Re: [expert] Re: [Cooker] Mandrake Debian? - Hoyt's proposal
James wrote: True enough that a 486 isn't a speed deamon However my 486 amd running at 100mhz can run win98 and win2000 so why not kde? or Gnome (in fact it does it rather well I might add) Amen! My 50 Mhz 486 with 8 MB (Gateway Colorbook) runs Word 97 on Win95 acceptably! Randy Kramer Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://wwwmandrakestorecom
Re: [expert] Re: [Cooker] Mandrake Debian? - Hoyt's proposal
On Thursday 28 February 2002 02:12 am, you wrote: but when you are in a 25 mph zone a Ferrari is as fast as a Kia How much cpu power does it take to write an e-mail! James True And in response to an earlier post, Mandrake 70-486 is two years old the best part of m,asndraske are the admin and config tools -- much improvement in two years And kernel improvements? How about using reiserfs? And later 486 boards has PCI slots, so one could use a USB card with them It seems for 486 boxes, Red Hat (or SuSE) is the way to go -- Hoyt http://wwwmaximumhoytcom Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://wwwmandrakestorecom
Re: [expert] Re: [Cooker] Mandrake Debian? - Hoyt's proposal
On Thursday 28 February 2002 08:10 am, you wrote: James wrote: True enough that a 486 isn't a speed deamon However my 486 amd running at 100mhz can run win98 and win2000 so why not kde? or Gnome (in fact it does it rather well I might add) Amen! My 50 Mhz 486 with 8 MB (Gateway Colorbook) runs Word 97 on Win95 acceptably! Randy Kramer OT - And if you install Windows on those boxes using www98litenet, the things just scream -- Hoyt http://wwwmaximumhoytcom Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://wwwmandrakestorecom
Re: [expert] Re: [Cooker] Mandrake Debian? - Hoyt's proposal
On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 03:30:07 -0500 Hoyt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thursday 28 February 2002 02:12 am, you wrote: but when you are in a 25 mph zone a Ferrari is as fast as a Kia. How much cpu power does it take to write an e-mail! James True. And in response to an earlier post, Mandrake 7.0-486 is two years old. the best part of m,asndraske are the admin and config tools -- much improvement in two years. And kernel improvements? How about using reiserfs? And later 486 boards has PCI slots, so one could use a USB card with them. It seems for 486 boxes, Red Hat (or SuSE) is the way to go. The RULE project at http://www.freesoftware.fsf.org/rule/index.html is making it even easier for low memory boxes as well. James -- Hoyt http://www.maximumhoyt.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Re: [Cooker] Mandrake Debian? - Hoyt's proposal
On Mon, Feb 25, 2002 at 10:37:57PM -0500, Hoyt wrote: Sure. i have it, but it's -- 7.0 -- But to be honest, most of the really impressive advances that have happened since 7.0 have been in KDE/GNOME/other graphical interfaces and stuff like that. Most of the stuff that a 486 doesn't have the power to use effectively anyway. IMHO (emphasis on the H) 7.0 would probably work well, and then couldn't you upgrade from there using SRPMS? Have there been many kernel advances since 7.0 that would make it worthwhile on a 486 (by that I mean, not just driver advances for new equipment that a 486 won't have anyway)? Tom Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Re: [Cooker] Mandrake Debian? - Hoyt's proposal
On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 14:09:14 +1300 Tom Eastman [EMAIL PROTECTED] studiouisly spake these words to ponder: On Mon, Feb 25, 2002 at 10:37:57PM -0500, Hoyt wrote: Sure. i have it, but it's -- 7.0 -- But to be honest, most of the really impressive advances that have happened since 7.0 have been in KDE/GNOME/other graphical interfaces and stuff like that. Most of the stuff that a 486 doesn't have the power to use effectively anyway. IMHO (emphasis on the H) 7.0 would probably work well, and then couldn't you upgrade from there using SRPMS? Have there been many kernel advances since 7.0 that would make it worthwhile on a 486 (by that I mean, not just driver advances for new equipment that a 486 won't have anyway)? Tom Tom, one big advance since the 7.0 days that comes to mind would be iptables. I personally wouldn't know what to do without them anymore.-- daRcmaTTeR - Registered Linux User 182496 - 9:05pm up 7 days, 13:41, 1 user, load average: 0.01, 0.04, 0.00 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Re: [Cooker] Mandrake Debian? - Hoyt's proposal
And daRcmaTTeR has a great point here. Legacy hardware makes good firewalls in a cash-strapped (SOHO) environment...provided you're not anal about ISA bus limitations. Mike daRcmaTTeR wrote: On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 14:09:14 +1300 Tom Eastman [EMAIL PROTECTED] studiouisly spake these words to ponder: snipped for bandwidth Tom, one big advance since the 7.0 days that comes to mind would be iptables. I personally wouldn't know what to do without them anymore.-- daRcmaTTeR - Registered Linux User 182496 - 9:05pm up 7 days, 13:41, 1 user, load average: 0.01, 0.04, 0.00 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Re: [Cooker] Mandrake Debian? - Hoyt's proposal
On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 14:09:14 +1300 Tom Eastman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, Feb 25, 2002 at 10:37:57PM -0500, Hoyt wrote: Sure. i have it, but it's -- 7.0 -- But to be honest, most of the really impressive advances that have happened since 7.0 have been in KDE/GNOME/other graphical interfaces and stuff like that. Most of the stuff that a 486 doesn't have the power to use effectively anyway. IMHO (emphasis on the H) 7.0 would probably work well, and then couldn't you upgrade from there using SRPMS? Have there been many kernel advances since 7.0 that would make it worthwhile on a 486 (by that I mean, not just driver advances for new equipment that a 486 won't have anyway)? Tom True enough that a 486 isn't a speed deamon. However my 486 amd running at 100mhz can run win98 and win2000 so why not kde? or Gnome. (in fact it does it rather well I might add) The biggest limits are, installers that need 64 megs of ram, poor memory management in coding(the original Star office anyone), and the wait for kernels to compile (I cheat and throw the drive on a faster box) why not iptables... it doesn't take an Athlon 1800xp to run nat. I've got a p75 with 16 megs of ram working as my firewall. Since I rolled my own on that one I've got a 2.4 kernel and more running just fine. (hardly ever swaps even with the low mem.) IPtables are in and of themself worth the upgrade. In fact from lilo to command prompt it boots faster than my 1 gig. (hm) Why throw these boxes into land files when they can work so well. My business partner and the president of a local users group has a cluster of 386 and 486 boxes doing prime number generation (that cluster screems too.) (15 boxes and maybe 250 dollars invested) Granted Quake and StarCraft don't work well on one of these but when you are in a 25 mph zone a Ferrari is as fast as a Kia. How much cpu power does it take to write an e-mail! James Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Re: [Cooker] Mandrake Debian? - Hoyt's proposal
On Mon, 25 Feb 2002 22:37:57 -0500 Hoyt [EMAIL PROTECTED] studiouisly spake these words to ponder: On Monday 25 February 2002 10:01 pm, you wrote: On Sun, 24 Feb 2002 21:12:41 -0800 James [EMAIL PROTECTED] studiouisly spake these words to ponder: On Sun, 24 Feb 2002 20:16:46 -0500 gnerd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm with you, Hoyt, re: the 486 version of Mandrake. There's still a lot of legacy hardware out there that could use the Mandrake ease of use touch with optimized performance. They'd probably have to ditch X and go with some kind of SVGA solution (or maybe port one of the PDA Xes), but IMO it would be worthwhile. There's always TinyX. I've used it on a 4MB 486 laptop and a 16MB 386 (see LinuxFormat Dec/Jan issues). Um...guys? there is a version of Mandrake that came out for the 486. It was released as Mandrake 7.0 about a year or so ago. Sure. i have it, but it's -- 7.0 -- -- Hoyt wellyeah but if all you've got is a 486 at least it's Mandrake. I don't know if I could ever go back to anything earlier then 8.1 since I've been using it. -- daRcmaTTeR - Registered Linux User 182496 - 12:05pm up 6 days, 4:41, 3 users, load average: 0.38, 0.41, 0.35 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Re: [Cooker] Mandrake Debian? - Hoyt's proposal
On Tuesday 26 February 2002 12:32 pm, you wrote: Um...guys? there is a version of Mandrake that came out for the 486. It was released as Mandrake 7.0 about a year or so ago. Sure. i have it, but it's -- 7.0 -- -- Hoyt wellyeah but if all you've got is a 486 at least it's Mandrake. I don't know if I could ever go back to anything earlier then 8.1 since I've been using it. My suggestion would be for Mandrake to compile it and offer it only through the Mandrake Store or Club for $10 and find some way (even voluntarily) to keep it off ftp servers. I'd pay the $$ to support Mandrake and get a distro of that quality that will work on a 486. -- Hoyt http://www.maximumhoyt.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Re: [Cooker] Mandrake Debian? - Hoyt's proposal
My suggestion would be for Mandrake to compile it and offer it only through the Mandrake Store or Club for $10 and find some way (even voluntarily) to keep it off ftp servers. I'd pay the $$ to support Mandrake and get a distro of that quality that will work on a 486. It's an interesting idea, although I'm dubious on it's value to Mandrake. How many hours would it take to recompile all the RPM's to a less optimized state? Once they did, how many people would want a 486-optimized distro? These days, most folks look at Pentium/150's as very-low-end-might-be-too-slow-for-most-people machines, and even basic servers for things like routers and such are usually on Pentium/100+ machines... Let's say it only costs $10,000 (it's probably more man/machine hours/cost than that) to recompile everything (2,000 plus packages), and to reorganize things. At ten dollars a piece, it would take 1,000 people to purchase the CD's before MDK would even break even (and I truly doubt that there are more than say 2,000 or 3,000 people that would want such a CD set). -Tim -- Timothy R. Butler[EMAIL PROTECTED] Universal Networks http://www.uninet.info Christian Portal and Search Tool: http://www.faithtree.com Open Source Migration Guide: http://www.ofb.biz = Christian Web Services Since 1996 == Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Re: [Cooker] Mandrake Debian? - Hoyt's proposal
On Tue, 26 Feb 2002 15:42:42 -0500 Hoyt [EMAIL PROTECTED] studiouisly spake these words to ponder: On Tuesday 26 February 2002 12:32 pm, you wrote: Um...guys? there is a version of Mandrake that came out for the 486. It was released as Mandrake 7.0 about a year or so ago. Sure. i have it, but it's -- 7.0 -- -- Hoyt wellyeah but if all you've got is a 486 at least it's Mandrake. I don't know if I could ever go back to anything earlier then 8.1 since I've been using it. My suggestion would be for Mandrake to compile it and offer it only through the Mandrake Store or Club for $10 and find some way (even voluntarily) to keep it off ftp servers. I'd pay the $$ to support Mandrake and get a distro of that quality that will work on a 486. -- Hoyt I too would gladly pay for it. For my money Mandrake is the bomb. -- daRcmaTTeR - Registered Linux User 182496 - 8:05pm up 6 days, 12:41, 3 users, load average: 0.34, 0.37, 0.29 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Re: [Cooker] Mandrake Debian? - Hoyt's proposal
On Sun, 24 Feb 2002 21:12:41 -0800 James [EMAIL PROTECTED] studiouisly spake these words to ponder: On Sun, 24 Feb 2002 20:16:46 -0500 gnerd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm with you, Hoyt, re: the 486 version of Mandrake. There's still a lot of legacy hardware out there that could use the Mandrake ease of use touch with optimized performance. They'd probably have to ditch X and go with some kind of SVGA solution (or maybe port one of the PDA Xes), but IMO it would be worthwhile. I agree with the need for a 486 Mandrake. (I ahd to reinstall windbloze to my Libretto because I can't get a version of Linux that installs to it any more (hdd crash)) However shouldn't need to go with a mini X, after all 3.x X was running back in the days (not so long ago either) of RH 5.2 and Mandrake 6.0. Granted you won't have the latest AGP card driver but, I've never found an AGP card that worked well from an ISA slot *grin*. James Um...guys? there is a version of Mandrake that came out for the 486. It was released as Mandrake 7.0 about a year or so ago. I'll check my arc's for the postings refering to it, but I think you can find it on the Mandrake download pages as well. Unless, of course I'm totally full of it, which has been know to happen now and then. -- daRcmaTTeR - Registered Linux User 182496 - 9:05pm up 5 days, 13:41, 3 users, load average: 0.24, 0.39, 0.28 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Re: [Cooker] Mandrake Debian? - Hoyt's proposal
On Monday 25 February 2002 10:01 pm, you wrote: On Sun, 24 Feb 2002 21:12:41 -0800 James [EMAIL PROTECTED] studiouisly spake these words to ponder: On Sun, 24 Feb 2002 20:16:46 -0500 gnerd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm with you, Hoyt, re: the 486 version of Mandrake. There's still a lot of legacy hardware out there that could use the Mandrake ease of use touch with optimized performance. They'd probably have to ditch X and go with some kind of SVGA solution (or maybe port one of the PDA Xes), but IMO it would be worthwhile. There's always TinyX. I've used it on a 4MB 486 laptop and a 16MB 386 (see LinuxFormat Dec/Jan issues). Um...guys? there is a version of Mandrake that came out for the 486. It was released as Mandrake 7.0 about a year or so ago. Sure. i have it, but it's -- 7.0 -- -- Hoyt http://www.maximumhoyt.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Re: [Cooker] Mandrake Debian? - Hoyt's proposal
I'm with you, Hoyt, re: the 486 version of Mandrake. There's still a lot of legacy hardware out there that could use the Mandrake ease of use touch with optimized performance. They'd probably have to ditch X and go with some kind of SVGA solution (or maybe port one of the PDA Xes), but IMO it would be worthwhile. Mike Hoyt wrote: I'd rather see the effort put into a 486 version of Mandrake than into a Debian-Mandrake. I'd rather see APIC support fixed. I'd rather see the Auto Install Floppy option fixed. Hoyt Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Re: [Cooker] Mandrake Debian? - Hoyt's proposal
On Sun, 24 Feb 2002 20:16:46 -0500 gnerd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm with you, Hoyt, re: the 486 version of Mandrake. There's still a lot of legacy hardware out there that could use the Mandrake ease of use touch with optimized performance. They'd probably have to ditch X and go with some kind of SVGA solution (or maybe port one of the PDA Xes), but IMO it would be worthwhile. I agree with the need for a 486 Mandrake. (I ahd to reinstall windbloze to my Libretto because I can't get a version of Linux that installs to it any more (hdd crash)) However shouldn't need to go with a mini X, after all 3.x X was running back in the days (not so long ago either) of RH 5.2 and Mandrake 6.0. Granted you won't have the latest AGP card driver but, I've never found an AGP card that worked well from an ISA slot *grin*. James Mike Hoyt wrote: I'd rather see the effort put into a 486 version of Mandrake than into a Debian-Mandrake. I'd rather see APIC support fixed. I'd rather see the Auto Install Floppy option fixed. Hoyt Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
