[EVDL] What's your sign?

[fred via EV]

Okay, let's get our minds out of the 60s and 70s and into today's century and 
the world of the EV.

I am hoping to attend the Orlando Maker Faire in September 2014 at the Orlando 
Science Center. Conveniently there is a parking structure across the street 
with either 2 or 3 EVSE stations on the ChargePoint network, of which I am a 
card-carrying member in good standing. I've been in communications with the two 
organizations and have been allowed to use the parking garage, even though it 
is off-limits to exhibitors. Apparently EV drivers qualify for one of these.

>From the photos I've been provided by the contact person and other 
>information, the spots are in a convenient location to be ICE'd in short 
>order. I plan to arrive near dawn on the Saturday of the event but that's no 
>assurance of an open EVSE, of course. The organizer has asked if I think a 
>traffic cone placed in the spot would be a good idea. She believes that an ICE 
>driver would be disinclined to move it, while an EV driver would do so. I 
>suggested that an EV driver would also believe that the space is unavailable 
>for an undisclosed reason.

I further suggested that the cone could have a sign atop reading "EV parking 
only" and an EV driver would then move the cone to park.

That's as far as the thought processes in my alleged mind were able to travel 
on this subject. I now request from the massive wisdom of the EVDL your 
suggestions for affordable, easily implemented options to prevent ICEing of an 
EV space, where parking space is a premium in general. The easily implemented 
part is important, I believe, in the short run, in order to make it happen that 
much more quickly, but it's also possible that the Orlando Science Center would 
want to be aware of a more permanent, perhaps-less-easily implemented option as 
well. From our frame of reference, EV parking isn't an issue that should go 
away and it should be easier to manage over the long run. I have until 
September to solve my problem that may not be a problem, while the OSC has from 
today onward to approach a solution.

The people with whom I have been in contact have been quite supportive and it's 
a good feeling to be on the receiving end of such assistance.

fred
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Re: [EVDL] Building a true road going solar EV.

[fred via EV]

I'm not qualified to comment on the power requirements of a particular system, 
nor the power sources previously discussed, but I would like to make a 
suggestion to the builder of this vehicle.

Research in-wheel motors (hub motors) before you commit to that design. Look 
specifically for references to handling and braking. You'll find key words such 
as un-suspended weight frequently used in this region of expertise.

Also consider that a typical hub motor of the kind used for bicycles has a very 
narrow range of efficiency and a similarly narrow range for power. Range of rpm 
is the relevant point here. Bicycle hub motors throw away energy as heat when 
traveling slower than optimum and can get away with it, in part, because the 
human bean is providing compensatory energy via the pedals.

I suggest also to research the Stokemonkey e-assist power system or one of its 
clones. The Stokemonkey is a slightly modified hub motor which drives the left 
side of a crankset, allowing the cyclist to select the appropriate gear in the 
normal bicycle power train, matching the cyclist's cadence preference to 
conditions. If the system is correctly installed, the cyclist's cadence is 
closely matched to the motor's narrow range.

If efficiency is your goal and it appears that is the case, you may benefit 
from using a similar design in your EV, including some form of transmission. My 
first velomobile was equipped with a Stokemonkey. With pedal assistance, I was 
able to enjoy two watt-hour per mile consumption. Flipped around, that's 500 
miles per kwh. Without my pedal assistance the energy use skyrocketed to nearly 
ten watt-hours, or only 100 miles per kwh. I suspect there are few EVs on the 
road, other than the hyper-efficient solar models that can get close to those 
figures.

There is a similar design to the Stokemonkey, a one-off for the personal use of 
the builder that weighs under five pounds with batteries, with a 100 watt 
motor. He built it solely for the purpose of assisting hill climbs. At that 
weight and that level of power, it's perfect for his requirements.

Your vehicle could do well enough, I believe with a pair of 1 kw hub motors 
driving a common transmission with suitable gearing. My current velomobile has 
a Rohloff 14-speed hub transmission, but it is not covered under warranty for 
electric assist. I doubt that it would tolerate the forces of two 1 kw motors. 
The big advantage of the Rohloff is the linear progression of the gearing, a 
426% range with 12% steps for each click of the shifter.

You would not have the space constraints in your EV that exist in a bicycle 
wheel and might find a more effective transmission design, but I doubt that hub 
motors are going to be a suitably efficient answer.
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[EVDL] driving attitude

[fred via EV]

An all-encompassing subject, I'm referring to "other" drivers as well as EV 
drivers. A recent post by the EVangel brought this to my alleged mind. There's 
a pervasive attitude that driving in a reasonable manner causes irritation from 
all the other road users. Take this perspective, regardless of your source of 
energy, liquid or gaseous fuel or raw electrons. Consider also city buses, 
trash pickup, postal and other delivery vehicles when you make this 
consideration:
You are traveling along a roadway, any roadway. Interstate, major surface road, 
backwoods trail. Because you are an attentive driver, as ALL other road users 
are, you noted that you are closing on a slower moving vehicle ahead. 

What do you do?
According to far too many media reports, you immediately go into rant mode and 
become severely irritated that such vehicles and drivers are permitted on the 
road. In some cases, there would be shouting, profanities, perhaps horn 
sounding.
What do YOU do?
I check my surroundings, ahead and behind, possibly and very likely to the 
sides as well. If traffic permits (multi-lane roadway, for example,) I prepare 
for a lane change and overtake the other vehicle. If traffic does not permit, I 
may have to prepare for a lane change and overtake the other vehicle after 
waiting a moment or two. In some cases, I will slow or stop. School bus with 
lights on, trash pickup, city bus taking up the entire lane, that I missed far 
enough back to change lanes early. It happens.
Which driver perspective do you fit? 

If you're driving a middling-performance EV or don't care to abuse your pack, 
you may accelerate gradually (as I do) and your top speed may not reach the 
posted limit, because you can see that the light two blocks ahead is red or 
worse yet, just changed to yellow. Why punch it, only to have to hit the 
brakes, as did the driver who safely passed you to beat you gently to the 
traffic light?
My Gizmo EV is a 52 mph top speed, tiny three-wheeled grocery-getter. I can 
pull 450 amps with the controller and 540 amps with the 3C pack I carry. Why 
should I? I drive 35-40 on surface streets. My 2002 Rav4EV can do 78 mph, but I 
won't get my usual 80-90 mile range from it at those speeds. I drive 35-40 on 
surface streets. My no-longer-used velomobile managed 20 mph on good days and 
that was it.
My experience with other road users is they are not ranting and screaming and 
sounding horns. The other road users will pass when safe and almost always pass 
when on a multi-lane roadway. Exceptions such as today's cell-phone using 
driver coasting along six inches behind me at 30 mph on a four lane road are 
just that, exceptional. Yeah, right, and more common than not.
The media has it wrong and has brain-washed too many people. It does the EV 
world no good to consider that a 40 mph EV won't do the job because it won't 
break the speed limit on an interstate highway. I don't take the Gizmo EV on 
the interstate, but I do drive the Rav4EV on one, at 5-10 mph below the posted 
speed limit. You know what happens? People go around me. Funny thing, I go 
around those drivers ahead of me traveling slower, too.
My posting isn't going to change the media's ignorance, but maybe it will 
change some EV driver's understanding. /rant off
fred
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[EVDL] recharging/testing a LiFePO4 hi capacity cell

[fred via EV]

All this talk of self-discharge and related issues has brought to mind my 
"spare" 180 ah cells, sitting idle in a "storage" capacity. I'd like to test 
these cells for capacity after all these (uncertain) years. I have a rather 
powerful radio-control-related charger, but the computer within tops out at a 
100A battery capacity and as such, times out the charge sequence before 
reaching a proper level. The same thing happens with the discharge aspect.
I would like to not spend a lot of money but do not have a good idea of the 
best way to top off my individual cells in the proper manner and then a 
suitable method to discharge to test them. Even a moderately low discharge rate 
of C/4 at 45 amps would give some indication of relative capacity and balance 
across the five batteries.
I have a bench top power supply but it does not have anything near the level of 
current capacity considered useful for a 180ah cell. 

All ideas are welcome and appreciated.
thanksfred

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Re: [EVDL] recharging/testing a LiFePO4 hi capacity cell

[fred via EV]

I've forgotten so much from my original EV research and other related 
activities, that I had not considered the simplicity of a stand-alone meter in 
the circuit. The link provided presented a programmable meter for a pretty 
reasonable price. Correct me if I'm wrong in this supposition: programmable so 
it will interrupt the circuit when certain parameters are met? I downloaded and 
attempted to read the manual for the meter and was overwhelmed with the 
complexity of the device.
I have a much simpler device in my velomobile that monitors my 12v battery 
"consumption" for the lights and accessories. It begins to register all the 
important parameters when connected and forgets them when disconnected. I've 
found a number of devices of similar construction with higher capacities than I 
need, so I won't burn it out, but it's not programmable. It also has a built-in 
shunt, so the external device would not be needed. (thanks M.R.)

Part of my original unclear message was aimed at how would I be able to charge 
these cells, but I can see now that a meter external to the r/c charger will 
provide the data while the r/c charger will give me the current and monitoring 
that I need. It's not like the charger bases the duration on amp-hours "pumped" 
back into the battery, so sequencing it two or three times won't cause an 
overcharge if left unattended at just the wrong moment, while the external 
meter can give me the total at the end.
I'm not one to shy away from high tech stuff like the programmable meter, but 
it seems unwarranted in this case, as I already have sufficient complexity in 
the r/c charger. Whatcha think?




Original Message: 7
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2015 14:41:55 + (UTC)
From: jerry freedomev via EV 
Subject: Re: [EVDL] recharging/testing a LiFePO4 hi capacity cell

Hi Fred and All,
Rig one up with a Lightobject wthr? meter.? I'm going to use one to control my 
Volt module's charging, monitoring, etc.?
They have a wide selection online at very reasonable costs.
Jerry Dycus

   
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[EVDL] It's all uphill, was: World's largest electric vehicle

[fred via EV]

I'm surprised that no one has brought up, literally and figuratively, the 
energy involved in making that big truck work "better" going downhill.
Doesn't the description of the activity imply that elsewhere (top of the 
mountain) is a loader or loaders filling the vehicle up with potential energy? 
There would be payloaders, belt systems, some form of huge dispenser of mass 
creating or moving the material that has to be moved to the bottom. 

As with water generated power, there has to be a source. In this case, the 
source is overlooked, but that's okay.
Also, there's no reference to inherent efficiency losses. That aspect is all 
too often ignored, especially from people who tell me I should build a 
generator into my spare tire and run it while I drive, to recharge my battery 
pack!
I'm sure everyone here recognizes that there is still a net loss and in the 
case of the loading equipment, I'll venture to guess that it's a severe net 
loss.
fred

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Re: [EVDL] It's all uphill, was: World's largest electric vehicle

[fred via EV]

I see. I obviously missed that point, not having seen any reference to burning 
brakes, although I use regen all the time to save my own.
 

On Saturday, March 19, 2016 3:30 PM, Robert Bruninga  
wrote:
 

 Of course there is a net loss!

But the point is, it is -far- less than the loss of a huge diesel running at 
idle on the way down and burning up all the potential energy in heat in the 
brakes on the way down.  Bob

On Sat, Mar 19, 2016 at 3:24 PM, fred via EV  wrote:

I'm surprised that no one has brought up, literally and figuratively, the 
energy involved in making that big truck work "better" going downhill.
Doesn't the description of the activity imply that elsewhere (top of the 
mountain) is a loader or loaders filling the vehicle up with potential energy? 
There would be payloaders, belt systems, some form of huge dispenser of mass 
creating or moving the material that has to be moved to the bottom.

As with water generated power, there has to be a source. In this case, the 
source is overlooked, but that's okay.
Also, there's no reference to inherent efficiency losses. That aspect is all 
too often ignored, especially from people who tell me I should build a 
generator into my spare tire and run it while I drive, to recharge my battery 
pack!
I'm sure everyone here recognizes that there is still a net loss and in the 
case of the loading equipment, I'll venture to guess that it's a severe net 
loss.
fred

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[EVDL] gliders still valuable?

[fred via EV]

I don't see too much group chatter about conversions, but I'm sure there's 
still that sort of thing going on. If someone in Florida needs a 2002 Honda 
glider, there's a free one offered on Craigslist for this area:
Free red honda it is broke have title (Deltona)
It says Daytona Beach, but it's about 30 miles southwest of Daytona, running 
down I-4.
I'm not the offerer, so if you have an interest in the vehicle as a glider, be 
sure to contact the original posting party.
fred

|   |
|   |   |   |   |   |
| Free red honda it is broke have title (Deltona)Hello my name is bob this 
honda is a 2002 decent body but blown motor was going to get motor from junk 
yard but the city gave my mom a ticket for it being in front yard so it has to 
go quick she is... |
|  |
| View on daytona.craigslist.org | Preview by Yahoo |
|  |
|   |


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[EVDL] retraction of glider post

[fred via EV]

Less than an hour after I posted to the list, there was another craigslist post 
stating that the 2002 Honda freebie was a hoax. 
It's probably not a good idea after all to call the number listed in the ad.
fred

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[EVDL] Would you buy a used EVSE from this clown?

[fred via EV]

Disclaimer: I have no formal training as a clown, but I do have a red foam nose 
gadget.
We've been enjoying for many months an eMotorwerks EVSE with a 40 ampere rating 
(10KW). It's an unremarkable looking silver box, bolted to the side of our 
garage, connected to a 50 ampere circuit with the standard NEMA 14-50P 
(https://www.stayonline.com/product-resources/nema-straight-blade-reference-chart.asp).
We purchased it in December 2016 and it's been running just great. It has just 
finished charging one of our Rav4EVs only minutes ago. The 40A output means 
that the computer in the car is pessimistic about the duration of the charge, 
by as much as two hours. If your EV can accept this higher rate, why settle for 
less?

Why would I want to sell it, you might ask. You might not, but I'll tell you 
anyway. When we purchased the EVSE, I had decided that I didn't need to know 
all the fun data that is now available to those buyers who selected the 
internet-connected versions and went for the bottom dollar high-output version 
instead.
As time has passed, as it is wont to do, I've discovered that I really do want 
to know all that fun data after all. I don't have need for two, as I live and 
breathe (and charge) in only this one location.
We paid the retail price of US$500, which is almost as much as the 
net-connected version. Would you be willing to own this silver box for a 
fraction of the price, say US$300 (plus appropriate shipping charges via USPS) 
and have that wonderful high-speed charging at your fingertips?
If you would, please send money, but let's start with an email. If you like, I 
can send an unremarkable photo of the current installation of the unremarkable 
silver box. The J1772 handle is in excellent condition and the long charging 
cable is undamaged. What I would like to happen is that I get a commitment of 
purchase, at which time I'll order the net-connected version. When it arrives, 
I'll notify the buyer and prepare to ship out the current one. We have the toy 
EVSE that comes with the vehicle for 110V charging, but 30-40 hour charge times 
is really impractical, don't you think?
I'm aware that for sale postings are permitted for a one-time, private 
offering, not for commercial gain. If this is incorrect, I'll destroy the red 
foam nose.
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Re: [EVDL] EV Digest, Vol 77, Issue 32

[fred via EV]

 I had had a conversation with the folks at eMotorwerks a while ago, aimed at 
getting the once-available Juice Plug device. It was an intermediate gadget 
that one connected to the J1772 port and had the mating port at the other end. 
This would have "retrofitted" the EVSE, any EVSE to wifi capability, but was 
told that it was discontinued. Shucks. Nothing was said to me about 
retrofitting the existing box and there's no indication on the site for that 
feature, which I would have snapped up in a blink.

  Original Message  3. Re: Would you buy a used EVSE from this clown? (Chris 
Tromley)From: Chris Tromley 

Are you sure the Pro version upgrade can't be retrofitted to your box?  I
thought it could.

Chris
End of Original Message 3
  
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[EVDL] A craigslist EV Geo Prism local!

[fred via EV]

I subscribe to the Barn Finds newsletter and almost ignored the Geo Prism 
listed for US$750.00. Something that low priced isn't necessarily worth filling 
the tank, except in this case, the tank is electric!
I clicked on the craigslist link and discovered it's located about 30 minutes 
from me. Very little information in the post, other than that it's a US 
Electricar construction. Not running condition and the seller is motivated to 
get rid of it as he is leaving town or something like that. 

EV Geo Prism only 4,843 miles project! $750!
  
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   |

  |
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||  
EV Geo Prism only 4,843 miles project! $750!
 Very rare car all electric with only 4,843 miles. Moving out of state and 
can't afford to bring with. Paid a...  |   |

  |

  |

 
Granted, it's not in the best of shape, but I'd expect there's some promise to 
it. With five EVs in the driveway now, there isn't a chance I can manage to fit 
another one.

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[EVDL] Electric cars and the comic strip

[fred via EV]

I hope the link goes through okay, as I doubt any image inline would work. You 
know the EV world is making headway when you get incorporated into comic strip 
humor. What's next, stand-up comedy material?
Rubes by Leigh Rubin for Mar 10, 2017 | GoComics.com
  
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   |

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Rubes by Leigh Rubin for Mar 10, 2017 | GoComics.com
 Mar 10, 2017  |   |

  |

  |

 

fred

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[EVDL] Pumping the amperes?

[fred via EV]

I've searched the world (wide web) over, but haven't been able to pin down the 
correct specifics to accomplish my goal. I'm hoping someone here has that 
valuable commodity known as experience and can better advise and/or direct me.
I have 180AH LiFePO4 cells that I want to test over an extended period of time. 
I have an R/C class charger unit, almost perfect for my requirements, but it 
tops out at 100AH on the charge sequence. It also "bottoms out" at the same 
value on the discharge sequence. It's exactly what I need, a device to cycle 
the batteries, measuring the energy in both directions, but for the 100AH limit.
Does anyone have suggestions regarding a more suitable device? Even in the R/C 
world, the limits are so low, but also not something easily found in searches.
Suggestions for search terms would be useful too!
thanksfred
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Re: [EVDL] Pumping the amperes?

[fred via EV]

Boy, Howdy! That's a powerhouse! It certainly appears to have the capacity as 
well as all the features I'll need and then some. I've put a query to the USA 
operator to determine the best cabling combination, especially if it saves me a 
few american dollars overall. It looks like it would do just as good a job on 
my lead-acid dust collectors, although I just realized that my other R/C 
charger does have sufficient capacity to handle those.
Thanks for the great lead.


On Wednesday, July 26, 2017, 10:58:10 AM EDT, ROBERT  wrote:


This battery tester may do the job. 


http://www.revolectrix.com/pl8_specs_tab.htm

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[EVDL] pumping the amperes, replies

[fred via EV]

Cor van de Water, I'm not so good at keeping track of hacks I've done in the 
past. I'd been aiming at a nearly "turn it on and walk away" sort of solution. 
It seems that the Revolectrix answer is a good one for that objective.

There's only two EVs remaining in our fleet that are suited for on-board 
monitoring that's not part of the computer system. One is a ride-on lawn mower 
and the other is my Gizmo. Both have a CycleAnalyst, a splendid device for 
keeping track of consumption of those critical ampere-hours. I'm pretty sure I 
have a high-current shunt in the Gizmo, as the controller is rated to 400 amps 
and I usually run in the hundred range, maxing out near 200 on occasion. The 
pack is rated 3C and I'll never call for 540 amperes!

David Roden, as noted in a later message, I desired to locate a full-featured 
device, and of course, a price to match! I also have had horrible luck with 
small digital ammeters sourced from China. Most recently, tested with a 
calibrated power supply, the 0 - 50 ma digital meter was approximately 20% off, 
especially at the low end where I needed the best information. For some things, 
analog is the best. This time, not so much though.

Matt Lacey, it's great to hear from another user of something I am likely to 
purchase, especially as you present yourself as a satisfied user. One of the 
earlier devices I had for my early fleet of EVs was somewhat unstable and it 
was said that if one connected a laptop, one could be assured of cooking at the 
very least a USB port, and at worst, the entire mainboard. I did not laptop 
that device, to be sure.

I suppose I'm being "internet impatient" as I've not heard back from the 
Revolectrix people. After all, I emailed them just this morning!

fred
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[EVDL] Volts or Leafs or ?

[fred via EV]

I managed to squeeze four and a half years from the original VRSLA battery 
pack. I tend to the conservative side when using such technology and having a 
CycleAnalyst installed allowed me to keep a sharp eye on our Ariens Amp 
electric riding mower. The replacement pack, same stuff, purchased online has 
now crapped out on me after only two years.
I've been reading on this list of folks using Leaf modules and did a search on 
eBay for the same. I need 48v and desire about 40 ah capacity to replace the 75 
ah capacity of the pb pack. I know from experience that a lead pack is only 
good for half the rating (c/20) in the real world and with the Peukert effect 
in mind, 40 ah should equal or excel the original pack capacity.
I was surprised to see that Volt modules are 48v and have a healthy 47 ah 
capacity. The price of a used Volt module @US$325 comes in a good bit lower 
than the US$600+ figure of the lead pack. I'd have to purchase a 6a charger for 
a hundred dollars but that's still a better deal than sticking with lead.
The links are:2011 Chevy Volt Battery 2kWh 48V Li-ion pack | eBayVeriBest 48V 
6A Lithium Battery Charger
The VeriBest references specifying Manganese chemistry, as the default is for 
LiFePO4.
Even if the Volt battery won't fit under the seat where the old lead pack rode, 
I can still bolt it on the motor deck like Mr. Fusion from Back to the Future 
if I have to. On the other hand, does anyone know if the Volt module can be 
segmented and connected with jumpers?
I would very much appreciate anyone's observations regarding this conversion.
fred


| 
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| $99.99 |  |

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VeriBest 48V 6A Lithium Battery Charger

Veribest Lithium Battery Chargers have been tested against the industry's best 
by an independent lab and judged ...
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| $275.00 |  |

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2011 Chevy Volt Battery 2kWh 48V Li-ion pack | eBay

12 cells in series. Number of cells 36. Construction 12 in-series x 3 in 
parallel. CELL SPECIFICATIONS. Cell typ...
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Re: [EVDL] Volts or Leaf or ?

[fred via EV]

Original message:Hi Fred and All,    Volt are excellent modules but taking them 
apart is not wise as needs cooling flow and compression plus end plates, hard 
to seal back together, cell damage if not compressed on charging.So smallest 
module you get is 4kwh, 2 48vdc sections  at 100lbs is how I'm doing my E trike 
pickup I recently converted from lead.Though I sell these on the EV Trading 
Post at $150/kwh complete modules only, likely the Leaf modules will be better 
at less than half the weight for the amount you need..Unless 100lbs is good 
then Volt's are lower cost, better power, longer lasting.Most want $200/kwh on 
ebay for Leaf modules though haven't checked in a few months as I can get Volt 
packs locally for less. Jerry DycusEnd of Original message.
I've been extending my research and discovered that the Volt modules at a 
purported 48v are really 45.6 nominal. My mower's low voltage cut-out kills the 
blades at about 40-42, rather close to the Volt's nominal level. At least I 
have juice to roll back to the barn, so to speak, but I'd prefer something 
farther away from lvc for the module's nominal level, unless someone has a 
suggestion to work around this (add a segment or two?)
Am I incorrect in expecting that operating voltage will drop to nominal? One of 
my electric transportation devices is a 36 volt nominal, but it only drops 
below that level under heavy load. The mower pulls only 20-30 amperes, hardly a 
heavy load for a 350 amp capable Volt module, yes?
Same concept on the cooling side, it's not likely to get particularly warm at 
1/10 design current. The charger I linked on Amazon is a 6 amp charger. Even if 
it takes overnight to charge, that's not going to warm up the module to the 
point of needing cooling, is it?
The ones I've seen on eBay show as 2kw, 47 ah ratings and about 45 pounds, 
which is not a factor. The current pack of VRSLA batteries are about 150 
pounds. Can a 4kw module be easily halved to get to the 2kw level if the 
voltages would work out for my purposes?



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Re: [EVDL] Volts or Leaf or ?

[fred via EV]

My original message:
'I've been extending my research and discovered that the Volt modules at a 
purported 48v are really 45.6 nominal. My mower's low voltage cut-out kills the 
blades at about 40-42, rather close to the Volt's nominal level. At least I 
have juice to roll back to the barn, so to speak, but I'd prefer something 
farther away from lvc for the module's nominal level, unless someone has a 
suggestion to work around this (add a segment or two?)
Am I incorrect in expecting that operating voltage will drop to nominal? One of 
my electric transportation devices is a 36 volt nominal, but it only drops 
below that level under heavy load. The mower pulls only 20-30 amperes, hardly a 
heavy load for a 350 amp capable Volt module, yes?
Same concept on the cooling side, it's not likely to get particularly warm at 
1/10 design current. The charger I linked on Amazon is a 6 amp charger. Even if 
it takes overnight to charge, that's not going to warm up the module to the 
point of needing cooling, is it?
The ones I've seen on eBay show as 2kw, 47 ah ratings and about 45 pounds, 
which is not a factor. The current pack of VRSLA batteries are about 150 
pounds. Can a 4kw module be easily halved to get to the 2kw level if the 
voltages would work out for my purposes?'

Jerry's reply:

Fred, Volt modules  charge to 49.2vdc fully charged and driving my EV trike 
pickup at about 60 amps it drops about 2 volts and very stiff after that.At 
40vdc it is near/at 100% discharge so it won't have much problem and if stops, 
just come back in at low power after it recovers if not far.They act more like 
NiCad B660s than lead.And the volt modules in series put out 1k amps tested if 
asked or 2k amps with 2 48vdc ones in parallel for the smallest module at 
4kwh.For a charger use a power supply that can be adjusts to 49.2vdc exactly. 
I'm looking for a 1-4kw one as my main charger if I can find one cheap.Though 
might just go with a bulk charger and finish with a small PS one.Or use the 
JDL404 wthr meter to turn them off with relays, contactors.Again splitting them 
is not smart as can damage them as can not having them compressed makes them 
swell and lose capacity. Now if you get both end plates, hose connections and 
hopefully get it back together compressed without leaks, etc, it could work but 
I wouldn't. I'll at least fill it with coolant as th cells at really buried in 
the plastic case.  Though I'm running the trike without cooling but being very 
gentle with it. As I find out how much more I need for 100 mile range then i'll 
plumb the whole thing up.I wouldn't pay more for split ones when you can get 
whole ones for less at $150/kwh.  If you can take 100lb of  2 48vdc sections, 
the Volt is good. The size of 2  12v lead batteries.If you can't, use the Leaf 
modules.Jerry
More questions from fred:
It seems like the Volt modules will have sufficient voltage to keep the mower 
happy. My experience with my Gizmo EV trike and LiFePO4 matches your 
description regarding "stiffness" as I had hoped. I don't have experience with 
NiCad, so that one goes over my head.
Current capability at a thousand amps is way out there. The maximum current 
draw I've ever seen on my mower is in the low to mid thirties, barely a trickle 
in comparison. Even the Gizmo will pull about 250 amps if I'm heavy on the 
throttle trigger, well under your referenced figures.
I'd like to avoid paying $600 for a pack when I need only half that though. 
It's funny to think that I could charge once a season with such a monster 
(relatively speaking) sized pack on the back end of the mower.
You've mentioned Leaf modules a few times, but the prices I've seen for those 
on eBay seem astronomical compared to the Volt. Am I reading the specifications 
incorrectly? They are listing at 7.6v, I'd need 6 modules and the totals are 
approaching a thousand dollars with shipping. The amp-hour capacities are also 
far more than I really need. A pack that gives me 40 ah in lithium would be 
fairly close to the 75 ah lead pack that once worked fine at my preferred 50% 
DoD with energy to spare. The Volt packs wouldn't even be pulled down to 30% 
DoD in normal use. 
I also can keep an eye on discharge with the CycleAnalyst (watt-hour/amp-hour 
meter) installed on the mower.
As you've referenced your prices and I've looked up your listing on EV Tradin 
Post, I had hoped to buy from you, especially as I can save on shipping by 
arranging a pickup, but twice as many modules would be a waste of money. I 
don't think I have to worry about compression too much with a 30 amp draw, nor 
about overheating from such a low current flow. I suppose I'll find a cheap 
eBay auction and take the plunge. 
 
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[EVDL] volt versus leaf revisited, paging Jerry Dycus?

[fred via EV]

I found a previous discussion I started regarding Volt versus Leaf batteries. 
Jerry Dycus offered up some useful information, although I'm still undecided 
which pack to use in the Ariens Amp electric riding mower.
I've not been able to find a contact via email for Jerry, although I suspect 
I've seen it somewhere. Grey matter failure to blame here.
I'd like to re-open the discussion of the decision making for one pack over the 
other and to purchase one from Jerry, if they are still available.
How does one contact Mr. Dycus via email? It seems appropriate to take my 
discussion off-list.

If anyone has other comments regarding selecting one type over the other, 
please chime in.
thanksfred
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[EVDL] leaf versus volt battery modules continued

[fred via EV]

Thanks for the responses. I now have an email contact, but am posting this 
portion here as I believe it has value as general knowledge. Jerry, if you can 
offer prices for either module, please pop an email to me. I will be able to 
arrange pickup by a friend who lives in Orlando and works in Naples, passing 
minutes away from your location.
Using eBay as a reference, I've found a low-cost Leaf module, $75 for 43 ah at 
7.6v. I need a minimum of 48 volts, which would be 7 modules, bringing the 
total including shipping to $665.
Volt modules are listing $245 for 45 ah but at only 45v nominal. I can't expect 
that it's an easy matter to add a single cell or cell bundle to get closer to 
48v or slightly higher. I probably can use the 45v because the chemistry 
suffers little from Peukert effect and the low voltage cut-out is somewhere 
around 42v, I believe. With shipping, the total is $270, less than half the 
Leaf bundle.
Allowing for what I've learned from Jerry's posts, I'd end up with two Leaf 
modules and I think his prices were better. That means other than the lower 
voltage, I'd come out ahead with the Volt bundle compared to the Leaf.
If my math is incorrect or appears to be based on something unrealistic, please 
let me know.
The mower draws a max of 40 amperes and that's not very frequently. It runs 
steadily at about 20-24 amperes. I'm inclined to believe this means I won't be 
overheating the pack, regardless of my selection. By the same token, charging 
would be done with a chemistry specific charger at about 6 amperes. Even though 
the Volt packs can be/are liquid cooled, I believe that I won't need active 
cooling at such a low rate. Again, please correct any misconceptions you see.
fred
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[EVDL] Leaf module charging recommendations

[fred via EV]

Thanks to Jerry Dycus for selling me a great looking clean Volt battery module. 
My still-working Radio Shack (top of the line) digital multimeter tells me all 
the cells are within 0.01 at 3.56 or 3.57 volts.
I've found this useful bit of data:
Number of cells        36
Construction        12 in-series x 3 in parallel
Length              9.5"
Width            9.5"
Height              10.5
Weight             45 lbs
Output terminal        M6 nut
Amp Hour        47
Total Voltage           48vdc

 

CELL SPECIFICATIONS
Cell type        Laminate type
Cathode material       LiMn2O4 with LiNiO2
Anode material          Graphite
Rated capacity (0.3C)   17 Ah
Average voltage        3.8 VDC
Maximum Voltage         4.2VDC
Minimum Voltage          3.0VDC
I measured 42.5vdc across each 12 cell block and the math says it should be 
42.72vdc, which is close enough for my meter. It's not 48vdc and from an 
earlier discussion I expected that to be the case.
When it comes to charging this battery, I would like to ensure to get the right 
stuff. My experience with other lithium based batteries is that the nominal 
voltage of the charger is referenced to the battery and in all cases, the 
battery voltage is higher than the nominal voltage "listed." That is to say, a 
36v battery charges to 42vdc and rarely drops to the 36v reference figure in 
regular use. The charger, of course, pushes electrons into the battery at those 
higher levels.
In the case of the Volt battery, I believe I would not want to use an 
off-the-shelf charger rated for a 48v battery. My search results have all been 
ending in devices with excessive top-end termination.

I would like to have an off-the-shelf solution, however, if such a charger 
exists. My current collection of chargers are plug-in and go type, in that they 
have appropriate profiles for charging to a specific level and tapering off as 
appropriate for the pack.
As an additional consideration, this battery does not need to be charged in an 
hour or even two or three. I'm amenable to a configuration that requires a ten 
hour or longer charge period, especially if cost is lower.
I welcome corrections to my train of thought, even to the point of derailment 
as appropriate. I'm hoping for an off-the-shelf solution that works 
out-of-the-box or works with appropriate adjustments on the panel or equivalent.

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[EVDL] fix it yourself? Myself?

[fred via EV]

I have a Gizmo EV which uses a 10" Sepex motor. Many moons ago, I discovered a 
burned brush and guessed that it was due to low rpm, high current use by the 
previous owner. The motor was replaced with a rebuild version shipped from NY 
state to FL state at not insignificant expense.

More recently, the Gizmo has been sitting idle. Perhaps someone can tell me why 
it feels as though it is cogging at low speed, even though it didn't use to do 
that. At higher speeds, the jitter and jumping goes away, but the low speed 
regime is from zero to about 20 mph and is painful to experience. I've been 
told from one of the Gizmo group denizens that when/if I fix the jitter, it 
would be wise to take a spin every two weeks or so to keep the jitters away. 
Would the commutator oxide over non-use and cause this problem?

Because I retained the previous motor with the burned brush, I figured I'd get 
it checked out, repaired or rebuilt as required, but it's nigh impossible to 
find a motor repair facility in this area. One of the more recently recommended 
shops now has a sign that says something along the lines of "I'll be here if I 
feel like it. Call me to see if I'm here. If I'm not here and I feel like 
working, I'll call you back." He didn't call back. Through the shop window, I 
saw a sign that stated he does not work on electric vehicle motors, although I 
think I could have slipped the ES-10C by as something else.

I have the address in NY from which I ordered the current motor, but the 
shipping would be brutal.

I like to think I'm handy, although physically falling apart as of late. After 
all, I was able to pull one motor and put in the other, but that was in 
healthier days. I can enlist some stronger hands for the hard stuff, should I 
solve the smaller problems.

Is it practical to expect to be able to dismantle the spare motor, replace the 
brushes and then what? Do I need to examine and/or replace the bearings on 
which the shaft operates? Is there a task within the grasp of a mere mortal 
that must be performed on the commutator and/or windings?

Of course, if all of the above is possible to accomplish by a tinkerer, that 
leaves the jittery motor in question. Once it is out, I'd like to have it 
operational without the jitter. The motor is in a position impossible to 
observe the brushes for sparking, as it has a ducted shroud at the brush 
location with forced air cooling. That, along with a lower gear ratio, should 
be providing improved air flow. This particular vehicle has a reputation for 
insufficient airflow. I had installed temperature sensors at the exit vents and 
discovered that in the heat of the summer, it stayed under 150°F, which I 
expect is well within safe limits.

In summary (whew!), is the spare motor fixable by a handy tinkerer? Is the 
in-place motor problem something that is easily identified and as easily 
resolved?

fred
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Re: [EVDL] EV Digest, Vol 66, Issue 31

[fred via EV]

 

  Begin Original Message: 2
From: Lee Hart fred via EV wrote:
> I have a Gizmo EV which uses a 10" Sepex motor.

That doesn't sound like the original motor. I worked on Gizmos many 
moons ago, and as I recall they had D&D 6.7" series motors, and Alltrax 
controllers.

That error is a serious brain glitch. Somewhere in my alleged mind, I exchanged 
the part number with the diameter. This one is probably the D&D motor you know, 
with a Sevcon controller.


> More recently, the Gizmo has been sitting idle. Perhaps someone can tell me 
> why it feels as though it is cogging at low speed, even though it didn't use 
> to do that. At higher speeds, the jitter and jumping goes away, but the low 
> speed regime is from zero to about 20 mph and is painful to experience. I've 
> been told from one of the Gizmo group denizens that when/if I fix the jitter, 
> it would be wise to take a spin every two weeks or so to keep the jitters 
> away. Would the commutator oxide over non-use and cause this problem?
>
> Because I retained the previous motor with the burned brush, I figured I'd 
> get it checked out, repaired or rebuilt as required, but it's nigh impossible 
> to find a motor repair facility in this area. One of the more recently 
> recommended shops now has a sign that says something along the lines of "I'll 
> be here if I feel like it. Call me to see if I'm here. If I'm not here and I 
> feel like working, I'll call you back." He didn't call back. Through the shop 
> window, I saw a sign that stated he does not work on electric vehicle motors, 
> although I think I could have slipped the ES-10C by as something else.

If the brush is all that burned, the commutator can be resurfaced and 
new brushes installed to resurrect the motor. This is not difficult work.

These are hopeful words. Even if all I accomplish is to disassemble the spare 
motor, it may save me a buck or two when I find a repair shop.

> I have the address in NY from which I ordered the current motor, but the 
> shipping would be brutal.

Where are you located? Are there any motor repair places listed in a 
city near you? Any place that works on golf carts, fork lifts, and 
industrial motors can rebuild your motor.

Being in Florida means there are plenty of golf cart places around here. I 
should have thought of that, even though the Gizmo is a bit better performer. 
It's effectively the same technology. If a golf cart shop doesn't fix the 
stuff, they may know of someone who does.

> Is it practical to expect to be able to dismantle the spare motor, replace 
> the brushes and then what?

If the commutator is straight and true (no bent or warped bars), you 
basically put the armature in a lathe, and take off just enough copper 
to clean up and smooth the surface again. Assemble the motor with new 
brushes and brush springs. Run the motor on the bench for several hours 
at low voltage to break it in.

I don't think my toy HF lathe has the capacity to spin the armature, so that 
will have to be outsourced. At least I'll save some labor charges for 
dismantling the motor maybe.

> Do I need to examine and/or replace the bearings on which the shaft operates?

Bearings generally last "forever". If they do need replacement, you need 
a press or gear puller. Again, that's not difficult to find.

I suppose I can spin the motor and see if it feels smooth. It was running fine 
prior to the brush burn up.

> In summary (whew!), is the spare motor fixable by a handy tinkerer?

I'd say it's worth a try. It's worthless if it's broken. How much worse 
can it be? ;-)

I try to use that attitude on my experiments, but again forgot to apply it 
here. It doesn't work now, if something goes wrong, it won't work less, will it?


> Is the in-place motor problem something that is easily identified and as 
> easily resolved?

I can't tell. Maybe someone put the wrong motor and controller in it.

Luckily, I was the someone and it has the right controller. It's the part about 
sitting idle that caused the latest trouble with the in-place motor. I see 
another post in the list to address that.

Thanks for your suggestions and advice. I have more options now than I had 
earlier.

Original Message: 5From: David Nelson 

Fred's Gizmo was built nearly identical to the Gizmo I had. It has a
Sevcon SepEx PP745 controller and the ES10C is the D&D 6.7" SepEx
motor.

Thanks for clearing that up, David.

>> More recently, the Gizmo has been sitting idle. Perhaps someone can tell
>> me why it feels as though it is cogging at low speed, even though it didn't
>> use to do that. At higher speeds, the jitter and jumping goes away, but the
>> low speed regime is from zero to about 20 mph and is painful to experienc

Re: [EVDL] Sparrow alternate?

[fred via EV]

 I have a 2003 Nevco Gizmo that used to be my primary errand vehicle. With a 
"consumption" of 200 watt hours per mile, it was pretty inexpensive to operate. 
Two wheels in front for steering and braking (Brembo dual piston disk brakes) 
and one in the rear for motivation, it is commonly called a reverse trike 
motorcycle.
I would not take a corner at highway speeds, but navigating a curve at highway 
speeds (top speed 52 mph) was no big deal.
In the slower neighborhood, it is unremarkable to make a 90° turn through an 
intersection at reasonable velocity. The battery pack in the Gizmo is quite 
low, suspended between the wheels and has a wonderfully low center of gravity. 
I probably removed more rubber from the wheels from go-cart cornering than from 
any other activity.
In one such turn, the rear wheel caught some collected sand and gave me a bit 
more of the go-cart feeling as it danced sideways a bit. Not much sand, not 
much dancing, unfortunately.
My velomobile is also three wheels, two in front and is almost as stable. I had 
in the past brought it up on two wheels, but it takes a special kind of um, uh, 
idiocy to pursue that type of operation. In the few circumstances in which I 
was two-wheelin', it took only a twitch in the steering to bring it back. The 
Gizmo will more likely spin out than lift an inside wheel. I babied the Gizmo, 
as I did not want to "gun it" and have to replace an expensive drive belt. Once 
or twice, I might have spun the rear wheel with enthusiastic application of the 
F-16 trigger throttle with which the later models were equipped. I believe I 
might have been able to start a drive, as EVs have higher torque at low rpm, 
but it drops back to the belt replacement aspect.

I suspect the new crop of EV reverse trikes will also keep the battery pack low 
for CG reasons. It makes me wonder if the ICE reverse trikes are less stable 
due to the higher mass involved in the operator placement and engine location. 
They might be able to intentionally lift an inside wheel and certainly able to 
break the back end free.
fredGizmo for sale, inquire within.

  --

Original Message: 16
From: Bobby Keeland 

When ATVs were first introduced as 3-wheelers I had one, but did not keep
it for long. 3-wheelers are an accident waiting to happen. With 2 wheels in
the front these car/motorcycle combinations may be safe, but it would take
a lot to convince me. Has anyone on the EVDL actually driven one of these
things and gone around a corner at highway speed?


**
  
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[EVDL] Volts, amps, Volt battery, grass, weed, but not 420

[fred via EV]

I've finally gotten tired of looking at the weed infested plot of land other 
people would call a front yard. To wit, I've managed to install half a volt 
pack module in my Ariens Amp Rider electric riding lawn mower. I was hoping to 
put both split modules in place, but there's just not enough room. The alleged 
47 ampere-hours should be enough for three full cuts, dropping me down to about 
30-35 percent SOC. Ball park figures, they are, as I've only done one cut so 
far, but the module is many magnitudes stronger/stiffer than the VRSLA blocks 
that were removed.
About two hundred pounds (US$260) removed by recycling the VRSLA pack and maybe 
a quarter of that put back in with the Volt module. I detected no difference in 
handling, but at 2-6 mph, what would you be able to detect?
Splitting a 96v module into two 48s wasn't particularly difficult. It started 
to reverse-accordian when I released the through bolts, and I wasn't 
comfortable with hoping to manage loose-leaf volt cells, so back together it 
went. It was a relatively easy matter to engineer two individual module clamps 
that kept each set secure. Adding a set of end plates purchased from eBay 
provided the necessary security to split them, along with a knocked-together 
top clamp for each block.
I also purchased matching balance connectors for the Volt proprietary leads 
sticking up from the module. A bit of defective work on the multimeter allowed 
me to determine which leads had to go where to mate with my 25 ampere balancing 
charger and I was in like Flynn. I'm not sure who he is, but if he was ghosting 
me, all went well.
Now to the crux of the biscuit (the apostrophe).
I've seen figures for maximum charging voltage in the range of 48 volts (4 
volts per cell) and a number of them that go beyond 49 volts. To be on the safe 
side, I configured the charger to the 4 vpc limit. In this particular instance, 
I figured I could have gone higher, because I would be cutting the lawn as soon 
as the charge was complete. Conversely, I'd like to avoid the one-hundred 
percent charge figure that today's automotive manufacturers also avoid. Our 
Rav4EV does about an eighty percent charge unless extended is selected when 
configuring.
What number should I be using for the maximum voltage to attain about an eighty 
(or ninety?) percent state of charge?
I use a CycleAnalyst amp-hour monitor on the mower to ensure I'm not pulling 
the pack/module below a safe limit. If I'm only loading to ninety percent (47 * 
0.9 = 42.3 ah) and I don't want to drop below 20 percent SOC (47 * 0.2 = 9.4 
ah) that should give me about 33 amp-hours running capacity. I can easily limit 
my use to 30 ah and be happy with the results. What voltage would represent 90 
percent charge?
Would it be practical to use the maximum safe voltage to top-balance the 
modules/pack and start my math from there?
Suggestions are greatly appreciated.
I'm running this R/C-grade charger on a 24v power supply connected to 110v 
house current. The power supply is supposed to be capable of 60 amperes. The 
charger can push 25 amps at 48 volts into the battery, but in so doing, it 
overloads the power supply. I've dropped the setting to 20 amps and the power 
supply is indicating a draw of 51 amps. This little package is moving some 
electrons at a pretty good rate, but clearly not stressing the Volt modules.
No liquid cooling in my mower but with a 20 amp charge rate and a continuous 
draw of 25 amps from the mower, peaking at maybe 40 amps, I don't think I'm 
going to cook the module.
It was rewarding to have everything work the very first time I plugged it in 
and figured out the charger. Read the manual carefully!
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Re: [EVDL] shunt versus sepex motors

[fred via EV]

 Separately Excited and Shunt Excited DC Machines

| 
| 
|  | 
Separately Excited and Shunt Excited DC Machines


 |

 |

 |



The above link points to something I learned when I purchased my Gizmo, which 
has a sepex motor. Shunt excited motors and sepex motors are differently wired 
and require appropriately configured controllers. 

  --

Original Message: 4
Date: Fri, 24 May 2019 21:11:35 -0700
From: "Mr. Sharkey" 

Shunt wound motors differ considerably from series wound motors. For one thing, 
they have regenerative capabilities as a native behavior. 
The field windings are energized separately from the armature (they 
are also known as "separately excited" motors). I'll leave it to you, 
or others to do the research on the technical principles involved, 
but suffice it to say, the armature runs at 100% voltage (direct 
connection to the batteries through a contactor), while the motor 
speed is controlled by ~weakening~ the field voltage. That's right, 
~weakening~!

End of Original Message 4
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Re: [EVDL] EV Digest, Vol 89, Issue 2

[fred via EV]

 

  The post about drafting a semi-trailer rig to make range hit home for me. 
When I was a young foolish motorcyclist in New England, during the winter, 
doing just that made temperatures more tolerable. Later years, pedaling a 
velomobile behind a construction crane at 35 mph was a real blast. What better 
draft could a human powered vehicle ask for than an eight foot wide, ten foot 
tall rolling air dam?
For the EV world, I'm surprised Mr. Musk hasn't come up with EV programmed 
platooning. Put a Tesla semi on the road to make money, then link a convoy of 
other Tesla vehicles with V2V networking and let the lead monster triple the 
range of the conga line.
I'd thought about this in years long past that manufacturers should have put 
railway type couplings at a uniform height, with data communications. Get on 
the highway, ease up behind a train of ICEs (back then) and clunk into the 
coupling. Additional dashboard devices would warn the next in line if a middle 
car wanted to pull off on a siding, waking up the driver in time to rejoin to 
the lead rigs.
Elon, are you listening?
 
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[EVDL] electric mower revisited

[fred via EV]

ARIENS AMP electric rider 34" lawn mower 916002 | eBay

| 
| 
| 
| $350.00 |  |

 |

 |
| 
|  | 
ARIENS AMP electric rider 34" lawn mower 916002 | eBay

The rider sat & needs batteries replaced.
 |

 |

 |


This mower is listed on eBay, item 916002 at US$350 in Birmingham, AL with 
local pick up only. There's a lot of negative vibes about the Ariens Amp Rider, 
but ours has been doing well for a number of years. After destroying the third 
set of VRSLA batteries at US$600 a pop (probably due to FL heat), I switched to 
a half-module from a Volt. The voltage is lower, but the drop in voltage during 
use is much less and I'm able to complete a full mow and a bit more, while the 
VRSLA had to be charged three times to complete the yard.
It's not my eBay post, but I felt it deserved a note.
>From a design standpoint, it's a ridiculous arrangement. The electric motor 
>drives a hydrostatic transmission, with a cooling fan. It runs constantly and 
>makes far more noise than necessary and I'm sure the (lack of) efficiency of 
>the hydrostatic transmission doesn't help a bit. I suppose the engineers at 
>the company were/are familiar with such equipment and not so familiar with 
>motor controls. I feel that it would have been smarter to have appropriate 
>gearing without transmission and a decent motor control.
I disabled the off-seat cut-off, the reverse travel cut-off and added a 
CycleAnalyst to keep an eye on things.
I wasn't able to find a Volt half-module, so I bought a full one, some extra 
plates and threaded rod. Now I have battery one and battery two and alternate 
them for mowing. The balance connectors came with the module and pair up nicely 
with the charger I purchased. I get cells balanced to 0.01 volts according to 
the display on the charger.
I hope someone finds this useful.




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Re: [EVDL] list of tree hugger charging locations, charging signs

[fred via EV]

 Digest pruned of many lines, remaining stuff is pertinent, subject line 
changed.
I'm surprised it's taken this long for PlugShare to pop up in the discussion. 
I've been listed since our Xebra days (anyone remember that rolling disaster?) 
but that was 110v back then. 10Kw level 2, NEMA 6-50 and 110v now, powered by 
solar.
Re: charging signs:
I've visited the site and can't find dimensions nor a means to order. I have a 
laser cutter and can engrave Trotec acrylic (two color) which would look just 
like the signs on the web site, but it might be less expensive to buy an 
aluminum sign. Trotec prices are high and shipping kills the deal. If the 
aluminum signs are not available and there's enough demand, I can produce in 
quantity sufficient to justify the purchase, plus customize every sign as 
desired.

  
Message: 2
From: Dale Curren Subject: Re: [EVDL] 2035 GM will cease 
ICE production

I want a list of these treehuggers who give out free charges.  Would be a
fun challenge to get across the country on free electrons.

Message: 6
From: Lee Hart 

You could certainly cross the northern part of the USA on free charging. 
In the northern parts, free public 120v outlets are everywhere. They 
were originally installed to plug in block heaters so people's ICEs 
would start in the winter.

Most states also have building codes that require outdoor AC outlets. 
They get used for Christmas lights, lawn mowers, etc.

It's polite to ask for permission to use them. But in all my years of 
driving EVs, I've almost never been turned down.

Then of course, you could bring PV panels, and charge from the sun.

Lee

Message: 7From: "EVDL Administrator" On 1 Feb 2021 at 13:14, 
paul dove via EV wrote:

> Every day in my Tesla Model S!

You give out free charges in your Tesla?  Presumably to other EVers, yes?

That's a great idea - helping folks who might otherwise be stranded.

How do you do that?  Is the charging port bi-directional?  

Can you charge any other EV, or just Teslas?  

If just Teslas, any Tesla, or just another model S?

David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey



--

Message: 8
From: Jay Summet 

The PlugShare App & Website lists a lot of them. (There are a lot of 
cities and businesses that put in no-charge EVSE's to attract 
businessor just because it's cheaper to give it away than pay the 
fees to maintain the accounting system to charge for it.)

Jay


Message: 2From: Robert Bruninga > but we try to do our part 
hoping that now is the time to put out
> the sign planting a seed and hoping it will grow.

Amen!
THe EV Charging OUtlet sign is the most important part.  Not so much for
the 1%R that might actually need a charge but for the other 99% to see
everyday and subliminally realize theat EV's can chagfe almsotg anywhere.
We have been quite successful in getting peo[ple to put up signs over their
out door outlets:

See http://aprs.org/EV-charging-signs.html

Bob, WB4APR


  
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Re: [EVDL] Chevy Volt BMS

[fred via EV]

This may not be of as much value as you'd like, but I'm using Volt batteries in 
my Ariens Amp riding mower. It had used 48v lead acid gel cells, but at six 
hundred American dollars every two years, it was too much money. Florida heat 
cooks those things and they don't put out much anyway.
The Volt half-module is just barely 48v but the mower tolerates a bit less than 
that, even though a fully charged 48v lead acid pack is in the low fifties.
I'm using a high capacity charger probably designed for radio control model 
use, but it has a HV segment in the programming that accepts my configuration. 
The top of each Volt module has pin-outs for each cell and my purchase source 
included the matching cable, giving me a balance connection to the charger. 
Automatic BMS on the charge cycle with perfect balancing!
I had to buy a 96v bundle for the same $600 that a set of lead-acids would have 
cost and now I have two for the price of one. The seller told me you can't 
split the module, but a couple of end plates from eBay and some threaded rod 
and what you can't do, is done. As the mower draws only 20-40 amps, I don't 
have liquid cooling in place. The maximum current I get from the charger is 
only 25 amps. I know I won't be cooking the modules.
The charger is called the EV Peak A9 and a quick search turns up dozens of 
purchase options.

***
Original Message: 2
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2021 20:17:56 -0400
From: Dan Baker 
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List 
Subject: [EVDL] Chevrolet Volt Battery BMS
Message-ID:
    
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Can anyone here advise if they are using chevrolet volt batteries with a
BMS and if so what BMS they used?  I know the Volt batteries are very
robust, read where a lot of folks have used them without any BMS.  But I
really don't want to take any scary chances like that!  I would like to use
a BMS that only controls the charging & balancing and not the discharge to
avoid any current limit issues - I will just employ the controller's LVD.
 I've been trying to search the evalbum site but it's pretty hard to get
any good results where "Volt" is used a lot!  I had my mind set on getting
some model S packs but still haven't found any priced reasonably locally
while gen2 Volt packs are plentiful and much lower priced.
My boat (link below) has been running great on a China 96v 100a/h suitcase
pack but the fancy bluetooth BMS is limited to 150 amps continuous.
Looking at a bigger motor & controller in the 70-100 hp range so likely a
higher voltage than my current 96v setup.

Thank you
Dan
http://www.evalbum.com/4767
End of Original Message 2
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Re: [EVDL] beware of flying objects, was Spare tire kit for Tesla Y recommendations

[fred via EV]

 I think I don't reside in Mark Hanson's neighborhood, but clearly, one would 
want to maintain an extreme distance from his EVs.

  previous Message: 1
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2021 15:49:36 -0400
From: Mark Hanson 
To: p...@ingineerix.com
Cc: Electric Vehicle Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Spare tire kit for Tesla Y recommendations?
Message-ID: <7c733d99-e3aa-4d6c-8cda-c5b9b1458...@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Thanks Phil 
I ordered the plug kit, compressor , (also a can of fix a flat for slow leaks) 
AND a spare tire kit from Amazon for the Tesla Y.  So I?m covered for simple 
repairs and blowouts (like when a tire/rim bounced off the back of a pickup and 
hit my right front tire on my electric Ghia bending the rim and shredding the 
tire).  Still made it to work 5 minutes late after jacking up and putting on a 
mini spare.  Or the time a rock fell off a rock truck and blew out the tire on 
my electric Porsche.  Or the time I was following the Beverly Hillbillies and 
some unidentified flying object flew off the top of their pickup and blew out a 
tire on my Electro-Metro.  Just sayin: it can happen.  
Best regards
Mark

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[EVDL] tesla/toyota combo (Rav4EV 2012-2014)

[fred via EV]

This question is for everyone, but I suspect that -Phil- has the most insight. 

Many moons ago, my wife and I moved our ownership from a pair of legacy Rav4EVs 
to a pair of "contemporary" versions, which are powered by Tesla batteries and 
drive systems. Most people don't notice the EV badges or the rather-large 
"Electric" badge on the doors and fewer notice the user-added vinyl sticker 
(Powered by Tesla) on the rear door. We drive invisible EVs. Pretty darn quiet 
too. The driveway is now occupied by nearly identical 2013 silver eSUVs. Her 
foot is heavier, so her range is approximately twenty percent less than mine, 
but far superior to the long-gone-frequently-overheated NiMH legacy versions.

The legacy Rav4EVs had a bit of genius tech known as the Rav4Info, running on a 
Palm device and connected to the OBDII port. Great information was gained by 
the display and is missed, as it is now supplanted by a bare minimum of dash 
gauge displays.
As is "normal" for today's EVs, there appear to be no OBDII practical devices 
for keeping a closer eye on the systems.
The curious thing about these vehicles is the second "OBDII" port in the 
luggage bay. From my understanding, it's a Tesla data port, while the underdash 
connection is for Toyota.
Are there consumer-level readers with which one can access information from 
either (or both) ports? I'd love to see something as simple as current draw, 
state of charge, voltage levels, etc. 


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[EVDL] Electric riding mowers

[fred via EV]

 I too have been disappointed in the lack of lithium-chemistry battery electric 
mowers. Many moons ago, we purchased an Ariens Amp electric rider. Twenty tiny 
VRSLA batteries (4s5p) stuffed under the seat. The mower has been severely 
criticized in review from past times, although for wrong reasons, in my opinion.
In the Florida heat, the pack managed to last three years. The replacement 
US$600.00 pack lasted about a year and a half. Thanks to a list member, my 
mower now sports a half-module from a Volt.
I'm aware from my lead-acid Xebra days that fifty percent DoD is safest, so the 
mower got equipped with a CycleAnalyst, high current version. That meant I 
could baby the lead-acid pack, but it still could not tolerate the heat of the 
day or the heat of the storage. It turned into a 
three-charge-cycles-to-mow-a-quarter-acre mower.
Having the Volt half-module means I can get two runs, possibly three from a 
single charge, but I am babying the pack even now by not max-charging it and 
bringing the battery inside after each use and also no charging it until the 
day before it is needed. I had to purchase a full module for US$600 but that 
means I have twice the capacity (but can't fit them both inside) so I alternate 
the batteries. To further ensure long happy life, I purchased an expensive 
charger that does individual cell balancing and the Volt battery came with a 
balancing cable! I expect the modules will outlast me.
Any EV owner knows how the quiet is the best part of the vehicle (opinion, of 
course), but the Amp really screwed that up. They used what I suspect is the 
technology they knew and put a hydrostatic transmission in this thing. That 
means the traction motor runs constantly to keep the system pressurized, a 
complete waste of energy. Hydraulics are not known to be particularly efficient 
in power transfer. The two systems alone amount for eighty percent of the 
noise. One neighbor told me that he was surprised I had a fuel powered mower, 
after hearing me start it.
If I had to replace the Amp, I'd look for a lithium version I could afford, or 
consider immediately to replace the lead pack.

  
 
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[EVDL] EV taxing

[fred via EV]

I may have seen reference to this concept in the not-so-recent past, but 
certainly haven't seen any reference to this concept recently, nor any 
reference to the "proactive" aspect I'd like to see promoted.
In the early days of ultralight air vehicles, there was an impending threat of 
US Government banishment/intervention. The community, which was much smaller 
than today's EV community, banded together and worked with the FAA to create 
regulations. 

The concept that makes sense to me is to charge per-mile fees to EV owners, not 
per year registration fees. 

I recognize that I'm not a typical EV owner, nor is my wife, but my two 
thousand to three thousand miles per year does not justify the fees I've seen 
posted. My wife's four thousand miles per year also fits into this equation.
If an entity has to modify the registration system to accept a specific fee for 
an EV, the modification should be based on previous year's travels via odometer 
reading. It's hardly difficult to provide such information during registration, 
no more so than providing insurance verification as is currently done.
How would it be possible to push this concept into the appropriate entity in 
advance of this entity's movement to set (excessive) annual fees?
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[EVDL] an EV chuckle

[fred via EV]

 
My wife and I are working out the gremlins in one of our two 2013 Rav4EVs. The 
charger is going to be replaced soon (Thanksgiving?) but the traction coolant 
pump is the real gremlin. Do you know how stressed out one's spouse can get 
when the System Warning appears on the dash? Words fail me. As an aside, our 
long-gone Subaru station wagon had an ECS light, akin to the "check engine" 
light on many ICE vehicles. We determined later that it stands for "Excite 
Crazy Spouse."
I digress.
Today, her trip to work ended with turtle mode. The pump has been diagnosed six 
ways to Sunday and a replacement is going to arrive Saturday, fingers crossed. 
The pump isn't failing, but the sensors within are reporting that it is or that 
it has.
She stopped the vehicle on a four lane roadway, raised median, no shoulders, 
raised curbs on all sides. Local deputy dawg appeared while we were engaging in 
cellular communications. With a "red and blues" escort, she made it to the safe 
haven of the airport off-site cell phone lot awaiting my arrival.
She told me later that the officer suggested that she have the fuel filter, 
fuel pump and air filter checked for damage from the hurricane. A small 
chuckle. The Rav4EV might as well be invisible on the road as a "real" electric 
vehicle.
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[EVDL] a shot in the dark, 2012-2014 Rav4EV navigation unit?

[fred via EV]

This vehicle is a rarity and I'm hopeful an answer can be found. 

My 2013 Rav4EV has had the navigation unit fail. My wife's vehicle, same year, 
loaned the unit, which connected to my vehicle works fine, eliminating wiring, 
fuses, etc. Once returned to her car, it continues to work properly, not always 
a sure thing under my ham-fisted efforts.
The MyRav4EV forum has been helpful for diagnostic info in the past, but there 
are no sources for this part and eBay is coming up empty as well. General 
internet searches generate aftermarket products which are most likely not a 
plug-and-play for this EV.
Perhaps someone has a similar model vehicle that's been mothballed from which I 
can purchase the nav unit? It's astonishingly easy to remove, almost ten 
minutes to get it out. Someone did a bang-up job designing that portion of the 
vehicle!
Singing to myself as I drive is getting old.
thanksfred
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[EVDL] EV Standards, was: Rental giant Hertz dumps EVs...

[fred via EV]

As a current owner of a non-working Gizmo EV, I can offer that the steering 
appeared to be daunting, but operated in the same manner as an ordinary 
motorcycle and required zero adaptation. I believe the handgrips on my 2003 
unit were fashioned from an F-16 but the buttons operated also in the typical 
motorcycle manner. Turn signals, wiper, horn. Having an accelerator trigger 
with a 5 mm travel meant one should be sensitive with the application of power, 
however.
People found the top hinged door amusing and far too often compared it to the 
Isetta, the steering to a skid-steer.
As an aside, if one wants to own one of the 36 manufactured, I'm open to 
offers. It does appear to be a candidate for Barn Finds, however.

--

Original Message: 1
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2024 14:02:54 + (UTC)
From: Lawrence Winiarski 

Good point.??? The "Gizmo"? EV steering was 2 levers on the floor,? I guess 
like some trikes.

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[EVDL] Battery packs and UPS options?

[fred via EV]

 Within six months (my wife's retirement), we will no longer need one of the 
two EVs in our fleet of Rav4EVs (contemporary, not legacy). I feel the resale 
value is low, due to a turbine song from the power plant, confirmed by coolant 
speckles on the speed sensor. If it survives to the date, we'll need only one 
vehicle. If not, I'll be pressed into chauffeur duty for the interim with my 
not-yet-checked Rav4EV.
With such a low value for the humming Rav4EV, I'm considering repurposing the 
vehicle as a UPS but it must be an off-street-legal integration, as opposed to 
a street-legal one which I think only applies to V2G vehicles currently in 
production.
What options exist to provide the equivalent of a Tesla PowerWall from the 
removed pack of this Rav4EV? Rather than fill up this vehicle oriented forum, 
perhaps a viewer can redirect me to a suitable forum? Also, I feel it's 
important to note that we have a PowerWall and 9Kw of solar PV and it would be 
great to make this all work together. I have real estate on the south wall 
adjacent to the PowerWall, no windows, power meter and primary cut-off all in 
the same location.
Due to limited physical capabilities, I'll probably have to pay for muscle, but 
parting out the shell may provide for funding. This will be July 2024 or later, 
temperatures in Florida will be inversely uncomfortable compared to today in 
most of the USA.

  
 
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Re: [EVDL] Battery packs and UPS options?

[fred via EV]

As much as I like to do DIY stuff, -Phil-'s suggestion is wise. It would have 
grated to have to hire muscle making it less DIY after all. The insurance 
aspect escaped my alleged mind and certainly is an important aspect. It's not 
like I have a hunting cabin in the woods, which still would not justify the 
risk and difficulty.
This idea becomes immediately abandoned.Thanks very much for the input. I like 
also things that result in less work for me!

**Original Message: 6
From: "(-Phil-)" 
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List 

As much as I like to see DIY stuff, I'd recommend you just sell your Rav4EV
and use that to add some powerwalls.  Not only is it a lot of work to make
something like this, it's also difficult to make it safe, and if something
bad happens and you have a house fire, you don't want the insurance company
denying your claim because you hooked a non-approved home-brew device to
your home's electrical system w/o permits, etc.

The main problem is there are no good off-the-shelf solutions for inverters
with a proper control system.  In addition, unless you fully
reverse-engineer the Tesla BMS in there, you'll have to roll-your-own, and
it's hard to do that safely, let alone easily and/or affordably.

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Re: [EVDL] Rav4EV motor was: Battery packs and UPS options?

[fred via EV]

 Due to limited mobility, flexibility and increasing agony, removing the motor 
is not in my list of capabilities. Florida is lacking in folks with this sort 
of skill, although a local wrench has offered to research the process. I've not 
heard from him for a week, though. The Rav4EV forum isn't responsive to my 
search for resources either. There's a Tesla third-party shop about 70 miles 
away, but he'd declined to replace the OBC and probably would decline a motor 
removal and rebuild.
With less than six months remaining before we can drop to a single vehicle, a 
motor repair would mean a better resale price, but the car would still be 
dropped from the fleet. My lack of mobility also means that I haven't yet 
checked mine for coolant sprinkles on the speed sensor. I have to wait until 
the temperatures reach butter-melting levels and it will still take me a half 
hour to get down to ground level and back up again. I just realized that the 
thrift shop body hoist may get a new use.

On Saturday, January 20, 2024 at 11:49:00 AM EST, (-Phil-) 
 wrote:  
 
 FYI, I forgot to mention, you can drop the Tesla drive unit and replace the 
bearings in there to get rid of the milling noise.   I have done it.
Sadly it doesn't last forever because of a flaw in the design that was fixed in 
later revisions, but I've seen them do 60k miles.
The Rav4EV is still a better car than a powerwall.


  
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[EVDL] Not a conversion, was: '91 BMW 318i conversion to electric

[fred via EV]

Quite a few years ago, I happened across the Nevco Gizmo EV. Constructed from 
the ground up in the USA using locally sourced parts (mostly), it was certainly 
a unique vehicle. I felt I had a great deal on the purchase and sunk a few more 
simoleans into it, replacing 560 pounds of VRSLA with 200 pounds of LiFePO4, 
increasing the voltage from 48 nominal to 66 nominal, 69 off the charger.
With the weight reduction and voltage increase, top speed went from 35 to 52 on 
level ground and range was boosted from 15/25 at 50% consumption to 75 miles at 
80% consumption. The DC/DC converter didn't like the 69 volts, but a day's 
delay off the charger, or a few minutes with the key on and it was happy again.
One aspect of the vehicle was the side stick steering, which people felt would 
be a skid-steer environment, but the reality was that it was ordinary 
motorcycle feel. Another trip for the alleged mind was the hinge at the top 
front access. It's astonishing how many people associated that with the Isetta 
(side opening, not top!) but that's how the world turns.
I believe only 36 were produced and my #32 has quite a few of the "upgrades." 
This included a belt drive in place of a chain (so much quieter) as well as a 
set of F-16 grips for throttle, lights, horn, turn signals. My personal 
upgrades were the batteries, of course, but a CycleAnalyst to allow me to keep 
track of the pack health and depletion, along with forced air cooling on the 
motor, and a gear reduction to increase rpm for yet additional cooling. I was 
able to manage four miles per kilowatt hour, which in retrospect isn't 
particularly efficient, considering that I can get four and a half miles per 
kilowatt hour from our 2013 Rav4EV. Except for the go-cart-stiff bone-breaking 
suspension, it was more fun than the Rav4EV.

Prior to the gear reduction and forced cooling, the too-low rpm took its toll 
on the brushes and fried them. Pretty inexpensive to replace the motor from NY 
state, although it weighs 70 pounds. 

A video can be found on the YouTube showing the vehicle without the side 
curtains or vinyl windows, which were later installed.


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Gizmo Goes (trip two)


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It's not a conversion, but it certainly was a project.
Unfortunately my health prevents me from working on it for possibly as many as 
ten years and the pack is kaput, the side curtains and windows are mildewed 
beyond belief. Before relegated to the back yard, the motor was problematic, 
with a cogging feel unrelated to "normal" expectations. I have a rebuilt motor 
in the box ready for impossible-for-me installation, along with the requirement 
of replacing the pack, of course. It's a sepex motor, purported to be more 
efficient. The controller also supports regen, which was never implemented 
while in my hands, nor the previous owner's. Brembo disk brakes for the front 
and a rather unusual rear brake primarily for parking/locking out movement. In 
a tadpole/reverse trike, one does not wish to lock the lightly loaded rear 
wheel, unless swapping ends is on the menu. I never tried to spin out, other 
than on a sandy patch, as I didn't want to subject myself to replacing a 
hundred dollar herringbone drive belt (back then. How much now?).

If anyone wishes to take on a rebuild project, drop me a line and I'll be happy 
to send Barn Find grade photos. No offer considered too absurd. Three ramp 
trailer included, but probably needs a bearing repack after sitting for ten 
years!
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