Re: [EVDL] Fwd: NACS to CCS Adapter - Vortex Plug - 500A, 1000V — Lectron EV

[Marco Gaxiola via EV]

CCS2 was a good thing that happened to the EU because it was the result of
an agreement between several car manufacturers, something that
unfortunately didn't happen in the US, maybe due to the CCS1 Vs CHAdeMO
battle. But CCS2 is simply a copy (3 phase version as Phil mentions) of the
CCS1 which is bulky and heavy connector.

In comparison the NACS (now officially named J3400) is a slim design, easy
to handle by most people, way safer to operate and it is also capable of
500 & 1000V but up to 650 Amps. So a very modest 650KW or max power. Which
ends way superior than both CCS 1 & 2 types. (without mentioning the nice
'press to open charge port' RF feature all NACS plugs have and that most
J3400 manufacturers are considering to include for a great customer
experience)

J3400 is the best thing that could've happened to North America IMO. Yes we
are going to have adapters here and there for a while, but then it's just
going to be J3400's everywhere as the main standard.



On Fri, May 17, 2024 at 2:38 PM (-Phil-) via EV  wrote:

> EU has the 3-phase requirement on AC charging, so there is no elegant 2-pin
> AC/DC sharing like NACS brings to the table.  I do believe NACS is
> superior, lower-cost, more reliable, and easier to handle.
>
> On Fri, May 17, 2024 at 1:32 PM EV List Lackey via EV 
> wrote:
>
> > Interesting to follow this.  In Europe, there's no adapter problem.  CCS2
> > is
> > the standard, including for EU Teslas.
> >
> > CCS2 supports up to 500a / 1000v, though currently the fastest that any
> EV
> > I
> > know of can charge is 350kW (Lucid Air).
> >
> > MCS extends that to 3.75kW (1.25kv, 3ka).
> >
> > David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey
> >
> >
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Tesla cuts 3 major departments

[Ing. Marco Gaxiola via EV]

I support 100% Rush’s comments.

Marco


Sent from my iPhone

> On May 1, 2024, at 7:05 AM, Rush via EV  wrote:
> 
> David -
> 
> Your prejudice against Tesla is so evident and overwhelming. I think that it 
> is
> actually very counterproductive to the EV world. It seems to me that you're
> engaging in partisan politics, and that by continuously denigrating Tesla and
> Elon Musk at every turn you are promoting hatred which as I understand is
> against the EVDL List Conventions.
> 
> You are the moderator of this list and as such should sent an example for the
> rest of us. I think that a little moderation on your part is called for.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Rush Dougherty
> TucsonEV
> 
> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: EV  On Behalf Of EV List Lackey via EV
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2024 4:55 PM
>> To: ev@lists.evdl.org
>> Cc: EV List Lackey 
>> Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: Tesla cuts 3 major departments
>> 
>> Tesla has dismissed 3 entire teams:
>> 
>> - Vehicle and new product development
>> 
>> - EV charging
>> 
>> - Public policy
>> 
>> Tesla had ONE bad quarter.  Boom, they've laid off "at least" 10% of the
> workforce
>> (I've read that it's really closer to 20%).  They've also dumped 3 major
>> development teams and their directors.
>> 
>> The importance of the first two seems pretty obvious.
>> 
>> As I read it, the public policy folks would be the ones to negotiate with
>> governments for clearance to deploy those "robotaxis" that Tesla seems to 
>> have
>> bet their future on.
>> 
>> This after one bad quarter.  It seems a little rash to me, but what do I 
>> know?
>> 
>> In more detail:
>> 
>> 1. Tesla has dismissed Daniel Ho, director of vehicle programs and new 
>> product
>> introduction; and laid off his entire team.  Ho had been with Tesla since
> 2013.
>> 
>> 2. They fired senior director of EV charging Rebecca Tinucci and laid off her
> entire
>> team.  Tinucci was hired in 2018.
>> 
>> 3. Rohan Patel, vice president of public policy and business development,
> resigned
>> earlier this month.  Now Tesla has laid off the entire public policy team.
>> 
>> Musk, in an email: "Hopefully these actions are making it clear that we need
> to be
>> absolutely hardcore about headcount and cost reduction. While some on exec
> staff
>> are taking this seriously, most are not yet doing so."
>> 
>> Presumably (one hopes?) these functions will be taken over by some of Tesla's
>> other "hardcore" (overworked) employees.  Sure glad I'm not one of them.
>> 
>> More info:
>> 
>> https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/04/tesla-to-lay-off-everyone-working-on-
>> superchargers-new-vehicles/
>> 
>> or https://v.gd/lrDabh
>> 
>> https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/teslas-musk-trims-
>> senior-management-amid-more-layoffs-information-reports-2024-04-30/
>> 
>> or https://v.gd/YQoopg
>> 
>> This article seems to suggest that with NACS becoming an industry standard,
> Tesla
>> doesn't really need to participate any more:
>> 
>> https://www.designnews.com/automotive-engineering/tesla-supercharger-layoffs-
>> throw-industry-nacs-shift-into-turmoil
>> 
>> or https://cntp.me/gPhNuPw
>> 
>> -
>> 
>> PS - Apart from the literal-more-than-decimation of Tesla's staff, this makes
> 5 top
>> brass who've left lately.  Some of them had fairly long tenure.
>> 
>> In addition to the 3 above, their longtime vice president of investor
> relations,
>> Martin Viecha, resigned recently.  And earlier this month, Senior Vice
> President
>> Drew Baglino left.  Baglino was in charge of engineering batteries and 
>> motors.
>> He'd been with Tesla for 18 years.
>> 
>> Not exactly a rush for the exits, but still ... concerning.
>> 
>> David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey
>> 
>> To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my offlist
> address
>> here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt
>> 
>> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>> 
>> We have lived our lives by the assumption that what was good for
>> us would be good for the world. We must change our lives so that
>> it will be possible to live by the contrary assumption, that what
>> is good for the world will be good for us.
>> 
>> -- Wendell Berry = = = =
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>> 
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> 
> 
> 
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Re: [EVDL] Tesla mobile charge controller 32A, now 16A

[Marco Gaxiola via EV]

Maybe it's one of the temperature sensors on the plug side or the AC inlet
side, either the sensor itself or the wiring/terminals gone bad or dirty
that interconnects to the EVSE?
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/wheres-the-temperature-sensor.212002/

Pages 11 & 12: You must be having either from 1, 2 or 4 red flashes while
still charging on your mobile charger LED indicators, according to this NA
manual if this is the case.
https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/pdfs/charging_docs/gen_2_umc/Gen2_UMC_Manual_en_US.pdf


On Thu, Jul 20, 2023 at 2:12 PM Mark Hanson via EV 
wrote:

> Hi folks
> Does anyone know how to take apart a Tesla mobile charge controller?
> After 65K miles charging it dropped to 16A, initially only when the sun
> shined on it (heated internal thermistor), but now it’s all the time. It
> may be fuzzy relay contacts.  I’ve seen small charge controllers like open
> EVSE.com have similar issues, clean contacts, then ok.  Great god Google
> shows a guy breaking the glue seal destroying it to get apart - which will
> leave me with a 0 amp charge controller :-)
> Best regards
> Mark
>
> Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [EVDL] White House welcomes Tesla to take advantage of federal dollars for chargers

[Marco Gaxiola via EV]

On Tue, Jun 20, 2023 at 11:35 AM Jay Summet via EV 
wrote:

>
> So I would expect the SAE and other national standards groups to have
> more influence than any single company, as they typically represent a
> broad swath of the industry.
>


The interesting part here is that 'the broad swath of the industry' now, in
the US and NA is Tesla, Ford, GM, Rivian, Aptera and most of EVSE companies
by moving into NACS.

So who the broad swath of the industry is (or moving towards to be very
soon) and who should the government support now?


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Re: [EVDL] 120VAC from my truck?

[Ing. Marco Gaxiola via EV]

The only one that comes to my mind now is the onboard generator from the Ford 
F250 hybrid or the F150 Lighting. 

These go straight from 300-400Vdc In to either 120/240Vac Out. But are CAN 
controlled, so CAN messages would have be hacked and a dealership to sell you 
the unit alone. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 31, 2022, at 9:48 AM, John Lussmyer via EV  wrote:
> 
> One thing I'd really like to have is about 2000W of 120VAC available from my 
> F250 conversion, with a pack that will be 300 to 400vdc.
> Anyone know of an inverter that will do that?  AND cost less than a new car?
> 
> --
> Worlds only All Electric F-250 truck! 
> http://john.casadelgato.com/Electric-Vehicles/1995-Ford-F-250
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Re: [EVDL] FrankenVolt coming along...

[Marco Gaxiola via EV]

That is correct, none of the HV wiring outside the battery pack will
energize, before those internal HV contactors pre-charing, closing and
energizing the HV bus first before any HV module can draw or add energy
from the pack.

The magic process starts typically when you plug your J1772 EVSE on a
120Vac outlet. (L1) there is only a small number of modules on the Volt-EV
that wakes up after Pilot signal handshaking with the EVSE, and all this
happens on the 12V side first.

After a few validations, one of those awaken modules have the ability to
wake up the BMS inside the battery pack and also provide 12V power, so the
BMS can close the HV contactors (generally 2 for charging), and those may
be ones requiring most power than everything else during that L1 session.

To put in some numbers: maybe 3 CAN modules awaken drawing 1A each, plus
those 2 HV contactors, maybe 1A each = 5Amps total, that would represent
70watts approx. This without considering if the DCDC also wakes up and your
12V battery is low and requires charging. Although this would be
temporarily and as soon your 12V batt enters floatation mode, that power
will be insignificant.

So, in the case you would be able to do all that magic, to avoid opening
the pack and bypass that HV circuitry; then you may want to have a trigger
point from your PV that can ensure you will not produce less power than
that 'static' required to keep those 12V modules. And still you would be at
risk if the vehicle 12V batt is too low, rather than charging the HV pack,
you will discharge it for maybe 20-40mins. But the good thing on this is
that your 12V batt will be full now and that is the most important thing to
start with. (no 12V batt, no HV even-though HV batt full).

But not a grid-tie inverter, that will not work if it doesn't see a 120V
since wave, you just need a 12Vdc -> 120Vac 1.5Kw continuous power
inverter, powered by an additional 12V battery that is charged from your
PV. That may be the most practical way, not best efficient, but easy to do
method if I'm not missing something else.



On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 8:39 AM Robert Bruninga via EV 
wrote:

> I assume those conductors are not alive until the main contactor inside
> the battery box is activated.  And once those are activated through some
> kind of volt software magic, the static load of powering up the system
> will draw more power than the 240 watts the solar panels can produce.
>
> Bob
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: EV  On Behalf Of Peter VanDerWal via EV
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] FrankenVolt coming along...
>
> > Oh, and I still welcome anyone with info on where I can easily access
> > the 300V battery terminals for charging.
>
> > Maybe use vampire splice connectors on the high voltage cables to the
> Accessory "Power Control Module" in the trunk?
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Re: [EVDL] FrankenVolt coming along...

[Marco Gaxiola via EV]

Hey Robert,

I was wondering and tempted to email you to ask what was your progress on
that. Keep us posted, want to know how you'll solve charging the HV battery
from your PV.

With regards an 'easy' way to access to the HV battery terminals. I believe
it won't find that. You either will have to power and gain control of the
internal electronics in order to close the HV contactors and make an
external splice on the HV wiring, or you'll have to open that pack and
manually tap before those contactors.

Be careful when cutting any HV orange wiring for doing the splice; they
come with a dual insulation with a grounding shield wrap in between (like a
Coax TV cable, but way more sophisticated). And if you don't take proper
precautions in keeping the high impedance/good isolation against GND; you
will set isolation faults on your Volt ECU (DTCs).

Marco

On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 7:44 PM Robert Bruninga via EV 
wrote:

> The FrankenVolt is coming along: http://aprs.org/my-EVs.html
>
> The front panel and the added two-panels are finished.  I'm working on the
> side curtains now for when the hatch is set level.
>
> Last night, I got the design in place made of cardboard to make the
> patterns and see if they would fit.  They do!  Now all I have to do is
> sneak in some build-time between honeydoos.
>
> Oh, and I still welcome anyone with info on where I can easily access the
> 300V battery terminals for charging.
>
> Bob, WB4APR
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Re: [EVDL] Battery pack sizing.

[Marco Gaxiola via EV]

A few questions Lawrence;

Is the charger you'll use programmable to a desired cut off voltage?

If so, What is the Max operational voltage for your controller? Maybe you
can make your array with as many cells in series as closest to max
controller operational voltage when cells at max. be top of charge. Usually
this would only happen right at the end of a full charge and would last
only a few minutes. But the more cells in series; the more energy and less
current in the system.

If your charger has a fixed top off voltage, you technically have to attach
to that voltage and match the right # or cells in the series circuit.

I'm assuming you are using LiFePO4 chemistry because of the 3.3V you
mentioned. That chemistry, typically has a max V of 3.65V (3.7V some cases
although I wouldn't recommend it). Typical 72V controller can support up to
90V operational (100Vish Max, depending on internal caps).

That would be 90/3.65 = 24 Cells in series, then as many strings in
parallel >> 87.6V charger cutoff voltage. Hope this can help.


Marco Gaxiola

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 1:50 PM Lawrence Rhodes via EV 
wrote:

> I am having trouble deciding weather 20, 21, or 22 batteries are the right
> series string for a 72vdc battery.  for a 3.7 volt battery 20 seems to be
> right.  However I have A123 batteries and nominal is 3.3vdc.  Videos on
> YouTube are inconclusive. Sellers details not complete.  Any advice
> appreciated. I'd like to run 1 or two strings for a small ebike battery.
> The controller only draws 40amps.  Lawrence Rhodes
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Re: [EVDL] Back to the future Volt

[Marco Gaxiola via EV]

Hey Lee, Rob,

 Ahh if the hack is something you can do safely, then let's do it. But
want to mention some other things to consider:

- Lee, yes, using that half portion of a 12-120Vac inverter is a great
idea, I've done that before and is especially efficient (high frequency V
step-up electronics). But in the case of a 12-120V inverter, those will
only get to a max of 300V (in fact, it is a little bit less. Usually the
Caps are 300V Max. rated) and in the case of the Volt (almost any actual EV
in the market) are made of 96 cells in series, which have a voltage span
from 310V to 403V..ish from 0 to 100% SOC. (Volt x cell goes from 3.25V to
4.2V approx.) so that inverter wouldn't be able to provide enough high
voltage to 'transfer' the energy from the solar panel. a 12-240Vac inverter
would be needed instead.

- Then, how would you control the current on the HV side? those inverters
usually dump as much power as possible and it is up to the HV H-Bridge (the
one in charge of creating the AC since wave), the one that measures current
to prevent the damage of their electronics. In this case, if you
successfully make the voltage go higher how that would be controlled?
Also, since the 12-120V inverter does not have MPPT like all solar charge
controllers, if the sun is not powerful enough (at dusk and at down or in
partial shadow) the inverter will try to get more power out the solar, but
the solar panel won't be able to meet that request and then the inverter
will halt and that may damage it or create weird behavior.

- Third; if you dump that power directly into the HV battery, the on-board
BMS won't be able to sense/track that (since it will be on sleep mode) and
after some hrs of energy transfer accumulated, you will 'Off-set' the BMS
parameters and pretty sure the gauges on your dashboard will become
inaccurate and maybe set some trouble codes as well.  The other concern is,
what if you are almost fully charged and you start 'overcharging' cells
with no BMS supervision/management? I don't think it would be a good idea.

- Finally, adding that HV circuitry, may also impact the internal HV
isolation for the complete wiring system. Again, with the possibility to
set trouble codes on the BMS and worst case scenario; prevent it from
closing HV contactors when about to drive.

...my 2 cents


Marco Gaxiola

On Mon, Feb 17, 2020 at 10:38 AM Gail Lucas via EV 
wrote:

> Bob,
>
> So nice to have you back. It will be interesting to see your new project
> when you are putting it together. I hope you recover quickly so you can
> resume your activities.
>
> Gail
>
>
> On 2/16/2020 1:10 PM, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote:
> > When I recover in a few months, you can see my ideas for flattening the
> roof
> > and  adding 240W of solar panels to my Volt in a Back-to-the-future
> design
> > on this web page.  Also adding a bed for a Volt-Inn.
> >
> > I know it makes no practical economic sense, but makes it a real
> eye-catcher
> > and conversation starter.
> >
> > Now all I have to figure out is where I can feed in the 300 VDC for
> charging
> > the HV battery...
> >
> > http://aprs.org/my-EVs.html
> >
> > Bob
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> >
> >
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Re: [EVDL] Back to the future Volt

[Ing. Marco Gaxiola via EV]

Hey Rob.. 

Hopefully you recover quickly and ready for that EV project. 

With regards using the 240W solar to charge the HV battery; that may not be 
that easy if you want to do that Straight DC to DC:

- First you will need to have an efficient DC-DC step-up converter from 
20-40Vdc into something around 300-400Vdc with MPPT feature. (Not easy to get). 

- Then the most complicated part you’ll have to wake certain modules up from 
the Volt (BCM, HV charger, BMS and maybe a few other) so it can properly track 
the energy being generated by your solar panel. 

   But that won’t be easy. In fact, it will be quite complex since all these 
modules requires to see the AC power from the EVSE, sense the pilot and 
proximity signals in order to close HV contactors. And those conditions may not 
exist or if they do, may set Trouble codes since no AC will be present. 


An idea just came to my mind,  very very basic but efective suggestion 
would be: to build a box with a considerable size 12.8V LiFePO4 battery, an 
‘Off the shelf’ solar charger controller and a 1.5Kw 12v-120v AC inverter to 
generate Level1 enough to use the Volt onboard charger. 

An internal automatic inter connection in between the inlet charge port can 
be made, so nothing can be seen from outside while charging from solar.

The solar panel will continuously charge the 12.8V lithium pack all the 
times. When enough charge and vehicle is turned off, it can start L1 charging 
the car. When the charge on that lithium battery goes low, the charge 
controller will automatically cut off the output but the solar will continue to 
charge the battery to a minimum set point, after some minutes/half hr. output 
will re-enable and L1 charge re-start for a few minutes again. 

This process can go over and over as long there is sun and car requires the 
charge. It’s not the best and most efficient way but will work with no problem. 


Marco


Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 16, 2020, at 11:29 PM, Robert Bruninga via EV  
> wrote:
> 
> When I recover in a few months, you can see my ideas for flattening the roof
> and  adding 240W of solar panels to my Volt in a Back-to-the-future design
> on this web page.  Also adding a bed for a Volt-Inn.
> 
> I know it makes no practical economic sense, but makes it a real eye-catcher
> and conversation starter.
> 
> Now all I have to figure out is where I can feed in the 300 VDC for charging
> the HV battery...
> 
> http://aprs.org/my-EVs.html
> 
> Bob
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Re: [EVDL] Anyone familiar with "Better Place" EVSEs?

[Ing. Marco Gaxiola via EV]

Peter, sometimes those units have one PCB board that’s the one that makes the 
vehicle handshaking with and it interfaces with another PCB which is usually 
the ‘unlocking’ one after a payment/identification process. 

Can you send me (offline) a few high-res pictures of one open showing the 
cabling and circuitry? maybe I could help disabling that interface and leaving 
it free.  

Maybe there’s a switch for that or simply if you disconnect that interface the 
EVSE side will default to free. 

Marco Gaxiola 


Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 19, 2020, at 12:18 PM, Peter VanDerWal via EV  
> wrote:
> 
> I picked up a couple of the DUAL cord units but apparently they require an 
> RFID card to activate each cord.
> Does anyone know if it's possible to set them up to charge without the RFID 
> card?
> If not they are a nice collection of parts that I can use to build my own 
> EVSE.
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Re: [EVDL] Ground Fault

[Marco Gaxiola via EV]

On my opinion John,

 If you were able to properly isolate that fault to ground right to
your DC-DC converters, you should fix that (independently how critical
those DCDC are for your Zilla or anything else). On a HV system, safety is
the most important thing to be taken into consideration over anything else.

  With that said, I would recommend you to:
- First: identify if the fault is just in one DC-DC or both, if its one,
probably you could have a defective component inside or just some 'dirt'
terminals, connector, trapped moisture, etc. creating that small current
leak. If both DC-DCs got the fail, don't even attempt to replace them by
same PN. throw them away and get a completely new brand/version with
similar capabilities.
- Usually all OEM EVs have two main contactors, one for +, one for -. So
does BMS; also have the ability to check either the + and the - sides for
isolation faults. This is in order to minimize the risk of an electrocution
to human bodies over all. Check for your BMS for the ability to do both + &
-, if not, You should perform the missing side manually to ensure no more
faults.
- Once you have fixed/replaced your DC-DCs/isolation problem, 'test' your
BMS to confirm it is properly detecting new ground isolation faults and
that has the ability to 'disable' your main contactor(s). Or at least,
notify you there is an isolation problem so you don't attempt to ever touch
any + or - terminal at any time.
- Your BMS must be also able to track isolation issues from your AC onboard
charger while charging, so if should also 'disable' your charger in case
there is a ground fault on it as well.

Marco Gaxiola




On Sun, Nov 10, 2019 at 11:45 AM John Lussmyer via EV 
wrote:

> I seem to have a ground fault in my truck.
> I was working on the BMS, and when my finger touched one of the busbars, I
> got a shock. (forearm was leaning on the truck frame.)
> To find where it was coming from, I put a 1K resistor in series with my
> meter lead, tied the other end to ground, and set the meter to read ma.
> Touched the other lead to the pack, about 1/3 from one end - about 1.3 ma.
> Turned off the main breaker, which splits the pack into 4 (odd sized)
> sections.
> No leakage from the middle 2 sections, but about 0.4ma leakage amounts
> from either of the 2 "end" sections (about 32v ea). (both still have one
> end connected to the truck systems.)
> So I start disconnecting truck systems.
> Found that the leakage seems to be coming from the 2 small DC-DC
> converters (actually, power supplies) that I use to keep the Zilla powered
> up, and maintain the 12v battery.  Both of these are UL approved isolated
> power supplies.
>
> Now what?  I need the DC-DC's, but I really do NOT want a ground fault.
>
> --
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> http://john.casadelgato.com/Electric-Vehicles/1995-Ford-F-250
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Re: [EVDL] LiFePO4 Thermal Imaging Opinions?

[Ing. Marco Gaxiola via EV]

Are you sure it is an internal cell failure and not just a loose or dirty 
connection within the bussbar?  The heat on that image looks only on one area 
from the whole cell. Keep in mind that those ‘prismatic’ cells comes on tens or 
hundreds of thin rectangular layers with the same shape of the plastic 
enclosure. And a high internal resistance developed in cell chemistry would 
probably show up an evenly hot across the enclusure. (Please correct me of 
wrong). 

Why don’t you try first to check for a poor electrical contact at that spot, 
clean it, re-tighten it and repeat your test?  

Marco Gaxiola 


Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 30, 2019, at 8:57 PM, Mr. Sharkey via EV  wrote:
> 
> Time to turn up the dial on the technical channel.
> 
> After converting my car to a lightly-used set of Thundersky 160's, I've 
> finally gotten around to having some thermal images taken of the cells after 
> running the car up to temperature. My purpose was to make sure that none of 
> my cell interconnect wiring (copper strap stock) was heating up. What I found 
> was somewhat unexpected. One of the 38 cells was showing an elevated 
> temperature from the rest.
> 
> First, the IR image of the right-hand half of the pack, taken from behind the 
> car. the suspect cell is at the center cross-hairs:
> 
> http://www.westlanetv.org/~sharkey/evgfx/IR_0677.jpg
> 
> A close-up of the cell, looking from the front of the pack. It's been 
> photoshopped to blend the IR image with the visible image to provide some 
> perspective of the actual appearance:
> 
> http://www.westlanetv.org/~sharkey/evgfx/Hot_Cell_2.jpg
> 
> The car ran a 15 mile trip at about 55 MPH, pulling 100 - 125 amperes most of 
> the way. A couple of 275 - 300 amp sprints pulling out into traffic, etc.  
> Photos were taken immediately thereafter.
> 
> All of the cells had been carefully (manually) balanced a few days before the 
> photos were taken. During balancing, this cell was about 15 ampere-hours 
> lower than most of the rest of the pack, but not the lowest of the 8 cells 
> that needed attention. It came right up with a balancing charge. None of the 
> other cells showed any variance in temperature in this series of photos.
> 
> Questions for the list:
> 
> The cell isn't actually "hot" but it's obviously warmer than the rest. What's 
> everyone's take on this one cell warming up? Can I just assume that it may 
> have higher internal resistance, and therefore more heating under load? Is 
> the heating indicative of a coming (perhaps spectacular) failure?
> 
> I've got about 1,600 miles on this new pack, and it seems to be performing 
> well. I'd like to keep using it in this configuration, but if it seems risky 
> to continue loading this one cell, it ~could~ be jumpered out of the pack 
> (not my first choice).
> 
> Opinions or advice?
> 
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Re: [EVDL] L1/L2 EVSE for $189

[Ing. Marco Gaxiola via EV]

Tesla I believe is the only one who comes with the ‘mobile connector’ which is 
a L1/L2 up to 32amps max.  With a wide variety of 240vac adapters. 

https://www.tesla.com/support/home-charging-installation/mobile-connector

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 28, 2019, at 4:40 AM, paul dove via EV  wrote:
> 
> All the production cars I have seen come with 120v Evsei
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Aug 28, 2019, at 6:07 AM, Willie via EV  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 8/27/19 6:40 PM, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote:
>>> Just saw this L1/L2 EVSE for $189.  Comes with L1 to L2 adapter.
>>> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07BM1XT4Q?ref=em_1p_1_ti&ref_=pe_354360
>>> _428066720
>> 
>> There seems to be a new generation of lower priced EVSEs "out there". eBay 
>> has some 16a/240vac for less than $160.  But, without the 120vac adapter.  
>> My experience is that any 240vac EVSE will work on 120vac but not vice 
>> versa, so you should be able to configure an adapter for 120 and 240 
>> operation.
>> 
>> These are now cheap enough to be considered for "carry around" units to be 
>> able to hook up to 240 when the need arises.
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Re: [EVDL] Powerwall Equivalence / watts

[Ing. Marco Gaxiola via EV]

I did exactly that last year when I was living in Michigan during winter time. 

I ran to an autozone, bought a 1000W peak 600w continuous or so 12v inverter 
and hooked it up to my 2011 Fusion Hybrid and was able to run the furnace (gas 
igniter and blower) to keep us warm during a 4 hr power outage. 

Remember hearing the engine kicking On only a few times to recharge the HV 
battery. 

Marco Gaxiola 


Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 7, 2019, at 3:37 PM, Robert Bruninga via EV  wrote:
> 
> Just hook up any ol'e 12v-to-120v AC inverter (about $100) to the 12v
> battery.  Then put the car into ON, and you can draw the power from the
> 12v system until the HV battery is dead on a BIG EV battery days later or
> until the gas tank is empty in a hybrid.  The car will take care of
> itself.
> 
> They all have 1kw (prius and Leaf) or 2 kW (Volt) DC/DC converters that
> maintain the 12v system from the HV battery.  Automaticallly.
> 
> Bob, Wb4apR
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: EV  On Behalf Of evtlfp20 via EV
> Sent: Wednesday, August 7, 2019 12:33 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List 
> Cc: k...@peakfoto.com
> Subject: [EVDL] Powerwall Equivalence / watts
> 
>  on the cars you mentioned, what kind of wattage, where to hookup and
> procdures do have to do to get 120 vac or 12 dc out of them?
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Re: [EVDL] V2H

[Ing. Marco Gaxiola via EV]

I believe there may be two main reasons:

a) is that they may be waiting the right moment, that will boost other Tesla 
news etc. Probably when launching the truck. 

b) may be more of a complex software and business strategy to successfully 
deploy it among all existing M3 owners and especially EV fleets. Like for 
example: updating the car software to show new screens with graphs and 
databases with buy/sell schedules while plugged in, similar the phone and web 
apps to monitor KWh/$ earned. And of course Including legal just like Lee Hart 
mentioned it. I know all commercial ‘grid tie’ products in the market, must 
pass certain electrical tests to ensure they can safely disconnect in case of 
over/under voltages, changes in frequency, etc. 

And I can also see two different approaches: one would be the grid tie service 
(I believe this will be the biggest target) and the second will be off-grid to 
give the M3 ability to work as a stand-alone AC generator (power blackouts, 
camping, etc.)

The firs one could also easily even work without any house electrical 
modification, everything thru the L1 or L2 EVSE. 

As a power generator, EVSEs would have to be different than actual ones to 
‘receive power’ from the M3 before powering AC devices. Or maybe they will come 
up with a special AC outlet that will plug right into the charge port. 

It could even work like Rivian, to provide charge from one M3 to any other EV 
on the road. 


With regards the cost, I actually was surprised the way they designed the whole 
‘penthouse’ area (how I heard it’s been called); they packaged the onboard 
charger and DC-DC converter into one sole PCB, and next the HV contactors and a 
‘country/region AC adapter PCB, saving lot of money on individual HV and LV 
wiring and connectors, avoiding use of individual cooling loops, coolant hoses 
& fittings, mounting brackets and die-cast metal enclosures like most other 
OEMs use to do (individually packing each component, find a mounting location 
and then interconnect everything)

They used only one piece ‘cold plate’ to remove heat from all hi-pwr 
semiconductors, transformers and coils, the design from my point of view was 
awesome and the best I’ve ever seen. 

Probably the bi-directionally feature may add cost, yes. But all other 
improvements and efficient packaging they did seems to me that they beat all 
competitors cost over all. 




Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 29, 2019, at 1:27 PM, Lee Hart via EV  wrote:
> 
> From: Alan Arrison via EV 
>> It seems odd Tesla would have that capability available and not mention 
>> it. It seems like it would add cost.
>> 
>> I was thinking more about an off board inverter that would connect to 
>> the vehicle fast charge port.
> 
> 
> Perhaps it is a legal issue? In most parts of the US, the local power 
> companies sought (and were granted) a legal monopoly on selling electricity. 
> 100+ years ago, they wouldn't wire your city unless you gave them a monopoly 
> on selling power.
> 
> So pushing power back into the grid has been interpreted as "selling" power 
> by some lawyers.
> 
> 
> --
> Excellence does not require perfection. -- Henry James
> --
> Lee A. Hart http://www.sunrise-ev.com
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Re: [EVDL] V2H

[Ing. Marco Gaxiola via EV]

It is not actually that big, last year I was able to presence a Model 3 tear 
down, from a very early VIN and I found that the onboard harger was already 
hardware enable to perform that. 

The electronic design was made to work worldwide, 3 or 2 phase, 120/240vac and 
with a very simple architecture that allows the charger take power back from 
the HV battery, step it down using same step-up transformer used to charge, 
convert it into a sine wave and send it back to the grid or work like an 
island. Converting the car work like a stationary energy storage system. 

I don’t know why they haven’t released that feature yet to public, maybe 
waiting the right moment, waiting from the software team (car updates, app 
release, energy management Inet platform, etc.) or maybe they just made a few 
cars with those and forgot about that, which I don’t think so. 

The Model 3 charger architecture I saw was based on a similar design like the 
one on this page: 
https://powerpulse.net/6-6-kw-bi-directional-ev-on-board-charger-reference-design/
(After a quick search on my phone)

So just changing a few traditional components on a standard charger you can 
make it bi-directional. And it’s up to the control side where it becomes the 
challenging part. 


Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 27, 2019, at 7:22 PM, Alan Arrison via EV  wrote:
> 
> I had been wondering why something like this hadn't been done yet.
> 
> However, it is by no means a done deal. They have a big problem to solve. 
> They would have to work with all the automakers to have the vehicles allow 
> access to the battery through the charge port and allow power to flow out of 
> the battery.
> 
> Good luck with that.
> 
> Al
> 
>> On 7/27/2019 9:33 AM, Willie via EV wrote:
>> Anyone know anything about this:
>> https://cleantechnica.com/2019/07/26/wallbox-launches-in-us-china-adds-residential-bi-directional-dc-fast-charger/
>>  
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Tesla drops cheapest models &cuts prices (v)

[Marco Gaxiola via EV]

I agree with Michael, Elon is the only billionaire putting his money where
his mouth is. He is been so close several times of loosing his fortune for
what? for doing all us a favor of bringing electrification and not
dependency on oil, to have better and more solar, to have energy storage
systems at home and help reduce the oversized world wide grid (that is all
designed based on peak demand, not continuous demand), a person who is
looking to create a backup of our own species in case of a catastrophe in
our world.. what else?  putting more of his money and ideas into trying to
solve big cities mobility thanks to The boring Co. and latest, improve the
human life and ability to easy access/boost the power of internet through
Neuralik.

Who else (Billionaire, extremely smart, visionary and truly committed) is
pushing this in our world? bill gates, Bezos, Zuckerberg?, can't mention
any car company CEO that would do that, they all are just looking for $$
not a real change for our society.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXcgBfi4xxo


On Sun, Jul 21, 2019 at 11:06 PM Michael Ross via EV 
wrote:

> Dave,
>
> You seem to have a strong urge to rag on Tesla and Musk whenever you can.
> That seems unwarranted. They have done a lot in an incredibly difficult
> industrial environment, working at something no one believed possible, and
> actually have a lot of success, though they may yet fail. We will all
> benefit from their efforts. They tried to implement new ideas that were
> worth trying.  Musk and all the engineers and other employees deserve
> praise, regardless if Musk acts stupid at times. Maybe you don't like the
> PT Barnum stuff, but that too was helpful and perhaps necessary.
>
> <
> http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail
> >
> Virus-free.
> www.avg.com
> <
> http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail
> >
> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>
> On Sun, Jul 21, 2019 at 10:21 PM EVDL Administrator via EV <
> ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:
>
> > On 21 Jul 2019 at 8:35, brucedp5 via EV wrote:
> >
> > > Tesla also lowered the starting price of its mass-market Model 3 to
> > $38,990
> >
> > Uh ... so what  happened to that $30k electric car we heard Musk talk
> > about
> > for all those years?  It seems to have tipped off the road into the same
> > ditch as the electric Chevette that GM promised us in 1978.
> >
> > David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> > EVDL Administrator
> >
> > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> > EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
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> >
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>
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Re: [EVDL] Differential issue

[Ing. Marco Gaxiola via EV]

Hey Tom, 

You could also take a look at the gear boxes this company ‘Torque Trends’ has 
in Arizona. 

https://www.torquetrends.com/

I’ve seen and worked with their products before and those boxes are really 
though lasting parts. 

Maybe they can help you

Marco Gaxiola 



> On Jul 5, 2019, at 4:04 PM, Brett Davis via EV  wrote:
> 
> Any competent 4x4 shop should be able to rebuild it, or replace it with
> something similar.
> 
> They are constantly rebuilding differentials and axles or swapping in
> stronger units.
> 
> Brett
> 
>> On Fri, Jul 5, 2019, 2:23 PM Tom Hudson via EV  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi All,Our 1995 Solectria E10 (converted Chevy S10) has a failing
>> differential. Our mechanic checked it out and when he drained the lube it
>> was a "metal milkshake". The truck is still driveable but the diff will
>> eventually completely fail.According to James Worden (founder of Solectria)
>> these differentials were custom made by Halibrand, and it looks like
>> they're long gone.Does anyone know of a shop that would be capable of
>> rebuilding this differential?Thanks,-TomSent from my Verizon, Samsung
>> Galaxy smartphone
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Re: [EVDL] EV stalls

[Marco Gaxiola via EV]

On my opinion..

   No, it is not your controller; your batteries are the problem.

   Lead-acid batteries can not provide big ammount of power for long
periods of time (acceleration) due to a big 'Peukert effect' and especially
when they are low on SOC, at a high current request it must be creating
your whole pack voltage to drop below the minimum 1221C voltage threshold
creating that abrupt loss of power. If you decrease the amount of current
requested, then no voltage drop will occur and you will be able to continue
for a little bit more.

   But you will then take your pack to very low SOC that will only make if
worst.

   To confirm this, just hook up a volt meter when driving, make a WOT and
see the voltage sag at full SOC and then after 50% like you mentioned, If
the batteries are the problem; you will see a big difference in between.
Most probably your pack has lost 50 or 60% of its original capacity and
either you must re-adjust your e-meter to match actual capacity or check
your pack for bad batteries or new pack. Hope this helps.

Marco Gaxiola


On Sun, Apr 7, 2019 at 5:29 PM hazemsedra via EV  wrote:

> This forum has been great for helping me out since 2009.
> My Ford Escort(108 volts Deep cycle, Curtis 1221C controller) at times
> stalls on me,
> loss of power when i press the pot. The problem seems to occur most when I
> have used more than 50% of my battery charge. When the batteries are fully
> charged, no problems the first 20 or so miles.
> I don't lose complete power but when I am low on juice and I try to
> accelerate, the loss of power occurs.
> Is it my controller? Any advise that I can give to my mechanic who has
> basically kept me going these last 9 years.
> Thanks
> Hazem
>
> --
> Sent from: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/
> ___
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>
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: (spied) Tesla Pickup Test Mule EVs transported on car-carrier

[Marco Gaxiola via EV]

Because it is a heavily Camouflaged vehicle. And that is the intention, to
persuade all spy/curious photographers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVcaZVxdTss

Altough the image from Teslarati with a truck full of Teslas and that Truck
at the top-end of the trailer doesn{t seem all right. Why heavy camouflage
a 'mule' test vehicle, where all the 'secret stuff' is mostly under body?
So my guess is this two possible things:

- Either Tesla transportation policy or just simmply the guys what loaded
that truck, has no idea of how to proceed with camo vehicles. Usually they
are shipped on flat and totally enclosed trailers, where not photographer
can see anyting from it. Especially underbody.

- Second one (most likely to me) is that this was a totally intentional
move from Tesla. All companies also use the 'Camo' strategies to catch the
attention of people, especially to those auto industry 'paparazzis'; in
order to gain first place on magazines and news and of course create more
public attention.

Marco Gaxiola


On Tue, Mar 12, 2019 at 2:55 AM Jorg Brown via EV  wrote:

> If that's really an F-150 truck body around some Tesla internals, why does
> it have a tailpipe?
>
> On Mon, Mar 11, 2019 at 11:25 PM brucedp5 via EV 
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-pickup-truck-test-mule-sighting/
> > Tesla pickup truck potential test mule spotted on carrier near testing
> > facility
> > March 7, 2019  Simon Alvarez
> >
> > [image  / streff/Reddit)
> >
> >
> https://www.teslarati.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/tesla-pickup-truck-test-mule-camouflage-1.jpg
> > ]
> >
> > An eagle-eyed member of the Tesla community might have just snapped the
> > first picture of a Tesla pickup truck test mule. The sighting transpired
> on
> > Wednesday in Ohio, and it involved a truck car carrier full of Tesla
> > electric cars, plus one heavily wrapped pickup truck with a Ford F-150
> > body.
> >
> > Tesla has used the body of other vehicles for its test mules in the past.
> > Before the company unveiled the Tesla Semi, a test mule of the electric
> > long-hauler was spotted with what appeared to be a Cascadia truck body. A
> > video of the vehicle even showcased the now-recognizable acceleration of
> > the
> > all-electric truck. Thus, it will not be too surprising if Tesla is
> > adopting
> > the same strategy with its pickup truck test mule, using a Ford F-150
> body
> > for the vehicle.
> >
> > Also interesting is that the sighting of the camouflaged pickup truck
> > happened in Eastern Ohio. The area is close to the Transportation
> Research
> > Center Inc. (TRC), where Tesla is known to conduct vehicle testing. Back
> in
> > 2017, sightings of almost a hundred Model 3 were reported at TRC’s
> > facilities as the vehicles were undergoing tests. Could the mysterious
> > pickup truck and its fellow Teslas be headed towards (or perhaps leaving)
> > the testing facility? Such a scenario is not implausible.
> >
> > Together with the mysterious pickup were several Teslas that were covered
> > in
> > road dust, grime, and salt. A Model 3 at the rear of the car carrier even
> > had a long rectangular license plate, suggesting that it was a vehicle
> > designated for Europe (credit to r/TeslaMotors subreddit member u/streff
> > for
> > the photo of the vehicle).
> >
> > Elon Musk has stated that the Tesla Pickup Truck will be unveiled
> sometime
> > later this year. The Tesla CEO has also mentioned that the vehicle will
> be
> > very futuristic to the point where it will not look out of place on the
> set
> > of the Blade Runner franchise. Musk has also teased some of the vehicle’s
> > features, including a range of 400-500 miles per charge, dual motor AWD,
> > and
> > a 240-volt connection for heavy-duty tools, and up to 300,000 pounds of
> > towing capacity.
> > [© teslarati.com]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> http://www.autospies.com/news/Tesla-Pickup-Test-Mule-Caught-In-The-Wild-98653/
> > Tesla Pickup Test Mule Caught In The Wild!
> > The sighting transpired on Wednesday in Ohio, and it involved a truck car
> > carrier full of Tesla electric cars, plus one heavily wrapped pickup
> truck
> > with a Ford F-150 body. Tesla has used the body of ...
> >
> >
> http://www.autospies.com/images/users/Agent009/main/tesla-pickup-truck-test-mule-camouflage-1.jpg
> >
> >
> > +
> >
> >
> https://www.yorkregion.com/opinion-story/9213004-do-i-deserve-my-new-tesla-electric-car-/
> > Do I deserve my new Tesla electric car?
> > 2019-03-08   So, the question still remains: Do I deserve an electric
> car?
> > My mind plays tricks on me about this question. Three years ago, I
> > “downsized my life” and moved to ...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
> >  http://evdl.org/archive/
> >
> >
> > {brucedp.neocities.org}
> >
> > --
> > Sent from: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/
> > ___
> > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> > http://lists.evdl.o

Re: [EVDL] What to do with used LiOn CALB batteries?

[Ing. Marco Gaxiola via EV]

 Why don’t you use them to build your own home energy storage system at 
home? You can build a 48v system (3P-16Series of your CALBs) you would have 
180Ah x 3. Couldn’t those cells still have at least 30% capacity left, Maybe 
more? But enough to power your home for half a day on basic appliances like 
lamps, internet and TVs. 

  If you want to go pro, you could use the VFXR series from Outback Power 
(http://www.outbackpower.com/products/inverter-chargers/fxr-vfxr-series) which 
is a 120/240 since wave inverter grid tie and island capable, and have the 
ability to charge from the grid/solar, buy and sell electricity depending on 
your rates from day/night and power your house in a black out event. 

  At least that’s what I’d like to do on my next opportunity.

Marco Gaxiola 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 9, 2018, at 9:09 AM, Barry Oppenheim via EV  wrote:
> 
> I recently took my Saturn Vue EV out of service and have 48 LiOn cells in
> my garage.  I am trying to find a way to *dispose/donate/sell them*.
> 
> Does anyone know if *regular metal/battery recyclers* take them?  I did try
> to give them to someone but the cross country shipping logistics were a
> nightmare. I live halfway between Philly and NYC.
> 
> If I decide to keep them does anyone see any problems or *safety issues*
> having them sit in a heated garage, partially to mostly discharged, for a
> couple years?
> 
> Cell details
> 48 Calb 180Ah cells (they have not been charged for at least two years)
> The cells were put into service in 2011 and have ~3 miles on them.  I
> estimate ~500-600 partial charge/discharge cycles.
> www.justanotherevconversion.blogspot.com
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Barry
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Re: [EVDL] Electric Noise and using capacitors to fix it

[Marco Gaxiola via EV]

Hello Steve,

 A few questions;

   - When you say 'the BMS flickering On-off' what do you mean?  Does the
BMS complete turns off, and that shuts your power train off as well?

   - What kind of drive train system are you using and what voltage?

   By putting capacitors between the your pack + or - to 'Chassis' you are
just increasing the capacitance for the internal BMS isolation circuit,
Most internal isolation fault circuitries from BMS's use to connect, for
fractions of a second;a very high value resitor with the (+) side and
performs a leak test. Then disconnects and then connects to the (-) side to
perform same leak test as well.   The process continues all the time.
Puting those capacitors and increasing the uF rate will only delay that
fault test, maybe up to a point that your BMS no longer will be able to
check for islolation faults.

   Regards...


Marco Gaxiola

On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 4:38 PM Steve Clunn via EV  wrote:

> I'm having some problems with a conversion with 7 Tesla modules 42 cells.
> When giving the car a little go pedal the BMS starts to flicker off and on
> even though the cell voltage is not dipping. I put some .47 UF capacitors
> between the frame and the battery packs at different points. Some seem to
> help but I'm still got one BMS that is triggering on its own. Done the wire
> moving around so they're not near the cables but that didn't seem to help
> much. I'm wondering if I'm using two larger capacitor what is the rule of
> thumb for the size of capacitors to get rid of noise on these lines. Any
> help would be appreciated. Steve clunn
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[EVDL] Nikola Motor sues Tesla over design patent violation

[Marco Gaxiola via EV]

https://www.electrive.com/2018/05/02/nikola-motor-sues-tesla-over-alleged-design-patent-violation/


Nikola Motor has filed a lawsuit against Tesla claiming the Semi electric
truck to be “substantially” similar to Nikola Motor’s own design of a fuel
cell electric semi truck. In the filing, the infringement is estimated to
be worth a loss of 2 billion dollars to Nikola. Tesla denies the
allegations.

The lawsuit is based on six design patents issued in the U.S. between
February and April 2018 for its Nikola Motor’s wrap windshield, mid-entry
door, fuselage, fender, side cladding and the overall design of the Nikola
One. Hence Nikola’s claim of the infringement being substantial.

Tesla had reportedly revealed

 the Semi electric truck last November and has since been taking orders
from the likes of FedEx
, DHL, or
UPS and also opened the books in several European countries (we reported

).

Back to the court case and the filing that reads: “Nikola estimates its
harm from Tesla’s infringement to be in excess of $2 billion,” although it
is unclear where Nikola takes this number from. The U.S. American company
had presented their fuel cell truck Nikola One
 in
December 2016 and has since been taking orders. So many in fact, that just
a few weeks ago, the company announced it would not require any deposits
any longer and that is had received pre-orders valued at 8 billion dollars
already (we reported

).

It appears as if Nikola Motors is really wanting (or having) to go head to
head with Tesla in the race for the electrification of the heavy duty
vehicles business. Whilst Tesla is loosely planning to launch the Semi
electric truck around 2019 or 2020, the Nikola One and Nikola Two fuel cell
trucks are only due by 2021.

Nikola plans to build

 a 1 billion dollar manufacturing facility for its fuel cell trucks near
Phoenix, Arizona next year.
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Re: [EVDL] Need help with Series Wound Dc motor controller.

[Marco Gaxiola via EV]

You can learn from this guy who designed his own controller some time ago,
now he runs his own brand a some great products:
http://zeva.com.au/Research/ControllerDesign/

But I can tell you from own experience: Designing your own stuff, like a
high power motor controller is not a Cheap thing. You will require lots of
trial and error, learn and explode lots of MOSFets or IGBTs and that
requires time & money, but satisfaction once your prototype is running
smooth and nice is huge.

If you are looking for cheap stuff (Cost), then you can only choose one
more the two left: Time or Quality. But they'll never come all three
thogether.



On Thu, Feb 8, 2018 at 6:25 PM, John Lussmyer via EV 
wrote:

> On Thu Feb 08 14:38:19 PST 2018 ev@lists.evdl.org said:
> >Hi I am a hobbiest and started my first conversion, I have a car that I
> got retro fitted with a Series wound DC motor. I tested the car with
> batteries alone and it did move. I am designing a controller for the DC
> wound motor. I am running into a few issues with the controller. The
>
> One good place for controller building/design work is:
> > Evtech mailing list
> > evt...@lists.nnytech.net
> > http://lists.nnytech.net/listinfo/evtech
>
>
>
> --
>
> Worlds only All Electric F-250 truck! http://john.casadelgato.com/
> Electric-Vehicles/1995-Ford-F-250
>
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Re: [EVDL] BMS recommendation/ experiences?

[Marco Gaxiola via EV]

Hi Philip,

I talked to Mark from Thunderstruck some months ago about their BMS, it is
a really nice equipment and very accessible on price. But I was unable to
use it since it was on its end of development stage by then.  But as
reference, I can 100% recommend their EVCC (Charge controller) which was
designed by the same team, if this helps.

On the other hand, I can tell Orion BMS is one of the best battery
management systems I've use so far. It is quite complicated to wire and
install the first time (I've installed several of them) but is Pro device,
really close to a car OEM BMS. And just for reference, I uploaded a 32min
YouTube video for a friend of the main wirings:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jj5kWc4v6A&t=2s   It's on Spanish, but if
that helps, great!

Marco Gaxiola

On Wed, Dec 20, 2017 at 12:48 PM, Philip Rash via EV 
wrote:

> Hello, I've been driving my Dakota truck EV conversion for over 7 years,
> and finally pulled the plug & bought a lithium battery pack. (46 CALB
> cells, which should arrive this week!). Now I'm looking at BMS's, and am
> curious if anyone has any experience with the Thunderstruck BMS? (
> http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/bms/ ). Positive/ negative experiences
> from
> anyone who's used it would be appreciated; I'm also considering Lithiumate
> or Orion, but those seem quite a bit pricier. Thanks!
> Philip
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Re: [EVDL] Heat pump vs resistive Heater (never buy another AC unit)

[Marco Gaxiola via EV]

In a house I have in Hermosillo Mexico, a desert area with extreme hot
weather and dry winters, tipically from 40-45C (113F) in the sumer and
nearly 0C (32F) freezing temps, but always below 50% humidity, makes it
mandatory to have an air conditioning systems. My experience about 2yrs
ago: we used to have multi-split AC units (only for cooling) during the
summer and small 1.5Kw ceramic heaters for heating at each of two bedroom
in the winter time.

Last year we replaced the splits AC units for a new ones with heating
capability (heat pump ones) just like the one Bill Dube mentioned. It is a
beauty to see those unit work!  Are very quiet, and realy efficient. We
noticed a significant winter electric bill drop due to less energy
consumption on heating. No gas/furnace is use in MX cause elecricity is
cheaper than gas.

Before installing the equipment, I didn't wanted to have in the roof
without looking inside the units and considering I could have void the
warranty, I decided to open one and see how the thing worked; The
compressor was a 3 phase AC motor technology driven by a 240Vac smart
controller, taking the AC from the utility, making HV DC and then
modulating the right amplitude and AC frequency into the motor for maximum
efficiency. So does the same thing for the outside/inside fans. When I saw
that, I mapped the controller power electronics and came with the idea
that; If I was able to directly feed HV DC power right at the capacitors
bank before converting the DC energy into variable AC, I could technically;
make it work with a HV DC battery or solar array system or at least a
hybrid system during day/night.

That became a personal project to start building but I had to stop it since
I moved to another place. But then I was able to find other systems that
actually are sold just like that: Hybrids heat pumps:
http://www.hotspotenergy.com/solar-air-conditioner/

..which tecnically is an all 3 phase driven unit with a step-up DC-DC power
supply (from 20-40V to 300V DC). Awsome!

I also do have an 'evacuated tubes' solar water heather with a 30G thermo
tank, and it works wonderfull for that house. That thing makes the water
boil every single day in a sunny summer day that I have to partially cover
it (no other water heater system is needed for the house needs)

My point of all this is: Maybe PV solar is not 100% efficient, but using
the generated electricity to produce heat on a heat pump system may be as
well as efficient to using direct solar water heating. Just like it was
mentioned before, a heat pump is technically a 'heat exchanger' depending
of the perspective you see it (for cooling or heating) and the energy used
is for the exchange process not to produce heat as resistive heaters. But
solar water heaters are 'Passive' components that may last 10X times that
any heat pump device with actual techology, consume zero energy (other than
the sun) and have zero moving parts.  Both can store energy during the
night and both methods have different applications at different needs.





On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 10:26 AM, Peri Hartman via EV 
wrote:

> In your case, Cor, I think insulation is the key. If heat loss is minimal,
> the gradients inside will be minimal. Insulation would also make a big
> difference in an EV. But not so easy, perhaps.
> Peri
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Cor van de Water via EV" 
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
> Cc: "Cor van de Water" 
> Sent: 29-Nov-17 10:30:23 PM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Heat pump vs resistive Heater (never buy another AC
> unit)
>
> Jim,You perfectly describing the situation where the design of the heating
>> system is inadequate for the building, which typically happens when it was
>> not designed but someone just installed something and hoped for the best.My
>> mom had her house converted to floor heating, which included insulation
>> under the floor. I do not know a house more comfortable than hers, while
>> she has significantly reduced her heating costs. The heat capacity and
>> insulation is such that the house loses only a few degrees overnight when
>> her heater is off. Actually the thermostat is just reduced a few degs but
>> the heater does not come on all night even with freezing temps outside. Our
>> house loses several tens of deg in a few hours...
>>
>>
>> Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
>>  Original message From: jim--- via EV 
>> Date: 11/30/17  7:19 AM  (GMT+02:00) To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <
>> ev@lists.evdl.org> Cc: j...@k6ccc.org Subject: Re: [EVDL]  Heat pump vs
>> resistive Heater (never buy another AC unit)
>>
>> Cor van de Water said (in part):
>>
>>> I have always been amazed by how most of USA has forced air blowing
>>> around through their house, which I find
>>> rather uncomfortable. I am from Europe, where you have radiators under
>>> windows that are warmed with
>>> warm water and air in the room naturally circulates at a very low speed
>>> (natural convection) throughout the ro

Re: [EVDL] JDL404 AH Meter power draw?

[Marco Gaxiola via EV]

John,

   The manual I have says: 'Operating Power: DC8-30V/2W', so that could be
at the most: 66.7mA

Marco Gaxiola

On Sun, Jul 9, 2017 at 5:24 PM, John Lussmyer via EV 
wrote:

> Anyone know how much 12V power this meter uses?
> (yes, I could measure mine - except that it's dash mounted, and just
> getting to the power wires is a rather major undertaking.)
>
> --
> Worlds only All Electric F-250 truck! http://john.casadelgato.com/
> Electric-Vehicles/1995-Ford-F-250
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Re: [EVDL] Electric compressor for EV+Battery heating (heat pump)

[Marco Gaxiola via EV]

Ohh those pads looks nice..

Thanks for the advices, Yes, I think cooling the batteries in the summer
time won't be a big problem (compared to the Arizona's / Sonora's wheater;
excessive heat) Since I found the average temperature there doesn't go
avobe 25°C

my biggest concern was the idea of using the AC as a heat pump, but you
have clarified this, thanks!


Marco Gaxiola

On Sun, Apr 9, 2017 at 8:22 PM, Peter C. Thompson via EV 
wrote:

> You can also get heating pads designed for lead-acid batteries - these
> tend to be rugged and acid proof.
>
> Example:
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000I8VL16/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_
> ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=ECZS9XXRJF00&coliid=I1DAV5PWDDSP7T
>
> Cheers, Peter
>
>
> On 4/9/17 9:07 AM, ROBERT via EV wrote:
>
>> Why re-invent the wheel.  I have some aircraft NICAD batteries.  They
>> have a heating pad in each battery box and a thermostat.  Each battery box
>> has a inlet and outlet for forced air circulation.  Just buy some of these
>> heating pad.
>>
>>
>> 
>> From: EV  on behalf of Cor van de Water via
>> EV 
>> Sent: Saturday, April 8, 2017 6:29 PM
>> To: Marco Gaxiola; Electric Vehicle Discussion List; Jukka Järvinen
>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric compressor for EV+Battery heating (heat pump)
>>
>> Marco,
>> If you are concerned about battery temp in summer, then you can always
>> Add a fan that pushes air into the box and an exhaust with self-closing
>> flap
>> At a high (warm) point that will let air out when the fan pressurizes the
>> box.
>>
>> What others have found is that you try to balance the amount of insulation
>> Such that the pack will stay warm enough long enough, but not as much
>> insulation
>> That it will overheat easily, so essentially you need to estimate how
>> much heat
>> You produce charging and driving and then size the insulation value
>> accordingly.
>> If this gives an unrealistic solution then active heating (resistive
>> typically on
>> Shore power only) and possibly active cooling (just blowing ambient air
>> through
>> The box, typically, no A/C for batteries please, we don't need a new EV1.
>>
>> Hope this clarifies,
>> Cor.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Marco Gaxiola
>> via EV
>> Sent: Saturday, April 08, 2017 10:49 AM
>> To: Jukka Järvinen
>> Cc: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric compressor for EV+Battery heating (heat pump)
>>
>> Thanks for the reply...
>>
>> its in Norway..
>>
>> Thanks for the advice. We've been thinking on a heat pump system, but not
>> sure if it worths all the complexity of the system to put in the vehicle
>> considering heat is for sure gonna to be used during winter, but what about
>> summer time? do they use the AC for colling in the summer?
>>
>> Otherwise, just a resistive heating element would be the simplest way to
>> go?
>>
>>
>> Marco Gaxiola
>> energyev.com
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 12:56 PM, Jukka Järvinen 
>> wrote:
>>
>> What do you consider 'a very cold area in north europe"?
>>>
>>> Easy advice for batteries:
>>> Insulation, insulation, insulation.
>>>
>>> :)
>>>
>>> For cabin one can direct charger cooling fan to circulate air over night.
>>> Most important is to keep moist out as people tend to cloth themselves
>>> during beach weather (-10C) and when it's actually cold (-35C and below).
>>> It is pretty unconfortable if cabin is too warm (>+18C).
>>>
>>> -Jukka
>>>
>>>
>>> to 6. huhtikuuta 2017 klo 22.42 Marco Gaxiola via EV
>>> 
>>> kirjoitti:
>>>
>>>  I'm helping a friend to design a conversion battery pack for a
>>>> very cold area in north europe and was wondering if someone here has
>>>> used an electric AC unit as a heat pump, either for heating up and
>>>> comfort of the passengers on board, as well; and most important; to
>>>> keep the battery pack warm enough on blow freezing temperatures.
>>>>
>>>> Marco Gaxiola
>>>> energyev.com
>>>> -- next part -- An HTML attachment was
>>>> scrubbed...
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>>>> attachments/20170406/51844c9c/attachment.htm>

Re: [EVDL] Electric compressor for EV+Battery heating (heat pump)

[Marco Gaxiola via EV]

Thanks for the reply...

its in Norway..

Thanks for the advice. We've been thinking on a heat pump system, but not
sure if it worths all the complexity of the system to put in the vehicle
considering heat is for sure gonna to be used during winter, but what about
summer time? do they use the AC for colling in the summer?

Otherwise, just a resistive heating element would be the simplest way to go?


Marco Gaxiola
energyev.com

On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 12:56 PM, Jukka Järvinen 
wrote:

> What do you consider 'a very cold area in north europe"?
>
> Easy advice for batteries:
> Insulation, insulation, insulation.
>
> :)
>
> For cabin one can direct charger cooling fan to circulate air over night.
> Most important is to keep moist out as people tend to cloth themselves
> during beach weather (-10C) and when it's actually cold (-35C and below).
> It is pretty unconfortable if cabin is too warm (>+18C).
>
> -Jukka
>
>
> to 6. huhtikuuta 2017 klo 22.42 Marco Gaxiola via EV 
> kirjoitti:
>
>> I'm helping a friend to design a conversion battery pack for a very
>> cold area in north europe and was wondering if someone here has used an
>> electric AC unit as a heat pump, either for heating up and comfort of the
>> passengers on board, as well; and most important; to keep the battery pack
>> warm enough on blow freezing temperatures.
>>
>> Marco Gaxiola
>> energyev.com
>> -- next part --
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>> group/NEDRA)
>>
>>
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[EVDL] Electric compressor for EV+Battery heating (heat pump)

[Marco Gaxiola via EV]

I'm helping a friend to design a conversion battery pack for a very
cold area in north europe and was wondering if someone here has used an
electric AC unit as a heat pump, either for heating up and comfort of the
passengers on board, as well; and most important; to keep the battery pack
warm enough on blow freezing temperatures.

Marco Gaxiola
energyev.com
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Re: [EVDL] A craigslist EV Geo Prism local!

[Marco Gaxiola via EV]

Interesting; Seems like it is automatic transmission...


Marco Gaxiola

On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 5:41 PM, Cor van de Water via EV 
wrote:

> Fred,
> I could not see a link or location, but I think you refer to this one in
> the Miami/Daytona Craigslist, location specified as Edgewater:
> https://daytona.craigslist.org/bar/5978291416.html
>
> Cor van de Water
> Chief Scientist
> Proxim Wireless
>
> office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water
> XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info
>
> http://www.proxim.com
>
> This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and
> proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you received
> this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any
> unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of
> this message is prohibited.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of fred via EV
> Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2017 4:23 PM
> To: via EV
> Subject: [EVDL] A craigslist EV Geo Prism local!
>
> I subscribe to the Barn Finds newsletter and almost ignored the Geo
> Prism listed for US$750.00. Something that low priced isn't necessarily
> worth filling the tank, except in this case, the tank is electric!
> I clicked on the craigslist link and discovered it's located about 30
> minutes from me. Very little information in the post, other than that
> it's a US Electricar construction. Not running condition and the seller
> is motivated to get rid of it as he is leaving town or something like
> that.
>
> EV Geo Prism only 4,843 miles project! $750!
>
> |
> |
> |
> |   ||
>
>|
>
>   |
> |
> ||
> EV Geo Prism only 4,843 miles project! $750!
>  Very rare car all electric with only 4,843 miles. Moving out of state
> and can't afford to bring with. Paid a...  |   |
>
>   |
>
>   |
>
>
> Granted, it's not in the best of shape, but I'd expect there's some
> promise to it. With five EVs in the driveway now, there isn't a chance I
> can manage to fit another one.
>
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Re: [EVDL] MAXIMUM VOLTAGE: Curtis 1238-6501

[Marco Gaxiola via EV]

Hi Michael,

  Just as Tom says, the 1238-6501 Curtis controller is designed for 80V
nominal voltage systems.  I did the mistake to order this controller for a
32 lithium cells 3.2V x cel, 102.4V nominal and realized too late when I
tryed to run the system on a just fully charged pack. I noticed the
'pre-programmed' high voltage cutoff from HPEVs software was 105.1Volts
altough the internal caps can support little higer.

  I would not recommend to go to the factory OS if it comes from HPEVs with
the motor as a kit. Especially if you have latest firmware versions. HPEVs
firmware version has lot more performance than Curtis OEM version.

Marco Gaxiola
EnergyEV.com


On Mon, Feb 20, 2017 at 1:35 PM, Tom Keenan via EV 
wrote:

> The 1238-6501 uses 48 to 80 volts DC (nominal). The voltage of the pack
> will likely be a bit higher than the nominal rating.
> As an example, a 48 volt (nominal) lead acid pack might have a fully
> charged resting voltage around 52.5 volts, and similar 72 volt pack would
> have a resting voltage just under 80 volts. If someone made up an 80 volt
> pack, the resting voltage would be about 88 volts or so.
>
> That being said, what is more important is the highest voltage expected on
> the system. This will happen when the battery pack is being charged. The
> maximum voltage on a 72 volt pack while finishing a charge is about 92 to
> 96 volts, or about 100 to 104 volts on an 80 volt lead acid system. These
> are approximate numbers. (finishing/equalizing voltage varies by battery
> manufacturer, and occasionally by charger programming facility).
>
> The highest potential charging voltage for an 80 volt nominal system is
> close to the 108 volt number you have - I would consider that to be an
> absolute maximum voltage that is encountered on rare occasions.
>
> Anything higher than an '80 volt' pack risks popping this controller.
> Staying with 72 volts max (nominal) will give you a good safety margin and
> longer controller life.
>
> Tom Keenan
>
> > On Feb 20, 2017, at 10:17 AM, m gol via EV  wrote:
> >
> > Hello
> >
> > What is the maximum voltage of a Curtis 1238-6501 controller?
> >
> > EVWest is telling me 75 volts, but I have heard 108volts?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Michael
>
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[EVDL] AC induction motor, rotor heating up..

[Marco Gaxiola via EV]

 I have a question: Is that possible to have an AC induction motor to work
apparently normal but, after a moderate use, get the rotor coils very hot?
Not the stator neither the controller, just the rotor.

Marco Gaxiola
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Re: [EVDL] Recent Model EV Conversion - CAN and accesories to work..

[Marco Gaxiola via EV]

David,

   I'm sorry, I did not picked the right word/phrase. (maybe say, 'thank
you for refer/recommend your product'...)  Yes, I understand the EVDL
guidelines but I did not express it correctly. I moderate an EV group in
Spanish and that is a simlar case. Anyway, thank you for remind this and
keep it like, this DL has been a great resource instrument for knowledge.

Marco Gaxiola

On Wed, Jan 4, 2017 at 7:57 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV  wrote:

> On 3 Jan 2017 at 21:43, Marco Gaxiola via EV wrote:
>
> > Collin; I think it is ok to advertise as long it is usefull to people
> > on this forum, like me.
>
> Advertise?  No. Announce? Maybe.
>
> The EVD is non-commercial.  That means no advertising as such.  However,
> discussing your products and/or services in a factual, non-promotional way
> can be OK when the discussion goes in that direction.
>
> Please read the guidelines about this on the EVDL help page (section 3 of
> the Conventions):
>
> http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
>
> Sorry they're so long!  I've tried to cover things fairly thoroughly.
>
> I generally try to stick pretty close to these guidelines, and ask you to
> do
> the same.  However, I may be more or less flexible than what you see there,
> depending on many factors, including the overall tone of a particular post
> or thread.
>
> If you're at all in doubt as to how you align with the guidelines, please
> contact me off-list to discuss what you want to mention before you post it.
> My private address is here:
>
> http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#supt
>
> Thanks.
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not
> reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my
> email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
>
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Re: [EVDL] Recent Model EV Conversion - CAN and accesories to work..

[Marco Gaxiola via EV]

Thank you all..

So, from the CAN bus point of view it would be more a 'software' challenge
and like some of you said; every model and even every vehicle version, may
have different propietary protocols, etc.
- We are talking of using a device like the one Collin suggests. Collin; I
think it is ok to advertise as long it is usefull to people on this forum,
like me.
- This new device would totally replace the ECU module thru the CAN bus.
- Would be a very clean and Pro. installation. Since software is easy to
reproduce, cost could be really low once developed correctly.

Cons:
- There could be impossible/unsolved codes on certain models or vehicles.
- every new vehicle-model would be a high cost-testing time to resolve.


On the other hand; Simulate the engine would imply a 'hardware' challenge,
plus some firmware development and as long the sensors doesn't change too
much from one model or brand to another, it could be a possiblity to go?
- Working on the engine sensors, would be mostly analog signals and some
digital ones, easier to code and control
- Could be a generic board, for several vehicles regardless the version of
sensors, year, etc.
- CAN bus after the ECU would be kept totally clean and orignal betewwn all
devices.

Cons:
- More than 10 outputs to simluate all sensors required, maybe 20?.
- Hardware PCB to design and manufacture and test on automitive environment


Cor, thank you for those suggestions on the Sparkplugs and Cat converter.
Something comes to my mind, doing the simulation board.. doesn´t necessarly
need to have all sensors wired and simulated. It is like when some sensor
fails (on a gas version), it triggers some DTCs and lights up the 'check
engine' light, but but the vehicle still working. And as long our desired
devices are working too (such steering, turn signals, AC, etc) in Gas
version, then it should do on electric too.

Collin, This CANDue is a fully free programmable unit I can put my code for
replacing the ECU? I may contact you off list to get more details on this

On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 3:47 PM, Tom Parker via EV  wrote:

> On 04/01/17 04:50, Collin Kidder via EV wrote:
>
> I don't think that generic sales pitches are acceptable on this list
>> but since it is topically relevant I'd like to quickly mention that I
>> am involved in the creation of many pieces of hardware and software to
>> aid in these things.
>>
>> CANDue: http://store.evtv.me/proddetail.php?prod=EVTVDue2&cat=23
>> SavvyCAN: http://www.savvycan.com
>>
>
> Along these lines, the audio from https://xi.hope.net/schedule.h
> tml#-2016-car-hacking-tools- is worth a listen and gives links to
> http://opengarages.org/index.php/Tools (which includes Colin's SavvyCAN)
> and other resources.
>
> More advanced, https://media.ccc.de/v/33c3-8131-dieselgate_a_year_later
> shows how to glitch a VW ECU to bypass the flash read-protect and retrieve
> a firmware image (also the technical Dieselgate information is interesting
> but off topic). Going from a firmware image to an emulated ECU is probably
> the hard way to make a modern car work without it's ICE.
>
>
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[EVDL] Recent Model EV Conversion - CAN and accesories to work..

[Marco Gaxiola via EV]

I'm in the middle of a 2013 EV conversion project (well is not a very
recent), but as some of you may know; newer vehicles comes with more and
more electronics that operation of some devices and features of the vehicle
relies on the ICE data and information being generated by the ECM (OEM
computer) thru the CAN Bus.

When you convert a vehicle like this, you face some problems by the
abscence of the running engine such:
- non electric powered steering.
- non operation of the AC unit (assuming the AC compressor and everything
is there like original).
- non working turn signals.(some models with digital turn signals)
- missing gauges on the instrument cluster like RPMs, speedometer, etc.
plus a bunch of red and amber known warning lights on. (and of course a lot
of DTC codes when reading the OBD port)
- etc...

I tryed to find other threads about this subject but did not find any, at
least not recently. So I decided to post this one, hope that someone has
already face this problem and become able to fully convert newer models
without affect most OEM features from the vehicle.

If someone has done this, please share your experience. But if not, let me
explain my thoughs and share your comments/feedback of what you think or
suggest me to do:

- My first idea is to design a small PCB with a micro on it, that would
simulate most ot the analog and digital signals that the ECM needs from all
the sensors on the gas engine to keep it running like the water temperature
sensor, oil pressure, cranckshaft sensor, oxigen and manifold sensors (MAF
and MAP), etc.  My theory is that this could be a simple way (since most
sensors are analog 0-12V, 0-5V of On/off outputs) that are not so complex
to emulate, and doing this way; the ECM would believe the ICE is there
running all fine and perfectly.

  Of course, the algorithm and maybe some of the simulated PCB outputs
would have to be changed on every different model of vehicle. (every
manufacturer uses many different sensors). But it would be a nice device if
same vehicle is beeing converted, like in a fleet project.

- The second thing, would be to go on a higher leve of
microcomputer-microcontroller design that would allow to talk to many of
other units on the vehicle thru the CAN bus, trying to replace those
specific commands and data generated by the ICE, needed by those devices to
correctly operate, Such RPM and speed for the electric power steering as
example.

  The challenge here would be that, like the one before; every model and
vehicle brand, has propietary CAN communication protocols that would be a
monumental job to reverse engineer and interpret those codes, isn't it?


I'm not so familiar with automotive CAN procols altough I undestand CAN bus
at the communication/physical level.

Any thougths or suggestions?


Marco Gaxiola
EnergyEV.com
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Re: [EVDL] Regen on AC Inverter

[Marco Gaxiola via EV]

Robert,

Up to I understood by Lee Hart email; No, The IGBTs are partially energized
during regen, this in order to induce some magnetic field on the coils and
then wait to have that small portion on power back, increased x times, like
a 'bounce back' from the coils that now gets back thru the IGBTs internal
diodes. So I think this is why it doesn't matter (almost) the RPMs of the
motor when is on Reneg mode, since the same controller induces an exact
ammount of power on the coils at the exact moment (determined by the
encoder, which plays a really critical role here) so the motor can put back
that energy thru the diodes.

I think the inverter behaves like a Boost or Step-up power supply, by using
the motor coils to store a small ammount of energy, and then release it
back, plus the kinetic energy from the spinnin (actually Regen) to put it
back to the batteries.

I guess this is how you can set the Regen power. By increasing that power
induced in the coils before having it rectified by the dioes.

Also, This kind of AC systems (motor+inverter) have the ability to 'brake'
only, without regen. Which I could say (Unless Lee Hart corrects me) works
by inducing that small current same way like regen, but then; when the
power is getting back, the IGBTs are turned partially on again and shorts
circuit that current making the motor to brake and dissipate that enery
solely on heat thru the inverter heatsink, am I correct?


Lee Hart via EV wrote:
  'every "DC" motor is really an AC motor'...   that was a really nice
and interesting point of view!!


On Mon, Jan 2, 2017 at 10:51 PM, ROBERT via EV  wrote:

> I can conclude from what you say that during regen mode none of the IGBTs
> are energized.   Therefore, only during drive operation are the IGBTs
> switched.  Since the car is slowing down during deceleration, the motor
> RPMs are decreasing.  At some point, the voltage generated by the motor
> will drop below the voltage of the battery and the battery will quit
> charging.  However, the motor RPMs are not zero and energy is still being
> produced by the motor.  Where is the energy dissipated?  In the diodes are
> in the motor winding?
>
>
>
> 
> From: EV  on behalf of Lee Hart via EV <
> ev@lists.evdl.org>
> Sent: Monday, January 2, 2017 7:06 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Regen on AC Inverter
>
> Ing. Marco Gaxiola via EV wrote:
> > I agree with robert, how the inverter is capable of 'charge the battery'
> from regen when at very low RPMs?
>
> OK, the first key to understanding is that the six IGBTs each have a
> diode connected across it. The six diodes are wired in a standard
> 3-phase rectifier configuration. (If you didn't have these extra diodes,
> you couldn't do regen).
>
> The next key point is that the motor is inductive. Once you start a
> current flowing in an inductor, it wants to KEEP flowing even if you
> turn off the IGBTs.
>
> OK, so put these two concepts together. The IGBTs start a current
> flowing in the winding. Then they are *both* turned off. The inductive
> current has no place to go except through the diodes. So the voltage
> across the winding will rise until it finds a path -- through an upper
> diode, through the battery pack, through a lower diode and back to the
> winding.
>
> The direction of this current just happens to be a charging current for
> the battery. :-)
>
> > Another doubt I would add is; different than when using the system as
> > 'motor' with the 6 IGBTs putting power in a specific sequence on the
> coils.
> >  But how an AC induction motor can work as a generator without any
> > 'natural magnets' that would induce energy back on the coils? (Like it
> > works on DC generators)
>
> A DC series or shunt motor with no magnets can also work as a generator.
>
> Whether AC or DC, the controller is doing the same thing: It applies a
> current to "excite" the field, then quickly uses this field to generate
> power before it decays away. Since the field only needs 1-2% of the
> power, you can get a lot more power out than you put into the field.
>
> Cor van de Water wrote:
> >> An AC motor is by definition a motor that needs 3-phase (or more) AC
> >> power.
>
> Well, not exactly. Two-phase, and even single-phase AC motors are very
> common.
>
> For that matter, every "DC" motor is really an AC motor, with a built-in
> DC-to-AC converter. It's the commutator on a brush-type DC motor, or a
> little inverter in a "brushless DC" motor.
>
> >> The direction of power (acceleration or braking) is only
> >> determined by the phase (direction) o

Re: [EVDL] Regen on AC Inverter

[Ing. Marco Gaxiola via EV]

I agree with robert, how the inverter is capable of 'charge the battery' from 
regen when at very low RPMs?

Another doubt I would add is; different than when using the system as 'motor' 
with the 6 IGBTs putting power in a specific sequence on the coils.  But how an 
AC induction motor can work as a generator without any 'natural magnets' that 
would induce energy back on the coils? (Like it works on DC generators) 

Is that the inverter 'excites' the coils first (using the battery pack voltage) 
and then harvest the power X times greater?

Marco Gaxiola
EnergyEV.com

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 2, 2017, at 5:30 PM, ROBERT via EV  wrote:
> 
> As always with me yes and no.  I understand the use of a bidirectional buck 
> boost inverter for varies battery types or supercap usage.  However, I need 
> more info on the switching of the H-Bridge during regen.  An AC inverter has 
> 6 IGBTs is H-bridge configurations.  Two IGBTs are assigned for each motor 
> phase (upper and lower IGBT).  The upper IGBT is never switched on when the 
> lower IGBT is energized and vise versa.  A dead time is included between 
> switching.  By switching the 6 IGBTs in a certain sequence, the 3 phase 
> voltages are created.  I understand all this.  What I do not understand is 
> the switching sequence that occurs during regen.  In addition, as the vehicle 
> slows down, the motor acting as a generator outputs a decreasing voltage 
> because the RPMs are decreasing.  The motor/generator is outputting a 
> decreasing 3 phase voltage.  If the voltage is less than the DC voltage of 
> the battery, there is no potential to charge the battery.  How do you get the 
> AC converter t
 o 
> DC to charge the batter?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: EV  on behalf of Cor van de Water via EV 
> 
> Sent: Monday, January 2, 2017 4:43 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Regen on AC Inverter
> 
> Robert,
> An AC motor is by definition a motor that needs 3-phase (or more) AC
> power. The direction of power (acceleration or braking) is only
> determined by the phase (direction) of the current.
> So, an AC controller will always automatically include the ability to do
> regen.
> 
> The requirement for example with the Toyota Prius from MY 2004 onward to
> use a bi-directional boost converter is because the engineers wanted to
> use a 200V battery as well as have 500V at the inverter to increase
> power and speed over the 300V that was the battery voltage of the
> 2001-2003 Prius.
> 
> Hope this clarifies,
> 
> Cor van de Water
> Chief Scientist
> Proxim Wireless
> 
> office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water
> XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info
> 
> http://www.proxim.com
> Proxim - Wireless Broadband, Backhaul Solutions and Access 
> ...
> www.proxim.com
> Proxim Wireless offers licensed and unlicensed point to point, backhaul, 
> bridge, point to multipoint, wireless broadband and wireless access points.
> 
> 
> 
> This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and
> proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you received
> this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any
> unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of
> this message is prohibited.
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of ROBERT via EV
> Sent: Monday, January 02, 2017 3:10 PM
> To: ev@lists.evdl.org
> Subject: [EVDL] Regen on AC Inverter
> 
> In order to accomplish regen with an AC inverter on an all electric
> vehicle are the IGBTs modulated or is a buck boost circuit added to the
> inverter?
> 
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Re: [EVDL] Inside EV's headline - Get Ready For A War -

[Marco Gaxiola via EV]

I guess Rush meant 'crushed' in a figured way because those crushed cars in
the 90's were leased and never owned.

But I think most of you intelligent people must know that there are many
ways of having you EVs 'crushed' by government not neccessarly by taking it
to a crusher machine...

..my comment:)


Marco Gaxiola
EnergyEV.com



On Sat, Nov 12, 2016 at 10:16 AM, Peri Hartman via EV 
wrote:

> Perhaps I missed it while skimming the article, but I didn't see any
> mention of crushing vehicles who's title has been transferred to the
> "owner". When I got my Leaf, I read the agreement and I am certain it did
> not give Nissan any allowance to repo the vehicle, other than for non
> payment.
>
> Peri
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Rush Dougherty via EV" 
> To: "EVDL" 
> Cc:
> Sent: 12-Nov-16 9:09:17 AM
> Subject: [EVDL] Inside EV's headline - Get Ready For A War -
>
> http://insideevs.com/automakers-ask-trump-to-ease-emissions-
>> rules-ev-mandates-ge
>> t-ready-for-a-war/
>>
>> It looks like Inside EV's thinks that the EV road is going to be full of
>> potholes in the future...
>>
>> For those of you that actually want EV's, you might read the article. For
>> those
>> of you hypocritical EV 'proponents' that speak with 'forked tongues', just
>> continue thinking that everything is alright until the OEM Auto
>> manufactures
>> (except Tesla of course) come and take your EV and crush it...
>>
>> This has happened in the past if you didn't know or have forgotten, EV's
>> were
>> reprocessed and crushed...
>>
>> Rush Dougherty
>> Tucson AZ 85719
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>>
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Re: [EVDL] Pop-starting a stick shift?

[Ing. Marco Gaxiola via EV]

 In my opinion, you may be half right. My logic says You can not start a new 
vehicle with a pop-start with a 'completely ' dead 12v battery. 

 But thinking a little more i also have my doubts; since the alternator once is 
spinning due to pop-start, is ready/can to produce electricity, which in both 
cases would energize the entire electronics on board, by consequence produce 
sparks and start the ICE machine. But me doubt comes with a completely dead 
battery (0volts) not sure if the alternator control cable (exite cable) could 
induce any curret so it start producing energy. 

   If that is not true, it would only take more time to start a newer vehicle. 
Also, usually batteries never get to 0v and it would depend on how fine and 
robust the car's electronics is, by letting all this process to happen with 
very little voltage (power)

Just like you said: the only power needed to produce a spark. On newer 
vehicles would be: ...to produce the spark and efficiently power all the needed 
electronics to make the engine work properly.  And that some times may be a 
considerable amount of power. 


Marco

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 18, 2016, at 7:27 AM, Robert Bruninga via EV  wrote:
> 
> This is the only car group I know.  So pardon the off-topic post.
> 
> 
> 
> A young kid with a minicooper flagged me down to jump start his car.  I
> told him, I’d be happy to if he could figure out how to use my 400V pack….
> 
> 
> 
> Then I asked, well, have you tried just rolling it and popping the clutch
> to get it started.  He looked at me with blank stare.  I smugly said, sure,
> it’s a stick shift, so we just get it rolling and pop the clutch and it
> will start.
> 
> 
> 
> It wouldn’t.  Then I began to realize, that all the cars I have done this
> with in the past DID NOT HAVE ANY CPU’s in them.  IE, all you have to do is
> get a spark, not power up and entire network of computers before the motor
> will even begin to consider the “starting process”.
> 
> 
> 
> So is this true?  That we can no longer pop-start a modern car with a dead
> battery?
> 
> 
> 
> My son (too cheap to buy a new battery) still does it frequently with his
> pre-cpu Geo-Tracker, in fact we just did it last week.
> 
> 
> 
> I’m just too old for all these newfangled hurdles…
> 
> 
> 
> Bob
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Re: [EVDL] eMotorWerks' inline-adapter JuicePlug makes dumb j1772 EVSE smart

[Marco Gaxiola via EV]

Actually TESLA UMC does not have any UL stamp on it, correct?

Marco

On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 6:38 PM, Cor van de Water via EV 
wrote:

> As far as I know, the only thing not "allowed" with the non-UL unit is
> that PG&E does not accept your entrance in the rebate program for the smart
> charging. If I am not mistaken, EMW has recently succeeded in getting UL
> listing for the device, so even that argument would no longer hold, but it
> is good to ask before getting a surprise.
> Cor.
>
> > On Mar 16, 2016, at 5:50 PM, Cruisin via EV  wrote:
> >
> > Don't use it, it is NOT UL approved. Not allowed in Alameda or San Jose
> > County as well as others.
> >
> > --
> > View this message in context:
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/eMotorWerks-inline-adapter-JuicePlug-makes-dumb-j1772-EVSE-smart-tp4681030p4681031.html
> > Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
> > ___
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> > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
> >
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Re: [EVDL] Juicebox contactor problem

[Ing. Marco Gaxiola via EV]

Well, according to the SAE-J1772 standard, the contactor shall not be
energized during a startup test nor any other condition than when plugging
it to a car. Maybe that is one of the reasons is not been approved.


Marco Gaxiola
CEO/Director
Tel: +52(662)301.1070
Skype: info.energyev
www.energyev.com 



-Mensaje original-
De: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] En nombre de Cruisin via EV
Enviado el: domingo, 31 de enero de 2016 01:44 p.m.
Para: ev@lists.evdl.org
Asunto: Re: [EVDL] Juicebox contactor problem

You can get support from the people who sold you the non approved charging
stations.

--
View this message in context:
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Juicebox-contac
tor-problem-tp4680179p4680186.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.
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Re: [EVDL] Looking for an AH meter, pack powered, circular 2" mounting hole

[Ing. Marco Gaxiola via EV]

Hello Jay,

I strongly recommend you this one: the VICTRON ENERGY BMV-700H  (H
means for high voltage) 

https://www.victronenergy.com/battery-monitors/bmv-700

I had the same need months ago, and after some folks recommendations
here and some more extensively search the web I found this one. It is a true
Ah-Wh-V-Amps and lot more information meter system (second battery monitor,
hrs left, alarms output, peukert, cycle, temp sensor, proprietary network
connectivity, buzzer, etc) either for Lead-Acid or Lithium batteries or
other chemistries. From 6.5 to 96V and for 60 to 385V  (BMV-700H the one you
need)

I think none of the ones in the market, this size and price beats
this one. 

Ing. Marco Gaxiola
Director General 
Tel: (662)301.1070
Skype: info.energyev
www.energyev.com 


-Mensaje original-
De: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] En nombre de Jay Summet via EV
Enviado el: martes, 19 de enero de 2016 10:43 a.m.
Para: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Asunto: [EVDL] Looking for an AH meter, pack powered, circular 2" mounting
hole

I'm looking for an AH meter for my truck. I want to put it into the hole
that will be left by a Curtis 900R (lead acid) battery monitor in my dash,
so the form factor should be a round automotive 2" diameter panel type.

I'm willing to pay extra to have it powered by the pack (118-135 volts) and
not require an isolated 12 volt supply. I'm willing to pay extra to have it
use a hall effect sensor (as opposed to a shunt), as I don't need it to be
terribly accurate and for my mounting position a hall effect will be
easier/cleaner.

Ideally I'd like to wire it up to pack +/- and the magnetic current sensor
and be done.

Suggestions?

Jay
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Re: [EVDL] Driving on Leaf modules! (S-10 EV Conversion)

[Ing. Marco Gaxiola via EV]

Jay,

Wow, only 10volts sag on a +41kw (+350amps times 118volts) of power, that is 
pretty amazing!!

Forgive my ignorance: so each module is at 8volts? (16 in series, total 128V 
pack) (each Leaf module is 60ah correct?)

Which BMS and charger are you using?

Do you have a website or similar  where to see some pictures of your work? 
Congratulations..

Saludos..!

Marco Gaxiola 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 28, 2015, at 8:33 PM, Jay Summet via EV  wrote:
> 
> I have successfully driven my S-10 Electric Pickup conversion powered by 48 
> modules from a salvaged Nissan Leaf battery pack. I have them wired in 
> series, 16 sets of 3 parallel modules, providing 128 volts with 180Ah 
> capacity (23 kWh).
> 
> It took me a full three days of work to make the swap and get the truck to a 
> barely drivable condition. I have the cells hooked up with a warning buzzer 
> on the BMS low voltage loop signal, but I do not yet have the charger fully 
> connected. I anticipate another 8 hours of work to get the charger and 
> pakTrakr system fully set up.
> 
> From a performance standpoint, the LiIon modules are much "stiffer" than the 
> twenty 6V golf cart batteries they replaced, meaning that they do not suffer 
> from as much of a voltage sag under high current draw. The lowest I was able 
> to get the voltage to sag on the LiIon modules was down to 118 volts while 
> accelerating up a very long steep hill at a 350+ Amp draw.
> 
> The ability to accelerate from 35 to 50 MPH up a long steep hill is much 
> better subjective performance than I was able to get out of the truck when 
> using golf cart batteries. It helps that the 500 lbs of Nissan leaf modules 
> are replacing 1200 lbs of golf cart batteries, so the truck is 700 lbs 
> lighter now. This also improves the stopping distance. The handling is 
> slightly lighter, but nothing is going to make an S-10 into a sports car.
> 
> Because I got a good deal on a wrecked leaf, and reduced my costs by parting 
> out the rest of the car, the actual LiIon modules only cost me $1200 (less 
> than a set of new golf cart batteries)! However, the overall upgrade cost me 
> $4100 once I included the cost of a new charger and BMS system to support the 
> LiIon batteries, plus all of the miscellaneous materials and tools I needed 
> to build the batteries and cables. Not to mention the hundreds of hours of 
> work.
> 
> If they last any more than the 2 years I've been averaging from the Lead Acid 
> packs it will be well worth it.
> 
> Jay
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Re: [EVDL] Rickard's EVTV let the smoke out> overcharged pack fire blew up

[Ing. Marco Gaxiola via EV]

This a today's trabscription from Jack Rickard on FB 8hrs ago...


A Dark and Sunny Sunday:  
 
I was really quite energized this week and had planned quite a show for the 
weekend. But we were kind of overwhelmed with orders and order problems towards 
the end of the week, and so increasingly I'm finding that the only time I can 
put focused effort into a project is at home in the mornings or on the weekends 
at the shop when my "help" isn't there to "help". That's tradiionally when I 
have edited and uploaded videos. 
 
But I've been obsessing recently on the Tesla Drive Unit. Collin Kidder and I 
have been going back and forth in kind of intense fashion between a controller 
box and the EVIC display to control the Tesla Model S drive train. And 
actually, we are getting very close. 
 
So close that I went to the shop Saturday afternoon with some new code we'd 
been working on intending to shoot a video segment showing this remarkable 
display we have now that controls the drive unit. 
 
As always, it didn't work "exactly" the way I pictured it from the comfort of 
the bedroom. But to give you some idea, we're kind of doing to doing a 500 slot 
ring buffer to do a continuous averaging of watt-hours per mile smoothly so we 
can predict the range remaining in the pack in miles per hour and kilometers 
per hour. This adds a new sample about every 10 seconds and averages it over 
the last 500 samples. It won't be any better than the almost comical one in the 
ICE Escalade, but it's traditional to have this displayed. 
 
So I kept at it. Deadline 6:00 PM Saturday as I had promised the wife I would 
join her for a bridge games with the Matthews. 
 
I am pleased to report that the look and feel of the screen are pretty much 
what I want and pretty much at least resembles the instrumentation in my Model 
S. It's all functional and has pretty good response. 
 
 
 
 
 
So I get a glass of tea and light up a Camel. It's 5:43 on Saturday evening and 
I haven't shot a second of video as yet. But I do have it calculating a 
plausible remaining range, and doing the state of charge thing and the amphours 
used and kilowatts used and it is all hanging together. I can put it in any 
gear from EITHER the PowerkeyPro 2400 panel or the touchscreen. Creep on/off 
demonstrably works. Regen increase and decrease. My trip meter works. The 
odometer resets. The SOC resets at a touch. And I finally have the colors right 
on the very strange logarithmic scale Tesla uses to show power output or input 
on the right side of the dial. Life is good. But I'm going to have to shut down 
and go to a bridge game. 
 
POP. BANG. 
 
What was that? Sounded like somebody banging on one of the closed garage doors. 
BANG POP POP. What the hell? 
 
I went into the next room to see who was banging on the door, but as I reached 
to open the door, the POP POP BANG sounded again but BEHIND me. I walked over 
to the Better Place battery pack from the Renault Influenza that we use on the 
OEM components test bench. BANG POP POP. These are actually pretty loud. What 
the..? 
 
This pack was right out of the cargo container and we never even attempted a 
bottom balance. We were only going to use it for testing chargers and DC-DC 
converters and the UQM test bench. But as the result of one of our assclowns 
playing around with the bench while I wasn't in the shop, it had drained down 
very slowly overnight to a very low level. 
 
It seemed to charge back up ok. But never quite got to full charge. So I had 
hooked it up earlier in the afternoon to bring it up some more. 
 
I quickly shut off the charger and cut off the contactors. But it continued to 
BANG and POP irregularly. I can't leave to go to bridge with it like this I'm 
thinking. As there had been several of these "no show" moments in the past few 
weeks where I threw my wife under the bus with regards to one plan or another, 
this was not really good. I can't believe I'm doing this again. 
 
Suddenly the pack begins to issue the familiar white smoke - just a bit at 
first, then more. The pack weighs 450 lbs, and the fork lift is at the other 
end of the building. I went over to the wall water spigot, glad I had a couple 
hundred feet of hose there to water our grass. No hose. Assclown somewhere had 
made command level decision to move it down to the basement in the other 
building apparently. There was a hose, but it was four feet long. 
 
By this time the white smoke was coming out pretty good. I don't know why, but 
I was curious what the temps were. So I grabbed an infrared gun and shot all 
the cells. Most were warmish in the 35-40C range but there were two sitting at 
95C. Not good. 
 
Suddenly the pack spewed a spear of sparks and flame about six feet straight 
out the front - right where I had been a moment before. And then it exploded 
into a massive fireball shooting flames up to the ceiling with such velocity 
that they splashed laterally from there. 
 
It would have made exce

[EVDL] Cool 'Back to the Future' Totoya FCV commercial...

[Ing. Marco Gaxiola via EV]

Although I'm not fan of the 'Fool Cell'; this commercial is really good, and
the way they fool the people about using trash to produce biomass to product
(don't know what) to produce hydrogen to put it into their cars...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFyY7_hc-14

 

Good for their marketing area...

 

 

 

Ing. Marco Gaxiola

Director General 

Juarez #18, Col. Bachoco

Tel: (662)301.1070

Skype: info.energyev

  www.energyev.com 

 

 



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Re: [EVDL] 48V Energy Meter (Lead-Acid)...

[Ing. Marco Gaxiola via EV]

Yesterday whlie searchig also for a 48v solar controller for the same projet, i 
found this Meter that supercceds for much the xantrex products and think will 
the ideal solution Im looking for. 

http://www.victronenergy.com/battery-monitors/BMV-700

It works from 6.5 to 95vdc one version and up to 385v the 700S version and less 
than 4ma.  Eliminating any need for external power supplies etc. There is also 
a version that can monitor a second battery and the best thing is that has 
minimal connections;  just one UTP wire from the meter to the shunt and a short 
wire to positive from shunt. 

The product is supported by an extensive documentation plattform (white papers) 
and also a software and connectivity network that provides others solutions to 
mobile, offgrid or many energy storage solutions

Marco Gaxiola

Enviado desde mi iPhone

> El 26/07/2015, a las 6:14 a.m., Robert Bruninga via EV  
> escribió:
> 
> You are right.  I was not paying attention.  If the zener is only droping
> from pack voltage down to the 35v maximum input voltage fo the device and
> it only draws 150 mA, then you'd probably use two 12v zeners to drop from
> the fully charged pack voltage of 56 down to around 32v and so th zeners
> would need to be rated at 0.15A * 24v or 3.6W and since there are two of
> them, then a pair of 2W zeners would do it.   Bob
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of EVDL
> Administrator via EV
> Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 11:59 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] 48V Energy Meter (Lead-Acid)...
> 
>> On 25 Jul 2015 at 17:38, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote:
>> 
>> But remember it is still dropping all that voltage as HEAT.  So say
>> your meter device needs 500 mA at 12v, and your pack is 48v.  Then the
>> zener is droping 36v at 500 mA and will be disipating over 18W of heat.
> 
> I'm no expert, but I just can't see it being this bad.  The manual I have
> as previously referenced
> 
> http://www.evdl.org/docs/ce-emeter.pdf
> 
> -- admittedly an old one, but I would hope they don't use MORE current now
> --  says 50ma to 150ma depending on backlight intensity, and sleep at
> 28ma.
> 
> You also don't need to drop 36v.  The meter will be happy at anything
> between 12 and 30 volts.  So with a 48v pack you're dropping perhaps
> 20-24v at 150ma, or 3.6 Watts maximum.  That still requires a fairly beefy
> zener, but not 18 Watts' worth.  Sure, it's waste, but it's negligible in
> a golf car that's typically using between 1 and 3.5 kW just moseying
> along.
> 
> Cor's suggestion of an extra zener clamp across the meter is an EXCELLENT
> idea.
> 
> But perhaps it's all moot since off the shelf low-power DC:DC isolators
> have gotten quite cheap, thanks to Chinese sweatshop manufacturing.
> 
> Disclaimer: I have not tried any of this with an E-meter, though a long
> time ago I did something similar (IIRC using a power transistor and a
> zener) with an even older Cruising Equipment amp-hour counter.
> 
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
> 
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Re: [EVDL] 48V Energy Meter (Lead-Acid)...

[Ing. Marco Gaxiola via EV]

Opps.. yes, here is the link:

http://www.newark.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Search?catalogId=15003&langI
d=-1&storeId=10194&categoryId=80005767&pageSize=25&showResults=true&aa=t
rue&pf=811258226,811258357,811258459,811258482,811258565,811258569,811258571
,811258603,811258616,811258623,811258725,811258765,811258780,811258874,81125
8885,811258925,811258941,811258947,811258982,811258987,811259023,811259065,8
11298108,811298109,811298494,811353625,811437188,811437191,811985601,8120376
50&min=811258765,811258947&max=811258780,811258357

Not too expensive, easy to connect, regulated and 500mA



-Mensaje original-
De: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] En nombre de Cor van de Water via
EV
Enviado el: sábado, 25 de julio de 2015 11:36 a.m.
Para: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Asunto: Re: [EVDL] 48V Energy Meter (Lead-Acid)...

Marco, the link was missing in the post I received.

Damon,
As others have said - this is a non-isolated solution to power the meter.
However, if you power the meter from the traction pack, the meter does *NOT*
connect the traction pack to ground, so a non-isolated solution is not a
problem as long as you take care wiring the meter correctly: don't wire it
to ground = chassis but only to the traction pack + and - so the meter will
float with the pack.
This is different than using a 12V input to power the meter, since the 12V
negative is always connected to ground (chassis) so in that way, you connect
the traction pack through the meter.
At 48V it is possible that the traction pack negative is anyhow connected to
chassis, but this is not guaranteed and it is better to connect the meter to
the pack anyway.

Note that the zener drops a fixed voltage in *reverse* direction (in forward
direction it is just another diode) so you need to calculate the highest and
lowest voltage that your pack is reaching and see if that stays in spec for
the meter. For example a lead-acid pack may go from 36V on acceleration
while empty (1.5V per cell) to 60V on equalization charge (2.5V per cell)
This means that a 25V to 27V drop will give you power for the meter, but any
larger swings and the meter will not work and a DC/DC is
better: with a 27V zener, the meter supply voltage goes from 9V to 33V on
that swing.

Yes, a series fuse or resistor is highly recommended. In fact, to protect
your meter it is a good idea to have a 33V zener across the meter as well,
so that if the power supply goes too high, it starts drawing more current
and drop it across the series resistor in the supply line. Normally the
voltage on the meter will be below that zener's voltage and no extra current
will flow, that is why I recommend a zener as dropping element, not a
resistor.
A slightly fancier setup is to use a transistor that can withstand a higher
voltage than the pack can reach and which drops the voltage to a level that
the meter can work with so you extend the meter's linear regulator's voltage
input range externally.

My reason to use a dropping zener or linear regulator (while I am fanatic
about efficiency) is that the meter draws a very small current, so even a
DC/DC converter will have low efficiency and I doubt that it will draw less
current than when simply dropping voltage with a zener, but that will depend
on the quality of your DC/DC. The other reason is that a zener is cheaper
than a DC/DC converter.

Hope this clarifies,

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: cwa...@proxim.comPrivate: http://www.cvandewater.info
Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203



-----Original Message-
From: EV on behalf of Ing. Marco Gaxiola via EV
Sent: Sat 7/25/2015 9:43 AM
To: 'Robert Bruninga'; 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'; 'damon henry'
Subject: Re: [EVDL] 48V Energy Meter (Lead-Acid)...
 

Thanks to all for your recommendations.

Rush, yes.. I have 2 of them thanks to you :), but the owner of the
vehicle I'm going to use the meter wants something that tells him in
'percentage' an E-meter only has 4 LED lamps. 

Cor, yes you are right; Xantrex is the new name of the E-Meter
product, and yes the new one works only up to 35V, but tech manual does not
says at any place where to move the decimal point or another different
voltage value reading. Maybe they just took out that feature on this new
models.

Damon, an isolated power supply Cannot be done by just using a Zener
diode, that would be non-isolated and could work fine for your motorcycle as
long as you share grounds for 48V and 12V for your e-meter. But just as
Robert says; you would waste more energy on the (48-12V = 36) 36Volts side
in heat all time, than the power the meter consumes itself.  You'd better
use a mini 'switched power supply'. Some products like this ones would work
perfectl

Re: [EVDL] 48V Energy Meter (Lead-Acid)...

[Ing. Marco Gaxiola via EV]

Thanks to all for your recommendations.

Rush, yes.. I have 2 of them thanks to you :), but the owner of the 
vehicle I'm going to use the meter wants something that tells him in 
'percentage' an E-meter only has 4 LED lamps. 

Cor, yes you are right; Xantrex is the new name of the E-Meter product, 
and yes the new one works only up to 35V, but tech manual does not says at any 
place where to move the decimal point or another different voltage value 
reading. Maybe they just took out that feature on this new models.

Damon, an isolated power supply Cannot be done by just using a Zener 
diode, that would be non-isolated and could work fine for your motorcycle as 
long as you share grounds for 48V and 12V for your e-meter. But just as Robert 
says; you would waste more energy on the (48-12V = 36) 36Volts side in heat all 
time, than the power the meter consumes itself.  You'd better use a mini 
'switched power supply'. Some products like this ones would work perfectly 
(especially the first result):

Saludos...


Ing. Marco Gaxiola
CEO/Director
Juarez #18, Col. Bachoco
Tel: +52(662)301.1070
Skype: info.energyev
www.energyev.com 



-Mensaje original-
De: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] En nombre de Robert Bruninga via EV
Enviado el: sábado, 25 de julio de 2015 07:50 a.m.
Para: damon henry; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Asunto: Re: [EVDL] 48V Energy Meter (Lead-Acid)...

You must have a series current limiting resistor.  The disadvantage of any 
zener power supply/regulator is that you are wasting all the drop-down voltage 
as heat.  So for a 12v zener from 48v, only 1/4th of the power drawn actually 
goes into the device.  The rest is wasted.

bob

On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 9:20 AM, damon henry via EV 
wrote:

> Hi Cor,
> I have been around and using E-meters for many years now and this is 
> the first time I have ever heard of using a zener diode as a method to 
> create an isolated power supply for one.  Is it really that simple?  
> If so I might switch to this on my motorcycle (48v).  I currently have 
> a small 12 volt battery that I use just for running my meter, which is 
> a pretty simple setup, but does require me to charge the battery once 
> a week, and/or disconnect the battery if I leave the motorcycle unused for a 
> long stretch.
> If I understand this method I would simply connect the emeter power 
> through a zener diode off my traction pack and that would provide both 
> the required isolation and enough of a voltage drop to keep from 
> burning the meter out.  That sounds easy :) Do you just wire the zener 
> into one of the power leads from the traction pack to the emeter?  
> Does it matter whether it is on the positive or negative lead?  Are 
> there other components that could/should be added like a fuse or current 
> limiting resistor?
> thanksDamon
>
> > Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 23:15:24 -0700
> > To: ev@lists.evdl.org
> > Subject: Re: [EVDL] 48V Energy Meter (Lead-Acid)...
> > From: ev@lists.evdl.org
> >
> > The older (pre-decessor or just re-packaged?) Link 10 meter from 
> > Xantrex was also limited to 35V (it is the 7800-series linear 
> > voltage regulator
> max input)
> > so a 1:10 pre-scaler could be used to measure higher voltage, while
> powering the
> > unit from an isolated power supply between 12-35V although if it is 
> > just
> 48V as in your case,
> > the prescaler is needed but the power supply can simply be a zener
> diode, dropping the
> > 48V (max charge voltage for example 60V so you would need a 25V or 
> > next
> higher zener)
> >
> > If I am not mistaken, the Link 10 had a software feature to shift 
> > the
> decimal dot a place
> > so you could take the 10:1 pre-scaler into account in Voltage and 
> > energy
> measurements.
> > Not sure if this unit has that same feature - Lee might know as he 
> > has
> made a
> > companion board for the Link 10.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Cor van de Water
> > Chief Scientist
> > Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> > Email: cwa...@proxim.comPrivate: http://www.cvandewater.info
> > Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
> > Tel: +1 408 383 7626Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: EV on behalf of Ing. Marco Gaxiola via EV
> > Sent: Fri 7/24/2015 11:08 AM
> > To: 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'
> > Subject: [EVDL] 48V Energy Meter (Lead-Acid)...
> >
> >
> >   I'm looking for an energy meter for a lead-acid 48V (Nominal)
> bank.  A friend recommended me this one from Xantrex:
> >
> >
> http://www.xantrex.co

[EVDL] 48V Energy Meter (Lead-Acid)...

[Ing. Marco Gaxiola via EV]

I'm looking for an energy meter for a lead-acid 48V (Nominal) bank.  A 
friend recommended me this one from Xantrex:

http://www.xantrex.com/power-products/power-accessories/linkpro-battery-monitor.aspx

that looks great and ideal for my Project. But unfortunately maximum reading 
voltage is up to 35Vdc. (although using a pre-scaler in the input voltage and a 
48V to 12V DC-DC power supply; the firmware parameters in the programming 
options of the device, according to the datasheet; are only up to 35Volts range)

if someone does know of a similar product solution that could be 
recommended, please advice.  

  
(Application: It's intended to be used on an Electric Polaris Vehicle. 
I'm upgrading the battery pack, extra charger and adding some solar panels in 
order to improve range, charge time and ability to slowly self-recharge while 
in the sun. To be used on a Ranch.) 


Ing. Marco Gaxiola
CEO/Director
Juarez #18, Col. Bachoco
Tel: +52(662)301.1070
Skype: info.energyev
www.energyev.com 




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[EVDL] Electric Motors... For Aircrafts!

[Ing. Marco Gaxiola via EV]

From:
http://www.gizmag.com/siemens-world-record-electric-motor-aircraft/37048/?ut
m_source=Gizmag+Subscribers&utm_campaign=cd2cfbace3-UA-2235360-4&utm_medium=
email&utm_term=0_65b67362bd-cd2cfbace3-91825189


Researchers at Siemens have created a new prototype electric motor
specifically designed for aircraft that weighs in at just 50 kg (110 lb) and
is claimed to produce about 260 kW (348 hp) at just 2,500 RPM. With a quoted
power five times greater than any comparable powerplant, the new motor
promises enough grunt to get aircraft with take-off weights of up to 1,800
kg (2 ton) off the ground.

Researchers say they produced such a light but powerful motor by analyzing
all of the components of previous electric aircraft motors and incorporating
optimized improvements to these in their new prototype. Added to this, the
researchers also utilized a range of computer simulation methods to model
the motor prior to construction, before then applying the findings to
produce the lightest and strongest set of components possible.

As a result, the new aircraft electric drive system achieves a claimed
weight-to-performance ratio of 5 kW per kilogram. This ratio is an
exceptional figure - especially if compared to similarly powerful industrial
electric motors used in heavy machinery that produce less than 1 kW per
kilogram, or even to more efficient electric motors for vehicles that
generate around 2 kW per kilogram. The four electric motors in the Solar
Impulse 2, by comparison, produce just 7.5 kW (10 hp) each.

The new Siemens electric motor is also direct drive and does not require a
transmission, spinning a propeller up to speeds of around 2,500 RPM.
  
"This innovation will make it possible to build series hybrid-electric
aircraft with four or more seats," said Frank Anton, Head of eAircraft at
Siemens Corporate Technology, the company's central research unit. "We're
convinced that the use of hybrid-electric drives in regional airliners with
50 to 100 passengers is a real medium-term possibility."

Siemens has been involved in a range of electric motor driven vehicles,
including a collaboration with Volvo on a fast-charging motor vehicle and
with shipping company Norland for an electrically-driven passenger ferry.

This electric motor innovation, however, may be just the ticket for the
company's joint venture with the Diamond aircraft company, who they supply
with electric fan motors for their DA36 E-Star 2 motor glider. The last one
generated just 60 kW.

The motor, which was developed with the support of the German Aviation
Research Program LuFo as a project of Grob Aircraft and Siemens, is planned
to start in-flight-testing before the end of 2015. Siemens also hopes to see
further evolutionary increases to the power output in the not-too-distant
future.

Source: Siemens



Ing. Marco Gaxiola
CEO/Director
Juarez #18, Col. Bachoco
Tel: +52(662)301.1070
Skype: info.energyev
www.energyev.com 




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[EVDL] Chevrolet SPARK to be also sold in MEXICO

[Ing. Marco Gaxiola via EV]

 General Motors Mexico announced the introduction of the SPARK EV to Mexico
market. A version with a 21.4 Kwh battery, with a 130HP motor and an
estimated range of 132Km. The Spark EV will be sold in a starting price of
$499,900 Pesos. 

http://noticias.autocosmos.com.mx/2015/04/15/chevrolet-spark-electrico-2015-
llega-a-mexico-en-499900-pesos 

Almost half million Mexican pesos equivalent to an aprox. US $35,700
different than the $25K or even lower $15k announced in different US
websites.

http://cleantechnica.com/2015/04/16/chevy-spark-ev-price-falls-just-25995-lo
w-14995/ 




Ing. Marco Gaxiola
Director General 
Juarez #18, Col. Bachoco
Tel: (662)301.1070
Skype: info.energyev
www.energyev.com 


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Re: [EVDL] charging two parallel packs in series

[Ing. Marco Gaxiola via EV]

- Cor, You cannot get rid of coil 3 because you would short circuit
Pack A when charging, same for coil 4 would short circuit pack B when
charging.

- Ohh yes, this is just an illustrative schem. Sure; giving some
extra Seconds delay to the 'ignition relay cut off' circuitry by putting a
4700uf cap or similar solution when you just finish charging and immediately
turn the EV in order to you be sure the coil 1 is totally open. 

- Complete agree; fuses are elementary part of a high power high
voltage system, I just forgot them in this schem.


In my opinion I think this wiring could be more complex than most
common EV wirings, but if you consider the time saved due to the charger
capability of speed up the charge process over time. It would cost you once
(the wiring and extra components) but it will save you a considerably
charging time every day of the EV lifetime. I think that is one of the
biggest EV concerns, right?



Ing. Marco Gaxiola
CEO/Director
Juarez #18, Col. Bachoco
Tel: +52(662)301.1070
Cel: +521(662)169.0140
Skype: info.energyev
www.energyev.com 



-Mensaje original-
De: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] En nombre de Cor van de Water via
EV
Enviado el: jueves, 26 de marzo de 2015 03:18 p.m.
Para: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Asunto: Re: [EVDL] charging two parallel packs in series

Actually - whether they will charge at a high rate of charging when
connected in parallel again, depends on their internal resistance and the
voltage difference.
Many people have attempted to balance-charge by connecting all
cells/batteries in parallel without getting a perfect balance, due to the
small difference in voltage and resulting low current.
For example, I have a pack consisting out of golf cart batteries for 120V
(20 x 6V) When I draw 300A then the pack sags up to 30V down, so internal
resistance is just under 0.1 Ohm.
If I charge them in series and I would connect them in parallel when there
is 1V difference between the two halves, there will be a equalization
current of about 10A.
Of course, with some chemistries the current can be (much) higher, but it is
hard to get an overwhelming fault current.

Regarding the picture:
- you could get rid of either coil2 or coil3 without problem for the EV
system.
- you need to make sure that both the remaining coil3 or coil2 and coil4 are
open before closing coil1 or you are short-circuiting a half pack.
- it would be best to have a fuse in line with each pack, just in case there
is a switching error

Is this added complexity really the best answer to the savings on the
charger current?

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless

office +1 408 383 7626  Skype: cor_van_de_water
XoIP   +31 87 784 1130  private: cvandewater.info
www.proxim.com


This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and
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-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Michael Kadie via
EV
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 10:46 AM
To: Steve Clunn; ev@lists.evdl.org
Subject: Re: [EVDL] charging two parallel packs in series

So I drew a really crude wiring diagram.  http://goo.gl/kAj5wH

Note that it is important the two packs are balanced within a few volts of
each other after the series charging.  Otherwise when you reconnect them in
parallel they will arc across the connector and cross charge at a VERY HIGH
AMPERAGE.

T-Rex / KD
SSI-Racing

-Original Message-
From: Steve Clunn via EV
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 7:15 AM
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Subject: [EVDL] charging two parallel packs in series

>Subject: [EVDL] Open Circuit Voltage Across Contactors

I've got two Anderson contacts on my pack, one on the negative side and one
on the positive side.  So when the key is out of the ignition, the
controller and all other components are separated from the traction pack.  I
currently have a 120V system, with two strings in parallel, because I have a
Curtis controller, which has a 144V max.  I would, however, like to be able
to charge faster with my PFC-30.  So my question is, if I reconfigure the
packs to be in series for charging, is there any problem, since both
contactors will be open?

Bill>

This could be done safely by leaving one pack ( pack A ) hooked up normally
then using two Anderson connectors with your charger  being the only thing
connected to pack B's battery plus ,chargers neg will go to pack A's neg.
Pack B will hook to pack A using a 175amp or bigger Anderson disconnect with
pack A's pluses going to pack B's plus and A's neg to B's neg , this will be
for driving and parallel charging . Pull the disconnect and plug in a
Anderson jumper plug which will connect the A packs positive to the B packs
negative and no

Re: [EVDL] charging two parallel packs in series

[Ing. Marco Gaxiola via EV]

Steve, Bill;

I made this schematic, also complementing the one Michael sent, but
using an automatically 'connect/disconnect' for both packs at charging and
use modes.

https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/109469848356360136281/albums/613061501260
0294641/6130615018680184210?pid=6130615018680184210&oid=10946984835636013628
1

Considering what Michael says about having balanced both packs. This
configuration will only works if both packs are discharged and charged at
the same time. This way, acring may no be as big to have special
considerations since both packs are going to be similar power, most of the
time.

From my schematic: Coil 1 may be a small 50amp 12/24Vdc contactor
just to put both battery packs in series for charging and support charger
max Amp rate, and it will only works when connected to AC as same time as
the charger. The power supply is only for powering the coil 1 and probably a
relay just to inhibit the ingition switch to go ON.

Coils 2, 3 and 4 may be a LEV200 or similar, high power contactors
that will provide power to th EV as usual main contactors do. But this
configuration will also give you the chance to power only 'coil 1' and use
pack A or power 'coil 2 &3' and use pack B. But as mentioned before by
Michael this will unbalance packs and Arcs may be present at a future point.
Also, when charging, one pack will reach fully charge before the other,
taking too much time to balance it after that. So I would recommend not
using it separately. (may be just for emergency situations or servicing one
pack)
 


Ing. Marco Gaxiola
CEO/Director
Juarez #18, Col. Bachoco
Tel: +52(662)301.1070
Cel: +521(662)169.0140
Skype: info.energyev
www.energyev.com 


-Mensaje original-
De: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] En nombre de Michael Kadie via EV
Enviado el: jueves, 26 de marzo de 2015 10:46 a.m.
Para: Steve Clunn; ev@lists.evdl.org
Asunto: Re: [EVDL] charging two parallel packs in series

So I drew a really crude wiring diagram.  http://goo.gl/kAj5wH

Note that it is important the two packs are balanced within a few volts of
each other after the series charging.  Otherwise when you reconnect them in
parallel they will arc across the connector and cross charge at a VERY HIGH
AMPERAGE.

T-Rex / KD
SSI-Racing

-Original Message-
From: Steve Clunn via EV
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 7:15 AM
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Subject: [EVDL] charging two parallel packs in series

>Subject: [EVDL] Open Circuit Voltage Across Contactors

I've got two Anderson contacts on my pack, one on the negative side and one
on the positive side.  So when the key is out of the ignition, the
controller and all other components are separated from the traction pack.  I
currently have a 120V system, with two strings in parallel, because I have a
Curtis controller, which has a 144V max.  I would, however, like to be able
to charge faster with my PFC-30.  So my question is, if I reconfigure the
packs to be in series for charging, is there any problem, since both
contactors will be open?

Bill>

This could be done safely by leaving one pack ( pack A ) hooked up normally
then using two Anderson connectors with your charger  being the only thing
connected to pack B's battery plus ,chargers neg will go to pack A's neg.
Pack B will hook to pack A using a 175amp or bigger Anderson disconnect with
pack A's pluses going to pack B's plus and A's neg to B's neg , this will be
for driving and parallel charging . Pull the disconnect and plug in a
Anderson jumper plug which will connect the A packs positive to the B packs
negative and now your are charging in series. If you forget to switch back ,
no big deal you will just be running on pack A . A few ways to set up these
Anderson's , I think the 175 amp Anderson would be big enough . I would have
one on pack A and 2 and pack B ( one for series and one for parallel ) The
series plug will have its b+ plug going to the B packs neg .

shameless plug ,, we sell them but there not on the web site


Steve Clunn
Merging the best of the past with
the best of the future.
www.Greenshedconversions.com
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Re: [EVDL] charging two parallel packs in series

[Ing. Marco Gaxiola via EV]

Steve,

Per what my logic tells me; there won't be any problem doing like,
and it comes to my mind that you should do it 'automatically'...  this means
that instead of using Anderson connections, use medium amperage rate
contactors, being driven by the same power the charger receives, so when you
connect the PFC-30; contactors would also 'close or open' your desired
circuitry and done... you will be on 'series charging' your pack.

Also you can include another relay/contactor at the same charger
power source to 'disconnect' the ignition main switch, in order to prevent
use of the vehicle during charging.

Why I say medium amp size contactors? Because the charger rate
usually goes through 10-30amps which is different than the amp rate when
driving (from 100 to 600 or more) and circuitry/components can be less
expensive.

Steve, but the idea of charging in 'series' instead or parallel, is
the PFC-30 will provide more watts at higher voltage: 288Volts than charging
at 144V?  

Saludos...!!



Ing. Marco Gaxiola
CEO/Director
Juarez #18, Col. Bachoco
Tel: +52(662)301.1070
Skype: info.energyev
www.energyev.com 


-Mensaje original-
De: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] En nombre de Steve Clunn via EV
Enviado el: jueves, 26 de marzo de 2015 07:16 a.m.
Para: ev@lists.evdl.org
Asunto: [EVDL] charging two parallel packs in series

>Subject: [EVDL] Open Circuit Voltage Across Contactors

I've got two Anderson contacts on my pack, one on the negative side and one
on the positive side.  So when the key is out of the ignition, the
controller and all other components are separated from the traction pack.  I
currently have a 120V system, with two strings in parallel, because I have a
Curtis controller, which has a 144V max.  I would, however, like to be able
to charge faster with my PFC-30.  So my question is, if I reconfigure the
packs to be in series for charging, is there any problem, since both
contactors will be open?

Bill>

This could be done safely by leaving one pack ( pack A ) hooked up normally
then using two Anderson connectors with your charger  being the only thing
connected to pack B's battery plus ,chargers neg will go to pack A's neg.
Pack B will hook to pack A using a 175amp or bigger Anderson disconnect with
pack A's pluses going to pack B's plus and A's neg to B's neg , this will be
for driving and parallel charging . Pull the disconnect and plug in a
Anderson jumper plug which will connect the A packs positive to the B packs
negative and now your are charging in series. If you forget to switch back ,
no big deal you will just be running on pack A . A few ways to set up these
Anderson's , I think the 175 amp Anderson would be big enough . I would have
one on pack A and 2 and pack B ( one for series and one for parallel ) The
series plug will have its b+ plug going to the B packs neg .

shameless plug ,, we sell them but there not on the web site


Steve Clunn
Merging the best of the past with
the best of the future.
www.Greenshedconversions.com
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Re: [EVDL] PB-6 Extra Wire

[Ing. Marco Gaxiola via EV]

There is one video I uploaded to my customers from my store, I made
it to explain my Mexican customers how this work (Spanish), but you can see
exactly how those 3 wires works. As lee Hart says; connecting the pot ends
would give you a maximum resistance on the center and 0ohm on when turning
it on each side. Not a popular connection on EVs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-63p-MA3UE

Usually the 3 wires Pots are used for electronics where there is
needed to have a positive and negative references for making the 'wing'
process, from an 'X' specific voltage to another 'y' different than ground
or ground too. For almost any EV controller you should only require one side
and the center, depending on the controller input logic; from 0 to 5K ohm or
from 5K to 0ohm.

Other outgoing wires, if the PB-6 keeps original; only can be the
micro-switch (that is 3 leads in it) for certain controllers as confirmation
of 'end/start of track' or force to off mode in case the pot inside track
fails or there is a false contact on the pot wiring.


Ing. Marco Gaxiola
CEO/Director
Juarez #18, Col. Bachoco
Tel: +52(662)301.1070
Skype: info.energyev
www.energyev.com 

  

-Mensaje original-
De: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] En nombre de Lee Hart via EV
Enviado el: viernes, 13 de febrero de 2015 11:21 a.m.
Para: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Asunto: Re: [EVDL] PB-6 Extra Wire

Roland via EV wrote:
> Yes, that is right, the second wire went to the wiper, the third wire 
> went to the other end of the pot.  To convert to a 2.5 K Pot, you can 
> still connect the two ends together.

Something's not right here. If you connect the ends of a 5k pot together,
you end up with a 1.25k pot. As you turn it from one end to the middle, the
resistance would go from 0 to 1.25k. As you keep turning it to the other
end, the resistance goes back DOWN from 1.25k to 0.

Such pots are used in "wig-wag" throttles, where it is spring-loaded in the
center. They use these on electric pallet trucks, for example. You operate
the throttle with your thumb. Pressing it to rotate one way is forward,
pressing it the other way is reverse.

A further complication is that the Curtis pots are weird. Instead of a
resistance track that covers the full 300 degrees of rotation, they had it
printed on only about 90 degrees, with solid metal for the remaining 210
degrees. On this kind of pot, you get 0 to 5k as you rotate it from 0 to 90
degrees (normal throttle usage). But then it STAYS at 5k as you keep
rotating it the other 3/4 of a turn. If you connected a wire to the far end
of this kind of pot, it starts at 5k, decreases from 5k to 0k as you rotate
it 90 degrees, and then STAYS at 0 ohms as you rotate it the other 3/4 turn.

So I don't know what you really have. But you can figure it out with an
ohmmeter. :-)

--
We live in a society exquisitely dependent on science and technology, in
which hardly anyone knows anything about science and technology.
-- Carl Sagan
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeah...@earthlink.net
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Re: [EVDL] 120-240Vac Watt-Hour-Meter...

[Ing. Marco Gaxiola via EV]

Thanks everyone that sent me a recommentadion. Cor, I actually
contacted EKM Metering some weeks ago; and a tech guy just recommended that
one you say. But yes, once you get all pieces together it results quite
expensive for the intended purpose (to be inside of a car and use it only as
a kilowatt hour meter) nothing else. This EKM solutions includes lots of
other things ideal for a stationary solutions, not mobile that I will never
use.

I think the best and cheapest way to go, as Russ Sciville said; is
to use a common domestic meter. Not the nicest and space saving option, but
useful.

Actually, with my basic EKM US$90.00 solution
(http://www.ekmmetering.com/basic-kwh-meter-100a-120-240-volt-3-wire-60hz-ek
m-25ids.html) I can track all power poured into my vehicle as long as I
connect to 240Vac. And only at emergencies when running out of electrons,
that I'm forced to plug my EV into a 120V outlet; I lose metering those watt
hours. For correcting that, I use to write a log on a notepad every week or
month, take those numbers to an excel file and then make the kw/hr
adjustment considering a known cost per kw. Anyway, that notepad is the one
I use to have an exact cost of my driving.

 Thanks...

Saludos..!!


Ing. Marco Gaxiola
ma...@energyev.com
Off: +52(662)301.1070
Mob: +521(662)169.0140
www.energyev.com  

    


-Mensaje original-
De: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] En nombre de Cor van de Water via
EV
Enviado el: sábado, 27 de diciembre de 2014 04:27 p.m.
Para: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Asunto: Re: [EVDL] 120-240Vac Watt-Hour-Meter...

I saw this meter used in an other application where it will get either 120V
or 240V and it is actually spec'ed to work that way:
http://www.ekmmetering.com/ekm-omnimeter-i-v-3-universal-smart-meter-sin
gle-phase-or-3-phase-120-to-480v-50-60hz-up-to-5000-amps.html
Note that it does require a single Current Transformer and it has insulated
signals for pulse (metering) or serial communication.
It is not cheap but does the job well.
Another variant of this meter is used in the new JuiceBox versions.
They use the UL approved version of this meter.

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: cwa...@proxim.com Private: http://www.cvandewater.info
Skype: cor_van_de_water Tel: +1 408 383 7626

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of tomw via EV
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 7:33 AM
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Subject: Re: [EVDL] 120-240Vac Watt-Hour-Meter...

Where did you read that the meter does not work for 120VAC?  The description
for this meter:
http://www.ekmmetering.com/120-240v-package.html
says: "This metering package includes everything you need to meter 120/240v
electrical systems and to send your meter data to the cloud."
And it has piercing connectors for neutral as well as the two hot leads.

Seems it should work.
I have an EKM that is 5 years old and it works similar to yours - doesn't
record on 120VAC - but it does not have the separate current transformers
nor pierced neutral that the above meter has.  I would email or call EKM to
check.  Not recording on 120VAC is not a problem for me since I never use
120VAC.



--
View this message in context:
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Watt-Hour-Meter-tp4672842p4672857.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.
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Re: [EVDL] 120-240Vac Watt-Hour-Meter...

[Ing. Marco Gaxiola via EV]

Cor, yes! Precisely I already have that model on my actual EV:

https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/109469848356360136281/albums/585303084103
3632673/6085822862358431218?pid=6085822862358431218&oid=10946984835636013628
1  

It works perfect on 240Vac; but on 120Vac everything seems to work
too (the LCD screen comes on and the Pulse LED flashes, which confirms the
power supply works too) but the watt-hour counter never advance. So, unless
I connect my EV into 240V the meter count will advance and keep the track of
energy used. When I use 120V; which I try to avoid most of the times but not
always is possible, I need to calculate the Kwatts poured in by tracking the
time being connected there.

I use this info to write it into an excel file, where I also put the
ODO trip information every several days or every month, and my monthly
utility bill. Then I get my Kilowatt per Kilometer usage, cost of kilometer,
max-min efficiency days/trips, etc.

https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/109469848356360136281/albums/585303084103
3632673/6085822806958060978?pid=6085822806958060978&oid=10946984835636013628
1  

David, that is exactly the point of use a Watt-hr-meter inside the
car; to have a Kilometer/Watt-hr track no matter where you plug the car
(this includes not using an EVSE). This way you will have an any time true
power consumption of the car either it is used on lights, driving, radio or
anything else, just like the Odometer of all cars as an indicator of all
Km(miles) used for the life of the car. 



Ing. Marco Gaxiola
ma...@energyev.com
Off: +52(662)301.1070
Mob: +521(662)169.0140
www.energyev.com  

    


-Mensaje original-
De: David Kerzel [mailto:a...@bellsouth.net] 
Enviado el: martes, 25 de noviembre de 2014 05:14 p.m.
Para: 'Ing. Marco Gaxiola'; 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'
CC: ma...@energyev.com
Asunto: RE: [EVDL] 120-240Vac Watt-Hour-Meter...

Marco
We have integrated watt-hour meters in to some or our EVSE units.  120, 208
or 240VAC is not a problem nor is a design for 100A RMS.   The system we
have used also measures voltage, current and power factor.  The current
measurement is used in the EVSE to stop the charge on over pilot current
situations before the main breaker trips and keeping the EVSE operational.
On the EVSE side you know how much energy is getting used and it can be
tracked by user or vehicle.
I had not thought about using one in the vehicle but it might interest some
people to track miles/watt-hr.
If anyone else is interested please write.

David Kerzel
Modular EV Power LLC
http://modularevpower.com 

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Ing. Marco Gaxiola
via EV
Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2014 2:27 PM
To: 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'
Subject: [EVDL] 120-240Vac Watt-Hour-Meter...


I’m trying to find a Watt-hour-meter that can work on a single phase
either for 120 or 240Vac. Similar to this one from EKM-Metering: (can retain
cumulative watt-hour data)

http://www.ekmmetering.com/basic-kwh-meter-100a-120-240-volt-3-wire-60hz-ekm
-25ids.html

Want to install it on an EV conversion that will be capable of
recharge either on 120Vac or 240Vac (L1 or L2) using a J1772 inlet, so no
wire or manual configuration must be done. This will let me the ability to
connect the car on any 120 or 240 outlet as any L2 public charging and have
a track of all ‘life power consumed’ from the car. 

Does some one knows any different option? 



Ing. Marco Gaxiola
ma...@energyev.com
Off: +52(662)301.1070
Mob: +521(662)169.0140
www.energyev.com  



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[EVDL] 120-240Vac Watt-Hour-Meter...

[Ing. Marco Gaxiola via EV]

I’m trying to find a Watt-hour-meter that can work on a single phase
either for 120 or 240Vac. Similar to this one from EKM-Metering: (can retain
cumulative watt-hour data)

http://www.ekmmetering.com/basic-kwh-meter-100a-120-240-volt-3-wire-60hz-ekm
-25ids.html

Want to install it on an EV conversion that will be capable of
recharge either on 120Vac or 240Vac (L1 or L2) using a J1772 inlet, so no
wire or manual configuration must be done. This will let me the ability to
connect the car on any 120 or 240 outlet as any L2 public charging and have
a track of all ‘life power consumed’ from the car. 

Does some one knows any different option? 



Ing. Marco Gaxiola
ma...@energyev.com
Off: +52(662)301.1070
Mob: +521(662)169.0140
www.energyev.com  




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[EVDL] Kickstarting the EV Revolution...

[Ing. Marco Gaxiola via EV]

Kickstarting the EV Revolution

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/article/20141109024930-124366514-kickstarting
-the-ev-revolution?trk=hb_ntf_MEGAPHONE_ARTICLE_POST


A small company in San Diego aims to defy automaker's reluctance to
advertise their electric car offerings and will put EVs squarely in front of
mainstream consumers in 2015.

Electric Car Insider magazine has created a Kickstarter campaign to fund the
creation and distribution of their 2015 EV Buyers Guide and place it at eye
level retail throughout the US. The print publication lists a full-page
profile of every production EV available for sale. The company plans to
place the guide on more than 1,000 newsstands across the US.

Christopher Alan, the magazine's publisher explained that because most
automakers limit the sale of EVs to just eight states that require the sale
of zero emission cars and do not advertise the vehicles widely, the general
public remains woefully uninformed about the benefits of driving electric.

According to Alan, “The unfortunate reality is that most automakers do not
advertise their electric cars, and auto dealers do not promote the cars. The
initial high prices of electric cars at their introduction in 2010 and 2011
has given way to some incredible bargains in 2014. Nine EVs are now
available for less than $200 per month. Fuel cost savings often offset the
monthly cost entirely, making EVs free cars for many commuters. But most
people haven't kept up with developments and are unaware that electric cars
are now very cheap to purchase and drive. We aim to change that.”

The go-slow approach by automakers on EVs is an open secret. In their
November issue, Car & Driver's technical editor Eric Tingwall goes as far as
to say “...at present, no carmaker (other than Tesla) wants to sell one more
electric than it absolutely has to.” A recent study by UC Davis professor
Dan Sperling and researcher Eric Cahill found the extent of the lack of
dealer support for electric vehicles “troubling”.

But among people familiar with EVs, there is an enthusiasm that ranges from
fan to fanatic. Drivers of electric cars form EV clubs, avidly post in
online forums, hold national rallies and give ride & drives in their
personal cars to both friends and strangers. Advocates cite motivations
ranging from environmental concerns to national security to substantial
personal savings as reasons to drive electric.

Electric Car Insider's Alan urged consumers to vote with their wallet and
pledge $20 to help move the needle on progress toward mainstream awareness
and use of electric vehicles. Alan has offered loans of his personal car, a
Tesla Model S, as one of the Kickstarter pledge rewards.

The Electric Car Insider 2015 EV Buyers Guide Kickstarter page is at:
http://kck.st/1zBzwt2

or search Kickstarter.com for Electric Car Insider.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/electric-car-insider/electric-car-insid
er-magazine-2015-ev-buyers-guide



Ing. Marco Gaxiola
ma...@energyev.com
Off: +52(662)301.1070
Mob: +521(662)169.0140
www.energyev.com  


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Re: [EVDL] Earth Drive-Electric Week

[Ing. Marco Gaxiola via EV]

Do not forget Mexico, We are having our 2nd 'International Plug In Day' event 
too. (In Hermosillo, Mexico) We dephased a week later since some friends from 
Tuson and Phoenix Az are joining us after NDEW. 

(Go for pictures)
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.619062318157439.1073741837.586181398112198&type=3

Now having support from NISSAN Zero Emissions Mexico division. 

A very succsesfull and full of people event last year!

(For some media and tv documentals) 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wklkQ_c3CWM

http://youtu.be/GAHbjmNLSJQ

Marco Gaxiola

Enviado desde mi iPhone



> El 06/09/2014, a las 01:28 p.m., brucedp5 via EV  escribió:
> 
> [ref
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/National-Drive-Electric-Week-tp4671425.html
> ]
> 
> NY isn't the only EVent happening the week of Sept 15-21, looking at their
> EVent page
> https://driveelectricweek.org/events.php
> you can find one of these EVents near you. 
> 
> Also you can see by the map that there are EVents happening in Canada, and
> in Europe. So, really this celebration has grown beyond just the U.S.
> Perhaps it should be called an International or World Drive Electric Week.
> 
> 
> {brucedp.150m.com}
> 
> 
> 
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/National-Drive-Electric-Week-tp4671425p4671427.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at 
> Nabble.com.
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> 
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