Re: [EVDL] EVLN: David-Crosby's Tesla @55mph hit injured jogger in SoCal
On 03/24/2015 03:49 AM, brucedp5 via EV wrote: http://www.mercurynews.com/california/ci_27771749/chp-rocker-crosby-hits-jogger-car-california-road CHP: Rocker Crosby hits jogger with car on California road The Associated Press 03/23/2015 Mike Nickerson: This reminds me what poor visibility the Tesla has. The windshield seems a bit foggy all the the time. Glare from the chrome dash trim is distracting in certain situations; I've put some electrical tape over some of mine. But the worst is the big frame both in front and behind the passenger door. Making left turns seems especially hazardous; I've had several near misses where I failed to notice approaching traffic. I THINK I've now trained myself to look twice. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] New Tesla Owner
Ooooh... Welcome to the club! MW On 24 Mar 2015, at 01:56, Mike Nickerson via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: I finally jumped in with both feet and bought a used demonstration Tesla Model S. It is a 2014 model that was built just before the dual motor and self driving features. It was replaced as a demo when all the demonstration vehicles were upgraded to P85d models. So far, I have driven it for one day. It is an amazing car. Very sophisticated in an understated way. Incredible performance. Best of all, it is bright red; the best color for a car like that. Mike ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] Article: Electric cars could boost CO2 emissions in some provinces
Not sure if the list has seen this story but I suspect there are flaws in the analysis. Not being an engineer and not having access to the calculations I can't tell for sure. Peter Flipsen Jr == Trying to go green by replacing your gas guzzler with an electric car? In some provinces, that may actually be worse for the environment, a University of Toronto researcher says. http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/electric-cars-could-boost-co2-emissions-in-some-provinces-1.3007409 Sent via the CBC News Android App https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ca.cbc.mobile.android.cbcnewsandroidwebview -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150324/173e6d0f/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] How to build a very efficient EV for road use with solar panels.
On Mar 24, 2015, at 2:55 PM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: I'd like to run two mid sized motors. One on each rear wheel. That's a very ambitious design. You need a controller that can coordinate the power for each wheel to ensure the exact same amount of power on straight-and-level pavement, which is enough of a challenge...and then the controller needs to serve as a differential to vary the power and speed depending on direction of travel, side loading from aerodynamics, slick patches on the pavement on only one side, and so on. Failure to do so can very easily result in a rather unstable vehicle prone to crashing. And that's the sort of design whose computer programming would take a team of Tesla engineers a fair amount of time to come up with from scratch. Much easier would be a single motor (or a pair of siamese motors if that's what gets you the power you need) connected to a traditional mechanical differential, with the axles connected to the differential. I'm sure there've got to be low-weight open differentials readily available that would be just fine for such an application. I want to build a skeleton and use cut plastic or Kevlar as body panels. Kevlar? Seems an unusual choice of materials. Is this supposed to be a bulletproof Popemobile in addition to everything else? If you're looking for something lightweight that's easy to shape, start with fiberglass for your prototypes and then carbon fiber when you know what you're doing. If, on the other hand, you're planning on building this with flat panels...scratch your plans and start all over. The aerodynamics will eat you alive. Flat panels might be okay for a prototype for the chassis and drivetrain design, but you're going to need some serious aerodynamic engineering chops to get something in the power consumption range you're talking about. The design is going to have to resemble something from Burt Rutan far more than anything that's ever come out of Detroit. And...skeleton and panels implies a frame design, which implies a lot of weight. You'll be much more successful with a monocoque design in which the body iis/i the frame. b -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150324/097d99ab/attachment.pgp ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Article: Electric cars could boost CO2 emissions in some provinces
On Mar 24, 2015, at 3:36 PM, Michael Ross via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: So which is better? 90% efficient for EVs versus 20% efficient for ICE. ...and that assumes that EVs are forever stuck with getting their electricity from coal-fired plants. I'd bet a suitable beverage that coal represents the minority of electricity going into EVs today, due in no small part to the early adopters being overwhelmingly likely to have solar panels on their rooftops. That is, a great many EVs on the road right now really are solar-powered cars with truly zero CO2 emissions. Plus, basically everybody in the Southwest who charges overnight...is driving a nuclear-powered car with the electricity coming from Palo Verde. Questions of environmental friendliness aside, nuclear power is free of CO2 emissions as well. Anybody who tries to paint EVs as horrible CO2 polluters is a shill for the Koch Brothers, whether wittingly or otherwise. b -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150324/7278eedd/attachment.pgp ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] How to build a very efficient EV for road use with solar panels.
Lawrence, I think you will be able to work with bicycle tires. There are some very stout ones and you need strength. Consider: http://www.amazon.com/Maxxis-Hookworm-Urban-Bike-Tire/dp/B0021G9ZIE To bad they don't make 24 tires. 24 wheels will be stronger than 26 Pump up the Hookworms to 1i0psi and they will be LRR. Build the wheels using off road rims like: http://sun-ringle.com/bmx/rims/rhyno-lite-xl/ And consider tandem gear. Your steered wheels may require a hub that can be supported on one side. Hubs that take a larger, stronger axle (1/2) are used on trikes. Greenspeed (in Oz) has proprietary hubs that are extra strong because how the spoke holes are oriented. http://www.greenspeed.com.au/gtt.html They also have very nice proprietary rims but they are smaller diameter and you probably could not get hard durable tires for them. I should warn you that bicycle tires don't have the life of motorized cycle tires. I can't help you there, but it is worth looking into motorcycle tires. It could be very expensive with bicycle tires. You will pay minimum $30 a tire and they may not get you 5000 miles. Small road worthy motorcycles might be a good place to look for sturdy tires. There used to be little skinny tires on 200cc Ducatis, Moto Morinis, Yamahas, and so on. The cafe racer market, more of a Euro thing than US. The wheels and hubs for those might be a good idea for investigation also. On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 5:55 PM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: My first step in building my solar EV is to make an efficient vehicle. I'm looking at 3 wheels first to avoid problems licencing a car losing weight..however when I talked to the students that made Stella they said four wheels wasn't the disadvantage you might think it is. It's more about airflow over and under the body. They got a fairly wide design to only use 55wh per mile at freeway speeds. Is there a motor out there that is affordable that will work? I'd like to run two mid sized motors. One on each rear wheel. The 3 wheeler will tilt. I'd like to get 1 hp solar panel (750 watts) on top. I'll be using a chromoly frame. Not sure what to use for tires. Bicycle possibly. Probably motorcycle like Honda 90 but I've been warned that motorcycle tires are not lrr. I'd like to use a 10kw battery pack and have the vehicle weigh around 400 pounds. I want to build a skeleton and use cut plastic or Kevlar as body panels. I'll be making screw down points all over the vehicle. Lawrence Rhodes -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150324/af93d329/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. Thomas A. Edison http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. *Warren Buffet* Michael E. Ross (919) 585-6737 Land (919) 576-0824 https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones Google Phone (919) 631-1451 Cell michael.e.r...@gmail.com michael.e.r...@gmail.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150324/2f6a9c59/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Article: Electric cars could boost CO2 emissions in some provinces
All you need is one fact. Electricity is generated to make gasoline. It takes around 5 kW ours of electricity to refine 1 gallon of gasoline. An electric car can travel 10 to 20 miles on this amount of energy. Sent from my iPad On Mar 24, 2015, at 5:36 PM, Michael Ross via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: I did not see the CO2 output of fossil fuel vehicles included. That would be a telling ommision since cars are only about 20% efficient. The coal plants can burn coal pretty cleanly, but from a CO2 point of view not so good, EVs are far more efficient. So which is better? 90% efficient for EVs versus 20% efficient for ICE. I don't know what the efficiency of the coal power - delivered is like, or what the efficiency of gas or diesel delivered would be. But those should be part of the discussion. CO2 is clean, though still problematic. Coal has all sorts of downside we usually ignore (I live in NC where we have coal ash issues). I declare the article to be a hack job. They should get a good science writer to handle it. On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 5:52 PM, SLPinfo.org via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Not sure if the list has seen this story but I suspect there are flaws in the analysis. Not being an engineer and not having access to the calculations I can't tell for sure. Peter Flipsen Jr == Trying to go green by replacing your gas guzzler with an electric car? In some provinces, that may actually be worse for the environment, a University of Toronto researcher says. http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/electric-cars-could-boost-co2-emissions-in-some-provinces-1.3007409 Sent via the CBC News Android App https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ca.cbc.mobile.android.cbcnewsandroidwebview -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150324/173e6d0f/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. Thomas A. Edison http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. *Warren Buffet* Michael E. Ross (919) 585-6737 Land (919) 576-0824 https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones Google Phone (919) 631-1451 Cell michael.e.r...@gmail.com michael.e.r...@gmail.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150324/54330714/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Article: Electric cars could boost CO2 emissions in some provinces
On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 7:09 PM, Ben Goren b...@trumpetpower.com wrote: On Mar 24, 2015, at 3:36 PM, Michael Ross via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: So which is better? 90% efficient for EVs versus 20% efficient for ICE. ...and that assumes that EVs are forever stuck with getting their electricity from coal-fired plants. I'd bet a suitable beverage that coal represents the minority of electricity going into EVs today, due in no small part to the early adopters being overwhelmingly likely to have solar panels on their rooftops. The efficiency numbers I gave are not inclusive of the source efficiency. They are for the vehicles only. So it has nothing to do with the coal fired plants. The source efficiency needs to be part of the discussion. Electric power transmission is pretty efficient, and coal plants are also not so bad. Much better than ICE + pumped and refined petroleum. The next wave of EV adoption will not be as likely to have solar PV unless the various the states and fed do more subsidies. PV is not equal in cost to any other power source without subsidies. Without the 65% I goet back I would not have been able to justify it on an economic basis. http://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/index.cfm?page=coal_reserves Based on U.S. coal production for 2012, the U.S. estimated recoverable coal reserves represent enough coal to last 253 years. http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=427t=3 What is U.S. electricity generation by energy source? In 2013, the United States generated about 4,058 billion kilowatthours of electricity. About 67% of the electricity generated was from fossil fuel (coal, natural gas, and petroleum), with 39% attributed from coal. In 2013, energy sources and percent share of total electricity generation were - Coal 39% - Natural Gas 27% - Nuclear 19% - Hydropower 7% - Other Renewable 6% - Biomass 1.48% - Geothermal 0.41% - Solar 0.23% - Wind 4.13% - Petroleum 1% - Other Gases 1% The way is not clear yet. -- To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. Thomas A. Edison http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. *Warren Buffet* Michael E. Ross (919) 585-6737 Land (919) 576-0824 https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones Google Phone (919) 631-1451 Cell michael.e.r...@gmail.com michael.e.r...@gmail.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150324/9630baf2/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Article: Electric cars could boost CO2 emissions in some provinces
I did not see the CO2 output of fossil fuel vehicles included. That would be a telling ommision since cars are only about 20% efficient. The coal plants can burn coal pretty cleanly, but from a CO2 point of view not so good, EVs are far more efficient. So which is better? 90% efficient for EVs versus 20% efficient for ICE. I don't know what the efficiency of the coal power - delivered is like, or what the efficiency of gas or diesel delivered would be. But those should be part of the discussion. CO2 is clean, though still problematic. Coal has all sorts of downside we usually ignore (I live in NC where we have coal ash issues). I declare the article to be a hack job. They should get a good science writer to handle it. On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 5:52 PM, SLPinfo.org via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Not sure if the list has seen this story but I suspect there are flaws in the analysis. Not being an engineer and not having access to the calculations I can't tell for sure. Peter Flipsen Jr == Trying to go green by replacing your gas guzzler with an electric car? In some provinces, that may actually be worse for the environment, a University of Toronto researcher says. http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/electric-cars-could-boost-co2-emissions-in-some-provinces-1.3007409 Sent via the CBC News Android App https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ca.cbc.mobile.android.cbcnewsandroidwebview -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150324/173e6d0f/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. Thomas A. Edison http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. *Warren Buffet* Michael E. Ross (919) 585-6737 Land (919) 576-0824 https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones Google Phone (919) 631-1451 Cell michael.e.r...@gmail.com michael.e.r...@gmail.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150324/54330714/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] How to build a very efficient EV for road use with solar panels.
My first step in building my solar EV is to make an efficient vehicle. I'm looking at 3 wheels first to avoid problems licencing a car losing weight..however when I talked to the students that made Stella they said four wheels wasn't the disadvantage you might think it is. It's more about airflow over and under the body. They got a fairly wide design to only use 55wh per mile at freeway speeds. Is there a motor out there that is affordable that will work? I'd like to run two mid sized motors. One on each rear wheel. The 3 wheeler will tilt. I'd like to get 1 hp solar panel (750 watts) on top. I'll be using a chromoly frame. Not sure what to use for tires. Bicycle possibly. Probably motorcycle like Honda 90 but I've been warned that motorcycle tires are not lrr. I'd like to use a 10kw battery pack and have the vehicle weigh around 400 pounds. I want to build a skeleton and use cut plastic or Kevlar as body panels. I'll be making screw down points all over the vehicle. Lawrence Rhodes -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150324/af93d329/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Packing peanuts make batteries
I think the article leaked out 7 days early :) -- Original Message -- From: Ben Goren via EV ev@lists.evdl.org To: tomw tomofreno2...@yahoo.com; Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: 24-Mar-15 7:41:10 AM Subject: Re: [EVDL] Packing peanuts make batteries On Mar 24, 2015, at 7:21 AM, tomw via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: http://www.purdue.edu/newsroom/releases/2015/Q1/new-processing-technology-converts-packing-peanuts-to-battery-components.html There's another point worth noting. If this ever makes it to mass production, I'm reasonably sure the factory won't be using recycled packing peanuts salvaged from Amazon orders. Instead, the factories will get deliveries of newly-manufactured polystyrene (or whatever) to use as feedstock, pre-formed into whatever shape is the best fit for the machinery. There's just too much chance of contamination from consumer-recycled packaging materials to risk damaging a high-energy electronics assembly line. Imagine, for example, a cat who thought the box with the packaging materials would make a great litterbox, and somebody helpfully still sending it to recycling b -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150324/d26ddbc3/attachment.pgp ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Problem with EV Album?
It seems to be loading ok for me. On March 24, 2015 1:27:18 AM MDT, Cor van de Water via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: For some reason the evalbum.com site is not loading for me. Other have that problem or is it a local issue? Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless office +1 408 383 7626 Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP +31 87 784 1130 private: cvandewater.info www.proxim.com This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation. If you received this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. Any unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of this message is prohibited. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Packing peanuts make batteries
On Mar 24, 2015, at 7:21 AM, tomw via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: http://www.purdue.edu/newsroom/releases/2015/Q1/new-processing-technology-converts-packing-peanuts-to-battery-components.html There's another point worth noting. If this ever makes it to mass production, I'm reasonably sure the factory won't be using recycled packing peanuts salvaged from Amazon orders. Instead, the factories will get deliveries of newly-manufactured polystyrene (or whatever) to use as feedstock, pre-formed into whatever shape is the best fit for the machinery. There's just too much chance of contamination from consumer-recycled packaging materials to risk damaging a high-energy electronics assembly line. Imagine, for example, a cat who thought the box with the packaging materials would make a great litterbox, and somebody helpfully still sending it to recycling b -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150324/d26ddbc3/attachment.pgp ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Article: Electric cars could boost CO2 emissions in some provinces
I live in Nova Scotia, one of those provinces that lie above that 600 tonne C02 emissions mentioned in that article. While the last lines of that article reads that it is government responsibility to fix it many other versions I read that don't mention this, which will lead to lots of V8 powered truck owners to use as banter why their rig is better on the environment than a Volt or Tesla, very dismaying. The local power company here has been mandated to clean up their act and they have made strides to do so, switching a lot of their coal burning facilities to natural gas and employing more wind farms and hydro. What the government hasn't been doing here is not giving any incentives for EVs (our province has 0 rebates), no grants for charging stations and low feed in rates for individual solar/wind generation. Electric Mobility Canada is planning on hosting their conference here this year and there was an ask for putting in a few charging stations ahead of it. Well that was met with backlash as being just a burden for a tax increase! I find it funny they will host it here with how far behind our province is :-( On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 8:57 PM, Michael Ross via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 7:09 PM, Ben Goren b...@trumpetpower.com wrote: On Mar 24, 2015, at 3:36 PM, Michael Ross via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: So which is better? 90% efficient for EVs versus 20% efficient for ICE. ...and that assumes that EVs are forever stuck with getting their electricity from coal-fired plants. I'd bet a suitable beverage that coal represents the minority of electricity going into EVs today, due in no small part to the early adopters being overwhelmingly likely to have solar panels on their rooftops. The efficiency numbers I gave are not inclusive of the source efficiency. They are for the vehicles only. So it has nothing to do with the coal fired plants. The source efficiency needs to be part of the discussion. Electric power transmission is pretty efficient, and coal plants are also not so bad. Much better than ICE + pumped and refined petroleum. The next wave of EV adoption will not be as likely to have solar PV unless the various the states and fed do more subsidies. PV is not equal in cost to any other power source without subsidies. Without the 65% I goet back I would not have been able to justify it on an economic basis. http://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/index.cfm?page=coal_reserves Based on U.S. coal production for 2012, the U.S. estimated recoverable coal reserves represent enough coal to last 253 years. http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=427t=3 What is U.S. electricity generation by energy source? In 2013, the United States generated about 4,058 billion kilowatthours of electricity. About 67% of the electricity generated was from fossil fuel (coal, natural gas, and petroleum), with 39% attributed from coal. In 2013, energy sources and percent share of total electricity generation were - Coal 39% - Natural Gas 27% - Nuclear 19% - Hydropower 7% - Other Renewable 6% - Biomass 1.48% - Geothermal 0.41% - Solar 0.23% - Wind 4.13% - Petroleum 1% - Other Gases 1% The way is not clear yet. -- To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. Thomas A. Edison http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. *Warren Buffet* Michael E. Ross (919) 585-6737 Land (919) 576-0824 https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones Google Phone (919) 631-1451 Cell michael.e.r...@gmail.com michael.e.r...@gmail.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150324/9630baf2/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150324/22fc45ab/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Article: Electric cars could boost CO2 emissions in some provinces
This Ha-ha, surprise, EVs are worse game has been around for years. Bruce, Lee, and some of the other old-timers here may remember the mid-90s report attributed to a once-respectable university (Carnegie-Mellon maybe?). It was a great hue and cry about how the GM Impact / EV1 batteries would destroy the world with lead emissions worse than leaded gasoline's. They sort of forgot to account for recycling of lead batteries. Oops! That's an anti-EV salvo that stands out in my mind, but I'm sure it wasn't the first. Hint : check the researchers' funding, folks. We think of universities as dedicated to unbiased research and scientific method, but those days are pretty much gone. Today many are nonprofit in legal terms only. They're now businesses, and proud of it, run by well-paid presidents recruited from business and by boards of wealthy business people. Not many of them would have an aversion to accepting money with greasy petro-fingerprints on it. The real picture of transportation energy use is complex. Because there are so many numbers involved, it's almost trivial to pick only the data which lead to your pre-selected conclusion. Energy gets used in all kinds of places delivering fuel to an ICEV. These include locating, drilling, and preparing the well; pumping the crude; getting it to the refinery; refining it; transporting the refined product to filling stations; operating the filling stations, and on and on. You could even reasonably count the energy use in the petroleum company's offices, the vehicles the wellhead workers drive. I'm sure you can think of others. And of course energy to run EVs comes from all kinds of places, not just coal. In fact, you can run an EV entirely on zero-carbon energy harvested from PV modules on your roof. Try that with an ICEV. Chip Gribben wrote a response to this argument many years ago. It's a well researched and unbiased picture showing that because of the US's energy mixture that emphasizes coal power plants, EVs actually can be (in a worst case analysis) blamed for increased output of SO2 and particulates vs ICEVs. However, their related HC, CO, and NoX output is dramatically lower. Where the power comes from matters. For example, in France, where most electrcity is nuclear, EVs blitz ICEVs for emissions - 99% less HC, 99% less CO, 91% less NoX, 58% less SO2, and 59% less particulates. http://www.evdl.org/docs/powerplant.pdf Better yet, as powerplants are upgraded, and as more renewable energy comes online from PV and wind, the entire EV fleet gets cleaner. Meanwhile, as more tar sands oil gets used for ICEVs, the entire ICEV fleet gets dirtier. These bogus poison-pen-PR analyses do enormous damage partly because the media are so quick to latch onto them. They LOVE to prove that the status quo is the very best of all worlds, and that new ideas are all bunk. That's not just because media owners are stolid, top-one-percent establishment types (though they are, by and large). It's also because reporters are balloon-poppers by nature. They pounce on something like this and come up gleefully waving it in the air. By the time it's debunked by more sober sources 3 weeks later, they've moved on to the next big conflagration. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to evpost and etpost addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Article: Electric cars could boost CO2 emissions in some provinces
One more thing, which is relevant in this early adopter period. You can buy RECs to effectively make your EV power green, no matter where you live. Peri -- Original Message -- From: EVDL Administrator via EV ev@lists.evdl.org To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: 24-Mar-15 9:26:00 PM Subject: Re: [EVDL] Article: Electric cars could boost CO2 emissions in some provinces This Ha-ha, surprise, EVs are worse game has been around for years. Bruce, Lee, and some of the other old-timers here may remember the mid-90s report attributed to a once-respectable university (Carnegie-Mellon maybe?). It was a great hue and cry about how the GM Impact / EV1 batteries would destroy the world with lead emissions worse than leaded gasoline's. They sort of forgot to account for recycling of lead batteries. Oops! That's an anti-EV salvo that stands out in my mind, but I'm sure it wasn't the first. Hint : check the researchers' funding, folks. We think of universities as dedicated to unbiased research and scientific method, but those days are pretty much gone. Today many are nonprofit in legal terms only. They're now businesses, and proud of it, run by well-paid presidents recruited from business and by boards of wealthy business people. Not many of them would have an aversion to accepting money with greasy petro-fingerprints on it. The real picture of transportation energy use is complex. Because there are so many numbers involved, it's almost trivial to pick only the data which lead to your pre-selected conclusion. Energy gets used in all kinds of places delivering fuel to an ICEV. These include locating, drilling, and preparing the well; pumping the crude; getting it to the refinery; refining it; transporting the refined product to filling stations; operating the filling stations, and on and on. You could even reasonably count the energy use in the petroleum company's offices, the vehicles the wellhead workers drive. I'm sure you can think of others. And of course energy to run EVs comes from all kinds of places, not just coal. In fact, you can run an EV entirely on zero-carbon energy harvested from PV modules on your roof. Try that with an ICEV. Chip Gribben wrote a response to this argument many years ago. It's a well researched and unbiased picture showing that because of the US's energy mixture that emphasizes coal power plants, EVs actually can be (in a worst case analysis) blamed for increased output of SO2 and particulates vs ICEVs. However, their related HC, CO, and NoX output is dramatically lower. Where the power comes from matters. For example, in France, where most electrcity is nuclear, EVs blitz ICEVs for emissions - 99% less HC, 99% less CO, 91% less NoX, 58% less SO2, and 59% less particulates. http://www.evdl.org/docs/powerplant.pdf Better yet, as powerplants are upgraded, and as more renewable energy comes online from PV and wind, the entire EV fleet gets cleaner. Meanwhile, as more tar sands oil gets used for ICEVs, the entire ICEV fleet gets dirtier. These bogus poison-pen-PR analyses do enormous damage partly because the media are so quick to latch onto them. They LOVE to prove that the status quo is the very best of all worlds, and that new ideas are all bunk. That's not just because media owners are stolid, top-one-percent establishment types (though they are, by and large). It's also because reporters are balloon-poppers by nature. They pounce on something like this and come up gleefully waving it in the air. By the time it's debunked by more sober sources 3 weeks later, they've moved on to the next big conflagration. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to evpost and etpost addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] EVLN: David-Crosby's Tesla @55mph hit injured jogger in SoCal
http://www.mercurynews.com/california/ci_27771749/chp-rocker-crosby-hits-jogger-car-california-road CHP: Rocker Crosby hits jogger with car on California road The Associated Press 03/23/2015 SANTA YNEZ, Calif. (AP) — Authorities say Rock and Roll Hall of Famer David Crosby hit and injured a jogger with his car in Southern California. The California Highway Patrol said in a statement that Crosby was driving his Tesla electric car on Sunday at about 55 mph, the posted speed limit on the road in the Santa Barbara area where he lives. The 73-year-old Crosby was driving toward the sun with limited vision when he hit 46-year-old Jose Jimenez, who was jogging along the right side of the road. Jimenez was hospitalized with broken bones, cuts and bruises and is expected to survive. Crosby stopped and cooperated with authorities. He wasn't hurt. The CHP says neither drugs nor alcohol were factors in the accident. Crosby is in the Rock Hall of Fame as a member of the Byrds and Crosby, Stills and Nash. [© mercurynews.com] http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2015/03/23/david-crosby-behind-wheel-tesla-that-hit-jogger/ David Crosby behind the wheel of a Tesla that hit jogger By Mitchell White, Santa Barbara News-Press March 23, 2015 A Santa Ynez man suffered major injuries Sunday night after being run over by singer-songwriter David Crosby, according to officials. At around 5:45 p.m., Mr. Crosby, 73, of Santa Ynez, was traveling west on Baseline Avenue in his 2015 Tesla sedan, according to California Highway Patrol Sgt. Don Clotworthy. Mr. Crosby, who was driving into the sun, did not see the jogger on the right side of the road. The man, Jose Jiminez, 46, of Santa Ynez, was struck and fell to the ground. At the time of the collision, Mr. Crosby was traveling at a reported speed of 55 mph, which is the speed limit on Baseline Avenue, Sgt. Clothworthy said. Mr. Jiminez was airlifted by Calstar helicopter to Santa Barbara Cottage Hospital for treatment of injuries, which included multiple fractures, abrasions and lacerations. His injuries are not considered to be life threatening. Mr. Crosby was not impaired at the time of the incident, and alcohol or drugs were not a factor, the CHP said. The cause of the collision remains under investigation by the CHP. [© foxnews.com] ... http://dailycaller.com/2015/03/23/police-singer-david-crosby-hits-jogger-with-his-tesla/ Police: Singer David Crosby Hits Jogger With His Tesla 03/23/2015 Kaitlan Collins David Crosby was driving his Tesla through wine country in California Monday evening when he hit a jogger, who was later airlifted to the hospital after suffering multiple fractures and lacerations. The 73-year-old said he was blinded by the sun when he hit the man going 55 mph, but the man’s injuries were not life threatening. From TMZ: “Crosby’s rep tells us the rocker is upset he accidentally hit the jogger, but he’s relieved the injuries weren’t life-threatening and he wishes the man a speedy recovery.” Neither drugs nor alcohol were involved, police say. ... http://www.tmz.com/2015/03/23/david-crosby-hits-jogger-car-accident-hospital/ David Crosby Hits Jogger At 55 mph ... Victim Airlifted 3/23/2015 Rock legend David Crosby slammed into a jogger while driving through California wine country ... sending the guy to the hospital with multiple fractures and lacerations. According to the police report ... Crosby was doing 55 mph in his 2015 Tesla when he hit the man on a highway in Santa Ynez. Crosby told police he was blinded by the sun when the accident happened. The 46-year-old runner's injuries were not life-threatening, but were serious enough that he was airlifted to a hospital. Crosby was not injured. The report shows alcohol and drugs were not a factor, and Crosby immediately stopped his vehicle. Crosby's rep tells us the rocker is upset he accidentally hit the jogger, but he's relieved the injuries weren't life-threatening and he wishes the man a speedy recovery. Police are still investigating the accident. ... http://kslx.com/david-crosby-hit-a-jobber-with-his-tesla-at-55-mph/ David Crosby hit a jogger with his Tesla at 55 mph [20150323] by Michael Gallucci ... http://consequenceofsound.net/2015/03/david-crosby-hits-jogger-with-car/ David Crosby hits jogger with car | Consequence of Sound by Ben Kaye March 23, 2015 ... Legendary musician David Crosby was involved in a car accident ... The victim, 46-year-old Jose Jimenez, was jogging along Baseline Avenue when Crosby's 2015 Black Tesla hit him ... http://www.davidcrosby.com/ David Crosby http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Crosby ... https://www.facebook.com/CSN.official ... http://www.last.fm/music/Crosby,+Stills,+Nash++Young Crosby, Stills, Nash Young (1969 – 1972, 1988 – present) For EVLN posts use: http://evdl.org/evln/
[EVDL] EVLN: BenJerry’s Tesla EV fanciest ice-cream delivery vehicle
'Ice-cream bearing Tesla will be in San Francisco from May 8-29'
http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Ben--Jerrys-to-Bring-Their-Tesla-Full-of-Free-Ice-Cream-to-San-Francisco-297059601.html
Ben Jerry's Delivers Free Ice Cream in Tesla on Save Our Swirled Tour to
Promote Climate Change Awareness
By Alyssa Goard Mar 20, 2015
[flash video
Vemont-based Ben and Jerry's is taking a an all-electric Tesla on tour
across the country to hand out free ice cream and talk to the public about
global working in a Save Our Swirled climate tour
]
Vermont-based ice cream maker Ben Jerry’s is taking a road trip Silicon
Valley-style in a Tesla that delivers free ice-cream.
Ben Jerry’s hopes that free sweet treats from their $80,000 Fremont-made
electric vehicle will rally folks to take a stand against climate change.
The ice-cream bearing Tesla will be in San Francisco from May 8 through May
29. Have a hankering for free scoops? Just Tweet to Ben Jerry’s and the
Tesla might just come to your doorstep.
We hit the road today on an #electricroadtrip in our custom @TeslaMotors.
Tweet @BenJerrysWest!! #SaveOurSwirled pic.twitter.com/faMRAV08ni
— Ben Jerry's Tour (@BenJerrysTour) March 17, 2015
Jerry Greenfield, Ben Jerry’s co-founder, told New England Cable News that
the ice-cream toting Tesla is, “by far, the fanciest delivery vehicle we’ve
ever had.”
NECN also reported that Ben Jerry’s removed the back seat of their
custom-made Tesla to fit enough ice cream for 1,500 samples. The Ben
Jerry’s Tesla will tour around the country from San Diego to Miami as part
of their #SaveOurSwirled tour which starts in April and runs through
Halloween.
While ice cream is it's main business, Ben and Jerry's wants customers to
know that protecting the planet is a top company priority. “We have to take
action now, this is the most urgent thing we’re working on,” said Ben
Jerry’s CEO Jostein Solheim of the comapny's push to encourage people to
take action against climate change.
Ben Jerry’s is partnering with the international grassroots activist group
Avaaz for this summer's #SaveOurSwirled tour. Ben Jerry’s has made a habit
of pairing ice cream and activism, it has thrown its sweet influence behind
sustainability, legalizing gay marriage, and Occupy Wall Street.
[© 2015 NBCUniversal Media]
...
http://www.benjerry.com/values/issues-we-care-about/climate-justice/climate-justice-tour/save-our-swirled-tour
Save Our Swirled climate tour
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http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subclass-cnt.aspx?id=2015032201cid=1102
Tesla may partner with Chongqing.cn automakers to build plant
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2015/03/20/127345-consumer-watchdog-argues-against-pg-e-proposal-to-monopolize-electric.html
Consumer Watchdog Against PGE Proposal to Monopolize CA EVSE @Ratepayer
Expense
http://docs.cpuc.ca.gov/PublishedDocs/Efile/G000/M148/K825/148825650.PDF
http://www.pressreleaserocket.net/juice-bar-electric-vehicle-chargers-to-be-showcased-at-aee-globalcon-conference-philadelphia/109601/
juicebarev.com Juice Bar EVSE @AEE globalconevent.com Philadelphia PA
http://www.abnewswire.com/pressreleases/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/1426427039.jpeg
+
EVLN: Tesla-S EV update 6.2 makes it impossible to run out of range
+
EVLN: David-Crosby's Tesla @55mph hit and injured S.CA jogger
{brucedp.150m.com}
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[EVDL] EVLN: Tesla-S EV update 6.2 impossible to run out of range
'Self-Driving Tesla EV in ~3 Months' http://www.treehugger.com/cars/tesla-model-s-software-update-62-makes-it-impossible-unintentionally-run-out-range.html Tesla: Model S update 6.2 makes it impossible to unintentionally run out of range Michael Graham Richard March 20, 2015 [images http://media.treehugger.com/assets/images/2015/03/elon-musk-in-front-model-s-electric-car-01.jpg.662x0_q100_crop-scale.jpg Elon Musk in front of Model S electric car / CC BY 2.0 Wikimedia http://media.treehugger.com/assets/images/2015/03/tesla-us-coverage-chargers-001.jpg.650x0_q85_crop-smart.jpg Tesla Motors/Promo image http://media.treehugger.com/assets/images/2015/03/CAebEwXU0AA5wXb.jpg.650x0_q85_crop-smart.jpg © Tesla http://media.treehugger.com/assets/images/2013/05/tesla-supercharger-network-02.jpg.650x0_q85_crop-smart.jpg © Tesla http://media.treehugger.com/assets/images/2012/09/Tesla-Supercharger-007.png.650x0_q85_crop-smart.jpg Tesla/Screen capture ] Earlier this week I made some guesses about what Elon Musk and Tesla had in store to end range anxiety with a software update. I thought that maybe the company would give its customers access to the battery reserves that are usually not used (to prolong battery life) when they're in a bad spot. Turns out, my guess was not correct. Instead, Tesla announced new smart navigation features that they say ensure you never unintentionally run out of range, giving you peace of mind at all times. Ending range anxiety The first new feature is called Range Assurance. The application is always running quietly in the background even when navigation is not in use. It communicates with the network of Tesla Superchargers and destination chargers, discarding any that are in heavy use or inactive and warns you before you drive out of range. The navigation system then shows a map of the most convenient charging locations and guides you to the closest one. Moreover, it factors in height changes, like having to climb over a mountain pass, and looks up weather and windspeed from the Internet to determine range with extreme accuracy. This means that to run out of electrons, you basically have to not listen to your EV. And since Tesla has been building a lot of new Supercharger stations and giving regular wall chargers (like those that Tesla owners can put in their garages) to hotels and restaurants, which they call 'destination chargers', most of North America is covered by some type of charger and over the next 12 months, all of Europe and North America (excluding northern Alaska) will be covered, as well as China (apart from low population areas far inland), the Japan main islands and southern Australia. The second new feature is called Trip Planner. It's basically a navigation system, like any GPS, that uses the features of range assurance (realtime contact with Superchargers, taking into account elevation, weather, etc). The software then figures out the fastest and most convenient path to your destination, including how long to stop at each location. As soon as your car is ready to go, it will message you via the Tesla phone app. UI Overhaul in 7.0 Musk also mentioned that version 7.0 of the Model S software will have a complete user interface overhaul. All these updates... This thing is starting to sound more like an iPhone rather than a traditional car... And it's becoming clear why, according to Morgan Stanley, 60% of Tesla employees are working on software while the average car maker only has about 2% of employees writing code. New safety features The 6.2 software update also has new safety features: -Automatic Emergency Braking, which will engage in the event of an unavoidable collision in order to reduce risk of impact -Blind Spot Warning alerts you when drivers behind you are dangerously close -Side Collision Warning (front collision warning is already enabled) Really interesting to think that a car could get safer over time from software updates. Again, this reminds me of a smartphone more than a traditional car. How much driving range is enough? During the QA portion of the call about this announcement, Musk made some good points about how much range is enough for an EV. He said that in the longest range version of the Model S, which is the 85D, you can drive 280 miles. If you're going 85 MPH, which is quite fast (especially as an average), you'd be driving for over 3 hours. If you're going at typical city speeds of around 25 MPH, you'd be driving for over 10 hours. And mix of the two might result in 5-6 hours. So adding more range wouldn't make that much of a different because very few people will drive for 5-6 hours straight without stopping. And if you're stopping, the EV can bring you to a Supercharger station and while you stretch your legs, go to the bathroom, get a bite to eat, a coffee, whatever, you can get enough charge for the next leg of the trip. So in theory, an electric car with 1,000 miles of range might not be driven that differently from
Re: [EVDL] Seeking Advice: Reusing the battery modules from a Nissan Leaf
I don't know how you would determine ahead of time if a Leaf pack has much capacity remaining. There is a lawsuit out because Nissan did a poor job of pack design where high temperatures are seen. Some packs in hot climates have lost half their capacity in less than 2 years. They needed to have a cooling system. Something to consider when repurposing them yourself. You never want tot charge them fully, or you need to keep them cool when they are charged fully. This the damaging condition - fully charged, too hot. It has nothing to do with charge or discharge rate. You may want to only buy the packs for not much $, or get some sort of warranty - unlikely for DIY applications. Maybe if you knew the donor car was never operated in the deep south...still is is more dicey than woith other packs. I am not sure if Nissan has fixed all this on later models. I would love hear if anyone knows. They might simply have limited the final charge, or they could have added cooling. Or they could have picked a better chemistry. On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 1:10 PM, Jay Summet via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: I am now the new owner of a totaled Nissan leaf purchased at a salvage yard. I'd like to hear any first hand accounts or links to tutorials/howto's/photos of anybody who has done this before. The plan is to drop and disassemble the battery pack, and re-package the modules into sixteen set of 3 modules in parallel. (16S3P) This will replace my 20 X 6v golf cart batteries (120 volt) lead acid battery pack in a few months. I am seeing advice on: 1) How to drop the battery pack safely. I don't have a lift, but do have a large concrete pad. My current plan involves multiple floor jacks under the battery pack. I know about the battery disconnect on the back passenger floor, but was wondering if there was a suggested side of the pack to drop first, how it disconnects, anything special to watch out for, etc.. 2) Specialized tools needed. Any tricky bolts/screws I'll need to purchase special tools for? 3) Advice on pack disassembly. 4) Does anybody sell bus-bars that would be appropriate for a 3-5 cell parallel pack? If I make them myself, any suggestions for material type, size/width? The plan is to connect each pack of 3 cells in series using my existing lead acid connection cables. (basically, replacing 20 6 volt batteries with 16 7-8 volt batteries...) As one Leaf has 48 cells, I'm using 3 cell packs for now, but am considering leaving room to expand each pack into 4 or 5 cells later...(extra holes on one/both ends of the bus-bars that stick out a bit...) 5) I'm leaning strongly towards the MiniBMS boards for leaf cells, one per parallel pack of 3 cells, comments one way or the other? 6) I'm willing to pay $200-$300 for some type of automated battery charger/discharger with logging suitable for using on an individual 2S Nissan leaf module. (To test and possibly bin the modules). Anybody know of an RC type charger/tester that supports the 4.2v cells and can handle 60+Ah discharge? (speed isn't terribly important...) Thanks, Jay ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/ group/NEDRA) -- To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. Thomas A. Edison http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. *Warren Buffet* Michael E. Ross (919) 585-6737 Land (919) 576-0824 https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones Google Phone (919) 631-1451 Cell michael.e.r...@gmail.com michael.e.r...@gmail.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150324/e3dc3de6/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Seeking Advice: Reusing the battery modules from a Nissan Leaf
I'm planning on doing something similar, but haven't gone beyond buying 3 cells on ebay, for a practice run on a lawnmower. Please post details as you work them out. Did you buy the car through one of Copart's auctions, or just walk into a salvage yard and ask for a LEAF? Bill -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150324/d766642c/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] Seeking Advice: Reusing the battery modules from a Nissan Leaf
I am now the new owner of a totaled Nissan leaf purchased at a salvage yard. I'd like to hear any first hand accounts or links to tutorials/howto's/photos of anybody who has done this before. The plan is to drop and disassemble the battery pack, and re-package the modules into sixteen set of 3 modules in parallel. (16S3P) This will replace my 20 X 6v golf cart batteries (120 volt) lead acid battery pack in a few months. I am seeing advice on: 1) How to drop the battery pack safely. I don't have a lift, but do have a large concrete pad. My current plan involves multiple floor jacks under the battery pack. I know about the battery disconnect on the back passenger floor, but was wondering if there was a suggested side of the pack to drop first, how it disconnects, anything special to watch out for, etc.. 2) Specialized tools needed. Any tricky bolts/screws I'll need to purchase special tools for? 3) Advice on pack disassembly. 4) Does anybody sell bus-bars that would be appropriate for a 3-5 cell parallel pack? If I make them myself, any suggestions for material type, size/width? The plan is to connect each pack of 3 cells in series using my existing lead acid connection cables. (basically, replacing 20 6 volt batteries with 16 7-8 volt batteries...) As one Leaf has 48 cells, I'm using 3 cell packs for now, but am considering leaving room to expand each pack into 4 or 5 cells later...(extra holes on one/both ends of the bus-bars that stick out a bit...) 5) I'm leaning strongly towards the MiniBMS boards for leaf cells, one per parallel pack of 3 cells, comments one way or the other? 6) I'm willing to pay $200-$300 for some type of automated battery charger/discharger with logging suitable for using on an individual 2S Nissan leaf module. (To test and possibly bin the modules). Anybody know of an RC type charger/tester that supports the 4.2v cells and can handle 60+Ah discharge? (speed isn't terribly important...) Thanks, Jay ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] New Tesla Owner
Congrats! Living the EV dream! On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 8:56 PM, Mike Nickerson via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: I finally jumped in with both feet and bought a used demonstration Tesla Model S. It is a 2014 model that was built just before the dual motor and self driving features. It was replaced as a demo when all the demonstration vehicles were upgraded to P85d models. So far, I have driven it for one day. It is an amazing car. Very sophisticated in an understated way. Incredible performance. Best of all, it is bright red; the best color for a car like that. Mike ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150324/51f392e1/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] Seeking Advice: Reusing the battery modules from a Nissan Leaf
On Tue Mar 24 10:10:43 PDT 2015 ev@lists.evdl.org said: I'd like to hear any first hand accounts or links to tutorials/howto's/photos of anybody who has done this before. Well, I have 120 modules in my F250 conversion. 4) Does anybody sell bus-bars that would be appropriate for a 3-5 cell parallel pack? If I make them myself, any suggestions for material type, size/width? The plan is to connect each pack of 3 cells in series using my existing lead acid connection cables. (basically, replacing 20 6 volt batteries with 16 7-8 volt batteries...) I had mine made out of 1/4 thick copper at a local machine shop. I also bought slighly longer bolts to hold the busbars to the modules, since the original bus bars are pretty thin. As one Leaf has 48 cells, I'm using 3 cell packs for now, but am considering leaving room to expand each pack into 4 or 5 cells later...(extra holes on one/both ends of the bus-bars that stick out a bit...) That would make things MUCH harder. The modules are held together by long rods that go through the entire stack. You'd need to put module-sized spacers between modules to leave room for future expansion. There are also heavy metal end-plates at each end of a stack. -- Worlds only All Electric F-250 truck! http://john.casadelgato.com/Electric-Vehicles/1995-Ford-F-250 ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Seeking Advice: Reusing the battery modules from a Nissan Leaf
On 03/24/2015 01:50 PM, Michael Ross wrote: I don't know how you would determine ahead of time if a Leaf pack has much capacity remaining. There is a lawsuit out because Nissan did a poor job of pack design where high temperatures are seen. Some packs in hot climates have lost half their capacity in less than 2 years. They needed to have a cooling system. Something to consider when repurposing them yourself. You never want tot charge them fully, or you need to keep them cool when they are charged fully. This the damaging condition - fully charged, too hot. It has nothing to do with charge or discharge rate. You may want to only buy the packs for not much $, or get some sort of warranty - unlikely for DIY applications. Maybe if you knew the donor car was never operated in the deep south...still is is more dicey than woith other packs. The Leaf I bought has 18K miles on it, so I expect the pack has some (hopefully minor) capacity loss. It is a 2013 model, so I believe that has a slightly upgraded battery chemistry that deals with the heat better. I (and the leaf) is in/from Atlanta, so that's probably the deep south ; However, the price was right for a used pack, as I'm getting a 24kWh pack for significantly less than the equivalent new price of lithium cells. (I'll probably post some info about buying a salvage Leaf later on..) I also hope to be able to sell some of the other parts of the car that I don't plan on using to offset the expense. Jay ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Seeking Advice: Reusing the battery modules from a NissanLeaf
discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRAhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150324/0317ce89/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Electric Motor power ratings
From: John Lussmyer via EV ev@lists.evdl.org So, does anyone have the ratings for a Warp 9 motor, for different time intervals? Max continuous? Max 5 minute? etc... From their FAQ: the 9” motors are actually rated at 450 Amps for 5 minutes, 225 Amps for 1 hour, and 190 Amps continuous duty... We believe these are conservative ratings. That's all I could find on it. Everything is energy and that's all there is to it. Match the frequency of the reality you want and you cannot help but get that reality. It can be no other way. This is not philosophy. This is physics. -- Albert Einstein Jan Steinman, EcoReality Co-op ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Packing peanuts make batteries
http://www.purdue.edu/newsroom/releases/2015/Q1/new-processing-technology-converts-packing-peanuts-to-battery-components.html -- View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Packing-peanuts-make-batteries-tp4674434p4674464.html Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] No Problem with EV Album, its up
[ref
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Problem-with-EV-Album-tp4674454.html
]
http://evalbum.com/
came it up fine for me at 1:30am pst
To be on the safe side, I also used the above URL in two browsers, and also
clicked on one of the listings. All worked as usual.
For those that do not know, the EValbum is a free resource for EV owners to
create a web page about their EV. This is very useful for many reasons:
-the owner can reference to that page when yakking about their EV
-the page is found by the search engines, so noobs, and the public around
the world can view the listing and learn about EVs and that there are so
many drivers/owners
-newbie EV converters/owners can use the site to research and learn about
EVs (what configuration and or parts perform in what way, etc.)
-when it comes time to sell the EV, the EValbum page would have all the
nitty-gritty detail for the serious buyer to explore, thus the seller can
focus on a short and sweet eye-catching 4sale ad(s) elsewhere (giving too
much detail initially can turn away the noob buyer)
-and much more ...
I want to state my thanks the owners and maintainers of the EValbum site for
providing that free service to the world :-)
{brucedp.150m.com}
--
View this message in context:
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/No-Problem-with-EV-Album-its-up-tp4674455.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.
___
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Re: [EVDL] Seeking Advice: Reusing the battery modules from a NissanLeaf
Hello John, I am also using the same Nissan Leaf battery modules. I made my own buss bars using pure copper soft draw air condition tubing that comes in 50 foot or 100 foot rolls. Use the 3/8 inch OD tubing for the cell mid test studs and use the 1/2 inch OD tubing for the power studs. To straighten out the tubing, we use the same method when we roll out large copper wire, by having some one standing on one end of the tubing and another person rolling it out on a hard floor surface. After rolling the tubing out, it will have a slight bend it, but this will straighten out by pressing it out. First cut the tubing with a tubing cutter in the lengths you need. I press the tubing by using a large 4 to 6 inch wide jaw vise. You can either purchase aluminum jaw covers or can make them by using 1/4 inch thick angle aluminum. I glue a series of round magnets on this aluminum angle so it will stay on the vise jaws. This jaw cover will protect the copper tubing from being mark up with the vise jaw teeth. When placing the copper tubing to be press, make sure you place the tubing with the curve facing the jaws openings in the vise. This curve is so slight, so make sure you mark it for the right orientation. I had to use a cheater bar over the vice jaw handles. Use a length of ridged steel pipe that will slip over the handles. If you can find a gorilla to help you, this will work too. Next, mark out the distance of the holes, center punch, and drill the holes. To drill these holes I use a drill press with a drill press vice. Use a drill bit that has a small center bit in the larger bit combination. This gives a cleaner cut. After you drill the holes, you can use a larger standard drill bit, like a 1/2 inch bit to use to slightly ream the sharp edges of the drilled holes. The studs are about 5/16 inch in diameter, so I use a 3/8 drill bit to make the holes. You do not need any contact paste on these buss bars connections, because they are a copper to copper contact. Before installing buss bars to any electrical connection, make sure you clean the buss bars with either alcohol or lacquer thinner. After cleaning and installing the bus bars, do not touch them with your bare fingers. Use those throw away latex gloves that you can get by the box. Just touching the bars leaves a oil that can increase the resistance of the bar. Torque the to about 60 inch pounds using a inch pound torque wrench. I cover the handles with black foam air condition insulation, which can be slip on or off. Roland - Original Message - From: John Lussmyer via EVmailto:ev@lists.evdl.org To: Electric Vehicle Discussion Listmailto:ev@lists.evdl.org ; Jay Summetmailto:j...@summet.com Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 11:27 AM Subject: [EVDL] Seeking Advice: Reusing the battery modules from a NissanLeaf On Tue Mar 24 10:10:43 PDT 2015 ev@lists.evdl.orgmailto:ev@lists.evdl.org said: I'd like to hear any first hand accounts or links to tutorials/howto's/photos of anybody who has done this before. Well, I have 120 modules in my F250 conversion. 4) Does anybody sell bus-bars that would be appropriate for a 3-5 cell parallel pack? If I make them myself, any suggestions for material type, size/width? The plan is to connect each pack of 3 cells in series using my existing lead acid connection cables. (basically, replacing 20 6 volt batteries with 16 7-8 volt batteries...) I had mine made out of 1/4 thick copper at a local machine shop. I also bought slighly longer bolts to hold the busbars to the modules, since the original bus bars are pretty thin. As one Leaf has 48 cells, I'm using 3 cell packs for now, but am considering leaving room to expand each pack into 4 or 5 cells later...(extra holes on one/both ends of the bus-bars that stick out a bit...) That would make things MUCH harder. The modules are held together by long rods that go through the entire stack. You'd need to put module-sized spacers between modules to leave room for future expansion. There are also heavy metal end-plates at each end of a stack. -- Worlds only All Electric F-250 truck! http://john.casadelgato.com/Electric-Vehicles/1995-Ford-F-250http://john.casadelgato.com/Electric-Vehicles/1995-Ford-F-250 ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usubhttp://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.orghttp://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRAhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150324/d476ce58/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help
[EVDL] Problem with EV Album?
For some reason the evalbum.com site is not loading for me. Other have that problem or is it a local issue? Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless office +1 408 383 7626 Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP +31 87 784 1130 private: cvandewater.info www.proxim.com This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation. If you received this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. Any unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of this message is prohibited. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
