[EVDL] EVLN: Electric Bigfoot #20 @2015 VIAS.ca
http://driving.ca/auto-shows/vancouver-auto-show/2015-vias-bigfoot-goes-electric 2015 VIAS: Bigfoot goes electric! By John G. Stirling [20150322] [image https://postmediadriving.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/vias_bigfootnew.jpg This EV Bigfoot is powered by 36 Odyssey PC 1200 car batteries. It is making its Vancouver debut at the auto show, running March 24-29 at the downtown Convention Centre. PHOTO: Handout, Driving ] Zero-emission monster truck can stomp with the best of the them It’s not just the guys who love ‘em. Lots of ladies can out-vocalize the boys when monster trucks do their thing. Regardless of gender, there’s a little bit of “I’d sure wish I was driving that monster truck” in all of us. A few weeks ago here in Vancouver, monsters trucks were crushing poor little cars, with all the thrills and roll-overs we have all come to love and expect. And the smell. Wow. Fumes and dust. Quite the mixture. Just when you thought you’d seen the best performance ever, here comes another testosterone over-loaded driver and vehicle, as the show must go on. But this is a monster truck with a difference. This big boy is all electric. And it’s making its Vancouver debut at the auto show. It’s worth the price of admission just to get up close and personal to the new/old #20. “Great,” you’re muttering to yourself. “Electric. They’ve gone and ruined another vehicle. Won’t be able to jump over and crush a pebble, let alone a foreign import.” Hold on to your opinions folks, because this is one wicked vehicle. Remember Bigfoot. Well, it’s now received one heck of an extreme makeover. Bigfoot owners teamed up with Odyssey Battery, and Number 20 is now carrying around 36 Odyssey PC 1,200 car batteries. Stay with me here. Thirty of those batteries power the special, custom-built direct current electric motor that puts out 350 horses. Big deal, you say? Well that works out to be some 800 pound-feet of direct drive torque. This is not small potatoes in power. To deal with that torque they popped in a special transfer case that sends all that power to the one-off custom-built drive shaft, then on to the also special planetary axles. Voila. Now we’re moving. What about stopping, even if it’s inside a stadium? The math-minded will recall that six batteries are not being used for power. Yep. Those puppies are hooked up to power the steering and the braking. Internal wet disc brakes do the stopping job. More numbers? (Careful. There may be a test at the end of this column.) The whole battery package weighs in at 625 kg. That figure and the whole monster truck hit the stadium floor at just under 5,000 kg. The body is a special fiberglass Super Duty design, bolted down on top of a Bigfoot racing chassis. The wheels are 25-inch steel, and around them are wrapped very big and bloated 66 inch Firestone tires. What’s keeping them on the ground, at least while Bigfoot is standing still, are eight nitrogen charged monster stuck racing shocks. Bigfoot #20 will never die during a show. That sucker can go, non-stop for at least 20 minutes, and I’ll bet by that time, you might have forgotten just how powerful and also how different it sounds. You’ll still hear the crushing metal. If they forgot to take out any glass, it will be blasted out of the wreck in no short order. Batteries are not holding back any performance power from this new and improved Electric Bigfoot #20 This is the real deal. Electric. Powerful. Very Wicked. Guaranteed to give you even more thrills than the “other” now, old fashioned monster trucks. I’ve been converted. Besides, I’ve always liked the quiet powerful types. [© driving.ca] ... vancouverinternationalautoshow.com 2015 Vancouver International Auto Show (VIAS) 3/24-29 [dated] http://www.thebatteryshow.com/media/news/2014/08/12/electric-odyssey-battery-bigfoot-20-monster-truck-dominates-the-battery-show/ Electric Odyssey Battery Bigfoot #20 Monster Truck Dominates The Battery Show Aug 12, 2014 — the Odyssey Battery Bigfoot #20 Monster Truck, the world’s first and only all electric-powered vehicle of its kind ... http://www.thebatteryshow.com/assets/gallery/19/629.jpg ... [videos BIGFOOT #20's 1st Event Appearance - YouTube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFoWHMylA0I Feb 13, 2013 - 3 min - Uploaded by bigfootoriginal The world's first electric, battery-powered monster truck, BIGFOOT #20, made its first event ... BIGFOOT #20 - First Electric Monster Truck Car Crush - YouTube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U41fJ-pd2vE Nov 8, 2012 - 3 min - Uploaded by bigfootoriginal Here are some highlights of BIGFOOT #20 doing the first ever electric monster truck car crush ... ] ... http://www.gizmag.com/bigfoot-monster-truck-goes-electric/25484/ BIGFOOT monster truck goes electric By C.C. Weiss December 17, 2012 ... BIGFOOT Number 20 uses only battery power to wreak havoc on the junkyard. http://images.gizmag.com/gallery_lrg/bigfootev.jpg ...
[EVDL] EVLN: BMW's i3 EV Actually Didn't Suck All That Much, +rant (v)
BMW i3 electric car “to introduce Apple operating system” http://www.treehugger.com/cars/Road-test-joel-feder-takes-bmw-i3-electric-car-spin-video.html#14271407224701action=collapse_widgetid=2065790 Road test: Joel Feder takes the BMW i3 electric car for a spin (video) Michael Graham Richard March 18, 2015 [images http://media.treehugger.com/assets/images/2015/03/bmw-i3-electric-car-gcr-joel-feder.jpg.662x0_q100_crop-scale.jpg Screen capture Youtube http://media.treehugger.com/assets/images/2013/07/bmw-i3-electric-car-2014-01.jpg.650x0_q85_crop-smart.jpg videos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSwKoOK6Rm4 BMW i3 Review GreenCarReports Mar 16, 2015 If there’s ever been a brand-reset button in the automotive business, the BMW i3 is it. It's a compact hatchback, and an all-electric car from the brand that claims to build ultimate driving machines. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdb--t3uM78 Driving the BMW i3 all-electric sedan The Verge Jan 17, 2014 At CES, BMW rolled out US pre-orders of the i3, the company's first mass-production electric sedan. We had a chance to take it out beyond the glitzy Las Vegas Strip for a look at what this battery-powered family hauler can do. More from The Verge: ] The nice people at Green Car Reports got their hands on a BMW i3, and took it for a drive. Their road test review is, in my opinion, the most interesting one of this EV that I've seen, and I encourage you to check it out (below) and to read their piece. One notable thing about the i3: with an EPA rating of 124 MPGe, it's the most efficient car sold in the U.S. The BMW i3 is powered by a lithium-ion battery. BMW claims a real-world range of 80 – 100 miles (130 - 160 km) in everyday driving, something that can be increased by up to approximately 12% in ECO PRO mode, and by the same amount additionally in ECO PRO+ mode. Here's the full list of tech specs: -170-hp, 184 lb-ft hybrid-synchronous electric motor with max. revs of 11,400 rpm. -80-100 mile real-world EV range. -22-kWh lithium-ion battery, which weighs 450 lbs. -650cc gasoline powered Range Extender optional; holds charge, doesn’t power wheels. -0-30mph in 3.5 seconds, 0-60mph in approximately 7.0 seconds (preliminary). -Top speed of 93 mph, electronically limited to preserve efficiency. -BMW’s signature, near-perfect 50-50 weight distribution. -Ultra-tight turning radius (32.3 ft), which is ideal for city driving. -Macpherson strut front and 5-link rear suspension set up. -Single Pedal Driving Concept with Brake Energy Regeneration, which feeds power back into battery. -3 drive modes: Comfort, ECO PRO and ECO PRO+. -3 hour 220 V @32 amps charging time. -Optional SAE DC Combo Fast Charging allows for 80% charge in 20mins; 100% in 30 mins Warning: A bit of a rant... The i3 is a bit of an oddity, in my opinion. It suffers from a syndrome that most established carmakers suffer from, and it's 'nicheitism'. They look at electric cars and think oh, that's a nice little niche. Let's put something cute together! These eco-minded people like small, weird cars, right? Let's give them exactly what they want. Thinking like that is a mistake. The attitude that they should have instead should be: Electric cars are the future. They're more efficient, more powerful, quieter, have simpler drivetrains, etc. Batteries are getting better and cheaper every year. If you look at the trend, at some point gasoline won't be able to compete, so we need to get started right now to make the transition successfully. This would lead them to throwing everything they have at making the very best car that they can possibly make, which would just happen to be electric, appealing to the largest number of people. So BMW might make an all-electric 3 or 5, and Nissan might make an electric Altima, Ford an electric Fusion, etc. I don't mean to be too negative. I like that BMW took a chance and built an EV from the ground up, and there's a lot of really forward-thinking in the i3 (including the fact that there's a drop in range-extender). But I would like to see more EVs aimed squarely at the mass-market, rather than at small niches (or worse -- compliance cars made just because regulators, like California's, require them). [© treehugger.com] http://www.themalaymailonline.com/drive/article/the-bmw-i3-high-on-moral-value-not-great-on-looks-video The BMW i3: High on moral value, not great on looks (VIDEO) March 21, 2015 [video flash image http://www.themalaymailonline.com/images/sized/ez/BMW_i3_2103_620_376_100.JPG A BMW i3 electric car is seen during the opening of the 85th International Motor Show in Geneva March 5, 2015. — Reuters ] NEW YORK, March 21 — BMW has released a series of electric cars called the i series. Bloomberg's Hannah Elliott reviews the i3, a small, moderately-priced all-electric vehicle. It's perfect for anyone who prizes efficiency over style. — Bloomberg [© 2015 Malay Mail Online] ...
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Tesla EV's best-friend could be a Russian-Trucker regen@60kph (v)
On 03/27/2015 05:53 AM, brucedp5 via EV wrote: Electric cars are charged by means other than by plugging them in, something which is very helpful in getting a bit of extra range. But the amount of energy recovered like this isn't going to be dramatic unless your trips involves a lot of steep downhill driving. Although as the video here will show, towing the car behind a truck is also very effective. This reminds me of how I got my imiev home this past December. I believe I reported it here. I bought the imiev from a dealer about 200 miles distant. A friend and I towed the imiev with the Tesla about 60 of those 200 miles. Two towing sessions of about 30 miles. Tesla SuperChargers supplied the energy for the imiev. It was cold and I ran the imiev heater while being towed. Stayed toasty. Under those conditions without a tow load, the Tesla would expend about 300-350 wh/m. Towing the imiev, it was about 500 wh/m. The imiev manual shouts that the imiev is never to be towed with the rear wheels on the ground. Never the less, I encountered no trouble. We towed at moderate speed, around 50mph, and I kept the regen power in the mid range by selecting the appropriate amount of regen. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: LEAF EV Pack Reliability Outperforms Cynics Critics (?)
On 03/27/2015 12:50 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote: On 26 Mar 2015 at 19:57, Ben Goren via EV wrote: That's the idea behind my suggestion of a remaining (usable) kWh gauge ... Sounds good to me. Solectria had a simple answer to this. They gave you a straightforward amp- hour meter. As you drove, it counted up; as you charged, it counted down. When the charger shut off, it zeroed itself. After a few years driving my conversion with a TBS amp-hour counter, I was expecting something as straightforward in my Leaf. I don't know how modern factory EVs estimate the battery capacity but on the conversion, I felt the need to do the occasional capacity test. I would fully charge and balance and then pull it down until some cells started going low. I reported the tests here amid quite a bit of scepticism. My 260ah ThunderSky LFP cells started off giving me about 300ah. They smoothly declined over the years and are currently about 230ah. I was expecting similar or better performance on the Leaf battery. I was sorely disappointed. The conversion went about 50 k miles over about 7 years and suffered about 20% capacity loss from new (a bit more than 10% from advertised). While the Leaf lost 30+% in two years and 20k miles. Both batteries endured the horribly hot summer (about 100 days above 100 deg) that so damaged the Leaf battery. The ThunderSkys seemed unaffected. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] EVLN: Tesla EV's best-friend could be a Russian-Trucker regen@60kph (v)
http://www.carbuzz.com/news/2015/3/24/Here-s-A-Creative-Way-To-Charge-Your-EV-7726071/
Here's A Creative Way To Charge Your EV
by Jacob Joseph [2015/3/24]
[video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0ANR-leiB8
[Russiantranslate.googleEnglish]
Charging the Tesla Model S on a rope behind a truck. konstantin
tesla-barnaul Oct 3, 2014 What to do if in the field or on the road ended
electricity in your car?
]
Tesla Russia EV Videos Funny
Those electric motors also work as generators. The narration for this video
is in Russian, but the car's dash and info system are all in English and we
have faith that you will be able to understand what's going on.
Electric cars are charged by means other than by plugging them in, something
which is very helpful in getting a bit of extra range. But the amount of
energy recovered like this isn't going to be dramatic unless your trips
involves a lot of steep downhill driving. Although as the video here will
show, towing the car behind a truck is also very effective.
It's not exactly practical for everyone, and most truck drivers probably
won't help you like this. But in a pinch, it definitely would work.
[© 2015 CarBuzz.com]
...
http://www.autoevolution.com/news/how-to-recharge-a-tesla-model-s-on-the-go-the-russian-way-video-92631.html
How To Recharge a Tesla Model S On the Go, The Russian Way - Video
by Tudor Rus 25th February 2015
And by “the Russian way” we mean connecting your state-of-the-art Tesla
Model S to the back of a truck and simply letting it tow your fancy sedan
along the road until your battery is charged and good to go.
What would you do if your Tesla Model S ran out of battery in the middle of
nowhere, with no prospects of finding a suitable place to recharge it and
continue your trip?
Well, the answer comes from Mother Russia, a place well known for the
challenging conditions drivers must survive in and accidents recorded with
dash-cams. But Russians can be pretty innovative too, a sign that need
really is the mother of invention.
This guy figured a way to get the best out of Tesla’s regenerative brakes
and it seems to be working as a last call solution, although we’re not fully
convinced that such an improvising act is good for the electric sedan’s
well-being.
Regen braking is a source of negative torque which can cause the car to
become unstable if applied to the rear wheels. Luckily, Tesla has that under
control with its regen-limiting traction control system, that stops the rear
wheels from slipping and keeps it safe for both the car, driver and
passengers.
In the Tesla Roadster, taking your foot off the accelerator at speed will
provide a lot of regen but applying the brake simply adds the friction
braking power to the regen process. The Model S is taking the same model,
but adapted for a milder response, so this is why our inventive Russian
managed to pull off the being-towed-by-a-truck stunt that made battery
recharging possible in the first place.
[© 2015 SoftNews NET]
...
http://my.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/model-s-road-charging-60-kw
Model S on the road charging at 60 kW | Forums | Tesla Motors
Feb 25, 2015 - Russians seem to have invented an innovative way to charge on
the road ... The car is being towed behind a truck ...
...
http://my.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/i-have-read-some-weird-ideas-extend-range-turbo-generator-grill-gas-generator-trunk-etc
I have read some weird ideas to extend range (turbo generator in grill, gas
generator in trunk etc) but my idea makes sense
ragtopday | Feb 20, 2015 ... check this out, someone in Russia got a truck
driver to tow them in order to ...
...
http://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/2x2ul4/guy_in_siberia_charges_his_model_s_by_towing_it/
Guy in Siberia charges his Model S by towing it behind a semi-truck
Feb 25, 2015
For EVLN posts use:
http://evdl.org/evln/
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=search_pagenode=413529query=subject%3Aevln+NOT+subject%3Aredays=0sort=date
http://www.gizmag.com/electric-vehicle-urban-heat-island-benefit/36645/
Electric vehicles could cut home air conditioner use
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/a-surprising-benefit-of-electric-cars-cooler-cities/
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/breaking-jaguar-land-rover-build-8912601
Jaguar-LR 2build RD/‘brains’ centre in Coventry UK ~11k new jobs
http://www.floridatoday.com/story/news/local/2015/03/20/gas-guzzlers-park-risk/25094915/
FL Gas guzzlers ice EV spots at their own risk “ICE shaming”
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/2015/03/25/tesla-sued-uk-fight-charging-stations/70432030/
Tesla sued in fight over UK charging stations
+
EVLN: BMW's i3 EV Actually Didn't Suck All That Much, +more (v)
+
EVLN: Electric Bigfoot #20 @2015 vancouverinternationalautoshow.com
{brucedp.150m.com}
--
View this message in context:
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: LEAF EV Pack Reliability Outperforms Cynics Critics (?)
My questions is How can you be sure? Are you positive the Leaf instrumentation measures capacity correctly. They claim it is all an instrumentation issue not a battery issue. The I-MiEV instructs the owner to periodically drive the vehicle almost empty and then recharge fully to keep the fuel gauge accurate. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 27, 2015, at 6:03 AM, Willie2 via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: On 03/27/2015 12:50 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote: On 26 Mar 2015 at 19:57, Ben Goren via EV wrote: That's the idea behind my suggestion of a remaining (usable) kWh gauge ... Sounds good to me. Solectria had a simple answer to this. They gave you a straightforward amp- hour meter. As you drove, it counted up; as you charged, it counted down. When the charger shut off, it zeroed itself. After a few years driving my conversion with a TBS amp-hour counter, I was expecting something as straightforward in my Leaf. I don't know how modern factory EVs estimate the battery capacity but on the conversion, I felt the need to do the occasional capacity test. I would fully charge and balance and then pull it down until some cells started going low. I reported the tests here amid quite a bit of scepticism. My 260ah ThunderSky LFP cells started off giving me about 300ah. They smoothly declined over the years and are currently about 230ah. I was expecting similar or better performance on the Leaf battery. I was sorely disappointed. The conversion went about 50 k miles over about 7 years and suffered about 20% capacity loss from new (a bit more than 10% from advertised). While the Leaf lost 30+% in two years and 20k miles. Both batteries endured the horribly hot summer (about 100 days above 100 deg) that so damaged the Leaf battery. The ThunderSkys seemed una ffected. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: LEAF EV Pack Reliability Outperforms Cynics Critics (?)
On 03/27/2015 06:53 AM, Paul Dove via EV wrote: My questions is How can you be sure? Are you positive the Leaf instrumentation measures capacity correctly. They claim it is all an instrumentation issue not a battery issue. The I-MiEV instructs the owner to periodically drive the vehicle almost empty and then recharge fully to keep the fuel gauge accurate. If this is addressed to me. And if the question is how do you know your Leaf battery had lost 30+% of capacity My Leaf initially had 90+ miles of range down to zero remaining miles estimate and/or turtle. Near the end of my Leaf experience, I had the car towed twice when it failed to reach it's destination at range of a bit more than 60 miles. When the car was new, Steve Clunn and I ran it down to nothing to see how it behaved. We pulled it in the last hundred yards with a golf cart. The conclusion was: about 1 mile after turtle. Given that the crappy instrumentation failed to report estimated capacity, I had to infer capacity from range. Amusingly, I drove my imiev about 22 miles yesterday from a full charge. The estimated range was 41 miles. At the end of the trip, the estimated range was 43 miles. I don't know what happened. Normally, from a full charge, the estimated range starts at 60-70 miles. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: LEAF EV Pack Reliability Outperforms Cynics Critics (?)
*I was expecting similar or better performance on the Leaf battery.* As far as I can tell that was an unwarranted assumption. If anything is true, it is certain that LFP are an outlier in behavior to the other chemistries that have Li metal oxide positive electrodes. I heard Jack Rickard claim he knows what the chemistry of t a Leaf cells are, but it wasn't from a spec sheet. Does anyone know for certain? I heard a professor working on cell design claim Tesla was using LFP, but is clearly no long correct, if it ever was. Misinformation abounds. Then you add in we know nothing of the details of cell construction - ** how is the graphite was made and handled? ** how is the electrolyte and its additives were compounded? ** What is the quality of connection between the conductors and the terminal connections? In the pack we don't know - ** how well the cells are connected and by what? ** are they cooled? ** how well does it work? ** how does the BMS work? ** how should it work? In the field we don't have a good idea how driving habits and climate impact different cells. And so on. This is a tall stack of don't knows. Then we try to do these comparisons in the least accurate way - ** with very imprecise instrumentation (LFP is the worst for a flat voltage/capacity curve) ** during uncontrolled use, ** in a long term performance evaluation ** where all the unknown contributing factors have a chance to accumulate idiosyncratically.. We take our pattern seeking mind with all its cognitive biases an start drawing inferences from coincidences and feelings. It is no wonder we are mostly confused about it. On Fri, Mar 27, 2015 at 7:03 AM, Willie2 via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: On 03/27/2015 12:50 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote: On 26 Mar 2015 at 19:57, Ben Goren via EV wrote: That's the idea behind my suggestion of a remaining (usable) kWh gauge ... Sounds good to me. Solectria had a simple answer to this. They gave you a straightforward amp- hour meter. As you drove, it counted up; as you charged, it counted down. When the charger shut off, it zeroed itself. After a few years driving my conversion with a TBS amp-hour counter, I was expecting something as straightforward in my Leaf. I don't know how modern factory EVs estimate the battery capacity but on the conversion, I felt the need to do the occasional capacity test. I would fully charge and balance and then pull it down until some cells started going low. I reported the tests here amid quite a bit of scepticism. My 260ah ThunderSky LFP cells started off giving me about 300ah. They smoothly declined over the years and are currently about 230ah. I was expecting similar or better performance on the Leaf battery. I was sorely disappointed. The conversion went about 50 k miles over about 7 years and suffered about 20% capacity loss from new (a bit more than 10% from advertised). While the Leaf lost 30+% in two years and 20k miles. Both batteries endured the horribly hot summer (about 100 days above 100 deg) that so damaged the Leaf battery. The ThunderSkys seemed unaffected. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/ group/NEDRA) -- To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. Thomas A. Edison http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. *Warren Buffet* Michael E. Ross (919) 585-6737 Land (919) 576-0824 https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones Google Phone (919) 631-1451 Cell michael.e.r...@gmail.com michael.e.r...@gmail.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150327/44df66bf/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: LEAF EV Pack Reliability Outperforms Cynics Critics (?)
Well that just verifies what I said. You have no data other than coming from the Leaf instruments. If it calculates capacity incorrectly it will shut down the car. You still don't know if the battery failed or the capacity measurement is off. One would have to measure voltage and amp hours to really know what is happening Sent from my iPhone On Mar 27, 2015, at 7:15 AM, Willie2 via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: On 03/27/2015 06:53 AM, Paul Dove via EV wrote: My questions is How can you be sure? Are you positive the Leaf instrumentation measures capacity correctly. They claim it is all an instrumentation issue not a battery issue. The I-MiEV instructs the owner to periodically drive the vehicle almost empty and then recharge fully to keep the fuel gauge accurate. If this is addressed to me. And if the question is how do you know your Leaf battery had lost 30+% of capacity My Leaf initially had 90+ miles of range down to zero remaining miles estimate and/or turtle. Near the end of my Leaf experience, I had the car towed twice when it failed to reach it's destination at range of a bit more than 60 miles. When the car was new, Steve Clunn and I ran it down to nothing to see how it behaved. We pulled it in the last hundred yards with a golf cart. The conclusion was: about 1 mile after turtle. Given that the crappy instrumentation failed to report estimated capacity, I had to infer capacity from range. Amusingly, I drove my imiev about 22 miles yesterday from a full charge. The estimated range was 41 miles. At the end of the trip, the estimated range was 43 miles. I don't know what happened. Normally, from a full charge, the estimated range starts at 60-70 miles. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] EVhistory: using a tow while in regen to regain a charge is not new
[ref
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-A-Tesla-EV-s-best-friend-a-Russian-Trucker-regen-tow-60kph-v-tp4674567.html
EVLN: A Tesla EV's best-friend a Russian-Trucker, regen-tow@60kph (v)
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Re-EVLN-Tesla-EV-s-best-friend-could-be-a-Russian-Trucker-regen-60kph-v-tp4674568.html
Re: EVLN: Tesla EV's best-friend could be a Russian-Trucker regen@60kph (v)
]
Way-way back in the late 1990's before Honda (like GM's EV1) took back all
their really nice EV-plus EVs from lease so they could crush destroy them
...
There was a report of an EVplus driver that needed a charge, but since the
EVSE infrastructure was nothing like today, he decided to call a tow truck.
He purposely left the EV-plus key in the 'on' position so that the regen
would recharge the EV-plus pack.
This helped the driver in more than one aspect: not only did he get a
partial charge when there was next to nil public EV-charging around
back-them, but he was able to stop the tow part of the way to his
destination, thus save some on the tow costs the regen had given him enough
range to make it the rest of the way.
Honda did not allow towing in regen mode, so this expereince was mainly
shared amoungst EV drivers, for fear of having Honda take away the EV-plus
drivers leased-EV.
Back in those days, the automakers were so restrictive, for fear of damaging
their new auto tech vehicles. But in hindsight, they should not have been if
their overall plan was to yank all those EVs back once the Big7 Automakers
have made their point that no one wanted them.
Much to their chargrin, that point was proven wrong as there were so many
people that wanted the EV-plus, all the leases were filled.
The EV-advocates (like myself) that had gone the extra mile to promote the
EV Plus at shows and EVents were rewarded by Honda by them announcing they
had met their CARB quota and were not making nor leasing any more EV-plus
EVs.
(please do not try to tell me those automakers did not hate EVs, I was there
and likely you were not).
For more detail on the Honda EV-plus, see
http://www.altfuels.org/misc/ev_plus.html
http://www.altfuels.org/events/testdriv/rental2.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_EV_Plus
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http://evdl.org/evln/
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=search_pagenode=413529query=subject%3Aevln+NOT+subject%3Aredays=0sort=date
{brucedp.150m.com}
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: LEAF EV Pack Reliability Outperforms Cynics Critics (?)
Paul Dove via EV wrote: My questions is How can you be sure? Are you positive the Leaf instrumentation measures capacity correctly. They claim it is all an instrumentation issue not a battery issue. The I-MiEV instructs the owner to periodically drive the vehicle almost empty and then recharge fully to keep the fuel gauge accurate. My view is that the just like us, the auto companies are *experimenting* with electric cars. Unlike us here, they don't experiment on their own cars, and share their data for the benefit of others. They *sell* their experiments to YOU, and let you bear the costs (and risks). And keep the data for their own competitive advantage. But at least they are finally building them, and will hopefully learn something from all that data they are harvesting to make them better. (I'll bet Nissan knows everything about how Willie drove and charged his Leaf, for example). -- Obsolete (Ob-so-LETE). Adjective. 1. Something that is simple, reliable, straightforward, readily available, easy to use, and affordable. 2. Not what the salesman wants you to buy. -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeah...@earthlink.net ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Electric Bigfoot #20 @2015 VIAS.ca
On Mar 27, 2015, at 3:49 AM, brucedp5 via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Zero-emission monster truck can stomp with the best of the them I've never gotten the monster truck thing...but is is good for EVs in general. Anything that get somebody afflicted with testosterone poisoning to end an article with: This is the real deal. Electric. Powerful. Very Wicked. Guaranteed to give you even more thrills than the “other” now, old fashioned monster trucks. I’ve been converted. Besides, I’ve always liked the quiet powerful types. is good for EVs. Get those with testosterone and passion for all things vehicular to see electric as the must-have feature for the ultimate in power and bad-assery...and you've just created the perfect wave of...well, not exactly early adopters, but leading enthusiasts. Y'all know all those puffy vehicles that're somehow supposed to convey manliness while looking like the archetypal grossly obese Walmart shopper? I bet some oversized batteries and motors would make them even manlier. Just like they did to this Bigfoot #20. b -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150327/e801ff9d/attachment.pgp ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: LEAF EV Pack Reliability Outperforms Cynics Critics (?)
Actually I think the flat V versus capacity of LFP is an asset. It is what enables you to use Ah used, a nice stable, repeatable measurement, that tracks Wh used quite well over most of the capacity of the pack (I've data logged battery V and I using 1 sample/sec and compared them). I've used a TBS gauge (like Willy) for over 5 years now, and kept track of Ah used to various destinations in a 3x5 notebook I keep in the glove box. As a result, I can look at a route on google maps and from the distance and elevation change estimate to typically within a few percent how many Ah it will take to get there (like David mentioned with the Solectria). A computer could learn that way to...if only David would give it his destinations. :^)) You can't expect all drivers to track things that way though, they just want to get in and go without checking anything. -- View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Re-EVLN-LEAF-EV-Pack-Reliability-Outperforms-Cynics-Critics-tp4674498p4674575.html Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] How I purchased a totaled Leaf for the battery pack
I always use auctionstealer to place a bid within 10 sec before the end of an Ebay auction... I simply won't play this game. I feel that it only encourages unfair practices. If I want something on eBay, I decide what it's worth to me. That's what I bid; and no more. If I get it, fine. If I get sniped, so what... another one will be offered soon (maybe from the same guy that bought it at the stupid price, when their spouse finds out). :-) -- Obsolete (Ob-so-LETE). Adjective. 1. Something that is simple, reliable, straightforward, readily available, easy to use, and affordable. 2. Not what the salesman wants you to buy. -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeah...@earthlink.net ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: LEAF EV Pack Reliability Outperforms Cynics Critics (?)
I think the main asset of LFP is it takes an extra 100C or so to ignite the electrolyte. They can burn just not as well as others) LFP has some real disadvantages too. It is somewhat more costly to manufacture due to it being necessary to make the positive electrode in an inert atmosphere. LFP cells are not compact (low volumetric density) They start to deteriorate badly at a pretty low temperature when fully charged- 40°C (104°F). I have unfortunately applied this last detriment to my own LFP packs for my LEV. Jeff Dahn mentioned another chemistry that had an upper limit of 35°C (95°F). Information on the temperature stability of cells is not widely known or complete across all cell types. (If I had a spare quarter of a million to buy the test equipment I would love to characterize all that.) See page 3 https://www.bcg.com/documents/file36615.pdf for pcomparison of properties for Li Ion cells. Flat curve doesn't compete with more capacity in my mind. It may mean a BMS has to be a better design with more precise and accurate control. A less flat curve might mean you can detect a good upper cutoff voltage more easily. Getting that last little bit of capacity into a cell is a good way to trash it. A really good way to get more life from a cell is to cut it off high and low, giving up a decent proportion of capacity in the meantime. Your choice. Tesla packs are large at least in part so they can not charge them fully, and not discharge them fully. On Fri, Mar 27, 2015 at 11:32 AM, tomw via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Actually I think the flat V versus capacity of LFP is an asset. It is what enables you to use Ah used, a nice stable, repeatable measurement, that tracks Wh used quite well over most of the capacity of the pack (I've data logged battery V and I using 1 sample/sec and compared them). I've used a TBS gauge (like Willy) for over 5 years now, and kept track of Ah used to various destinations in a 3x5 notebook I keep in the glove box. As a result, I can look at a route on google maps and from the distance and elevation change estimate to typically within a few percent how many Ah it will take to get there (like David mentioned with the Solectria). A computer could learn that way to...if only David would give it his destinations. :^)) You can't expect all drivers to track things that way though, they just want to get in and go without checking anything. -- View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Re-EVLN-LEAF-EV-Pack-Reliability-Outperforms-Cynics-Critics-tp4674498p4674575.html Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. Thomas A. Edison http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. *Warren Buffet* Michael E. Ross (919) 585-6737 Land (919) 576-0824 https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones Google Phone (919) 631-1451 Cell michael.e.r...@gmail.com michael.e.r...@gmail.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150327/05df6441/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: LEAF EV Pack Reliability Outperforms Cynics Critics (?)
://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150327/78b298f4/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] How I purchased a totaled Leaf for the battery pack
The reason that I increased the price (and barely won) was that I was inexperienced with Ebay. The car was worth it - this was in early 2004, that I bought a 2002 Prius with 12k mi for the winning bid of 6.4k$ but it was salvage with front end damage - I spent a grand total of $11k to get it back to almost new state, incl the Ebay purchase and flatbed to me. I sold it 4 years later for 8k so apparently it was worth it, but I learned a lot from studying the bidding behavior. Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com Email: cwa...@proxim.comPrivate: http://www.cvandewater.info Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130 Tel: +1 408 383 7626Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 -Original Message- From: Michael Ross [mailto:michael.e.r...@gmail.com] Sent: Fri 3/27/2015 12:35 PM To: Cor van de Water; Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] How I purchased a totaled Leaf for the battery pack I buy at the last 5 seconds manually even for a $50 amplifier. If you bid early you just contribute to the auction mentality encouraging others to think it is more valuable than it is. This also forces you to really know what the item is worth to you, because there will be no means to amend the bid. If I was buying a car the way I buy old stereo equipment, I would pick something that is typically undervalued, or underappreciated.(Old Crown D75 amps for example are almost unbreakable and usually worth fixing if not functioning). I would study what seems to be a fair price, for months perhaps, then I would bid at the last moment. If the shills take it high, I won't get carried along. The main trick with eBay is curbing your impulsive urges. If you don't do that, then youneed to have a fatter wallet. Caveat emptor. On Fri, Mar 27, 2015 at 2:18 PM, Cor van de Water via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: After I saw the effect of my bidding for the car that I bought on Ebay and the likely shill-bidding that raised my price by thousands of dollars, I wanted to avoid giving people the chance to shill-bid, so for that it is good to use such a tool. I actually prefer Buy-It-Now auctions and my own selling is mostly BIN also. For the use of auctionstealer (I don't like the name, it gives the wrong impression) you still need to set a maximum price and setup the auction bid in advance, you just close the door for manipulation of price between the moment you bid and the auction end by making it very short. Anyone who bids the highest price still wins. Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com Email: cwa...@proxim.comPrivate: http://www.cvandewater.info Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130 Tel: +1 408 383 7626Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 -Original Message- From: EV on behalf of Lee Hart via EV Sent: Fri 3/27/2015 11:34 AM To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] How I purchased a totaled Leaf for the battery pack I always use auctionstealer to place a bid within 10 sec before the end of an Ebay auction... I simply won't play this game. I feel that it only encourages unfair practices. If I want something on eBay, I decide what it's worth to me. That's what I bid; and no more. If I get it, fine. If I get sniped, so what... another one will be offered soon (maybe from the same guy that bought it at the stupid price, when their spouse finds out). :-) -- Obsolete (Ob-so-LETE). Adjective. 1. Something that is simple, reliable, straightforward, readily available, easy to use, and affordable. 2. Not what the salesman wants you to buy. -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeah...@earthlink.net ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 3959 bytes Desc: not available URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150327/0570586d/attachment.bin ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. Thomas A. Edison http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. *Warren Buffet* Michael E. Ross (919) 585-6737 Land (919) 576-0824 https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones Google Phone (919) 631-1451 Cell michael.e.r...@gmail.com michael.e.r...@gmail.com ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http
Re: [EVDL] How I purchased a totaled Leaf for the battery pack
I buy at the last 5 seconds manually even for a $50 amplifier. If you bid early you just contribute to the auction mentality encouraging others to think it is more valuable than it is. This also forces you to really know what the item is worth to you, because there will be no means to amend the bid. If I was buying a car the way I buy old stereo equipment, I would pick something that is typically undervalued, or underappreciated.(Old Crown D75 amps for example are almost unbreakable and usually worth fixing if not functioning). I would study what seems to be a fair price, for months perhaps, then I would bid at the last moment. If the shills take it high, I won't get carried along. The main trick with eBay is curbing your impulsive urges. If you don't do that, then youneed to have a fatter wallet. Caveat emptor. On Fri, Mar 27, 2015 at 2:18 PM, Cor van de Water via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: After I saw the effect of my bidding for the car that I bought on Ebay and the likely shill-bidding that raised my price by thousands of dollars, I wanted to avoid giving people the chance to shill-bid, so for that it is good to use such a tool. I actually prefer Buy-It-Now auctions and my own selling is mostly BIN also. For the use of auctionstealer (I don't like the name, it gives the wrong impression) you still need to set a maximum price and setup the auction bid in advance, you just close the door for manipulation of price between the moment you bid and the auction end by making it very short. Anyone who bids the highest price still wins. Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com Email: cwa...@proxim.comPrivate: http://www.cvandewater.info Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130 Tel: +1 408 383 7626Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 -Original Message- From: EV on behalf of Lee Hart via EV Sent: Fri 3/27/2015 11:34 AM To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] How I purchased a totaled Leaf for the battery pack I always use auctionstealer to place a bid within 10 sec before the end of an Ebay auction... I simply won't play this game. I feel that it only encourages unfair practices. If I want something on eBay, I decide what it's worth to me. That's what I bid; and no more. If I get it, fine. If I get sniped, so what... another one will be offered soon (maybe from the same guy that bought it at the stupid price, when their spouse finds out). :-) -- Obsolete (Ob-so-LETE). Adjective. 1. Something that is simple, reliable, straightforward, readily available, easy to use, and affordable. 2. Not what the salesman wants you to buy. -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeah...@earthlink.net ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 3959 bytes Desc: not available URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150327/0570586d/attachment.bin ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. Thomas A. Edison http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. *Warren Buffet* Michael E. Ross (919) 585-6737 Land (919) 576-0824 https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones Google Phone (919) 631-1451 Cell michael.e.r...@gmail.com michael.e.r...@gmail.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150327/8868fd98/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] How I purchased a totaled Leaf for the battery pack
After I saw the effect of my bidding for the car that I bought on Ebay and the likely shill-bidding that raised my price by thousands of dollars, I wanted to avoid giving people the chance to shill-bid, so for that it is good to use such a tool. I actually prefer Buy-It-Now auctions and my own selling is mostly BIN also. For the use of auctionstealer (I don't like the name, it gives the wrong impression) you still need to set a maximum price and setup the auction bid in advance, you just close the door for manipulation of price between the moment you bid and the auction end by making it very short. Anyone who bids the highest price still wins. Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com Email: cwa...@proxim.comPrivate: http://www.cvandewater.info Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130 Tel: +1 408 383 7626Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 -Original Message- From: EV on behalf of Lee Hart via EV Sent: Fri 3/27/2015 11:34 AM To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] How I purchased a totaled Leaf for the battery pack I always use auctionstealer to place a bid within 10 sec before the end of an Ebay auction... I simply won't play this game. I feel that it only encourages unfair practices. If I want something on eBay, I decide what it's worth to me. That's what I bid; and no more. If I get it, fine. If I get sniped, so what... another one will be offered soon (maybe from the same guy that bought it at the stupid price, when their spouse finds out). :-) -- Obsolete (Ob-so-LETE). Adjective. 1. Something that is simple, reliable, straightforward, readily available, easy to use, and affordable. 2. Not what the salesman wants you to buy. -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeah...@earthlink.net ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 3959 bytes Desc: not available URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150327/0570586d/attachment.bin ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: LEAF EV Pack Reliability Outperforms Cynics Critics (?)
The Li Ion batteries that I received new from a Nissian Dealer about 5 months ago have a formula of LiMnO4 + LiNiO2 for the Anode. The Cathode is Graphite. The maximum rated voltage is 4.2V. Recommend maximum voltage to use is 4.0 volts. The minimum voltage is down to 2.4V which I will never go down that far. Recommend lowest cell voltage is 2.85V. So far the minuimum voltage is 3.8 volt after driving about 10 miles. The maximum battery running temperature was 68 degrees F and the charging temperature is the same after charging for 45 minutes. The battery pack has six cells in parallel which only receives about 8 amps each charging at 50 ampere at 240 VAC charger. The battery temperature was at 68 degrees F in side the battery box which is insulated to about 30 R Factor. Did not turn on the battery box exhaust fan, because the outside ambient air temperature was greater than 68 F. Maximum ambient out side temperature was 72 F and the inside of the EV passenger compartment was 84 degrees after the EV was setting outside for about 2 hours. This is the first time I turn on the A/C this year. Roland - Original Message - From: Willie2 via EVmailto:ev@lists.evdl.org To: Electric Vehicle Discussion Listmailto:ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: Friday, March 27, 2015 10:13 AM Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: LEAF EV Pack Reliability Outperforms Cynics Critics (?) On 03/27/2015 10:40 AM, Michael Ross wrote: WIllie2 and I were having a back channel about this topic. Willie was thinking that LFP had a voltage simnilar to other chemistries. I thought others might want to see this too. Here is what the Handbook of Batteries 4th Ed. says. From Table 26.3 Characteristics of Some Positive Electrode Materials: Order of entries: Material, Specific Capacity (mAh/g), MIdpoint Voltage vs. Li at C/20, Comments *LiCoO(2) (LCO) 155, 3.9 * Most common, Co expensive =$ *LiNi(1-x-y)Mn(x)Co(y)O(2) (NMC), 140 -180, ~3.8 * Safer, =$, capacity depends on upper cutoff V *LiNi(0.8)Co(0.15)Al(0.05)O(2),200,3.75 * Safe as LCO, high capacity (Tesla?) *LiMn(2)O(4),100 - 120, 4.05 * =$, Safer than LCO, poor temp stability *LiFePO(4) (LFP), 160,3.45 * Very safe, low volumetric energy, processed in inert gas =$ process *Li[Li(1/9)Ni(1/3)Mn(5/9)]O(2), 275 3.8* High specific capacity, low rate capability, RD scale only *LiNi(0.5)Mn(1.5)O(4), 130,4.6* Requires electrolyte that is stable at high voltage I stand corrected. It is implied that to the best of my recollection prefaces every thing I say. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150327/aff52e93/attachment.htmhttp://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150327/aff52e93/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usubhttp://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.orghttp://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRAhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150327/932938b3/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Time for battery change
I would suggest and think it would be advisable to go with the Li-ion if you plan on keeping your car. Additionally, a longer range is achievable, but may be more costly than lead acid. For a Li-ion 17kw pack designed for Volt, your are looking at about $4k. For a 24kw pack designed for the Leaf or Focus, you are looking at about $5k. With proper care you wont be replacing any of these in 5 years or less like lead acid. My experience with Chinese phosphate is not good, failures are unpredictable. Maybe that's why most new electric cars don't use the Chinese batteries. LG chemical seems to be the leader in the Li-ion field and provides cells to most EV manufacturers, except Tesla. Do a comparison of the costs and amortize it over the years you plan on driving the car. Having the Li-ion aboard when selling is a big time plus and will achieve a higher selling price. Lots of luck. -- View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Time-for-battery-change-tp4674585p4674586.html Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Time for battery change
Hello Roger, Contact the Hybrid Auto Center or HybridAutoCenter.Com They have a EV Shop and a EV Parts Shop that replaces and repairs hybrid batteries. You can get either NEW 11kw/h Battery Blocks 182/60Ah completely assembly by the Toyota-Nissan factory or use cells that they assemble and pre balance. Five months ago, I paid $2490.00 per battery. The 11kw/h battery have surface buss bars that normally series 24 each 8.4 V modules that have four 33.3 ah cells with two cells in parallel for 66.6 ah. You can re buss bar the modules by paralleling two modules together for 91 volt at 120 ah. This will have four cells in parallel which is consider as one cell. You would only need a midi 12 cell BMS. A 12 cell group at maximum 8.4 volts per module is equal to 100.8 volts which you will find that will be plenty for your EV. You can always add more modules if need. It best not to charge higher than 4.0 volts per cell or 8.0 volts per module, the maximum charging voltage for 12 module pack is 96 volts. I use three of these Nissan battery blocks in my EV, because the total weight with these batteries are now 5500 lbs. Added 6 more modules pack to up the voltage to max voltage of 225V. I only charge to 216 volts for 4.0 volts per cell maximum. Ask them what you want to do, what space you have in length and width, and they can furnish you a NEW Battery BLock or use modules which they will pre-balance and add addition modules, with all the hardware, assembly end plates, buss bars, and Onion BMS units and BMS wire harness. Roland - Original Message - From: Roger Daisley via EVmailto:ev@lists.evdl.org To: ev@lists.evdl.orgmailto:ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: Friday, March 27, 2015 6:02 PM Subject: [EVDL] Time for battery change After five years in my '86 VW Cabbie, my 96v flooded pack is ready for replacement. I plan on adding two more batteries under the back seat floor, using the Electro-Automotive kit, boosting to 108v. My question to this group is: Should I be considering Lithium, or should I wait for the next battery replacement cycle? I am thinking the Lithium pack will be around $7000. Is this about right? -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150327/dcca8be8/attachment.htmhttp://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150327/dcca8be8/attachment.htm -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 70 bytes Desc: not available URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150327/dcca8be8/attachment.gifhttp://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150327/dcca8be8/attachment.gif ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usubhttp://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.orghttp://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRAhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150327/d3ff8e3b/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
