RE: [expert] open source spreadsheet file format.
On Tue, 2003-04-01 at 10:46, Frankie wrote: its not in xls format... its currently csv, and as far as I know, having a perl script create xls format data would be quiet hard.. Also, I don't want to support M$ file formats.. Thats why I was hoping there was an rtf type format for spreadsheets. rgds Franki If you don't want to use *.xls, you can go with Lotus-123 format. You can also open it in OO, Excel, Quattro. -- 09:26:08 up 46 min, 3 users, load average: 0.18, 0.08, 0.09 Sun, 06 Apr 2003 09:26:08 -0400 __ / \\ @ __ __@ Adolfo Bello / [EMAIL PROTECTED] / // // /\ / \\ // \ // Bello Ingenieria S.A, ICQ: 65910258 / \\ // / \\ / // // / //mobile: +58 416 609-6213 /___// // / _/ \__\\ //__/ // fax : +58 212 952-6797 www.bisapi.com //pager : [EMAIL PROTECTED] The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes, but in having new eyes. (Marcel Proust) Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] open source spreadsheet file format.
On Sunday 06 Apr 2003 2:28 pm, Adolfo Bello wrote: On Tue, 2003-04-01 at 10:46, Frankie wrote: its not in xls format... its currently csv, and as far as I know, having a perl script create xls format data would be quiet hard.. Also, I don't want to support M$ file formats.. Thats why I was hoping there was an rtf type format for spreadsheets. rgds Franki If you don't want to use *.xls, you can go with Lotus-123 format. You can also open it in OO, Excel, Quattro. Actually, for many years 1-2-3 format was the standard. Recently my daughter sent a file in early 1-2-3 format to an accountant, thinking that any spreadsheet could read it, and he didn't even try. He just said he could not be expected to chase after an early version of Lotus 1-2-3! It's amazing how ignorant some people can be. I still think Excel would have opened it. Anne -- Registered Linux User No.293302 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [expert] open source spreadsheet file format.
by that same analogy, rtf should not exist either and data can be handed out as txt files with no formating... users could add the own formatting.. I am simply trying to see things though the eyes of our users, who vary form developers to complete computer newbies.. regards Franki -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of David E. Fox Sent: Thursday, 3 April 2003 1:54 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [expert] open source spreadsheet file format. I can make do assumptions about the systems of the end user... nor about their knowledge level. I can understand that. The end user will just get the data and import it into their favorite spreadsheet or what have you. And it's a given that html is not something that is going to come into a spreadsheet. Yet what I don't understand is a need for it to do so - why should there be an rtf for spreadsheets, as you put it? The formatting (as I see it) should remain in the spreadsheet. The data can be just brought in. Are your users spreadsheet neophytes in that you can't assume they will be able to (for instance) set column widths, decimals, and other cell attributes and that the spreadsheet should look a certain way? Franki Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [expert] open source spreadsheet file format.
On Thu, 2003-04-03 at 02:36, Frankie wrote: by that same analogy, rtf should not exist either and data can be handed out as txt files with no formating... users could add the own formatting.. I am simply trying to see things though the eyes of our users, who vary form developers to complete computer newbies.. ... see, that's your mistake -- empathizing with the users only leads to heartache. Tell 'em what they're getting and if they don't like it they can have an IBM Selectric and a ream of carbon paper :-) Seriously, you're right that the users will care about formatting -- I'm currently saddled with a hellish pricing tool that generates poorly formatted Excel sheets that I have to fix before sending out, and I do care. This gives you two options: 1) generate editable content. At this point in time there is only one standard that they will accept, and that is MS Excel. The end. I do the above editing in OpenOffice or Gnumeric, but I always work with the Excel file format. Ditto for Word, Power Point, etc. 2) generate non-editable content. This can be HTML or PDF. But if your users are going to reformat or edit, don't saddle them with this. Let them use spreadsheets to edit spreadsheets and word processors to edit documents, don't force them to fire up Mozilla Composer or Front Page to fix a typo. -- Jack Coates Monkeynoodle: A Scientific Venture... Are you compliant yet? ftp://ftp.rfc-editor.org/in-notes/rfc3514.txt Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [expert] open source spreadsheet file format.
yeah, I agree with all of that.. one other reason I am sticking with csv now is apparently it imports well into the most common australian accounts packages.. MYOB.. since most of them use it.. that seems to be a good reason rgds Franki -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jack Coates Sent: Friday, 4 April 2003 12:21 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [expert] open source spreadsheet file format. On Thu, 2003-04-03 at 02:36, Frankie wrote: by that same analogy, rtf should not exist either and data can be handed out as txt files with no formating... users could add the own formatting.. I am simply trying to see things though the eyes of our users, who vary form developers to complete computer newbies.. ... see, that's your mistake -- empathizing with the users only leads to heartache. Tell 'em what they're getting and if they don't like it they can have an IBM Selectric and a ream of carbon paper :-) Seriously, you're right that the users will care about formatting -- I'm currently saddled with a hellish pricing tool that generates poorly formatted Excel sheets that I have to fix before sending out, and I do care. This gives you two options: 1) generate editable content. At this point in time there is only one standard that they will accept, and that is MS Excel. The end. I do the above editing in OpenOffice or Gnumeric, but I always work with the Excel file format. Ditto for Word, Power Point, etc. 2) generate non-editable content. This can be HTML or PDF. But if your users are going to reformat or edit, don't saddle them with this. Let them use spreadsheets to edit spreadsheets and word processors to edit documents, don't force them to fire up Mozilla Composer or Front Page to fix a typo. -- Jack Coates Monkeynoodle: A Scientific Venture... Are you compliant yet? ftp://ftp.rfc-editor.org/in-notes/rfc3514.txt Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] open source spreadsheet file format.
On Tuesday 01 April 2003 11:46, Frankie wrote: its not in xls format... its currently csv, and as far as I know, having a perl script create xls format data would be quiet hard.. Is saving as HTML not an option? Damian Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [expert] open source spreadsheet file format.
The data is in a mysql database.. The webapp pulls that data out depending on what data they wanted and lists it in html tables.. I have created some reusable code so that if someone clicks download on one of those data pages, it tells the webapp to run the query again and open a download header and send it all down. This way I can have any of the dozen areas of the webapp pass a query onto the downloader code and have it run the query and start the download of the relevant query.. and before anyone tells me that passing the query in a form parameter is insecure, I'm not.. using a session file. It works now.. and its reusable code..so it'll do. rgds Franki -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of David E. Fox Sent: Wednesday, 2 April 2003 1:08 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [expert] open source spreadsheet file format. I have to write a webapp with a downlaod option for the data.. at present the format is in .csv (comma seperated values) OK, most if not all spreadsheets can take CSV. (csv is nearly identical to Basic DATA statement format, without the DATA tokens, in case anyone's wondering). It seems you have two issues: one of presentation, and one of transmission. It is true that CSV is limited, although the header can be transmitted as the first row of the data. For instance: SEQ,FNAME,LNAME,ACT 1000345,David,Fox,34 1000346,Paul,Jones,37 etc. Then the sheet or app at the other end can just import that, and the user knows what the columns are for. Now as far as presentation is concerned, you could have a perl script or such that would sisplay the data the sheet is about to download before it gets downloaded -- however the real data is still preserved in CSV form. I used to work in an environment where I was getting new sheet data daily and incorporating it into spreadsheets and other things. I seem to recall the presentation of data was done with Java. Franki Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [expert] open source spreadsheet file format.
sort of yes... I can make do assumptions about the systems of the end user... nor about their knowledge level. in 90% of office suites, .csv will open in the spreadsheet app.. html files will not.. Therein lies the problem.. CSV is working now.. and its readable in the download file.. so it'll have to do till someone comes up with rtf for spreadsheets. regards Franki -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Damian Gatabria Sent: Wednesday, 2 April 2003 6:20 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [expert] open source spreadsheet file format. On Tuesday 01 April 2003 11:46, Frankie wrote: its not in xls format... its currently csv, and as far as I know, having a perl script create xls format data would be quiet hard.. Is saving as HTML not an option? Damian Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] open source spreadsheet file format.
I can make do assumptions about the systems of the end user... nor about their knowledge level. I can understand that. The end user will just get the data and import it into their favorite spreadsheet or what have you. And it's a given that html is not something that is going to come into a spreadsheet. Yet what I don't understand is a need for it to do so - why should there be an rtf for spreadsheets, as you put it? The formatting (as I see it) should remain in the spreadsheet. The data can be just brought in. Are your users spreadsheet neophytes in that you can't assume they will be able to (for instance) set column widths, decimals, and other cell attributes and that the spreadsheet should look a certain way? Franki Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] open source spreadsheet file format.
On Tuesday 01 Apr 2003 3:10 pm, Frankie wrote: Hi guys, I have to write a webapp with a downlaod option for the data.. at present the format is in .csv (comma seperated values) however there are massive limitations to what csv can display. notably there is no way to make headers of format the data at all In word processors we have rich text format (.rtf) is there anything available that does the same thing for spreadsheets? It must be openable in excel, lotus etc.. and hopefully openoffice as well... Does anyone have any suggestions on this one?? Stating the obvious, Franki, but couldn't it stay as a spreadsheet? .xls can be opened in Excel, Lotus 1-2-3 (as long as you are not using the latest edition additions) and OOo - though if macros were involved it would be more difficult. If you need to test anything against Lotus 1-2-3 you could send it to me - I'm happy to help. Anne -- Registered Linux User No.293302 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [expert] open source spreadsheet file format.
its not in xls format... its currently csv, and as far as I know, having a perl script create xls format data would be quiet hard.. Also, I don't want to support M$ file formats.. Thats why I was hoping there was an rtf type format for spreadsheets. rgds Franki -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Anne Wilson Sent: Tuesday, 1 April 2003 10:20 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [expert] open source spreadsheet file format. On Tuesday 01 Apr 2003 3:10 pm, Frankie wrote: Hi guys, I have to write a webapp with a downlaod option for the data.. at present the format is in .csv (comma seperated values) however there are massive limitations to what csv can display. notably there is no way to make headers of format the data at all In word processors we have rich text format (.rtf) is there anything available that does the same thing for spreadsheets? It must be openable in excel, lotus etc.. and hopefully openoffice as well... Does anyone have any suggestions on this one?? Stating the obvious, Franki, but couldn't it stay as a spreadsheet? .xls can be opened in Excel, Lotus 1-2-3 (as long as you are not using the latest edition additions) and OOo - though if macros were involved it would be more difficult. If you need to test anything against Lotus 1-2-3 you could send it to me - I'm happy to help. Anne -- Registered Linux User No.293302 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] open source spreadsheet file format.
On Tuesday 01 Apr 2003 3:46 pm, Frankie wrote: its not in xls format... its currently csv, and as far as I know, having a perl script create xls format data would be quiet hard.. I suggested this because just about any spreadsheet can read/write .xls. I use Gnumeric, and use .xls to cross-platform files. Equally, just about all will read in .cvs files. Also, I don't want to support M$ file formats.. Understood - but being practical, it's there, available to all, and so far as I know M$ does not benefit one iota by your using it. Your choice - just what linux is about g Anne -- Registered Linux User No.293302 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] open source spreadsheet file format.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday 01 April 2003 10:07 am, Anne Wilson wrote: On Tuesday 01 Apr 2003 3:46 pm, Frankie wrote: its not in xls format... its currently csv, and as far as I know, having a perl script create xls format data would be quiet hard.. I suggested this because just about any spreadsheet can read/write .xls. I use Gnumeric, and use .xls to cross-platform files. Equally, just about all will read in .cvs files. Also, I don't want to support M$ file formats.. Understood - but being practical, it's there, available to all, and so far as I know M$ does not benefit one iota by your using it. Your choice - just what linux is about g I certainly understand the desire to not support M$ file formats. Even though M$ doesn't gain directly from such support, they do peripherally. It perpetuates the use of M$ software and the idea that M$ is a standard that people need to follow. This sort of thinking is one of the reasons that people seem to automatically assume that it is OK to send you a *.doc file because, NATURALLY, you will use Windoze and/or Word. Of COURSE it is acceptable to send *.doc files or request/require doc files because everyone uses Word/windoze. It is better to encourage use of more democratic/open formats, kill the assumption that everyone uses M$ products and they are all that exist or are useful. It is handy to be able to read other people's files, regardless of the app they used to create it, but it is better if a more universally available and untied format is used. It irritates me when I receive a doc file from a family member who has made the above erroneous assumption. This is an endemic problem that can best be addressed by using open formats whenever possible in preference to ANY closed format. - -- Gods are fragile things; they may be killed by a whiff of science or a dose of common sense. -- Chapman Cohen Fingerprint: D170 2A02 B426 6AA0 5E68 3EDC 68AA FDB0 961E 4F18 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+ibIcaKr9sJYeTxgRAlxnAJ9p6rTJCSs/t190/Mbkd3MspC0BwgCgr+sw LwExnYhP5HOhvXrJFml0es0= =mMuA -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [expert] open source spreadsheet file format.
thats great do u have a suggestion for me as to a spreadsheet format ??? Its strange.. rtf has been around for many years.. but noone has greated a spreadsheet version? seems odd.. rgds Franki -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Praedor Atrebates Sent: Tuesday, 1 April 2003 11:37 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [expert] open source spreadsheet file format. -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday 01 April 2003 10:07 am, Anne Wilson wrote: On Tuesday 01 Apr 2003 3:46 pm, Frankie wrote: its not in xls format... its currently csv, and as far as I know, having a perl script create xls format data would be quiet hard.. I suggested this because just about any spreadsheet can read/write .xls. I use Gnumeric, and use .xls to cross-platform files. Equally, just about all will read in .cvs files. Also, I don't want to support M$ file formats.. Understood - but being practical, it's there, available to all, and so far as I know M$ does not benefit one iota by your using it. Your choice - just what linux is about g I certainly understand the desire to not support M$ file formats. Even though M$ doesn't gain directly from such support, they do peripherally. It perpetuates the use of M$ software and the idea that M$ is a standard that people need to follow. This sort of thinking is one of the reasons that people seem to automatically assume that it is OK to send you a *.doc file because, NATURALLY, you will use Windoze and/or Word. Of COURSE it is acceptable to send *.doc files or request/require doc files because everyone uses Word/windoze. It is better to encourage use of more democratic/open formats, kill the assumption that everyone uses M$ products and they are all that exist or are useful. It is handy to be able to read other people's files, regardless of the app they used to create it, but it is better if a more universally available and untied format is used. It irritates me when I receive a doc file from a family member who has made the above erroneous assumption. This is an endemic problem that can best be addressed by using open formats whenever possible in preference to ANY closed format. - -- Gods are fragile things; they may be killed by a whiff of science or a dose of common sense. -- Chapman Cohen Fingerprint: D170 2A02 B426 6AA0 5E68 3EDC 68AA FDB0 961E 4F18 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+ibIcaKr9sJYeTxgRAlxnAJ9p6rTJCSs/t190/Mbkd3MspC0BwgCgr+sw LwExnYhP5HOhvXrJFml0es0= =mMuA -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [expert] open source spreadsheet file format.
I would suggest trying HTML. Since you're using Perl, it should be a no brainier to create an HTML file that you can feed to whatever your client is. I just tried a simple HTML file with both Excel (via CrossOver Office) and OpenOffice. I don't have Lotus, but I have to assume that it would work. Anne? The HTML worked great with one caveat. OpenOffice has a web authoring feature that thinks it knows better than I do what app to open when I ask it to load HTML files. Thus, if you call your spreadsheet spreadsheetdata.html, OpenOffice will happily open the HTML in it's web editor. I could not figure out how to stop that behavior without some serious tweaking in OpenOffice's configuration. The only way I found (in admittedly about 2 minutes of trying) to work around this problem was to call the HTML file spreadsheetdata.html.xls. That way, OpenOffice thinks it's a spreadsheet and opens it in the right application. I choose to keep the HTML part just so that folks know it's really HTML and not binary Excel data. Hope this helps! David -Original Message- From: Frankie [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 7:11 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [expert] open source spreadsheet file format. Hi guys, I have to write a webapp with a downlaod option for the data.. at present the format is in .csv (comma seperated values) however there are massive limitations to what csv can display. notably there is no way to make headers of format the data at all In word processors we have rich text format (.rtf) is there anything available that does the same thing for spreadsheets? It must be openable in excel, lotus etc.. and hopefully openoffice as well... Does anyone have any suggestions on this one?? regards Franki Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [expert] open source spreadsheet file format.
On Tue, 2003-04-01 at 07:51, Frankie wrote: thats great do u have a suggestion for me as to a spreadsheet format ??? .sxw if you must be free, and encourage people to use OpenOffice on all platforms, or .xls if you want to get to practical working state quickly. Or if you really want to spend some time, look into content managment platforms with conversion capabilities -- I think Plone can do some of this sort of work, and is supposed to have good OpenOffice/StarOffice support. Its strange.. rtf has been around for many years.. but noone has greated a spreadsheet version? nope. seems odd.. rgds Franki -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Praedor Atrebates Sent: Tuesday, 1 April 2003 11:37 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [expert] open source spreadsheet file format. -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday 01 April 2003 10:07 am, Anne Wilson wrote: On Tuesday 01 Apr 2003 3:46 pm, Frankie wrote: its not in xls format... its currently csv, and as far as I know, having a perl script create xls format data would be quiet hard.. I suggested this because just about any spreadsheet can read/write .xls. I use Gnumeric, and use .xls to cross-platform files. Equally, just about all will read in .cvs files. Also, I don't want to support M$ file formats.. Understood - but being practical, it's there, available to all, and so far as I know M$ does not benefit one iota by your using it. Your choice - just what linux is about g I certainly understand the desire to not support M$ file formats. Even though M$ doesn't gain directly from such support, they do peripherally. It perpetuates the use of M$ software and the idea that M$ is a standard that people need to follow. This sort of thinking is one of the reasons that people seem to automatically assume that it is OK to send you a *.doc file because, NATURALLY, you will use Windoze and/or Word. Of COURSE it is acceptable to send *.doc files or request/require doc files because everyone uses Word/windoze. It is better to encourage use of more democratic/open formats, kill the assumption that everyone uses M$ products and they are all that exist or are useful. It is handy to be able to read other people's files, regardless of the app they used to create it, but it is better if a more universally available and untied format is used. It irritates me when I receive a doc file from a family member who has made the above erroneous assumption. This is an endemic problem that can best be addressed by using open formats whenever possible in preference to ANY closed format. - -- Gods are fragile things; they may be killed by a whiff of science or a dose of common sense. -- Chapman Cohen Fingerprint: D170 2A02 B426 6AA0 5E68 3EDC 68AA FDB0 961E 4F18 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+ibIcaKr9sJYeTxgRAlxnAJ9p6rTJCSs/t190/Mbkd3MspC0BwgCgr+sw LwExnYhP5HOhvXrJFml0es0= =mMuA -END PGP SIGNATURE- __ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com -- Jack Coates Monkeynoodle: A Scientific Venture... Are you compliant yet? ftp://ftp.rfc-editor.org/in-notes/rfc3514.txt Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] open source spreadsheet file format.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday 01 April 2003 10:58 am, Jack Coates wrote: On Tue, 2003-04-01 at 07:51, Frankie wrote: thats great do u have a suggestion for me as to a spreadsheet format ??? .sxw if you must be free, and encourage people to use OpenOffice on all platforms, or .xls if you want to get to practical working state So what IS wrong with *.csv? You can format it so that it is compatible with windoze or Mac or linux/unix. It is a simple text file and is importable readable by virtually anything (as Anna stated). I too have used .xls, but it depends on my audience/target. For the broad, general sense such that ANYONE could use your file regardless, I would think .csv would work. If you know your target will use excel, then by all means use .xls. If I want to analyze my data, I save it as .csv and then can import it as a data file for grace or similar app. If it is merely a basic spreadsheet, it almost doesn't matter. My problem here is that I jumped in at a latter stage of the discussion and haven't really seen the previous messages beyond the last 3 or 4. - -- Gods are fragile things; they may be killed by a whiff of science or a dose of common sense. -- Chapman Cohen Fingerprint: D170 2A02 B426 6AA0 5E68 3EDC 68AA FDB0 961E 4F18 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+ibk7aKr9sJYeTxgRAhSNAJ0WIa7eVbpSPF/R2u+AxAPOVUt+ggCdGx4r eApi51ZVkD0g/RdW2fJL4ds= =TYXi -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] open source spreadsheet file format.
On Tuesday 01 Apr 2003 4:36 pm, Praedor Atrebates wrote: I certainly understand the desire to not support M$ file formats. Even though M$ doesn't gain directly from such support, they do peripherally. It perpetuates the use of M$ software and the idea that M$ is a standard that people need to follow. This sort of thinking is one of the reasons that people seem to automatically assume that it is OK to send you a *.doc file because, NATURALLY, you will use Windoze and/or Word. Of COURSE it is acceptable to send *.doc files or request/require doc files because everyone uses Word/windoze. It is better to encourage use of more democratic/open formats, kill the assumption that everyone uses M$ products and they are all that exist or are useful. It is handy to be able to read other people's files, regardless of the app they used to create it, but it is better if a more universally available and untied format is used. It irritates me when I receive a doc file from a family member who has made the above erroneous assumption. This is an endemic problem that can best be addressed by using open formats whenever possible in preference to ANY closed format. Fish and fruit, IMHO. .doc files are unnecessary, for the most part, because .rtf can deal with most of what people want to do. With spreadsheets I have not found any universally read file format if formatting needs to be kept. .csv is fine if it doesn't. Until there's an option, I use what's there. I'll change if you can show me one. Anne -- Registered Linux User No.293302 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] open source spreadsheet file format.
On Tuesday 01 Apr 2003 4:58 pm, Jack Coates wrote: On Tue, 2003-04-01 at 07:51, Frankie wrote: thats great do u have a suggestion for me as to a spreadsheet format ??? .sxw if you must be free, and encourage people to use OpenOffice on all platforms, or .xls if you want to get to practical working state quickly. Or if you really want to spend some time, look into content managment platforms with conversion capabilities -- I think Plone can do some of this sort of work, and is supposed to have good OpenOffice/StarOffice support. But until Open Office is widely used under windows it's no good for most people. Of course, go on trying to spread the work - I do - but in the short term .sxw doesn't help. I am slightly prejudiced against .sxw as a solution on two other counts - a) OOo and SO6 have proved far from stable on my box and b) they're another proprietary format, even if they are open source. We need an open, widely supported format. Anne -- Registered Linux User No.293302 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] open source spreadsheet file format.
On Tuesday 01 Apr 2003 5:07 pm, Praedor Atrebates wrote: So what IS wrong with *.csv? You can format it so that it is compatible with windoze or Mac or linux/unix. It is a simple text file and is importable readable by virtually anything (as Anna stated). The original post said that he had .csv, but it didn't retain formatting. Anne -- Registered Linux User No.293302 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] open source spreadsheet file format.
On Tuesday 01 Apr 2003 4:55 pm, JOHAM,DAVID (HP-Boise,ex1) wrote: I would suggest trying HTML. Since you're using Perl, it should be a no brainier to create an HTML file that you can feed to whatever your client is. I just tried a simple HTML file with both Excel (via CrossOver Office) and OpenOffice. I don't have Lotus, but I have to assume that it would work. Anne? I've never tried it, David. If you would like to send me a test html spreadsheet I will try it and report back. Anne -- Registered Linux User No.293302 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [expert] open source spreadsheet file format.
Thanks! I'll send the file via private Email in a minute or so... David -Original Message- From: Anne Wilson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 9:18 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [expert] open source spreadsheet file format. On Tuesday 01 Apr 2003 4:55 pm, JOHAM,DAVID (HP-Boise,ex1) wrote: I would suggest trying HTML. Since you're using Perl, it should be a no brainier to create an HTML file that you can feed to whatever your client is. I just tried a simple HTML file with both Excel (via CrossOver Office) and OpenOffice. I don't have Lotus, but I have to assume that it would work. Anne? I've never tried it, David. If you would like to send me a test html spreadsheet I will try it and report back. Anne -- Registered Linux User No.293302 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] open source spreadsheet file format.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday 01 April 2003 11:18 am, Anne Wilson wrote: On Tuesday 01 Apr 2003 4:55 pm, JOHAM,DAVID (HP-Boise,ex1) wrote: I would suggest trying HTML. Since you're using Perl, it should be a no brainier to create an HTML file that you can feed to whatever your client is. I just tried a simple HTML file with both Excel (via CrossOver Office) and OpenOffice. I don't have Lotus, but I have to assume that it would work. Anne? I've never tried it, David. If you would like to send me a test html spreadsheet I will try it and report back. I have never really played with the other formats myself. I did just try using gnumeric, saving a test spreadsheet as html (3.2) and then importing the html into kspread. It is bungled. The information is there but it is intercalated into other file text. Is there a particular method to bringing html into each spreadsheet app or is kspread retarded? Could someone else with more experience that way give it a shot as well? praedor - -- Gods are fragile things; they may be killed by a whiff of science or a dose of common sense. -- Chapman Cohen Fingerprint: D170 2A02 B426 6AA0 5E68 3EDC 68AA FDB0 961E 4F18 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+ib7QaKr9sJYeTxgRAvYgAJ4rWg6YlYtmvocw4R3N/kpLN4YDzQCgjWsW NxvNxuJKLDNRcJzDbefVBWk= =chMJ -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [expert] open source spreadsheet file format.
csv is not good for formatting or table headings and the like.. The data is about 8gig of debt collection data.. and without headings it is gibberish.. whats why I was hoping there was a format that allowed just basic formatting.. rgds Franki -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Praedor Atrebates Sent: Wednesday, 2 April 2003 12:07 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [expert] open source spreadsheet file format. -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday 01 April 2003 10:58 am, Jack Coates wrote: On Tue, 2003-04-01 at 07:51, Frankie wrote: thats great do u have a suggestion for me as to a spreadsheet format ??? .sxw if you must be free, and encourage people to use OpenOffice on all platforms, or .xls if you want to get to practical working state So what IS wrong with *.csv? You can format it so that it is compatible with windoze or Mac or linux/unix. It is a simple text file and is importable readable by virtually anything (as Anna stated). I too have used .xls, but it depends on my audience/target. For the broad, general sense such that ANYONE could use your file regardless, I would think .csv would work. If you know your target will use excel, then by all means use .xls. If I want to analyze my data, I save it as .csv and then can import it as a data file for grace or similar app. If it is merely a basic spreadsheet, it almost doesn't matter. My problem here is that I jumped in at a latter stage of the discussion and haven't really seen the previous messages beyond the last 3 or 4. - -- Gods are fragile things; they may be killed by a whiff of science or a dose of common sense. -- Chapman Cohen Fingerprint: D170 2A02 B426 6AA0 5E68 3EDC 68AA FDB0 961E 4F18 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+ibk7aKr9sJYeTxgRAhSNAJ0WIa7eVbpSPF/R2u+AxAPOVUt+ggCdGx4r eApi51ZVkD0g/RdW2fJL4ds= =TYXi -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] open source spreadsheet file format.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday 01 April 2003 11:18 am, Anne Wilson wrote: On Tuesday 01 Apr 2003 4:55 pm, JOHAM,DAVID (HP-Boise,ex1) wrote: I would suggest trying HTML. Since you're using Perl, it should be a no brainier to create an HTML file that you can feed to whatever your client is. I just tried a simple HTML file with both Excel (via CrossOver Office) and OpenOffice. I don't have Lotus, but I have to assume that it would work. Anne? I've never tried it, David. If you would like to send me a test html spreadsheet I will try it and report back. David mentions he did open it fine in OpenOffice. Was that in OO write or within the OO calc? I see that gnumeric html output is opened perfectly within gnumeric (big suprise) but is not properly handled by kspread nor StarOffice 6.1 (beta) and, I would presume, 6.0. It opens the html spreadsheet in writer rather than in the spreadsheet. Excel properly imports html and places it within the spreadsheet cells? I don't have excel to play with. - -- Gods are fragile things; they may be killed by a whiff of science or a dose of common sense. -- Chapman Cohen Fingerprint: D170 2A02 B426 6AA0 5E68 3EDC 68AA FDB0 961E 4F18 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+icGfaKr9sJYeTxgRAm+4AJ9wn3t1gxFBM3lAzPNxW9HN5rwX/gCcDJov Tsr8gK2wekwQ7eAUHDChzrI= =0yFw -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [expert] open source spreadsheet file format.
I was able to get it to open in OO.o Calc only after naming the html file spreadsheet.html.xls. The .xls extension is required or OO.o opens the file (as you saw) in it's silly HTML editor. I couldn't get the HTML I created to work in either gnumeric or kspread. kspread looks like it just tries to import the file as a regular text file. gnumeric 1.0.4 seems to depend on some formatting in the HTML to be there before it will open and display the data. This header goofs up Excel and OO.o a little bit. The idea behind HTML is that it's a good presentation format. For those who can upload the HTML into a spreadsheet it's a dandy format for manipulation as well. For those who can't, well, at least the data can be viewed in a browser or read in plain text. It's the most cross platform solution I can think of... David -Original Message- From: Praedor Atrebates [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 9:43 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [expert] open source spreadsheet file format. -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday 01 April 2003 11:18 am, Anne Wilson wrote: On Tuesday 01 Apr 2003 4:55 pm, JOHAM,DAVID (HP-Boise,ex1) wrote: I would suggest trying HTML. Since you're using Perl, it should be a no brainier to create an HTML file that you can feed to whatever your client is. I just tried a simple HTML file with both Excel (via CrossOver Office) and OpenOffice. I don't have Lotus, but I have to assume that it would work. Anne? I've never tried it, David. If you would like to send me a test html spreadsheet I will try it and report back. David mentions he did open it fine in OpenOffice. Was that in OO write or within the OO calc? I see that gnumeric html output is opened perfectly within gnumeric (big suprise) but is not properly handled by kspread nor StarOffice 6.1 (beta) and, I would presume, 6.0. It opens the html spreadsheet in writer rather than in the spreadsheet. Excel properly imports html and places it within the spreadsheet cells? I don't have excel to play with. - -- Gods are fragile things; they may be killed by a whiff of science or a dose of common sense. -- Chapman Cohen Fingerprint: D170 2A02 B426 6AA0 5E68 3EDC 68AA FDB0 961E 4F18 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+icGfaKr9sJYeTxgRAm+4AJ9wn3t1gxFBM3lAzPNxW9HN5rwX/gCcDJov Tsr8gK2wekwQ7eAUHDChzrI= =0yFw -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] open source spreadsheet file format.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday 01 April 2003 11:57 am, JOHAM,DAVID (HP-Boise,ex1) wrote: I was able to get it to open in OO.o Calc only after naming the html file spreadsheet.html.xls. The .xls extension is required or OO.o opens the file (as you saw) in it's silly HTML editor. [...] The idea behind HTML is that it's a good presentation format. For those who can upload the HTML into a spreadsheet it's a dandy format for manipulation as well. For those who can't, well, at least the data can be viewed in a browser or read in plain text. It's the most cross platform solution I can think of... Well, since you desire to present the data/info, as you conclude HTML would appear to be the best option. Being able to open the file in a spreadsheet app should only be important if others need to make changes to the data via spreadsheet functions. As I think about it, I don't see much basis for anyone to come up with a universal spreadsheet format. Certainly, OO/SO, gnumeric, and kspread developers COULD do so but it would be universal only to them and leave out excel and lotus users (M$ would have no reason whatsoever to support such a format unless OO/SO use really took off and they were forced to). Tex-based could be useful, as would a STANDARD use of XML, but I don't think any would be better overall than HTML for presentation, only for manipulation in a mixed environment. praedor - -- Gods are fragile things; they may be killed by a whiff of science or a dose of common sense. -- Chapman Cohen Fingerprint: D170 2A02 B426 6AA0 5E68 3EDC 68AA FDB0 961E 4F18 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+icqYaKr9sJYeTxgRAlXAAJ9Fti3LaADO2SEwxbck9ELiXgW9DwCghiQi WPt5OhJEZ1XpsebwL7W1WY8= =A4Qo -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [expert] open source spreadsheet file format.
yeah, I agree with all of that.. problem is the end user is not gonna understand downloadin the data as html.. so I went looking at cpan and found this: http://search.cpan.org/author/JMCNAMARA/Spreadsheet-WriteExcel-0.40/WriteExc el.pm it creates what is as close to standards compliant xls as possible.. so maybe that will have to do for now... csv is just missing to much... I need basic formatting.. rgds Franki -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Praedor Atrebates Sent: Wednesday, 2 April 2003 1:21 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [expert] open source spreadsheet file format. -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday 01 April 2003 11:57 am, JOHAM,DAVID (HP-Boise,ex1) wrote: I was able to get it to open in OO.o Calc only after naming the html file spreadsheet.html.xls. The .xls extension is required or OO.o opens the file (as you saw) in it's silly HTML editor. [...] The idea behind HTML is that it's a good presentation format. For those who can upload the HTML into a spreadsheet it's a dandy format for manipulation as well. For those who can't, well, at least the data can be viewed in a browser or read in plain text. It's the most cross platform solution I can think of... Well, since you desire to present the data/info, as you conclude HTML would appear to be the best option. Being able to open the file in a spreadsheet app should only be important if others need to make changes to the data via spreadsheet functions. As I think about it, I don't see much basis for anyone to come up with a universal spreadsheet format. Certainly, OO/SO, gnumeric, and kspread developers COULD do so but it would be universal only to them and leave out excel and lotus users (M$ would have no reason whatsoever to support such a format unless OO/SO use really took off and they were forced to). Tex-based could be useful, as would a STANDARD use of XML, but I don't think any would be better overall than HTML for presentation, only for manipulation in a mixed environment. praedor - -- Gods are fragile things; they may be killed by a whiff of science or a dose of common sense. -- Chapman Cohen Fingerprint: D170 2A02 B426 6AA0 5E68 3EDC 68AA FDB0 961E 4F18 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+icqYaKr9sJYeTxgRAlXAAJ9Fti3LaADO2SEwxbck9ELiXgW9DwCghiQi WPt5OhJEZ1XpsebwL7W1WY8= =A4Qo -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [expert] open source spreadsheet file format.
But if you name the file something.html.xls, for all the users know, they are downloading Excel files. :) David -Original Message- From: Frankie [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 10:46 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [expert] open source spreadsheet file format. yeah, I agree with all of that.. problem is the end user is not gonna understand downloadin the data as html.. so I went looking at cpan and found this: http://search.cpan.org/author/JMCNAMARA/Spreadsheet-WriteExcel-0.40/WriteExc el.pm it creates what is as close to standards compliant xls as possible.. so maybe that will have to do for now... csv is just missing to much... I need basic formatting.. rgds Franki -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Praedor Atrebates Sent: Wednesday, 2 April 2003 1:21 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [expert] open source spreadsheet file format. -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday 01 April 2003 11:57 am, JOHAM,DAVID (HP-Boise,ex1) wrote: I was able to get it to open in OO.o Calc only after naming the html file spreadsheet.html.xls. The .xls extension is required or OO.o opens the file (as you saw) in it's silly HTML editor. [...] The idea behind HTML is that it's a good presentation format. For those who can upload the HTML into a spreadsheet it's a dandy format for manipulation as well. For those who can't, well, at least the data can be viewed in a browser or read in plain text. It's the most cross platform solution I can think of... Well, since you desire to present the data/info, as you conclude HTML would appear to be the best option. Being able to open the file in a spreadsheet app should only be important if others need to make changes to the data via spreadsheet functions. As I think about it, I don't see much basis for anyone to come up with a universal spreadsheet format. Certainly, OO/SO, gnumeric, and kspread developers COULD do so but it would be universal only to them and leave out excel and lotus users (M$ would have no reason whatsoever to support such a format unless OO/SO use really took off and they were forced to). Tex-based could be useful, as would a STANDARD use of XML, but I don't think any would be better overall than HTML for presentation, only for manipulation in a mixed environment. praedor - -- Gods are fragile things; they may be killed by a whiff of science or a dose of common sense. -- Chapman Cohen Fingerprint: D170 2A02 B426 6AA0 5E68 3EDC 68AA FDB0 961E 4F18 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+icqYaKr9sJYeTxgRAlXAAJ9Fti3LaADO2SEwxbck9ELiXgW9DwCghiQi WPt5OhJEZ1XpsebwL7W1WY8= =A4Qo -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] open source spreadsheet file format.
On Tuesday 01 Apr 2003 6:21 pm, Praedor Atrebates wrote: As I think about it, I don't see much basis for anyone to come up with a universal spreadsheet format. Certainly, OO/SO, gnumeric, and kspread developers COULD do so but it would be universal only to them and leave out excel and lotus users (M$ would have no reason whatsoever to support such a format unless OO/SO use really took off and they were forced to). Tex-based could be useful, as would a STANDARD use of XML, but I don't think any would be better overall than HTML for presentation, only for manipulation in a mixed environment. As a matter of interest, how did .rtf come into being? Anne -- Registered Linux User No.293302 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] open source spreadsheet file format.
On Tuesday 01 Apr 2003 6:45 pm, Frankie wrote: yeah, I agree with all of that.. problem is the end user is not gonna understand downloadin the data as html.. so I went looking at cpan and found this: http://search.cpan.org/author/JMCNAMARA/Spreadsheet-WriteExcel-0.40/WriteEx c el.pm it creates what is as close to standards compliant xls as possible.. so maybe that will have to do for now... csv is just missing to much... I need basic formatting.. Not trying to stir this up, Franki, but how is that more satisfactory than using .xls to start with? Or is it that the .csv data is not translatable (by you) to .xls? Perhaps we are not understanding your application. Anne -- Registered Linux User No.293302 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] open source spreadsheet file format.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday 01 April 2003 12:54 pm, Anne Wilson wrote: On Tuesday 01 Apr 2003 6:21 pm, Praedor Atrebates wrote: As I think about it, I don't see much basis for anyone to come up with a universal spreadsheet format. Certainly, OO/SO, gnumeric, and kspread developers COULD do so but it would be universal only to them and leave out excel and lotus users (M$ would have no reason whatsoever to support such a format unless OO/SO use really took off and they were forced to). Tex-based could be useful, as would a STANDARD use of XML, but I don't think any would be better overall than HTML for presentation, only for manipulation in a mixed environment. As a matter of interest, how did .rtf come into being? Oddly enough, it is a creation of Microsoft intended to permit formatted document exchange across applications and platforms, predating pdf. It seems that once upon a time M$ really had an interest in cross-platform file formats. I don't know how long ago this was but it fell into the earlier days of DOS and Win 3.x somewhere. Though M$ still supports it, their most recent idea of what cross-platform document sharing means is someone running M$ Word on a Mac or PC and passing doc files back and forth...see? Cross-platform! praedor - -- Gods are fragile things; they may be killed by a whiff of science or a dose of common sense. -- Chapman Cohen Fingerprint: D170 2A02 B426 6AA0 5E68 3EDC 68AA FDB0 961E 4F18 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+idTGaKr9sJYeTxgRAvxCAJ9MtZ0x5gGEmoCHoDMpSSqycP5kkQCeLyqx NK/I1VyjbWksyXnwkKpcq6Y= =VsV+ -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] open source spreadsheet file format.
Frankie wrote: so maybe that will have to do for now... csv is just missing to much... I need basic formatting.. Why not try the original standard SS file formats, Lotus 1-2-3 v1A (WKS) or v2 (WK1)? AFAIK, there is no such thing as a spreadsheet app that can't handle at least one of them. My workhorse SS can read/write both, but not XLS. -- The object and practice of liberty lies in the limitation of governmental power.General Douglas MacArthur Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [expert] open source spreadsheet file format.
I have since decided against this as well in the end.. I have gone back to csv... but as for why this is better then normal xls.. is that the perl module will only write xls that all the office apps will totally understand.. there is no diff in any of them.. excel often writes xls files that look bad on others.. anyway, the main reason I gave up on this module was because it requires the file be written to temp drives and then to master xls file.. I want to open a header and stream the info to the user.. no file creation on the server.. I have achieved that with csv currently. and it will be much faster for not having to do file creation... I also got headers of a sort with csv now as well.. I had the headings in an array (a list)... so I did a count on them.. and inserted this in the script: $csv_output .= '-,' x $count; so it adds an underline for each header... gives it some seperation from the data.. testing in OOo looks ok.. rgds Franki -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Anne Wilson Sent: Wednesday, 2 April 2003 1:57 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [expert] open source spreadsheet file format. On Tuesday 01 Apr 2003 6:45 pm, Frankie wrote: yeah, I agree with all of that.. problem is the end user is not gonna understand downloadin the data as html.. so I went looking at cpan and found this: http://search.cpan.org/author/JMCNAMARA/Spreadsheet-WriteExcel-0.40/WriteEx c el.pm it creates what is as close to standards compliant xls as possible.. so maybe that will have to do for now... csv is just missing to much... I need basic formatting.. Not trying to stir this up, Franki, but how is that more satisfactory than using .xls to start with? Or is it that the .csv data is not translatable (by you) to .xls? Perhaps we are not understanding your application. Anne -- Registered Linux User No.293302 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] open source spreadsheet file format.
XML is universal and should perform ok with any perl/whatever script to convert to/from any other format. Only backdraw I can think of is unefficiency (you'd probably end with much more tags than data itself)... Anyway, it seems you have hit a good point: missing aplication standards!! El mar, 01-04-2003 a las 18:11, Anne Wilson escribió: On Tuesday 01 Apr 2003 4:36 pm, Praedor Atrebates wrote: I certainly understand the desire to not support M$ file formats. Even though M$ doesn't gain directly from such support, they do peripherally. It perpetuates the use of M$ software and the idea that M$ is a standard that people need to follow. This sort of thinking is one of the reasons that people seem to automatically assume that it is OK to send you a *.doc file because, NATURALLY, you will use Windoze and/or Word. Of COURSE it is acceptable to send *.doc files or request/require doc files because everyone uses Word/windoze. It is better to encourage use of more democratic/open formats, kill the assumption that everyone uses M$ products and they are all that exist or are useful. It is handy to be able to read other people's files, regardless of the app they used to create it, but it is better if a more universally available and untied format is used. It irritates me when I receive a doc file from a family member who has made the above erroneous assumption. This is an endemic problem that can best be addressed by using open formats whenever possible in preference to ANY closed format. Fish and fruit, IMHO. .doc files are unnecessary, for the most part, because .rtf can deal with most of what people want to do. With spreadsheets I have not found any universally read file format if formatting needs to be kept. .csv is fine if it doesn't. Until there's an option, I use what's there. I'll change if you can show me one. Anne -- Registered Linux User No.293302 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com -- Diego Dominguez __/\__ | | Andalucia /\ Spain \/ |__ __| \/ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [expert] open source spreadsheet file format.
IIRC, OpenOffice.org is working with OASIS to correct this very problem Here's hoping... David -Original Message- From: diego [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 11:44 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [expert] open source spreadsheet file format. XML is universal and should perform ok with any perl/whatever script to convert to/from any other format. Only backdraw I can think of is unefficiency (you'd probably end with much more tags than data itself)... Anyway, it seems you have hit a good point: missing aplication standards!! El mar, 01-04-2003 a las 18:11, Anne Wilson escribió: On Tuesday 01 Apr 2003 4:36 pm, Praedor Atrebates wrote: I certainly understand the desire to not support M$ file formats. Even though M$ doesn't gain directly from such support, they do peripherally. It perpetuates the use of M$ software and the idea that M$ is a standard that people need to follow. This sort of thinking is one of the reasons that people seem to automatically assume that it is OK to send you a *.doc file because, NATURALLY, you will use Windoze and/or Word. Of COURSE it is acceptable to send *.doc files or request/require doc files because everyone uses Word/windoze. It is better to encourage use of more democratic/open formats, kill the assumption that everyone uses M$ products and they are all that exist or are useful. It is handy to be able to read other people's files, regardless of the app they used to create it, but it is better if a more universally available and untied format is used. It irritates me when I receive a doc file from a family member who has made the above erroneous assumption. This is an endemic problem that can best be addressed by using open formats whenever possible in preference to ANY closed format. Fish and fruit, IMHO. .doc files are unnecessary, for the most part, because .rtf can deal with most of what people want to do. With spreadsheets I have not found any universally read file format if formatting needs to be kept. .csv is fine if it doesn't. Until there's an option, I use what's there. I'll change if you can show me one. Anne -- Registered Linux User No.293302 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com -- Diego Dominguez __/\__ | | Andalucia /\ Spain \/ |__ __| \/ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [expert] open source spreadsheet file format.
is the file format of SS open??? I need to create it with perl... in other words, I'd need to know the format. rgds Franki -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Felix Miata Sent: Wednesday, 2 April 2003 3:07 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [expert] open source spreadsheet file format. Frankie wrote: so maybe that will have to do for now... csv is just missing to much... I need basic formatting.. Why not try the original standard SS file formats, Lotus 1-2-3 v1A (WKS) or v2 (WK1)? AFAIK, there is no such thing as a spreadsheet app that can't handle at least one of them. My workhorse SS can read/write both, but not XLS. -- The object and practice of liberty lies in the limitation of governmental power.General Douglas MacArthur Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] open source spreadsheet file format.
On Tuesday 01 Apr 2003 8:21 pm, Frankie wrote: I also got headers of a sort with csv now as well.. I had the headings in an array (a list)... so I did a count on them.. and inserted this in the script: $csv_output .= '-,' x $count; so it adds an underline for each header... gives it some seperation from the data.. testing in OOo looks ok.. Glad you found something that works for you, Franki Anne -- Registered Linux User No.293302 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] open source spreadsheet file format.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday 01 April 2003 02:29 pm, JOHAM,DAVID (HP-Boise,ex1) wrote: IIRC, OpenOffice.org is working with OASIS to correct this very problem Here's hoping... [...] -Original Message- From: diego [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 11:44 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [expert] open source spreadsheet file format. XML is universal and should perform ok with any perl/whatever script to convert to/from any other format. Only backdraw I can think of is unefficiency (you'd probably end with much more tags than data itself)... [...] It has been my understanding that XML isn't a panacea and isn't necessarily universal. As I understood it for instance, M$ is supposed to use XML in its default Word format output in the nearish future - but that this doesn't in any way assure that OO/SO or Wordperfect, etc, would be able to understand it. I am no XML expert by any means, just guiding loosely on what came up during discussion at slashdot several weeks back. It would be nice if this were wrong - if XML would actually make it more likely to be able to open docs/files cross-platform (REAL cross-platform/cross-os). praedor - -- Gods are fragile things; they may be killed by a whiff of science or a dose of common sense. -- Chapman Cohen Fingerprint: D170 2A02 B426 6AA0 5E68 3EDC 68AA FDB0 961E 4F18 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+ieyuaKr9sJYeTxgRAlLOAKCjAlcyYFMh9sP5lM0O59caBHIhmQCfZmQA 5xylQJ4DzbHirJ4iLbrhRWA= =/enz -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] open source spreadsheet file format.
True, but that's why standards are for... Have a look at http://www.w3.org/ as they are working on html, xml, etc standards and they pretend them to be widely spread. M$ is not a reference to proof a standard. I read somewhere that M$ worked together with other companies to get HTML transactional 4 (look the web above), but in the end what they have made is: their products to understand the standard they among others aproved, but when designing a web page by default their programs violate it!!! For example: M$ frontpage does by default: strongbig text /strong/big Should be: strongbig text /big/strong They don't close some tags, use options that does not exist, ... Don't know about xml treatment, but from what I know about html, don't think of how M$ products XML output is, but if they read the XML produced by another program. El mar, 01-04-2003 a las 21:46, Praedor Atrebates escribió: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday 01 April 2003 02:29 pm, JOHAM,DAVID (HP-Boise,ex1) wrote: IIRC, OpenOffice.org is working with OASIS to correct this very problem Here's hoping... [...] -Original Message- From: diego [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 11:44 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [expert] open source spreadsheet file format. XML is universal and should perform ok with any perl/whatever script to convert to/from any other format. Only backdraw I can think of is unefficiency (you'd probably end with much more tags than data itself)... [...] It has been my understanding that XML isn't a panacea and isn't necessarily universal. As I understood it for instance, M$ is supposed to use XML in its default Word format output in the nearish future - but that this doesn't in any way assure that OO/SO or Wordperfect, etc, would be able to understand it. I am no XML expert by any means, just guiding loosely on what came up during discussion at slashdot several weeks back. It would be nice if this were wrong - if XML would actually make it more likely to be able to open docs/files cross-platform (REAL cross-platform/cross-os). praedor - -- Gods are fragile things; they may be killed by a whiff of science or a dose of common sense. -- Chapman Cohen Fingerprint: D170 2A02 B426 6AA0 5E68 3EDC 68AA FDB0 961E 4F18 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+ieyuaKr9sJYeTxgRAlLOAKCjAlcyYFMh9sP5lM0O59caBHIhmQCfZmQA 5xylQJ4DzbHirJ4iLbrhRWA= =/enz -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com -- Diego Dominguez __/\__ | | Andalucia /\ Spain \/ |__ __| \/ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] open source spreadsheet file format.
On Tue, 2003-04-01 at 06:20, Anne Wilson wrote: On Tuesday 01 Apr 2003 3:10 pm, Frankie wrote: Hi guys, I have to write a webapp with a downlaod option for the data.. at present the format is in .csv (comma seperated values) however there are massive limitations to what csv can display. notably there is no way to make headers of format the data at all In word processors we have rich text format (.rtf) is there anything available that does the same thing for spreadsheets? It must be openable in excel, lotus etc.. and hopefully openoffice as well... Does anyone have any suggestions on this one?? Stating the obvious, Franki, but couldn't it stay as a spreadsheet? .xls can be opened in Excel, Lotus 1-2-3 (as long as you are not using the latest edition additions) and OOo - though if macros were involved it would be more difficult. If you need to test anything against Lotus 1-2-3 you could send it to me - I'm happy to help. Anne Or OOo will convert it to html for you. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] open source spreadsheet file format.
On Tue, 2003-04-01 at 10:44, diego wrote: XML is universal and should perform ok with any perl/whatever script to convert to/from any other format. Only backdraw I can think of is unefficiency (you'd probably end with much more tags than data itself)... Anyway, it seems you have hit a good point: missing aplication standards!! This made me curious so I did a little googling. Turns out the Standard format is the one(s) that M$ uses. The older (pre XP) use the format created by Lotus-1-2-3 and office XP is using XML output. So I would guess that if you want to output into a standard format that isn't M$ XML really is the answer. What I don't know is if Gnumeric or OOo take it as input. James El mar, 01-04-2003 a las 18:11, Anne Wilson escribió: On Tuesday 01 Apr 2003 4:36 pm, Praedor Atrebates wrote: I certainly understand the desire to not support M$ file formats. Even though M$ doesn't gain directly from such support, they do peripherally. It perpetuates the use of M$ software and the idea that M$ is a standard that people need to follow. This sort of thinking is one of the reasons that people seem to automatically assume that it is OK to send you a *.doc file because, NATURALLY, you will use Windoze and/or Word. Of COURSE it is acceptable to send *.doc files or request/require doc files because everyone uses Word/windoze. It is better to encourage use of more democratic/open formats, kill the assumption that everyone uses M$ products and they are all that exist or are useful. It is handy to be able to read other people's files, regardless of the app they used to create it, but it is better if a more universally available and untied format is used. It irritates me when I receive a doc file from a family member who has made the above erroneous assumption. This is an endemic problem that can best be addressed by using open formats whenever possible in preference to ANY closed format. Fish and fruit, IMHO. .doc files are unnecessary, for the most part, because .rtf can deal with most of what people want to do. With spreadsheets I have not found any universally read file format if formatting needs to be kept. .csv is fine if it doesn't. Until there's an option, I use what's there. I'll change if you can show me one. Anne -- Registered Linux User No.293302 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] open source spreadsheet file format.
I have to write a webapp with a downlaod option for the data.. at present the format is in .csv (comma seperated values) OK, most if not all spreadsheets can take CSV. (csv is nearly identical to Basic DATA statement format, without the DATA tokens, in case anyone's wondering). It seems you have two issues: one of presentation, and one of transmission. It is true that CSV is limited, although the header can be transmitted as the first row of the data. For instance: SEQ,FNAME,LNAME,ACT 1000345,David,Fox,34 1000346,Paul,Jones,37 etc. Then the sheet or app at the other end can just import that, and the user knows what the columns are for. Now as far as presentation is concerned, you could have a perl script or such that would sisplay the data the sheet is about to download before it gets downloaded -- however the real data is still preserved in CSV form. I used to work in an environment where I was getting new sheet data daily and incorporating it into spreadsheets and other things. I seem to recall the presentation of data was done with Java. Franki Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
