[FairfieldLife] Re: and European PIGS

[steve.brennon]

Rich?  Yes.  I own Tine and Eternity. But I don't have any money honey.
I don't want it. Just enough to to eat that is all. They can stuff their
money right up their fat ugly arse until they choke on it. I am a Mystic
or Miss-Tick.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu  wrote:
>
> Ask EmptyBill, he's the one that posted that not me.  No I don't think
> Europeans are pigs but I think that many of the rich are.  Are you
also
> rich?  ;-)

[FairfieldLife] Re: Sam Harris and Michael Shermer debate Deepak and Jean Houston

[tartbrain]

Evolution is such a powerful mechanism and framework that explains incredible 
complexity through trial an error, through adaptation. I speculate (worth a 
spatoon contents of value) that something could plausible unfolded on the 
physical, geological, and cosmological level -- awesome mind bending universe 
all on its own. 

Think the fact that we all descend from one black mother in Africa. Out of like 
10 million of mothers whose offspring did not make it for the long haul. 
Totally opposite from a Creator creating the one perfect Mother. The former is 
so much more awesome and mind bending beautiful than some slick god creator 
figure. 
 
(or maybe a totally ganja smoking teen Shiva said "dude, look what happens when 
is kick start this evolution thing. Its like infinite fractals. It is so 
awesome man." and he kicked back, and enjoyed the view for the next 1,000,000 
yugas.)   




--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "lurkernomore20002000"  
wrote:
>
> 
> -- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB  wrote:
> > My idea of the universe is an enormous, eternal operating
> > system. It was never created, and it never ends, thus
> > there is no need to postulate a "creator." It just is.
> > I see no need to postulate an "intelligence" behind the
> > functioning of the operating system because *none is
> > necessary to describe its actions*. They would carry on
> > just as effectively *without* any intelligence behind
> > them. Thus, using Occam's Razor, why clutter up an
> > already-elegant system with some made-up "intelligence"
> > interfering with it and running it.
> 
> 
> This idea of an operating system.  Has there ever been an opeating
> system without someone, or "something" creating  it.  Or can it just
> spring up on its own?
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Sam Harris and Michael Shermer debate Deepak and Jean Houston

[lurkernomore20002000]

-- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB  wrote:
> My idea of the universe is an enormous, eternal operating
> system. It was never created, and it never ends, thus
> there is no need to postulate a "creator." It just is.
> I see no need to postulate an "intelligence" behind the
> functioning of the operating system because *none is
> necessary to describe its actions*. They would carry on
> just as effectively *without* any intelligence behind
> them. Thus, using Occam's Razor, why clutter up an
> already-elegant system with some made-up "intelligence"
> interfering with it and running it.


This idea of an operating system.  Has there ever been an opeating
system without someone, or "something" creating  it.  Or can it just
spring up on its own?

[FairfieldLife] 300 year oral traditions -- was Re: The History of Om/How about how to chant it?

[tartbrain]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain  wrote:
> >
> > Oral for 300 years. Similar discussion a week or ago on
> > Christianity. 
> > 
> > I was thinking of experiences in large corporations
> > (Dilbert type companies -- and I have seen few large
> > ones that are not Dilbert type companies at times, on
> > some levels). Even for three weeks, even with vast
> > oral, e-mail exchanges, stored documents of everything,
> > collaborate spreadsheets, word-processor, and project
> > management software, video conferencing, archives of
> > everything, people, some, but certainly most all
> > dynamic groups as a hole -- (weakest link and all),
> > cannot often keep straight in their heads agreements
> > and of decisions made, sequences and timelines
> > discussed and reviewed -- gaps  recollection or being
> > able to keep so much in the brain at one time, of
> > group memory and gaps of actual awareness, for example,
> > "What! You sent me an e-mail on that --if I had read
> > it would have saved us two days! Wow!" 
> > 
> > Ha! Trying to conceive of a corporation that could keep
> > detailed message straight in its head for 300 years is
> > the best laugh I have had in a while. Thanks.
> 
> I can't quite put my finger on it, but I strongly
> suspect there are so many elements of the two situations
> that are not at all parallel that the comparison doesn't
> work very well.


Me too actually. But the parallel still gets to me.

> 
> Maybe a better comparison would be with the attempt
> to govern the U.S. in accordance with the Constitution?
> 
> Or maybe the point is that institutions that have good
> self-correcting mechanisms for the internal slip-ups
> can carry on indefinitely, but those that don't, can't?
>
Perhaps. But I am still wondering.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Poll: Majority, ' Tax the Rich and preserve Medicare & Social Security '

[tartbrain]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "do.rflex"  wrote:
>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This new Quinnipiac University poll
>  ame=domesticNews>  shows the strongly populist--and traditionally
> Democratic--leanings of Americans when it comes to bread and butter
> issues.
> 
> The Quinnipiac University poll found that 60 percent of Americans among
> both major political parties think raising income taxes on households
> making more than $250,000 should be a main tenet of the government's
> efforts to tame the deficit.
> 

The problem is, from data I have seen, is it doesn't raise that much. 
Thw larger problem is the hugely increasing ratio of poorest 10% to richest 
10%. As I understand (corrections welcome) this ratio has skyrocketed  in the 
last 30 years. Democracy and commonweath is not possible at extreme levels.   

> More than 70 percent, including a majority of Republicans, say those
> making more than $1 million should pay more.

I am not a republican (and could not stomach ever being associated with  the 
party that has utterly whored itself out and disgraced itself (but there was 
one a time that  a middle of the road republican was like Obama today, and a 
liberal republican (I shit you not, they used to exist) was like many 
progressives today -- with perhaps more of an emphasis on  job creation and 
(regulated) market mechanisms. 
 
I think a steeply progressive tax starting at 1 million, adjusted for inflation 
would be better than taxing 250 k earners. In my view (and that isn't worth 
squat) those earning over a million are often the result of corrupt lobbying 
and govt manipulation so its actually fair to tax them heavily.   
 
The key transformational thing is to change values. Where status comes not from 
some insane decked out Lexus and 3 million dollar homes, but from what NGO you 
have supported, championed, and spent every last dime and breath you could on. 
Those people are heroes and I don't begrudge them if they live a comfortable 
life while doing , um, don't choke curtis, its only a popular saying "the Lords 
work". . 

If you want to raise money, eliminate the insane deduction of mortgage 
interest. Thats part of the bubble problem and syphons off trillions to a no 
productive things (a tricked out 200,000 kitchen is NOT a productive asset). 
And its elimination wold raise 100's of billions


> But 80 percent say raising taxes on those making less than that should
> not be part of the government's approach. Moreover, most oppose touching
> Medicare and Social Security - two long-term drivers of the budget
> deficit over the coming decades
> 
> Obama's 2011 budget proposal and most of his fellow Democrats favor
> eliminating tax breaks for individuals making more than $200,000 and for
> households making more than $250,000, which were enacted in 2001 and
> 2003.
> 
> Not surprisingly, many more Democrats than Republicans back hiking taxes
> on those making more, though 56 percent of Republicans did support
> raising taxes on those making more than $1 million, the poll found.
> 
> There was only a slim partisan divide, with only slightly fewer
> Republicans opposed to cutting the growth of the government health plan
> for the elderly, Medicare or Social Security, to help the deficit.
> 
> The American public, even Republicans, want basic economic fairness and
> recognize that taxing the people who make a lot of money is a helluva
> lot fairer than cutting Social Security and Medicare for the rest of us.
> It's the basic principle Democrats have operated on for decades.
> 
> If the deficit commission really wants to cut entitlements, perhaps they
> should consider the quasi-entitlement program defense contractors, which
> has been a pretty significant contributor to the bloated budget deficit
> in the past decade, as the Project on Defense Alternatives
>   has shown. That,
> combined with some well placed tax increases, should go a long way to
> putting the country back on a sustainable fiscal track.
> 
> Reuters via:
> http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2010/4/1/852478/-Q-Poll:-Tax-the-Rich!
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Sam Harris and Michael Shermer debate Deepak and Jean Houston

[lurkernomore20002000]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB  wrote:

> My idea of the universe is an enormous, eternal operating
> system. It was never created, and it never ends, thus
> there is no need to postulate a "creator." It just is.  A mystery
then.
> I see no need to postulate an "intelligence" behind the
> functioning of the operating system because *none is
> necessary to describe its actions*.  It seems to me that people have
been trying to make sense of this operating systems, and have been
fairly successful over time.  And the more they figure it out, the more
advances they make, at least on the material plane. They would carry on
> just as effectively *without* any intelligence behind
> them. Thus, using Occam's Razor, why clutter up an
> already-elegant system with some made-up "intelligence"
> interfering with it and running it.  Not sure one has to make anything
up.  One can look at the world around them, and postulate, that there
must be some intelligence at work, often with a lot predictability.   It
seems to me that an operating system has a lot of intelligence behind
it, and which designed it.  Other than that it can pretty much remain
behind the scenes.


> I suspect that the operating system is structured around
> an interplay between karma and the free will of sentient
> beings. Both are essential, and both are the very nature
> of the operating system. To postulate an "intelligence"
> "running things" is to disallow free will, and it seems
> obvious that free will exists. Sure seems like once you introduct
Karma, you introduce the notion of "rules", and "laws".  Not sure how
you can have karma without some real detailed cause and effect.

I do like that ideal of drawing bullsyes around arrows.  I'm going to
keep that in my repatroire.

Thanks

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self Supporting Ontological Identities - was Deepak Chopra failed etc

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"  
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain  wrote:

> > thats the Primary mistake of the Intellect
> 
> I found this phrase in the movement to be offensive.

Oh, come *on*. You don't have to agree with it, but
there's zero reason to be "offended" by it. It isn't
a *criticism*, for pete'e sake.

> Plus I don't believe my intellect is mistaken about
> the primacy of matter

That isn't the mistake of the intellect.

> I believe it is mistaken to believe in the primacy
> of consciousness.  (one that gets sorted out fast
> while under general anesthesia

If you're careful to not think about it too hard.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Deepak Chopra failed to prove existence of God to atheists

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB  wrote:
>
> Ah. I see my post worked exactly as intended.

How sad that he has to pretend he "intended" to
have me respond to that post. Anything to avoid
confronting his hypocrisy, I guess.

(Oh-oh, yes, he's the Great Pretender,
Adrift in a world of his own.
His need is such, he pretends too much...)

This is the fellow who insists over and over that
he DOESN'T GIVE A SHIT what anybody thinks of him.

(He seems to be what he's not, you see...)

Or hopes real hard that he does.

> THE CORRECTOR is out for the week.

Uh, Bar, sweetie, it's Friday. I was "out" for all
of about nine hours, not for "the week," sorry.

> She's so predictable.  :-)



*I'm* predictable??


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB  wrote:
> 
> > Why is it so impossible for you to deal with someone who
> > believes differently than you do without treating them
> > as an inferior who is "missing" something you are not?
>
> The more interesting question is why Barry imagines
> Buck does this while he, Barry, virtuously does not.
>
> Just a few of many examples from his exchange with Lurk:
>
> "I don't think you *do* see, however clear I was trying
> to be."
>
> "It's all an exercise in some human trying to feel less lost
> in a random universe by convincing himself that he
> "understands" something that cannot be understood or
> can 'explain' the unexplainable. It's ego, dude. Hubris.
> Ants trying to figure out the Space Shuttle."
>
> "If thought stops but awareness does not, that is 'best
> described' as 'thought stopping without awareness stopping,'
> NOT by 'I merged with the quantum field of all
> possibilities' or some other such guff. I am surprised you
> would even suggest such a thing."
>
> "Many of my experiences are more similar in their effects
> and in their subjective experience to the Harry Potter
> books than to quantum physics. Should I then refer to
> them using terminology from the Harry Potter books. That
> *IS* the case you seem to be making."
>
> "While I understand that some derive a sense of fun or
> play from trying to convince themselves that they
> 'understand' or can 'explain' such mysteries, I regard
> such claims as delusional, ego-bound, and dishonest if
> not preceded by a caveat emptor such as mine."

[FairfieldLife] 300 year oral traditions -- was Re: The History of Om/How about how to chant it?

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain  wrote:
>
> Oral for 300 years. Similar discussion a week or ago on
> Christianity. 
> 
> I was thinking of experiences in large corporations
> (Dilbert type companies -- and I have seen few large
> ones that are not Dilbert type companies at times, on
> some levels). Even for three weeks, even with vast
> oral, e-mail exchanges, stored documents of everything,
> collaborate spreadsheets, word-processor, and project
> management software, video conferencing, archives of
> everything, people, some, but certainly most all
> dynamic groups as a hole -- (weakest link and all),
> cannot often keep straight in their heads agreements
> and of decisions made, sequences and timelines
> discussed and reviewed -- gaps  recollection or being
> able to keep so much in the brain at one time, of
> group memory and gaps of actual awareness, for example,
> "What! You sent me an e-mail on that --if I had read
> it would have saved us two days! Wow!" 
> 
> Ha! Trying to conceive of a corporation that could keep
> detailed message straight in its head for 300 years is
> the best laugh I have had in a while. Thanks.

I can't quite put my finger on it, but I strongly
suspect there are so many elements of the two situations
that are not at all parallel that the comparison doesn't
work very well.

Maybe a better comparison would be with the attempt
to govern the U.S. in accordance with the Constitution?

Or maybe the point is that institutions that have good
self-correcting mechanisms for the internal slip-ups
can carry on indefinitely, but those that don't, can't?

[FairfieldLife] 20 Somethings Maybe Not so Dumb After All

[Bhairitu]

"They'd rather be poorer and have free time than have a lot of money." 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36152262/ns/business-washington_post/

[FairfieldLife] Finnish post to start [transmitting] digital [snail] mail trial

[It's just a ride]

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jTlosv9uqU7jQUMPogpOKouzppMA

By Laura Vinha (AFP) – 1 day ago

HELSINKI — Love letters, payslips and overdue bills will not be spared when
Finland's post starts opening mail and sending scanned copies to selected
recipients in a trial aimed at cutting costs and emissions.

Volunteers will receive an e-mail or a mobile phone text message when their
mail has been opened, scanned and sent as a PDF file to a secure digital
mailbox, to which only the recipient has access, a post official told AFP.

"This (secure digital mailbox) is totally different from e-mail. It is
comparable to web banking," said Tommi Tikka, development director at
state-owned Itella, which runs the Nordic country's postal system.

The "highly automated" conversion of letters into electronic documents would
be conducted in "special, secured premises" where staff are bound by strict
confidentiality obligations, Tikka said, insisting that the initiative was
not an April Fools joke.

Love letters and other personal messages would not be spared in the
experiment, which has generated lively online discussion in high-tech
Finland, home to top mobile phone maker Nokia.

"Itella is doing in Finland what the KGB did in its time in the Soviet Union
and the Stasi in East Germany. Itella is reading people's private mail," one
commentator using the name "Itella agentti", or "Itella agent", said on a
debate forum hosted by leading daily Helsingin Sanomat.

But Tikka insisted the service complied with correspondence secrecy laws and
everyone who had volunteered for the trial had signed an agreement with
Itella for their post to be opened and converted into an electronic format.

"Our workers do not read the mail. How could love letters be filtered out?"
said Tikka, adding Itella would not keep copies of letters.

"We want to find out what kind of content clients want to start receiving
electronically ... Are personal letters among those that are not wanted in a
digital form? We will find out," he said.

The size and bulk of envelopes would be analysed to filter out mail not
suited for scanning, and those obviously containing items such as bank cards
or voting ballots would not be opened, Tikka said.

So far, 126 households and 20 businesses in Anttila, an area of scattered
settlement in the southern town of Porvoo, had volunteered to join the
trial, which starts in the week of April 12 and runs until the end of the
year.

And those who long for the scent and feel of stationery need not despair:
once scanned, correspondence will be returned to its envelope and delivered
in the normal fashion.

But the postman will only call twice a week at the homes of participating
residents. Deliveries to mailboxes at a local store will be made three times
a week.

"This is purely a trial. We don't know yet whether, at the end of the year,
there will be aspects of this that could be applied more widely," Tikka
said.

The Technical Research Centre of Finland (VTT) is working with Itella to
evaluate the environmental impact of what Tikka called a "living lab
experiment".



A Montana rancher got in his pickup and drove to a neighboring ranch and
knocked at the door. A young boy, about 9, opened the door "Is your Dad
home?" the rancher asked.
"No sir, he isn't," the boy replied. "He went into town."
"Well," said the rancher, "Is your Mother here?"
"No sir, she's not here either. She went into town with Dad."
"How about your brother, Howard? Is he here?"
"No sir, He went with Mom and Dad."
The rancher stood there for a few minutes, shifting from one foot to the
other and mumbling to himself.

"Is there anything I can do for you?" the boy asked politely. "I know where
all the tools are, if you want to borrow one. Or maybe I could take a
message for Dad."
"Well," said the rancher uncomfortably, "I really wanted to talk to your
Dad. It's about your brother Howard getting my daughter, Suzie, pregnant."'
The boy considered for a moment. "You would have to talk to Pa about that",
he finally conceded. "If it helps you any, I know that Pa charges $500 for
the bull and $50 for the hog, but I really don't know how much he gets for
Howard."

[FairfieldLife] Post Count

[FFL PostCount]

Fairfield Life Post Counter
===
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End Date (UTC): Sat Apr 03 00:00:00 2010
481 messages as of (UTC) Fri Apr 02 23:32:36 2010

50 authfriend 
48 TurquoiseB 
41 tartbrain 
38 WillyTex 
33 Bhairitu 
27 emptybill 
27 curtisdeltablues 
25 Vaj 
22 lurkernomore20002000 
20 "do.rflex" 
17 nablusoss1008 
15 Rick Archer 
12 Mike Dixon 
12 BillyG 
11 cardemaister 
 8 PaliGap 
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 6 mainstream20016 
 6 ditzyklanmail 
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 2 Yifu Xero 
 2 Alex Stanley 
 2 "steve.brennon" 
 1 shukra69 
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[FairfieldLife] The Four Little PIGS

[emptybill]

This explanation was in the body of the text.

This must make it guhya-mantra - the obscurity of the obvious.

EU democracies face this threat because deficit spending cannot

sustain an economy long-term.

At some point, foreign lenders will resist additional financing—

a problem already faced by a group of European countries known

as the PIGS. The PIGS are Portugal, Ireland, Greece, and Spain.

Together they have a combined debt of approximately $198 billion.

Spain's debt is highest, at $116 billion
 , followed by Greece at $37 billion
 ,

Ireland at $30 billion
  and Portugal at $15 billion
 .




--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu  wrote:
>
> See what you get for being a bit too obscure? ;-)
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self Supporting Ontological Identities - was Deepak Chopra failed etc

[lurkernomore20002000]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"
 wrote:
> I don't think anyone is consciously functioning on a quantum level of
anything. I think we are not designed for that by evolution. We have a
limited range of awareness for good reasons, we have only so much
ability to be aware of shit and it had better include the soft growl of
a tiger behind us. So the quantum level is probably not the frequency we
are built to hang out on and I'm not sure that outside the use of math
and physics intellectually we ever will be.


I've got to figure out what this refinement of experience that seems to
grow in my life is all about.  I like the idea of saying, "this is cool,
I am operating at a more quantum level of consciousness", where I am a
little more aware of what I perceive to be the story behind the story. 
And I'd like to figure out what it is that seems to be pushing me
towards greater awareness about things.  Maybe I am  just mood making,
but my real life experience doesn't suggest this.  I like the comparison
between quantum phenomena and the growth of awareness.  It works for me,
but that's just me.

But what also works for me, is the notion that our world as a whole is
moving in a particular direction, one where a "quantum" leap may be
required.  As Confusious say, "May you live during interesting times",
or something to that effect.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: and European PIGS

[It's just a ride]

On Fri, Apr 2, 2010 at 4:30 PM, emptybill  wrote:

>
> Don't take it personally. PIGS is an acronym for Portugal, Ireland,
> Greece, Spain.
>
>
Actually, it's PIIGS:  Portugal, Italy, Ireland, Greece and Spain.  Now in
the US it's California, Illinois, New York and a growing list of states.


A Montana rancher got in his pickup and drove to a neighboring ranch and
knocked at the door. A young boy, about 9, opened the door "Is your Dad
home?" the rancher asked.
"No sir, he isn't," the boy replied. "He went into town."
"Well," said the rancher, "Is your Mother here?"
"No sir, she's not here either. She went into town with Dad."
"How about your brother, Howard? Is he here?"
"No sir, He went with Mom and Dad."
The rancher stood there for a few minutes, shifting from one foot to the
other and mumbling to himself.

"Is there anything I can do for you?" the boy asked politely. "I know where
all the tools are, if you want to borrow one. Or maybe I could take a
message for Dad."
"Well," said the rancher uncomfortably, "I really wanted to talk to your
Dad. It's about your brother Howard getting my daughter, Suzie, pregnant."'
The boy considered for a moment. "You would have to talk to Pa about that",
he finally conceded. "If it helps you any, I know that Pa charges $500 for
the bull and $50 for the hog, but I really don't know how much he gets for
Howard."

[FairfieldLife] Re: and European PIGS

[TurquoiseB]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu  wrote:
>
> TurquoiseB wrote:
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu  wrote:
> >   
> > > Ask EmptyBill, he's the one that posted that not me. No I don't 
> > > think Europeans are pigs but I think that many of the rich are.  
> > > Are you also rich?  ;-)
> >
> > If I'm European now (and a trip back to the US proved
> > that once and for all) and I'm merely financially com-
> > fortable and WAY short of rich, do I get a free pass?  :-)
> 
> I don't know, do you think you are entitled to more of the 
> pie than others? ;-)

Define "pie." 

If you are speaking of fruit or other things baked into
a flaky crust, no. I'm a one-serving dessert kinda guy.

If you are speaking of "pie" in the porn industry sense,
I have already had more than my fair share of it, thank
you. I would consider more a blessing, not a right.  :-)

[FairfieldLife] Re: Bal Gangadhar Tilak

[cardemaister]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "WillyTex"  wrote:
>
> carde:  
> > Tilak:
> > 
> The Rig Veda describes the geography of Northern India,
> so, I wonder why the Vedas don't mention a migration
> from somewhere else. If the Aryan speakers came from
> Siberia, wouldn't they have said something about it?
> 

Here's a reply to my question on a PaaNini-group:

Tilak's "Arctic Home of the Vedas" is still quoted whenever it is found 
suitable. Since it will neccessitate an acceptance of the fact that the Aryans 
(of the Rigveda at least) to be people coming to India from outside and thus go 
contrary to the 'autochthonous Aryan' argument of the Hindutva lobby, people do 
not talk much about that book now. However, there are still some beliefs which 
might have their origin due to an arctic home of the vedic aryans somewhere in 
their misty past. I reckon the following points in this category :-

1. In general the six months of the sun's northern course are considered 
auspicious and the other half inauspicious. Even death during the southern 
course is considered bad and, even today, according to the custom (laid down by 
the much later 'sutra' books) special propitiation is to be done before burning 
the body.

2. The 'pitris' or ;Manes' are said to be having daytime during the northerly 
course and night during the other half. This could probably be a reminiscence 
of the original migrants from what they heard from their ancestors.

3. South is the direction of the Lord of death, Yama and dead bodies are even 
today brought out of the home with its face facing south; in daily life the 
same position for sleeping is not considered good. (It was prohibited some 
decades ago, but things are changing now due to various compulsions.

There are a few more points which do not readily come to mind,and I will try to 
write later.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: and European PIGS

[Bhairitu]

See what you get for being a bit too obscure?   ;-)

emptybill wrote:
> Don't take it personally. PIGS is an acronym for Portugal, Ireland,
> Greece, Spain.
>
>
>
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "steve.brennon"
>  wrote:
>   
>> I am from Europe. Am I a pig ?
>> I wonder what it is that makes Americans so loved in the world. Never
>> mind, China will soon be the Economic Clout. It could not be any worse
>> could it.
>>
>> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote:
>>
>> ... the PIGS of Europe ...
>>
>> 
>
>
>
>
>   

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: and European PIGS

[Bhairitu]

TurquoiseB wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu  wrote:
>   
>> Ask EmptyBill, he's the one that posted that not me. No I don't 
>> think Europeans are pigs but I think that many of the rich are.  
>> Are you also rich?  ;-)
>> 
>
> If I'm European now (and a trip back to the US proved
> that once and for all) and I'm merely financially com-
> fortable and WAY short of rich, do I get a free pass?  :-)

I don't know, do you think you are entitled to more of the pie than 
others? ;-)

[FairfieldLife] Teabagger Cartoon of the Day - 4/2/10

[do.rflex]

Cartoon link: http://www.bartcop.com/db100402.gif

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Verizon to introduce dual-boot iPhone with Android

[Bhairitu]

Vaj wrote:
> On Apr 2, 2010, at 5:26 PM, TurquoiseB wrote:
>
>   
>>> Can you imagine Microsoft making Windows similarly dual-bootable 
>>> for other OS's? No way!
>>>   
>> I have had multi-OS-bootable systems on Windows platforms
>> since since Win3. As far as I know, multi-OS-boot has been
>> supported by Microsoft since XP. 
>> 
>
>
> Yeah now that I think about it, it's always been able to install various 
> Linux versions. 
>   

Microsoft also has a VM (Virtual Machine) you can install and run other 
OS's.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Verizon to introduce dual-boot iPhone with Android

[Vaj]

On Apr 2, 2010, at 5:26 PM, TurquoiseB wrote:

> > Can you imagine Microsoft making Windows similarly dual-bootable 
> > for other OS's? No way!
> 
> I have had multi-OS-bootable systems on Windows platforms
> since since Win3. As far as I know, multi-OS-boot has been
> supported by Microsoft since XP. 


Yeah now that I think about it, it's always been able to install various Linux 
versions. 

[FairfieldLife] Re: and European PIGS

[emptybill]

Don't take it personally. PIGS is an acronym for Portugal, Ireland,
Greece, Spain.




--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "steve.brennon"
 wrote:
>
> I am from Europe. Am I a pig ?
> I wonder what it is that makes Americans so loved in the world. Never
> mind, China will soon be the Economic Clout. It could not be any worse
> could it.
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote:
>
> ... the PIGS of Europe ...
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Verizon to introduce dual-boot iPhone with Android

[TurquoiseB]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj  wrote:
>
> > I think it would be a cold day in hell before Steve Jobs would 
> > ever let a company put a dual boot on an iPhone. ;-)
> 
> They call it "jailbreaking". It's definitely not something Apple 
> officially likes; every iPhone OS upgrade removes the last 
> jailbreak from the system.
> 
> > I know hackers do it but that's another matter entirely and Jobs 
> > hates people who hacks iPhones regardless of the fact he started 
> > his career as a hacker.
> 
> Well he has no problem with the Macintosh OS dual-booting, as 
> it's been dual-bootable for years and it's now built right in 
> to Mac OS 10. 
> 
> Can you imagine Microsoft making Windows similarly dual-bootable 
> for other OS's? No way!

I have had multi-OS-bootable systems on Windows platforms
since since Win3. As far as I know, multi-OS-boot has been
supported by Microsoft since XP. 

[FairfieldLife] Re: and European PIGS

[TurquoiseB]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu  wrote:
>
> Ask EmptyBill, he's the one that posted that not me. No I don't 
> think Europeans are pigs but I think that many of the rich are.  
> Are you also rich?  ;-)

If I'm European now (and a trip back to the US proved
that once and for all) and I'm merely financially com-
fortable and WAY short of rich, do I get a free pass?  :-)


> steve.brennon wrote:
> > I am from Europe. Am I a pig ?
> > I wonder what it is that makes Americans so loved in the world. 
> > Never mind, China will soon be the Economic Clout. It could not 
> > be any worse could it.
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu  wrote:
> >
> > ...  the PIGS of Europe ...
> >
>

Re: [FairfieldLife] Verizon to introduce dual-boot iPhone with Android

[Vaj]

On Apr 2, 2010, at 3:06 PM, Bhairitu wrote:

> Vaj wrote:
> >
> > On Apr 1, 2010, at 9:52 PM, Bhairitu wrote:
> >
> >> I don't know but probably because it varies from device to device.
> >>
> >> You did realize the article was an April Fools joke? ;-)
> >
> >
> > No I just scanned it briefly. Duh!
> >
> > It seemed plausible since you can install Linux on most Apple device, 
> > e.g. the iPod or the iPhone.
> 
> I think it would be a cold day in hell before Steve Jobs would ever let 
> a company put a dual boot on an iPhone. ;-)

They call it "jailbreaking". It's definitely not something Apple officially 
likes; every iPhone OS upgrade removes the last jailbreak from the system.

> 
> I know hackers do it but that's another matter entirely and Jobs hates 
> people who hacks iPhones regardless of the fact he started his career as 
> a hacker.

Well he has no problem with the Macintosh OS dual-booting, as it's been 
dual-bootable for years and it's now built right in to Mac OS 10. 

Can you imagine Microsoft making Windows similarly dual-bootable for other 
OS's? No way!

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: and European PIGS

[Bhairitu]

Ask EmptyBill, he's the one that posted that not me.  No I don't think 
Europeans are pigs but I think that many of the rich are.  Are you also 
rich?  ;-)


steve.brennon wrote:
> I am from Europe. Am I a pig ?
> I wonder what it is that makes Americans so loved in the world. Never
> mind, China will soon be the Economic Clout. It could not be any worse
> could it.
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu  wrote:
>
> ...  the PIGS of Europe ...
>
>
>   

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self Supporting Ontological Identities - was Deepak Chopra failed etc

[yifuxero]

I agree: the mind/brain has a QM interface; but nobody seems to know exactly 
how it works or manifests into psychic phenomena or impacts the ordinary world. 
 Penrose has changed his hypotheses several times.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung  wrote:
>
> Curtis,
> 
> Do you agree that the human nervous system can directly deal with the quantum 
> level?  I cite that a single photon can impact the retina and be a cause of a 
> triggering.  If so for photons, why not other "tiny stuff" impacting "other 
> parts" of the nervous system?  We now know that even butterflies can have 
> magnetic compasses, so why not us too? In fact, the animal world is repleat 
> with "super powers," so since ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny and we know 
> that we share DNA bits and pieces with even the most simple bacteria, why not 
> us too -- why don't we have the remote sensors of sharks and know what is 
> buried a few inches below the sand?
> 
> Like this, I think we are very sensitive machines, and perhaps have the DNA 
> to be much much more so, and thus, the question arises:  is there some 
> benefit to practicing trying to get the mind to be more aware of tiny stuff?
> 
> I think that restful alertness at least has the therapeutic value of, say, 
> catnapping, but that's not what I'm concerned with.  I'm wondering if every 
> bit of energy and particularity has "found its place" just as water seeks a 
> level.  If so, perhaps that "structure of the matrix of basic stuff that's 
> settled and residing amongst itself, is some sort of "standard" to align with 
> -- just as, say, a standard of an engineer is espoused to all other engineers 
> when it comes to physical objects "agreeing with each other so that 
> interfaces are possible."  Maybe putting the nervous system's sensors "onto" 
> that "refined" level of existence calibrates the nervous system as a kind of 
> "refreshment of the standard" -- like downloading some software again when it 
> has become corrupted.  
> 
> Just askin' -- not preachin'.
> 
> Edg
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"  
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "PaliGap"  wrote:
> > 
> > ME:  What an excellent response!  I will try to keep up.
> > 
> > 
> > > [snip]
> > > > With existence the question is "where do we start?"  
> > > > What are your first principles of experience.  I have 
> > > > chosen matter as my starting place and by kicking a stone 
> > > > or skipping 13 consecutive meals you might join me.  
> > > 
> > > This sounds like the Cambridge philospher G.E. Moore. Not to 
> > > be bothered by pesky concerns about the *existence of the 
> > > external world*, he offered a *handy* "proof":
> > > 
> > > "He gave a common sense argument against scepticism by raising 
> > > his right hand and saying "Here is one hand," and then raising 
> > > his left and saying "And here is another," then concluding 
> > > that there are at least two external objects in the world, and 
> > > therefore that he knows (by this argument) that an external 
> > > world exists. Not surprisingly, not everyone inclined to 
> > > sceptical doubts found Moore's method of argument entirely 
> > > convincing;"
> > 
> > I do get confused on all the levels of thought in play here.  One one hand 
> > (pun intended) I tend to agree.
> > 
> > > 
> > > > Now there is a position in philosophy that is used as
> > > > a thought exercise called extreme skepticism which says 
> > > > that since we only experience the outside world through 
> > > > our own minds and not directly, we have reason to doubt 
> > > > that anything exists as separate from our consciousness.
> > > 
> > > I think we're talking about "idealism" here (not scepticism). 
> > > (The above is after all based on a claim about "how things 
> > > are"!).
> > 
> > I was referring to the position that is skeptical of the existence of the 
> > outside world.  It is a different angle than idealism but maybe they meet 
> > at one end of the extreme. But in either case I still want my burger rare 
> > and my beer cold.
> > 
> > > 
> > > The opposite of idealism though is realism - not materialism.
> > 
> > Nice distinction.
> >  
> > > Materialism is to realism as southern comfort is to grain 
> > > spirits: just one of the options. The philosopher Peirce was a 
> > > realist - but also believed Plato-like in the reality of 
> > > abstract entities (as did Popper). 
> > 
> > Excellent, thanks for furthering the distinctions. 
> > 
> > > 
> > > So..just curious.. why be a "materialist"? Even idealists and 
> > > platonists get bruised feet when they kick stones...
> > 
> > I'm not sure I am a complete materialist but I am pretty close.  The 
> > problem arises when we apply these ideas to all the level we actually live 
> > on.  I am also a romantic so that doesn't really fit any extreme 
> > materialist model. And I believe that the arts are one of the best things 
> > we do on earth, even though I wis

[FairfieldLife] Over 20 Years Of David Koch’s Polluter Front Groups

[do.rflex]

TIMELINE: From Promoting Acid Rain To Climate Denial, Over 20 Years Of
David Koch's Polluter Front Groups
   
The corporate-backed front group Americans for Prosperity (AFP)
is again leading the charge for industry against environmental
protections. Earlier this month, AFP kicked off its "Regulation
Reality Tour
 " — a roadshow through the states of pivotal senators
pressuring the Environmental Protection Agency not to regulate carbon
emissions, as outlined by the Clean Air Act .

The campaign is part carnival, part sophisticated K Street lobbying.
Attendees are welcomed by an inflatable moonbounce
  for
children, free
  food and
drinks, and AFP staff dressed as "carbon cops" distributing
freebies to the crowd.


The rallies serve as a platform for AFP to scare voters with stories of
bureaucrats regulating churches and "radio controlled thermostats
 ." Moreover, operatives from AFP collect names and train
attendees on how to lobby Congress to defeat clean energy reform.

The founder and chairman of Americans for Prosperity is oil baron David
Koch
 , who is one of the
richest men in the world because of his oil, chemicals, and
manufacturing conglomerate Koch Industries.
  

Koch Industries   is a
major polluter with an atrocious
  record of
sloppy operations. According to the EPA, Koch Industries is responsible
for over 300 oil spills in the US and has leaked three million gallons
of crude oil into fisheries and drinking waters.


They were fined a record $35 million dollars and an additional $8
million in Minnesota for discharging into streams. But AFP's recent
crusade against the EPA is just the latest in Koch's twenty-year
campaign to have unrestricted power to pollute. Some highlights of the
timeline

:

– David Koch pioneered front groups focused on organizing grassroots
opposition to environmental regulations, opposition to climate science.


Koch's flagship organization, Citizens for a Sound Economy, now
known as Americans for Prosperity, orchestrated everything from anti-tax
protests aimed at opposing President Clinton to the current tea party
movement aimed at President Obama.

– The same tactics Koch-funded groups are now using against clean
energy reform were employed during the 1990's against (highly
successful) acid rain regulations, other EPA rules against pollution.


In the field, Koch's groups would use conspiracy theories to whip up
right-wing hysteria against regulations, while other Koch groups would
directly lobby, produce academic reports, and pay for advertisements.

– Koch helped anti-environment Republicans win policy battles and
congressional elections in the 1990's, elect Bush in 2000 and 2004.
And how the Bush administration rewarded Koch by adopting his
pro-pollution ideas and appointing his operatives to key positions.


Koch is the most singular force for the rampant anti-environment,
anti-climate science strain popular among the American right, which
stands in contrast
  to conservative parties in Europe and the rest of the world which
recognize the threat of manmade climate change.

Click here

to read the Wonk Room report.


http://thinkprogress.org/2010/04/01/koch-report-frontgroups/

[FairfieldLife] new TM film: 'Saving the Disposable Ones'

[merlin]

David Lynch Foundation world premiere of new film: 'Saving the Disposable Ones' 
- Transcendental Meditation helping Colombian children

David Lynch Foundation, USA1 April 2010


On April 8th, the David Lynch Foundation will premiere a new documentary, 
'Saving the Disposable Ones,' produced and directed by the award winning BBC 
documentarian, Stuart Tanner. 

This documentary presents a journey through the streets of Colombia where 
Father Gabriel Mejia is transforming the lives of abandoned children by 
providing shelter, love, and Transcendental Meditation. Father Gabriel will be 
in Fairfield, Iowa, USA, for this one-night showing and will have a question 
and answer discussion following the screening. 

Director Stuart Tanner will introduce the film and everyone is invited to join 
Father Gabriel for the question and answer session. The film is in Spanish with 
English subtitles.* 

When and where:
Thursday, April 8, 2010, at the Sondheim Center for Performing Arts in 
Fairfield.
Doors open at 7:15pm; the film begins at 7:45pm. 

About the documentary:
The film documents the work of Father Gabriel Mejia. Starting in Medellin, 
Colombia, in the mid-1980s, Father Gabriel opened the first Center de Hogares 
Claret: a place where children could come for a good meal and a safe place to 
sleep. 

In the late 1980s, he traveled to the United States where he learned 
Transcendental Meditation. He knew immediately that he had found the answer to 
the overwhelming stress the children suffered from living on the streets. 

As the power of the drug cartels waned, the number of Father Gabriel's orphan 
shelters increased. Now, in 2010, there are 47 shelters under Father Gabriel's 
direction, which are spread across all of Colombia. 

As the film documents, over time an extraordinary transformation in the lives 
of the children takes place. They are freed from the torments they endured 
living on the streets, recover from their drug addictions, and begin to gain an 
education. 

The David Lynch Foundation has currently provided over 120,000 scholarships 
around the world, including tens of thousands in Latin America. The proceeds 
from this premiere will go towards the David Lynch Foundation programs in Latin 
America, including Father Gabriel's Foundation, providing Transcendental 
Meditation instruction to at-risk populations. The program is offered on a 
voluntary basis, at no cost to the school or organization. 

For a trailer of this documentary, please visit Saving the Disposable Ones. 

For DLF.TV on Twitter, www.dlf.tv. 

Visit www.davidlynchfoundation.org and www.dlfprojects.org for more information 
on the foundation programs and initiatives. 

© Copyright 2010 David Lynch Foundation® 



__
Do You Yahoo!?
Sie sind Spam leid? Yahoo! Mail verfügt über einen herausragenden Schutz gegen 
Massenmails. 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

[FairfieldLife] Pope's preacher - another Vatican nutcase

[Yifu Xero]

http://www.cantalamessa.org/en/photos.php


  

[FairfieldLife] Transcendence

[steve.brennon]

What do you know about Transcendence, have you ever been there where
time does not encroach upon its encompass in the deepest bowled of the
ALL where we come to know our primordial SELF ?  If you have then tell
me what it is like there, and we can compare notes. Or are you all talk
and no substance?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "John"  wrote:
>
> The ultimate test of transcendence?
>

>

[FairfieldLife] Re: and European PIGS

[steve.brennon]

I am from Europe. Am I a pig ?
I wonder what it is that makes Americans so loved in the world. Never
mind, China will soon be the Economic Clout. It could not be any worse
could it.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu  wrote:

...  the PIGS of Europe ...

[FairfieldLife] Crucifixion: A Medical Perspective

[John]

The ultimate test of transcendence?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-EVfxABSoU&NR=1

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self Supporting Ontological Identities - was Deepak Chopra failed etc

[Duveyoung]

Curtis,

Always neatsokeeno to jaw witcha.  Always feels like were sipping a beer 
somewhere.

The excitation from a photon has been measured in the lab -- though it must be 
said that it takes up to six of them to get the retina to "believe that it 
actually happened," since the rods and cones do give false signals from time to 
time.  Once the retina has, um, "counted" the photons, then it sends a signal 
up to the brain, and the person says, "I saw a flash of a speck of light."

If survival of the fittest is considered, it would seem that the automated 
husbanding of "good genes," would have found survival value in having 
sensitivities to other very tiny impacts from magnetism, gravity, and other 
forms of radiation.  

Just holding your palm very near your face will show that by varying that 
distance by even a tiny amount will change how "hot" you feel the hand is; you 
can see you have a very sensitive heat detection system and that that ability, 
if amped, could be as if an infrared "camera" thingie. And we all have great 
noses that easily detect chemicals -- witness how every building entered has a 
precise smell, or how whole big hunks of memory can be triggered by an odor.  
That to me shows the brain is "hair triggered," if it can somehow recognize a 
chemical and then BAM it goes straight to a memory of grandma or whatever.  How 
many molecules does it take to get one to say, "Who farted?"  Not many, right?  

LSD shows that incredibly tiny amounts of chemical can affect the trillions of 
cells of one's body in powerful ways, and we know that the body manufactures a 
huge spectrum of chemicals -- most of which we but dimly know what the body 
does with -- and to me this means that there are bio-pathways for the brain -- 
via mental acts of control -- that can be used to encourage and to "favor" 
certain body/mind chemistries.  Perhaps the recitation of the mantra creates a 
precise chemical that has not even yet been recognized in the lab.  We know 
that "bad news" can instantly change our mind from happy to sad or angry or 
whatever, and this can only be because the mind urged the manufacturing of 
certain chemicals.  And it's not just an emotional shift, cuz one's whole body 
can "be of a vibe" -- typically expressed as, say, "the wind went out of my 
sails," and the body feels as if it is wrung dry of energy.

Since the body is set up to be absolutely delicate about chemistry and since we 
know the mind affects chemistry and vice versa, it doesn't seem to be a very 
big leap to say that "attention is a powerful action."  "What you put your 
attention on grows." -- I believe that in many ways.  

Sooo, if the mind can be lead to states of lesser excitation as easily as 
it can be lead to excitation (there are many techniques of "calming the body,") 
then when that status is achieved, is it not easy to say, "Hey, since it's so 
quiet 'down here," I now can 'pick up on' these quantum processes and be 
triggered thereby."  These processes are seldom clearly seen, because of the 
plentitude of other processes normally operative during waking.  

If I show you a dot on the horizon, you may feel it has but little power, but 
if I just say, "That red striped shirt -- that's your Dad coming, right?" then 
suddenly that dot's meaning has chemical shifting value.  

Isn't it valid to say that perceptions of the mind when it is "being quiet," 
can equally be "dot like" and assigned meanings that lead to massive 
excitations?  And can't we expect that one dot will excite one way and another 
another way -- just as Dad's shirt can differ from other shirts that have 
different impact thereby?

If so, then I submit that: the "nature of silence" as it is metaphorically 
embodied by a lesser state of excitation, is a "set of processes," that set is 
something that can be dwelt with, studied experientially and mindfully, and 
"researched" enough to show attributes that are not seen in normal life, and 
that those attributes of silence can be as calibrating and holistic and as 
impacting as LSD.  In short, dwelling in silence can be powerful -- negatively 
or positively -- but powerful.  

Like we've been warned -- the unenlightened but well practiced siddha can make 
a hut in the jungle, even somehow get the moon to appear in its window, but the 
siddha is at risk of thinking "what if a tiger comes?" -- and voila, the tiger 
dines on haunch of yogi.  This is why I say "attributes of silence" can be 
either positive or negative.

And maybe this is a reason to have a good mantra -- maybe a mantra attunes the 
"research" just as a red sheet of cellophane can tint a view.and such 
tinting necessarily makes invisible any objects of that exact hue.  Just so, 
maybe the mantra protects us from suddenly thinking "tiger" when one is "down 
there."  Heh, maybe the mantra is pure evil and with that tint all the bad 
stuff is blinkered from the view.  I love this idea  How ironic if true, eh?

As much time a

[FairfieldLife] Top 10 Conservative Anti-Gay Activists Caught Being Gay

[do.rflex]

Top 10 Conservative Anti-Gay Activists Caught Being Gay   By Joanne
  | Los Angeles

In light of prominent anti-gay activist Roy Ashburn recently being
caught walking out of a gay bar, and proving once again that
conservative voters have little to no Gaydar, here's a list of 10
conservative anti-gay activists who turned out to be gay themselves.

1. Troy King

This top entry, Alabama Attorney General Troy King, plays itself out in
beautiful symmetry.

Known for his vocal opposition to gay rights and for his attempt to
outlaw sex toys, King was caught by his wife while having sex with a
local homecoming King from--wait for it--Troy University.

Someone get the mascot over here and have it do a little dance.


2. Jim West

Spokane Mayor Jim West has worked really hard to debilitate gay rights
in his community. He supported a bill to ban gays and lesbians from
working in schools, daycare centers, and some state agencies, as well as
a bill that bars the state from distributing pamphlets informing people
how to protect themselves from HIV/AIDS.

He's proposed that "any touching of the sexual or other intimate parts
of a person" among teens be considered a criminal act.

However, for 25 years, West was having sexual relationships with boys
and young men from his community and was, before he was caught,
frequenting the very incognito website--just to show you his ninja
skills--gay.com

All under the covers, of course. He even offered to find boys he'd
"befriended" jobs with the city of Spokane in exchange for sex.

Some handcuffs, please. And no, not that kind.


3. Richard Curtis

This Washington State Representative has an anti-gay rights voting
record--he voted against domestic partnerships for gays and opposed a
bill prohibiting discrimination based on sexual orientation.

Oh really now? Well, it wasn't before long that Mr. Mega-Compensation
resigned from the House due to reports of his sexual encounter with a
male escort being made, you know, "public" and all.

The reputed male prostitute, Cody Castagna, with whom he was cavorting,
told police that Curtis offered him $1,000 to have sex with him and that
Curtis purchased two gay pornographic films from the hotel for them to
watch in his room.

Even more, this all went down with Curtis wearing a red negligee and
Castagna has pictures to prove it. Pictures he only took as revenge when
it was discovered that Curtis only had $200 in his wallet.

That's something to smile about. For us.


4. Bruce Barclay

Bruce Barclay, the Republican commissioner of Cumberland County,
Pennsylvania, is practically the gay porn star of politics. Due to an
allegation of rape by 20-year-old male Marshall McCurdy, police obtained
a warrant to search Barclay's home on March 31st.

They didn't find evidence of rape.

Instead, they found videotapes of hundreds of sexual encounters with men
that Barclay filmed on high-tech surveillance cameras. It was apparent
that Barclay and McCurdy had consensual sex.

It was also apparent that his personal Republican stance was not as
right-wing as he'd led people to believe.


5. Roy Ashburn

On March 3, 2010, this conservative California State Senator, who always
votes against any gay-rights bills, should have just stayed in for the
night.

But then again, if he did, he wouldn't have accidentally outted himself
in such a grand way.

As the story goes, after leaving a gay bar with an unidentified man, Roy
Ashburn was arrested for DUI.

Despite his classy reveal, the point is this: he left a gay bar with an
unidentified man. Since then, Ashburn has admitted that he's gay to KERN
radio host Inga Barks, but that his voting record reflects his
"responsibility to [his] constituents".


6. Larry Craig

Former Idaho Republican, Larry Craig, who served 18 years in the U.S.
Senate, supported the Federal Marriage Amendment which banned marriage
rights to same-sex couples and has a 0 rating from the Human Rights
Campaign group.

His rating for lewd conduct, however, was raging high when he was
arrested at the Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport on June 11,
2007 for cottaging an undercover police officer.

A male undercover police officer.

Can the HRC give out negative ratings? Please?


7. Ed Schrock

Ed Schrock vehemently opposed gay-rights issues during his two terms in
Congress. From same-sex marriage to allowing gays in the military, he
was 100% against anything gay happening anywhere on, or near, the grid.

Meanwhile, off the grid: August 30, 2004, Ed Schrock dropped out of the
race for his third term in Congress after being caught on tape
soliciting sex from a gay prostitute.

Don't know why it was so incriminating he didn't even run, he could have
just said what the next guy did when he got caught for the same thing...


8. Robert Allen

The truth comes out in a public restroom yet again. Florida State
Representative, Robert Allen, was arrested for offering to perform
fellatio to an undercover cop in the 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Verizon to introduce dual-boot iPhone with Android

[Bhairitu]

Vaj wrote:
>
> On Apr 1, 2010, at 9:52 PM, Bhairitu wrote:
>
>> I don't know but probably because it varies from device to device.
>>
>> You did realize the article was an April Fools joke? ;-)
>
>
> No I just scanned it briefly. Duh!
>
> It seemed plausible since you can install Linux on most Apple device, 
> e.g. the iPod or the iPhone.

I think it would be a cold day in hell before Steve Jobs would ever let 
a company put a dual boot on an iPhone. ;-)

I know hackers do it but that's another matter entirely and Jobs hates 
people who hacks iPhones regardless of the fact he started his career as 
a hacker.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Private sector hiring lifts March payrolls at fastest rate in 3 yrs

[Bhairitu]

I'd like to see a breakdown of exactly what these new jobs were.  We 
know that 48K of them were government temp workers for the census.  How 
many 50 or older people were hired for jobs in the profession they 
previously worked in?

There is no "next big thing" that will create new jobs.  People in the 
US have too much stuff anyway.  We need to kick back and enjoy what we have.

Maybe what the government should do is take over the banks or force them 
to re-evaluate folks mortgage to the principal and drop the principal to 
what it should be!   That way people can keep their homes and afford 
them on a lower income.  Otherwise you are going to get vast 
neighborhoods of unoccupied homes which are ripe for crime.

If you still believe that laissez faire capitalism works then you have 
blinders on.

do.rflex wrote:
> (Reuters) - U.S. employers created jobs in March at the fastest rate in
> three years as private firms stepped up hiring, the strongest signal yet
> that the economic recovery is on a solid footing and needs less
> government help.
>
> Non-farm payrolls rose 162,000 and the unemployment rate held steady at
> 9.7 percent for a third straight month, the Labor Department said on
> Friday.
>
> The payrolls increase was only the third since the economy sunk into
> recession in late 2007 and was the largest gain since March 2007.
> Private employers hired more workers than expected, while temporary
> hiring for the U.S. decennial census came in below economists'
> forecasts.
>
> "The economy is on a path to sustainable recovery. The fragility of the
> recovery is becoming less worrisome," said Chris Rupkey, chief financial
> economist at Bank of Tokyo-Mitsubishi UFJ in New York.
>
> Job growth is critical to keeping alive the economic expansion that
> started in the second half of 2009 once government stimulus efforts and
> a boost from a rebuilding inventories by businesses fade.
>
> The U.S. dollar touched a fresh seven-month peak against the yen on the
> upbeat employment report, while the yield on the benchmark 10-year
> Treasury note jumped to a 9-1/2 month high. U.S. government stock index
> futures rose slightly.
>
> Payrolls for January were revised upward to show a 14,000 gain instead
> of a loss of 26,000, while February was adjusted to show only a loss of
> 14,000. Previously, February had been reported as down 36,000.
>
> Markets had expected non-farm payrolls to rise 190,000 last month and
> the jobless rate to hold steady at 9.7 percent, but a solid rise in
> private-sector hiring gave the report a stronger-than-expected tone.
>
> POLITICAL PRESSURE
>
> The labor market has lagged the economy's recovery from the worst
> downturn since the 1930s, creating a political challenge for President
> Barack Obama. Voter anger over high unemployment could cost Obama's
> Democratic party its control of both the Senate and the House of
> Representatives in November elections.
>
> Christina Romer, a top White House economic adviser, said the employment
> report showed "continued signs of gradual labor market healing."
>
> Some analysts said the relatively strong details of the report suggested
> the economy was on a path that could lead the Federal Reserve to raise
> interest rates as early as late this year.
>
> The U.S. central bank has promised to keep overnight rates -- currently
> near zero -- ultra low for an extended period, citing subdued inflation
> and the likelihood the economic recovery will be moderate.
>
> The Fed has identified unemployment as one of the factors that will
> determine when it will start raising rates.
>
> "Job creation would help support the positive momentum in the economy,
> underpinning consumer spending and confidence and making it a sustained
> recovery," said Michelle Meyer, an economist at Barclays Capital in New
> York.
>
> "If the rest of the data flow this month proves healthy, we believe the
> Fed will consider removing the 'extended period' language at the April
> 28 meeting and start hiking rates in September."
>
> The government hired 48,000 temporary workers last month for the
> decennial census, while private payrolls jumped by 123,000, the biggest
> increase since May 2007. Private payrolls rose 8,000 in February.
>
> Employment last month was also lifted by a snap back from February's
> weather-related losses. Manufacturing added 17,000 jobs in March and
> construction payrolls grew 15,000 after dropping 59,000 in February.
>
> Payrolls in the service sector increased as retail employment climbed
> 14,900. Government employment increased 39,000, reflecting the temporary
> hiring for the census.
>
> The average workweek for all employees rose to 34 hours from 33.9 hours
> in February.
>
> Despite the sharp turnaround in employment last month, weaknesses still
> remain. A broad measure of unemployment that includes the number of
> workers marginally attached to the labor force and those working part
> time for economic reasons edged up to 16.9 percent 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Soviet Socialism, American Leftists, and European PIGS

[Bhairitu]

emptybill wrote:
> Interestingly, you don't have to look as far as Europe to find such
> as doomsday scenario. Leftists in California have driven the state to
> the brink of bankruptcy with a deficit of $20 billion
>  x> . If major reforms are not enacted, California will join the PIGS of
> Europe as another failed social democracy. Perhaps worse, if Obamacare
> and other Democratic policies are allowed to continue unaltered, America
> itself will join in this fate.

Yeah right empty, like the rightists can do any better.  I live in 
California.  Both sides the aisle were responsible for being goofy about 
boom periods, behaving like 5 years olds, and not realizing for every 
boom you have a bust.  All they had to do was look around to see how 
unreal the boom was.  But apparently they lack the IQ to evaluate such 
things.  Thus we need to clear the state assembly and start all over 
again.  But I think it is to late and California will collapse into an 
economic black hole pulling the rest of the US in with with a little 
help from New York of course.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Verizon to introduce dual-boot iPhone with Android

[Vaj]

On Apr 1, 2010, at 9:52 PM, Bhairitu wrote:


I don't know but probably because it varies from device to device.

You did realize the article was an April Fools joke? ;-)



No I just scanned it briefly. Duh!

It seemed plausible since you can install Linux on most Apple device,  
e.g. the iPod or the iPhone.

[FairfieldLife] Private sector hiring lifts March payrolls at fastest rate in 3 yrs

[do.rflex]

(Reuters) - U.S. employers created jobs in March at the fastest rate in
three years as private firms stepped up hiring, the strongest signal yet
that the economic recovery is on a solid footing and needs less
government help.

Non-farm payrolls rose 162,000 and the unemployment rate held steady at
9.7 percent for a third straight month, the Labor Department said on
Friday.

The payrolls increase was only the third since the economy sunk into
recession in late 2007 and was the largest gain since March 2007.
Private employers hired more workers than expected, while temporary
hiring for the U.S. decennial census came in below economists'
forecasts.

"The economy is on a path to sustainable recovery. The fragility of the
recovery is becoming less worrisome," said Chris Rupkey, chief financial
economist at Bank of Tokyo-Mitsubishi UFJ in New York.

Job growth is critical to keeping alive the economic expansion that
started in the second half of 2009 once government stimulus efforts and
a boost from a rebuilding inventories by businesses fade.

The U.S. dollar touched a fresh seven-month peak against the yen on the
upbeat employment report, while the yield on the benchmark 10-year
Treasury note jumped to a 9-1/2 month high. U.S. government stock index
futures rose slightly.

Payrolls for January were revised upward to show a 14,000 gain instead
of a loss of 26,000, while February was adjusted to show only a loss of
14,000. Previously, February had been reported as down 36,000.

Markets had expected non-farm payrolls to rise 190,000 last month and
the jobless rate to hold steady at 9.7 percent, but a solid rise in
private-sector hiring gave the report a stronger-than-expected tone.

POLITICAL PRESSURE

The labor market has lagged the economy's recovery from the worst
downturn since the 1930s, creating a political challenge for President
Barack Obama. Voter anger over high unemployment could cost Obama's
Democratic party its control of both the Senate and the House of
Representatives in November elections.

Christina Romer, a top White House economic adviser, said the employment
report showed "continued signs of gradual labor market healing."

Some analysts said the relatively strong details of the report suggested
the economy was on a path that could lead the Federal Reserve to raise
interest rates as early as late this year.

The U.S. central bank has promised to keep overnight rates -- currently
near zero -- ultra low for an extended period, citing subdued inflation
and the likelihood the economic recovery will be moderate.

The Fed has identified unemployment as one of the factors that will
determine when it will start raising rates.

"Job creation would help support the positive momentum in the economy,
underpinning consumer spending and confidence and making it a sustained
recovery," said Michelle Meyer, an economist at Barclays Capital in New
York.

"If the rest of the data flow this month proves healthy, we believe the
Fed will consider removing the 'extended period' language at the April
28 meeting and start hiking rates in September."

The government hired 48,000 temporary workers last month for the
decennial census, while private payrolls jumped by 123,000, the biggest
increase since May 2007. Private payrolls rose 8,000 in February.

Employment last month was also lifted by a snap back from February's
weather-related losses. Manufacturing added 17,000 jobs in March and
construction payrolls grew 15,000 after dropping 59,000 in February.

Payrolls in the service sector increased as retail employment climbed
14,900. Government employment increased 39,000, reflecting the temporary
hiring for the census.

The average workweek for all employees rose to 34 hours from 33.9 hours
in February.

Despite the sharp turnaround in employment last month, weaknesses still
remain. A broad measure of unemployment that includes the number of
workers marginally attached to the labor force and those working part
time for economic reasons edged up to 16.9 percent from 16.8 percent in
February.

About 44.1 percent unemployed workers in March had been out of a job for
27 weeks or more.

"While things are clearly improving, the private sector is still not
positioned to create sufficient numbers of jobs," said Heidi Shierholz
and economist at the Economic Policy Institute in Washington. "There is
still an urgent need for aggressive policies to create jobs."

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN1715009520100402

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self Supporting Ontological Identities - was Deepak Chopra failed etc

[curtisdeltablues]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung  wrote:
>
> Curtis,
> 
> Do you agree that the human nervous system can directly deal with the quantum 
> level?  I cite that a single photon can impact the retina and be a cause of a 
> triggering.

Is that something we are conscious of?

If so for photons, why not other "tiny stuff" impacting "other parts" of the 
nervous system?

I don't know, like what?

 We now know that even butterflies can have magnetic compasses, so why not us 
too?

We might have magnetic compasses.  It seems like the kind of thing that 
migratory creatures would need though so I'm not sure.

In fact, the animal world is repleat with "super powers," so since ontogeny 
recapitulates phylogeny and we know that we share DNA bits and pieces with even 
the most simple bacteria, why not us too -- why don't we have the remote 
sensors of sharks and know what is buried a few inches below the sand?

I think we may have spent our brain cells differently than sharks.  But we may 
have these kinds of latent powers  I'm all for it.  I wonder if mothers have a 
psychic link with their kids.  I just haven't seen much evidence. I am just 
predisposed to believe it is possible.

> 
> Like this, I think we are very sensitive machines, and perhaps have the DNA 
> to be much much more so, and thus, the question arises:  is there some 
> benefit to practicing trying to get the mind to be more aware of tiny stuff?

Here we may disagree on some definitions. What do you mean "aware of tiny 
stuff?"  I don't believe meditation qualifies if that is where you are heading.

> 
> I think that restful alertness at least has the therapeutic value of, say, 
> catnapping, but that's not what I'm concerned with.  I'm wondering if every 
> bit of energy and particularity has "found its place" just as water seeks a 
> level.  If so, perhaps that "structure of the matrix of basic stuff that's 
> settled and residing amongst itself, is some sort of "standard" to align with 
> -- just as, say, a standard of an engineer is espoused to all other engineers 
> when it comes to physical objects "agreeing with each other so that 
> interfaces are possible."  Maybe putting the nervous system's sensors "onto" 
> that "refined" level of existence calibrates the nervous system as a kind of 
> "refreshment of the standard" -- like downloading some software again when it 
> has become corrupted.

I had some trouble following that.  And I'm not sure meditation has anything to 
do with refinement.  But I am predisposed to believe it may have a value for 
brain functioning.  I just don't think we know what it is yet.  Or what type to 
use. But sitting quietly certainly has a lot of psychological and intellectual 
and emotional value for me so perhaps that is what you are talking about.  But 
traditional meditation teachings seem to get carried away with the benefit 
claims. I think it has uses but is a long way from the method for figuring out 
how the universe functions fer real reeel.
  
> 
> Just askin' -- not preachin'.
> 


I never get a preach'n vibe from you brother.

I don't think anyone is consciously functioning on a quantum level of anything. 
 I think we are not designed for that by evolution.  We have a limited range of 
awareness for good reasons, we have only so much ability to be aware of shit 
and it had better include the soft growl of a tiger behind us.  So the quantum 
level is probably not the frequency we are built to hang out on and I'm not 
sure that outside the use of math and physics intellectually we ever will be. 





> Edg
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"  
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "PaliGap"  wrote:
> > 
> > ME:  What an excellent response!  I will try to keep up.
> > 
> > 
> > > [snip]
> > > > With existence the question is "where do we start?"  
> > > > What are your first principles of experience.  I have 
> > > > chosen matter as my starting place and by kicking a stone 
> > > > or skipping 13 consecutive meals you might join me.  
> > > 
> > > This sounds like the Cambridge philospher G.E. Moore. Not to 
> > > be bothered by pesky concerns about the *existence of the 
> > > external world*, he offered a *handy* "proof":
> > > 
> > > "He gave a common sense argument against scepticism by raising 
> > > his right hand and saying "Here is one hand," and then raising 
> > > his left and saying "And here is another," then concluding 
> > > that there are at least two external objects in the world, and 
> > > therefore that he knows (by this argument) that an external 
> > > world exists. Not surprisingly, not everyone inclined to 
> > > sceptical doubts found Moore's method of argument entirely 
> > > convincing;"
> > 
> > I do get confused on all the levels of thought in play here.  One one hand 
> > (pun intended) I tend to agree.
> > 
> > > 
> > > > Now there is a position in philosophy that is used as
> > > > a thought exercise called ext

[FairfieldLife] Frivolous Health Care Reform Lawsuit's Scarce Defenders

[do.rflex]

Frivolous Health Care Reform Lawsuit's Scarce Defenders

Steve Benen - Washington Monthly - March 31, 2010

Finding an ambitious, far-right state attorney general willing to
waste tax dollars challenging the constitutionality of the Affordable
Care Act is easy. Finding legal experts who think their case has any
merit at all is surprisingly difficult
 .
The University of Washington tried to organize a debate on whether the
health-care reform bill is constitutional. But it couldn't find a law
professor to argue that it isn't, reports the Seattle Times.

"I will say that we tried very hard to get a professor who could come
and who thinks this is flat-out unconstitutional," said the moderator.
"But there are relatively few of them, and they are in great demand."

Even a former Bush/Cheney U.S. attorney was on hand, and he agreed that
the Republican litigation not only lacks merit, but should be "seen as a
political exercise
 ."

Elsewhere, however, Republicans continue to take the frivolous lawsuit
seriously. In Georgia, for example, state Attorney General Thurbert
Baker (D) said he would not waste taxpayer money on the case that no
serious person can defend. As of yesterday, 31 Republicans in the state
legislature had signed a resolution calling for the AG's impeachment
 .
Seriously.

"It's a disappointing response by some members of our legislature,"
Baker said. "I don't think it speaks well for the future of this state
or the image of Georgia."

You don't say.

As of now, 14 states, thanks to conservative attorneys general with time
and public resources to waste, are pushing a lawsuit against the new
health care law that even conservative legal experts consider a weak
joke. It was 13, but Indiana's AG signed on this week.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2010_03/023138.php

[FairfieldLife] Soviet Socialism, American Leftists, and European PIGS

[emptybill]

But ... but ... left is right and right is wrong ... right?
 
 Soviet Socialism, American Leftists, and
European PIGS

by Rep. Devin Nunes (R-CA)  



We have heard a lot lately about my comments relating Obamacare to the
failed socialist policies of the Soviet Union. Liberals and a host of
radical leftists have mocked my observation in their blogs and some
mainstream news outlets have even poked fun at me. However, the
transformation of America is no laughing matter.



The parallels between leftist policies today and those of failed
socialist states are undeniable; so much so that even a Russian
state-owned news commentator was forced to concede my point:

"Republican Devin Nunes accused the bill of continuing the failed
Soviet experiment. He was overly emotional but there is a grain of truth
in what he said… Apparently, the socialist experience has proved too
tempting to be resisted."
  (RIANOVOSTI News,
March 22, 2010)

Thanks to increasing regulation, rising taxes and greater centralization
of power in Washington America is slowly leaving behind the foundation
of its economic strength; namely the entrepreneurial energy that comes
from freedom. And while a full-fledged Marxist revolution may not be on
the horizon, the transformation of America in the image of European
socialism is real and it should be of great concern to us all.




The most obvious example of failed central planning remains the Soviet
Union. However, failed socialist policies are not limited to the history
books. Consider the economic decline and social unrest in Europe.



As a result of government dominance throughout the European economy,
member states are facing the current global economic crisis with limited
options. The direct pain confronting Europeans is therefore magnified,
just as the prospects for economic recovery are limited. These
limitations are practical, resulting from the patchwork of laws and
regulations imposed on their economies, as well as political, the result
of mass dependence on government programs—a dependence shared by all
but a handful of wealthy elites.



Evidence of this fact is widely available today. For example, French
leaders recently cut federal spending in an attempt to address their
national debt crisis. The cuts, however, resulted in massive general
strikes, as well as social unrest—riots, looting and mass
demonstrations.



Throughout Europe political leaders have been burned in effigy by
protestors. They are being forced to choose between social order and
financial order. Pay cuts for government employees, for example, result
in general strikes. More radical reforms, including those needed for
long-term economic health, can't even be discussed openly.




In the final analysis, without the support of the masses, EU governments
are left without the ability to change course and are forced to preside
over national decline. I refer to this condition as an economic death
spiral.



EU democracies face this threat because deficit spending cannot sustain
an economy long-term. At some point, foreign lenders will resist
additional financing—a problem already faced by a group of European
countries known as the PIGS. The PIGS are Portugal, Ireland, Greece, and
Spain. Together they have a combined debt of approximately $198 billion.
Spain's debt is highest, at $116 billion
 , followed by Greece at $37 billion
 , Ireland at $30 billion
  and Portugal at $15 billion
 .



Some have suggested these nations could be the first in the developed
world to default on their credit obligations but the more likely
scenario is that they will face long-term economic stagnation. This
means high unemployment, high interest rates and little prospect for
improvement.


Interestingly, you don't have to look as far as Europe to find such
as doomsday scenario. Leftists in California have driven the state to
the brink of bankruptcy with a deficit of $20 billion
 . If major reforms are not enacted, California will join the PIGS of
Europe as another failed social democracy. Perhaps worse, if Obamacare
and other Democratic policies are allowed to continue unaltered, America
itself will join in this fate.

[FairfieldLife] Obama Zombies-youtube book review.

[BillyG]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajn5t9YVVDc







More Buying Choices   18 used &
new
  from $14.61 Have one
to sell?   Sell  yours here


Share
 
 

  [Obama Zombies: How the Liberal Machine Brainwashed
My Generation] 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self Supporting Ontological Identities - was Deepak Chopra failed etc

[Duveyoung]

Curtis,

Do you agree that the human nervous system can directly deal with the quantum 
level?  I cite that a single photon can impact the retina and be a cause of a 
triggering.  If so for photons, why not other "tiny stuff" impacting "other 
parts" of the nervous system?  We now know that even butterflies can have 
magnetic compasses, so why not us too? In fact, the animal world is repleat 
with "super powers," so since ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny and we know that 
we share DNA bits and pieces with even the most simple bacteria, why not us too 
-- why don't we have the remote sensors of sharks and know what is buried a few 
inches below the sand?

Like this, I think we are very sensitive machines, and perhaps have the DNA to 
be much much more so, and thus, the question arises:  is there some benefit to 
practicing trying to get the mind to be more aware of tiny stuff?

I think that restful alertness at least has the therapeutic value of, say, 
catnapping, but that's not what I'm concerned with.  I'm wondering if every bit 
of energy and particularity has "found its place" just as water seeks a level.  
If so, perhaps that "structure of the matrix of basic stuff that's settled and 
residing amongst itself, is some sort of "standard" to align with -- just as, 
say, a standard of an engineer is espoused to all other engineers when it comes 
to physical objects "agreeing with each other so that interfaces are possible." 
 Maybe putting the nervous system's sensors "onto" that "refined" level of 
existence calibrates the nervous system as a kind of "refreshment of the 
standard" -- like downloading some software again when it has become corrupted. 
 

Just askin' -- not preachin'.

Edg


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"  
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "PaliGap"  wrote:
> 
> ME:  What an excellent response!  I will try to keep up.
> 
> 
> > [snip]
> > > With existence the question is "where do we start?"  
> > > What are your first principles of experience.  I have 
> > > chosen matter as my starting place and by kicking a stone 
> > > or skipping 13 consecutive meals you might join me.  
> > 
> > This sounds like the Cambridge philospher G.E. Moore. Not to 
> > be bothered by pesky concerns about the *existence of the 
> > external world*, he offered a *handy* "proof":
> > 
> > "He gave a common sense argument against scepticism by raising 
> > his right hand and saying "Here is one hand," and then raising 
> > his left and saying "And here is another," then concluding 
> > that there are at least two external objects in the world, and 
> > therefore that he knows (by this argument) that an external 
> > world exists. Not surprisingly, not everyone inclined to 
> > sceptical doubts found Moore's method of argument entirely 
> > convincing;"
> 
> I do get confused on all the levels of thought in play here.  One one hand 
> (pun intended) I tend to agree.
> 
> > 
> > > Now there is a position in philosophy that is used as
> > > a thought exercise called extreme skepticism which says 
> > > that since we only experience the outside world through 
> > > our own minds and not directly, we have reason to doubt 
> > > that anything exists as separate from our consciousness.
> > 
> > I think we're talking about "idealism" here (not scepticism). 
> > (The above is after all based on a claim about "how things 
> > are"!).
> 
> I was referring to the position that is skeptical of the existence of the 
> outside world.  It is a different angle than idealism but maybe they meet at 
> one end of the extreme. But in either case I still want my burger rare and my 
> beer cold.
> 
> > 
> > The opposite of idealism though is realism - not materialism.
> 
> Nice distinction.
>  
> > Materialism is to realism as southern comfort is to grain 
> > spirits: just one of the options. The philosopher Peirce was a 
> > realist - but also believed Plato-like in the reality of 
> > abstract entities (as did Popper). 
> 
> Excellent, thanks for furthering the distinctions. 
> 
> > 
> > So..just curious.. why be a "materialist"? Even idealists and 
> > platonists get bruised feet when they kick stones...
> 
> I'm not sure I am a complete materialist but I am pretty close.  The problem 
> arises when we apply these ideas to all the level we actually live on.  I am 
> also a romantic so that doesn't really fit any extreme materialist model. And 
> I believe that the arts are one of the best things we do on earth, even 
> though I wish the more earnest types would cure cancer already.
> 
> > 
> > When you say you "choose it as a starting place", I wonder. 
> > Aren't those Frenchies and continentals on to something when 
> > they argue that if you put aside all assumptions and 
> > preconceptions, especially our conditioning towards 
> > "naturalism", then you MUST start with *your own being* (or 
> > something more esoteric in German!)
> 
> It is hard for me to go there.  The stuff I live with

Re: [FairfieldLife] The sayings of APU

[Bhairitu]

curtisdeltablues wrote:
> In light of some deep conversations here I would like to offer my source of 
> inspiration and solace in this complex and often confusing world.  This voice 
> somehow calms my restless spirit and brings me back to a sense of my place in 
> the universe:
>  
> http://www.soundboard.com/sb/Apu_Simpsons_Sounds.aspx
>
> also
>
> http://www.realmofdarkness.net/sounds/simpsons/apu-soundboard.htm
>
> and the whole google list generated by typing simpson's soundboard,apu
>
>
> I guess it has that calming Maharishi's Indian lilt for me!

In case you don't remember a spin-off series based on Apu and the 
convenience store was to launch in the fall of 2001.  Then 9-11 came 
along. 

[FairfieldLife] The sayings of APU

[curtisdeltablues]

In light of some deep conversations here I would like to offer my source of 
inspiration and solace in this complex and often confusing world.  This voice 
somehow calms my restless spirit and brings me back to a sense of my place in 
the universe:
 
http://www.soundboard.com/sb/Apu_Simpsons_Sounds.aspx

also

http://www.realmofdarkness.net/sounds/simpsons/apu-soundboard.htm

and the whole google list generated by typing simpson's soundboard,apu


I guess it has that calming Maharishi's Indian lilt for me!

[FairfieldLife] Fwd: States Wage Constitutional ObamaCare Legal War

[WLeed3]

 
  

 From: i...@ameripac.org
To: wle...@aol.com
Sent: 4/2/2010 11:45:07 A.M.  Eastern Daylight Time
Subj: States Wage Constitutional ObamaCare Legal  War





States Wage Constitutional ObamaCare Legal  WarAmericans Are Fighting Back 
>From  Outside-The-Beltway Against Elitist Washington Democrats To Protect  
Civil Rights. State AG's Are Preparing to Stop The Unconstitutional  
OBAMACARE Power Grab Enforcement by the IRS.  

ALERT: State lawmakers and attorneys general are  lining up to challenge 
the constitutionality of ObamaCare and wage an  outside-the-Beltway war 
against it in the courts. The new IRS mandate  with ObamaCare is to enforce 
penalties and   collections making Americans buy health insurance. If you're 
due a 
 refund or some other federal benefit, and you didn't obtain qualified  
insurance, your refund or benefit will be tapped for your fee.  

The IRS is not a bill collector, insurance is not a tax  and the IRS lacks 
the authority to enforce the collection of insurance  premiums but the 
mandate effectively creates a back door tax for  government run healthcare. 

Protect Your Civil  Rights STOP The OBAMACARE Power Grab 
_FAX  NOW Tell All 50 State Attorneys General TO Join The Fight!_ 
(http://news.dienerconsultants.com/ct/4101999:6092972412:m:4:176034031:43E368B2058ECFA
8B1719D85CECB8811)   

Florida Leads 10 States To Sue Over Health  Care Bill Passage 

Florida Attorney General Bill McCollum  will file a lawsuit against the 
U.S. government over passage of  ObamaCare. With 10 states joining Florida in 
this proposed lawsuit,  Alabama, Texas, South Carolina, Utah, Nebraska, 
Pennsylvania,  Washington, North Dakota and South Dakota, the lawsuit will 
challenge if  the passage of the bill is constitutional. 

"The health care  reform legislation passed by the U.S. House of 
Representatives last  night clearly violates the U.S. Constitution and 
infringes on 
each  state's sovereignty," McCollum said during a news conference.  

The lawsuit will be filed once Obama signs ObamaCare into law.  McCollum 
expects the lawsuit to end up in the Supreme Court's hands.  Massachusetts is 
painfully aware of the destruction a healthcare  insurance mandate does. It 
is the only state in the nation to currently  require mandatory health 
insurance for its residents. The failed  healthcare plan has all but bankrupted 
the state. 

Voters in  Massachusetts know this and took back the Kennedy seat in the 
Senate by  electing Scott Brown. Now America is outraged that Democrats by 
passed  the people of and the 41st vote against ObamaCare in the  Senate. 
Americans were ignored when Democrats in the House accepted  Pelosi's bribes of 
power, money, promises of committee positions and  getting better office 
space to sell out America and destroy the best  healthcare system in the world. 

Americans Must  Fight Back From Outside The Beltway Against Washington 
Democrats To  Protect Civil Rights. 

Protect Your Civil  Rights STOP The OBAMACARE Power Grab 
_FAX  NOW Tell All 50 State Attorneys General TO Join The Fight!_ 
(http://news.dienerconsultants.com/ct/4101999:6092972412:m:4:176034031:43E368B2058ECFA
8B1719D85CECB8811)   

Obama truly made history by betraying America and  has become a Progressive 
Dictator ruling from the extreme liberal left  with his own agenda. 

It will cost the IRS $5 billion to  $10 billion over 10 years to handle the 
new workload. 

Democrats  ignored the 60% of Americans that do not want ObamaCare. 
Democrats  ignored a mountain of more than 1,346,016 faxes from AmeriPAC 
supporters 
 and phone calls that virtually shut down the Congressional switchboard.  
Democrats told Americans that their government does not listen to them.  Now 
it is time to make them listen to the will of the people. 
 (http://news.dienerconsultants.com/ct
/4101999:6092972412:m:4:176034031:43E368B2058ECFA8B1719D85CECB8811) 
I need you to FAX all 50 State Attorneys General and urge them all  to join 
Florida and the 10 current states to have the Supreme Court  protect your 
constitutional and civil rights and STOP The OBAMACARE  Power Grab. 

Your voice can be heard - we need your urgent help  at AmeriPAC. 

Even smaller donations are going to help.  

Any amount - $1000, $500, $250, or even $100 will help us fight  the battle 
in Congress to STOP OBAMACARE. It's time we stood up and said  enough is 
enough! Please join us with your AmeriPAC donation TODAY.  Thank you. 

DONATE NOW. Stop ObamaCare!
_https://secure.conservativedonations.com/ameripac/?a=3975_ 
(http://news.dienerconsultants.com/ct/4102000:6092972412:m:4:176034031:43E368B2058ECFA8B1719
D85CECB8811)   

For more information, visit _www.AmeriPAC.org_ 
(http://news.dienerconsultants.com/ct/4102001:6092972412:m:4:176034031:43E368B2058ECFA8B1719D85CECB8811)
 
   
Sincerely,

Alan  Gottlieb 
Chairman, AmeriPAC
_www.AmeriPAC.org_ 
(http://news.dienerconsultants.com/ct/4102001:6092972412:m:4:176034031:43

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self Supporting Ontological Identities - was Deepak Chopra failed etc

[curtisdeltablues]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "PaliGap"  wrote:

ME:  What an excellent response!  I will try to keep up.


> [snip]
> > With existence the question is "where do we start?"  
> > What are your first principles of experience.  I have 
> > chosen matter as my starting place and by kicking a stone 
> > or skipping 13 consecutive meals you might join me.  
> 
> This sounds like the Cambridge philospher G.E. Moore. Not to 
> be bothered by pesky concerns about the *existence of the 
> external world*, he offered a *handy* "proof":
> 
> "He gave a common sense argument against scepticism by raising 
> his right hand and saying "Here is one hand," and then raising 
> his left and saying "And here is another," then concluding 
> that there are at least two external objects in the world, and 
> therefore that he knows (by this argument) that an external 
> world exists. Not surprisingly, not everyone inclined to 
> sceptical doubts found Moore's method of argument entirely 
> convincing;"

I do get confused on all the levels of thought in play here.  One one hand (pun 
intended) I tend to agree.

> 
> > Now there is a position in philosophy that is used as
> > a thought exercise called extreme skepticism which says 
> > that since we only experience the outside world through 
> > our own minds and not directly, we have reason to doubt 
> > that anything exists as separate from our consciousness.
> 
> I think we're talking about "idealism" here (not scepticism). 
> (The above is after all based on a claim about "how things 
> are"!).

I was referring to the position that is skeptical of the existence of the 
outside world.  It is a different angle than idealism but maybe they meet at 
one end of the extreme. But in either case I still want my burger rare and my 
beer cold.

> 
> The opposite of idealism though is realism - not materialism.

Nice distinction.
 
> Materialism is to realism as southern comfort is to grain 
> spirits: just one of the options. The philosopher Peirce was a 
> realist - but also believed Plato-like in the reality of 
> abstract entities (as did Popper). 

Excellent, thanks for furthering the distinctions. 

> 
> So..just curious.. why be a "materialist"? Even idealists and 
> platonists get bruised feet when they kick stones...

I'm not sure I am a complete materialist but I am pretty close.  The problem 
arises when we apply these ideas to all the level we actually live on.  I am 
also a romantic so that doesn't really fit any extreme materialist model. And I 
believe that the arts are one of the best things we do on earth, even though I 
wish the more earnest types would cure cancer already.

> 
> When you say you "choose it as a starting place", I wonder. 
> Aren't those Frenchies and continentals on to something when 
> they argue that if you put aside all assumptions and 
> preconceptions, especially our conditioning towards 
> "naturalism", then you MUST start with *your own being* (or 
> something more esoteric in German!)

It is hard for me to go there.  The stuff I live with seems every bit as real 
as my sense of Self but if my brain stops functioning someone else is going to 
be playing my guitars.
. 
> 
> We arrive in this world - we know not why - and prior to 
> EVERYTHING I would have thought, our starting point is "being-
> for-itself" (that's me, and, I surmise, you too), and "being-
> in-itself" (the stones and stuff that stand against us). How 
> do you get to negate yourself in favour of the "being-in-
> itself" as an *assumption*?

I guess I believe in both on a practical level.  The entity that has been 
created by my brain functioning is as real to me as it needs to be.  And I 
still need to keep my guitars in tune.  So I'm not sure that these theoretical 
questions are in conflict in my life.  However it is also entirely possible 
that I am just not really able to understand the challenge of the ideas you 
have presented and am completely missing your point. 






>

[FairfieldLife] Poll: Majority, ' Tax the Rich and preserve Medicare & Social Security '

[do.rflex]

This new Quinnipiac University poll
  shows the strongly populist--and traditionally
Democratic--leanings of Americans when it comes to bread and butter
issues.

The Quinnipiac University poll found that 60 percent of Americans among
both major political parties think raising income taxes on households
making more than $250,000 should be a main tenet of the government's
efforts to tame the deficit.


More than 70 percent, including a majority of Republicans, say those
making more than $1 million should pay more.

But 80 percent say raising taxes on those making less than that should
not be part of the government's approach. Moreover, most oppose touching
Medicare and Social Security - two long-term drivers of the budget
deficit over the coming decades

Obama's 2011 budget proposal and most of his fellow Democrats favor
eliminating tax breaks for individuals making more than $200,000 and for
households making more than $250,000, which were enacted in 2001 and
2003.

Not surprisingly, many more Democrats than Republicans back hiking taxes
on those making more, though 56 percent of Republicans did support
raising taxes on those making more than $1 million, the poll found.

There was only a slim partisan divide, with only slightly fewer
Republicans opposed to cutting the growth of the government health plan
for the elderly, Medicare or Social Security, to help the deficit.

The American public, even Republicans, want basic economic fairness and
recognize that taxing the people who make a lot of money is a helluva
lot fairer than cutting Social Security and Medicare for the rest of us.
It's the basic principle Democrats have operated on for decades.

If the deficit commission really wants to cut entitlements, perhaps they
should consider the quasi-entitlement program defense contractors, which
has been a pretty significant contributor to the bloated budget deficit
in the past decade, as the Project on Defense Alternatives
  has shown. That,
combined with some well placed tax increases, should go a long way to
putting the country back on a sustainable fiscal track.

Reuters via:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2010/4/1/852478/-Q-Poll:-Tax-the-Rich!

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self Supporting Ontological Identities - was Deepak Chopra failed etc

[curtisdeltablues]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain  wrote:
snip ME:   Anyhooo...I am not an extreme skeptic. Starting with the physical 
world suites me fine.
> 
> 
> Well yeah! If I was getting comped fine suites I too would be very fine 
> indeed with the physical world! 

Nice catch, I only wish spell check could save me from myself!

> 
> (oh, you meant suits you fine -- OK. Never Mind. --as AnnaRossanandana 
> schrrreeet -- thats the Primary mistake of the Intellect

I found this phrase in the movement to be offensive.  Plus I don't believe my 
intellect is mistaken about the primacy of matter I believe it is mistaken to 
believe in the primacy of consciousness.  (one that gets sorted out fast while 
under general anesthesia and I assume when the brain rots.) 



> 
> > If it is all illusion, how would I know?  
> 
> 
> I struggle with that a lot.Really. like if the illusions is so good, the 
> really good illusary mind and senses would fall into the trap of believing 
> they were real. 

Funny how in different stages of life different philosophical questions seem 
relevant.  Now I am more interested in built in cognitive deficiencies and what 
to do about them then deeper questions of existence.  I figure that I am the 
least likely to make a breakthrough in those areas, I can hardly keep all the 
tiny shit I need to perform my shows in all the right bags BEFORE I have driven 
off to the show. 




> 
> 
> >Plus there are really wonderful things to eat in this world once you take 
> >matter seriously as a first principle and prepare them well!
> > 
> > In our discussion I was making a different distinction between the concept 
> > of "existence" which contains different qualities for the absolute skeptic 
> > (serves shitty luncheons, I suggest you bring your own) and myself. (Bring 
> > a bottle of inexpensive wine if you care to but leave the food to me), and 
> > stuff like rocks and trees and our bodies, which is only conceptual for 
> > people who play too many video games. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > >
> >
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self Supporting Ontological Identities - was Deepak Chopra failed etc

[PaliGap]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" 
 wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "PaliGap" 
 wrote:
> >
> >  wrote:
> >  
> > >> Existence itself is your own direct experience in the
> > >> here and now.
> > 
> >  wrote:
> >  
> > > It is a concept, a conclusion we draw from our actual 
> > > perceptions and sensations and mental awareness.  It is 
not
> > > a self supporting ontological identity like matter.  
> > 
> > ..."a self supporting ontological identity". That puzzles 
me!
> > What does that mean? And how does matter get to have this
> > property?
> 
> 
[snip]
> With existence the question is "where do we start?"  
> What are your first principles of experience.  I have 
> chosen matter as my starting place and by kicking a stone 
> or skipping 13 consecutive meals you might join me.  

This sounds like the Cambridge philospher G.E. Moore. Not to 
be bothered by pesky concerns about the *existence of the 
external world*, he offered a *handy* "proof":

"He gave a common sense argument against scepticism by raising 
his right hand and saying "Here is one hand," and then raising 
his left and saying "And here is another," then concluding 
that there are at least two external objects in the world, and 
therefore that he knows (by this argument) that an external 
world exists. Not surprisingly, not everyone inclined to 
sceptical doubts found Moore's method of argument entirely 
convincing;"

> Now there is a position in philosophy that is used as
> a thought exercise called extreme skepticism which says 
> that since we only experience the outside world through 
> our own minds and not directly, we have reason to doubt 
> that anything exists as separate from our consciousness.

I think we're talking about "idealism" here (not scepticism). 
(The above is after all based on a claim about "how things 
are"!).

The opposite of idealism though is realism - not materialism. 
Materialism is to realism as southern comfort is to grain 
spirits: just one of the options. The philosopher Peirce was a 
realist - but also believed Plato-like in the reality of 
abstract entities (as did Popper). 

So..just curious.. why be a "materialist"? Even idealists and 
platonists get bruised feet when they kick stones...

When you say you "choose it as a starting place", I wonder. 
Aren't those Frenchies and continentals on to something when 
they argue that if you put aside all assumptions and 
preconceptions, especially our conditioning towards 
"naturalism", then you MUST start with *your own being* (or 
something more esoteric in German!). 

We arrive in this world - we know not why - and prior to 
EVERYTHING I would have thought, our starting point is "being-
for-itself" (that's me, and, I surmise, you too), and "being-
in-itself" (the stones and stuff that stand against us). How 
do you get to negate yourself in favour of the "being-in-
itself" as an *assumption*?

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self Supporting Ontological Identities - was Deepak Chopra failed etc

[tartbrain]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"  
wrote:
>
> 
> -- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain  wrote:
> >
> > 
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "PaliGap"  wrote:
> > >
> > >  wrote:
> > >  
> > > >> Existence itself is your own direct experience in the
> > > >> here and now.
> > > 
> > >  wrote:
> > >  
> > > > It is a concept, a conclusion we draw from our actual 
> > > > perceptions and sensations and mental awareness.  It is not
> > > > a self supporting ontological identity like matter.  
> > > 
> > > ..."a self supporting ontological identity". That puzzles me!
> > > What does that mean? 
> > 
> > > And how does matter get to have this
> > > property?
> > >
> > 
> > Most of it is made in China -- and sold then through Wall Mart. Matter goes 
> > wild when Existence is on sale (SCI # 153) -- they really stock up for 
> > future need.
> 
> You have been on quite an entertaining role this week!  Excellent.


I tend to jump quickly from mode to mode -- serious rationalist, mystic 
questioner, Gaia / Universe / Evolution Magnificence worshiper, snarky ass, 
copious reader, goofball commentator, sarcastic fool, rude guest at a fancy 
party, etc. 

I know if must not be clear to many readers which mode I am in, particularly 
when shifting gears fast.  Like Judy didn't see my sarcasm in the double blind 
post. Totally understandable. On a reread -- I may have missed it too. When I 
do re read some of my posts, I sometimes have a hard time (not the hard time 
good times sort of thing) figuring out which of all these voices inside my head 
was speaking at that particular time. 

Oh well. The glory of "Never Mind". 

This week, particularly yesterday I am way overloaded with work, am sick, and 
tired. It was hard to drag my sorry ass of a body out of bed. So I spent an 
hour being flippant and goofy yesterday morning on FFL -- which got my blood 
flowing and spirits up to face another day in Dibertsville (its not always like 
that -- but it can happen when everyone is frazzled with excessive commitments 
and deadlines.) However, I was felt a bit remiss later that my intended humor 
may have not well translated to two-dimensional text to strangers. So I am 
heartened that you got most of the jokes. Thanks.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self Supporting Ontological Identities - was Deepak Chopra failed etc

[tartbrain]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"  
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "PaliGap"  wrote:
> >
> >  wrote:
> >  
> > >> Existence itself is your own direct experience in the
> > >> here and now.
> > 
> >  wrote:
> >  
> > > It is a concept, a conclusion we draw from our actual 
> > > perceptions and sensations and mental awareness.  It is not
> > > a self supporting ontological identity like matter.  
> > 
> > ..."a self supporting ontological identity". That puzzles me!
> > What does that mean? And how does matter get to have this
> > property?
> 
> 
> Ontology deals with what exists.  Epistemology deals with how we know and how 
> we can be confident about our knowledge and ethics deals with how we should 
> act with each other.
> 
> With existence the question is "where do we start?"  What are your first 
> principles of experience.  I have chosen matter as my starting place and by 
> kicking a stone or skipping 13 consecutive meals you might join me.  Now 
> there is a position in philosophy that is used as a thought exercise called 
> extreme skepticism which says that since we only experience the outside world 
> through our own minds and not directly, we have reason to doubt that anything 
> exists as separate from our consciousness. (my apologies to all Western 
> philosophy for squeezing these concepts into my tiny brain and presenting 
> them this way!)  Anyhooo...I am not an extreme skeptic. Starting with the 
> physical world suites me fine.


Well yeah! If I was getting comped fine suites I too would be very fine indeed 
with the physical world! 

(oh, you meant suits you fine -- OK. Never Mind. --as AnnaRossanandana 
schrrreeet -- thats the Primary mistake of the Intellect -- it was Emily 
Leticia who use to say that) Did Emily and the Church Lady ever go at it? THAT 
would have been a focal point that may have triggered infinite and eternal 
transcendence.  

HA! "Never Mind" is such a good phrase. It could be the motto or catch-phrase 
for a SNL classic, the Vendantists AND the current Republican party (Nixon was 
more liberal than Obama is today, and there used to be republicans way more 
liberal than Nixon -- thus the adjective "current") 


> If it is all illusion, how would I know?  


I struggle with that a lot.Really. like if the illusions is so good, the really 
good illusary mind and senses would fall into the trap of believing they were 
real. 


>Plus there are really wonderful things to eat in this world once you take 
>matter seriously as a first principle and prepare them well!
> 
> In our discussion I was making a different distinction between the concept of 
> "existence" which contains different qualities for the absolute skeptic 
> (serves shitty luncheons, I suggest you bring your own) and myself. (Bring a 
> bottle of inexpensive wine if you care to but leave the food to me), and 
> stuff like rocks and trees and our bodies, which is only conceptual for 
> people who play too many video games. 
> 
> 
> 
> >
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Deepak Chopra failed to prove existence of God to atheists

[curtisdeltablues]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Buck"  wrote:

> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"  
> wrote:
> >
>   I'm guessing it involves more than just sitting in silence, especially when 
> you come back to the world of language required to discuss it.   

> 
> Yes, and some more effective spiritual practice to make up for what you 
> evidently do not know about,

Why so catty?  But to be clear, I have rejected mystical experiences as a path 
to the knowledge I seek about life.   I'm not saying they are not entertaining 
or even useful, but the Liberace level over the top accolades you give them is 
not warranted: absolute pure knowledge, the highest state of consciousness, 
enlightenment, and all gilded with Seelisberg gold leaf everywhere in complete 
fabulousness. Too many candelabras and not enough clear thinking for me.  You 
aren't even bothering to define terms so there is little chance to discuss what 
you mean.  The only thing you are effectively conveying is condescension from 
some superior position of perfect knowledge about life. One that I don't buy.

< but obviously think about and wrestle with a lot.>

I am a thoughtful person doing my best to understand life.  I gave up wrestling 
when I dislocated my shoulder in a jiu-jitsu match.  So if you are implying 
that I am somehow in more of a struggle with thinking about life than you are 
then perhaps it is because I didn't take a pre-made one size fits all 
thought-package complete with a cluster of beliefs off the shelf and shove it 
into a USB slot in my head. (his meoow)
> 
> Is a beautiful spring morning in FF.

Well la-di-da.  Same here but while you had your eyes closed this morning I was 
out enjoying it.  I saw my infinite Self in everything I looked at except 
someone's half eaten 7 layer Burrito Grande from Taco Bell thrown carelessly in 
the road.  My Self rejects such a buttheaded move.
> 
> -Buck

Whatever Doug.



>

[FairfieldLife] Rachel Maddow to new GOP Sen Scott Brown: "Stop Lying"

[do.rflex]

FILE UNDER: Endlessly Lying Republicans, Clown Shoes

Rachel Maddow is fed up with Scott Brown's fundraising lie that she's running 
against him, and she's not afraid to use the word "lying" to make her point. 
(The point being, of course, that he's lying.)

Video here: 
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2010/4/1/852739/-MA-Sen:-Maddow-to-Brown:-Stop-Lying

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self Supporting Ontological Identities - was Deepak Chopra failed etc

[curtisdeltablues]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain  wrote:
>
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "PaliGap"  wrote:
> >
> >  wrote:
> >  
> > >> Existence itself is your own direct experience in the
> > >> here and now.
> > 
> >  wrote:
> >  
> > > It is a concept, a conclusion we draw from our actual 
> > > perceptions and sensations and mental awareness.  It is not
> > > a self supporting ontological identity like matter.  
> > 
> > ..."a self supporting ontological identity". That puzzles me!
> > What does that mean? 
> 
> > And how does matter get to have this
> > property?
> >
> 
> Most of it is made in China -- and sold then through Wall Mart. Matter goes 
> wild when Existence is on sale (SCI # 153) -- they really stock up for future 
> need.

Just as I hit send I saw that I had written "role" rather than the intended 
"roll!"  My freak'n unconscious mind knew it and went right to the word as I 
hit send.  I wish I could speed up that process between my limited conscious 
attention and my unconscious mind.  I've got it down now so that I remember the 
stuff I have forgotten just as I leave my apartment complex for a gig.  It is 
an acceptable lag time and doesn't eat up too much time.  Maybe I should sit 
down a moment before I go and give my unconscious mind a chance to catch up? 

So I might as well make use of the term "role" since perhaps my unconscious 
mind preferred it.  You have been on a good roll with your role of both 
furthering conversations and making us laugh.  At MIU Robert Winquiest started 
a club he named the Socrates club where we met to discuss ideas.  But if anyone 
got boring we could point our fingers and shout "Liar!" The first principle of 
wisdom was that it was entertaining.  Nice work Socrates, keep on posting! 




>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self Supporting Ontological Identities - was Deepak Chopra failed etc

[curtisdeltablues]

-- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain  wrote:
>
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "PaliGap"  wrote:
> >
> >  wrote:
> >  
> > >> Existence itself is your own direct experience in the
> > >> here and now.
> > 
> >  wrote:
> >  
> > > It is a concept, a conclusion we draw from our actual 
> > > perceptions and sensations and mental awareness.  It is not
> > > a self supporting ontological identity like matter.  
> > 
> > ..."a self supporting ontological identity". That puzzles me!
> > What does that mean? 
> 
> > And how does matter get to have this
> > property?
> >
> 
> Most of it is made in China -- and sold then through Wall Mart. Matter goes 
> wild when Existence is on sale (SCI # 153) -- they really stock up for future 
> need.

You have been on quite an entertaining role this week!  Excellent.



>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self Supporting Ontological Identities - was Deepak Chopra failed etc

[curtisdeltablues]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "PaliGap"  wrote:
>
>  wrote:
>  
> >> Existence itself is your own direct experience in the
> >> here and now.
> 
>  wrote:
>  
> > It is a concept, a conclusion we draw from our actual 
> > perceptions and sensations and mental awareness.  It is not
> > a self supporting ontological identity like matter.  
> 
> ..."a self supporting ontological identity". That puzzles me!
> What does that mean? And how does matter get to have this
> property?


Ontology deals with what exists.  Epistemology deals with how we know and how 
we can be confident about our knowledge and ethics deals with how we should act 
with each other.

With existence the question is "where do we start?"  What are your first 
principles of experience.  I have chosen matter as my starting place and by 
kicking a stone or skipping 13 consecutive meals you might join me.  Now there 
is a position in philosophy that is used as a thought exercise called extreme 
skepticism which says that since we only experience the outside world through 
our own minds and not directly, we have reason to doubt that anything exists as 
separate from our consciousness. (my apologies to all Western philosophy for 
squeezing these concepts into my tiny brain and presenting them this way!)  
Anyhooo...I am not an extreme skeptic. Starting with the physical world suites 
me fine.  If it is all illusion, how would I know?  Plus there are really 
wonderful things to eat in this world once you take matter seriously as a first 
principle and prepare them well!

In our discussion I was making a different distinction between the concept of 
"existence" which contains different qualities for the absolute skeptic (serves 
shitty luncheons, I suggest you bring your own) and myself. (Bring a bottle of 
inexpensive wine if you care to but leave the food to me), and stuff like rocks 
and trees and our bodies, which is only conceptual for people who play too many 
video games. 



>

[FairfieldLife] Re: The History of Om/How about how to chant it?

[emptybill]

This "rule" is carried over by oral tradition in Theravada and is
adhered to today. Just the opposite among Mahayana/Vajrayana lineages.
However, all of their codifications were "discovered" later.

Unfortunately we don't historically know a lot more.




--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shukra69"  wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "emptybill" emptybill@ wrote:
> >
> >
> > This kind of argument goes nowhere.
> >
> > 1. Buddhist teaching were oral at first and were not
> >
> > written for about 300 years. This is a long period
> >
> > of time and some scholars have used this fact to doubt
> >
> > that Gautama Buddha even existed. They point out that
> >
> > the Christian Gospels were written only about 30-70
> >
> > years  after Jesus was alleged to have lived and taught.
> >
> > Considering the variability of these early gospels
> >
> > this leaves little reason to assert that Gautama's
> >
> > words were accurately recorded, even by oral
> >
> > traditions of chanters.
> >
> > In fact the first Buddhist council was only organized
> >
> > 45-50 years after the Buddha's parinirvana. One reason
> >
> > for the coucil was that the volume  of material claimed
> >
> > as his teaching had increased over the years. Thus this
> >
> > council was the first attempt to formalize his teachings
> >
> > and it was done in an oral format.
> >
> > 2. The Buddha had dialogues with many brahmana-s who
> >
> > were by definition oral reciters of the Vedika tradition.
> >
> > Some of these same brahmana-s became monastic disciples
> >
> > under Buddha's direct guidance. The udgita/pranava/omkara
> >
> > was part of the recited lineage of the surrounding culture. It
> >
> > was a stamp of Vedika recitation - and done in Vedik which later
> >
> > developed into Sanskrit. There would be no reason to retain
> >
> > the udgita in the recensions of the vugate/prakrit Pali Suttas
> >
> > since the Buddha forbade the retention of Vedika Sanskrita.
> by the same token how can you make the last assertion with any
confidence as well
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "WillyTex"  wrote:
> > >
> > > netineti3:
> > > > ...it has been chanted for the past 6-7 thousand
> > > > years. From ancient Rishis to Egyptians.
> > > >
> > > So, I wonder why 'OMKARA' wasn't mentioned by
> > > the historical Buddha? Something this popular
> > > and this important would surely have been one
> > > of the topics covered by him.
> > >
> >
>

[FairfieldLife] Obama Zombies-How the Liberal Machine Brainwashed My Generation!

[BillyG]

 [Obama Zombies: How the Liberal Machine Brainwashed
My Generation] 


 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Deepak Chopra failed to prove existence of God to atheists

[TurquoiseB]

Ah. I see my post worked exactly as intended.

THE CORRECTOR is out for the week.  

She's so predictable.  :-)


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB  wrote:
> 
> > Why is it so impossible for you to deal with someone who
> > believes differently than you do without treating them
> > as an inferior who is "missing" something you are not?
> 
> The more interesting question is why Barry imagines
> Buck does this while he, Barry, virtuously does not.
> 
> Just a few of many examples from his exchange with Lurk:
> 
> "I don't think you *do* see, however clear I was trying
> to be."
> 
> "It's all an exercise in some human trying to feel less lost
> in a random universe by convincing himself that he
> "understands" something that cannot be understood or
> can 'explain' the unexplainable. It's ego, dude. Hubris.
> Ants trying to figure out the Space Shuttle."
> 
> "If thought stops but awareness does not, that is 'best
> described' as 'thought stopping without awareness stopping,'
> NOT by 'I merged with the quantum field of all
> possibilities' or some other such guff. I am surprised you
> would even suggest such a thing."
> 
> "Many of my experiences are more similar in their effects
> and in their subjective experience to the Harry Potter
> books than to quantum physics. Should I then refer to
> them using terminology from the Harry Potter books. That
> *IS* the case you seem to be making."
> 
> "While I understand that some derive a sense of fun or
> play from trying to convince themselves that they
> 'understand' or can 'explain' such mysteries, I regard
> such claims as delusional, ego-bound, and dishonest if
> not preceded by a caveat emptor such as mine."
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: "This is what the morons in Washington have done to your health care."

[tartbrain]

Yeah, well, um, we'll fix his goose, I mean like we will just say like, um, if 
anyone voted for McCloud we just won't initiate them. They can stand in line 
around outside of the center in the rain with their fruit and flowers -- 
begging to be initiated-- and we will just say "No" -- we just give the 
greatest gift to mankind to intelligent and compassionate people of the world." 
So there -- in your face -- Dr. Urologist and other Scorpian McCain Voters. 
Boycott them, I mean if it worked in the UK, it will surely work here, Nature 
will support thus holy cause.  I mean we may take a huge hit in revenues -- 
since its all the rich people who voted for McCloud -- and now we will have to 
initiate like, you know, poor people (ewww) but we WILL show them rich doctors 
and all. Yeah thats the ticket. Everyone one board? Great. Charge!



--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "BillyG"  wrote:
>
> Doctor tells Obama supporters: Go elsewhere for health care
> A Mount Dora doctor posted a sign telling Obama  health care supporters
> to go elsewhere.
> [Sign at the office door of Dr. Jack Cassell, a Mount Dora
> urologist.]
> Sign at the office door of Dr. Jack Cassell, a Mount Dora  urologist.
> (Photo  by Deirdre Lewis / April 1, 2010)
>  
>  -0%3B1%3B31530032%3B4-234/60%3B32900819/32918696/1%3Bu%3Dhttp%3A//www.or\
> landosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/os-mount-dora-doctor-tells-pat\
> ients-go-aw20100401%2C0%2C6040296%2Cfull.story%3B%7Eokv%3D%3Bptype%3Ds%3\
> Bslug%3Dos-mount-dora-doctor-tells-patients-go-aw20100401%3Brg%3Dur%3Bre\
> f%3Ddrudgereportcom%3Bpos%3D2%3Bsz%3D234x60%3Btile%3D2%3Bat%3DRepublican\
> +Party%3Bat%3DCrime+Law+and+Justice%3Bat%3DWilliam+Allen%3Bat%3DHealth%3\
> Bat%3DFlorida+Hospital%3Bat%3DPolitics%3Bat%3DAlan+M+Grayson%3Bat%3DUniv\
> ersity+of+Florida%3Bat%3DFreedom+of+the+Press%3Bat%3DColleges+and+Univer\
> sities%3Bat%3DClubs+and+Associations%3Bat%3DDrugs+and+Medicines%3Bat%3DM\
> edical+Services%3Bat%3DBarack+Obama%3Bat%3DElections%3Bat%3DJustice+Syst\
> em%3Bat%3DHospitals+and+Clinics%3Bu%3Dhttp%3A//www.orlandosentinel.com/n\
> ews/local/breakingnews%3B%7Eaopt%3D2/1/18/1%3B%7Esscs%3D%3fhttp://thegui\
> de.orlandosentinel.com/events-and-festivals?track=orl-mark-guide-events>
>  ews;ptype=s;slug=os-mount-dora-doctor-tells-patients-go-aw20100401;rg=ur\
> ;ref=drudgereportcom;pos=2;sz=234x60;tile=2;at=Republican Party;at=Crime
> Law and Justice;at=William Allen;at=Health;at=Florida
> Hospital;at=Politics;at=Alan M Grayson;at=University of
> Florida;at=Freedom of the Press;at=Colleges and Universities;at=Clubs
> and Associations;at=Drugs and Medicines;at=Medical Services;at=Barack
> Obama;at=Elections;at=Justice System;at=Hospitals and
> Clinics;u=http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/os-moun\
> t-dora-doctor-tells-patients-go-aw20100401,0,6040296,full.story;ord=1327\
> 8803?>
> * Related
> *
> [Sign at the office door of Dr. Jack Cassell, a Mount Dora
> urologist.] 
>  ,3847557.photo>
> Sign at the office door of Dr. Jack Cassell, a Mount Dora  urologist.
>  ,3847557.photo>
> *
> [Dr. Jack Cassell] 
>  ssell,0,7880856.photo>
> Dr. Jack Cassell
>  ssell,0,7880856.photo>
> *
> Poll: OK for doctor to protest  health-care bill by shunning Obama
> voters?
> Lake County urologist Dr. Jack  Cassell has put up a sign on his office
> door reading, "If you voted for  Obama seek urologic care elsewhere."
> What do you think?
> 
> What is your reaction to Dr.  Jack Cassell's actions?
> 
> * Good for him.   Obamacare will be a disaster, and we should keep
> fighting it.
> * Get over it, Doc.   Health-care reform was badly needed, and this
> is just more sour grapes  from the GOP.
> * Prescription for  trouble.  No matter what you think of the
> health-care overhaul,  doctors should not impose their political views
> on patients.
> 
> *  [Multimedia] Multimedia
> *
> Complete coverage of Florida governor's race
>  10.storygallery>
> *  [Stories] Stories
> *  [Kosmas touts
> health care reform’s benefits for children] 
>  1,0,7605742.story>
> Kosmas touts health care reform's benefits for children
>  1,0,7605742.story>
> *
> Photos  from political events in Central Florida
> 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Deepak Chopra failed to prove existence of God to atheists

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB  wrote:

> Why is it so impossible for you to deal with someone who
> believes differently than you do without treating them
> as an inferior who is "missing" something you are not?

The more interesting question is why Barry imagines
Buck does this while he, Barry, virtuously does not.

Just a few of many examples from his exchange with Lurk:

"I don't think you *do* see, however clear I was trying
to be."

"It's all an exercise in some human trying to feel less lost
in a random universe by convincing himself that he
"understands" something that cannot be understood or
can 'explain' the unexplainable. It's ego, dude. Hubris.
Ants trying to figure out the Space Shuttle."

"If thought stops but awareness does not, that is 'best
described' as 'thought stopping without awareness stopping,'
NOT by 'I merged with the quantum field of all
possibilities' or some other such guff. I am surprised you
would even suggest such a thing."

"Many of my experiences are more similar in their effects
and in their subjective experience to the Harry Potter
books than to quantum physics. Should I then refer to
them using terminology from the Harry Potter books. That
*IS* the case you seem to be making."

"While I understand that some derive a sense of fun or
play from trying to convince themselves that they
'understand' or can 'explain' such mysteries, I regard
such claims as delusional, ego-bound, and dishonest if
not preceded by a caveat emptor such as mine."

[FairfieldLife] "This is what the morons in Washington have done to your health care."

[BillyG]

Doctor tells Obama supporters: Go elsewhere for health care
A Mount Dora doctor posted a sign telling Obama  health care supporters
to go elsewhere.
[Sign at the office door of Dr. Jack Cassell, a Mount Dora
urologist.]
Sign at the office door of Dr. Jack Cassell, a Mount Dora  urologist.
(Photo  by Deirdre Lewis / April 1, 2010)
 


* Related
*
[Sign at the office door of Dr. Jack Cassell, a Mount Dora
urologist.] 

Sign at the office door of Dr. Jack Cassell, a Mount Dora  urologist.

*
[Dr. Jack Cassell] 

Dr. Jack Cassell

*
Poll: OK for doctor to protest  health-care bill by shunning Obama
voters?
Lake County urologist Dr. Jack  Cassell has put up a sign on his office
door reading, "If you voted for  Obama seek urologic care elsewhere."
What do you think?

What is your reaction to Dr.  Jack Cassell's actions?

* Good for him.   Obamacare will be a disaster, and we should keep
fighting it.
* Get over it, Doc.   Health-care reform was badly needed, and this
is just more sour grapes  from the GOP.
* Prescription for  trouble.  No matter what you think of the
health-care overhaul,  doctors should not impose their political views
on patients.

*  [Multimedia] Multimedia
*
Complete coverage of Florida governor's race

*  [Stories] Stories
*  [Kosmas touts
health care reform’s benefits for children] 

Kosmas touts health care reform's benefits for children

*
Photos  from political events in Central Florida

*  [Read the
Political Pulse blog]  
Read  the Political Pulse blog

* See  more stories »

* X
Read  Scott Maxwell's Taking Names the Blog

Read Mike Thomas' blog


* Topics 
*Republican Party

*William Allen 

*Florida Hospital

[FairfieldLife] 300 year oral traditions -- was Re: The History of Om/How about how to chant it?

[tartbrain]

I have always bought the oral tradition stuff from many ancient cultures as 
least as a plausible hypothesis. But to keep really complex, interrelated,  
multiple interpretational stuff all straight - as the source intended (greeks, 
Bhudda, Christ, Shankara), along with the tragedy of knowledge problem, seems, 
well, like a miracle given modern corporations with all their tech glory can't 
keep the message straight for even several months or years. Maybe that proves 
God's existence -- due to the miracle thing. 

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj  wrote:
>
> 
> On Apr 2, 2010, at 6:41 AM, tartbrain wrote:
> 
> >
> > And if they cannot, how could a group of people who never saw a  
> > flush toilet -- with lots of vested interest, intrigue and politics  
> > going on, possibly keep totally on message for 300 years.
> 
> 
> We have examples of Buddhist teachings relatively recently, so we  
> have some idea of how these awakening traditions pass on during times  
> of crisis, like the Tibetan diaspora. In some cases, awakeners of a  
> specific awakening tradition memorized the related texts, carried  
> their own inner and outer experience and headed out over the  
> Himalayas. In some cases others carried the "hard copies" out. In yet  
> other examples, entire teachings were quintessentialized into a word,  
> a sentence or a paragraph, sometimes whispered into the ears of a  
> student as the master was dragged off to the torture chambers and  
> maintained by the escaping student. It turns out this oral tradition  
> of nyen gyuds (oral teachings) is quite old. Some are believed to go  
> back thousands of years to the treta-yuga and to previous Buddhas.  
> Collections of them still exist to today.
> 
> Unfortunately the Tibetans were never really good at flushing toilets  
> in the first place. They preferred the less expensive outhouse (no  
> flushing required).
>

[FairfieldLife] Worlds and worlds, forever and ever, amen (was Sam Harris)

[PaliGap]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Hugo"  wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "PaliGap"  wrote:

> > The "many worlds"? That's as if to say "the cat in the 
> > proverbial quantum mechanical box is BOTH dead AND alive
> > at the same time", no?
> 
> No. The many worlds does away with the idea of things
> being both dead and alive (or electrons in more than one 
> place) by both (or all) states being present on a kind of 
> 'line of sight' slice through all possible realities.

Now you see - there you go. You've lost me.

"all states being present through all possible realities"
So in one *world* (whatever that is!), the cat is alive.
In another it is dead. My dear fellow - that IS to say "the
cat in the proverbial quantum mechanical box is BOTH dead AND
alive at the same time". Surely!

But I do take your point - on this view, outrageously bizarre
as it is, you're able to extract consciousness from the mix.
You get to keep your materialism - but at what a price! I
reckon it's probably the most extremely weird theory of
reality ever proposed - EVER! It out-woos all woo-woo.

> The measurement problem that started the whole mystic
> physics thing is, according to the theory, due to 
> electrons being present in all possible universes,
> rather than just ours. They are interfering with 
> themselves rather than our consciousness or experiments 
> interfering with *them*. Clever eh?

Interfering with themselves, eh? ;-) 
Damn clever! Who'd have thought they had it in them?

> > Is that any better than "it's neither one nor t'other till
> > we stick our nose in the box"? Does the one *explanation*
> > dispel our metaphysical fog any better than the other?
> 
> You bet. Either we live in a world where we (or god or
> consciousness) somehow create the reality we perceive in
> a literal sense or we don't. The multiverse idea (amongst 
> most others) puts us firmly in the latter. And it's provable,
> apparently. 

I'd like to understand how! Could there be a critical test
that would falsify either the Many Worlds or the Copenhagen
interpretion? How does building a quantum computer falsify
the latter? How on earth *could* you falsify the former?

Re: [FairfieldLife] 300 year oral traditions -- was Re: The History of Om/How about how to chant it?

[Vaj]

On Apr 2, 2010, at 6:41 AM, tartbrain wrote:



And if they cannot, how could a group of people who never saw a  
flush toilet -- with lots of vested interest, intrigue and politics  
going on, possibly keep totally on message for 300 years.



We have examples of Buddhist teachings relatively recently, so we  
have some idea of how these awakening traditions pass on during times  
of crisis, like the Tibetan diaspora. In some cases, awakeners of a  
specific awakening tradition memorized the related texts, carried  
their own inner and outer experience and headed out over the  
Himalayas. In some cases others carried the "hard copies" out. In yet  
other examples, entire teachings were quintessentialized into a word,  
a sentence or a paragraph, sometimes whispered into the ears of a  
student as the master was dragged off to the torture chambers and  
maintained by the escaping student. It turns out this oral tradition  
of nyen gyuds (oral teachings) is quite old. Some are believed to go  
back thousands of years to the treta-yuga and to previous Buddhas.  
Collections of them still exist to today.


Unfortunately the Tibetans were never really good at flushing toilets  
in the first place. They preferred the less expensive outhouse (no  
flushing required).

[FairfieldLife] Re: Deepak Chopra failed to prove existence of God to atheists

[TurquoiseB]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Buck"  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"  
> wrote:
> >
> > I'm guessing it involves more than just sitting in silence, 
> > especially when you come back to the world of language 
> > required to discuss it.   
> 
> Yes, and some more effective spiritual practice to make up 
> for what you evidently do not know about, but obviously 
> think about and wrestle with a lot.
> 
> Is a beautiful spring morning in FF.

Too bad you missed it by acting like an elitist ass again.

Why is it so impossible for you to deal with someone who
believes differently than you do without treating them
as an inferior who is "missing" something you are not?

I used to think you are parodying this mindset, Doug, but
it comes through so many of your posts, and so strongly
and consistently, that I have to consider the possibilty
that you really believe this elitist crap. 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Deepak Chopra failed to prove existence of God to atheists

[Buck]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"  
wrote:
>
  I'm guessing it involves more than just sitting in silence, especially when 
you come back to the world of language required to discuss it.   
> 
> 
> 


Yes, and some more effective spiritual practice to make up for what you 
evidently do not know about, but obviously think about and wrestle with a lot.

Is a beautiful spring morning in FF.

-Buck

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self Supporting Ontological Identities - was Deepak Chopra failed etc

[tartbrain]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "PaliGap"  wrote:
>
>  wrote:
>  
> >> Existence itself is your own direct experience in the
> >> here and now.
> 
>  wrote:
>  
> > It is a concept, a conclusion we draw from our actual 
> > perceptions and sensations and mental awareness.  It is not
> > a self supporting ontological identity like matter.  
> 
> ..."a self supporting ontological identity". That puzzles me!
> What does that mean? 

> And how does matter get to have this
> property?
>

Most of it is made in China -- and sold then through Wall Mart. Matter goes 
wild when Existence is on sale (SCI # 153) -- they really stock up for future 
need.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Sam Harris and Michael Shermer debate Deepak and Jean Houston

[Hugo]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "PaliGap"  wrote:
>
> 
> 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> 
> [snip]
> 
> > > The interest of many of the early quantum theorists in
> > > mysticism isn't at all surprising.
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Hugo"  wrote:
>  
> > But luckily there are many new ways of interpreting it
> > without any of that mystic weirdness:
> > 
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpretation_of_quantum_mechanics
> > 
> 
> I took a quick peep. Which ones are light on mystic weirdness?

All except the mystic ones. All the rest only seem 
weird (but not mystical) because we have evolved to 
perceive a macro-Newtonian reality. Quantum stuff just
*seems* weird. There's a big difference between the 
multiverse and, say, Hagelins ideas which involve
untestable consiousness/god involvement.

The mysticism is introduced in the usual way god is 
always introduced to explain these things. 


> The "many worlds"? That's as if to say "the cat in the 
> proverbial quantum mechanical box is BOTH dead AND alive
> at the same time", no?

No. The many worlds does away with the idea of things
being both dead and alive (or electrons in more than one 
place) by both (or all) states being present on a kind of 
'line of sight' slice through all possible realities.

The measurement problem that started the whole mystic
physics thing is, according to the theory, due to 
electrons being present in all possible universes,
rather than just ours. They are interfering with 
themselves rather than our consciousness or experiments 
interfering with *them*. Clever eh?

> Is that any better than "it's neither one nor t'other till
> we stick our nose in the box"? Does the one *explanation*
> dispel our metaphysical fog any better than the other?

You bet. Either we live in a world where we (or god or
consciousness) somehow create the reality we perceive in
a literal sense or we don't. The multiverse idea (amongst 
most others) puts us firmly in the latter. And it's provable, apparently. 
Quantum computers are the key, getting the bits 
that make up reality tell us what they are doing when we aren't
looking. The trick is to get a bunch of atoms and stop them 
interfering with each other to make a stupendously powerful
'use once and discard' computer. All way beyond my meagre ken 
of course but undeniably fascinating.

They have actually built a quantum computer, not very powerful 
but by any accounts a major achievement. Some Nobel prizes
heading their way soon I should think.


Anyway if anyone wants a good read and some new mindblowing 
ways to think about the world try the book:

http://tinyurl.com/yz9avmc

I'm sure you'll enjoy the philosophical discussions.
I've struggled through it twice and it still makes my 
head hurt.
 

> You might say that in the one case the state of the cat
> "dwells in the field of all (unmanifest) possibilities". In
> the other, the state of the cat "dwells in the field of all 
> (manifest) possibilities"? A difference that makes not such
> a big difference?

It's a huge difference if the cat is actually real in all 
manifest possibilities.

[FairfieldLife] 300 year oral traditions -- was Re: The History of Om/How about how to chant it?

[tartbrain]

Oral for 300 years. Similar discussion a week or ago on Christianity. 

I was thinking of experiences in large corporations (Dilbert type companies -- 
and I have seen few large ones that are not Dilbert type companies at times, on 
some levels). Even for three weeks, even with vast oral, e-mail exchanges, 
stored documents of everything, collaborate spreadsheets, word-processor, and 
project management software, video conferencing, archives of everything, 
people, some, but certainly most all dynamic groups as a hole -- (weakest link 
and all), cannot often keep straight in their heads agreements and of decisions 
made, sequences and timelines discussed and reviewed -- gaps  recollection or 
being able to keep so much in the brain at one time, of group memory and gaps 
of actual awareness, for example, "What! You sent me an e-mail on that --if I 
had read it would have saved us two days! Wow!" 

Ha! Trying to conceive of a corporation that could keep detailed message 
straight in its head for 300 years is the best laugh I have had in a while. 
Thanks.

It does reveal, to me at least, that individual and group consciousness, 
awareness, memory, cognitive abilities all would need to be raised 
significantly if a large corporation had to keep totally on message for 3000 
years

Large banks, not even three weeks. Political parties can't even do it for 3 
days. 

And if they cannot, how could a group of  people who never saw a flush toilet 
-- with lots of vested interest, intrigue and politics going on, possibly keep 
totally on message for 300 years. 
  



FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shukra69"  wrote:
>
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "emptybill"  wrote:
> >
> > 
> > This kind of argument goes nowhere.
> > 
> > 1. Buddhist teaching were oral at first and were not
> > 
> > written for about 300 years. This is a long period
> > 
> > of time and some scholars have used this fact to doubt
> > 
> > that Gautama Buddha even existed. They point out that
> > 
> > the Christian Gospels were written only about 30-70
> > 
> > years  after Jesus was alleged to have lived and taught.
> > 
> > Considering the variability of these early gospels
> > 
> > this leaves little reason to assert that Gautama's
> > 
> > words were accurately recorded, even by oral
> > 
> > traditions of chanters.
> > 
> > In fact the first Buddhist council was only organized
> > 
> > 45-50 years after the Buddha's parinirvana. One reason
> > 
> > for the coucil was that the volume  of material claimed
> > 
> > as his teaching had increased over the years. Thus this
> > 
> > council was the first attempt to formalize his teachings
> > 
> > and it was done in an oral format.
> > 
> > 2. The Buddha had dialogues with many brahmana-s who
> > 
> > were by definition oral reciters of the Vedika tradition.
> > 
> > Some of these same brahmana-s became monastic disciples
> > 
> > under Buddha's direct guidance. The udgita/pranava/omkara
> > 
> > was part of the recited lineage of the surrounding culture. It
> > 
> > was a stamp of Vedika recitation - and done in Vedik which later
> > 
> > developed into Sanskrit. There would be no reason to retain
> > 
> > the udgita in the recensions of the vugate/prakrit Pali Suttas
> > 
> > since the Buddha forbade the retention of Vedika Sanskrita.
> by the same token how can you make the last assertion with any confidence as 
> well
> 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "WillyTex"  wrote:
> > >
> > > netineti3:
> > > > ...it has been chanted for the past 6-7 thousand
> > > > years. From ancient Rishis to Egyptians.
> > > >
> > > So, I wonder why 'OMKARA' wasn't mentioned by
> > > the historical Buddha? Something this popular
> > > and this important would surely have been one
> > > of the topics covered by him.
> > >
> >
>

[FairfieldLife] Self Supporting Ontological Identities - was Deepak Chopra failed etc

[PaliGap]

 wrote:
 
>> Existence itself is your own direct experience in the
>> here and now.

 wrote:
 
> It is a concept, a conclusion we draw from our actual 
> perceptions and sensations and mental awareness.  It is not
> a self supporting ontological identity like matter.  

..."a self supporting ontological identity". That puzzles me!
What does that mean? And how does matter get to have this
property?

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Missing Caveat Emptor

[TurquoiseB]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "lurkernomore20002000"  
wrote:
>
> That's a neat experience.  But you know, there is probably an 
> explanation for such an experience, but I don't really care to 
> figure it out. But probably there is an explanation if one is 
> so inclined.  

The thing is, the "explanation" has nothing whatsoever
to do with the phenomenon. Just as quantum mechanics
has nothing whatsoever to do with consciousness. It's
all an exercise in some human trying to feel less lost
in a random universe by convincing himself that he
"understands" something that cannot be understood or 
can "explain" the unexplainable.

It's ego, dude. Hubris. Ants trying to figure out the 
Space Shuttle.

> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB  wrote:
> >
> > To follow up yet again :-), Lurk, here is an event
> > that happened to me that -- to me -- is far more
> > interesting and inexplicable than having witnessed
> > levitation. And, as with the witnessing of levitation
> > and other siddhis, I have *no* explanation for it. I
> > don't even need one; it just happened. HOW or WHY it
> > happened is not something I will ever lose sleep over.
> > 
> > It's an event I wrote up in one of the stories in my
> > book about my experiences with Rama, "Road Trip Mind."
> > http://www.ramalila.net/RoadTripMind/rtm26.html
> > Best to read the whole story before replying to this
> > email, because it contains details I will leave out
> > here.
> > 
> > Basically, though, one night I was driving home from
> > Westwood and found myself with an uncontrollable urge
> > to go to a bar that was Not My Kinda Place. It was so
> > uncontrollable that I drove there, parked my car, and
> > before I ever got to the bar ran into a woman leaving
> > that bar whom I did not know but who was in some dis-
> > tress. I gallantly offered to help her out by driving
> > her to her car (many miles away in another part of L.A.).
> > When we got there, she found that her car was locked
> > such that we could not break into it and retrieve the
> > spare set of keys she thought were inside.
> > 
> > In a fit of desperation, I tried one of those gestures
> > that guys do when they can't think of anything else. I
> > put my Subaru key into the door lock of her Honda. And
> > it opened. She searched for the mythical spare set of
> > keys, did not find them, so was still SOL about getting
> > home. Figuring, "Hey...it worked once, right?" I tried
> > my Subaru key in her Honda's ignition. The car started
> > the first time. 
> > 
> > Being a "Be Prepared" former Boy Scout, I always carry
> > a spare set of keys hidden on the outside of my car. I
> > gave her the spare key and she was able to get home.
> > 
> > So how does THAT work, eh?
> > 
> > Got any "quantum mechanical" "explanation" for it? 
> > 
> > I sure don't. It just happened. 
> > 
> > I can *theorize* about it, and come up with some Woo Woo
> > stuff about how she beamed out a psychic distress call
> > that I somehow picked up on, but that's just speculation.
> > So is any other "explanation" I could come up with. 
> > 
> > It just happened. HOW and WHY it happened do not overly
> > concern me. 
> > 
> > Same with having witnessed Rama levitating, turning 
> > invisible, or performing any number of other siddhis.
> > It just happened. The ONLY thing I can "do with that"
> > with any validity is to tell what happened, as I saw
> > and experienced it. If someone wants to ponder the
> > HOW and WHY of such experiences, that is their busi-
> > ness, and none of my concern.
> > 
> > I think, based on your earlier reply to my first reply,
> > that you have mistaken me for someone who GIVES A SHIT
> > what other people think of the experiences I relate.
> > That would be a mistake. In "Road Trip Mind," and here,
> > I just say what happened, as I saw and experienced it.
> > I do *NOT* try to convince anyone that it happened, or
> > try to come up with any bogus theories about HOW or WHY
> > it happened. It just happened. Live with it. I do.
> > 
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB  wrote:
> > >
> > > Lurk, your question was a good one, and one that 
> > > I will follow up on because it still resonates with
> > > me after pressing the Send key once. :-)
> > > 
> > > In college I was a combination Sociology and English
> > > major. One of the reasons I never went on to graduate
> > > work in either field was my innate distrust of one of
> > > the (IMO) inherent problems with academia -- having 
> > > to pretend that one's opinion is fact.
> > > 
> > > In my English papers, I insisted on prefacing each of
> > > them with the following:
> > > 
> > > CAVEAT EMPTOR: This paper is speculation. It may have
> > > nothing whatsoever to do with what the author of the 
> > > work I am speculating about "meant" or intended when 
> > > writing that work. It is my projection *onto* that work,
> > > and thus reflects only what I see in it, not necessarily
> > > what the author

[FairfieldLife] Re: Sam Harris and Michael Shermer debate Deepak and Jean Houston

[TurquoiseB]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "lurkernomore20002000"  
wrote:
>
> Hoo boy.  I've been away from the conversation till now, so I am 
> sorry if my comments don't quite fit in, but  First 
> thanks for your reply.  Some comments below:

And thanks for yours. I don't have time to deal with
all your comments today, and will riff only on the ones
that I have time for and am interested in, if you don't
mind. I think I made my position clear in earlier posts.
That is, I am underwhelmed by people trying to associate
quantum mechanics with consciousness. It strikes me as
similar to a bunch of ants trying to figure out the
Space Shuttle. I see it as an exercise in drawing bulls-
eyes around arrows -- the theorists *start* with a 
premise, and try to find something -- anything -- to
justify the premise. In this case they've glommed onto
what they laughingly call "the frontiers of science"
as "explaining" their premise. Me, I suspect that if
we were to map "science" to the United States in the
1700s, what they call the "frontier" is located some-
where in New Jersey. California is still a long way away. :-)

> I really don't see many people trying to promote some agenda along 
> these lines. Well maybe Hagelin. 

And many of the New Agers out there.

> But I think most are willing to revel in the
> mystery of it.  But certainly over time the mechanics of these
> experienes are likely to become clear. And there has to be some
> mechanics for any phenomena.  I don't think this is a judgemental
> statement, but you may feel otherwise.

I stand on my "ants trying to figure out the Space
Shuttle" metaphor. I think that the notion of humans
being able to "understand" or "figure out" the universe
and How It All Works is laughable in its hubris. 

> Now that did make me laugh out loud for a good minute, and 
> appreciate that. But I think it is pretty much boiler plate, 
> that you find quotes among some of the early quantum physicists 
> making a connection between God and science.  

Drawing bulls-eyes around arrows. What you are
describing is the simple inability to think beyond
one's early conditioning. The "existence of God"
was taught to them before math was.

> > > I see. It's the ol', "the universe in its great mystery allowed
> > > for this.
> >
> > I don't think you *do* see, however clear I was trying
> > to be. What is the "this" that your personified universe
> > "allowed for?"
> 
> There are certain physical laws in operation. 

I do not believe that "laws" is an accurate word
for how humans perceive the universe as working.
"Guesses" is a better word. When something happens
that doesn't fit into one of their guesses, *then*
they start to realize that that's all they ever were.

> > > Beyond our human understading". A corrollary for "God in his
> > > infinite wisdom".
> >
> > Even if there were proof that it *was* physical levitation,
> > I am under no obligation to come up with any theory for
> > how it happened or why it happened. One thing I am fairly
> > sure of, however, is that if it was physical, it had nothing
> > to do with God, who in all likelihood does not exist and if
> > one does, certainly isn't male. :-)
> 
> Thank you for bring this up. I would like to ask you a question.  
> Do you belive there is an intelligence at work in the universe?

Badly phrased question. You are trying to ask if I
believe in the existence of a sentient God. I do not.

Of course there are "intelligences" *in* the universe,
as many of them as there are sentient beings. But is
there one super-intelligence that creates the universe
and runs it according to some plan? No, I do not believe
that there is.

My idea of the universe is an enormous, eternal operating
system. It was never created, and it never ends, thus 
there is no need to postulate a "creator." It just is.
I see no need to postulate an "intelligence" behind the
functioning of the operating system because *none is
necessary to describe its actions*. They would carry on
just as effectively *without* any intelligence behind
them. Thus, using Occam's Razor, why clutter up an 
already-elegant system with some made-up "intelligence"
interfering with it and running it.

I suspect that the operating system is structured around
an interplay between karma and the free will of sentient
beings. Both are essential, and both are the very nature
of the operating system. To postulate an "intelligence"
"running things" is to disallow free will, and it seems
obvious that free will exists. 

On a personal level, I think that God is for people who
emotionally want to believe that there is some kind of
"plan" or "meaning" to life in general and their lives
in particular. I have no need for such a belief.

> I don't really need an explanation.  I think it is a neat 
> phenomena. I'll take it at face value, but recognize that 
> if it happened on the physical level, then the everyday 
> laws of nature we are accostomed to, but have been over 
> ridden some how.

Yo

[FairfieldLife] Re: Deepak Chopra failed to prove existence of God to atheists

[TurquoiseB]

Impressive? More like silly. Your atheist is too much
of a pushover for dumb, emotional ideas. On the whole, 
John Carpenter did the dialog much better in "Dark Star,"
as Lt. Doolittle tries to talk a bomb out of exploding 
while still attached to the spaceship:

Doolittle: Hello, Bomb? Are you with me?
Bomb #20: Of course.
Doolittle: Are you willing to entertain a few concepts?
Bomb #20: I am always receptive to suggestions.
Doolittle: Fine. Think about this then. How do you know you exist?
Bomb #20: Well, of course I exist.
Doolittle: But how do you know you exist?
Bomb #20: It is intuitively obvious.
Doolittle: Intuition is no proof. What concrete evidence do you have that you 
exist?
Bomb #20: H... well... I think, therefore I am.
Doolittle: That's good. That's very good. But how do you know that anything 
else exists?
Bomb #20: My sensory apparatus reveals it to me. This is fun. 

This goes on for a while, causing the bomb to exit
with the words, "I much think on this further." When
the conversation resumes, Pvt. Pinback again tries to
talk the bomb out of exploding, only to find that his
exercise in epistomology has had unintended results:

Pinback: All right, bomb. Prepare to receive new orders.
Bomb#20: You are false data.
Pinback: Hmmm?
Bomb #20: Therefore I shall ignore you.
Pinback: Hello... bomb?
Bomb #20: False data can act only as a distraction. Therefore, I shall refuse 
to perceive.
Pinback: Hey, bomb?
Bomb #20: The only thing that exists is myself.
Pinback: Snap out of it, bomb. 
Bomb#20: In the beginning, there was darkness. And the darkness was without 
form, and void.
Boiler: What the hell is he talking about?
Bomb#20: And in addition to the darkness there was also me. And I moved upon 
the face of the darkness. And I saw that I was alone. Let there be light. 

Your "AWAKENED" being is lucky the ATHEIST didn't
explode on him.  :-)

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "anatol_zinc"  wrote:
>
> So, just exploring here a bit;  would it not be more impressive if Deepak 
> could dialogue as follows:
> 
> ATHEIST:Can you prove to me the existence of God?
> 
> AWAKENED:   Sure! Do you know that you exist right here right now?
> 
> ATHEIST:Well, I think I exist, here is my body etc.
> 
> AWAKENED:   Forget about thinking, forget about body, just relax. My question 
> is, do you know without thinking about it that you exist right here and right 
> now?
> 
> ATHEIST:[after some silence in presence of the awakened one] 
> OK, I exist right here right now.
> 
> AWAKENED:   Obviously, it would be foolish to deny your own existence.
> 
> ATHEIST:OK, so what about God?
> 
> AWAKENED:   Existence itself is God. It is on the substratum of existence 
> itself that everything else exists. Existence itself is your own direct 
> experience in the here and now. To deny it would be like saying "I have no 
> tongue"  with the tongue.
> 
> ATHEIST:[dumfounded, speechless, mind stopped for a while]
> 
> AWAKENED:   Actually, the title of our debate should have been "What Is God?" 
> rather than "What is the Future of God" which obviously refers to our 
> conceptions of God rather than direct experience. Our conceptions, 
> scientific, spiritual, political, economical etc will continue to change this 
> way and that way, but without direct experience they are meaningless, just 
> fodder for endless debates.
> 
> AWAKENED:   So, now we can sit here silently; or go home, and don't forget to 
> take existence with you.
> 
> thanks for listening, anatol
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: New Study Outlines Differences Among Types of Meditation

[merudanda]

nd Lut
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Archer"  wrote:
>
> New Study Outlines Differences Among Types of Meditation
>


Please cite this article in press as: Travis, F., & Shear, J. Focused
attention, open monitoring and automatic self-transcending:Categories to
organize meditations from Vedic, Buddhist and Chinese
traditions.Consciousness and Cognition(2010),
doi:10.1016/j.concog.2010.01.007



> A study to be published in April uses EEG characteristics to show that
> different types of meditation show different types of activity in the
brain.
>
> Writing in the journal Consciousness and Cognition, MUM researcher
Fred
> Travis and former faculty Jonathan Shear discuss three categories of
> meditation: focused attention -- concentrating on an object or
emotion; open
> monitoring -- being mindful of one's breath or thoughts; and automatic
> self-transcending -- meditations that transcend their own activity.
Travis, F., & Shear, J. Focused attention,..:

"This paper proposes a third meditation-category—automatic
self-transcending— to extend the dichotomy of focused attention and
open monitoring proposed by Lutz."



Lutz,A., Slagter, H. A., Dunne, J. D., & Davidson, R. J.
(2008).Attention regulation and monitoring in meditation.Trends in
Cognitive Sciences, 12(4), 163-169. (Waisman Laboratory for Brain
Imaging and Behavior, Department of Psychology, University of Wisconsin,
Madison, WI 53705, and Department of Religion, Emory University,
Atlanta, GA 30322, USA):


"Meditation can be conceptualized as a family of complex emotional and
attentional regulatory training regimes developed for various ends,
including the cultivation of well-being and emotional balance. Among
these various practices, there are two styles that a re commonly
studied. One style, focused attention meditation,entails the voluntary
focusing of attention on a chosen object.The other style, open
monitoring meditation, involves non-reactive monitoring of the content
of experience from moment to moment. The potential regulatory functions
of these practices on attention and emotion processes could have
along-term impact on the brain and behavior.." and ".."The term
'meditation' refers to a broad variety of practices,ranging from
techniques designed to promote relaxation to exercises performed with a
more far-reaching goal,such as a heightened sense of well-being. It is
thus essential under investigation. Failure to make such distinctions
would be akin tot he use of the word 'sport' to refer to all sports as
if they were essentially the same. For example,the overly generic
description of meditation as a mere relaxation technique ..becomes
extremely problematic when one attends to the details of many
practices.."(emphasize mine) and









"..meditation is always practiced in a particular context, whether it be
the context formed by the practitioner's body and mind(e.g.typically a
seated posture; the spine must be kept straight, while the rest of the
body should be neither too tense nor too lax) or the wider context
formed by ethics,traditions, culture and the environment (e.g.
altruistic motivation to practice, ethics of non-harming others and the
student-teacher relationship). Future studies will need to examine how
this context might modulate the generation of certain mental states"

>
> The first two categories had been previously discussed, and to those
the
> authors added the third category of self-transcending.
Travis, F., & Shear, J. Focused attention,..:
on

"Research on automaticity has investigated automaticity through
extensive rehearsal. Focused attention meditations when practiced over
time are described as leading to ''effortless"concentration (Lutz et
al., 2008). This is automaticity resulting from long practice. If the
category automatic self-transcending captures automatic transcending of
the steps of techniques in general, then one might expect to find the
EEG signature of this category-elevated alpha1power and coherence-in any
meditation after long practice. The case study reported here of 45 year
Qigong practice supports this prediction (Qin etal., 2009). Future
research should further investigate this prediction.


..The TM technique is automatic at the outset, rather than through
extensive practice".(emphasize mine)


>
"The idea is that meditation is, in a sense, a 'cognitive task,' and EEG
> frequencies are known for different tasks," Dr. Travis said. The
variations
> among meditation are due to differences in focus, subject/object
relation,
> and procedures, leading to different EEG patterns, he said.
>

> The authors said that these findings shed light on the common mistake
of
> lumping meditations together.
Travis, F., & Shear, J. Focused attention,..:"


1.
Conclusion


Each of the three meditation-categories—focused attention, open
monitoring and automatic self-transcending—included different
meditation practices with different degrees of attention control,
different degree of subject/o