[FairfieldLife] Re: Sanskrit for vajranaathas: 'aadi' in the meaning 'etc', part 1

2010-05-11 Thread WillyTex


> > I really wish you knew Sanskrit better than 
> > you seem to...
> >
Vaj:
> My Patanjali guru was a pundit of Sanskrit and 
> knew over a dozen other languages...
>
But probably not Tibetan!

Vaj seems not to be aware that Dream Yoga has been
practiced by Tibetan Buddhists for years. I would
assume that Vaj has not had any Tibetan Buddhist
training. In a recent excange Vaj didn't seem to be 
aware of Trungpa's Shamballa project!

In Tibetan Dream Yoga, maintaining full consciousness 
while in the dream state is part of Dzogchen training. 

This training is described by Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche 
as 'Rigpa Awareness'. Lucid dreaming is secondary to 
the experience of 'Diamond Light'. Rigpa Awareness is 
very similar to 'witnessing sleep' in TM, which helps 
the individual understand the unreality of waking 
consciousness as phenomena. Apparently the EEG
patterns are the same in Rigpa Awareness as in TM. 

Read more:

'Tibetan Yoga Of Dream And Sleep'
by Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche
Snow Lion, 1998 

Other titles of interest:

'Tibetan Yoga and Secret Doctrines' 
By Lama Kazi Dawa-Samdup and W. Y. Evans-Wentz
Oxford University Press, 1967 

'The Secret Oral Teachings in Tibetan Buddhist Sects'
Alexandra David-Neel 
City Lights, 2001



[FairfieldLife] Re: Sanskrit for vajranaathas: 'aadi' in the meaning 'etc', part 1

2010-05-09 Thread WillyTex


> > We have discussed this on Usenet and FFL, but you
> > have failed to defend your own 'anthill' delusion
> > that TM requires effort. 
> >
Vaj:
> It's not my assertion, it's a basic foundational 
> tenet of Indian philosophy...
>
You are incorrect. You are unable to rise above
your 'anthill' perspective. You are biased in your 
opinion, therefore I cannot accept any of your 
speculations - you are just not credible, Vaj.

According to the first historical yogin in India, 
'striving' is counter-productive on the path to 
release from suffering, as attested by the Buddha, 
Shakyamuni himself. 

It was only AFTER the Buddha ceased his own 
striving, that he was able to attain Nirvana. 

This is common knowledge for anyone who has 
practiced Soto Zen meditation or Tibetan Dzogchen.

Your citation of the Vidyaranya, a Hindu Swami,
who apparently was unfamiliar with the life of the
Buddha, does not seem to prove your point.

Accoding to Sogyal Rinpoche:

"So take care not to impose anything on the mind 
or to tax it. When you meditate there should be 
no effort to control and no attempt to be 
peaceful. Don't be overly solemn or feel that 
you are taking part in some special ritual; let 
go even of the idea that you are meditating. 
Let your body remain as it is, and your breath 
as you find it."

Work cited: 

"The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying"
By Sogyal Rinpoche
HarperSanFrancisco, 2002 

> Buddha Shakymuni:
>
> "I crossed over the flood without pushing forward,
> without staying in place."
>
> "But how, dear sir, did you cross over the flood
> without pushing forward, without staying in place?"
>
> "When I pushed forward, I was whirled about. When I
> stayed in place, I sank. And so I crossed over the
> flood without pushing forward, without staying in
> place."
>
> SN 1.1 PTS: S i 1 CDB i 89
> Ogha-tarana Sutta: Crossing over the Flood




[FairfieldLife] Re: Sanskrit for vajranaathas: 'aadi' in the meaning 'etc', part 1

2010-05-09 Thread WillyTex


> > OK! Please, just don't claim anymore, that 
> > Patanjali *himself* was against practising 
> > the siddhis...
> >
Vaj:
> I can only tell you what I was instructed, 
> mouth to ear, in the Patanjali trad. If you 
> want to make up something else, go for it.
>
It has not been established that you even had
a Patanjali guru. You don't even seem to
understand the rudiments of Siddha Yoga, as
I pointed out above. 

Swami Rama was able to understand Patanjali's 
Yoga. Apparently, Swami Rama never had a 
Patanjali Guru either. From what I've read, 
Swami Rama wanted to be able to practice the 
siddhis, but he was unable to do so. 

Read more:

'Swami'
Doug Boyd
Random House, 1974

"Living With the Himalyan Masters'
Swami Rama
Himalayan Institute Press, 1978

'Walking With a Himalayan Master'
Justin O'Brian 
Yes international, 2006



[FairfieldLife] Re: Sanskrit for vajranaathas: 'aadi' in the meaning 'etc', part 1

2010-05-09 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj  wrote:
> > 
> > > One merely has to look at TM "sidhas" and their obsession
> > > with yogic hopping to see these dynamics of delusion at play,
> > > locking the believers into it's trap.
> > 
> > Well, some of them. Others are focused on the development
> > of consciousness resulting from the practice of the
> > TM-Sidhis program as a whole, as well as the benefits of
> > that development in daily life.
> > 
> > The fact that flying isn't happening has ensured that most
> > TM-Sidhis practitioners *aren't* (or aren't any longer)
> > obsessed with the possibility of flying and have settled
> > in for the long haul without being locked into any traps.
> 
> Not trying to start a fight or anything,

Of course not! How could anybody suspect you of such a thing?

 merely
> making a funny, but what part of people "settling
> in for the long haul" after finding out that 
> "flying" was a lie

Well, we didn't "find out it was a lie," of course.

> strikes you as *not* a trap?  :-)

I guess if you consider enjoying development of
consciousness and its benefits in daily life (see
my first paragraph--you apparently didn't read it
in your haste to "make a funny") to be a trap, then
it *would* be a trap.

As I believe someone here has said, "Argue for your
limitations, and sure enough, they're yours."
:-)  :-)  :-)  :-)




[FairfieldLife] Re: Sanskrit for vajranaathas: 'aadi' in the meaning 'etc', part 1

2010-05-09 Thread TurquoiseB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj  wrote:
> 
> > One merely has to look at TM "sidhas" and their obsession
> > with yogic hopping to see these dynamics of delusion at play,
> > locking the believers into it's trap.
> 
> Well, some of them. Others are focused on the development
> of consciousness resulting from the practice of the
> TM-Sidhis program as a whole, as well as the benefits of
> that development in daily life.
> 
> The fact that flying isn't happening has ensured that most
> TM-Sidhis practitioners *aren't* (or aren't any longer)
> obsessed with the possibility of flying and have settled
> in for the long haul without being locked into any traps.

Not trying to start a fight or anything, merely
making a funny, but what part of people "settling
in for the long haul" after finding out that 
"flying" was a lie strikes you as *not* a trap?  :-)





[FairfieldLife] Re: Sanskrit for vajranaathas: 'aadi' in the meaning 'etc', part 1

2010-05-09 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj  wrote:

> One merely has to look at TM "sidhas" and their obsession
> with yogic hopping to see these dynamics of delusion at play,
> locking the believers into it's trap.

Well, some of them. Others are focused on the development
of consciousness resulting from the practice of the
TM-Sidhis program as a whole, as well as the benefits of
that development in daily life.

The fact that flying isn't happening has ensured that most
TM-Sidhis practitioners *aren't* (or aren't any longer)
obsessed with the possibility of flying and have settled
in for the long haul without being locked into any traps.




Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Sanskrit for vajranaathas: 'aadi' in the meaning 'etc', part 1

2010-05-09 Thread Vaj

On May 9, 2010, at 3:35 AM, cardemaister wrote:

> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj  wrote:
> >
> > 
> > On May 8, 2010, at 4:50 PM, cardemaister wrote:
> > 
> > > OK! Please, just don't claim anymore, that Patanjali *himself* was
> > > against practising the siddhis, unless you can prove that the
> > > pronoun 'te' in 'te samaadhaav upasargaa...' refers to all the
> > > siddhis, not just those mentioned in the previous suutra!
> > > (Vyaasa: 'te *praatibhaadayaH*...')
> > 
> > 
> > I can only tell you what I was instructed, mouth to ear, in the Patanjali 
> > trad. If you want to make up something else, go for it.
> >
> 
> So, you appreciate "those guys" more than commentators like e.g.
> Vyaasa (te praatibhaadayaH...*) and Bhojadeva (te praakpratipaaditaaH...**)?

My teacher taught based on oral tradition and the 24 most reputable 
commentaries on the YS. So no, it wasn't just limited to Vyasa. Patanjali is an 
oral and experiential tradition. Without a teacher you'll never understand it, 
as it cannot be learned from books or from linear reading.

> 
> * Can only refer to some "list" where 'praatibha' is first.
> 
> ** Can only refer to the suutras *before* III 36 (or whatever it's
> in various editions), not for instance the YF suutra. Most probably
> refers only to the suutra "previously mentioned", even though 
> 'praak-pratipaaditaaH' is in in plural (praatibha: intuition;
> shraavana: hearing; vedana: touch; aadarsha: sight; aasvaada: taste;
> vaartaa: smell)
> 
> prAJc , f. {prA3cI} turned forwards, being in front, facing; turned 
> eastwards, easterly; previous, former; m. pl. the eastern (people or 
> grammarians). Acc. w. {kR} bring, offer, promote, further; w. {kalpay} turn 
> one's front towards. n. ***{prA3k} ({prAG}) in front, before (w. abl. of pl. 
> & t.); eastward, in the east of (abl.); formerly, previously, first, at 
> first, from now***. Instr. {prAcA3} forwards; abl. {prAca3s} from the front. 
> f. {prA3cI} ({ñdiz}) the east.
> 
> [Vaj, I really wish you knew Sanskrit better than you seem
> to. Same might apply to your Patanjali gurus... ;)]

My Patanjali guru was a pundit of Sanskrit and knew over a dozen other 
languages.

Your confusion on this verse is because you don't know which verses it's 
pointing to in the first and second pada and the principles of delusion implied 
from Samkhya, the kleshas, etc. "Te", "these", refers to the 8 kinds of 
darkness, the 8 kinds of stupidity, the 8 kinds of Big stupidity, etc. Really 
these forms of delusion and stupidity aren't limited to such lists, but are 
actually infinite, like the ways of awakening. But since yogic siddhis lock one 
into fascination and obsession at the level of the waking state, it locks you 
out of the interiority required for mastery of samadhi and the atman. That why 
it's said siddhis increase the samskaras of outwardness, the mind scars of the 
outward-stroke. One merely has to look at TM "sidhas" and their obsession with 
yogic hopping to see these dynamics of delusion at play, locking the believers 
into it's trap. But they stick around and buy product, take recertification 
courses, etc. so it has the effect that Mahesh desired: cash flow.

Have you seen "David Wants to Fly" yet?





[FairfieldLife] Re: Sanskrit for vajranaathas: 'aadi' in the meaning 'etc', part 1

2010-05-09 Thread cardemaister


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister  wrote:
> 
> trikaalajnaanaakazagamanadiSu should rather be
> trikaalajnaanaakaazagamanaadiSu (tri-kaala-jnaana[jñaana]-
> aakaasha-gamana-aadiSu).
>

BTW, that's teh way to refer to all the siddhis in vibhuuti-
paada: take as an example the *first one* (III 16: atiitaanaagata-
jñaanam aka tri-kaala-jñaanam) and a rather "dramatic" one, YF!



[FairfieldLife] Re: Sanskrit for vajranaathas: 'aadi' in the meaning 'etc', part 1

2010-05-09 Thread cardemaister


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj  wrote:
>
> 
> 5. atha paJcamaM vidvasaMnyaasaprakaraNam
> 
> 5.1 yoginaaM parahaMsaanaaM margaH
> 
> 5.1.4 kevalayoginaM kevalaM paramahaMsaM ca vaarayituM padadvayam uktam
> kevalayogii tattvajnaanaabhavena trikaalajnaanaakazagamanadiSu 
> yogaizvaryacamatkaaravyavahaareSv aasaktaH saMyamaviZeSais tatra 
> tatrodyuktas, tataH paramapuruSaarthaad bhraSTo bhavati.
> 

Well, gots to admit that's way better transliteration than
most Roman ones by "bharata-people" on, say, the PaaNini-group! :D
Right away, I could only catch two (2) mistakes:

trikaalajnaanaakazagamanadiSu should rather be
trikaalajnaanaakaazagamanaadiSu (tri-kaala-jnaana[jñaana]-
aakaasha-gamana-aadiSu). 





[FairfieldLife] Re: Sanskrit for vajranaathas: 'aadi' in the meaning 'etc', part 1

2010-05-09 Thread cardemaister


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj  wrote:
>
> 
> On May 8, 2010, at 4:50 PM, cardemaister wrote:
> 
> > OK! Please, just don't claim anymore, that Patanjali *himself* was
> > against practising the siddhis, unless you can prove that the
> > pronoun 'te' in 'te samaadhaav upasargaa...' refers to all the
> > siddhis, not just those mentioned in the previous suutra!
> > (Vyaasa: 'te *praatibhaadayaH*...')
> 
> 
> I can only tell you what I was instructed, mouth to ear, in the Patanjali 
> trad. If you want to make up something else, go for it.
>

So, you appreciate "those guys" more than commentators like e.g.
Vyaasa (te praatibhaadayaH...*) and Bhojadeva (te praakpratipaaditaaH...**)?

* Can only refer to some "list" where 'praatibha' is first.

** Can only refer to the suutras *before* III 36 (or whatever it's
in various editions), not for instance the YF suutra. Most probably
refers only to the suutra "previously mentioned", even though 
'praak-pratipaaditaaH' is in in plural (praatibha: intuition;
shraavana: hearing; vedana: touch; aadarsha: sight; aasvaada: taste;
vaartaa: smell)

 prAJc  , f. {prA3cI} turned forwards, being in front, facing; turned 
eastwards, easterly; previous, former; m. pl. the eastern (people or 
grammarians). Acc. w. {kR} bring, offer, promote, further; w. {kalpay} turn 
one's front towards. n. ***{prA3k} ({prAG}) in front, before (w. abl. of pl. & 
t.); eastward, in the east of (abl.); formerly, previously, first, at first, 
from now***. Instr. {prAcA3} forwards; abl. {prAca3s} from the front. f. 
{prA3cI} ({ñdiz}) the east.

[Vaj, I really wish you knew Sanskrit better than you seem
to. Same might apply to your Patanjali gurus... ;)]



Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Sanskrit for vajranaathas: 'aadi' in the meaning 'etc', part 1

2010-05-08 Thread Vaj

On May 8, 2010, at 4:50 PM, cardemaister wrote:

> OK! Please, just don't claim anymore, that Patanjali *himself* was
> against practising the siddhis, unless you can prove that the
> pronoun 'te' in 'te samaadhaav upasargaa...' refers to all the
> siddhis, not just those mentioned in the previous suutra!
> (Vyaasa: 'te *praatibhaadayaH*...')


I can only tell you what I was instructed, mouth to ear, in the Patanjali trad. 
If you want to make up something else, go for it.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Sanskrit for vajranaathas: 'aadi' in the meaning 'etc', part 1

2010-05-08 Thread cardemaister


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj  wrote:
>
> 
> I like the way the greatest yogin in the line of Shankara, after Shankara, 
> Vidyaranya, puts it:
> 
> Knowledge of Unity Consciousness
> 
> 5. "The Renunciation of the Knower"
> 
> 5.1 The Path of the Paramahamsa Yogins
> 
> 5.1.4. The two terms ["paramahamsa" and "yogin"] are used together in order to
> exclude someone who is only a yogin and someone who is a paramahamsa.
> Someone who is only a yogin is a person who, because of his lack of the 
> knowledge
> of truth, is attached to amazing feats of yogic power, such as knowing the 
> past,
> present, and future, yogic flying, etc., and has made efforts toward this or
> that (siddhi) with the various samyama formulae.  Consequently he
> becomes separated from the highest aim of human existence, Unity 
> Consciousness.
> --
> jiivanmuktiviveka
> 
> 5. atha paJcamaM vidvasaMnyaasaprakaraNam
> 
> 5.1 yoginaaM parahaMsaanaaM margaH
> 
> 5.1.4 kevalayoginaM kevalaM paramahaMsaM ca vaarayituM padadvayam uktam
> kevalayogii tattvajnaanaabhavena trikaalajnaanaakazagamanadiSu 
> yogaizvaryacamatkaaravyavahaareSv aasaktaH saMyamaviZeSais tatra 
> tatrodyuktas, tataH paramapuruSaarthaad bhraSTo bhavati.
> 
> The oral tradition of Patanjali is rather explicit in that it doesn't 
> cultivate mundane siddhis consciously at all, but instead is interested in 
> mastering the "fourth pranayama" whereby one masters samadhi beyond 
> restraints of time. Unfortunately for people relying on books, the YS aren't 
> taught in the written sequence, some parts are actually completely skipped 
> over. Many yogic texts rely on oral instruction and are deliberately filled 
> with such traps.
> 
> Vidyaranya's classic "Knowledge of Unity Consciousness" has numerous quotes 
> from other sages which backs up this assertion. It's only in disreputable 
> fallen yogis like Mahesh Varma that we see financial leverage of people's 
> fascination with yogic powers. Of course it also has the advantage of causing 
> delusion to arise in the students who fall for it. At that point, it doesn't 
> matter what one says, once delusion sets in, they'll defend their anthill of 
> delusion with everything from linguistic gymnastics to faked quantum physics.
>

---

OK! Please, just don't claim anymore, that Patanjali *himself* was
against practising the siddhis, unless you can prove that the
pronoun 'te' in 'te samaadhaav upasargaa...' refers to all the
siddhis, not just those mentioned in the previous suutra!
(Vyaasa: 'te *praatibhaadayaH*...')



[FairfieldLife] Re: Sanskrit for vajranaathas: 'aadi' in the meaning 'etc', part 1

2010-05-08 Thread authfriend


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj  wrote:
> 
> On May 8, 2010, at 12:01 PM, WillyTex wrote:

> > Maybe so, but you still have not addressed the
> > central proposition made by MMY: the 'effortless
> > transcending', first mentioned at Madras in 1957.
> > 
> > We have discussed this on Usenet and FFL, but you
> > have failed to defend your own 'anthill' delusion
> > that TM requires effort. 
> 
> It's not my assertion, it's a basic foundational tenet of
> Indian philosophy, including the yoga of Patanjali.
> That's why the word for "effort" in Sanskrit is also the
> word for "technique". If there's a technique involved,
> there's always some form of effort involved, as Mahesh
> even admitted in old TTC's.

MMY said, "TM isn't a technique. We call it a technique
because it works."




Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Sanskrit for vajranaathas: 'aadi' in the meaning 'etc', part 1

2010-05-08 Thread Vaj

On May 8, 2010, at 12:01 PM, WillyTex wrote:

> 
> 
> Vaj:
> > ...they'll defend their anthill of delusion with 
> > everything from linguistic gymnastics to faked 
> > quantum physics.
> >
> Maybe so, but you still have not addressed the
> central proposition made by MMY: the 'effortless
> transcending', first mentioned at Madras in 1957.
> 
> We have discussed this on Usenet and FFL, but you
> have failed to defend your own 'anthill' delusion
> that TM requires effort. 


It's not my assertion, it's a basic foundational tenet of Indian philosophy, 
including the yoga of Patanjali. That's why the word for "effort" in Sanskrit 
is also the word for "technique". If there's a technique involved, there's 
always some form of effort involved, as Mahesh even admitted in old TTC's. His 
students, relentlessly parroting their own misguided ideas with little 
independent investigation, never seem to have gotten a clue...

[FairfieldLife] Re: Sanskrit for vajranaathas: 'aadi' in the meaning 'etc', part 1

2010-05-08 Thread WillyTex


Vaj:
> ...they'll defend their anthill of delusion with 
> everything from linguistic gymnastics to faked 
> quantum physics.
>
Maybe so, but you still have not addressed the
central proposition made by MMY: the 'effortless
transcending', first mentioned at Madras in 1957.

We have discussed this on Usenet and FFL, but you
have failed to defend your own 'anthill' delusion
that TM requires effort. 

Buddha Shakymuni:

"I crossed over the flood without pushing forward, 
without staying in place."

"But how, dear sir, did you cross over the flood 
without pushing forward, without staying in place?"

"When I pushed forward, I was whirled about. When I 
stayed in place, I sank. And so I crossed over the 
flood without pushing forward, without staying in 
place."

SN 1.1 PTS: S i 1 CDB i 89
Ogha-tarana Sutta: Crossing over the Flood 




[FairfieldLife] Re: Sanskrit for vajranaathas: 'aadi' in the meaning 'etc', part 1

2010-05-08 Thread WillyTex


> > So, siddhi techniques are somewhat paradoxical..
>
Vaj:
> "...is attached to amazing feats of yogic power, 
> such as knowing the past, present, and future
>
One of the most famous 'siddhis' is clairvoyance, 
(Trikalajriatvam) 'the knowledge of the past, 
present and future', mentioned in Samyutta Nikaya.

Apparently the Swami Vidyaranya got really mixed up 
on this one. Go figure.

Everyone knows that the historical Buddha defined 
his own realization as the ability to see into the 
past, the present, and the future, that is, 
Pubbenivasnussati. 

This happened to the historical Buddha in the 'first
watch of the night' (about 6:00 - 10:00 PM). He 
realized complete awakening and insight into the 
nature and cause of human suffering.

Pubbenivasnussati:

"...is the power to remember the past lives of 
oneself and others."

Basic Buddhism:
http://tinyurl.com/3aayfnz   

He spontaneously remembered all of his past 
existences or former lives, and the suffering he 
experienced in each, and he saw into the future 
and saw all the suffering he was going to 
experience. 

He also saw the sufferings of all beings of the 
past and in the future. He thus concluded that 
because of the law of karma, it would not be in 
anyone's best interest to be reborn again.

After experiencing this siddhi, the Buddha 
attained unsurpassed Nirvana, that is, total Unity 
Conciousness (Bodhi), from which there is no 
return and no future birth.



Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Sanskrit for vajranaathas: 'aadi' in the meaning 'etc', part 1

2010-05-08 Thread Vaj

On May 8, 2010, at 2:36 AM, cardemaister wrote:

> Well, vajranaatha-s seem to have realized they have
> extremely little chances to find a good comment on YS
> that supports their view of practising the siddhis.
> 
> Actually, there seems to be at least one suutra that
> emphasizes the importance of not becoming attached to
> the occult powers, namely IV 29:
> 
> prasaMkhyaane 'py akusiidasya sarvathaa viveka-khyaater
> dharma-meghaH samaadhiH.
> 
> So, one has to remain 'akusiida' even in 'prasaMkhyaana',
> which means that one "has" 'viveka-khyaati' in every way
> (sarvathaa).
> 
> It doesn't seem possible to know whether one is 'akusiida'
> e.g. towards the occult powers unless on can "master" them,
> now does it?!
> 
> So, siddhi techniques are somewhat paradoxical: to "attain"
> samaadhi (III 3) one needs to practice them (saMyama) but for the highest 
> state of samaadhi (dharma-megha), one has to treat them
> as any other everyday skill: *yogastaH* kuru karmaaNi!


I like the way the greatest yogin in the line of Shankara, after Shankara, 
Vidyaranya, puts it:

Knowledge of Unity Consciousness

5. "The Renunciation of the Knower"

5.1 The Path of the Paramahamsa Yogins

5.1.4. The two terms ["paramahamsa" and "yogin"] are used together in order to
exclude someone who is only a yogin and someone who is a paramahamsa.
Someone who is only a yogin is a person who, because of his lack of the 
knowledge
of truth, is attached to amazing feats of yogic power, such as knowing the past,
present, and future, yogic flying, etc., and has made efforts toward this or
that (siddhi) with the various samyama formulae.  Consequently he
becomes separated from the highest aim of human existence, Unity Consciousness.
--
jiivanmuktiviveka

5. atha paJcamaM vidvasaMnyaasaprakaraNam

5.1 yoginaaM parahaMsaanaaM margaH

5.1.4 kevalayoginaM kevalaM paramahaMsaM ca vaarayituM padadvayam uktam
kevalayogii tattvajnaanaabhavena trikaalajnaanaakazagamanadiSu 
yogaizvaryacamatkaaravyavahaareSv aasaktaH saMyamaviZeSais tatra tatrodyuktas, 
tataH paramapuruSaarthaad bhraSTo bhavati.

The oral tradition of Patanjali is rather explicit in that it doesn't cultivate 
mundane siddhis consciously at all, but instead is interested in mastering the 
"fourth pranayama" whereby one masters samadhi beyond restraints of time. 
Unfortunately for people relying on books, the YS aren't taught in the written 
sequence, some parts are actually completely skipped over. Many yogic texts 
rely on oral instruction and are deliberately filled with such traps.

Vidyaranya's classic "Knowledge of Unity Consciousness" has numerous quotes 
from other sages which backs up this assertion. It's only in disreputable 
fallen yogis like Mahesh Varma that we see financial leverage of people's 
fascination with yogic powers. Of course it also has the advantage of causing 
delusion to arise in the students who fall for it. At that point, it doesn't 
matter what one says, once delusion sets in, they'll defend their anthill of 
delusion with everything from linguistic gymnastics to faked quantum physics.




[FairfieldLife] Re: Sanskrit for vajranaathas: 'aadi' in the meaning 'etc', part 1

2010-05-08 Thread cardemaister


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister  wrote:
>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, vajranaatha-s seem to have realized they have
> extremely little chances to find a good comment on YS
> that supports their view of practising the siddhis.
> 
> Actually, there seems to be at least one suutra that
> emphasizes the importance of not becoming attached to
> the occult powers, namely IV 29:
> 
> prasaMkhyaane 'py akusiidasya sarvathaa viveka-khyaater
> dharma-meghaH samaadhiH.
> 
> So, one has to remain 'akusiida' even in 'prasaMkhyaana',
> which means that one "has" 'viveka-khyaati' in every way
> (sarvathaa).
> 
> It doesn't seem possible to know whether one is 'akusiida'
> e.g. towards the occult powers unless on can "master" them,
> now does it?!

As a rather simple analogy, one can't know whether one is
potential alcoholic before one drinks some, or stuff?


> 
> So, siddhi techniques are somewhat paradoxical: to "attain"
> samaadhi (III 3) one needs to practice them (saMyama) but for the highest 
> state of samaadhi (dharma-megha), one has to treat them
> as any other everyday skill: *yogastaH* kuru karmaaNi!
>




[FairfieldLife] Re: Sanskrit for vajranaathas: 'aadi' in the meaning 'etc', part 1

2010-05-07 Thread cardemaister




Well, vajranaatha-s seem to have realized they have
extremely little chances to find a good comment on YS
that supports their view of practising the siddhis.

Actually, there seems to be at least one suutra that
emphasizes the importance of not becoming attached to
the occult powers, namely IV 29:

prasaMkhyaane 'py akusiidasya sarvathaa viveka-khyaater
dharma-meghaH samaadhiH.

So, one has to remain 'akusiida' even in 'prasaMkhyaana',
which means that one "has" 'viveka-khyaati' in every way
(sarvathaa).

It doesn't seem possible to know whether one is 'akusiida'
e.g. towards the occult powers unless on can "master" them,
now does it?!

So, siddhi techniques are somewhat paradoxical: to "attain"
samaadhi (III 3) one needs to practice them (saMyama) but for the highest state 
of samaadhi (dharma-megha), one has to treat them
as any other everyday skill: *yogastaH* kuru karmaaNi!





[FairfieldLife] Re: Sanskrit for vajranaathas: 'aadi' in the meaning 'etc', part 1

2010-05-05 Thread cardemaister



Perhaps it should be kept in mind that MaharSi Kapila:

  smR^ityanavakAshadoShaprasaN^ga iti 
   chennAnyasmR^ityanavakAshadoShaprasaN^gAt.h OM || 2\.1\.1||

...and MaharSi Patañjali:

  etena yogaH pratyuktaH OM || 2\.1\.3||

...were "arch-enemies" of MaharSi BaadaraayaNa, 
the author of Brahma-suutras!  ;D