[FairfieldLife] Re: Real Advaita, Pseudo-Advaita, and Ramesh Balsekar at Kovalam 2004
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Apr 19, 2005, at 4:33 PM, lupidus108 wrote: But to those who experience the ever expanding universe as a neverending, pulsating body of bliss on a daily basis, as a result of practices given by MMY, what good is a book ? Well the practices given by MMY came from a book--maybe they could transcend the pleasure state. Bliss kittens make nice pets, but that's about it. Maybe a good read would ground them enough to snap out of it? The pleasure from samadhi is an obstacle to samadhi. They have to be eaten by That to transcend this addiction to bliss. Bliss is stupid. Guess you never experienced Bliss. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do you Yahoo!? Plan great trips with Yahoo! Travel: Now over 17,000 guides! http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Real Advaita, Pseudo-Advaita, and Ramesh Balsekar at Kovalam 2004
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Apr 19, 2005, at 4:33 PM, lupidus108 wrote: But to those who experience the ever expanding universe as a neverending, pulsating body of bliss on a daily basis, as a result of practices given by MMY, what good is a book ? Well the practices given by MMY came from a book--maybe they could transcend the pleasure state. Bliss kittens make nice pets, but that's about it. Maybe a good read would ground them enough to snap out of it? The pleasure from samadhi is an obstacle to samadhi. They have to be eaten by That to transcend this addiction to bliss. Bliss is stupid. Thats about the most stupid comment I've read. I suppose you never experienced it. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do you Yahoo!? Plan great trips with Yahoo! Travel: Now over 17,000 guides! http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Real Advaita, Pseudo-Advaita, and Ramesh Balsekar at Kovalam 2004
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, lupidus108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Apr 19, 2005, at 4:33 PM, lupidus108 wrote: But to those who experience the ever expanding universe as a neverending, pulsating body of bliss on a daily basis, as a result of practices given by MMY, what good is a book ? Well the practices given by MMY came from a book--maybe they could transcend the pleasure state. Bliss kittens make nice pets, but that's about it. Maybe a good read would ground them enough to snap out of it? The pleasure from samadhi is an obstacle to samadhi. They have to be eaten by That to transcend this addiction to bliss. Bliss is stupid. Thats about the most stupid comment I've read. I suppose you never experienced it. Hey Peter, was it off-world-beings that unloaded numerous insults on you a couple of months ago? Anyway, this phrase; the most stupid comment I've read is another beauty but it still falls behind the one leveled at you by I think, OWB, the classic of classics: You are so stupid. That's got to be one of my favorites of all times. Rick Carlstrom To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Real Advaita, Pseudo-Advaita, and Ramesh Balsekar at Kovalam 2004
--- Rick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, lupidus108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Apr 19, 2005, at 4:33 PM, lupidus108 wrote: But to those who experience the ever expanding universe as a neverending, pulsating body of bliss on a daily basis, as a result of practices given by MMY, what good is a book ? Well the practices given by MMY came from a book--maybe they could transcend the pleasure state. Bliss kittens make nice pets, but that's about it. Maybe a good read would ground them enough to snap out of it? The pleasure from samadhi is an obstacle to samadhi. They have to be eaten by That to transcend this addiction to bliss. Bliss is stupid. Thats about the most stupid comment I've read. I suppose you never experienced it. Hey Peter, was it off-world-beings that unloaded numerous insults on you a couple of months ago? Anyway, this phrase; the most stupid comment I've read is another beauty but it still falls behind the one leveled at you by I think, OWB, the classic of classics: You are so stupid. That's got to be one of my favorites of all times. Rick Carlstrom lubidus108 is cool though. Note he said a stupid comment, not a stupid commentator! And it is, at first glance, a pretty stupid comment without any explanation attached to it. -Peter and Peterer To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Real Advaita, Pseudo-Advaita, and Ramesh Balsekar at Kovalam 2004
On Apr 19, 2005, at 12:51 AM, crukstrom wrote: I think what I am wondering about is why is it so important to get rid of the me, when it seems that the very essence of creation is to make a me. The sense of me-ness or i-ness comes from ahamkara, the i-maker. Ahamkara is shakti, the kundalini shakti herself. Whatever masks she wears are subtle and profound aspects of this same yogic ego. There is something else, shakti's mate, which must grow in relation to the unfoldment of her otherwise you end up attaching to these relative aspect of her (the ego). Many imagine they are enlightened and describe a vast array of subtle experiences, celestial messages, OOBE etc. These are just expansion at the level of the ego. Ego-display. It's only when you expand enough to encompass ALL of it in a non-dual stance that you stop being conditioned by the stress that's causing the shakti-experience to arise in the first places. These things have to arise from a cause. You want to go beyond that cause. If you can, it dissolves immediately. The problem with the TM-Sidhi method is that samyama, once attained, automatically awakens this power-behind-I-ness. It awakens the shakti. Thus you tend to get a lot of egomaniacs spouting from the POV of their shakti experiences--their subtle egos. In traditional methods samyama is not taught on the formulae of pada three first. It's taught so as to quickly cultivate the witness. If this is not done first you end up very possibly enslaving yourself to the subtle ego--all the while declaring your enlightenment from any nearby footstool. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Real Advaita, Pseudo-Advaita, and Ramesh Balsekar at Kovalam 2004
In traditional methods samyama is not taught on the formulae of pada three first. It's taught so as to quickly cultivate the "witness". If this is not done first you end up very possibly enslaving yourself to the subtle ego--all the while declaring your enlightenment from any nearby footstool.Hey guys, I'm back. It's RJ. Look I wanted to change that handle for quite awhile. This new handle suits me much better, and I would like to relate a strange experience. Mainly to you Vaj. Yesterday, I decided to do some asanas and as I was stretching I just sort of spaced out and started thinking about how I, that is, this personality is really Mahakali Herself, and then I just sort of let go on that line, and I said, well then, if I am Mahakali then she could just manifest in form right now in front of me since nothing should stop Mahakali from doing what she wants and if I want, and I am Her then She wants. And so I thought. So I was stretching and moved into this position on my stomach just resting while I was thinking, OK, then Mahakali just manifest then even if the vision kills me. I said, when I open my eyes I will see Mahakali. So I opened my eyes, no vision of Mahakali. But then I noticed what position I was in. I was in exact Vajradakini one legged stance with arms and legs in correct position. This was more profound to me than anything really. Because the desire to know matched the uncontrived position that I had taken. So there for me really is no right or left or black or white, or anything really separate from that immense ignorant faith in presence itself. Is this clear? We in the West are the real exponents of Kali. And She is just getting started. Her vision holds immense promise for future happiness. If one lives with faith. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Real Advaita, Pseudo-Advaita, and Ramesh Balsekar at Kovalam 2004
Nice post; comments interleaved below: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The sense of me-ness or i-ness comes from ahamkara, the i- maker. Ahamkara is shakti, the kundalini shakti herself. Whatever masks she wears are subtle and profound aspects of this same yogic ego. This would appear to describe the whipsawing little snake as she insists upon separation and superiority; she is wrapped around and protecting the egoic-egg or causal-body -- the idea of a separate self. She appears here to be the serpent of space-time, keeping the separate self locked into a 3-D world of division and comparison. There is something else, shakti's mate, which must grow in relation to the unfoldment of her otherwise you end up attaching to these relative aspect of her (the ego). Many imagine they are enlightened and describe a vast array of subtle experiences, celestial messages, OOBE etc. These are just expansion at the level of the ego. Ego- display. Absolutely; any attachment to experience or even to any definition or conception of enlightenment is still subtle bondage to something transitory, wherein the Self has not yet completely understood the fundamental and all-inclusive nature of the Self. On the other hand, it would appear that only the enlightened feel comfortable saying I am enlightened (as well as I am in ignorance) or I am awake (as well as I am asleep) or I am free (as well as I am a slave), for only in enlightenment are all of these things Understood as the same. It's only when you expand enough to encompass ALL of it in a non- dual stance that you stop being conditioned by the stress that's causing the shakti-experience to arise in the first places. These things have to arise from a cause. You want to go beyond that cause. If you can, it dissolves immediately. This appears to be a function of the fundamental comprehension that the Other-I and this I aren't actually separate after all. The problem with the TM-Sidhi method is that samyama, once attained, automatically awakens this power-behind-I-ness. It awakens the shakti. Thus you tend to get a lot of egomaniacs spouting from the POV of their shakti experiences--their subtle egos. And it would seem that one still attached to the idea of Other-I vs. this-I will see everything in that Light until the egoic separate-self egg is broken. In traditional methods samyama is not taught on the formulae of pada three first. It's taught so as to quickly cultivate the witness. If this is not done first you end up very possibly enslaving yourself to the subtle ego--all the while declaring your enlightenment from any nearby footstool. It would appear that regardless of one's path, so long as one believes there actually IS a path, the witness is still mediated through the idea-of-separate-self and hence subtle ego until it isn't. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Real Advaita, Pseudo-Advaita, and Ramesh Balsekar at Kovalam 2004
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Llundrub [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey guys, I'm back. It's RJ. Look I wanted to change that handle for quite awhile. This new handle suits me much better, and I would like to relate a strange experience. Mainly to you Vaj. Yesterday, I decided to do some asanas and as I was stretching I just sort of spaced out and started thinking about how I, that is, this personality is really Mahakali Herself, and then I just sort of let go on that line, and I said, well then, if I am Mahakali then she could just manifest in form right now in front of me since nothing should stop Mahakali from doing what she wants and if I want, and I am Her then She wants. And so I thought. So I was stretching and moved into this position on my stomach just resting while I was thinking, OK, then Mahakali just manifest then even if the vision kills me. I said, when I open my eyes I will see Mahakali. So I opened my eyes, no vision of Mahakali. But then I noticed what position I was in. I was in exact Vajradakini one legged stance with arms and legs in correct position. This was more profound to me than anything really. Because the desire to know matched the uncontrived position that I had taken. So there for me really is no right or left or black or white, or anything really separate from that immense ignorant faith in presence itself. Is this clear? We in the West are the real exponents of Kali. And She is just getting started. Her vision holds immense promise for future happiness. If one lives with faith. Hey, welcome back! This whole thing is really beautiful. I have missed you, RJ -- or do you prefer llundrub? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Real Advaita, Pseudo-Advaita, and Ramesh Balsekar at Kovalam 2004
--- crukstrom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip I think what I am wondering about is why is it so important to get rid of the me... Because you don't exist. The me or ego (a separate, private, psychological sense of self) is a delusion. Pure consciousness is identified or projected into boundaries and phenomenologically becomes those boundaries. Like Pantanjali's metaphor of the clear jewel being placed on top of a colored surface, appears to become the color of the the surface, but it is not the color. The source of your suffering is this strange delusion. -Peter (neither here nor there, nor anywhere, just like you) __ Do you Yahoo!? Plan great trips with Yahoo! Travel: Now over 17,000 guides! http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Real Advaita, Pseudo-Advaita, and Ramesh Balsekar at Kovalam 2004
Hey, welcome back! This whole thing is really beautiful. I have missed you, RJ -- or do you prefer llundrub? ---I much prefer Llundrub To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Real Advaita, Pseudo-Advaita, and Ramesh Balsekar at Kovalam 2004
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Llundrub [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey, welcome back! This whole thing is really beautiful. I have missed you, RJ -- or do you prefer llundrub? ---I much prefer Llundrub Llundrub it is, then. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Real Advaita, Pseudo-Advaita, and Ramesh Balsekar at Kovalam 2004
Thanks Bro - Original Message - From: Rory Goff To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 8:14 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Real Advaita, Pseudo-Advaita, and Ramesh Balsekar at Kovalam 2004 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Llundrub" [EMAIL PROTECTED]... wrote: Hey, welcome back! This whole thing is really beautiful. I have missed you, RJ -- or do you prefer llundrub? ---I much prefer LlundrubLlundrub it is, then.To subscribe, send a message to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/and click 'Join This Group!' To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Real Advaita, Pseudo-Advaita, and Ramesh Balsekar at Kovalam 2004
Hi Rick, Yeah, no kidding! There are two clues about the kind of ego Maharishi is referring to in the quote you shared below: If you examine the sequence in which Maharishi speaks about the ego, notice that it comes first, before vibration and prakriti. He also speaks of it as the ego in its 'own established state'. So he is not referring to the ego as we have commonly understood it, small and dependent on relative merits or demerits in order to sustantiate its existence. Rather he is speaking of an ego which is all encompassing, pre-existing even creation, Established. You are 100,000% right in finding this! Rather than get caught up in the me or no me stuff, your intellect is sure that there is an ego. And there is. The ego that Maharishi speaks of is the universal ego of the creator. Once we identify with that; that becoming our Self, then the 'me' that we knew and identified with previously no longer exists. It is seen for what it was, a mirage. Ergo, there is 'no me'. This is why the distinction is made between a me and a no me. It is to lead the aspirant first to the realization that the me being identified with in ignorance doesn't exist. Then once that is realized, the aspirant realizes that ego or sense of Self must continue to exist, only in a universal, cosmic or God context. Thanks, Jim --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, crukstrom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Rick, I have read (heard) a lot of teachers say this. What I understand when I hear this is it is an attempt by the Enlightened to speak about their experience for the benefit of the ignorant. Like when MMY speaks about the Knowledge being transmitted from one state of consciousness to another, something can be lost, misinterpreted. So of course a me has to convey the knowledge of no me to the ignorant, and is misunderstood. An Enlightened being would not have to make such a point to another Enlightened one. Probably a heck of a lot more confusing in english (vs. sanskrit) to make the 'me' and 'not me' distinction too, though I am hardly a linguist... Jim I think what I am wondering about is why is it so important to get rid of the me, when it seems that the very essence of creation is to make a me. Here's a little bit from Maharishi's commentary on the Gita: The first manifestation of creation is the self-illuminant effulgence of life. This is the field of established intellect, or the individual ego in its own established state. This self- illuminant effulgence of life is called the Veda. The second step in the process of manifestation is the rise of what we call vibration, which brings out the attributes of prakriti, or Nature - the three gunas. This point marks the beginning of the functioning of the ego. Here experience begins in a very subtle form: the trinity of the experiencer, the experienced, and the process of experience comes into existence. In this description of creation the existence of an ego, which seems to be a me of some sort, is apparently pretty fundamental to the whole thing. Rick Carlstrom To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Real Advaita, Pseudo-Advaita, and Ramesh Balsekar at Kovalam 2004
In this world of "awakened" individuals so many seem to think that with just a slight shift in perspective they have seen the trick of bound individual ego revealed and now they are free. Sometimes I suspect that this is really just a first awakening that has more to do with understanding that you are not your personallity than it has to do with complete loss of ego.Rick Carlstrom---Try to not be your personality. Your personality is the entire expanse and range of all relative exerience from hell to heaven, and more besides. Try to not be your personality and then tell me who the ego is. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Real Advaita, Pseudo-Advaita, and Ramesh Balsekar at Kovalam 2004
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You are 100,000% right in finding this! Its good when things are 1000 times more right than ordinary right. Then i am comforted that its really right. But wait, what if I find something that is 10,000 times more right. Does that make the 1000 x right thing 10 times less right? Oh well, its all perfect, its all bliss. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Real Advaita, Pseudo-Advaita, and Ramesh Balsekar at Kovalam 2004
--- akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You are 100,000% right in finding this! Its good when things are 1000 times more right than ordinary right. Then i am comforted that its really right. But wait, what if I find something that is 10,000 times more right. Does that make the 1000 x right thing 10 times less right? Oh well, its all perfect, its all bliss. All dharma violators who cross concepts from one state of awakening to another will be brought out of the ashram and forced to eat a steak (cooked perfectly by RJ in a fine cognac sauce with sauted onions) and have sex with a non-meditator at dawn. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do you Yahoo!? Plan great trips with Yahoo! Travel: Now over 17,000 guides! http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Real Advaita, Pseudo-Advaita, and Ramesh Balsekar at Kovalam 2004
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The sense of me-ness or i-ness comes from ahamkara, the i-maker. Ahamkara is shakti, the kundalini shakti herself. Whatever masks she wears are subtle and profound aspects of this same yogic ego. There is something else, shakti's mate, which must grow in relation to the unfoldment of her otherwise you end up attaching to these relative aspect of her (the ego). Many imagine they are enlightened and describe a vast array of subtle experiences, celestial messages, OOBE etc. These are just expansion at the level of the ego. Ego-display. It's only when you expand enough to encompass ALL of it in a non-dual stance that you stop being conditioned by the stress that's causing the shakti-experience to arise in the first places. These things have to arise from a cause. You want to go beyond that cause. If you can, it dissolves immediately. The problem with the TM-Sidhi method is that samyama, once attained, automatically awakens this power-behind-I-ness. It awakens the shakti. Thus you tend to get a lot of egomaniacs spouting from the POV of their shakti experiences--their subtle egos. In traditional methods samyama is not taught on the formulae of pada three first. It's taught so as to quickly cultivate the witness. If this is not done first you end up very possibly enslaving yourself to the subtle ego--all the while declaring your enlightenment from any nearby footstool. Vaj, This along with your prior comments on darshana (view) as preceeding but not the same as experience is clarifying. its interesting that some proclaim they are in BC and that Brahman is an understanding not an experience. This sounds like a darshana. What is your traditions' and teachers' perspective on this? Could it be possible that one could become absorbed in a darshana of Brahman -- and this enlivens shakti to some degree? And you then get a lot of egomaniacs spouting from the POV of their shakti experiences--their subtle egos? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Real Advaita, Pseudo-Advaita, and Ramesh Balsekar at Kovalam 2004
--- akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You are 100,000% right in finding this! Its good when things are 1000 times more right than ordinary right. Then i am comforted that its really right. But wait, what if I find something that is 10,000 times more right. Does that make the 1000 x right thing 10 times less right? Oh well, its all perfect, its all bliss. All dharma violators who cross concepts from one state of awakening to another will be brought out of the ashram and forced to eat a steak (cooked perfectly by RJ in a fine cognac sauce with sauted onions) and have sex with a non-meditator at dawn. Im not sure Rory likes fine cognac sauce, but lets try it out. String the dharma violators up. By the way, is parody a part of your vocabulary. Or do I need to use sanskrit? I fight parody with parody. Om Tat Sat. -Lord Ram To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do you Yahoo!? Plan great trips with Yahoo! Travel: Now over 17,000 guides! http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Real Advaita, Pseudo-Advaita, and Ramesh Balsekar at Kovalam 2004
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You are 100,000% right in finding this! Its good when things are 1000 times more right than ordinary right. Then i am comforted that its really right. But wait, what if I find something that is 10,000 times more right. Does that make the 1000 x right thing 10 times less right? Oh well, its all perfect, its all bliss. All dharma violators who cross concepts from one state of awakening to another will be brought out of the ashram and forced to eat a steak (cooked perfectly by RJ in a fine cognac sauce with sauted onions) and have sex with a non-meditator at dawn. Allright listen, the sex part will be okay but please, please, plase, don't make me eat a steak! What if I really like it? Ohhh nooo. Rick Carlstrom To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Real Advaita, Pseudo-Advaita, and Ramesh Balsekar at Kovalam 2004
Akasha, You are confusing me. My expression of Rick being 100,000% right was an expression of enthusiasm. Any time I perceive someone moving to a greater understanding I am so happy about it! That's just the way I am. Perhaps there is a corresponding mathematical reality for it too- I don't know. Jim --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You are 100,000% right in finding this! Its good when things are 1000 times more right than ordinary right. Then i am comforted that its really right. But wait, what if I find something that is 10,000 times more right. Does that make the 1000 x right thing 10 times less right? Oh well, its all perfect, its all bliss. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Real Advaita, Pseudo-Advaita, and Ramesh Balsekar at Kovalam 2004
On Apr 19, 2005, at 12:55 PM, akasha_108 wrote: This along with your prior comments on darshana (view) as preceeding but not the same as experience is clarifying. its interesting that some proclaim they are in BC and that Brahman is an understanding not an experience. This sounds like a darshana. What is your traditions' and teachers' perspective on this? Meditation is not; getting used to is. is a way he might describe the Primordial State and non-dual contemplation. Could it be possible that one could become absorbed in a darshana of Brahman -- and this enlivens shakti to some degree? And you then get a lot of egomaniacs spouting from the POV of their shakti experiences--their subtle egos? Doubtful. We were just discussing this on another list and one opinion I have always held is that *IF* MMY really wanted to get people to Cosmic Consciousness and if he really claimed to be representing the Shankaracharya Tradition, he would use the standard texts of the tradition on attainment of CC. These texts are very explicit on how to attain CC. One thing they insist: use Patanjali as part of that path. You know the bizarre thing? They insist you skip the entire siddhis portion, ESPECIALLY the levitation siddhi! They also warn on channelling, other beings, etc. Otherwise it is said you will NEVER obtain CC. Period. Now knowing this you can only conclude that the reason this traditional advice was ignored is because the idea of siddhis and levitation really is attractive to some people and really SELLS. And thousands of people have paid the price. Some with their health, others with their minds, yet others rant and rave on their enlightened status. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Real Advaita, Pseudo-Advaita, and Ramesh Balsekar at Kovalam 2004
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: and have sex with a non-meditator at dawn. And please make it particularly awful -- smart, 25, blonde, and athletic -- so that i might rid myself of this scurge tendency to violate dharma, the eternal Laws of Sutphen, humming, residing eternally in the most subtle aspect of Peter's mind. (Can we keep going till dusk?) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Real Advaita, Pseudo-Advaita, and Ramesh Balsekar at Kovalam 2004
Yes, and if you see the Buddha on the road, kill him, right? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Apr 19, 2005, at 12:55 PM, akasha_108 wrote: This along with your prior comments on darshana (view) as preceeding but not the same as experience is clarifying. its interesting that some proclaim they are in BC and that Brahman is an understanding not an experience. This sounds like a darshana. What is your traditions' and teachers' perspective on this? Meditation is not; getting used to is. is a way he might describe the Primordial State and non-dual contemplation. Could it be possible that one could become absorbed in a darshana of Brahman -- and this enlivens shakti to some degree? And you then get a lot of egomaniacs spouting from the POV of their shakti experiences--their subtle egos? Doubtful. We were just discussing this on another list and one opinion I have always held is that *IF* MMY really wanted to get people to Cosmic Consciousness and if he really claimed to be representing the Shankaracharya Tradition, he would use the standard texts of the tradition on attainment of CC. These texts are very explicit on how to attain CC. One thing they insist: use Patanjali as part of that path. You know the bizarre thing? They insist you skip the entire siddhis portion, ESPECIALLY the levitation siddhi! They also warn on channelling, other beings, etc. Otherwise it is said you will NEVER obtain CC. Period. Now knowing this you can only conclude that the reason this traditional advice was ignored is because the idea of siddhis and levitation really is attractive to some people and really SELLS. And thousands of people have paid the price. Some with their health, others with their minds, yet others rant and rave on their enlightened status. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Real Advaita, Pseudo-Advaita, and Ramesh Balsekar at Kovalam 2004
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Llundrub [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In this world of awakened individuals so many seem to think that with just a slight shift in perspective they have seen the trick of bound individual ego revealed and now they are free. Sometimes I suspect that this is really just a first awakening that has more to do with understanding that you are not your personallity than it has to do with complete loss of ego. Rick Carlstrom ---Try to not be your personality. Your personality is the entire expanse and range of all relative exerience from hell to heaven, and more besides. Try to not be your personality and then tell me who the ego is. I guess the question would be, is there a defference between personality and ego. How much does personality depend on identification with the body or as the body? Is there an I-sense that can exist beyond the body? Rick Carlstrom To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Real Advaita, Pseudo-Advaita, and Ramesh Balsekar at Kovalam 2004
On Apr 19, 2005, at 2:01 PM, Real wrote: My personal experience with the TMSiddhi program in total is that nothing previous to this practice has so clearly cultivated the growth of silence into my daily life. Having said that, I tend to think that the Siddhi practice especially the flying sutra was brought out by MMY more for the effect it would have on the world as a whole rather than how it immediately rescue the practicioner from the world of dharma and suffering. I suspect that the majority of us here have so far to go before we are fully disentangled from our masses of karmic knots that it's better we concentrate on cleaning our house rather than vacating it. In short, for most the TMSiddhi practice or something like it is the most appropriate action for now. That still doesn't answer the question of the tradition. The tradition says one thing, MMY advocates something entirely different. What is advocated is not a sudden path--it is a gradual path. But it definitely does not advocate siddhis. In fact, it goes so far as to say these will prevent CC and BC. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Real Advaita, Pseudo-Advaita, and Ramesh Balsekar at Kovalam 2004
All dharma violators who cross concepts from one stateof awakening to another will be brought out of theashram and forced to eat a steak (cooked perfectly byRJ in a fine cognac sauce with sauted onions) and havesex with a non-meditator at dawn.---Yes, just so, and quite reminds me of me now that you mention it. My wife is a non meditator, and she and I have sex at dawn usually and then often go to Shoney's for hamburgers, yeah at 7 am. and back in the worse days I liked to have a few drinks with my breakfast (not at Shoney's obviously - don't go running out to check the menu), but those days of awakening, well, the worst has passed, I hope. I like to think awake now not awakening. There cannot be Dharma violators amongst aspirants to Dharma, just nondharma/nonpractitioners. The Dharma is an aspiration to right wrongs, clean the impure, and turn the dark to light, by becoming all those things simultaneously. It's the only way to accept responsibility and to therefore practice in actuality. One can only practice on themselves, to think otherwise is to be looking somewhere that doesn't exist. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Real Advaita, Pseudo-Advaita, and Ramesh Balsekar at Kovalam 2004
On Apr 19, 2005, at 2:31 PM, Real wrote: What constitutes the tradition.? The Shankaracharya tradition was what I was referring to. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Real Advaita, Pseudo-Advaita, and Ramesh Balsekar at Kovalam 2004
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Apr 19, 2005, at 2:31 PM, Real wrote: What constitutes the tradition.? The Shankaracharya tradition was what I was referring to. Well, I didn't really mean which tradition, I guess I was just asking what is it that makes any tradition gospel? A tradition promises us something we have yet to really understand, otherwise we would not be studying it. I understand that when one has studied these traditions enough, that you can become fluent in them and notice contradictions between them that ask to be addressed. Your prodigious study of these puts you way out of my league on these matters as I rely mainly on intuition. Rick Carlstrom To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Real Advaita, Pseudo-Advaita, and Ramesh Balsekar at Kovalam 2004
On Apr 19, 2005, at 3:20 PM, Rick wrote: Well, I didn't really mean which tradition, I guess I was just asking what is it that makes any tradition gospel? That it has a continuous worth in actually enlightening people. That's the only tradition that's worthwhile in this context. In that vein the current Shankaracharya of Sringiri has not only has translated these works (on CC) but has written commentaries. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Real Advaita, Pseudo-Advaita, and Ramesh Balsekar at Kovalam 2004
One thing they insist: use Patanjali as part of that path. You know the bizarre thing? They insist you skip the entire siddhis portion, ESPECIALLY the levitation siddhi! They also warn on channelling, other beings, etc. Otherwise it is said you will NEVER obtain CC. Period. May I ask who/what they are to which you refer ? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Real Advaita, Pseudo-Advaita, and Ramesh Balsekar at Kovalam 2004
To what tradition do you refer ? Do you believe something must be correct just because that thinking has been the fashion for the last, say 500 years ? It seems you have lost MMY's main point: the siddhis are a only sideeffects of the growth of consciousness and per ce not interesting. Thats why MMY himself does not show these effects to the public. That still doesn't answer the question of the tradition. The tradition says one thing, MMY advocates something entirely different. What is advocated is not a sudden path--it is a gradual path. But it definitely does not advocate siddhis. In fact, it goes so far as to say these will prevent CC and BC. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Real Advaita, Pseudo-Advaita, and Ramesh Balsekar at Kovalam 2004
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Apr 19, 2005, at 3:20 PM, Rick wrote: Well, I didn't really mean which tradition, I guess I was just asking what is it that makes any tradition gospel? That it has a continuous worth in actually enlightening people. That's the only tradition that's worthwhile in this context. In that vein the current Shankaracharya of Sringiri has not only has translated these works (on CC) but has written commentaries. He has written a book ! How wonderful ! But to those who experience the ever expanding universe as a neverending, pulsating body of bliss on a daily basis, as a result of practices given by MMY, what good is a book ? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Real Advaita, Pseudo-Advaita, and Ramesh Balsekar at Kovalam 2004
On Apr 19, 2005, at 3:48 PM, lupidus108 wrote: May I ask who/what they are to which you refer ? Vidyaranya specifically, one of the Shankaracharyas, but also Patanjali and others. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Real Advaita, Pseudo-Advaita, and Ramesh Balsekar at Kovalam 2004
On Apr 19, 2005, at 4:33 PM, lupidus108 wrote: But to those who experience the ever expanding universe as a neverending, pulsating body of bliss on a daily basis, as a result of practices given by MMY, what good is a book ? Well the practices given by MMY came from a book--maybe they could transcend the pleasure state. Bliss kittens make nice pets, but that's about it. Maybe a good read would ground them enough to snap out of it? The pleasure from samadhi is an obstacle to samadhi. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Real Advaita, Pseudo-Advaita, and Ramesh Balsekar at Kovalam 2004
Vaj,This along with your prior comments on darshana (view) as preceeding but not the same as experience is clarifying. its interesting thatsome proclaim they are in BC and that Brahman is an "understanding"not an experience. This sounds like a darshana. What is yourtraditions' and teachers' perspective on this?Could it be possible that one could become absorbed in a darshana ofBrahman -- and this enlivens shakti to some degree? And you then get alot of egomaniacs spouting from the POV of their shaktiexperiences--their subtle egos?Presence has something about it. That presence is you. In you are all the things that can be known and also the unknown. The unknown becomes darshana in the view. Because the senses really can fathom presence. Not that I would know or anything. I can't claim Brahman at all. I wish, but it would be far away at this point. The most I can comprehend are a few angels sitting on the rim of myCC'c coffee.To subscribe, send a message to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/and click 'Join This Group!' To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Real Advaita, Pseudo-Advaita, and Ramesh Balsekar at Kovalam 2004
--- Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Apr 19, 2005, at 4:33 PM, lupidus108 wrote: But to those who experience the ever expanding universe as a neverending, pulsating body of bliss on a daily basis, as a result of practices given by MMY, what good is a book ? Well the practices given by MMY came from a book--maybe they could transcend the pleasure state. Bliss kittens make nice pets, but that's about it. Maybe a good read would ground them enough to snap out of it? The pleasure from samadhi is an obstacle to samadhi. They have to be eaten by That to transcend this addiction to bliss. Bliss is stupid. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do you Yahoo!? Plan great trips with Yahoo! Travel: Now over 17,000 guides! http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Real Advaita, Pseudo-Advaita, and Ramesh Balsekar at Kovalam 2004
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Apr 19, 2005, at 4:33 PM, lupidus108 wrote: But to those who experience the ever expanding universe as a neverending, pulsating body of bliss on a daily basis, as a result of practices given by MMY, what good is a book ? Well the practices given by MMY came from a book--maybe they could transcend the pleasure state. Bliss kittens make nice pets, but that's about it. Maybe a good read would ground them enough to snap out of it? The pleasure from samadhi is an obstacle to samadhi. They have to be eaten by That to transcend this addiction to bliss. Bliss is stupid. Om Sat Chit Stupid Swami BrahmanStupid so many revisions necessary. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Real Advaita, Pseudo-Advaita, and Ramesh Balsekar at Kovalam 2004
on 4/19/05 12:16 PM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: These texts are very explicit on how to attain CC. One thing they insist: use Patanjali as part of that path. You know the bizarre thing? They insist you skip the entire siddhis portion, ESPECIALLY the levitation siddhi! They also warn on channelling, other beings, etc. Otherwise it is said you will NEVER obtain CC. Period. Would you mind posting a few key verses for us? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Real Advaita, Pseudo-Advaita, and Ramesh Balsekar at Kovalam 2004
I guess the question would be, is there a defference between personality and ego. How much does personality depend on identification with the body or as the body? Is there an I-sense that can exist beyond the body?Rick CarlstromWhen the I self sees itself as a huge totality and not as some small portion. Then one sees karmic traces which just will never stop, except by burning themselves up, and then they become stars. Stars in your eyes. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Real Advaita, Pseudo-Advaita, and Ramesh Balsekar at Kovalam 2004
on 4/19/05 3:44 PM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You think those pictures and video of people hopping is just expensive special effects? Sure used to see it a lot on TV. I remember when they broadcast the 1st yogic flying competition on the Washington news. I was there. I also remember the posters that showed someone flying across a room. But Maharishi told them to leave out the landing shots. So all you saw was a series of photos with the girl in the air, each one farther across the room, giving the impression that she was flying 30 feet or so. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Real Advaita, Pseudo-Advaita, and Ramesh Balsekar at Kovalam 2004
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Article critical of Ramesh Balsekar: http://www.inner-quest.org/Real_Advaita.htm I'm not sure what to make of the charges concerning balsekar, but I highly recommend Timothy Conway's essay on advaita and ethics towards the bottom of this link. Here's a section from his essay: It is terribly important to distinguish the Understanding (one of Ramesh's favorite terms to describe the final state) with authentic liberation/moksha/nirvana. It's pretty easy for anyone to come to the former, a clear mental-intuitive understanding of nondual teachings, which brings a certain clarity, confidence and mellow state (rather like what Alan Watts once joked would provide most people with a mystic experience: walk around for a week with two-pound weights in your shoes and then take the weights out and walk around...) It's quite another thing to be authentically free or liberated from the samskara-forces fueling an ego sense and pulling and pushing it around via the binding likes and dislikes. Just to have the understanding of freedom without genuine freedom is a colossal illusion, and easily degenerates into the kind of narcissism, lack of empathy, and tendency to exploit other sentient beings that we have witnessed among so many half-baked teachers. This is why, incidentally, the great Ch'an/Zen masters distinguish between the preliminary, temporary enlightenments, what the Japanese Zen masters term satori or kensho, and the final, real freedom of total liberation: anuttara-samyak-sambodhi. Yes, there is only the nondual One Awareness, right HERE, right NOW. Yes, ultimately nothing matters. Yes, there is no need to fabricate and carry around any baggage of egoic striving, regrets, loathing, or self-loathing. But there needs to be accountability. One must genuinely LIVE the liberated state. Not just talk about the Understanding. Jesus is alleged to have said, By their fruits ye shall know them: a good tree produces good fruits, a rotten tree gives rotten fruit. That pretty much sums it up. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Real Advaita, Pseudo-Advaita, and Ramesh Balsekar at Kovalam 2004
On Apr 18, 2005, at 11:56 AM, markmeredith2002 wrote: Just to have the understanding of freedom without genuine freedom is a colossal illusion, and easily degenerates into the kind of narcissism, lack of empathy, and tendency to exploit other sentient beings that we have witnessed among so many half-baked teachers. This is why, incidentally, the great Ch'an/Zen masters distinguish between the preliminary, temporary enlightenments, what the Japanese Zen masters term satori or kensho, and the final, real freedom of total liberation: anuttara-samyak-sambodhi. Nice post, nicely conveyed! I think the problem with neo-advaita--and one of the reasons it so easily becomes pseudo-advaita is in so many cases it's real simple to create a feel-good state just talking a kind of non-dual poetics. Waxing poetic, with non-dual sentiment flavoring 't'aint IT. This leaves a great space for the sometimes well meaning to take center stage. Unfortunately there's often an ego that's also taking center stage... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Real Advaita, Pseudo-Advaita, and Ramesh Balsekar at Kovalam 2004
Another one bites the dust? --- markmeredith2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Article critical of Ramesh Balsekar: http://www.inner-quest.org/Real_Advaita.htm I'm not sure what to make of the charges concerning balsekar, but I highly recommend Timothy Conway's essay on advaita and ethics towards the bottom of this link. Here's a section from his essay: It is terribly important to distinguish the Understanding (one of Ramesh's favorite terms to describe the final state) with authentic liberation/moksha/nirvana. It's pretty easy for anyone to come to the former, a clear mental-intuitive understanding of nondual teachings, which brings a certain clarity, confidence and mellow state (rather like what Alan Watts once joked would provide most people with a mystic experience: walk around for a week with two-pound weights in your shoes and then take the weights out and walk around...) It's quite another thing to be authentically free or liberated from the samskara-forces fueling an ego sense and pulling and pushing it around via the binding likes and dislikes. Just to have the understanding of freedom without genuine freedom is a colossal illusion, and easily degenerates into the kind of narcissism, lack of empathy, and tendency to exploit other sentient beings that we have witnessed among so many half-baked teachers. This is why, incidentally, the great Ch'an/Zen masters distinguish between the preliminary, temporary enlightenments, what the Japanese Zen masters term satori or kensho, and the final, real freedom of total liberation: anuttara-samyak-sambodhi. Yes, there is only the nondual One Awareness, right HERE, right NOW. Yes, ultimately nothing matters. Yes, there is no need to fabricate and carry around any baggage of egoic striving, regrets, loathing, or self-loathing. But there needs to be accountability. One must genuinely LIVE the liberated state. Not just talk about the Understanding. Jesus is alleged to have said, By their fruits ye shall know them: a good tree produces good fruits, a rotten tree gives rotten fruit. That pretty much sums it up. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do you Yahoo!? Plan great trips with Yahoo! Travel: Now over 17,000 guides! http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Real Advaita, Pseudo-Advaita, and Ramesh Balsekar at Kovalam 2004
On Apr 18, 2005, at 12:26 PM, Peter Sutphen wrote: Another one bites the dust? Another one bites THAT. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Real Advaita, Pseudo-Advaita, and Ramesh Balsekar at Kovalam 2004
Beautiful! Very elegantly put! The Source reveals Itself once again! All the Best, Jim --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have no idea I can do nothing but support in awe the vastly simple, blind Immensity of my not-knowing To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Real Advaita, Pseudo-Advaita, and Ramesh Balsekar at Kovalam 2004
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.advaita.org.uk/discourses/trad_neo/trad_neo.htm Here is a snip from that article: The subtle part of the ego believes itself to be 'enlightened' but the vasanas are still active, so the awakening is conceptual, and possibly imagined, rather like the 'born again' experience in evangelical Christianity. No Jnani ever claims to be Enlightened. It remains for others to recognise his qualities. To say 'I am enlightened' is a contradiction, as the I which would make such an assertion is the 'I' which has to be destroyed before Enlightenment can happen. The Neo Advaita teacher is still talking from the mind in reflected Consciousness not from the 'no mind'. To claim to have awakened others' prematurely in this tentative way then becomes further proof of a teacher's ability. This builds up a false sense of expectation in the mind of the naive and gullible adherents that they may become awakened too, if they are lucky. Similarly amusing is when someone makes the statement that there is no me. There does seem to ultimately be a kind of truth in that statement, and arguments about what constitutes a 'me' could go on forever, but for it to be even said, requires a me. Rick Carlstrom To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Real Advaita, Pseudo-Advaita, and Ramesh Balsekar at Kovalam 2004
Hi Rick, I have read (heard) a lot of teachers say this. What I understand when I hear this is it is an attempt by the Enlightened to speak about their experience for the benefit of the ignorant. Like when MMY speaks about the Knowledge being transmitted from one state of consciousness to another, something can be lost, misinterpreted. So of course a me has to convey the knowledge of no me to the ignorant, and is misunderstood. An Enlightened being would not have to make such a point to another Enlightened one. Probably a heck of a lot more confusing in english (vs. sanskrit) to make the 'me' and 'not me' distinction too, though I am hardly a linguist... Jim Similarly amusing is when someone makes the statement that there is no me. There does seem to ultimately be a kind of truth in that statement, and arguments about what constitutes a 'me' could go on forever, but for it to be even said, requires a me. Rick Carlstrom To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
