was applying for) patents. > > > > Interesting comment because the whole point of the patent system is to > > release the information on inventions to the public, while protecting > > the inventor's rights. I think it's yet another example of the patent > > system not working as intended, and needing the reform > > or lack of understanding > > -- > dos centavos If someone patented several variations of "metal cylinder to transmit power" and you needed a driveshaft, you would be screwed. Same for a piston, roller bearing, etc. Most of the software patents seem to be analogous to this. It would be a moot point if we could convince WIPO et al that source code should't be patentable (either because it's an algorithm, or because software patents do more harm than good). Unfortunately, there seems to be a lot of money backing the opposing opinion. I'm not terribly fond of patents in general; patents seem to be used as weapons by large companies to scare off competition/innovation. I wish there was a use-it-or-lose-it provision in IP law - if you can't prove that products on the market use your patent, and can't prove that you have R&D expenses related to the patent, then you lose the right to enforce your patent or to mention the patent in litigation. Not a perfect solution, I'm sure, but given some of the horror stories I've heard, I think it would be an improvement. $.02 Mark -- WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network management toolset available today. Delivers lowest initial acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution. http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] [OT] CAM Simulation?
On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 7:31 AM, Przemek Klosowski < przemek.klosow...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 4:54 PM, Mark wrote: > > > FYI - I sent Balazs an email several months ago asking if the source was > > available. He replied that he wasn't able to release the source because > he > > had (or was applying for) patents. > > Interesting comment because the whole point of the patent system is to > release the information on inventions to the public, while protecting > the inventor's rights. I think it's yet another example of the patent > system not working as intended, and needing the reform > > or lack of understanding -- dos centavos -- WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network management toolset available today. Delivers lowest initial acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution. http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] [OT] CAM Simulation?
On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 4:54 PM, Mark wrote: > FYI - I sent Balazs an email several months ago asking if the source was > available. He replied that he wasn't able to release the source because he > had (or was applying for) patents. Interesting comment because the whole point of the patent system is to release the information on inventions to the public, while protecting the inventor's rights. I think it's yet another example of the patent system not working as intended, and needing the reform -- WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network management toolset available today. Delivers lowest initial acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution. http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] [OT] CAM Simulation?
Hi Mark > FYI - I sent Balazs an email several months ago asking if the source > was available. He replied that he wasn't able to release the source > because he had (or was applying for) patents. Hmm... I don't know hat exactly what he is doing, but the idea of using the GPU seams to be pretty obvious in that context. According to his Paper he stores the entire stock model in GPU memory thought that might bring a performance boost it limits the resolution of the simulation - well to 2 GB in my case... so no a big problem. :-) > I hope you're able to benefit from the GPU, but you may have to > work around those patents if you live in a country where they > are enforceable. Well, at least at the moment I'm not to much interested into high performance and I'm not working on a commercial product but rather a proof of concept implementation as part of my research work. cu Flo -- WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network management toolset available today. Delivers lowest initial acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution. http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] [OT] CAM Simulation?
On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 10:08 AM, Anders Wallin wrote: > > Phu... I guess I have to learn some OpenGL. And I wanted to look at > > OpenCL for tool path generation, single precision floating points would > > will most probably be sufficient for tool path generation, I guess. > > > > Did you think about using the GPU to do the calculations for the > simulation? > > There are one or two papers by Tukora about this: > http://www.youtube.com/user/BalazsTukora > and > http://dx.doi.org/10.1201/9780203859476.ch93 > > FYI - I sent Balazs an email several months ago asking if the source was available. He replied that he wasn't able to release the source because he had (or was applying for) patents. I hope you're able to benefit from the GPU, but you may have to work around those patents if you live in a country where they are enforceable. Bleh! Florian, your toolpath generation work would definitely be of interest to us. I hope you can release it under an open source license. Mark -- WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network management toolset available today. Delivers lowest initial acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution. http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] [OT] CAM Simulation?
> Phu... I guess I have to learn some OpenGL. And I wanted to look at > OpenCL for tool path generation, single precision floating points would > will most probably be sufficient for tool path generation, I guess. > > Did you think about using the GPU to do the calculations for the simulation? There are one or two papers by Tukora about this: http://www.youtube.com/user/BalazsTukora and http://dx.doi.org/10.1201/9780203859476.ch93 I don't know much about GPU-based algorithms, but I think it's based on doing boolean operations between two tri-dexel models (one for the stock, one for the tool) quickly in parallel. The isosurface algorithm can probably also be parallellized on a GPU. If the opencamlib cutting simulation can be made to run fast enough with straight c++ on a CPU then I'm not so keen on learning OpenCL and introducing special hardware requirements. Right now the stock-update takes milliseconds and triangle extraction tens of milliseconds. > For now I'll try to set up a build environment for your libraries. I'm > on Windows 7 (64 bit) most of the time. Would you suggest to switch to > Ubuntu? I would probably be easier to set-up reverting to compile your > libraries, right? Dan Heeks and others have built opencamlib on windows using the visual studio project file in SVN. The free visual studio express does not have OpenMP support (for multi-threading). Using cmake and gcc on linux is probably easier. I have upgraded my machines to Ubuntu 11.04 now. It might be possible to use the same tools on Windows using cygwin, but I haven't tried. Anders -- WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network management toolset available today. Delivers lowest initial acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution. http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] [OT] CAM Simulation?
Hi, I'm right now working on the introduction of the dynamics / kinematics of arbitrary virtual machines on EMC, actually in HAL. I have already something working pretty well but I would like to have something general and then check with the developers if it fits EMC or HAL somewhere. I would provide a MultiBody C++ library that makes the generation of the dynamics / kinematics more or less straight forward. As everything is virtual, it works not only in Real-Time but also as a Simulator. To make the simulation more realistic It would be wonderful to be able to introduce the cutting forces. I think that it would be great if "opencamlib" could be interfaced to HAL. That would make EMC a great teaching / research / design realistic platform. It would also allow EMC developers to check EMC behavior with different machines. Best regards, Javier On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 3:21 PM, Florian Rist wrote: > Dear Anders, > thanks for explanations. > > > (a) interpreter ... > > In my special case this is not a problem. I'm working on a tool path > generation algorithm, the output will be a dense list of tool positions > that I could directly use for the simulation. So I don't need g-code > interpretation, actually I need the other way round. > > > (b) stock model ... > > Using octree representation of a distance field seams to be a > straightforward approach. Storing the actual intersection data sounds > like a idea cool, though, but to complex for me. > > > (c) surface extraction ... > > > (d) rendering interface ... > > Phu... I guess I have to learn some OpenGL. And I wanted to look at > OpenCL for tool path generation, single precision floating points would > will most probably be sufficient for tool path generation, I guess. > > Did you think about using the GPU to do the calculations for the > simulation? > > > As usual I have a lot of pdf papers about these things if anyone wants > > to read! :) > > I do. :-) Thanks a lot. > > > I am a bit busy now in May but if there is interest, esp. wrt. emc2 > > interpreter and opengl/rendering on emc2-distro or even AXIS, then it > > would be great to get something going in June or so. > > I'm working on a PhD related to tool path generation. So maybe some of > this work might also be of interest to the emc2 community. > > For now I'll try to set up a build environment for your libraries. I'm > on Windows 7 (64 bit) most of the time. Would you suggest to switch to > Ubuntu? I would probably be easier to set-up reverting to compile your > libraries, right? > > See you > Flo > > > -- > WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software > The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network > management toolset available today. Delivers lowest initial > acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > -- WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network management toolset available today. Delivers lowest initial acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution. http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] [OT] CAM Simulation?
Dear Anders, thanks for explanations. > (a) interpreter ... In my special case this is not a problem. I'm working on a tool path generation algorithm, the output will be a dense list of tool positions that I could directly use for the simulation. So I don't need g-code interpretation, actually I need the other way round. > (b) stock model ... Using octree representation of a distance field seams to be a straightforward approach. Storing the actual intersection data sounds like a idea cool, though, but to complex for me. > (c) surface extraction ... > (d) rendering interface ... Phu... I guess I have to learn some OpenGL. And I wanted to look at OpenCL for tool path generation, single precision floating points would will most probably be sufficient for tool path generation, I guess. Did you think about using the GPU to do the calculations for the simulation? > As usual I have a lot of pdf papers about these things if anyone wants > to read! :) I do. :-) Thanks a lot. > I am a bit busy now in May but if there is interest, esp. wrt. emc2 > interpreter and opengl/rendering on emc2-distro or even AXIS, then it > would be great to get something going in June or so. I'm working on a PhD related to tool path generation. So maybe some of this work might also be of interest to the emc2 community. For now I'll try to set up a build environment for your libraries. I'm on Windows 7 (64 bit) most of the time. Would you suggest to switch to Ubuntu? I would probably be easier to set-up reverting to compile your libraries, right? See you Flo -- WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network management toolset available today. Delivers lowest initial acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution. http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] [OT] CAM Simulation?
>> Look at what Anders Wallin is doing with opencamlib >> http://www.anderswallin.net/ > > Thanks for the link. Look good: http://code.google.com/p/opencamlib/ Hi all, There are about three or four parts (objects) that make up a simulation. Some are sort of ready, some are not. (a) interpreter (read in g-code, call simulator with something close to emc2 canon-commands) (b) stock model. Now I am using a scalar distance field stored in an octree. Some of the better isosurface extraction algorithms store exact intersections as well as normal data in the octree also. (c) surface extraction. This algorithm/object looks at the octree and produces triangles for rendering. The simplest one is classic lorensen&cline marching-cubes, but there are newer ones that handle sharp edges better. (d) rendering interface. My latest experiment uses a Qt QGLWidget (a wrapper around OpenGL) and an OpenGL VBO to store triangles. The stock model calls deleteTriangle on triangles that are cut, the surface extraction algorithm calls addTriangle to add new triangles. I have not looked at (a) seriously at all. It would be great if someone familiar with the emc2 interp could help. For now (b) stores a scalar distance field, and the updates are done with the tool "static", i.e. positioned at some (x,y,z) position. This means that a G0/1/2/3 move should be sampled densely and the cutter subtracted for each sample position. A fancier/faster(?) version would calculate the cutter sweep volume for a G0/1/2/3 move and subtract the whole sweep. This is not trivial for 4/5-axis simultaneous G1/2/3 moves. I have a simple marching-cubes algorithm for (c). Extended marching cubes (Kobbelt) or dual contouring (Ju et al) would be better, but also more computationally expensive. Requires some rewriting of the octree and cutting-volume classes to store 'hermite'-data (exact intersections and normals). Kobbelt has a reference implementation online which should prove useful to at least look at. For rendering (d) I am using QGLWidget just because I got it to work quite painlessly. For emc2 any OpenGL/toolkit would do. I was driving things(c++ objects) from python previously, but now I think that is too slow for rendering and it all needs to be c++. As usual I have a lot of pdf papers about these things if anyone wants to read! :) I am a bit busy now in May but if there is interest, esp. wrt. emc2 interpreter and opengl/rendering on emc2-distro or even AXIS, then it would be great to get something going in June or so. Anders -- WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network management toolset available today. Delivers lowest initial acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution. http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] [OT] CAM Simulation?
Hi, a very good simulation software for generated g-code and how it would be executed are "the metacut utilities". It can simulate the stock and the used tools to show how it will be processed. Ciao, Rainer URL: http://www.nwdesigns.com/Products/MCUNutshell.htm Am 03.05.2011 15:55, schrieb Florian Rist: > Hello, > not directly EMC related, but maybe you have some advice for me: > > I'm looking for a way to simulate a 5axes milling process. I'd like to > create an animation so show how the material is removed form the stock. > I don't necessarily need a ready to use program, a framework the allows > this kind of voxel based volumetric simulations would be fine, too. Any > ideas? > > See you > Flo > > -- > WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software > The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network > management toolset available today. Delivers lowest initial > acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > -- WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network management toolset available today. Delivers lowest initial acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution. http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] [OT] CAM Simulation?
Hi Dave > For frameworks depends what level, emc itself has vismach for the > machine but not the cutting Ah, OK. I do need a visualisation of the cutting process, but a visualisation of the machine would be nice on our simple 3-axis mill. > Look at what Anders Wallin is doing with opencamlib > http://www.anderswallin.net/ Thanks for the link. Look good: http://code.google.com/p/opencamlib/ See you Flo -- WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network management toolset available today. Delivers lowest initial acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution. http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] [OT] CAM Simulation?
did you look at vismach under sim The 'vismach' directory contains a number of configurations that display a 3D model of the simulated machine. not really sure what you might be looking for -- WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network management toolset available today. Delivers lowest initial acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution. http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] [OT] CAM Simulation?
For frameworks depends what level, emc itself has vismach for the machine but not the cutting Look at what Anders Wallin is doing with opencamlib http://www.anderswallin.net/ Dave Caroline -- WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network management toolset available today. Delivers lowest initial acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution. http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] [OT] CAM Simulation?
Hallo > Mechsoft Visual Mill will do what you want but it is not free, but works > well. Ah. Really? I can import my one G-Code and simulate it? Thanks for the tip, I'll see what VisualMill can do. If I remember correctly it's not that expensive. Does anyone know a suitable framework/library for writing my own simulation/visualization program? See you Florian -- WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network management toolset available today. Delivers lowest initial acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution. http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] [OT] CAM Simulation?
Mechsoft Visual Mill will do what you want but it is not free, but works well. -Original Message- From: Florian Rist [mailto:fr...@fs.tum.de] Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 6:56 AM To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net >> "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" Subject: [Emc-users] [OT] CAM Simulation? Hello, not directly EMC related, but maybe you have some advice for me: I'm looking for a way to simulate a 5axes milling process. I'd like to create an animation so show how the material is removed form the stock. I don't necessarily need a ready to use program, a framework the allows this kind of voxel based volumetric simulations would be fine, too. Any ideas? See you Flo -- WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network management toolset available today. Delivers lowest initial acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution. http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6091 (20110503) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com -- WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network management toolset available today. Delivers lowest initial acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution. http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] [OT] CAM Simulation?
Hello, not directly EMC related, but maybe you have some advice for me: I'm looking for a way to simulate a 5axes milling process. I'd like to create an animation so show how the material is removed form the stock. I don't necessarily need a ready to use program, a framework the allows this kind of voxel based volumetric simulations would be fine, too. Any ideas? See you Flo -- WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network management toolset available today. Delivers lowest initial acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution. http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
