[FairfieldLife] Apostates
I hear our moderator, a TM apostate now, was up visiting one of the non-approved Indian saints up in Chicago. As one of FFL's biggest spammers and generally non-interactive complainer, he has been relatively silent now that he holds the moderator button. In particular with that complete lack of transparency as far as TuquoiseBee was concerned. The few glimpses he gave for reasons to press the delete button on him were absurdly implausible, considering things that have gotten by subsequently. I mean, if a single poster negatively impacts your view of spirituality, and you cannot stand up to that person while in the relative safety of online discourse, it only shows that whatever spirituality you have got is meaningless and in a practical sense, ineffective, and have a need to resort to secrecy and subterfuge to achieve ones goal. Spirituality, and most other disciplines are laced with all kinds of absurd beliefs which followers seem to have a need to maintain. Some of these absurd beliefs are temporary necessities on a spiritual path because they provide a soft landing for the passage of various experiences (TC, CC, GC, UC, experiences like that), but in the end they all go if you find what you were actually seeking. Yet it seems inevitable that spiritual teachings are adopted not because they are true, but because they provide an axe with which the human ego can justify its carnage in the world by acting as if those ridiculous statements about reality were true, hiding the doubts that surround such beliefs from itself. There is a certain humour in the human condition here, well stated by Andy Borowitz: MINNEAPOLIS (The Borowitz Report) – Scientists have discovered a powerful new strain of fact-resistant humans who are threatening the ability of Earth to sustain life, a sobering new study reports. The research, conducted by the University of Minnesota, identifies a virulent strain of humans who are virtually immune to any form of verifiable knowledge, leaving scientists at a loss as to how to combat them. 'These humans appear to have all the faculties necessary to receive and process information,' Davis Logsdon, one of the scientists who contributed to the study, said. 'And yet, somehow, they have developed defenses that, for all intents and purposes, have rendered those faculties totally inactive.' More worryingly, Logsdon said, 'As facts have multiplied, their defenses against those facts have only grown more powerful.' While scientists have no clear understanding of the mechanisms that prevent the fact-resistant humans from absorbing data, they theorize that the strain may have developed the ability to intercept and discard information en route from the auditory nerve to the brain. 'The normal functions of human consciousness have been completely nullified,' Logsdon said. While reaffirming the gloomy assessments of the study, Logsdon held out hope that the threat of fact-resistant humans could be mitigated in the future. 'Our research is very preliminary, but it’s possible that they will become more receptive to facts once they are in an environment without food, water, or oxygen,' he said.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: PROVIDER OF KNOWLEDGE
I have not been to the World Trade Center area since 2001. About three months
after the attack, I walked around the entire complex, which was boarded off,
except for the egress road where they were carting debris out of the area. An
endless stream of large trucks carrying beams and concrete and other rubble.
I recall flying (not me as pilot of course) within a couple of hundred feet of
the towers back in the 1980s in a small plane. And being up on the observation
deck of one of the towers, maybe in 1979.
Security in the city varies depending on assessed threat level.
How is St. Pat's, I have not been in there for a while, is the scaffolding on
the inside finally gone? Sometime I meditate in Cathedrals. There is another
called St. Mary's just off Times Square and it seems a bit quieter. I am of
course not Catholic, I am blissfully non-theistic, invading the sacred spaces
of the reality challenged.
On Sunday, July 5, 2015 4:32 PM, "steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]"
wrote:
Xeno, thank you for your detailed response.
I enjoyed every minute of it!
Oh, a little follow up on Bhairitu's comment about high security in NYC.
As I met my wife and daughter after they attended Mass at St. Patrick's
Cathedral ,there was a heavy police presence,. They were with armed semi, or
fully automatic assault rifles and other gear. So, that was interesting.
Also, the two Memorial Pools at the 9-11 site, marking the location of the two
towers, was very impressive, IMO.
Everything to do with the memorial was controversial including the memorials,
but I found them to be rather perfect.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :
Thanks for the invitation, but I have other obligations.
I deleted my post as I tend not to have any photos I have taken remain on the
Internet in a public space for very long. I live about a 60 mile drive out of
the City, and tend to avoid going into the City unless I have to. Normally I
drive to the Metro North Train Station in Brewster (and at my age the round
trip costs about $18.50), which actually costs less that the total cost of
driving, though it takes longer. Parking is expensive in New York unless you
hunt around. I have medical appointments on Monday. As I get older these
appointments seem to be increasing in frequency.
My vehicle is about 15 years old and I need to take it in for repairs, the
exhaust system needs patching (I hope) as there are some holes in it and my SO
is complaining about fumes, she is very sensitive to industrial fumes even
though she thinks nothing of asphyxiating me with smoke particles from incense.
The Cloisters was interesting. That day I was there, I went with a local photo
club. The museum gave me temporary permission to use a tripod so I was able to
get shots in darker areas until my camera died. I used my SO's camera for the
rest of the day. I think that camera died a few months later too.
Once again thanks for the invite, but it takes a lot of pressure to get me to
go into New York City. If I go in more than two or three times a year, it's
unusual.
-
From: "steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife]"
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, July 5, 2015 1:50 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: PROVIDER OF KNOWLEDGE
Xeno, I replied to a message you had posted here last night, but my reply
never showed up, and now I don't see your original message.
But I enjoyed your piece about The Cloisters, and wanted to invite you for
lunch at the Four Seasons, Pool Room tomorrow (Monday), at noon.
That may depend if our attire will permit us entrance, but if not we will dine
somewhere else.
We'll be a party of four, two adults, and two grown kids.
I know little about the Four Seasons other than hearing about it occasionally,
but I read that it may have to relocate, and that it had a wonderful atmosphere.
And me, being a sucker for "darshan", of any sort, I though,we'd make a splurge.
Hope you can make it, even with the last minute notice!
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :
Having located the source of our knowledge from India it turns out to be
DIKSHIT
Dikshit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
| |
| | Dikshit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Dikshit or Dikshitar
(/ˈdɪkʃɪt/) (Hindi: दीक्षित) is a Hindu family name. The word is an adjective
form of the Sanskrit word diksha, meaning provider of knowledge. Dikshit in
Sanskrit derives itself as a person involved in scientific studies, and
literally translates as "one ... | |
| View on en.wikipedia.org| Preview by Yahoo |
| |
This simple discovery solves a lot of problems with regard to technical and
intellectual difficulties anyone has encountered in the TM movement.
#yiv5904698409 #yiv5904698409 -- #yiv5904698409ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid
#d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;}#yiv5904698409
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: PROVIDER OF KNOWLEDGE
Thanks for the invitation, but I have other obligations.
I deleted my post as I tend not to have any photos I have taken remain on the
Internet in a public space for very long. I live about a 60 mile drive out of
the City, and tend to avoid going into the City unless I have to. Normally I
drive to the Metro North Train Station in Brewster (and at my age the round
trip costs about $18.50), which actually costs less that the total cost of
driving, though it takes longer. Parking is expensive in New York unless you
hunt around. I have medical appointments on Monday. As I get older these
appointments seem to be increasing in frequency.
My vehicle is about 15 years old and I need to take it in for repairs, the
exhaust system needs patching (I hope) as there are some holes in it and my SO
is complaining about fumes, she is very sensitive to industrial fumes even
though she thinks nothing of asphyxiating me with smoke particles from incense.
The Cloisters was interesting. That day I was there, I went with a local photo
club. The museum gave me temporary permission to use a tripod so I was able to
get shots in darker areas until my camera died. I used my SO's camera for the
rest of the day. I think that camera died a few months later too.
Once again thanks for the invite, but it takes a lot of pressure to get me to
go into New York City. If I go in more than two or three times a year, it's
unusual.
-
From: "steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]"
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, July 5, 2015 1:50 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: PROVIDER OF KNOWLEDGE
Xeno, I replied to a message you had posted here last night, but my reply
never showed up, and now I don't see your original message.
But I enjoyed your piece about The Cloisters, and wanted to invite you for
lunch at the Four Seasons, Pool Room tomorrow (Monday), at noon.
That may depend if our attire will permit us entrance, but if not we will dine
somewhere else.
We'll be a party of four, two adults, and two grown kids.
I know little about the Four Seasons other than hearing about it occasionally,
but I read that it may have to relocate, and that it had a wonderful atmosphere.
And me, being a sucker for "darshan", of any sort, I though,we'd make a splurge.
Hope you can make it, even with the last minute notice!
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :
Having located the source of our knowledge from India it turns out to be
DIKSHIT
Dikshit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
| |
| | Dikshit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Dikshit or Dikshitar
(/ˈdɪkʃɪt/) (Hindi: दीक्षित) is a Hindu family name. The word is an adjective
form of the Sanskrit word diksha, meaning provider of knowledge. Dikshit in
Sanskrit derives itself as a person involved in scientific studies, and
literally translates as "one ... | |
| View on en.wikipedia.org| Preview by Yahoo |
| |
This simple discovery solves a lot of problems with regard to technical and
intellectual difficulties anyone has encountered in the TM movement.
#yiv6755981892 #yiv6755981892 -- #yiv6755981892ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: We Were at this Place Today [1 Attachment]
The one time I was at the Cloisters, my camera died. I was photographing a
wooden statue of Jesus, and the camera's life came to an end, unrepairable.
What can you expect from a Jesus dummy. As the ticket also included the Met
museum as well, I went there next. I took an image of an Egyptian statue, some
tomb builder or something who lived several thousand years ago.
From: "steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]"
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, July 4, 2015 2:15 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: We Were at this Place Today
well, actually you go back in time.
017 | The Metropolitan Museum of Art
||
|| 017 | The Metropolitan Museum of Art Unicorn Tapestries||
| View on www.metmuseum.org |Preview by Yahoo|
||
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :
I had no idea that anything physically existed above Central Park.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :
We were at this place today.
Visit The Cloisters | The Metropolitan Museum of Art
| |
| | Visit The Cloisters | The Metropolitan Museum of Art The Cloisters
museum and gardens is the branch of The Metropolitan Museum of Art in northern
Manhattan devoted to the art and architecture of medieval Europe. | |
| View on www.metmuseum.org| Preview by Yahoo |
| |
Was gonna invite xeno to meet us for lunch one day up here in NYC, but guess
that ain't gonna happen.
Got some funny directions leaving the museum trying to find the subway,and we
ended up walking two miles along the freeway, looking down at the Hudson River,
before we finally found it.
Ain't a lot of green in NYC, but we had a nice stroll through Central Park.
Tired as hell, but we're gonna have some dindin, and check out Times Square.
Good Times! #yiv9462255586 #yiv9462255586 -- #yiv9462255586ygrp-mkp
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Can AI Machines Know Ethics?
Empty seems to be replying to the digest version of FFL. This does not supply a
means to duplicate the message you are responding to. To do that you have to
manually copy the content of the message and paste it into the response, which
otherwise starts as a blank slate with just the title of the thread. There is
no message history mechanism in the digest if you reply to the group via
e-mail. So to clue people into who you are talking to you have to do some
additional work. I simply ignore most messages that do not contain message
history in the reply.
From: salyavin808
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2015 6:25 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Can AI Machines Know Ethics?
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :
This msg was a reply to Duveyoung's post on the thread :
Can AI Machines Know Ethics?
Msg 8 of 11
June 27, 6:27pm
So you aren't going to click on "show message history"? It's a lot easier
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Uncle Tantra an enigma, a paradox (Reaffirming The Yahoo-Groups Guidelines)
From: "jason_gre...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]"
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2015 8:02 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Uncle Tantra an enigma, a paradox (Reaffirming
The Yahoo-Groups Guidelines)
Uncle Tantra was really a complex character.
One of the reasons you guy were so pissed with him is
because, he constantly brags about how fantastic his life
is, how much he is really enjoying is life, and how dull and
drab are the lives of other members of FFL.
A guy who is *really* enjoying his life will never brag to
others about his fantastic life, and such a person will also
never make fun of other peoples drab lives.
That is just a guess, it is certainly logically possible to have a fantastic
life and to talk about how fantastic it is.
Imagine Bill Gates coming to this forum and bragging how
rich he is and how poor we all are. You would certainly
think something is seriously wrong here.
Maybe, but Gates could prove he was richer than just about anyone else.
He was really a primadonna queen, treating this forum as his
personal blog. It ate up too much space. I warned him about
it on a few occasions, but it fell on deaf ears. He often
ranted about how well he is ignoring certain other people on
the forum. "ignore their sill asses, ignore their silly
asses" as he would say.
Barry has amazing philosophical talent and intellectual
talent. But as all immensely talented people have flaws, he
too had some.
These things don't change the fact, that I learnt a lot of
valuable things from him. I would be a churl if I denied
that.
I think he learnt most of his tacky-tawdry psychological
trickery, and a number of bad habits from that charlatan
Rama Lenz. I think it corrupted his soul, and he never
really got out of that strangle hold.
Barry also had a bright side. An amazing sense of humor. A
fine appreciation of music and movies. An excellent
understanding of both science and philosophy and how the two
fit together. Some of the conversations he had on the forum
are very memorable.
A 100 years in the future, if a historian does research on
the TM-movement, I am sure he would be mentioned in that.
--- Duveyoung wrote :
Judy said: (Goodness knows you don't have the integrity to retract it.)
Um, that's exactly the kind of trollery that the dearly departed perfected.
YOU'RE NOT A PSYCHIATRIST.
Posts at FFL are never enough to decide on someone's integrity.
Face it, Judy, you're still smacking back, instead of turning a cheek. Are you
really that victimized by anything anyone says here?
If you won this argument, if everyone but Curtis backed you up, even then, I
don't see you getting happier, but merely going on to the next issue with the
same 'tude. Is that a fair assumption on my part? Or have I just trolled you?
After all these years, with this new-life spurt here, why not give it a rest?
You're much bigger than these tiny shit barbs. Of course, I've made it harder
to suck it up, because I'm not a pal, and here am I giving therapeutic advice,
but it is what it is.
Heh, some of my most commonly recurring truth-concepts have been taught to me
by my enemies.I'm talking serious fucking enemies who left still deeply red
scars on my soulso I have to bat away thoughts about them when I dwell with
the truths they taught.
It just so sucks, eh?
Heh, gotta ask, "what's the actual risk of Doug?" Will he bounce others? I
don't think so. Look at this scurvy's crew's roiling bitching at each other
that's going on RIGHT NOW, and he's done nothing about that.
Maybe it was a vendetta against the trolls with "any reason" being enough. So?
Yeah, abusive. So?
I just don't see this kind of fascism happening again unless someone truly
rises to the troll heights -- which was a very high bar being set. Doug
chided me about swearing, but nothing since even though I still swear -- this
shows his, um, forbearance?
Bah, I'm just happy I can post here again without really having to steel myself
for the barbs. Short sighted of me, but there it is. If there is a Sword of
Damocles, it's a heavy chain holding it up.
More than you know, Bro. If anything, all I can do is excuse myself is say,
"I'm still giddy with all the new-found freedom here." But, too, yes, I do
sincerely get it that you and Turq had a robust and decent relationship here at
FFL that often served our needs. Sorry for your loss. Hey, ask Turq to tell
you where else he's posting about spiritual stuff -- maybe you guys can tag
team there!
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Reaffirming The Yahoo-Groups Guidelines
From: Duveyoung
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2015 2:27 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Reaffirming The Yahoo-Groups Guidelines
Heh, gotta ask, "what's the actual risk of Doug?" Will he bounce others?
I don't think so. Look at this scurvy's crew's roiling bitching at each other
that's going on RIGHT NOW, and he's done nothing about that.
Maybe it was a vendetta against the trolls with "any reason" being enough. So?
Yeah, abusive. So?
I just don't see this kind of fascism happening again unless someone truly
rises to the troll heights -- which was a very high bar being set. Doug
chided me about swearing, but nothing since even though I still swear -- this
shows his, um, forbearance?
Bah, I'm just happy I can post here again without really having to steel myself
for the barbs. Short sighted of me, but there it is. If there is a Sword of
Damocles, it's a heavy chain holding it up.Why do you have to steel yourself
against the barbs? Why not let them just pass by like the wind. They are not
going to knock you over.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :
Me: You just saved me some typing time. Excellent, thank you.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :
But the spirit of FFL was far more interesting than this drivel, and in 10
years Yahoo never made any attempt to change or alter what happened on FFL,
Yahoo really does not care what happens in their groups unless it somehow
affects them financially. You are also incorrect in using the term
re-moderation. This group was moderated, with a light and just hand that
allowed far more than now, true freedom of speech.
Your lack of transparency in the issues you have handled so far reveals the
dark, covert spirit that dwells within. This clandestine spirit is the enemy of
truth seeking, and I for one, vote for your removal from this position.
I see you have resumed spamming FFL, and this is also a violation of the
so-called guidelines.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :
Dear Friends of FFL; I feel we are moving verymuch within the spirit and intent
of letter of the Yahoo-groups guidelines inthe re-moderation we have done thus
far .
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[FairfieldLife] Freedom of Speech
'What is freedom of speech anyway? There is the joke told years ago by the Russian comedian Yacov Smirnoff. He was confronted by an American bragging about freedom of speech. Smirnoff retorted: "Big deal! We also have freedom of speech in Russia. What we don’t have is freedom after speech."' Just thought our moderator would like to know the company he keeps.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Doing full justice to something magnificant
From: "curtisdeltabl...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]"
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2015 1:32 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Doing full justice to something magnificant
I can't even comment on this right away. I just want it to sink in for the
readers. Take it in, let it wallow in your mind. Take a moment, perhaps with a
cup of tea, open the windows, hear the birds, breath in the the fresh air of
Summer and enjoy something special, nay, something beautiful. In the way an
Amazon naturalist might approach a spider in a web face high. Cautiously, with
equal parts revulsion and fascination...
Exchange from a previous post:
Buck being channeled though Doug:
Yes, Turqb and Serious are gone fromFFL by moderation. I am only the CEO. My
master is the list owner.We had quite sufficient back and forth about this
before taking ouradditional time to go in to pull the moderation levers in
thecontrols
Where does Doug say bouncing Barry was a joint decision by him and Rick? Isn't
that what you accused him of lying about?
I don't see it. "This" refers to "I am only the CEO. My master is the list
owner." Entirely proper, and what Rick said as well ("If Doug abuses his
authority and/or fails to moderate fairly and objectively, I will revoke his
moderator status").
"Pull the moderation levers in the controls" refers to Rick changing the member
settings for the group to allow Doug to moderate (delete posts, bounce people,
approve posts before they go up, etc.).
Where's the lie, Curtis?
Yer gettin' old, Curtis. Your technique is becoming calcified.
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[FairfieldLife] Ethics and Driverless Cars
Should a Driverless Car Decide Who Lives or Dies? 'Right now, ethicists have more questions than answers. Should rules governing autonomous vehicles emphasize the greater good -- the number of lives saved -- and put no value on the individuals involved?' Should a Driverless Car Decide Who Lives or Dies? | | | | | | | | | | | Should a Driverless Car Decide Who Lives or Dies?The gearheads in Detroit, Tokyo and Stuttgart have mostly figured out how to build driverless vehicles. Even the Google guys seem to have solved the riddle. | | | | View on www.bloomberg.com | Preview by Yahoo | | | | |
Re: [FairfieldLife] A Query, not the first line of a joke, or maybe it is?
I like this answer.
From: "Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife]"
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2015 5:01 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] A Query, not the first line of a joke, or maybe
it is?
All gods are metaphors so they are all "imaginary."
On 06/25/2015 09:52 AM, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartax...@yahoo.com
[FairfieldLife] wrote:
How do you distinguish an imaginary god from a real one?
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[FairfieldLife] A Query, not the first line of a joke, or maybe it is?
How do you distinguish an imaginary god from a real one?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Time to come clean Doug
Of course you did not say it. I was pretending I know what your are thinking
and what you are feeling when you post something. Now when you post, what do
you do?
From: "authfri...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]"
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2015 3:40 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Time to come clean Doug
I do not say this. But sometimes it's obvious what state of mind a poster is in.
salyavin was just demanding that Ann quit what he called her "dumb harassment
of Xeno." How about you quit your dumb harassment of me and other TM supporters?
Or is the idea to make up for Barry's absence by emulating his harassing
behavior? You, salyavin, and Curtis seem to be working pretty hard at it, if
not very coherently.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :
Ah. The master projector oracle speaks. I know, she says, exactly what everyone
is really thinking and why.
From: "authfriend@... [FairfieldLife]"
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2015 5:00 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Time to come clean Doug
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :
I would certainly have to agree with you, xeno.
The question is how, or why do you respond to someone who, for a great majority
of the time, is just going for a reaction.
It is a total waste of time, for which I am guilty.
I agree that Barry was likely never upset when he posted.
I beg to differ with both of you. He was often incoherent with rage and
completely out of control when he posted after someone had dissected one of his
posts. You could count on it: he would very rarely respond directly to
criticism, but a day or so later, he'd come out with one of his long posts
attacking the critic on whatever grounds he could dream up.
All his bluster about folks being attached to the self was projection; he was
as attached as anybody and much more attached than some.
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Rick, Time to shut down FFL (Great Beyond Dispatch #2)
This place may just fade into the woodwork. It does get tiresome. I am pretty
sure Barry was feeling wearisome about it. He did post many marvellous things.
His not being here seems the result of a personal vendetta at the hands of the
moderator. The problem with power is it reveals one's corruption. Judy seemed
to lose interest, maybe she just got tired. Her method of posting did not seem
to have changed. Barry challenged people at the gut level as well as at the
intellectual level. The gut level is much more difficult to respond to because
it activates the lower emotional brain functions, and the intellect goes into
hibernation as a result. You even see this in the Bhagavad-Gita: 'From anger
delusion occurs, from delusion bewilderment of memory, after forgetfulness of
memory, the loss of spiritual intelligence, and losing spiritual intelligence,
one perishes'.
From: "jason_gre...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]"
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2015 12:50 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Rick, Time to shut down FFL (Great Beyond
Dispatch #2)
Both, Barry and Judy are no longer posting here. I also
losing my inclination to post here.
Is it time for Rick to shut down FFL? Nothing lasts forever.
All things must end.
If Barry were around he would have quoted Nietzsche.
"Not only the wisdom of centuries --- also their madness
breaketh out in us. Dangerous is it to be an heir."
~ Nietzsche
--- wrote :
I must say I'm impressed at your patience with this bullshit Xeno. But perhaps
it's time to point out the irony in what's happening. Here we have a bunch of
people with not much to say about anything claiming that "mean old Bawee"
stopped them from posting because he was such a mean old meanie.
And here they are pouring abuse on you in the same way they claim he used to
get at them! I've said these people have no sense of awareness but isn't this
taking it too far? I think that amoeba I posted about yesterday has a better
grasp of what's going on than Ms "Back for More".
Lets make a challenge out of it. If it was the Big Bad Wolf stopping
conversations here then why haven't they started again? How come it's looking
more like a teenage girl's facebook page every day?
If you were being prevented from posting, start posting. Start a thread, say
something interesting, tell us something we didn't know, give us an insight
into something - anything.But stop this dumb harassment of Xeno, you're just
making yourself look stupid, he's got more to say than the rest of us put
together.
If you can't manage a whole thread you can share brain cells until you've
thought of something. Better still, have a look back through the archives at
some of Barry's pieces about creative writing. He posted some good essays on
how to get started on the subject because, like me, he got fed up of the lack
of participation and one line posts that add nothing that infest this place.
But any appreciation of Barry's writing and contributions about archaeology,
travel or history or even TV reviews would be a way of admitting that he made
up a huge part of what was worth reading. Can't have that eh? Got to paint him
bad and use him to blame your lack of meaningful participation on.
When was the last time Judy started a thread? Hell, when was the first time
Judy started a thread!
Make an effort, stop the hypocritical bullshit or this place will drown in
bland your pap.
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Time to come clean Doug
And (continuation of post #417750), the authfriend clone is the other one who
always knows what others are thinking and why.
From: "awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]"
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2015 4:48 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Time to come clean Doug
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :
From: "steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife]"
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2015 3:44 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Time to come clean Doug
I am in disagreement with xeno's assertion that he (Barry) was just too clever
in his arguments such that no one could offer an effective rebuttal.
I did not say Turq was too clever, I implied that those who could not provide
an effective rebuttal could not find the right angle of attack or response.
Generally if you are attacked and have an emotional response, your IQ drops
because the fight or flight response tends to reallocate bodily resources away
from the cerebral cortex. So the first thing one had to do to respond to Turq
was not to get emotional about anything he said. You had to be neutral. That is
just the first step, and that does not mean if you chill out, it will then
work. It provides a platform from which to try various kinds of responses. To
my mind, Turq was never upset when he posted, so he was in an optimum form to
respond or not to respond what came back. If you have strong likes and dislikes
when posting, that works against you when posting against Turq.
Trust me Xeno, you are imagining things if you don't think bawee has strong
emotional responses to those he was responding to. He could not tolerate those
who didn't suck up to him or support him. Every single person who took
exception to his rantings and repetitive nonsense was an enemy in his brain and
he disliked, intensely, many people at FFL including myself. He probably has
stronger feelings about me than I do about him, in fact. For example, if you
could see him reading this right now you would see the steam emanating from
every orifice he possesses.
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Time to come clean Doug
Ah. The master projector oracle speaks. I know, she says, exactly what everyone
is really thinking and why.
From: "authfri...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]"
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2015 5:00 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Time to come clean Doug
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :
I would certainly have to agree with you, xeno.
The question is how, or why do you respond to someone who, for a great majority
of the time, is just going for a reaction.
It is a total waste of time, for which I am guilty.
I agree that Barry was likely never upset when he posted.
I beg to differ with both of you. He was often incoherent with rage and
completely out of control when he posted after someone had dissected one of his
posts. You could count on it: he would very rarely respond directly to
criticism, but a day or so later, he'd come out with one of his long posts
attacking the critic on whatever grounds he could dream up.
All his bluster about folks being attached to the self was projection; he was
as attached as anybody and much more attached than some.
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Re: And talk about Turq's personality too Re: [FairfieldLife] Time to come clean Doug
Thank you Ravi. And yes, I am happy. I do not feel all that dissonant. I do not feel obsessive, it just kind of oozes out. It is hard to philosophise when you are insane, but guys like Charles Manson made interesting attempts. Keep trying. I hope your grandmother's passing was an easy one. From: dr_rc_racy To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2015 7:28 AM Subject: Re: And talk about Turq's personality too Re: [FairfieldLife] Time to come clean Doug Hi dear Grandpa Xeno - yes I'm doing very well indeed. My grandmother, alas is no longer with us, she passed away last year in April. Thank you for your concern, much appreciated. Jekyll & Hyde you say? This is my insight for you grandpa, this dissonance is the product of your mind that goes on this incessant, obsessive philosophizing, almost effortless, mechanical and autonomic, totally insulated from the truth. It fools people into believing you are presenting some sort of objective, enlightened, dispassionate, disinterested position when in reality it is masquerading your biases. I almost admire and envy this ability of you to philosophize on auto-pilot. I tried a few times to emulate you, as an experiment in response to specific situations. I tried to come up with the sort of philosophizing that you indulge in with such wild abandon and I mostly failed, it's hard. I cant' be you Grandpa Xeno. Happy? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Ravi, How are you these days? Is your grandmother still with us? I still remember that picture you posted. As for you, you always seemed to have Dr Jekyll/Mr Hyde personality here. This here is Dr Jekyll posting. When the Mr Hyde side posted, it was difficult to respond because there was no logical handle upon which to grasp. Have you had any big insights recently? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Curtis - you really need to stop this malice and deception please. I don't have the time or energy or the inclination to post here and re-hash old issues from 4 years back. The fact of the matter is Ravi didn't cause you any personal harm nor did I cause this international conspiracy of flooding the search engines, how hilarious and preposterous. You got a taste of your own medicine and a taste of what your pal dishes out to everyone else - gratuitous, egregious barrage of insults. Please move on Curtis - stop your poor me routine. Same goes for the likes of Xeno and empty bill, stop these personal attacks on me. Otherwise I agree with you. Doug's not the moderator I would have, he has been a TM cult enabler, an unoriginal, uninteresting poster who spammed the list repeatedly over the years. But that doesn't disqualify him from being a moderator but I would be concerned if his moderatorship results in stopping the freedom of expression FFL is renowned for. You are right in questioning his motivations in banning Barry, he just needs to state clearly why he has banned Barry that's all. As a former poster I'm glad to see Barry go, Edg's impassioned posts demonstrate why Barry has been such a toxic influence here and you Curtis have been one of his greatest enablers here, and you should be ashamed for that. Ravi ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Edg, I was not in Barry's crosshairs and you were. I never viewed you through his eyes. You and I became friends on our own as we sized each other up as good people. So I am not judging you for your opinion of him nor him for his opinion of you. That is between you two guys and is none of my business. I always deal one on one and make up my own mind on people here. If I was Barry's target I would probably feel as you do. But I would just tune him out like I did others who went after me or find a way to interact that suited my writing interests. And I might write as you have dancing on his grave a bit. I get the appeal and I always enjoy reading you whatever the topic. But the bigger issue for me isn't Barry, it is an environment I have valued for a place to exercise free thought. It has been hijacked by someone who not only does not value free expression, he has acted against it. I know you felt the chill when he went after that Lynch comment as an actionable offense. If we want to understand what freedom of speech is all about, defend it for someone whose views we disagree with. I used to argue against banning Ravi for raving here until he crossed over a clear line of personal harm. I thought he deserved to be able to post because I didn't want anyone making that kind of content judgement calls on anyone here. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : I would be willing to give Turq an offer to post ONCE more.cuz it'd be great to see how hard he'd cram everything into it. Hilarious, right? I tried hard as hell to like Turq, because: Curtis. I'd do numbers on my head about "Turq's a good writer, posts some newsy stuff, gives some headsup
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: WHAT THE HELL? (Great Beyond Dispatch #2)
From: "awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]"
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2015 3:58 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: WHAT THE HELL? (Great Beyond Dispatch
#2)---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :---In
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :---In
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :
So FFL is still the best bet to find a decent conversation,
What, on the whole internet? I realize you don't get out much but this is
rather far fetched.
I am talking about spiritual groups related to TM
Xeno, until we removed the biggest impediment to a real conversation this place
was being relentlessly moderated by that impediment. No one was exempt from his
malicious and twisted lies and false allegations, not to mention bone-headed
conclusions, except those who agreed with and stroked his ego. For you to
assert that FFL, of all places, was "the best place to find a decent
conversation", is perverse if not simply bizarre.
It is the ideas and what you can learn from them, or make out of them, not the
people that propose them that I find interesting. What you do not like, skip
over or delete (if you interact by email). Perhaps all of us have had an idol
that did not live up to the image we pretended to ourselves that they were. In
the movement, even shortly after one started to get involved with TM, there
were strange warning signs something was amiss, and we would ignore it. The
main problem is human beings are never ever really a match for the ideals they
create. Still, we can sometimes extract value out of a
much-less-than-what-we-would-consider-ideal situation.
Funny, I wrote a post about this very thing to MJ. The big difference was I
made it personal, I used "I" a lot whereas you tend to keep things in the
abstract. Dry and brittle, a tad pedantic; I'm hoping you weren't a teacher or
professor in your working days - the class would have been on snooze fer sure.
Sorry, but it's true.
No, I was not a teacher or a professor, so no one had to fall asleep on my
account. I used to live next to a professor of engineering. He would come over
and talk for hours in a monotone. Most of the time, in 'person' I don't talk
that much. As for an 'I', you think you are a person. Too bad, what a loss.
Ho, ho, hee, hee, snort. That is fucking hilarious!! And thank you for that.
You have seriously missed the boat, lost the thread, stumbled off the platform.
There is no loss Xeno, you evidently misunderstood something when you became
"enlightened" or read the wrong book or misinterpreted some sage. There is no
"too bad" for living amid personhood. I can vouch for that. Whatever you have
lost, you need to find it again, and soon before you leave that body of yours.
It's all in the eye of the beholder, and it's 'eye', not eyes. POVs are not
interchangeable. I have not lost anything that is real. I lost a lot of other
stuff though. I could lose some more; it is a waste of time to seek what cannot
be found.
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Time to come clean Doug
From: "steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]"
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2015 3:44 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Time to come clean Doug
I am in disagreement with xeno's assertion that he (Barry) was just too clever
in his arguments such that no one could offer an effective rebuttal.
I did not say Turq was too clever, I implied that those who could not provide
an effective rebuttal could not find the right angle of attack or response.
Generally if you are attacked and have an emotional response, your IQ drops
because the fight or flight response tends to reallocate bodily resources away
from the cerebral cortex. So the first thing one had to do to respond to Turq
was not to get emotional about anything he said. You had to be neutral. That is
just the first step, and that does not mean if you chill out, it will then
work. It provides a platform from which to try various kinds of responses. To
my mind, Turq was never upset when he posted, so he was in an optimum form to
respond or not to respond what came back. If you have strong likes and dislikes
when posting, that works against you when posting against Turq.
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: WHAT THE HELL? (Great Beyond Dispatch #2)
From: "Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" To: "FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com" Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2015 9:46 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: WHAT THE HELL? (Great Beyond Dispatch #2) Reading your post about the warning signs soon after beginning TM - can you believe that when I first started I was so stupid I really believed that all the local TM teachers were enlightened??? I will try not to hold it against you, but if that was the case, I can overlook it. I was really interested in finding an easy meditation technique, so I was going to try it even before I heard a lecture, so I really did not listen that carefully, or care who or what taught me. It was like, teach me, and I'll see if it works. I had a very non-TM mindset when I learned, and it never completely went away. From: "Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartax...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" To: "FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com" Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2015 3:12 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: WHAT THE HELL? (Great Beyond Dispatch #2) None of us are perfect, and there does seem to be a narrowing of one's focus on certain things as we move into older age. I wasn't on FFL in the early days, but sniping back and forth did seem to be increasing, it's basically a lower brain function. Maharishi seemed to be in much better form when he was younger too. Each conversation has two sides. I cannot see that those that opposed Turq so vociferously here really acted much better or more intelligently. I cannot see that the Peak with its absurd discussions of crop circles etc., is a Peak of intelligence. The goal, if you will, is to have the extremes of existence all functioning within that existence, not as separated things. So FFL is still the best bet to find a decent conversation, but there is a dark cloud of suppression overhead at the moment, and so far it has been what seems to be personally selective. It is the ideas and what you can learn from them, or make out of them, not the people that propose them that I find interesting. What you do not like, skip over or delete (if you interact by email). Perhaps all of us have had an idol that did not live up to the image we pretended to ourselves that they were. In the movement, even shortly after one started to get involved with TM, there were strange warning signs something was amiss, and we would ignore it. The main problem is human beings are never ever really a match for the ideals they create. Still, we can sometimes extract value out of a much-less-than-what-we-would-consider-ideal situation. From: "jason_gre...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2015 6:34 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: WHAT THE HELL? (Great Beyond Dispatch #2) You know Xeno, about 14 years ago 'Uncle Tantra' was like a giant to me, battling the TM-mov't and other cults. As all three of us are basically on the same page philosophically, I did learn a lot from him. But, as years of interaction showed he is not as perfect as I thought him to be. I guess we all are human. But, it's a fact that I learnt quite a number of valuable things from him. What I tried to explain is that his reaction when I was bounced, was almost brazen and callous. Some of his critiques about the TM-mov't a decade ago were well written and should be read by the people on the highest level in the mov't. It seemed, he began to slowly deterioriate mentally as years rolled by. Time is time, it eventually catches you, and you are history. By the way, don't you think MJ should start "the_abyss" group. The peak can be the north pole. The FairfieldLife the equator, and 'the abyss' the south pole. --- wrote : Senility just means life is getting mellower. While it is true authfriend would root out various kinds of errors in what people wrote, she often did not see the forest for the trees, and did not expound much on what she actually knew about the subjects she was criticising were discussing. It was all dissection and no integration. If you go over Turq's posts for the last 10 years, you will find he also could provide clarity. Both Turq and authfriend tried made people look like idiots, and possibly some us were and still are. --- wrote : Hey Xeno, it's me, moi, the old jedi_spock. Rick bounced me along with 'Dan firedman'. I never got yahoo to interfere in the freedom of speech here. It was Dan who did it. Rick didn't give me an opportunity to explain my POV. A few days later Rick kindly reinstated me. Thanks to Curtis who put in a good word to Rick. Looks like you too are becoming senile like Barry. It's these kind of errors that irritated authfriend. Tell you what, you and me, along with Salyavi
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: WHAT THE HELL? (Great Beyond Dispatch #2)
None of us are perfect, and there does seem to be a narrowing of one's focus on certain things as we move into older age. I wasn't on FFL in the early days, but sniping back and forth did seem to be increasing, it's basically a lower brain function. Maharishi seemed to be in much better form when he was younger too. Each conversation has two sides. I cannot see that those that opposed Turq so vociferously here really acted much better or more intelligently. I cannot see that the Peak with its absurd discussions of crop circles etc., is a Peak of intelligence. The goal, if you will, is to have the extremes of existence all functioning within that existence, not as separated things. So FFL is still the best bet to find a decent conversation, but there is a dark cloud of suppression overhead at the moment, and so far it has been what seems to be personally selective. It is the ideas and what you can learn from them, or make out of them, not the people that propose them that I find interesting. What you do not like, skip over or delete (if you interact by email). Perhaps all of us have had an idol that did not live up to the image we pretended to ourselves that they were. In the movement, even shortly after one started to get involved with TM, there were strange warning signs something was amiss, and we would ignore it. The main problem is human beings are never ever really a match for the ideals they create. Still, we can sometimes extract value out of a much-less-than-what-we-would-consider-ideal situation. From: "jason_gre...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2015 6:34 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: WHAT THE HELL? (Great Beyond Dispatch #2) You know Xeno, about 14 years ago 'Uncle Tantra' was like a giant to me, battling the TM-mov't and other cults. As all three of us are basically on the same page philosophically, I did learn a lot from him. But, as years of interaction showed he is not as perfect as I thought him to be. I guess we all are human. But, it's a fact that I learnt quite a number of valuable things from him. What I tried to explain is that his reaction when I was bounced, was almost brazen and callous. Some of his critiques about the TM-mov't a decade ago were well written and should be read by the people on the highest level in the mov't. It seemed, he began to slowly deterioriate mentally as years rolled by. Time is time, it eventually catches you, and you are history. By the way, don't you think MJ should start "the_abyss" group. The peak can be the north pole. The FairfieldLife the equator, and 'the abyss' the south pole. --- wrote : Senility just means life is getting mellower. While it is true authfriend would root out various kinds of errors in what people wrote, she often did not see the forest for the trees, and did not expound much on what she actually knew about the subjects she was criticising were discussing. It was all dissection and no integration. If you go over Turq's posts for the last 10 years, you will find he also could provide clarity. Both Turq and authfriend tried made people look like idiots, and possibly some us were and still are. --- wrote : Hey Xeno, it's me, moi, the old jedi_spock. Rick bounced me along with 'Dan firedman'. I never got yahoo to interfere in the freedom of speech here. It was Dan who did it. Rick didn't give me an opportunity to explain my POV. A few days later Rick kindly reinstated me. Thanks to Curtis who put in a good word to Rick. Looks like you too are becoming senile like Barry. It's these kind of errors that irritated authfriend. Tell you what, you and me, along with Salyavin, MJ, Curtis move over to "the abyss". Let 'the abyss' be the mirror of fairfieldlife. Hell, I wish someone like "gullible fool" comes back and takes over the moderatership from Buck. Barry's posts were never designed to give people clarity. Barry's posts were designed to hurt people at the tender feeling level and make them look like idiots. There was a sadistic streak in his posts that befuddled people. --- wrote : No, he doesn't appear to be a psychopath. If anything, I am closer to being one than him. His career path, and the people he lives with probably would not have worked out that way if he were a psychopath. Psychopaths tend to be ingratiating, they have an ability to make you like them. Turq does not seem to have that ability to create a fake, loving façade that will fool most people, if anything, he is the opposite, an acquired taste that many here cannot stomach. You were trying to get Yahoo to interfere with freedom of speech here, and Rick did not care for such a threat. But now of course, freedom of speech is curtailed, just in another direction, a bit more in the direction of insanty, as he gave moderation to the one here most infected with religion. Religious people tend not to enjoy f
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Great Beyond Dispatch #2
No, he doesn't appear to be a psychopath. If anything, I am closer to being one than him. His career path, and the people he lives with probably would not have worked out that way if he were a psychopath. Psychopaths tend to be ingratiating, they have an ability to make you like them. Turq does not seem to have that ability to create a fake, loving façade that will fool most people, if anything, he is the opposite, an acquired taste that many here cannot stomach. You were trying to get Yahoo to interfere with freedom of speech here, and Rick did not care for such a threat. But now of course, freedom of speech is curtailed, just in another direction, a bit more in the direction of insanty, as he gave moderation to the one here most infected with religion. Religious people tend not to enjoy free speech when it comes to their sacred cows. I think all people who believe in a religion are insane, so apparently you would fall into that category. But it is a limited insanity. For example, you might know how to make a good cup of coffee, and know precisely how to proceed to accomplish that and have other skills. But the human mind comes to a strange disconnect when it comes to religious beliefs. It is felt they must be protected and that somehow they are different from other beliefs. But all beliefs have one characteristic, they are a pretence to knowledge which one does not really have, and religious beliefs tend to be programmed into the mind at an early age where the mind is very plastic and vulnerable and gullible. It is a form of conditioning that results in a mechanical response to certain kinds of input later in life. A spiritual life is one in which those conditioned beliefs are unwound and are replaced by something you would never in a million years expect. From: "jason_gre...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2015 2:03 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Great Beyond Dispatch #2 Too bad things ended this way for 'uncle tantra'. He is a high calibre intellectual, but unfortunately a horrendous psychopath. As Judy pointed out, he is so focussed on displaying his dazzling language skills that he loses objectivity. This is what he said when I got bounced by Rick, "So IMO during this latest kerfuffle Jedi was just being an annoying Internet troll by trolling religious fanatic Jews. Dan, on the other hand, was trying to be a dictatorial bastard by trying to threaten Rick for not silencing him. Jedi was merely willing to diss religious fanatics. Dan was being *such* a dictatorial bastard that he was willing to try to get Yahoo to censure Fairfield Life or take it down because people on it were saying some things he didn't like. *That*, I am pretty sure, is what pushed Rick to act. In his own sick, twisted way, Dan was trying to do exactly the same thing that other asshole from the past was doing when he posted porn to FFL and then reported it to Yahoo, again in an attempt to get it taken down, and again for the same reason -- he didn't like what some people were saying about things he was attached to. Jedi was merely expressing his opinion, no matter how crudely or stupidly. Dan was trying to force other people to do what *he* wanted them to do. Given a choice, I'd rather live with foul-mouthed critics like Jedi than live with the insane people like Dan. But Rick made the "wisdom of Solomon" choice and got rid of BOTH of them. Win-win. Congratulations, Rick. 399695 Agreed. Very Solomon-like, getting rid of both the 12-year-old and the whiner. I don't "auto delete" jedi's posts, just nuke them at the first glimpse of crazy, which is much of the time. Dan, however, has been on my DNR list since he reappeared, but he *still* required maintenance, just to empty the folder collecting his posts. It's been like living alone but having to flush the toilet 100 times a day to get rid of someone else's shit. Good riddance. 399571 --- wrote : How come so many are talking about Turq? It seems he is still very much with us here, in spite of the cadre that wanted him removed. And note that when one 'R' was talked about after having been canned, he came back courtesy of Rick. And we still do not know the offence Turq was canned for, a total lack of transparency is still operational here by the head of the Fairfield Inquisition. What you wrote here is about equal to anything Turq ever wrote on this group, as far as content and tone, so his removal is all the more inexplicable. TurquoiseBee's alleged 'badness' really has counterparts among other members of this group, including those that ran to the Peak. Since I last cleared my email, there are practically no posts on the Peak. It seems as if the cowards there are returning here. An overpopulation of wussies spells ill for the quality of content on FFL. The problem with Turq was there were few who could make a reasoned argument against
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Everything is Information
From: "jr_...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2015 3:43 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Everything is Information Xeno, No. The point is that the universe functions as information in a virtual reality. It also means that Consciousness or the unified field is the main computer (the CPU) that runs this virtual reality. Logic would tell you that this virtual reality or information can't create itself. It has to be created by Somebody, which is Consciousness. How do you get from 'unified field' to 'consciousness' to 'somebody', all with capital starting letters? 'Unified field' in science is a physical construct. Logic can only process what you know, it doesn't tell you anything unless you plug in values. You are surmising that virtual reality or information must have some sort of creation process behind them. Why does it have to be a somebody? Consciousness is not a somebody. As the creator, it is only logical that Consciousness is the source of everything. As such, It has the quality of the Observer, the Process of Observing, and the Observed. Why? Because there is nobody else present. It is the Prime Mover. IOW, It attains the dynamic nature of the unified field, the samhita of the Rishi-Devata-Chandas. We know things because we are conscious, but that is far cry from it being the source of everything. If a light shines on an object in a dark room, then the object becomes visible, but one has to assume that the light and room and the object already existed, and the fact the light made us see it does not mean the light created the object. Most scientists are still trapped in the objective universe paradigm. That's why they have an adverse reaction to the possibility that the universe is run by a subjective reality, Consciousness or the Unified Field. I do not know why people always say this. Science is the objective universe paradigm. Scientists are not trapped in it. It is the modus operandi of science. A scientist can investigate an autombile crash because the automobile is objective. Now if the automobile crash were subjective, in subjective space, and no physical automobile were present, how would they proceed to investigate the crash? The observer, observed, and process of observing illustration is to give temporary meaning to certain experiences people might have if they are seeking enlightenment. It is in fact also how science works, there is an observer, a scientist or a machine recording data about an event (like the LHC at CERN), there is what is observed, and the process of observations takes place in time from the beginning to the end of the observation. As far a consciousness is concerned it makes experience possible, but whether it is active or passive in that observation is another question. A nervous system seems to be required. And machines make observations and then we, with our consciousness observe what the machines recorded, but we don't know if the machine is conscious. If they are not then an observation might take place and yet that observation would remain forever unknown. The thing about unity as a spiritual phenomenon is consciousness and the physical world are not distinct, they are as distinct as they are in ordinary waking consciousness. It is only on the spiritual path that consciousness and the physical objective world seem to be different from one another. As you are speaking here of M's Hindu philosophy, I again re-quote for you from Vasistha, considered one of the greatest of Indian sages: 'But all this talk about who created this world and how it was created is intended only for the purpose of composing scriptures and expounding them: it is not based on truth... Descriptions of creation, etc., are given in the scriptures for the purpose of instructing disciples: do not let your mind be coloured by them. When you realise that which is indicated by the words, then naturally you will abandon the jugglery of words. In the infinite consciousness itself there is neither an intention nor the veil of delusion. But, that itself is before you as the world'. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Interesting. So this means that information rather than consciousness is the basis of the universe and our experience, that consciousness is an emergent property of information? Scientists would love this because it makes consciousness amenable to developing equations to explain its existence. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Xeno, Please, read my recent post to Salyavin regarding this thread. We've talked about this Information theory the other day. So, I believe it has some merit. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : The universe is a virtual reality. The main computer is Consciousness, or the Unified Field. Tom Campbell discusses these ideas in the future of physics
[FairfieldLife] A Final Last Message?
_ I received a rather cryptic message from TurquoiseBee, in which he merely mentioned as possibly a 'last message' and all it is is a link to a video. I normally don't watch videos because they take too much time. I think he is using the song in this video to communicate a message; he had nothing to say personally, so whatever he wants to say seems to be embedded in either the visuals or the lyrics here. True Detective Season 2: Opening Credits Episode #1 (HBO) | | | | | | | | | | | True Detective Season 2: Opening Credits Episode #1 (HBO... | | | | View on youtu.be | Preview by Yahoo | | | | |
Re: [FairfieldLife] What is a single thought?
Nice post. You might be interested in some Taoist benchmarks concerning
enlightenment:
Normal State — Wandering mind. Some will often have 3-6 (or more)
threads/dialogs of thought jumping around.Temporary One Thread — In meditation,
one quiets to one focused thread (as in mantra or concentration). At this
state, one may begin to notice energy (if looking for it).Temporary Quiet Mind
— One can begin to see/trace thoughts.Stable Quiet Meditation — One can
perceive the nature/energy of mind. Can perceive astral experiences.Expansion
of Quiet Mind to Normal Life — One begins to "see themselves" doing things. An
example is seeing yourself getting angry, but can't stop yourself.Quiet Mind in
Life — Usually only one thread going, sometimes no threads. Can see and stop
yourself from getting angry.Calm Mind — No real thoughts unless there is
something to do/decide. Meditation and life are the same. Often described as
nothingness. Many stop here and declare victory.Noticing Oneness — Something
"tickles" the calm mind. Curiosity returns. Begin to break beyond the local
body-mind.See Oneness — Feels like every soul is inside you. Begin integration
with existence.Oneness — Can feel everyone and everything.Oneness beyond time —
Can perceive parallel realities and beyond time.Primordial State — Integration
with God/Existence/Emptiness (depending on your perspective).
From: Duveyoung
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2015 3:28 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] What is a single thought?
I once heard Maharishi Mahesh Yogi say, ".and they don't even know what
a thought is."
At the time, we all felt so smug, but 40 years later, I'm wondering if FFL
could possibly agree on a definition.
I maintained that I have 5 thoughts per second. My definition of thought is "a
complete concept."
Using this definition, I note that when I count as fast as I can, mentally, I
can get up to five before the second hand clicks to the next second.
Each number is clearly heard in my mind rather than it being kind of slurringly
said process.
You?
Here's the rub: obviously the brain/body is processing actual millions of
inputs, and most of the material is "ignored." Proof being that YOUR elbow
just now that I mention it is found to be sending you messages about its
position, pressures on it, clothing rubbing sensations etc. This information
is broadcast 24/7 to you, but almost never gets to the front burner of
consciousness.
Clearly 5 thoughts per second is a relative concept.
Never-the-less, I like to offer it as a starter concept about thought. If one
CAN have conscious awareness of five thoughts per second, then the concept of
"cherry picking" comes to my fore. Seems to me that all of us are cherry
picking which of our thoughts to attend and which to ignore, but this "picking"
is automated and usually not a conscious choice.
Seems to me, enlightenment is a kind of surrendering to this vastness of
processing -- it being a perfect example of "karma is unfathomable" and so just
relax and let it all happen.
Q: Can there be awareness without an object of awareness?
Nisargadatta: Awareness with an object we called witnessing. When there is
also self-identification with the object, caused by desire or fear, such a
state is called a person. In reality there is only one state; when distorted by
self-identification it is called a person, when coloured with the sense of
being, it is the witness; when colourless and limitless, it is called the
Supreme.
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Experimenting
From: "awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]"
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2015 10:44 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Experimenting
I've been away for a while and thought it might be interesting to test the
waters here now that the dynamic is altered. It might just end up being the
same old, same old but, being an optimist, I'm going to give it a shot.
Hello FFL.
If you remove the o from your greeting, that might give you an indication
of the temperature of the waters. I was watching a program about wolves
recently. It seems when wolves are removed from the ecosystem, the system
becomes more unhealthy. The sick and weak animals proliferate and the health of
the herds deteriorates. That does not imply you are sick and weak, but having
run off, there are questions that may be asked, of all those who might be
reversing their departures. When a lot of prey is reintroduced to an area, one
wonders what might subsequently return.Experimental subjects are always welcome
here, however. #yiv5208382235 #yiv5208382235 -- #yiv5208382235ygrp-mkp
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Why Does Time Exist?
From: "jr_...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]"
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2015 7:41 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Why Does Time Exist?
Sean Carroll, a physicist, discusses the various aspects of time but does
not cover the various theories of the Big Bang. He did not talk about the
unified field or the quantum wave function which was the source of the Big
Bang.IMO, the fact that the universe is expanding to eternity means that the
universe came out of eternity, through the quantum wave function.In the Big
Bang theory, if space were negatively curved, the universe would expand, as a
measure of time, eternally, but that does not say anything about where it came
from or what it came from, or in fact if it came at all. The beginning, as a
function of quantum mechanical ideas might be a quantum fluctuation, but did
any quantum field exist before the universe began. But before it began, or even
at the beginning there would be no quantum wave function, which requires there
be particles, but no particles exist in that highly compressed state at the Big
Bang. A wave function in quantum mechanics describes the quantum state of an
isolated system of one or more particles.Exactly what does 'coming out of
eternity' mean in your scenario. Is the eternity the universe comes out of time
based? Because without space-time, there is no time. Whereas the universe
expanding to eternity takes, in terms of time, forever, and that is
time-based.Sean Carroll: Why Does Time Exist?
||
|||| Sean Carroll: Why Does Time Exist? Cosmologist Sean
Carroll tackles a deceptively simple question: Why does time exist at all? The
potential answers point to a surprising view of the nature o...||
| View on www.npr.org |Preview by Yahoo|
||
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: Alex, can you post a question to the forum for me?
Buck, what were your reasons for removing Turq from the group? I know there
have been many complaints about him from spiritual cretins as to why they
wanted him removed, but you have been silent about it, even though you seemed
vocal about it in a general way prior to being appointed moderator. I am
interested in the mind of our moderator. As you performed the action of
blocking him, what were you feeling? He had, after all, been on your case for
years.
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: Alex, can you post a question to the forum for me?
From: "authfri...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2015 3:52 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: Alex, can you post a question to the forum for me? This post is almost entirely irrelevant to the current situation on FFL. Moreover, it has quite a few inaccuracies. There is no reason that anyone's equanimity should be deliberately tested by trying to upset them. It may happen naturally in the course of a discussion or argument, but otherwise it's just an excuse to indulge one's aggression and treat them badly. If your equanimity is tested and you fail, then you realise you have more work to do in that regard. Before I learned TM, most of what I was engaged in was all about button pushing and discovering the extent of one's conditioning. It can be valuable. This feature of spiritual technology is heavily suppressed in the TM movement. Turq's posts were frequently poorly reasoned. He was a flashy writer, and this tended to be deceptive: one assumed he was saying something insightful because one was dazzled by the language. But if you looked more closely, you found that he was so focused on showing off his language skills that he didn't pay much attention to working out his ideas properly. Also, he often got his facts wrong, inadvertently or otherwise. Turq's post were almost always exaggerated for effect. Maharishi always exaggerated too to emphasise points. And in discussing metaphysical aspects of spirituality, there are no facts, so it does not matter if you make a mistake, everyone is dreaming in that regard. I'm not sure anybody cares which "R's" you would or would not have removed. Tell that to those that argued with them, or had to wade through their posts. Doug has not yet demonstrated a tyrannical side. As Alex confirmed, he has not deleted any posts. He has "deleted" two posters, both for more than sufficient reason. He has not moderated any "contrary views" except for one slip with Turq's nasty post about David Lynch (which has not been deleted). Every new moderator, as far as I'm concerned, gets to make a couple of mistakes at first. That's how they learn what it's about. I suspect that is only because Rick is looking over his shoulder. Doug has been under withering fire from Turq for *years*. It's no wonder he has "personal enmity"; he wouldn't be human if he didn't. He's stood up under it remarkably well. But Turq handed him a justification to expel him on a silver platter when he declared himself not subject to Doug's authority as moderator. What was he *thinking*?? How could there have been any question in his mind as to why he'd been denied access to the forum? Doug is a rather strange persona in my opinion, constant spamming, often a complete lack of original thinking in those repetitive whining post that went on for all those years. With Turq gone, I am interested though in seeing if he comes out into the sun. There have always been signs he can think independently of his TMO conditioning, and that the TMO has essentially excommunicated him perhaps it will emerge. Doug's "religious persona" is hardly medieval. Nineteenth century, maybe. I vote for giving him a chance and a bit of benefit of the doubt, maybe even helping him out rather than continually nastily criticizing him. That was an exaggeration, 19th century is a more accurate characterisation. Of course it is no longer the 19th century either, its a 21st century persona with historical influences. Did anyone argue that personal attacks always involved profanity? Personal attacks do not require profanity. Did anyone argue that personal attacks were always gratuitous? Personal attacks are often a response to a personal attack, they can be a reaction. Did anyone argue that likes and dislikes have something to do with the truth? What do likes and dislikes have to do with truth, other than if you like the idea of truth, it might point the mind in looking to find out? As for your quotes, at this point they're straw men. Nobody's freedom of speech has been taken away, nobody has tried to suppress others' opinions or ideas, nobody has censored anything. Turq is not here so he can no longer speak freely here, his opinions have been now suppressed. He has been censored. So has 'R', removed by Rick. To me 'R' was like a swarm of mosquitoes; certainly you remember when he began to focus on you. And your final paragraph is gratuitously insulting to Doug. Insulting, perhaps, but not gratuitous. Doug is not a free thinker, not a secular humanist, I think if he did not have Rick looking over his shoulder here, we would see the real persona unchained. But you know, none of the interplay here is really personal, we are just text on a computer screen. We are trading our ideas about what we think, our ideas about what others are, there is no flesh and blood interaction, no real personal interaction. Of course where spirit
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The birth of computer consciousness?
First of all the idea 'heart chakra' has to be discovered as a physical
construct rather than being conceived as a metaphysical imaginary entity. What
is missing so far in artificial intelligence is awareness. What is
consciousness that a computer could be conscious? One of the scientific
theories of consciousness (integrated information theory) indicates that simple
neural nets could be conscious but a complex one might not be. This would mean
consciousness is an emergent phenomenon. Some other theories (the unprovable
ones) postulate panpsychism, the view that consciousness, mind or psyche is a
universal feature of all things, and the primordial feature from which all
other characteristics are derived. This is the basic idea in the Upanishads,
Taoism, and Zen. Panpsychism takes the idea of gods or god and diffuses it,
completely abstracting it, de-anthropomorphising it, removing the intentional
stance as impetus for action, de-entifying it entirely. It basically makes
consciousness disappear by making it what everything is. In this case,
supposing that were true, any computer given sensory hardware would be
conscious, but not necessarily self-aware, which would require a particular
topology of the neural net.
In speaking of the heart, we could consider psychopaths, which are often
engaging, seemingly caring people, but inside they have zero compassion, zero
empathy. A computer neural net could be programmed, or even taught, to give the
appearance and behaviour of emotional warmth without actually having it. On the
other hand, would that programming actually result in it having heart? An
actor, or a psychopath can fake having heart, so perhaps it would depend on how
many layers devoted to the feature exist in the neural net, how deep it really
went.
In mixing computer science and physics with ideas like 'heart chakra' you have
to provide real demonstrable confirmation of the existence of this feature, not
just postulate it is there because someone planted the idea in your mind. I
have heard the idea for over 40 years, but don't know if it is real, and I
suspect there are much better explanation for human emotional behaviour and
feeling than this insubstantial concept.
From: "dhamiltony...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]"
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2015 11:01 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The birth of computer consciousness?
Yep, that is interesting speculation. Butcan they make a heart chakra and
its field affect for a computer? This entraining of computers theytalk about
with layers of stacked layers sounds a lot like methodwithin training of field
dogs for coordinated hunting with humans orstarting horses and bringing them
along as working horses or ridinghorses with humans. What seems is yet missing
in this artificialintelligence is the operation of a heart chakra by experience.
“..We train an artificial neural network by showing it millions of training
examples and gradually adjusting the network parameters until it gives the
classifications we want.”
"Oneof the challenges of neural networks is understanding what exactlygoes on
at each layer. We know that after training, each layerprogressively extracts
higher and higher-level features of the image,until the final layer essentially
makes a decision on what the imageshows. For example, the first layer maybe
looks for edges or corners.Intermediate layers interpret the basic features to
look for overallshapes or components, like a door or a leaf. The final few
layersassemble those into complete interpretations—these neurons activatein
response to very complex things such as entire buildings or trees."
Working with a heart chakra, by contrast..
Buck | trailer SUNDANCE 2011
||
|||| Buck | trailer SUNDANCE 2011 Buck - U.S.
Documentary Competition from the SUNDANCE FILM FESTIVAL 2011 Genre: documentary
Regie / directed by: Cindy Meehl Darsteller / cast: Kino...||
| View on www.youtube.com |Preview by Yahoo|
||
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :
This is really fascinating:
Inceptionism: Going Deeper into Neural Networks
| |
| | | | Inceptionism: Going Deeper into Neural Networks Posted by
Alexander Mordvintsev, Software Engineer, Christopher Olah, Software
Engineering Intern and Mike Tyka, Software Engineer | |
|View on googleresearch.blogsp... | Preview by Yahoo |
| |
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[FairfieldLife] Dark Medieval Consciousness
It would appear a dark, medieval consciousness is beginning to take over
Fairfield Life, in the likeness of the Transcendental Meditation Organisation's
tyrannical manner.
Medieval
1. of or relating to the Middle Ages.
2. Informal, very old-fashioned or primitive.
Synonyms: antique archaic feudal Gothic primitive antediluvian
antiquated old old-fashioned unenlightened antiquated out of date
outdated outmoded anachronistic passé obsolete horse-and-buggy
Tyranny
3. cruel, unreasonable, or arbitrary use of power or control.
Synonyms: authoritarianism autocracy coercion cruelty despotism
domination oligarchy oppression terrorism totalitarianism absolutism
fascism high-handedness imperiousness monocracy severity totality
peremptoriness reign of terror unreasonableness
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: On Gratuitous invasions of privacy
Thanks for that too.
From: "Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife]"
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2015 3:03 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: On Gratuitous invasions of privacy
Message numbers are embedded in the headers emails from Yahoo Groups. It
is the second part of the Newman-Id:
X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 3920196-m417027 417027 is the message number for your post
below. Not sure if that helps any but that's where it's given in the message
header.
On 06/17/2015 07:34 PM, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartax...@yahoo.com
[FairfieldLife] wrote:
That was helpful, I do not think I ever noticed that. But when I am using
e-mail it is a bit more difficult as there is no box. Usually a post number is
not mentioned. That the word message# is in grey reduces its visibility. Part
of ergonomic software design is to test a population of typical users and give
them a task and see if they can complete it. Often software designers discover
what seemed obvious to them was in effect, invisible to the typical user, in
which case, if there is time, they make a change. On the other hand the Search
bar at the top is rather prominent. A good design would allow the typing
'message #xx' in that box and would come up with results, but that does not
work unless the message# is in the message itself. If not it returns posts
with the word message in them. So the software has the search routines split
into two separate functions. I see the date functions in Advanced Search now do
not give error messages, but with my browser, still do not return a date
range. I am not usually interested in past posts so I do not use the search
functions that often.
From: "authfri...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]"
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2015 9:30 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: On Gratuitous invasions of privacy
Just popping back in quickly with a helpful note:
It's absurdly easy to find a post via the Website when you have the post
number, which was provided by the moderator in this case. Just go to the
Message View page. At the top, under the banner photo to the right, is a box
labeled "Message #," with a magnifying glass icon. Type the post number in the
box. Hit Return. Voila!
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :
[...] I find it incredibly difficult to find any message even a couple of
days old. Neo has made it very difficult to locate past messages.[...]
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :
[...] Now in a choice of moderation Turqb can go back in and delete this
posting of his post haste and protect his membership status here or will this
be left to the FFL moderators to go in and do it? The choice is Turq's.
-JaiGuruYou
reference: FFL# 416332
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: On Gratuitous invasions of privacy
I like Lynch's films too. They are dark for the most part, and in the view of people I watched them with, sick. He seems to have a preference for head injuries. My favourite is still his first major foray, Eraserhead. Although I suspect the non-linear character of many of them lead some to consider him a genius because they cannot understand them. It is those short scenes of human behaviour that display a strange deviant creepiness that I find intriguing, such as feeding the mutan kid in Eraserhead, or that guy in Muholland Drive dumping his trollop wife's jewellery into paint cans and massaging them with his hands to get revenge. That his films contain scenes most people I know would rather not experience does not necessarily mean he is sick, but I am sure it makes a lot of people wonder about him, because such thoughts do not occur to them, or if they do, they edit them out of their minds, especially in conversation so they appear nice and normal. From: "Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife]" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2015 1:45 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: On Gratuitous invasions of privacy I like Lynch's films. I also being in the arts myself know how some artists think and Lynch has found TM useful and doesn't want to be bothered doing anything else. I'm sure some of his artist friends have told him there are better things out there but he doesn't care, he just wants to get on with his art. OTOH, I've known MUM Vedic Studies grads who like to explore other paths too. But I hear that all seasons of the Andy Griffith Show are available on Netflix if that suits you. :-D On 06/17/2015 02:52 PM, Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: For whatever my opinion is worth, I would slur and revile Lynch to a fair-thee-well. He is obviously a hypocrite which puts him in good company since most of the TM leadership I ever had dealings with were too, and he is the purveyor of a way to "save" the world while adding to its degradation with his awful twisted schlock. From: "anartax...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2015 4:27 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: On Gratuitous invasions of privacy David Lynch is a public figure in the TM movement, and worldwide. He is not part of the FFL Yahoo group. He is in a different category than members of this group. Criticism of Lynch as a public figure is fair game on-line and in the press as long as it is not libel. I feel this is NOT a violation of Yahoo group guidelines and you are overstepping your authority. I find it incredibly difficult to find any message even a couple of days old. Neo has made it very difficult to locate past messages. However, I did find that post. You have got to be kidding 'dhamiltonyk5'. I believe I know someone who went on that course. That person did not get enlightened. I think that person is very gullible, based on considerations other than that person having gone on that course. Saying someone is gullible is a mere opinion, but it is something that could be backed up with evidence. Gullible: easily persuaded to believe something; credulous, naive, over-trusting, over-trustful, easily deceived, easily taken in, exploitable, dupable, impressionable, unsuspecting, un-suspicious, unwary, ingenuous, innocent, inexperienced, unworldly, green; Furthermore, it was not a non sequitur, 'TurquoiseBee' was responding to a similar event of gullibility, providing what he thought was another example of the same, so it was germane to the conversation. We have all been taken in by something in our lives. There are a lot of us who feel that the TMO has taken advantage of people's inexperience in certain areas of life, and that as a spiritual movement, it and those supporting it have in some ways gone off track. And if you have ever watched all of David Lynch's work, he is a pretty weird guy by most normal person standards. And that post was over 10 days ago. A moderator is supposed to be doing this more or less in real time, dealing with current 'offences', like the broadcast loop delay on live broadcasts a moderator can delete certain words in almost real time. This example is more like the Inquisition looking for someone as a scapegoat. I think anyone who took a course for a fee like that is out of their mind. Even worse than gullible. Unless they are thinking of it as a conscious donation to a cause they believe is real, it seems to lack judgement. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Additionally, “Exploitative or degrading comments are not welcome in Groups.” “..and don't invade other people's privacy.” The dragging of someone in to an unrelated thread as a means to slur them using FFL, a yahoo-group.. Whoa, for instance DLynch as a practitioner of TM worked with Maharish
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: On Gratuitous invasions of privacy
That was helpful, I do not think I ever noticed that. But when I am using
e-mail it is a bit more difficult as there is no box. Usually a post number is
not mentioned. That the word message# is in grey reduces its visibility. Part
of ergonomic software design is to test a population of typical users and give
them a task and see if they can complete it. Often software designers discover
what seemed obvious to them was in effect, invisible to the typical user, in
which case, if there is time, they make a change. On the other hand the Search
bar at the top is rather prominent. A good design would allow the typing
'message #xx' in that box and would come up with results, but that does not
work unless the message# is in the message itself. If not it returns posts with
the word message in them. So the software has the search routines split into
two separate functions. I see the date functions in Advanced Search now do not
give error messages, but with my browser, still do not return a date range. I
am not usually interested in past posts so I do not use the search functions
that often.
From: "authfri...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]"
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2015 9:30 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: On Gratuitous invasions of privacy
Just popping back in quickly with a helpful note:
It's absurdly easy to find a post via the Website when you have the post
number, which was provided by the moderator in this case. Just go to the
Message View page. At the top, under the banner photo to the right, is a box
labeled "Message #," with a magnifying glass icon. Type the post number in the
box. Hit Return. Voila!
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :
[...] I find it incredibly difficult to find any message even a couple of days
old. Neo has made it very difficult to locate past messages.[...]
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :
[...] Now in a choice of moderation Turqb can go back in and delete this
posting of his post haste and protect his membership status here or will this
be left to the FFL moderators to go in and do it? The choice is Turq's.
-JaiGuruYou
reference: FFL# 416332
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Re: [FairfieldLife] On Gratuitous invasions of privacy
Note that 'Buck' does not appear in the data Yahoo now posts on the group, nor does it appear in the e-mail. And what do we do if someone's real name is part or the whole of their e-mail address, or if the person signs off with their real name somewhere in the e-mail and does not care, and we respond to that? What if we repost an older post and the person's real name was in that? Buck is a nickname, but I assume others might use it where you live. I sometimes use the full e-mail address name, but not the company name (yahoogroups.com for example). What if a person wants to use their real name, are they prohibited? Please clarify. Summary of this message - person's real name in e-mail address - person wants to use real name - person wants to use a nickname that people in real life call him/her by - person's real name appears in older posts - person doesn't care if real name is used - person's real name is posted by person somewhere in e-mail (deliberately) Sincerely, Xenophaneros Anartaxius From: "dhamiltony...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2015 5:00 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] On Gratuitous invasions of privacy “ ..anddon't invade other people's privacy.” Ingoing forward in accord with Rick's original intent for protectingprivacy on FFL know that in responding [replying] to posts made onFFL an unsolicited use of someone's legal name on FFL is an invasionof privacy as it also is considered a violation of the yahoo-groupsguidelines here. Expect to have your writing removed from FFL. Expect to have your posts moderated. Expect to have your membershiprevoked if such invasion of people's privacy continues either as byimpulse without intent or with meditated intent to abuse someone byinvasion of privacy as used in method. Forinstance, as people signing on to FFL do post and people do respondwith replies then for example in reply: 'Turqb isTurqb', 'Fleetwoodis Fleetwood', 'CDB is CDB', 'Serious is Serious', 'Buck is Buck', 'Nablusoss is Nablusoss', and 'Authfriend is Authfriend'. Whatevertheir legal names in life may be, now going forward you shall bemoderate in this as Rick originally intended. Show self-restraintand respect for other people's privacy here. Simple. That is part ofthe communal collaboration asked for in making this a particularfree-speech zone as it was hoped for. Have a nice day, -JaiGuruYou ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Thanks A., good to know. In going forward with moderation on FFL, protection of privacy has always been a mainstay feature of FFL as Rick's free speech list. This feature of protection has been under siege and fallen to a form of a disrespect used by some writers on FFL. Everyone take this as a warning right now going forward: where someone posting to the list uses an anonymous screen name it is quite proper form on FFL as a yahoo-group to respond to posts using a person's screen name and make no mention of their real name otherwise. -JaiGuruYou! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Please ignore what he says about me. He has it completely wrong. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Serious_Richardbrings up in this particular thread an important point about privacyon FFL. From the beginning Rick has been intent on creating asafe-space of privacy for folks to post on FFL. Rick's principlesin creating safe-space have been under attack, degraded andmethodically violated by some writers here evidently to abuse or intimidateother folks personally who have been members of the community of FFL. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Thanksfor offering this, Serious. Yes I feel this is an excellent examplethat you offer of precedence in how to directly moderate a list thathas gone so bad like this. I shall make note of it and emulate Rickin this as much as possible. The yahoo-groups guidelines themselvesare quite simple and require of writers only some self-control. -JaiGuruYou! Just for the record, I should point out that Rick banned me from the group without sending me a single message or email explaining why. So, I appealed to him and he reinstated my posting privileges. Apparently an informant objected to my using their real name, although they had previously posted under their real name. Go figure. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Sad news. The really sad part of this is that [] has not apologized to me for over two decades for posting my real name on a.m.t. Go figure. But, this brings up an interesting subject. From what I've read, has never used her real name on FFL, so I guess that everyone that ever used her real name should be banned from the group. That would include almost
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Moderating The Peep Show
It would appear can correctly spell 'cognitive dissonance'. You
are holding two or more contradictory beliefs and thinking everything is OK?
From: "authfri...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]"
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, June 8, 2015 2:02 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Moderating The Peep Show
In the olden days of FFL, prior to Neo, identities were handled
differently. People's real names appeared in the headers of their posts, along
with their handles, unless they had specified when registering for Yahoo! that
only their handles be used. I did not so specify, and my real name appeared in
my posts' headers. Obviously I have no objection to my real name being used.
That would be pretty silly after all this time.
But, this brings up an interesting subject. From what I've read,
has never used her real name on FFL, so I guess that everyone that ever used
her real name should be banned from the group. That would include almost
everyone currently posting. Can anyone spell cognitive dissonance?
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Is Astrology Science?
On Thursday, May 28, 2015 11:14 PM, Duveyoung wrote: Anartaxius, you ignorant slut. So, in replying to my criticism you are consorting with prostitutes and those of dim and unlearned intelligence? Seems like a good fit. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :On Wednesday, May 27, 2015 10:44 PM, Duveyoung wrote:Seems to me that since a single photon of light hitting a dark-conditioned retina can trigger a change in the flow of consciousness -- a single photon could possibly be a tipping point's "final straw" and so, an infant's-personality-that's-ever-so-fragile could thereby get hard-wired into a "something or other." I think we discussed this point some weeks ago. a single photon of light likely, on the basis of experiment, can affect the retina of the eye, but it is not an event the becomes conscious because the impulse does not get any further than this in the nervous system. I used "dark-conditioned retina" which I believe DOES send a full message to the brain about a single photon, but one or a dozen, so what? The evidence is that a very small amount of light can be registered in consciousness -- which could be a tipping point experience. EMPHASIS ON "COULD." The issue is whether such an event in consciousness could be some sort of keystone in an upside down pyramid -- we know the concept "tipping point" is valid, and we know the infant is "brand new" and ready for "imprinting like a baby bird" MAYBE. See the word "maybe" there? Yes, but belief is not evidence. And the evidence of the experiments shows that while it is likely a single photon could affect the retina, considerably more photons are required for the signal to get sent from the retina further up the processing chain. There is a difference between a 'small amount of light' and a single photon. So far there has never been an experimental result where a single photon was noticed. In fact scientifically 'an event in consciousness' is undefined because there is no scientific definition of consciousness. I am aware of the 'tipping point' concept (the writings of Malcolm Gladwell), but if there is no evidence that a single photon can have effects to the extent you would like to believe. You seem to be looking for some frail excuse to have jyotish somehow work even when your own experience demonstrates it failed. Now if you had an infant just at birth, don't you think all the activity surrounded by the birth would have a much much larger impact on the child's experience? We encounter things all life long that appear to tip us in one direction or another. And many things that have more mass and energy than a single photon impact us everyday so looking for the tiniest, least effective impact to be the tipping point seems like a wasted opportunity and clearly on the borderlands of irrationality. Of course, it's hard to imagine a research scenario that could measure such thing. But I mention this as a viable concept for this discussion, because of the research on the "dirty water that is purified by radiation" -- "purified" means anything-not-water gets separated out. I'll link below to the research, as I have done several times here at FFL, You did not link to the research, you linked to a YouTube video. That is not scientific research. Pollack supposedly published this research in a low quality on-line journal called Water, but it turns out, what was uploaded was not a scientific paper, but a page listing the table of contents of his book, purchasable elsewhere. So no published research at all, just advertising. This is the abstract for the article, which is not an abstract for research but a sales pitch: So what? Do I need to do a Steve-Martin-EXCUSE ME? for using "research?" Give me a break -- it's clear that the "error" you underline is not germane to the discussion -- do you admit this? Are you not just a little bit happy to get in here and show me up as a less-than-top-notch-thinker? Aand, if I'm not top-notch, who the fuck are you to try to rub my nose in it? Is someone smarter than you chafing your ass and I'm the only one you can take it out on? Do you go around besting children at trivia games or what? Your attitude belongs on a PhD orals-exam -- not here at FFL for Christ's sake. You seem to be attracted to bad science. If you are using 'research' to support your contention, then certainly it is germane to the discussion. In the manner of your reply you seem to be underlining the words 'less-than-top-notch thinker' with a broad brush. We do have such conversations on FFL all the time. You are just not here very often. The video shows that research was done and that there's probably some paperwork to back it up. Did I say I have PROOF? The video SUGGESTS that light somehow helps water to purify. It shows actual experiments being conducted. The guy is legit, credentialed, and what the video shows is very interesting, and I thi
Re: [FairfieldLife] Is Astrology Science?
On Wednesday, May 27, 2015 10:44 PM, Duveyoung wrote: Seems to me that since a single photon of light hitting a dark-conditioned retina can trigger a change in the flow of consciousness -- a single photon could possibly be a tipping point's "final straw" and so, an infant's-personality-that's-ever-so-fragile could thereby get hard-wired into a "something or other." I think we discussed this point some weeks ago. a single photon of light likely, on the basis of experiment, can affect the retina of the eye, but it is not an event the becomes conscious because the impulse does not get any further than this in the nervous system. Of course, it's hard to imagine a research scenario that could measure such thing. But I mention this as a viable concept for this discussion, because of the research on the "dirty water that is purified by radiation" -- "purified" means anything-not-water gets separated out. I'll link below to the research, as I have done several times here at FFL, You did not link to the research, you linked to a YouTube video. That is not scientific research. Pollack supposedly published this research in a low quality on-line journal called Water, but it turns out, what was uploaded was not a scientific paper, but a page listing the table of contents of his book, purchasable elsewhere. So no published research at all, just advertising. This is the abstract for the article, which is not an abstract for research but a sales pitch: 'The following paragraphs are reproduced from the website of the publisher [1]. Professor Pollack takes us on a fantastic voyage through water, showing us a hidden universe teeming with physical activity that provides answers so simple that any curious person can understand. In conversational prose, Pollack lays a simple foundation for understanding how changes in water’s structure underlie most energetic transitions of form and motion on earth.' The citation footnote [1] in the abstract did not refer to any information either, not being a link or reference to anything else on the page. Not that that's a proof of astrology's main axiom, but that that indicates that light is VERY impacting at the subtlest of levels. There is very very much proof about instant printing. We see birds immediately attach "that's my parent" to anything that moves when it is first born. We know this kind of global psychological "hardening" is seen across the biological spectrum. Us human beings too? Why not? We know that trauma can do this. Why not the first light that floods the newborn's eye? I paid good bucks to eleven jyotishi-types. Nothing came true, no one "nailed me," I was never warned about something, and no insights into what I'd been in the past, and they all majorly disagreed with each other. And all of them were consulted EXACTLY WHEN I NEEDED ADVICE THE MOST -- my life troubles during that time were the WORST of my life, but no jyotish person warned or saw this. So don't try to sell me any more jyotish, but don't toss it out with the western astrology bathwater. I think the "light is synchronous" (not causal) concept has traction. It's just that science is not up to examining it, and probably won't be for another 100 years. A good experiential observation that jyotish/astrology is hokum. Water, Energy, and Life: Fresh Views From the Water's Edge ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : What possible difference can those things make? The fact that astrology and astronomy have common roots only means that eventually those who created and followed the SCIENTIFIC method and way began to require real evidence for their theories and ideas. The astrologers on the other hand continued to rely on mystical ideas that have never been validated. Isaac Newton was a scientist and an alchemist. The fact that he pursued some non-scientific mumbo jumbo does not take away from his scientific achievements nor does it validate his mystical endeavors or make alchemy as he practiced it a science. From: "Bhairitu noozguru@... [FairfieldLife]" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2015 4:47 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Is Astrology Science? My bet is the only astrology thewriters are familiar with is western or tropical astrology. Theyprobably don't even know what jyotish is. And I bet they don'tknow that astronomy came as the result of astrology nor thatKepler's day job was making charts for astrologers. So hedeveloped better methods of determining orbits. On 05/27/2015 01:31 PM, Michael Jackson mjackson74@...[FairfieldLife] wrote: Astrology:Is it scientific? | | | | | | | | | | | Astrology: Is itscientific?In some ways,astrology may seem scientific. It usesscientific knowledge about heavenlybodies, as well as scientific soundingtools, like star charts. | | | | View on undsci.berkeley.edu | Preview by Yahoo | | | | | #yi
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Rise of the machines?
On Wednesday, May 27, 2015 12:24 PM, "steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]"
wrote:
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Re: [FairfieldLife] The Culture of Organizational Groups/Sociology
Well, Johnson got a lot of legislation passed. He knew how to deal and had the leverage to do it. He did not use the concepts of transcendent or dharma in that speech. He never struck me as a spiritual person and his use of the word 'God' in the speech seems the perfunctory inclusion that seems to be required in American politics. And probably he only touched up a speech written by his speech writers anyway. And he was a racist in spite of all of that: Lyndon Johnson was a civil rights hero. But also a racist. | | | | | | | | | | | Lyndon Johnson was a civil rights hero. But also a racis...Lyndon Johnson was a racist. He was also the greatest champion of racial equality to occupy the White House since Lincoln. | | | | View on www.msnbc.com | Preview by Yahoo | | | | | The office a man holds sometimes allows him to rise above his baser instincts. However in spite of all this, the events of the last half year or so show that what he accomplished has not erased the problems of race or poverty, of inequality; if anything they have taken on a more intense and subtle mantle of discord in this country. From: "dhamiltony...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, May 22, 2015 2:04 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] The Culture of Organizational Groups/Sociology LBJ is actually a good exampleof the rhetoric of leadership within millenarian revolution. [notice spelling with one 'n', not millennial] change. For instance LBJ's articulationof transcendent and larger promises in America of an evolvingdharma-like progression of equal rights for all. Gathering peoplein, see what and how he said it. Read a few of the first fewparagraphs where he lays things out and see how he reaches for it inrhetoric. He was quite successful with “The Great Society” andthen with civil rights and voting rights legislation in turn. Was aremarkable point of leadership in broad cultural change. Time was ripeand he led rhetorically. Text of “The AmericanPromise”.. President Lyndon B. Johnson's Special Message to the Congress: The American Promise March 15, 1965 || || President Lyndon B. Johnson's Special Message to the Congress: The American Promise March 15,... President Lyndon B. Johnson's Special Message to the Congress: The American Promise March 15, 1965 [As delivered in person before a joint session at 9:02 p.m.] || | View on www.lbjlib.utexas.edu |Preview by Yahoo| || You can watch him deliver it on YouTube.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NvPhiuGZ6I ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Anartaxiussays here that millenarians, 'they seem to never take the directionand form intended'. Never? It could be well argued that these fourmillenarians created broad and lasting cultural changes, forinstance. It is informative in an examination of organizations andtheir sociology to look at how in leadership they went about doingit, by contrast. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Yes, Doug, but transformations occur in society almost as a matter of course, but they never seem to take the direction and character that those who believed there was an upcoming transition would have it. So having a belief, which is a pretence to knowledge, one's imagination of what might be or is, is simply a superfluous mental attitude that traps the mind in a particular rut while the world goes on its merry way. Obviously these beliefs, even if they are wrong which they tend to be, do have an influence on the progress of change because they alter a person's behaviour, but the underlying forces of change are not concerned with imagination. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Mao, Maharishi with his 'Ideal Society', even LBj with his 'Great Society', also Roosevelt and the 'New Deal' by effect in culture were the larger 'revolutionary millenarians' of the last Century with their leadership towards creating 'Heavens on Earth'. As a study I find it informative to look at their speeches for the language that activated people and brought people along in revolution, by contrast with a TM movement of this Century which in its own character of leadership has been unable and in decline for 40 years. The contrast around 'inclusiveness' is stark. Millenarianism (also millenarism)is the belief by a religious, social, or political group or movementin a coming major transformation of society, after which all thingswill be changed. Millennialism [by contrast] isa specific form of millenarianism based on a one-thousand-year cycle,which many sects of different religions believe. AChaney, Princeton.edu http://www.princeton.edu/~achaney/tmve/wiki100k/docs/Millenarianism.html Revolutionary as an adjective, the term revolutionary refers to something that has amajor, sudden impact on society or on some aspect of human endeavor.Dictionary.com ht
Re: [FairfieldLife] The Culture of Organizational Groups/Sociology
Doug, if I may pull a Judy on you, I said that (in slightly different words) the changes that occur in society seem to not turn out the way the drivers of change intended. I did not use the word 'millenarians' because most who have been the fount of ideas for change seldom used a 1,000 year cycle as their goal post. Millenarians are just a small subset of all those who desire and imagine change. For example, Lyndon Johnson's 'Great Society' had much more immediate goals, as did the 'New Deal' of Roosevelt. Many of the programs set up in the 'New Deal' and in the 'Great Society' appear to be leading to a profound fiscal crisis for the United States, as is now happening in Greece, where government programs there have resulted in a situation where they can only be maintained by borrowing money from other countries, but there is a limit on how long that is viable. It seems almost certain now that Greece will be forced out of the European Union as a result and be forced to print their own currency, which will then devalue rather rapidly for a while. This kind of ostentatious 'millenarial' thinking tends to lead to disaster in the longer run. Sometimes I think millinarians develop because their immediate goals, such as 'to develop the full potential of the individual; improve governmental achievements; realize the highest ideal of education; eliminate the problems of crime and all behaviour that brings unhappiness to the family of man; maximize the intelligent use of the environment; bring fulfilment to the economic aspirations of individuals and society; and achieve the spiritual goals of mankind in this generation', failed to happen and so they let the fulfilment day slide off into the future a bit, and then a bit more, and then quite a bit more. Early Christians expected the return of Christ rather immediately, but now that date has slide off the scales at about 2,000 years, and it keeps slipping. Millenarians are incompetent time keepers, because they are out of touch with reality even more than the average Joe who has more immediate goals within his/her lifetime. From: "dhamiltony...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015 1:59 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] The Culture of Organizational Groups/Sociology Anartaxiussays here that millenarians, 'they seem to never take the directionand form intended'. Never? It could be well argued that these fourmillenarians created broad and lasting cultural changes, forinstance. It is informative in an examination of organizations andtheir sociology to look at how in leadership they went about doingit, by contrast. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Yes, Doug, but transformations occur in society almost as a matter of course, but they never seem to take the direction and character that those who believed there was an upcoming transition would have it. So having a belief, which is a pretence to knowledge, one's imagination of what might be or is, is simply a superfluous mental attitude that traps the mind in a particular rut while the world goes on its merry way. Obviously these beliefs, even if they are wrong which they tend to be, do have an influence on the progress of change because they alter a person's behaviour, but the underlying forces of change are not concerned with imagination. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Mao, Maharishi with his 'Ideal Society', even LBj with his 'Great Society', also Roosevelt and the 'New Deal' by effect in culture were the larger 'revolutionary millenarians' of the last Century with their leadership towards creating 'Heavens on Earth'. As a study I find it informative to look at their speeches for the language that activated people and brought people along in revolution, by contrast with a TM movement of this Century which in its own character of leadership has been unable and in decline for 40 years. The contrast around 'inclusiveness' is stark. Millenarianism (also millenarism)is the belief by a religious, social, or political group or movementin a coming major transformation of society, after which all thingswill be changed. Millennialism [by contrast] isa specific form of millenarianism based on a one-thousand-year cycle,which many sects of different religions believe. AChaney, Princeton.edu http://www.princeton.edu/~achaney/tmve/wiki100k/docs/Millenarianism.html Revolutionary as an adjective, the term revolutionary refers to something that has amajor, sudden impact on society or on some aspect of human endeavor.Dictionary.com http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutionary ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Maharishi's Little Blaze-Orange Book Maharishi’s Absolute Theory of Defence | Maharishi University Press | | | | | | Maharishi’s Absolute Theory of Defence | Maharishi Univ... Maharishi offers the indomitable strength of invincibility t
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: For those who don't believe in conspiracies
At least Doug is inspiring interesting replies, which partially accounts for FFL having at least 3 times the number of posts as The Peak since about May 17. The contrast of viewpoints is the driver of inspiration in some and displeasure in others. In scientific discussions, people argue and eventually some headway is made. In spiritual circles, people argue and little headway is ever made because the arguments are over imaginary things instead of real things. If spirituality ever really adopted evidence for its claims, progress could be made in settling many points of dispute. There is a certain lack of honesty that permeates spiritual discourse. A note (published in 1794) by Thomas Paine, one of the instigators of the American Revolution, regarding religious thinking (Paine was something of a Deist by the way, not an atheist): 'All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian, or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit. I do not mean by this declaration to condemn those who believe otherwise; they have the same right to their belief as I have to mine. But it is necessary to the happiness of man, that he be mentally faithful to himself. Infidelity does not consist in believing, or in disbelieving; it consists in professing to believe what he does not believe.' 'It is impossible to calculate the moral mischief, if I may so express it, that mental lying has produced in society. When a man has so far corrupted and prostituted the chastity of his mind, as to subscribe his professional belief to things he does not believe, he has prepared himself for the commission of every other crime. He takes up the trade of a priest for the sake of gain, and, in order to qualify himself for that trade, he begins with a perjury. Can we conceive anything more destructive to morality than this?' From: "TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" To: "FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com" Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015 1:26 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: For those who don't believe in conspiracies What Doug fails to understand -- yet again -- is that you don't protect people from conspiracy theories by "moderating" (Buck's word for "banning") those claims. You protect people by raising their awareness of how to think without falling into the traps that conspiracy theorists prey on, and by teaching them how to analyze ANY claim to see if it holds up when compared to science, logic, and Occam's Razor. To really do this, and protect people, this kind of education needs to start in elementary school and then be carried forward throughout the remainder of one's education. Students need to be taught how to analyze claims made by religion, by cults, by politicians, and by those with an agenda who want them to buy into their conspiracy theories/agenda. Why I'm bothering to write this is that in reality the person who has been most consistent in trying to sell conspiracy theories to people on FFL is *Doug himself*. *He* is the one claims that there is a conspiracy of evil-intentioned people to drive away the "real" spiritual people by creating an atmosphere in which claims can actually BE examined in the way I suggest above. *He* is the one trying to ban people like me and Sal and Michael, who are in fact trying to present to those who tend to fall for claims without analyzing them thoroughly ways in which they really could and should analyze such claims. Buck wants a world in which *He* gets to decide what's "appropriate" to be said and what isn't. None of the people he wants to ban from FFL want that. We want, in fact,the opposite. We would like to see a forum in which everyone is free to challenge and analyze ANY claim, whether it is made by TB TMers or people who don't like TM and the TMO very much. Sal and Michael and I have been advocating the very thing that Buck *claims* to support here, but that his actual behavior has clearly shown that he hates, and is trying to prevent. He'd like to "moderate away" the people who actually subject claims to analysis. We would like to see more such analysis. From: "dhamiltony...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" Yep,conspiracy theorizing is sort of like nicotine to an addiction toharder things that become perniciously asocial like, “Themost unbalanced members of a society, when exposed to these ideas,can be driven to commit terrible acts, including assault and massmurder”. Conspiracy theorizing should be moderated by everyone for everyone'sprotection. A strong protection against conspiracy theorists is in avital and strong free public education for all citizens, at the least, that starts early and is sustained in to adulthood providing the critical skill-setsto have a more widely informed citizenry. -JaiGuruYou! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Re: Conspiracy theories as addiction, here's
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why the whiny hysteria we see with Barry is his own fault
We are all crazy. Who in their right mind would spend so many years in pursuit of 'the absolute' whose description (no qualities) is exactly the same as nothing. Admittedly, it has been a lot of fun. At the core of everything, a vast blank to which we attribute all. Because to talk about it we have to concoct attributes, thus spending all our time making up shit about it to convince others it is somehow more real than what they are currently thinking . Or we adopt other people's made up shit and regurgitate it to others, or re-purpose it to others. The reason it is fun is because it engages the intellect and the creative process, to make up stuff about nothing, and make it seem as if it is something. Kind of like being a deity. Steve, I do not think you understand the process that the Zen people call 'dharma combat', which on FFL tends to settle into personal rivalry rather than illumination. The ideas expressed are what is important, not the people. As the Joker said to Batman 'you complete me'. If you are engaged, a process is working to completion. That means a process of expansion is happening. The whole spiritual arc is about completion. Those who are ignored should be considered unworthy of the journey. Think of it in a positive light. From: "steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 12:13 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why the whiny hysteria we see with Barry is his own fault Barry, you are fuckin' crazy? Admit it, you live for this stuff. Any sane person would simply ignore posters they don't like. But, you? You become fully engaged. Seriously, my friend, try to find something of interest besides Jim Flanegin and The_Peak. No matter what anyone tells you, you do have options. Remember Judy? Well, she doesn't post here because she realized the reality of diminishing returns. You, on the other hand, have no such understanding. Good luck. Oh, sorry about Paris. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Too sad for words. Now we know what an "enlightened" person -- someone who claims to have achieved "the peak" in life -- does with his time. He looks up a number of old posts from someone he doesn't like, carefully snips passages from them and concatenates them together to give the impression that they were all written at once in a big "wall of words," and posts them in an attempt to further demonize the person he doesn't like. What were the terms a couple of this dweeb's followers posted recently on FFL, claiming that they deplored such tactics? "Misrepresentation?" "Straw man arguments?" This appears to be the counterpart of what Mr. Enlightened was doing shortly before he ran away from FFL with his tail between his legs. Back then he spent hours scouring the Internet for photographs of the same person he didn't like, cropped and modified them in Photoshop to make them look more embarrassing than they really were, and then posted them to FFL. Here he's doing the same thing, only with words. For the record -- and for the benefit of his followers on The_Leak, who we all know will be reading this on FFL -- this is a person who claims to be enlightened, demonstrating how he believes an enlightened person should act. Even if you ignore the total lack of ethics involved in this little exercise in lashing out, you have to wonder how someone supposedly "enlightened" and representing "the peak" of human achievement has that much hatred in his heart and time on his hands... :-) From: "reverse_archery@... [FairfieldLife]" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2015 10:12 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why the whiny hysteria we see with Barry is his own fault Will someone please tell Barry that he is welcome to submit his application to me, for membership over at The Peak, at any time. But I do have a small requirement for him first, not reflected in his writing below: mental stability. Thanks. What's always boggled my mind is how many of the people whohave *BEEN* "kept in line" by TM teachers and "Governors of theAge of Enlightenment" (I mean...just *think* about that term, and thatpeople are *so* brainwashed that they take it for granted and never questionit) react. Rather than resenting having been told what they can and cannot doand what they can and cannot think for years by these dweebs, *they aspire tobe just like them*. Thus you find people like Jim Flanegin, who never had whatit took to become a TM teacher, wanting to become just like them and impose hiswill on others and force them to live the way *he* wants them to. In a veryreal sense, this strikes me as the same kind of "inherited behavior"we see in victims of child abuse. Instead of growing up to hate such abuse,they tend to grow up to become abusers themselves. I find the very existence of"The_Leak" quite fascinating. It started because one person on FFL(Jim Flaneg
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: For those interested in the "Neo-Advaita" phenomenon
Narcissistic tendencies are at the heart of ego. We all have them. We all know
how great we are in spite of THEM. What we tend not to know is how our
tendencies fit into the world at large. Gurus in particular have a propensity
to get caught in a bubble of adoration and those narcissistic tendencies can
spiral out of control if they are strong. I sometimes wonder if individuals who
are more withdrawn in this way might be better spiritual teachers eventually.
One problem is followers seem to like and gravitate to a commanding figure,
someone who seems in control of his/her life. A follower tends to be looking
for a way out of a definite weakness in this regard, and wants to be told what
to do to 'fix' their life. This is an inevitable recipe for disaster. And, it
often seems to me, once a follower has acquired some (not a lot) of spiritual
memes and some experience, the innate narcissism we have tends to wrap itself
around that new spiritualised identity. For now we 'know' we have something all
those other unenlightened ass-holes do not have. Except of course that is
entirely untrue. In many ways we have become worse than the people we look down
upon for failing to see our new found 'truth'. This problem will persist
through all stages of 'consciousness' a person experiences, and even persists
after a clear awakening and will probably take years following that before it
is adequately moderated.
From: "steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]"
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 12:16 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: For those interested in the "Neo-Advaita"
phenomenon
Barry,
Has it ever occurred to you, how "obsessed" you are with NPD?
Do you think that says something?
I'd say it's one of the great loves of your life, along with Judy Stein.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :
Here's an interesting "apology" letter from one of the most embarrassing
examples of "Neo-Advaita" teaching ever, Andrew Cohen.
If you're interesting in this particular branch of spiritual craziness, I
advise skimming the "mea culpa" letter (which I regard as total bullshit and
being as clearly symptomatic of Narcissistic Personality Disorder as many of
Robin Carlsen's similar "mea culpa" postings), and instead reading through many
of the comments, especially the one from Rick Taylor. You might also look up
comments made by Cohen's *mother*, who became his student at one point, and was
told "to give way to him or their relationship would end" and forbidden
"toexpress an opinion on anything". She says that she "knew if I
seriouslyobjected to anything, I'd be kicked out" and stated that her
son,formerly the "sweetest, sensitive kid, had changed into anunrecognizable
tyrant."
All in all, this is an example of how badly a supposed spiritual teaching can
go wrong, when people are stupid enough to just believe someone when they claim
to be "enlightened." It also points out the problems with this whole faux
"lineage" of Neo-Advaitans: "One of the tragedies of Poonjaji's teaching
ministry is that he eithertold, inferred, or allowed hundreds of individuals to
believe they werefully enlightened simply because they'd had one, or many,
powerfulexperiences of awakening. These "enlightened" teachers then proceeded
toenlighten their own students in a similar way, and thus was born whatis known
as the "neo-Advaita", or "satsang" movement in western culture."
An open letter to all my former students upon return from my sabbatical.
| |
| | | | | |
| An open letter to all my former students upon return from my sabbatical.Dear
Ones, It has been almost 2 years since the structures of our shared Utopian
experiment collapsed so violently and so completely. It’s also been almost that
long that I have dropped out of sight. |
| |
| View on www.andrewcohen.org | Preview by Yahoo |
| |
| |
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Have you had an experience of higher states of consciousness? Please FORWARD!
Hallucination is really the crux of the matter. The basic premise of
'enlightenment' is we are somehow not experiencing reality but some kind of
hallucination. Once we get that idea in our head we become a seeker, looking
for a way out of the hallucination, but the basic problem here is we are
seeking enlightenment while under the influence of the hallucination, so it
would seem to be am extreme improbability that we could ever get out from under
it. Obviously then, as a seeker, one is going to make lots of mistakes as to
the nature and success of the enterprise because we are under the influence of
the hallucinatory dream. In other words, the whole path as laid out by a
teacher, is in hallucinatory terms in our own minds, and if the teacher is
authentic, the teacher knows this too and so they will try to shape your
hallucination in a way to get you out from under it. But often it is a losing
battle because the student takes the teaching as reality rather than as a
method to get him/her to take the matter in his/her own hands and examine one's
own assumptions about the whole process.
While doing some tabulating of old posts on FFL, I came across a comment Barry
made to Judy, maybe 10 years ago or so. To paraphrase it, it was something like
'you prefer consistency to reality, reality is messy'. Doug too is trying to
maintain some kind of consistency in his unimaginative one-note rants, but
reality is not co-operating, it keeps trying to show him the world is
variegated beyond his own individual desires. It gives us opportunities to
explore and riff on ideas based on his simple rants, and we can do this by
branching off on just about any subject related to the concept of
enlightenment. But Doug never varies, staying in a self-imposed rut, a mental
prison based on a desire for consistency to a few ideas. Reality is a paradox
because it contains stability and non-stability both, and we remain in a prison
of our own making when we try to hold onto one side or the other of that
paradox; when we want change it throws stagnation at us, and when we want
stability, it pulls the rug out from under our feet.
From: "TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]"
To: "FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com"
Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2015 2:26 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Have you had an experience of higher states
of consciousness? Please FORWARD!
From: salyavin808
Another serious hallucination from "Buck". This place was never "hijacked" but
some people joined with - gasp - different opinions about what it all means,
both the TM organisation and the experiences that result from regular spiritual
practise.
And it has to be said that the so-called neganauts (people with different
opinions to Doug) have all talked at length about spiritual experiences with TM
and various other techniques and drugs. In fact, the only ones that have never
mentioned their own visions on the path are the three whiners who never stop
trying to drag the place down. They know who they are. Funny that.
So here's a challenge for you Doug, I've talked at length about my spiritual
experiences, why don't you have a go and share the obviously vast amount of
self-knowledge you must have gained from a lifetime sitting in the dome?
Be the change you want to see on FFL
Yeah, like that will happen. At this point, pretty much everyone who has been
following the forum knows that the only people here actually *having* any
spiritual experiences to talk about are the ones who gave up on TM. :-)
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 10 reasons why Judy quit FFL and why she returned
The subject she seemed most interested in near the time she quit FFL was
classical theism. But I have no idea if she was really interested in the
subject, she seemed interested in it, but of course she had no confidence in my
powers of perception to divine what her real motives were for anything.
From: aryavazhi
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2015 11:05 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: 10 reasons why Judy quit FFL and why she returned
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :
- She injured both arms, now she got voice recognition software.
- Her eyesight got really bad, and she had to wait so long for an operation.
- Writing on FFL upset her so much, so the doctor told her to stop.
- She converted to Catholizism and stopped TM.
- She got a job.
- She had a near-death experience, but has been revived.
- Barry bribed her to leave, but he didn't pay the last check.
- The most important letter on her keyboard, the L, (to write liar) broke,
now she found she can substitute it with a 1.
- She had an apparition of Maharishi / Guru Dev /Jesus / Robin /.., who told
her to stop FFL
- Your call...
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Free Coffee
I was meeting someone at Starbucks, at a location convenient to us both, and
there are many Starbucks around where I live, and few alternatives within a
reasonable driving distance. I usually make my own coffee. Also American coffee
tastes are different than those of Europeans, though I used to get coffee from
Mr. Peet when I lived on the West Coast of the U.S. Peet freely helped
Starbucks set up in Seattle by giving them the benefit of his knowledge;
Starbucks basically commercialised his model on a much larger scale, and of
course something was lost. Peet's Coffee now is in other hands and the rich
variety he provided has given way to a more commercial offering. I have not
been in a Peet's coffee store in 40 years, so I don't know if they continued in
the manner he set up his original shops, but Peet's coffee in grocery stores
here does not have much variety offered. That the United States has in some
areas better coffee than in the past is largely due to him. Peet learned his
trade in his family's coffee business before WWII in Alkmaar, Netherlands,
which is about 55km from Leiden. I have some Peet's coffee at home, but I will
tolerate instant coffee when I am lazy, but I usually cannot stand instant
coffee black. Most of the restaurants around here have terrible coffee.
From: salyavin808
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2015 8:43 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Free Coffee
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :
Probably works for people who want tograb some coffee in a hurry. Starbucks
was not intended to be areplacement for European cappuccino bars. But you may
recall inthe 1970s boomers didn't like coffee because it gave them thejitters
and the coffee industry even ran TV promos trying to getfolks hooked again. I
didn't drink coffee back then until Istarted working downtown Seattle about
1980 and would grabsomething to eat and drink on my way to my temp job. One
can findespresso made like they do in Europe in classic Italianrestaurants
around here. I'm not talking Olive Garden either. ;-)
I had a Starbucks once, and that was only because I got a free voucher in some
newspaper. I asked for a cappucino and took it back because I thought they'd
forgot to put the coffee in. They made me another with an extra shot and it
still tasted like someone had dipped a single grain of nescafe in some warm
milk.
How they make a global brand out of it I don't know, it must be consistency.
The local independent cafes round here make either a consistently bland brew or
a fantastic cup one day or something that tastes like lukewarm creosote the
next. Or occasionally they are always good but ruinously expensive. Costa are
the only place that I can rely on outside London but I stopped going there when
they shrank the size of the cakes recently. Did they think we wouldn't notice?
On 04/24/2015 10:55 PM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@...[FairfieldLife] wrote:
The only Starbucks in my town isat the central train station. Almost no one
goesthere because in the Netherlands almost everycafe can make a better cup of
coffee andliterally every cafe has better ambiance. Justgoes to show ya that
"globalization" only worksif the globe wants what you're sellin'...
From:"anartaxius@... [FairfieldLife]"
To:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent:Saturday, April 25, 2015 5:54 AM
Subject:[FairfieldLife] Free Coffee
Ihappened to be at a Starbucks today,and the registers had just stoppedworking
even though they were stillturned on. I got a free coffee. Thebarista was on
the phone with theirtechnical help and said the networksystem had somehow gone
down. Saved mea small bit of cash. They put a signon the store that they could
serve nomore.
Thenews later this evening: Starbucks:Computer Outage Disrupts Sales inUS,
Canada
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| Starbucks:Computer Outage DisruptsSales in US, CanadaA computer outage
affecting salesregisters disrupted salesFriday at 8,000company-operated
Starbucksstores in the UnitedStates and Canada. Stores... |
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| Starbucks:Computer Outage DisruptsSales in US, Canada
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|Starbucks:ComputerOutageDisrupts Salesin US,
CanadaAcomputeroutageaffectingsalesregistersdisruptedsales Fridayat
8,000company-operatedStarbucksstores in theUnited Statesand Canada.Stores ... |
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| View on abcnews.go.com| Preview by Yahoo |
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: List Culture and The FFL Post Count
From: "authfri...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]"
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2015 5:23 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: List Culture and The FFL Post Count
Nope, has nothing to do with the "tactic" you invented and falsely
attribute to TM supporters in that post, except insofar as the post represents
your futile and laughable attempt to slaughter the elephant.
Just as an example of how ludicrous your Big Game Hunter efforts are: In a
post to Xeno today, first you declare that there is something terribly wrong
with True Believers. Then in the very next paragraph, you claim that what's
wrong with them is that they think there's something wrong with unbelievers.
(You were completely oblivious to this spectacular piece of chop-logic. Xeno
may catch it, but if he does, he won't mention it, because he doesn't dare
cross you.)
Barry and I seem to agree more or less on a number of subjects. Also I do not
read everything he writes, and I am sure he does not read everything I write. I
really don't care if Barry is trashing others on this forum. He has certain
points of view and he expresses them. They are typically not highly refined
logical tropes; more like fishing with a shotgun. Which side I take on an
argument is a choice, though the nature of choice is somewhat of a mystery if
one takes into account what we know of the laws of nature, and the nature of
the mind as we experience it via these spiritual technologies such as
meditation.
To me a true believer simply has a mental stance toward some subject that is
based on imagination more than fact. For example the concept of rights is
something we manufacture for our benefit. This is not an idea I invented, for
example I heard the lawyer Alan Dershowitz (who retired from teaching law at
Harvard a couple of years ago) say the same thing. Rights do not exist outside
our minds; we create rights to make our society run more smoothly; they can be
a good thing (and 'good' is another manufactured concept). Now that there is
more factual information on why sexual orientation happens the way it happens,
creating a right to make society less abrasive toward certain people can be
based on factual information rather on than abstract and unprovable
formulations such as morality.
Further to that post: One wonders how your and Xeno's formulations would apply
to, say, a True Believer in gay rights who thinks there's something wrong with
homophobes (and of course the homophobes think there's something wrong with the
TBs who champion gay rights).
After all, you did say:
In a very real sense, being a True Believer -- in pretty much *anything* -- is
a form of handicap. TBs are cripples or "impaired persons," in that they lack
abilities that others around them take for granted. What is worse is that they
don't *know* that they are crippled.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :
From: "authfriend@... [FairfieldLife]"
Just a word about the elephant in the room that the thug apologists have so
carefully been tiptoeing around: It was never criticism of TM/the TMO/MMY that
TM supporters found intolerable. It was the relentless vicious and dishonest
personal attacks, led by Barry, on those TM supporters that finally triggered
the mass exodus to The Peak. Barry and his gang of thugs know this but are
doing their best to make it appear otherwise, because the truth is embarrassing.
I see that since she's been gone Judy has developed the same "spotty reading"
habits she used to deride. She's foolishly attempting to use a tactic I already
described in a post made only yesterday. :-) :-) :-)
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/413925
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :
From: "authfriend@... [FairfieldLife]"
Just a word about the elephant in the room that the thug apologists have so
carefully been tiptoeing around: It was never criticism of TM/the TMO/MMY that
TM supporters found intolerable. It was the relentless vicious and dishonest
personal attacks, led by Barry, on those TM supporters that finally triggered
the mass exodus to The Peak. Barry and his gang of thugs know this but are
doing their best to make it appear otherwise, because the truth is embarrassing.
I see that since she's been gone Judy has developed the same "spotty reading"
habits she used to deride. She's foolishly attempting to use a tactic I already
described in a post made only yesterday. :-) :-) :-)
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/413925
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: List Culture and The FFL Post Count
From: "authfri...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]"
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2015 5:23 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: List Culture and The FFL Post Count
Nope, has nothing to do with the "tactic" you invented and falsely
attribute to TM supporters in that post, except insofar as the post represents
your futile and laughable attempt to slaughter the elephant.
Just as an example of how ludicrous your Big Game Hunter efforts are: In a
post to Xeno today, first you declare that there is something terribly wrong
with True Believers. Then in the very next paragraph, you claim that what's
wrong with them is that they think there's something wrong with unbelievers.
(You were completely oblivious to this spectacular piece of chop-logic. Xeno
may catch it, but if he does, he won't mention it, because he doesn't dare
cross you.)
Further to that post: One wonders how your and Xeno's formulations would apply
to, say, a True Believer in gay rights who thinks there's something wrong with
homophobes (and of course the homophobes think there's something wrong with the
TBs who champion gay rights).
After all, you did say:
In a very real sense, being a True Believer -- in pretty much *anything* -- is
a form of handicap. TBs are cripples or "impaired persons," in that they lack
abilities that others around them take for granted. What is worse is that they
don't *know* that they are crippled.
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: List Culture and The FFL Post Count
From: "dhamiltony...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]"
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 5:05 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: List Culture and The FFL Post Count
For the sake of there beingmaterial divergent view represented on FFL given the
hostile climatethat came over FFL I have volunteered here many times the voice
ofthe tru-believer and for my effort have been heaped on in return withpersonal
invective of abuse from what has become an endemicintellectual intolerance here.
Most of the people here probably went through a true-believer stage, at least
to some extent, and this probably includes most of those here with whom you
disagree. So these people can at least understand your position, but the
important point is a true-believer cannot understand the position of someone
who is outside that belief. Stable belief keeps the mind in a narrow range of
options of unreality, for a belief is a substitute for direct experience, it is
the mind's ossified interpretation of experience.
A belief is simply a thought that one is convinced is true. Evidence is of no
concern. A belief is essentially an opinion, emotionally held so tight it
cannot be let go of. A belief is a pretence of knowledge. It stands in place of
knowledge. To get out of the mind trap of belief, one has to see that beliefs
are not real; this happens if the mind expands enough. Only then can you see
how well thought corresponds to experience, to facts, and it is an ongoing
battle to be able to do this because it is part of the structure of human minds
to have a certain level of gullibility built in, so self-deception is always
around the corner.
Once a person has managed to off-load various sets of beliefs, to them people
whose minds are fixed in a small range of ideas which they cannot let go of
appear basically as idiots. Up to a point there is a certain amount of
compassion for such a person because most of us were in that vice ourselves,
but if someone is so impacted by belief that they never budge, such a one is an
unforgivable idiot, having turned their back on expansion of mind and
experience in favour of a mental rut, a mental prison from which they will not
emerge.
In order to break the repetitive cycle of belief, one has to honestly consider
any idea one has as possibly and even likely being untrue. Once that stance is
acquired, it becomes easier to evaluate what one and others say. Scientists
have to adopt such a stance as a matter of course or otherwise they would be
laughed out of the community of scientists, and it is not necessarily easy for
a scientist to do this for psychological reasons. Like drinking coffee or beer,
it is an acquired taste. Giving up cherished but wrong ideas can be a bitter
experience for some people.
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.yiv73
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: List Culture and The FFL Post Count
Buck, I can understand, if you are emotionally sensitive that you might feel
hurt as a result of some the of things posted here on FFL, but 'ruinous' is
another matter. That means disastrous or destructive. Obviously if a person
thinks idea A is false and persuasively explains why he/she thinks it is false,
it could be ruinous. Now if you like idea A and want to defend it, you must do
so in a manner more persuasive than the person who thinks it is false.
Spiritual arguments eventually all amount to blather because they are not based
on facts. Facts that are related to spiritual things never seem to touch the
core value of spirituality because that core value is always said to not exist
in the material world, and hence, there are no indisputable facts that can be
presented; everything is hearsay, and not admissible in court. There are many
things you have brought up here which I think are dead wrong. For example, the
Maharishi effect.
I think a case could be made that there is some sort of interaction between
human beings that result in crowd effects, like riots. There is electrical
activity in the brain and it seems as if it could influence people near you
were it strong enough, but the effect would be much more limited than the way
the movement talks about it, it would at best be an electromagnetic field
effect. But also, it might be a chemical effect, or people picking up on
behavioural cues. So the scientific issue would revolve around these known
effects, not a unified field effect, for scientifically a unified field is
still an unfinished and unproven theory, and hence has not been discovered
scientifically, it is an ideal many scientists are attempting to work toward.
The movement's spiel about the Maharishi effect is essentially a scam because
mentally the idea has been approached philosophically rather than
scientifically. Do you want to discuss this?
From: "dhamiltony...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]"
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2015 2:26 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: List Culture and The FFL Post Count
I have no problem withconsidering divergent opinion. I am quite happy reading
it here, asRick had originally intended. But I do brace at the ruinous
hurtfulway you and others presenting here have on the discussions here.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :
I think, Buck, what you call collaboration is a situation where everyone agrees
with you. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :
Collaboration? Could many folksdare at all to publicly disagree here on FFL
anymore given the lackof self-restraint in the culture that remains on FFL?
What is mostlymissing now from the dominant FFL writing is a kindness to
process, alove enough of collaboration that seems necessary enough for there
tobe creative thinking between people. Instead what we have is aculture of
rudeness that has long interrupted the communal thinkinghere and driven people
away.
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Xenu Porn [2 Attachments]
The term engram pre-dated Hubbard's use of the term, appearing in the early
1900s having the meaning 'the means by which memory traces are stored as
biophysical or biochemical changes in the brain (and other neural tissue) in
response to external stimuli'. It was a scientific hypothesis. In Hubbard's
scam it's 'a mental image picture which is a recording of an experience
containing pain, unconsciousness and a real or fancied threat to survival. It
is a recording in the reactive mind of something which actually happened to an
individual in the past and which contained pain and unconsciousness'.
When you look at any spiritual movement or philosophy there is basically
something like an engram, there is something that is 'wrong' with you (which
probably you do not like), and the spiritual system is going to 'fix' it, and
you fall into the system because you think life will be better if you get rid
of whatever seems insufficient in you. In TM engram = stress, in Catholicism it
is 'original sin', in a number of philosophies it is 'ignorance' or 'illusion'.
In every case a supposed condition has to be reversed or eliminated, but the
methods used differ. It seems in Scientology the attempt is to get you to face
directly these unpleasant memories; in TM these things are supposed to be
gently released. These processes can be effective, but the danger is the mind
as memory gets loaded with all sorts of explanations for what you are doing. A
person basically does these things to improve their life, but if the
explanatory part of the process takes deep root, you end up as a 'true
believer' in the particular philosophy at hand, when all you were trying to do
in the first place was forget something or lessen the impact of that something.
Cool video of that volcano. One person who had a great view of a volcanic
explosion was the scientist David Johnston who was monitoring Mt. St. Helens in
1980. He was 10 kilometres from the mountain when it blew. He yelled into his
radio 'Vancouver! Vancouver! This is it!' and was never heard from again. Road
workers found parts of his trailer 13 years later, but no sign of him. If he
had any engrams from the event, they probably disappeared at the same time he
did. Attached is a picture of Johnston made 13 hours before the explosion, and
a second image of the explosion which he directly faced (the image made by a
camper who was driving frantically away at the time).
From: "TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]"
To: FairfieldLife
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2015 10:54 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Xenu Porn
For believers in the $cientology myth of galactic overlord and badass Xenu
bringing billions of his people to Earth and throwing them into volcanoes, this
time lapse segment of a Chilean volcano erupting will bring back memories of
what caused all the engrams you have to pay the big bucks to get rid of through
Co$ auditing.
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: List Culture and The FFL Post Count
You're kidding, right?
From: "Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]"
To: "FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com"
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2015 12:35 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: List Culture and The FFL Post Count
I was once in a class with this lady who was teaching a healing thing,
there were three of us former TM'ers and she said the other two had what she
called a TM "hook," which she said was a psychological hook of some kind that
she had seen in TM'ers and former TM'ers. Dunno why she thought I didn't have
one.
From: aryavazhi
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2015 7:58 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: List Culture and The FFL Post Count
Buck the depressed whiner and Willy the repetitive ranter, there's probably
psychological profiles of those types of psychosis somewhere.
I had a friend, an old TM teacher like me, who met somekind of a clearvoyant,
telling him that he had a TM implant in his brain, despite the fact that he had
left the movement, and surely had adopted his own opinions on a number of
things. He asked me at the time what I thought of it. Now I am not really a
believer in the implant idea, you know there could be all kind of implants,
from physical, to subtle physical etc. So I told him so.
But after leaving TM, some decades ago, I soon realized, that not only stopping
formal TM whoulc make me into a non-TMer. I realized that the concepts and
ideas, the ideology, if you want the 'brainwashing' has still left traces,
expectations, even in the subconscious.
I had to make a conscious effort to rid myself of some of the TM concepts,
which were like hooks clinging to me. I did this to an extend, so that I could
feel happy, and not 'miss' anything of my old TM environment, instead enjoying
my new life, and my new spiritual discoveries fully. (That's what about I told
my friend)
But later the thought, that there may indeed be something of a TM implant, that
still was people hooking up, didn't leave me. In fact, could this be one
explanation, how people here on FFL, both TB TMers (who will of course deny
they are TB), and anti-TMers alike are hooked to the same story? Infact could
also anti-cultist be fighting the same implant, that TMers so vehemently defend?
This is just a thought, I know, I will probably not get a lot of support for
it, but could there be something to it?
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Re: [FairfieldLife] ~~~~~~~~~~ about TMO friendship ~~~~~~~~~~~
I was talking to a well-placed governor a few years ago, and the concern he expressed was in the old days, people just wanted to hang out around Maharishi, but now of course that is impossible, and people have a different attitude toward both learning and going on courses because the draw of an alleged 'master' is nowhere in sight. Also even getting existing practitioners on courses needs some new impetus because it has to be practical, convenient and affordable for them to go on courses. A lot of facilities have been shut down, and renting places can be expensive locally. For example, opening a TM center these days requires it face a certain direction, and finding real estate that meets just this simple requirement is rather difficult. Also as far as knowledge, there is nothing really new in the offerings, though there seem to be some techniques His Appointed Royalness Tony is giving out to long time teachers on special courses. There are these 'Experience of Self' courses at MUM, but everybody experiences this every day anyway, even if they do not realise it. It is basically the same old thing with new dressing. TM's real problem is it is heavily invested in beginning a spiritual trek, but does not have the chops to effectively take it to completion which is why so many people drift off to other teachings or give up. I hear it is difficult getting new teachers because M is not there, they are very concerned about it as a career, how they will support themselves etc., the enthusiasm about being around M is not the driving factor any more, so a realistic business model as a profession looms in people's mind now. Basically any spiritual philosophy has certain ideas that are discussed and certain techniques that are practised and over time something happens or does not. Standing out from the crowd with this kind of thing seems to be getting more difficult as more or less generic versions of techniques are proffered in the marketplace. The main problem as I see it is the TM organisation is boxed in with a set of specific beliefs and guidelines that actively prevent them from looking at more possibilities. The tithing/donation model which works for religions who have been able to brainwash their flock is more difficult for TM because it has to pretend it has no religious associations, but the DLF is basically working on this model, and just how that will pan out when he goes is unknown. If TM manages to maintain some respectable amount of initiations, there will always be a few celebrities that will fall into the net, but whether the glow around them is enough is another matter. TM has not managed to get really established as a major brand on its own; so far it seems to have always depended on some kind of exposure based on the celebrity status of someone, like Maharishi, Merv Griffin, The Beach Boys, Beatles, etc., which is not a very stable model, particularly because celebrities' foibles are far more likely to become public and screw the image being created (recall Mr Collins recently). Also, as a person practices a technique, over time, the initial enthusiasm a person has is likely to diminish over time. For example, recently the Beatles and Clint Eastwood, while they have lent some support to the DLF projects, they do not appear to be particularly enthusiastic about it. Celebrities often do this if it does not involve a lot of time and energy if the project seems reasonable. But these people can't offer what the people seeking relief from their problems need, they are just window dressing. From: "TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" To: "FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com" Sent: Monday, April 13, 2015 2:45 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] ~~ about TMO friendship ~~~ Something I think the TMO should be thinking about for the future -- were the TM movement given to thinking about the real-world (as opposed to fantasy) future -- is "What are we going to do when the existing pool of celebrity TMers runs dry? What's that mean for our sales model?" This pool of celebs WILL, after all, run dry. There aren't going to be any NEW celebrity TMers. There is no mechanism for "raising them properly." David Lynch was one of the last who was "raised" in the ashram model of being taught to revere the guru from afar, and then finally being offered the opportunity to meet him in person, even if it cost him a million dollars. So he got to meet Maharishi, got to get MMY to focus on him, and even got his blessing-from-afar as he went out and worked to sell his products and fulfill his dreams. That path clearly *worked* to turn Lynch into a True Believer, and a lifer. But that path is no longer open to the TMO. There ain't no guru to introduce future celebrities to. What? You think they're gonna pay big bucks to meet "King Tony?" Or Bevan? Or Hagelin? Get real. Maharishi was the "draw." To meet him was why the Beatles and
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: ~~~~~~~~~~ about friendship ~~~~~~~~~~~
From: "s3raph...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2015 10:18 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: ~~ about friendship ~~~ Pretentious, moi? Re "If you are going to name things that cannot be conceptualised, why not give it a name that nobody can understand or figure out rather than one that has obvious personal, societal, philosophical, and religious connotations for most people?": I could say "The Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao." Indeed, I do sometimes say that! Hint: best to pronounce it "Dao" as that sounds more impressive to the great unwashed who can be fooled into assuming you've really studied this philosophy. ;-) But "Tao" is a foreign word. Why not use "The One" or "The Absolute" or, er, "The Godhead"? It doesn't do any harm if you're aware that language has developed to deal with the relative world so using English to talk about what lies beyond all concepts can never be more than a finger pointing at the Moon. Eckhart isn't misled by the word "Godhead" - neither am I. It's pointing towards an "experience" (which isn't an experience!) rather than a proper noun. 'God' is derived from a foreign word too, whose entomology is a bit uncertain, but the original word, a verb, may have meant 'to pour' or 'to libate' I'm a special case, as happens. I enjoy reading texts which throw in terminology like this sample . . . "We pray that we may come unto this Darkness which is beyond light, and, without seeing and without knowing, to see and to know that which is above vision and knowledge through the realization that by not-seeing and by unknowing we attain to true vision and knowledge; and thus praise, superessentially, it that is superessential." I enjoy reading texts like this too, sometimes (= not all the time). Try and explain that to a logical positivist! But I suspect that you can see what the writer is trying to get across and that he is twisting the language into something closer to poetry than philosophy in his desperation. His language overloads our ability to unravel it so you're either launched in the general direction he intends or are left stranded! I like that kind of "nonsense" because it teases me out of thought. The logical positivists like Ayer and Carnap likened metaphysical language to poetry or music, that from the standpoint of understanding, it's nonsense, but it conveys something on the level of feeling. Non-verbal information, but of course about what you can never specifically say. Re "An experience that is non-verbal and cannot be described renders all words concerning it nonsense. Nothing you could say about it could possibly be true.": Indeed. What he's talking about is beyond the true and the false! Beyond what exists and what doesn't exist. Is it therefore "nonsense = not worth wasting time on"? Or "nonsense = leave sense behind because there's something (which isn't a thing) that is more important than your everyday experience leads you to suspect"? For the one seeking that elusive, damned thing we call enlightenment, one might consider that the term 'beyond' might also be another red herring that leads astray. Exactly where will the result be if you find it? By the way, Eckhart invents many, many neologisms in his writings. If anyone has any interest in the man I recommend Meister Eckhart: Mystic as Theologian by Robert K.C. Forman. Forman has been a keen transcendental meditator for many years and (although MMY only gets mentioned once in a single sentence) Forman's analysis of Eckhart's medieval sermons shows his "path" parallels MMY's ideas of the progression from Transcendental Consciousness, to Cosmic Consciousness, to God consciousness. I have thought about this progression, but not everyone seems to experience these things in this particular order or this particular number of divisions. If you take the WC | TC CC GC UC | BC sequence and divide it up with those vertical bars, the middle section (TC CC GC UC) would likely be called Makkyo (ghosts) by the Zen people, where it corresponds with the middle phrase in 'before enlightenment mountains are mountains and rivers are rivers, when seeking enlightenment mountains are not mountains and rivers are not rivers, after enlightenment, mountains are mountains and rivers are rivers'. Also if you take the outer terms (WC and BC) this corresponds with mountains just being mountains and rivers, rivers, and also the phrase, 'before enlightenment chop wood, carry water, after enlightenment chop wood, carry water'. This would seem to imply (assuming you think the Zen description has something to it) that if you get the desired result, you not only have not gone anywhere, nor have acquired anything new, but rather that nothing at all happened; that the desires, the exhilaration, the terminology, the hopes that one has, when seeking, are all ghosts, a delusion perhaps. Mos
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM reaches the Orient...
This was in Washington D.C. Think it was about 1985, I do not recall exactly. His comments were specifically related to the claim that Ayurveda could cure diabetes. As you recall, there was a time that TM was supposed to cure everything, the solution to all problems. At time went on, Chopra the MD became more and more Chopra the Woo Doctor. He also had a wife who did not want to live within the movement's restrictions as far as income etc., and Chopra was concerned about this, he had had after all a good position at a hospital. Apparently he got some financial concessions from Maharishi, but eventually Chopra wanted to go his own way more independently and Maharishi could not get his cut of the action, which as you know would ideally be all of it. My guess is Chopra was fairly rational until the movement got its claws into him, and like Hagelin, fell into a more irrational frame of mind. The movement seems to lack someone who could put the ideas about reality and consciousness into some kind of rational perspective that is also actually in tune with scientific principles rather than in tune with a parody of scientific principles. From: "Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" To: "FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com" Sent: Friday, April 3, 2015 3:10 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM reaches the Orient... "Interestingly, the first time I heard Chopra speak within the movement he was much more sceptical about such things as what Ayurveda could accomplish" You are kidding!!! When and where was this? This is the first time I have ever heard of that! From: "anartax...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 3, 2015 11:07 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM reaches the Orient... What I liked about the movie Bad Teacher, is while the character played by Diaz has to adjust to a new situation in her life that resulted from her 'badness', it is not a Cinderella, Disney kind of story where everything like her personality turns to gold. It has a more realistic arc that does not magically undo her 'morally bankrupt' characteristics. She adapts to the extent she has to and finds a modicum of satisfaction well below her original goals. I did see Chopra a few times within the movement. The last time I saw him he was coming out of the Twenty-First Century Bookstore in Fairfield, IA (the local Ru Woo bookstore which no longer exists I hear). Interestingly, the first time I heard Chopra speak within the movement he was much more sceptical about such things as what Ayurveda could accomplish, but I think once he got the idea he could make money selling nostrums, that scepticism was quietly put away. Those well inculcated by TM philosophy always seemed to feel that something was not quite right with him, that he was out for himself, which probably was true, as he did not turn out to be the tool Maharishi wanted for promoting the movement, which is of course someone who only promotes Maharishi's goals, financial and otherwise. The Chopra-Mlodinow book was one of the results after the following exchange occurred at the end of a panel debate (the future of God) at CalTech. This was the first time they encountered each other, and Mlodinow was in the audience. Physicist Leonard Mlodinow vs. Deepak Chopra.WMV || |||| Physicist Leonard Mlodinow vs. Deepak Chopra.WMV TrueSquimished|| | View on youtu.be |Preview by Yahoo| || ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Great response. For the record, if I ever mention Deepak Chopra here, know that it is on the basis of the few -- VERY few -- net articles of his I have glanced at over the years. Color me not impressed. The analogy of "sponge mind" may be aiming too far up the evolutionary chain for me to agree with it. :-) I missed him entirely in the TMO, having bailed years before he appeared and did his cometary flame-out. So when I say I think he's a mental midget, it's NOT because I am compulsively trying to dump on all things TM. I don't even *know* him in relation to TM. I think he's a mental midget because he speaks and writes like a mental midget. The "Bad Teacher" thing is amusing, and I take it as a "writing prompt" cue and will duly download that movie and watch it. I missed it as if wafted through the mediaverse, and will try to catch up to it now. I've waxed forth on my underwhelmedness about David Lynch here before, and don't feel the need to do so extensively again. I think he's a guy who *could* have been a true creative force in the cinema, but instead decided to settle first for being a "critics' darling" and then later for a "guru's darling." Here's a prediction. No "seeing" involved, just watching trends and extrapolating from them. The much-discussed and in some circles much-anticipated followup to Lynch's "Twin Peaks" will never happen. The reason
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Could it be...Satan?
Yeah, I know, but I have some time to kill. There was one hour segment on CNN
last night on atheists, not very in depth, but evenly presented.
Examining the stigma of atheism - CNN Video
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| Examining the stigma of atheism - CNN VideoCNN's Kyra Phillips examines
atheism and the stigma that some associate with the term. |
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| View on www.cnn.com | Preview by Yahoo |
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Famous atheists and their beliefs - CNN.com
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| Famous atheists and their beliefs - CNN.com |
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| View on www.cnn.com | Preview by Yahoo |
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From: "TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]"
To: "FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com"
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2015 6:30 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Could it be...Satan?
From: "anartax...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]"
How many people captured and executed by the Islamic State successfully
fought off the result? Zero. You seem to have a disconnect between your
thoughts and what happens in the world.
Duh. You're wasting your time trying to reason with him, Xeno. It's like trying
to reason with this guy. They think like this, and yet consider themselves
"good."
“Decapitate her head off”: Phil Robertson’s vile message to atheists
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| “Decapitate her head off”: Phil Robertson’s vile message..."You're the one
who says there is no God, there's no right, there's no wrong, so we're just
having fun" VIDEO |
| |
| View on www.salon.com | Preview by Yahoo |
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Could it be...Satan?
This discussion seems more about what you consider your moral compass to be,
and that I should adopt your ideas about good and evil. While I have some sense
of ethics, I have no moral compass. Good and Evil are in the eye of the
beholder who thinks these ideas are real. I hold they do not exist except as
concepts planted in the mind by others, or perhaps by oneself in an attempt to
control the world in a way favourable to one's own continued existence (after
all someone had to invent those ideas). I would, if possible avoid being taken
by ISIS/ISIL, the best way being never to get near where they are. If they
killed me, I am reasonably confident they would consider it a good deed, for
them and the world, because that is how they see the world. After such a fact,
I would have no opinion or say in the matter because my form, mind, etc., would
be non-existent. Their way of thinking I consider a danger to others, and that
a permanent way of eliminating that kind of thinking — The True Believer —
would be advantageous for those outside a circle of such beliefs. There can be
no such thing as a true belief, because a belief is the assumption, that
such-and-such is true, without supporting evidence. Believing this way is a
pretence of knowledge. You are pretending something is true. Direct knowledge
of a fact is rather rare in human discourse. We have to rely on hypothetical
thinking quite a lot, and inductive inference quite a lot, and if pressed to
demonstrate the truth of what we say, most of us would be in a pretty sorry
state.
From: "jr_...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]"
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2015 1:24 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Could it be...Satan?
Xeno,
This discussion is about good and evil and the role that you should play in it.
If the IS rebels captured you, do you think they'll be doing a good deed for
you and the world?
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[FairfieldLife] FFL/The_Peak
Since 18 March to now. FFL, 122 posts The Peak, 24 posts (figures are minus the skewing factor of Richard's irrelevance)
Re: [FairfieldLife] For you film buffs out there: 2001 in 70 mm
I saw 2001 in 1968 in San Francisco. I rather liked the film because it was
largely visual. Kubrick was deliberately cool, showing how the human race,
after a vigorous beginning, had all of its fervour sapped by its own
technology, it had become jaded. One reviewer at that time said the film was
about the evolution of man from ape to angel. The original premier was some 20
to 30 minutes longer I hear, but the New York critics, always generally
unfavourable to the creative enterprise, panned it. So Kubrick cut the film
more tightly, and even then it was a long, silent film without much explanation
for American audiences who tend to scientific illiteracy. I think the film was
intended to inspire a certain wonder in the cosmos, and was a celebration of
intelligence in the universe. I saw the film, again in 70mm, in New York City
in 2001
Roger Ebert's review:
2001: A Space Odyssey Movie Review (1968) | Roger Ebert
| |
| | | | | | | |
| 2001: A Space Odyssey Movie Review (1968) | Roger EbertThe genius is not in
how much Stanley Kubrick does in "2001: A Space Odyssey," but in how little.
This is the work of an artist so sublimely confident that he doesn... |
| |
| View on www.rogerebert.com | Preview by Yahoo |
| |
| |
From: "Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife]"
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2015 4:15 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] For you film buffs out there: 2001 in 70 mm
I saw 2001 in 1968 at the Cinerama is Seattle. The print may have been
70mm not the three strip Cinerama. But I'm not a big fan of the film as it
seemed a bit stiff and cold.
._,___
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Barry Wright's nar-ci-fan-ta-stun-ted world
From: "steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2015 1:49 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Barry Wright's nar-ci-fan-ta-stun-ted world Well, honestly, I find this rather fascinating, and really, hoping I can learn something from it. This notion that if people are challenged in an unreasonable way it can turn into a "teaching moment" On the other hand, maybe you have a point, and really I am not trying to be duplicitous here, but, would it be analogous to say, what the nazis did to prisoners, in terms of experiments like subjecting people to extreme heat, or extreme cold, or other tortureous experiments in the name of research. The results of those "experiments" were useful to science. Honestly, they were. So, is it along those lines? No, enlightenment is basically a mind thing for, presumably, if your head could be kept alive artificially and the body removed, you could still get enlightened because it is a shift in the perception and understanding of the world. Torturing people physically to change their minds, or just because you do not like them, or have been programmed to not like them (same thing), does nothing in this direction. Because enlightenment presumably improves the quality of experience, it is a mental thing. And because enlightenment supposedly increases strength of mind, better understanding etc., due to reducing or eliminating mechanical, conditioned responses to what life throws at us, it is a different situation. A physical challenge can fell even a very strong physically fit person. The ability to deal with a mental challenge is a different animal, a physically weak person might have a superior intellect and repel a challenge with ease, while a strong, physically fit person might be mentally challenged in this regard. Once you have adopted a 'path of enlightenment', you are on the road of de-conditioning those mechanical responses, on the road to a new understanding of life and what it challenges you with. It is not an escape from this, though people often use the spiritual persona as an escape. To newbies, a spiritual master seems in some undefined way invulnerable, and this is attractive, incites the desire to be invulnerable, even though we do not at that time know what this really entails. Once immersed in this sort of world view, it is shall we say, unbecoming to be a complainer about what other people do. So if you want to expound the alleged virtues of enlightenment you have to in some way live those values and be able to explain their relationship to life. You cannot be affronted by how other people challenge you because you consider what you are doing is 'holy'. Being 'holy' is a defensive screen, a religious meme designed to ward off attacks on weak arguments about the nature of reality. Enlightenment is about nothing; there is no argument that can demonstrate it is real, you have to find out for yourself. Now if you experience it yourself and want to talk about it to others, you have to have a certain kind of psychological strength, a sort of non-reactive strength that can brush aside others' coarseness, or even subtle challenges without dismissing them. You cannot be some milquetoast pushover. It does not necessarily mean you will have a pleasant personality. There are stories of very gruff Zen masters for example. The first things that got me to experience 'spiritual' experiences like deep silence was not meditation but an all-out assault on my beliefs. One does not usually know how deeply unsubstantiated beliefs lie at the basis of one's world view, how deeply one is conditioned. The problem I find with the TM movement is it does not make this explicit, it relies on reconditioning you to a new set of ideas without at the same time informing you that these new ideas need to be undermined just as much as the ones you are currently stuck with. The stuff on a spiritual path is a means to an end, it is not the end in itself, it has to be let go at some point. If it is not let go, it becomes a religion, which even M said was the result of loss of knowledge. Ironic that the TM movement is steadily moving in the direction of a religion. I am not sure M ever intended it not to be, but he did say things in the earlier years that were more in line with some other traditions, like Zen, where there is a concerted effort to get a student beyond their verbal belief system. Because of these reasons, being challenged mentally on what you feel is 'reality' I would consider an essential element in freeing oneself from the tyranny of mental conditioning. Some conditioning is going to remain, but being 'sensitive' to taunts about your world view only shows that on the path of enlightenment, you are a failure. Some teachers have expressed this quality in interesting ways. The Catholic priest Anthony de Mello said 'enlightenment is absolute cooperation with
Re: [FairfieldLife] Barry Wright's nar-ci-fan-ta-stun-ted world
From: "steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]"
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2015 1:49 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Barry Wright's nar-ci-fan-ta-stun-ted world
Well, honestly, I find this rather fascinating, and really, hoping I can
learn something from it.
This notion that if people are challenged in an unreasonable way it can turn
into a "teaching moment"
On the other hand, maybe you have a point, and really I am not trying to be
duplicitous here, but,
would it be analogous to say, what the nazis did to prisoners, in terms of
experiments like subjecting people to extreme heat, or extreme cold, or other
tortureous experiments in the name of research.
The results of those "experiments" were useful to science. Honestly, they were.
So, is it along those lines?
No
Or I guess, you mean something milder like just misrepresenting someone, (short
of legal slander, I presume) just see how they respond?
I would think you'd have a better idea of a person's inner quality by engaging
in a more civil conversation which often will have its own edginess.
Most beings - animals, humans, creatures typically don't respond well to being
wronged, or hurt physically.
Even animals can be subjected to a sort of misrepresentation. Typically that
falls under the category of "cruelty to animals"
I guess I just find this statement of yours, which you've repeated often,
curious.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :
The Peak has had a few good conversations, but it is pretty sappy most of the
time. When people are challenged, often in an unreasonable way, an unfair way,
you get to see their real psychology come forth, and get a better sense of
their level of knowledge and how they express it. When everything is nicey
nicey, that knowledge stays hidden, so you cannot tell if it is there or not.
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Barry Wright's nar-ci-fan-ta-stun-ted world
You have had a difficult day? Gosh, what is meditation coming to? I am not holding Jim to any standard. I am just pointing out he said one thing, but did another. If I had the power to hold him to some standard, he would not be able to break his word. The fun is people are erratic. It means you can play with their foibles (or ignore them). The secret to keeping your word is to never give it. We are too spongy and soft to act like inerrantly like vengeful gods who can never be crossed, or else. There are those of us who try. Barry is actually pretty consistent this way. Ah, to create a hell that would truly terrify people into compliance with some stupid, stupid rule. Tax collectors and legislators and rulers of countries have a tendency to fall in this direction, as do religions. I did not intend to convict Jim, a simple lynching without justice would have sufficed. But that is just on FFL; on The Peak, he has installed himself as Chief Magistrate, top of the food chain, and there, I wonder whether some misstep of mine will coerce him to send me to the outer void someday. But on FFL, he is just another piece of prey in the jungle, like the rest of us. FFL is like the world, and The Peak is like TM. You can go to The Peak to rest (an old folks home for the spiritually timid), and when you want to evolve, you need a bit of resistance, so you can come over here to FFL, for exercise, to put it into action. From: "steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2015 7:13 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Barry Wright's nar-ci-fan-ta-stun-ted world First, thank you xeno for giving a me a smile and a chuckle in what has been an otherwise difficult day. Second, I certainly can't argue with you. On the other hand, (and maybe I'm not able to give you comments sufficient thought), the world operates better when we give one another a little space. In the current example, yes, Jim did interact with Barry. In a court of law, sometimes the lawyer will demand a simple "yes", or "no". But, without an explanation, you can't really get to the nuances of a case, which may make quite a difference. I find it rather comical that you would seem to hold Jim to this strict standard, or definition of "interaction" when, really, that's not how the real world works, except in legal contracts. And even then, there can be different interpretations. So, I find it perfectly acceptable that Jim would see fit to correct a misconception. Whether his "buttons were pushed", I have no idea. I really wouldn't think so. It seemed that all he wanted to say was, "it wasn't me, Barry", and "have a good day" If you want to convict him on this basis, have at it. (-: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : As I pointed out in another post awhile back, being accused of something one did not do has a tendency to push peoples buttons. It does not matter if the misconception was deliberate or not. The main thing is if you say one thing and do another, it's hypocritical. A rule has an exception if, 1) it's not a rule. Humans are too weak to create authentic rules. What we conceive as being laws of nature (not the TMO kind) might be ironclad enough to be called a rule, like how gravity operates. What is the rule that you follow in writing posts with short sentences spaced apart. What are you typing on? There are such things as paragraphs. When you are in a nice mood, you follow the spirit of the law, and when not, you just hang the bastard, innocent or guilty. How can you correct a misconception one has without interacting with them? INTERACT = act in such a way as to have an effect on another. You cannot have that effect if you do not make contact, you are trying to redefine a word just like Judy did. I really miss Judy. She made this place a hell worthy of interaction. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : xeno, fyi, to the rest of the world, what Jim did was just correct a misconception. for you and Barry, and perhaps a few others to interpret this as "interacting" with Barry makes for a rather weak case. maybe you are trying to run the routine you did with Judy, on which she bit so hard. that was rather comical. but, then again, perhaps you don't understand that exceptions are made for any rule, self imposed, or not. so, just to repeat, correcting an misconception, is not the same as interacting with someone. get a consensus, if you have a question about this. or take a step back and realize there is the "letter" of intent, and the "spirit" of intent. this distinction is a cornerstone of our legal system, btw. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : I couldn't match the IP addresses in the ak_ak post header with anything Jim has sent, but I am about to have lunch, so I didn't try very hard. It is kind of interesting that Jim, directly addressing Barry using the reverse_archery handle says he meant
Re: [FairfieldLife] Barry Wright's nar-ci-fan-ta-stun-ted world
The X-Originating-IP only tells us where the message first arrived, it seems.
As for koans, here is one:
'A nun who was searching for enlightenment made a statue of Buddha and covered
it with gold leaf. Wherever she went she carried this golden Buddha with
her.Years passed and, still carrying her Buddha, the nun came to live in a
small temple in a country where there were many Buddhas, each one with its own
particular shrine.The nun wished to burn incense before her golden Buddha. Not
liking the idea of the perfume straying to the others, she devised a funnel
through which the smoke would ascend only to her statue. This blackened the
nose of the golden Buddha, making it especially ugly.'
ak_akX-Originating-IP: [98.136.219.129]Authentication-Results:
mta1571.mail.gq1.yahoo.com from=yahoogroups.com; domainkeys=neutral (no sig);
from=yahoogroups.com; dkim=pass (ok)Received: from 127.0.0.1 (EHLO
ng10-vm12.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com) (98.136.219.129)SERVER LOCATION:
SUNNYVALE, CALIFORNIA
reverse_archeryX-Originating-IP: [98.136.219.109]Authentication-Results:
mta1142.mail.ne1.yahoo.com from=; domainkeys=neutral (no sig);
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CALIFORNIA
fleetwood_macandcheeseX-Originating-IP: 98.238.201.121X-Yahoo-Post-IP:
98.238.201.121From: "fleetwood_macnche...@yahoo.com [the_peak]"
X-Yahoo-Profile: fleetwood_macncheeseSERVER LOCATION:
PARADISE, CALIFORNIA
fleetwood_macandcheeseX-Originating-IP: [98.139.165.7]Authentication-Results:
mta1486.mail.gq1.yahoo.com from=; domainkeys=neutral (no sig);
from=yahoogroups.com; dkim=pass (ok)Received: from 127.0.0.1 (EHLO
ng3-ip1.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com) (98.139.165.7)by mta1486.mail.gq1.yahoo.com
with SMTPS; Tue, 17 Mar 2015 13:38:10 +SERVER LOCATION: SUNNYVALE,
CALIFORNIA
anartaxiusX-Originating-IP: [66.196.80.63]Authentication-Results:
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ng25-vm8.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com) (66.196.80.63)SERVER LOCATION: SUNNYVALE,
CALIFORNIA
TurquoiseBeeX-Originating-IP: [67.195.87.40]Authentication-Results:
mta1560.mail.gq1.yahoo.com from=; domainkeys=neutral (no sig);
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ng25-vm2.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com) (67.195.87.40) by
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LOCATION: SUNNYVALE, CALIFORNIA
From: "TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]"
To: "FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com"
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2015 4:43 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Barry Wright's nar-ci-fan-ta-stun-ted world
From: "anartax...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]"
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2015 5:21 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Barry Wright's nar-ci-fan-ta-stun-ted world
I couldn't match the IP addresses in the ak_ak post header with anything
Jim has sent, but I am about to have lunch, so I didn't try very hard. It is
kind of interesting that Jim, directly addressing Barry using the
reverse_archery handle says he meant never to interact with Barry again, but in
order to send the message directly addressed to Barry in the post, he did
interact.
It's a koan, Xeno. We who are lesser-evolved than Jim (as he has told us SO
many times) are supposed to ponder it until we become as enlightened as he is.
:-) :-) :-)
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Meet the Ancestor!
In the past day or so there have been 30 posts to FFL and 8 to the Peak. Since
I am on both forums, I redid my email, sorting them into FFL and Peak folders,
and one particular poster also on both goes directly to the trash, so these
figures here represent everyone else. The intellects here are much more likely
to jump on inconsistencies and sloppy thinking here. There have been a few
conversations of note on the peak, but mostly it is kind of tepid with a halo
of woo fluff. Without a challenge the mind gets soft. Right now there seems to
be a conversation about Vernon Katz's new volume. While here I can wonder what
percent of my DNA matched that of Australopithecus Afarensis, or whether Buddha
would have liked coffee if he had had access to it. Here you can say what you
really think. For example, watching Maharishi on tapes some 35 years ago, I was
watching him pounding a flower against his face chuckling to himself and I was
really thinking, is this guy some kind of saint or a daemon, it was like there
was this experience of a dark thread running through that session. I have
lately been reading a bit about sociopaths, and it certainly does not seem
inconceivable that Maharishi was a sociopath considering the way he dealt with
people and because of his incredible focus on getting what he wanted. There are
certain features of sociopathy and states developed via meditation that cross
over, and 'bad' socipathic traits might get enhanced by practice.
From: "TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]"
To: "FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com"
Sent: Thursday, March 5, 2015 9:09 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Meet the Ancestor!
From: salyavin808
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :
LOL. I was going to make the same comment. :-)
I just took my first ever look at the Peak, it's a bit too anodyne for my taste
but I totally get why they didn't like hanging around with us! I'm almost
embarrassed at having actual opinions about things.
At least now you understand the irony I've been pointing out about The_Leak
since its inception. People like Ann, Steve (seventhray), and Buck *claim* that
they're there on The_Leak because it's higher vibe and they prefer that. But at
the same time they make a surprising number of posts *about* FFL. And *in*
those posts they make it clear that they still come to FFL and *read every word
of every post made by the people they hated while they were here* -- you, me,
and Michael. What's up with that, eh? The_Leak is "higher vibe," but they can't
get their rocks off without slumming at FFL?
Meanwhile, while claiming "28 members," the 107 posts made on The_Leak in the
last week were primarily made by 5 people, with another 4 contributing one
each. Compare and contrast to contentious and "abyss-mal" Fairfield Life, which
during its last full week contained 321 posts, made by 18 people, with another
8 contributing one post each. (And in fact -- and to counter your assertion
that they "don't like hanging around with us" -- three of The_Leak members
posted more *here* on FFL than they did there.)
I stand by my original predictions -- I don't see The_Leak surviving. I see it
headed for the same fate as the similarly anodyne BATGAP messages forum, which
still nominally has 116 members, but which had ZERO posts last week. Statistics
don't lie -- there simply is no lasting market for namby-pamby.
What's going to be fascinating is how Jimbo is going to try to spin things when
The_Leak fails and he comes back here seeking his attention fix. Now THAT is
going to be entertaining. :-)
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Oh great! GMO apples approved for growing in the US
Even hybrid seed producers use a tactic of creating seeds that do not perform
well if the seeds from the crop are used, protecting their investment. The
problem with poorer countries with GMO crops is just this — sharing seeds, or
using seeds harvested from GMO crops. However GMO seeds from GMO crops are used
under license. Monsanto says they have sued 147 farmers out of 325,000
customers in the United States for patent infringement. I personally think GMO
crops could have potential dangers, but the TMO doesn't want them because they
want to sell their mumbo-jumbo farming techniques, which so far do not seem to
have any kind of scientific track record for improved yield or food quality or
cost benefits over conventional organic farming techniques.
I also think lack of diversity will be a big problem. This happened even before
GMO technology, or even hybridising crops because we select what we like to eat
and want to grow it without a lot of trouble.
From: salyavin808
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 7:51 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Oh great! GMO apples approved for growing in the
US
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :
Thing is companies do this geneticmodification because they are desperate for
making money. And ifthey don't do it then someone else will and then
theirstockholders will be in an uproar. The real beast is capitalism.
Exactly. I think the thing that worries me most about GMO's is that the world
food supply ends up in the hands of bio-tech companies. Farmers in the third
world have already been sued for sharing last years seeds among themselves
rather than buying new ones from the manufacturer, along with the pesticides
they are designed to work with.
Keeping food strains strong via interbreeding by sharing seeds will be a thing
of the past in our brave new monoculture world.
On 02/16/2015 11:33 AM, Xenophaneros Anartaxiusanartaxius@... [FairfieldLife]
wrote:
They modified theplant to stop producing an enzyme that makes the appleto
turn brown. Just think, if we could do that topeople, we could stop
discrimination based on skincolour. I would not worry though, humans
areexceptionally creative in finding things for dislikingother people. There
are many ways to produce 'new'organisms. With genetic engineering one can
mimicthings like cross breeding, or (and this is where thereal potential for
danger comes in) mimic naturalmutation, or inserting genes from other species,
orcreating entirely synthetic genes. I think a glow inthe dark 'spiritual' gene
that activates when a personbelieves a spiritual philosophy with too great
apercentage of gullibility would help identify peopleone might want to avoid,
as the conversation with suchwould tend to be repetitive without progress. Not
ofmuch use here though.
From:"Bhairitu noozguru@... [FairfieldLife]"
To:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent:Monday, February 16, 2015 5:37 PM
Subject:[FairfieldLife] Oh great! GMO apples approved forgrowing in the US
Justwhat you've been waiting for: an applethat doesn't turn brown.
GMO labeling needs to be federallymandated.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/14/business/gmo-apples-are-approved-for-growing-in-us.html?_r=1
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Oh great! GMO apples approved for growing in the US
They modified the plant to stop producing an enzyme that makes the apple to
turn brown. Just think, if we could do that to people, we could stop
discrimination based on skin colour. I would not worry though, humans are
exceptionally creative in finding things for disliking other people. There are
many ways to produce 'new' organisms. With genetic engineering one can mimic
things like cross breeding, or (and this is where the real potential for danger
comes in) mimic natural mutation, or inserting genes from other species, or
creating entirely synthetic genes. I think a glow in the dark 'spiritual' gene
that activates when a person believes a spiritual philosophy with too great a
percentage of gullibility would help identify people one might want to avoid,
as the conversation with such would tend to be repetitive without progress. Not
of much use here though.
From: "Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife]"
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 5:37 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Oh great! GMO apples approved for growing in the US
Just what you've been waiting for: an apple that doesn't turn brown.
GMO labeling needs to be federally mandated.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/14/business/gmo-apples-are-approved-for-growing-in-us.html?_r=1
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Last rites
While I have no memories of past lives that I would consider valid, death does seem like it would be an interesting experience to face, experiencing what comes up as it approaches, if it does not come unexpectedly, in which case anticipation or curiosity would be rendered moot. I am finding as time goes on, I do not look back much any more, and also I do not look forward much any more either, the sense of anticipation is extremely low at this point. I do have to make make financial decisions, which requires I do think about such things, but I do not get excited about new stuff any more except rarely. If a new movie comes out, I don't care any more, and if I die before it comes out on DVD or Blu-ray, it is not going to be a loss. There are more things to see than I would every be able to see. So except for logistical planning, life more and more centres on the current moment. And if the current moment involves death, well, no one really has much to say about that at that moment, do they? From: "TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" To: "FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com" Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2015 6:29 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Last rites I feel the way I do about the notion of reincarnation because of personal experience 'remembering' previous lives and even 'remembering' the transit through the Bardo between death and rebirth. At the same time, I know that these 'memories' may be false, so I don't know fersure what will happen at the moment of death. I've said this many times -- if it turns out that death is like the switching off of a light switch and there is only blackness, then there will be no "me" to be disappointed, or to even register the disappointment. So for now I'm going to go with "looking forward" to what comes next, because that strikes me as the best way to live one's life at ANY moment, not just one's last. But as for trying to link the notion of God to reincarnation, that's your hangup, not mine. Millions of Buddhists believe in reincarnation without having to believe that there is a God. The two concepts are not related in any way. From: "s3raph...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2015 4:01 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Last rites Re "it's the end of the day here in sunny CA": Ah! The sun! It's been a while since I saw that here in London. I'm not irritated, never mind over-irritated. I do find it odd though that Barry believes he's got an immortal soul and yet scoffs at the idea of "God". How anyone could suppose that a materialist-naturalistic account of life could justify belief in a post-death existence is beyond me. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Goodness, don't you think you're getting a tad over-irritated? I know my response is the trigger, not the cause of your over-the-top reaction, but still...relax. Yep, I could have been clearer. So, here's my corrected response to anartaxius' comment: You have not defined what it means for 'looking forward' to work. Looking forwardto what comes next does not require that there is a 'next' for lookingforward to work. I'm not sure why I'm going to this trouble because I don't think you will be able to understand the logic and/or the underlying assumptions in my response. But, heh, it's the end of the day here in sunny CA... ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Re "Looking forward to what comes next does not require that a next to exist for looking forward to work. ": WTF?! Is English not your first language? Barry presumably believes that his good self will carry on existing in some future state. If that strikes one as unlikely then looking back on one's past and only life seems a reasonable way to spend one's last moments no? Barry is also caricaturing Robert Anton Wilson's sense. RAW clearly wasn't thinking of people he may have wound up on a Yahoo groups site (few of those will be shedding tears tonight) but of former friends he'd perhaps let down or loved ones he'd fallen out with. He wanted to get reconciled with those he'd personally and intimately interacted with and so felt were a significant part of his identity. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : You have not defined what looking forward to work means. Looking forward to what comes next does not require that a next to exist for looking forward to work. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : This would not work if there is no next. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : The notion of spending my last moments concerned what others thought of me and hoping for them to forgive me doesn't appeal to me. What I hope for at the moment of death is a sense of expectation and looking forward to what comes next. Looking forward strikes me as a more worthy way to "sum up a life" than looking backwards does. #yiv4694922534 #yiv46949
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How does one decide if a person's testimony is valid?
Duveyoung, comments in your text, below. From: Duveyoung To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, December 19, 2014 1:30 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How does one decide if a person's testimony is valid? Anartaxius -- gunna devil-advocate on yer buns. Gunna be snarky N "the worm turns" funzies. Just to see what I can getcha to pony up about why your authority in these matters, well, matters. Who says I have any authority in these matters? All I do is basically talk about how I experience the world You speak as I do when I'm really doing my mad-poet high-stepping -- dead certain of everything -- only I do it with a jester-wearing-a-hat costume, and you come across as professorial with a jaunty mortar board hat. I have never worn one of those hats. If I sound professorial, then it would appear I just have a boring pedantic writing style. Well, listen to my screeching from the back of the room below, and let's us just see what can be seen. Please take my attack, yes, attack, in the spirit of those English Parliament debates where the other party yells in the most raucous, rude, and in your face manner...only this time I'll feign some low-life kinda-Bronx accent.with an imagined voicing not unlike a delivery by Groot. (But, actually I'm still angry at Curtis for ripping me apart like this a few weeks ago...I'm just his fanboy trying to impress him...hee hee.} I am glad I have never had to argue with Curtis. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Yes, no longer mutually exclusive. I think it is basically a teaching technique. I think. I think. Hm. Either way, if you're using the word "I" or "think" then, we're talking about processes of a human nervous system, and that seems, dang it, ever so iffy -- maybe even, error prone, maybe even bullshit. Please clear this up for us. The rest of your statement kinda depends on it. An "I" seems to have the power to "think" -- I'm chewing on this, but it's flavor is kinda like gum from under a seat. As I said in a previous post, I THINK it is a teaching technique. Teaching is basically highlighting diversity and then connecting diversity. Say sharpening a pencil. You need a pencil, and something to sharpen it with. Two things. A person needs to know what a pencil is, and what a sharpening device is. The sharpening device could be a knife, or a dedicated device which we call a pencil sharpener. Then you demonstrate how the two go together to sharpen the pencil. To expand knowledge, you can use the pencil sharpening demonstration by analogy to other areas of life, say, sex. There are certain things that are similar, sticking one thing in another, torque, etc. Regarding the use of the word 'I'. It is a bundle identifier, it refers to a mammilian body, with limbs, eyes, etc., that has a certain location in space-time, and functions in certain ways. It has other identifiers, such as 'Xeno'. You have never seen this however, you just see text on a screen probably. A collection of certain specific parts, such as windshield, chassis, tyres, wheels, engine (which is also a collection of parts) we can call a car. That the collection of limbs, and eyes, and thoughts that has the tag Xeno does not imply that there is something in that collection that is an 'I', a special sort of entity that is called a 'me'. Mathematically a collection equals the sum of its parts, not more. A collection can have some kinds of functionality as a whole that single parts may not have. A hammer plus a human can drive a nail into a piece of wood which it could not do by itself, but the hammer and the human are not intrinsically more in themselves as a result of that temporary alignment. As Nisargadatta said, it forces a person to look within if all they know is thinking and doing. The 'within' really is not a separate place in the universe, You know it's a not separate place how? Because I amuse you? WaitI mean: Because YOU'RE a Nisargadatta devotee of many decades or what? Can ya scurry up a quote for us. I ask, cuz you used the word "said." Which I take meant "wrote via translator/transcriber of pristine merit" not "I heard him in his original language and I know that language perfectly" or "I have studied at his feet." See the problem here with this kind of use of words by you? This is simply a matter of definition. The universe contains all. Physical, and if you like, awareness. It is defined this way, nothing outside, the concept of outside being nonsensical, and therefore there is no separate place. The mind's conceptualisation creates separation, this and that, within the matrix of the universe. A brick is not a horse, or 'I' am this special unique thing inside this body — but that is just an idea created by thought and the meaning of and relation of words one to another, and the way the mind connects them to experience. As for Nisargadatta, I heard about him about
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How does one decide if a person's testimony is valid?
Duveyoung, I was replying to this and Yahoo managed to not save most of my draft, so I am having to reconstruct about 2/3 of what I had already written in response, and I had a business trip this afternoon, so my memory is no longer fresh, so if you expect a reply from me, you will have to wait a bit more, a few days I think. A devil's advocate is always the best adversary, unless of course we are on the same side there. From: Duveyoung To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, December 19, 2014 1:30 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How does one decide if a person's testimony is valid? Anartaxius -- gunna devil-advocate on yer buns. Gunna be snarky N "the worm turns" funzies. Just to see what I can getcha to pony up about why your authority in these matters, well, matters. You speak as I do when I'm really doing my mad-poet high-stepping -- dead certain of everything -- only I do it with a jester-wearing-a-hat costume, and you come across as professorial with a jaunty mortar board hat. Well, listen to my screeching from the back of the room below, and let's us just see what can be seen. Please take my attack, yes, attack, in the spirit of those English Parliament debates where the other party yells in the most raucous, rude, and in your face manner...only this time I'll feign some low-life kinda-Bronx accent.with an imagined voicing not unlike a delivery by Groot. (But, actually I'm still angry at Curtis for ripping me apart like this a few weeks ago...I'm just his fanboy trying to impress him...hee hee.} ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Yes, no longer mutually exclusive. I think it is basically a teaching technique. I think. I think. Hm. Either way, if you're using the word "I" or "think" then, we're talking about processes of a human nervous system, and that seems, dang it, ever so iffy -- maybe even, error prone, maybe even bullshit. Please clear this up for us. The rest of your statement kinda depends on it. An "I" seems to have the power to "think" -- I'm chewing on this, but it's flavor is kinda like gum from under a seat. As Nisargadatta said, it forces a person to look within if all they know is thinking and doing. The 'within' really is not a separate place in the universe, You know it's a not separate place how? Because I amuse you? WaitI mean: Because YOU'RE a Nisargadatta devotee of many decades or what? Can ya scurry up a quote for us. I ask, cuz you used the word "said." Which I take meant "wrote via translator/transcriber of pristine merit" not "I heard him in his original language and I know that language perfectly" or "I have studied at his feet." See the problem here with this kind of use of words by you? it is made to seem that way at first to break the habit of looking without. Nisargadatta told you this? Again I ask, cuz, man, authority is dripping off of this statement, and it's a statement that is shockingly different from anything specific that Nisargadatta SEEMS to have said in the books that I have read. Hm. I think we have a case of you interpreting and me interpreting, and now I gotta ask ya why you come across as "it's so obvious" about this thing. I'm not a smart person, but I try harder. Let us all know just what you're saying here. Are you enlightened or what? If you're hinting at it like this, I've got a basket of rotten veggies back here, ya know? But then at some point you have to connect the inner and outer viewpoint that has been constructed and consciously take down the mental and experiential barrier that seems to exist between inner and outer. And everyone understands exactly what your words mean because . . . ? Cuz, hey, I don't know JACK SHIT about this "connecting" skill you're suggesting is to be humanly used. God might be able to do that, but . . . So? What exactly happens? Does the ego get the two databases together and say, "Now all you fuckers inside the skull gotta understand the outsiders are the same as you here insiders, so leave off with that outer guys are other guys shit, and you outer guys with all your snooty "but we're physical" shit gotta stuff that crappola and see that you are merely reflections of the inners." Is it something like that? Does the ego just up and finally take the reins of the whole spectrum of experiencing and TAKE CHARGE? Where's is the volition you seem to believe can be COMMANDEERED to do this kinda micro-neuron-level restructuring? I gotta know, cuz that's some crazy shit -- and I'm interested. It is curious that even after decades of meditation, some people SOME people, eh? Meaning my decades of inquiry were for naught? I got low esteem here, so naturally everything's my fault, so with a knee jerk like that, I gotta push back and be brave enough to challenge you. I think you're saying your KEN, your wisdom is deeper, more clear, more substantially integral
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Rick - Until the Vicious Negativity is removed - Goodbye
Buck, a common definition of the word insanity is "doing the same thing over
and over again and expecting it to come out differently". This phrase has been
attributed to various people such as Benjamin Franklin and Albert Einstein.
However, whoever wrote it, it does seem to apply to your clinical case as your
desire to alter the character of Fairfield Life has failed 100% of the time. A
clear demonstration of the total lack of support of natural law. You could
devote your time to a more worthy cause, anything that might have a slim chance
of success, such as saving frogs from extinction.
By the way, most of us here are experiencing a lot of silence, so we do not
need to stifle Fairfield Life in order to get some. Go over to The Peaked and
you should experience some silence over there as you would likely have to hold
your tongue. Here it is freedom of ideas, freedom of expression to a very large
degree, freedom to be sceptical and questioning, freedom to test ideas and see
if they hold up under scrutiny. You want to be like Joseph Stalin. He underwent
training as a priest for half a decade, so he was well prepared to enforce lack
of dissent when he came to power in Russia. Saddam Hussein idolized Joseph
Stalin too. Do you really want to be like these guys?.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or
prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or
of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition
the government for a redress of grievances.
Those are basically the rules under which Fairfield Life conducts is business.
Why then 'tis none to you; for there is nothing either good or bad, but
thinking makes it so. —Shakespeare
From: "dhamiltony...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]"
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, December 7, 2014 2:51 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Rick - Until the Vicious Negativity is removed -
Goodbye
Rick, it would be very good to extendsuch a suspended silence upon FFL
even unto the first day of Spring...
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Puja Pictures™
I heard that Francis Knight was asked to add M's image to the existing painting
(while he was still alive) which I think she also painted, but if someone knows
more, let me know.
From: "TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]"
To: "FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com"
Sent: Wednesday, December 3, 2014 6:51 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Puja Pictures™
I'm not sure when this painting first appeared, except that I do not
remember every seeing it -- either in its version with Maharishi or without --
up to the point when I bailed from the TMO. That is, 1977 or so. I'm pretty
sure the first place I ever saw it or heard anything about it was here on FFL.
From: salyavin808
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 3, 2014 7:37 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Puja Pictures™
Did you have the tradition painting at your puja? I just had the GD portrait.
Come to think of it, we had a massive holy tradition painting without Maharishi
in it at both academies I lived in. And I remember thinking the one with him in
it was a bit rubbish when I first saw it. Like they'd added him in that pose to
associate him with the others but in a fake devotional way rather than the "I'm
just as good as them" way that they - and undoubtably he - liked to be thought
of.
Or is my memory bad and he's always been there?
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :
Well, we all know what the original painting that Maharishi Mahesh Yogi
commissioned to show his position within the Shankaran tradition looks like:
http://www.meru.ch/uploads/images/Vedic+Tradition.jpg
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| | | | http://www.meru.ch/uploads/images/Vedic+Tradition.jpg | |
| View on www.meru.ch| Preview by Yahoo |
| |
Here's the version used by students of Thom Knoles when they teach "Vedic
Meditation":
There will be no levitating. Expect no unicorns.
| |
| | | | There will be no levitating. Expect no unicorns. My second
meeting with Matt was another one-on-one. Matt warned me that there would be a
ceremony to start, during which I would be given a mantra... | |
|View on www.popsuga... | Preview by Yahoo |
| |
And here's the version used by devotees of Sri Sri Ravi Shankar:
http://bawandinesh.name/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/guru-parampara1.jpg
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| | | | http://bawandinesh.name/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/guru-...
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|View on bawandinesh... | Preview by Yahoo |
| |
No violation of copyright obviously, even though the original painting was
commissioned BY Maharishi and was his own design, from what I understand.
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Nabby's Exit
If the subject was so despicable, why do people keep bringing it up? It was
past history. They can stay over on that other namby pamby forum, with its
phallic symbol (a peak). He could not resist one last chance to spread his
paedophile interests. This site is for the nitty gritty of spiritual growth,
not for esoteric mystical nonsense. A wise decision to unsubscribe, this place
is not for weak minds, the emotionally overwrought, and those that see snakes
for ropes at every turn. You are as you obsess. Except for Share and Richard,
the subject would seem to be closed here days ago.
From: nablusoss1008
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 3, 2014 4:36 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Butt-Fucking-Babies
who's idea was concieved in the sick mind of the Turq and written in a
post here on FFL caused many to leave. Later he tries to wriggle himself out of
the net by making ridicelous claims that Dutch police is investigating or
watching American and German posters on an American blog. The fact is that
these posters didn't want to be on the same list as a pervert and left. It
would be to insult the intelligence of others here to believe that they buy the
idea that Dutch police have the time or interest of investigating foreign
nationals when the sick poster is living in Holland, right in their midst. The
Turq is lying about the so-called "cop" in the same way as he has been lying
about "lurking reporters" and a host of other issues. But who's to blame him,
he's living such a pityful excistence that he has to make things up to appear
as ANYTHING else than the scumbag he is.As expected some posters here have
tried to bury the fact that the Turq posted what he did, Sally in a sea of
sceptisism and irony, Bhairitu in a sea of self aggrandisement, anartaxius in a
sea of words and Michael Jackson in a sea of profanity. As expected.As was the
fact that Rick Archer did nothing so far. After all it was his idea to create a
forum for dumping on all things TMO and with most of the sane people gone he
certainly got what he wanted. That he has allowed pedophiliac ideas to be
expressed on this forum without taking any action will be his cross to carry.
He'll probably make some joke about that sentence in a future comment. But
sarcastic, threatening or ironic comments by anyone will not be read as I'm
happily unsubscribing. #yiv0040276913 #yiv0040276913 --
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Richard and Share
Share, I did not listen to the Hammond event. I have been reading Curtis' reports. I am basically ignoring Hammond because I do not think he is all there. Richard however is pointlessly prolonging this thing about Barry, already long past. Like Barry has expressed, I think Richard has sucked you into his world and that you do not have sufficient discrimination to see what is happening. Barry can be mean, no doubt of that, but Richard is wallowing in it in a very unhealthy way. FFL is for adults but not an 'adult site' in the way that term is normally pejoratively used and Richard is trying to skew the sense of what goes on here, which you seem to think is funny because you are air-headed in a good natured, but unperceptive way. I think of Richard as strangely devious. Barry is normally absolutely direct. I would much rather deal with Mr. Enlightened Flanegin than Richard because he is also direct in his clumsy and sometimes dismissive way. The only time I have seen you really sharpen up was when when you got in a huff over things Judy said to you and you responded like a normal human being. Your Pollyanna* act is hard to take sometimes. *'Pollyanna is a best-selling 1913 novel by Eleanor H. Porter. The title character is named Pollyanna Whittier, a young orphan who goes to live in Beldingsville, Vermont, with her wealthy but stern and cold spinster Aunt Polly, who does not want to take in Pollyanna, but feels it is her duty to her late sister. Pollyanna's philosophy of life centers on what she calls "The Glad Game," an optimistic attitude she learned from her father. The game consists of finding something to be glad about in every situation. It originated in an incident one Christmas when Pollyanna, who was hoping for a doll in the missionary barrel, found only a pair of crutches inside. Making the game up on the spot, Pollyanna's father taught her to look at the good side of things—in this case, to be glad about the crutches because "we didn't need to use them!"' 'With this philosophy, and her own sunny personality and sincere, sympathetic soul, Pollyanna brings so much gladness to her aunt's dispirited New England town that she transforms it into a pleasant place to live. The Glad Game shields her from her aunt's stern attitude: when Aunt Polly puts her in a stuffy attic room without carpets or pictures, she exults at the beautiful view from the high window; when she tries to "punish" her niece for being late to dinner by sentencing her to a meal of bread and milk in the kitchen with the servant Nancy, Pollyanna thanks her rapturously because she likes bread and milk, and she likes Nancy.' As a result, it seems like you are escaping and avoiding when people like Barry are actually trying to connect with you in a positive way. I think you are the only one here where Barry has made a real attempt to genuinely break through that Pollyanna shell you project. I almost think it frustrates him. It's like at a carnival where you throw a ball, or some rings at a target and it is rigged so almost always, the ball bounces back or the ring misses and the prize is lost. Things thrown your way bounce off, but always with the feeling of superficial and inconsequential connection, as if you are not really there as an intelligence that apprehends and ascertains. Perhaps that is why you and Richard have linked up, because Richard does not seem to connect with anyone in a legitimate way. I sort of see why the mean girls club ragged on you so much. Seeing the good in everything is not the same as acting as if everything is good and of no consequential import. Seeing the good in everything is seeing and understanding how the universe flows and how those flows fit together, and sometimes that means seeing into the heart of darkness, and the places in our own mind we would rather not visit. But if we visit them consciously, we eventually sail past them into still, imperturbable waters. Why not do the conversation with Richard in private where it is less likely to endanger FFL? From: "Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" To: "FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com" Sent: Monday, December 1, 2014 9:43 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Richard and Share Xeno, Curtis has posted something very cool about the Hammond event. Why not focus on replying to that and simply ignore me and Richard? Wouldn't that be more logical? From: "anartax...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 1, 2014 3:33 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Richard and Share Maybe you should take this conversation over to the_Peak. We would prefer to discuss something more important here. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Richard, your second paragraph about turq posting all the porn he wants just had me laughing my head off. Then laughing my head off at my own thought: can't wait!Obviously I've lost it, whatever
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Post Count Wed 26-Nov-14 00:15:11 UTC
I said you were less impulsive, I did not say by how much. I included thus,
sufficient wiggle room to allow your level of impulsiveness to be zero, and
thus not an issue. As to being a better thinker and being more coherent, yes.
If I knew you in person, I could evaluate humble, but otherwise, I do not give
a crap as long as your output is provocative, profound, or entertaining.
From: "TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]"
To: "FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com"
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 4:10 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Post Count Wed 26-Nov-14 00:15:11 UTC
Snipping out of respect for your forwarded dissertation on brevity:
From: "Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartax...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]"
Whether or not you like what Barry writes, his output is more coherent and well
thought out than Fleetwood's, because he is less impulsive.
Impulsiveness is really not the issue.
My output is what it is because I am more coherent and a better thinker.
Humble about it, too.
:-)
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Re: [FairfieldLife] All Beings Enlightened
Hey Nabby I do not know if someone became enlightened whether that would shake Turq's core beliefs. We are not really certain of what his beliefs are, in particular because he claims he is only presenting opinions. Also Maharishi said techniques can only take you to what he called god consciousness. And, finally that real enlightenment (brahman) comes 'in time', that is, if it comes. Therefore no practice gets you enlightened, it just sets the stage and then it is a waiting game. Now I have practised a number of different techniques over the years, and each has done something to forward my experience. But the most interesting experiences and the experience of progress came from moments that did not happen while practising a technique. And though TM was the technique I practised most consistently over the longest period of time, it cannot be said in the end, which one produced what experience, all were involved. All the techniques produced an experience of silence, some were far more powerful than TM in producing short periods of intense silence. TM provided a consistent wearing away of certain sorts of obstacles to experience. I would credit it with a large portion the grunt work of wearing away delusion (which includes spiritual delusions as well). Unlike some here I am not adverse to TM, but I also think it does not work well for everyone. I do know someone who I believe has only practised TM and who I regard as awakened. But then I also have known others who did some other things and not TM, who I also regard as awakened. Fleetwood would not be able to convince Barry he is enlightened as Barry regards him as a narcissistic bore. There are many things about enlightenment that Fleetwood ought to be able to understand and he doesn't seem to understand. Now that may be because he is not the most articulate person in the world describing his experience. For example that video on Buddha at the Gas Pump is not an example of subtlety of expression. I think Jim has had some sort of profound awakening experience, but is at least partly misinterpreting its significance, and he seems unwilling to discuss the matter further. But simply saying you are enlightened and are in silence is not a convincing way to go about it, particularly if you use it as a hammer to proclaim others' ignorance and low station on the spiritual ladder. Awakening alone is not enlightenment, a sometimes long period of assimilation and further refinement and adjustments in understanding follows. As for enlightened dawn, I have so far read the first month's worth of enlightened_dawn11's posts. It certainly sounds like Jim/Fleetwood attempting to be some other person. In that first month, 'dawn' did not say he/she was a woman. But some of the posters thought it was a she at first. Vaj first addressed the poster as 'Ms. Enlightened', and further on Barry used the pronoun 'her' in referring to Dawn. Dawn did not correct those impressions. Also Dawn referred to Vaj and Barry as 'Mr. Vaj' and 'Mr. B'. And Dawn brought up the idea that Barry was a bully, just like Jim does. I have not gotten further into all those exchanges, but there is, it seems to me, as far as I have got, that it was easy to get the impression Dawn was a woman and also, that with hindsight, Dawn was Jim, which was the conclusion that Barry came to eventually, and Dawn denied it back then when confronted. Jim posted to the forum the previous year under his own name, and returned as Dawn saying he/she was new to the forum. I have not looked at the final posts Jim made under his own name, or most of the posts that Vaj and Barry made to or about Dawn, so I still have an incomplete picture. This was three or so years before I came onto the forum. I let you draw a conclusion from this brief sketch. Digging this information out of the old files is difficult, but it is kind of interesting, but I have not read enough of it to be completely certain. From: nablusoss1008 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 9:14 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] All Beings Enlightened As pointed out by several posters here, only the Turq believes Fleetwood posted as "enlightened dawn". The truth of the matter is that anyone claiming enlightenment from TM shakes the Turq's core belief : If I didn't make it no one else can. He choose to forget that his shot at it was half-hearted and lasted only a few years. When someone like Fleetwood comes along he is reminded of a wasted life and as we can see in almost every post here these days, becomes so angry he makes things up to the degree he believes in it. Instead of angry at Fleetwood and Richard reminding this poor fellow of his wasted life he should be grateful. Though 70 years old he could still pick up his mantra and make something useful out of his remaining years. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : On 11/24/2014 4:21 PM, TurquoiseBeeturq
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Post Count Wed 26-Nov-14 00:15:11 UTC
Share wrote: 'So Xeno, now that you've been corrupted into writing short posts, would you deem them also thin?' Because the universe may be perceived in pieces, all is corruptible; no thing is immune from being demeaned, truncated, belittled, debased, degraded, despised, disparaged, abased, and detracted from. Those that that think they are incorruptible (Judy comes to mind) are not aware of their own human nature and the nature of the world. A single brief post many does not make, Share. If you look at most posts by Fleetwood, they tend to be short. Barry on the other hand sometimes writes quite a bit. He may even write more than Fleetwood, but he normally collects his thoughts together and arranges them instead of shooting from the hip. The post count limit we used to have tended to force people to be a bit more coherent in their output. Whether or not you like what Barry writes, his output is more coherent and well thought out than Fleetwood's, because he is less impulsive. Fleetwood is also more dismissive, preferring not to delve into an issue he cannot be bothered with, and so he writes a quick dismissive note ignoring any points made. While Barry can be dismissive too, after all he does not read a lot of posts here, but he often goes into some detail why he thinks something is nuts. The master here on FFL of often lengthy but usually irrelevant posting is Richard. When he gets going, no one can match Richard for pointless quantity and number of posts. It always seems to me that Richard is seeing what goes on FFL out the corner of his eye, but his mind is elsewhere with a different agenda (i.e., trolling) so the posts look as if they have something to do with a particular discussion but really do not have that much relevance. In my e-mail I have a Richard folder, and from time to time just mark them 'all read'. When I post, because I am a slow writer, and tend to length, I do not have time to read too many posts, maybe because I take too long to write them, and so cannot remain in any particular conversation for very long most of the time. Thank you heartily for noticing that I am corruptible. There is a wonderful grit to corruption and graft, ill will and misunderstanding. It is the spice of life, and the greatest moments are when we can smooth over that roughness with a bit of harmony. Life then is not thin and drawn or empty. I do think before I write. But if you are interested in brevity, take a gander at the following: The Lost Art of Brevity by Mike Myatt Do you ever grow weary of listening to the verbose, or reading the work of those that have issues with clear articulation? I certainly do…but fear not; the lost art of brevity is making a comeback. Those of you that know me have come to understand that I prefer to cut to the chase. I like to get to the root of an issue as quickly as possible. While I appreciate the great oratory skills of those who communicate using wonderful word pictures, or the academics who can wax eloquent while always using the best form of prose, I prefer my business communication to be quick and dirty. In the immortal words of Jack Webb: "The facts ma'am…just the facts." In today's post I'll look at the benefits associated with the resurgence of brevity. Let me begin clearly stating that it is not my goal to be perceived as a word-basher. I appreciate anyone who has command of a great vocabulary, but I don't have time for a 30 minute explanation of something that could have been, and should have been, communicated in 2 minutes. Brevity is rare because it takes both skill and effort to simplify the complex. It's easier to remain ethereal, vague and ambiguous than it is to communicate with purpose and clarity. My message today is a simple one – refining your communications skill is well worth the effort. Don't be the person known for rambling on, be the person known for being articulate and to the point. Probably the greatest example of the power of brevity comes from what is widely considered to be the greatest speech in American history: "The Gettysburg Address." President Lincoln's speech was only 10 sentences long (272 words), and lasted less than a mere 3 minutes in length. Contrast Lincoln's brilliant example of the power of brevity with the keynote speech that day. The renowned orator Edward Everett preceded President Lincoln on the podium at Gettysburg. Everett's speech was an amazing two hours in length. He was after all the President of Harvard, but I digress…My question is this: which speech was more effective, and more memorable? Ah, the power of brevity… The good news is that there are two big trends emboldening those of us who prefer brevity over other more irritating forms of communication. First is the time pressure for our attention. People simply don't have the time to listen to, or read, unnecessarily long forms of communication. The second trend is technology's recognition of the first tren
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: All Beings Enlightened
No, Buck, this is not what it means, it means people are directly seen as being
in the enlightened state, not necessarily realised however. If this makes no
sense, maybe some day it will.
From: "dhamiltony...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]"
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2014 4:15 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: All Beings Enlightened
Yes,in what we now know as spiritual 'field effect'.
Jai Guru Dev, -Buck in the Dome
anartaxius writes :
One of the things mentioned about Buddha's enlightenment is that at that moment
he said that 'all beings were simultaneously enlightened with his awakening'.
The phrase is translated in different ways but they all basically say the same
thing, that with awakening all beings were perceived as enlightened.
I presume Jim can clarify what this means. #yiv1158574437 #yiv1158574437 --
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: All Beings Enlightened
No. Did MJ say that? I am having trouble connecting to FFL or my email about
half the time. If it is spring, and the sun is shining and the birds are
singing and were there apple trees bearing fruit (not likely in spring), and
Jim did happen to walk on the sidewalk in that situation, then that would
happen, but not because Jim walked on the sidewalk. I suppose enlightened
people who do not teach or have experience teaching enlightenment would be very
good at analysing others states (Jim excepted of course). Maharishi, if you
consider him to be enlightened, when he started talking about biology and DNA
seemed to be almost clueless as to what it was about. He had to learn, just
like everyone else.
I heard a story from someone who used to be around Maharishi. Maharishi would
meet people. A topic would come up and he would grapple with it. Then the next
person came in to see him, and Maharishi would bring up that topic as a point
of the discussion. That is a great way to familiarise yourself with something.
I think the topic this person mentioned Maharishi discussed was chainsaws.
From: "awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]"
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2014 4:39 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: All Beings Enlightened
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :
One of the things mentioned about Buddha's enlightenment is that at that moment
he said that 'all beings were simultaneously enlightened with his awakening'.
The phrase is translated in different ways but they all basically say the same
thing, that with awakening all beings were perceived as enlightened.
I presume Jim can clarify what this means.
Do you also presume, as MJ does, that when Jim walks along the sidewalk the sun
shines, the birds spontaneously burst into song and apple trees erupt in his
wake in order to feed the world's starving? Or do enlightened people only have
the ability to analyze other people's theories and give the ultimate synopsis?
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
I think this brings up an interesting point. How does one define 'enlightenment'. The most overreaching attempts include the entire universe as a connected unity, and that would imply simply that all that exists is what enlightenment is about. If you include everything you cannot define enlightenment as A, B, C minus some bad parts you do not like. So if, simplistically the universe is A, B, C, X, Y, and Z, you have to include them all. There is a phrase in Zen 'walk off with the farmer's ox, steal the blind man's food', which is an expression of unboundedness. This is kind of how the TMO behaves. From my perspective, enlightenment does not have any injunctions on behaviour in spite of advertisements to the contrary, all enlightenment does is reveal the connectedness of the universe, and if you want to be a 'good person', first you have to define what a good person is, and then you have to act that way, and that is a local phenomenon, an aspect of the universe far reduced from the whole. You could be enlightened and a criminal. If you listen to Charles Manson (I saw that picture online too), while he seems sort of crazy, he also often expresses unboundedness in his understanding of the world. Religions, which presumably have some connexion with the idea of enlightenment have all these rules for governing behaviour, and the question one could ask is, if religion is so great and will straighten people out, why are these rules necessary? (and one could also ask why are the rules inconsistent between religions regarding behaviour). If you say god created the universe and the way it runs, then the universe is a serial killer. Like father, like son and daughter. Looking at religious figures, gurus, etc., one cannot conclude that these rules and enlightenment techniques substantially affect behaviour that we would call 'bad'. This issue of behaviour is one which we in civilised society do not seem to have much of a clue on how to solve, and all the methods we have invented to fix it have failed. How do you traverse society without leaving mangled bodies, psychologically damaged bodies, emotionally damaged bodies, in your wake? There does not seem to be a direct connexion with seeing the world as unbounded, and acting in it in a bound way unless there is an internal switch that pains you if you cause harm. Some people do not seem to have that switch (sociopaths and psychopaths), or a 'damaged' switch and have reduced empathy. Some people are crushed by having too much empathy. If you eliminate pain and suffering from your own life, will you care about others if life no longer pains you? There seems to be a variable in all this that is not accounted for and which does not seem to be affected much by the things people do in the hope of gaining enlightenment. An example of unboundedness and unity from the Bible. Isaiah, in a literal translation (bolded are words in original Hebrew). Except for me, there is no Elohim; I am forearming you, yet you do not know me, That they may know, From the rising of the sun and from the west, that there is no one apart from me; I am Yahweh, and there is no other. Former of light and creator of darkness, maker of good and creator of evil, I, Yahweh, make all these. Here you have all the darkness you would want emanating from the supposed source of creation (a great way to express narcissism too). There are similar passage in the Bhagavad-Gita. If everything, good and bad are integral in existence and are sourced from the same origin or have the same being, and we come to direct knowledge of that, what is to prevent us from being all those qualities that (some) people abhor? Light is the left hand of darknessand darkness the right hand of light.Two are one, life and death, lyingtogether like lovers in kemmer,like hands joined together,like the end and the way. —Ursula K. Le Guin From: "TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" To: "FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com" Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2014 12:05 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor From: "anartax...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" The Zen trained Adyashanti had this to say about 'enlightenment success': 'When I looked around at the Buddhist tradition, I realized that the success rate was terrible. People were in it for enlightenment, but very few were actually getting enlightened. If this were a business, I thought, we'd be bankrupt.' 'I think it's unfortunate that a person can spend hour after hour, day after day, year after year, dedicating his life to enlightenment, and yet the very notion that anybody attains enlightenment is a taboo. We're all going after this; but God forbid somebody says they've realized it. We don't believe them, we're cynical, we have doubt; we go immediately into a semi- (or overt) attack mode. To me, it highlights the fact that people are chasing an awakening they don't believe coul
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FFL Hating Turq and Belief in God is a form of mental illness
These are really nice photos here. The composition is good. This is one of the first things poor photography lacks. These are also technically competent, which is fortunately much easier to achieve these days. I have put up a few snapshots occasionally but I tend to delete them after a while. I don't like things circulating on the Internet though for most of the things I have posted it probably would not matter that much. When I was younger I used black and white film, but now digital cameras shoot everything in colour even though some have black and white settings, it is better to convert digital colour to black and white after the fact when one has more control. Photographers should study art, and old paintings from all schools in my opinion. Composition is primarily a function of luminance forms which is basically black and white, masses of light and dark and grey. Colour is a secondary consideration in composition, like the icing on a well made cake. One of the main differences between photographers with lousy compositional skills is the difference between object-oriented or content oriented photography and image or field or framing oriented photography. In the former the 'shooter' focuses on some object they find interesting or a patch of colour. In the latter the photographer arranges all the elements of the scene in the bounding frame of the camera, he/she is not pointing at a specific object (even though there may be a primary subject, such as a portrait of a person), rather the relationship between the elements in the scene are consciously photographed, and this is a function of basic forms. From: "curtisdeltabl...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2014 10:48 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FFL Hating Turq and Belief in God is a form of mental illness Thanks for clearing that up. All beautiful and I guess if I had any smarts I would have noticed the style difference. Did you take the cloudy shot in black and white or desaturate it in Photoshop? I always wonder which is better. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Wow Richard, those are gorgeous. I'll bet in print they are even better. Oops, I thought that would happen. Should have separated the four at the bottom and put my name on, just in case ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : On 10/27/2014 12:38 PM, anartaxius@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: > >>I read somewhere on FFL you were a photographer. Are you an artist or a hack (just taking soulless pictures for money)? I do not believe you have ever given us a sample of your work. I am sure there are critics in the audience who would be glad to evaluate your artistic ability. >> > >I've been a subscriber to this group for years and I've never been able to get anyone to show their work, except for a few posted photos by Ann, a few animations by Barry2, and a few sunset photos by Jim. I've always assumed the only professional performer on this list was Curtis. Rita and I both went to art school and have worked as professionals for most of out lives as graphic artists or designers. We look forward to seeing your work. > > > >Photograph by Richard J. Williams, 2013 > > Very nice. I like taking photos when I'm strolling about. But I aint no pro, so don't be getting harsh on me: > > > > > > > >
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostasy, is a terrible thing.
Life long atheists cannot commit apostasy for there never is, nor was, anything for them to abandon. Apostasy (/əˈpɒstəsi/; Greek: ἀποστασία (apostasia), "a defection or revolt") is the formal disaffiliation from or abandonment or renunciation of a religion by a person. One who commits apostasy (or who apostatizes) is known as an apostate. If 'spiritually, people should speak the sweet truth', what should they speak non-spiritually? Maybe they should just speak the truth instead of lying. Spiritual people divide themselves from the rest of mankind, and each other, so presumably they would speak with less rancour than the rest of us, except that is not what we observe. From: "dhamiltony...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, October 24, 2014 11:32 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostasy, is a terrible thing. Ditto, Spiritually, people should speak the sweet truth. Saha Nav, satyam bruyat, priyam bruyat speak the truth, speak sweetly na bruyat satyam apriyam | don't speak truth in an unloving way priyam ca nanritam bruyat don't speak untruth in a pleasant way esha dharmah sanatanah || this is the eternal law Or, TM Saha Nav: never do we speak negativity, never do we denounce anyone, http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/365694 Apostasy is just wrong thinking clearly getting over the line. Or as the Shakers would have said in their way, "Out of Union with the Gospel." -Buck An apostate of course is different from someone just being a critic. The critic, who as a satisfied and regular practitioner may offer some criticism as in a state of critique. Such critique is then also quite different in grade from those others being more negative and then again from states of pernicious negativity advocacy, like those people who are both quitters and haters in method. That becomes a pretty clear sign of someone who has fallen in to TM apostasy. We should be mindful and clear about this as we filter our reading and interacting with our fellow community members here. That is justly good and sound subtle spirituality. Yes, like considering the source of posts I certainly sort my incoming mail accordingly. Om we should have, we could have better sorted the FFL membership here accordingly from way back with more aggressive moderation against the apostaic spam of outright apostasy here. Posting on FFL should be held a privilege and not just some right. Saha Nav, -Buck, a Satisfied Customer by the Practise of Maharishi's Transcendental Meditation Programme Yes, that 'Disaffiliation'; Friends, for any of us we certainly know an apostate when we see one. For instance, with The Science of Creative Intelligence of which TM is the practical application. Seeing as US jurisprudence judges SCI to be a Religion it would not be a stretch to say that people who would renounce TM just by dropping or quitting the practice of said meditation and who then promote publicly against TM with an advocacy of negativity are in fact in an apostate state: apostate, as apostates in apostasy. Q.E.D., TM Apostates. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: >>> >>> >>>As I'm pretty sure both Xeno and Barry know, apostasy is not limited to >>>defection from a religion. One can become an apostate from any previous >>>loyalty. >>> >>> 'Apostasy is the formal disaffiliation from or abandonment or renunciation of a religion by a person. One who commits apostasy is known as an apostate.' >> >> As I never was the member of any religion, I cannot ever be correctly >> accused of apostasy. As the TM org claims it is not a religion, so no >> one can ever be correctly accused for disafilliating or abandoning TM as >> apostasy (unless of course the TM org is lying about that claim). > >It's an NPD Thang, Xeno. If you've convinced yourself that the POV held by >your self is "true," and that any POV that contradicts it is is "untrue," >then you get to make up the rules. There is absolutely *no problem* with >declaring someone an apostate from an organization that you declare is not >a religion. :-) It's a lot like having an argument in which there is only one participant -- the person trying to start the argument -- and then declaring one's self the "winner." :-) Narcissistic Personality Disorder really *does* explain almost all of the aberrant behavior we see on FFL. I would suggest that this mental disorder is the true legacy of Maharishi's teachings. :-)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Belief in God is a form of mental illness
I think you hit on something here I never considered. Social interaction. I do not think there is any objective measure by which one considers such experiences valuable. There are certain things I like, certain things I do not, and I go for the ones I like. While I do not know why, those things I like I sometimes like to share with others. A piece of music, a movie. Why did you post about Bruce Cockburn's music, his book? I am not sure there is any reliable objective measure why one likes something other than a general propensity to avoid pain and to maintain comfort. Now if you recall Maharishi said the mind seeks a greater field of happiness. Because he was hawking TM, he skewed the concept to correspond with his metaphysic (the transcendental field, the unified field). You do not need a field. Basically I think it comes down to you like stuff, and don't like other stuff. The rationalisations come later. If there is any objective evidence for that previous sentence it might be split brain experiments. When one side of the brain of people with this condition are asked to explain why the other side of the body did something, it makes up an explanation. The whole spiritual trip is a post hoc explanation fabricated to explain why something you like, in this case some kind of meditation for example, or the experience that is supposed to result from that, should be valuable to someone else. Spiritual endeavours are really quite a complex bother, all these things that one has to practice or think about, so to get someone to get involved in it really requires a real snow job. You have to bury them with advertising about how great things will be if they do this. You need an intellectual framework to explain why doing such atypical things will benefit. To get someone to come around to your ideas about what you like, it may not matter if it doesn't really work. You make up this because you are socially wired to a certain extent, and a successful social interaction results in feeling good. So there really is not much of a reason for saying such experiences as spiritual experiences are valuable, you hawk them that way, just as you would a certain artist, a good restaurant, a walk on a nice evening. Because social interactions are on an individual level, I would say the ego is involved, that level of personal identity that thinks it is running the show. The ego provides the explanations. From a scientific level, the experiments that indicate the brain comes to decisions often as far as 7 or 8 seconds prior to that decision comes into conscious awareness. That would mean you are not really in control of anything. Life goes on this and that way. Stuff happens, you think you do stuff. Hawking TM or hawking Bruce or hawking Hawking resuls in satisfaction. Whatever floats your boat. As for experiences of unboundedness, I really don't think of them that way any more. The spiritual trip is the strangest con in the universe. Suppose I put it this way: How would you like to be exactly the way you are for as long as you are? This is what I am offering you. It will take you about 40 or 50 years, and you will have to do all these different things, adopt crazy ideas, do exercises, sit quietly, eat special foods, take weird medicines. Want to jump in an try this out? In order to get people to do what you like, you have to be more devious in your enticements. It all comes down to 'I like this, and I want you to like it too'. Psst, I have some secret stuff that other people do not know, and if you let me tell you, and you do what I say, you will be able to say every day 'I'm gonna help people! Because I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and, doggonit, people like me! From: "TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" To: "FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com" Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2014 8:33 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Belief in God is a form of mental illness From: "Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartax...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" From: "TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" From: "anartax...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" The question for 'spiritually' oriented individuals would be, is there a way to construct a system that gives us these experiences of unboundedness that does not also wreak havoc with this gullibility weakness in the human nervous system. But that would presuppose that there is an actual VALUE to these "experiences of unboundedness." That has not been established, merely assumed by centuries of religious fanatics trying to convince others that its value trumps everything else. I would suggest going back to the starting point and, if you want to invent a better system, make a case for these types of experience having a value in the first place. Most re
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Belief in God is a form of mental illness
From: "TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" To: "FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com" Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2014 2:37 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Belief in God is a form of mental illness From: "anartax...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2014 3:17 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Belief in God is a form of mental illness The human species lack of hard wiring makes us more flexible for learning; we do not go out and dig burrows and look for nuts in the forest everyday (usually), but it makes us susceptible to the mental equivalent of a viral attack. We here have all experienced the attack, and many here are still dancing to the virus's tune. This is why I called religion a memetic malady or disease. That is different from organic insanity. Religion is induced insanity. I can live with that. But I don't see any difference in the end state that the "induced insanity" of religion creates and the end state that "organic insanity" creates. Either way, one is insane. Maybe it's a Buddhist thing...Buddhists aren't really concerned about HOW things got to be the way they are, only THAT they are the way they are, and how to make the best of that. If you do not mind being surrounded by insane people I suppose that is OK. If you (or someone else probably) want to make a diagnosis and want to cure people of the malady, then a proper diagnosis is necessary as organic insanity and intractable, impacted belief systems would have a different treatment. Organic insanity may not be curable but certain forms might be ameliorated by drugs. With memetic insanity, you basically have to dismantle the patient's belief system while at the same time instilling a framework for rational thought. As we see here on FFL, this process does not work on the web, something more visceral is required, an environment where the beliefs and botched reasoning simply do not work at all and provide negative consequences if pursued. If that sounds suspiciously like brainwashing, it probably is, brainwashing to remove brainwashing. The question for 'spiritually' oriented individuals would be, is there a way to construct a system that gives us these experiences of unboundedness that does not also wreak havoc with this gullibility weakness in the human nervous system. But that would presuppose that there is an actual VALUE to these "experiences of unboundedness." That has not been established, merely assumed by centuries of religious fanatics trying to convince others that its value trumps everything else. I would suggest going back to the starting point and, if you want to invent a better system, make a case for these types of experience having a value in the first place. Most religions have never tried to do this. They just make declarations like Maharishi did, along the lines of "The purpose of life is to achieve these experiences of unboundedness," which then become dogma and are repeated and believed by successive generations of believers. But he never said WHY these experiences were supposedly worth achieving. Start now...what do YOU see as the VALUE of these "experiences of unboundedness" you speak of? If you can't establish that they *have* a value, then why do we need a system of *any* kind to achieve them? Systems already exist, but they are inefficient and quirky, and at best we just stumble into them. If the value to the individual is great enough, they will find a way. What was of value to me though, might not be of value to another. I have found these experiences valuable, but it has also been very interesting how they have ultimately played out for me. Sam Harris is also promoting those experiences in his new book Waking Up, a Guide to Spirituality without Religion. These experiences can be fantastic, one can get attached to having them but as to how they can be interpreted is another question. What you are told in a particular tradition might not be a particularly good way to describe them if they tend to reinforce an impacted belief system. My view, at the moment, is the nervous system is relieving itself of something, but it is difficult to tell just what that something is. I would say the interesting spiritual experiences are just artefacts of the system normalising itself, so they are not really of real import. If one is seeking heaven and trying to avoid hell, one is missing the point of the search, for the point is to discover the commonality of both, and avoid being sucked either way. For me as time went on such experiences tended to damp out, everything kind of flattened out, until one day on a walk there was this shift in which the world, as it always had been, was identical with what I had been seeking. It was a very low key experience, but seeking behaviour simply stopped in its tracks and never came back. Because not
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Are Aliens too Distant for Contact?
This is what Zen masters call 'selling water by the river'. We end up embroiled in a spiritual path because we think it will eliminate our dissatisfaction with life, but the dissatisfaction comes from the way we construe life to be. Life can indeed be horrible, and there are certain things that require courage and fortitude to get through. All that 'enlightenment' brings is the realisation that life is exactly the way it is and no other way, that it was always this way, before and during ones sojourn on 'the path', and that no other way is possible henceforth, and this eliminates seeking behaviour and a particular sort of non-object-oriented fulfilment results because the mind is not spinning its wheels over nonsense. Then you get to live the rest of your life without those pernicious ideas you acquired before and during your spiritual quest. There is still plenty to do or not do, depending on your inclination. To quote the Vedantist James Swartz: 'If you can see that the question of freedom is due to a lack understanding, you will be open to a means of self knowledge. A means of self knowledge does not actually give you self knowledge, because everyone actually does know who they are... Unfortunately, there is usually a lack of clarity about the nature of the self, which impedes the full appreciation of it. This lack of clarity manifests as ill considered beliefs and opinions, particularly the belief that the self is limited. If you expose your mind to a ... means of self knowledge, it will patiently strip away these beliefs and clarity will return. When the last vestige of ignorance is removed, you will realize that you knew who you were all along. You will find it amusing that you went through so much seeking to find out what you already knew You are not getting something you do not have; you simply realize that what you sought so frantically you had all along. Enlightenment should be cause for embarrassment, not jubilation.' > The above paragraph assumes that the 'means of self knowledge' will actually work. Sometimes it seems otherwise, especially when one is around spiritual types. It seems to me that 'masters' tend not to hang out together. Fraudulent masters perhaps do not want their con exposed, and real masters, who know what the real con is, really do not have anything to talk about with each other, because there is nothing at the end of the rainbow in this business. You end up where you started, with a net loss. From: "TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" To: "FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com" Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2014 9:28 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Are Aliens too Distant for Contact? From: salyavin808 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Sometimes I think that Maharishi's "greatest accomplishment" should be listed as having taken so many at-one-time-fairly-intelligent people and, over time, turned them into weak-minded, gullible idiots like jr_esq, Share, srijau, Lawson, and others we see from time to time here on FFL. These people will believe *anything* if 1) they're told that Maharishi or some other Seller Of Woo Woo believed in it, and 2) it makes them feel more self-important and 'special' for believing it. The stuff they believe doesn't need to be reasonable, it doesn't need to follow the laws of physics or chemistry, and it doesn't depend on any kind of evidence. In fact, when presented with evidence that proves their belief to be nonsense, they believe even more strongly. Truly an accomplishment... Yes indeed, something to be proud of. The sad thing is that he (Maharishi) *would* actually be proud of it. He'd think of it as the triumph of faith. He'd smile and tell the story of Trotakacharya again. :-) I first came across it when attending a "coherence" day at the local academy (where I later lived) we were in the garden on a starry night and looking around the night sky and I was pointing out various things of interest like which planets were which and how far the nearest galaxy is when this purusha guy turned to me and said "And just think it's all consciousness". What's troubling is it was said with an intimation that it was an improvement or a superior explanation to "just" thinking that the universe is made of energy and stuff. It worries me because scientific and religious explanations don't mix very well but the quantum crowd think they've found a way of fitting the one into the other, or at least blinding people with enough abstract concepts so they think the two things belong together. It does annoy me too because people, like John, seem genuinely interested in physics and the sort of things it explains really well and the amazing discoveries and concepts of cosmology. But with this training in vedic beliefs he gets from the TMO he doesn't have a way of grading the knowledge for quality. Exactly. The *only* measure o
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Yes, Barry, there is no need to believe in God
I don't know what Barry does when he is alone, but he is living with others according to his own account, so how much aloneness he experiences seems a bit difficult to determine from across the pond; how much he drinks is also difficult to determine. He posted a photo of a glass of red wine, shot in a garden once, in the evening, next to his laptop. Kind of hard to avoid that if you live in France for a while. I don't feel hurt or bitter, and I cannot tell if Barry has such emotions, for as a writer, he assumes various points of view, not necessarily what he is himself experiencing, so I am always curious how you determine these characterisations. He tried TM, and followed Lenz for a while. I suspect he learned something from those experiences. For myself, I did try TM; it worked quite well for some four decades plus though it seems a little frayed now; mindfulness works better now, which it did not in the beginning, but I learned mindfulness first, a long time ago. Not-doing now is a breeze. I tend not to follow spiritual teachers; I mine them for the information I desire. Spiritual teachers are a quirky lot. As just about everyone seems to have some screws loose before they get into spiritual concerns, I always wonder how much of that remains once they have been immersed in the spiritual quest for a time, and that goes for the 'masters' too. As we are part of that group that are, or were seekers, I suspect none of us are free of some individual quirks that might annoy others. A certain kind of luck is required because until a certain point, you cannot tell if a spiritual teacher is just screwing you over or giving you truly good advice, so going down blind alleys is always a potential result. I am pretty sure Barry thinks you are self-deluded about your alleged enlightenment, probably on the basis you promote it over much, but also he does not seem to consider what is generally called enlightenment here on FFL significant compared to other possible experiences. That is not my view, but then I have never met anyone who does have my view, other people think different things. Curious isn't that? For my part, based on what you have said, I think you had some sort of experience, epiphany, or awakening, but your descriptions of the result leave me in doubt because they seem to lack certain details, and you did not seem to grasp concepts found in Vedanta at all, even though this is way of looking at enlightenment is directly involved with Shankara, and Maharishi certainly seemed aware of it, though he did not seem to talk about it extensively. The concepts are not 'the truth' of course but you should be able to manipulate and explain the principles. I suppose I find your statements lack a certain precision, because I like precision, and that does not seem to be your way of expressing yourself. You tend, from my point of view, to block things out in broad strokes. I sometimes drink beer and watch TV alone, but usually I drink tea or coffee or a soda, and usually I watch TV with someone else unless the content strains their sensibilities, as quite a few meditators seem to have difficulty with certain kinds of images, either by inclination, or by having been programmed by others to avoid such because it is not 'evolutionary'. From: "fleetwood_macnche...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 7, 2014 6:06 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Yes, Barry, there is no need to believe in God In all honesty, you have never presented a very high bar for comparison, Barry. I mean, come on, drinking beer and watching TV, alone? Punctuated by regular screeds on how screwed up the rest of us are. Hardly what I would call a raging success, on your part, after following spiritual teachers for decades. No wonder you sound hurt, and bitter. Try TM. It works. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : From: "anartaxius@... [FairfieldLife]" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 7, 2014 5:00 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Yes, Barry, there is no need to believe in God --In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Belief is a thought, that moves us through the gap, from one experience of a subject, to another. For example, we believe the earth is round. This belief remains in place, and helps our world make sense, though there are few times, when we actually observe the curvature of our planet. So it is, with a strong belief in God. Often it becomes the belief in God, that is pursued, instead of a close, immediate, ongoing relationship with Him and Her. I cannot honestly say that I believe in God, yet He and She make their presence known to me, moment to moment, and the relationship is always vital and alive. I did not think up God on my own, just as I would not know how to write, or speak, or drive a car, or try to treat people well. It was taught, thi
Re: [FairfieldLife] Some of the embarrassing things believers pray to their God FOR
RELIGION, n. A daughter of Hope and Fear, explaining to Ignorance the nature of the Unknowable. PRAY, v. To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy. —Ambrose Bierce (1906) From: "TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" To: "FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com" Sent: Tuesday, October 7, 2014 11:56 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Some of the embarrassing things believers pray to their God FOR If this survey is anywhere near accurate, it looks to me as if believers (or American believers, anyway) are a bunch of hypocrites and slackers and vengeful psychopaths. At the very least, they're more honest with a telephone pollster than they are with their supposedly omniscient God. This is how many religious people are willing to admit to a pollster that they actively mislead God This is how many religious people are willing to admit t... A new poll has some surprising findings about Americans who say they pray regularly. View on www.motherjones.com Preview by Yahoo
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Welcome back Pluto!
The red giant start Alpha Orionis (Betelgeuse) in the constellation of Orion fits within a 10x10 pixel area in the Hubble telescope. Betelgeuse has a diameter that is approximately 1,000 times that of Earth's Sun. it is 643±146 light-years distant from us. Most stars would appear much smaller than Pluto, but this one is not one of them. From that distance the Sun would be about 1/100th pixel wide, so most stars would not show an appreciable disk in Hubble. Pluto is now called a dwarf planet and is part of the Kuiper belt; approximately a thousand objects are known in the Kuiper belt, of which Pluto is the best known and largest. The Kuiper belt extends from the orbit of Neptune to about 3 billion kilometres further out. From: blue_bungalow2 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, October 6, 2014 1:49 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Welcome back Pluto! I don't understand this. If pluto is just 3 pixels wide on Hubble, how much pixels distant stars would have? They should have a new category called plutoids. --- wrote : Even the photo from Hubble is not a straight photograph, it is a composite of many exposures over various times assembled by a computer program making a map of colour and brightness variations on the surface which was then mapped onto a sphere. The diameter of Pluto is so small seen from Earth that a single images shows basically no detail at all. Pluto does have a rotation period and the scientists managed to use that as an aid in reconstruction its surface features. Pluto is less than 3 pixels wide in the Hubble telescope. This is just enough information to tell there is some brightness variation on the surface. So a direct picture of Pluto would be a grid just 3x3 pixels wide, nine potential points of difference. Pluto has five moons, Charon, Nix, Hydra, P4 and P5 as they are currently named. (You have to watch out for P5, it hasvery important astrological significance.) --- wrote : Hah, I realised that photo was a mock up two seconds after posting the link. Next time I watch the video first! But it's good that we have the mystery of a new planet to look forward to, it's been a long time since there was a discovery we could wonder over. I remember how the world stopped in its tracks when the Voyager pictures of Jupiter were published. It's good when something draws our attention away into space like that, gives a much needed sense of perspective. Maybe Pluto won't be so exciting but it will still be a glimpse into the universe we haven't had before. The last bit of science to get excited about was a hard task for everyone, the Higgs Boson was entirely conceptual to us average Joe's, the most amazing thing was the lengths they went to to find it at all! --- wrote : New Horizons just crossed the orbit of Neptune. It then will go into hibernation for 99 days. The photo is a painting or a digital painting, an artist's rendition of what they think it will be like. Right now Neptune is imaged as just a few pixels, Pluto is just a single pixel. It's still 284 days away from closest approach. The colour of Pluto and some of its surface variations have been photographed by Hubble but the image is very blurry to say the most even with extensive computer processing. We have no idea yet what its surface features are like in any detail. Here is the Hubble image, currently the best we have until New Horizons passes Pluto about the middle of next year: http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/files/2010/02/image.jpg View on scienceblogs.com Preview by Yahoo This Hubble image of Pluto is technically equivalent to photographing an air gun BB from a distance of 9.4km, or an American quarter dollar coin from 51km. New Horizons will have to get pretty close to Pluto before it can image it better than this Hubble image. From: salyavin808 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Jyotish only uses the visible planets not the outer ones. I guess they'd have to, not knowing about the others. It's tropical astrology that wants not only to use Pluto but asteroids as well. That makes even less sense, nobody knows exactly what is out there so if you think a horoscope makes sense and then someone discovers something else you can't have been right in the first place. But I guess the ice people of Plutoria must want a vote on this. ;-) It must be up to our solar system brothers. Looks like we'll be doing a flyby real soon. That cool photo was taken by NASA's New Horizons probe, which is well on it's way. Travelling at one million miles a day it still has 8 months before closest approach! I look forward to that muchly: NASA'-s New Horizons Spacecraft Near Pluto | Alternative NASA'-s New Horizons Spacecraft Near Pluto | Alt... One of the fastest spacecraft ever built, NASA´s New Horizons, is hurtling through the void at nearly one
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Research on Cosmic Consciousness... more detail
Cosmic consciousness (à la Maharishi) is not that complicated. It is an optimised duality. One experiences oneself as silent awareness, and everything else is walled off from the silence. Kinda feels like being underwater looking up at the world through the surface of the water. Other than than that sense of separation, nothing is different from waking. Ego is intact, but it's no longer you, but it's still a son-of-a-bastard and the mind is still essentially in a state of delusion. As it seems like a silent witness to activity, it is silent in that it can do nothing else. That split personality of experience fortunately eventually goes away and the two sides of the equation eventually shake hands and merge and cosmic consciousness is no more, being replaced with something much harder to communicate because when the two sides of the dualistic experience come together, there is no contrast between them, no way to distinguish them one from the other, except as an intellectual fiction. If you experience deep silence in meditation, and especially if you go on retreats and get some sustained silence, you can kind of imagine what cosmic consciousness is like, but you cannot imagine what full unity is like on this basis because the absence of separation leaves no way for anything to witness what it is. It is a whole without a second. You can have it, but you cannot actually describe it in any really meaningful way. But all these states are waking states and awareness is really always the same in all of them; it is just our understanding is dumbed down until a clear realisation of what the situation is. Then the 'highest' of the waking states is seen to be identical with the 'lowest', and the difference was just our imagination. From: "fleetwood_macnche...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, October 3, 2014 3:05 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Research on Cosmic Consciousness... more detail Just as it says in the Gita, about pure consciousness being unable to be influenced or destroyed, yes, the witness of pure awareness, continues, through any permutation of awareness the mind is in - sleep, dreaming, intoxicated, awake. These states of awareness are due to the gross functioning of the body, in response to its needs. Barry, who seems perpetually confused, equates waking state with Cosmic Consciousness, and is dead wrong, as usual. Just as love unites, and creates perfection, simply by its nature, so does Cosmic Consciousness, uniting everything within the universal awareness. Trying to sense CC, or imagine what it is like, as Barry has done, will never lead to knowledge or understanding of that state of Cosmic Consciousness. Living it is the only way to know what is going on, and be able to explain it clearly. Otherwise, it is the imposition of imagination, on waking state consciousness, and that just leads to delusion, as should be obvious by the strange assumptions and speculations being made. Thinking you know something doesn't make it so.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Saying Bye Bye to Haters and Hate Speech on FFL
As meditators of the TM persuasion are, at least in their minds, marshalling the support of all the laws of nature, persecution should not be much more than batting away slightly annoying gnats. However real persecution requires a bit more machinery than a single individual can really bring to bear on a forum. I meditate, and yet I am still capable of dumb and stupid things (even though it's exactly what is required in the larger scheme of things), and meditators often display, with their mouths, a higher sense of purpose than they can actually muster in fact. We are all ordinary people, attempting to ameliorate some persistent delusions. At least that is what I hope. And hope is one of those persistent delusions, anticipating that what one wants to happen in the wider theatre of life is in fact what will actually happen — but what usually happens is always a bit off from that when we are lucky. To call someone a hater means that somewhere in the the mind one is becoming a reflection of that same concept, that one is reacting as if one is a mirror of what one wants to eliminate, whereas what one needs to be is an empty portal through which hate can pass without leaving a mark or a reflection. That does not mean that some kind of action against an individual or a group cannot be initiated, for sometimes to avoid being destroyed, one must do likewise and destroy, but how you will pay for that as internal strife in the mind or not depends on how much you can be that empty portal. A victim mentality does not get one a free pass in life, it just means you get stepped on and that you somehow think you are privileged in making a complaint. From: "dhamiltony...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, October 4, 2014 2:16 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Saying Bye Bye to Haters and Hate Speech on FFL No get off it, not just Jews but meditators too are victims of hate persecution here too. I was feeling to turn FFL over to the Southern Poverty Law Center over the hate-speech which meditators are experiencing from a few people posting here.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Welcome back Pluto!
New Horizons just crossed the orbit of Neptune. It then will go into hibernation for 99 days. The photo is a painting or a digital painting, an artist's rendition of what they think it will be like. Right now Neptune is imaged as just a few pixels, Pluto is just a single pixel. It's still 284 days away from closest approach. The colour of Pluto and some of its surface variations have been photographed by Hubble but the image is very blurry to say the most even with extensive computer processing. We have no idea yet what its surface features are like in any detail. Here is the Hubble image, currently the best we have until New Horizons passes Pluto about the middle of next year: http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/files/2010/02/image.jpg View on scienceblogs.com Preview by Yahoo This Hubble image of Pluto is technically equivalent to photographing an air gun BB from a distance of 9.4km, or an American quarter dollar coin from 51km. New Horizons will have to get pretty close to Pluto before it can image it better than this Hubble image. From: salyavin808 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 2, 2014 5:31 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Welcome back Pluto! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Jyotish only uses the visible planets not the outer ones. I guess they'd have to, not knowing about the others. It's tropical astrology that wants not only to use Pluto but asteroids as well. That makes even less sense, nobody knows exactly what is out there so if you think a horoscope makes sense and then someone discovers something else you can't have been right in the first place. But I guess the ice people of Plutoria must want a vote on this. ;-) It must be up to our solar system brothers. Looks like we'll be doing a flyby real soon. That cool photo was taken by NASA's New Horizons probe, which is well on it's way. Travelling at one million miles a day it still has 8 months before closest approach! I look forward to that muchly: NASA'-s New Horizons Spacecraft Near Pluto | Alternative NASA'-s New Horizons Spacecraft Near Pluto | Alt... One of the fastest spacecraft ever built, NASA´s New Horizons, is hurtling through the void at nearly one million miles per day. Launched in 2006, it has been in fl... View on beforeitsnews.com Preview by Yahoo On 10/02/2014 07:33 AM, salyavin808 wrote: > >Must be a frustrating time to be an astrologer, they just get used to pretending they have some sort of psychological and predictive use for poor old Pluto - after all those centuries not knowing about it - when the astronomical world decide it was never a planet at all! > > >But now it's back so we can start taking note of the effects it's having on us again. > > >Is Pluto about to be reinstated as a planet? > > >
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: My take on "Waking Up" by Sam Harris
The discussion is the conclusion, the typical end of any scientific paper. If this section is missing, what was the point of the paper? This part of the paper tells the reader what the researcher considers the conclusion drawn from the results of the study, often suggesting further lines of research etc. The words 'cosmic consciousness' nor its abbreviation 'CC' does not appear in this summing up of the research, though these terms appear appears prominently earlier in the paper; the abbreviation CC does not appear in the paper. That is rather curious. For the reader not familiar with this terminology, the connexion might not be drawn. I have had awareness during sleep as the result of medications (a long time ago), awareness during sleep might have other causes, so I think Fred down peddled the result in not making more of it at the end. While awareness during sleep is a common phenomenon in spiritual traditions it is so far not a standard way of describing consciousness in scientific circles. Perhaps Fred is not trying to push the envelope here. But not re-mentioning CC as one of the points of the paper and only mentioning it as an 'integration of transcendental experiences' kind of dilutes the effect of states of consciousness he seems to be promoting in the paper. I do not consider any of the states of consciousness as states of consciousness. Consciousness is mysterious and it is integral, always the same, Fred is describing states of the mind, which seem to be the results of the functioning of the brain. Consciousness, while we all know it is there, has no scientific definition, and you cannot define states of something which is undefined. Consciousness is the one undefined and undefinable value of human experience, and I think it will remain outside the purview of research. But we will find out a lot about the brain and its functioning. What Fred is researching is the contents of consciousness, the variable aspects of experience. If consciousness is absolute, it cannot have variable states. The nature of absolute does not really come into experience clearly until BC; until then you have 'reflections' of various states of mind in consciousness. And as I said, Fred probably has his hands tied, since at least while at MUM under the eye of the TMO, he cannot come to too many conclusions that contradict movement philosophy. All the research you cite is a prequel to CC, mostly a foretelling of CC, hinting at CC, so it does not have much relevance to enlightenment, as even UC is unfinished business in the enlightenment realm. And once that business is over, everything is back where you started. Much Ado about Nothing. There have been people who have gone from WC to BC in a flash, so all the intermediate stuff is technically not necessary because enlightenment does not reveal anything that was not already present in WC, although in practice one seems to need to 'do stuff' to come to realisation. All that that happens is certain mistaken thoughts we have about life, go away, finally. And then life goes on, as it always had. From: "lengli...@cox.net [FairfieldLife]" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 1, 2014 9:49 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: My take on "Waking Up" by Sam Harris "He did not even mention CC in his conclusion (above) either." Er, talk about selective quoting. There's no conclusion section, but the discussion section, which you only partially quote, actually starts out talking about the integration of transcendental experiences with waking, dreaming and sleeping (CC). To suggest that he doesn't mention it when its the first line of the first paragraph, is, well, overtly deceptive: Discussion Brain patterns that defined transcendental experiences during TM practice and the integration of transcendental experiences with waking, dreaming, and sleeping were mainly found in frontal brain areas. This suggests that frontal circuits may play a critical role in transcendental experiences and the growth of higher states of consciousness. These states could be called higher states in that (1) the subject/object relationship is different in these states compared to waking, sleeping, and dreaming; (2) the sense of self is more expanded in these states; and (3) the physiological patterns are distinct from those during waking, dreaming, and sleeping. The development of higher states may be an extension of the developmental trajectory that began as a toddler and continued into adulthood, supporting the emergence of adult abstract reasoning. Brain development begins in posterior sensory areas, which myelinate by age four. Posterior areas process sensory experiences and create the concrete present. Activity in posterior areas are associated with the first two stages of cognitive development described by Piaget—the sensorimotor and preoperational stages.[53] The corpus callosum, w
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: King Tony's Pedigree
That book was a big help to me, as it contained advice that no TM teacher I knew seemed to have a clue about. From: danfriedman2002 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 1, 2014 4:16 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: King Tony's Pedigree My fav is "The End of Your World", a book recommendation that I got at Batgap (returned the favor by using Batgap's commission link to Amazon).
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: King Tony's Pedigree
I have reproduced some paragraphs below that describe the relationship of a student to the teacher and a spiritual teaching from one of the books of Zen-trained Adyashanti. This seems somewhat different than what is expected in the TMO. 'There is no such thing as riding the coattails of an enlightened being to enlightenment itself. A failure to understand this can lead (as so many have been led) to cultish fanaticism, fundamentalism, magical thinking, disappointment, disillusionment, and/or spiritual infancy. While it is understandable that many people project their unresolved parental issues, relationship issues, authority issues, sexuality issues, as well as God issues onto their spiritual teacher (and are sometimes encouraged to do so by unscrupulous spiritual teachers), it is essential to understand that a spiritual teacher's role is to be a good and wise spiritual guide as well as an embodiment of the truth that he or she points toward.' > > >'While there may be deep respect, love, and even devotion to one's spiritual >teacher, it is important not to abdicate all of your authority over to your >spiritual teacher or project all divinity exclusively onto them. Your life >belongs in your hands, not someone else's. Take responsibility for it. There >is a fine line between being truly open to the guidance of a spiritual teacher >and regressing into a childish relationship where you abdicate your adulthood >and project all wisdom and divinity onto the teacher. Each person needs to >find a mature balance, being truly and deeply open to their spiritual guide >without abdicating all of their authority.' > > >'The same can be applied to a spiritual teaching. A spiritual teaching is a >finger pointing toward reality; it is not reality itself. To be in a true and >mature relationship with a spiritual teaching requires you to apply it, not >simply believe in it. Belief leads to various forms of fundamentalism and >shuts down the curiosity and inquiry that are essential to open the way for >awakening and what lies beyond awakening. A good spiritual teaching is >something that you work with and apply. In doing so, it works on you (often in >a hidden way) and helps reveal to you the truth (and falseness) that lies >within you.' > > >'What is it to not abdicate your own authority and yet not claim a false or >self-centred authority that will lead you into delusion? I am afraid that I >cannot tell you. You see, no one can tell you how not to deceive yourself. If >in the deepest place within you, you want and desire truth above all else, >even though you go astray in a thousand different ways, you will find yourself >somehow, again and again, being brought back to what is true. And if you do >not want and desire truth above all else, well, you already know what that >leads to.' From: "TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" To: "FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com" Sent: Wednesday, October 1, 2014 7:41 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: King Tony's Pedigree Isn't it fascinating the crap that people believe because the person they consider their spiritual teacher said it? Or even if they've only heard fifth-hand that he *might* have said it? I'm back to that moment I mentioned before jokingly -- being able someday to figure out the neurophysiology of That Moment in which the human brain says to itself, "Well, the stuff this teacher has said to me so far seems to be true, therefore I am going to 'suspend disbelief' forever and believe that *everything* he ever says to me again is true as well." THAT would be an interesting phenomenon to quantify. W.r.t. to telling someone stuff about their "past lives," there is an Absolute Requirement that the person 'suspend disbelief' and believe that the teacher *could* possibly know something about this thing he rationally couldn't possibly know anything about. Besides, when it comes to 'past lives,' everyone *wants to believe* that what they're being told is true, as long as the past personage is cool enough. ( That's why you've got so many Newagers who claim to be Cleopatra and so few claiming to be Cleopatra's manicurist. :-) I remember one time when the Fred Lenz - Rama guy did that to me, and I called him on it. We were on one of our "field trips," this time I think i the Louvre in Paris -- no guided tours or anything, just 100 or so Rama students wandering around the galleries, sometimes running into him, sometimes not. So I found myself in this Egyptian room looking down at a glass exhibit that contained a sarcophagus and a well-preserved body. I was quite taken with the bones of this guy's face, and was standing there looking at it when Rama walked up behind me, looked down, and said, "Yep, that was you, all right." Naturally, I was all ego-d out for a second, but then for some reason I caught myself and turned to him and said, "Your're just fucking with
[FairfieldLife] Re: Astral and Celetial
So, Share how do you determine whether the astral and the celestial actually exist, and then, if they do, how do you determine their vibrational spectrum? How do you determine they have a vibrational spectrum; what is that anyway? —An ignorant bystander. Now there are some who think there is an asstral and a celestial. The uptight ones (the moralists) think they are poles apart, while the others think they go together quite nicely. From: "Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" To: "FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com" Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 3:04 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday Fleetwood, you initially said that the astral and the celestial are the same thing. I don't agree with that. Nor do I agree that they are the "same vibrational spectrum." On Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:58 AM, "fleetwood_macnche...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" wrote: How is what you say, any different, from what I said? The astral and celestial are in the same realm, same vibrational spectrum, like our earthly light covers a spectrum of different colors, though different neighborhoods. Yes, the beings in the celestial neighborhoods are always the good guys. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Fleetwood, I have a different understanding and experience wrt this. What I've heard is that in the celestial realm the beings are benevolent towards humanity; in the astral realm, some are and some are not. e On Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:36 AM, "fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife]" wrote: Just to clarify, Share, the celestial and astral are the same thing - It depends on the consciousness, where a person naturally ends up (later, you go anywhere you want to)- Satvic equals Celestial, and the rest is what people call the astral. It is simply a layer of life, like ours, where vibrational frequencies are higher, and always evident, like the television broadcasts passing through the atmosphere. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Clarity is the key - Since our vision doesn't operate the same way in the astral, we need a lot of light, to go there. The way Maharishi taught the Siddhis, with TM practice preceding the sutras, gives us the protection, to over time, explore any place we desire to go. Separating out the imagination, "traveling" outside the common boundaries of time and space, and dealing with tricksters, are two things to be aware of, should the astral prove appealing. Knowledge, and power, *always* come with an equal share of responsibility. Enjoy your travels! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Steve, my memory is not the best but I thought he once said that he stopped doing that. I've heard several spiritual organizations warn about channeling. Evidently it opens one up to the astral realm wherein there is no guarantee wrt the benevolence of the inhabitants. On Monday, September 29, 2014 9:34 PM, "steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife]" wrote: He is a "Channel", Share. The funny part, is that he thinks he's moved on from it. Sort of a blind spot I'd say. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Michael, you haven't even been in Fairfield in what, twenty years! Much less been around any TMO leaders. In such a situation, I think it's wrong to attribute such negative motivations to people. On Monday, September 29, 2014 10:55 AM, "Michael Jackson mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife]" wrote: Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. Agreed - yet the TMO propagate TM to keeps its leaders in gold crowns and Mercedes. In short, they do it for money and ego, they like being the rajas they claim to be. From: "fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife]" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 11:46 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday Hi Ann, Your exchange with Dan is interesting - Perhaps the hierarchy thing is easier to understand, from business experience, where communications have more, or less, restrictions, placed on them, intentionally. Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. No doubt there is a lot of executive communication that occurs privately, and necessarily so. Complete transparency would not work, any more than it would for General Motors. I am not advocating complete secrecy, either, but a middle ground is there, somewhere. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote
[FairfieldLife] Privacy
In this electronic age, if someone wants something to be private, then they have to be the only one who knows that something. Share and beware.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Hawking: 'There is no God'
Its nice speculation. Let's wait. But the scientific discussion of this subject probably will not reference the concept of god. From: "jr_...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 12:44 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Hawking: 'There is no God' Xeno, IMO, consciousness is the basis of the universe which created space and time. Space and time did emerge out of the chaos of the early universe. However, there are some young scientists in the US and Canada who believe that they can prove what happened before the universe was created. Michio Kaku believes that this can be done by analyzing the WMAP data and from other instruments that are now measuring the energy output of the early universe. We'll just have to wait and see what the results are of this scientific study. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : According to the current theories, time and space did not exist before the universe. Space-time simply emerged. Therefore asking what happened before makes no sense, because there was no time. And because space did not exist, there was nowhere for what could not have happened before, to be. But beyond that we have no idea. From: "jr_esq@... [FairfieldLife]" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 4:41 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Hawking: 'There is no God' Xeno, As mentioned earlier, how did space and time begin in this universe? Is it an emergent property too of the random fluctuation of the quantum? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Mathematicians, Physicists, Computer Scientists, and Evolutionists have shown experimentally that high levels of complexity can arise out of very simple systems so that the appearance of intelligence can be an emergent property of simple starting parameters. So it does not appear to be necessary to hypothesise any intelligence to get the ball rolling. From: salyavin808 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2014 7:13 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Hawking: 'There is no God' ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Salyavin, I think that you will agree Hawking made another blunder by making another unsupported and unscientific assertion. Just recently, he lost a bet about the discovery of the Higgs Boson. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that he'll pay on his wager. What have you got against Hawking? A lot of people didn't think the Higgs would be found, even Werner Heisenberg, but there you are. That's how science works, you have an idea and you test it. Some are right, most are wrong. It's hardly a "blunder", besides we don't know when or why Hawking made his bet, maybe he forgot to cancel it due to having other things on his mind! He paid up though. $100. You say that consciousness is a phenomenon of emergence. IMO, that's not correct. My proof is space and time itself which is an essential factor for the existence of this universe. How can a random quantum fluctuation conceive of length, width, and height to create space and cognize the flow of events to create time? OK, I suspect need to familiarise yourself with the concepts a bit more. I don't know what you mean by "cognize". The word means "become aware of" a quantum event isn't "aware" of anything. Do you mean that it had to somehow know what it was doing in order to do it? Laws unfold on their own, there is no plan for them to work to. They are simply our descriptions of what always happens under the same circumstances. Given the starting point of the universe we ended up with the laws we've got. It could have been different, if there was slightly less matter compared to anti-matter after the big bang we would have less atoms in the universe which would affect the energy and total mass before inflation when the subatomic particles that make up everything else came into being. This would make everything work slightly differently, maybe such big stars wouldn't have formed which would mean we wouldn't be here because there would be no heavy elements to make us or our planet with. Victor Stenger wrote a book about how the universe would have been different with different initial settings like this, I haven't read it myself but mention it because a lot of work has been done on this. It isn't absolute of course, some think the universe is very finely tuned and use that as supposed proof of the necessity of a creator, Stenger thinks that it doesn't need to be as finely tuned as all that. Besides, the universe may have evolved, if one came into being that couldn't produce the material necessary for complex life then it would end one day and another would come along once the vacuum state had settled down. There may have been millions of cyclical universes, we will ne
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
Actually Richard, it was only I who did that. And I redid it a few days ago to put most of the most recent posters each in their own folder. This makes it easier to skip or read what a particular person is responding to or is posting something new. In the past few hours I gotten 45 FFL emails. Yours were 26.67% of the total. From: "'Richard J. Williams' pundits...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 11:53 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday That would explain why several of the FFL informants spent hours making folders labeled "fluff", "drivel", and "Canada" and creating filters so they don't have to read all the critical discussions posted here in order to promote an "open discussion" - that is above PR image spinning.Go figure.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Iowa Suicides
Iowa Suicide Iowa Suicide Discover Suicide rankings for all Iowa counties and all magor causes of death. View on www.worldlifeexpect... Preview by Yahoo From: "Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" To: "FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com" Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 7:10 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Was This Already Posted? This is the first time I have seen this article - thanks to you who posted it. It is about time this is dealt with forthrightly. It is worth the time to read the comment - here is one that is especially instructive. So much for the Marshy Effect: "Great article. I got curious about the math, so I used the statistics given in this article and from what I calculated, the Fairfield suicide rate is MORE THAN TWICE AS HIGH as the state suicide rate (and as stated in the article, the state suicide rate is already higher than the national average). The math is laid out below. >From this article: “Since mid-2008, 20 people have died by suicide in the >greater Fairfield area…Statewide, suicide rates are on the rise, going from 11.7 to 14.4 cases per 100,000 people from 2010 to 2013, surpassing the national average, according to the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention.” Fairfield suicide rate: 20 cases / 10,000 people (approximate Fairfield population) / 6 years (2008-2014) = .0333% per year state suicide rate: 14.4 cases / 100,000 people / 1 year = .0144% per year (using the 2013 state suicide rate here–the average suicide rate from 2008 to 2014 would be lower, which means the Fairfield rate is actually even higher compared to the state rate than shown here) comparison: Fairfield rate / state rate = .0144% / .0333% = 2.3125 Which would mean that the Fairfield suicide rate is 2.3125 times as high as the state suicide rate." From: "curtisdeltabl...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 12:11 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Was This Already Posted? M: That was an excellent article. It nails one of the most destructive aspects of what I call the prison of specialness in the movement. Sidha means perfection. Ideal society, perfect health, invincibility, immortality, the list of unwarranted superlatives goes on and on. All in the cause of pretending we are not what we are, flawed humans with a limited understanding of what is going on in life, doing the best we can. It is a propensity for "front'n extra large" that would make the most bombastic rapper blush! Thanks for posting it. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Sent to me by a friend in FF. Suicide in Fairfield: Iowa town struggles with mental health awareness | Little Village Suicide in Fairfield: Iowa town struggles with mental he... Available online and published twice a month, Little Village covers Iowa City events, news, music, film and more -- all from a refreshing, local perspective. View on littlevillagemag.comPreview by Yahoo
[FairfieldLife] First Genetically Modified Babies
The World’s First Genetically Modified Babies Will Graduate High School This Year | TechCrunch The World’s First Genetically Modified Babies Will Gradu... Remember the sci-fi thriller GATTACA? For those who never saw the film and/or eschewed all pop culture in the late 90's for some reason, it was a popular.. View on techcrunch.com Preview by Yahoo
