Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency
Here's a link of the process of setting up the BeagleBone from 7 years ago. And again as usual with a lot of these types of projects. Unfinished. Left hanging. https://machinekit.narkive.com/qsd3ZYMP/hal-vcp-controller-with-beaglebone-g reen-and-lcd-cape ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency
On 8/5/23 20:47, John Dammeyer wrote: Three different screens. The Manga screens were for the Replicape which was a 5 axis stepper driver module for 3D printers. One axis driver failed and support for the cape vanished. The two manga touch screens never worked well. I even sent the original back to demonstrate the problem. It was returned with the comment that nothing was wrong with it. Touch still didn't work in the corners so like a fool I bought the large Manga 2. It's really just a converted Cell Phone screen. And the SD systems small board, although it worked, was also discontinued. And some of the pins for the button and display made running LinuxCNC difficult with the cape. And CAN bus was impossible without rewiring the cape. The other problem with the BBB is the HDMI interface is for lower res screens because that was the standard at the time. The 800x480 HDMI is discontinued. https://www.adafruit.com/product/2261 Maybe this one would work. Anyway, the key word is discontinued...discontinued...discontinued. Modern electronics has a lifetime now often less than the development time for a solid product. Not like the milling machine you buy and expect to use for 20 years. John After you throw away the junk electronics and rebuild the controller so it works. When dealing with a 6040, I learned that the school of hard knocks way. But now I have a decent machine. -Original Message- From: John Dammeyer [mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com] Sent: August 5, 2023 3:24 PM To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)' Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency Me too. A closer look at the fine print and selecting the correct button shows the actual CNC controller is $513 or $541 for 3 or 4 axis respectively. The MPG is priced separately at $96. And this is why a BBB with a cape that included a Break Out Board with a few relays etc. for under $100 would be quite the bargain. The question is then what sort of display would be good. And you still need some sort of MPG to go with it for also about $100. For $94 I can get, from amazon.ca a 7inch HDMI LCD (H) 1024x600 Monitor IPS Screen Capacitive Touch Display Supports Raspberry Pi Jetson Nano BeagleBone Black Banana Pi & Microsoft XBOX360, Sony PS4,Nintendo Switch And therein lies the problem. Creating something similar to the $500 Chinese CNC controllers with touch screen will ultimately cost in the same $500 range. But unless the MachineKit or LinuxCNC version is stable with a target life similar to the life of the machine tool no one will spend the energy and time to make that. The market isn't big enough to justify the work required. Which is why so many of the Beagle Capes are no longer available. Next week there's an new ESP32 with more bells and whistles. Won't do what the Beagle does but ... John -Original Message- From: Martin Dobbins [mailto:tu...@hotmail.com] Sent: August 5, 2023 11:44 AM To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency It makes me wonder which operating system they put on that Chinese controller, and what motion control system. Martin From: John Dammeyer Sent: Friday, August 4, 2023 7:41 PM To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)' Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency My biggest issue with the Xylotex BBB Cape for CNC was that the logic for ESTOP was inverted. ESTOP was a N/O switch so if a wire was broken you wouldn't find out until you tried to save a body part from being injured with the ESTOP. ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users Cheers, Gene Heskett. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/> ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency
Yeah I caught that after I posted. I think I corrected that in the next posting. Thanks for bringing that to everyone's attention though. So easy nowadays to get snagged. Must be vigilent. John > -Original Message- > From: Groups [mailto:gro...@homanndesigns.com] > Sent: August 6, 2023 6:43 PM > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency > > Hi John, > Not really. That $100 is for the pendant only. The 3 axis controller is around > $550. > > A lot of AliExpress sellers now add multiple products to a single listing. > They > have a relatively cheap item there that makes the item you are after appear > cheap. > > That said you can get a similar 2 axis Chinese controller for about 1/3 that > price. > > Cheers > > Peter Homann - (from my mobile) > http://www.homanndesigns.com > > > On 6 Aug 2023, at 5:17 am, gene heskett wrote: > > > > ?On 8/5/23 14:45, Martin Dobbins wrote: > >> It makes me wonder which operating system they put on that Chinese > controller, and what motion control system. > >> Martin > >> > >> From: John Dammeyer > >> Sent: Friday, August 4, 2023 7:41 PM > >> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)' us...@lists.sourceforge.net> > >> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency > >> My biggest issue with the Xylotex BBB Cape for CNC was that the logic for > ESTOP was inverted. ESTOP was a N/O switch so if a wire was broken you > wouldn't find out until you tried to save a body part from being injured with > the ESTOP. > >> But back when a BBB was around $50 and a cape around $25 you had a 3 > axis system. Obviously a break out board of some sort was needed but that's > true for MESA or any other type of interface just like motors and switches > are needed too. > >> The nice thing about these small systems with a small HDMI screen is that > they don't overwhelm the space taken by a small lathe like a 7x12 or Unimat > DB200. I don't want a full size screen, mouse and keyboard plus a PC clone > for my DB-200 which looks a lot like this one. > >> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd. > it%2F83lxxjam0yj71.jpg&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cdec28113c0d745ae7e5d08db > 954d6546%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C6382679318 > 83275463%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoi > V2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=l0 > 4m1ookT8TmrWx%2F8azPP2X2qqAyxgSJbezUEI7EZJM%3D&reserved=0 ps://i.redd.it/83lxxjam0yj71.jpg> > >> For $100 Cdn free shipping I can get a Chinese Controller. > >> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww. > aliexpress.com%2Fitem%2F1005005195839565.html&data=05%7C01%7C%7C > dec28113c0d745ae7e5d08db954d6546%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaa > a%7C1%7C0%7C638267931883275463%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWI > joiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3 > 000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=O3eRaBFYdAVqxPxwCTL9JCUiFaYmhWTcGtwJKa%2 > BJFT4%3D&reserved=0<https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100500519583956 > 5.html> > >> But I'd rather have a Linux based system or my ELS. > >> John > >>> -Original Message- > >>> From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com] > >>> Sent: August 4, 2023 5:20 PM > >>> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) > >>> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency > >>> > >>> I think the BBB was popular because of the twp PRUs. These are > >>> programmable processors that are separate from the CPU. So you can > get > >>> very accurate real-time pulses out even with poor latency under Linux. > >>> > >>> However, this does require programming the PRUs.Machinekit had a > HAL > >>> unit for the PRUs. I don?t know if LinuxCNC has this or not. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>> On Aug 4, 2023, at 11:18 AM, andy pugh > wrote: > >>>> > >>>> On Fri, 4 Aug 2023 at 01:48, alanmthomason--- via Emc-users > >>>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> Hi There.I'm trying to work through setting up linuxcnc on a > beaglebone > >>>>> black. I've run the latency-test, with results that are not looking > >>>>> good.has anyone else run this test with a Beaglebone black? Is there > any > >>>>> way to improve results. > >>>> > >&g
Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency
Hi John, Not really. That $100 is for the pendant only. The 3 axis controller is around $550. A lot of AliExpress sellers now add multiple products to a single listing. They have a relatively cheap item there that makes the item you are after appear cheap. That said you can get a similar 2 axis Chinese controller for about 1/3 that price. Cheers Peter Homann - (from my mobile) http://www.homanndesigns.com > On 6 Aug 2023, at 5:17 am, gene heskett wrote: > > On 8/5/23 14:45, Martin Dobbins wrote: >> It makes me wonder which operating system they put on that Chinese >> controller, and what motion control system. >> Martin >> >> From: John Dammeyer >> Sent: Friday, August 4, 2023 7:41 PM >> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)' >> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency >> My biggest issue with the Xylotex BBB Cape for CNC was that the logic for >> ESTOP was inverted. ESTOP was a N/O switch so if a wire was broken you >> wouldn't find out until you tried to save a body part from being injured >> with the ESTOP. >> But back when a BBB was around $50 and a cape around $25 you had a 3 axis >> system. Obviously a break out board of some sort was needed but that's true >> for MESA or any other type of interface just like motors and switches are >> needed too. >> The nice thing about these small systems with a small HDMI screen is that >> they don't overwhelm the space taken by a small lathe like a 7x12 or Unimat >> DB200. I don't want a full size screen, mouse and keyboard plus a PC clone >> for my DB-200 which looks a lot like this one. >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2F83lxxjam0yj71.jpg&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cdec28113c0d745ae7e5d08db954d6546%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C638267931883275463%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=l04m1ookT8TmrWx%2F8azPP2X2qqAyxgSJbezUEI7EZJM%3D&reserved=0<https://i.redd.it/83lxxjam0yj71.jpg> >> For $100 Cdn free shipping I can get a Chinese Controller. >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.aliexpress.com%2Fitem%2F1005005195839565.html&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cdec28113c0d745ae7e5d08db954d6546%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C638267931883275463%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=O3eRaBFYdAVqxPxwCTL9JCUiFaYmhWTcGtwJKa%2BJFT4%3D&reserved=0<https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005195839565.html> >> But I'd rather have a Linux based system or my ELS. >> John >>> -Original Message- >>> From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com] >>> Sent: August 4, 2023 5:20 PM >>> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) >>> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency >>> >>> I think the BBB was popular because of the twp PRUs. These are >>> programmable processors that are separate from the CPU. So you can get >>> very accurate real-time pulses out even with poor latency under Linux. >>> >>> However, this does require programming the PRUs.Machinekit had a HAL >>> unit for the PRUs. I don�t know if LinuxCNC has this or not. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Aug 4, 2023, at 11:18 AM, andy pugh wrote: >>>> >>>> On Fri, 4 Aug 2023 at 01:48, alanmthomason--- via Emc-users >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi There.I'm trying to work through setting up linuxcnc on a beaglebone >>>>> black. I've run the latency-test, with results that are not looking >>>>> good.has anyone else run this test with a Beaglebone black? Is there any >>>>> way to improve results. >>>> >>>> I think that when Machinekit were fond of the Beaglebone they tended >>>> to run it headless. I can't recall whether that was just poor graphics >>>> performance in general, or whether it was due to latency issues. >>>> >>>> You could try installing the (old) Machinekit image to see if the >>>> latency with that kernel is better. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> atp >>>> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is >>>> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and >>>> lunatics." >>>> � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912 >>>> >>>> >>>>
Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency
Here's a bit more info with respect to displays for the BBB. (Or Pi for that matter) The Backpack with Touch HDMI from Adafruit is 800x480 (out of stock and is now 800x600) https://www.adafruit.com/product/2407 On my Version the Beagle MachineKit main screen looks nice. http://www.autoartisans.com/beagle/800x480_Display.jpg But run MachineKit and it's clear that the screen really is too small for the AXIS user interface. http://www.autoartisans.com/beagle/800x480_MachineKit.jpg So to use this with MachineKit requires a new user interface design and that means something like the PSNG screen for probing is also not usable without a complete redesign. I did show the phot with the two MANGA screens. They came from Norway, made in China. https://www.iagent.no/product/manga-screen-2-big/ The MANGA2 is a 1080P screen in size and if I could figure out how to boot to turn the display 90 degrees everything would should up but boy are things tiny... http://www.autoartisans.com/beagle/Manga2_MachineKit.jpg I forget the resolution of the MANGA 1 screen but again needs to be rotated and might also be too small. http://www.autoartisans.com/beagle/Manga1_MachineKit.jpg There is a version of the PSNG Probe screen for 1024x768 so I think that would have to be the minimum LCD display in at least 7" but likely better 10" for fat fingers http://www.autoartisans.com/beagle/Screenshot1024x768.png I'm pretty sure this was the latest HAL and INI files for this BBB. http://www.autoartisans.com/beagle/XylotexG3616.hal http://www.autoartisans.com/beagle/XylotexG3616.ini A 1280x800 10" display is available from Amazon.ca for $235 but no touch screen. https://www.amazon.ca/Eyoyo-Monitor-1280x800-Resolution-Security/dp/B072N2YGXN Or 1280x800 with touch screen for $169. https://www.amazon.ca/Raspberry-Inch-Touch-Screen-Touchscreen/dp/B0776VNW9C/ref=sr_1_10 No idea how good this is but if it did work with the Beagle or the PI4+MESA_7i92 it could be a nice small form factor CNC system. Upside with RPI up to date LinuxCNC. Downside with Beagle is old MachineKit but hardware is already here for a small lathe. All of this is relative turnkey and doesn't involve writing a brand new CNC program on an ESP32. John ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency
Oh yeah. Happier with LinuxCNC than MACH3 although I must admit MACH3 was an easier entry point and with a few lines of basic code and a clip lead on the tool bit had the zero probing working well. Now for LinuxCNC I took a stab at using a modified m6remap.ngc in the PSNG screen. https://forum.linuxcnc.org/49-basic-configuration/29187-work-with-probe?start=610#275121 This posting here shows how I got around the issue so I could keep testing the code. https://forum.linuxcnc.org/49-basic-configuration/29187-work-with-probe?start=620#275187 And although the one on the left was done with a too high feed rate for a 0.125" cutter the one on the right is much better. So yes, I'm using LinuxCNC https://forum.linuxcnc.org/49-basic-configuration/29187-work-with-probe?start=650#276929 Even have power tapping working. First try into wood instead of metal but I've since done metal. https://youtu.be/l_GkLj942jw John > -Original Message- > From: Sam Sokolik [mailto:samco...@gmail.com] > Sent: August 5, 2023 7:06 PM > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency > > OMG - I keep forgetting you are the ELS guy! I am glad you are here. And > trying linuxcnc.. > > You know how much works goes into these things! I have dabbled a bit in > some Arduino and such.. It is painful for me because ever time I seem to > have to relearn it. > > Granted I have a pretty long history with linuxcnc (I really got into it at > the start of emc2 and HAL) but for me it really is a swiss army knife. I > see problems that have a linuxcnc solutions :) > > Just the HAL part is so powerful and flexible.. > > sam > > > On Sat, Aug 5, 2023 at 8:57�PM John Dammeyer > wrote: > > > Sam, > > You are my hero when it comes to this sort of thing. I wanted to link one > > of your RPI youtube videos but for some reason Youtube wasn't helping > with > > my searches. > > > > I too have written CNC software, way back, Z80 Assembler for a laser > > cutter as a demo that the machine was capable of what the end customer > > wanted. At that point emc1 was just getting started. > > > > And my ELS, with reasonable threading using a 1PPR spindle sensor, has > > been stable for many years and I will support it as long as I possibly > > can. And of course it's open source.Although it's been on the back > > burner for a while, since April 2020, I used a MicroChip Automotive > > Networking Board that takes a PIM module (PIC32) and created and > interface > > board to translate 3.3V signals to 5V and put them onto the correct pins of > > a PIC18F4685. This photo is too large to attach so here's a link. > > > > http://www.autoartisans.com/ELS/AdaptorBoard-7.jpg > > > > I then created a project and new init code for a PIC32 instead of the > > PIC18 and with actually very little effort had the 8 bit code running on > > the 32 bit processor including the micro-stepping 3A 50V stepper motor > > driver. The plan, when I get to it and stop breaking touch probes on my > > mill, is a small add on board that plugs into the 40 pin PIC18 socket. The > > board will also have an extra 8 pin connector for a differential quadrature > > encoder and a bit of extra I/O for 0-10V output for spindle VFD. But the > > basic ELS behaviour won't change that much. > > > > But with a 32 bit processor the potential of creating a better trajectory > > planner so that an operator can hand turn the lathe spindle back and forth > > and have the Z axis track might be something I will attempt. With that > > experience behind me I'd love to see someone do it quickly on a different > > 32 bit processor. > > > > At the moment I'm also playing with a dspic33ch128mp508_pim mounted > on an > > Explorer 16 motherboard.It's a dual core 16 bit processor and I've > > taken the basic demo application and modified it to read a quadrature > > encoder. When I select the S3 button it shows encoder displacement in > > degrees to the nearest 100th and velocity in steps every 50mS. > > > > dsPIC33CH128MP508 Demo PIM Version 0.02a > > S3:Main only > > S6:Main+Second > > >q > > Counter = 0 > > Control = 0x8000 > > IOControl= 0x0004 > > Status = 0x0002 > > Position Counter = 0 > > Velocity Counter = 0 > > Position Hold= 0 > > >? > > q : Show QEI Register values > > rx(=x) : Report or Set memory location using hex address=data > > v : Print Version and Build info > > >v > > dsPI
Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency
OMG - I keep forgetting you are the ELS guy! I am glad you are here. And trying linuxcnc.. You know how much works goes into these things! I have dabbled a bit in some Arduino and such.. It is painful for me because ever time I seem to have to relearn it. Granted I have a pretty long history with linuxcnc (I really got into it at the start of emc2 and HAL) but for me it really is a swiss army knife. I see problems that have a linuxcnc solutions :) Just the HAL part is so powerful and flexible.. sam On Sat, Aug 5, 2023 at 8:57 PM John Dammeyer wrote: > Sam, > You are my hero when it comes to this sort of thing. I wanted to link one > of your RPI youtube videos but for some reason Youtube wasn't helping with > my searches. > > I too have written CNC software, way back, Z80 Assembler for a laser > cutter as a demo that the machine was capable of what the end customer > wanted. At that point emc1 was just getting started. > > And my ELS, with reasonable threading using a 1PPR spindle sensor, has > been stable for many years and I will support it as long as I possibly > can. And of course it's open source.Although it's been on the back > burner for a while, since April 2020, I used a MicroChip Automotive > Networking Board that takes a PIM module (PIC32) and created and interface > board to translate 3.3V signals to 5V and put them onto the correct pins of > a PIC18F4685. This photo is too large to attach so here's a link. > > http://www.autoartisans.com/ELS/AdaptorBoard-7.jpg > > I then created a project and new init code for a PIC32 instead of the > PIC18 and with actually very little effort had the 8 bit code running on > the 32 bit processor including the micro-stepping 3A 50V stepper motor > driver. The plan, when I get to it and stop breaking touch probes on my > mill, is a small add on board that plugs into the 40 pin PIC18 socket. The > board will also have an extra 8 pin connector for a differential quadrature > encoder and a bit of extra I/O for 0-10V output for spindle VFD. But the > basic ELS behaviour won't change that much. > > But with a 32 bit processor the potential of creating a better trajectory > planner so that an operator can hand turn the lathe spindle back and forth > and have the Z axis track might be something I will attempt. With that > experience behind me I'd love to see someone do it quickly on a different > 32 bit processor. > > At the moment I'm also playing with a dspic33ch128mp508_pim mounted on an > Explorer 16 motherboard.It's a dual core 16 bit processor and I've > taken the basic demo application and modified it to read a quadrature > encoder. When I select the S3 button it shows encoder displacement in > degrees to the nearest 100th and velocity in steps every 50mS. > > dsPIC33CH128MP508 Demo PIM Version 0.02a > S3:Main only > S6:Main+Second > >q > Counter = 0 > Control = 0x8000 > IOControl= 0x0004 > Status = 0x0002 > Position Counter = 0 > Velocity Counter = 0 > Position Hold= 0 > >? > q : Show QEI Register values > rx(=x) : Report or Set memory location using hex address=data > v : Print Version and Build info > >v > dsPIC33CH128MP508 Demo PIM Version 0.02a > > I also have a TI Launchpad with dual core and QEI support. It's also 16 > bit but has some pretty impressive math capabilities for doing real time > trajectory planning. > > But each of these projects all suffer from the same issue (as would an > ESP32 module). One still has to build a board, assemble it, test it and > mount it into a box. The Beagle with a cape and Pi4 with a MESA are just > so much easier. > > Even just the adaptor board for my ELS and the software was a few months > of hobby time spent. Doing a full trajectory planner is a huge undertaking. > > John > > > -Original Message- > > From: Sam Sokolik [mailto:samco...@gmail.com] > > Sent: August 5, 2023 5:51 PM > > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) > > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency > > > > I agree..It is so easy isn't it? Just use a ESP32! > > > > I tried to write a machine controller when I was in my 20's... This was > > before I found turbocnc (which sucked) and linuxcnc. (emc1) > > > > I also helped test the trajectory planner improvements made when Rob > > added > > n-segment read-ahead. It took months to make something viable that also > > worked as an actual cnc (tool offsets, velocity/acc constraints, cnc > > stuff...) > > > > Someone that comes in and says - you can easily use x and y to make a > great > > cnc c
Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency
Sam, You are my hero when it comes to this sort of thing. I wanted to link one of your RPI youtube videos but for some reason Youtube wasn't helping with my searches. I too have written CNC software, way back, Z80 Assembler for a laser cutter as a demo that the machine was capable of what the end customer wanted. At that point emc1 was just getting started. And my ELS, with reasonable threading using a 1PPR spindle sensor, has been stable for many years and I will support it as long as I possibly can. And of course it's open source.Although it's been on the back burner for a while, since April 2020, I used a MicroChip Automotive Networking Board that takes a PIM module (PIC32) and created and interface board to translate 3.3V signals to 5V and put them onto the correct pins of a PIC18F4685. This photo is too large to attach so here's a link. http://www.autoartisans.com/ELS/AdaptorBoard-7.jpg I then created a project and new init code for a PIC32 instead of the PIC18 and with actually very little effort had the 8 bit code running on the 32 bit processor including the micro-stepping 3A 50V stepper motor driver. The plan, when I get to it and stop breaking touch probes on my mill, is a small add on board that plugs into the 40 pin PIC18 socket. The board will also have an extra 8 pin connector for a differential quadrature encoder and a bit of extra I/O for 0-10V output for spindle VFD. But the basic ELS behaviour won't change that much. But with a 32 bit processor the potential of creating a better trajectory planner so that an operator can hand turn the lathe spindle back and forth and have the Z axis track might be something I will attempt. With that experience behind me I'd love to see someone do it quickly on a different 32 bit processor. At the moment I'm also playing with a dspic33ch128mp508_pim mounted on an Explorer 16 motherboard.It's a dual core 16 bit processor and I've taken the basic demo application and modified it to read a quadrature encoder. When I select the S3 button it shows encoder displacement in degrees to the nearest 100th and velocity in steps every 50mS. dsPIC33CH128MP508 Demo PIM Version 0.02a S3:Main only S6:Main+Second >q Counter = 0 Control = 0x8000 IOControl= 0x0004 Status = 0x0002 Position Counter = 0 Velocity Counter = 0 Position Hold= 0 >? q : Show QEI Register values rx(=x) : Report or Set memory location using hex address=data v : Print Version and Build info >v dsPIC33CH128MP508 Demo PIM Version 0.02a I also have a TI Launchpad with dual core and QEI support. It's also 16 bit but has some pretty impressive math capabilities for doing real time trajectory planning. But each of these projects all suffer from the same issue (as would an ESP32 module). One still has to build a board, assemble it, test it and mount it into a box. The Beagle with a cape and Pi4 with a MESA are just so much easier. Even just the adaptor board for my ELS and the software was a few months of hobby time spent. Doing a full trajectory planner is a huge undertaking. John > -Original Message- > From: Sam Sokolik [mailto:samco...@gmail.com] > Sent: August 5, 2023 5:51 PM > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency > > I agree..It is so easy isn't it? Just use a ESP32! > > I tried to write a machine controller when I was in my 20's... This was > before I found turbocnc (which sucked) and linuxcnc. (emc1) > > I also helped test the trajectory planner improvements made when Rob > added > n-segment read-ahead. It took months to make something viable that also > worked as an actual cnc (tool offsets, velocity/acc constraints, cnc > stuff...) > > Someone that comes in and says - you can easily use x and y to make a great > cnc controller are quite naive... The grbl controller that every one touts > as a great solution is so basic it is scary.. works great for a basic 3 > axis mill - but that is it. > > I have actually been using a rpi4 and mesa to run an actual mill to machine > actual stuff. It works very well - no issues... > > It does some amazing stuff like... (and is an actual cnc controller that > takes actual gcode..) Am I getting my point across? > > https://www.youtube.com/shorts/23bEsKMNJH0 > > sam > > > > On Sat, Aug 5, 2023 at 7:30�PM John Dammeyer > wrote: > > > Chris, > > I must admit I had a bit of a chuckle when I read your answer. It's so > > easy to just do this or use that or add these and then you are good to go. > > > > If it's that easy I expect you'll have that tablet with the wifi > > connection to the ESP32 and be executing G-Code by the end of Aug
Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency
As I said, this is what I did. It is not a machine tool but a walking dog-robot. The human interface can run on my iPhone. Today we have things like $4 micro controllers (like the RP2020) that can run an RTOS. It makes sense to use them as they are more capable than the IBM PC was when LCNC was new. Would I ever do this for a machine tool? No. For me a machine tool is a tool. I use it to make stuff. > On Aug 5, 2023, at 5:26 PM, John Dammeyer wrote: > > Chris, > I must admit I had a bit of a chuckle when I read your answer. It's so easy > to just do this or use that or add these and then you are good to go. ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency
I agree..It is so easy isn't it? Just use a ESP32! I tried to write a machine controller when I was in my 20's... This was before I found turbocnc (which sucked) and linuxcnc. (emc1) I also helped test the trajectory planner improvements made when Rob added n-segment read-ahead. It took months to make something viable that also worked as an actual cnc (tool offsets, velocity/acc constraints, cnc stuff...) Someone that comes in and says - you can easily use x and y to make a great cnc controller are quite naive... The grbl controller that every one touts as a great solution is so basic it is scary.. works great for a basic 3 axis mill - but that is it. I have actually been using a rpi4 and mesa to run an actual mill to machine actual stuff. It works very well - no issues... It does some amazing stuff like... (and is an actual cnc controller that takes actual gcode..) Am I getting my point across? https://www.youtube.com/shorts/23bEsKMNJH0 sam On Sat, Aug 5, 2023 at 7:30 PM John Dammeyer wrote: > Chris, > I must admit I had a bit of a chuckle when I read your answer. It's so > easy to just do this or use that or add these and then you are good to go. > > If it's that easy I expect you'll have that tablet with the wifi > connection to the ESP32 and be executing G-Code by the end of August right? > > Other than wiring up motors and all the mechanicals, which has to be done > for any CNC installation the time to get the CNC running was even less time > than from now until the end of August for me. And I likely would have been > using this were it not for the inverted ESTOP. > https://youtu.be/9GF709ZfLRQ > Instead I went the PC route and did a dual boot between LinuxCNC and > WIN-XP for MACH3. After that I bought the MESA 7i92H after also mucking > around with my USB SmoothStepper (MACH3) from my CNC router.I decided > Linux had a better future than WIN-XP so although I still run MACH3 on the > CNC router the mill has LinuxCNC. > > On the workbench I muck around with a Pi4 and MESA 7i92H. Go onto you > tube and search Raspberry Pi and LinuxCNC and there are lots. > Again one like this is much faster to set up than your suggestion and not > any more expensive. > https://youtu.be/qL530kJUmII > > I do look forward to your progress on that novel idea of a tablet, ESP32, > RTOS and all the code to deal with trajectory planning. > Keep us informed. Maybe some videos of the intermediate steps. > Especially since as you imply it's so easy to go that route. > > It would be interesting if you could do it for less than > https://youtu.be/X-DY6iL6NcI > > John > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com] > > Sent: August 5, 2023 4:02 PM > > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) > > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency > > > > Why start with a BBB/Pi4 and then add a screen and so on. > > > > A better starting place would be a low-cost Android tablet. Perhaps > like this > > one. For $120 you get the CPU (that runs Linux), a touch screen and > WiFi. > > What is needed is a way to connect it to a machine tool. > > https://www.bestbuy.com/site/samsung-galaxy-tab-a7-lite-8-7-32gb-with- > > wi-fi-dark-gray/6464584.p?skuId=6464584? > > Samsung Galaxy Tab A7 Lite 8.7" 32GB with Wi-Fi Dark Gray SM- > > T220NZAAXAR > > bestbuy.com > > > > I would use something like a small 32-bit micro controller to do the > real-time > > pulses and switch monitoring. If you would choose an ESP32 then the > > interface to the tablet is wireless. But you could use USB as both > devices > > have USB built-in. USB has a built-in asocronus mode where data moves in > > strict real-time. But this might not be needed if 100% of the RT loops > are > > onthe microcontroller. > > > > The ESP32 is a dual-CPU, 32-bit device with more then enough computer > > power to run a CNC controller. I would 100%, for sure run an RTOS > > (FreeRTOS or Mbed) on the ESP32. The tablet is just the user interface > and > > �MPG�. > > > > I am currently using ESP32 to generate PWM control for a 12-axis robot > and > > I�m getting sub microsecond pulse accuracy which is more then my > > application needs. It is very fast and written 100% in Python. > > > > If the user already had an Android tablet or wanted to buy a used tablet > you > > really could under cut the cost of a $500 Chinese device. > > > > LCNC was written to take advantage of �cheap� community hardware. This > > is when a basic 16-bit PC would sell for �only� about $3,500. Today�s > > commodity hardware is cal
Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency
Three different screens. The Manga screens were for the Replicape which was a 5 axis stepper driver module for 3D printers. One axis driver failed and support for the cape vanished. The two manga touch screens never worked well. I even sent the original back to demonstrate the problem. It was returned with the comment that nothing was wrong with it. Touch still didn't work in the corners so like a fool I bought the large Manga 2. It's really just a converted Cell Phone screen. And the SD systems small board, although it worked, was also discontinued. And some of the pins for the button and display made running LinuxCNC difficult with the cape. And CAN bus was impossible without rewiring the cape. The other problem with the BBB is the HDMI interface is for lower res screens because that was the standard at the time. The 800x480 HDMI is discontinued. https://www.adafruit.com/product/2261 Maybe this one would work. Anyway, the key word is discontinued...discontinued...discontinued. Modern electronics has a lifetime now often less than the development time for a solid product. Not like the milling machine you buy and expect to use for 20 years. John > -Original Message- > From: John Dammeyer [mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com] > Sent: August 5, 2023 3:24 PM > To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)' > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency > > Me too. A closer look at the fine print and selecting the correct button shows > the actual CNC controller is $513 or $541 for 3 or 4 axis respectively. The MPG > is priced separately at $96. > > And this is why a BBB with a cape that included a Break Out Board with a few > relays etc. for under $100 would be quite the bargain. The question is then > what sort of display would be good. And you still need some sort of MPG to > go with it for also about $100. > > For $94 I can get, from amazon.ca a 7inch HDMI LCD (H) 1024x600 Monitor > IPS Screen Capacitive Touch Display Supports Raspberry Pi Jetson Nano > BeagleBone Black Banana Pi & Microsoft XBOX360, Sony PS4,Nintendo Switch > > And therein lies the problem. Creating something similar to the $500 Chinese > CNC controllers with touch screen will ultimately cost in the same $500 range. > But unless the MachineKit or LinuxCNC version is stable with a target life > similar to the life of the machine tool no one will spend the energy and time > to make that. > > The market isn't big enough to justify the work required. Which is why so > many of the Beagle Capes are no longer available. Next week there's an new > ESP32 with more bells and whistles. Won't do what the Beagle does but ... > > John > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Martin Dobbins [mailto:tu...@hotmail.com] > > Sent: August 5, 2023 11:44 AM > > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) > > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency > > > > It makes me wonder which operating system they put on that Chinese > > controller, and what motion control system. > > > > Martin > > > > ________ > > From: John Dammeyer > > Sent: Friday, August 4, 2023 7:41 PM > > To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)' > us...@lists.sourceforge.net> > > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency > > > > My biggest issue with the Xylotex BBB Cape for CNC was that the logic for > > ESTOP was inverted. ESTOP was a N/O switch so if a wire was broken you > > wouldn't find out until you tried to save a body part from being injured with > > the ESTOP. > > > > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency
I've attached a photo of one option for the Beagle that I was setting up for my Lathe. The down side is the 800x480 touch screen from Adafruit. Although it's HDMI and has USB for the touch screen I don't think it's made anymore. So that makes writing software for that size screen kind of a waste of time. The parts are: BBB 2GB Xylotex (not made anymore) Proto board with level translator for quadrature encoder for lathe spindle $4 Breakout Board through AliExpress. I've reverse engineered this board and created a schematic. 800x480 LCD Touch Screen. I'll follow up this with another photo of some of the other also discontinued touch screens. John > -Original Message- > From: John Dammeyer [mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com] > Sent: August 5, 2023 3:24 PM > To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)' > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency > > Me too. A closer look at the fine print and selecting the correct button shows > the actual CNC controller is $513 or $541 for 3 or 4 axis respectively. The MPG > is priced separately at $96. > > And this is why a BBB with a cape that included a Break Out Board with a few > relays etc. for under $100 would be quite the bargain. The question is then > what sort of display would be good. And you still need some sort of MPG to > go with it for also about $100. > > For $94 I can get, from amazon.ca a 7inch HDMI LCD (H) 1024x600 Monitor > IPS Screen Capacitive Touch Display Supports Raspberry Pi Jetson Nano > BeagleBone Black Banana Pi & Microsoft XBOX360, Sony PS4,Nintendo Switch > > And therein lies the problem. Creating something similar to the $500 Chinese > CNC controllers with touch screen will ultimately cost in the same $500 range. > But unless the MachineKit or LinuxCNC version is stable with a target life > similar to the life of the machine tool no one will spend the energy and time > to make that. > > The market isn't big enough to justify the work required. Which is why so > many of the Beagle Capes are no longer available. Next week there's an new > ESP32 with more bells and whistles. Won't do what the Beagle does but ... > > John > > > > -Original Message----- > > From: Martin Dobbins [mailto:tu...@hotmail.com] > > Sent: August 5, 2023 11:44 AM > > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) > > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency > > > > It makes me wonder which operating system they put on that Chinese > > controller, and what motion control system. > > > > Martin > > > > > > From: John Dammeyer > > Sent: Friday, August 4, 2023 7:41 PM > > To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)' > us...@lists.sourceforge.net> > > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency > > > > My biggest issue with the Xylotex BBB Cape for CNC was that the logic for > > ESTOP was inverted. ESTOP was a N/O switch so if a wire was broken you > > wouldn't find out until you tried to save a body part from being injured with > > the ESTOP. > > > > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency
Chris, I must admit I had a bit of a chuckle when I read your answer. It's so easy to just do this or use that or add these and then you are good to go. If it's that easy I expect you'll have that tablet with the wifi connection to the ESP32 and be executing G-Code by the end of August right? Other than wiring up motors and all the mechanicals, which has to be done for any CNC installation the time to get the CNC running was even less time than from now until the end of August for me. And I likely would have been using this were it not for the inverted ESTOP. https://youtu.be/9GF709ZfLRQ Instead I went the PC route and did a dual boot between LinuxCNC and WIN-XP for MACH3. After that I bought the MESA 7i92H after also mucking around with my USB SmoothStepper (MACH3) from my CNC router.I decided Linux had a better future than WIN-XP so although I still run MACH3 on the CNC router the mill has LinuxCNC. On the workbench I muck around with a Pi4 and MESA 7i92H. Go onto you tube and search Raspberry Pi and LinuxCNC and there are lots. Again one like this is much faster to set up than your suggestion and not any more expensive. https://youtu.be/qL530kJUmII I do look forward to your progress on that novel idea of a tablet, ESP32, RTOS and all the code to deal with trajectory planning. Keep us informed. Maybe some videos of the intermediate steps. Especially since as you imply it's so easy to go that route. It would be interesting if you could do it for less than https://youtu.be/X-DY6iL6NcI John > -Original Message- > From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com] > Sent: August 5, 2023 4:02 PM > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency > > Why start with a BBB/Pi4 and then add a screen and so on. > > A better starting place would be a low-cost Android tablet. Perhaps like this > one. For $120 you get the CPU (that runs Linux), a touch screen and WiFi. > What is needed is a way to connect it to a machine tool. > https://www.bestbuy.com/site/samsung-galaxy-tab-a7-lite-8-7-32gb-with- > wi-fi-dark-gray/6464584.p?skuId=6464584? > Samsung Galaxy Tab A7 Lite 8.7" 32GB with Wi-Fi Dark Gray SM- > T220NZAAXAR > bestbuy.com > > I would use something like a small 32-bit micro controller to do the > real-time > pulses and switch monitoring. If you would choose an ESP32 then the > interface to the tablet is wireless. But you could use USB as both devices > have USB built-in. USB has a built-in asocronus mode where data moves in > strict real-time. But this might not be needed if 100% of the RT loops are > onthe microcontroller. > > The ESP32 is a dual-CPU, 32-bit device with more then enough computer > power to run a CNC controller. I would 100%, for sure run an RTOS > (FreeRTOS or Mbed) on the ESP32. The tablet is just the user interface and > �MPG�. > > I am currently using ESP32 to generate PWM control for a 12-axis robot and > I�m getting sub microsecond pulse accuracy which is more then my > application needs. It is very fast and written 100% in Python. > > If the user already had an Android tablet or wanted to buy a used tablet you > really could under cut the cost of a $500 Chinese device. > > LCNC was written to take advantage of �cheap� community hardware. This > is when a basic 16-bit PC would sell for �only� about $3,500. Today�s > commodity hardware is called a �cell phone� and they are MUCH more > powerful then the old PC was. > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 2023, at 3:23 PM, John Dammeyer > wrote: > > > > Me too. A closer look at the fine print and selecting the correct button > shows the actual CNC controller is $513 or $541 for 3 or 4 axis respectively. > The MPG is priced separately at $96. > > > > And this is why a BBB with a cape that included a Break Out Board with a > few relays etc. for under $100 would be quite the bargain. The question is > then what sort of display would be good. And you still need some sort of > MPG to go with it for also about $100. > > > > For $94 I can get, from amazon.ca a 7inch HDMI LCD (H) 1024x600 Monitor > IPS Screen Capacitive Touch Display Supports Raspberry Pi Jetson Nano > BeagleBone Black Banana Pi & Microsoft XBOX360, Sony PS4,Nintendo Switch > > > > And therein lies the problem. Creating something similar to the $500 > Chinese CNC controllers with touch screen will ultimately cost in the same > $500 range. But unless the MachineKit or LinuxCNC version is stable with a > target life similar to the life of the machine tool no one will spend the > energy > and time to make that. > > > > The market isn't big enough to justify the work required. Which is why so >
Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency
Why start with a BBB/Pi4 and then add a screen and so on. A better starting place would be a low-cost Android tablet. Perhaps like this one. For $120 you get the CPU (that runs Linux), a touch screen and WiFi. What is needed is a way to connect it to a machine tool. https://www.bestbuy.com/site/samsung-galaxy-tab-a7-lite-8-7-32gb-with-wi-fi-dark-gray/6464584.p?skuId=6464584 Samsung Galaxy Tab A7 Lite 8.7" 32GB with Wi-Fi Dark Gray SM-T220NZAAXAR bestbuy.com I would use something like a small 32-bit micro controller to do the real-time pulses and switch monitoring. If you would choose an ESP32 then the interface to the tablet is wireless. But you could use USB as both devices have USB built-in. USB has a built-in asocronus mode where data moves in strict real-time. But this might not be needed if 100% of the RT loops are onthe microcontroller. The ESP32 is a dual-CPU, 32-bit device with more then enough computer power to run a CNC controller. I would 100%, for sure run an RTOS (FreeRTOS or Mbed) on the ESP32. The tablet is just the user interface and “MPG”. I am currently using ESP32 to generate PWM control for a 12-axis robot and I’m getting sub microsecond pulse accuracy which is more then my application needs. It is very fast and written 100% in Python. If the user already had an Android tablet or wanted to buy a used tablet you really could under cut the cost of a $500 Chinese device. LCNC was written to take advantage of “cheap” community hardware. This is when a basic 16-bit PC would sell for “only” about $3,500. Today’s commodity hardware is called a “cell phone” and they are MUCH more powerful then the old PC was. > On Aug 5, 2023, at 3:23 PM, John Dammeyer wrote: > > Me too. A closer look at the fine print and selecting the correct button > shows the actual CNC controller is $513 or $541 for 3 or 4 axis respectively. > The MPG is priced separately at $96. > > And this is why a BBB with a cape that included a Break Out Board with a few > relays etc. for under $100 would be quite the bargain. The question is then > what sort of display would be good. And you still need some sort of MPG to > go with it for also about $100. > > For $94 I can get, from amazon.ca a 7inch HDMI LCD (H) 1024x600 Monitor IPS > Screen Capacitive Touch Display Supports Raspberry Pi Jetson Nano BeagleBone > Black Banana Pi & Microsoft XBOX360, Sony PS4,Nintendo Switch > > And therein lies the problem. Creating something similar to the $500 Chinese > CNC controllers with touch screen will ultimately cost in the same $500 > range. But unless the MachineKit or LinuxCNC version is stable with a target > life similar to the life of the machine tool no one will spend the energy and > time to make that. > > The market isn't big enough to justify the work required. Which is why so > many of the Beagle Capes are no longer available. Next week there's an new > ESP32 with more bells and whistles. Won't do what the Beagle does but ... > > John > > >> -Original Message- >> From: Martin Dobbins [mailto:tu...@hotmail.com] >> Sent: August 5, 2023 11:44 AM >> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) >> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency >> >> It makes me wonder which operating system they put on that Chinese >> controller, and what motion control system. >> >> Martin >> >> ________________ >> From: John Dammeyer >> Sent: Friday, August 4, 2023 7:41 PM >> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)' > us...@lists.sourceforge.net> >> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency >> >> My biggest issue with the Xylotex BBB Cape for CNC was that the logic for >> ESTOP was inverted. ESTOP was a N/O switch so if a wire was broken you >> wouldn't find out until you tried to save a body part from being injured with >> the ESTOP. > > > > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency
Me too. A closer look at the fine print and selecting the correct button shows the actual CNC controller is $513 or $541 for 3 or 4 axis respectively. The MPG is priced separately at $96. And this is why a BBB with a cape that included a Break Out Board with a few relays etc. for under $100 would be quite the bargain. The question is then what sort of display would be good. And you still need some sort of MPG to go with it for also about $100. For $94 I can get, from amazon.ca a 7inch HDMI LCD (H) 1024x600 Monitor IPS Screen Capacitive Touch Display Supports Raspberry Pi Jetson Nano BeagleBone Black Banana Pi & Microsoft XBOX360, Sony PS4,Nintendo Switch And therein lies the problem. Creating something similar to the $500 Chinese CNC controllers with touch screen will ultimately cost in the same $500 range. But unless the MachineKit or LinuxCNC version is stable with a target life similar to the life of the machine tool no one will spend the energy and time to make that. The market isn't big enough to justify the work required. Which is why so many of the Beagle Capes are no longer available. Next week there's an new ESP32 with more bells and whistles. Won't do what the Beagle does but ... John > -Original Message- > From: Martin Dobbins [mailto:tu...@hotmail.com] > Sent: August 5, 2023 11:44 AM > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency > > It makes me wonder which operating system they put on that Chinese > controller, and what motion control system. > > Martin > > > From: John Dammeyer > Sent: Friday, August 4, 2023 7:41 PM > To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)' us...@lists.sourceforge.net> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency > > My biggest issue with the Xylotex BBB Cape for CNC was that the logic for > ESTOP was inverted. ESTOP was a N/O switch so if a wire was broken you > wouldn't find out until you tried to save a body part from being injured with > the ESTOP. ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency
On 8/5/23 15:16, gene heskett wrote: no, I didn't write this, someones email agent is broken when it attributes this message to me. On 8/5/23 14:45, Martin Dobbins wrote: It makes me wonder which operating system they put on that Chinese controller, and what motion control system. Martin From: John Dammeyer Sent: Friday, August 4, 2023 7:41 PM To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)' Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency My biggest issue with the Xylotex BBB Cape for CNC was that the logic for ESTOP was inverted. ESTOP was a N/O switch so if a wire was broken you wouldn't find out until you tried to save a body part from being injured with the ESTOP. But back when a BBB was around $50 and a cape around $25 you had a 3 axis system. Obviously a break out board of some sort was needed but that's true for MESA or any other type of interface just like motors and switches are needed too. The nice thing about these small systems with a small HDMI screen is that they don't overwhelm the space taken by a small lathe like a 7x12 or Unimat DB200. I don't want a full size screen, mouse and keyboard plus a PC clone for my DB-200 which looks a lot like this one. https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2F83lxxjam0yj71.jpg&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cdec28113c0d745ae7e5d08db954d6546%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C638267931883275463%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=l04m1ookT8TmrWx%2F8azPP2X2qqAyxgSJbezUEI7EZJM%3D&reserved=0<https://i.redd.it/83lxxjam0yj71.jpg> For $100 Cdn free shipping I can get a Chinese Controller. https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.aliexpress.com%2Fitem%2F1005005195839565.html&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cdec28113c0d745ae7e5d08db954d6546%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C638267931883275463%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=O3eRaBFYdAVqxPxwCTL9JCUiFaYmhWTcGtwJKa%2BJFT4%3D&reserved=0<https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005195839565.html> But I'd rather have a Linux based system or my ELS. John -Original Message- From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com] Sent: August 4, 2023 5:20 PM To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency I think the BBB was popular because of the twp PRUs. These are programmable processors that are separate from the CPU. So you can get very accurate real-time pulses out even with poor latency under Linux. However, this does require programming the PRUs. Machinekit had a HAL unit for the PRUs. I don�t know if LinuxCNC has this or not. On Aug 4, 2023, at 11:18 AM, andy pugh wrote: On Fri, 4 Aug 2023 at 01:48, alanmthomason--- via Emc-users wrote: Hi There.I'm trying to work through setting up linuxcnc on a beaglebone black. I've run the latency-test, with results that are not looking good.has anyone else run this test with a Beaglebone black? Is there any way to improve results. I think that when Machinekit were fond of the Beaglebone they tended to run it headless. I can't recall whether that was just poor graphics performance in general, or whether it was due to latency issues. You could try installing the (old) Machinekit image to see if the latency with that kernel is better. -- atp "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics." � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.sourceforge.net%2Flists%2Flistinfo%2Femc-users&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cdec28113c0d745ae7e5d08db954d6546%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C638267931883275463%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=qTWdux60ZVNVGu500hGv5nTpLIMlYDdL3Zs26yr6p%2Bc%3D&reserved=0<https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users> ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.sourceforge.net%2Flists%2Flistinfo%2Femc-users&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cdec28113c0d745ae7e5d08db954d6546%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C638267931883275463%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=qTWdux60ZVNVGu500hGv5nTpLIMlYDdL3Zs26yr6p%2Bc%3D&reserved=0<https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users> ___ Emc-
Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency
On 8/5/23 14:45, Martin Dobbins wrote: It makes me wonder which operating system they put on that Chinese controller, and what motion control system. Martin From: John Dammeyer Sent: Friday, August 4, 2023 7:41 PM To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)' Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency My biggest issue with the Xylotex BBB Cape for CNC was that the logic for ESTOP was inverted. ESTOP was a N/O switch so if a wire was broken you wouldn't find out until you tried to save a body part from being injured with the ESTOP. But back when a BBB was around $50 and a cape around $25 you had a 3 axis system. Obviously a break out board of some sort was needed but that's true for MESA or any other type of interface just like motors and switches are needed too. The nice thing about these small systems with a small HDMI screen is that they don't overwhelm the space taken by a small lathe like a 7x12 or Unimat DB200. I don't want a full size screen, mouse and keyboard plus a PC clone for my DB-200 which looks a lot like this one. https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2F83lxxjam0yj71.jpg&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cdec28113c0d745ae7e5d08db954d6546%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C638267931883275463%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=l04m1ookT8TmrWx%2F8azPP2X2qqAyxgSJbezUEI7EZJM%3D&reserved=0<https://i.redd.it/83lxxjam0yj71.jpg> For $100 Cdn free shipping I can get a Chinese Controller. https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.aliexpress.com%2Fitem%2F1005005195839565.html&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cdec28113c0d745ae7e5d08db954d6546%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C638267931883275463%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=O3eRaBFYdAVqxPxwCTL9JCUiFaYmhWTcGtwJKa%2BJFT4%3D&reserved=0<https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005195839565.html> But I'd rather have a Linux based system or my ELS. John -Original Message- From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com] Sent: August 4, 2023 5:20 PM To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency I think the BBB was popular because of the twp PRUs. These are programmable processors that are separate from the CPU. So you can get very accurate real-time pulses out even with poor latency under Linux. However, this does require programming the PRUs.Machinekit had a HAL unit for the PRUs. I don�t know if LinuxCNC has this or not. On Aug 4, 2023, at 11:18 AM, andy pugh wrote: On Fri, 4 Aug 2023 at 01:48, alanmthomason--- via Emc-users wrote: Hi There.I'm trying to work through setting up linuxcnc on a beaglebone black. I've run the latency-test, with results that are not looking good.has anyone else run this test with a Beaglebone black? Is there any way to improve results. I think that when Machinekit were fond of the Beaglebone they tended to run it headless. I can't recall whether that was just poor graphics performance in general, or whether it was due to latency issues. You could try installing the (old) Machinekit image to see if the latency with that kernel is better. -- atp "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics." � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.sourceforge.net%2Flists%2Flistinfo%2Femc-users&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cdec28113c0d745ae7e5d08db954d6546%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C638267931883275463%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=qTWdux60ZVNVGu500hGv5nTpLIMlYDdL3Zs26yr6p%2Bc%3D&reserved=0<https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users> ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.sourceforge.net%2Flists%2Flistinfo%2Femc-users&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cdec28113c0d745ae7e5d08db954d6546%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C638267931883275463%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=qTWdux60ZVNVGu500hGv5nTpLIMlYDdL3Zs26yr6p%2Bc%3D&reserved=0<https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users> ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.sourceforge.net%2Flists%2Flis
Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency
It makes me wonder which operating system they put on that Chinese controller, and what motion control system. Martin From: John Dammeyer Sent: Friday, August 4, 2023 7:41 PM To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)' Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency My biggest issue with the Xylotex BBB Cape for CNC was that the logic for ESTOP was inverted. ESTOP was a N/O switch so if a wire was broken you wouldn't find out until you tried to save a body part from being injured with the ESTOP. But back when a BBB was around $50 and a cape around $25 you had a 3 axis system. Obviously a break out board of some sort was needed but that's true for MESA or any other type of interface just like motors and switches are needed too. The nice thing about these small systems with a small HDMI screen is that they don't overwhelm the space taken by a small lathe like a 7x12 or Unimat DB200. I don't want a full size screen, mouse and keyboard plus a PC clone for my DB-200 which looks a lot like this one. https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2F83lxxjam0yj71.jpg&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cdec28113c0d745ae7e5d08db954d6546%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C638267931883275463%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=l04m1ookT8TmrWx%2F8azPP2X2qqAyxgSJbezUEI7EZJM%3D&reserved=0<https://i.redd.it/83lxxjam0yj71.jpg> For $100 Cdn free shipping I can get a Chinese Controller. https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.aliexpress.com%2Fitem%2F1005005195839565.html&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cdec28113c0d745ae7e5d08db954d6546%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C638267931883275463%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=O3eRaBFYdAVqxPxwCTL9JCUiFaYmhWTcGtwJKa%2BJFT4%3D&reserved=0<https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005195839565.html> But I'd rather have a Linux based system or my ELS. John > -Original Message- > From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com] > Sent: August 4, 2023 5:20 PM > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency > > I think the BBB was popular because of the twp PRUs. These are > programmable processors that are separate from the CPU. So you can get > very accurate real-time pulses out even with poor latency under Linux. > > However, this does require programming the PRUs.Machinekit had a HAL > unit for the PRUs. I don�t know if LinuxCNC has this or not. > > > > > > On Aug 4, 2023, at 11:18 AM, andy pugh wrote: > > > > On Fri, 4 Aug 2023 at 01:48, alanmthomason--- via Emc-users > > wrote: > >> > >> Hi There.I'm trying to work through setting up linuxcnc on a beaglebone > >> black. I've run the latency-test, with results that are not looking > >> good.has anyone else run this test with a Beaglebone black? Is there any > >> way to improve results. > > > > I think that when Machinekit were fond of the Beaglebone they tended > > to run it headless. I can't recall whether that was just poor graphics > > performance in general, or whether it was due to latency issues. > > > > You could try installing the (old) Machinekit image to see if the > > latency with that kernel is better. > > > > -- > > atp > > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is > > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and > > lunatics." > > � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912 > > > > > > ___ > > Emc-users mailing list > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.sourceforge.net%2Flists%2Flistinfo%2Femc-users&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cdec28113c0d745ae7e5d08db954d6546%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C638267931883275463%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=qTWdux60ZVNVGu500hGv5nTpLIMlYDdL3Zs26yr6p%2Bc%3D&reserved=0<https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users> > > > > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.sourceforge.net%2Flists%2Flistinfo%2Femc-users&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cdec28113c0d745ae7e5d08db954d6546%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C638267931883275463%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3
Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency
My biggest issue with the Xylotex BBB Cape for CNC was that the logic for ESTOP was inverted. ESTOP was a N/O switch so if a wire was broken you wouldn't find out until you tried to save a body part from being injured with the ESTOP. But back when a BBB was around $50 and a cape around $25 you had a 3 axis system. Obviously a break out board of some sort was needed but that's true for MESA or any other type of interface just like motors and switches are needed too. The nice thing about these small systems with a small HDMI screen is that they don't overwhelm the space taken by a small lathe like a 7x12 or Unimat DB200. I don't want a full size screen, mouse and keyboard plus a PC clone for my DB-200 which looks a lot like this one. https://i.redd.it/83lxxjam0yj71.jpg For $100 Cdn free shipping I can get a Chinese Controller. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005195839565.html But I'd rather have a Linux based system or my ELS. John > -Original Message- > From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com] > Sent: August 4, 2023 5:20 PM > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency > > I think the BBB was popular because of the twp PRUs. These are > programmable processors that are separate from the CPU. So you can get > very accurate real-time pulses out even with poor latency under Linux. > > However, this does require programming the PRUs.Machinekit had a HAL > unit for the PRUs. I don�t know if LinuxCNC has this or not. > > > > > > On Aug 4, 2023, at 11:18 AM, andy pugh wrote: > > > > On Fri, 4 Aug 2023 at 01:48, alanmthomason--- via Emc-users > > wrote: > >> > >> Hi There.I'm trying to work through setting up linuxcnc on a beaglebone > >> black. I've run the latency-test, with results that are not looking > >> good.has anyone else run this test with a Beaglebone black? Is there any > >> way to improve results. > > > > I think that when Machinekit were fond of the Beaglebone they tended > > to run it headless. I can't recall whether that was just poor graphics > > performance in general, or whether it was due to latency issues. > > > > You could try installing the (old) Machinekit image to see if the > > latency with that kernel is better. > > > > -- > > atp > > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is > > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and > > lunatics." > > � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912 > > > > > > ___ > > Emc-users mailing list > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > > > > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency
I think the BBB was popular because of the twp PRUs. These are programmable processors that are separate from the CPU. So you can get very accurate real-time pulses out even with poor latency under Linux. However, this does require programming the PRUs.Machinekit had a HAL unit for the PRUs. I don’t know if LinuxCNC has this or not. > On Aug 4, 2023, at 11:18 AM, andy pugh wrote: > > On Fri, 4 Aug 2023 at 01:48, alanmthomason--- via Emc-users > wrote: >> >> Hi There.I'm trying to work through setting up linuxcnc on a beaglebone >> black. I've run the latency-test, with results that are not looking >> good.has anyone else run this test with a Beaglebone black? Is there any >> way to improve results. > > I think that when Machinekit were fond of the Beaglebone they tended > to run it headless. I can't recall whether that was just poor graphics > performance in general, or whether it was due to latency issues. > > You could try installing the (old) Machinekit image to see if the > latency with that kernel is better. > > -- > atp > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and > lunatics." > — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912 > > > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency
On Fri, 4 Aug 2023 at 01:48, alanmthomason--- via Emc-users wrote: > > Hi There.I'm trying to work through setting up linuxcnc on a beaglebone > black. I've run the latency-test, with results that are not looking > good.has anyone else run this test with a Beaglebone black? Is there any > way to improve results. I think that when Machinekit were fond of the Beaglebone they tended to run it headless. I can't recall whether that was just poor graphics performance in general, or whether it was due to latency issues. You could try installing the (old) Machinekit image to see if the latency with that kernel is better. -- atp "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics." — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency
Hi There.I'm trying to work through setting up linuxcnc on a beaglebone black. I've run the latency-test, with results that are not looking good.has anyone else run this test with a Beaglebone black? Is there any way to improve results. Thanks very much.Alan debian@BeagleBone:~/linuxcnc-dev/src$ latency-test prog_name = '/home/debian/linuxcnc-dev/bin/rtapi_app'..Waited 3 seconds for master. giving up. .Note: Using POSIX realtime .Unexpected realtime delay on task 0 with period 25000 This Message will only display once per session. Run the Latency Test and resolve before continuing. prog_name = '/home/debian/linuxcnc-dev/bin/rtapi_app'prog_name = 'pyvcp'...***halcmd_commands 1565 Waiting for component 'lat' to become ready... . ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
