Re: [EVDL] EV Album Website

[Matthew Quitter via EV]

I recommend the EV Album website regularly to people who enquire about 
conversions. It’s a very valuable resource!!!

Sent from my iPhone

> On 29 Sep 2019, at 15:28, John Lussmyer via EV  wrote:
> 
> On Sun Sep 29 06:11:13 PDT 2019 ev@lists.evdl.org said:
>> The real question is in a world of mass produced electric cars, how valuable 
>> is the Album anymore?  Should only conversions be included or only old 
>> production EVs, or should the whole thing just go away?  The Album has been 
>> up something like 20 years and that is an eternity on the internet.   Does 
>> it still have a valid purpose?
> 
> Definitely useful.  I talk to a LOT of people at car shows (I show my EV F250 
> a lot) who are considering converting some vehicle they really like.  I 
> always suggest they search the EV Album to see if/how other people have 
> converted that vehicle.
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Bobcats and Cougars, oh my!  http://john.casadelgato.com/Pets
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ev@lists.evdl.org

[Matthew Quitter via EV]

Fascinating stuff, thanks Paul!

Sent from my iPhone

> On 21 Aug 2019, at 10:15, Paul Compton via EV  wrote:
> 
> This is of course, Cedric Lynch's machine. It's been on the road, with
> one major rebuild due to an accident, since the early 1990s.
> 
> This is 'Lynch' as in the eponymous motor. The prototype motors were
> built in the garden shed belonging to Cedric's parents and initially,
> lacking access to 'magnetic steel' the laminations were made of metal
> recovered from tin cans. The design of the motor was simply based on
> the shapes that could be cut with simple hand tools.
> 
> When I first met Cedric and encountered this machine, it was running a
> single 165Ah 12v semi deep-cycle battery. The controller was just a
> two step system with a starting resistor, with most of the speed
> control being done with a Derailleur type gearing system. Another
> clever Cedric design, this used two gear 'blocks', with the front one
> facing the opposite way to the rear. The chain was stepped across both
> blocks at the same time, keeping the chain run straight and at nearly
> the same tension. This allowed downshifting to achieve regen braking
> and in this form, Cedric had achieved a real world journey of around
> 120 miles, albeit at a low average speed of under 25mph.
> 
> The information from the BVS at that time, was that electronic motor
> control had poor efficiency and that might have been true of the SCR
> controllers available used at the time (although you've always got to
> watch out for a system with apparently poor PEAK efficiency, actually
> having better AVERAGE efficiency under the operating conditions). I
> encouraged Cedric to go to a much higher voltage and to adopt a modern
> high frequency MOSFET controller. He did so, first I think going to 36
> and the 48 Volt. I recall him using Optima Yellowtops and also Exide
> Orbitals, but changed to Thundersky Lithium cells when these became
> available. With a nominal 100Ah at 48 Volt, Cedric could now make the
> journey between the Lynch Motor Company premises in Honiton, Devon and
> his home in Potter's Bar, in Hertfordshire. That's a trip of around
> 150 miles and Cedric could average nearly 50mph. A 60 volt pack, made
> up from old cells that now have excessive internal resistance, is
> charged by a couple of PV panels on Cedric's shed roof and the vehicle
> charged from them by simply paralleling the two packs.
> 
> As far as I know, there is no Balsa wood used in it's construction. It
> has a lightweight steel tube frame and uses a combination of light
> motorcycle and mountain bicycle components in the wheels. The front
> suspension is a variation of a virtual steering axis system, similar
> to that used on the OEC Duplex of the 1930's.
> 
> There are quite a few pictures of this machine on
> http://bikeweb.com/image/tid/57
> 
>> On Wed, 21 Aug 2019 at 00:46, brucedp5 via EV  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> https://metro.co.uk/2019/08/20/police-stop-homemade-car-made-balsa-wood-duct-tape-10599191/
>> Police stop homemade car made out of balsa wood and duct tape
>> 20 Aug 2019  Basit Mahmood
>> 
>> [images  / Anglia Press Agency
>> https://i2.wp.com/metro.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/PRI_808426911-e1566288148535.jpg
>> The three wheeler was made out of duct tape and balsa wood
>> 
>> https://i1.wp.com/metro.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/PRI_808426901.jpg
>> Bedfordshire Police say the vehicle didn’t cause an obstruction to other
>> road users
>> ]
>> 
>> [image]  The officer who pulled the strange vehicle over admitted he still
>> didn’t know what it was
>> 
>> Traffic cops were left stunned after they had to pullover a vehicle that
>> resembled a small boat on Britain’s busiest motorway.
>> 
>> Made out of balsa wood and duct tape, officers described the electric
>> vehicle as the most ‘unusual’ they’ve had to stop in 26 years.
>> 
>> The three wheeler was spotted on the M25 in Bedfordshire on Sunday.
>> 
>> The officer who pulled the vehicle over tweeted: ‘All checked and in order,
>> although still not convinced I know what it is.’
>> 
>> Social media users were quick to offer their own explanations about what
>> they thought the vehicle was, from a modified motorcycle to a German made
>> vehicle.
>> 
>> Another added that it looked like a ‘Co-Op home shopping delivery vehicle’,
>> while others questioned how it could be considered safe.
>> 
>> Bedfordshire police were able to confirm that the vehicle was approved and
>> registered by the DVLA, and is in fact a motorbike with a plastic shell
>> built around it.
>> 
>> Sergeant Stephen Andrews, from the Bedfordshire, Cambridgeshire and
>> Hertfordshire Roads Policing Unit, told Metro.co.uk: ‘This is certainly not
>> a vehicle that is seen very often on our roads, but after road side
>> inspection we couldn’t find anything that would prevent the rider to
>> continue his journey.
>> 
>> ‘The vehicle was keeping up with other traffic and didn’t cause any
>> obstruction to other road users.

[EVDL] Curtis 1238-7501 Firmware

[Matthew Quitter via EV]

Hi Guys,

I recently lucked on to a super cheap Curtis 1238-7501 and some old
Thundersky Prismatics.

The only problem is the Curtis has some kind of current limiter at lower
rpm ranges hard coded into the VCL. I believe it was originally purchased
to go into a single gear small car and the amp limiter was to stop
employees going too fast. I'm using it in a geared mid size car so it's
making pulling off the lights really slow!

I would like to flash the firmware. I have the Curtis software to do this
but don't have any firmware versions specifically for the 1238-7501.
Reluctant to try a firmware from the 1238-6501.

Does anyone have or know a link to download a stock firmware release for
this controller?

Many thanks,
Matthew

07966 806 727
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Re: [EVDL] involute spline: Nissan Leaf Motor

[Matthew Quitter via EV]

Thanks Bruce and Paul for your replies.

I'm familiar with the Google search results.

We're trying to find the specific engineering standard used by Nissan to
make the involute spline e.g. JIS 2001D.

Up till now everyone seems content with cutting out clutch centers from
Fiat or Suzuki and welding them into a coupler as a "good enough" fit.

We'll be sending the output shaft to an engineering firm that can find out
what the standard is.

>From there we can get accurate couplers made.





On Sun, 12 May 2019 at 07:26, brucedp5 via EV  wrote:

> [ref
>
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Nissan-Leaf-Motor-td4693533.html
> ]
>
> I found several links to explore with a search
> https://www.google.com/search?q=involute+spline+nissan+leaf
>  on  involute spline nissan leaf  with some links on the leaf forum
>
>
>
>
> For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
>  http://evdl.org/archive/
>
>
> {brucedp.neocities.org}
>
> --
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[EVDL] Nissan Leaf Motor

[Matthew Quitter via EV]

Hey EVDL,

I’m trying to use a Nissan Leaf motor in a conversion and have been told the 
Leaf motor output shaft uses an ‘involuted spline’ and it’s to a specific 
standard. 

Does anyone happen to know the involuted spline standard that Nissan uses for 
the output shaft?

Many thanks,
Matthew
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Re: [EVDL] Tesla battery cells (no BMS) burst into flame...

[Matthew Quitter via EV]

I still don’t know what actually caused the fault. 

From what I watched on the video and previous ones on that project they’re 
still in the preliminary planning stages.  It appears the pack was not 
connected to anything, just placed in the car. Is that correct?

Which would suggest it spontaneously failed - something I’ve never heard of and 
tell customers never happens. Worrying as I have 10 Tesla Model S modules 
sitting waiting to go into a couple projects!

Perhaps there was a defect in the module? Or it was removed from its plastic 
casing and rested against something conductive?!

I would like to know what actually caused the initial failure before thermal 
runaway. 

Matthew

London Electric Cars


> On 4 Dec 2018, at 17:15, EVDL Administrator via EV  wrote:
> 
> Not that I want to start an argument, but IMO those folks who say "I don't 
> need no stinkin' BMS!" should be required to watch the hot action part of 
> that video clip at least once -- just so they give it a little more thought.
> 
> The "live ammo" question from the firefighters is telling.  It DID look and 
> sound like that.  There's a spectacular amount of energy in those little 
> lithium cells, and it can do unsettling things when it's released all at 
> once.
> 
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
> 
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
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Re: [EVDL] Hb404

[Matthew Quitter via EV]

Good info Steve! I use the 404 sometimes in that fashion. 

Thanks,
Matthew


> On 25 May 2018, at 14:38, Steve Clunn via EV  wrote:
> 
> This is a great meter at a good price but I have found one glitch that
> people should know about when using this meter to turn off battery chargers
> at a set voltage. The way the instructions show to hook the meter up
> requires that the meter not lose power for it to hold the battery charger
> relay in an off State. So if you lose your 12 volt power that powers the
> meter it won't shut off the relay that you have controlling your battery
> charger. If you configure it the other way so that when the relay in the
> meter is on the battery charger is on then you constantly have the relay in
> the meter on and drawing current. This is not so  bad a trade-off but adds
> more to your 12 volt load.  if the relay that's turning your charger off is
> also on the 12 volt system then having the 12 volt system go down may not
> cause a problem as your relay that's controlling the charger will also
> stop   but that said it is something to think about when you're setting
> your system up. One could also set the meter up so that when the batteries
> were fully charged and the meter relay turned off the charger that it also
> turned off the power to the meter and then we wouldn't have that continuous
> load on the system.   Steve clunn  with Greenshedconversions.com
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Re: [EVDL] interesting links

[Matthew Quitter via EV]

Thanks Matt! That's a kind offer but I'm perfectly happy not being on
wikipedia!

Whilst I've got people's attention...

The latest complaint I'm getting about EVs here in London is that they
still release particulate matter from their tires and brakes (despite my
insistence that regen decreases friction brake use) and that represents a
considerable pollutant.

Has anyone else experienced that concern?

I came across this thorough review on the subject: http://www.
lowemissionstrategies.org/downloads/Jan15/Non_Exhaust_Particles11.pdf

Previously I'd only encountered the idea through this inflammatory piece
last year which rung the bell of the London cycling lobby.
https://eandt.theiet.org/content/articles/2017/03/particle-pollution-from-
electric-cars-could-be-worse-than-from-diesel-ones/

Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Matthew



07966 806 727


On 20 March 2018 at 01:30, Matt Lacey via EV  wrote:

> We could always add to the page.  Or even make you one Matthew
>
> ⁣Sent from BlueMail ​
>
> On 20 Mar. 2018, 08:43, at 08:43, Matthew Quitter via EV <
> ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:
> >I had no idea he started on a 944! How interesting.
> >
> >PS if I ever get a wikipedia page I’ll make sure EVDL is mentioned all
> >over it. ;).
> >
> >> On 19 Mar 2018, at 18:08, Rod Hower via EV  wrote:
> >>
> >> I still remember when JB was on the EVDL posting about that Porshe
> >and getting advice from Lee Hart and other longtime list members!
> >>
> >>
> >>On Monday, March 19, 2018 12:53 PM, Willie via EV
> > wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> https://www.rathascourage.com/author%20bio%20
> >> http://www.evalbum.com/223
> >>
> >> Interestingly, JB's early activities are not mentioned in his
> >wikipedia
> >> article
> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._B._Straubel
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> >>
> >>
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Re: [EVDL] interesting links

[Matthew Quitter via EV]

I had no idea he started on a 944! How interesting. 

PS if I ever get a wikipedia page I’ll make sure EVDL is mentioned all over it. 
;). 

> On 19 Mar 2018, at 18:08, Rod Hower via EV  wrote:
> 
> I still remember when JB was on the EVDL posting about that Porshe and 
> getting advice from Lee Hart and other longtime list members!
> 
> 
>On Monday, March 19, 2018 12:53 PM, Willie via EV  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> https://www.rathascourage.com/author%20bio%20
> http://www.evalbum.com/223
> 
> Interestingly, JB's early activities are not mentioned in his wikipedia 
> article
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._B._Straubel
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Re: [EVDL] Tests for second hand purchase

[Matthew Quitter via EV]

Thanks Cor!

Funny, I hadn’t even considered asking for a warranty.  Not the advice I was 
expecting but excellent!

The seller says it is unused equipment but I always like to double check. 

Thank you for the help. 



> On 29 Jan 2018, at 21:23, Cor van de Water via EV  wrote:
> 
> Matthew,
> In my order of preference:
> 1- buy from someone you trust (and others vouch for if you have little 
> experience with them)
> 2- get a written warranty
> 3- consider the money lost in case the quality is not as advertised.
> 
> You may be able to do some crude tests such as guesstimate internal 
> resistance of the cells by loading them with a 100 Amp load and measuring 
> drop,
> but more important is the remaining capacity of the weakest cell and it is 
> not likely you can determine that from 36 cells in an hour or two.
> 
> It may be possible to wire up the controller to a power source and make the 
> motor spin, which would tell you about obvious damage to bearings or balance,
> but it is not likely you can easily test it to the limits that it will see on 
> a freeway doing redline, so again you will find out later if the motor is as 
> good as advertised.
> 
> Testing the controller beyond the digital interface that you are already 
> going to access with your program is the same as I wrote above.
> 
> One of the best ways to find out history is to know where the kit came from, 
> so you can ask the previous owner about his use and experience with it.
> Success and I hope this helps,
> Cor.
> 
> -----Original Message-
> From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Matthew Quitter via 
> EV
> Sent: Monday, January 29, 2018 1:13 PM
> To: ev@lists.evdl.org
> Cc: Matthew Quitter
> Subject: [EVDL] Tests for second hand purchase
> 
> Hi guys, 
> 
> I’m off to look at, with an aim to purchase, a bunch of second hand kit: An 
> AC-50, Curtis 1238 and 36 160Ah Thundersky. 
> 
> They’re not installed in anything. I wont have the time to rig the whole kit 
> up to bench test. 
> 
> Has anyone got any suggestions for what tests can be done on a motor and 
> batteries, within an hour or two, to check their condition?
> 
> I can easily bring an RC charger and voltmeter with me. 
> I also have the Curtis 1314 software on a PC and can use to look at the 1238. 
> 
> Is there something that can be used as a suitable test load for the cells?
> 
> What do you guys do when buying second hand EV parts with an unknown history?
> 
> Thank you!
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[EVDL] Tests for second hand purchase

[Matthew Quitter via EV]

Hi guys, 

I’m off to look at, with an aim to purchase, a bunch of second hand kit: An 
AC-50, Curtis 1238 and 36 160Ah Thundersky. 

They’re not installed in anything. I wont have the time to rig the whole kit up 
to bench test. 

Has anyone got any suggestions for what tests can be done on a motor and 
batteries, within an hour or two, to check their condition?

I can easily bring an RC charger and voltmeter with me. 
I also have the Curtis 1314 software on a PC and can use to look at the 1238. 

Is there something that can be used as a suitable test load for the cells?

What do you guys do when buying second hand EV parts with an unknown history?

Thank you!
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Re: [EVDL] Curtis WinVCL Software and OS download

[Matthew Quitter via EV]

Hey Cruisin!

Thanks for the email. Yeah I've been knocking on Curtis' door trying to get
WinVCL and they're not particularly interested... probably doesn't help
that it's Curtis UK.

Is it possible to re-flash the controller without their software?

All the best,
Matthew

07966 806 727


On 25 August 2017 at 21:33, Cruisin via EV  wrote:

> You will NOT find Curtis VCL available as a download, as it is only
> available
> to OEM and closely guarded. The only way to solve your problem which I
> have done with many others is to re-flash the 1238 with the latest OS
> which removes all VC and allows you to reprogram to your needs. without
> any VCL limitations. Contact me if you need additional information.
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-
> discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Curtis-WinVCL-
> Software-and-OS-download-tp4687750p4687791.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
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Re: [EVDL] Curtis WinVCL Software and OS download

[Matthew Quitter via EV]

Thanks Gail. Google is always my first port of call. 

Have exhausted the first few pages of search results. Was hoping there might be 
some insider knowledge from the EVDL. 


> On 20 Aug 2017, at 20:39, Gail Lucas via EV  wrote:
> 
> I did a search on WinVCL, found this. There were other references. Try asking 
> Google to find info for you.
> 
> curtisinstruments.com/Uploads/DataSheets/1310%20(09B).pdf
> 
> Gail
> 
>> On 8/20/2017 9:46 AM, Matthew Quitter via EV wrote:
>> Does anyone have any experience with WinVCL and is there a copy of it
>> available anywhere online?
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[EVDL] Curtis WinVCL Software and OS download

[Matthew Quitter via EV]

Hi Guys,

Firstly thanks for all your info and chat about the Curtis 1238 SOC and the
subsequent discussion about the measuring of power in a pack.

I managed to get the 1314 software going and find out that the OEM of my
Curtis (a defunct UK company called the Electric Car Company) set the BDI
to  reset to 100% when it sees a 91V pack voltage.

However somewhere in the process the charging interlock on the Curtis
failed and now I can't get it out of charge mode.

The OEM added some VCL custom code so that Switch 5 on Pin 11 on the
Curtis, when an open circuit, determines that it's in charge mode. And
using the 1314 software I'm able to see that even when I put KSI voltage
into pin 11 it stays open.

I was hoping to use WinVCL and change the VCL embedded code so that I can
use one of the spare switches as the charging interlock.

Does anyone have any experience with WinVCL and is there a copy of it
available anywhere online?

Many thanks!
Matthew

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Re: [EVDL] Curtis 1238-6501 State of Charge

[Matthew Quitter via EV]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for all the feedback, really interesting.

I have a 10 year old battery pack, I got it second hand out of an old
conversion.

The balancers do a great job of keeping the pack balanced, I think they can
move around 10A. Most of the time they can keep the charge in control, it's
only in the last 20% where I guess the charger is doing constant voltage
and I guess is pushing more current than the balancers can move. Or the
batteries are reaching their limit and no amount of balancing is going to
add more charge to certain cells.

Basically my pack has a couple of outlier cells that charge really slowly
(as in their voltage doesn't change) and a couple of cells that charge
really quickly (the voltage rises up and over 4V quite quickly). I've found
that looking at the cell voltages gives a fairly accurate representation of
the SOC. I've logged each cell every few hours, particularly after a charge
or a drive, over a week or two and everything was fine until recently. I
measure down to the millivolt. Is that accurate enough? And our temperature
here is so stable, particularly in the underground garage where I keep the
car that I can't imagine the internal temp of the battery is really that
different to ambient but I don't know much about all this. Will go and do
some research.

It's like the Curtis SOC has missed a chunk of Ah going into the pack. I
guess I'll have to draw the pack down using a load to get the charger and
the Curtis on the same wavelength again. I looked at single cell
charger/discharger but the ones I saw do max 2A and the maths of 25 160Ah
cells meant I was facing two months of slowly discharging cells!

I've gotten a lot conflicting advice about the max charge voltage of a
Thundersky cell. Bill said to not let them go above 3.8V while the
Thundersky page -
http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/Manuals/Thundersky%20Product%20Manual.pdf -
says 4.25V. I tend to stop the charging when cells get over 4V. Is that
causing damage to the battery?

I was planning on building my own charge monitoring system using an arduino
to monitor individual cell voltages and if any one cell goes above say 3.8V
then shut off charging for a period of time to let the balancers work. And
then shut off the entire charge once the pack reached a fixed voltage - say
88V. But you guys are saying that shutting of charge at 88V would not give
me an accurate reflection of a fully charged pack. I'll look at the Ah
meters you linked to.

Many thanks,
Matthew

07966 806 727


On 8 August 2017 at 08:00, Bill Dube via EV  wrote:

> In LFP, temperature influences voltage more than SOC in the region of 20%
> to 80% SOC. The voltage changes just a tiny amount between 20% and 80% SOC.
>
> Basically, if the voltage changes it is more likely to be due to a change
> in temperature, than a change in SOC.
>
> Indeed, you could measure the temperature of each cell, along with the
> voltage, to tease out the SOC, but you need the average internal
> temperature of the cell, rather than the external temperature of the cell,
> and you need a very accurate measure of voltage. It is way simpler and
> cheaper to count amps.
>
>
>
> On 8/7/2017 2:31 PM, paul dove via EV wrote:
>
>> Sure you can. Voltage is the only way to discern SOC.
>> You just can't measure accurately under load. You have to measure open
>> circuit voltage.
>> www.mdpi.com/1996-1073/9/11/900/pdf
>>
>>
>>
>>From: Willie via EV 
>>   To: Matthew Quitter via EV 
>>   Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 9:13 PM
>>   Subject: Re: [EVDL] Curtis 1238-6501 State of Charge
>>
>>
>> On 08/06/2017 07:38 PM, Matthew Quitter via EV wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Guys,
>>>
>>> My 1238-6501 Curtis controller gives very different SOC % for similar
>>> voltages.
>>>
>>> For example I've recorded a pack voltage of 82.2 and had the Curtis show
>>> 22%, 31%, 43%.
>>>
>>> The pack is made up of 25 Thundersky 160Ah batteries.
>>>
>> With LFP cells, you can't accurately infer SOC from voltages in the
>> middle of the range.  The voltage/SOC curve is too flat.
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Re: [EVDL] Curtis 1238-6501 State of Charge

[Matthew Quitter via EV]

Hey Willie,

I've used that website so many times to look at other conversions and never
once thought of putting myself up there. Will do!

Thanks,
Matthew

07966 806 727


On 7 August 2017 at 17:14, Willie via EV  wrote:

>
>
> On 08/07/2017 10:58 AM, Matthew Quitter via EV wrote:
>
>> Thanks Bill, sorry I'll try and give you more information.
>>
>
> I don't find a Quitter on http://evalbum.com
> If you are there, you should tell us how to find you.  If not, you should
> consider making an EVAlbum page.
>
>
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Re: [EVDL] Curtis 1238-6501 State of Charge

[Matthew Quitter via EV]

Thanks Bill, sorry I'll try and give you more information.

I'm using a Zivan NG3 charger and don't have a BMS at the moment, just a
bunch of QNBBM cell balancers.

Previously I stopped the charge manually when the Curtis was saying 100%.
The Zivan also displays a charging progress and it would also be at 100%.
But lately the Curtis is saying 30% when the Zivan is showing 80% complete
and some of the cells are starting to jump up to 4V during that phase of
the charge. Whenever a cell goes over 4V I've been stopping the charge and
allowing the cell balancers to even out the pack again.

Is there anything other information I should be providing?

Thanks for your help.

Matthew



It all came out of a working car and has been fine until recently when the
pack

07966 806 727


On 7 August 2017 at 15:13, Bill Dube via EV  wrote:

> You have not given quite enough information about your system to fully
> understand your issue.
>
> However, to fully charge your 25 LFP cells to 100% SOC, your charger
> should shut off at a voltage of a minimum of ~3.45 volts on all cells.
> The full-charged pack voltage should be 87.5 volts, or a bit more.
>
> 3.6 to 3.8 volts on the highest cells is where your BMS should be set to
> reduce the output of your charger. You should not be going over ~3.8 volts
> on any cell.
>
> Your charger should be controlled by your BMS somehow, hopefully.
>
> Like I said, we need a bit more information on your system to understand
> exactly what your problem really is.
>
> Bill D.
>
>
> On 8/7/2017 12:53 AM, Matthew Quitter wrote:
>
>> Thanks guys... but if the charger is turning off at a fixed voltage how
>> do I get more power into the pack?
>>
>>
>> On 7 Aug 2017, at 05:02, Bill Dube via EV  wrote:
>>>
>>> I agree. Voltage on LFP cells is useless for determining the SOC.
>>> The voltage is very constant except at near 100% SOC and at 0% SOC.
>>> You really need information about the middle, and voltage doesn't give
>>> any clue about that.
>>>
>>> You need to count the amp-hours, like with an E-meter or a Cycle-Analyst.
>>>
>>> Bill D.
>>>
>>> On 8/6/2017 7:00 PM, Willie via EV wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 08/06/2017 07:38 PM, Matthew Quitter via EV wrote:
>>>>> Hi Guys,
>>>>>
>>>>> My 1238-6501 Curtis controller gives very different SOC % for similar
>>>>> voltages.
>>>>>
>>>>> For example I've recorded a pack voltage of 82.2 and had the Curtis
>>>>> show
>>>>> 22%, 31%, 43%.
>>>>>
>>>>> The pack is made up of 25 Thundersky 160Ah batteries.
>>>>>
>>>> With LFP cells, you can't accurately infer SOC from voltages in the
>>>> middle of the range.  The voltage/SOC curve is too flat.
>>>> ___
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>>>>
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Re: [EVDL] Curtis 1238-6501 State of Charge

[Matthew Quitter via EV]

Hi Michael,

Fortunately in the U.K. it never gets that hot!!!

I've got 25 160Ah Thundersky in series. I believe they're 3.3 nominal and 
online it says not to charge over 4V. But I'm never certain about that. 

Thanks,
Matthew

Sent from my iPhone

> On 7 Aug 2017, at 12:59, Michael Ross  wrote:
> 
> The surest way to destroy a pack of LFP cells is to fully charge them and let 
> then get hot as in over 100F. 
> 
> Can you tell us the number of cells and their parallel series configuration? 
> Then specific recs can be made.
> 
> You may want to consider cutting of charging before fully charged state is 
> reached and never let them sit in a hot place if you have charged them to a 
> high SOC.
> 
> The problem is the positive electrode becomes very reactive with the 
> electrolyte when fully charged and temperature sets off a destructive process.
> 
> I speak from experience, but also researching it. There is a long and 
> interesting video on YouTube of professor Jeff Dahn a long time battery's 
> researcher, discussing his. Try searching Jeff Dahn Waterloo lithium or 
> similar. It was a lecture he gave at Waterloo University. Dahn is an 
> electrochemistry at Dalhousie University in Novelty Scotia.
> 
>> On Aug 7, 2017 3:00 AM, "Matthew Quitter via EV"  wrote:
>> Thanks guys... but if the charger is turning off at a fixed voltage how do I 
>> get more power into the pack?
>> 
>> 
>> > On 7 Aug 2017, at 05:02, Bill Dube via EV  wrote:
>> >
>> > I agree. Voltage on LFP cells is useless for determining the SOC.
>> > The voltage is very constant except at near 100% SOC and at 0% SOC.
>> > You really need information about the middle, and voltage doesn't give any 
>> > clue about that.
>> >
>> > You need to count the amp-hours, like with an E-meter or a Cycle-Analyst.
>> >
>> > Bill D.
>> >
>> >> On 8/6/2017 7:00 PM, Willie via EV wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> On 08/06/2017 07:38 PM, Matthew Quitter via EV wrote:
>> >>> Hi Guys,
>> >>>
>> >>> My 1238-6501 Curtis controller gives very different SOC % for similar
>> >>> voltages.
>> >>>
>> >>> For example I've recorded a pack voltage of 82.2 and had the Curtis show
>> >>> 22%, 31%, 43%.
>> >>>
>> >>> The pack is made up of 25 Thundersky 160Ah batteries.
>> >>
>> >> With LFP cells, you can't accurately infer SOC from voltages in the 
>> >> middle of the range.  The voltage/SOC curve is too flat.
>> >> ___
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>> >> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
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Re: [EVDL] Curtis 1238-6501 State of Charge

[Matthew Quitter via EV]

Thanks guys... but if the charger is turning off at a fixed voltage how do I 
get more power into the pack?


> On 7 Aug 2017, at 05:02, Bill Dube via EV  wrote:
> 
> I agree. Voltage on LFP cells is useless for determining the SOC.
> The voltage is very constant except at near 100% SOC and at 0% SOC.
> You really need information about the middle, and voltage doesn't give any 
> clue about that.
> 
> You need to count the amp-hours, like with an E-meter or a Cycle-Analyst.
> 
> Bill D.
> 
>> On 8/6/2017 7:00 PM, Willie via EV wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> On 08/06/2017 07:38 PM, Matthew Quitter via EV wrote:
>>> Hi Guys,
>>> 
>>> My 1238-6501 Curtis controller gives very different SOC % for similar
>>> voltages.
>>> 
>>> For example I've recorded a pack voltage of 82.2 and had the Curtis show
>>> 22%, 31%, 43%.
>>> 
>>> The pack is made up of 25 Thundersky 160Ah batteries.
>> 
>> With LFP cells, you can't accurately infer SOC from voltages in the middle 
>> of the range.  The voltage/SOC curve is too flat.
>> ___
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>> 
> 
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[EVDL] Curtis 1238-6501 State of Charge

[Matthew Quitter via EV]

Hi Guys,

My 1238-6501 Curtis controller gives very different SOC % for similar
voltages.

For example I've recorded a pack voltage of 82.2 and had the Curtis show
22%, 31%, 43%.

The pack is made up of 25 Thundersky 160Ah batteries.

It's getting worse too. Now I'm getting the charger turning off at 92V
thinking the pack is fully charged and the Curtis is still at 25%.

Does anyone have experience of this and is there a way to get the Curtis to
recheck the pack voltage?

Many thanks,
Matthew

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[EVDL] Curtis 1238-6501

[Matthew Quitter via EV]

Hi guys,

Quick question haven't had a reply from Curtis tech support. 

I have a second hand Curtis 1238-6501. I can't figure out how to reset the 
State of Charge. It's stuck at 30% no matter the voltage of the pack!

Does anyone know if there is a standard input to reset it or was it something 
the previous owner would have set?

Many thanks,
Matthew

 



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Re: [EVDL] Killed my HPEV AC-31 Motor

[Matthew Quitter via EV]

Many thanks - that's great info.

The guys at HPEVS have been very helpful too, gave me the codes for the
bearings, 6206 and 6207 bearings apparently.

07966 806 727


On 12 April 2017 at 23:14, Cruisin via EV  wrote:

> Bearing failure is a common problem on HPEVS due to inferior
> quality bearings. The encoder is available by ordering from US Digital.
> The rear bearing is easy to replace, but I am sure that yours is OK The
> from bearing is pressed on. Any good machine shop should be able to
> do the work for you. Repalce the front bearing with a good US made
> bearing available most anywhere.
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-
> discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Killed-my-HPEV-AC-
> 31-Motor-tp4686377p4686378.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
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[EVDL] Killed my HPEV AC-31 Motor

[Matthew Quitter via EV]

Hi Guys,

One of the bearings on my AC-31 has started going, causing a loud whining
noise and loss of power in the middle of the RPMs.

Does anyone have experience repairing one of these?

And I've damaged the rotary encoder while poking around in anger and
frustration... never a good way to work but I'd just got the damn car going.

Is it doable to repair one, are the parts readily available etc? I'll need
at least a new bearing and the rotary encoder wheel.

Can't afford to replace it right now!

I'm in the UK.

Many thanks,
Matthew


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Re: [EVDL] Subject: Clean Power bites the dust

[Matthew Quitter via EV]

I recently came across this on the British Battery Vehicle Society:

http://www.batteryvehiclesociety.org.uk/forums/viewforum.php?f=53

And a video of the BMS - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wgyg41GIGxU

Trying to track down the fellow who made it.

07966 806 727


On 8 March 2017 at 17:24, paul dove via EV  wrote:

> Thats good but thermal monitoring is necessary with many chemistries.
> Every laptop battery I have every taken apart had thermal sensors on each
> cell.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Mar 8, 2017, at 10:33 AM, John Lussmyer via EV 
> wrote:
> >
> > On Wed Mar 08 08:08:01 PST 2017 ev@lists.evdl.org said:
> >> Would you share what you're doing to build a BMS, what you've learnt
> etc?
> >
> > This is my 5th BMS version.
> > I originally had units with little micro computers on them, and all
> kinds of nifty digital features. (revs 1 - 3)
> > PITA to program, reliable communications difficult, expensive, and was
> hard to detect individual unit failures.
> > While it was "fun" to watch all the individual voltages on a display, it
> wasn't especially USEFUL to do so.
> >
> > Rev 4 and 5 have gone back to a simple analog system.
> > It detect undervoltage, overvoltage, and has up to 200ma of bypass
> balancing.
> > The only output of the units is a single small LED on each reg (on is
> good!), and a single wire output that is daisychained from unit to unit.
> > The wire is a current loop, so if ANYTHING goes wrong (unit fails, wire
> comes loose, cell goes completely dead, etc..) you loose signal.
> > My in-cab indicator is a green LED that is on if all is good, and a
> buzzer that goes off if something is wrong.
> > I've also hooked up a small relay to shut off the charger if "something
> wrong" happens.
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Worlds only All Electric F-250 truck! http://john.casadelgato.com/
> Electric-Vehicles/1995-Ford-F-250
> >
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Re: [EVDL] Subject: Clean Power bites the dust

[Matthew Quitter via EV]

Would you share what you're doing to build a BMS, what you've learnt etc?

I'm interested in doing something similar, eventually...

07966 806 727


On 8 March 2017 at 15:49, John Lussmyer via EV  wrote:

> On Wed Mar 08 06:31:03 PST 2017 ev@lists.evdl.org said:
> >In the past we have used the Mini BMS on low voltage projects like
> >Electric Lawn Mowers and Golf Carts.  Now that Clean Power is no
> >longer, I have been beta testing other BMS'.  There are many different
>
> And there are also hobbyiests (like me) building their own BMS.
> I'm about to replace the one in my Truck with a newer version.
> So I'll have 240 (or so) units of the old one to sell cheap.  (Most of the
> issues I'm fixing with the new version are ease of installation and
> mounting.)
>
>
>
> --
>
> Bobcats and Cougars, oh my!  http://john.casadelgato.com/Pets
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Re: [EVDL] Clean Power bites the dust

[Matthew Quitter via EV]

I'm looking for a BMS at the moment and have been finding lots of dead webpages 
and defunct companies. 

Anyone able to suggest a good BMS for 25S Lipo other than Orion?

> On 7 Mar 2017, at 15:19, Cruisin via EV  wrote:
> 
> Clean Power (Mini BMS) has closed its doors and no longer in the retail
> business. A recent search has found over 90% of those selling EV parts in
> 2015 are no longer in business. Those that were bedroom distributors may
> still have a web page, but when contacted there was no response. I guess
> they all went back to their day jobs. Too bad, it was a interesting ride
> while it lasted.
> 
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Clean-Power-bites-the-dust-tp4686066.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at 
> Nabble.com.
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[EVDL] Best/Cheapest BMS for 84V 25S Li-Ion Pack

[Matthew Quitter via EV]

Hi Guys,

I blew my BMS today. Feels like an EV rite of passage.

It was a proprietary system from an older EV conversion by a now defunct UK
company so I have no way of discovering what's going on inside, I have been
unable to find any documentation.

My system is 84V from 25 Thundersky 160Ah batteries.  I have a Curtis 1238
Controller.

Does anyone have any suggestions for a BMS?

I've only managed to find Orion and Elithion that look convincing.

Many thanks,
Matthew

07966 806 727
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Re: [EVDL] Any truth in these claims?

[Matthew Quitter via EV]

 you would need cables
> the size of a bench press world champion's arms. The voltage that
> various EV manufacturers choose has nothing to do with the source of
> electricity (it has everything to do with the losses due to high
> current), so you have to figure that they aren't telling the complete
> story.
>
> They don't mention anything about sitting on a stack of hydrogen tanks
> or where the hydrogen comes from, either.
>
> Peri
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Matthew Quitter via EV" 
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
> Cc:
> Sent: 16-Feb-17 7:36:29 AM
> Subject: [EVDL] Any truth in these claims?
>
> >Found on social media today... sounds somewhat fantastic in both senses
>
> >of the word.
> >
> >Headline:
> >300 km/h in The World's First Electric Sports Car with 48 V Low-Voltage
>
> >Flow Cell Drive
> >
> >First para:
> >It took a long time. The development team at nanoFlowcell Holdings had
> >worked for several years to make fuel cells directly controllable.
> >Having
> >finally succeeded in achieving direct variable control of a fuel cell
> >in October 2016, the company now wants to demonstrate the potential of
> >direct fuel cell drive and has built a true eye-catcher in the shape of
>
> >the world's fastest eco sports car. The QUANT 48VOLT is the prototype
> >of a new generation of electric vehicles. It is equipped with what is
> >currently the safest, most powerful, environmentally compatible and
> >economical drive system for electric vehicles that could be built in
> >series production, and provides a view of our future mobility.
> >
> >http://emagazine.nanoflowcell.com/technology/300-kmh-in-the-worlds-firs
> >t-electric-sports-car-with-48-v-low-voltage-flow-cell-drive/
> >
> >
> >07966 806 727
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> >racing at NEDRA
> >(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
> >
>
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[EVDL] Any truth in these claims?

[Matthew Quitter via EV]

Found on social media today... sounds somewhat fantastic in both senses of
the word.

Headline:
300 km/h in The World’s First Electric Sports Car with 48 V Low-Voltage
Flow Cell Drive

First para:
It took a long time. The development team at nanoFlowcell Holdings had
worked for several years to make fuel cells directly controllable. Having
finally succeeded in achieving direct variable control of a fuel cell in
October 2016, the company now wants to demonstrate the potential of direct
fuel cell drive and has built a true eye-catcher in the shape of the
world's fastest eco sports car. The QUANT 48VOLT is the prototype of a new
generation of electric vehicles. It is equipped with what is currently the
safest, most powerful, environmentally compatible and economical drive
system for electric vehicles that could be built in series production, and
provides a view of our future mobility.

http://emagazine.nanoflowcell.com/technology/300-kmh-in-the-worlds-first-electric-sports-car-with-48-v-low-voltage-flow-cell-drive/


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Re: [EVDL] HPGC AC-31-01 Diagram or Manual

[Matthew Quitter via EV]

Thanks for the feedback guys, really great info.

Hadn't thought about the torque smoothing qualities of a clutch, which is
also a great reason to have one!

Does anyone know which bolts I can undo to take a look inside the motor?
There are four big ones on the back that are currently going through a
mounting plate so I'm assuming they've been removed and reattached at some
point.

Then there are also 4 small hex head bolts on the front that seem to be
holding on a covering for the front bearing.

But i'm reluctant to unscrew anything without knowing what they do in case
something is released internally that I'm unaware of and I kill my motor...


07966 806 727


On 30 January 2017 at 03:10, Bill Dube via EV  wrote:

> The springs in the clutch center, and the torque-limiting nature of
> the clutch itself serve to limit peak torque in the transmission and
> driveline. The transmission and the driveline components need the clutch
> and its center springs to survive long-term.
>
> It is not the torque _from_ the motor that is the source of the torque
> peaks, it is bumps in the road, like rail road tracks, that inject damaging
> torque spikes _into_ the driveline and transmission. No clutch to slip a
> little bit, or clutch center springs to absorb these spikes, and the
> transmission life becomes very very short.
>
> Bill D.
>
>
> On 1/29/2017 7:28 PM, Tom Keenan via EV wrote:
>
>> I also have an older DC powered conversion with a clutch. I've found that
>> shifting with the clutch is much faster and much more forgiving.  I've
>> driven it 'clutchless' a couple of times as an exercise, but found it to be
>> very slow to shift with the foot off the clutch.  Matching motor speed with
>> selected gear normally results in time wasted between gears waiting for the
>> motor to wind down - traffic behind becomes very intolerant if you miss the
>> split second between go and no-go.
>> Tougher on hills because the vehicle may slow down to almost nothing
>> before the motor winds down enough to shift clutchless. Then you are back
>> to square one (first gear again).
>> However, since AC motors have a much wider RPM operating range, frequent
>> shifting isn't really necessary as with most DC motor conversions.
>> One conversion I've seen with an AC motor was a clutchless Geo Metro
>> (Solectria). The AC motor twisted off the transmission input shaft in that
>> particular vehicle twice, requiring a transmission replacement both times.
>> Might be a poorly matched transmission design, or it might be that the
>> clutch provides a bit of overtorque protection.
>> Based on what I've seen and operated for the last few years, I'd
>> recommend retaining the clutch.  If you have a clutch-type conversion of
>> any type available to test drive in your area, try to drive it both ways to
>> see what fits your driving style before you commit.
>>
>> Tom Keenan
>>
>> On Jan 29, 2017, at 4:59 PM, Jay Summet via EV  wrote:
>>>
>>> I have an S-10 conversion with the clutch left out, and you certainly
>>> can shift it without the clutch. But the shifts take several seconds as you
>>> wait for the motor to sync up in speed, and the time I spend coasting,
>>> unless planned well in advance to be going down a hill, etc, can cause cars
>>> to ride up on me.
>>>
>>> If I were do another conversion, I would probably leave the clutch in,
>>> despite the efficiency hit, just so that you can shift quickly. That way
>>> you could start in 1st and shift to 2nd quickly, instead of using extra
>>> amps to start up (slowly) in 2nd.
>>>
>>> I have a DC motor, so I find myself shifting between 2nd and 3rd gear
>>> around 40 MPH. Perhaps with an AC motor that has a larger RPM range you
>>> could get 0-50 which would be fine for all city driving, or even 0-60 MPH
>>> in one gear and shifting wouldn't be much of an issue.
>>>
>>> Jay
>>>
>>> On 01/29/2017 05:24 PM, Cruisin via EV wrote:
 It doesn't surprise me of the lack of support from HPEVS. maybe their
 door is
 locked
 Regarding the AC-31 which I have a lot of experience with, the motor
 already
 has a
 front bearing. The information you received from the seller of the
 motor is
 false. Do your
 conversion but leave out the flywheel and clutch assembly. If you want
 to
 shift, it can be done
 without a clutch as long as you are not using regeneration, else you
 will
 have to feather the
 accelerator during the shift. NO CLUTCH NEEDED.

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>>
>>
>>
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[EVDL] HPGC AC-31-01 Diagram or Manual

[Matthew Quitter via EV]

Hi Guys,

I am in the process of sticking an HPGC AC-31-01 Motor into a Morris Minor
and was wondering if anyone has any diagrams or manuals regarding this
motor?

I've searched online and emailed HPEV tech support but haven't had any
luck/reply.

I'm planning on keeping the Morris Minor gearbox and clutch and fabricating
a coupling to connect the AC-31 drive shaft to the old flywheel.

The guy I bought the AC-31 off (no docs from him either) said that the
pressure from the clutch mechanism onto the motor drive shaft can cause
problems with the bearing retaining clips inside the motor. Does anyone
have experience of this?

I was thinking of either opening up the motor and reinforcing the retaining
clips or adding a bearing to the faceplate to take the force from the
flywheel before the motor driveshaft.


Many thanks,
Matthew


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Re: [EVDL] Electrical Safety...

[Matthew Quitter via EV]

Thanks guys for all that great info. Lots of really good advice there.

Happy to report both battery packs have now been safely removed and I am
still alive!

And looking forward to further discussions on the EVDL.

Regards,
Matthew

07966 806 727


On 3 January 2017 at 19:56, Cor van de Water via EV 
wrote:

> Just in the past weeks I have been working on removing and installing
> batteries. The key is to have non-lethal voltage as long as you can as
> well as avoid short circuits.
> When I dig into a Nissan Leaf pack (which I am now re-creating in a
> different configuration in my EV truck's battery box) the first thing is
> to break the connection between the different sub-packs so each is lower
> voltage than the total (380V or 2x 190V as soon as you have pulled the
> Service Disconnect mid-pack.
> When re-assembling, I deliberately leave the straps/cables that
> interconnect the sub-packs off until the very last moment, so I am only
> dealing with sets that are about 72V each.
> Then there are typically the exposed wire ends. If I can remove the
> complete cable on both ends, I do the two ends while I am holding the
> cable so there is no point in insulating it. If I need to attach one end
> (because it is going into an inaccessible location) but can't attach the
> other end yet, then I will wrap it in electrical tape that I can remove
> when I am ready to attach the cable.
>
> When a sub-pack is still a very Lethal voltage, like the Nissan Leaf
> having one set that is 190V, I check to see if there is a way I can
> protect it (Leaf has 3 covers that go over the connections of this set,
> so you can still limit your exposure) or a way to break the circuit, for
> example removing the screws from a strap and pulling it up so it breaks
> the set in two separate electrical circuits.
>
> Also: never work with two or more on the pack. If one touches something
> on one side and the other person is working on the other side and they
> touch each other or both touch the same conducting object (metal battery
> box) then they get a nasty shock or worse. Even when working with your
> own two hands, keep them together so you don't straddle a high voltage.
> There is wisdom in the saying that when interacting with high voltage,
> keep one hand behind your back.
> Note that this advise is for when working with bare hands - I drop too
> many screws when I try gloves and I hate wearing them, so I always work
> with my bare hands - which requires me to work very careful. Also use a
> Voltmeter to verify that a battery is isolated and not leaking to ground
> (frame/enclosure) since that can still build up a nasty voltage.
> The only moment I do wear gardeners gloves is to protect my hands from
> sharp metal edges when carrying/handling heavy metal assemblies such as
> lifting the sub-packs.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Cor van de Water
> Chief Scientist
> Proxim Wireless
>
> office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water
> XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info
>
> http://www.proxim.com
>
> This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and
> proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you received
> this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any
> unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of
> this message is prohibited.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Lee Hart via EV
> Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2017 10:02 AM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electrical Safety...
>
> Thos True wrote:
> > Failing to insulated the exposed wires have been known to lead to some
> > nasty burns (on crew and vehicle), as well as damaged batteries and
> > battery boxes. Hope that this helps!
>
> That reminds me. Electrical cables have some nasty surprises that can
> cause serious mischief.
>
> Batteries can deliver enormous short-circuit currents. If a cable does
> flop around and short to something, the high current makes it into an
> electromagnet. It can JUMP and squirm like a snake, and in the process
> cause other shorts and mayhem.
>
> With a high short-circuit current, the insulation can melt off a wire in
>
> seconds. Now you have a BARE wire lying across your batteries. Or, if
> that wire is bundled into a harness, the heat can melt the insulation
> off the other wires, causing more short. Now Murphy really has some fun!
>
> And let's not even think about what happens if someone used cheap non
> UL-listed wire with combustible insulation.
>
> Also, once a high voltage DC arc starts, it is hard to stop. It can
> continue to arc across an amazing distance -- many inches when there's
> enough molten metal and debris feeding into the arc. Also, an arc can
> set melt or set just about anything on fire.
>
> So it pays to be extra careful!
>
> --
> "Hold my beer and watch this!" -- (script for a Youtube video for the
> Darwin aw

Re: [EVDL] Electrical Safety...

[Matthew Quitter via EV]

Thanks for your reply. Great that I can now interact with the list. Have 
enjoyed being a spectator for a while but wanted to get involved. 

I've been using a small styrofoam cup as quick insulation... didn't seem 
adequate.

So there's no product that anyone sells that's built for purpose? 

A rubber sleeve with some sort of oneway binding that allows the cable to be 
inserted easily but stops it falling off unless tugged. 

Have searched online but only found domestic small cabling solutions. 

> On 3 Jan 2017, at 16:56, Lee Hart  wrote:
> 
> Matthew Quitter via EV wrote:
>> I was wondering what people do to insulate the ends of live HV cables during 
>> installation and removal? Stop them accidentally touching something.
> 
> I slide on a piece of heat-shrink tubing (small wires) or a piece of rubber 
> hose (big wires or terminals).
> 
> -- 
> Teaching children to program goes against the grain of modern education.
> Just imagine the chaos if they learned to think logically, plan, create,
> implement, test, and execute!
> --
> Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
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Re: [EVDL] Electrical Safety...

[Matthew Quitter via EV]

Thanks Jim, think it worked this time!

Sent from my iPhone

> On 3 Jan 2017, at 15:57, Jim Walls via EV  wrote:
> 
> This list is set up so that replies go to the originator rather than back 
> to the list.  If you don't remember to manually add the list into the 
> address (or use "Reply all"), the list won't get the message.  My personal 
> opinion is that this is a dumb way to set up a list, but this is not my 
> list, so I don't make that decision.  None of mine are set up this way...
> 
> Jim
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: Matthew Quitter via EV   > Firstly, does anyone 
> get this? Tried replying to a couple of conversations
>> and it didn't work.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Matthew
> 
> 
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Re: [EVDL] Electrical Safety...

[Matthew Quitter via EV]

That's great, and I'm in the UK too!

I was wondering what people do to insulate the ends of live HV cables during 
installation and removal? Stop them accidentally touching something. 

I'm about to remove a battery pack from an EV conversion. 

Regards,
Matthew

> On 3 Jan 2017, at 15:42, Russ Sciville  wrote:
> 
> Yep (from the UK)
> 
> Russ
> 
> 
> From: Matthew Quitter via EV 
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List  
> Sent: Tuesday, 3 January 2017, 15:29
> Subject: [EVDL] Electrical Safety...
> 
> Firstly, does anyone get this? Tried replying to a couple of conversations
> and it didn't work.
> 
> Thanks,
> Matthew
> 
> 07966 806 727
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[EVDL] Electrical Safety...

[Matthew Quitter via EV]

Firstly, does anyone get this? Tried replying to a couple of conversations
and it didn't work.

Thanks,
Matthew

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Re: [EVDL] $52M/yr 'Quiet (Electrified) cars' alert-sound rules by 2019/09

[Matthew Quitter via EV]

Classical music or jazz would be nice!

Sent from my iPhone

> On 15 Nov 2016, at 15:00, Peri Hartman via EV  wrote:
> 
> While there are obvious virtues to have EVs emit sounds, and I will not 
> oppose the effort, what can we do to ensure the sounds are quiet enough and 
> pleasant?
> 
> I imagine with horror a city full of cars emitting 1khz square wave beeps, 
> like so many commercial trucks and construction equipment. I can barely 
> tolerate hearing those. Add to that and I will go crazy. I'm sure I'm not 
> alone.
> 
> Now, I don't expect the rulings to call for something that obnoxious. But 
> still, without some pushback, we may increase the amount of noise from our 
> current levels. That would be bad, in my opinion.
> 
> Peri
> 
> -- Original Message --
> From: "brucedp5 via EV" 
> To: ev@lists.evdl.org
> Cc:
> Sent: 15-Nov-16 4:27:39 AM
> Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: EV-newswire posts for 20161115
> 
> 
> The US government on Monday completed long-delayed rules that will require 
> "quiet cars" like electric vehicles and hybrids to emit alert sounds at 
> speeds of up to 18.6 miles per hour (30 km/h) to help prevent injuries among 
> pedestrians, cyclists and the blind.
> 
> The rules, which were required by Congress, will require car makers like 
> Tesla, Nissan and Toyota to add alert sounds to all vehicles by September 
> 2019.
>> 
>> 
>> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Acentra-trim-based-Leaf-Black-Edition-gt-Limited-eu-availability-Mar-Aug-2017-td4684475.html
>> EVLN: Acentra trim based Leaf Black Edition> Limited.eu availability Mar-Aug
>> 2017
>> Nissan Leaf Black Edition promises sleeker all-electric motoring
>> ... stylish, premium design ... 1st 1000 receive a free in-vehicle wi-fi
>> hotspot ...  has its work cut out competing with cheaper mainstream cars ...
>> 
>> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-21-5k-Leaf-Taxi-ie-gt-Floating-on-a-marshmallow-while-saving-the-planet-td4684474.html
>> EVLN: €21.5k Leaf Taxi.ie> Floating on a marshmallow while ‘saving the
>> planet’
>> Taxi driver happy to be 'saving planet' with his electric car
>> Dublin taxi driver, Peter Hanley became one of the first taxi drivers in
>> Ireland to work in an electric car when he bought his new Nissan Leaf just
>> over a year ago ...
>> 
>> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-ALA-sez-Drive-Electric-and-protect-everyone-s-lung-health-td4684469.html
>> EVLN: ALA sez Drive Electric and protect everyone's lung health
>> What’s the best way to keep your lungs healthy? Drive an electric car
>> You don’t hear much about keeping your lungs …
>> 
>> +
>> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Tesla-s-gallery-in-Aspen-part-of-big-push-in-ski-country-of-the-West-td4684468.html
>> Tesla’s ‘gallery’ in Aspen part of big push in ski country of the West
>> Tesla beats electric path to ski towns
>> Sales of electric vehicles in the United States flattened in 2015 after a
>> couple of double-digit growth years. Some wondered if low gas prices had
>> dented the ...
>> 
>> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/52M-yr-Quiet-Electrified-cars-alert-sound-rules-by-2019-09-td4684467.html
>> $52M/yr 'Quiet (Electrified) cars' alert-sound rules by 2019/09
>> 'Quiet cars' rules to prevent injuries will cost makers $52 million a year
>> The US government on Monday completed long-delayed rules that will require
>> "quiet cars" ... emit alert sounds ... in reverse or forward at speeds up to
>> about 19 mph ...
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> http://evdl.org/evln/
>> For all EVLN EV-newswire posts
>> 
>> 
>> {brucedp.0catch.com}
>> 
>> --
>> View this message in context: 
>> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-EV-newswire-posts-for-20161115-tp4684476.html
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>> Nabble.com.
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>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>> 
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Re: [EVDL] Alternatives for Golf Cart and Forklift batteries

[Matthew Quitter via EV]

Hi Guys,

I'm new to the EVDL and loving the depth of conversations everyone has,
wonderfully educational for a beginner like me.

I'm hopefully just about to start my first conversion... was going to use
Li-Ion batteries but have been reading this and wondering what all the fuss
is about NiCd.

Could someone explain what are the differences/benefits of NiCd vs Li-Ion
for an EV? I saw someone mention "Very long life, don't mind sitting dead
when not needed, and good for very high currents." for NiCd. But looking at
eBay they seem more expensive and worse W/kg than Li-Ion?

All the comparisons I've found are in relation to function in power tools.

Apologies if this isn't the way you post to the EVDL.

Many thanks,
Matthew

07966 806 727


On 3 September 2016 at 20:06, Cor van de Water via EV 
wrote:

> John,
> One of the US Electricar owners just pulled his BB-600 out of his truck
> since several had died and excess electrolyte was eating the alu box.
> He has appropriately replaced them with a Leaf pack. I will shoot him an
> email with your question to see if he wants to sell/ship to you,
> unfortunately he is at the East Coast.
>
> Regarding the weight - if they are not leaking, you could leave the
> original Lead in place and just mount one single end plate of the
> Lithium stack to the frame of the lift, you are aware that the Leaf
> cells (and probably other Li cells as well) must remain under
> compression or risk bursting the cell pouches open, inside the modules?
>
> You cannot tap high current from the center contact of a Leaf module,
> only the two end contacts are rated for the 200A continuous current, the
> center connection is rated for 10A if I am not mistaken.
> That is why I would cut open the terminal end to remove the plastic
> covers of the internal bus bars, cut the one going from the first pair
> to the second pair and then rewire to have all 4 in parallel. The guy
> from the Electric Samba (VW van) has YouTube videos about how to open
> the modules and shows how they are interconnected. I think he wanted to
> lighten the pack by removing the shell of the module, but that work was
> for naught as the sheet metal shell weighs almost nothing and you need
> to mount and compress the pouch cells inside anyhow. But the videos are
> instructive in how to remove the black plastic cover strips to get at
> the bus bars (which are the copper strips that are visible at the two
> end terminals).
> Here is a direct link to his videos, you see him get at the terminals in
> this part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeTxXkBAc60
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Cor van de Water
> Chief Scientist
> Proxim Wireless
>
> office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water
> XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info
>
> http://www.proxim.com
>
> This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and
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> this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any
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>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of John Lussmyer
> via EV
> Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2016 9:05 AM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Alternatives for Golf Cart and Forklift batteries
>
> On Sat Sep 03 08:54:20 PDT 2016 leeah...@earthlink.net said:
> >John Lussmyer via EV wrote:
> >> I have a couple of old electric forklifts that I use occaisionally in
> my shop.
> >> One is a little walk behind unit that uses 2, 6V golf cart batteres.
> >> The other is a full size forklift that has a 36V, 750AH battery.
> >>
> >> I need to replace these batteries. I don't like Lead-acid batteries
> for these machines, as they often sit unused
> >> for months.
> >
> >I would think that lithiums would be an expensive option; far more than
> >lead-acids. I'd also be concerned about the cost of lithium cells with
> a
> >high enough peak current capability. These lifts usually draw hundreds
> >of amps.
>
> The cheapest 36V forklift battery I've found is a refurb, 1yr warranty,
> 510AH for $2000.
> That is FAR more battery than I really need.  (as I said, using the lift
> for 1/2 hour or less, now and then, frequently more than a month between
> uses.)
>
> I'm tempted to try 5 Leaf modules in series for 40V, that's only about
> $500 if I buy them individually.
> (though I am tempted to watch for a wrecked Leaf instead.)
>
> As for the 12V unit, a pair of Golf Cart batteries seems to be in the
> $200-$300 range.
> In which case, 3 Leaf Modules is about the same price. (Yeah, splitting
> the one into separate halves would be a pain.  Frankly, might be easier
> to just "ignore" the 1/2 module and use 1 + one half (or 2 + 2 halves)
> Leaf Modules)
>
> >Another thought... didn't you have a set of aircraft nicads? They
> should
> >be idea for this kind of app