Re: [expert] LM 7.2 and beyond (part 2)

[Bill Linder]

It seems to me that there are several levels of Linux User installation
being talked about.

It is important then to know at whom we are aiming the system.  Target
Marketing - works wonders  ;-)

See is you agree with me, or set me straight.

The different users would look like (and the most likely percentage of
current computer users):  *** This is my Gut feeling.
.5% Guru - If the guru does not know the answer, normally, nobody
does.
2%  Advanced user - Can handle all day to day issues, plan, build
and develop systems.  Rarely needs reference material anymore.
5%  Intermediate user - Can handle day to day issues, plan simple
builds, but not ready to develop systems.
10% Beginning user - Can get into most "normal" applications and get
their own work done.  Has almost no idea about how it all works.
83.5%   Newbie - Just installed Linux.  Has no idea what to do next.
Clicks on things and gets lost.


I would envision an installation database tracking packages in "standard"
installations (Firewall, Web Server, Mail Server, Developer Station, ...),
and relating them to different users "abilities".



Kind of like this...
G = Guru, A = Advanced, I = Intermediate, B = Beginner, N = Newbie
+ = Install
- = no install
? = Give option
 ** the next several lines need a mono-spaced font ***
   Install Type -> Web  | Firewall | Development | Workstation | Office Use
| Personal | Gamer  | 
User Type Package

   Apache   +GAIBN | ?GA-IBN  | ?GAI-BN  |||||
   SendMail  ?GA+IBN | ?GA-IBN  | ?GA+IBN  |||||
   vi  |||||||


This matrix would then allow a user to select what they think they are based
on something like the above (but better) definition, then to select what
kind of installation they want to do.
The Guru level would basically get the option on everything, and be able to
see all packages, whereas the Newbie would get only the most uncomplicated
stuff (read GUI or very simple shell.)

The Guru's system would setup with Root login as normal.  The Newbie's
system would set up with all kinds of warnings (Are you sure? type stuff).
The Guru's system would have normal direct access to the raw configurations
of the system.  The Newbie's system would wrap everything it could in
"control panels" and leave the rest out.
The Guru's system would have all directories wide open to the local user
(normal).  The Newbie's system would not have /etc or other *important*
directories visible.

(Please forgive me if this does not seem well thought out, it has been a 70+
hour week already, and the weekend still looms!)  But, this is the kind of
definitions I have to think about when I device systems of systems.  To me
it makes sense to go in that direction.  It allows us all to contribute
feedback that can be applied.  It allows us to make use of the complaints we
read about, and potentially restrict certain packages/ configurations to
users who deem themselves more advanced.

I think I will end my ramblings here.  What does everyone else think?





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[expert] XFree86: Problems and Discussion

[Arcana]

Hi!

I have a Mandrake 7.0 system that's now pretty hybrid because of my custom 
installations of lots of stuff.  (That's right, stuff!)

Anyway, the thing I want to talk about is XFree86 and the problems I am 
having with it.

I am having QUITE a few issues with XFree86 4.0.1 right now.  I used to have 
3.3.6 installed but I decided to upgrade since I have a GeForce 256 DDR and 
XFree86 is geared toward the new 3D-accelerated cards.  I also wanted to use 
TrueType fonts in Netscape.  This required me to use a tool called "xfstt", 
which is compatible with XFree86.

Here's a bit of background information about the system before I start.

1) Kernel: 2.4.0-test9.
I use this kernel for its good HID (USB) support.  I have a Microsoft 
Optical Intellimouse plugged into the USB port.  (The kernel also supports 
better AGP).

2) Window manager: KDE 2 (beta)
I update KDE 2 as often as I can from its CVS source tree.  My version of 
KDE is rarely ever older than a week.  There are a few issues with KDE 2 and 
XFree86, so I'm bringing them up here (as this is a Linux Discussion list).

3) XFree86 4.0.1
As I said before.  I installed this using the binaries from XFree86.org's 
web page.  

4) Font servers: various
I use Fonttastic (with Wordperfect 2000 for Linux), xfstt, the true-type 
font server, and fontfs which I believe is the standard X Font Server

5) Video card: GeForce 256 DDR
the ASUS-6800 deluxe.  I'm using the drivers with XFree86's package though I 
should probably try upgrading to the packages available from nVidia.

Anyway...

I get problems starting up X sometimes.

1) When I start KDE2: it sometimes freezes up and I'm unable to click on 
anything or hit ALT-CTRL-BKSPC to quit.  I have to hit the power-off button.  
Usually, if the progress bar doesn't reach all the way to 100% on session 
startup, it'll freeze.  KDE problem, perhaps?  (It didn't do this with 
XFree86 3.3.6).

2) If I quit X, go to the console, then start X again, the system will lock 
up.  It'll switch the monitor graphics mode, but it'll freeze right there and 
not do anything.  

Any help? 
-- 
-- Arcana



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Re: [expert] KDE bug/annoyance

[Arcana]

On Friday 20 October 2000 16:11, you wrote:

> > after checking for the latest PAM to fix my problem with KDM (not
> displaying a background image) it seems i am running the latest PAM
> v.7.2-12mdk , and KDEv. 1.99

If you're not able to view an JPEG images (try loading a pixmap as the 
background, then try viewing JPEGS in the web browser) then you have to 
compile QT 2.2.0 with jpeg-support on.  Check the QT readme file for the 
exact parameter (it's something like -system-jpeg).

The instructions should look something like:

(download QT and unpack it)
# export QTDIR="dir where QT is installed"
cd $QTDIR
./configure -system-jpeg [and other options]
make

-- 
-- Arcana



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Re: [expert] Wordperfect Office 2000 on 7.2beta3?

[Bill Piety]

Larry Marshall wrote:

> > There is a notorious problem with the installation of the
> > FontTastic Font Server on non-Debian-based distros.
>
> I have no problem with this under LM7.1.
>
> > Has anyone succeeded to install Wordperfect Office 2000 on
> > Mandrake 7.2beta3. Wordperfect Office 2000 (similar Corel
>
> Nope.
>
> > Photo Paint) wants to use xfstt but can't, yielding the
> > usual error message:
> > can't add FontTastic fontserver to fontpath ...
>
> I had the same problem but it looks like the problem traces back to
> the installation of the fontastic package, where there's an error
> saying that there is a conflict with an initscripts-5.27 that's
> attributed to LM.  So far I haven't been able to figure out a
> solution.
>
> What is "xfstt"?  I can find no evidence of it in LM7.1 and yet
> everything works fine there.
>
> Cheers --- Larry
>
>   
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xfstt is afaik the 1st or one of the 1st free true type rasterisers
available, GPL. Sort of a 1 man project, and handles fonts a bit differently
than XFree. I've heard it helps Netscape, especially with larger sizes.


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Re: [expert] LM 7.2 and beyond (part 2)

[Larry Marshall]

> > I hate to compare Linux to Windoze (in general Linux rocks, Windoze quivers)
> > but the 'add/remove programs' bit will automagically tell you if you need
> > additional stuff in order to run an application (albeit only stuff on their
> > CD) and will automagically install it for you at the same time.  The same
> > goes for the Windoze Update facility that upgrades/adds applications over
> > the Internet.  If Billy Gates can do it, I'm sure the geniuses (genii?)
> > behind the various Linux distros can do it too...

I think you're missing one very basic distinction between the Windoze
world and the Linux world (and thus the breadth of the problem of
auto-installation).  

Microsoft developed a SINGLE platform to which all programs must be
written.  If they don't, they don't install and they don't
run...period.  It's pretty easy to guard the gate when it's that
narrow.  Even so, your suggestion that MS has solved the dependency
problem with their add/remove function is simply not the case and
anyone who's found themselves reinstalling the OS after removing
applications will attest to that.  

Linux, on the other hand has done no such thing.  There is a kernel
and on top of that are several software platorms and software is
written for any of them.  This is what creates the problems of
dependencies in the first place.  If you want to take KDE and imbed it
in the kernel (a really lousy idea) we can eliminate all this need for
thinking when installing programs.  Otherwise, you're going to have to
worry about whether the right stuff is available to run the program
you're installing.

Cheers --- Larry



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Re: [expert] Wordperfect Office 2000 on 7.2beta3?

[Larry Marshall]

> There is a notorious problem with the installation of the
> FontTastic Font Server on non-Debian-based distros.

I have no problem with this under LM7.1.
 
> Has anyone succeeded to install Wordperfect Office 2000 on
> Mandrake 7.2beta3. Wordperfect Office 2000 (similar Corel

Nope.

> Photo Paint) wants to use xfstt but can't, yielding the
> usual error message:
> can't add FontTastic fontserver to fontpath ...

I had the same problem but it looks like the problem traces back to
the installation of the fontastic package, where there's an error
saying that there is a conflict with an initscripts-5.27 that's
attributed to LM.  So far I haven't been able to figure out a
solution.

What is "xfstt"?  I can find no evidence of it in LM7.1 and yet
everything works fine there.

Cheers --- Larry



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Re: [expert] aic7xxx module problems.. How can I turn it off?

[Gavin Clark]

there is a way to drop into the adaptec card's BIOS on startup. poke around
and see if any settings look funny (use your best judgement).  there is a
tool in there which shows you what it can see on the scsi bus. check for
termination / device # problems.

Sorry I can't be more specific.

Gavin Clark

on 10/20/00 4:40 PM, Tom Eastman  wrote:

> Hello everybody.
> 
> I have an Adaptec 2940 SCSI card with a hard drive plugged into it.  My
> problem is that, when booting linux, the SCSI card goes into an infinite
> reset loop about half the time and I can't boot.
> 
> What is *weird* about this is if my computer has been turned off for a
> while and I turn it on, it always fails to boot, whereas if I've been
> running windows for about half an hour already, it will generally work
> perfectly.
> 
> Last time I had Mandrake installed, it didn't try to load the aic7xxx.o
> module unless I told it to, that way it would always boot and I would only
> risk crashing the computer with "insmod aic7xxx" if I needed to get
> something off of that hard drive.  But now it always tries to load the
> module at boot time.. How can I tell it not to?
> 
> Or, even better, if someone could tell me what might be causing the card to
> not work unless it's been in windows for a while, I could fix the problem
> once and for all.  It would be a major step towards reducing my dependence
> on windows... I can't think of a more noble cause!!!
> 
> Thanks for your help,
> Tom
> 
> P.S.  If anyone has some knowledge of this sort of thing and wants
> additional information I'll be happy to provide it.  8-)  Thanks again!
> 




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[expert] modem

[egidionet]

My modem is a 3COM 3CP2976 (PCI slot) model, and I want to connect internet 
with it, but I'm in doubt how to set this modem. My Linux is Mandrake 7.0, 
and I have saw in the internet articles of people (3 guys) that make it to 
works fine. They write the same: take the file "rc.serial" located in 
\usr\doc\setserial_ 2.15\rc.serial and put this file to load at \etc\rc.d 
where it can load at boot and set the IRQ,I/O and UART of the modem, and for 
this we must put a command line (I don't know where in this rc.serial's 
script) like this:
 

 
#/sbin/setserial /dev/ttyS? IRQ ? uart 16550A skip_test
 

 
where ? and ? are the serial and IRQ numbers.
 

 
I saw other command like:
 

 
#/sbin/setserial /dev/ttyS? auto_irq skip_test autoconfig
 

 
but I don't know how to make it works, when I TRY nothing happens. 
 

 
The direct site URL is : 
 
"http://lhd.datapower.com/db/dispproduct.php3?DISP?1978"
 

 
where you can see the articles in the end of the page in "User Reports 
section"
 

 
If important: my motherboard is ASUS K7V.
 
I want to know the port tyyS?, IRQ and Uart, and if is necessary to set the 
BIOS too for "no PNP OS" and where to put the command line in the script. 

_
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[expert] aic7xxx module problems.. How can I turn it off?

[Tom Eastman]

Hello everybody.

I have an Adaptec 2940 SCSI card with a hard drive plugged into it.  My 
problem is that, when booting linux, the SCSI card goes into an infinite 
reset loop about half the time and I can't boot.

What is *weird* about this is if my computer has been turned off for a 
while and I turn it on, it always fails to boot, whereas if I've been 
running windows for about half an hour already, it will generally work 
perfectly.

Last time I had Mandrake installed, it didn't try to load the aic7xxx.o 
module unless I told it to, that way it would always boot and I would only 
risk crashing the computer with "insmod aic7xxx" if I needed to get 
something off of that hard drive.  But now it always tries to load the 
module at boot time.. How can I tell it not to?

Or, even better, if someone could tell me what might be causing the card to 
not work unless it's been in windows for a while, I could fix the problem 
once and for all.  It would be a major step towards reducing my dependence 
on windows... I can't think of a more noble cause!!!

Thanks for your help,
Tom

P.S.  If anyone has some knowledge of this sort of thing and wants 
additional information I'll be happy to provide it.  8-)  Thanks again!

-
Tom Eastman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
ICQ:13660569
Cellphone:  +64 21 44 93 44
PGP Key ID: 0xA138D6AE
http://vacantsound.iwarp.com

"Sometimes I think that the surest sign that intellegent life exists
elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." 




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Re: [expert] LM 7.2 and beyond (part 2)

[J . A . Magallon]

On Fri, 20 Oct 2000 23:39:23 Austin L. Denyer wrote:

> 
> I hate to compare Linux to Windoze (in general Linux rocks, Windoze quivers)
> but the 'add/remove programs' bit will automagically tell you if you need
> additional stuff in order to run an application (albeit only stuff on their
> CD) and will automagically install it for you at the same time.  The same
> goes for the Windoze Update facility that upgrades/adds applications over
> the Internet.  If Billy Gates can do it, I'm sure the geniuses (genii?)
> behind the various Linux distros can do it too...
> 

I heavily disagree on that. One of the nice features of linux is that one
can almost know in what spents each byte on the disk. Look at one other thread
in this list, one about /var/log full of .x.gz files. People notices that.

Suppose a server in which the admin logs remotely. It has just the basic X
installed. (S)He decides that needs a GUI editor (to be used remotely).
Looks for one, sees gEdit (or kedit), and ends up ('automagically') with the
disk plenty of gnome (or kde) stuff (s)he didn't really neded (just try
xedit, or something just plain gtk).

And think in people outside USA. There internet connection (local calls) are
free. In Spain, for example, you can't say 'ok, spent this night downloading
StarOffice updates' @ not-sustained-50kbits (if you are lucky) and 
@ nearly 1$/hour.

If linuxes start to auto-install thins very heavily, you will end with an
ILoveYou.rpm wandering over the net (rpm runs suid).

I'm just very happy with the actual way, use rpm or any graphical front end,
and look at the dependecies and decide if you want all that extra stuff or
look for another thing. If you need extra stuff, download and save it (for
the bad luck of a system crash, you don't need to download it again). That
is one of the things I don't like of MandrakeUpdate. It wipes the new rpms
that just installed.

My point of view it that if you can learn what a control panel is, where
is "My programs" and where is the menu in Word to insert a table, you also can
learn what is an rpm, what is a dependency and what is a kernel module.


-- 
Juan Antonio Magallon Lacarta  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]




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Re: [expert] CDWriter Question

[Alexander Skwar]

So sprach Nick Webb am Thu, Oct 19, 2000 at 10:52:05PM -0700:
> Well, that's what you want.  You don't want to mount the cdrom to write to
> it!  You only need to use mount to read a disk, use cdrecord (console) or

Also for UDF?

Alexander Skwar
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Re: [expert] problem with mandrakeupdate

[Alexander Skwar]

So sprach Michel Flamang am Mon, Oct 16, 2000 at 09:34:18PM +0200:
> Well, now with mandrakeupdate 7.2-14 it work, but as root. When I try
> as simple user, when kdesu asks me the password, the file isn't even
> downloaded.

Any error messages?   If not, then I'm out of my wits - sorry.

Alexander Skwar
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Re: [expert] ./configure problem

[BillK]

Its looking for qt 1.4something (1.44 I think).  I have had to install
and build this version in a separate directory, set the envronment to
point to it and build qt, then your app.  Once complete, set the
environment back to normal.  kde 1 is tied very closely to this version
and will not compile agaist later ones.

Whats happened is early  (most?) kde apps require that specific version
to run, which Mandrake supplies, but not the headers etc needed to build
it.  The instructions for setting the environment were all in the qt tar
file, tho somewhat cryptic.

BillK


Jon wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 20 Oct 2000, you wrote:
> > >
> > > checking for KDE headers installed... configure: error: your system is
> > > not able
> > > to compile a small KDE application!
> > > Check, if you installed the KDE header files correctly.
> > >
> > > I have gotten this error with every distribution that I've ran.
> > > Currently running Mandrake7.2rc1 with everything installed that I can
> > > think of.
> >
> > Some developpement libraries are on the second CD.. did you install them
> > as
> > well ?
> 
> Yes, ALL kde rpms have been installed and I still get this error during
> ./configure.
> 
>   
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Re: [expert] LM 7.2 and beyond (part 2)

[Austin L. Denyer]

> The reason I ask is that Corel's installation asks almost no questions
> except for basic password stuff.  The result is that their installer
> breaks often during installations.  RedHat's installer lets you test
> video and such and works quite well but it doesn't ask many questions
> either unless you go into expert mode.

I seem to recall that RedHat 5.1 was very hard to install on my laptop...

> A bit of new input on this, I just installed SuSE7.0 on a machine.
> It's got some nice additions to the installer regime while also
> keeping things really simple.  It seemed to autodetect all my hardware
> except for my ethernet card.  It does let you intervene if it's
> detected wrong (a good idea in my view) but simply agreeing that it's
> detected your hardware properly, you can just press Next and move on.
> They've added a really nice feature that gives you two sets of
> onscreen arrow keys that let you adjust the size and orientation of
> your video.  I thought it was a nice touch.
> They also seem to have a new user guide to Linux as an online
> tutorial.  Haven't looked at the contents of this but it seems like a
> good idea.

I have no experience of SuSE, but I have heard some good reports.  As and
when my old pentium arrives from the UK (I recently emigrated to the USA,
and I'm still having kit shipped over) I might give it a try.

> The problem I see with delivering stripped down version of Linux is
> that very quickly a user is going to read about some application,
> download it, and find that it's not "compatible" with their
> installation because they don't have this or that.  Unix has always
> been a building block system and without a whole bunch of blocks
> available, one will surely be missing when new software is installed.

However, if the updating proggie (in the Windoze world, 'add/remove
programs') were to check the dependencies and either automagically install
them at the same time, or download them from the relevent web site, then
that problem would be solved.

I hate to compare Linux to Windoze (in general Linux rocks, Windoze quivers)
but the 'add/remove programs' bit will automagically tell you if you need
additional stuff in order to run an application (albeit only stuff on their
CD) and will automagically install it for you at the same time.  The same
goes for the Windoze Update facility that upgrades/adds applications over
the Internet.  If Billy Gates can do it, I'm sure the geniuses (genii?)
behind the various Linux distros can do it too...

> I do think that it's silly to be providing, by default, things like
> Star Office, AbiWord, Word Perfect, etc.  If that stuff is on the CDs
> that's great but they should be things you ADD to your normal 'newbie'
> installation, not something you have to remove as an 'expert'
> installer.

I agree.

> > Out of the remaining 2Gb, once I take out the suspend partition and
Linux
> > Swap, I'm down to 1.7Gb.  A full 7.0 installation, plus StarOffice 5.2
and
> > I'm almost out - and that's before the data...
>
> Data...no time for data creation :-)

About the only thing I've had time for recently in Linux is to search for
E.T.'s phone call...

> > Better descriptions of the individual packages would help.  These don't
need
> > to be long, just to the point.  For example, "vi - small, no frills,
> > powerful but steep learning curve", "pico - similar to DOS Edit",
"Emacs -
>
> I agree but let's look at those examples.  A newbie looks at this and
> says, "Yuck, I don't want any of those editors; I want Word Perfect."
> If you leave those out you might as well leave Pine out (some might
> argue that's a good idea too).  But what does the newbie do, after
> he's done all this with the view that he does his editing with WP and
> he needs to add a line to fstab?  What's he do if he loses his X
> installation?  What's he do if he edits rc.sysinit and saves it as a
> Word Perfect file (grin)?

My list above was not intended to be exclusive - I used those purely as an
example.

However, I agree with your points.  There would need to be a note to inform
the user that as well as the bells and whistles GUI word processor, he needs
a basic non-GUI editor in case the pod bay doors won't open...

> I'm not really arguing that you're wrong but I am suggesting that
> excluding a lot of this stuff is a tough call, especially for the
> uninitiated.

You are quite right.

I have only really played with Linux so far.  I set up a fax server on
SlackWare UMSDOS a couple of years ago, and then started playing again about
a year ago.  I am fairly strong on computers in general, but pretty new to
Linux.  I find package selection very daunting, as I don't have a clue what
most of them do...

That is why I believe that the installer/updater is more user-friendly, both
for newbies who don't always know what they want, and for experts who know
exactly what they want, but don't want to spend all day
selecting/deselecting packages...

Regards,
Ozz.





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[expert] Wordperfect Office 2000 on 7.2beta3?

[Joachim von Jena]

There is a notorious problem with the installation of the
FontTastic Font Server on non-Debian-based distros.

Now my question:

Has anyone succeeded to install Wordperfect Office 2000 on
Mandrake 7.2beta3. Wordperfect Office 2000 (similar Corel
Photo Paint) wants to use xfstt but can't, yielding the
usual error message:

can't add FontTastic fontserver to fontpath ...

Any comments and hints highly appreciated.

Joachim




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[expert] KDE bug/annoyance

[Shawn Hafen]

after checking for the latest PAM to fix my problem with KDM (not displaying a 
background image) it seems i am running the latest PAM v.7.2-12mdk , and KDEv. 1.99 

Im using mandrake 7.2 beta3 and all the packages on the cd are the same versions as 
the ones in the cooker. Im pretty sure if someone sends my the line from kdmrc that 
contains the information for using a wallpaper on the login screen i can just paste it 
into my kdmrc and be happy...

:)

thanks!

Shawn Hafen

Take the training wheels off your PC
  --==USE LINUX==--
__
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[expert] KDE bug/annoyance

[Shawn Hafen]

after checking for the latest PAM to fix my problem with KDM (not displaying a 
background image) it seems i am running the latest PAM v.7.2-12mdk , and KDEv. 1.99 

Im using mandrake 7.2 beta3 and all the packages on the cd are the same versions as 
the ones in the cooker. Im pretty sure if someone sends my the line from kdmrc that 
contains the information for using a wallpaper on the login screen i can just paste it 
into my kdmrc and be happy...

:)

thanks!

Shawn Hafen

Take the training wheels off your PC
  --==USE LINUX==--
__
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[expert] KDE bug/annoyance

[Shawn Hafen]

after checking for the latest PAM to fix my problem with KDM it seems i am running the 
latest PAM, and KDE 

Im using mandrake 7.2 beta3 and all the packages on the cd are the same versions as 
the ones in the cooker. Im pretty sure if someone sends my the line from kdmrc that 
contains the information for using a wallpaper on the login screen i can just paste it 
into my kdmrc and be happy...

:)

thanks!

Shawn Hafen

Take the training wheels off your PC
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Re: [expert] LM 7.2 and beyond (part 2)

[Larry Marshall]

> That is a difficult area for me to comment on, as I haven't installed RedHat
> since 5.1, and I have never used Corel.  The only other distros I've played
> with are SlackWare UMSDOS and TurboLinux.

The reason I ask is that Corel's installation asks almost no questions
except for basic password stuff.  The result is that their installer
breaks often during installations.  RedHat's installer lets you test
video and such and works quite well but it doesn't ask many questions
either unless you go into expert mode.

A bit of new input on this, I just installed SuSE7.0 on a machine. 
It's got some nice additions to the installer regime while also
keeping things really simple.  It seemed to autodetect all my hardware
except for my ethernet card.  It does let you intervene if it's
detected wrong (a good idea in my view) but simply agreeing that it's
detected your hardware properly, you can just press Next and move on. 
They've added a really nice feature that gives you two sets of
onscreen arrow keys that let you adjust the size and orientation of
your video.  I thought it was a nice touch.
They also seem to have a new user guide to Linux as an online
tutorial.  Haven't looked at the contents of this but it seems like a
good idea.

> That is fine if the user has sackloads of hard disk space.  Many don't -

Good point.

> especially newbies who are trying it out on a dual-boot Windoze machine, or
> on a laptop.  For example, I only have a 6Gb drive on this laptop, and need
> 4Gb of that for Windoze - and that is way too tight; it's nearly all gone.

The problem I see with delivering stripped down version of Linux is
that very quickly a user is going to read about some application,
download it, and find that it's not "compatible" with their
installation because they don't have this or that.  Unix has always
been a building block system and without a whole bunch of blocks
available, one will surely be missing when new software is installed. 
I do think that it's silly to be providing, by default, things like
Star Office, AbiWord, Word Perfect, etc.  If that stuff is on the CDs
that's great but they should be things you ADD to your normal 'newbie'
installation, not something you have to remove as an 'expert'
installer.

> Out of the remaining 2Gb, once I take out the suspend partition and Linux
> Swap, I'm down to 1.7Gb.  A full 7.0 installation, plus StarOffice 5.2 and
> I'm almost out - and that's before the data...

Data...no time for data creation :-)

> Better descriptions of the individual packages would help.  These don't need
> to be long, just to the point.  For example, "vi - small, no frills,
> powerful but steep learning curve", "pico - similar to DOS Edit", "Emacs -

I agree but let's look at those examples.  A newbie looks at this and
says, "Yuck, I don't want any of those editors; I want Word Perfect." 
If you leave those out you might as well leave Pine out (some might
argue that's a good idea too).  But what does the newbie do, after
he's done all this with the view that he does his editing with WP and
he needs to add a line to fstab?  What's he do if he loses his X
installation?  What's he do if he edits rc.sysinit and saves it as a
Word Perfect file (grin)?

I'm not really arguing that you're wrong but I am suggesting that
excluding a lot of this stuff is a tough call, especially for the
uninitiated.  

Cheers --- Larry



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Re: [expert] Sending linux box off to camp

[Matthew Micene]

The next question would have to be a listing of the actual error that is
being thrown when the mount fails.  Is there an /etc/fstab entry for
/dev/hdb6?  My suggestion would be stop the services, try the mount by
hand, see what errors (if any) get thrown.  If there aren't any errors
thrown trying to mount the directory by hand... hmm.. I'd have to ponder
a bit more, especially late on a friday afternoon :)  


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[expert] which sound driver for Epox 8KTA board ?

[Daniel Woods]

> > I use a Epox 8kta M/B it works very well.  I'm running a Thnuderbird 800 on
> > it - I'm very pleased with the performance, stability and reliability of the
> > system.
> 
> That's nice to know :) ... I just picked up the *exact* same system this
> morning to use as a Linux server for a library application.

Ok, so what sound driver do I use for this onboard sound card on the
Epox EP-8kTA board ?  I use this as a Linux server, and the CD for windows
appears to imply a Via sound card with SoundBlaster compatibility.
Using command-line sounddrake does not show me any that I should use.

Thanks... Dan.




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Re: [expert] logrotate

[Asheesh Laroia]

On Fri, 20 Oct 2000, Turgut Kalfaoglu wrote:
> I wrote a C program that would create a batch to do just that:
>   rm mail.err.%d.gz.%d.gz.%d.gz.%d.gz*

Can you email me the source to this?

I'm starting to learn C++ and C, and I can't understand how to do system
calls.

Thanks a bundle!

-- Asheesh.




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Re: [expert] Sending linux box off to camp

[Eric Mings]

>
>I would ask how and when you are mounting the secondary drive?  It sounds
>like (based on the services you reinstated) that you are NFS sharing the
>secondary drive.  Are you using automount to mount the drive when
>mirrordir fires or is it explicitly mounted by hand (or script)?
>

I have a script that just uses a

mount /dev/hdb6  /mirror
mirrordir --verbose / /mirror \

and then a buch of exclude arguements and mail results statement then

umount /mirror

I was also surprised it didn't seem to work correctly as I described.
-- 
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Eric Mings Ph.D.



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Re: [expert] Sending linux box off to camp

[Matthew Micene]

On Fri, 20 Oct 2000, you wrote:
> 
> Thanks for the additional info. Actually I was about to resurrect 
> this thread myself. I discovered after removing the suggested 
> services that my mirrordir I run nightly was failing. Seems it was 
> unable to successfully mount and unmount my secondary internal hard 
> drive (I keep it unmounted except when mirroring my primary drive). 
> Temporarily I added back the netfs, nfslock,and portmap services and 
> that seems to have solved the problem. However, I don't know which of 
> these I can remove and not have the problem again. I haven't had a 
> chance to experiment since I discovered the problem a couple days 
> ago. Suggestions appreciated.

Eric,
Are you using mirrordir on a local drive or across a network connection? 
It doesn't appear to have any dependencies on anything else.  so the
incantation : 
mirrordir -v  / /mnt/tartget -exclude /mnt
should work just fine locally.

I would ask how and when you are mounting the secondary drive?  It sounds
like (based on the services you reinstated) that you are NFS sharing the
secondary drive.  Are you using automount to mount the drive when
mirrordir fires or is it explicitly mounted by hand (or script)?

 -- 
Matthew Micene
Systems Development Manager
Express Search Inc.
www.ExpressSearch.com

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and no one will talk to a host too close
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Re: [expert] LM 7.2 and beyond (part 2)

[Austin L. Denyer]

> > I agree.  We need a 'newbie' install option that makes all the technical
> > decisions for you, as well as the other install options for those with
more
> > knowledge.
>
> Do you view a RH installation as being this sort of installation?  What
> about Corel?  The problem I see with these installations is that if
> autodetection fails in any way, the user has no recourse.

That is a difficult area for me to comment on, as I haven't installed RedHat
since 5.1, and I have never used Corel.  The only other distros I've played
with are SlackWare UMSDOS and TurboLinux.

> > Also, we could use a more 'user-friendly' way for the 'newbie' to
install
> > additional packages at a later date.  An option to automagically
>
> This is possible if you restrict your view to them actually buying them
> (or getting them) from a single place and restrict what applications
> you're talking about.  It's easy to control installation if you're holding
> hte proprietary keys to setup/installation but given the nature of open
> source and the free range of application developers, you're asking a lot
> to generate standard installations.  It might be nice if we could get the
> websites to better label whether this or that rpm requires compilation or
> not though.

RPM already checks for dependency issues.  Surely it's not that great a step
for it to check your CD or the ftp site for your distro to find the

> > Another member of the group recommended taking out the repeated packages
> > with similar functionality - I don't think that would work.  There would
be
> > far too many holy wars re-started as to what is taken out.  A better
>
> Agreed but the problem could be partially solved by presenting ONLY the
> KDE tool suite and/or GNOME suite.  They could stick vi, vim, and emacs on
> the HD but not stick them on the menus.  It gets downright overwhelming
> for a newbie to find no less than 8 basic editors and half a dozen
> formatting tools on his menu system when all he want to do is write a
> note.

That is fine if the user has sackloads of hard disk space.  Many don't -
especially newbies who are trying it out on a dual-boot Windoze machine, or
on a laptop.  For example, I only have a 6Gb drive on this laptop, and need
4Gb of that for Windoze - and that is way too tight; it's nearly all gone.
Out of the remaining 2Gb, once I take out the suspend partition and Linux
Swap, I'm down to 1.7Gb.  A full 7.0 installation, plus StarOffice 5.2 and
I'm almost out - and that's before the data...

Better descriptions of the individual packages would help.  These don't need
to be long, just to the point.  For example, "vi - small, no frills,
powerful but steep learning curve", "pico - similar to DOS Edit", "Emacs -
best suited to those with ten fingers on each hand", etc.

Regards,
Ozz.





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Re: [expert] Sending linux box off to camp

[Eric Mings]

Thanks for the additional info. Actually I was about to resurrect 
this thread myself. I discovered after removing the suggested 
services that my mirrordir I run nightly was failing. Seems it was 
unable to successfully mount and unmount my secondary internal hard 
drive (I keep it unmounted except when mirroring my primary drive). 
Temporarily I added back the netfs, nfslock,and portmap services and 
that seems to have solved the problem. However, I don't know which of 
these I can remove and not have the problem again. I haven't had a 
chance to experiment since I discovered the problem a couple days 
ago. Suggestions appreciated.

>On Wed, 18 Oct 2000, you wrote:
>>
>>  So sprach Eric Mings am Thu, Oct 12, 2000 at 09:19:44PM -0400:
>>  > I am about ready to send one of my linux boxes off to camp (ISP
>>  > colocation) and I want to try and make sure I have not forgotten
>>  > anything that would either effect security or my ability to remote
>>  > administer it.
>
>I realize this thread died a few days back, but I had just thought of
>something else that may need to be done aside from just removing the
>services.  You need to run through your /etc/passwd and /etc/groups and
>remove all the unnecessary users from those files (either with linxconf or
>your favorite editor).  If ftp isnt running the ftp user is most certainly
>a bad thing to have on the box.  Same with things like audio, floppy,
>cdrom, etc.  If you think this isn't a problem, search the Bugtraq
>archives, there was a exploit earlier in the year about gaining floppy
>group access, and from there its an evelation of access attack.  Not too
>difficult, with the right tools
>
>--
>Matthew Micene
>Systems Development Manager
>Express Search Inc.
>www.ExpressSearch.com
>
>A host is a host from coast to coast,
>and no one will talk to a host too close
>Unless the host that isn't close is busy, hung or dead
>
>
>Keep in touch with http://mandrakeforum.com:
>Subscribe the "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" mailing list.

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Eric Mings Ph.D.



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Re: [expert] Hard disk Mirror Imange

[Eric Mings]

Use mirrordir, you can make an exact image and also use it to 
regularly update the image. I use it on server to maintain a second 
hard drive (updated nightly) that I can boot from if my primary 
should fail. Seems by far (apart from expensive solutions such as 
RAID) the easiest way to make sure you can get up and running again 
fast in the case of a failed primary drive.

>Hi,
>
>How Can I make a mirror image of my mandrake hard disk?
>and does Drive Image from Power Quest will work for linux os?
>
>Thank you
>
>Oscar
>
>
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Eric Mings Ph.D.



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Re: [expert] Sending linux box off to camp

[Matthew Micene]

On Wed, 18 Oct 2000, you wrote:
> 
> So sprach Eric Mings am Thu, Oct 12, 2000 at 09:19:44PM -0400:
> > I am about ready to send one of my linux boxes off to camp (ISP 
> > colocation) and I want to try and make sure I have not forgotten 
> > anything that would either effect security or my ability to remote 
> > administer it.

I realize this thread died a few days back, but I had just thought of
something else that may need to be done aside from just removing the
services.  You need to run through your /etc/passwd and /etc/groups and
remove all the unnecessary users from those files (either with linxconf or
your favorite editor).  If ftp isnt running the ftp user is most certainly
a bad thing to have on the box.  Same with things like audio, floppy,
cdrom, etc.  If you think this isn't a problem, search the Bugtraq
archives, there was a exploit earlier in the year about gaining floppy
group access, and from there its an evelation of access attack.  Not too
difficult, with the right tools

-- 
Matthew Micene
Systems Development Manager
Express Search Inc.
www.ExpressSearch.com

A host is a host from coast to coast,
and no one will talk to a host too close
Unless the host that isn't close is busy, hung or dead



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Re: [expert] Kernel 2.2.18 and GCC versions

[Fabrice Medio]

"J . A . Magallon" wrote:

> Hi, everybody.
> 
> I have a little problem when compiling new kernels.
> Kernel 2.2.18-pre15 compiles fine under gcc-2.95.2. It is just plain
> 2.2.17 with Alan's patch to 18-pre15.


You may want to use gcc 2.96 in very precise cases, especially
if you're developping c++ apps and make heavy use templates.

gcc-2.95-3 is nevertheless an excellent general-purpose compiler.

Fabrice


-- 
Fabrice Medio
MandrakeSoft Professional Services
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>



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Re: [expert] KDM broken w/ LM7.2beta3 /kde 1.99

[Mark Polsen]

Bruno,

I thinmk that you need upgrade to the latest pam to resolve this
problem. I'm currently using 7.2beta3 and upgraded pam first before KDE
1.99. I had no problems with KDM in 
KDE 1.99

Good Luck,
Mark

Bruno Damour wrote:
> 
> Hello
> 
> I have this strange problem after installing KDE 1.99 from LM7.2beta3 :  kdm
> refuses to let any user log in and invariable answers 'login failed'.
> 
> I can though log in the console as usual and startx strats KDE 1.99 without
> problem
> I tried to run the login manager but nothing changed.
> 
> Any hints PLEASE ?
> 
> TIA.
> 
>   
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Re: [expert] KDM broken w/ LM7.2beta3 /kde 1.99

[Joerg Mertin]

On Fri, 20 Oct 2000, you wrote:

> > Hello
>
> I have this strange problem after installing KDE 1.99 from LM7.2beta3 : 
> kdm refuses to let any user log in and invariable answers 'login failed'.
>
> I can though log in the console as usual and startx strats KDE 1.99 without
> problem
> I tried to run the login manager but nothing changed.

You have to also upgrade the pam-packages - You'll find them in the cooker 
directories.

Cya

Smurphy
-- 
CCI Power 6/40: one board, a megabyte of cache, and an attitude...

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RE: [expert] Hard disk Mirror Imange

[Klar Brian D Contr MSG/SWS]

Partimage is the linux ghost equivalent, check freshmeat.

-Original Message-
From: Rivera, Oscar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 11:53 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [expert] Hard disk Mirror Imange


Hi,

How Can I make a mirror image of my mandrake hard disk?
and does Drive Image from Power Quest will work for linux os?

Thank you 

Oscar





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Re: [expert] wireless networking

[Jeff Groves]

The Wavelan (Orinoco)  cards work fine with the latest releases of 
Mandrake.  The pcmcia package contains drivers for the cards, so you don't 
have to compile anything.

There are several brands of wireless cards, but many of them are just OEM 
versions of the Wavelan stuff and use the same drivers.  Nearly all of them 
are PCMCIA cards.  To use them in a server, they require a PCMCIA adaptor 
card that plugs into an ISA slot on the motherboard.

I've been using them with Linux for nearly 2 years.  From a networking 
standpoint, they operate the same as a regular ethernet card.

Jeff

At 10:24 AM 10/20/00 -0600, you wrote:
>Does anyone know anything about wireless networking under Linux?  I'm
>looking to find a brand that works with Linux and provides support for
>my laptop (ie. pcmcia card).  I don't know the first thing about
>wireless, so I'd appreciate any horror stories you may have.  =)  It's
>for an article I've been asked to write.  Thanks.
>
>--
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[expert] wireless networking

[Vincent Danen]

Does anyone know anything about wireless networking under Linux?  I'm
looking to find a brand that works with Linux and provides support for
my laptop (ie. pcmcia card).  I don't know the first thing about
wireless, so I'd appreciate any horror stories you may have.  =)  It's
for an article I've been asked to write.  Thanks.

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Re: [expert] LM 7.2 and beyond (part 2)

[Buchan Milne]

digiryde wrote:
> 
> This is my opinion.
> 
> I sit on both edges  of the OS fence (I use M$ aat work and Linux at home.)
> Unfortunately, I can not see giving most of the users I work with any linux
> packages at all.  They would never get past the installations.  Does this
> mean they are ignorant.  Yep!  But, you would not want me doing brain
> surgery either.
> 
> I think LM should be working towards an "ignorant user" install option as
> well (I like the ideas in the previous message!).  If you really want to
> convince the companies of "proprietary products" that the platform is one
> they need to pay attention to, then we have to convince the general public
> of the value of Linux as well.  That is never going to happen when they can
> not do the first 5% (installation) in relative ease and lack of thought.  M$
> has the right idea when it comes to that 95% of the market that is computer
> tech illiterate.  They take away the choices.  It keeps them (the user) from
> being overwhelmed.

The whole point of this is that it would cater for users. Most people
would NOT choose "custom/expert server" and be prompted with a choice of
samba/dns/dhcp/sql etc, but a typical MCSE who hasn't might, and would
find this much better than trying to find out what samba is useful for.

> To me, an "ignorant user" pacakge would come with a desktop or two to choose
> from at install time, but only one gets installed.  Yeah - this flies in the
> face of what most of us want on our systems.  But, before we are going to
> get the "masses" to use Linux/Un*x of any type, the confusion of
> installation (read too many choices) has to vanish.  The installation
> package would also contain the mainstream "products" that are being used and
> agressively developed in the Linux/Un*x world.  But, only one or two choices
> from each type, and GUI based.  Embrace what has worked for M$ (ease of use
> up front, limited choices to the end user, ...) and extend it beyond their
> ability (Read stability, powere, etc in addition).  I hate being forced to
> make money on M$ products, and would love to see M$ replaced with a sane
> platform.  Believe it or not, it starts at the installation for most of my
> users.

These users would choose "desktop" and be presented with the choice of
office/web/email/productivity/multimedia/themes/games/. If someone can't
realize what these are used for, they should consider whether they are
capable of doing brain surgery or whatever it is they do (even being a
secretary!). Most servers wouldn't have these installed, unless it's a
"terminal server" which could even be another type of installation.
 
I just made a detailed list of the kind of stuff I would like to see,
since this is where I spend most of my time choosing packages (we run
samba mostly, no NFS, no DNS, no DHCP, but do run SQL, apache.)

Buchan

> 
> >
> >
> > Larry Marshall wrote:
> > >
> > > >  Keep all the packages up-to-date
> > >
> > > Probably not a popular opinion but it makes more sense to keep most of
> > > those packages one version behind the cutting edge in your official
> > > distributions.  All you need to do is look at what's going on right now
> > > with RH7.0 to see that being on the edge can spell lots of trouble.  If
> > > you're going after the Windows user you can't have things crashing and
> > > being incompatible as they just aren't going to buy into the "download
> > > this and compile" model.
> >
[snipping my own drivel ...]

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[expert] Bug in 7.2/KDE?

[Shawn Hafen]

Every time I tell KDE to use a background image for the logni manager it does not 
work, it seems to ignore me alltogether in that area.

can someone with a background image on there login manager paste there kdmrc file in a 
mail for me so i can see the line it uses and just paste it into my kdmrc file?? ( 
i think the file is in /usr/share/apps/kdm/  

TIA

Shawn Hafen

Take the training wheels off your PC
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[expert] Hard disk Mirror Imange

[Rivera, Oscar]

Hi,

How Can I make a mirror image of my mandrake hard disk?
and does Drive Image from Power Quest will work for linux os?

Thank you 

Oscar




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Re: [expert] LM 7.2 and beyond (part 2)

[pablito]

I don't find the existing install that hard.  If a ignorant user has enough
space on the hard disk he or she could just go ahead and ignore all the
geekoid stuff that somehow gets stuck on there unless you really pick and
choose.  There ought to be a warning, however, that choosing the
simpleminded install will make linux the default bootup selection!

: > I think LM should be working towards an "ignorant user" install option
as
: > well (I like the ideas in the previous message!).  If you really want to
:
: I think you're right but it's a tough call what to include/exclude.  The
: silly thing is that the first things the "ignorant" ones want to do is
: play music, games and connect to napster.  I do believe that dumping the
: wide variety of interfaces would be a huge step forward.  A simple "KDE
: vs Gnome/Enlightnement" option would make things much easier.
:
: Cheers --- Larry
:
:
:
:






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: Subscribe the "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" mailing list.
:




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Re: [expert] syslog restarts and other wierdness

[Mike Rambo]

Phil Connor wrote:
> 
> >I don't understand, dhcpd should just use the address of the NIC.  How
> >does it know "the address is already in use"?
> 
> Nope! try setting the ipaddress for DHCPD as .0 example 192.168.20.0 and
> then set your range to start with your nic address like 192.168.20.20 -
> 192.168.20.40
> 
Yes, the subnet is declared as the network addresss - not the machine. 
But dhcpd was still responding that it couldn't bind to the machine
address.  Here is my dhcpd.conf.

# Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol
# DHCPd Daemon Configuration File
# dlt=600sec=10min, mlt=43200sec=12hours
#
default-lease-time 600;
max-lease-time 43200;
option domain-name-servers 10.8.1.7, 207.73.196.250;
option domain-name "forestview.edu";

subnet 10.33.1.0 netmask 255.255.255.0 {
   range 10.33.1.10 10.33.1.250;
   option subnet-mask 255.255.255.0;
   option broadcast-address 10.33.1.255;
   option routers 10.33.1.251;
}

> >Perhaps there is more that one dhcpd running on the box.  What does the
> >log file say?  What does the output from ifconfig say?  What does your
> >dhcpd.conf file say?
> 
> Only if he has several or virtual address's which will all have to have an
> entry/declaration even if their not used to give address out.
> 
ifconfig shows only eth0 and lo.  Nothing appears abnormal in any way. 
Even the routing table looked normal and the server itself was able to
surf the web as normal.  dhcpd just insisted on pukeing whenever I tried
to launch it.  As I've said elsewhere though, I think there must be
something going on either with the server or the network as we're
getting sharing violations with Samba that shouldn't be happening.  I
don't know what else on the network would cause this.  Immediately after
I changed the server IP I pinged the original IP to see what I'd find. 
Ping said there was nothing there.

?


-- 
Mike Rambo
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



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Re: [expert] LM 7.2 and beyond (part 2)

[David Boles]

On Fri, 20 Oct 2000 11:04:27 -0400 (EDT), Larry Marshall said:

 >  I think you're right but it's a tough call what to include/exclude.
 The
>  silly thing is that the first things the "ignorant" ones want to do is
>  play music, games and connect to napster.  I do believe that dumping the
>  wide variety of interfaces would be a huge step forward.  A simple "KDE
>  vs Gnome/Enlightnement" option would make things much easier.   

I kind of resent that Larry. 

I am one of those "ignorant" ones. Or at least I was. I came from
Sinclair Basic (1981), through Commodore Basic, Microsoft/IBM Basic,
Win 3.1, OS/2 v2.1, Warp 3, Warp 4, to Linux. Computer ignorant no,
Linux ignorant, of course. But I am learning. With a lot of reading and
help from some of you on these mailing lists. For which I am greatful.
Not all of us have degrees in C++, Perl, etc. My biggest complaint is
that the DOC files are written, of course, BY programmers but that they
are written FOR programmers. I don't need to be spoon fed directions
but to have to research every other word to decipher an instruction DOC
is a task. The DOCs read like they are in foreign language.

That would help many. 

I, personally, as an example, am having a problem getting diald
(Dial-on Demand) to work. To me the DOCs don't tell me much. Stuff like
if you want "something" do this, change this, etc. I am not sure what
something is or if I need it or want it. Or where "this file" or "that
file" is located. I have had help and suggestions from the lists but so
far no luck. I won't give up. I might go crazy. ;-) But I won't give
up.

This little problem would probably drive most Windows users away. They
have a "check-box" in their setup for auto dial. If they can find it.

  
-- 

David Boles
[EMAIL PROTECTED]




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Re: [expert] syslog restarts and other wierdness

[Mike Rambo]

Bill Shirley wrote:
> 
> I don't understand, dhcpd should just use the address of the NIC.  How
> does it know "the address is already in use"?
> 
> Perhaps there is more that one dhcpd running on the box.  What does the
> log file say?  What does the output from ifconfig say?  What does your
> dhcpd.conf file say?
> 
> Bill
> 

I don't understand either and I don't know why it's giving that
message.  Maybe I'll check with the dhcp mail list that ISC has.

I checked for the dhcpd pid.  There was none.  Nothing showed with ps ax
either.  ifconfig showed only the single ethernet card and lo and
displayed nothing out of the ordinary.  The dhcpd.conf file was
unchanged from it's initial setup (and was checked for correctness too -
it was/is ok).

As I said before ... totally baffled!  Something does appear to be going
on with this server though.  We've got what appear to be sharing
violations with Samba shares that shouldn't be occuring.  I haven't been
back on location yet so I don't know for sure.  That's for later this
afternoon.


-- 
Mike Rambo
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



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Re: [expert] logrotate

[Vincent Danen]

On Fri Oct 20, 2000 at 03:19:00PM +0300, turgut kalfaoglu wrote:

> On Thu, 19 Oct 2000 14:45:33 -0400, Bill Shirley wrote:
> >rm -Rf /var/log/news /var/log/mail
> >mkdir -m 755 /var/log/news /var/log/mail
> 
> Many thanks Bill and others for helping out!
> Two servers are now happy, with a cron job 
> to delete all files from the mail and news directories.

You really don't want to do this...  There is no need to make a cron
job to do this if you upgrade to the latest logrotate and sysklogd
from updates.
 
> Of course, that is not a cure; does anyone know how 
> servers without X can use MandrakeUpdate, or how
> else can I patch these servers?

Yeah, use an ftp client (ncftp, etc.) and connect to a mirror,
download the updates, then run "rpm -Fvh *.rpm" and upgrade the
packages.  Very easy.

-- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED], OpenPGP key available on www.keyserver.net
// Danen Consulting Serviceswww.danen.net, www.freezer-burn.org
// MandrakeSoft, Inc.   www.linux-mandrake.com
1024D/FE6F2AFD   88D8 0D23 8D4B 3407 5BD7  66F9 2043 D0E5 FE6F 2AFD

Current Linux uptime: 3 days 10 hours 27 minutes.



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Re: [expert] Troubles with ISDN and CD-Writing (fwd)

[Charles A Edwards]

- Original Message -
From: "Denis HAVLIK" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Expert list" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 11:16 AM
Subject: Re: [expert] Troubles with ISDN and CD-Writing (fwd)


>
>
> --
> -
> Dr. Denis Havlik
> Mandrakesoft||| e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Quality Assurance  (@ @)(private: [EMAIL PROTECTED])
> ---oOO--(_)--OOo-
> The mailserver is on strike. It wants better working conditions,
> paid days off and a female connector. ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
>
> -- Forwarded message --
> Date: 20 Oct 2000 15:05:28 +0200
> From: dam's <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: Denis HAVLIK <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [expert] Troubles with ISDN and CD-Writing (fwd)
>
> Denis HAVLIK <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > this could interest you
> >
> > --
> > -
> > Dr. Denis Havlik

> > Mandrakesoft||| e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Quality Assurance  (@ @)(private: [EMAIL PROTECTED])
> > ---oOO--(_)--OOo-
> > The mailserver is on strike. It wants better working conditions,
> > paid days off and a female connector. ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
> >
> > -- Forwarded message --
> > Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 13:54:36 +0200
> > From: Felix Chang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: [expert] Troubles with ISDN and CD-Writing
> >
> > Hello all,
> >
> > I use mandrake 7.1 and I like it very much. It is used for internet
> > connection sharing through isdn with several windows clients on the
> > network.
> >
> > I use the same machine for burning cd's. When I burn a cd, isdn
> > troughput drops to almost zero... What could be the cause (and
> > solution) of this?
>
> ??? strange
> The problem is for me, the CPU consomption. ISDN uses CPU, and if your
computer
> is not very strong, it can allow all its ressource to the burning...
> I don't know, maybe use 'nice' .. My 2 cents
>
> --
> dam's
>
>

Even on a fast system cd buring programs will use every cpu they can get
their hands on.
My system set up is such that I share a DSL connection on 3 machines. To
elininate the problem you are having I installed my cdrw on a machine other
than the one I use to connect to the internet ( basicly I using it as an
internet server) and do all mem and cpu intent activities on 1 of my other
system so that they do not affect my connection speed.

   Charles

   Charles




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Re: [expert] Troubles with ISDN and CD-Writing

[Alberto Vecchiato]

On Fri, 20 Oct 2000, Chang F.K.K. wrote:

> It can't be processor load... It's a K6 233 with 80 Megs,
> CD writer on /dev/hdc (or /dev/scd1) and cd-rom on /dev/hdb 
> (/dev/scd0).
> 
> During connection, processor load due to ISDN is about 10-15%.
> (System is idle for the rest). As soon as I start CD writing,
> ISDN drops to zero. Processor load during writing is 5%.
> 
Did you try to find which is the CPU load during the plain CD-burning?
Maybe even a 10-15% for ISDN is too much together with burning.

Alberto Vecchiato




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Re: [expert] LM 7.2 and beyond (part 2)

[Larry Marshall]

> I agree.  We need a 'newbie' install option that makes all the technical
> decisions for you, as well as the other install options for those with more
> knowledge.

Do you view a RH installation as being this sort of installation?  What
about Corel?  The problem I see with these installations is that if
autodetection fails in any way, the user has no recourse.  

> Also, we could use a more 'user-friendly' way for the 'newbie' to install
> additional packages at a later date.  An option to automagically

This is possible if you restrict your view to them actually buying them
(or getting them) from a single place and restrict what applications
you're talking about.  It's easy to control installation if you're holding
hte proprietary keys to setup/installation but given the nature of open
source and the free range of application developers, you're asking a lot
to generate standard installations.  It might be nice if we could get the
websites to better label whether this or that rpm requires compilation or
not though.  

> Another member of the group recommended taking out the repeated packages
> with similar functionality - I don't think that would work.  There would be
> far too many holy wars re-started as to what is taken out.  A better

Agreed but the problem could be partially solved by presenting ONLY the
KDE tool suite and/or GNOME suite.  They could stick vi, vim, and emacs on
the HD but not stick them on the menus.  It gets downright overwhelming
for a newbie to find no less than 8 basic editors and half a dozen
formatting tools on his menu system when all he want to do is write a
note.

Cheers --- Larry  




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Re: [expert] ./configure problem

[Matthew Micene]

On Fri, 20 Oct 2000, you wrote:

> > > Currently running Mandrake7.2rc1 with everything installed that I can
> > > think of.
> >
> > Some developpement libraries are on the second CD.. did you install them
> > as
> > well ?
> 
> Yes, ALL kde rpms have been installed and I still get this error during 
> ./configure.

which version of KDE do you have installed?  can you provide a list of the
kde packages you have installed (rpm -qa | grep kde > output ... or the
like :)?


-- 
Matthew Micene
Systems Development Manager
Express Search Inc.
www.ExpressSearch.com

A host is a host from coast to coast,
and no one will talk to a host too close
Unless the host that isn't close is busy, hung or dead



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Re: [expert] LM 7.2 and beyond (part 2)

[Larry Marshall]

> I sit on both edges  of the OS fence (I use M$ aat work and Linux at home.)
> Unfortunately, I can not see giving most of the users I work with any linux
> packages at all.  They would never get past the installations.  Does this
> mean they are ignorant.  Yep!  But, you would not want me doing brain
> surgery either.

Ignorant doesn't mean stupid but it often means they don't want to know
:-)  I agree with everything you say about needing to dumb-down Linux if
it's going to replace Windows on home machines where the only support is
the user.  But let me ask you a question.  How many of the people you work
with could install Win 98 and get stuff like network connections, CDWriter
operation and printer support functional without help?  I think we
sometime overstate the need for an auto-everything install for Linux as in
most work environments there are support people who come running if Joe's
MS Word won't load properly.  We've bred a generation of people who are
completely dependent upon tech support to keep the tool that is their
livelyhood going.  In that context, Linux is often easier for those tech
people to maintain so whether the person sits looking at a Linux desktop
behind their StarWriter window or W'98 with Word is largely a non-issue. 

> I think LM should be working towards an "ignorant user" install option as
> well (I like the ideas in the previous message!).  If you really want to

I think you're right but it's a tough call what to include/exclude.  The
silly thing is that the first things the "ignorant" ones want to do is
play music, games and connect to napster.  I do believe that dumping the
wide variety of interfaces would be a huge step forward.  A simple "KDE
vs Gnome/Enlightnement" option would make things much easier.   

Cheers --- Larry





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Re: [expert] Troubles with ISDN and CD-Writing

[Chang F.K.K.]

It can't be processor load... It's a K6 233 with 80 Megs,
CD writer on /dev/hdc (or /dev/scd1) and cd-rom on /dev/hdb 
(/dev/scd0).

During connection, processor load due to ISDN is about 10-15%.
(System is idle for the rest). As soon as I start CD writing,
ISDN drops to zero. Processor load during writing is 5%.

Renice'ing doesnt work: I made ipppd nice value -19 and 
cdrecord nice value 19 and no difference.

I hate this!!

Any more ideas, please?

Thanks in advance

Felix



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Re: [expert] Troubles with ISDN and CD-Writing (fwd)

[Denis HAVLIK]

-- 
-
Dr. Denis Havlik
Mandrakesoft||| e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Quality Assurance  (@ @)(private: [EMAIL PROTECTED])
---oOO--(_)--OOo-
The mailserver is on strike. It wants better working conditions,
paid days off and a female connector. ([EMAIL PROTECTED])

-- Forwarded message --
Date: 20 Oct 2000 15:05:28 +0200
From: dam's <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Denis HAVLIK <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [expert] Troubles with ISDN and CD-Writing (fwd)

Denis HAVLIK <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> this could interest you
> 
> -- 
> -
> Dr. Denis Havlik
> Mandrakesoft||| e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Quality Assurance  (@ @)(private: [EMAIL PROTECTED])
> ---oOO--(_)--OOo-
> The mailserver is on strike. It wants better working conditions,
> paid days off and a female connector. ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
> 
> -- Forwarded message --
> Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 13:54:36 +0200
> From: Felix Chang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: [expert] Troubles with ISDN and CD-Writing
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> I use mandrake 7.1 and I like it very much. It is used for internet
> connection sharing through isdn with several windows clients on the
> network.
> 
> I use the same machine for burning cd's. When I burn a cd, isdn 
> troughput drops to almost zero... What could be the cause (and 
> solution) of this?

??? strange
The problem is for me, the CPU consomption. ISDN uses CPU, and if your computer
is not very strong, it can allow all its ressource to the burning...
I don't know, maybe use 'nice' .. My 2 cents

-- 
dam's





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Re: [expert] Telnet server error

[Yann-Erick Proy]

faisal wrote:

> I have installed telnet server after my mandrake installation but it is not
> working it is also not appering in the startup programs !!
> By the way i install RPM from mandrake CD

The telnet server is called by the inetd metaserver whenever you attempt
a telnet connection on your server.

In order to have a working telnet server, you have to :

1/ check inetd is started at boot time (see /etc/rc3.d or /etc/rc5.d)
2/ check the in.telnetd line isn't commented out in /etc/inetd.conf
3/ check there is an in.telnetd line allowing connections in /etc/hosts.allow

Kind regards,

Yann 

-- 
Yann-Erick Proy  --  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Quartz Informatique  --  http://www.quartz.fr/  --  Annecy (F-74000)

La diversité est source de richesse.



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Re: [expert] LM 7.2 and beyond (part 2)

[Austin L. Denyer]

> This is my opinion.
>
> I sit on both edges  of the OS fence (I use M$ aat work and Linux at
home.)
> Unfortunately, I can not see giving most of the users I work with any
linux
> packages at all.  They would never get past the installations.  Does this
> mean they are ignorant.  Yep!  But, you would not want me doing brain
> surgery either.
>
> I think LM should be working towards an "ignorant user" install option as
> well (I like the ideas in the previous message!).  If you really want to
> convince the companies of "proprietary products" that the platform is one
> they need to pay attention to, then we have to convince the general public
> of the value of Linux as well.  That is never going to happen when they
can
> not do the first 5% (installation) in relative ease and lack of thought.
M$
> has the right idea when it comes to that 95% of the market that is
computer
> tech illiterate.  They take away the choices.  It keeps them (the user)
from
> being overwhelmed.
>
> To me, an "ignorant user" pacakge would come with a desktop or two to
choose
> from at install time, but only one gets installed.  Yeah - this flies in
the
> face of what most of us want on our systems.  But, before we are going to
> get the "masses" to use Linux/Un*x of any type, the confusion of
> installation (read too many choices) has to vanish.  The installation
> package would also contain the mainstream "products" that are being used
and
> agressively developed in the Linux/Un*x world.  But, only one or two
choices
> from each type, and GUI based.  Embrace what has worked for M$ (ease of
use
> up front, limited choices to the end user, ...) and extend it beyond their
> ability (Read stability, powere, etc in addition).  I hate being forced to
> make money on M$ products, and would love to see M$ replaced with a sane
> platform.  Believe it or not, it starts at the installation for most of my
> users.
>
> Outside of the use of FUD, these are the time proven tactics that M$ has
> used to squash competition and large scale innovation, and win support of
> the masses.
> What does everyone else think?

I agree.  We need a 'newbie' install option that makes all the technical
decisions for you, as well as the other install options for those with more
knowledge.

Also, we could use a more 'user-friendly' way for the 'newbie' to install
additional packages at a later date.  An option to automagically
install/download dependencies would be useful too - apologies if this is
already in the newer releases; I am still on 7.0 until the weekend.

Some Windoze applications have a 'basic' and 'expert' interface.  The basic
interface hides the complicated stuff from the user, but the expert
interface still allows all functionality for the more experienced user.

Another member of the group recommended taking out the repeated packages
with similar functionality - I don't think that would work.  There would be
far too many holy wars re-started as to what is taken out.  A better
approach would be to more clearly indicate the pros and cons of the
applications included, so that the user is better placed to make an informed
decision as to what he wants.

Just my $0.02 (Florida residents add 7% sales tax)

Regards,
Ozz.





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Re: [expert] ./configure problem

[Jon]

On Fri, 20 Oct 2000, you wrote:
> >
> > checking for KDE headers installed... configure: error: your system is
> > not able
> > to compile a small KDE application!
> > Check, if you installed the KDE header files correctly.
> >
> > I have gotten this error with every distribution that I've ran. 
> > Currently running Mandrake7.2rc1 with everything installed that I can
> > think of.
>
> Some developpement libraries are on the second CD.. did you install them
> as
> well ?

Yes, ALL kde rpms have been installed and I still get this error during 
./configure.




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Re: [expert] LM 7.2 and beyond (part 2)

[digiryde]

This is my opinion.

I sit on both edges  of the OS fence (I use M$ aat work and Linux at home.)
Unfortunately, I can not see giving most of the users I work with any linux
packages at all.  They would never get past the installations.  Does this
mean they are ignorant.  Yep!  But, you would not want me doing brain
surgery either.

I think LM should be working towards an "ignorant user" install option as
well (I like the ideas in the previous message!).  If you really want to
convince the companies of "proprietary products" that the platform is one
they need to pay attention to, then we have to convince the general public
of the value of Linux as well.  That is never going to happen when they can
not do the first 5% (installation) in relative ease and lack of thought.  M$
has the right idea when it comes to that 95% of the market that is computer
tech illiterate.  They take away the choices.  It keeps them (the user) from
being overwhelmed.

To me, an "ignorant user" pacakge would come with a desktop or two to choose
from at install time, but only one gets installed.  Yeah - this flies in the
face of what most of us want on our systems.  But, before we are going to
get the "masses" to use Linux/Un*x of any type, the confusion of
installation (read too many choices) has to vanish.  The installation
package would also contain the mainstream "products" that are being used and
agressively developed in the Linux/Un*x world.  But, only one or two choices
from each type, and GUI based.  Embrace what has worked for M$ (ease of use
up front, limited choices to the end user, ...) and extend it beyond their
ability (Read stability, powere, etc in addition).  I hate being forced to
make money on M$ products, and would love to see M$ replaced with a sane
platform.  Believe it or not, it starts at the installation for most of my
users.

Outside of the use of FUD, these are the time proven tactics that M$ has
used to squash competition and large scale innovation, and win support of
the masses.
What does everyone else think?
- Original Message -
From: "Buchan Milne" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 7:30 AM
Subject: Re: [expert] LM 7.2 and beyond (part 2)


>
>
> Larry Marshall wrote:
> >
> > >  Keep all the packages up-to-date
> >
> > Probably not a popular opinion but it makes more sense to keep most of
> > those packages one version behind the cutting edge in your official
> > distributions.  All you need to do is look at what's going on right now
> > with RH7.0 to see that being on the edge can spell lots of trouble.  If
> > you're going after the Windows user you can't have things crashing and
> > being incompatible as they just aren't going to buy into the "download
> > this and compile" model.
>
> This really depends on the package itself. Redhat was really stupid to
> release a package not supported by the developers. However, when, for
> example, samba 2.2.0 comes out, I would be very happy for Mandrake to
> ship a CD the next day that has RPMs on it. Why ? Because I know the
> samba team are almost religious about the stability of their software.
> They had samba 2.2.0-alpha0 running for more than 2 weeks without any
> problems before officially releasing the alpha0 snapshot.
>
> It comes down to a judgement call. I would advocate Mandrake even
> putting in cutting edge apps that are only available in the expert
> install.
>
> [snip]
> > > get rid of junk progs (WE NEED YOUR HELP HERE!)
>
> Maybe it would be an idea to have a web site where we can rate the
> current packages in Mandrake and elect new packages (I vote "no" from
> gnomba, and "yes" for LinNeighbourhood in advance!).
>
> > You know what I think? I think you need to change the way you divide up
> > the installation options.  You're doing a really good job of letting
> > experts select what they want installed.  You do nothing to allow
> > non-computer saavy people to do this.  v7.2 seems to even drop the
> > "normal/developer" option from the basic installation.  In one way that
> > makes sense why can't a less-than-expert person decide whether they want
> > games on their machine or not?
>
> The "custom" installation did cater for this in 7.0/7.1, is it still
> there in 7.2? (I'm still waiting for my 7.2beta3 CDs to arrive)
>
> The server installation should be more detailed, like having tickboxes
> for the following services:
> -web server (apache)
> -database server (MySQL/PostgreSQL)
> -dynamic web content (mod*, php etc / zope)
> -mail server (postfix/sendmail + imap/pop3)
> -Windows file+print server (samba)
> -Mac file+print server (netatalk)
> -Internet configuration server (DNS/DHCP)
> -Firewall
> -IP Masquerading
> -ftp server
> -Unix file+print server (NFS/LPD)
> -terminal server (telnet/ssh)
> -proxy server
> -Remote administration (webmin)
> (more ?)
>
> This could even be done with the "normal" and "development" choices
> -Office (abi gnumeric)
> -Graphics (gimp etc)
> -Multimedia (

[expert] VPN for linux using Winxx clients UPDATE

[Mads Rasmussen]

I still have problems finding PGPnet in a exportable version, the freeware
version 6.5.3 of PGP should include it. But.

Anyone knows of other clients?

However for people you would like to play around with this I found an
excelent howto.

Have a look at these links:

http://www.rommel.stw.uni-erlangen.de/~hshoexer/ipsec-howto/HOWTO.html
http://jixen.tripod.com/#Rw-PGP-to-Fwan

Regards,

Mads





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Re: [expert] LM 7.2 and beyond (part 2)

[Austin L. Denyer]

> > I've not tried the latest releases, but upgrading 6.5 to 7.0 didn't
work - I
> > had to totally re-install.
>
> 6.5 wasn't really Mandrake; it was MacMillan's repackaging of Mandrake
6.1.
> They broke a lot of thing in it, which caused no end of headaches for many
> users.  I was able to easily upgrade a 6.0 box to 6.1, then 7.0 and 7.1 as
> they came out.

That would explain a lot of things.  I have to admit that I was not overly
impressed with 6.5 - I downloaded 7.0 in desperation...

Anyway, I should have first-hand experience of 7.0 to 7.1 soon, as I'm
hopefully getting a copy of 7.1 from one of our LUG members tomorrow.  I'll
let y'all know how it goes...

Regards,
Ozz.





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[expert] Troubles with ISDN and CD-Writing

[Felix Chang]

Hello all,

I use mandrake 7.1 and I like it very much. It is used for internet
connection sharing through isdn with several windows clients on the
network.

I use the same machine for burning cd's. When I burn a cd, isdn 
troughput drops to almost zero... What could be the cause (and 
solution) of this?

Thanks in advance,

Felix Chang
Leyden, The Netherlands




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RE: [expert] logrotate

[turgut kalfaoglu]

On Thu, 19 Oct 2000 14:45:33 -0400, Bill Shirley wrote:
>rm -Rf /var/log/news /var/log/mail
>mkdir -m 755 /var/log/news /var/log/mail

Many thanks Bill and others for helping out!
Two servers are now happy, with a cron job 
to delete all files from the mail and news directories.

Of course, that is not a cure; does anyone know how 
servers without X can use MandrakeUpdate, or how
else can I patch these servers?

Thanks, -turgut



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Find all of Turkey online:  http://find.egenet.com.tr





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Re: [expert] logrotate

[Larry Marshall]

> > rm [Aa]*
> > rm [Bb]*
> > rm [Cc]*
> 
> I wrote a C program that would create a batch to do just that:
>   rm mail.err.%d.gz.%d.gz.%d.gz.%d.gz*
> where each %d goes from 1 to 9.. If I reduce it by 1 %d.gz, I get the

I didn't notice the front end of this thread so I'm not sure what's going
on but this looks like a dandy place for a Perl script.  The problem is I
don't know where these files are located.  But just to hint at a solution

ls | myscript.pl

with 

@files = 

will generate an array of file names.  You can then grab them one at a
time, do anything you want to change their names, and then execute the rm
command.
 
> Argument List too long. It's naturally quite inefficient, takes hours to
> run. I was hoping there was a Unix utility that would delete all files
> without first expanding the parameters..  

This hints that you're overrunning the bounds of rm with
filenames.  Again, a perl script might help.  If nothing else you can
stick those rm [Aa]*, rm [Bb]* commands into a single shell script.  No
need to get fancy I should think.  Sorry if I've completely misunderstood
the goal.

Cheers --- Larry







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Re: [expert] LM 7.2 and beyond (part 2)

[Buchan Milne]

Larry Marshall wrote:
> 
> >  Keep all the packages up-to-date
> 
> Probably not a popular opinion but it makes more sense to keep most of
> those packages one version behind the cutting edge in your official
> distributions.  All you need to do is look at what's going on right now
> with RH7.0 to see that being on the edge can spell lots of trouble.  If
> you're going after the Windows user you can't have things crashing and
> being incompatible as they just aren't going to buy into the "download
> this and compile" model.

This really depends on the package itself. Redhat was really stupid to
release a package not supported by the developers. However, when, for
example, samba 2.2.0 comes out, I would be very happy for Mandrake to
ship a CD the next day that has RPMs on it. Why ? Because I know the
samba team are almost religious about the stability of their software.
They had samba 2.2.0-alpha0 running for more than 2 weeks without any
problems before officially releasing the alpha0 snapshot.

It comes down to a judgement call. I would advocate Mandrake even
putting in cutting edge apps that are only available in the expert
install.

[snip]
> > get rid of junk progs (WE NEED YOUR HELP HERE!)

Maybe it would be an idea to have a web site where we can rate the
current packages in Mandrake and elect new packages (I vote "no" from
gnomba, and "yes" for LinNeighbourhood in advance!).
 
> You know what I think? I think you need to change the way you divide up
> the installation options.  You're doing a really good job of letting
> experts select what they want installed.  You do nothing to allow
> non-computer saavy people to do this.  v7.2 seems to even drop the
> "normal/developer" option from the basic installation.  In one way that
> makes sense why can't a less-than-expert person decide whether they want
> games on their machine or not?

The "custom" installation did cater for this in 7.0/7.1, is it still
there in 7.2? (I'm still waiting for my 7.2beta3 CDs to arrive)
 
The server installation should be more detailed, like having tickboxes
for the following services:
-web server (apache)
-database server (MySQL/PostgreSQL)
-dynamic web content (mod*, php etc / zope)
-mail server (postfix/sendmail + imap/pop3)
-Windows file+print server (samba)
-Mac file+print server (netatalk)
-Internet configuration server (DNS/DHCP)
-Firewall
-IP Masquerading
-ftp server
-Unix file+print server (NFS/LPD)
-terminal server (telnet/ssh)
-proxy server
-Remote administration (webmin)
(more ?)

This could even be done with the "normal" and "development" choices
-Office (abi gnumeric)
-Graphics (gimp etc)
-Multimedia (xmms and friends)
-Email

After selecting the combination of these services/features, one might
want to go on to a simple configuration screen for each one. For
example, the "Windows File and Print" could have  a screen that sets up
workgroup name, joins an NT domain or configures a PDC, shares printers.

If these "screens" are done well enough, and in a modular fashion, they
could be built into DrakConf (and eventually replace linuxconf!!).

You should look into the perl scripts that come with webmin. I think
they could be used as a backend (as they currently are to the web
interface) to a set of Mandrake front-ends.

I really hate the amount of wasted effort in linux/oss software. There
are so many projects that do similar things, yet aren't anywhere near
where they should be. For this reason, I would hope that Mandrake rather
support the development of webmin, for example, and make it's own cool
(but ncurses also for us CLI people) frontends to webmins perl scripts.

OK. Now I've given enough ideas to you mandrake to qualify for either
shares when you guys IPO, or for a job when I'm finished studying
(although I don't know what you would do with a mechanical engineer with
lots of linux/samba/NT/html/Matlab experience), whichever happens first!

Buchan


-- 
|--|
Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager
Cellphone   +27824722231
email   mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Centre for Automotive Engineering   http://www.cae.co.za
South Africas first satellite:http://sunsat.ee.sun.ac.za
Control Models  http://www.control.co.za
|Registered Linux User #182071-|



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[expert] KDM broken w/ LM7.2beta3 /kde 1.99

[Bruno Damour]

Hello

I have this strange problem after installing KDE 1.99 from LM7.2beta3 :  kdm
refuses to let any user log in and invariable answers 'login failed'.

I can though log in the console as usual and startx strats KDE 1.99 without
problem
I tried to run the login manager but nothing changed.

Any hints PLEASE ?

TIA.



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Re: [expert] adding a small iso to another iso

[Fabrice Medio]

Daniel Woods wrote:
 
> I''m hoping there is an easier way than unpacking them to
> hard drive and then creating a new iso image.
> 
> Thanks... Dan.

After having carefully studied both CD-Writing-HOWTO and
the mkisofs, it seems that there should be no other solution
than mounting -o loop the iso images, and doing the whole
thing again on your hard disk...

Fabrice



-- 
Fabrice Medio
MandrakeSoft Professional Services
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>



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Re: [expert] Upgrade from Suse 6.1..

[Fabrice Medio]

turgut kalfaoglu wrote:

> Does anyone know how feasable it is to upgrade a Suse machine (production!!)
> with the new Mandrake?
> 
> Would things crash and burn? :)
> Thanks, -turgut
> 

Seems _VERY_ dangerous... Althought Mandrake and SuSE
both use rpms, the internal conventions (rpm macros, paths...)
are not the same AT ALL.

I personnally wouldn't even think about it on production
machines.

Best regards,

Fabrice


-- 
Fabrice Medio
MandrakeSoft Professional Services
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>



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Re: [expert] gcc internal error

[Fabrice Medio]

> 
> I'm trying to compile the jikes compiler and I get an internal error when I
> do. Has anyone else seen this with 7.1?  I'd compiled it on 7.0 with no
> problem.
> 
> In file included from system.cpp:12:
> tuple.h: In method `void Tuple >::AllocateMoreSpace()':
> tuple.h:195:   instantiated from `Tuple >::NextIndex()'
> tuple.h:209:   instantiated from `Tuple >::Next()'
> semantic.h:186:   instantiated from here
> tuple.h:95: Internal compiler error.
> tuple.h:95: Please submit a full bug report.
> tuple.h:95: See http://www.gnu.org/software/gcc/faq.html#bugreport> for 
>instructions.
> 
> Before I file a bug report, I'd like to know if others have seen this
> behaviour before.


Templates have always been a pain for all C++ compilers...
You may want to try the most recent development versions
of g++, which you'll find on Cooker.

You can find your closest Cooker mirror after the list
you'll find here :
http://www.linux-mandrake.com/en/cookerdevel.php3

The latest gcc version is 2.96, and should work fine.
Should you have any further problems on that point,
don't hesitate to keep me posted.


Best regards,

Fabrice

--
Fabrice Medio
MandrakeSoft Professional Services
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>



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Re: [expert] ./configure problem

[Fabrice Medio]

Jon wrote:
> 
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format...
> 
> =_971990803-21800-1080
> Content-Type: text/plain
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
> 
> I get this error everyonce in a while when trying to configure and make a
> program.  It does not happen with every application, and for the life of me I
> cannot figure out how to correct it.  Can anyone shed some light on this
> error for me:
> 
> checking for KDE headers installed... configure: error: your system is not
> able
> to compile a small KDE application!
> Check, if you installed the KDE header files correctly.
> 
> I have gotten this error with every distribution that I've ran.  Currently
> running Mandrake7.2rc1 with everything installed that I can think of.

Some developpement libraries are on the second CD.. did you install them
as
well ?

-- 
Fabrice Medio
MandrakeSoft Professional Services
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>



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Pre-install selection (was:Re: [expert] LM 7.2 ...)

[Marco Fioretti]

Andrew George wrote:
(My original message pasted below)


> Umm...if you swap the WWW bit for a console...isn't this what dselect does?


I don't know, I haven't tried debian yet. Of course, every distro would
benefit from something like this.

My real point is that doing what I suggested in the original message
with
a WWW interface:

1) you can build your very own distribution even before your first LINUX
   install, and/or during lunch break at work, 10 minutes every day.
   All this while your PC is happily running non stop the previous
distro.

2) With this approach the actual install time is minimized, i.e. your PC
   remains offline only 1 or 2 hours, depending from the CPU and other
   issues. After that, you have almost nothing left to tweak.


Ciao,   

Marco




> 
> On Fri, 20 Oct 2000 09:41:13 +0200, Marco Fioretti said:
> 
> >  IMHO, it would be wonderful to do it on the www site BEFORE
> >  installing, something like this:
> >
> >
> >  1)   You get the package list from the site, and study
> >   it at your leisure, figuring out what you really
> >   need
> >
> >  2)   On the WWW site, maybe in several sessions, you
> >   select the packages you choose, and
> >
> >  3)   some CGI interface to RPM checks the dependencies
> >   saying "you should either add this or take that out".
> >   It shoud also tell you exactly how much HD space will
> >   be needed.
> >
> >  Repeat steps 2 and 3 as many times as needed, maybe going back
> >  to the site the day after, until all dependencies are sorted
> >  out.
> >
> >  4)   When the list is clean, it should be possible to
> >   save it on a floppy, so that
> >
> >  5)   When you actually install, and must select packages
> >   you can just put the floppy in, and the installation
> >   program will install all and only those packages.
> >   (this is going to be though on laptops not having
> >   CDROm and FLOPPY useable together. Ah, well)
> >
> >  Last but not least, all this should be possible also after
> >  installation. By this I mean that one installs, figures out
> >  in some weeks or months what he actually needs, and then, with
> >  the list said above, reconfigures everything with one keystroke,
> >  not running kpackage/rpm N times.
> >
> >
> >  Final note on point 2):at least in the first selection, one should
> >  have to select ONLY the **applications** (apache,window maker,
> >  perl, emacs...) not all the libraries they need, of which most people
> >  know nothing and care even less as long as the thing works.
> >
> >  Just my two cents,
> >
> >
> >
> >   Marco Fioretti



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Re: [expert] logrotate

[Turgut Kalfaoglu]

On Thu, 19 Oct 2000, Ron Johnson, Jr. wrote:
> >   [root@db2 mail]# rm *
> >   bash: /bin/rm: Argument list too long
> Divide and conquer:
> rm [Aa]*
> rm [Bb]*
> rm [Cc]*

I wrote a C program that would create a batch to do just that:
  rm mail.err.%d.gz.%d.gz.%d.gz.%d.gz*
where each %d goes from 1 to 9.. If I reduce it by 1 %d.gz, I get the
Argument List too long. It's naturally quite inefficient, takes hours to
run. I was hoping there was a Unix utility that would delete all files
without first expanding the parameters..  

=turgut

-
Turgut Kalfaoglu, EgeNet Internet Services http://www.egenet.com.tr
All of Turkey Online: http://find.egenet.com.tr




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Re: [expert] Masq f/w and DHCPd on dynamic Internet address

[Ron Stodden]

JASON SNYDER wrote:
> 
> A year and some change ago I scrounged together a computer, put mdk on
> it, and set it up as a masquerade firewall and DHCPd server for my cable
> modem at home.  I have a script that is run at boot (and is set up to be
> rerun at any time) to set up all of my ipchain rules and load kernel
> modules (like for ftp and such) and of course DHCPd has its config
> file.  (The ipchains script has global [script] variables to store IP
> address for interfaces, store interface is which and stuff like that.)

This sho8uld be useful information:

I have a cable modem which I installed to use dhcp.  After troubles
at the vendor, they suggested a fixed address, which I have been
using ever since.

Fossils of the dhcp installation still exist (in case I have to
return to it).

dhcp of course collects all the information needed from the dhcp
server, but it places it all in environment variables which are of
course lost when dhcp terminates.   However dhcp repeatedly calls
dh-client-script, so I placed a call to my two firewall scripts into
dhclient-script at the right point (where x$reason = xBOUND).  The
caller's environment variables are available to the callee.

The first script flushes all the ipchains rules, sets the default
policies, and sets up masquerading on the FORWARD chain.  It contains
CABLE="eth1" and uses $CABLE appropriately.

The second script (containing LOOPBACK_INTERFACE="lo" and
CABLE="eth1") adds all the other rules, making use of the following
dhcp environment variables: 

$new_ip_address
$new_network_number
$nameserver1
$nameserver2

This two-script structure is useful so that with my present fixed IPs
I can for diagnostic purposes take the firewall down without losing
the masquerading any time by manually running the first script and
put it back up again by manually running the second.

-- 
Regards,

Ron. [AU]



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Re: [expert] LM 7.2 and beyond (part 2)

[Andrew George]

On Fri, 20 Oct 2000 09:41:13 +0200, Marco Fioretti said:


>  IMHO, it would be wonderful to do it on the www site BEFORE
>  installing, something like this:
>  
>  
>  1)   You get the package list from the site, and study
>   it at your leisure, figuring out what you really
>   need
>  
>  2)   On the WWW site, maybe in several sessions, you
>   select the packages you choose, and
>  
>  3)   some CGI interface to RPM checks the dependencies
>   saying "you should either add this or take that out".
>   It shoud also tell you exactly how much HD space will
>   be needed.
>  
>  Repeat steps 2 and 3 as many times as needed, maybe going back
>  to the site the day after, until all dependencies are sorted
>  out.
>  
>  4)   When the list is clean, it should be possible to
>   save it on a floppy, so that
>  
>  5)   When you actually install, and must select packages
>   you can just put the floppy in, and the installation
>   program will install all and only those packages.
>   (this is going to be though on laptops not having
>   CDROm and FLOPPY useable together. Ah, well)
>  
>  Last but not least, all this should be possible also after
>  installation. By this I mean that one installs, figures out 
>  in some weeks or months what he actually needs, and then, with
>  the list said above, reconfigures everything with one keystroke,
>  not running kpackage/rpm N times.
>  
>  
>  Final note on point 2):at least in the first selection, one should
>  have to select ONLY the **applications** (apache,window maker,
>  perl, emacs...) not all the libraries they need, of which most people
>  know nothing and care even less as long as the thing works.
>  
>  Just my two cents,
>  
>  
>  
>   Marco Fioretti
Umm...if you swap the WWW bit for a console...isn't this what dselect does?
which brings me to something I've always been curious about...is it
problems with the RPM format that stops things like dselect and apt being
implemented on Mandrake?

OK I admit it...sometimes I wonder what a .deb based Mandrake would be like
:)

Andrew
(I know...I'm waffling...its been a bad day)



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[expert] Account Automatically After X

[SoloCDM]

How do I close user accounts automatically after X closes, because X
was initiated when selected users logged into their accounts?

Note: When you reply to this message, please include
  the mailing list and my email address.

*
Signed,
SoloCDM



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Re: [expert] LM 7.2 and beyond (part 2)

[Marco Fioretti]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>
>  package selection during install is too much work to do.
> 

Absolutely

IMHO, it would be wonderful to do it on the www site BEFORE
installing, something like this:


1)  You get the package list from the site, and study
it at your leisure, figuring out what you really
need

2)  On the WWW site, maybe in several sessions, you
select the packages you choose, and

3)  some CGI interface to RPM checks the dependencies
saying "you should either add this or take that out".
It shoud also tell you exactly how much HD space will
be needed.

Repeat steps 2 and 3 as many times as needed, maybe going back
to the site the day after, until all dependencies are sorted
out.

4)  When the list is clean, it should be possible to
save it on a floppy, so that

5)  When you actually install, and must select packages
you can just put the floppy in, and the installation
program will install all and only those packages.
(this is going to be though on laptops not having
CDROm and FLOPPY useable together. Ah, well)

Last but not least, all this should be possible also after
installation. By this I mean that one installs, figures out 
in some weeks or months what he actually needs, and then, with
the list said above, reconfigures everything with one keystroke,
not running kpackage/rpm N times.


Final note on point 2):at least in the first selection, one should
have to select ONLY the **applications** (apache,window maker,
perl, emacs...) not all the libraries they need, of which most people
know nothing and care even less as long as the thing works.

Just my two cents,



Marco Fioretti



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Re: [expert] CDWriter Question

[Ron Stodden]

"David M. Kufta" wrote:
> 
> I have installed 7.2 on a system and after install adde a CDRW ide/atapi
> drive. I configured the drive as described at MUO website and when I mount
> the drive with the command mount -t auto /dev/scd0 /mnt/cdrom it will only
> mount the cd read only. I have no clue why it is mounting in read only.
> I would appreciate any suggestions and possible fixes.

My goodness!  Here is ignorance!

There is nothing to fix.

The ide/ATAPI interface is to the reader portion of the device only. 
To use this you must mount the medium, a CDROM.  This is all
supported by the kernel and the operating system and other users can
share access in the usual controlled manner.

The writer side of the device has NO support in the kernel or in the
operating system.  The same is true in Windows, BTW.   The driver to
write CDs is contained within the cdrecord application (see man
cdrecord).   To write a CD, the medium must be placed in the drive,
but must NOT be mounted, since this is a dedicated physical operation
on the CD blank.   Physical operations on devices are done without
mounting, see e2fsck, dd, cdrecord, etc.   You must also be su'd to
be superuser 'root'.

This is a Linux convention since these operations must be protected
from visibility, direct or indirect, by, or distubance of, any of the
possibly many users also logged on, for example on a server.   They
are very specific dedicated non-sharable operations.  These things
are done 'underneath' the operating system.   If your server
specification requires this level of ability (alternative?), then
Windows would not be a candidate.

-- 
Regards,

Ron. [AU]



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