Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 22 February 2017 08:56:08 Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:

> On Wed, 2017-02-22 at 08:14 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Wednesday 22 February 2017 04:50:20 Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > > > Haveing a module processing data from a read above the actual
> > > > port read inserts a one loop execution delay in processing that
> > > > data, so unless you want a delay on purpose, the order is always
> > > > the read at the top of the list, the data massaging in the
> > > > middle, and the write of that data is always last in the addf
> > > > order. The data twiddling can be a thousand lines below all
> > > > this, but it will be executed in the order of the addf's. Delays
> > > > in processing, then making use of that data affects the
> > > > stability of the loop because the data is stale.  Most
> > > > noticeable when setting up the PID modules.
> > >
> > > Thanks Gene for this clarification about LinuxCNC internals
> >
> > You're most welcome.
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > > I'm not accustomed to inches, that should be 40 * 2.54 = 101.6
> > > mm/min
> >
> > Wrong multiplier, an inch is 25.4 mm's, so 75 ipm=1905mm/minute,
> > almost 2 meters a minute. With the right motor instead of this 1600
> > oz clunker I'm useing, I could at least double that.
>
> That's true, oops, but well, yes the max speed is approx 2000mm/min
>
> > > with my current machine I can set a speed of up to 800mm/min (when
> > > cutting wood) without any problem
> >
> > Thats about 31.5"/minute. None of my spindles can cut mahogany at
> > more than 15"/minute, the spindle is way to slow, and then, since
> > its generally 3/4 inches thick wood, I do it in 3 passes to full
> > depth.  I am fond of the Green and Green joint, a huge box joint
> > whose fingers are somewhere between 22 and and 28mm's wide, for
> > furniture, and make it on the G0704, including the assembly screw
> > holes and the square pockets above those for the ebony buttons that
> > hide the screws. I make those on the milling machine too.
> >
> > But the top speed on its spindle is around 2750 with the cheap
> > bearings in the back gearing screaming for mercy. I've got to
> > replace them with quality bearings. I don't often run it above 1500
> > in deference to those cheap bearings.
> >
> > Where on this ball of rock and water are you?
> >
> > Cheers Valerio Bellizzomi, Gene Heskett
> >
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
>
> I can cut wood at 20mm depth at 300 to 500 mm/min
>
> but the vfd on my pantograph has a manual dial and a Hertz display, so
> I don't know the rpm for sure, only the frequency is displayed which I
> don't remember now
>
That motor, since you are cutting wood, is quite likely a "2 pole" motor, 
which would turn at 3575 revs or so w/o loading when the vfd says 60 hz, 
and would be turning quite close to 24 thousand rpms at 400 hz. If your 
vfd can go higher, the motor would speed up to even more rpms, but 
you'll eventually it a limit, either because the motor explodes or its 
inductance gets in the way of establishing a strong enough rotating 
magnetic field and the motor goes into mangetic slippage with almost 
zero torque to do work.

I'd add a pyvcp tachometer to the axis display, setting its full scale to 
the motors rated top speed, then feed it with the pwmgen.value input, 
thru a scale module to make the tach dial match the speed. Thats NOT the 
feedback obtained from a motor encoder, but if the scale modules gain is 
set correctly, it should match the motors speed within 1 or 2 percent. 
If the motors slip angle becomes too great, the vfd may complain, or 
even stop  with an overload message. That equals a damaged project and 
quite likely a broken tool, obviously to be avoided.

If the error message is accompanied by a signal that could be used to 
exert an e-stop, that is certifiably a Good Thing. My counterfeit vfd 
that is turning the spindle on this Sheldon 11x26 lathe I am converting, 
has no such tally output, darn it. Best I could do is compare the 
command to the vfd with the encoders output velocity, which in the grand 
scheme of things would also catch bad belt slippage and such, so that 
may get done. I just need to find a round tuit. I may have to make some 
of those yet. When I get the time. ;-)

Cheers Valerio Bellizzomi, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Valerio Bellizzomi]

On Wed, 2017-02-22 at 08:14 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Wednesday 22 February 2017 04:50:20 Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> 
> 
> > > Haveing a module processing data from a read above the actual port
> > > read inserts a one loop execution delay in processing that data, so
> > > unless you want a delay on purpose, the order is always the read at
> > > the top of the list, the data massaging in the middle, and the write
> > > of that data is always last in the addf order. The data twiddling
> > > can be a thousand lines below all this, but it will be executed in
> > > the order of the addf's. Delays in processing, then making use of
> > > that data affects the stability of the loop because the data is
> > > stale.  Most noticeable when setting up the PID modules.
> >
> > Thanks Gene for this clarification about LinuxCNC internals
> 
> You're most welcome.
> 
> [...]
> 
> > I'm not accustomed to inches, that should be 40 * 2.54 = 101.6 mm/min
> 
> Wrong multiplier, an inch is 25.4 mm's, so 75 ipm=1905mm/minute, almost 2 
> meters a minute. With the right motor instead of this 1600 oz clunker 
> I'm useing, I could at least double that.

That's true, oops, but well, yes the max speed is approx 2000mm/min


> > with my current machine I can set a speed of up to 800mm/min (when
> > cutting wood) without any problem
> 
> Thats about 31.5"/minute. None of my spindles can cut mahogany at more 
> than 15"/minute, the spindle is way to slow, and then, since its 
> generally 3/4 inches thick wood, I do it in 3 passes to full depth.  I 
> am fond of the Green and Green joint, a huge box joint whose fingers are 
> somewhere between 22 and and 28mm's wide, for furniture, and make it on 
> the G0704, including the assembly screw holes and the square pockets 
> above those for the ebony buttons that hide the screws. I make those on 
> the milling machine too.
> 
> But the top speed on its spindle is around 2750 with the cheap bearings 
> in the back gearing screaming for mercy. I've got to replace them with 
> quality bearings. I don't often run it above 1500 in deference to those 
> cheap bearings.
> 
> Where on this ball of rock and water are you?
> 
> Cheers Valerio Bellizzomi, Gene Heskett
> 
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett

I can cut wood at 20mm depth at 300 to 500 mm/min

but the vfd on my pantograph has a manual dial and a Hertz display, so I
don't know the rpm for sure, only the frequency is displayed which I
don't remember now



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Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 22 February 2017 04:50:20 Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:


> > Haveing a module processing data from a read above the actual port
> > read inserts a one loop execution delay in processing that data, so
> > unless you want a delay on purpose, the order is always the read at
> > the top of the list, the data massaging in the middle, and the write
> > of that data is always last in the addf order. The data twiddling
> > can be a thousand lines below all this, but it will be executed in
> > the order of the addf's. Delays in processing, then making use of
> > that data affects the stability of the loop because the data is
> > stale.  Most noticeable when setting up the PID modules.
>
> Thanks Gene for this clarification about LinuxCNC internals

You're most welcome.

[...]

> I'm not accustomed to inches, that should be 40 * 2.54 = 101.6 mm/min

Wrong multiplier, an inch is 25.4 mm's, so 75 ipm=1905mm/minute, almost 2 
meters a minute. With the right motor instead of this 1600 oz clunker 
I'm useing, I could at least double that.

> with my current machine I can set a speed of up to 800mm/min (when
> cutting wood) without any problem

Thats about 31.5"/minute. None of my spindles can cut mahogany at more 
than 15"/minute, the spindle is way to slow, and then, since its 
generally 3/4 inches thick wood, I do it in 3 passes to full depth.  I 
am fond of the Green and Green joint, a huge box joint whose fingers are 
somewhere between 22 and and 28mm's wide, for furniture, and make it on 
the G0704, including the assembly screw holes and the square pockets 
above those for the ebony buttons that hide the screws. I make those on 
the milling machine too.

But the top speed on its spindle is around 2750 with the cheap bearings 
in the back gearing screaming for mercy. I've got to replace them with 
quality bearings. I don't often run it above 1500 in deference to those 
cheap bearings.

Where on this ball of rock and water are you?

Cheers Valerio Bellizzomi, Gene Heskett


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Valerio Bellizzomi]

On Wed, 2017-02-22 at 02:53 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Wednesday 22 February 2017 01:51:15 Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> 
> > Sorry for the confusion, I meant to ask if this configuration is good
> > for running with the SPINx1
> >
> loadrt  hal_parport cfg="0x378 out  "
> setpparport.0.reset-time2700
> > loadrt pwmgen output_type=0
> addfpwmgen.make-pulses  base-thread
> > addf pwmgen.update servo-thread
> > net spindle-speed-cmd motion.spindle-speed-out => pwmgen.0.value
> > net spindle-on motion.spindle-on => pwmgen.0.enable
> > net spindle-pwm pwmgen.0.pwm => parport.0.pin-09-out
> > # Set the spindle's top speed in RPM
> > setp pwmgen.0.scale 1800
> 
> On my small mill, software step etc generation, this scale is set to the top 
> speed the spindle can turn, so is 2500. If your spindle can do 6000, yes, 6000


I am going to try this configuration when the board arrives


> > with say the scale set to 6000 rpm, it is going to work as is ?
> 
> A couple things to consider, the most important related to the order of the 
> addf's. This list is internally executed in the order encountered in the hal 
> file. So I always do the base-thread addf's first, then list the servo-thread 
> entries next just because its a bit of "organization". The actual processing 
> you are constructing is two execution loops, the base thread executed many 
> times for each pass thru the much slower servo-thread.
> 
> Haveing a module processing data from a read above the actual port read 
> inserts a one loop execution delay in processing that data, so unless you 
> want a delay on purpose, the order is always the read at the top of the list, 
> the data massaging in the middle, and the write of that data is always last 
> in the addf order. The data twiddling can be a thousand lines below all this, 
> but it will be executed in the order of the addf's. Delays in processing, 
> then making use of that data affects the stability of the loop because the 
> data is stale.  Most noticeable when setting up the PID modules.
> 


Thanks Gene for this clarification about LinuxCNC internals




> I am not using a spinx1 on that machine, but a now elderly PMDX-101 version 
> that is essentially a clone of the spinx1, but has a bunch of switches and a 
> pot so I can control the spindle either by the gcode, or totally manually, 
> forward and reverse just by flipping the switches. I do not know if current 
> PMDX cards have that same functionality or not, but at the time I converted 
> it over a decade ago, it was the most useful version extant.
> 
> It obviously cost more, a lot more as those parts were top shelf all the way. 
> The only problem I've had with the whole setup was that I blew motor fuses 
> regularly long before the motor stalled, and eventually the switching 
> transistor in the motor circuit blew.
> 
> Rummaging around in my pile of dead computer PSU's, I found a transistor that 
> looked just like it, but could handle 3x the voltage and 10x the current. 
> Using static conrol measures (its a hexfet) I transplanted one of those to 
> the motor control, added an amp to the fuse, and the blown another fuse 
> problem has been fixed.
> 
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > On Tue, 2017-02-21 at 16:54 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > On Tuesday 21 February 2017 12:15:22 Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > > > From the LinuxCNC manual I see an example :
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > loadrt pwmgen output_type=0
> > > > addf pwmgen.update servo-thread
> > > > addf pwmgen.make-pulses base-thread
> > > > net spindle-speed-cmd motion.spindle-speed-out => pwmgen.0.value
> > > > net spindle-on motion.spindle-on => pwmgen.0.enable
> > > > net spindle-pwm pwmgen.0.pwm => parport.0.pin-09-out
> > > > # Set the spindle's top speed in RPM
> > > > setp pwmgen.0.scale 1800
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > is this sufficient to get the spindle going ?
> > >
> > > This would be for purely software driving, which generally cannot
> > > drive a machine to anything resembling high speeds when it is
> > > supposed to be making a G0 move.
> > >
> > > Thats is why the majority of us use a smart card, which in some
> > > cases can be its own breakoutboard too.  Such is the case with all
> > > but one of my machines, and that one can only move around 8ipm
> > > cutting and 10 or so at full throttle. My stuff with more std
> > > interfaces can move 40 to 75 ipm without missing a beat.


I'm not accustomed to inches, that should be 40 * 2.54 = 101.6 mm/min

with my current machine I can set a speed of up to 800mm/min (when
cutting wood) without any problem

I just make sure the spindle speed is ok so that it doesn't burn the
wood


> > > Also associated in the speed limits are the limited drive currants
> > > available from the parport. Getting 10 mills out to drive the
> > > stepper drivers doesn't turn on the opto's all that fast, so that
> > > contributes to the speed limit. Most of the accessory boards can
> > > sink 24 mills, easily turning the led 

Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 22 February 2017 01:51:15 Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:

> Sorry for the confusion, I meant to ask if this configuration is good
> for running with the SPINx1
>
loadrt  hal_parport cfg="0x378 out  "
setpparport.0.reset-time2700
> loadrt pwmgen output_type=0
addfpwmgen.make-pulses  base-thread
> addf pwmgen.update servo-thread
> net spindle-speed-cmd motion.spindle-speed-out => pwmgen.0.value
> net spindle-on motion.spindle-on => pwmgen.0.enable
> net spindle-pwm pwmgen.0.pwm => parport.0.pin-09-out
> # Set the spindle's top speed in RPM
> setp pwmgen.0.scale 1800

On my small mill, software step etc generation, this scale is set to the top 
speed the spindle can turn, so is 2500. If your spindle can do 6000, yes, 6000

> with say the scale set to 6000 rpm, it is going to work as is ?

A couple things to consider, the most important related to the order of the 
addf's. This list is internally executed in the order encountered in the hal 
file. So I always do the base-thread addf's first, then list the servo-thread 
entries next just because its a bit of "organization". The actual processing 
you are constructing is two execution loops, the base thread executed many 
times for each pass thru the much slower servo-thread.

Haveing a module processing data from a read above the actual port read inserts 
a one loop execution delay in processing that data, so unless you want a delay 
on purpose, the order is always the read at the top of the list, the data 
massaging in the middle, and the write of that data is always last in the addf 
order. The data twiddling can be a thousand lines below all this, but it will 
be executed in the order of the addf's. Delays in processing, then making use 
of that data affects the stability of the loop because the data is stale.  Most 
noticeable when setting up the PID modules.

I am not using a spinx1 on that machine, but a now elderly PMDX-101 version 
that is essentially a clone of the spinx1, but has a bunch of switches and a 
pot so I can control the spindle either by the gcode, or totally manually, 
forward and reverse just by flipping the switches. I do not know if current 
PMDX cards have that same functionality or not, but at the time I converted it 
over a decade ago, it was the most useful version extant.

It obviously cost more, a lot more as those parts were top shelf all the way. 
The only problem I've had with the whole setup was that I blew motor fuses 
regularly long before the motor stalled, and eventually the switching 
transistor in the motor circuit blew.

Rummaging around in my pile of dead computer PSU's, I found a transistor that 
looked just like it, but could handle 3x the voltage and 10x the current. Using 
static conrol measures (its a hexfet) I transplanted one of those to the motor 
control, added an amp to the fuse, and the blown another fuse problem has been 
fixed.

>
> Thanks
>
> On Tue, 2017-02-21 at 16:54 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Tuesday 21 February 2017 12:15:22 Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > > From the LinuxCNC manual I see an example :
> > >
> > >
> > > loadrt pwmgen output_type=0
> > > addf pwmgen.update servo-thread
> > > addf pwmgen.make-pulses base-thread
> > > net spindle-speed-cmd motion.spindle-speed-out => pwmgen.0.value
> > > net spindle-on motion.spindle-on => pwmgen.0.enable
> > > net spindle-pwm pwmgen.0.pwm => parport.0.pin-09-out
> > > # Set the spindle's top speed in RPM
> > > setp pwmgen.0.scale 1800
> > >
> > >
> > > is this sufficient to get the spindle going ?
> >
> > This would be for purely software driving, which generally cannot
> > drive a machine to anything resembling high speeds when it is
> > supposed to be making a G0 move.
> >
> > Thats is why the majority of us use a smart card, which in some
> > cases can be its own breakoutboard too.  Such is the case with all
> > but one of my machines, and that one can only move around 8ipm
> > cutting and 10 or so at full throttle. My stuff with more std
> > interfaces can move 40 to 75 ipm without missing a beat.
> >
> > Also associated in the speed limits are the limited drive currants
> > available from the parport. Getting 10 mills out to drive the
> > stepper drivers doesn't turn on the opto's all that fast, so that
> > contributes to the speed limit. Most of the accessory boards can
> > sink 24 mills, easily turning the led on in the isolation circuitry
> > of the driver.
> >
> > But the most telling in using a parport with direct drive is the
> > pulse jitter, as indicated by running latency-test for half an hour
> > or so. Every time you see a spike/raise in the displayed time of the
> > base-thread, thats a long step, and the motor may well stop while
> > waiting for the next step, but when the cpu, even running an rtai
> > kernel, will then try to catch up when it does get free of whatever
> > it was doing, but the motor isn't able to re-accelerate that fast so
> > it stalls.  And everytime it stalls, you have a dam

Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Valerio Bellizzomi]

Sorry for the confusion, I meant to ask if this configuration is good
for running with the SPINx1

loadrt pwmgen output_type=0
addf pwmgen.update servo-thread
addf pwmgen.make-pulses base-thread
net spindle-speed-cmd motion.spindle-speed-out => pwmgen.0.value
net spindle-on motion.spindle-on => pwmgen.0.enable
net spindle-pwm pwmgen.0.pwm => parport.0.pin-09-out
# Set the spindle's top speed in RPM
setp pwmgen.0.scale 1800


with say the scale set to 6000 rpm, it is going to work as is ?


Thanks


On Tue, 2017-02-21 at 16:54 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Tuesday 21 February 2017 12:15:22 Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> 
> > From the LinuxCNC manual I see an example :
> >
> >
> > loadrt pwmgen output_type=0
> > addf pwmgen.update servo-thread
> > addf pwmgen.make-pulses base-thread
> > net spindle-speed-cmd motion.spindle-speed-out => pwmgen.0.value
> > net spindle-on motion.spindle-on => pwmgen.0.enable
> > net spindle-pwm pwmgen.0.pwm => parport.0.pin-09-out
> > # Set the spindle's top speed in RPM
> > setp pwmgen.0.scale 1800
> >
> >
> > is this sufficient to get the spindle going ?
> >
> This would be for purely software driving, which generally cannot drive a 
> machine to anything resembling high speeds when it is supposed to be 
> making a G0 move.
> 
> Thats is why the majority of us use a smart card, which in some cases can 
> be its own breakoutboard too.  Such is the case with all but one of my 
> machines, and that one can only move around 8ipm cutting and 10 or so at 
> full throttle. My stuff with more std interfaces can move 40 to 75 ipm 
> without missing a beat.

> Also associated in the speed limits are the limited drive currants 
> available from the parport. Getting 10 mills out to drive the stepper 
> drivers doesn't turn on the opto's all that fast, so that contributes to 
> the speed limit. Most of the accessory boards can sink 24 mills, easily 
> turning the led on in the isolation circuitry of the driver.
> 
> But the most telling in using a parport with direct drive is the pulse 
> jitter, as indicated by running latency-test for half an hour or so. 
> Every time you see a spike/raise in the displayed time of the 
> base-thread, thats a long step, and the motor may well stop while 
> waiting for the next step, but when the cpu, even running an rtai 
> kernel, will then try to catch up when it does get free of whatever it 
> was doing, but the motor isn't able to re-accelerate that fast so it 
> stalls.  And everytime it stalls, you have a damaged or wrecked part.
> 
> That makes spending the sheckels for a smart card interface very much 
> desirable. If that interface can also be the BoB, thats a desirable 
> economy. There are several mesa cards that meet that criteria, and I'm 
> fond of the 7i90HD, which gives you a big pile of very steady heartbeat 
> signals, as high as 8 stepper drivers, 4 pwm generators, and 4 encoder 
> inputs.  What you do not use, can be removed from the load 
> configuration, and those pins then used as General Purpose I/O, for a 
> grand total of 72 of them. The 7i90 can be driven by a std EPP capable 
> printer port, (yours may or may not be EPP capable, and mainboard 
> manuals do not always state the truth) or by an SPI port. 
> 
> So please reconsider how you are going to interface to the machinery. 
> Getting some isolation between the computer and its jitter pulse 
> generation is something you'll never regret.
> 
> Where on this ball of rock and water are you?
> 
> > On Tue, 2017-02-21 at 11:26 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > On Tuesday 21 February 2017 07:33:28 Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > > > Hello,
> > > > the SpinX1 manual says it acts like a potentiometer, the figure on
> > > > page C-13 of the VFD's manual shows the VIA contact to be
> > > > connected to an external potentiometer
> > > >
> > > > is that the right  way to connect the spinx1 ?
> > >
> > > Yes, it has silk screened names. Its a totally isolated thing on the
> > > VFD side. The vfd  should have a common, a nominally 12 volt plus
> > > source when measured to the common.
> > >
> > > The fwd and rev signals are separated by the spinx1, and generally
> > > on the VFD side respond to a closure to this common to enable it to
> > > respond to the voltage from the "arm" of the potentiometer.  On the
> > > computer side, you will need to dedicate on pin of the BoB as an
> > > enable signal and wire it up in the hal file.
> > >
> > > You will need, if using the mesa cards, something that faintly
> > > resembles this to get the LCNC speed signal hooked to the spinx1:
> > > ##
> > > # Hook pwmgen.00 to the spindle speed and set for PDM output #
> > > ##
> > > setphm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.pwmgen.00.scale
> > > [SPINDLE_9]PWMGEN_S_SCALE setp   
> > > hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.pwmgen.pwm_frequency   
> > > [SPINDLE_9]PWMGEN_S_FREQ #setp  
> > > hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOAR

Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 21 February 2017 12:15:22 Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:

> From the LinuxCNC manual I see an example :
>
>
> loadrt pwmgen output_type=0
> addf pwmgen.update servo-thread
> addf pwmgen.make-pulses base-thread
> net spindle-speed-cmd motion.spindle-speed-out => pwmgen.0.value
> net spindle-on motion.spindle-on => pwmgen.0.enable
> net spindle-pwm pwmgen.0.pwm => parport.0.pin-09-out
> # Set the spindle's top speed in RPM
> setp pwmgen.0.scale 1800
>
>
> is this sufficient to get the spindle going ?
>
This would be for purely software driving, which generally cannot drive a 
machine to anything resembling high speeds when it is supposed to be 
making a G0 move.

Thats is why the majority of us use a smart card, which in some cases can 
be its own breakoutboard too.  Such is the case with all but one of my 
machines, and that one can only move around 8ipm cutting and 10 or so at 
full throttle. My stuff with more std interfaces can move 40 to 75 ipm 
without missing a beat.

Also associated in the speed limits are the limited drive currants 
available from the parport. Getting 10 mills out to drive the stepper 
drivers doesn't turn on the opto's all that fast, so that contributes to 
the speed limit. Most of the accessory boards can sink 24 mills, easily 
turning the led on in the isolation circuitry of the driver.

But the most telling in using a parport with direct drive is the pulse 
jitter, as indicated by running latency-test for half an hour or so. 
Every time you see a spike/raise in the displayed time of the 
base-thread, thats a long step, and the motor may well stop while 
waiting for the next step, but when the cpu, even running an rtai 
kernel, will then try to catch up when it does get free of whatever it 
was doing, but the motor isn't able to re-accelerate that fast so it 
stalls.  And everytime it stalls, you have a damaged or wrecked part.

That makes spending the sheckels for a smart card interface very much 
desirable. If that interface can also be the BoB, thats a desirable 
economy. There are several mesa cards that meet that criteria, and I'm 
fond of the 7i90HD, which gives you a big pile of very steady heartbeat 
signals, as high as 8 stepper drivers, 4 pwm generators, and 4 encoder 
inputs.  What you do not use, can be removed from the load 
configuration, and those pins then used as General Purpose I/O, for a 
grand total of 72 of them. The 7i90 can be driven by a std EPP capable 
printer port, (yours may or may not be EPP capable, and mainboard 
manuals do not always state the truth) or by an SPI port. 

So please reconsider how you are going to interface to the machinery. 
Getting some isolation between the computer and its jitter pulse 
generation is something you'll never regret.

Where on this ball of rock and water are you?

> On Tue, 2017-02-21 at 11:26 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Tuesday 21 February 2017 07:33:28 Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > > Hello,
> > > the SpinX1 manual says it acts like a potentiometer, the figure on
> > > page C-13 of the VFD's manual shows the VIA contact to be
> > > connected to an external potentiometer
> > >
> > > is that the right  way to connect the spinx1 ?
> >
> > Yes, it has silk screened names. Its a totally isolated thing on the
> > VFD side. The vfd  should have a common, a nominally 12 volt plus
> > source when measured to the common.
> >
> > The fwd and rev signals are separated by the spinx1, and generally
> > on the VFD side respond to a closure to this common to enable it to
> > respond to the voltage from the "arm" of the potentiometer.  On the
> > computer side, you will need to dedicate on pin of the BoB as an
> > enable signal and wire it up in the hal file.
> >
> > You will need, if using the mesa cards, something that faintly
> > resembles this to get the LCNC speed signal hooked to the spinx1:
> > ##
> > # Hook pwmgen.00 to the spindle speed and set for PDM output #
> > ##
> > setphm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.pwmgen.00.scale
> > [SPINDLE_9]PWMGEN_S_SCALE setp   
> > hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.pwmgen.pwm_frequency   
> > [SPINDLE_9]PWMGEN_S_FREQ #setp  
> > hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.pwmgen.pwm_freq
> > [SPINDLE_9]PWMGEN_S_FREQ setp   
> > hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.pwmgen.00.output-type  
> > [SPINDLE_9]PWMGEN_OUTPUT_TYPE setp   
> > hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.pwmgen.pdm_frequency   
> > [SPINDLE_9]PDMGEN_PDM_FREQUENCY
> >
> > The data being referred in the right hand argument to needs assigned
> > in the [SPINDLE_9] section of your .ini file.
> >
> > Now, I don't see below, what breakout you are using so I'll just
> > copy and paste from my setup. Keep in mind that these will NOT match
> > yours, but will show you approximately what you need.
> > First, setup the enable signal which in my case uses a gpio
> > pin in my 7i90 card.
> >
> > First, you need to set the output pins for all axis's use

Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Valerio Bellizzomi]

>From the LinuxCNC manual I see an example :


loadrt pwmgen output_type=0
addf pwmgen.update servo-thread
addf pwmgen.make-pulses base-thread
net spindle-speed-cmd motion.spindle-speed-out => pwmgen.0.value
net spindle-on motion.spindle-on => pwmgen.0.enable
net spindle-pwm pwmgen.0.pwm => parport.0.pin-09-out
# Set the spindle's top speed in RPM
setp pwmgen.0.scale 1800


is this sufficient to get the spindle going ?



On Tue, 2017-02-21 at 11:26 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Tuesday 21 February 2017 07:33:28 Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> 
> > Hello,
> > the SpinX1 manual says it acts like a potentiometer, the figure on
> > page C-13 of the VFD's manual shows the VIA contact to be connected to
> > an external potentiometer
> >
> > is that the right  way to connect the spinx1 ?
> 
> Yes, it has silk screened names. Its a totally isolated thing on the VFD 
> side. The vfd  should have a common, a nominally 12 volt plus source when 
> measured to the common.
> 
> The fwd and rev signals are separated by the spinx1, and generally on the 
> VFD side respond to a closure to this common to enable it to respond to 
> the voltage from the "arm" of the potentiometer.  On the computer side, 
> you will need to dedicate on pin of the BoB as an enable signal and wire
> it up in the hal file.
> 
> You will need, if using the mesa cards, something that faintly resembles 
> this to get the LCNC speed signal hooked to the spinx1:
> ##
> # Hook pwmgen.00 to the spindle speed and set for PDM output #
> ##
> setphm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.pwmgen.00.scale 
> [SPINDLE_9]PWMGEN_S_SCALE
> setphm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.pwmgen.pwm_frequency
> [SPINDLE_9]PWMGEN_S_FREQ
> #setp   hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.pwmgen.pwm_freq 
> [SPINDLE_9]PWMGEN_S_FREQ
> setphm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.pwmgen.00.output-type   
> [SPINDLE_9]PWMGEN_OUTPUT_TYPE
> setphm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.pwmgen.pdm_frequency
> [SPINDLE_9]PDMGEN_PDM_FREQUENCY
> 
> The data being referred in the right hand argument to needs assigned 
> in the [SPINDLE_9] section of your .ini file.
> 
> Now, I don't see below, what breakout you are using so I'll just copy and
> paste from my setup. Keep in mind that these will NOT match yours, but 
> will show you approximately what you need.
> First, setup the enable signal which in my case uses a gpio
> pin in my 7i90 card.
> 
> First, you need to set the output pins for all axis's used as inverting and 
> true low,
> 
> # Turn pulses to true low, opendrain so they are closures to ground.
> # stepgen 00
> setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.000.invert_output 1
> setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.000.is_opendrain 1
> setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.001.invert_output 1
> setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.001.is_opendrain 1
> # stepgen 01
> setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.002.invert_output 1
> setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.002.is_opendrain 1
> setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.003.invert_output 1
> setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.003.is_opendrain 1
> # stepgen 03
> setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.018.invert_output 1
> setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.018.is_opendrain 1
> setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.019.invert_output 1
> setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.019.is_opendrain 1
> 
> # the above gpio numbers correspond to the outputs of the canned
> code in the FPGA's installed firmware for the stepgens I use, and
> the PDM signal from the pwmgen module in the cards firmware.
> 
> And the reason I keep calling it PDM is that is a ditherless
> method of getting quite smooth speed signals from a basically
> digital circuit.  That is done as the modules are enabled in 
> the .ini file by a line grouping like this:
> 
> [SPINDLE_9]
> # 16.6 is close to 100 revs per click in low belt position
> PWMGEN_S_SCALE  = 16.6
> # make it run in PDM mode, is self smoothing then
> PWMGEN_S_FREQ   =   1
> PWMGEN_OUTPUT_TYPE  =   3
> PDMGEN_PDM_FREQUENCY=   1
> 
> # the SCALE above sets it to run the spindle at 100 rpm per
> click on the + button, when the backgear is not engaged and
> the belt is in the lowest speed grooves of the pulleys. All of 
> these settings are of course your personal choices. PDM_FREQUENCY
> is a balance between update rate and quantization of the speed change.
> A lower frequency is higher resolution but it should be fast enough
> so the motor speed doesn't ripple. 1 is a good choice for me
> with my fake vfd..
> 
> sets emcmot.00.enable FALSE
> net emcmot.00.enable <= joint.0.amp-enable-out
> net emcmot.00.enable => hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.stepgen.03.enable
> Thats not all of that stuff, but you'll get the idea.
> 
> A gpio pin is an input unless told otherwise, and all signals
> are closures to ground, with 5 volts fed to the + terminals on
> the axis motor drivers, with your step/dirs connected to the - terminal
> on the drivers

Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Valerio Bellizzomi]

Thanks Gene,
I don't have a breakout board, I have 3 Step Motor Drives and a DB25
connector where I am going to solder 25 tiny wires. I have 25 tiny wires
out of a stripped parallel cable.

The first time I attempted to solder one DB25 connector, I had
inappropriate wires, too big to enter the small hole in the pins, so I
had to sacrifice one parallel cable to get wires with appropriate
section.





On Tue, 2017-02-21 at 11:26 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Tuesday 21 February 2017 07:33:28 Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> 
> > Hello,
> > the SpinX1 manual says it acts like a potentiometer, the figure on
> > page C-13 of the VFD's manual shows the VIA contact to be connected to
> > an external potentiometer
> >
> > is that the right  way to connect the spinx1 ?
> 
> Yes, it has silk screened names. Its a totally isolated thing on the VFD 
> side. The vfd  should have a common, a nominally 12 volt plus source when 
> measured to the common.
> 
> The fwd and rev signals are separated by the spinx1, and generally on the 
> VFD side respond to a closure to this common to enable it to respond to 
> the voltage from the "arm" of the potentiometer.  On the computer side, 
> you will need to dedicate on pin of the BoB as an enable signal and wire
> it up in the hal file.
> 
> You will need, if using the mesa cards, something that faintly resembles 
> this to get the LCNC speed signal hooked to the spinx1:
> ##
> # Hook pwmgen.00 to the spindle speed and set for PDM output #
> ##
> setphm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.pwmgen.00.scale 
> [SPINDLE_9]PWMGEN_S_SCALE
> setphm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.pwmgen.pwm_frequency
> [SPINDLE_9]PWMGEN_S_FREQ
> #setp   hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.pwmgen.pwm_freq 
> [SPINDLE_9]PWMGEN_S_FREQ
> setphm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.pwmgen.00.output-type   
> [SPINDLE_9]PWMGEN_OUTPUT_TYPE
> setphm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.pwmgen.pdm_frequency
> [SPINDLE_9]PDMGEN_PDM_FREQUENCY
> 
> The data being referred in the right hand argument to needs assigned 
> in the [SPINDLE_9] section of your .ini file.
> 
> Now, I don't see below, what breakout you are using so I'll just copy and
> paste from my setup. Keep in mind that these will NOT match yours, but 
> will show you approximately what you need.
> First, setup the enable signal which in my case uses a gpio
> pin in my 7i90 card.
> 
> First, you need to set the output pins for all axis's used as inverting and 
> true low,
> 
> # Turn pulses to true low, opendrain so they are closures to ground.
> # stepgen 00
> setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.000.invert_output 1
> setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.000.is_opendrain 1
> setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.001.invert_output 1
> setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.001.is_opendrain 1
> # stepgen 01
> setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.002.invert_output 1
> setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.002.is_opendrain 1
> setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.003.invert_output 1
> setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.003.is_opendrain 1
> # stepgen 03
> setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.018.invert_output 1
> setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.018.is_opendrain 1
> setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.019.invert_output 1
> setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.019.is_opendrain 1
> 
> # the above gpio numbers correspond to the outputs of the canned
> code in the FPGA's installed firmware for the stepgens I use, and
> the PDM signal from the pwmgen module in the cards firmware.
> 
> And the reason I keep calling it PDM is that is a ditherless
> method of getting quite smooth speed signals from a basically
> digital circuit.  That is done as the modules are enabled in 
> the .ini file by a line grouping like this:
> 
> [SPINDLE_9]
> # 16.6 is close to 100 revs per click in low belt position
> PWMGEN_S_SCALE  = 16.6
> # make it run in PDM mode, is self smoothing then
> PWMGEN_S_FREQ   =   1
> PWMGEN_OUTPUT_TYPE  =   3
> PDMGEN_PDM_FREQUENCY=   1
> 
> # the SCALE above sets it to run the spindle at 100 rpm per
> click on the + button, when the backgear is not engaged and
> the belt is in the lowest speed grooves of the pulleys. All of 
> these settings are of course your personal choices. PDM_FREQUENCY
> is a balance between update rate and quantization of the speed change.
> A lower frequency is higher resolution but it should be fast enough
> so the motor speed doesn't ripple. 1 is a good choice for me
> with my fake vfd..
> 
> sets emcmot.00.enable FALSE
> net emcmot.00.enable <= joint.0.amp-enable-out
> net emcmot.00.enable => hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.stepgen.03.enable
> Thats not all of that stuff, but you'll get the idea.
> 
> A gpio pin is an input unless told otherwise, and all signals
> are closures to ground, with 5 volts fed to the + terminals on
> the axis motor drivers, with your step/dirs connected to the - terminal
> on the drivers control plug.
> 
> ##

Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 21 February 2017 07:33:28 Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:

> Hello,
> the SpinX1 manual says it acts like a potentiometer, the figure on
> page C-13 of the VFD's manual shows the VIA contact to be connected to
> an external potentiometer
>
> is that the right  way to connect the spinx1 ?

Yes, it has silk screened names. Its a totally isolated thing on the VFD 
side. The vfd  should have a common, a nominally 12 volt plus source when 
measured to the common.

The fwd and rev signals are separated by the spinx1, and generally on the 
VFD side respond to a closure to this common to enable it to respond to 
the voltage from the "arm" of the potentiometer.  On the computer side, 
you will need to dedicate on pin of the BoB as an enable signal and wire
it up in the hal file.

You will need, if using the mesa cards, something that faintly resembles 
this to get the LCNC speed signal hooked to the spinx1:
##
# Hook pwmgen.00 to the spindle speed and set for PDM output #
##
setphm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.pwmgen.00.scale 
[SPINDLE_9]PWMGEN_S_SCALE
setphm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.pwmgen.pwm_frequency[SPINDLE_9]PWMGEN_S_FREQ
#setp   hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.pwmgen.pwm_freq [SPINDLE_9]PWMGEN_S_FREQ
setphm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.pwmgen.00.output-type   
[SPINDLE_9]PWMGEN_OUTPUT_TYPE
setphm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.pwmgen.pdm_frequency
[SPINDLE_9]PDMGEN_PDM_FREQUENCY

The data being referred in the right hand argument to needs assigned 
in the [SPINDLE_9] section of your .ini file.

Now, I don't see below, what breakout you are using so I'll just copy and
paste from my setup. Keep in mind that these will NOT match yours, but 
will show you approximately what you need.
First, setup the enable signal which in my case uses a gpio
pin in my 7i90 card.

First, you need to set the output pins for all axis's used as inverting and 
true low,

# Turn pulses to true low, opendrain so they are closures to ground.
# stepgen 00
setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.000.invert_output 1
setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.000.is_opendrain 1
setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.001.invert_output 1
setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.001.is_opendrain 1
# stepgen 01
setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.002.invert_output 1
setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.002.is_opendrain 1
setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.003.invert_output 1
setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.003.is_opendrain 1
# stepgen 03
setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.018.invert_output 1
setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.018.is_opendrain 1
setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.019.invert_output 1
setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.019.is_opendrain 1

# the above gpio numbers correspond to the outputs of the canned
code in the FPGA's installed firmware for the stepgens I use, and
the PDM signal from the pwmgen module in the cards firmware.

And the reason I keep calling it PDM is that is a ditherless
method of getting quite smooth speed signals from a basically
digital circuit.  That is done as the modules are enabled in 
the .ini file by a line grouping like this:

[SPINDLE_9]
# 16.6 is close to 100 revs per click in low belt position
PWMGEN_S_SCALE  = 16.6
# make it run in PDM mode, is self smoothing then
PWMGEN_S_FREQ   =   1
PWMGEN_OUTPUT_TYPE  =   3
PDMGEN_PDM_FREQUENCY=   1

# the SCALE above sets it to run the spindle at 100 rpm per
click on the + button, when the backgear is not engaged and
the belt is in the lowest speed grooves of the pulleys. All of 
these settings are of course your personal choices. PDM_FREQUENCY
is a balance between update rate and quantization of the speed change.
A lower frequency is higher resolution but it should be fast enough
so the motor speed doesn't ripple. 1 is a good choice for me
with my fake vfd..

sets emcmot.00.enable FALSE
net emcmot.00.enable <= joint.0.amp-enable-out
net emcmot.00.enable => hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.stepgen.03.enable
Thats not all of that stuff, but you'll get the idea.

A gpio pin is an input unless told otherwise, and all signals
are closures to ground, with 5 volts fed to the + terminals on
the axis motor drivers, with your step/dirs connected to the - terminal
on the drivers control plug.

#
# Setup vfd drive enable yadda yadda, building down from top down forward first 
#
# The SpinX1 only needs pwm and dir I thought, but needs an ena(ble) too.
#
# start with SpinX1's dir which has to be converted to an output of the correct 
polarity
setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.071.is_output 1
setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.071.invert_output 1
setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.071.is_opendrain 1
# this is the green jumper wire from the SpinX1's FWD, to 7i90-p3-47
net reverse_vfd <= motion.sp

Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Valerio Bellizzomi]

Hello,
the SpinX1 manual says it acts like a potentiometer, the figure on page
C-13 of the VFD's manual shows the VIA contact to be connected to an
external potentiometer

is that the right  way to connect the spinx1 ?





On Thu, 2017-02-16 at 08:56 -0800, Kirk Wallace wrote:
> On 02/16/2017 03:37 AM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> ... snip
> > the VFD is a Toshiba VFS15-4037PL-W, it has a Forward input, a Reverse
> > input, and a current speed input (and alternatively a 0-10V input).
> > There isn't an enable input. I do not need the reverse so it should be
> > two parallel pins, one for forward and one for speed.
> ... snip
> 
> I found a manual here:
> https://inverterdrive.com/file/Toshiba-VFS15-User-Manual
> 
> I usually first check the overview graphic which seems to be on page 
> B-4. I see the F terminal which could just be shorted to common to 
> activate it. The speed potentiometer is shown too. PWM could simulate 
> that. I also see theRS485 connector. I did a search in the document for 
> "485" and found page C-4, which shows some control options; terminal 
> (relay), keypad, RS485 (Modbus?), CAN (cool), communication(what the 
> heck?). Just below are some speed setting options. This should be a nice 
> VFD.
> 
> A little farther down from B-4 are the I/O circuit options. Looking at 
> the F entry, it basically says shorting the F terminal to CC will start 
> forward rotation. You can use a parallel port pin to control a small 
> solid state relay or opto-isolator. It just needs to tolerate 24 Volts 
> on the output.
> 
> It looks like the VIA (voltage, input, analog?) is a speed input. The 
> same parallel port pin to solid state relay or opto-isolator as F above 
> may be used, except it only needs 10 Volt tolerence. Terminal PP is the 
> 10 Volt source (CC common isn't needed, most likely). The signal from 
> the parallel port pin should use PWM or PDM.
> 
> If you have a BOB (Break Out Board), post a make/model and/or picture or 
> other information. It may be useful for the above connections.
> 
> It looks like page D-3 is a good place to start VFD programing.
> 
> The above may be wrong or missing some information, so study the manual 
> and decide for yourself what to do. I would get a mains input noise 
> filter right of the bat, so you don't have to chase down weird issues 
> while trying to learn how to use your VFD. Hmm... It looks like your VFD 
> already has a built-in noise filter.
> 
> 




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Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Valerio Bellizzomi]

My order from mesaus already shipped.
Thanks.


On Sun, 2017-02-19 at 08:12 -0600, John Thornton wrote:
> I have them in stock... and offer the best prices for international 
> shipping.
> 
> https://mesaus.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=65&product_id=91
> 
> JT
> 
> On 2/19/2017 7:08 AM, andy pugh wrote:
> > On 16 February 2017 at 09:20, Valerio Bellizzomi  wrote:
> >> I guess it will take a month or so as I live in Italy
> >
> > Next time, consider:
> > http://www.shop.cncmonster.de/LinuxCNC/Interface-Karten/Servointerface/SPINx1-PWM::375.html
> > http://eusurplus.com/index.php?route=common/home (though none in stock)
> > http://www.duzi.cz/shop_cnc/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1 (also none 
> > listed)
> >
> >
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[John Thornton]

I have them in stock... and offer the best prices for international 
shipping.

https://mesaus.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=65&product_id=91

JT

On 2/19/2017 7:08 AM, andy pugh wrote:
> On 16 February 2017 at 09:20, Valerio Bellizzomi  wrote:
>> I guess it will take a month or so as I live in Italy
>
> Next time, consider:
> http://www.shop.cncmonster.de/LinuxCNC/Interface-Karten/Servointerface/SPINx1-PWM::375.html
> http://eusurplus.com/index.php?route=common/home (though none in stock)
> http://www.duzi.cz/shop_cnc/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1 (also none 
> listed)
>
>


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Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[andy pugh]

On 16 February 2017 at 09:20, Valerio Bellizzomi  wrote:
> I guess it will take a month or so as I live in Italy


Next time, consider:
http://www.shop.cncmonster.de/LinuxCNC/Interface-Karten/Servointerface/SPINx1-PWM::375.html
http://eusurplus.com/index.php?route=common/home (though none in stock)
http://www.duzi.cz/shop_cnc/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1 (also none listed)


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designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
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Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Valerio Bellizzomi]

On Thu, 2017-02-16 at 08:56 -0800, Kirk Wallace wrote:
> On 02/16/2017 03:37 AM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> ... snip
> > the VFD is a Toshiba VFS15-4037PL-W, it has a Forward input, a Reverse
> > input, and a current speed input (and alternatively a 0-10V input).
> > There isn't an enable input. I do not need the reverse so it should be
> > two parallel pins, one for forward and one for speed.
> ... snip
> 
> I found a manual here:
> https://inverterdrive.com/file/Toshiba-VFS15-User-Manual
> 
> I usually first check the overview graphic which seems to be on page 
> B-4. I see the F terminal which could just be shorted to common to 
> activate it. The speed potentiometer is shown too. PWM could simulate 
> that. I also see theRS485 connector. I did a search in the document for 
> "485" and found page C-4, which shows some control options; terminal 
> (relay), keypad, RS485 (Modbus?), CAN (cool), communication(what the 
> heck?). Just below are some speed setting options. This should be a nice 
> VFD.
> 
> A little farther down from B-4 are the I/O circuit options. Looking at 
> the F entry, it basically says shorting the F terminal to CC will start 
> forward rotation. You can use a parallel port pin to control a small 
> solid state relay or opto-isolator. It just needs to tolerate 24 Volts 
> on the output.

Yes that is what I said, there is no Enable, just Forward and Reverse,
to be connected to CC 


> It looks like the VIA (voltage, input, analog?) is a speed input. The 
> same parallel port pin to solid state relay or opto-isolator as F above 
> may be used, except it only needs 10 Volt tolerence. Terminal PP is the 
> 10 Volt source (CC common isn't needed, most likely). The signal from 
> the parallel port pin should use PWM or PDM.

>From the manual's figure (page C-13), the VIA is for an external
potentiometer, or for a voltage input, the VIB is for a voltage input,
and VIC is for current input. The input mode is programmable with the
cnod/fnod parameters on the vfd

> If you have a BOB (Break Out Board), post a make/model and/or picture or 
> other information. It may be useful for the above connections.
> 
> It looks like page D-3 is a good place to start VFD programing.
> 
> The above may be wrong or missing some information, so study the manual 
> and decide for yourself what to do. I would get a mains input noise 
> filter right of the bat, so you don't have to chase down weird issues 
> while trying to learn how to use your VFD. Hmm... It looks like your VFD 
> already has a built-in noise filter.

It has a selectable noise filter (on/off)





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Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Kirk Wallace]

On 02/16/2017 03:37 AM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
... snip
> the VFD is a Toshiba VFS15-4037PL-W, it has a Forward input, a Reverse
> input, and a current speed input (and alternatively a 0-10V input).
> There isn't an enable input. I do not need the reverse so it should be
> two parallel pins, one for forward and one for speed.
... snip

I found a manual here:
https://inverterdrive.com/file/Toshiba-VFS15-User-Manual

I usually first check the overview graphic which seems to be on page 
B-4. I see the F terminal which could just be shorted to common to 
activate it. The speed potentiometer is shown too. PWM could simulate 
that. I also see theRS485 connector. I did a search in the document for 
"485" and found page C-4, which shows some control options; terminal 
(relay), keypad, RS485 (Modbus?), CAN (cool), communication(what the 
heck?). Just below are some speed setting options. This should be a nice 
VFD.

A little farther down from B-4 are the I/O circuit options. Looking at 
the F entry, it basically says shorting the F terminal to CC will start 
forward rotation. You can use a parallel port pin to control a small 
solid state relay or opto-isolator. It just needs to tolerate 24 Volts 
on the output.

It looks like the VIA (voltage, input, analog?) is a speed input. The 
same parallel port pin to solid state relay or opto-isolator as F above 
may be used, except it only needs 10 Volt tolerence. Terminal PP is the 
10 Volt source (CC common isn't needed, most likely). The signal from 
the parallel port pin should use PWM or PDM.

If you have a BOB (Break Out Board), post a make/model and/or picture or 
other information. It may be useful for the above connections.

It looks like page D-3 is a good place to start VFD programing.

The above may be wrong or missing some information, so study the manual 
and decide for yourself what to do. I would get a mains input noise 
filter right of the bat, so you don't have to chase down weird issues 
while trying to learn how to use your VFD. Hmm... It looks like your VFD 
already has a built-in noise filter.


-- 
Kirk Wallace
http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/

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Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Valerio Bellizzomi]

On Wed, 2017-02-15 at 14:06 -0800, Kirk Wallace wrote:
> On 02/15/2017 10:36 AM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > On Wed, 2017-02-15 at 10:22 -0800, Kirk Wallace wrote:
> >> On 02/15/2017 09:25 AM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> >>> Hello,
> >>>
> >>> I have an Toshiba vfd which has a current signal input (max 20mA), is
> >>> that compatible with linuxcnc to be wired to S gcode command ?
> 
> 
> > I am not aware of any interface hardware , I thought to wire one
> > parallel pin to the vfd, but I might be wrong.
> >
> > suggestions?
> 
> If you reply with the Toshiba model number, we could give you better 
> information. Pictures and overview of your project would be even better.
> 
> Basic direction an speed control can be done with just a parallel port 
> and a few electronic parts. Here is an example:
> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/examples/spindle.html#_pwm_spindle_speed
> 
> The PWM bits create an analog signal using a digital parallel port pin 
> and switching it on/off in a way that effectively acts like an analog 
> signal. This would go to your VFD analog speed or frequency input. This 
> is only needed if you want LinuxCNC to control VFD speed. The example 
> shows the PWM signal being connected to the parallel port pin 9.
> 
> Sections 3 and 4 below the spindle section (2) connect the basic digital 
> signals to parallel port pins 14, 16, and 17.
> 
> Usually the VFD inputs are opto-isolators which are usually a floating 
> LED and current limit resistor circuit. Common parallel port buffer 
> boards are good for driving these inputs. A breakout board with 
> opto-isolators is not needed. A nice thing about parallel ports is that 
> add-on cards are cheap and you can add as many ports as your computer 
> slots can hold. The down side is that parallel ports are slow, so the 
> PWM signal will not have high resolution.
> 


the VFD is a Toshiba VFS15-4037PL-W, it has a Forward input, a Reverse
input, and a current speed input (and alternatively a 0-10V input).
There isn't an enable input. I do not need the reverse so it should be
two parallel pins, one for forward and one for speed.




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Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Valerio Bellizzomi]

On Thu, 2017-02-16 at 02:40 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Thursday 16 February 2017 02:20:30 Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, 2017-02-15 at 19:13 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > On Wednesday 15 February 2017 15:12:17 Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > > > On Wed, 2017-02-15 at 14:32 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > > > On Wednesday 15 February 2017 14:13:17 Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > > > > > On Wed, 2017-02-15 at 12:45 -0600, dragon wrote:
> > > > > > > The 20ma control circuit on the VFD is an analog control,
> > > > > > > where as the parallel port pin is a digital (on/off) signal.
> > > > > > > You will need some sort of hardware interface between the
> > > > > > > two to do a digital to analog conversion.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > is there a list of supported hardware, that I could buy on
> > > > > > ebay ? I was looking at
> > > > > > http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?LinuxCNC_Supported_Ha
> > > > > >rdwa re
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have already 3 stepper drivers mounted in a metal box with
> > > > > > their power supply, I would need only a small interface for
> > > > > > the spindle.
> > > > >
> > > > > Using software stepping? I'd still use a pwmgen module in the
> > > > > computer to drive the vfd, but I'd put a SpinX1, from Mesa
> > > > > between them, for the noise isolation (vfd's are noisy
> > > > > electrically), and the control is quite linear. I would put the
> > > > > pwmgen in the PDMgen mode, see the man page as that removes the
> > > > > need to dither the pulse width because each step is fixed, the
> > > > > dither keeps it at the requested speed. But with PDM, you don't
> > > > > need the dither.  With SW pwmgens, I'd choose a refresh rate
> > > > > below the servothread by about half, the vfd shouldn't mind.
> > > >
> > > > I have checked out the mesa store, it is a problem for me that
> > > > they do not have paypal transactions among their choices for
> > > > payment, I do not own a credit card
> > > >
> > > > is there another way to purchase say a spinx1 or equivalent board
> > > > ?
> > >
> > > There are actually 2 web stores, one by Peter C. Wallace, out on the
> > > left coast, and Big John Thortons's site in southern Missouri. I am
> > > pretty sure either would take a check or money order. Big John ships
> > > the same day if he has it, 3 days to West Virginia is the worst he's
> > > done to me. I would imagine your money order would not be much
> > > slower.  Another day perhaps.
> > >
> > > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> >
> > Thanks Gene, I have already ordered one spinx1 here
> >
> >
> > http://mesaus.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=91
> >
> > I guess it will take a month or so as I live in Italy
> >
> Thats a bummer. Maurius L., or Andy, is there not someone on your side of 
> the pond that could get it there faster for when the next time comes up?
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett


I have to actually build the machine, so I can wait that long time,
meanwhile it will be hard metal work




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Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Peter Blodow]

Am 16.02.2017 08:40, schrieb Gene Heskett:
> On Thursday 16 February 2017 02:20:30 Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 2017-02-15 at 19:13 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
>>> On Wednesday 15 February 2017 15:12:17 Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
 On Wed, 2017-02-15 at 14:32 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Wednesday 15 February 2017 14:13:17 Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
>> On Wed, 2017-02-15 at 12:45 -0600, dragon wrote:
>>> The 20ma control circuit on the VFD is an analog control,
>>> where as the parallel port pin is a digital (on/off) signal.
>>> You will need some sort of hardware interface between the
>>> two to do a digital to analog conversion.
>> is there a list of supported hardware, that I could buy on
>> ebay ? I was looking at
>> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?LinuxCNC_Supported_Ha
>> rdwa re
>>
>> I have already 3 stepper drivers mounted in a metal box with
>> their power supply, I would need only a small interface for
>> the spindle.
> Using software stepping? I'd still use a pwmgen module in the
> computer to drive the vfd, but I'd put a SpinX1, from Mesa
> between them, for the noise isolation (vfd's are noisy
> electrically), and the control is quite linear. I would put the
> pwmgen in the PDMgen mode, see the man page as that removes the
> need to dither the pulse width because each step is fixed, the
> dither keeps it at the requested speed. But with PDM, you don't
> need the dither.  With SW pwmgens, I'd choose a refresh rate
> below the servothread by about half, the vfd shouldn't mind.
 I have checked out the mesa store, it is a problem for me that
 they do not have paypal transactions among their choices for
 payment, I do not own a credit card

 is there another way to purchase say a spinx1 or equivalent board
 ?
>>> There are actually 2 web stores, one by Peter C. Wallace, out on the
>>> left coast, and Big John Thortons's site in southern Missouri. I am
>>> pretty sure either would take a check or money order. Big John ships
>>> the same day if he has it, 3 days to West Virginia is the worst he's
>>> done to me. I would imagine your money order would not be much
>>> slower.  Another day perhaps.
>>>
>>> Cheers, Gene Heskett
>> Thanks Gene, I have already ordered one spinx1 here
>>
>>
>> http://mesaus.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=91
>>
>> I guess it will take a month or so as I live in Italy
>>
> Thats a bummer. Maurius L., or Andy, is there not someone on your side of
> the pond that could get it there faster for when the next time comes up?
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
There used to be an internet shop in southern Germany, I forgot the 
address. That's EU, so shipping would last a few days at maximum. PCW 
should know, for he provided it to me some years ago.

Peter

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Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 16 February 2017 02:20:30 Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:

> On Wed, 2017-02-15 at 19:13 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Wednesday 15 February 2017 15:12:17 Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > > On Wed, 2017-02-15 at 14:32 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday 15 February 2017 14:13:17 Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > > > > On Wed, 2017-02-15 at 12:45 -0600, dragon wrote:
> > > > > > The 20ma control circuit on the VFD is an analog control,
> > > > > > where as the parallel port pin is a digital (on/off) signal.
> > > > > > You will need some sort of hardware interface between the
> > > > > > two to do a digital to analog conversion.
> > > > >
> > > > > is there a list of supported hardware, that I could buy on
> > > > > ebay ? I was looking at
> > > > > http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?LinuxCNC_Supported_Ha
> > > > >rdwa re
> > > > >
> > > > > I have already 3 stepper drivers mounted in a metal box with
> > > > > their power supply, I would need only a small interface for
> > > > > the spindle.
> > > >
> > > > Using software stepping? I'd still use a pwmgen module in the
> > > > computer to drive the vfd, but I'd put a SpinX1, from Mesa
> > > > between them, for the noise isolation (vfd's are noisy
> > > > electrically), and the control is quite linear. I would put the
> > > > pwmgen in the PDMgen mode, see the man page as that removes the
> > > > need to dither the pulse width because each step is fixed, the
> > > > dither keeps it at the requested speed. But with PDM, you don't
> > > > need the dither.  With SW pwmgens, I'd choose a refresh rate
> > > > below the servothread by about half, the vfd shouldn't mind.
> > >
> > > I have checked out the mesa store, it is a problem for me that
> > > they do not have paypal transactions among their choices for
> > > payment, I do not own a credit card
> > >
> > > is there another way to purchase say a spinx1 or equivalent board
> > > ?
> >
> > There are actually 2 web stores, one by Peter C. Wallace, out on the
> > left coast, and Big John Thortons's site in southern Missouri. I am
> > pretty sure either would take a check or money order. Big John ships
> > the same day if he has it, 3 days to West Virginia is the worst he's
> > done to me. I would imagine your money order would not be much
> > slower.  Another day perhaps.
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
>
> Thanks Gene, I have already ordered one spinx1 here
>
>
> http://mesaus.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=91
>
> I guess it will take a month or so as I live in Italy
>
Thats a bummer. Maurius L., or Andy, is there not someone on your side of 
the pond that could get it there faster for when the next time comes up?

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Valerio Bellizzomi]

On Wed, 2017-02-15 at 19:13 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Wednesday 15 February 2017 15:12:17 Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, 2017-02-15 at 14:32 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > On Wednesday 15 February 2017 14:13:17 Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > > > On Wed, 2017-02-15 at 12:45 -0600, dragon wrote:
> > > > > The 20ma control circuit on the VFD is an analog control, where
> > > > > as the parallel port pin is a digital (on/off) signal. You will
> > > > > need some sort of hardware interface between the two to do a
> > > > > digital to analog conversion.
> > > >
> > > > is there a list of supported hardware, that I could buy on ebay ?
> > > > I was looking at
> > > > http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?LinuxCNC_Supported_Hardwa
> > > >re
> > > >
> > > > I have already 3 stepper drivers mounted in a metal box with their
> > > > power supply, I would need only a small interface for the spindle.
> > >
> > > Using software stepping? I'd still use a pwmgen module in the
> > > computer to drive the vfd, but I'd put a SpinX1, from Mesa between
> > > them, for the noise isolation (vfd's are noisy electrically), and
> > > the control is quite linear. I would put the pwmgen in the PDMgen
> > > mode, see the man page as that removes the need to dither the pulse
> > > width because each step is fixed, the dither keeps it at the
> > > requested speed. But with PDM, you don't need the dither.  With SW
> > > pwmgens, I'd choose a refresh rate below the servothread by about
> > > half, the vfd shouldn't mind.
> >
> > I have checked out the mesa store, it is a problem for me that they do
> > not have paypal transactions among their choices for payment, I do not
> > own a credit card
> >
> > is there another way to purchase say a spinx1 or equivalent board ?
> >
> There are actually 2 web stores, one by Peter C. Wallace, out on the left 
> coast, and Big John Thortons's site in southern Missouri. I am pretty 
> sure either would take a check or money order. Big John ships the same 
> day if he has it, 3 days to West Virginia is the worst he's done to me. 
> I would imagine your money order would not be much slower.  Another day 
> perhaps.
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett


Thanks Gene, I have already ordered one spinx1 here


http://mesaus.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=91

I guess it will take a month or so as I live in Italy





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Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 15 February 2017 15:12:17 Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:

> On Wed, 2017-02-15 at 14:32 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Wednesday 15 February 2017 14:13:17 Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > > On Wed, 2017-02-15 at 12:45 -0600, dragon wrote:
> > > > The 20ma control circuit on the VFD is an analog control, where
> > > > as the parallel port pin is a digital (on/off) signal. You will
> > > > need some sort of hardware interface between the two to do a
> > > > digital to analog conversion.
> > >
> > > is there a list of supported hardware, that I could buy on ebay ?
> > > I was looking at
> > > http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?LinuxCNC_Supported_Hardwa
> > >re
> > >
> > > I have already 3 stepper drivers mounted in a metal box with their
> > > power supply, I would need only a small interface for the spindle.
> >
> > Using software stepping? I'd still use a pwmgen module in the
> > computer to drive the vfd, but I'd put a SpinX1, from Mesa between
> > them, for the noise isolation (vfd's are noisy electrically), and
> > the control is quite linear. I would put the pwmgen in the PDMgen
> > mode, see the man page as that removes the need to dither the pulse
> > width because each step is fixed, the dither keeps it at the
> > requested speed. But with PDM, you don't need the dither.  With SW
> > pwmgens, I'd choose a refresh rate below the servothread by about
> > half, the vfd shouldn't mind.
>
> I have checked out the mesa store, it is a problem for me that they do
> not have paypal transactions among their choices for payment, I do not
> own a credit card
>
> is there another way to purchase say a spinx1 or equivalent board ?
>
There are actually 2 web stores, one by Peter C. Wallace, out on the left 
coast, and Big John Thortons's site in southern Missouri. I am pretty 
sure either would take a check or money order. Big John ships the same 
day if he has it, 3 days to West Virginia is the worst he's done to me. 
I would imagine your money order would not be much slower.  Another day 
perhaps.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Kirk Wallace]

On 02/15/2017 10:36 AM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> On Wed, 2017-02-15 at 10:22 -0800, Kirk Wallace wrote:
>> On 02/15/2017 09:25 AM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I have an Toshiba vfd which has a current signal input (max 20mA), is
>>> that compatible with linuxcnc to be wired to S gcode command ?


> I am not aware of any interface hardware , I thought to wire one
> parallel pin to the vfd, but I might be wrong.
>
> suggestions?

If you reply with the Toshiba model number, we could give you better 
information. Pictures and overview of your project would be even better.

Basic direction an speed control can be done with just a parallel port 
and a few electronic parts. Here is an example:
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/examples/spindle.html#_pwm_spindle_speed

The PWM bits create an analog signal using a digital parallel port pin 
and switching it on/off in a way that effectively acts like an analog 
signal. This would go to your VFD analog speed or frequency input. This 
is only needed if you want LinuxCNC to control VFD speed. The example 
shows the PWM signal being connected to the parallel port pin 9.

Sections 3 and 4 below the spindle section (2) connect the basic digital 
signals to parallel port pins 14, 16, and 17.

Usually the VFD inputs are opto-isolators which are usually a floating 
LED and current limit resistor circuit. Common parallel port buffer 
boards are good for driving these inputs. A breakout board with 
opto-isolators is not needed. A nice thing about parallel ports is that 
add-on cards are cheap and you can add as many ports as your computer 
slots can hold. The down side is that parallel ports are slow, so the 
PWM signal will not have high resolution.

-- 
Kirk Wallace
http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/

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Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Valerio Bellizzomi]

On Wed, 2017-02-15 at 22:57 +0200, Andrew wrote:
> 2017-02-15 22:46 GMT+02:00 Valerio Bellizzomi:
> 
> >
> > Thanks, I just placed an order
> >
> > btw, my spindle does not have an encoder so I will not do threading and
> > I do not need a 'reverse' signal, only a 'forward' signal, and the
> > enable signal is going to be wired together with axis enable and
> > connected to the Amplifier Enable pin, so that a single amplifier enable
> > signal commands the axes and spindle.
> >
> 
> I'm not sure why you want to wire them together. There are many situations
> when I want my axes enabled but spindle disabled.


it is only a question of space, if I have enought pins left empty I
could wire them separately




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Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Andrew]

2017-02-15 22:46 GMT+02:00 Valerio Bellizzomi:

>
> Thanks, I just placed an order
>
> btw, my spindle does not have an encoder so I will not do threading and
> I do not need a 'reverse' signal, only a 'forward' signal, and the
> enable signal is going to be wired together with axis enable and
> connected to the Amplifier Enable pin, so that a single amplifier enable
> signal commands the axes and spindle.
>

I'm not sure why you want to wire them together. There are many situations
when I want my axes enabled but spindle disabled.
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Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Valerio Bellizzomi]

On Wed, 2017-02-15 at 22:22 +0200, Andrew wrote:
> 2017-02-15 22:12 GMT+02:00 Valerio Bellizzomi:
> 
> > is there another way to purchase say a spinx1 or equivalent board ?
> >
> 
> Sure
> http://mesaus.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=91
> 
> Andrew


Thanks, I just placed an order

btw, my spindle does not have an encoder so I will not do threading and
I do not need a 'reverse' signal, only a 'forward' signal, and the
enable signal is going to be wired together with axis enable and
connected to the Amplifier Enable pin, so that a single amplifier enable
signal commands the axes and spindle.



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Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Andrew]

2017-02-15 22:12 GMT+02:00 Valerio Bellizzomi:

> is there another way to purchase say a spinx1 or equivalent board ?
>

Sure
http://mesaus.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=91

Andrew
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Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Valerio Bellizzomi]

On Wed, 2017-02-15 at 14:32 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Wednesday 15 February 2017 14:13:17 Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, 2017-02-15 at 12:45 -0600, dragon wrote:
> > > The 20ma control circuit on the VFD is an analog control, where as
> > > the parallel port pin is a digital (on/off) signal. You will need
> > > some sort of hardware interface between the two to do a digital to
> > > analog conversion.
> >
> > is there a list of supported hardware, that I could buy on ebay ?
> > I was looking at
> > http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?LinuxCNC_Supported_Hardware
> >
> > I have already 3 stepper drivers mounted in a metal box with their
> > power supply, I would need only a small interface for the spindle.
> 
> Using software stepping? I'd still use a pwmgen module in the computer to 
> drive the vfd, but I'd put a SpinX1, from Mesa between them, for the 
> noise isolation (vfd's are noisy electrically), and the control is quite 
> linear. I would put the pwmgen in the PDMgen mode, see the man page as 
> that removes the need to dither the pulse width because each step is 
> fixed, the dither keeps it at the requested speed. But with PDM, you 
> don't need the dither.  With SW pwmgens, I'd choose a refresh rate below 
> the servothread by about half, the vfd shouldn't mind.


I have checked out the mesa store, it is a problem for me that they do
not have paypal transactions among their choices for payment, I do not
own a credit card

is there another way to purchase say a spinx1 or equivalent board ?




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Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 15 February 2017 14:13:17 Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:

> On Wed, 2017-02-15 at 12:45 -0600, dragon wrote:
> > The 20ma control circuit on the VFD is an analog control, where as
> > the parallel port pin is a digital (on/off) signal. You will need
> > some sort of hardware interface between the two to do a digital to
> > analog conversion.
>
> is there a list of supported hardware, that I could buy on ebay ?
> I was looking at
> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?LinuxCNC_Supported_Hardware
>
> I have already 3 stepper drivers mounted in a metal box with their
> power supply, I would need only a small interface for the spindle.

Using software stepping? I'd still use a pwmgen module in the computer to 
drive the vfd, but I'd put a SpinX1, from Mesa between them, for the 
noise isolation (vfd's are noisy electrically), and the control is quite 
linear. I would put the pwmgen in the PDMgen mode, see the man page as 
that removes the need to dither the pulse width because each step is 
fixed, the dither keeps it at the requested speed. But with PDM, you 
don't need the dither.  With SW pwmgens, I'd choose a refresh rate below 
the servothread by about half, the vfd shouldn't mind.
>
> > On 02/15/2017 12:36 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > > On Wed, 2017-02-15 at 10:22 -0800, Kirk Wallace wrote:
> > >> On 02/15/2017 09:25 AM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > >>> Hello,
> > >>>
> > >>> I have an Toshiba vfd which has a current signal input (max
> > >>> 20mA), is that compatible with linuxcnc to be wired to S gcode
> > >>> command ?
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Thanks.
> > >>
> > >> Briefly, mostly yes.
> > >>
> > >> The S word has an associated HALpin. This HALpin can be HAL
> > >> connected to another HALpin that handles the hardware that can
> > >> affect your VFD speed
> > >>
> > >> function. So:
> > >>> S word --> S word HALpin --> 20ma HALpin/20ma HALcomponent --
> > >>> 20ma hardware ^^ g-code/MDI -- .hal configuration file -- HAL
> > >>> .comp component file -- wire from hardware interface to VFD
> > >>
> > >> In other words, LinuxCNC already has a S word HALpin that you can
> > >> use to connect your 20ma interface to. You would need to decide
> > >> what hardware you want to use and look for or make the HAL
> > >> component (software).
> > >
> > > I am not aware of any interface hardware , I thought to wire one
> > > parallel pin to the vfd, but I might be wrong.
> > >
> > > suggestions?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
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> > 
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 15 February 2017 13:45:38 dragon wrote:

> The 20ma control circuit on the VFD is an analog control, where as the
> parallel port pin is a digital (on/off) signal. You will need some
> sort of hardware interface between the two to do a digital to analog
> conversion.

I am currently running one of the Chinese fakes you see a gross of on 
ebay at any one time for small change over a $100 bill.  No Modbus at 
all anyplace in it, just an assortment of analog and dir sigs needed.

However, its opto-isolated, so for linear speed responses that fails 
rather badly at the low pwmgen percentages because the opto-isolators 
are too slow. But with a Mesa SpinX1 ($18) between them, I have quite 
linear speed control, and the SpinX1 helps to isolate the VFD's 
switching noises too. I haven't fully optimized the VFD yet, but I can 
reverse a 40lb chuck turning 200 revs in about 1 rev after making a 
locking collar so the chuck won't unscrew itself. It will do it even 
faster. That will do rigid tapping rather nicely, so I'm a happy camper.

Motor is a 1hp 3 phase 230 volt I'd bought two of at a recycle facility 
here in town for a $50 bill (and no, I wasn't armed), lathe is an old 
Sheldon 11x36. This VFD is a 1.5hp rated model.  Seems quite 
bulletproof. I am not saying this is the only way, but it works for me.

And I am running it all with a Raspberry pi 3b, and a Mesa 7i90 
interface.

I am not thru building the lathe to fully operational yet, and progress 
is slow ATM, with my afternoons tied up visiting the wife, who is 
currently in rehab about 20 miles away, getting used to a replacement 
hip.

> On 02/15/2017 12:36 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > On Wed, 2017-02-15 at 10:22 -0800, Kirk Wallace wrote:
> >> On 02/15/2017 09:25 AM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> >>> Hello,
> >>>
> >>> I have an Toshiba vfd which has a current signal input (max 20mA),
> >>> is that compatible with linuxcnc to be wired to S gcode command ?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Thanks.
> >>
> >> Briefly, mostly yes.
> >>
> >> The S word has an associated HALpin. This HALpin can be HAL
> >> connected to another HALpin that handles the hardware that can
> >> affect your VFD speed
> >>
> >> function. So:
> >>> S word --> S word HALpin --> 20ma HALpin/20ma HALcomponent -- 20ma
> >>> hardware ^^ g-code/MDI -- .hal configuration file -- HAL .comp
> >>> component file -- wire from hardware interface to VFD
> >>
> >> In other words, LinuxCNC already has a S word HALpin that you can
> >> use to connect your 20ma interface to. You would need to decide
> >> what hardware you want to use and look for or make the HAL
> >> component (software).
> >
> > I am not aware of any interface hardware , I thought to wire one
> > parallel pin to the vfd, but I might be wrong.
> >
> > suggestions?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 
> >-- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's
> > most engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Valerio Bellizzomi]

On Wed, 2017-02-15 at 12:45 -0600, dragon wrote:
> The 20ma control circuit on the VFD is an analog control, where as the
> parallel port pin is a digital (on/off) signal. You will need some sort
> of hardware interface between the two to do a digital to analog conversion.


is there a list of supported hardware, that I could buy on ebay ?
I was looking at 
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?LinuxCNC_Supported_Hardware

I have already 3 stepper drivers mounted in a metal box with their power
supply, I would need only a small interface for the spindle


> 
> 
> On 02/15/2017 12:36 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > On Wed, 2017-02-15 at 10:22 -0800, Kirk Wallace wrote:
> >> On 02/15/2017 09:25 AM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> >>> Hello,
> >>>
> >>> I have an Toshiba vfd which has a current signal input (max 20mA), is
> >>> that compatible with linuxcnc to be wired to S gcode command ?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Thanks.
> >>
> >> Briefly, mostly yes.
> >>
> >> The S word has an associated HALpin. This HALpin can be HAL connected to 
> >> another HALpin that handles the hardware that can affect your VFD speed 
> >> function. So:
> >>
> >>> S word --> S word HALpin --> 20ma HALpin/20ma HALcomponent -- 20ma 
> >>> hardware
> >>> ^^ g-code/MDI -- .hal configuration file -- HAL .comp component file -- 
> >>> wire from hardware interface to VFD
> >>
> >> In other words, LinuxCNC already has a S word HALpin that you can use to 
> >> connect your 20ma interface to. You would need to decide what hardware 
> >> you want to use and look for or make the HAL component (software).
> >>
> > 
> > 
> > I am not aware of any interface hardware , I thought to wire one
> > parallel pin to the vfd, but I might be wrong.
> > 
> > suggestions?
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --
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> 
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Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[dragon]

The 20ma control circuit on the VFD is an analog control, where as the
parallel port pin is a digital (on/off) signal. You will need some sort
of hardware interface between the two to do a digital to analog conversion.




On 02/15/2017 12:36 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> On Wed, 2017-02-15 at 10:22 -0800, Kirk Wallace wrote:
>> On 02/15/2017 09:25 AM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I have an Toshiba vfd which has a current signal input (max 20mA), is
>>> that compatible with linuxcnc to be wired to S gcode command ?
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>
>> Briefly, mostly yes.
>>
>> The S word has an associated HALpin. This HALpin can be HAL connected to 
>> another HALpin that handles the hardware that can affect your VFD speed 
>> function. So:
>>
>>> S word --> S word HALpin --> 20ma HALpin/20ma HALcomponent -- 20ma hardware
>>> ^^ g-code/MDI -- .hal configuration file -- HAL .comp component file -- 
>>> wire from hardware interface to VFD
>>
>> In other words, LinuxCNC already has a S word HALpin that you can use to 
>> connect your 20ma interface to. You would need to decide what hardware 
>> you want to use and look for or make the HAL component (software).
>>
> 
> 
> I am not aware of any interface hardware , I thought to wire one
> parallel pin to the vfd, but I might be wrong.
> 
> suggestions?
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Valerio Bellizzomi]

On Wed, 2017-02-15 at 10:22 -0800, Kirk Wallace wrote:
> On 02/15/2017 09:25 AM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > I have an Toshiba vfd which has a current signal input (max 20mA), is
> > that compatible with linuxcnc to be wired to S gcode command ?
> >
> >
> > Thanks.
> 
> Briefly, mostly yes.
> 
> The S word has an associated HALpin. This HALpin can be HAL connected to 
> another HALpin that handles the hardware that can affect your VFD speed 
> function. So:
> 
> > S word --> S word HALpin --> 20ma HALpin/20ma HALcomponent -- 20ma hardware
> > ^^ g-code/MDI -- .hal configuration file -- HAL .comp component file -- 
> > wire from hardware interface to VFD
> 
> In other words, LinuxCNC already has a S word HALpin that you can use to 
> connect your 20ma interface to. You would need to decide what hardware 
> you want to use and look for or make the HAL component (software).
> 


I am not aware of any interface hardware , I thought to wire one
parallel pin to the vfd, but I might be wrong.

suggestions?




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Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Kirk Wallace]

On 02/15/2017 09:25 AM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I have an Toshiba vfd which has a current signal input (max 20mA), is
> that compatible with linuxcnc to be wired to S gcode command ?
>
>
> Thanks.

Briefly, mostly yes.

The S word has an associated HALpin. This HALpin can be HAL connected to 
another HALpin that handles the hardware that can affect your VFD speed 
function. So:

> S word --> S word HALpin --> 20ma HALpin/20ma HALcomponent -- 20ma hardware
> ^^ g-code/MDI -- .hal configuration file -- HAL .comp component file -- wire 
> from hardware interface to VFD

In other words, LinuxCNC already has a S word HALpin that you can use to 
connect your 20ma interface to. You would need to decide what hardware 
you want to use and look for or make the HAL component (software).

-- 
Kirk Wallace
http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/

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Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Ed]

On 02/15/2017 11:25 AM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I have an Toshiba vfd which has a current signal input (max 20mA), is
> that compatible with linuxcnc to be wired to S gcode command ?
>
>
> Thanks.
>
I am using a VFS11 series. It can use 20ma or 10v plus direction for 
signals. What are you planning to drive it with? (Interface hardware)

Ed.


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