subject:"Re\: \[EVDL\] The Tesla conspiracy"

Re: [EVDL] The Tesla conspiracy

2019-08-17 Thread EVDL Administrator via EV

Anyone who says "there's no stopping it" or "there's no going back" hasn't 
been paying attention to politics and business.  :-(

Of course Tesla makes good cars; they got to start with a blank slate, not a 
century of hidebound tradition.  Is there any other production EV that's 
100% new?   Maybe I've missed one, but AFAIK every other production EV uses 
at least some bits of previous ICEVs.  Most are really just EPTO (Electric 
PowerTrain Option) ICEVs -- that is, factory conversions.  The Nissan Leaf 
is mostly a Versa; its cousin the Renault Zoe is mostly a Clio.

It also didn't hurt that Tesla had a billionaire EV enthusiast behind them.

Of course the oil and auto companies don't want Tesla to succeed.  Of course 
they're going to do everything legal, and some things that aren't, to 
destroy Tesla.  (See Tucker for another example of their efforts.)   That's 
not a conspiracy, it's just business as usual.  It's what they do.

A few comments about the production.  Has nobody ever told these guys about 
B-roll?  The constant jump cuts are really annoying and distracting.  That's 
hack work.  Authenticity does not require incompetence, and incompetence 
does not imply authenticity.

If they'd work from a script or at least  notes, instead of winging it, they 
might not need so many of those shoddy edits.

Better yet, they should just WRITE something and post it.  This video clip 
has no reason to exist.  It's a waste of bandwidth.  It doesn't present 
anything visually that really helps get their message across.  I could have 
gotten the same information in 1/3 the time by  reading a blog post instead 
of sitting through their unprepared, unrehearsed prattle. 

At least they don't ramble as badly as Rickard does.  He's completely 
unwatchable.

OK, I'll yield the soapbox to someone else now.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not 
reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my 
email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =


___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] The Tesla conspiracy

2019-08-17 Thread Michael Ross via EV

"It also didn't hurt that Tesla had a billionaire EV enthusiast behind
them."

There's an understatement. Nothing was going to happen without Musk
and Straubel. And there was no billionair-ness when they started. Despite
the unlikeliness of success that still surrounds it, the most important
part and  certain success of Tesla is in a factory near Reno, Nevada. Let's
hope that doesn't disappear even if the EV business languishes.

I wish Tesla would go private somehow. The quarterly earnings business of
the stock market definitely handicaps projects that take a long time to pay
off. Besos makes it happen in house. He considers a 7 year development
timeline to be a protective moat, and it works. He can go full steam ahead
on pie-in-the-sky stuff and when they pull it off the lead time they have
against competition is insurmountable.

On Sat, Aug 17, 2019 at 2:16 PM EVDL Administrator via EV 
wrote:

> Anyone who says "there's no stopping it" or "there's no going back" hasn't
> been paying attention to politics and business.  :-(
>
> Of course Tesla makes good cars; they got to start with a blank slate, not
> a
> century of hidebound tradition.  Is there any other production EV that's
> 100% new?   Maybe I've missed one, but AFAIK every other production EV
> uses
> at least some bits of previous ICEVs.  Most are really just EPTO (Electric
> PowerTrain Option) ICEVs -- that is, factory conversions.  The Nissan Leaf
> is mostly a Versa; its cousin the Renault Zoe is mostly a Clio.
>
> It also didn't hurt that Tesla had a billionaire EV enthusiast behind them.
>
> Of course the oil and auto companies don't want Tesla to succeed.  Of
> course
> they're going to do everything legal, and some things that aren't, to
> destroy Tesla.  (See Tucker for another example of their efforts.)
>  That's
> not a conspiracy, it's just business as usual.  It's what they do.
>
> A few comments about the production.  Has nobody ever told these guys
> about
> B-roll?  The constant jump cuts are really annoying and distracting.
> That's
> hack work.  Authenticity does not require incompetence, and incompetence
> does not imply authenticity.
>
> If they'd work from a script or at least  notes, instead of winging it,
> they
> might not need so many of those shoddy edits.
>
> Better yet, they should just WRITE something and post it.  This video clip
> has no reason to exist.  It's a waste of bandwidth.  It doesn't present
> anything visually that really helps get their message across.  I could
> have
> gotten the same information in 1/3 the time by  reading a blog post
> instead
> of sitting through their unprepared, unrehearsed prattle.
>
> At least they don't ramble as badly as Rickard does.  He's completely
> unwatchable.
>
> OK, I'll yield the soapbox to someone else now.
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not
> reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my
> email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
>
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
>

-- 
Michael E. Ross
(919) 585-6737 Land
(919) 901-2805 Cell and Text
(919) 576-0824  Tablet,
Google Phone and Text
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] The Tesla conspiracy

2019-08-17 Thread Lee Hart via EV


EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:

Anyone who says "there's no stopping it" or "there's no going back" hasn't
been paying attention to politics and business.  :-(


Amen to that. People were saying the same things back in 2000 at the 
peak of the last EV boom cycle. But look at how fast EVs disappeared 
when the political winds changed.


Bob Rice also told about what happened when he and Bob Beaumont started 
selling thousands of CitiCars in the 1970's EV boom. Their parts 
suppliers got the message from the auto companies that "If you sell to 
those guys, you're not selling to us!" This is why they had to use 
tires, batteries, lights, etc. from trailer and boat manufacturers.


Tesla builds great cars. But it's a young company, and they still have a 
lot to learn. They are not yet profitable; so what happens if investors 
tire of Musk's antics, and the company winds up in the hands of one of 
the big oil or auto companies. Remember what happened to the nimh 
batteries when GM and Chevron got hold of them?


The future for EVs in the USA is *far* from certain!

--
Whether we or our politicians know it or not, Nature is party to all
our deals and decisions, and she has more votes, a longer memory,
and a sterner sense of justice than we do. -- Wendell Berry
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] The Tesla conspiracy

2019-08-17 Thread paul dove via EV

Those are not equivalent comparisons. Those cars were toys and GM never wanted 
to build an EV they were forced to by the government. This is a new game just 
like the digital watch or digital cameras they took over.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 17, 2019, at 4:24 PM, Lee Hart via EV  wrote:
> 
> EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:
>> Anyone who says "there's no stopping it" or "there's no going back" hasn't
>> been paying attention to politics and business.  :-(
> 
> Amen to that. People were saying the same things back in 2000 at the peak of 
> the last EV boom cycle. But look at how fast EVs disappeared when the 
> political winds changed.
> 
> Bob Rice also told about what happened when he and Bob Beaumont started 
> selling thousands of CitiCars in the 1970's EV boom. Their parts suppliers 
> got the message from the auto companies that "If you sell to those guys, 
> you're not selling to us!" This is why they had to use tires, batteries, 
> lights, etc. from trailer and boat manufacturers.
> 
> Tesla builds great cars. But it's a young company, and they still have a lot 
> to learn. They are not yet profitable; so what happens if investors tire of 
> Musk's antics, and the company winds up in the hands of one of the big oil or 
> auto companies. Remember what happened to the nimh batteries when GM and 
> Chevron got hold of them?
> 
> The future for EVs in the USA is *far* from certain!
> 
> -- 
> Whether we or our politicians know it or not, Nature is party to all
> our deals and decisions, and she has more votes, a longer memory,
> and a sterner sense of justice than we do. -- Wendell Berry
> --
> Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
> 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] The Tesla conspiracy

2019-08-17 Thread EVDL Administrator via EV

On 17 Aug 2019 at 16:24, Lee Hart via EV wrote:

> look at how fast EVs disappeared when the political winds changed [in
> the early 2000s] ... The future for EVs in the USA is *far* from
> certain! 

And in the early 1980s, too.  Ronald Reagan moved into the White House and 
one of his first actions was to have Jimmy Carter's rooftop solar panels 
torn off and junked.  In the ensuing years, a great deal of EV research, 
especially on batteries, was abandoned before it could be commercialized.  
The scientists behind it were let go.  They and their experience and 
knowledge scattered to the four winds, with some of them giving up on the EV 
world entirely.  

All we learn from history is that history repeats.

I'm fairly confident that EV development and expansion will continue in 
China, and only a little less confident about Europe.  The US -- who knows?

Four EU nations have already said that they plan to reduce, restrict,
or eliminate ICEVs in favor of EVs by 2025, 2030, or 2040.  

Meanwhile, China says they'll ban ICEVs too, but to my knowledge hasn't said 
when.  

GM and the other big automakers are salivating at the potential size of the 
Chinese vehicle market. There's a pretty good chance that if they want in, 
they're going to have to produce EVs, probably in partnership with Chinese 
EV manufacturers.  

You might think that means more EVs for the US, but don't bet on it.  All of 
automakers worldwide have a long history of offering vehicles in other 
countries that they refuse to offer in the US.  Head on down to your local 
VW or Toyota dealer and ask them if they'll sell you an Up or an Aygo.  Go 
ahead, I'll wait.

Nothing anywhere is certain, and the oil companies have a lot of money to 
spend on maintaining the status quo.  If that includes undermining Tesla, it 
shouldn't surprise anyone. That's what big business does.

But then there's that factory that Tesla wants to build in Shanghai.  I 
haven't heard much about that lately; anyone know where it stands?

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not 
reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my 
email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] The Tesla conspiracy

2019-08-18 Thread John Blair via EV

David,

Here is what Gigafactory 3 in China looked like on August 3rd:

https://insideevs.com/news/363439/tesla-gigafactory-3-progress-august-3-2019/ 

It is pretty far along and last I heard, machinery is being installed inside:

"Within five months, Tesla  should be producing 
and selling the Tesla Model 3  from this 
factory.” (from the article).

John
John Blair

> On Aug 17, 2019, at 11:21 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV  > wrote:
> 
> But then there's that factory that Tesla wants to build in Shanghai.  I 
> haven't heard much about that lately; anyone know where it stands?
> 

-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] The Tesla conspiracy

2019-08-18 Thread EVDL Administrator via EV

On 18 Aug 2019 at 0:23, John Blair via EV wrote:

> "Within five months, Tesla  should be producing
> and selling the Tesla Model 3  from this
> factory. (from the article).

Thanks!  That's a smart move for Tesla.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not 
reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my 
email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =


___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] The Tesla conspiracy

2019-08-18 Thread Michael Ross via EV

I see the naming slipping - Gigafactory in Nevada means a battery plant. In
Shanghai it is an automobile manufacturing facility.

Yes, Telsa is very sharp working in China, as long as they don't get
nationalized. Musk is true to his word wanting to keep EVs rolling along.
He will go all in as many times as necessary if history is any indication.
And apparently location is fully open as well. Diversification of politics.
No question about acting up on Chinese internet, can't do it.

On Sun, Aug 18, 2019 at 3:23 AM John Blair via EV  wrote:

> David,
>
> Here is what Gigafactory 3 in China looked like on August 3rd:
>
>
> https://insideevs.com/news/363439/tesla-gigafactory-3-progress-august-3-2019/
> <
> https://insideevs.com/news/363439/tesla-gigafactory-3-progress-august-3-2019/
> >
>
> It is pretty far along and last I heard, machinery is being installed
> inside:
>
> "Within five months, Tesla  should be
> producing and selling the Tesla Model 3 <
> https://insideevs.com/tesla/model-3/> from this factory.” (from the
> article).
>
> John
> John Blair
>
>
> > On Aug 17, 2019, at 11:21 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV <
> ev@lists.evdl.org > wrote:
> >
> > But then there's that factory that Tesla wants to build in Shanghai.  I
> > haven't heard much about that lately; anyone know where it stands?
> >
>
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20190818/e069d3be/attachment.html
> >
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
>

-- 
Michael E. Ross
(919) 585-6737 Land
(919) 901-2805 Cell and Text
(919) 576-0824  Tablet,
Google Phone and Text
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] The Tesla conspiracy

2019-08-18 Thread EVDL Administrator via EV

On 18 Aug 2019 at 9:45, Michael Ross via EV wrote:

> Diversification of politics. No question about acting up on Chinese
> internet, can't do it. 

Yeah, Musk will have to fall in line, and keep his mouth and typing under 
control, if he wants to fill up China with Teslas.  So will GM, Ford, and 
Toyota, if they want to make money there.

It's the proverbial 2-edged sword.  EVs are fairly likely to succeed in 
China because the government there wants them, to clean up their killer air, 
and you don't mess around with Xi Jinping.  But also, you don't mess around 
with Xi Jinping.  And big brother is watching.  

Musk and Barra had better get used to it; that seems to be the way the rest 
of the world is headed, too.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not 
reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my 
email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] The Tesla conspiracy

2019-08-18 Thread Michael Ross via EV

"if he wants to fill up China with Teslas"

Everyone keeps forgetting, (maybe even EM hi'self) The goal is to fill up
the globe with EVs, not necessarily Teslas. He only makes money to make
more EVs. He doesn't even enjoy much of what he's got.and risks it all the
time.  Work as home. Glad its not me.

On Sun, Aug 18, 2019 at 12:18 PM EVDL Administrator via EV <
ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:

> On 18 Aug 2019 at 9:45, Michael Ross via EV wrote:
>
> > Diversification of politics. No question about acting up on Chinese
> > internet, can't do it.
>
> Yeah, Musk will have to fall in line, and keep his mouth and typing under
> control, if he wants to fill up China with Teslas.  So will GM, Ford, and
> Toyota, if they want to make money there.
>
> It's the proverbial 2-edged sword.  EVs are fairly likely to succeed in
> China because the government there wants them, to clean up their killer
> air,
> and you don't mess around with Xi Jinping.  But also, you don't mess
> around
> with Xi Jinping.  And big brother is watching.
>
> Musk and Barra had better get used to it; that seems to be the way the
> rest
> of the world is headed, too.
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not
> reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my
> email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
>
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
>

-- 
Michael E. Ross
(919) 585-6737 Land
(919) 901-2805 Cell and Text
(919) 576-0824  Tablet,
Google Phone and Text
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] The Tesla conspiracy

2019-08-18 Thread Peter Eckhoff via EV

Question: "What happens if the shorters acquire so much stock that they
eventually have a create a presence on the Board of Directors??"

What part of the company stock is currently owned by EV friendly
investors?
What would cause EV friendly invests to lose their percentage?



On Sat, Aug 17, 2019 at 5:19 PM Lee Hart via EV  wrote:

> EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:
> > Anyone who says "there's no stopping it" or "there's no going back"
> hasn't
> > been paying attention to politics and business.  :-(
>
> Amen to that. People were saying the same things back in 2000 at the
> peak of the last EV boom cycle. But look at how fast EVs disappeared
> when the political winds changed.
>
> Bob Rice also told about what happened when he and Bob Beaumont started
> selling thousands of CitiCars in the 1970's EV boom. Their parts
> suppliers got the message from the auto companies that "If you sell to
> those guys, you're not selling to us!" This is why they had to use
> tires, batteries, lights, etc. from trailer and boat manufacturers.
>
> Tesla builds great cars. But it's a young company, and they still have a
> lot to learn. They are not yet profitable; so what happens if investors
> tire of Musk's antics, and the company winds up in the hands of one of
> the big oil or auto companies. Remember what happened to the nimh
> batteries when GM and Chevron got hold of them?
>
> The future for EVs in the USA is *far* from certain!
>
> --
> Whether we or our politicians know it or not, Nature is party to all
> our deals and decisions, and she has more votes, a longer memory,
> and a sterner sense of justice than we do. -- Wendell Berry
> --
> Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] The Tesla conspiracy

2019-08-18 Thread Tom Hudson via EV



On 8/18/2019 8:45 AM, Michael Ross via EV wrote:

I see the naming slipping - Gigafactory in Nevada means a battery plant. In
Shanghai it is an automobile manufacturing facility.


The name is NOT "slipping".  Like the main Gigafactory in Nevada, Gigafactory 3 in China 
will produce battery cells/modules and other items; it just adds cars to that list.  
Presumably, like Gigafactory 1, it will build batteries and motors, and will have the 
added benefit of being the assembly location for the Model 3, unlike Gigafactory 1 in 
Nevada, which has to ship those components to California for final assembly. I always 
thought this was an unfortunate situation, having to ship those critical components 
hundreds of miles to Fremont. There has always been talk about doing actual vehicle 
assembly at Gigafactory 1 at some point -- would sure make sense to do that, to simplify 
the manufacturing logistics, as long as you had the manpower available -- and they keep 
enlarging the thing, so I'd expect to see vehicle assembly there at some point.


For the China factory, Tesla will circumvent any tariffs and provide a product that is 
more appealing to the Chinese car-buying public than a foreign-made vehicle. Should be 
interesting to see what happens there, but it looks like they're on track for their goal 
of starting production later this year.


-Tom

--
Thomas Hudson
http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] The Tesla conspiracy

2019-08-18 Thread Mark Abramowitz via EV

The reason they ship it is because either they planned poorly with not enough 
time for environmental review in California, or they didn’t want to fully 
disclose the environmental impacts of the plant.

Either way, when they tried and failed to get the legislature to exempt them 
from environmental review in California, they built the plant in neighboring 
Nevada. 

- Mark

Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone

> On Aug 18, 2019, at 7:34 PM, Tom Hudson via EV  wrote:
> 
> 
>> On 8/18/2019 8:45 AM, Michael Ross via EV wrote:
>> I see the naming slipping - Gigafactory in Nevada means a battery plant. In
>> Shanghai it is an automobile manufacturing facility.
>> 
>> 
> The name is NOT "slipping".  Like the main Gigafactory in Nevada, Gigafactory 
> 3 in China will produce battery cells/modules and other items; it just adds 
> cars to that list.  Presumably, like Gigafactory 1, it will build batteries 
> and motors, and will have the added benefit of being the assembly location 
> for the Model 3, unlike Gigafactory 1 in Nevada, which has to ship those 
> components to California for final assembly. I always thought this was an 
> unfortunate situation, having to ship those critical components hundreds of 
> miles to Fremont. There has always been talk about doing actual vehicle 
> assembly at Gigafactory 1 at some point -- would sure make sense to do that, 
> to simplify the manufacturing logistics, as long as you had the manpower 
> available -- and they keep enlarging the thing, so I'd expect to see vehicle 
> assembly there at some point.
> 
> For the China factory, Tesla will circumvent any tariffs and provide a 
> product that is more appealing to the Chinese car-buying public than a 
> foreign-made vehicle. Should be interesting to see what happens there, but it 
> looks like they're on track for their goal of starting production later this 
> year.
> 
> -Tom
> 
> -- 
> Thomas Hudson
> http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
> http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects
> 
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
> 
> 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] The Tesla conspiracy

2019-08-19 Thread paul dove via EV

The SEC were put up to charging Elon with manipulating the market to hide the 
fact that the oil companies are shorting his stock. Don’t you remember he 
wanted to go private because of all the shorts. They wanted to shut him up. 
They are not going to charge the oil companies with manipulation.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 18, 2019, at 11:18 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV  
> wrote:
> 
>> On 18 Aug 2019 at 9:45, Michael Ross via EV wrote:
>> 
>> Diversification of politics. No question about acting up on Chinese
>> internet, can't do it. 
> 
> Yeah, Musk will have to fall in line, and keep his mouth and typing under 
> control, if he wants to fill up China with Teslas.  So will GM, Ford, and 
> Toyota, if they want to make money there.
> 
> It's the proverbial 2-edged sword.  EVs are fairly likely to succeed in 
> China because the government there wants them, to clean up their killer air, 
> and you don't mess around with Xi Jinping.  But also, you don't mess around 
> with Xi Jinping.  And big brother is watching.  
> 
> Musk and Barra had better get used to it; that seems to be the way the rest 
> of the world is headed, too.
> 
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
> 
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
> Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not 
> reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my 
> email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> 
> 
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
> 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] The Tesla conspiracy

2019-08-19 Thread paul dove via EV

The Giga factory in Nevada makes cars too. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 18, 2019, at 8:45 AM, Michael Ross via EV  wrote:
> 
> I see the naming slipping - Gigafactory in Nevada means a battery plant. In
> Shanghai it is an automobile manufacturing facility.
> 
> Yes, Telsa is very sharp working in China, as long as they don't get
> nationalized. Musk is true to his word wanting to keep EVs rolling along.
> He will go all in as many times as necessary if history is any indication.
> And apparently location is fully open as well. Diversification of politics.
> No question about acting up on Chinese internet, can't do it.
> 
>> On Sun, Aug 18, 2019 at 3:23 AM John Blair via EV  wrote:
>> 
>> David,
>> 
>> Here is what Gigafactory 3 in China looked like on August 3rd:
>> 
>> 
>> https://insideevs.com/news/363439/tesla-gigafactory-3-progress-august-3-2019/
>> <
>> https://insideevs.com/news/363439/tesla-gigafactory-3-progress-august-3-2019/
>>> 
>> 
>> It is pretty far along and last I heard, machinery is being installed
>> inside:
>> 
>> "Within five months, Tesla  should be
>> producing and selling the Tesla Model 3 <
>> https://insideevs.com/tesla/model-3/> from this factory.” (from the
>> article).
>> 
>> John
>> John Blair
>> 
>> 
>>> On Aug 17, 2019, at 11:21 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV <
>> ev@lists.evdl.org > wrote:
>>> 
>>> But then there's that factory that Tesla wants to build in Shanghai.  I
>>> haven't heard much about that lately; anyone know where it stands?
>>> 
>> 
>> -- next part --
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL: <
>> http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20190818/e069d3be/attachment.html
>>> 
>> ___
>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>> 
>> 
> 
> -- 
> Michael E. Ross
> (919) 585-6737 Land
> (919) 901-2805 Cell and Text
> (919) 576-0824  Tablet,
> Google Phone and Text
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: 
> 
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
> 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] The Tesla conspiracy

2019-08-19 Thread Mark Abramowitz via EV

Maybe.

According to the L.A. Times article cited in that article, there were five 
finalists, including California.

The rest of the article also seems to confirm my statement. It was likely the 
L.A. Times article that was the basis for my opinion.

But while I don’t consider your source to be always accurate, it is possible 
that there was more going on, and that you are correct.

But for now, I’ll stick with the L.A. Times version of the events.



- Mark

Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone

> On Aug 19, 2019, at 4:48 AM, paul dove  wrote:
> 
> I believe you got it backwards.
> 
> California was never on the list so they were going to lower environmental 
> rules to lure Tesla back.
> https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1093814_tesla-gigafactory-ca-could-waive-environmental-rules-to-get-it-report
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Aug 18, 2019, at 11:47 PM, Mark Abramowitz via EV  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> The reason they ship it is because either they planned poorly with not 
>> enough time for environmental review in California, or they didn’t want to 
>> fully disclose the environmental impacts of the plant.
>> 
>> Either way, when they tried and failed to get the legislature to exempt them 
>> from environmental review in California, they built the plant in neighboring 
>> Nevada. 
>> 
>> - Mark
>> 
>> Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone
>> 
>>> On Aug 18, 2019, at 7:34 PM, Tom Hudson via EV  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
 On 8/18/2019 8:45 AM, Michael Ross via EV wrote:
 I see the naming slipping - Gigafactory in Nevada means a battery plant. In
 Shanghai it is an automobile manufacturing facility.
 
 
>>> The name is NOT "slipping".  Like the main Gigafactory in Nevada, 
>>> Gigafactory 3 in China will produce battery cells/modules and other items; 
>>> it just adds cars to that list.  Presumably, like Gigafactory 1, it will 
>>> build batteries and motors, and will have the added benefit of being the 
>>> assembly location for the Model 3, unlike Gigafactory 1 in Nevada, which 
>>> has to ship those components to California for final assembly. I always 
>>> thought this was an unfortunate situation, having to ship those critical 
>>> components hundreds of miles to Fremont. There has always been talk about 
>>> doing actual vehicle assembly at Gigafactory 1 at some point -- would sure 
>>> make sense to do that, to simplify the manufacturing logistics, as long as 
>>> you had the manpower available -- and they keep enlarging the thing, so I'd 
>>> expect to see vehicle assembly there at some point.
>>> 
>>> For the China factory, Tesla will circumvent any tariffs and provide a 
>>> product that is more appealing to the Chinese car-buying public than a 
>>> foreign-made vehicle. Should be interesting to see what happens there, but 
>>> it looks like they're on track for their goal of starting production later 
>>> this year.
>>> 
>>> -Tom
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Thomas Hudson
>>> http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
>>> http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>> 
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] The Tesla conspiracy

2019-08-19 Thread paul dove via EV

They only float 75% of the shares. It is rare to go over 50% short of the float 
shares. Right now it’s around 28% shorts on the float.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 18, 2019, at 1:56 PM, Peter Eckhoff via EV  wrote:
> 
> Question: "What happens if the shorters acquire so much stock that they
> eventually have a create a presence on the Board of Directors??"
> 
> What part of the company stock is currently owned by EV friendly
> investors?
> What would cause EV friendly invests to lose their percentage?
> 
> 
> 
>> On Sat, Aug 17, 2019 at 5:19 PM Lee Hart via EV  wrote:
>> 
>> EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:
>>> Anyone who says "there's no stopping it" or "there's no going back"
>> hasn't
>>> been paying attention to politics and business.  :-(
>> 
>> Amen to that. People were saying the same things back in 2000 at the
>> peak of the last EV boom cycle. But look at how fast EVs disappeared
>> when the political winds changed.
>> 
>> Bob Rice also told about what happened when he and Bob Beaumont started
>> selling thousands of CitiCars in the 1970's EV boom. Their parts
>> suppliers got the message from the auto companies that "If you sell to
>> those guys, you're not selling to us!" This is why they had to use
>> tires, batteries, lights, etc. from trailer and boat manufacturers.
>> 
>> Tesla builds great cars. But it's a young company, and they still have a
>> lot to learn. They are not yet profitable; so what happens if investors
>> tire of Musk's antics, and the company winds up in the hands of one of
>> the big oil or auto companies. Remember what happened to the nimh
>> batteries when GM and Chevron got hold of them?
>> 
>> The future for EVs in the USA is *far* from certain!
>> 
>> --
>> Whether we or our politicians know it or not, Nature is party to all
>> our deals and decisions, and she has more votes, a longer memory,
>> and a sterner sense of justice than we do. -- Wendell Berry
>> --
>> Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
>> ___
>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>> 
>> 
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: 
> 
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
> 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] The Tesla conspiracy

2019-08-19 Thread Mark Abramowitz via EV

Yes, it does say that. Perhaps they were preparing it for something else no 
matter the location of the Gigafactory, because the Tesla spokesperson 
indicated that it still hadn’t been decided, and was between five states.

““Timing for the gigafactory is very important,” Tesla spokesman Simon Sproule 
said Monday. “So all five states in the running for the gigafactory need to 
demonstrate, among other factors, that they can help us deliver the factory on 
time.””

- Mark

Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone

> On Aug 19, 2019, at 8:40 AM, paul dove  wrote:
> 
> The LA Times article linked on that site says nothing but hopes from the 
> Governor about Tesla locating in California. It actually says they are 
> already preparing a site in Reno.
> 
> 
> On Monday, August 19, 2019, 10:10:29 AM CDT, Mark Abramowitz 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Maybe.
> 
> According to the L.A. Times article cited in that article, there were five 
> finalists, including California.
> 
> The rest of the article also seems to confirm my statement. It was likely the 
> L.A. Times article that was the basis for my opinion.
> 
> But while I don’t consider your source to be always accurate, it is possible 
> that there was more going on, and that you are correct.
> 
> But for now, I’ll stick with the L.A. Times version of the events.
> 
> 
> 
> - Mark
> 
> Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone
> 
>> On Aug 19, 2019, at 4:48 AM, paul dove  wrote:
>> 
> 
> I believe you got it backwards.
> 
> California was never on the list so they were going to lower environmental 
> rules to lure Tesla back.
> https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1093814_tesla-gigafactory-ca-could-waive-environmental-rules-to-get-it-report
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Aug 18, 2019, at 11:47 PM, Mark Abramowitz via EV  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> The reason they ship it is because either they planned poorly with not 
>> enough time for environmental review in California, or they didn’t want to 
>> fully disclose the environmental impacts of the plant.
>> 
>> Either way, when they tried and failed to get the legislature to exempt them 
>> from environmental review in California, they built the plant in neighboring 
>> Nevada. 
>> 
>> - Mark
>> 
>> Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone
>> 
>>> On Aug 18, 2019, at 7:34 PM, Tom Hudson via EV  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
 On 8/18/2019 8:45 AM, Michael Ross via EV wrote:
 I see the naming slipping - Gigafactory in Nevada means a battery plant. In
 Shanghai it is an automobile manufacturing facility.
 
 
>>> The name is NOT "slipping".  Like the main Gigafactory in Nevada, 
>>> Gigafactory 3 in China will produce battery cells/modules and other items; 
>>> it just adds cars to that list.  Presumably, like Gigafactory 1, it will 
>>> build batteries and motors, and will have the added benefit of being the 
>>> assembly location for the Model 3, unlike Gigafactory 1 in Nevada, which 
>>> has to ship those components to California for final assembly. I always 
>>> thought this was an unfortunate situation, having to ship those critical 
>>> components hundreds of miles to Fremont. There has always been talk about 
>>> doing actual vehicle assembly at Gigafactory 1 at some point -- would sure 
>>> make sense to do that, to simplify the manufacturing logistics, as long as 
>>> you had the manpower available -- and they keep enlarging the thing, so I'd 
>>> expect to see vehicle assembly there at some point.
>>> 
>>> For the China factory, Tesla will circumvent any tariffs and provide a 
>>> product that is more appealing to the Chinese car-buying public than a 
>>> foreign-made vehicle. Should be interesting to see what happens there, but 
>>> it looks like they're on track for their goal of starting production later 
>>> this year.
>>> 
>>> -Tom
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Thomas Hudson
>>> http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
>>> http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>> 
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] The Tesla conspiracy

2019-08-19 Thread paul dove via EV

The LA Times article linked on that site says nothing but hopes from the
Governor about Tesla locating in California. It actually says they are already
preparing a site in Reno.

On Monday, August 19, 2019, 10:10:29 AM CDT, Mark Abramowitz
wrote:

Maybe.
According to the L.A. Times article cited in that article, there were five
finalists, including California.
The rest of the article also seems to confirm my statement. It was likely the
L.A. Times article that was the basis for my opinion.
But while I don’t consider your source to be always accurate, it is possible
that there was more going on, and that you are correct.
But for now, I’ll stick with the L.A. Times version of the events.

- Mark
Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone
On Aug 19, 2019, at 4:48 AM, paul dove wrote:

I believe you got it backwards.
California was never on the list so they were going to lower environmental
rules to lure Tesla
back.https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1093814_tesla-gigafactory-ca-could-waive-environmental-rules-to-get-it-report

Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 18, 2019, at 11:47 PM, Mark Abramowitz via EV wrote:

The reason they ship it is because either they planned poorly with not enough
time for environmental review in California, or they didn’t want to fully
disclose the environmental impacts of the plant.

Either way, when they tried and failed to get the legislature to exempt them
from environmental review in California, they built the plant in neighboring
Nevada.

- Mark

Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone

On Aug 18, 2019, at 7:34 PM, Tom Hudson via EV wrote:

On 8/18/2019 8:45 AM, Michael Ross via EV wrote:

I see the naming slipping - Gigafactory in Nevada means a battery plant. In

Shanghai it is an automobile manufacturing facility.

The name is NOT "slipping". Like the main Gigafactory in Nevada, Gigafactory 3
in China will produce battery cells/modules and other items; it just adds cars
to that list. Presumably, like Gigafactory 1, it will build batteries and
motors, and will have the added benefit of being the assembly location for the
Model 3, unlike Gigafactory 1 in Nevada, which has to ship those components to
California for final assembly. I always thought this was an unfortunate
situation, having to ship those critical components hundreds of miles to
Fremont. There has always been talk about doing actual vehicle assembly at
Gigafactory 1 at some point -- would sure make sense to do that, to simplify
the manufacturing logistics, as long as you had the manpower available -- and
they keep enlarging the thing, so I'd expect to see vehicle assembly there at
some point.

For the China factory, Tesla will circumvent any tariffs and provide a product
that is more appealing to the Chinese car-buying public than a foreign-made
vehicle. Should be interesting to see what happens there, but it looks like
they're on track for their goal of starting production later this year.

-Tom

Thomas Hudson

http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More

http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects

___

UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub

http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org

Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] The Tesla conspiracy

2019-08-19 Thread paul dove via EV

I believe you got it backwards.

California was never on the list so they were going to lower environmental 
rules to lure Tesla back.
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1093814_tesla-gigafactory-ca-could-waive-environmental-rules-to-get-it-report


Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 18, 2019, at 11:47 PM, Mark Abramowitz via EV  
> wrote:
> 
> The reason they ship it is because either they planned poorly with not enough 
> time for environmental review in California, or they didn’t want to fully 
> disclose the environmental impacts of the plant.
> 
> Either way, when they tried and failed to get the legislature to exempt them 
> from environmental review in California, they built the plant in neighboring 
> Nevada. 
> 
> - Mark
> 
> Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone
> 
>> On Aug 18, 2019, at 7:34 PM, Tom Hudson via EV  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> On 8/18/2019 8:45 AM, Michael Ross via EV wrote:
>>> I see the naming slipping - Gigafactory in Nevada means a battery plant. In
>>> Shanghai it is an automobile manufacturing facility.
>>> 
>>> 
>> The name is NOT "slipping".  Like the main Gigafactory in Nevada, 
>> Gigafactory 3 in China will produce battery cells/modules and other items; 
>> it just adds cars to that list.  Presumably, like Gigafactory 1, it will 
>> build batteries and motors, and will have the added benefit of being the 
>> assembly location for the Model 3, unlike Gigafactory 1 in Nevada, which has 
>> to ship those components to California for final assembly. I always thought 
>> this was an unfortunate situation, having to ship those critical components 
>> hundreds of miles to Fremont. There has always been talk about doing actual 
>> vehicle assembly at Gigafactory 1 at some point -- would sure make sense to 
>> do that, to simplify the manufacturing logistics, as long as you had the 
>> manpower available -- and they keep enlarging the thing, so I'd expect to 
>> see vehicle assembly there at some point.
>> 
>> For the China factory, Tesla will circumvent any tariffs and provide a 
>> product that is more appealing to the Chinese car-buying public than a 
>> foreign-made vehicle. Should be interesting to see what happens there, but 
>> it looks like they're on track for their goal of starting production later 
>> this year.
>> 
>> -Tom
>> 
>> -- 
>> Thomas Hudson
>> http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
>> http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects
>> 
>> ___
>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>> 
>> 
> 
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
> 
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] The Tesla conspiracy

2019-08-19 Thread Mark Abramowitz via EV

What evidence of this is there?

- Mark

Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone

> On Aug 19, 2019, at 3:48 AM, paul dove via EV  wrote:
> 
> The SEC were put up to charging Elon with manipulating the market to hide the 
> fact that the oil companies are shorting his stock. Don’t you remember he 
> wanted to go private because of all the shorts. They wanted to shut him up. 
> They are not going to charge the oil companies with manipulation.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>>> On Aug 18, 2019, at 11:18 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> On 18 Aug 2019 at 9:45, Michael Ross via EV wrote:
>>> 
>>> Diversification of politics. No question about acting up on Chinese
>>> internet, can't do it. 
>> 
>> Yeah, Musk will have to fall in line, and keep his mouth and typing under 
>> control, if he wants to fill up China with Teslas.  So will GM, Ford, and 
>> Toyota, if they want to make money there.
>> 
>> It's the proverbial 2-edged sword.  EVs are fairly likely to succeed in 
>> China because the government there wants them, to clean up their killer air, 
>> and you don't mess around with Xi Jinping.  But also, you don't mess around 
>> with Xi Jinping.  And big brother is watching.  
>> 
>> Musk and Barra had better get used to it; that seems to be the way the rest 
>> of the world is headed, too.
>> 
>> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
>> EVDL Administrator
>> 
>> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>> EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
>> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
>> Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not 
>> reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my 
>> email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
>> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>> 
> 
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
> 
> 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] The Tesla conspiracy

2019-08-19 Thread paul dove via EV

Tesla will likely produce its upcoming Model Y crossover SUV at its Gigafactory 
in Reno, Nevada, the automaker said on Wednesday.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 18, 2019, at 9:34 PM, Tom Hudson via EV  wrote:
> 
> 
>> On 8/18/2019 8:45 AM, Michael Ross via EV wrote:
>> I see the naming slipping - Gigafactory in Nevada means a battery plant. In
>> Shanghai it is an automobile manufacturing facility.
>> 
>> 
> The name is NOT "slipping".  Like the main Gigafactory in Nevada, Gigafactory 
> 3 in China will produce battery cells/modules and other items; it just adds 
> cars to that list.  Presumably, like Gigafactory 1, it will build batteries 
> and motors, and will have the added benefit of being the assembly location 
> for the Model 3, unlike Gigafactory 1 in Nevada, which has to ship those 
> components to California for final assembly. I always thought this was an 
> unfortunate situation, having to ship those critical components hundreds of 
> miles to Fremont. There has always been talk about doing actual vehicle 
> assembly at Gigafactory 1 at some point -- would sure make sense to do that, 
> to simplify the manufacturing logistics, as long as you had the manpower 
> available -- and they keep enlarging the thing, so I'd expect to see vehicle 
> assembly there at some point.
> 
> For the China factory, Tesla will circumvent any tariffs and provide a 
> product that is more appealing to the Chinese car-buying public than a 
> foreign-made vehicle. Should be interesting to see what happens there, but it 
> looks like they're on track for their goal of starting production later this 
> year.
> 
> -Tom
> 
> -- 
> Thomas Hudson
> http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
> http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects
> 
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
> 
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] The Tesla conspiracy

2019-08-19 Thread Mark Abramowitz via EV

Those four states plus California make the five that the spokesperson referred 
to. If not California, what’s the fifth state?

Even your quote of Musk of Musk shows California as competing.

What am I missing?

- Mark

Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone

> On Aug 19, 2019, at 10:29 AM, paul dove  wrote:
> 
> That does not say California. 
> 
> The Brown administration is hustling to compete with four other states — 
> Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas — for what Tesla Chief Executive Elon 
> Musk calls his “gigafactory.” Musk has described California as a “long shot” 
> for snagging the proposed plant.
> 
> On Monday, August 19, 2019, 10:51:03 AM CDT, Mark Abramowitz 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Yes, it does say that. Perhaps they were preparing it for something else no 
> matter the location of the Gigafactory, because the Tesla spokesperson 
> indicated that it still hadn’t been decided, and was between five states.
> 
> ““Timing for the gigafactory is very important,” Tesla spokesman Simon 
> Sproule said Monday. “So all five states in the running for the gigafactory 
> need to demonstrate, among other factors, that they can help us deliver the 
> factory on time.””
> 
> - Mark
> 
> Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone
> 
>> On Aug 19, 2019, at 8:40 AM, paul dove  wrote:
>> 
>> The LA Times article linked on that site says nothing but hopes from the 
>> Governor about Tesla locating in California. It actually says they are 
>> already preparing a site in Reno.
>> 
>> 
>> On Monday, August 19, 2019, 10:10:29 AM CDT, Mark Abramowitz 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Maybe.
>> 
>> According to the L.A. Times article cited in that article, there were five 
>> finalists, including California.
>> 
>> The rest of the article also seems to confirm my statement. It was likely 
>> the L.A. Times article that was the basis for my opinion.
>> 
>> But while I don’t consider your source to be always accurate, it is possible 
>> that there was more going on, and that you are correct.
>> 
>> But for now, I’ll stick with the L.A. Times version of the events.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> - Mark
>> 
>> Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone
>> 
>>> On Aug 19, 2019, at 4:48 AM, paul dove  wrote:
>>> 
>> 
>> I believe you got it backwards.
>> 
>> California was never on the list so they were going to lower environmental 
>> rules to lure Tesla back.
>> https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1093814_tesla-gigafactory-ca-could-waive-environmental-rules-to-get-it-report
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Aug 18, 2019, at 11:47 PM, Mark Abramowitz via EV  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> The reason they ship it is because either they planned poorly with not 
>>> enough time for environmental review in California, or they didn’t want to 
>>> fully disclose the environmental impacts of the plant.
>>> 
>>> Either way, when they tried and failed to get the legislature to exempt 
>>> them from environmental review in California, they built the plant in 
>>> neighboring Nevada. 
>>> 
>>> - Mark
>>> 
>>> Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone
>>> 
 On Aug 18, 2019, at 7:34 PM, Tom Hudson via EV  wrote:
 
 
> On 8/18/2019 8:45 AM, Michael Ross via EV wrote:
> I see the naming slipping - Gigafactory in Nevada means a battery plant. 
> In
> Shanghai it is an automobile manufacturing facility.
> 
> 
 The name is NOT "slipping".  Like the main Gigafactory in Nevada, 
 Gigafactory 3 in China will produce battery cells/modules and other items; 
 it just adds cars to that list.  Presumably, like Gigafactory 1, it will 
 build batteries and motors, and will have the added benefit of being the 
 assembly location for the Model 3, unlike Gigafactory 1 in Nevada, which 
 has to ship those components to California for final assembly. I always 
 thought this was an unfortunate situation, having to ship those critical 
 components hundreds of miles to Fremont. There has always been talk about 
 doing actual vehicle assembly at Gigafactory 1 at some point -- would sure 
 make sense to do that, to simplify the manufacturing logistics, as long as 
 you had the manpower available -- and they keep enlarging the thing, so 
 I'd expect to see vehicle assembly there at some point.
 
 For the China factory, Tesla will circumvent any tariffs and provide a 
 product that is more appealing to the Chinese car-buying public than a 
 foreign-made vehicle. Should be interesting to see what happens there, but 
 it looks like they're on track for their goal of starting production later 
 this year.
 
 -Tom
 
 -- 
 Thomas Hudson
 http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
 http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects
 
 ___
 UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
 http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
 Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA 
 (http://groups.yahoo.com/

Re: [EVDL] The Tesla conspiracy

2019-08-19 Thread paul dove via EV

That does not say California.

The Brown administration is hustling to compete with four other states —
Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas — for what Tesla Chief Executive Elon
Musk calls his “gigafactory.” Musk has described California as a “long shot”
for snagging the proposed plant.

On Monday, August 19, 2019, 10:51:03 AM CDT, Mark Abramowitz
wrote:

Yes, it does say that. Perhaps they were preparing it for something else no
matter the location of the Gigafactory, because the Tesla spokesperson
indicated that it still hadn’t been decided, and was between five states.
““Timing for the gigafactory is very important,” Tesla spokesman Simon Sproule
said Monday. “So all five states in the running for the gigafactory need to
demonstrate, among other factors, that they can help us deliver the factory on
time.””

- Mark
Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone
On Aug 19, 2019, at 8:40 AM, paul dove wrote:

The LA Times article linked on that site says nothing but hopes from the
Governor about Tesla locating in California. It actually says they are already
preparing a site in Reno.

On Monday, August 19, 2019, 10:10:29 AM CDT, Mark Abramowitz
wrote:

- Mark
Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone
On Aug 19, 2019, at 4:48 AM, paul dove wrote:

Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 18, 2019, at 11:47 PM, Mark Abramowitz via EV wrote:

Either way, when they tried and failed to get the legislature to exempt them
from environmental review in California, they built the plant in neighboring
Nevada.

- Mark

Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone

On Aug 18, 2019, at 7:34 PM, Tom Hudson via EV wrote:

On 8/18/2019 8:45 AM, Michael Ross via EV wrote:

I see the naming slipping - Gigafactory in Nevada means a battery plant. In

Shanghai it is an automobile manufacturing facility.

-Tom

Thomas Hudson

http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More

http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects

___

UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub

http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org

Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] The Tesla conspiracy

2019-08-19 Thread paul dove via EV

You are missing what I said. Four states were in the running and California
threw their own hat in the plate offering reduction of environmental laws in
order to be considered. Elon said slim chance.

On Monday, August 19, 2019, 12:36:39 PM CDT, Mark Abramowitz
wrote:

Those four states plus California make the five that the spokesperson referred
to. If not California, what’s the fifth state?
Even your quote of Musk of Musk shows California as competing.
What am I missing?

- Mark
Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone
On Aug 19, 2019, at 10:29 AM, paul dove wrote:

That does not say California.

On Monday, August 19, 2019, 10:51:03 AM CDT, Mark Abramowitz
wrote:

- Mark
Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone
On Aug 19, 2019, at 8:40 AM, paul dove wrote:

The LA Times article linked on that site says nothing but hopes from the
Governor about Tesla locating in California. It actually says they are already
preparing a site in Reno.

On Monday, August 19, 2019, 10:10:29 AM CDT, Mark Abramowitz
wrote:

- Mark
Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone
On Aug 19, 2019, at 4:48 AM, paul dove wrote:

Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 18, 2019, at 11:47 PM, Mark Abramowitz via EV wrote:

Either way, when they tried and failed to get the legislature to exempt them
from environmental review in California, they built the plant in neighboring
Nevada.

- Mark

Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone

On Aug 18, 2019, at 7:34 PM, Tom Hudson via EV wrote:

On 8/18/2019 8:45 AM, Michael Ross via EV wrote:

I see the naming slipping - Gigafactory in Nevada means a battery plant. In

Shanghai it is an automobile manufacturing facility.

-Tom

Thomas Hudson

http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More

http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects

___

UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub

http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org

Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/

Re: [EVDL] The Tesla conspiracy

2019-08-19 Thread Mark Abramowitz via EV

Ok, so go back to what I said earlier:

Maybe.

The reputable source said five, not four.

And as I said, they may have been (and likely were) other things going on.

- Mark

Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone

> On Aug 19, 2019, at 10:41 AM, paul dove  wrote:
> 
> You are missing what I said. Four states were in the running and California 
> threw their own hat in the plate offering reduction of environmental laws in 
> order to be considered. Elon said slim chance.
> 
> 
> On Monday, August 19, 2019, 12:36:39 PM CDT, Mark Abramowitz 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Those four states plus California make the five that the spokesperson 
> referred to. If not California, what’s the fifth state?
> 
> Even your quote of Musk of Musk shows California as competing.
> 
> What am I missing?
> 
> - Mark
> 
> Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone
> 
>> On Aug 19, 2019, at 10:29 AM, paul dove  wrote:
>> 
>> That does not say California. 
>> 
>> The Brown administration is hustling to compete with four other states — 
>> Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas — for what Tesla Chief Executive Elon 
>> Musk calls his “gigafactory.” Musk has described California as a “long shot” 
>> for snagging the proposed plant.
>> 
>> On Monday, August 19, 2019, 10:51:03 AM CDT, Mark Abramowitz 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Yes, it does say that. Perhaps they were preparing it for something else no 
>> matter the location of the Gigafactory, because the Tesla spokesperson 
>> indicated that it still hadn’t been decided, and was between five states.
>> 
>> ““Timing for the gigafactory is very important,” Tesla spokesman Simon 
>> Sproule said Monday. “So all five states in the running for the gigafactory 
>> need to demonstrate, among other factors, that they can help us deliver the 
>> factory on time.””
>> 
>> - Mark
>> 
>> Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone
>> 
>>> On Aug 19, 2019, at 8:40 AM, paul dove  wrote:
>>> 
>>> The LA Times article linked on that site says nothing but hopes from the 
>>> Governor about Tesla locating in California. It actually says they are 
>>> already preparing a site in Reno.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Monday, August 19, 2019, 10:10:29 AM CDT, Mark Abramowitz 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Maybe.
>>> 
>>> According to the L.A. Times article cited in that article, there were five 
>>> finalists, including California.
>>> 
>>> The rest of the article also seems to confirm my statement. It was likely 
>>> the L.A. Times article that was the basis for my opinion.
>>> 
>>> But while I don’t consider your source to be always accurate, it is 
>>> possible that there was more going on, and that you are correct.
>>> 
>>> But for now, I’ll stick with the L.A. Times version of the events.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> - Mark
>>> 
>>> Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone
>>> 
 On Aug 19, 2019, at 4:48 AM, paul dove  wrote:
 
>>> 
>>> I believe you got it backwards.
>>> 
>>> California was never on the list so they were going to lower environmental 
>>> rules to lure Tesla back.
>>> https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1093814_tesla-gigafactory-ca-could-waive-environmental-rules-to-get-it-report
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Aug 18, 2019, at 11:47 PM, Mark Abramowitz via EV  
 wrote:
 
 The reason they ship it is because either they planned poorly with not 
 enough time for environmental review in California, or they didn’t want to 
 fully disclose the environmental impacts of the plant.
 
 Either way, when they tried and failed to get the legislature to exempt 
 them from environmental review in California, they built the plant in 
 neighboring Nevada. 
 
 - Mark
 
 Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone
 
> On Aug 18, 2019, at 7:34 PM, Tom Hudson via EV  wrote:
> 
> 
>> On 8/18/2019 8:45 AM, Michael Ross via EV wrote:
>> I see the naming slipping - Gigafactory in Nevada means a battery plant. 
>> In
>> Shanghai it is an automobile manufacturing facility.
>> 
>> 
> The name is NOT "slipping".  Like the main Gigafactory in Nevada, 
> Gigafactory 3 in China will produce battery cells/modules and other 
> items; it just adds cars to that list.  Presumably, like Gigafactory 1, 
> it will build batteries and motors, and will have the added benefit of 
> being the assembly location for the Model 3, unlike Gigafactory 1 in 
> Nevada, which has to ship those components to California for final 
> assembly. I always thought this was an unfortunate situation, having to 
> ship those critical components hundreds of miles to Fremont. There has 
> always been talk about doing actual vehicle assembly at Gigafactory 1 at 
> some point -- would sure make sense to do that, to simplify the 
> manufacturing logistics, as long as you had the manpower available -- and 
> they keep enlarging the thing, so I'd expect to see vehicle assembly 
> there at some point.
> 
> For the China factory, Tesla will c

Re: [EVDL] The Tesla conspiracy

2019-08-19 Thread Michael Ross via EV

Musk simply broke the rules when he falsely claimed to have a buyer.  The
SEC doesn't have to be in some conspiracy to react very strongly to that
kind of public commentary. When he said that the stock price went haywire
and some people lost money reacting to it. The SEC exists at least in part
to keep companies from blabbing in this way. It was a bad move on Musk's
part and the Tesla BOD needed emit some sort of corporate governance to
stop it.

That doesn't mean there aren't more closely kept shenanigans going on.

The shorting could be what is proposed, or it could simply be people who
like shorting as a way to make money using the controversy and volatility
of Telsa to try and make money.

I also get it that Musk must wish he could raise money without having to
submit quarterly guidance about Tesla financial activities. For projects
that are very experimental, and where profitability is counter to fully
committing to research and development, quarterly guidance ends up being an
impediment. It supports ownership by people who are not really committed to
the long game. That is what give Musk a rash. Add in sleep deprivation and
you get loose lips.

SpaceX is in far better situation because it is privately held. SpaceX
ownership has a better understanding, and gets  their updates up close and
personal. SpaceX can say, "leave us alone right now we are busy," whereas
Tesla has to follow the rules for publicly traded companies. With the SEC
as the watchdog.

-Mike

On Mon, Aug 19, 2019 at 1:37 PM Mark Abramowitz via EV 
wrote:

> What evidence of this is there?
>
> - Mark
>

-- 
Michael E. Ross
(919) 585-6737 Land
(919) 901-2805 Cell and Text
(919) 576-0824  Tablet,
Google Phone and Text
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] The Tesla conspiracy

2019-08-19 Thread Mark Abramowitz via EV

Exactly!

- Mark

Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone

> On Aug 19, 2019, at 4:17 PM, Michael Ross via EV  wrote:
> 
> Musk simply broke the rules when he falsely claimed to have a buyer.  The
> SEC doesn't have to be in some conspiracy to react very strongly to that
> kind of public commentary. When he said that the stock price went haywire
> and some people lost money reacting to it. The SEC exists at least in part
> to keep companies from blabbing in this way. It was a bad move on Musk's
> part and the Tesla BOD needed emit some sort of corporate governance to
> stop it.
> 
> That doesn't mean there aren't more closely kept shenanigans going on.
> 
> The shorting could be what is proposed, or it could simply be people who
> like shorting as a way to make money using the controversy and volatility
> of Telsa to try and make money.
> 
> I also get it that Musk must wish he could raise money without having to
> submit quarterly guidance about Tesla financial activities. For projects
> that are very experimental, and where profitability is counter to fully
> committing to research and development, quarterly guidance ends up being an
> impediment. It supports ownership by people who are not really committed to
> the long game. That is what give Musk a rash. Add in sleep deprivation and
> you get loose lips.
> 
> SpaceX is in far better situation because it is privately held. SpaceX
> ownership has a better understanding, and gets  their updates up close and
> personal. SpaceX can say, "leave us alone right now we are busy," whereas
> Tesla has to follow the rules for publicly traded companies. With the SEC
> as the watchdog.
> 
> -Mike
> 
> On Mon, Aug 19, 2019 at 1:37 PM Mark Abramowitz via EV 
> wrote:
> 
>> What evidence of this is there?
>> 
>> - Mark
>> 
> 
> -- 
> Michael E. Ross
> (919) 585-6737 Land
> (919) 901-2805 Cell and Text
> (919) 576-0824  Tablet,
> Google Phone and Text
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: 
> 
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
> 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] The Tesla conspiracy

2019-08-20 Thread paul dove via EV

Nothing is inherently wrong with short selling, which is permissible under the 
regulations of the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC). However, the 
'short and distort' type of short seller uses misinformation and a bear market 
to manipulate stocks. S&D is illegal, as is its counterpart, the pump and dump, 
which is mainly used in a bull market.  

The Saudi prince HEAD of a national investment fund DEVOTED to alternate energy 
investments is LOBBYING Elon Musk to take the company private. He is DEMANDING 
it. And he has a hundred billion to spend on the project. What part of “funding 
secured” am I missing here? If you have a Saudi Prince with $100 billion 
burning a hole in his pocket standing on your desk stomping his little Saudi 
foot insisting that you do it his way, how much more strain do you want to put 
on the term “secured”?

Tesla did not fail to take the company private because it didn’t have funding. 
Elon is not precisely a genius on the byzantine world of public stocks. A large 
percentage of Tesla investors are institutional “funds” and by their fund 
charters are severely limited on how much of their holdings can be illiquid. 
That means typically that no more than 10% of their holdings could be in 
private companies. And as Elon owned 25% of the company at the time, he 
couldn’t get the votes from these funds to do the deal. It would mean the funds 
had to get out, and they didn’t WANT out.

It wasn’t that he couldn’t get the FUNDING to do the deal. He couldn’t get 50% 
shareholder approval even with his 25%. Oh, he MIGHT have but a large segment 
would have voted against, including me, and it would have been an ugly fight. 
So the idea died. But it never died from lack of funding. So understand this 
ALL REPORTING ON THIS MATTER fully qualifies under the Trump definition of FAKE 
NEWS. That is not incorrect news. Or inaccurate news. FAKE NEWS means it is 
developed entirely against all known facts for nefarious and partisan reasons 
by design. And Musk’s “funding secured” is entirely FAKE NEWS. And if it were 
real news, why would they repeat it a year later? It only makes sense if it is 
FAKE NEWS, has a nefarious purpose, and so any opportunity to repeat it is to 
the original purpose – to mislead the public.

So Tesla reached $379. And had you been short, and held on, you would be 
delighted to learn that Tesla’s Q1 2019 featured a plunge in sales and a huge 
loss, after reporting a profit in Q4 previous. And indeed we see that of short 
holdings dropped from 26,268,029 to 24,783,245 as shorts cashed in. 1484784 
shares were covered. They bought at the lower price and pocketed the savings. 

I can get with that. It seems like an UNUSUAL number are betting things will 
get worse and hanging in there. Indeed an entirely unnatural number. But it is 
worse than that. Over the next two months, short interest actually ROSE to 
37925793. What? 

In May, the stock dipped to its lowest value in years, a great opportunity to 
cover and take your victory lap. Barely 400,000 shares did just that. But out 
of 37 million. Indeed they shorted AGAIN to 43,664,833. This is 34% of the 
tradable shares. Understand that NO company in the HISTORY of the stock market 
has ever carried 34% short sale. It’s not unusual. It just doesn’t happen at 
all.

In June, Tesla announced an all time high water market for auto deliveries of 
over 95,000 cars. And the shorts remaining got out. Well down to 41,459,952. 
Where it has held steady for over a month while Tesla crushes it on one 
announcement after another. They have now introduced a 3MWh 1.5Mw battery pack 
aimed directly at competing with natural gas peaker plants that basically 
cannot ever lose a cost comparison.

Shorts don’t behave this way. They sell high, buy low, and pocket the 
difference. That is if they are in it to make money. These shorts keep doubling 
down and they INCREASE their sales AS TESLA succeeds. At this point you have a 
company that is growing its production at an exponential rate, growing its 
revenues at an exponential rate, has the best product in the entire market, 
with unlimited demand in a market it owns outright just 0.46% of. It is the 
ultimate growth stock in the ultimate market with UNLIMITED BLUE SKY – room to 
grow.

Oh, and did I mention they can raise ANY amount of money they like, at any 
time, on three days notice? There last three calls for capital have taken less 
than a week and were oversubscribed in all cases. They raised MORE money than 
they asked for.

So we have exponential growth, into an unlimited market, with unlimited capital 
ready and waiting to invest. What kind of moron bets against that?

Well the concept of them BEING a moron implies the assumption they are trying 
to make money in the first place. What if they had NO desire to make money at 
all?

The entire 41 milion short interest represents an investment at the current 
$235 per share of $9.635 billion.

What if it’s not an investment a

Re: [EVDL] The Tesla conspiracy

2019-08-20 Thread Mark Abramowitz via EV

I think you are wrong on Musk’s behavior, but don’t really care to argue it.

I know much shorts can hurt a company’s stock price, and myself own stock where 
the number of shorts have gone off into the stratosphere.(above even the 34% 
that you say never happens).

That all needs to go into any investor’s assessment of risk.(it sounds like you 
own Tesla stock. Do you?).

I think that people need to remember that a company and its stock are two 
different things. Sometimes a great company performing can have a stock 
performing poorly. These differences can provide opportunities.

- Mark

Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone

> On Aug 20, 2019, at 3:53 AM, paul dove via EV  wrote:
> 
> Nothing is inherently wrong with short selling, which is permissible under 
> the regulations of the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC). However, the 
> 'short and distort' type of short seller uses misinformation and a bear 
> market to manipulate stocks. S&D is illegal, as is its counterpart, the pump 
> and dump, which is mainly used in a bull market.  
> 
> The Saudi prince HEAD of a national investment fund DEVOTED to alternate 
> energy investments is LOBBYING Elon Musk to take the company private. He is 
> DEMANDING it. And he has a hundred billion to spend on the project. What part 
> of “funding secured” am I missing here? If you have a Saudi Prince with $100 
> billion burning a hole in his pocket standing on your desk stomping his 
> little Saudi foot insisting that you do it his way, how much more strain do 
> you want to put on the term “secured”?
> 
> Tesla did not fail to take the company private because it didn’t have 
> funding. Elon is not precisely a genius on the byzantine world of public 
> stocks. A large percentage of Tesla investors are institutional “funds” and 
> by their fund charters are severely limited on how much of their holdings can 
> be illiquid. That means typically that no more than 10% of their holdings 
> could be in private companies. And as Elon owned 25% of the company at the 
> time, he couldn’t get the votes from these funds to do the deal. It would 
> mean the funds had to get out, and they didn’t WANT out.
> 
> It wasn’t that he couldn’t get the FUNDING to do the deal. He couldn’t get 
> 50% shareholder approval even with his 25%. Oh, he MIGHT have but a large 
> segment would have voted against, including me, and it would have been an 
> ugly fight. So the idea died. But it never died from lack of funding. So 
> understand this ALL REPORTING ON THIS MATTER fully qualifies under the Trump 
> definition of FAKE NEWS. That is not incorrect news. Or inaccurate news. FAKE 
> NEWS means it is developed entirely against all known facts for nefarious and 
> partisan reasons by design. And Musk’s “funding secured” is entirely FAKE 
> NEWS. And if it were real news, why would they repeat it a year later? It 
> only makes sense if it is FAKE NEWS, has a nefarious purpose, and so any 
> opportunity to repeat it is to the original purpose – to mislead the public.
> 
> So Tesla reached $379. And had you been short, and held on, you would be 
> delighted to learn that Tesla’s Q1 2019 featured a plunge in sales and a huge 
> loss, after reporting a profit in Q4 previous. And indeed we see that of 
> short holdings dropped from 26,268,029 to 24,783,245 as shorts cashed in. 
> 1484784 shares were covered. They bought at the lower price and pocketed the 
> savings. 
> 
> I can get with that. It seems like an UNUSUAL number are betting things will 
> get worse and hanging in there. Indeed an entirely unnatural number. But it 
> is worse than that. Over the next two months, short interest actually ROSE to 
> 37925793. What? 
> 
> In May, the stock dipped to its lowest value in years, a great opportunity to 
> cover and take your victory lap. Barely 400,000 shares did just that. But out 
> of 37 million. Indeed they shorted AGAIN to 43,664,833. This is 34% of the 
> tradable shares. Understand that NO company in the HISTORY of the stock 
> market has ever carried 34% short sale. It’s not unusual. It just doesn’t 
> happen at all.
> 
> In June, Tesla announced an all time high water market for auto deliveries of 
> over 95,000 cars. And the shorts remaining got out. Well down to 41,459,952. 
> Where it has held steady for over a month while Tesla crushes it on one 
> announcement after another. They have now introduced a 3MWh 1.5Mw battery 
> pack aimed directly at competing with natural gas peaker plants that 
> basically cannot ever lose a cost comparison.
> 
> Shorts don’t behave this way. They sell high, buy low, and pocket the 
> difference. That is if they are in it to make money. These shorts keep 
> doubling down and they INCREASE their sales AS TESLA succeeds. At this point 
> you have a company that is growing its production at an exponential rate, 
> growing its revenues at an exponential rate, has the best product in the 
> entire market, with unlimited demand in a market it owns o

Re: [EVDL] The Tesla conspiracy

Re: [EVDL] The Tesla conspiracy

Re: [EVDL] The Tesla conspiracy

Re: [EVDL] The Tesla conspiracy

Re: [EVDL] The Tesla conspiracy

Re: [EVDL] The Tesla conspiracy

Re: [EVDL] The Tesla conspiracy

Re: [EVDL] The Tesla conspiracy

Re: [EVDL] The Tesla conspiracy

Re: [EVDL] The Tesla conspiracy

Re: [EVDL] The Tesla conspiracy

Re: [EVDL] The Tesla conspiracy

Re: [EVDL] The Tesla conspiracy

Re: [EVDL] The Tesla conspiracy

Re: [EVDL] The Tesla conspiracy

Re: [EVDL] The Tesla conspiracy

Re: [EVDL] The Tesla conspiracy

Re: [EVDL] The Tesla conspiracy

Re: [EVDL] The Tesla conspiracy

Re: [EVDL] The Tesla conspiracy

Re: [EVDL] The Tesla conspiracy

Re: [EVDL] The Tesla conspiracy

Re: [EVDL] The Tesla conspiracy

Re: [EVDL] The Tesla conspiracy

Re: [EVDL] The Tesla conspiracy

Re: [EVDL] The Tesla conspiracy

Re: [EVDL] The Tesla conspiracy

Re: [EVDL] The Tesla conspiracy

Re: [EVDL] The Tesla conspiracy

Re: [EVDL] The Tesla conspiracy

30 matches

Site Navigation

Mail list logo

Footer information