Re: [EVDL] 2035 GM will cease ICE production

[Jay Summet via EV]

The PlugShare App & Website lists a lot of them. (There are a lot of 
cities and businesses that put in no-charge EVSE's to attract 
businessor just because it's cheaper to give it away than pay the 
fees to maintain the accounting system to charge for it.)


Jay

On 2/1/21 7:34 AM, Dale Curren via EV wrote:

I want a list of these treehuggers who give out free charges.  Would be a
fun challenge to get across the country on free electrons.

On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 7:41 PM EVDL Administrator via EV 
wrote:


On 30 Jan 2021 at 21:07, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:


Once Joe Six Pack realizes he can DIY a solar system and buy a used

electric

vehicle for well under 20K attitudes are going to change.


Don't hold your breath.

We're split into tribes here in the US.  Haven't you noticed?  Even if
they'd be in Joe's own economic self-interest, PVs and EVs are for the
other
tribe, not Joe's.

David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey

To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my
offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
  Read not to contradict and confute, nor to believe and take
  for granted, but to weigh and consider.

 -- Francis Bacon
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

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Re: [EVDL] 2035 GM will cease ICE production

[EVDL Administrator via EV]

On 1 Feb 2021 at 13:14, paul dove via EV wrote:

> Every day in my Tesla Model S!

You give out free charges in your Tesla?  Presumably to other EVers, yes?

That's a great idea - helping folks who might otherwise be stranded.

How do you do that?  Is the charging port bi-directional?  

Can you charge any other EV, or just Teslas?  

If just Teslas, any Tesla, or just another model S?

David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey

To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my 
offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
 I learned "sesquipedalian" from Mark Twain, who used it as an 
 adjective to describe a long word. Sesquipedalian is a sesqui-
 pedalian word. In a world where phonetically is not spelled 
 the way it sounds, and Gary Oldman was a young man when Henny 
 Youngman was an old man, it was nice to have a word that 
 actually described itself.

  -- found on the internet
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 

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Re: [EVDL] 2035 GM will cease ICE production

[Robert Bruninga via EV]

I have an EV CHARGING OUTLET sign on the power pole down by the street over
my L1 charging outlet.  It would take a long time to get across country by
using it, since it would take a day and a half for each full charge of a
Model S for example and there is not much to do in my culdesac.  It is
listed on the official NRAL data base of charging sites.
 Bob

On Mon, Feb 1, 2021 at 12:03 PM paul dove via EV  wrote:

> Every day in my Tesla Model S!
>
>
> Sent from AT&T Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Monday, February 1, 2021, 6:34 AM, Dale Curren via EV <
> ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:
>
> I want a list of these treehuggers who give out free charges.  Would be a
> fun challenge to get across the country on free electrons.
>
> On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 7:41 PM EVDL Administrator via EV <
> ev@lists.evdl.org>
> wrote:
>
> > On 30 Jan 2021 at 21:07, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:
> >
> > > Once Joe Six Pack realizes he can DIY a solar system and buy a used
> > electric
> > > vehicle for well under 20K attitudes are going to change.
> >
> > Don't hold your breath.
> >
> > We're split into tribes here in the US.  Haven't you noticed?  Even if
> > they'd be in Joe's own economic self-interest, PVs and EVs are for the
> > other
> > tribe, not Joe's.
> >
> > David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey
> >
> > To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my
> > offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt
> >
> > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> >  Read not to contradict and confute, nor to believe and take
> >  for granted, but to weigh and consider.
> >
> >-- Francis Bacon
> > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> >
> > ___
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> >
>
>
> --
> Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget your perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in.
> -- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
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Re: [EVDL] 2035 GM will cease ICE production

[paul dove via EV]

Every day in my Tesla Model S!


Sent from AT&T Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Monday, February 1, 2021, 6:34 AM, Dale Curren via EV  
wrote:

I want a list of these treehuggers who give out free charges.  Would be a
fun challenge to get across the country on free electrons.

On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 7:41 PM EVDL Administrator via EV 
wrote:

> On 30 Jan 2021 at 21:07, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:
>
> > Once Joe Six Pack realizes he can DIY a solar system and buy a used
> electric
> > vehicle for well under 20K attitudes are going to change.
>
> Don't hold your breath.
>
> We're split into tribes here in the US.  Haven't you noticed?  Even if
> they'd be in Joe's own economic self-interest, PVs and EVs are for the
> other
> tribe, not Joe's.
>
> David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey
>
> To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my
> offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>      Read not to contradict and confute, nor to believe and take
>      for granted, but to weigh and consider.
>
>                                                -- Francis Bacon
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
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>


-- 
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in.
        -- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
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Re: [EVDL] 2035 GM will cease ICE production

[Dale Curren via EV]

I want a list of these treehuggers who give out free charges.  Would be a
fun challenge to get across the country on free electrons.

On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 7:41 PM EVDL Administrator via EV 
wrote:

> On 30 Jan 2021 at 21:07, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:
>
> > Once Joe Six Pack realizes he can DIY a solar system and buy a used
> electric
> > vehicle for well under 20K attitudes are going to change.
>
> Don't hold your breath.
>
> We're split into tribes here in the US.  Haven't you noticed?  Even if
> they'd be in Joe's own economic self-interest, PVs and EVs are for the
> other
> tribe, not Joe's.
>
> David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey
>
> To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my
> offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>  Read not to contradict and confute, nor to believe and take
>  for granted, but to weigh and consider.
>
> -- Francis Bacon
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
> ___
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> LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>


-- 
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in.
-- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
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Re: [EVDL] 2035 GM will cease ICE production

[Lawrence Rhodes via EV]

 On 30 Jan 2021 at 21:07, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:

> Once Joe Six Pack realizes he can DIY a solar system and buy a used electric
> vehicle for well under 20K attitudes are going to change. 

"Don't hold your breath.  

We're split into tribes here in the US.  Haven't you noticed?  Even if 
they'd be in Joe's own economic self-interest, PVs and EVs are for the other 
tribe, not Joe's.  

David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey" The tribe of "money" will 
prevail. By brother who is a die hard Trumper put up solar panels to run his 
air conditioner and wants an electric car. That is the kind of loose cannon 
republican that makes you scratch your head. Believes in solar panels but not 
masks but is most concerned with his 401k..which is a million dollars...from 
working at Costco and doing wedding photography. Hard to find a more 
conservative person. 
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Re: [EVDL] 2035 GM will cease ICE production

[EVDL Administrator via EV]

On 30 Jan 2021 at 21:07, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:

> Once Joe Six Pack realizes he can DIY a solar system and buy a used electric
> vehicle for well under 20K attitudes are going to change. 

Don't hold your breath.  

We're split into tribes here in the US.  Haven't you noticed?  Even if 
they'd be in Joe's own economic self-interest, PVs and EVs are for the other 
tribe, not Joe's.  

David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey

To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my 
offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
 Read not to contradict and confute, nor to believe and take 
 for granted, but to weigh and consider.

-- Francis Bacon
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 

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Re: [EVDL] 2035 GM will cease ICE production

[Robert Bruninga via EV]

> but we try to do our part hoping that now is the time to put out
> the sign planting a seed and hoping it will grow.

Amen!
THe EV Charging OUtlet sign is the most important part.  Not so much for
the 1%R that might actually need a charge but for the other 99% to see
everyday and subliminally realize theat EV's can chagfe almsotg anywhere.
We have been quite successful in getting peo[ple to put up signs over their
out door outlets:

See http://aprs.org/EV-charging-signs.html

Bob, WB4APR


On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 5:29 PM Ron Solberg via EV 
wrote:

> I agree. IMHO, Joe Six Pack will also have need of 30 to 80 amp AC EVSE
> stations once he catches on. For whatever reason he will sometimes need
> a boost to get where he is going. Last week I was visited by an engineer
> from our power company to Ok the two 5.6KW Grid Feed PV arrays we had
> just put on line. I was pleased to see he was driving their Leaf, by
> choice. When he drove up, I asked if he could use a boost from our CS100
> ClpperCreek EVSE. He said yes. Otherwise he would have to drive out of
> his way to another company station to make it back.
>
> Since 2010 We have Installed ClipperCreek EVSE units in several of our
> rental units, charging Teslas that travel through. When nearby Sioux
> Falls,SD got SuperChargers, that stopped. We cannot compete with DC.
>
> The chicken or the egg? Presently, in agreement with your post, we are
> putting out a sign that promotes an EV-PV Marriage. Previously we have
> not advertised. Locally, there has been little interest in our Model 3
> Tesla, but we try to do our part hoping that now is the time to put out
> the sign planting a seed and hoping it will grow.
>
> On 2021-01-30 15:07, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:
> > Once Joe Six Pack realizes he can DIY a solar system and buy a used
> > electric vehicle for well under 20K attitudes are going to change.
> > When car buyers realize they might not get their money's worth out of
> > a new gas car purchase things will start to change very fast. You
> > can't make your own gas or diesel and nobody will give you free
> > gasoline. However every tree hugger on the planet want's to give you a
> > free charge and you can roll your own. The green new deal is going to
> > surprise everyone with speed of adoption. Lawrence RhodesDo the
> > Math.
> > -- next part --
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> >
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Re: [EVDL] 2035 GM will cease ICE production

[Ron Solberg via EV]

I agree. IMHO, Joe Six Pack will also have need of 30 to 80 amp AC EVSE 
stations once he catches on. For whatever reason he will sometimes need 
a boost to get where he is going. Last week I was visited by an engineer 
from our power company to Ok the two 5.6KW Grid Feed PV arrays we had 
just put on line. I was pleased to see he was driving their Leaf, by 
choice. When he drove up, I asked if he could use a boost from our CS100 
ClpperCreek EVSE. He said yes. Otherwise he would have to drive out of 
his way to another company station to make it back.


Since 2010 We have Installed ClipperCreek EVSE units in several of our 
rental units, charging Teslas that travel through. When nearby Sioux 
Falls,SD got SuperChargers, that stopped. We cannot compete with DC.


The chicken or the egg? Presently, in agreement with your post, we are 
putting out a sign that promotes an EV-PV Marriage. Previously we have 
not advertised. Locally, there has been little interest in our Model 3 
Tesla, but we try to do our part hoping that now is the time to put out 
the sign planting a seed and hoping it will grow.


On 2021-01-30 15:07, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:

Once Joe Six Pack realizes he can DIY a solar system and buy a used
electric vehicle for well under 20K attitudes are going to change.
When car buyers realize they might not get their money's worth out of
a new gas car purchase things will start to change very fast. You
can't make your own gas or diesel and nobody will give you free
gasoline. However every tree hugger on the planet want's to give you a
free charge and you can roll your own. The green new deal is going to
surprise everyone with speed of adoption. Lawrence RhodesDo the
Math.
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Re: [EVDL] 2035 GM will cease ICE production

[Lawrence Rhodes via EV]

Once Joe Six Pack realizes he can DIY a solar system and buy a used electric 
vehicle for well under 20K attitudes are going to change. When car buyers 
realize they might not get their money's worth out of a new gas car purchase 
things will start to change very fast. You can't make your own gas or diesel 
and nobody will give you free gasoline. However every tree hugger on the planet 
want's to give you a free charge and you can roll your own. The green new deal 
is going to surprise everyone with speed of adoption. Lawrence RhodesDo the 
Math. 
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Re: [EVDL] 2035 GM will cease ICE production

[Mark Abramowitz via EV]

Have they really gone “far beyond” settlement requirements?

Many of their investments in EVs were mandated as part of the settlement 
agreement.

I suspect it was a little of both, as they have been working on EVs (both 
battery and fuel cell electrics) for many years.

But then, GM has also been working on these technologies, and has huge numbers 
of patents.

- Mark

Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone

> On Jan 29, 2021, at 9:47 AM, Willie via EV  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On 1/29/21 8:10 AM, paul dove via EV wrote:
>>  Well, it's not the same thing really. What GM did was legal. What VW did 
>> was illegal. VW got their hand slapped and this is the deal they made to 
>> make up for the deceit.
> 
> Well, there is "illegal" and then there is reprehensible.
> 
> VW has gone far beyond their settlement requirements.  They are showing that 
> they are serious about conversion to EVs.  GM is just talking and postponing.
> 
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Re: [EVDL] 2035 GM will cease ICE production

[EVDL Administrator via EV]

On 29 Jan 2021 at 11:47, Willie via EV wrote:

> VW has gone far beyond their settlement requirements.  They are showing 
> that they are serious about conversion to EVs.  GM is just talking and 
> postponing.

I'm not a VW executive, so I have no idea of their reasoning; but that could 
be partly because they're a global vehicle manufactuer, and they'd like to 
carry on with selling vehicles worldwide.  :-)

In 2019, VW sold three-quarters of its vehicles in Asia and Europe, where 
consumers and governments have made it clear that they want EVs.  Only 6% of 
their 2019 sales were in the US.

GM, on the other hand, is still primarily a US-oriented automaker.  Like 
many other automakers, they say that they think their future is in China.  
However, in 2019 they still sold more vehicles in the US (40% of their 
sales) than in China (37%).  Again, I'm not an auto industry expert, but I'd 
guess that many of the Chinese sales are more attributable to their Chinese 
automaker partners than to anything GM themselves actually did.  Please 
correct me if that's wrong.

GM still have their flag planted solidly in their US fleet of bloated, 
inefficient, high-profit trucks and SUVs.  I expect they'll waddle on that 
way for another couple of decades here in the States.

GM has no worries about Europe's 2025-2040 EV goals.  After decades of 
failure and losses, they wrote off Europe in 2017 when they sold their Opel 
and Vauxhall divisions to PSA.

But if they really think their future is in China, then they'd darn well 
better get cracking on EVs, because China wants them too.  

Just think how much more experience and worldwide "cred" GM would have with 
EVs right now if they hadn't buried NiMH, and if instead of crushing the 
EV1, they'd evolved it into something more like the Tesla S.  But they 
didn't.

In 2019 Volkswagen sold 6.3 million vehicles worldwide.  GM sold 1.9 
million.  If I were an investor, I don't think I'd be buying GM stock right 
now, no matter how much they talk about their EV future.

David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey

To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my 
offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
 My therapist told me that a great way to let go of your anger 
 is to write letters to people you hate and then burn them. I 
 did that, and I feel much better, but I'm wondering - do I 
 keep the letters?

  -- Anonymous
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 

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Re: [EVDL] 2035 GM will cease ICE production

[Willie via EV]

On 1/29/21 8:10 AM, paul dove via EV wrote:

  Well, it's not the same thing really. What GM did was legal. What VW did was 
illegal. VW got their hand slapped and this is the deal they made to make up 
for the deceit.


Well, there is "illegal" and then there is reprehensible.

VW has gone far beyond their settlement requirements.  They are showing 
that they are serious about conversion to EVs.  GM is just talking and 
postponing.


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Re: [EVDL] 2035 GM will cease ICE production

[Willie via EV]

On 1/29/21 9:31 AM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
As far as GM's "crime" about NiMH, the biggest difference is that no one 
knows about it. Yes, everyone who's been on this list does. But if you 
were to ask random people, probably 99% don't know and probably don't 
know what NiMH is, either.


You make my point that GM has been successful in obscuring their really 
terrible history.  And, they continue.


EVAngels should do more to "hold GM's feet to the fire".
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Re: [EVDL] 2035 GM will cease ICE production

[paul dove via EV]

 Well, it's not the same thing really. What GM did was legal. What VW did was 
illegal. VW got their hand slapped and this is the deal they made to make up 
for the deceit. 

On Friday, January 29, 2021, 6:49:04 AM CST, Willie via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 

On 1/28/21 8:01 PM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
> It's a long way off but, hey, they are making it official.
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2021/01/28/general-motors-electric/
>  

Well, it IS great news!

I see it as an act of desperation.  Too little, too slow, too late.  GM 
committed what I consider a fatal sin in removing the possibility, for 
~10 years, of using NiMh in EVs.

I've many times seen the argument that it is time to forgive and forget 
GM's NiMH actions.  That NiMH would never have made acceptable EV 
batteries.  That it was GM's right to remove NiMH from the EV market. 
That none of the GM people that did the NiMH deed remain in the company. 
It seems that all making those arguments may be doing so at GM's 
direction.  GM has never "owned up" to what they did and continue to try 
to ignore their history.

Contrast GM to VW.  VW made a mistake.  They admitted the mistake.  They 
are adopting EV production as soon as possible.  GM has continued to 
ignore their crime and apparently continue to try to suppress public 
knowledge of the history.

In considering what might have been had GM not suppressed NiMH, a 
comparison of the first RAV4EV with the Leaf is appropriate.  The NiMH 
RAV4 preceded the Leaf by about 10 years.  The RAV4 battery gave the car 
greater range than the Leaf and the RAV4 battery has proven to be longer 
lived that the Leaf battery.
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Re: [EVDL] 2035 GM will cease ICE production

[Peri Hartman via EV]

As far as GM's "crime" about NiMH, the biggest difference is that no one 
knows about it. Yes, everyone who's been on this list does. But if you 
were to ask random people, probably 99% don't know and probably don't 
know what NiMH is, either.


Will GM keep to it's statement ? Not without pressure. Pressure probably 
will come from the gov, but the real pressure will be from Tesla and 
other manufacturers.


The real measure of the tipping point is when the average consumer 
thinks buying an EV is a good financial move.


Peri

<< Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>

-- Original Message --
From: "Willie via EV" 
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Cc: "Willie" 
Sent: 29-Jan-21 4:48:55 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] 2035 GM will cease ICE production




On 1/28/21 8:01 PM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:

It's a long way off but, hey, they are making it official.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2021/01/28/general-motors-electric/


Well, it IS great news!

I see it as an act of desperation.  Too little, too slow, too late.  GM 
committed what I consider a fatal sin in removing the possibility, for ~10 
years, of using NiMh in EVs.

I've many times seen the argument that it is time to forgive and forget GM's NiMH 
actions.   That NiMH would never have made acceptable EV batteries.  That it was GM's 
right to remove NiMH from the EV market. That none of the GM people that did the NiMH 
deed remain in the company. It seems that all making those arguments may be doing so at 
GM's direction.  GM has never "owned up" to what they did and continue to try 
to ignore their history.

Contrast GM to VW.  VW made a mistake.  They admitted the mistake.  They are 
adopting EV production as soon as possible.  GM has continued to ignore their 
crime and apparently continue to try to suppress public knowledge of the 
history.

In considering what might have been had GM not suppressed NiMH, a comparison of 
the first RAV4EV with the Leaf is appropriate.  The NiMH RAV4 preceded the Leaf 
by about 10 years.  The RAV4 battery gave the car greater range than the Leaf 
and the RAV4 battery has proven to be longer lived that the Leaf battery.
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Re: [EVDL] 2035 GM will cease ICE production

[paul dove via EV]

Yes, but statements like this GM one are nonsense. Elon repeatedly says the 
hurtle is battery production. He would have several different models already if 
he could make the batteries faster. I don’t see others building giga factories 
like Tesla so it’s a pipe dream and political showing.


Sent from AT&T Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Thursday, January 28, 2021, 8:13 PM, Mark Abramowitz via EV 
 wrote:

Does anyone still disagree that we’ve passed the tipping point?

- Mark

Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone

> On Jan 28, 2021, at 6:01 PM, Peri Hartman via EV  wrote:
> 
> It's a long way off but, hey, they are making it official.
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2021/01/28/general-motors-electric/
> 
> GM has said it would invest $27 billion in electric vehicles and associated 
> products between 2020 and 2025, ... includes refurbishing factories and 
> investing in battery production in conjunction with LG Chem, a South Korean 
> battery maker.
> 
> By late 2025, about 40 percent of the company’s U.S. models will be 
> battery-powered electric vehicles,
> 
> The electric-vehicle industry has grown exponentially in the past decade but 
> still represents less than 2 percent of automobiles sold in the United States.
> 
> The timing of the GM announcement was tied in large part to the election of 
> Joe Biden ... Biden signed an executive order that calls for the federal 
> fleet of approximately 645,000 vehicles to be converted to electric power. He 
> has also vowed to expand charging stations for electric cars, revise and 
> extend electric-vehicle tax credits and tighten fuel economy standards for 
> gas-powered vehicles.
> 
> Volkswagen, for example, is planning to launch almost 70 new electric models 
> in the next 10 years... Ford ... is spending $11.5 billion through 2022 on 
> new EVs. Tesla plans to increase sales of its all-electric fleet.
> 
> 
> << Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>
> -- next part --
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> 
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Re: [EVDL] 2035 GM will cease ICE production

[Willie via EV]

On 1/28/21 8:01 PM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:

It's a long way off but, hey, they are making it official.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2021/01/28/general-motors-electric/ 


Well, it IS great news!

I see it as an act of desperation.  Too little, too slow, too late.  GM 
committed what I consider a fatal sin in removing the possibility, for 
~10 years, of using NiMh in EVs.


I've many times seen the argument that it is time to forgive and forget 
GM's NiMH actions.   That NiMH would never have made acceptable EV 
batteries.  That it was GM's right to remove NiMH from the EV market. 
That none of the GM people that did the NiMH deed remain in the company. 
It seems that all making those arguments may be doing so at GM's 
direction.  GM has never "owned up" to what they did and continue to try 
to ignore their history.


Contrast GM to VW.  VW made a mistake.  They admitted the mistake.  They 
are adopting EV production as soon as possible.  GM has continued to 
ignore their crime and apparently continue to try to suppress public 
knowledge of the history.


In considering what might have been had GM not suppressed NiMH, a 
comparison of the first RAV4EV with the Leaf is appropriate.  The NiMH 
RAV4 preceded the Leaf by about 10 years.  The RAV4 battery gave the car 
greater range than the Leaf and the RAV4 battery has proven to be longer 
lived that the Leaf battery.

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Re: [EVDL] 2035 GM will cease ICE production

[Mark Abramowitz via EV]

Does anyone still disagree that we’ve passed the tipping point?

- Mark

Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone

> On Jan 28, 2021, at 6:01 PM, Peri Hartman via EV  wrote:
> 
> It's a long way off but, hey, they are making it official.
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2021/01/28/general-motors-electric/
> 
> GM has said it would invest $27 billion in electric vehicles and associated 
> products between 2020 and 2025, ... includes refurbishing factories and 
> investing in battery production in conjunction with LG Chem, a South Korean 
> battery maker.
> 
> By late 2025, about 40 percent of the company’s U.S. models will be 
> battery-powered electric vehicles,
> 
> The electric-vehicle industry has grown exponentially in the past decade but 
> still represents less than 2 percent of automobiles sold in the United States.
> 
> The timing of the GM announcement was tied in large part to the election of 
> Joe Biden ... Biden signed an executive order that calls for the federal 
> fleet of approximately 645,000 vehicles to be converted to electric power. He 
> has also vowed to expand charging stations for electric cars, revise and 
> extend electric-vehicle tax credits and tighten fuel economy standards for 
> gas-powered vehicles.
> 
> Volkswagen, for example, is planning to launch almost 70 new electric models 
> in the next 10 years... Ford ... is spending $11.5 billion through 2022 on 
> new EVs. Tesla plans to increase sales of its all-electric fleet.
> 
> 
> << Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: 
> 
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Re: [EVDL] 2035 GM will cease ICE production

[EVDL Administrator via EV]

That's pretty music, but it's just a new verse to an old song.  How loudly 
GM sing it depends greatly on which way the political winds blow.

In 1978, GM promised that by 1980 I'd be able to buy a Chevette EV.  I'm 
still waiting.  Pop quiz - what happened in US politics in 1980?  Who was it 
who ordered the Carter solar panels torn off the White House roof?  I can't 
seem to recall.

The other side of this coin is that most of the rest of the first world 
doesn't have this weird oscillation.  The emphasis they put on reducing 
carbon emissions and promoting renewable energy varies from nation to nation 
and administration to administration, but they seldom have the kind of 
jarring, radical environmentally backward lurches that we get here.  

France and the UK plan to ban ICEV sales by 2040.  in fact I think I read 
recently that the UK is considering advancing that to 2030, and France wants 
at least Paris to be 100% EV by 2030.  

Germany and Netherlands want zero ICEVs on sale, also by 2030.  Germany is 
pushing for this to be an EU-wide policy.   

Norway's aiming for 2025.  Already in 2020, over half the vehicles sold in 
Norway were EVs.  

So if GM wants to keep selling vehicles outside the US, they'd darn well 
better start looking outside our borders, and get serious about EVs, fast. 

David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey

To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my 
offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
 Most people here [in the US] don't want an abrupt reshuffling 
 of everything. That's why we've had only one revolution. It's 
 why we've fought off the metric system all these years, and 
 thank heaven we have.  

  -- Fox anchor Tucker Carlson
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 

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Re: [EVDL] 2035 GM will cease ICE production

[Robert Bruninga via EV]

I find it challenging when people fall back on the "well EV's are only 2%
of production today" while ignoring the *growth* of doubling every year.
That means 2% today. 4% in 2022, 8% in 2023, 16% in 2024, 32% in 2025, 64%
in 2026 and DONE by 2027.  If today's growth rate remains constant.

It wont, but things can grow pretty fast if allowed to.

Bob

On Thu, Jan 28, 2021 at 9:01 PM Peri Hartman via EV 
wrote:

> It's a long way off but, hey, they are making it official.
>
>
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2021/01/28/general-motors-electric/
>
> GM has said it would invest $27 billion in electric vehicles and
> associated products between 2020 and 2025, ... includes refurbishing
> factories and investing in battery production in conjunction with LG
> Chem, a South Korean battery maker.
>
> By late 2025, about 40 percent of the company’s U.S. models will be
> battery-powered electric vehicles,
>
> The electric-vehicle industry has grown exponentially in the past decade
> but still represents less than 2 percent of automobiles sold in the
> United States.
>
> The timing of the GM announcement was tied in large part to the election
> of Joe Biden ... Biden signed an executive order that calls for the
> federal fleet of approximately 645,000 vehicles to be converted to
> electric power. He has also vowed to expand charging stations for
> electric cars, revise and extend electric-vehicle tax credits and
> tighten fuel economy standards for gas-powered vehicles.
>
> Volkswagen, for example, is planning to launch almost 70 new electric
> models in the next 10 years... Ford ... is spending $11.5 billion
> through 2022 on new EVs. Tesla plans to increase sales of its
> all-electric fleet.
>
>
> << Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>
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Re: [EVDL] 2035 GM will cease ICE production

[Glenn Brooks via EV]

Fantastic.  This really is an incredibly fast sea change in society.  More 
Incredible that the very foundations of the fossil fuel cartel are crumbling 
away underneath them - even as they stand up daily and lie about climate  
change impacts and warn against economic change. 

Sent from my iPad

> On Jan 28, 2021, at 6:01 PM, Peri Hartman via EV  wrote:
> 
> It's a long way off but, hey, they are making it official.
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2021/01/28/general-motors-electric/
> 
> GM has said it would invest $27 billion in electric vehicles and associated 
> products between 2020 and 2025, ... includes refurbishing factories and 
> investing in battery production in conjunction with LG Chem, a South Korean 
> battery maker.
> 
> By late 2025, about 40 percent of the company’s U.S. models will be 
> battery-powered electric vehicles,
> 
> The electric-vehicle industry has grown exponentially in the past decade but 
> still represents less than 2 percent of automobiles sold in the United States.
> 
> The timing of the GM announcement was tied in large part to the election of 
> Joe Biden ... Biden signed an executive order that calls for the federal 
> fleet of approximately 645,000 vehicles to be converted to electric power. He 
> has also vowed to expand charging stations for electric cars, revise and 
> extend electric-vehicle tax credits and tighten fuel economy standards for 
> gas-powered vehicles.
> 
> Volkswagen, for example, is planning to launch almost 70 new electric models 
> in the next 10 years... Ford ... is spending $11.5 billion through 2022 on 
> new EVs. Tesla plans to increase sales of its all-electric fleet.
> 
> 
> << Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>
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[EVDL] 2035 GM will cease ICE production

[Peri Hartman via EV]

It's a long way off but, hey, they are making it official.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2021/01/28/general-motors-electric/

GM has said it would invest $27 billion in electric vehicles and 
associated products between 2020 and 2025, ... includes refurbishing 
factories and investing in battery production in conjunction with LG 
Chem, a South Korean battery maker.


By late 2025, about 40 percent of the company’s U.S. models will be 
battery-powered electric vehicles,


The electric-vehicle industry has grown exponentially in the past decade 
but still represents less than 2 percent of automobiles sold in the 
United States.


The timing of the GM announcement was tied in large part to the election 
of Joe Biden ... Biden signed an executive order that calls for the 
federal fleet of approximately 645,000 vehicles to be converted to 
electric power. He has also vowed to expand charging stations for 
electric cars, revise and extend electric-vehicle tax credits and 
tighten fuel economy standards for gas-powered vehicles.


Volkswagen, for example, is planning to launch almost 70 new electric 
models in the next 10 years... Ford ... is spending $11.5 billion 
through 2022 on new EVs. Tesla plans to increase sales of its 
all-electric fleet.



<< Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>
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