[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That was really interesting, thanks! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: On Jun 14, 2006, at 3:20 PM, curtisdeltablues wrote: Good points. This one interested me the most: rather by recognizing that mysticism is completely beyond science. It is beyond the scientific method in its focus and range, but I think Sam Harris would claim that when it talks about how the world is mysticism enters the field where logic does apply. You mentioned that Schroedinger is a physicist, a world class one at that from what I understand. But Physics is a field driven by math skills and I don't think that gives him a leg up on this kind of discussion over say...you or Chopra. It is all speculation about life. He leaves his credibility in his own field far behind on these topics. Because you have gained something from it, I will spend some more time thinking about it. Curtis you might enjoy the following brief talk with Ken Wilber where he answers the question does quantum physics prove god? where he rather elegantly explains that the quantum state is not unmanifest spirit/brahman/the tao/PC. Interesting talk. Not so interesting for the TM quantum mysticism, but rather embarrassing. I think by extension you could conclude that a mysticism based on Quantum physics is pretty bad mysticism... It's on page two: http://www.kenwilber.com/professional/media/index.html Well, let's see, Ken Wilber, a rather superficial (sorry Judy) philosopher who has had a few grad-level QM courses as part of his work in biology, concludes that QM can't have anything to do with true mysticism, whatever that means, vs John Hagelin, who published a bunch of papers in the field, including the 27th most important paper of all time in the field. Yeah, anyone that listens to Ken WIlber about anything shows bad mysticism. Not only is his treatment of QM and strings (the most popular theory has 10 dimensions, not 11 --the 11th is used to reconcile the various 10-dimensional theories with each other, IIRC) superficial, but his treatment of enlightenment is equally superficial. Sheesh. This is the guy that everyone worships? Wotta maroon. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Something is new at Yahoo! Groups. Check out the enhanced email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/SISQkA/gOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: New file uploaded to FairfieldLife
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Kirk kirk_bernhardt@ wrote: snip I don't think anyone in the Movement has the balls to question MMY. But if they did he probably would say straight up that he is not liberated. He is still in duality. snip I do admire him. He might be much much more evolved that I will ever be, but he does not have the characteristics of those of the Holy Tradition. Hi, I personally believe that people don't believe he is who he is due to brainwashing. Just as TB's want desperately to believe who he is, due to brainwashing. Same mirror image process. That's neither accurate nor intelligent, Jim. You know that we've discussed a little of this via email and if I remember correctly, you've never even met the man. You are welcome to your opinion of who and what he is, but I don't think the only reason that someone who spent a great deal of time around him might think he wasn't enlightened is brainwashing. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Great things are happening at Yahoo! Groups. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/TISQkA/hOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: New file uploaded to FairfieldLife
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 14, 2006, at 5:49 PM, Kirk wrote: a sign of guilt? or dualism of his mind? One would think that since he puts his photo on all his manifest actions he would place it in the Holy Tradition which is the source of his power. State of contemplation of Brahman is bliss and contentment. The sort which keeps a person in their cave for fourty years saying, no no no, I don't care to come out. Ostensibly one stays in their cave until someone demands their service. But one who is running forward after some goals here and there, is still in the duality of their senses and the objects of their senses. Oh, I don't think anyone in the Movement has the balls to question MMY. But if they did he probably would say straight up that he is not liberated. He is still in duality. I am denigrating him any longer. I do admire him. He might be much much more evolved that I will ever be, but he does not have the characteristics of those of the Holy Tradition. Well I think he should get the toll booth attendent to the Holy Trad. position. With an airbrush, it'd be easy to stencil in--standin' there collectin' the tokens to the turnpike to enlightenment. Don't worry dude, this is a Vedic turnpike so there's no pollution and all the money's for world peace, honest... I'm not really part of or terribly interested in this conversation, but a funny thought just struck me. How long do you think it will take after Maharishi dies for the True Believers to add his name to the puja? I'd bet less than five years. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Groups gets a make over. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/XISQkA/lOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: New file uploaded to FairfieldLife
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: On Jun 14, 2006, at 5:49 PM, Kirk wrote: a sign of guilt? or dualism of his mind? One would think that since he puts his photo on all his manifest actions he would place it in the Holy Tradition which is the source of his power. State of contemplation of Brahman is bliss and contentment. The sort which keeps a person in their cave for fourty years saying, no no no, I don't care to come out. Ostensibly one stays in their cave until someone demands their service. But one who is running forward after some goals here and there, is still in the duality of their senses and the objects of their senses. Oh, I don't think anyone in the Movement has the balls to question MMY. But if they did he probably would say straight up that he is not liberated. He is still in duality. I am denigrating him any longer. I do admire him. He might be much much more evolved that I will ever be, but he does not have the characteristics of those of the Holy Tradition. Well I think he should get the toll booth attendent to the Holy Trad. position. With an airbrush, it'd be easy to stencil in--standin' there collectin' the tokens to the turnpike to enlightenment. Don't worry dude, this is a Vedic turnpike so there's no pollution and all the money's for world peace, honest... I'm not really part of or terribly interested in this conversation, but a funny thought just struck me. How long do you think it will take after Maharishi dies for the True Believers to add his name to the puja? I'd bet less than five years. As long as the TMO survives as MMY wants it tok, MMY's name will NEVER be part of the puja. He's had his official portrait added to the tradition of masters as a tiny figure in white standing respectfully to the side, well away from the river that flows through them. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Something is new at Yahoo! Groups. Check out the enhanced email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/SISQkA/gOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: New file uploaded to FairfieldLife
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: I'm not really part of or terribly interested in this conversation, but a funny thought just struck me. How long do you think it will take after Maharishi dies for the True Believers to add his name to the puja? I'd bet less than five years. As long as the TMO survives as MMY wants it tok, MMY's name will NEVER be part of the puja. He's had his official portrait added to the tradition of masters as a tiny figure in white standing respectfully to the side, well away from the river that flows through them. Your point is slightly irrelevant. After he dies, the TM movement will survive as the people who run it want it to survive, not as Maharishi wants it. If they want to reinterpret his wishes creatively, they will certainly do so. Just look at the history of *any* spiritual movement after its teacher died. I'd still bet on seeing a pretty determined program of Maharishi glorification. The movement will have lost not only its figurehead, but also the *only* person who could get press any time he wanted it. The public will tend to ignore the TM movement as passe (even more than they do now). So my bet is that people will start coming up with miracle stories and healing stories designed to portray Maharishi as something Really Special. This is really NOT a rap denigrating either TM or the TMO or Maharishi. It's just my guess about what we might see happen after Maharishi's death, based on what has happened in hundreds of spiritual traditions after their teachers' deaths. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Check out the new improvements in Yahoo! Groups email. http://us.click.yahoo.com/6pRQfA/fOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: New file uploaded to FairfieldLife
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: I'm not really part of or terribly interested in this conversation, but a funny thought just struck me. How long do you think it will take after Maharishi dies for the True Believers to add his name to the puja? I'd bet less than five years. As long as the TMO survives as MMY wants it tok, MMY's name will NEVER be part of the puja. He's had his official portrait added to the tradition of masters as a tiny figure in white standing respectfully to the side, well away from the river that flows through them. Your point is slightly irrelevant. After he dies, the TM movement will survive as the people who run it want it to survive, not as Maharishi wants it. If they want to reinterpret his wishes creatively, they will certainly do so. Just look at the history of *any* spiritual movement after its teacher died. I'd still bet on seeing a pretty determined program of Maharishi glorification. The movement will have lost not only its figurehead, but also the *only* person who could get press any time he wanted it. The public will tend to ignore the TM movement as passe (even more than they do now). So my bet is that people will start coming up with miracle stories and healing stories designed to portray Maharishi as something Really Special. This is really NOT a rap denigrating either TM or the TMO or Maharishi. It's just my guess about what we might see happen after Maharishi's death, based on what has happened in hundreds of spiritual traditions after their teachers' deaths. I've no doubt that there will be a move to deify or whatever MMY (some already deify him), but I was responding mostly to your 5 years lmit. I don't think that there will be any move towards this from within the TMO for many, MANY years. In fact, if MMY is correct, there never will be, as long as technological society endures. Every talk that MMY has ever given credits his teacher and the tradition of masters. In fact, since the next generation of TM teachers won't have face time (even via closed circuit TV) with MMY, there will be even less tendency to put him on a pedestal, IMHO. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Check out the new improvements in Yahoo! Groups email. http://us.click.yahoo.com/6pRQfA/fOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: New file uploaded to FairfieldLife
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: I'm not really part of or terribly interested in this conversation, but a funny thought just struck me. How long do you think it will take after Maharishi dies for the True Believers to add his name to the puja? I'd bet less than five years. As long as the TMO survives as MMY wants it tok, MMY's name will NEVER be part of the puja. He's had his official portrait added to the tradition of masters as a tiny figure in white standing respectfully to the side, well away from the river that flows through them. Your point is slightly irrelevant. After he dies, the TM movement will survive as the people who run it want it to survive, not as Maharishi wants it. If they want to reinterpret his wishes creatively, they will certainly do so. Just look at the history of *any* spiritual movement after its teacher died. I'd still bet on seeing a pretty determined program of Maharishi glorification. The movement will have lost not only its figurehead, but also the *only* person who could get press any time he wanted it. The public will tend to ignore the TM movement as passe (even more than they do now). So my bet is that people will start coming up with miracle stories and healing stories designed to portray Maharishi as something Really Special. This is really NOT a rap denigrating either TM or the TMO or Maharishi. It's just my guess about what we might see happen after Maharishi's death, based on what has happened in hundreds of spiritual traditions after their teachers' deaths. I've no doubt that there will be a move to deify or whatever MMY (some already deify him), but I was responding mostly to your 5 years lmit. I don't think that there will be any move towards this from within the TMO for many, MANY years. In fact, if MMY is correct, there never will be, as long as technological society endures. That's a sweet thought. Care to put money on it? :-) Every talk that MMY has ever given credits his teacher and the tradition of masters. In fact, since the next generation of TM teachers won't have face time (even via closed circuit TV) with MMY, there will be even less tendency to put him on a pedestal, IMHO. I think there will be even *more* of a tendency to deify him, for that very reason. Those who have worked face-to-face with a teacher tend to be a little more resistant to the deification process; those who have always been kept at a distance tend to extend that distance even further by deifying the distant teacher. I'm just talking historical trends here. Some would like to believe that the TMO will be immune to these trends. I'm not one of them; I've seen the movement fall prey to too many of them while Maharishi is still alive, much less after he's gone. Adding his name to the puja would be an extreme step, but mark my words you'll see a movement within the movement to do so, even if it doesn't succeed. And the result will be bitter infighting between one group of people who are convinced that they are doing what Maharishi really wanted and another group that is equally convinced that they are doing what Maharishi really wanted. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Check out the new improvements in Yahoo! Groups email. http://us.click.yahoo.com/6pRQfA/fOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: New file uploaded to FairfieldLife
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've no doubt that there will be a move to deify or whatever MMY (some already deify him), but I was responding mostly to your 5 years lmit. I don't think that there will be any move towards this from within the TMO for many, MANY years. Case in point: one of the bullet points on my job description as State Coordinator was going around to different TM centers and trying to convince the TM teachers who had placed a photo of Maharishi on their pujz tables during the initiation process that it probably wasn't a good idea. We'd tell them what we had been told to tell them and then leave town, and hear through the grapevine that the day after we left town the photos of Maharishi would be right back on the puja tables. Fanatics are always convinced that *their* fanaticism is the right fanaticism. It doesn't even matter if the person they are fanatical about sits them down and yells in their faces about their behavior and how inappropriate it is, they will cling to their view of what is correct and say things like, Maharishi is only yelling at me in public because he has to set an example for all the other teachers, the 'lesser' teachers who are not as clued in as I am. If we were to talk about this subject in private, he'd tell me that I was correct all along. I've seen this so many times, both in the TMO and in other spiritual trips. It's just part of the spiritual process as far as I can tell. The power of self importance is as awesome of the power of denial. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- See what's inside the new Yahoo! Groups email. http://us.click.yahoo.com/2pRQfA/bOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: New file uploaded to FairfieldLife
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: I've no doubt that there will be a move to deify or whatever MMY (some already deify him), but I was responding mostly to your 5 years lmit. I don't think that there will be any move towards this from within the TMO for many, MANY years. Case in point: one of the bullet points on my job description as State Coordinator was going around to different TM centers and trying to convince the TM teachers who had placed a photo of Maharishi on their pujz tables during the initiation process that it probably wasn't a good idea. We'd tell them what we had been told to tell them and then leave town, and hear through the grapevine that the day after we left town the photos of Maharishi would be right back on the puja tables. Fanatics are always convinced that *their* fanaticism is the right fanaticism. It doesn't even matter if the person they are fanatical about sits them down and yells in their faces about their behavior and how inappropriate it is, they will cling to their view of what is correct and say things like, Maharishi is only yelling at me in public because he has to set an example for all the other teachers, the 'lesser' teachers who are not as clued in as I am. If we were to talk about this subject in private, he'd tell me that I was correct all along. I've seen this so many times, both in the TMO and in other spiritual trips. It's just part of the spiritual process as far as I can tell. The power of self importance is as awesome of the power of denial. You may be correct. However, recall that at least currently, ONLY recerted teachers are allowed to teach under the TM label. The recerts are the ones most likely to toe the party line in all respects. Likewise with the Rajas who are supposed to be running the show. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Groups gets a make over. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/XISQkA/lOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bush Administration Quietly Plans NAFTA Super Highway?
On Jun 14, 2006, at 10:11 PM, sparaig wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Kirk" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ironically, these sorts of super corridors will be the very death of the country. Perfect way for sending in a Trojan Horse.We can't security-check all the containers coming in by sea, even though they don't zip by at 70 mph. How are we going to prevent smuggling of weapons, WMDs and/or terrorists through such a system? Or how are we going to save the jobs of hundreds of thousands of union and factory workers? These are all corporate "grabs" so they can funnel cheap labor in from the south and the goods from slave labor in Asia into this country.It's like Joni Mitchell asks in a recent song "Who ya gonna get to do the dirty work, when all the slaves are free?" Well we have our answer Joni...Welcome to the United States of America, Inc. Careful, they're listening too. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
On Jun 14, 2006, at 10:56 PM, coshlnx wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" jstein@ wrote: However, there could be a good deal of semantic ambiguity here, in light of how MMY defines Unity consciousness. In other words: Does he have the ability to want to do siddhis on demand, independently of what nature "wants"? If he is enlightened, then what nature wants and what he does are the same thing; indistinguishable. This is speculation, not a trace of evidence for it. Equally speculative but not as much based on flawed authorities like MMY would be the statement that among the unenlightened, and the E'd, there are varying degrees of "what nature wants". In addition, there is much concrete evidence that the E'd can/do perform acts contrary to nature: say, molesting underage females. In addition, in the realm of economics, about the most we can say is that economics is inherently an evolutionary process; and in evolution there is a great deal of "trying out" things resulting in a vastic heuristic interplay of forces. Even saying "what nature wants" is presumptuous tantamount to a tautology. In essence, in view of the unscientific character of such claims as to a. not E'd - problematic but b. E'd OK, everything is supported by nature; this is a typical MMY urban myth. I think it's high time - in the spirit of Sam Harris - to at least use a modicum of logic, if not a strong dose of scientific evidence. Please, no "MMY said so" - therefore it must be true!. But we can still stay Quantum Neo-vedism said so and push Hagelin to the front, can't we?What the bleep? __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: New file uploaded to FairfieldLife
I'm not really part of or terribly interested in thisconversation, but a funny thought just struck me.How long do you think it will take after Maharishidies for the True Believers to add his name to the puja? I'd bet less than five years.-Oh the whole - born from a bird in the Swiss Alps of the Sun, from a mantra uttered by Vishwamitra - more human than human thin will no doubt occur. Should TMO last out another 20 years people will do TM to prepare for war against the infidel. MMY has culled the nonfanatical people from his cult, so only the rank dualists are left. May MMY never teach Vedic war techniques. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 14, 2006, at 1:43 PM, TurquoiseB wrote: It was just a fascinating evening for me, watching her avoiding her own perceptions. I did not tell her before the talk that Rama could do siddhis, or to watch for them, and he never announced that he was about to do them, even to the point of saying Watch this. That night, a small gathering of about 50 students and their guests, he just did them ex tempore, slipping them in *while* giving a talk on something or another. And because of her mumbling thing, there was no question that she was seeing them at the time, but then for whatever reason she decided to not have seen them, and that decision was more powerful than her own perceptions. Go figure. Unless of course she was pissed because she realized he was using some form of suggestion... Some Buddhist teachers have suggested that Zen Master Rama was just doing a form of magical display (if he was not hypnotizing people)-- a kind of minor siddhi where they change people's perceptions. Supposedly much easier to do and a lot more common than actual levitation siddhi. Vaj, just out of curiosity, I'm going to ask you to back up this last paragraph by naming names. I'm asking not out of a desire to defend Rama but out of pure curiosity. I'm not convinced that you're telling the truth here, because I've encountered at least three dozen teachers in Tibetan traditions who have said no such thing about him. The worst that they said (and that I agree with wholeheartedly) is that he was a very high being who in the end succumbed to his own samskaras, and got taken out by his own attachments. No one I've spoken to has ever suggested that the siddhis he was able to perform were anything but real. See, the thing is that I happen to know that the Rama guy only met a handful of actual Tibetan teachers while he was still alive. I know all of these teachers and in general they are favorable towards him (with the caveat listed above, which I agree with). So I'm wondering which teachers you cite were willing to make such a state- ment about *someone they never met*. There are a *lot* of theories about 'hypnotism' and 'suggestion' floating around about Rama and the things he could do. But almost without exception *none* of the people suggesting these theories ever saw him in real life. So I'm asking you to 'name names' to see who would be so silly as to do this. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Great things are happening at Yahoo! Groups. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/TISQkA/hOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: New file uploaded to FairfieldLife
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: I'm not really part of or terribly interested in this conversation, but a funny thought just struck me. How long do you think it will take after Maharishi dies for the True Believers to add his name to the puja? I'd bet less than five years. As long as the TMO survives as MMY wants it tok, MMY's name will NEVER be part of the puja. He's had his official portrait added to the tradition of masters as a tiny figure in white standing respectfully to the side, well away from the river that flows through them. Your point is slightly irrelevant. After he dies, the TM movement will survive as the people who run it want it to survive, not as Maharishi wants it. If they want to reinterpret his wishes creatively, they will certainly do so. Just look at the history of *any* spiritual movement after its teacher died. I'd still bet on seeing a pretty determined program of Maharishi glorification. The movement will have lost not only its figurehead, but also the *only* person who could get press any time he wanted it. The public will tend to ignore the TM movement as passe (even more than they do now). So my bet is that people will start coming up with miracle stories and healing stories designed to portray Maharishi as something Really Special. This is really NOT a rap denigrating either TM or the TMO or Maharishi. It's just my guess about what we might see happen after Maharishi's death, based on what has happened in hundreds of spiritual traditions after their teachers' deaths. I don't understand sparaig's description of the new holy tradition picture -- MMY is the same size as Guru Dev, both are larger than all the others, and MMY is standing right next to the river, just like all the others, right at guru dev's feet. It is clearly a visual depiction of MMY being next in line in the tradition. The only distinctive feature is that MMY is standing, not sitting, which to me goes to his still being alive. Last year when MMY inaugerated sat yuga, either bevan or hagelin described MMY as the greatest sage to have ever lived on earth, which seems to me to back up T's point. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Something is new at Yahoo! Groups. Check out the enhanced email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/SISQkA/gOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: That was really interesting, thanks! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: On Jun 14, 2006, at 3:20 PM, curtisdeltablues wrote: Good points. This one interested me the most: rather by recognizing that mysticism is completely beyond science. It is beyond the scientific method in its focus and range, but I think Sam Harris would claim that when it talks about how the world is mysticism enters the field where logic does apply. You mentioned that Schroedinger is a physicist, a world class one at that from what I understand. But Physics is a field driven by math skills and I don't think that gives him a leg up on this kind of discussion over say...you or Chopra. It is all speculation about life. He leaves his credibility in his own field far behind on these topics. Because you have gained something from it, I will spend some more time thinking about it. Curtis you might enjoy the following brief talk with Ken Wilber where he answers the question does quantum physics prove god? where he rather elegantly explains that the quantum state is not unmanifest spirit/brahman/the tao/PC. Interesting talk. Not so interesting for the TM quantum mysticism, but rather embarrassing. I think by extension you could conclude that a mysticism based on Quantum physics is pretty bad mysticism... It's on page two: http://www.kenwilber.com/professional/media/index.html Well, let's see, Ken Wilber, a rather superficial (sorry Judy) philosopher who has had a few grad-level QM courses as part of his work in biology, concludes that QM can't have anything to do with true mysticism, whatever that means, vs John Hagelin, who published a bunch of papers in the field, including the 27th most important paper of all time in the field. Couple things, Lawson. I don't recommend Wilber as a profound philosopher per se, but I do think he has some very clear insights into various aspects of the relationship between science and mysticism. I don't think this particular talk touted by Vaj shows those insights at their best, however. I'd recommend instead his introduction to Quantum Questions and several of the chapters in Eye to Eye. Also, I'm not at all sure what Wilber says in this vein contradicts Hagelin. I think their approaches come from very different angles and that they aren't really talking about the same thing. Yeah, anyone that listens to Ken WIlber about anything shows bad mysticism. (You meant Hagelin here, not Wilber, right?) Not only is his treatment of QM and strings (the most popular theory has 10 dimensions, not 11 --the 11th is used to reconcile the various 10-dimensional theories with each other, IIRC) superficial, but his treatment of enlightenment is equally superficial. Sheesh. This is the guy that everyone worships? How much have you read of what he's written? Wotta maroon. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Check out the new improvements in Yahoo! Groups email. http://us.click.yahoo.com/6pRQfA/fOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Promises (was New file uploaded)
--- sparaig wrote: So a promise is only valid as long as the other side keeps their side of the bargain? If it's truly a bargain - a business deal - I'd say yes. Either party breaking the terms of a contract nullifies the contract. (Any lawyers here who can speak to this?) If the promise, however, is in a social context based on love or honor, I don't think the promise necessarily loses its validity when circumstances change. Anthroposophy discriminates between three different spheres of life in this way in order to clarify one's rights and obligations in the different spheres. (Google three- fold social order to learn more.) What's interesting is to consider what one's relationship is to Maharishi and his organization. Is it a business deal, a mentor-student relationship, master-disciple relationship, or what? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Great things are happening at Yahoo! Groups. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/TISQkA/hOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
On Jun 15, 2006, at 8:03 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 14, 2006, at 1:43 PM, TurquoiseB wrote: It was just a fascinating evening for me, watching her avoiding her own perceptions. I did not tell her before the talk that Rama could do siddhis, or to watch for them, and he never announced that he was about to do them, even to the point of saying Watch this. That night, a small gathering of about 50 students and their guests, he just did them ex tempore, slipping them in *while* giving a talk on something or another. And because of her mumbling thing, there was no question that she was seeing them at the time, but then for whatever reason she decided to not have seen them, and that decision was more powerful than her own perceptions. Go figure. Unless of course she was pissed because she realized he was using some form of suggestion... Some Buddhist teachers have suggested that Zen Master Rama was just doing a form of magical display (if he was not hypnotizing people)-- a kind of minor siddhi where they change people's perceptions. Supposedly much easier to do and a lot more common than actual levitation siddhi. Vaj, just out of curiosity, I'm going to ask you to back up this last paragraph by naming names. I'm asking not out of a desire to defend Rama but out of pure curiosity. I'm not convinced that you're telling the truth here, because I've encountered at least three dozen teachers in Tibetan traditions who have said no such thing about him. The worst that they said (and that I agree with wholeheartedly) is that he was a very high being who in the end succumbed to his own samskaras, and got taken out by his own attachments. No one I've spoken to has ever suggested that the siddhis he was able to perform were anything but real. See, the thing is that I happen to know that the Rama guy only met a handful of actual Tibetan teachers while he was still alive. I know all of these teachers and in general they are favorable towards him (with the caveat listed above, which I agree with). So I'm wondering which teachers you cite were willing to make such a state- ment about *someone they never met*. There are a *lot* of theories about 'hypnotism' and 'suggestion' floating around about Rama and the things he could do. But almost without exception *none* of the people suggesting these theories ever saw him in real life. So I'm asking you to 'name names' to see who would be so silly as to do this. If I can find the old email, I'll post it. IIRC these weren't people who knew Zen Master Rama personally. I can see how a magical display would make more sense, esp. if inner qualities were lacking. Had any of this ever been witnessed by a trained magician just out of curiosity? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- See what's inside the new Yahoo! Groups email. http://us.click.yahoo.com/2pRQfA/bOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 15, 2006, at 8:03 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: Unless of course she was pissed because she realized he was using some form of suggestion... Some Buddhist teachers have suggested that Zen Master Rama was just doing a form of magical display (if he was not hypnotizing people)-- a kind of minor siddhi where they change people's perceptions. Supposedly much easier to do and a lot more common than actual levitation siddhi. Vaj, just out of curiosity, I'm going to ask you to back up this last paragraph by naming names. I'm asking not out of a desire to defend Rama but out of pure curiosity. I'm not convinced that you're telling the truth here, because I've encountered at least three dozen teachers in Tibetan traditions who have said no such thing about him. The worst that they said (and that I agree with wholeheartedly) is that he was a very high being who in the end succumbed to his own samskaras, and got taken out by his own attachments. No one I've spoken to has ever suggested that the siddhis he was able to perform were anything but real. See, the thing is that I happen to know that the Rama guy only met a handful of actual Tibetan teachers while he was still alive. I know all of these teachers and in general they are favorable towards him (with the caveat listed above, which I agree with). So I'm wondering which teachers you cite were willing to make such a state- ment about *someone they never met*. There are a *lot* of theories about 'hypnotism' and 'suggestion' floating around about Rama and the things he could do. But almost without exception *none* of the people suggesting these theories ever saw him in real life. So I'm asking you to 'name names' to see who would be so silly as to do this. If I can find the old email, I'll post it. IIRC these weren't people who knew Zen Master Rama personally. No, I didn't think so. I would also be willing to bet the farm that they never saw him in any of his public talks either. I can see how a magical display would make more sense, esp. if inner qualities were lacking. It makes sense if you weren't there. If you were there, it seems a lot like someone trying to cling to his preconceptions. :-) Had any of this ever been witnessed by a trained magician just out of curiosity? I have no idea. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Something is new at Yahoo! Groups. Check out the enhanced email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/SISQkA/gOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, coshlnx [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: However, there could be a good deal of semantic ambiguity here, in light of how MMY defines Unity consciousness. In other words: Does he have the ability to want to do siddhis on demand, independently of what nature wants? If he is enlightened, then what nature wants and what he does are the same thing; indistinguishable. This is speculation, not a trace of evidence for it. Equally speculative but not as much based on flawed authorities like MMY would be the statement that among the unenlightened, and the E'd, there are varying degrees of what nature wants. snip Please, no MMY said so - therefore it must be true!. This is a frequent mistake people make, *assuming* that Maharishi [or another guru] is enlightened (I think psychologists refer to this phenomenon as transference), and then based on that assumption, interpret what Maharishi says as true, often misintepreting and misunderstanding what the guru says. Another point to make for you: argue for your limitations and they are yours. That is one of the completely different ways of functioning of an enlightened person. Before enlightenment, it is all intention based on ego, which is not a bad thing, just a lot harder. After enlightenment, there is not much ownership, it is just easier to do what nature wants because it is easiest to support nature, and in turn nature supports us. I know it sounds crazy, but it is simply the way it is. So intention exists, and desires exist and dedicated thought and action exist, but supported by nature. It is just easier. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Great things are happening at Yahoo! Groups. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/TISQkA/hOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: New file uploaded to FairfieldLife
Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: New file uploaded to FairfieldLife on 6/14/06 2:11 PM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 14, 2006, at 3:04 PM, Rick Archer wrote: on 6/14/06 1:33 PM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does it make sense to go against the wishes of the person who gave you the lineage you're supposedly teaching in--and then turn around and invoke that lineage as part of the initiation process? Or is it yours to use after you got it? Then theres the question of what MMYs wishes really are, particularly in light of the quote which started this thread. It is interesting and has been mentioned numerous times before (actually I think it was Bob Brigante who first pointed it out some time ago). Of course there are also the reports of people at the recertification course who paid all that money and got reamed out by M. for hours via satellite, so he can't be too happy with what was happening. I'm not clear however on just what it was he was so upset about. He has always flown into rages, sometimes for days on end. Often it has been against the Western governments, for their war-mongering, etc. Sometimes against the medical establishment. Sometimes, but usually for not as long, against an individual. In Hertenstein, 74, there was a press secretary named John whom MMY used to yell at every night. The guy had amazing composure. He just stood there and took it night after night without batting an eye. I think the rage against the recerts has to do with blaming someone other than himself for the Movements failure. He did the same thing a few years back on a phone call to a group of Governors in California. Reaming them for having wasted their lives by getting jobs and raising families instead of working for the Movement. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, coshlnx coshlnx@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: However, there could be a good deal of semantic ambiguity here, in light of how MMY defines Unity consciousness. In other words: Does he have the ability to want to do siddhis on demand, independently of what nature wants? If he is enlightened, then what nature wants and what he does are the same thing; indistinguishable. This is speculation, not a trace of evidence for it. Just to clarify the context, it had to do with whether what MMY teaches is internally consistent, not whether what he teaches is true. Equally speculative but not as much based on flawed authorities like MMY would be the statement that among the unenlightened, and the E'd, there are varying degrees of what nature wants. snip Please, no MMY said so - therefore it must be true!. This is a frequent mistake people make, *assuming* that Maharishi [or another guru] is enlightened (I think psychologists refer to this phenomenon as transference), and then based on that assumption, interpret what Maharishi says as true, often misintepreting and misunderstanding what the guru says. It's the second part of this that causes the most trouble, IMO. At least (again) in the context of what MMY teaches, the dictum that enlightened people don't make mistakes is frequently misunderstood (and MMY hasn't done a whole lot to clarify it). The enlightened person, according to MMY's teaching, doesn't make mistakes *from nature's perspective*; but it's entirely possible for nature to want the enlightened person to make a mistake, for nature's own unfathomable purposes (e.g., to nudge the person's followers into using their own judgment). Another point to make for you: argue for your limitations and they are yours. That is one of the completely different ways of functioning of an enlightened person. Before enlightenment, it is all intention based on ego, which is not a bad thing, just a lot harder. After enlightenment, there is not much ownership, it is just easier to do what nature wants because it is easiest to support nature, and in turn nature supports us. I know it sounds crazy, but it is simply the way it is. So intention exists, and desires exist and dedicated thought and action exist, but supported by nature. It is just easier. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- See what's inside the new Yahoo! Groups email. http://us.click.yahoo.com/2pRQfA/bOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: New file uploaded to FairfieldLife
Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: New file uploaded to FairfieldLife on 6/14/06 4:14 PM, bob_brigante at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think it's clear that by raising the price of instruction, MMY wants the rate of initiations to be low (to avoid creating fear and havoc on an ignorant planet: http://geocities.com/bbrigante/retards.html#light ). TM teachers who go off on their own, lacking the resources of the TMO, could not possibly teach enough people to derail this strategy of slow growth of consciousness on the earth, so MMY said that he did not mind if TM teachers went off on their own, teaching TM under some other name. The TMO is not suing TM teachers who are off on their own, as long as they do not infringe on the TM trademark (several TM teachers are now teaching what they are calling the Transcendental Stress Management Program). Im pretty sure that more people are being taught TM these days by independent teachers than by official ones. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bush Administration Quietly Plans NAFTA Super Highway?
In a message dated 6/15/06 6:07:00 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:Ironically, these sorts of super corridors will be the very death of the country.Perfect way for sending in a Trojan Horse.I would much rather have commerce flowing along a specific corridor than crossing the border any place and going any direction there after. I'm sure it will be much like a toll road in that in order to get off or on you would have to go through a toll booth or someplace where documents can be verified or cargo can be inspected if necessary. This sounds more like a typical union issue to me, being made into something else. I'm sure there was a group of people that resentedhorseless carriages being introduced to the nations roads. My God , they are loud, they scare the horses and mules, the chickens will stop laying, and the cows will dry up! Not to mention the accidents they cause.Now who is progressive and regressive here? __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
This is a frequent mistake people make, *assuming* that Maharishi [or another guru] is enlightened (I think psychologists refer to this phenomenon as transference), and then based on that assumption, interpret what Maharishi says as true, often misintepreting and misunderstanding what the guru says. I am pretty sure we got this idea about his state from him. I don't think it is assumptive on our part. If you treat him in any way other then as enlightened master you are quickly escorted out of the room. It is not assumed, it is enforced. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, coshlnx coshlnx@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: However, there could be a good deal of semantic ambiguity here, in light of how MMY defines Unity consciousness. In other words: Does he have the ability to want to do siddhis on demand, independently of what nature wants? If he is enlightened, then what nature wants and what he does are the same thing; indistinguishable. This is speculation, not a trace of evidence for it. Equally speculative but not as much based on flawed authorities like MMY would be the statement that among the unenlightened, and the E'd, there are varying degrees of what nature wants. snip Please, no MMY said so - therefore it must be true!. This is a frequent mistake people make, *assuming* that Maharishi [or another guru] is enlightened (I think psychologists refer to this phenomenon as transference), and then based on that assumption, interpret what Maharishi says as true, often misintepreting and misunderstanding what the guru says. Another point to make for you: argue for your limitations and they are yours. That is one of the completely different ways of functioning of an enlightened person. Before enlightenment, it is all intention based on ego, which is not a bad thing, just a lot harder. After enlightenment, there is not much ownership, it is just easier to do what nature wants because it is easiest to support nature, and in turn nature supports us. I know it sounds crazy, but it is simply the way it is. So intention exists, and desires exist and dedicated thought and action exist, but supported by nature. It is just easier. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- See what's inside the new Yahoo! Groups email. http://us.click.yahoo.com/2pRQfA/bOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: New file uploaded to FairfieldLife
Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: New file uploaded to FairfieldLife He has always flown into rages, sometimes for days on end. Often it has been against the Western governments, for their war-mongering, etc. Sometimes against the medical establishment. Sometimes, but usually for not as long, against an individual. In Hertenstein, 74, there was a press secretary named John whom MMY used to yell at every night. The guy had amazing composure. He just stood there and took it night after night without batting an eye. I think the rage against the recerts has to do with blaming someone other than himself for the Movements failure. He did the same thing a few years back on a phone call to a group of Governors in California. Reaming them for having wasted their lives by getting jobs and raising families instead of working for the Movement. All thisshows a rankly dualistic person. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bush Administration Quietly Plans NAFTA Super Highway?
In a message dated 6/15/06 6:07:00 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:Ironically, these sorts of super corridors will be the very death of the country.Perfect way for sending in a Trojan Horse.I would much rather have commerce flowing along a specific corridor than crossing the border any place and going any direction there after. I'm sure it will be much like a toll road in that in order to get off or on you would have to go through a toll booth or someplace where documents can be verified or cargo can be inspected if necessary. This sounds more like a typical union issue to me, being made into something else. I'm sure there was a group of people that resentedhorseless carriages being introduced to the nations roads. My God , they are loud, they scare the horses and mules, the chickens will stop laying, and the cows will dry up! Not to mention the accidents they cause.Now who is progressive and regressive here? If you had said something different M, I would have freaked, lost my footing, and maybe hit my head on something in surprise. I don't suppose you find that the new supercorridor may well destroy all livelihood flowing from Mississippi River ingress/egress, I don't suppose you might find this the plan of a solipsistic Texan who really believes that Texas should control all ingress/egress to/from the US, or that such a plan will ipso facto create an almost omnipotent border control state of Texas, able to smuggle anything into the country as it wishes without any sort of check or balances. No you wouldn't consider those ideas because Bush can do no wrong. I don't suppose you might wonder how easy/difficult it may become to cross from East/West West/East across this huge mega road, thus effectively dividing the country into two. So many questions that I have, but no answers from responsive governmental persons I'm sure will ever be forthcoming, because the government has ceased to listen to the people in except insofar as how they can illegally spy on them. Naw, could never happen. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
The enlightened person, according to MMY's teaching, doesn't make mistakes *from nature's perspective*; but it's entirely possible for nature to want the enlightened person to make a mistake, for nature's own unfathomable purposes (e.g., to nudge the person's followers into using their own judgment). I could never get this excuse to fly when I was married. How does he pull this off? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, coshlnx coshlnx@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: However, there could be a good deal of semantic ambiguity here, in light of how MMY defines Unity consciousness. In other words: Does he have the ability to want to do siddhis on demand, independently of what nature wants? If he is enlightened, then what nature wants and what he does are the same thing; indistinguishable. This is speculation, not a trace of evidence for it. Just to clarify the context, it had to do with whether what MMY teaches is internally consistent, not whether what he teaches is true. Equally speculative but not as much based on flawed authorities like MMY would be the statement that among the unenlightened, and the E'd, there are varying degrees of what nature wants. snip Please, no MMY said so - therefore it must be true!. This is a frequent mistake people make, *assuming* that Maharishi [or another guru] is enlightened (I think psychologists refer to this phenomenon as transference), and then based on that assumption, interpret what Maharishi says as true, often misintepreting and misunderstanding what the guru says. It's the second part of this that causes the most trouble, IMO. At least (again) in the context of what MMY teaches, the dictum that enlightened people don't make mistakes is frequently misunderstood (and MMY hasn't done a whole lot to clarify it). The enlightened person, according to MMY's teaching, doesn't make mistakes *from nature's perspective*; but it's entirely possible for nature to want the enlightened person to make a mistake, for nature's own unfathomable purposes (e.g., to nudge the person's followers into using their own judgment). Another point to make for you: argue for your limitations and they are yours. That is one of the completely different ways of functioning of an enlightened person. Before enlightenment, it is all intention based on ego, which is not a bad thing, just a lot harder. After enlightenment, there is not much ownership, it is just easier to do what nature wants because it is easiest to support nature, and in turn nature supports us. I know it sounds crazy, but it is simply the way it is. So intention exists, and desires exist and dedicated thought and action exist, but supported by nature. It is just easier. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Groups gets a make over. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/XISQkA/lOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bush Administration Quietly Plans NAFTA Super Highway?
Not to mention that it's another act of someone who just will not listen to his people. In this way Bush is exactly like Maharishi. He is a megalomaniac. He wants his friends in Dubai to have some stake in American soil in spite of the no to port security deal, and the no to border security deal, and the all the other Dubaious deals. Bush is the biggest friend of the Bin Ladens, and so I ask, who is the terrorist? Who made the terrorists? Why now have they come now, and who will pay the price for all this treachery. You Mark, and Me, and all of us who don't have bunkers. You might say each thing is unrelated to the others. But you're wrong. It's all related through the doomsday mindset of this addled Born Again. The Church is controlling the State, nay it is setting the State up for Doomsday. But that's fine with me. I'm over it. If I thought America was somehow different from all other republics then I wouldn't have studied my history. History shows that external conquest of other peoples occurs right before the fall of that nation. Due to overextension of resources, and lack of concern for the elements which comprise the nation, ie., the people. As soon as innocents became mere 'collateral' the nation became doomed. Moreover the telling overreaching of authority of the Marines who have Abu Graibed all sorts of people shows the preposterous stance of our country. When no moral people exist any longer in a nation its days are numbered. When people applaud the decimation ofa foreignnation it's all too telling. It means that that cself congratulating nation is at its peak. It feels it can do no wrong, and what goes up must come down, and the bigger they are the harder they fall. It's just history. Should America take over the world, it will no longer be America. So in any case this overextention of our leaders shows the fall of this once great nation. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
'Nature' is a fallacy. This teaching is the bane of religious ethics and morality. The same issue was used by Hitler and is a mainstay of all megalomaniacs to allow them to issue any fatwa that they wish. - Original Message - From: curtisdeltablues To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 10:21 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field' "The enlightened person,according to MMY's teaching, doesn't makemistakes *from nature's "perspective"*; but it'sentirely possible for nature to "want" theenlightened person to make a mistake, fornature's own unfathomable purposes (e.g., tonudge the person's followers into using theirown judgment)."I could never get this excuse to fly when I was married. How does hepull this off?--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" jflanegi@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "coshlnx" coshlnx@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" jflanegi@wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" jstein@ wrote: However, there could be a good deal of semantic ambiguity here, in light of how MMY defines Unity consciousness. In other words: Does he have the ability to want to do siddhis on demand, independently of what nature "wants"?If he is enlightened, then what nature wants and what he does are the same thing; indistinguishable. This is speculation, not a trace of evidence for it. Just to clarify the context, it had to do with whether what MMY teaches is internally consistent, not whether what he teaches is "true." Equallyspeculative but not as much based on flawed authorities like MMYwould be the statement that among the unenlightened, and the E'd,there are varying degrees of "what nature wants". snip Please, no "MMY said so" - therefore it must be true!. This is a frequent mistake people make, *assuming* that Maharishi [or another guru] is enlightened (I think psychologists refer to this phenomenon as transference), and then based on that assumption, interpret what Maharishi says as true, often misintepreting and misunderstanding what the guru says. It's the second part of this that causes the most trouble, IMO. At least (again) in the context of what MMY teaches, the dictum that enlightened people "don't make mistakes" is frequently misunderstood (and MMY hasn't done a whole lot to clarify it). The enlightened person, according to MMY's teaching, doesn't make mistakes *from nature's "perspective"*; but it's entirely possible for nature to "want" the enlightened person to make a mistake, for nature's own unfathomable purposes (e.g., to nudge the person's followers into using their own judgment). Another point to make for you: argue for your limitations and they are yours. That is one of the completely different ways of functioning of an enlightened person. Before enlightenment, it is all intention based on ego, which is not a bad thing, just a lot harder. After enlightenment, there is not much ownership, it is just easier to do what nature wants because it is easiest to support nature, and in turn nature supports us. I know it sounds crazy, but it issimply the way it is. So intention exists, and desires exist and dedicated thought and action exist, but supported by nature. It is justeasier. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Groups gets a make over. See the new email design.http://us.click.yahoo.com/XISQkA/lOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM~- To subscribe, send a message to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links* To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is a frequent mistake people make, *assuming* that Maharishi [or another guru] is enlightened (I think psychologists refer to this phenomenon as transference), and then based on that assumption, interpret what Maharishi says as true, often misintepreting and misunderstanding what the guru says. I am pretty sure we got this idea about his state from him. I don't think it is assumptive on our part. If you treat him in any way other then as enlightened master you are quickly escorted out of the room. It is not assumed, it is enforced. I have to agree with Curtis here. If not escorted from the room, you are certainly never welcomed back to it. Feedback that is not of the I agree with you completely, Maharishi was often perceived as disrespectful and a direct challenge to his authority. Another related issue is that people often take what a teacher says out of context. A statement is made in a particular room in a particular situation to a particular person and in front of a particular audience, and some people want to interpret that statement as universally true for all rooms, situations, people and audiences. Big mistake. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Groups gets a make over. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/XISQkA/lOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
So many people here considering themselves freethinking TMers who have gotten away from the cultish mentality, and yet, like a grain of sand in an oyster, people have made a pearl out of the utter mythical nonsense that MMY taught, which was based on lies, misappropriation of truth and others resources, and then they call him Shiva. Ha Ha. - Original Message - From: Kirk To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 10:35 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field' 'Nature' is a fallacy. This teaching is the bane of religious ethics and morality. The same issue was used by Hitler and is a mainstay of all megalomaniacs to allow them to issue any fatwa that they wish. - Original Message - From: curtisdeltablues To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 10:21 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field' "The enlightened person,according to MMY's teaching, doesn't makemistakes *from nature's "perspective"*; but it'sentirely possible for nature to "want" theenlightened person to make a mistake, fornature's own unfathomable purposes (e.g., tonudge the person's followers into using theirown judgment)."I could never get this excuse to fly when I was married. How does hepull this off?--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" jflanegi@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "coshlnx" coshlnx@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" jflanegi@wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" jstein@ wrote: However, there could be a good deal of semantic ambiguity here, in light of how MMY defines Unity consciousness. In other words: Does he have the ability to want to do siddhis on demand, independently of what nature "wants"?If he is enlightened, then what nature wants and what he does are the same thing; indistinguishable. This is speculation, not a trace of evidence for it. Just to clarify the context, it had to do with whether what MMY teaches is internally consistent, not whether what he teaches is "true." Equallyspeculative but not as much based on flawed authorities like MMYwould be the statement that among the unenlightened, and the E'd,there are varying degrees of "what nature wants". snip Please, no "MMY said so" - therefore it must be true!. This is a frequent mistake people make, *assuming* that Maharishi [or another guru] is enlightened (I think psychologists refer to this phenomenon as transference), and then based on that assumption, interpret what Maharishi says as true, often misintepreting and misunderstanding what the guru says. It's the second part of this that causes the most trouble, IMO. At least (again) in the context of what MMY teaches, the dictum that enlightened people "don't make mistakes" is frequently misunderstood (and MMY hasn't done a whole lot to clarify it). The enlightened person, according to MMY's teaching, doesn't make mistakes *from nature's "perspective"*; but it's entirely possible for nature to "want" the enlightened person to make a mistake, for nature's own unfathomable purposes (e.g., to nudge the person's followers into using their own judgment). Another point to make for you: argue for your limitations and they are yours. That is one of the completely different ways of functioning of an enlightened person. Before enlightenment, it is all intention based on ego, which is not a bad thing, just a lot harder. After enlightenment, there is not much ownership, it is just easier to do what nature wants because it is easiest to support nature, and in turn nature supports us. I know it sounds crazy, but it issimply the way it is. So intention exists, and desires exist and dedicated thought and action exist, but supported by nature. It is justeasier. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Groups gets a make over. See the new email design.http://us.click.yahoo.com/XISQkA/lOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM~- To subscribe, send a message to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links* To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 'Nature' is a fallacy. This teaching is the bane of religious ethics and morality. The same issue was used by Hitler and is a mainstay of all megalomaniacs to allow them to issue any fatwa that they wish. I don't think we should give up on it so fast. I mean what if we could use it in a more limited context. Like we could say , I was going to take out the trash but nature wanted me to watch TV. I don't think we should use it for lipstick stains on collors. For that I suggest the mistake of the intellect line. As in honey lets not make a mistake of the intellect and conclude that this shade is your hot best friend's. It may be in our best interest to use this, not for large scale evil, but just to give a dude a break around the house once in a while. - Original Message - From: curtisdeltablues To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 10:21 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field' The enlightened person, according to MMY's teaching, doesn't make mistakes *from nature's perspective*; but it's entirely possible for nature to want the enlightened person to make a mistake, for nature's own unfathomable purposes (e.g., to nudge the person's followers into using their own judgment). I could never get this excuse to fly when I was married. How does he pull this off? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, coshlnx coshlnx@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: However, there could be a good deal of semantic ambiguity here, in light of how MMY defines Unity consciousness. In other words: Does he have the ability to want to do siddhis on demand, independently of what nature wants? If he is enlightened, then what nature wants and what he does are the same thing; indistinguishable. This is speculation, not a trace of evidence for it. Just to clarify the context, it had to do with whether what MMY teaches is internally consistent, not whether what he teaches is true. Equally speculative but not as much based on flawed authorities like MMY would be the statement that among the unenlightened, and the E'd, there are varying degrees of what nature wants. snip Please, no MMY said so - therefore it must be true!. This is a frequent mistake people make, *assuming* that Maharishi [or another guru] is enlightened (I think psychologists refer to this phenomenon as transference), and then based on that assumption, interpret what Maharishi says as true, often misintepreting and misunderstanding what the guru says. It's the second part of this that causes the most trouble, IMO. At least (again) in the context of what MMY teaches, the dictum that enlightened people don't make mistakes is frequently misunderstood (and MMY hasn't done a whole lot to clarify it). The enlightened person, according to MMY's teaching, doesn't make mistakes *from nature's perspective*; but it's entirely possible for nature to want the enlightened person to make a mistake, for nature's own unfathomable purposes (e.g., to nudge the person's followers into using their own judgment). Another point to make for you: argue for your limitations and they are yours. That is one of the completely different ways of functioning of an enlightened person. Before enlightenment, it is all intention based on ego, which is not a bad thing, just a lot harder. After enlightenment, there is not much ownership, it is just easier to do what nature wants because it is easiest to support nature, and in turn nature supports us. I know it sounds crazy, but it is simply the way it is. So intention exists, and desires exist and dedicated thought and action exist, but supported by nature. It is just easier. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Groups gets a make over. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/XISQkA/lOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to:
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
On Jun 14, 2006, at 7:43 PM, sparaig wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 14, 2006, at 3:20 PM, curtisdeltablues wrote: Good points. This one interested me the most: "rather by recognizing that mysticism is completely beyond science." It is beyond the scientific method in its focus and range, but I think Sam Harris would claim that when it talks about how the world "is" mysticism enters the field where logic does apply. You mentioned that Schroedinger is a physicist, a world class one at that from what I understand. But Physics is a field driven by math skills and I don't think that gives him a leg up on this kind of discussion over say...you or Chopra. It is all speculation about life. He leaves his credibility in his own field far behind on these topics. Because you have gained something from it, I will spend some more time thinking about it. Curtis you might enjoy the following brief talk with Ken Wilber where he answers the question "does quantum physics prove god?" where he rather elegantly explains that the quantum state is not unmanifest spirit/brahman/the tao/PC. Interesting talk. Not so interesting for the TM quantum mysticism, but rather embarrassing. I think by extension you could conclude that a mysticism based on Quantum physics is pretty bad mysticism... It's on page two: http://www.kenwilber.com/professional/media/index.html And how would he know? Uh, he's a physicist and a mystic? __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is a frequent mistake people make, *assuming* that Maharishi [or another guru] is enlightened (I think psychologists refer to this phenomenon as transference), and then based on that assumption, interpret what Maharishi says as true, often misintepreting and misunderstanding what the guru says. I am pretty sure we got this idea about his state from him. I don't think it is assumptive on our part. If you treat him in any way other then as enlightened master you are quickly escorted out of the room. It is not assumed, it is enforced. I can't say, never met him, except once in a dream and that doesn't count. My point above was the *assumption* that many (all?) of his followers make. Just because he said he was enlightened, why did they believe it? And also regarding getting escorted out, were those that this happened to respectful? Just curious, because we'd be treated similarly in any company meeting if openly challenging a CEO disrespecfully- not making any assumptions here, just gethering info. Thanks Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Great things are happening at Yahoo! Groups. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/TISQkA/hOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
The real mistake of the intellect from a true jnana perspective is the reification of any 'concept' as if it has some ultimate value. Thereby conditions are set up. The true majestic status of life is thereby undermined by the intellect, that is usurped from direct cognition instead into some new dualistic rendition. This is the truth of the Mahasidha.That all truths are merely the intellectual constructs of dvaitins. - Original Message - From: curtisdeltablues To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 10:50 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field' --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Kirk" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 'Nature' is a fallacy. This teaching is the bane of religious ethicsand morality. The same issue was used by Hitler and is a mainstay ofall megalomaniacs to allow them to issue any fatwa that they wish. I don't think we should give up on it so fast. I mean what if wecould use it in a more limited context. Like we could say , "I wasgoing to take out the trash but nature wanted me to watch TV."I don't think we should use it for lipstick stains on collors. Forthat I suggest the " mistake of the intellect" line. As in "honeylets not make a mistake of the intellect and conclude that this shadeis your hot best friend's."It may be in our best interest to use this, not for large scale evil,but just to give a dude a break around the house once in a while. - Original Message - From: curtisdeltablues To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 10:21 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field' "The enlightened person, according to MMY's teaching, doesn't make mistakes *from nature's "perspective"*; but it's entirely possible for nature to "want" the enlightened person to make a mistake, for nature's own unfathomable purposes (e.g., to nudge the person's followers into using their own judgment)." I could never get this excuse to fly when I was married. How does he pull this off? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" jflanegi@wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "coshlnx" coshlnx@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" jflanegi@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" jstein@ wrote: However, there could be a good deal of semantic ambiguity here, in light of how MMY defines Unity consciousness. In other words: Does he have the ability to want to do siddhis on demand, independently of what nature "wants"? If he is enlightened, then what nature wants and what he doesare the same thing; indistinguishable. This is speculation, not a trace of evidence for it. Just to clarify the context, it had to do with whether what MMY teaches is internally consistent, not whether what he teaches is "true."Equally speculative but not as much based on flawed authorities like MMY would be the statement that among the unenlightened, and the E'd, there are varying degrees of "what nature wants". snip Please,no "MMY said so" - therefore it must be true!. This is a frequent mistake people make, *assuming* that Maharishi[or another guru] is enlightened (I think psychologists refer tothis phenomenon as transference), and then based on thatassumption, interpret what Maharishi says as true, often misintepreting and misunderstanding what the guru says.It's the second part of this that causes the most trouble, IMO. At least (again) in the context of what MMY teaches, the dictum that enlightened people "don't make mistakes" is frequently misunderstood (and MMY hasn't done a whole lot to clarify it). The enlightened person, according to MMY's teaching, doesn't make mistakes *from nature's "perspective"*; but it's entirely possible for nature to "want" the enlightened person to make a mistake, for nature's own unfathomable purposes (e.g., to nudge the person's followers into using their own judgment). Another point to make for you: argue for your limitations and theyare yours. That is one of the completely different ways of functioning ofan enlightened person. Before enlightenment, it is all intentionbased on ego, which is not a bad thing, just a lot harder. After enlightenment, there is not much ownership, it is justeasier to do what nature wants because it is easiest to supportnature, and in turn nature supports us. I know it sounds crazy, but it is simply the way it is. So intention exists, and desires exist anddedicated thought and action exist, but supported by nature. It is just easier. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, coshlnx coshlnx@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: snip in the context of what MMY teaches, the dictum that enlightened people don't make mistakes is frequently misunderstood (and MMY hasn't done a whole lot to clarify it). The enlightened person, according to MMY's teaching, doesn't make mistakes *from nature's perspective*; but it's entirely possible for nature to want the enlightened person to make a mistake, for nature's own unfathomable purposes (e.g., to nudge the person's followers into using their own judgment). How could it be possible for an enlightened person to act without making mistakes, and have potentially 6 billion witnesses to every action of the enlightened person state that yes, no mistakes were ever made? Not now, not on this planet. It is a silly thought, and clearly impossible. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Something is new at Yahoo! Groups. Check out the enhanced email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/SISQkA/gOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So many people here considering themselves freethinking TMers who have gotten away from the cultish mentality, and yet, like a grain of sand in an oyster, people have made a pearl out of the utter mythical nonsense that MMY taught, which was based on lies, misappropriation of truth and others resources, and then they call him Shiva. Ha Ha. - Original Message - From: Kirk To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 10:35 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field' 'Nature' is a fallacy. This teaching is the bane of religious ethics and morality. The same issue was used by Hitler and is a mainstay of all megalomaniacs to allow them to issue any fatwa that they wish. - Original Message - From: curtisdeltablues To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 10:21 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field' The enlightened person, according to MMY's teaching, doesn't make mistakes *from nature's perspective*; but it's entirely possible for nature to want the enlightened person to make a mistake, for nature's own unfathomable purposes (e.g., to nudge the person's followers into using their own judgment). I could never get this excuse to fly when I was married. How does he pull this off? snip get 'married' to him and you'll see... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Check out the new improvements in Yahoo! Groups email. http://us.click.yahoo.com/6pRQfA/fOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bush Administration Quietly Plans NAFTA Super Highway?
In a message dated 6/15/06 10:36:28 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: So in any case this overextention of our leaders shows the fall of this once great nation. Kirk, I'm curious, when, in your eyes, was our nation great and when did it start to fall? A time frame is what I'm looking for. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
On Jun 15, 2006, at 2:20 AM, sparaig wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That was really interesting, thanks! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: On Jun 14, 2006, at 3:20 PM, curtisdeltablues wrote: Good points. This one interested me the most: "rather by recognizing that mysticism is completely beyond science." It is beyond the scientific method in its focus and range, but I think Sam Harris would claim that when it talks about how the world "is" mysticism enters the field where logic does apply. You mentioned that Schroedinger is a physicist, a world class one at that from what I understand. But Physics is a field driven by math skills and I don't think that gives him a leg up on this kind of discussion over say...you or Chopra. It is all speculation about life. He leaves his credibility in his own field far behind on these topics. Because you have gained something from it, I will spend some more time thinking about it. Curtis you might enjoy the following brief talk with Ken Wilber where he answers the question "does quantum physics prove god?" where he rather elegantly explains that the quantum state is not unmanifest spirit/brahman/the tao/PC. Interesting talk. Not so interesting for the TM quantum mysticism, but rather embarrassing. I think by extension you could conclude that a mysticism based on Quantum physics is pretty bad mysticism... It's on page two: http://www.kenwilber.com/professional/media/index.html Well, let's see, Ken Wilber, a rather superficial (sorry Judy) philosopher who has had a few grad-level QM courses as part of his work in biology, concludes that QM can't have anything to do with "true mysticism," whatever that means, vs John Hagelin, who published a bunch of papers in the field, including the 27th most important paper of all time in the field.He also got the Ig Nobel Prize, which is for "achievements" that "cannot, or should not, be reproduced", i.e., for pseudoscience. Yeah, anyone that listens to Ken WIlber about anything shows bad mysticism.Would that include his old friend Skip Alexander? Not only is his treatment of QM and strings (the most popular theory has 10 dimensions, not 11 --the 11th is used to reconcile the various 10-dimensional theories with each other, IIRC) superficial, but his treatment of enlightenment is equally superficial.Have you read any of his books on this topic, they're pretty friggin' detailed (not that I agree with everything he says).It was probably quite hard for him to be honest enough to come out and say a lot of this on physics and mysticism--esp. since it goes against the grain of what many of his friends are saying. Sheesh. This is the guy that everyone worships?Worships? Everyone? __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So many people here considering themselves freethinking TMers who have gotten away from the cultish mentality, and yet, like a grain of sand in an oyster, people have made a pearl out of the utter mythical nonsense that MMY taught, which was based on lies, misappropriation of truth and others resources, and then they call him Shiva. Ha Ha. snip I know- sounds completely insane, huh? Oh well... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Something is new at Yahoo! Groups. Check out the enhanced email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/SISQkA/gOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bush Administration Quietly Plans NAFTA Super Highway?
In a message dated 6/15/06 11:06:00 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If you had said something different M, I would have freaked, lost my footing, and maybe hit my head on something in surprise. I don't suppose you find that the new supercorridor may well destroy all livelihood flowing from Mississippi River ingress/egress, I don't suppose you might find this the plan of a solipsistic Texan who really believes that Texas should control all ingress/egress to/from the US, or that such a plan will ipso facto create an almost omnipotent border control state of Texas, able to smuggle anything into the country as it wishes without any sort of check or balances. No you wouldn't consider those ideas because Bush can do no wrong. I don't suppose you might wonder how easy/difficult it may become to cross from East/West West/East across this huge mega road, thus effectively dividing the country into two. So many questions that I have, but no answers from responsive governmental persons I'm sure will ever be forthcoming, because the government has ceased to listen to the people in except insofar as how they can illegally spy on them. Naw, could never happen. Messages in this topic (5) Reply (via web post) | Start a Kirk! I can't believe the paranoia you are exhibiting! Is this really about Bush or Texas? Are you really afraid you wont be able to cross the road, LOL? This isn't the first time the nation was *divided* by a corridor of commerce. Remember therailroad fromeast to west, dividing the North from the South,by the way a large portion of which was paid by Southerners taxes, and not one mile of that railroad went through one Southern State. Kirk please, roads are always good for commerce which means more jobs for everybody and the security can be as good or as bad as anybody wants to make it. But then I guess everybody in government needs to drop what they are doing and hold your hand and splain things to you. I think it would be more wise to seek a psychiatrist and deal with your paranoia especially if you think the government is spying on you. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The enlightened person, according to MMY's teaching, doesn't make mistakes *from nature's perspective*; but it's entirely possible for nature to want the enlightened person to make a mistake, for nature's own unfathomable purposes (e.g., to nudge the person's followers into using their own judgment). I could never get this excuse to fly when I was married. How does he pull this off? Did your wife perhaps have some doubts about whether you were enlightened? (Again, I'm extrapolating from MMY's teaching; as I said, *he* doesn't make this clear, that I've heard, but it's implied, it seems to me, by the other things he says about the nature of enlightenment and his commentary on the Gita's Unfathomable is the nature of action.) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Check out the new improvements in Yahoo! Groups email. http://us.click.yahoo.com/6pRQfA/fOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: This is a frequent mistake people make, *assuming* that Maharishi [or another guru] is enlightened (I think psychologists refer to this phenomenon as transference), and then based on that assumption, interpret what Maharishi says as true, often misintepreting and misunderstanding what the guru says. I am pretty sure we got this idea about his state from him. I don't think it is assumptive on our part. If you treat him in any way other then as enlightened master you are quickly escorted out of the room. It is not assumed, it is enforced. I have to agree with Curtis here. If not escorted from the room, you are certainly never welcomed back to it. Feedback that is not of the I agree with you completely, Maharishi was often perceived as disrespectful and a direct challenge to his authority. I remember seeing a fascinating tape in which a very young Keith Wallace argued *vigorously* with MMY about something or other--I think it had to do with how you could tell you were witnessing, but I can't recall the details. Anybody else know the tape I mean? Another related issue is that people often take what a teacher says out of context. A statement is made in a particular room in a particular situation to a particular person and in front of a particular audience, and some people want to interpret that statement as universally true for all rooms, situations, people and audiences. Big mistake. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Check out the new improvements in Yahoo! Groups email. http://us.click.yahoo.com/6pRQfA/fOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bush Administration Quietly Plans NAFTA Super Highway?
Kirk wrote: Not to mention that it's another act of someone who just will not listen to his people. In this way Bush is exactly like Maharishi. He is a megalomaniac. He wants his friends in Dubai to have some stake in American soil in spite of the no to port security deal, and the no to border security deal, and the all the other Dubaious deals. Bush is the biggest friend of the Bin Ladens, and so I ask, who is the terrorist? Who made the terrorists? Why now have they come now, and who will pay the price for all this treachery. You Mark, and Me, and all of us who don't have bunkers. You might say each thing is unrelated to the others. But you're wrong. It's all related through the doomsday mindset of this addled Born Again. The Church is controlling the State, nay it is setting the State up for Doomsday. But that's fine with me. I'm over it. If I thought America was somehow different from all other republics then I wouldn't have studied my history. History shows that external conquest of other peoples occurs right before the fall of that nation. Due to overextension of resources, and lack of concern for the elements which comprise the nation, ie., the people. As soon as innocents became mere 'collateral' the nation became doomed. Moreover the telling overreaching of authority of the Marines who have Abu Graibed all sorts of people shows the preposterous stance of our country. When no moral people exist any longer in a nation its days are numbered. When people applaud the decimation of a foreign nation it's all too telling. It means that that cself congratulating nation is at its peak. It feels it can do no wrong, and what goes up must come down, and the bigger they are the harder they fall. It's just history. Should America take over the world, it will no longer be America. So in any case this overextention of our leaders shows the fall of this once great nation. I don't think this is about America taking over the world but I think its more the Globalists taking over America. It is becoming a country I no longer recognize. Just this morning we have the Supremes saying that cops don't have to knock when they have a warrant.Some folks compare what is happening with law enforcement to the gestapo but from what I learned about the KGB from Russian friends they are becoming more like the KGB, especially the NSA and Homeland Security. Did you know that under the new Patriot Act to interfere with commerce (and apparently that would include criticizing something like this NAFTA Super Highway) makes you a terrorist? So I guess FFL is a terrorist group. :) Fuck 'em I say. I don't know about anyone else but I'm becoming more and more an anarchist everyday and only obey laws that make sense like not running stop lights. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- See what's inside the new Yahoo! Groups email. http://us.click.yahoo.com/2pRQfA/bOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
And also regarding getting escorted out, were those that this happened to respectful? Just curious, because we'd be treated similarly in any company meeting if openly challenging a CEO disrespecfully- not making any assumptions here, just gethering info. Thanks You make a good point here. Controlling the room is something Bush does too and I'll bet seeing Trump personally isn't easy if you are a skeptic. That did not prove my point. The question becomes, does he claim to be enlightened. I vote yes. Just because he said he was enlightened, why did they believe it? This is a deep point. I'm sure you know all about Lifton's perspective. That is my guess. My conscious rational mind was not functioning properly. Plus I believe the darshon experience is real and powerful. I just do not believe the traditional interpretation of what it means. People who saw Mao described the experience in similar terms of people's description of personal contact with a master. I don't believe it was because he was a radiator of pure being. It may just be one of those mental experiences that had an evolutionary value when not deferring to the alpha chimp could mean death. Just a guess. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: This is a frequent mistake people make, *assuming* that Maharishi [or another guru] is enlightened (I think psychologists refer to this phenomenon as transference), and then based on that assumption, interpret what Maharishi says as true, often misintepreting and misunderstanding what the guru says. I am pretty sure we got this idea about his state from him. I don't think it is assumptive on our part. If you treat him in any way other then as enlightened master you are quickly escorted out of the room. It is not assumed, it is enforced. I can't say, never met him, except once in a dream and that doesn't count. My point above was the *assumption* that many (all?) of his followers make. Just because he said he was enlightened, why did they believe it? And also regarding getting escorted out, were those that this happened to respectful? Just curious, because we'd be treated similarly in any company meeting if openly challenging a CEO disrespecfully- not making any assumptions here, just gethering info. Thanks Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Great things are happening at Yahoo! Groups. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/TISQkA/hOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 15, 2006, at 2:20 AM, sparaig wrote: snip Well, let's see, Ken Wilber, a rather superficial (sorry Judy) philosopher who has had a few grad-level QM courses as part of his work in biology, concludes that QM can't have anything to do with true mysticism, whatever that means, vs John Hagelin, who published a bunch of papers in the field, including the 27th most important paper of all time in the field. He also got the Ig Nobel Prize, which is for achievements that cannot, or should not, be reproduced, i.e., for pseudoscience. For the record (I could have sworn I made this point to you before, Vaj), the Ig Nobel is not for pseudoscience, or not *just* for pseudoscience. Plenty of perfectly legitimate scientific achievements are awarded the Ig Nobel because they're weird in one way or another. Those are covered by the or should not part. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Groups gets a make over. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/XISQkA/lOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
Did your wife perhaps have some doubts about whether you were enlightened? Yeah, that was it. She had way too much counter-evidence! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: The enlightened person, according to MMY's teaching, doesn't make mistakes *from nature's perspective*; but it's entirely possible for nature to want the enlightened person to make a mistake, for nature's own unfathomable purposes (e.g., to nudge the person's followers into using their own judgment). I could never get this excuse to fly when I was married. How does he pull this off? Did your wife perhaps have some doubts about whether you were enlightened? (Again, I'm extrapolating from MMY's teaching; as I said, *he* doesn't make this clear, that I've heard, but it's implied, it seems to me, by the other things he says about the nature of enlightenment and his commentary on the Gita's Unfathomable is the nature of action.) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Something is new at Yahoo! Groups. Check out the enhanced email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/SISQkA/gOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And also regarding getting escorted out, were those that this happened to respectful? Just curious, because we'd be treated similarly in any company meeting if openly challenging a CEO disrespecfully- not making any assumptions here, just gethering info. Thanks You make a good point here. Controlling the room is something Bush does too and I'll bet seeing Trump personally isn't easy if you are a skeptic. That did not prove my point. The question becomes, does he claim to be enlightened. I vote yes. And my question remains, so what? Just because he said he was enlightened, why did they believe it? This is a deep point. I'm sure you know all about Lifton's perspective. That is my guess. My conscious rational mind was not functioning properly. Plus I believe the darshon experience is real and powerful. I just do not believe the traditional interpretation of what it means. People who saw Mao described the experience in similar terms of people's description of personal contact with a master. I don't believe it was because he was a radiator of pure being. It may just be one of those mental experiences that had an evolutionary value when not deferring to the alpha chimp could mean death. Just a guess. I don't know 'Lifton' or what that refers to. My take on why people ascribe stuff to their teachers is they want to personalize their own inner transformation, and the teacher is a convenient...target? lol. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Something is new at Yahoo! Groups. Check out the enhanced email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/SISQkA/gOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
--- jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So many people here considering themselves freethinking TMers who have gotten away from the cultish mentality, and yet, like a grain of sand in an oyster, people have made a pearl out of the utter mythical nonsense that MMY taught, which was based on lies, misappropriation of truth and others resources, and then they call him Shiva. Ha Ha. snip I know- sounds completely insane, huh? Oh well... MMY=Shiva...You didn't know that? Who else could he be? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Something is new at Yahoo! Groups. Check out the enhanced email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/SISQkA/gOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- See what's inside the new Yahoo! Groups email. http://us.click.yahoo.com/2pRQfA/bOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Just because he said he was enlightened, why did they believe it? This is a deep point. I'm sure you know all about Lifton's perspective. That is my guess. My conscious rational mind was not functioning properly. Plus I believe the darshon experience is real and powerful. I just do not believe the traditional interpretation of what it means. People who saw Mao described the experience in similar terms of people's description of personal contact with a master. I don't believe it was because he was a radiator of pure being. It may just be one of those mental experiences that had an evolutionary value when not deferring to the alpha chimp could mean death. Just a guess. I don't know 'Lifton' or what that refers to. My take on why people ascribe stuff to their teachers is they want to personalize their own inner transformation, and the teacher is a convenient...target? lol. I think you're making a simple thing complicated. In many if not most cases the 'darshan' thang is not a factor because many TM teachers have never met Maharishi or been in the same room with them, much less rank-and-file meditators. I think it's as simple as the fact that they just paid a lot of money for a technique that promises enlightenment, and they hopefully assume that the seller is enlightened and that their money was not wasted. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- See what's inside the new Yahoo! Groups email. http://us.click.yahoo.com/2pRQfA/bOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bush Administration Quietly Plans NAFTA Super Highway?
It was great prior to the usurping of the presidency by the right. Now it is a dictatorship. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 11:07 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bush Administration Quietly Plans NAFTA Super Highway? In a message dated 6/15/06 10:36:28 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: So in any case this overextention of our leaders shows the fall of this once great nation. Kirk, I'm curious, when, in your eyes, was our nation great and when did it start to fall? A time frame is what I'm looking for. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: That was really interesting, thanks! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: On Jun 14, 2006, at 3:20 PM, curtisdeltablues wrote: Good points. This one interested me the most: rather by recognizing that mysticism is completely beyond science. It is beyond the scientific method in its focus and range, but I think Sam Harris would claim that when it talks about how the world is mysticism enters the field where logic does apply. You mentioned that Schroedinger is a physicist, a world class one at that from what I understand. But Physics is a field driven by math skills and I don't think that gives him a leg up on this kind of discussion over say...you or Chopra. It is all speculation about life. He leaves his credibility in his own field far behind on these topics. Because you have gained something from it, I will spend some more time thinking about it. Curtis you might enjoy the following brief talk with Ken Wilber where he answers the question does quantum physics prove god? where he rather elegantly explains that the quantum state is not unmanifest spirit/brahman/the tao/PC. Interesting talk. Not so interesting for the TM quantum mysticism, but rather embarrassing. I think by extension you could conclude that a mysticism based on Quantum physics is pretty bad mysticism... It's on page two: http://www.kenwilber.com/professional/media/index.html Well, let's see, Ken Wilber, a rather superficial (sorry Judy) philosopher who has had a few grad-level QM courses as part of his work in biology, concludes that QM can't have anything to do with true mysticism, whatever that means, vs John Hagelin, who published a bunch of papers in the field, including the 27th most important paper of all time in the field. Couple things, Lawson. I don't recommend Wilber as a profound philosopher per se, but I do think he has some very clear insights into various aspects of the relationship between science and mysticism. I don't think this particular talk touted by Vaj shows those insights at their best, however. I'd recommend instead his introduction to Quantum Questions and several of the chapters in Eye to Eye. Also, I'm not at all sure what Wilber says in this vein contradicts Hagelin. I think their approaches come from very different angles and that they aren't really talking about the same thing. He mentions the so-called experts from what the Bleep Do We Know, which presents Hagelin as a top Quantum Physicist. I'd be greatly surprised if he did NOT mean to denounce Hagelin's talk in the movie. Yeah, anyone that listens to Ken WIlber about anything shows bad mysticism. (You meant Hagelin here, not Wilber, right?) I meant Wilber. Not only is his treatment of QM and strings (the most popular theory has 10 dimensions, not 11 --the 11th is used to reconcile the various 10-dimensional theories with each other, IIRC) superficial, but his treatment of enlightenment is equally superficial. Sheesh. This is the guy that everyone worships? How much have you read of what he's written? I was going by the talk, which was represented as showing that anyone who talks about QM and mysticism is doing bad mysticism. Wotta maroon. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Something is new at Yahoo! Groups. Check out the enhanced email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/SISQkA/gOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bush Administration Quietly Plans NAFTA Super Highway?
I think it would be more wise to seek a psychiatrist and deal with your paranoia especially if you think the government is spying on yo You don't think the governent is spying on us? http://www.aclu.org/safefree/spying/index.html http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1281281.html http://www.aclu.org/safefree/spyfiles/index.html_.___ Where have you been? __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
I don't know 'Lifton' or what that refers to. My take on why people ascribe stuff to their teachers is they want to personalize their own inner transformation, and the teacher is a convenient...target? lol. I'm sure this is true in many relationships. I think when he adopted the name Maharishi, he was stacking the deck in favor of that belief. But I respect your emphasis on personal responsibility. Lifton is a thought-reform expert. His work had a profound impact on my perspective of my experiences in TM. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: And also regarding getting escorted out, were those that this happened to respectful? Just curious, because we'd be treated similarly in any company meeting if openly challenging a CEO disrespecfully- not making any assumptions here, just gethering info. Thanks You make a good point here. Controlling the room is something Bush does too and I'll bet seeing Trump personally isn't easy if you are a skeptic. That did not prove my point. The question becomes, does he claim to be enlightened. I vote yes. And my question remains, so what? Just because he said he was enlightened, why did they believe it? This is a deep point. I'm sure you know all about Lifton's perspective. That is my guess. My conscious rational mind was not functioning properly. Plus I believe the darshon experience is real and powerful. I just do not believe the traditional interpretation of what it means. People who saw Mao described the experience in similar terms of people's description of personal contact with a master. I don't believe it was because he was a radiator of pure being. It may just be one of those mental experiences that had an evolutionary value when not deferring to the alpha chimp could mean death. Just a guess. I don't know 'Lifton' or what that refers to. My take on why people ascribe stuff to their teachers is they want to personalize their own inner transformation, and the teacher is a convenient...target? lol. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Something is new at Yahoo! Groups. Check out the enhanced email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/SISQkA/gOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 14, 2006, at 7:43 PM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: On Jun 14, 2006, at 3:20 PM, curtisdeltablues wrote: Good points. This one interested me the most: rather by recognizing that mysticism is completely beyond science. It is beyond the scientific method in its focus and range, but I think Sam Harris would claim that when it talks about how the world is mysticism enters the field where logic does apply. You mentioned that Schroedinger is a physicist, a world class one at that from what I understand. But Physics is a field driven by math skills and I don't think that gives him a leg up on this kind of discussion over say...you or Chopra. It is all speculation about life. He leaves his credibility in his own field far behind on these topics. Because you have gained something from it, I will spend some more time thinking about it. Curtis you might enjoy the following brief talk with Ken Wilber where he answers the question does quantum physics prove god? where he rather elegantly explains that the quantum state is not unmanifest spirit/brahman/the tao/PC. Interesting talk. Not so interesting for the TM quantum mysticism, but rather embarrassing. I think by extension you could conclude that a mysticism based on Quantum physics is pretty bad mysticism... It's on page two: http://www.kenwilber.com/professional/media/index.html And how would he know? Uh, he's a physicist and a mystic? He said he studied QM in college for his grad degree in biology and mystic is a rather broad term. I wouldn't term him a mystic in the TM sense of being enlightened. Not when he talks about the need to be able to focus on objects for 5 minutes non-stop in order to progress to higher practices... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Groups gets a make over. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/XISQkA/lOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: New file uploaded to FairfieldLife
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, markmeredith2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: I'm not really part of or terribly interested in this conversation, but a funny thought just struck me. How long do you think it will take after Maharishi dies for the True Believers to add his name to the puja? I'd bet less than five years. As long as the TMO survives as MMY wants it tok, MMY's name will NEVER be part of the puja. He's had his official portrait added to the tradition of masters as a tiny figure in white standing respectfully to the side, well away from the river that flows through them. Your point is slightly irrelevant. After he dies, the TM movement will survive as the people who run it want it to survive, not as Maharishi wants it. If they want to reinterpret his wishes creatively, they will certainly do so. Just look at the history of *any* spiritual movement after its teacher died. I'd still bet on seeing a pretty determined program of Maharishi glorification. The movement will have lost not only its figurehead, but also the *only* person who could get press any time he wanted it. The public will tend to ignore the TM movement as passe (even more than they do now). So my bet is that people will start coming up with miracle stories and healing stories designed to portray Maharishi as something Really Special. This is really NOT a rap denigrating either TM or the TMO or Maharishi. It's just my guess about what we might see happen after Maharishi's death, based on what has happened in hundreds of spiritual traditions after their teachers' deaths. I don't understand sparaig's description of the new holy tradition picture -- MMY is the same size as Guru Dev, both are larger than all the others, and MMY is standing right next to the river, just like all the others, right at guru dev's feet. It is clearly a visual depiction of MMY being next in line in the tradition. The only distinctive feature is that MMY is standing, not sitting, which to me goes to his still being alive. http://streaming.mou.org/MOU/Sep/wnews_07sep2005prt2_300.wmv He's standing, not sitting. He's in white, not saffron. He's on the other side of Gurudev from the river, and since he and Gurudev are in the foreground, of course they're both larger than someone in the distance. Perspective and all that... He's also holding the offering of leis for Gurudev --no-one else is presenting an offering and Gurudev's head is higher than MMY's even though MMY is standing and Gurudev is sitting. Last year when MMY inaugerated sat yuga, either bevan or hagelin described MMY as the greatest sage to have ever lived on earth, which seems to me to back up T's point. Typical rhetoric by Bevan or maybe John, but both know how insistent MMY is that the puja remain exactly as is. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Great things are happening at Yahoo! Groups. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/TISQkA/hOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, coshlnx coshlnx@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: snip in the context of what MMY teaches, the dictum that enlightened people don't make mistakes is frequently misunderstood (and MMY hasn't done a whole lot to clarify it). The enlightened person, according to MMY's teaching, doesn't make mistakes *from nature's perspective*; but it's entirely possible for nature to want the enlightened person to make a mistake, for nature's own unfathomable purposes (e.g., to nudge the person's followers into using their own judgment). How could it be possible for an enlightened person to act without making mistakes, and have potentially 6 billion witnesses to every action of the enlightened person state that yes, no mistakes were ever made? Not now, not on this planet. It is a silly thought, and clearly impossible. I've always interpretted no mistake as meaning that a mistake is something that detracts from one's evolution towards higher states of consciousness. One could say that as someone evolves, this no mistake thing evolves to include more than one's own personal evolution, or rather, that more and more, one's own personal evolution depends on everyone else's, but I've never seen MMY as claiming that enlightened people never make typos or whatever. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Something is new at Yahoo! Groups. Check out the enhanced email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/SISQkA/gOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
MMY=Shiva...You didn't know that? Who else could hebe? Sudra Mahesh Varma __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip I've always interpretted no mistake as meaning that a mistake is something that detracts from one's evolution towards higher states of consciousness. I'll bet you a zillion dollars you can't come up with an example...; ) One could say that as someone evolves, this no mistake thing evolves to include more than one's own personal evolution, or rather, that more and more, one's own personal evolution depends on everyone else's, We are always connected to everyone else, regardless... but I've never seen MMY as claiming that enlightened people never make typos or whatever. That's good! whew!lol Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Something is new at Yahoo! Groups. Check out the enhanced email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/SISQkA/gOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
A great example of this was when he came here, sometime in the late 70s I think, he apparently made the offhand remark that someone's sari was really nice, or something to that effect. Next time he came--most of the women were wearing saris, and he couldn't believe it and wanted to know why. Sal On Jun 15, 2006, at 10:42 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: Another related issue is that people often take what a teacher says out of context. A statement is made in a particular room in a particular situation to a particular person and in front of a particular audience, and some people want to interpret that statement as universally true for all rooms, situations, people and audiences. Big mistake.
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: MMY=Shiva...You didn't know that? Who else could he be? Sudra Mahesh Varma I vote for Bob's Big Boy! checkered overalls and everything. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Groups gets a make over. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/XISQkA/lOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't know 'Lifton' or what that refers to. My take on why people ascribe stuff to their teachers is they want to personalize their own inner transformation, and the teacher is a convenient...target? lol. I'm sure this is true in many relationships. I think when he adopted the name Maharishi, he was stacking the deck in favor of that belief. Again, so what? In this lifetime, many, many people have tried to sell me many, many things...it surely is not their fault, is it? But I respect your emphasis on personal responsibility. Who else could I possibly be responsible for except my children of course... Lifton is a thought-reform expert. His work had a profound impact on my perspective of my experiences in TM. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Something is new at Yahoo! Groups. Check out the enhanced email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/SISQkA/gOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
On Jun 15, 2006, at 1:34 PM, sparaig wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 14, 2006, at 7:43 PM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote:On Jun 14, 2006, at 3:20 PM, curtisdeltablues wrote: Good points. This one interested me the most: "rather by recognizing that mysticism is completely beyond science." It is beyond the scientific method in its focus and range, but I think Sam Harris would claim that when it talks about how the world "is" mysticism enters the field where logic does apply. You mentioned that Schroedinger is a physicist, a world class one at that from what I understand. But Physics is a field driven by math skills and I don't think that gives him a leg up on this kind of discussion over say...you or Chopra. It is all speculation about life. He leaves his credibility in his own field far behind on these topics. Because you have gained something from it, I will spend some more time thinking about it. Curtis you might enjoy the following brief talk with Ken Wilber where he answers the question "does quantum physics prove god?" where he rather elegantly explains that the quantum state is not unmanifest spirit/brahman/the tao/PC. Interesting talk. Not so interesting for the TM quantum mysticism, but rather embarrassing. I think by extension you could conclude that a mysticism based on Quantum physics is pretty bad mysticism... It's on page two: http://www.kenwilber.com/professional/media/index.htmlAnd how would he know? Uh, he's a physicist and a mystic? He said he studied QM in college for his grad degree in biology and "mystic" is a rather broad term. I wouldn't term him a mystic in the TM sense of being enlightened. Not when he talks about the need to be able to focus on objects for 5 minutes non-stop in order to progress to higher practices... Yeah, I agree, it wasn't until I could transcend for 10 minutes that I was able to progress to higher practices--really I had no choice at that point.If you wanted to call Ken anything it could be an Integral Dzogchen yogin.Have you read this? :http://www.shambhalasun.com/index.php?option=com_contenttask=viewid=2288 __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
Flippancy isn't neccesarily a sense of humour. It's more a state of egoic conceit. - Original Message - From: jim_flanegin To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 12:46 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field' --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Kirk" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: MMY=Shiva...You didn't know that? Who else could he be? Sudra Mahesh VarmaI vote for Bob's Big Boy! checkered overalls and everything. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Groups gets a make over. See the new email design.http://us.click.yahoo.com/XISQkA/lOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM~- To subscribe, send a message to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links* To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bush Administration Quietly Plans NAFTA Super Highway?
In a message dated 6/15/06 12:33:35 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I think it would be more wise to seek a psychiatrist and deal with your paranoia especially if you think the government is spying on yo You don't think the governent is spying on us? http://www.aclu.org/safefree/spying/index.html http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1281281.html http://www.aclu.org/safefree/spyfiles/index.html_.___ Where have you been? No Kirk I don't. What secrets do you hold that the government wants to waist their time tapping your phone?There is a big market out there that feeds the paranoid and the conspiracy theorists. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bush Administration Quietly Plans NAFTA Super Highway?
In a message dated 6/15/06 12:28:29 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It was great prior to the usurping of the presidency by the right. Now it is a dictatorship. Usurp?I recall the USSC settling the matter you speak of. Dictatorship? you don't think the country would be in *worse * condition if it were not for the congress and the judicial system. If Bush were a Dictator would he even need the congress or the courts?Wouldn't all the media have to be a clone of Fox news channel? See that Psychiatrist. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
[FairfieldLife] V for Vendetta 9-11 Vid
Well done. Grab it while you can before Warner issues a C D: http://youtube.com/watch?v=AJ7uFA8RwpQ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- See what's inside the new Yahoo! Groups email. http://us.click.yahoo.com/2pRQfA/bOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 15, 2006, at 1:34 PM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: On Jun 14, 2006, at 7:43 PM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: On Jun 14, 2006, at 3:20 PM, curtisdeltablues wrote: Good points. This one interested me the most: rather by recognizing that mysticism is completely beyond science. It is beyond the scientific method in its focus and range, but I think Sam Harris would claim that when it talks about how the world is mysticism enters the field where logic does apply. You mentioned that Schroedinger is a physicist, a world class one at that from what I understand. But Physics is a field driven by math skills and I don't think that gives him a leg up on this kind of discussion over say...you or Chopra. It is all speculation about life. He leaves his credibility in his own field far behind on these topics. Because you have gained something from it, I will spend some more time thinking about it. Curtis you might enjoy the following brief talk with Ken Wilber where he answers the question does quantum physics prove god? where he rather elegantly explains that the quantum state is not unmanifest spirit/brahman/the tao/PC. Interesting talk. Not so interesting for the TM quantum mysticism, but rather embarrassing. I think by extension you could conclude that a mysticism based on Quantum physics is pretty bad mysticism... It's on page two: http://www.kenwilber.com/professional/media/index.html And how would he know? Uh, he's a physicist and a mystic? He said he studied QM in college for his grad degree in biology and mystic is a rather broad term. I wouldn't term him a mystic in the TM sense of being enlightened. Not when he talks about the need to be able to focus on objects for 5 minutes non-stop in order to progress to higher practices... Yeah, I agree, it wasn't until I could transcend for 10 minutes that I was able to progress to higher practices--really I had no choice at that point. If you wanted to call Ken anything it could be an Integral Dzogchen yogin. Have you read this? : http://www.shambhalasun.com/index.php? option=com_contenttask=viewid=2288 That's not what he said in the talk you referenced earlier. He said the average adult can't focus on something for more than 50 seconds or so, but that in order to go to more advanced techniques, one needed to be able to focus on a single thing for at 5 minutes. He made no distinction between the average adult's concentrative ability and the adept's ability, save amount of time spent focusing. And it has been my experience that witnessing sleep is the most common form of witnessing outside of meditation, not the least common, as he reports. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Something is new at Yahoo! Groups. Check out the enhanced email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/SISQkA/gOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Death of the Internet Vid
Excellent video on the Net Neutrality Issue (shows what a moron/rakshasa Mr. ATT Ed Whitacre is). http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4778507074363208869 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- See what's inside the new Yahoo! Groups email. http://us.click.yahoo.com/2pRQfA/bOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
Peter wrote: --- jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So many people here considering themselves freethinking TMers who have gotten away from the cultish mentality, and yet, like a grain of sand in an oyster, people have made a pearl out of the utter mythical nonsense that MMY taught, which was based on lies, misappropriation of truth and others resources, and then they call him Shiva. Ha Ha. snip I know- sounds completely insane, huh? Oh well... MMY=Shiva...You didn't know that? Who else could he be? When you meditate on your ishta devata you become more like that entity and less like some ordinary human being. It is like channeling that energy. I guess in some broad definition you could call that an incarnation but in reality it can happen to hundreds if not thousands or millions of people at the same time. This effect I'm sure has been experienced by folks on this list. It is amusing when one moment I reading some articles on a Jyotish list with Indians discussing ishta devatas and then flip channels over to here and read western perspectives on it. The Indians should be invited here for some good laughs. :) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Something is new at Yahoo! Groups. Check out the enhanced email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/SISQkA/gOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bush Administration Quietly Plans NAFTA Super Highway?
See that Psychiatrist. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
[Quoting Schroedinger:] Let us see whether we cannot draw the correct, noncontradictory conclusion from the following two premises: (i) My body functions as a pure mechanism according to the Laws of Nature [determinism]. ME: This is about the physical body. (ii) Yet I know, by incontrovertible direct experience, that I am directing its motions, of which I foresee the effects, that may be fateful and all-important, in which case I feel and take full responsibility for them [free will]. ME: This is about the mind The only possible inference from these two facts is, I think, that I--I in the widest meaning of the word, that is to say, every conscious mind that has ever said I--am the person, if any, who controls the motion of the atoms according to the Laws of Nature. Me: Here is where he takes flight. It is a contrivance to claim to be a conclusion from the two premises. This conclusion has nothing to do with them, even inductively. It is far from the only possible inference. You must be referring to material you have read from him outside this quote? Is this from What is Life? I read it years ago. Your commentary was interesting. I don't have a well formed opinion about relating the rules governing atoms and our thoughts. It just seems like more proof by analogy than good science or good philosophy to me. I can't say that I believe they are separate, because I don't know enough about either side. But I can challenge that he knows that they do. He is putting together ideas that may not go together. This is Wilber's point right? I read your post many times and wrote quite a few responses before coming up with this lame contribution! I enjoyed it though. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: [Quoting Schroedinger:] Let us see whether we cannot draw the correct, noncontradictory conclusion from the following two premises: (i) My body functions as a pure mechanism according to the Laws of Nature [determinism]. (ii) Yet I know, by incontrovertible direct experience, that I am directing its motions, of which I foresee the effects, that may be fateful and all-important, in which case I feel and take full responsibility for them [free will]. The only possible inference from these two facts is, I think, that I--I in the widest meaning of the word, that is to say, every conscious mind that has ever said I--am the person, if any, who controls the motion of the atoms according to the Laws of Nature. I think I can put my finger on where I disagree with him. it is where he speaks on behalf of every conscious mind that has ever said 'I' and then jumps to controlling the motion of atoms. He should have said, controls the motions of our own bodies. The jump he is making is poetic but wrong. Just because we control our own bodies does not give us the right to claim controlling atoms. The atomic level is working on its own without the participation of the consciousness that emerges from the functioning of our brains which is driven by laws of nature at a completely different level. Am I missing something? I'm not sure. Let me take it point by point: First of all, he's saying that you, Curtis, are not controlling your own body, as far as science is concerned. Rather, it's the gunas, in TM-speak, that are doing it. That you, Curtis, think *you* are doing it is an illusion. You are, however, controlling the gunas from the transcendental perspective (Be without the three gunas...)--not you the localized body and mind of Curtis, but You the universal, unbounded, nonlocal Self of everyone. Second, he's not saying we (our small selves) have the sense of controlling only our bodies but of controlling our minds as well; but the statistico- deterministic laws as observed by science say that's also an illusion. But I'm not sure either of these affect your point. What you're saying, if I understand you, is that the control of our thoughts is an emergent property that doesn't follow the same laws as those that control atoms (actually the elementary particles that compose the atoms). This claim, however, is just about as grand, and as unsupported by science, as his. I don't think your problem with what he says is that he's making too big a leap; I think it's that you disagree with the premise he's assuming as the very basis for his argument. He's saying the control of thought *does* follow the same laws as those that control the atoms. You're saying control of thought is independent of the laws that control the atoms. That's a perfectly respectable philosophical position, but it's also essentially a mystical one in that science cannot observe or test it, any more than it can observe or test his. At least, if I'm
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Flippancy isn't neccesarily a sense of humour. It's more a state of egoic conceit. OK- but I was being seriously absurd- there's a place for that I thought... - Original Message - From: jim_flanegin To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 12:46 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field' --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Kirk kirk_bernhardt@ wrote: MMY=Shiva...You didn't know that? Who else could he be? Sudra Mahesh Varma I vote for Bob's Big Boy! checkered overalls and everything. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- See what's inside the new Yahoo! Groups email. http://us.click.yahoo.com/2pRQfA/bOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: snip Also, I'm not at all sure what Wilber says in this vein contradicts Hagelin. I think their approaches come from very different angles and that they aren't really talking about the same thing. He mentions the so-called experts from what the Bleep Do We Know, which presents Hagelin as a top Quantum Physicist. I'd be greatly surprised if he did NOT mean to denounce Hagelin's talk in the movie. I didn't suggest he didn't mean to denounce it. Yeah, anyone that listens to Ken WIlber about anything shows bad mysticism. (You meant Hagelin here, not Wilber, right?) I meant Wilber. Oh, I thought you were being sarcastic, sorry. snip How much have you read of what he's written? I was going by the talk, which was represented as showing that anyone who talks about QM and mysticism is doing bad mysticism. I believe that was Vaj's (mis)representation. I wouldn't evaluate Wilber either by that talk or by Vaj's opinion of it. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Check out the new improvements in Yahoo! Groups email. http://us.click.yahoo.com/6pRQfA/fOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
On Jun 15, 2006, at 3:31 PM, sparaig wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 15, 2006, at 1:34 PM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote:On Jun 14, 2006, at 7:43 PM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: On Jun 14, 2006, at 3:20 PM, curtisdeltablues wrote:Good points. This one interested me the most: "rather by recognizing that mysticism is completely beyond science." It is beyond the scientific method in its focus and range, but I think Sam Harris would claim that when it talks about how the world "is" mysticism enters the field where logic does apply. You mentioned that Schroedinger is a physicist, a world class one at that from what I understand. But Physics is a field driven by math skills and I don't think that gives him a leg up on this kind of discussion over say...you or Chopra. It is all speculation about life. He leaves his credibility in his own field far behind on these topics. Because you have gained something from it, I will spend some more time thinking about it.Curtis you might enjoy the following brief talk with Ken Wilber where he answers the question "does quantum physics prove god?" where he rather elegantly explains that the quantum state is not unmanifest spirit/brahman/the tao/PC. Interesting talk. Not so interesting for the TM quantum mysticism, but rather embarrassing. I think by extension you could conclude that a mysticism based on Quantum physics is pretty bad mysticism... It's on page two: http://www.kenwilber.com/professional/media/index.html And how would he know? Uh, he's a physicist and a mystic?He said he studied QM in college for his grad degree in biology and "mystic" is a rather broad term. I wouldn't term him a mystic in the TM sense of being enlightened. Not when he talks about the need to be able to focus on objects for 5 minutes non-stop in order to progress to higher practices... Yeah, I agree, it wasn't until I could transcend for 10 minutes that I was able to progress to higher practices--really I had no choice at that point. If you wanted to call Ken anything it could be an Integral Dzogchen yogin. Have you read this? : http://www.shambhalasun.com/index.php? option=com_contenttask=viewid=2288 That's not what he said in the talk you referenced earlier. He said the average adult can't focus on something for more than 50 seconds or so, but that in order to go to more advanced techniques, one needed to be able to focus on a single thing for at 5 minutes.Last I checked 10 minutes was still longer than 5. I didn't notice it personally till ten minutes, but he may have something with the five--or it's an individual thing. The important thing is to understand the essence of what he's saying. He made no distinction between the average adult's concentrative ability and the adept's ability, save amount of time spent focusing.Well that didn't seem to be the point he was making, so I doubt that's important. And it has been my experience that witnessing sleep is the most common form of witnessing outside of meditation, not the least common, as he reports. I didn't remember him saying that, but it's been a while. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [Quoting Schroedinger:] Let us see whether we cannot draw the correct, noncontradictory conclusion from the following two premises: (i) My body functions as a pure mechanism according to the Laws of Nature [determinism]. ME: This is about the physical body. (ii) Yet I know, by incontrovertible direct experience, that I am directing its motions, of which I foresee the effects, that may be fateful and all-important, in which case I feel and take full responsibility for them [free will]. ME: This is about the mind I'm not sure he's making the distinction the same way you are. (Remember this is a translation from the German, so it's possible there are nuances that got lost.) As I read him, he's including the functioning of the brain in body--synapses, chemicals, electrical currents, etc. The only possible inference from these two facts is, I think, that I--I in the widest meaning of the word, that is to say, every conscious mind that has ever said I--am the person, if any, who controls the motion of the atoms according to the Laws of Nature. Me: Here is where he takes flight. It is a contrivance to claim to be a conclusion from the two premises. Again, he does call it an inference rather than a conclusion. This conclusion has nothing to do with them, even inductively. I'm honestly still not sure why you say that. I can see why you might *disagree* with it, but not why you can't see how he gets to that inference from that contradiction. It *does* resolve the contradiction if you accept as a possibility the premise that each human consciousness is an individualization of a single Universal Consciousness. It is far from the only possible inference. You must be referring to material you have read from him outside this quote? Nope. It's from the essay (this'll turn you off real good!) The 'I' That Is God. Is this from What is Life? I read it years ago. Your commentary was interesting. I don't have a well formed opinion about relating the rules governing atoms and our thoughts. It just seems like more proof by analogy than good science or good philosophy to me. I can't say that I believe they are separate, because I don't know enough about either side. But I can challenge that he knows that they do. He is putting together ideas that may not go together. This is Wilber's point right? I read your post many times and wrote quite a few responses before coming up with this lame contribution! I enjoyed it though. Likewise. A thought-provoking discussion. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- See what's inside the new Yahoo! Groups email. http://us.click.yahoo.com/2pRQfA/bOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
OK- but I was being seriously absurd- there's a place for that I thought...---Oh, yes, that's okay then. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
Re: [FairfieldLife] Enlightenment the hard way
Interesting article. He had a very hard pointing out experience. How lucky one is if they don't have to go through all that. Watching Katrina was very much like this for us. Especially for my wife - a native of NOLA. I would very much say that this person is making a statement beyond what he even knows, about the corp of the world, and the sort of pointing out that the whole world will have to go through before it will recognize the ground of being. Because people have not sought this pointing out the effortless way, they will have it thrust upon them. Why, because we yogis are sick and tired of always fighting with dualists for some breathing space. And living in caves and woods. It's time yogis become able to move about the streets without being locked up like dogs in a kennel. This man's message to this paranoic (as MM calls me) is that the peaks and troughs of life have not managed to wake up the ground of being for all, has not given humanity its awareness of common union with innate divinity. Where peaceful means of awakening are not enough, wrathful means will be used. I love sounding prophetic. May it all not be so. May I be wrong all the time. How wonderful that would be! - Original Message - From: Ron F To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 3:09 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Enlightenment the hard way http://www.thomhartmann.com/hutchison.shtmlAn Interview with Michael HutchisonWith extraordinary lessons for us allThis is from an interview first published in 2002 in AVS (Audio/Visual Stimulation) magazine, reprinted with the permission of the publisher and of Michael Hutchison, an old and dear friend of Thoms. Since then, an edited version of this interview has been published in the new and updated edition of Michael's Book of Floating: Exploring the Private Sea" book: __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
[FairfieldLife] Re: New file uploaded to FairfieldLife
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 6/14/06 4:14 PM, bob_brigante at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think it's clear that by raising the price of instruction, MMY wants the rate of initiations to be low (to avoid creating fear and havoc on an ignorant planet: http://geocities.com/bbrigante/retards.html#light ). TM teachers who go off on their own, lacking the resources of the TMO, could not possibly teach enough people to derail this strategy of slow growth of consciousness on the earth, so MMY said that he did not mind if TM teachers went off on their own, teaching TM under some other name. The TMO is not suing TM teachers who are off on their own, as long as they do not infringe on the TM trademark (several TM teachers are now teaching what they are calling the Transcendental Stress Management Program). I¹m pretty sure that more people are being taught TM these days by independent teachers than by official ones. *** That's unlikely, but even if true, we're still not talking about a large number of initiations. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- See what's inside the new Yahoo! Groups email. http://us.click.yahoo.com/2pRQfA/bOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: New file uploaded to FairfieldLife
***That's unlikely, but even if true, we're still not talking about a large number of initiations.---At some point initiations will be considered less important than continuations. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- See what's inside the new Yahoo! Groups email.http://us.click.yahoo.com/2pRQfA/bOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM~- To subscribe, send a message to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links* To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK- but I was being seriously absurd- there's a place for that I thought... ---Oh, yes, that's okay then. Just to clarify, Peter had asked who else Maharishi could be? I thought that the way he asked the question implied that Maharishi could be anybody at all. So you suggested one possibility, and I suggested another. I specifically chose an identity [Bob's Big Boy] that was very far away from any convention that Maharishi represents; Western, associated with an omnivorous diet, fictional, not associated with particularly deep knowledge, not associated with spirituality, etc. My intent was such that the reader might sense the vast gulf between your answer and mine, and infer what Peter's question implied, that Maharishi could be anyone at all. So you see, I was being seriously absurd. Maybe it worked, and maybe it didn't. Just a little bit of fun. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Check out the new improvements in Yahoo! Groups email. http://us.click.yahoo.com/6pRQfA/fOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: [Quoting Schroedinger:] Let us see whether we cannot draw the correct, noncontradictory conclusion from the following two premises: (i) My body functions as a pure mechanism according to the Laws of Nature [determinism]. ME: This is about the physical body. (ii) Yet I know, by incontrovertible direct experience, that I am directing its motions, of which I foresee the effects, that may be fateful and all-important, in which case I feel and take full responsibility for them [free will]. ME: This is about the mind I'm not sure he's making the distinction the same way you are. (Remember this is a translation from the German, so it's possible there are nuances that got lost.) As I read him, he's including the functioning of the brain in body--synapses, chemicals, electrical currents, etc. ME: I definitely agree with you here. All that stuff is on the body side. The only possible inference from these two facts is, I think, that I--I in the widest meaning of the word, that is to say, every conscious mind that has ever said I--am the person, if any, who controls the motion of the atoms according to the Laws of Nature. Me: Here is where he takes flight. It is a contrivance to claim to be a conclusion from the two premises. Again, he does call it an inference rather than a conclusion. Me: OK , he warned me. This conclusion has nothing to do with them, even inductively. I'm honestly still not sure why you say that. I can see why you might *disagree* with it, but not why you can't see how he gets to that inference from that contradiction. It *does* resolve the contradiction if you accept as a possibility the premise that each human consciousness is an individualization of a single Universal Consciousness. Me: I feel a little thick but I don't see it. He might as well say, then magic happens. I don't even understand why he thinks the two separate parts of our existence are contradictory. They are just on different levels and don't need to be resolved. But if they did, I don't see how imagining a universal consciousness helps. Unless he just believes that to be so and the whole set up was just a ruse for him to pull this rabbit out of his hat. Perhaps you can help me understand how this resolves the differences better. In what way? Isn't he just claiming that the mind is not really experiencing free will but the determinism of the group I? Is that how you see it? I think our free will is actually constrained by habits, past experiences, and lots of other psychological factors. Acting freely in a new direction from my past takes a lot of effort and force of will. My greatest happiness comes from fighting those deterministic tendencies and doing something new. It is something I practice. The fact that my body is determined by laws of nature makes perfect sense. I don't want to think about breathing or digesting, and I accept that it has rule I must follow to survive. I have learned that I have to impose my will over my body with exercise because inertia is easy to fall into physically. It is often an act of will to start to exercise, even though I enjoy it while I am doing it and afterwards. What's with that? But I have learned that it wont happen if I don't will it to happen. This ramble is just me trying to think about where the contradiction is that needs resolving. I am not there yet. It is far from the only possible inference. You must be referring to material you have read from him outside this quote? Nope. It's from the essay (this'll turn you off real good!) The 'I' That Is God. Me: I would be open to reading it. I have learned not to assume that I know what a person means when they use the word God. Sometimes it just means life using more poetic language and that is fine with me. he probably has an interesting version of this concept. High five for being thought provoking! Is this from What is Life? I read it years ago. Your commentary was interesting. I don't have a well formed opinion about relating the rules governing atoms and our thoughts. It just seems like more proof by analogy than good science or good philosophy to me. I can't say that I believe they are separate, because I don't know enough about either side. But I can challenge that he knows that they do. He is putting together ideas that may not go together. This is Wilber's point right? I read your post many times and wrote quite a few responses before coming up with this lame contribution! I enjoyed it though. Likewise. A thought-provoking discussion. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- See what's inside the new Yahoo! Groups email.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: New file uploaded to FairfieldLife
On Jun 15, 2006, at 5:28 PM, bob_brigante wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 6/14/06 4:14 PM, bob_brigante at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think it's clear that by raising the price of instruction, MMY wants the rate of initiations to be low (to avoid creating "fear and havoc" on an ignorant planet: http://geocities.com/bbrigante/retards.html#light ). TM teachers who go off on their own, lacking the resources of the TMO, could not possibly teach enough people to derail this strategy of slow growth of consciousness on the earth, so MMY said that he did not mind if TM teachers went off on their own, teaching TM under some other name. The TMO is not suing TM teachers who are off on their own, as long as they do not infringe on the TM trademark (several TM teachers are now teaching what they are calling the "Transcendental Stress Management Program").I¹m pretty sure that more people are being taught TM these days by independent teachers than by official ones.*** That's unlikely, but even if true, we're still not talking about a large number of initiations. Unless of course you consider SSRS, a TM lineage holder, *independent*, then independent TM line inits. are way, way up.Anyone know the stats on how many SSRS and his teachers are initiating? It's probably staggering, because I get the impression he is initiating a lot in India in addition to the rest of the world.Is it possible *SSRS is who M. was referring to in his press conference comments?* Maybe it was a loving nod to one of his dearest students, SSRS? __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
So you see, I was being seriously absurd. Maybe it worked, and maybe it didn't. Just a little bit of fun. ---I think we both missed the mark and that he meant that everybody is Shiva. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
On Jun 15, 2006, at 3:31 PM, sparaig wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 15, 2006, at 1:34 PM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: On Jun 14, 2006, at 7:43 PM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: On Jun 14, 2006, at 3:20 PM, curtisdeltablues wrote: Good points. This one interested me the most:"rather by recognizing that mysticism is completelybeyond science."It is beyond the scientific method in its focus and range, but Ithink Sam Harris would claim that when it talks about how theworld "is" mysticism enters the field where logic does apply. Youmentioned that Schroedinger is a physicist, a world class one atthat from what I understand. But Physics is a field driven by mathskills and I don't think that gives him a leg up on this kind ofdiscussion over say...you or Chopra. It is all speculation aboutlife. He leaves his credibility in his own field far behind on thesetopics. Because you have gained something from it, I will spendsome more time thinking about it. Curtis you might enjoy the following brief talk with Ken Wilber wherehe answers the question "does quantum physics prove god?" where herather elegantly explains that the quantum state is not unmanifestspirit/brahman/the tao/PC. Interesting talk. Not so interesting forthe TM quantum mysticism, but rather embarrassing. I think byextension you could conclude that a mysticism based on Quantumphysics is pretty bad mysticism...It's on page two:http://www.kenwilber.com/professional/media/index.html And how would he know? Uh, he's a physicist and a mystic? He said he studied QM in college for his grad degree in biology and "mystic" is a ratherbroad term. I wouldn't term him a mystic in the TM sense of being enlightened. Not whenhe talks about the need to be able to focus on objects for 5 minutes non-stop in order toprogress to higher practices... Yeah, I agree, it wasn't until I could transcend for 10 minutes that I was able to progress to higher practices--really I had no choice at that point.If you wanted to call Ken anything it could be an Integral Dzogchen yogin.Have you read this? :http://www.shambhalasun.com/index.php? option=com_contenttask=viewid=2288 That's not what he said in the talk you referenced earlier. He said the average adult can't focus on something for more than 50 seconds or so, but that in order to go to more advanced techniques, one needed to be able to focus on a single thing for at 5 minutes.Last I checked 10 minutes was still longer than 5. I didn't notice it personally till ten minutes, but he may have something with the five--or it's an individual thing. The important thing is to understand the essence of what he's saying. He made no distinction between the average adult's concentrative ability and the adept's ability, save amount of time spent focusing.Well that didn't seem to be the point he was making, so I doubt that's important.And it has been my experience that witnessing sleep is the most common form of witnessing outside of meditation, not the least common, as he reports. I didn't remember him saying that, but it's been a while. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
On Jun 15, 2006, at 9:28 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: I can see how a magical display would make more sense, esp. if inner qualities were lacking. It makes sense if you weren't there. If you were there, it seems a lot like someone trying to cling to his preconceptions. :-) In this case what it is IMO is someone with a large amount of experience--an expert--sharing what this type of thing usually means. It's happened before, it will happen again. Since it violates a lot of Buddhist ethics, it kinda rules out the guy being some great reincarnation. But that's obvious also based on his actions, which were destructive to sentient beings.You also can learn a lot from how people reacted to these incidents, i.e. the old GF you mentioned: confusion, anger, etc: destructive emotions. Not a good sign.I also remember the effect he had on other practitioners--esp. his students--they were legendary (to put it very nicely).As I rememebr, in dharma circles, there was some mention that either he or a student of his made the claim he was a reincarnation of a Tibetan master and that never panned out. I cannot remember if it was investigated, was there ever an official letter issued (i.e. from the office of HHDL)? __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
[FairfieldLife] Re: New file uploaded to FairfieldLife
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer fairfieldlife@ wrote: on 6/14/06 4:14 PM, bob_brigante at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think it's clear that by raising the price of instruction, MMY wants the rate of initiations to be low (to avoid creating fear and havoc on an ignorant planet: http://geocities.com/bbrigante/retards.html#light ). TM teachers who go off on their own, lacking the resources of the TMO, could not possibly teach enough people to derail this strategy of slow growth of consciousness on the earth, so MMY said that he did not mind if TM teachers went off on their own, teaching TM under some other name. The TMO is not suing TM teachers who are off on their own, as long as they do not infringe on the TM trademark (several TM teachers are now teaching what they are calling the Transcendental Stress Management Program). I¹m pretty sure that more people are being taught TM these days by independent teachers than by official ones. *** That's unlikely, but even if true, we're still not talking about a large number of initiations. The official focus of the TMO, according to Denise, is on instituional initiations: in schools and the like. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Great things are happening at Yahoo! Groups. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/iDk17A/hOaOAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: [...] I was going by the talk, which was represented as showing that anyone who talks about QM and mysticism is doing bad mysticism. I believe that was Vaj's (mis)representation. I wouldn't evaluate Wilber either by that talk or by Vaj's opinion of it. Well, I CAN evaluate what Wiber said. It wasn't terribly coherent, IMHO, and in fact, Vaj's interpretation of what Wilber said seems quite accurate. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Great things are happening at Yahoo! Groups. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/iDk17A/hOaOAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Kirk kirk_bernhardt@ wrote: OK- but I was being seriously absurd- there's a place for that I thought... ---Oh, yes, that's okay then. Just to clarify, Peter had asked who else Maharishi could be? I thought that the way he asked the question implied that Maharishi could be anybody at all. So you suggested one possibility, and I suggested another. I specifically chose an identity [Bob's Big Boy] that was very far away from any convention that Maharishi represents; Western, associated with an omnivorous diet, fictional, not associated with particularly deep knowledge, not associated with spirituality, etc. My intent was such that the reader might sense the vast gulf between your answer and mine, and infer what Peter's question implied, that Maharishi could be anyone at all. So you see, I was being seriously absurd. Maybe it worked, and maybe it didn't. Just a little bit of fun. I got your sense of whimsy that MMY could be anyone. Besides, Big Boy is a reasonably nice icon to emulate, compared to many you could have chosen. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Check out the new improvements in Yahoo! Groups email. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lik1AB/fOaOAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Kirk kirk_bernhardt@ wrote: OK- but I was being seriously absurd- there's a place for that I thought... ---Oh, yes, that's okay then. Just to clarify, Peter had asked who else Maharishi could be? I thought that the way he asked the question implied that Maharishi could be anybody at all. So you suggested one possibility, and I suggested another. I specifically chose an identity [Bob's Big Boy] that was very far away from any convention that Maharishi represents; Western, associated with an omnivorous diet, fictional, not associated with particularly deep knowledge, not associated with spirituality, etc. My intent was such that the reader might sense the vast gulf between your answer and mine, and infer what Peter's question implied, that Maharishi could be anyone at all. So you see, I was being seriously absurd. Maybe it worked, and maybe it didn't. Just a little bit of fun. I got your sense of whimsy that MMY could be anyone. Besides, Big Boy is a reasonably nice icon to emulate, compared to many you could have chosen. Glad you got it! ...I used to like the restaurants Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- See what's inside the new Yahoo! Groups email. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Hik1AB/bOaOAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: [...] I was going by the talk, which was represented as showing that anyone who talks about QM and mysticism is doing bad mysticism. I believe that was Vaj's (mis)representation. I wouldn't evaluate Wilber either by that talk or by Vaj's opinion of it. Well, I CAN evaluate what Wiber said. It wasn't terribly coherent, IMHO, and in fact, Vaj's interpretation of what Wilber said seems quite accurate. Jeez, Lawson, I didn't say you couldn't, I said *I wouldn't*. I *agree* with you about the coherence of that talk. That's why I wouldn't recommend that talk as something by which to evaluate Wilber as a thinker. I don't blame you for thinking he's not so swift if that's all you have to go by. I'm just suggesting that there's a lot more to his thinking, a lot more *coherence* to his thinking, than is evident from that talk. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Something is new at Yahoo! Groups. Check out the enhanced email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/jDk17A/gOaOAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] What are the most significant inventions that have come from Fairfield?
What are the most significant inventions that have come from Fairfield? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Check out the new improvements in Yahoo! Groups email. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lik1AB/fOaOAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
On Jun 15, 2006, at 7:23 PM, sparaig wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" jstein@ wrote: [...] I was going by the talk, which was represented as showing that anyone who talks about QM and mysticism is doing bad mysticism. I believe that was Vaj's (mis)representation. I wouldn't evaluate Wilber either by that talk or by Vaj's opinion of it. Well, I CAN evaluate what Wiber said. It wasn't terribly coherent, IMHO, and in fact, Vaj's interpretation of what Wilber said seems quite accurate. Did you watch any of the three part lecture I posted a while back on "Ethics and Enlightenment"? I'd also posted many other things--you've never watched any of them? __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: [Quoting Schroedinger:] Let us see whether we cannot draw the correct, noncontradictory conclusion from the following two premises: (i) My body functions as a pure mechanism according to the Laws of Nature [determinism]. ME: This is about the physical body. (ii) Yet I know, by incontrovertible direct experience, that I am directing its motions, of which I foresee the effects, that may be fateful and all-important, in which case I feel and take full responsibility for them [free will]. ME: This is about the mind I'm not sure he's making the distinction the same way you are. (Remember this is a translation from the German, so it's possible there are nuances that got lost.) As I read him, he's including the functioning of the brain in body--synapses, chemicals, electrical currents, etc. ME: I definitely agree with you here. All that stuff is on the body side. The only possible inference from these two facts is, I think, that I--I in the widest meaning of the word, that is to say, every conscious mind that has ever said I--am the person, if any, who controls the motion of the atoms according to the Laws of Nature. Me: Here is where he takes flight. It is a contrivance to claim to be a conclusion from the two premises. Again, he does call it an inference rather than a conclusion. Me: OK , he warned me. This conclusion has nothing to do with them, even inductively. I'm honestly still not sure why you say that. I can see why you might *disagree* with it, but not why you can't see how he gets to that inference from that contradiction. It *does* resolve the contradiction if you accept as a possibility the premise that each human consciousness is an individualization of a single Universal Consciousness. Me: I feel a little thick but I don't see it. And I'm feeling a little thick because I'm not seeing what you find objectionable! He might as well say, then magic happens. I don't even understand why he thinks the two separate parts of our existence are contradictory. They are just on different levels and don't need to be resolved. But that's your speculation, not scientific fact. But if they did, I don't see how imagining a universal consciousness helps. Unless he just believes that to be so and the whole set up was just a ruse for him to pull this rabbit out of his hat. Perhaps you can help me understand how this resolves the differences better. In what way? Isn't he just claiming that the mind is not really experiencing free will but the determinism of the group I? Is that how you see it? It's experiencing the *free will* of the group 'I' and interpreting it as its own free will. I think our free will is actually constrained by habits, past experiences, and lots of other psychological factors. Sure it is, but as you go on to say, to some extent, at least, it appears to us that we can overcome those constraints. So the fact that there are some constraints doesn't go counter to his thesis. Acting freely in a new direction from my past takes a lot of effort and force of will. My greatest happiness comes from fighting those deterministic tendencies and doing something new. It is something I practice. The fact that my body is determined by laws of nature makes perfect sense. I don't want to think about breathing or digesting, and I accept that it has rule I must follow to survive. I have learned that I have to impose my will over my body with exercise because inertia is easy to fall into physically. It is often an act of will to start to exercise, even though I enjoy it while I am doing it and afterwards. What's with that? But I have learned that it wont happen if I don't will it to happen. This ramble is just me trying to think about where the contradiction is that needs resolving. I am not there yet. The contradiction is that according to science, your constraints, your sense of exercising an act of will to overcome them, and your enjoyment of all that are all *determined*, because the behavior of the elementary particles that make your mind, as well as your body, function operates via mathematically predictable statistical probabilities; there are no surprises. Theoretically, if we could compute the billions of bits of behavior of those gazillions of elementary particles, we could predict precisely the chances of your choosing to exercise versus choosing to watch football on TV. There doesn't seem to be a whole lot of clinical evidence, as it happens, for free will, whereas there's quite a bit *against* it. I was just reading an article in the Times today
[FairfieldLife] Ethics Enlightenment (was, Clarifying...
http://www.tinyurl.com/cmay6 __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ethics Enlightenment (was, Clarifying...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.tinyurl.com/cmay6 Already I'm disagreeing with him. Doing/having dualistic attitudes and behavior have nothing to do with enlightenment. Likewise, maximal activity (of whatever kind) in the relative world has EVERYTHING to do with enlightenment, as long as you're watering the root or dieing the cloth( or however you want to describe meditation) on a regular basis. The only advantage that ethical behavior in the TM model is that its generally less stressful to yourself to be ethcial. Now, that's not to say that one shouldn't behave ethically for its own sake, just that ethical behavior isn't somehow better for enlightenment than non-ethical behavior, simply because its ethical. He's a very intellectual guy for a non-dualist... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Great things are happening at Yahoo! Groups. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/iDk17A/hOaOAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ethics Enlightenment (was, Clarifying...
On Jun 15, 2006, at 10:10 PM, sparaig wrote:Already I'm disagreeing with him. Doing/having dualistic attitudes and behavior have nothing to do with enlightenment. Interesting theory. So do think Patanjali lied in the Yoga sutras? __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
[FairfieldLife] KW on new physics and mysticism
from a footnote (!) in Sex, Ecology, Spirituality Nowhere are the catastrophes of taking monological sciences and trying to make them into a complete "new paradigm" more obvious than in the "new physics and mysticism" writers and theorists, whose names are simply too legend to begin even a short list. When reductionists have a spiritual experience (not generally dealt with in physics textbooks), it usually acts as an incitement to commit philosophy, and the result is not for the faint-hearted.However wonderfully well intentioned, most of these theories—which play on the theme that the "new physics" (quantum and relativistic) supports/suggests/proves a mystically unified worldview—most of these theories are totally crippled by trying to simply extend a flatland monological paradigm into dialogical and translogical domains (more of the flatland "bigger portions of bad food" approach). They generally take certain mathematical formalisms (especially the Schroedinger wave equation and its collapse upon measurement) and give them a very wide interpretation (despite the fact that physicists themselves are sharply divided over how to interpret the formalisms), and they then wed this very loose and generous interpretation with their often equally loose interpretation of mystical spirituality, and the result is supposed to be something like, the new physics supports or even proves a mystical worldview. (Physics and mysticism are pronounced cousins, even though we all know what happens when cousins marry.)This inbred marriage, of course, is promptly called "the new paradigm," and absolutely everything else is swept aside and the New Era announced. Danah Zohar: "The idea of a 'quantum society' stems from a conviction that a whole new paradigm is emerging from our description of quantum reality and that this paradigm can be extended to change radically our perception of ourselves and the social world we want to live in. A wider appreciation of quantum reality can give us the conceptual foundations we need to bring about a positive revolution in society" (The quantum society).From formalisms describing the lowest, shallowest, least conscious, least-depthed holons in existence, "extended to a paradigm" that is supposed to cover dialogical, intersubjective, cultural exchange based on mutual understanding and mutual recognition: this is more than a quantum leap, it is a Guinness Book of Records leap of faith, and bad faith at that. Quantum formalisms cannot even account for the fundamentals of biology and autopoiesis, let alone economics, psychology, literature, poetry, morals and ethics, to name a vital few. But physicalists are so used to thinking that "most fundamental" means "most significant" that they believe all higher branches of knowledge must be grounded in least-depthed holons or not be grounded at all. Thus the constant tendency to "extend physics" (however imaginatively interpreted) directly to any and all domains. (...huge snip) __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ethics Enlightenment (was, Clarifying...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 15, 2006, at 10:10 PM, sparaig wrote: Already I'm disagreeing with him. Doing/having dualistic attitudes and behavior have nothing to do with enlightenment. Interesting theory. So do think Patanjali lied in the Yoga sutras? As Judy likes to point out, description vs prescription. Besides, keeping to the ethics of y our own society is less stressful, in general, than otherwise. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Check out the new improvements in Yahoo! Groups email. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lik1AB/fOaOAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: KW on new physics and mysticism
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: from a footnote (!) in Sex, Ecology, Spirituality Nowhere are the catastrophes of taking monological sciences and trying to make them into a complete new paradigm more obvious than in the new physics and mysticism writers and theorists, whose names are simply too legend to begin even a short list. When reductionists have a spiritual experience (not generally dealt with in physics textbooks), it usually acts as an incitement to commit philosophy, and the result is not for the faint-hearted. However wonderfully well intentioned, most of these theorieswhich play on the theme that the new physics (quantum and relativistic) supports/suggests/proves a mystically unified worldviewmost of these theories are totally crippled by trying to simply extend a flatland monological paradigm into dialogical and translogical domains (more of the flatland bigger portions of bad food approach). They generally take certain mathematical formalisms (especially the Schroedinger wave equation and its collapse upon measurement) and give them a very wide interpretation (despite the fact that physicists themselves are sharply divided over how to interpret the formalisms), and they then wed this very loose and generous interpretation with their often equally loose interpretation of mystical spirituality, and the result is supposed to be something like, the new physics supports or even proves a mystical worldview. (Physics and mysticism are pronounced cousins, even though we all know what happens when cousins marry.)This inbred marriage, of course, is promptly called the new paradigm, and absolutely everything else is swept aside and the New Era announced. Danah Zohar: The idea of a 'quantum society' stems from a conviction that a whole new paradigm is emerging from our description of quantum reality and that this paradigm can be extended to change radically our perception of ourselves and the social world we want to live in. A wider appreciation of quantum reality can give us the conceptual foundations we need to bring about a positive revolution in society (The quantum society).From formalisms describing the lowest, shallowest, least conscious, least-depthed holons in existence, extended to a paradigm that is supposed to cover dialogical, intersubjective, cultural exchange based on mutual understanding and mutual recognition: this is more than a quantum leap, it is a Guinness Book of Records leap of faith, and bad faith at that. Quantum formalisms cannot even account for the fundamentals of biology and autopoiesis, let alone economics, psychology, literature, poetry, morals and ethics, to name a vital few. But physicalists are so used to thinking that most fundamental means most significant that they believe all higher branches of knowledge must be grounded in least-depthed holons or not be grounded at all. Thus the constant tendency to extend physics (however imaginatively interpreted) directly to any and all domains. (...huge snip) So, does he ever name names? What's his take on John Hagelin? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Great things are happening at Yahoo! Groups. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/iDk17A/hOaOAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
