[FairfieldLife] Re: The facts about 'The Maharishi' biography
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Richard J. Williams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> If the cook was Shantanand and he was suspected of murder > >> why did the Swami Svarupanand invite him to the birthday > >> celebration reported by Kropinsky? > > > > I for one would not rule out Colonial Mustard. > > > From what I've read they didn't serve Colonial Mustard at the birthday snip So, if Shantanand was the cook that conspired with the Marshy to > murder the Guru Devji, then he would hardly have been invited to sit > with the Svarup and the oldest living desciple at the birthday > celebration, would he? Shankaracharys aren't supposed to be sitting > with cooks on the stage, especially ones who conspire to poison your > guru! Do you agree? First, I have to correct my typo from Colonial Mustard to Colonel Mustard. Next, I'll have to give it some further thought. lurk Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The facts about 'The Maharishi' biography
>> If the cook was Shantanand and he was suspected of murder >> why did the Swami Svarupanand invite him to the birthday >> celebration reported by Kropinsky? > > I for one would not rule out Colonial Mustard. > >From what I've read they didn't serve Colonial Mustard at the birthday celebration reported by Kropinsky. It was a celebration of the birthday of the oldest living desciple of Brahmananda Saraswati. Kropinsky apparently got a letter from Swami Prakashanand Saraswati requesting an audience with Svarupanand. All the desciples of Brahmanand were invited to the party including Shantanand. During the interview with Kropinsky, Svarupanand mentioned the will and Shantanand, and the poison rumor, but didn't say anything about a cook. However, the Svarupanand did confirm that Shantanand was to sit with to him on the stage. From reading the Kropinsky interview it seems like Svarupanand did not challenge the position of Shantanand. So, if Shantanand was the cook that conspired with the Marshy to murder the Guru Devji, then he would hardly have been invited to sit with the Svarup and the oldest living desciple at the birthday celebration, would he? Shankaracharys aren't supposed to be sitting with cooks on the stage, especially ones who conspire to poison your guru! Do you agree? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The facts about 'The Maharishi' biography
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "lurkernomore20002000" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Richard J. Williams" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > The cook was Shantanand, I beleive, who was first on the list, and > > > became Shankarachara -- so it was a bit more interesting, with a > > > thicker plot -- than your account suggests. > > > > > If the cook was Shantanand and he was suspected of murder why did the > > Swami Svarupanand invite him to the birthday celebration reported by > > Kropinsky? > > I for one would not rule out Colonial Mustard. I heard food poisoning. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The facts about 'The Maharishi' biography
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Its fun(ny). In reading "my" words of the past per your link, its as > if I am reading the exchange of two parties. I am not tied to one or > the other's views. Its like my past writings are just of "another" > person out there. *** I had a similar experience once. A professor at some esteemed university wrote me to notify me that he had cited an essay that I had posted on the web several years ago and thanking me for my insights. Naturally, I looked up the reference. While I recognized that I had actually written it, I really felt like I was reading someone else's work. I couldn't imagine having those insights and points of view. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The facts about 'The Maharishi' biography
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > (Different paths may lead to > > > > different peaks, but its all high altitude peaks and air with > similar > > > > views.) > > > > > > Aha - so you *do* have a working assumption that these peaks all > > exist in the same underlying universe. > > > > > > (A little quibble we had some months ago - you've probably > forgotten) > > > > Not quite knowing who you are, its hard to recall. > > > > I am open to the LBSian theory of many paths, many peaks. I am > open to > > the possibility that, at some point, the peaks are a distinction > > without a meaningful difference. > > > > Any way, a foolish consistancy is the hobgoblin of little minds. > > *** > Akasha, > > Please reference: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/57406 > > And I also acknowledge your Emerson quote. I don't want to be held > to a particular point of view either. ;-> Oh. You are THAT anon. I remember. :) So perhaps, probably not LBS, per my guess in adjacent post. Its fun(ny). In reading "my" words of the past per your link, its as if I am reading the exchange of two parties. I am not tied to one or the other's views. Its like my past writings are just of "another" person out there. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The facts about 'The Maharishi' biography
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > (Different paths may lead to > > > different peaks, but its all high altitude peaks and air with similar > > > views.) > > > > Aha - so you *do* have a working assumption that these peaks all > exist in the same underlying universe. > > > > (A little quibble we had some months ago - you've probably forgotten) > > Not quite knowing who you are, its hard to recall. > > I am open to the LBSian theory of many paths, many peaks. I am open to > the possibility that, at some point, the peaks are a distinction > without a meaningful difference. > > Any way, a foolish consistancy is the hobgoblin of little minds. *** Akasha, Please reference: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/57406 And I also acknowledge your Emerson quote. I don't want to be held to a particular point of view either. ;-> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The facts about 'The Maharishi' biography
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Richard J. Williams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > The cook was Shantanand, I beleive, who was first on the list, and > > became Shankarachara -- so it was a bit more interesting, with a > > thicker plot -- than your account suggests. > > > If the cook was Shantanand and he was suspected of murder why did the > Swami Svarupanand invite him to the birthday celebration reported by > Kropinsky? I for one would not rule out Colonial Mustard. lurk > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
FW: [FairfieldLife] Re: The facts about 'The Maharishi' biography
More comments from Dana: -- Forwarded Message From: Dana Sawyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 12:35:49 -0400 To: Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: FW: [FairfieldLife] Re: The facts about 'The Maharishi' biography Rick, here are a few more comments. >> The cook was Shantanand, I beleive, who was first on the list, and >> became Shankarachara -- yes. > > >> ...I think that Shantanand was GD's cook is the best >> established of the facts. he was. > > >Guru Dev didn't have a cook - Sannyasins of the Shankaracharya order >don't eat food cooked by others. Actually, this is wrong. Not only was Shantananda the cook, as everyone agrees, but dandi samnyasis (and, if fact, all swamis of the Shankaracarya orders) can ONLY eat food cooked by others. Part of the samnyas is to never do any work, including cooking, and they are doubly prevented by the fact that they also vow never to touch fire (which is why TM teachers turn away from the photo of Brahmananda when they kindle fire during puja). Swamis only eat food cooked by others. > > >> And it appears from some testimony regarding the will, that GD was >> not very lucid in his last days. All agree on this. > > >> Plausibly the effect of sudden poisons introduced. Yes, plausibly, but we'll never know. > > >According to the coroners report Guru Dev died of natural causes - no >mention of poisons in the Indian press at the time. But no autopsy was ever performed and so we'll never know. > > >> But hypothetically, if a signed "list" appeared, it would give >> enough nominal clearance during the chaos of GD's passing, to enable >> a new shankaracharaya to be rushed into GD's quarters. Which is what >> happened. yes, this is correct. > > >According to the Times of India Shantanand was installed as the new >Shankaracharya with all due pomp and ceremony in a public coronation >that lasted for days. But was also poorly attended due to the controvery which immediately occured. Only TMers think that everything was hunky dory when Shantananda took over the properties. > > >> Then it became a game of "possession is 9/10s of the law". right again. > > >Shantanand, as Guru Dev's succussor, inherited the Shankaracharya >title, the Jyotirmath, the property, and all the accoutrements of the >office. Swami Vasudevananda Saraswati is the current Shankaracharya at >Jyotirmath. This person is obviously a major Shantananda supporter because facts seem to be of no concern. Vasudevananda cannot even publicly claim to be Shankaracarya without risking jail. The properties he inherited are meager and in disrepair. On the other hand, Swarupananda's properties have greatly increased and he is the personage backed by the other Shankaracaryas and the general population. > > >> And GD's clerk or secretary would be the person to prepare such a >> list. And could have had GD sign it, at GD's request, or in the >> confusion of his non-lucidity, if that occurred. Mahesh did prepare and present the will. > > >Apparently Guru Dev's last will and command was written in Hindi by >Guru Dev himself. No, it was dictacted to Mahesh. >The will has never been contested, according to >published reports. Which pulished reports? Do you mean contested in court or simply publicly contested? Either way this is a wrong statement. It has been greatly contested in public (and from the immediate time of Brahmananda's death) and once in court. Dana Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The facts about 'The Maharishi' biography
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > wrote: > > > > > it can cause confusion. He even says this is the meaning of > > > > Jesus's comment "I am the ONLY way" > > > > > > Minor quibble: I don't believe Jesus is recorded > > > as having said this, but rather just "I am the way." > > > It's subsequent Christian teaching that derives > > > "ONLY" from that assertion. > > > > > > Otherwise, nice post... > > > > I am the way, the truth and the light. No-one comes to the Father > > save by me (Me). > > Oh, hmm, you're right. Of course, "I" and "Me" fit very nicely with Self in Eastern spiritual circles... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The facts about 'The Maharishi' biography
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > it can cause confusion. He even says this is the meaning of > > > Jesus's comment "I am the ONLY way" > > > > Minor quibble: I don't believe Jesus is recorded > > as having said this, but rather just "I am the way." > > It's subsequent Christian teaching that derives > > "ONLY" from that assertion. > > > > Otherwise, nice post... > > I am the way, the truth and the light. No-one comes to the Father > save by me (Me). Oh, hmm, you're right. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The facts about 'The Maharishi' biography
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jyouells2000" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jyouells2000" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > And I have been greatly impressed by Pauls SBS research and > > > > > homepage. Great work. > > > > > > > > I've complimented Paul on this as well. It's clearly > > > > a labor of great love and a terrific resource. > > > > > > > > However, I wonder about the suggestion Paul made on > > > > alt.m.t that Maharishi has deliberately refrained > > > > from making Guru Dev's teaching available to TMers > > > > because MMY is afraid it would make him, MMY, look > > > > bad by comparison. > > > > > > > > I also wonder how much honor it pays to Guru Dev > > > > to use one's professed reverence for the master > > > > as a basis for attacking one of his most devoted > > > > followers, whatever one may think of that follower. > > > > > > Judy, > > > > > > I don't think that most of us can know for sure if Maharishi was > > > or is one of Guru Dev's most devoted followers. They only knowlege > > > of his relationship with Guru Dev comes from him. For most, that is > > > enough, but is it certain? We did not know Guru Dev or his > > > teachings directly. We have a few stories from Satyaanand, and Dr. > > > Varma, but that's about it. > > > > I deliberately chose a neutral term--"follower" > > rather than "disciple" or even "student"--so as > > not to get into questions about the nature of > > MMY's relationship with Guru Dev. > > Maharishi uses that status as a devoted disciple of Guru Dev (or > student but not follower in the sense that you have qualified it) to > help establish the validity of his teaching for his students. But that's irrelevant in terms of the point I was making. > > Unless one wants to claim that his professed > > devotion has been *insincere* all along, but I > > have a lot of trouble seeing that notion as > > anything but absurdly cynical. That isn't what > > you're suggesting, is it, that we should be > > skeptical of MMY's sincerity in that regard? > > I did not say insincere, I said we can't know, because there is only > one source. I know you didn't, and I didn't think it's hwat you were *suggesting* (implying). But it seems to me that's the only grounds on which one could say MMY is not one of Guru Dev's most devoted followers. > We don't know how TM came from Guru Dev - was it inspired, > given directly, before Guru Devs passing, after - we just don't > know. Even Maharishi says that he did not realize thru TM, he > realized through his proximity, service and attunement to Guru Dev. Still don't see what that has to do with whether he's a devoted follower. > Skeptical > of MMY's sincerity? Yes on many things: M. Joytish, M. Satpatya > Veda, Money, Sex, Lies, millionaires courses, Rajas, 3 million > dollar peace Palaces, etc... I can imagine him being insincere on any of these, but I'm not sure that insincerity in these respects says anything about the sincerity of his devotion to Guru Dev. Looks like apples and oranges to me. > I'm interested in truth not belief. I don't like > being lied to. Why do you think that many that were closest to him, > left? Don't think it's relevant. Anyway, my *point* was, genuine reverence for Guru Dev would seem to me to preclude using praise for him as the context to bash *any* of his followers. Bash MMY all you want, just don't do it in the context of professing reverence for Guru Dev. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The facts about 'The Maharishi' biography
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Then again, had I written a sychophantic gilded haliography, it would > > have cornered a niche market, even the TM movement would have stocked > > it and I'd be sailing! > > That would be a great name for a rock band: > the Sychophantic Gilded Haliography. Edited version: Sycophantic Gilded Hagiography. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The facts about 'The Maharishi' biography
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > > The recognized Shankaracharya (the one most here seem to prefer) > > > > referred to MMY as an ashram clerk. The rumor was that this clerk > > > > managed to conspire with a cook to kill Gurudev. AFter the will > > > > wasproduced, this clerk was so powerful as to get the first guy > > on > > > > the list proclaimed Shankaracharya overthe protestations (if you > > > > believe what everyone here appears to) liaterally everyother > > disciple > > > > of Gurudev besides MMY and the cook. > > > > > > > > > > The cook was Shantanand, I beleive, who was first on the list, and > > > became Shankarachara -- so it was a bit more interesting, with a > > > thicker plot -- than your account suggests. > > > > > > Don't mistake this as an endorsement of all of the rumored details > > of > > > said plot. But I think that Shantanand was GD's cook is the best > > > established of the facts. And MMY was his clerk, aka secretary. > > > > > > And it appears from some testimony regarding the will, that GD was > > not > > > very lucid in his last days. Plausibly the effect of sudden poisons > > > introduced. > > > > > > I am not sure "power", as you argue, would be the issue in this > > > circumstance, tho again i am not arguing for the validity of the > > > "plot". But hypothetically, if a signed "list" appeared, it would > > give > > > enough nominal clearance during the chaos of GD's passing, to > > enable a > > > new shankaracharaya to be rushed into GD's quarters. Which is what > > > happened. Then it became a game of "possession is 9/10s of the > > law". > > > > > > And GD's clerk or secretary would be the person to prepare such a > > > list. And could have had GD sign it, at GD's request, or in the > > > confusion of his non-lucidity, if that occurred. > > > > Others have claimed that Shantayanda was NOT a cook, but whatever. > > > > As I said, making the cook the spiritual leader is traditional in > > some religions, but not the Brahmin-dominated Hindus. Of COURSE this > > caused massive protesting in some quarters. A cook???!!!? > > > I am not arguing for or against. Or for or against cooks. But by most > accounts that I have heard, Shantanand was said to be a sweet, pious > man, but with not much training in vedic literature or sanskrit. In > that aspect, he failed one of the three requirements for the job. But > perhaps I have not heard correctly, or the full story. He might not have been, orperhaps they just assumed that a cook couldn't possibly be worthy and made up the "but he's not trained in Sanskrit" as an excuse. Recall also that the "shankaracharya maker" guy wanted to be in charge of Yet Another Shankaracharya appointment and an unknown cook wouldn't build up his reputation. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The facts about 'The Maharishi' biography
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > The recognized Shankaracharya (the one most here seem to prefer) > > referred to MMY as an ashram clerk. The rumor was that this clerk > > managed to conspire with a cook to kill Gurudev. AFter the will > > wasproduced, this clerk was so powerful as to get the first guy on > > the list proclaimed Shankaracharya overthe protestations (if you > > believe what everyone here appears to) liaterally everyother disciple > > of Gurudev besides MMY and the cook. > > > > The cook was Shantanand, I beleive, who was first on the list, and > became Shankarachara -- so it was a bit more interesting, with a > thicker plot -- than your account suggests. > > Don't mistake this as an endorsement of all of the rumored details of > said plot. But I think that Shantanand was GD's cook is the best > established of the facts. And MMY was his clerk, aka secretary. > > And it appears from some testimony regarding the will, that GD was not > very lucid in his last days. Plausibly the effect of sudden poisons > introduced. > > I am not sure "power", as you argue, would be the issue in this > circumstance, tho again i am not arguing for the validity of the > "plot". But hypothetically, if a signed "list" appeared, it would give > enough nominal clearance during the chaos of GD's passing, to enable a > new shankaracharaya to be rushed into GD's quarters. Which is what > happened. Then it became a game of "possession is 9/10s of the law". > > And GD's clerk or secretary would be the person to prepare such a > list. And could have had GD sign it, at GD's request, or in the > confusion of his non-lucidity, if that occurred. See - that's what I mean - divergent stories - very difficult to know the truth of it all...few direct witnesses, to much time, spin, politics, and the very elastic Indian definition of truth... JohnY Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The facts about 'The Maharishi' biography
> The cook was Shantanand, I beleive, who was first on the list, and > became Shankarachara -- so it was a bit more interesting, with a > thicker plot -- than your account suggests. > If the cook was Shantanand and he was suspected of murder why did the Swami Svarupanand invite him to the birthday celebration reported by Kropinsky? > ...I think that Shantanand was GD's cook is the best > established of the facts. > Guru Dev didn't have a cook - Sannyasins of the Shankaracharya order don't eat food cooked by others. > And MMY was his clerk, aka secretary. > MMY was a devotee who performed office duty, probably because he could read and write English. > And it appears from some testimony regarding the will, that GD was > not very lucid in his last days. > Plausibly the effect of sudden poisons introduced. > According to the coroners report Guru Dev died of natural causes - no mention of poisons in the Indian press at the time. Shantanand was at Allahabad at the Shankar Math at the time, not in Calcutta with Guru Dev. > But hypothetically, if a signed "list" appeared, it would give > enough nominal clearance during the chaos of GD's passing, to enable > a new shankaracharaya to be rushed into GD's quarters. Which is what > happened. > According to the Times of India Shantanand was installed as the new Shankaracharya with all due pomp and ceremony in a public coronation that lasted for days. > Then it became a game of "possession is 9/10s of the law". > Shantanand, as Guru Dev's succussor, inherited the Shankaracharya title, the Jyotirmath, the property, and all the accoutrements of the office. Swami Vasudevananda Saraswati is the current Shankaracharya at Jyotirmath. > And GD's clerk or secretary would be the person to prepare such a > list. And could have had GD sign it, at GD's request, or in the > confusion of his non-lucidity, if that occurred. > Apparently Guru Dev's last will and command was written in Hindi by Guru Dev himself. The will has never been contested, according to published reports. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The facts about 'The Maharishi' biography
> The rumor was that this clerk managed to conspire with a > cook to kill Gurudev. > The Shankaracharya of Dwarka never said anyhting about a cook conspiring to murder Guru Dev - that was a rumor started by Steve Perino on Usenet. You can refer to the Kropinsky interview with the Shankaracharya to confirm this - no mention of a cook. And why? First, Swami Brahmananda Saraswati didn't employ a cook. Second, he wasn't at Jyotirmath when he died. And third, there's no mention anywhere in the Indian press at the time that Guru Dev died of anything but natural causes. > After the will was produced, this clerk was so powerful as to > get the first guy on the list proclaimed Shankaracharya over the > protestations (if you believe what everyone here appears to) > liaterally every other disciple of Gurudev besides MMY and the cook. > Sounds like a pretty powerful clerk! But, it's a fact that there was no dispute over the will, according to Swami Svarupanand Saraswati, and he agrees that Shantanand was the first to be mentioned in the will. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The facts about 'The Maharishi' biography
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > The recognized Shankaracharya (the one most here seem to prefer) > > > referred to MMY as an ashram clerk. The rumor was that this clerk > > > managed to conspire with a cook to kill Gurudev. AFter the will > > > wasproduced, this clerk was so powerful as to get the first guy > on > > > the list proclaimed Shankaracharya overthe protestations (if you > > > believe what everyone here appears to) liaterally everyother > disciple > > > of Gurudev besides MMY and the cook. > > > > > > > The cook was Shantanand, I beleive, who was first on the list, and > > became Shankarachara -- so it was a bit more interesting, with a > > thicker plot -- than your account suggests. > > > > Don't mistake this as an endorsement of all of the rumored details > of > > said plot. But I think that Shantanand was GD's cook is the best > > established of the facts. And MMY was his clerk, aka secretary. > > > > And it appears from some testimony regarding the will, that GD was > not > > very lucid in his last days. Plausibly the effect of sudden poisons > > introduced. > > > > I am not sure "power", as you argue, would be the issue in this > > circumstance, tho again i am not arguing for the validity of the > > "plot". But hypothetically, if a signed "list" appeared, it would > give > > enough nominal clearance during the chaos of GD's passing, to > enable a > > new shankaracharaya to be rushed into GD's quarters. Which is what > > happened. Then it became a game of "possession is 9/10s of the > law". > > > > And GD's clerk or secretary would be the person to prepare such a > > list. And could have had GD sign it, at GD's request, or in the > > confusion of his non-lucidity, if that occurred. > > Others have claimed that Shantayanda was NOT a cook, but whatever. > > As I said, making the cook the spiritual leader is traditional in > some religions, but not the Brahmin-dominated Hindus. Of COURSE this > caused massive protesting in some quarters. A cook???!!!? I am not arguing for or against. Or for or against cooks. But by most accounts that I have heard, Shantanand was said to be a sweet, pious man, but with not much training in vedic literature or sanskrit. In that aspect, he failed one of the three requirements for the job. But perhaps I have not heard correctly, or the full story. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The facts about 'The Maharishi' biography
--- GOOD STUFF! In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > And I have been greatly impressed by Pauls SBS research and > > > homepage. Great work. > > > > I've complimented Paul on this as well. It's clearly > > a labor of great love and a terrific resource. > > > > However, I wonder about the suggestion Paul made on > > alt.m.t that Maharishi has deliberately refrained > > from making Guru Dev's teaching available to TMers > > because MMY is afraid it would make him, MMY, look > > bad by comparison. > > > > I also wonder how much honor it pays to Guru Dev > > to use one's professed reverence for the master > > as a basis for attacking one of his most devoted > > followers, whatever one may think of that follower. > > I rarely read AMT and don't wish to dip into a discussion that I am > not part of and that probably has a larger context and set of arguments. > > However, my own observations: MMY from my earliest days of seeing him, > 67, and ever since, emphasised NOT reading and seeing other teachers. > To my surprise SSRS has made similar points, indicating it can cause > confusion. He even says this is the meaning of Jesus's comment "I am > the ONLY way" and is applicable to all teachers. If you follow a > teacher, they offer an integrated package, internally consistant, that > will get you to the "goal". While the parts of each program are > internally consistant, they are not inter-program exchangable and > consistant. They may conflict. Thus, on an itner-program basis, each > component is not necessarily internally consistant and a hodge- podge > chinese menu, a la carte menu of practices, drawn across various > teachers' offerings, is not productive, for the most part. Or at least > not "supported", not tested, and not "guaranteed". > > MMY once said that the Veda is so vast that any statement could be > made that is consistent with the Veda. As will be its opposite. Thus > it is not hard to see that taking one angle, an internally consistent > system can be created. And taking another angle, a different, but > valid system can also be created. Sort of parallel to Euclidean and > non-Euclidean geometries. Though each of them are "correct", their > parts are not interchangable. > > SBS is a different teacher that MMY. I don't think MMY ever claimed to > be teaching everything SBS taught. Indeed he has said he is not. MMY > has his own angle of teaching. And SBS did not teach exactly the same > package as his teacher Krishanand, I presume. And each disciple of SBS > does not teach the same package. > > The key thing that teachers pass down to their students is the full > light of Consciousness. Each student in the full light of > Consciousness, and given their propensities and inclinations (perhaps > as detailed by jyotish chart), their total training -- from all > teachers, their past life experience, the needs and karmas of their > students, the needs of the time, etc, derive an integrated, internally > consistent, sadhana that fits them and the times in which they teach. > It will not be the same as what other fully lit teachers will do, even > those who come from the same teacher. > > Just as SSRS, who honors MMY as his teacher, teaches his own > integrated package. Mixing and matching methods from SBS, MMY and SSRS > could be a messy and inefficient sadhana. As would mixing and matching > methods solely of MMY and SBS. That is why I belive MMY does not talk > about all the things SBS did and taught. All of that is NOT MMY's > program. And SBS would not mix and match, borowing from MMY if he were > (explicitly) teaching today. Each teacher takes their own angle. > > So to observe that MMY is not teaching all that SBS taught, or is not > revealing all things of SBS, does not seem odd or even a constraint. > It would be inefficient to mix and match. As to other reasons why > teachers focus on their angles, and not other teachers, everyone may > have their theories. Paul may have his. You may have yours. Its all > fun speculation. While perhaps as useful as gossip, its not a huge sin > either, IMO. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://d
[FairfieldLife] Re: The facts about 'The Maharishi' biography
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > The recognized Shankaracharya (the one most here seem to prefer) > > referred to MMY as an ashram clerk. The rumor was that this clerk > > managed to conspire with a cook to kill Gurudev. AFter the will > > wasproduced, this clerk was so powerful as to get the first guy on > > the list proclaimed Shankaracharya overthe protestations (if you > > believe what everyone here appears to) liaterally everyother disciple > > of Gurudev besides MMY and the cook. > > > > The cook was Shantanand, I beleive, who was first on the list, and > became Shankarachara -- so it was a bit more interesting, with a > thicker plot -- than your account suggests. > > Don't mistake this as an endorsement of all of the rumored details of > said plot. But I think that Shantanand was GD's cook is the best > established of the facts. And MMY was his clerk, aka secretary. > > And it appears from some testimony regarding the will, that GD was not > very lucid in his last days. Plausibly the effect of sudden poisons > introduced. > > I am not sure "power", as you argue, would be the issue in this > circumstance, tho again i am not arguing for the validity of the > "plot". But hypothetically, if a signed "list" appeared, it would give > enough nominal clearance during the chaos of GD's passing, to enable a > new shankaracharaya to be rushed into GD's quarters. Which is what > happened. Then it became a game of "possession is 9/10s of the law". > > And GD's clerk or secretary would be the person to prepare such a > list. And could have had GD sign it, at GD's request, or in the > confusion of his non-lucidity, if that occurred. Others have claimed that Shantayanda was NOT a cook, but whatever. As I said, making the cook the spiritual leader is traditional in some religions, but not the Brahmin-dominated Hindus. Of COURSE this caused massive protesting in some quarters. A cook???!!!? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The facts about 'The Maharishi' biography
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The recognized Shankaracharya (the one most here seem to prefer) > referred to MMY as an ashram clerk. The rumor was that this clerk > managed to conspire with a cook to kill Gurudev. AFter the will > wasproduced, this clerk was so powerful as to get the first guy on > the list proclaimed Shankaracharya overthe protestations (if you > believe what everyone here appears to) liaterally everyother disciple > of Gurudev besides MMY and the cook. > The cook was Shantanand, I beleive, who was first on the list, and became Shankarachara -- so it was a bit more interesting, with a thicker plot -- than your account suggests. Don't mistake this as an endorsement of all of the rumored details of said plot. But I think that Shantanand was GD's cook is the best established of the facts. And MMY was his clerk, aka secretary. And it appears from some testimony regarding the will, that GD was not very lucid in his last days. Plausibly the effect of sudden poisons introduced. I am not sure "power", as you argue, would be the issue in this circumstance, tho again i am not arguing for the validity of the "plot". But hypothetically, if a signed "list" appeared, it would give enough nominal clearance during the chaos of GD's passing, to enable a new shankaracharaya to be rushed into GD's quarters. Which is what happened. Then it became a game of "possession is 9/10s of the law". And GD's clerk or secretary would be the person to prepare such a list. And could have had GD sign it, at GD's request, or in the confusion of his non-lucidity, if that occurred. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The facts about 'The Maharishi' biography
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jyouells2000" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jyouells2000" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > And I have been greatly impressed by Pauls SBS research and > > > > > homepage. Great work. > > > > > > > > I've complimented Paul on this as well. It's clearly > > > > a labor of great love and a terrific resource. > > > > > > > > However, I wonder about the suggestion Paul made on > > > > alt.m.t that Maharishi has deliberately refrained > > > > from making Guru Dev's teaching available to TMers > > > > because MMY is afraid it would make him, MMY, look > > > > bad by comparison. > > > > > > > > I also wonder how much honor it pays to Guru Dev > > > > to use one's professed reverence for the master > > > > as a basis for attacking one of his most devoted > > > > followers, whatever one may think of that follower. > > > > > > Judy, > > > > > > I don't think that most of us can know for sure if Maharishi was > > or > > > is one of Guru Dev's most devoted followers. They only knowlege of > > his > > > relationship with Guru Dev comes from him. For most, that is enough, > > > but is it certain? We did not know Guru Dev or his teachings > > > directly. We have a few stories from Satyaanand, and Dr. Varma, but > > > that's about it. > > > > > > > We do know that mmy was Gurudev's right hand man, at least in public. > > No we don't really know this either -couple of pictures of Guru Dev > with Maharishi in the vicinity, and what Maharishi himself has said... > The recognized Shankaracharya (the one most here seem to prefer) referred to MMY as an ashram clerk. The rumor was that this clerk managed to conspire with a cook to kill Gurudev. AFter the will wasproduced, this clerk was so powerful as to get the first guy on the list proclaimed Shankaracharya overthe protestations (if you believe what everyone here appears to) liaterally everyother disciple of Gurudev besides MMY and the cook. > > We also know what others said about MMY, good and bad. > > Yup - we do know this... And you no doubt take everything you hear seriously, both good and bad... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The facts about 'The Maharishi' biography
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > (Different paths may lead to > > > different peaks, but its all high altitude peaks and air with > similar > > > views.) > > > > Aha - so you *do* have a working assumption that these peaks all > exist > > in the same underlying universe. > > > > (A little quibble we had some months ago - you've probably forgotten) > > WHICH underlying universe? > > Modern Science deals with 4 meta-verses you know: > > 1) an infinite universe (if flat) where ANYTHING can happen; > 2) a many-worlds multi-universe where EVERYTHING happens; > 3) a meta-many-worlds multiverse where all possible universal constants > are manifest; > 4) a meta-meta-multiverse where any mathematically consistent > description ofthe universe exists. > > > _Number of the Beast_ by RH Heinlein discusses this last one. I do miss Heinlein... and it looks like 4 may be the one that shakes out... ;) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The facts about 'The Maharishi' biography
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jyouells2000" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > > > > And I have been greatly impressed by Pauls SBS research and > > > > homepage. Great work. > > > > > > I've complimented Paul on this as well. It's clearly > > > a labor of great love and a terrific resource. > > > > > > However, I wonder about the suggestion Paul made on > > > alt.m.t that Maharishi has deliberately refrained > > > from making Guru Dev's teaching available to TMers > > > because MMY is afraid it would make him, MMY, look > > > bad by comparison. > > > > > > I also wonder how much honor it pays to Guru Dev > > > to use one's professed reverence for the master > > > as a basis for attacking one of his most devoted > > > followers, whatever one may think of that follower. > > > > Judy, > > > > I don't think that most of us can know for sure if Maharishi was > or > > is one of Guru Dev's most devoted followers. They only knowlege of > his > > relationship with Guru Dev comes from him. For most, that is enough, > > but is it certain? We did not know Guru Dev or his teachings > > directly. We have a few stories from Satyaanand, and Dr. Varma, but > > that's about it. > > > > We do know that mmy was Gurudev's right hand man, at least in public. No we don't really know this either -couple of pictures of Guru Dev with Maharishi in the vicinity, and what Maharishi himself has said... > We also know what others said about MMY, good and bad. Yup - we do know this... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The facts about 'The Maharishi' biography
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > (Different paths may lead to > > different peaks, but its all high altitude peaks and air with similar > > views.) > > Aha - so you *do* have a working assumption that these peaks all exist > in the same underlying universe. > > (A little quibble we had some months ago - you've probably forgotten) WHICH underlying universe? Modern Science deals with 4 meta-verses you know: 1) an infinite universe (if flat) where ANYTHING can happen; 2) a many-worlds multi-universe where EVERYTHING happens; 3) a meta-many-worlds multiverse where all possible universal constants are manifest; 4) a meta-meta-multiverse where any mathematically consistent description ofthe universe exists. _Number of the Beast_ by RH Heinlein discusses this last one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The facts about 'The Maharishi' biography
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > > > > And I have been greatly impressed by Pauls SBS research and > > > > homepage. Great work. > > > > > > I've complimented Paul on this as well. It's clearly > > > a labor of great love and a terrific resource. > > > > > > However, I wonder about the suggestion Paul made on > > > alt.m.t that Maharishi has deliberately refrained > > > from making Guru Dev's teaching available to TMers > > > because MMY is afraid it would make him, MMY, look > > > bad by comparison. > > > > > > I also wonder how much honor it pays to Guru Dev > > > to use one's professed reverence for the master > > > as a basis for attacking one of his most devoted > > > followers, whatever one may think of that follower. > > > > I rarely read AMT and don't wish to dip into a discussion that I am > > not part of and that probably has a larger context and set of > arguments. > > > > However, my own observations: MMY from my earliest days of seeing > > him, 67, and ever since, emphasised NOT reading and seeing other > > teachers. To my surprise SSRS has made similar points, indicating > > it can cause confusion. He even says this is the meaning of > > Jesus's comment "I am the ONLY way" > > Minor quibble: I don't believe Jesus is recorded > as having said this, but rather just "I am the way." > It's subsequent Christian teaching that derives > "ONLY" from that assertion. > > Otherwise, nice post... I am the way, the truth and the light. No-one comes to the Father save by me (Me). > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The facts about 'The Maharishi' biography
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jyouells2000" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > And I have been greatly impressed by Pauls SBS research and > > > homepage. Great work. > > > > I've complimented Paul on this as well. It's clearly > > a labor of great love and a terrific resource. > > > > However, I wonder about the suggestion Paul made on > > alt.m.t that Maharishi has deliberately refrained > > from making Guru Dev's teaching available to TMers > > because MMY is afraid it would make him, MMY, look > > bad by comparison. > > > > I also wonder how much honor it pays to Guru Dev > > to use one's professed reverence for the master > > as a basis for attacking one of his most devoted > > followers, whatever one may think of that follower. > > Judy, > > I don't think that most of us can know for sure if Maharishi was or > is one of Guru Dev's most devoted followers. They only knowlege of his > relationship with Guru Dev comes from him. For most, that is enough, > but is it certain? We did not know Guru Dev or his teachings > directly. We have a few stories from Satyaanand, and Dr. Varma, but > that's about it. > We do know that mmy was Gurudev's right hand man, at least in public. We also know what others said about MMY, good and bad. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The facts about 'The Maharishi' biography
Of course, MMY identified himself as a renegade [reformer] from the very start, so the fact that his teachings weren't always in resonance with Gurudev's shouldn't be a surprise. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Akasha, thanks for your feedback about my work etc. Incidentally, > when the topic of why MMY does not publish his guru's teachings > arose, I was asked as to why I thought this was. At the time I had > not one idea about it. But I thought about it for a while and offered > that the most likely reason was that by comparison, people would see > Guru Dev as a real 'guru'. After multiple hours of attempting to > unlock the words of Guru Dev I still think this is true. But there is > obviously another reason, of which I was then unaware. That the > teachings, in places, are divergent to those of MMY. > > I tend to agree with you about mixing and matching generally, if one > has a guru it is best to stick with them. But isn't it usual to be > able to coexist with those in a parampara lineage of teachers? > Actually, I suggest that it is extremely unlikely that the teachings > of Guru Dev differed significantly from those of his teacher since > they are certainly in complete conformity with those of Adi > Shankaracharya. Whether or not one resonates with the published > teachings of Guru Dev, in every aspect he was the epitomy of a guru, > and the personification of Hinduism. To me he was the living > embodiment of his own words which were frequently those of the > scriptures he revered. > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > > > > And I have been greatly impressed by Pauls SBS research and > > > > homepage. Great work. > > > > > > I've complimented Paul on this as well. It's clearly > > > a labor of great love and a terrific resource. > > > > > > However, I wonder about the suggestion Paul made on > > > alt.m.t that Maharishi has deliberately refrained > > > from making Guru Dev's teaching available to TMers > > > because MMY is afraid it would make him, MMY, look > > > bad by comparison. > > > > > > I also wonder how much honor it pays to Guru Dev > > > to use one's professed reverence for the master > > > as a basis for attacking one of his most devoted > > > followers, whatever one may think of that follower. > > > > I rarely read AMT and don't wish to dip into a discussion that I am > > not part of and that probably has a larger context and set of > arguments. > > > > However, my own observations: MMY from my earliest days of seeing > him, > > 67, and ever since, emphasised NOT reading and seeing other > teachers. > > To my surprise SSRS has made similar points, indicating it can cause > > confusion. He even says this is the meaning of Jesus's comment "I > am > > the ONLY way" and is applicable to all teachers. If you follow a > > teacher, they offer an integrated package, internally consistant, > that > > will get you to the "goal". While the parts of each program are > > internally consistant, they are not inter-program exchangable and > > consistant. They may conflict. Thus, on an itner-program basis, each > > component is not necessarily internally consistant and a hodge- podge > > chinese menu, a la carte menu of practices, drawn across various > > teachers' offerings, is not productive, for the most part. Or at > least > > not "supported", not tested, and not "guaranteed". > > > > MMY once said that the Veda is so vast that any statement could be > > made that is consistent with the Veda. As will be its opposite. Thus > > it is not hard to see that taking one angle, an internally > consistent > > system can be created. And taking another angle, a different, but > > valid system can also be created. Sort of parallel to Euclidean and > > non-Euclidean geometries. Though each of them are "correct", their > > parts are not interchangable. > > > > SBS is a different teacher that MMY. I don't think MMY ever claimed > to > > be teaching everything SBS taught. Indeed he has said he is not. MMY > > has his own angle of teaching. And SBS did not teach exactly the > same > > package as his teacher Krishanand, I presume. And each disciple of > SBS > > does not teach the same package. > > > > The key thing that teachers pass down to their students is the full > > light of Consciousness. Each student in the full light of > > Consciousness, and given their propensities and inclinations > (perhaps > > as detailed by jyotish chart), their total training -- from all > > teachers, their past life experience, the needs and karmas of their > > students, the needs of the time, etc, derive an integrated, > internally > > consistent, sadhana that fits them and the t
[FairfieldLife] Re: The facts about 'The Maharishi' biography
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Cliff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I like the Lesbian theory of "many peaks"... :-) Yes, vedic scholar David Lynch's depiction of such occurred to me when I wrote that. Though the L Word does a good job too. Do you think David is secretly behind that series? Think he will host a symposium on vedic lesbianism in Vldrop? LBS can be the moderator. > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > I am open to the LBSian theory of many paths, many peaks. I am open to > > the possibility that, at some point, the peaks are a distinction > > without a meaningful difference. > > > > Any way, a foolish consistancy is the hobgoblin of little minds. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The facts about 'The Maharishi' biography
I like the Lesbian theory of "many peaks"... :-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I am open to the LBSian theory of many paths, many peaks. I am open to > the possibility that, at some point, the peaks are a distinction > without a meaningful difference. > > Any way, a foolish consistancy is the hobgoblin of little minds. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The facts about 'The Maharishi' biography
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > (Different paths may lead to > > different peaks, but its all high altitude peaks and air with similar > > views.) > > Aha - so you *do* have a working assumption that these peaks all exist in the same underlying universe. > > (A little quibble we had some months ago - you've probably forgotten) Not quite knowing who you are, its hard to recall. I am open to the LBSian theory of many paths, many peaks. I am open to the possibility that, at some point, the peaks are a distinction without a meaningful difference. Any way, a foolish consistancy is the hobgoblin of little minds. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The facts about 'The Maharishi' biography
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jyouells2000" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > > > > And I have been greatly impressed by Pauls SBS research and > > > > homepage. Great work. > > > > > > I've complimented Paul on this as well. It's clearly > > > a labor of great love and a terrific resource. > > > > > > However, I wonder about the suggestion Paul made on > > > alt.m.t that Maharishi has deliberately refrained > > > from making Guru Dev's teaching available to TMers > > > because MMY is afraid it would make him, MMY, look > > > bad by comparison. > > > > > > I also wonder how much honor it pays to Guru Dev > > > to use one's professed reverence for the master > > > as a basis for attacking one of his most devoted > > > followers, whatever one may think of that follower. > > > > Judy, > > > > I don't think that most of us can know for sure if Maharishi was > > or is one of Guru Dev's most devoted followers. They only knowlege > > of his relationship with Guru Dev comes from him. For most, that is > > enough, but is it certain? We did not know Guru Dev or his > > teachings directly. We have a few stories from Satyaanand, and Dr. > > Varma, but that's about it. > > I deliberately chose a neutral term--"follower" > rather than "disciple" or even "student"--so as > not to get into questions about the nature of > MMY's relationship with Guru Dev. Maharishi uses that status as a devoted disciple of Guru Dev (or student but not follower in the sense that you have qualified it) to help establish the validity of his teaching for his students. > One can be a follower of a teacher without ever > having laid eyes on him; one can be a follower > of a teacher who has died before one was born, > for that matter. sure > It seems to me MMY's repeated and consistent > public statements about his devotion to Guru Dev > by themselves qualify him to be called one of > Guru Dev's most devoted followers, regardless of > their actual relationship. I believe he claims disciple status not follower status > Unless one wants to claim that his professed > devotion has been *insincere* all along, but I > have a lot of trouble seeing that notion as > anything but absurdly cynical. That isn't what > you're suggesting, is it, that we should be > skeptical of MMY's sincerity in that regard? I did not say insincere, I said we can't know, because there is only one source. We don't know how TM came from Guru Dev - was it inspired, given directly, before Guru Devs passing, after - we just don't know. Even Maharishi says that he did not realize thru TM, he realized through his proximity, service and attunement to Guru Dev. Skeptical of MMY's sincerity? Yes on many things: M. Joytish, M. Satpatya Veda, Money, Sex, Lies, millionaires courses, Rajas, 3 million dollar peace Palaces, etc... I'm interested in truth not belief. I don't like being lied to. Why do you think that many that were closest to him, left? JohnY Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The facts about 'The Maharishi' biography
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: (Different paths may lead to > different peaks, but its all high altitude peaks and air with similar > views.) Aha - so you *do* have a working assumption that these peaks all exist in the same underlying universe. (A little quibble we had some months ago - you've probably forgotten) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The facts about 'The Maharishi' biography
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick Gillam" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I've heard it was Mark Twain (who else?) who said writing is a great way to get rich and a > terrible way to earn a living. My favourite Mark Twain-ism had to do with my home province. Asked about a visit he made to Quebec, Twain said: you can't throw a rock in Quebec without breaking a church window. > > - Patrick Gillam > www.itellyousell.com > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > It is a fallacy that there is usually much money from writing books. > > There are execeptions of course, authors of mass appeal like John La > > Carre for instance, but I think even for him the money is not the > > consideration, he still works on and on, despite being rather well > > heeled, then again he is then able to donate money to causes of his > > choice, like making a major donation to his local community meeting > > hall. > > > > Then again, had I written a sychophantic gilded haliography, it would > > have cornered a niche market, even the TM movement would have stocked > > it and I'd be sailing! > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > on 9/6/05 1:06 PM, lupidus108 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > > > > > Forget about the finer points this Paul fellow is into this > > > > Maharishi-bashing for the money; sales of books, possibly fees from > > > > CIA - and (very) temporary fame. > > > > > > OK Paul, tell us. Are you raking it in? How big is your yacht? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The facts about 'The Maharishi' biography
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Then again, had I written a sychophantic gilded haliography, it would > have cornered a niche market, even the TM movement would have stocked > it and I'd be sailing! That would be a great name for a rock band: the Sychophantic Gilded Haliography. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The facts about 'The Maharishi' biography
I've heard it was Mark Twain (who else?) who said writing is a great way to get rich and a terrible way to earn a living. - Patrick Gillam www.itellyousell.com --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > It is a fallacy that there is usually much money from writing books. > There are execeptions of course, authors of mass appeal like John La > Carre for instance, but I think even for him the money is not the > consideration, he still works on and on, despite being rather well > heeled, then again he is then able to donate money to causes of his > choice, like making a major donation to his local community meeting > hall. > > Then again, had I written a sychophantic gilded haliography, it would > have cornered a niche market, even the TM movement would have stocked > it and I'd be sailing! > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > on 9/6/05 1:06 PM, lupidus108 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > > > Forget about the finer points this Paul fellow is into this > > > Maharishi-bashing for the money; sales of books, possibly fees from > > > CIA - and (very) temporary fame. > > > > OK Paul, tell us. Are you raking it in? How big is your yacht? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The facts about 'The Maharishi' biography
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > And I have been greatly impressed by Pauls SBS research and > > > homepage. Great work. > > > > I've complimented Paul on this as well. It's clearly > > a labor of great love and a terrific resource. > > > > However, I wonder about the suggestion Paul made on > > alt.m.t that Maharishi has deliberately refrained > > from making Guru Dev's teaching available to TMers > > because MMY is afraid it would make him, MMY, look > > bad by comparison. > > > > I also wonder how much honor it pays to Guru Dev > > to use one's professed reverence for the master > > as a basis for attacking one of his most devoted > > followers, whatever one may think of that follower. > > I rarely read AMT and don't wish to dip into a discussion that I am > not part of and that probably has a larger context and set of arguments. > > However, my own observations: MMY from my earliest days of seeing > him, 67, and ever since, emphasised NOT reading and seeing other > teachers. To my surprise SSRS has made similar points, indicating > it can cause confusion. He even says this is the meaning of > Jesus's comment "I am the ONLY way" Minor quibble: I don't believe Jesus is recorded as having said this, but rather just "I am the way." It's subsequent Christian teaching that derives "ONLY" from that assertion. Otherwise, nice post... and is applicable to all teachers. If you follow a > teacher, they offer an integrated package, internally consistant, that > will get you to the "goal". While the parts of each program are > internally consistant, they are not inter-program exchangable and > consistant. They may conflict. Thus, on an itner-program basis, each > component is not necessarily internally consistant and a hodge-podge > chinese menu, a la carte menu of practices, drawn across various > teachers' offerings, is not productive, for the most part. Or at least > not "supported", not tested, and not "guaranteed". > > MMY once said that the Veda is so vast that any statement could be > made that is consistent with the Veda. As will be its opposite. Thus > it is not hard to see that taking one angle, an internally consistent > system can be created. And taking another angle, a different, but > valid system can also be created. Sort of parallel to Euclidean and > non-Euclidean geometries. Though each of them are "correct", their > parts are not interchangable. > > SBS is a different teacher that MMY. I don't think MMY ever claimed to > be teaching everything SBS taught. Indeed he has said he is not. MMY > has his own angle of teaching. And SBS did not teach exactly the same > package as his teacher Krishanand, I presume. And each disciple of SBS > does not teach the same package. > > The key thing that teachers pass down to their students is the full > light of Consciousness. Each student in the full light of > Consciousness, and given their propensities and inclinations (perhaps > as detailed by jyotish chart), their total training -- from all > teachers, their past life experience, the needs and karmas of their > students, the needs of the time, etc, derive an integrated, internally > consistent, sadhana that fits them and the times in which they teach. > It will not be the same as what other fully lit teachers will do, even > those who come from the same teacher. > > Just as SSRS, who honors MMY as his teacher, teaches his own > integrated package. Mixing and matching methods from SBS, MMY and SSRS > could be a messy and inefficient sadhana. As would mixing and matching > methods solely of MMY and SBS. That is why I belive MMY does not talk > about all the things SBS did and taught. All of that is NOT MMY's > program. And SBS would not mix and match, borowing from MMY if he were > (explicitly) teaching today. Each teacher takes their own angle. > > So to observe that MMY is not teaching all that SBS taught, or is not > revealing all things of SBS, does not seem odd or even a constraint. > It would be inefficient to mix and match. As to other reasons why > teachers focus on their angles, and not other teachers, everyone may > have their theories. Paul may have his. You may have yours. Its all > fun speculation. While perhaps as useful as gossip, its not a huge sin > either, IMO. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go
[FairfieldLife] Re: The facts about 'The Maharishi' biography
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Akasha, thanks for your feedback about my work etc. Incidentally, > when the topic of why MMY does not publish his guru's teachings > arose, Brought up by Paul himself, as I recall. I was asked as to why I thought this was. At the time I had > not one idea about it. But I thought about it for a while and offered > that the most likely reason was that by comparison, people would see > Guru Dev as a real 'guru'. After multiple hours of attempting to > unlock the words of Guru Dev I still think this is true. But there is > obviously another reason, of which I was then unaware. That the > teachings, in places, are divergent to those of MMY. > > I tend to agree with you about mixing and matching generally, if one > has a guru it is best to stick with them. But isn't it usual to be > able to coexist with those in a parampara lineage of teachers? > Actually, I suggest that it is extremely unlikely that the teachings > of Guru Dev differed significantly from those of his teacher since > they are certainly in complete conformity with those of Adi > Shankaracharya. Whether or not one resonates with the published > teachings of Guru Dev, in every aspect he was the epitomy of a guru, > and the personification of Hinduism. To me he was the living > embodiment of his own words which were frequently those of the > scriptures he revered. > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > > > > And I have been greatly impressed by Pauls SBS research and > > > > homepage. Great work. > > > > > > I've complimented Paul on this as well. It's clearly > > > a labor of great love and a terrific resource. > > > > > > However, I wonder about the suggestion Paul made on > > > alt.m.t that Maharishi has deliberately refrained > > > from making Guru Dev's teaching available to TMers > > > because MMY is afraid it would make him, MMY, look > > > bad by comparison. > > > > > > I also wonder how much honor it pays to Guru Dev > > > to use one's professed reverence for the master > > > as a basis for attacking one of his most devoted > > > followers, whatever one may think of that follower. > > > > I rarely read AMT and don't wish to dip into a discussion that I am > > not part of and that probably has a larger context and set of > arguments. > > > > However, my own observations: MMY from my earliest days of seeing > him, > > 67, and ever since, emphasised NOT reading and seeing other > teachers. > > To my surprise SSRS has made similar points, indicating it can cause > > confusion. He even says this is the meaning of Jesus's comment "I > am > > the ONLY way" and is applicable to all teachers. If you follow a > > teacher, they offer an integrated package, internally consistant, > that > > will get you to the "goal". While the parts of each program are > > internally consistant, they are not inter-program exchangable and > > consistant. They may conflict. Thus, on an itner-program basis, each > > component is not necessarily internally consistant and a hodge- podge > > chinese menu, a la carte menu of practices, drawn across various > > teachers' offerings, is not productive, for the most part. Or at > least > > not "supported", not tested, and not "guaranteed". > > > > MMY once said that the Veda is so vast that any statement could be > > made that is consistent with the Veda. As will be its opposite. Thus > > it is not hard to see that taking one angle, an internally > consistent > > system can be created. And taking another angle, a different, but > > valid system can also be created. Sort of parallel to Euclidean and > > non-Euclidean geometries. Though each of them are "correct", their > > parts are not interchangable. > > > > SBS is a different teacher that MMY. I don't think MMY ever claimed > to > > be teaching everything SBS taught. Indeed he has said he is not. MMY > > has his own angle of teaching. And SBS did not teach exactly the > same > > package as his teacher Krishanand, I presume. And each disciple of > SBS > > does not teach the same package. > > > > The key thing that teachers pass down to their students is the full > > light of Consciousness. Each student in the full light of > > Consciousness, and given their propensities and inclinations > (perhaps > > as detailed by jyotish chart), their total training -- from all > > teachers, their past life experience, the needs and karmas of their > > students, the needs of the time, etc, derive an integrated, > internally > > consistent, sadhana that fits them and the times in which they > teach. > > It will not be the same as what other fully lit teachers will do, > even > > those who come from the
[FairfieldLife] Re: The facts about 'The Maharishi' biography
It is a fallacy that there is usually much money from writing books. There are execeptions of course, authors of mass appeal like John La Carre for instance, but I think even for him the money is not the consideration, he still works on and on, despite being rather well heeled, then again he is then able to donate money to causes of his choice, like making a major donation to his local community meeting hall. Then again, had I written a sychophantic gilded haliography, it would have cornered a niche market, even the TM movement would have stocked it and I'd be sailing! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > on 9/6/05 1:06 PM, lupidus108 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > Forget about the finer points this Paul fellow is into this > > Maharishi-bashing for the money; sales of books, possibly fees from > > CIA - and (very) temporary fame. > > OK Paul, tell us. Are you raking it in? How big is your yacht? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The facts about 'The Maharishi' biography
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "lupidus108" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > > And I have been greatly impressed by Pauls SBS research and > > > homepage. Great work. > > > > I've complimented Paul on this as well. It's clearly > > a labor of great love and a terrific resource. > > > > However, I wonder about the suggestion Paul made on > > alt.m.t that Maharishi has deliberately refrained > > from making Guru Dev's teaching available to TMers > > because MMY is afraid it would make him, MMY, look > > bad by comparison. > > > > I also wonder how much honor it pays to Guru Dev > > to use one's professed reverence for the master > > as a basis for attacking one of his most devoted > > followers, whatever one may think of that follower. > > Forget about the finer points this Paul fellow is into this > Maharishi-bashing for the money; sales of books, possibly fees from > CIA - and (very) temporary fame. Oh, please. From the CIA?? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The facts about 'The Maharishi' biography
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jyouells2000" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > And I have been greatly impressed by Pauls SBS research and > > > homepage. Great work. > > > > I've complimented Paul on this as well. It's clearly > > a labor of great love and a terrific resource. > > > > However, I wonder about the suggestion Paul made on > > alt.m.t that Maharishi has deliberately refrained > > from making Guru Dev's teaching available to TMers > > because MMY is afraid it would make him, MMY, look > > bad by comparison. > > > > I also wonder how much honor it pays to Guru Dev > > to use one's professed reverence for the master > > as a basis for attacking one of his most devoted > > followers, whatever one may think of that follower. > > Judy, > > I don't think that most of us can know for sure if Maharishi was > or is one of Guru Dev's most devoted followers. They only knowlege > of his relationship with Guru Dev comes from him. For most, that is > enough, but is it certain? We did not know Guru Dev or his > teachings directly. We have a few stories from Satyaanand, and Dr. > Varma, but that's about it. I deliberately chose a neutral term--"follower" rather than "disciple" or even "student"--so as not to get into questions about the nature of MMY's relationship with Guru Dev. One can be a follower of a teacher without ever having laid eyes on him; one can be a follower of a teacher who has died before one was born, for that matter. It seems to me MMY's repeated and consistent public statements about his devotion to Guru Dev by themselves qualify him to be called one of Guru Dev's most devoted followers, regardless of their actual relationship. Unless one wants to claim that his professed devotion has been *insincere* all along, but I have a lot of trouble seeing that notion as anything but absurdly cynical. That isn't what you're suggesting, is it, that we should be skeptical of MMY's sincerity in that regard? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The facts about 'The Maharishi' biography
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I tend to agree with you about mixing and matching generally, if one > has a guru it is best to stick with them. But isn't it usual to be > able to coexist with those in a parampara lineage of teachers? > Actually, I suggest that it is extremely unlikely that the teachings > of Guru Dev differed significantly from those of his teacher since > they are certainly in complete conformity with those of Adi > Shankaracharya. Well, many teachers claim linneage to Shankara and yet their teachings vary vastly. And are by no means "necessarily" compatible or interchangible with each other. I don't know if SBS's teachings really differed from Swami Krishanand. I simple suspect the SBS took his own unique angles -- based on his "lit" insight and his specific path and history. But I do know, per MMY, Jerry J and Satynand talks, that SBS himself did not teach one thing. It was not just hindus that came to him for giudance, much less just saivite hindus. Its my understanding that saivites, vaishnaivites, devotess of the devi, shi-ite and shunni muslems, siks, jains, buddhists, catholics, protestants, jews all came to him for spiritual advice and guidance. And Indians, Europeans, etc. And brahmins, kashatrias and vaisas (I assume sudras too, but who knows what protocols actually prevailed -- he did not give audience to women) He did not give the same teaching to each of the above. He gave them guidance based on their needs and traditions. And I speculate, a lot of it was not formulatic -- that is he did not learn by rote from his teacher and linneage "if a haisadic jew comes to you for advice on liberation, and he is under 50 years old, and is married, then give this advice, else give that advice, else ...". I speculate, strongly intuitively, that a lot of his guidance was "ad hoc". He, in real time, sized up the seeker, and "it came to him" -- based on his lit Consciousness and spiritual training, what would work for that person. Thus, if so, even teachings under the umbrella of one teacher, are not interchangeable and do not form a a la carte menu for seekers. Much less for different teachers, even if of the same linneage. Much less for teachers of different linneages. Even if all the guidance and methods lead to a similar territory. (Different paths may lead to different peaks, but its all high altitude peaks and air with similar views.) But, what do i know! What do i really know? Not a thing, for sure. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The facts about 'The Maharishi' biography
on 9/6/05 1:06 PM, lupidus108 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > Forget about the finer points this Paul fellow is into this > Maharishi-bashing for the money; sales of books, possibly fees from > CIA - and (very) temporary fame. OK Paul, tell us. Are you raking it in? How big is your yacht? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The facts about 'The Maharishi' biography
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > And I have been greatly impressed by Pauls SBS research and > > homepage. Great work. > > I've complimented Paul on this as well. It's clearly > a labor of great love and a terrific resource. > > However, I wonder about the suggestion Paul made on > alt.m.t that Maharishi has deliberately refrained > from making Guru Dev's teaching available to TMers > because MMY is afraid it would make him, MMY, look > bad by comparison. > > I also wonder how much honor it pays to Guru Dev > to use one's professed reverence for the master > as a basis for attacking one of his most devoted > followers, whatever one may think of that follower. Forget about the finer points this Paul fellow is into this Maharishi-bashing for the money; sales of books, possibly fees from CIA - and (very) temporary fame. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The facts about 'The Maharishi' biography
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > And I have been greatly impressed by Pauls SBS research and > > homepage. Great work. > > I've complimented Paul on this as well. It's clearly > a labor of great love and a terrific resource. > > However, I wonder about the suggestion Paul made on > alt.m.t that Maharishi has deliberately refrained > from making Guru Dev's teaching available to TMers > because MMY is afraid it would make him, MMY, look > bad by comparison. > > I also wonder how much honor it pays to Guru Dev > to use one's professed reverence for the master > as a basis for attacking one of his most devoted > followers, whatever one may think of that follower. Judy, I don't think that most of us can know for sure if Maharishi was or is one of Guru Dev's most devoted followers. They only knowlege of his relationship with Guru Dev comes from him. For most, that is enough, but is it certain? We did not know Guru Dev or his teachings directly. We have a few stories from Satyaanand, and Dr. Varma, but that's about it. JohnY Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The facts about 'The Maharishi' biography
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > It is pretty clear that my biogaphy 'The Maharishi' was not
> > welcomed with open arms by the movement that attempts to control
> > the public perception of the Maharishi's image. Nevertheless, I
get
> > a lot of emails from initiators congratulating me on the style
and
> > content and sense of balance. To date I have had about half a
dozen
> > communications cricical of the book, and this includes TMO lawyer
> > faxes before the book was read.
> >
> > Yet there are members of this newsgroup who misquote the contents
> > and refer disparagingly to its writing style, and (proudly?)
admit
> > to not reading the book, despite the fact I have placed a version
> > on-line for over one and a half years.
>
> Sorry, but I'm really quite tired of these willful
> distortions from Paul (since he obviously is
> including me among those he's referring to).
>
> Speaking for myself: I've never quoted, let alone
> misquoted, the contents of Paul's book. Nor have I
> "referred disparagingly to its writing style." For
> the record--and speaking as an editor--from what I've
> seen of his writing style, I think he writes very
> well.
>
> I have not read the book ("proudly" or otherwise). A
> year or so ago Paul left a post on alt.m.t complaining
> that he had seen some negative comments on "chat
> groups" about his book and protesting that he had no
> agenda.
>
> I took a quick look at a few chapters on the Web and
> told him I thought the tone of what I'd read was
> distinctly snarky.
>
> I said he had a perfect right to be snarky about MMY,
> but that it was disingenuous for him to claim he had
> no agenda.
>
> That is *all* I've ever said about the book.
>
> My subsequent comments about Paul have all had to do
> with his posts to this and several other forums.
> I have questioned some of his interpretations in
> those posts of MMY's actions, which have seemed to me
> to be unfair and/or ill-founded, particularly his
> unfavorable comparisons of MMY to Guru Dev.
>
> Again, Paul has a perfect right to criticize MMY.
> By the same token, though, if he presents his views
> in a public forum, he is implicitly opening them to
> discussion and comment.
>
> But he seems to think that anyone who questions his
> views about MMY on any grounds whatsoever must be
> doing so because his views "threaten" their beliefs
> (a canard echoed frequently by Barry). This is a
> convenient way of dismissing informed criticism by
> "demonizing" the critic--ironically, the same charge
> he (along, again, with Barry) has leveled at the
> critics themselves.
>
> I have also charged Paul with hypocrisy for
> continuing to pretend he is just presenting "the
> facts" when the content of his posts is so
> obviously filtered through an anti-MMY bias.
>
> That is the *sole* basis for my personal criticism
> of Paul--not that he doesn't like MMY, not that he
> presents information that is unfavorable to MMY.
> Nothing he has said has "threatened" my beliefs in
> any way; my view of MMY's character is so neutral
> as to be almost nonexistent. I don't feel I have
> the grounds necessary to judge MMY's character.
> As far as I'm concerned, MMY is a cipher.
>
> I don't participate in either MMY-bashing or MMY-
> sanctifying, but that doesn't mean I don't recognize
> unjustified bashing or sanctifying, nor does it mean
> I've somehow given up my right to call attention to
> it when I see it.
>
> > I blame the TMO to a large extent, in that it has always tried to
> > demonize anything it cannot control, and so these 'defenders'
have
> > been trained, quite subliminally, to reject anything which has
not
> > been sanctified by the fusty dusty air of a TMO office.
>
> If these "defenders" rejected anything which
> has not been sanctified by the fusty dusty air of a TMO
> office, they wouldn't be participating on these forums
> in the first place. Guess the "training" hasn't been
> quite as effective as Paul would have you believe.
>
> "Incidentally." Uh-huh. I'm trying to remember
> where I heard the notion that creating controversy
> about a book is a good way to increase its sales...
>
> Paul should be thanking us "defenders." Hmm,
> maybe the TMO won't be so pleased with us after all.
Thats right, paracites like Paul thrive on PR. What he does not
understand is what could happen to him once his 15-minutes of fame is
up...
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[FairfieldLife] Re: The facts about 'The Maharishi' biography
Akasha, thanks for your feedback about my work etc. Incidentally, when the topic of why MMY does not publish his guru's teachings arose, I was asked as to why I thought this was. At the time I had not one idea about it. But I thought about it for a while and offered that the most likely reason was that by comparison, people would see Guru Dev as a real 'guru'. After multiple hours of attempting to unlock the words of Guru Dev I still think this is true. But there is obviously another reason, of which I was then unaware. That the teachings, in places, are divergent to those of MMY. I tend to agree with you about mixing and matching generally, if one has a guru it is best to stick with them. But isn't it usual to be able to coexist with those in a parampara lineage of teachers? Actually, I suggest that it is extremely unlikely that the teachings of Guru Dev differed significantly from those of his teacher since they are certainly in complete conformity with those of Adi Shankaracharya. Whether or not one resonates with the published teachings of Guru Dev, in every aspect he was the epitomy of a guru, and the personification of Hinduism. To me he was the living embodiment of his own words which were frequently those of the scriptures he revered. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > And I have been greatly impressed by Pauls SBS research and > > > homepage. Great work. > > > > I've complimented Paul on this as well. It's clearly > > a labor of great love and a terrific resource. > > > > However, I wonder about the suggestion Paul made on > > alt.m.t that Maharishi has deliberately refrained > > from making Guru Dev's teaching available to TMers > > because MMY is afraid it would make him, MMY, look > > bad by comparison. > > > > I also wonder how much honor it pays to Guru Dev > > to use one's professed reverence for the master > > as a basis for attacking one of his most devoted > > followers, whatever one may think of that follower. > > I rarely read AMT and don't wish to dip into a discussion that I am > not part of and that probably has a larger context and set of arguments. > > However, my own observations: MMY from my earliest days of seeing him, > 67, and ever since, emphasised NOT reading and seeing other teachers. > To my surprise SSRS has made similar points, indicating it can cause > confusion. He even says this is the meaning of Jesus's comment "I am > the ONLY way" and is applicable to all teachers. If you follow a > teacher, they offer an integrated package, internally consistant, that > will get you to the "goal". While the parts of each program are > internally consistant, they are not inter-program exchangable and > consistant. They may conflict. Thus, on an itner-program basis, each > component is not necessarily internally consistant and a hodge-podge > chinese menu, a la carte menu of practices, drawn across various > teachers' offerings, is not productive, for the most part. Or at least > not "supported", not tested, and not "guaranteed". > > MMY once said that the Veda is so vast that any statement could be > made that is consistent with the Veda. As will be its opposite. Thus > it is not hard to see that taking one angle, an internally consistent > system can be created. And taking another angle, a different, but > valid system can also be created. Sort of parallel to Euclidean and > non-Euclidean geometries. Though each of them are "correct", their > parts are not interchangable. > > SBS is a different teacher that MMY. I don't think MMY ever claimed to > be teaching everything SBS taught. Indeed he has said he is not. MMY > has his own angle of teaching. And SBS did not teach exactly the same > package as his teacher Krishanand, I presume. And each disciple of SBS > does not teach the same package. > > The key thing that teachers pass down to their students is the full > light of Consciousness. Each student in the full light of > Consciousness, and given their propensities and inclinations (perhaps > as detailed by jyotish chart), their total training -- from all > teachers, their past life experience, the needs and karmas of their > students, the needs of the time, etc, derive an integrated, internally > consistent, sadhana that fits them and the times in which they teach. > It will not be the same as what other fully lit teachers will do, even > those who come from the same teacher. > > Just as SSRS, who honors MMY as his teacher, teaches his own > integrated package. Mixing and matching methods from SBS, MMY and SSRS > could be a messy and inefficient sadhana. As would mixing and matching > methods solely of MMY and SBS. That is why I belive MMY does not talk > about all the things SBS did and taught. All of that is
[FairfieldLife] Re: The facts about 'The Maharishi' biography
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > And I have been greatly impressed by Pauls SBS research and > > homepage. Great work. > > I've complimented Paul on this as well. It's clearly > a labor of great love and a terrific resource. > > However, I wonder about the suggestion Paul made on > alt.m.t that Maharishi has deliberately refrained > from making Guru Dev's teaching available to TMers > because MMY is afraid it would make him, MMY, look > bad by comparison. > > I also wonder how much honor it pays to Guru Dev > to use one's professed reverence for the master > as a basis for attacking one of his most devoted > followers, whatever one may think of that follower. I rarely read AMT and don't wish to dip into a discussion that I am not part of and that probably has a larger context and set of arguments. However, my own observations: MMY from my earliest days of seeing him, 67, and ever since, emphasised NOT reading and seeing other teachers. To my surprise SSRS has made similar points, indicating it can cause confusion. He even says this is the meaning of Jesus's comment "I am the ONLY way" and is applicable to all teachers. If you follow a teacher, they offer an integrated package, internally consistant, that will get you to the "goal". While the parts of each program are internally consistant, they are not inter-program exchangable and consistant. They may conflict. Thus, on an itner-program basis, each component is not necessarily internally consistant and a hodge-podge chinese menu, a la carte menu of practices, drawn across various teachers' offerings, is not productive, for the most part. Or at least not "supported", not tested, and not "guaranteed". MMY once said that the Veda is so vast that any statement could be made that is consistent with the Veda. As will be its opposite. Thus it is not hard to see that taking one angle, an internally consistent system can be created. And taking another angle, a different, but valid system can also be created. Sort of parallel to Euclidean and non-Euclidean geometries. Though each of them are "correct", their parts are not interchangable. SBS is a different teacher that MMY. I don't think MMY ever claimed to be teaching everything SBS taught. Indeed he has said he is not. MMY has his own angle of teaching. And SBS did not teach exactly the same package as his teacher Krishanand, I presume. And each disciple of SBS does not teach the same package. The key thing that teachers pass down to their students is the full light of Consciousness. Each student in the full light of Consciousness, and given their propensities and inclinations (perhaps as detailed by jyotish chart), their total training -- from all teachers, their past life experience, the needs and karmas of their students, the needs of the time, etc, derive an integrated, internally consistent, sadhana that fits them and the times in which they teach. It will not be the same as what other fully lit teachers will do, even those who come from the same teacher. Just as SSRS, who honors MMY as his teacher, teaches his own integrated package. Mixing and matching methods from SBS, MMY and SSRS could be a messy and inefficient sadhana. As would mixing and matching methods solely of MMY and SBS. That is why I belive MMY does not talk about all the things SBS did and taught. All of that is NOT MMY's program. And SBS would not mix and match, borowing from MMY if he were (explicitly) teaching today. Each teacher takes their own angle. So to observe that MMY is not teaching all that SBS taught, or is not revealing all things of SBS, does not seem odd or even a constraint. It would be inefficient to mix and match. As to other reasons why teachers focus on their angles, and not other teachers, everyone may have their theories. Paul may have his. You may have yours. Its all fun speculation. While perhaps as useful as gossip, its not a huge sin either, IMO. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The facts about 'The Maharishi' biography
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > And I have been greatly impressed by Pauls SBS research and > homepage. Great work. I've complimented Paul on this as well. It's clearly a labor of great love and a terrific resource. However, I wonder about the suggestion Paul made on alt.m.t that Maharishi has deliberately refrained from making Guru Dev's teaching available to TMers because MMY is afraid it would make him, MMY, look bad by comparison. I also wonder how much honor it pays to Guru Dev to use one's professed reverence for the master as a basis for attacking one of his most devoted followers, whatever one may think of that follower. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The facts about 'The Maharishi' biography
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > It is pretty clear that my biogaphy 'The Maharishi' was not welcomed > with open arms by the movement that attempts to control the public > perception of the Maharishi's image. Nevertheless, I get a lot of > emails from initiators congratulating me on the style and content and > sense of balance. To date I have had about half a dozen > communications cricical of the book, and this includes TMO lawyer > faxes before the book was read. I actually read the book. Bought it too -- for full price. I was not aware of it, until I saw it in a Santa Monica bookstore, when I was at the PacPal MAV center for panchakarma. Around 1995. Daily yucking it up with some Purusha who were visiting there. At that time, I was not a full timer or traditional TBer, but I was participating in several TMO programs, MAV, MJ, etc, at the time. As I recall the book, I liked it. I thought it nice to have an "outside" view of MMY, with some attempt at objectivity. Much better for mass consumption, and potential mass appreciation, I thought, than some gushing TMO biased in-house book. My only thought of "critique" of the book was that at times it appeared not to have the full story. Which was understandable, from it being, from what I supposed, to be written by an outsider journalist. The book was a good and reasonable start but perhaps not the last word -- was my impression. I was then intrigued and heartened when Paul started posting and participating in FFL and other news groups. I thought -- good -- he will be able to fill in more of the "gaps" now -- and I applauded him in my mind for "continued research". Its only recently that I have become aware that Paul was in Rishikesh, and initiated in London in the early 70's, and thus was more of an insider than I had thought (perhaps that was in the book -- I just don't recall it at the moment.) Though not an initiator, govornor, staff, full-timer type of insider where, most will acknowledge, some interesting views or the TMO and MMY emerge. And I have been greatly impressed by Pauls SBS research and homepage. Great work. Anyway, I personally find Paul to be making a positive contribution to the list. And I can't remember anything from his book that seemed unfair -- just behaps "incomplete" in some areas. As any single volume book-lengthed treatment must be. I have not followed all of the finer details of the current debate of he said ... etc. And don't really care to. I just wanted to positively endorse Paul's overall contribution to the list and his SBS work, from a one-time full-time initiator, governor, associate 108 and neer-do-well hanger-on'er during the latter 60's and most of the 70's. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The facts about 'The Maharishi' biography
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> It is pretty clear that my biogaphy 'The Maharishi' was not
> welcomed with open arms by the movement that attempts to control
> the public perception of the Maharishi's image. Nevertheless, I get
> a lot of emails from initiators congratulating me on the style and
> content and sense of balance. To date I have had about half a dozen
> communications cricical of the book, and this includes TMO lawyer
> faxes before the book was read.
>
> Yet there are members of this newsgroup who misquote the contents
> and refer disparagingly to its writing style, and (proudly?) admit
> to not reading the book, despite the fact I have placed a version
> on-line for over one and a half years.
Sorry, but I'm really quite tired of these willful
distortions from Paul (since he obviously is
including me among those he's referring to).
Speaking for myself: I've never quoted, let alone
misquoted, the contents of Paul's book. Nor have I
"referred disparagingly to its writing style." For
the record--and speaking as an editor--from what I've
seen of his writing style, I think he writes very
well.
I have not read the book ("proudly" or otherwise). A
year or so ago Paul left a post on alt.m.t complaining
that he had seen some negative comments on "chat
groups" about his book and protesting that he had no
agenda.
I took a quick look at a few chapters on the Web and
told him I thought the tone of what I'd read was
distinctly snarky.
I said he had a perfect right to be snarky about MMY,
but that it was disingenuous for him to claim he had
no agenda.
That is *all* I've ever said about the book.
My subsequent comments about Paul have all had to do
with his posts to this and several other forums.
I have questioned some of his interpretations in
those posts of MMY's actions, which have seemed to me
to be unfair and/or ill-founded, particularly his
unfavorable comparisons of MMY to Guru Dev.
Again, Paul has a perfect right to criticize MMY.
By the same token, though, if he presents his views
in a public forum, he is implicitly opening them to
discussion and comment.
But he seems to think that anyone who questions his
views about MMY on any grounds whatsoever must be
doing so because his views "threaten" their beliefs
(a canard echoed frequently by Barry). This is a
convenient way of dismissing informed criticism by
"demonizing" the critic--ironically, the same charge
he (along, again, with Barry) has leveled at the
critics themselves.
I have also charged Paul with hypocrisy for
continuing to pretend he is just presenting "the
facts" when the content of his posts is so
obviously filtered through an anti-MMY bias.
That is the *sole* basis for my personal criticism
of Paul--not that he doesn't like MMY, not that he
presents information that is unfavorable to MMY.
Nothing he has said has "threatened" my beliefs in
any way; my view of MMY's character is so neutral
as to be almost nonexistent. I don't feel I have
the grounds necessary to judge MMY's character.
As far as I'm concerned, MMY is a cipher.
I don't participate in either MMY-bashing or MMY-
sanctifying, but that doesn't mean I don't recognize
unjustified bashing or sanctifying, nor does it mean
I've somehow given up my right to call attention to
it when I see it.
> I blame the TMO to a large extent, in that it has always tried to
> demonize anything it cannot control, and so these 'defenders' have
> been trained, quite subliminally, to reject anything which has not
> been sanctified by the fusty dusty air of a TMO office.
If these "defenders" rejected anything which
has not been sanctified by the fusty dusty air of a TMO
office, they wouldn't be participating on these forums
in the first place. Guess the "training" hasn't been
quite as effective as Paul would have you believe.
> Incidentally, the biography is out in a new revised form in
> paperback, on the following link:-
> http://www.maharishibiography.com/
"Incidentally." Uh-huh. I'm trying to remember
where I heard the notion that creating controversy
about a book is a good way to increase its sales...
Paul should be thanking us "defenders." Hmm,
maybe the TMO won't be so pleased with us after all.
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