Re: [Emc-users] HAL and INI file settings for Tool length Probing.

2011-09-09 Thread Don Stanley
Thanks Sam
I have just installed a version of that and am now
investigating how to be more efficient (lazy) with an
automatic Tool changer.
Don

On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 2:17 PM, sam sokolik  wrote:

> When I first started playing with emc - I was making circuit boards.  I
> was using a rotozip type head (small collet) and for me the easiest
> solution was to split the program up for each tool.  Then I found the
> gcode.ulp that Chris R and Jeff E wrote.
> http://git.unpy.net/view/eagle.git
>
> it is quite slick - you need a switch that the tool can touch.
>
> It works like this
> You setup your first tool.  (set it for your material)  This could
> technically be done with the probe switch also - if you know the
> distance between the switch and your part.
> Then when you run the Gcode - it first touches off the first tool to the
> probe switch.  This is your 'reference' length.
> Now when the program pauses for the next tool - you replace it.
> The first thing it does is probe the new tool length and offset it
> compared to your 'reference' tool.
> sets the correct offset and continues on with the program.
>
> It made making circuit boards with multitude mills and drills pretty
> painless.
>
> sam
>
>
> On 9/9/2011 1:01 PM, John Prentice wrote:
> > Greetings
> >> There is the Tormach TTS scheme that might be adaptable to a tool
> >> changer.  Maybe
> >> magnetic rings could hold the holder while transferring it to the
> spindle.
> >>
> > First I declare an interest as I do work for Tormach.
> >
> > The current design of TTS geometry allows for a tool changer.
> >
> > There is a power drawbar and changer sold for the PCNCs. How easy it
> would
> > be to fit top something else I cannot say.
> >
> > http://www.tormach.com/document_library/Datasheets/DS32279_ATC.pdf
> >
> > John Prentice
> >
> >
> >
> --
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> > Osterman Research conducted this study that outlines how and why cloud
> > computing security and archiving is rapidly being adopted across the IT
> > space for its ease of implementation, lower cost, and increased
> > reliability. Learn more.
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> >
> >
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] HAL and INI file settings for Tool length Probing.

2011-09-09 Thread Don Stanley
Thanks to All;
This will keep me busy for a while.
Don

On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 1:33 PM, Jon Elson  wrote:

> Don Stanley wrote:
> > Hi Jon;
> > Presently I am using the hollow R8 collets waiting for someone to
> > develop a tool changer for the R8 machines before buying a pot full of
> > the R8 end mill holders. My work has been mostly one of a kind so far
> > but will soon switch to batch jobs and I will be forced to the end mill
> > holders
> > with or without a Tool Changer.
> >
> > Do you know of any R8 tool changers that cost less than a mill?
> > Or maybe a good design that could be duplicated?
> >
> I'm sure, if I wanted to, I could make a tool changer that would work
> with R-8.  But, it wouldn't
> be really simple.  You'd probably
> need some kind of standard ring to grip the holders with, and I'm not
> clear on how those could
> be easily attached to all the different holders.  What I'm envisioning
> would end up looking a bit
> like a miniaturized Cat V-flange holder.  You also need spindle orient
> unless you take the
> key out of the spindle.
>
Jon
Taking the key out of the spindle was very easy when I hit the wrong
button on the CNC system Pendant I was using before EMC2.


>
> There is the Tormach TTS scheme that might be adaptable to a tool
> changer.  Maybe
> magnetic rings could hold the holder while transferring it to the spindle.
>
> Anyway, I found that without a changer, it makes MUCH more sense to
> change the work,
> and do all procedures on ALL workpieces before changing the tool.  That
> may not work
> as well for complex parts that require a lot of machining steps on each
> piece, but it works
> for the parts I do.
>
> Jon
>
>
> --
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> computing security and archiving is rapidly being adopted across the IT
> space for its ease of implementation, lower cost, and increased
> reliability. Learn more. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51425301/
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Re: [Emc-users] HAL and INI file settings for Tool length Probing.

2011-09-09 Thread sam sokolik
When I first started playing with emc - I was making circuit boards.  I 
was using a rotozip type head (small collet) and for me the easiest 
solution was to split the program up for each tool.  Then I found the 
gcode.ulp that Chris R and Jeff E wrote.   
http://git.unpy.net/view/eagle.git

it is quite slick - you need a switch that the tool can touch.

It works like this
You setup your first tool.  (set it for your material)  This could 
technically be done with the probe switch also - if you know the 
distance between the switch and your part.
Then when you run the Gcode - it first touches off the first tool to the 
probe switch.  This is your 'reference' length.
Now when the program pauses for the next tool - you replace it.
The first thing it does is probe the new tool length and offset it 
compared to your 'reference' tool.
sets the correct offset and continues on with the program.

It made making circuit boards with multitude mills and drills pretty 
painless.

sam


On 9/9/2011 1:01 PM, John Prentice wrote:
> Greetings
>> There is the Tormach TTS scheme that might be adaptable to a tool
>> changer.  Maybe
>> magnetic rings could hold the holder while transferring it to the spindle.
>>
> First I declare an interest as I do work for Tormach.
>
> The current design of TTS geometry allows for a tool changer.
>
> There is a power drawbar and changer sold for the PCNCs. How easy it would
> be to fit top something else I cannot say.
>
> http://www.tormach.com/document_library/Datasheets/DS32279_ATC.pdf
>
> John Prentice
>
>
> --
> Why Cloud-Based Security and Archiving Make Sense
> Osterman Research conducted this study that outlines how and why cloud
> computing security and archiving is rapidly being adopted across the IT
> space for its ease of implementation, lower cost, and increased
> reliability. Learn more. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51425301/
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>

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Re: [Emc-users] HAL and INI file settings for Tool length Probing.

2011-09-09 Thread John Prentice
Greetings
>
> There is the Tormach TTS scheme that might be adaptable to a tool
> changer.  Maybe
> magnetic rings could hold the holder while transferring it to the spindle.
>
First I declare an interest as I do work for Tormach.

The current design of TTS geometry allows for a tool changer.

There is a power drawbar and changer sold for the PCNCs. How easy it would 
be to fit top something else I cannot say.

http://www.tormach.com/document_library/Datasheets/DS32279_ATC.pdf

John Prentice 


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Re: [Emc-users] HAL and INI file settings for Tool length Probing.

2011-09-09 Thread Jon Elson
Don Stanley wrote:
> Hi Jon;
> Presently I am using the hollow R8 collets waiting for someone to
> develop a tool changer for the R8 machines before buying a pot full of
> the R8 end mill holders. My work has been mostly one of a kind so far
> but will soon switch to batch jobs and I will be forced to the end mill
> holders
> with or without a Tool Changer.
>
> Do you know of any R8 tool changers that cost less than a mill?
> Or maybe a good design that could be duplicated?
>   
I'm sure, if I wanted to, I could make a tool changer that would work 
with R-8.  But, it wouldn't
be really simple.  You'd probably
need some kind of standard ring to grip the holders with, and I'm not 
clear on how those could
be easily attached to all the different holders.  What I'm envisioning 
would end up looking a bit
like a miniaturized Cat V-flange holder.  You also need spindle orient 
unless you take the
key out of the spindle.

There is the Tormach TTS scheme that might be adaptable to a tool 
changer.  Maybe
magnetic rings could hold the holder while transferring it to the spindle.

Anyway, I found that without a changer, it makes MUCH more sense to 
change the work,
and do all procedures on ALL workpieces before changing the tool.  That 
may not work
as well for complex parts that require a lot of machining steps on each 
piece, but it works
for the parts I do.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] HAL and INI file settings for Tool length Probing.

2011-09-09 Thread andy pugh
On 9 September 2011 12:13, John Thornton  wrote:
> If it is a BP knee mill you can get a Quick Switch 200 spindle and set
> each tool offset before you run.

There is also this system: http://www.royalprod.com/product.cfm?catID=11

-- 
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"Torque wrenches are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men"

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Re: [Emc-users] HAL and INI file settings for Tool length Probing.

2011-09-09 Thread John Thornton
If it is a BP knee mill you can get a Quick Switch 200 spindle and set 
each tool offset before you run. You still have to swap by hand but it 
is repeatable and quick. My BP Series 1 with Anilam conversion is set up 
this way.

John

On 9/9/2011 12:31 AM, Don Stanley wrote:
> Hi Jon;
> Presently I am using the hollow R8 collets waiting for someone to
> develop a tool changer for the R8 machines before buying a pot full of
> the R8 end mill holders. My work has been mostly one of a kind so far
> but will soon switch to batch jobs and I will be forced to the end mill
> holders
> with or without a Tool Changer.
>
> Do you know of any R8 tool changers that cost less than a mill?
> Or maybe a good design that could be duplicated?
>
>  Thanks
>  Don
>
> On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 10:23 PM, Jon Elson  wrote:
>
>> andy pugh wrote:
>>> If you don't have a tool setter, but can measure the tool-length
>>> (maybe even just height-above-table measured with a caliper with a
>>> suitable choice of toolchange position) then the G10 could pull a
>>> measurement out of a textbox in a GladeVCP panel.
>>>
>> If the OP has a way to repeatably install tools, such as end mill
>> holders instead of collets,
>> then he can measure the tools in several ways and put the length offsets
>> in the tool table.
>> Then, the tool length can be set from the tool table when the tool is
>> put in the spindle.
>> See http://pico-systems.com/preset.html for one method of doing this.
>> You can also measure
>> the length of the tool on the machine and calculate the offset to put in
>> the tool table.
>>
>> Jon
>>
>>
>> --
>> Why Cloud-Based Security and Archiving Make Sense
>> Osterman Research conducted this study that outlines how and why cloud
>> computing security and archiving is rapidly being adopted across the IT
>> space for its ease of implementation, lower cost, and increased
>> reliability. Learn more. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51425301/
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Re: [Emc-users] HAL and INI file settings for Tool length Probing.

2011-09-09 Thread andy pugh
On 9 September 2011 08:29, Kirk Wallace  wrote:

> Have you seen the Tormach holders?:
> http://www.tormach.com/Product_TTS2.html

They made a prototype drawbar for TTS, but I don't know if it made it
to production:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kxw9d6kI7A

> There should be a couple of people on this list that have made stud
> puller type draw bars, but I have lost the links. ... Found one -- Andy
> has a video here:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxrzJ_KfcQ0

A bit more information here:
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/vertical_mill_lathe_project_log/109301-harrison_universal_miller_conversion.html

This spreadsheet should help with working out the spring stack length
and which sizes to use.
http://www.bodgesoc.org/DIN2093DiscSprings.xls
If you read off the required load on the left, then project across to
the line representing a particular spring, then down to the X axis you
can read off the available further deflection to flat of a 100mm stack
of those springs. x2 means a doubled-up stack, ie two pointing up,
then 2 pointing down, then 2 pointing up rather than a simple
up-down-up-down stack.

-- 
atp
"Torque wrenches are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men"

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Re: [Emc-users] HAL and INI file settings for Tool length Probing.

2011-09-09 Thread Kirk Wallace
On Fri, 2011-09-09 at 01:31 -0400, Don Stanley wrote:
> Hi Jon;
> Presently I am using the hollow R8 collets waiting for someone to
> develop a tool changer for the R8 machines before buying a pot full of
> the R8 end mill holders. My work has been mostly one of a kind so far
> but will soon switch to batch jobs and I will be forced to the end mill
> holders
> with or without a Tool Changer.
> 
> Do you know of any R8 tool changers that cost less than a mill?
> Or maybe a good design that could be duplicated?

Have you seen the Tormach holders?:
http://www.tormach.com/Product_TTS2.html 

May be useable with a rack type changer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etfmFJKksgQ 

http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?RackToolChanger 

http://www.cnccookbook.com/CCMillDrawbar.html 

There should be a couple of people on this list that have made stud
puller type draw bars, but I have lost the links. ... Found one -- Andy
has a video here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxrzJ_KfcQ0 

If you were going to invest in a lot of tool holders, I would consider
grinding the R8 spindle taper to use CAT30 or one of the other 30
tapers.
http://www.tools-n-gizmos.com/specs/Tapers.html 


-- 
Kirk Wallace
http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html
California, USA


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Re: [Emc-users] HAL and INI file settings for Tool length Probing.

2011-09-08 Thread Don Stanley
Hi Jon;
Presently I am using the hollow R8 collets waiting for someone to
develop a tool changer for the R8 machines before buying a pot full of
the R8 end mill holders. My work has been mostly one of a kind so far
but will soon switch to batch jobs and I will be forced to the end mill
holders
with or without a Tool Changer.

Do you know of any R8 tool changers that cost less than a mill?
Or maybe a good design that could be duplicated?

Thanks
Don

On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 10:23 PM, Jon Elson  wrote:

> andy pugh wrote:
> >
> > If you don't have a tool setter, but can measure the tool-length
> > (maybe even just height-above-table measured with a caliper with a
> > suitable choice of toolchange position) then the G10 could pull a
> > measurement out of a textbox in a GladeVCP panel.
> >
> If the OP has a way to repeatably install tools, such as end mill
> holders instead of collets,
> then he can measure the tools in several ways and put the length offsets
> in the tool table.
> Then, the tool length can be set from the tool table when the tool is
> put in the spindle.
> See http://pico-systems.com/preset.html for one method of doing this.
> You can also measure
> the length of the tool on the machine and calculate the offset to put in
> the tool table.
>
> Jon
>
>
> --
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> computing security and archiving is rapidly being adopted across the IT
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> reliability. Learn more. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51425301/
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Re: [Emc-users] HAL and INI file settings for Tool length Probing.

2011-09-08 Thread Jon Elson
andy pugh wrote:
>
> If you don't have a tool setter, but can measure the tool-length
> (maybe even just height-above-table measured with a caliper with a
> suitable choice of toolchange position) then the G10 could pull a
> measurement out of a textbox in a GladeVCP panel.
>   
If the OP has a way to repeatably install tools, such as end mill 
holders instead of collets,
then he can measure the tools in several ways and put the length offsets 
in the tool table.
Then, the tool length can be set from the tool table when the tool is 
put in the spindle.
See http://pico-systems.com/preset.html for one method of doing this.  
You can also measure
the length of the tool on the machine and calculate the offset to put in 
the tool table.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] HAL and INI file settings for Tool length Probing.

2011-09-08 Thread Don Stanley
Thanks Fox and Andy;
That's what I needed.

It's embarrassing the times I looked over the last line of the page of
motion.xxx information to try to make sense of the motion.position group on
the next page.
I guess that proves "if one doesn't know what they are looking for, they
won't know when they find it".

Thanks again
Don

2011/9/8 Fox Mulder 

> Am 08.09.2011 22:22, schrieb Don Stanley:
> > Thanks Andy;
> > The thing I am stumbling over is What to connect the touch switch pin to
> > in the .hal file. After that I have no idea ask but I think you may have
> > answered some of it.
>
> The intenal signal is "motion.probe-input" which you should connect to
> the probe switch.
>
> a few months ago i wrote a little skript (tool-length-set.ngc) which
> measures all tool lengths and writes the offset to the reference tool
> into the tool table.
> The reference tool is the first one in the script and has no tool number
> (T0). The comments are mostly german but i think the script is not very
> complex to understand. :)
>
> Ciao,
> Rainer
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] HAL and INI file settings for Tool length Probing.

2011-09-08 Thread Fox Mulder
Am 08.09.2011 22:22, schrieb Don Stanley:
> Thanks Andy;
> The thing I am stumbling over is What to connect the touch switch pin to
> in the .hal file. After that I have no idea ask but I think you may have
> answered some of it.

The intenal signal is "motion.probe-input" which you should connect to
the probe switch.

a few months ago i wrote a little skript (tool-length-set.ngc) which
measures all tool lengths and writes the offset to the reference tool
into the tool table.
The reference tool is the first one in the script and has no tool number
(T0). The comments are mostly german but i think the script is not very
complex to understand. :)

Ciao,
 Rainer

(Automatisches ausmessen der verschiedenen Tool Längen und eintragen in die 
tool.tbl)

(PROBEOPEN probe.txt)

(Subroutine, welche das aktuelle Tool ausmisst)
O100 sub
O101 repeat [#<_count>]
(messe naechstes tool)
G0 Z30
T[#<_tool_nr>] M6 (insert used tool number)
G30 (fahre auf vordefinierte position, gesetzt mit g30.1)
G38.2 Z-20 F70 (messe solange bis schalter gedrueckt)
G38.4 Z20 F10 (messe solange bis schalter geoeffnet)
# = [#5063-#<_ref>]
(debug, Laengenunterschied Tool #<_tool_nr> zur Referenz = #)
G10 L1 P[#<_tool_nr>] Z[#] (tool offset speichern)
#<_tool_nr> = [#<_tool_nr> + 1] (tool nummer erhoehen)
O101 endrepeat
O100 endsub

(messe referenz tool nummer 1)
T0 M6 (kein Tool auswaehlen)
G30 (fahre auf vordefinierte position, gesetzt mit g30.1)
G49 (tool offset deaktivieren)
G91 (relative distanz verfahren)
G38.2 Z-20 F70 (messe solange bis schalter gedrueckt)
G38.4 Z20 F10 (messe solange bis schalter geoeffnet)
#<_ref>=#5063 (save reference tool length)

#<_count> = 5 (5 tools ausmessen)
#<_tool_nr> = 10 (erste toolnummer, welche sequenziell erhoeht wird)
O100 call

G0 Z5 (relative 5mm ueber dem geoeffneten schalter)
G90 (absolute koordinaten)

(PROBECLOSE)

(debug, Tool Offset ist immer noch aktiv!)
M2 (programm ende)
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Re: [Emc-users] HAL and INI file settings for Tool length Probing.

2011-09-08 Thread andy pugh
On 8 September 2011 21:22, Don Stanley  wrote:
> Thanks Andy;
> The thing I am stumbling over is What to connect the touch switch pin to
> in the .hal file.

Try motion.probe-input

-- 
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Re: [Emc-users] HAL and INI file settings for Tool length Probing.

2011-09-08 Thread Don Stanley
Thanks Andy;
The thing I am stumbling over is What to connect the touch switch pin to
in the .hal file. After that I have no idea ask but I think you may have
answered some of it.
Thanks again.
Don

On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 3:51 PM, andy pugh  wrote:

> On 8 September 2011 19:19, Don Stanley  wrote:
>
> > I need to implement Manual Tool Change Length Probing on an
> > EMC2 2.4.5 mill to avoid breaking the G-code into many parts.
> > I have several versions of the G-code subroutines.
>
> I don't think that there are any settings which will do it automatically.
>
> I think you should be able to replace all M6 T3 with O [3]
> though.
>
> I think that the O would then have to call M6 in the
> normal way, and do a G43, then G0 to some tolerance above the setting
> plate, do a G38 probe, then do a bit if maths with the values in #5063
> and #5403, and use the value in a G10 L1, or maybe a fixed/known
> relationship between the toolsetter and the machine coordinates and
> then a bit of clever in the O to pick the right Z offset for the
> current coordinate system (which I think is #[5214 + 9 * 5220] ) and a
> G10 L10.
>
> If you don't have a tool setter, but can measure the tool-length
> (maybe even just height-above-table measured with a caliper with a
> suitable choice of toolchange position) then the G10 could pull a
> measurement out of a textbox in a GladeVCP panel.
>
> I probably am not answering the question you asked am I?
>
> --
> atp
> "Torque wrenches are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise
> men"
>
>
> --
> Doing More with Less: The Next Generation Virtual Desktop
> What are the key obstacles that have prevented many mid-market businesses
> from deploying virtual desktops?   How do next-generation virtual desktops
> provide companies an easier-to-deploy, easier-to-manage and more affordable
> virtual desktop model.http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51426474/
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Re: [Emc-users] HAL and INI file settings for Tool length Probing.

2011-09-08 Thread andy pugh
On 8 September 2011 19:19, Don Stanley  wrote:

> I need to implement Manual Tool Change Length Probing on an
> EMC2 2.4.5 mill to avoid breaking the G-code into many parts.
> I have several versions of the G-code subroutines.

I don't think that there are any settings which will do it automatically.

I think you should be able to replace all M6 T3 with O [3] though.

I think that the O would then have to call M6 in the
normal way, and do a G43, then G0 to some tolerance above the setting
plate, do a G38 probe, then do a bit if maths with the values in #5063
and #5403, and use the value in a G10 L1, or maybe a fixed/known
relationship between the toolsetter and the machine coordinates and
then a bit of clever in the O to pick the right Z offset for the
current coordinate system (which I think is #[5214 + 9 * 5220] ) and a
G10 L10.

If you don't have a tool setter, but can measure the tool-length
(maybe even just height-above-table measured with a caliper with a
suitable choice of toolchange position) then the G10 could pull a
measurement out of a textbox in a GladeVCP panel.

I probably am not answering the question you asked am I?

-- 
atp
"Torque wrenches are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men"

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[Emc-users] HAL and INI file settings for Tool length Probing.

2011-09-08 Thread Don Stanley
Hi All:
I need to implement Manual Tool Change Length Probing on an
EMC2 2.4.5 mill to avoid breaking the G-code into many parts.
I have several versions of the G-code subroutines.

Admittedly I haven't read all the Manuals, again today, but am
unable to find what is needed in .hal and what is needed in the
.ini file in addition to TOOL-CHANGE-AT-G30=1.

Any Help is greatly appreciated.
Thanks
don
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