[Emc-users] Control refit options - best economical servo amp for this application?
Hello group; An old friend contacted me recently about problems he has been having with his hobby mill. I say hobby because the man is a top notch surgeon who does mainly reconstruction of destroyed hands. His hobby mill looks to be a late 70's vintage CNC knee mill with a 2 or 3 hp Universal 300 qwik switch spindle. The control CRT is long gone and a BW 7 inch hand held TV is strapped in place using composite RCA video. I'm guessing a Z80A cpu. The Mill has Baldor servos as follows; ModelM-4060-FL-43 Mfg Code 16/190 81633 Max Current25A Torque Stall350 oz inch Max Speed2500 RPM Max Volt120 VDC Baldor servo amps Model UM3012-100 Part # 990122C-00. These are +/- 10V analog with tach velocity feedback. I measure 100VDC at the power supply capacitor. This machine came as a 4 axis but he claims the 4th unit was a basket case when he received it and he just kept the extra amp mounted as a spare. Recently the Y axis had problems so he moved the wiring from that amp to the A axis amp, Now the X is giving him fits and he is blaming the amps but I think the control may be failing. While I was there he set the home offset, and about 15 minutes later that value was missing for X. What he would like to do is replace the amps and control, re-using servos and existing limit switch wiring and power supplies. I looked at Copley and I didn't see anything that looked close. AMC looks like a good contender with the 25A20I. Any others I should look at? I would like to use that tach feedback if possible as this machine may have rather low count encoders and I don't want to touch them at all. I will likely use one of the 5i25 combo's for I/O. I am considering showing him touchy but I have not used it myself as yet so it will be alot more extra homework for me. I also want to try and use the baldor amps at first to prove out limits, homing etc. I get the feeling that his amps are far out of tune due to him meddling with all the trims pots. I will need lots of help with guessing accelspecs and other initial settings, I will likely be very well versed in some areas of using HAL to get things functional. Worse yet - it looks like MY mill may have just given up the ghost also, so that machine may be inline for a refit too. -- Learn the latest--Visual Studio 2012, SharePoint 2013, SQL 2012, more! Discover the easy way to master current and previous Microsoft technologies and advance your career. Get an incredible 1,500+ hours of step-by-step tutorial videos with LearnDevNow. Subscribe today and save! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=58041391iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Control refit options - best economical servo amp for this application?
On Thu, 9/5/13, Greg Bentzinger skullwo...@yahoo.com wrote: Hello group; An old friend contacted me recently about problems he has been having with his hobby mill. I say hobby because the man is a top notch surgeon who does mainly reconstruction of destroyed hands. His hobby mill looks to be a late 70's vintage CNC knee mill with a 2 or 3 hp Universal 300 qwik switch spindle. The control CRT is long gone and a BW 7 inch hand held TV is strapped in place using composite RCA video. I'm guessing a Z80A cpu. The Mill has Baldor servos as follows; ModelM-4060-FL-43 Mfg Code 16/190 81633 Max Current25A Torque Stall350 oz inch Max Speed2500 RPM Max Volt120 VDC - He's in the same boat I'm in. High voltage DC motors and new or new-er amps to drive them are hideously expensive. But a surgeon, you say? That usually means a person of means. I couldn't get around the cost of replacing one missing old amp and then coming up with the hardware to control it - and then always the worry that one of the nearly quarter century old amps would go *poof*, just like lighting $500 on fire. If they were under 100 volts there's plenty of amps or drivers on eBay, but get over 100 volts and there's not much. (I spent a lot of time on there looking for more up to date drives capable of handling 140 volt DC motors.) He'll be best off buying a new kit of motors and drivers with all the wiring. They usually include some cheap Chinese BOB. Use it to get it set up then toss it and get compatible gear from Mesa or Pico or one of the other guys who posts here. If you can afford it, all new is the best because A. It's supposed to work. B. If it doesn't work you can exchange it. If he does want to pinch a few pennies, there's a seller on eBay going by FA-PARTS, selling kits with used drivers and motors, all tested, with all the connectors, wiring diagram and software in English, and a cheap Chinese BOB. The connectors have been cut off of cables so wiring is up to the buyer. (I'm thinking of buying a kit from FA-PARTS but it'll have my investment in the mill over $2,000, dagnabit!) Might be able to part out the old system to recover some of the cost. I've brought in about $700 on old Anilam Crusader M pieces and still have some of it left. Curiously, no bids on the amps at a starting bid of $100. My sights (and budget) are set a bit lower. Still looking at options with NEMA34 size motors - and going to have to have someone else make plates to adapt a NEMA34 mount to a 4 on 75mm bolt circle. That's something your Dr. friend can do before his mill goes dead. Settle on what sort of motors to use then get adapters made. If he doesn't want that 4th axis, I'd be happy to take it off his hands. :-) -- Learn the latest--Visual Studio 2012, SharePoint 2013, SQL 2012, more! Discover the easy way to master current and previous Microsoft technologies and advance your career. Get an incredible 1,500+ hours of step-by-step tutorial videos with LearnDevNow. Subscribe today and save! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=58041391iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Control refit options - best economical servo amp for this application?
On 5 September 2013 08:11, Greg Bentzinger skullwo...@yahoo.com wrote: What he would like to do is replace the amps and control, re-using servos and existing limit switch wiring and power supplies. ... I will likely use one of the 5i25 combo's for I/O. I am considering showing him touchy but I have not used it myself as yet so it will be alot more extra homework for me. For DC servos I would either be looking at second-hand AMC drives from eBay/ New I would be looking at Granite Devices, or the properly dumb drives from Pico or Mesa. http://pico-systems.com/osc2.5/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=3products_id=26 Mesa 7i29 (note that it handles 2 motors per card): http://www.mesanet.com/motioncardinfo.html Neither the Pico or the Mesa card are analogue-input. They both actually want a PWM signal, and both Pico and Mesa have hardware to produce that. The 7i29 is a different family to the 5i25, being 50-pin header rather than DB25. This is mainly a wiring issue, as I understand it, and I think that adapters exist. However unless you are committed to the 5i25 the 5i20 would be simpler. I _think_ that the analogue outputs on the 7i77 are generated by a DAC, so whilst PWM control of Pico amps with a Mesa 5i25 is almost certainly entirely possible, It isn't just a wiring issue, you would need a PWM firmware. -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Learn the latest--Visual Studio 2012, SharePoint 2013, SQL 2012, more! Discover the easy way to master current and previous Microsoft technologies and advance your career. Get an incredible 1,500+ hours of step-by-step tutorial videos with LearnDevNow. Subscribe today and save! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=58041391iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Control refit options - best economical servo amp for this application?
On 09/05/2013 02:53 AM, andy pugh wrote: On 5 September 2013 08:11, Greg Bentzinger skullwo...@yahoo.com wrote: What he would like to do is replace the amps and control, re-using servos and existing limit switch wiring and power supplies. ... I will likely use one of the 5i25 combo's for I/O. I am considering showing him touchy but I have not used it myself as yet so it will be alot more extra homework for me. For DC servos I would either be looking at second-hand AMC drives from eBay/ New I would be looking at Granite Devices, or the properly dumb drives from Pico or Mesa. ... snip The Pico/Mesa amps have my vote. You can leverage the intelligence built into LinuxCNC, instead of trying to arbitrate between LinuxCNC and the intelligence in the drives. LinuxCNC should have no trouble utilizing tachometer, rotary encoder, or scale input, and you get to use HALscope for tuning. -- Kirk Wallace http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/ -- Learn the latest--Visual Studio 2012, SharePoint 2013, SQL 2012, more! Discover the easy way to master current and previous Microsoft technologies and advance your career. Get an incredible 1,500+ hours of step-by-step tutorial videos with LearnDevNow. Subscribe today and save! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=58041391iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Control refit options - best economical servo amp for this application?
Greg Bentzinger wrote: Hello group; An old friend contacted me recently about problems he has been having with his hobby mill. I say hobby because the man is a top notch surgeon who does mainly reconstruction of destroyed hands. His hobby mill looks to be a late 70's vintage CNC knee mill with a 2 or 3 hp Universal 300 qwik switch spindle. The control CRT is long gone and a BW 7 inch hand held TV is strapped in place using composite RCA video. I'm guessing a Z80A cpu. The Mill has Baldor servos as follows; ModelM-4060-FL-43 Mfg Code 16/190 81633 Max Current25A Torque Stall350 oz inch Max Speed2500 RPM Max Volt120 VDC There are a couple of Pico Systems (disclaimer: my company) ways to go with this. We have an analog servo system called the PPMC (Parallel Port Motion Control) that can use analog velocity servo amps such as the Copley or AMC. Copley DOES make higher current servo amps, such as the 422. (180 V, 20 A peak). The other way is our PWM servo amps and PWM controller. This is also capable of 120+ V at 20 A peak. You can look these up at http://pico-systems.com Jon -- Learn the latest--Visual Studio 2012, SharePoint 2013, SQL 2012, more! Discover the easy way to master current and previous Microsoft technologies and advance your career. Get an incredible 1,500+ hours of step-by-step tutorial videos with LearnDevNow. Subscribe today and save! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=58041391iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
