[FairfieldLife] Re: The vedic gods (WITZEL)
quot;Vedic Harappan" period, their "Sindhu-Sarasvati
civilisation."
Frawley complains that I let the Rgvedic poet Vasishtha lead
King (chieftain) Bharata out of Eastern Iran into India
which I have not written. His own American background leads
him to allege that I am "influenced by the story of how
biblical Moses led the Jews out of Egypt into Israel, ...
while the Bible remembers such an exodus, no such Vedic or
Puranic records exist." He forgets about Central Asian
reminiscences, worse, and that the biblical account is now
regarded by archaeologists as pure myth.
Similar scenarios hold for the Dravidian languages
especially if indeed related to the Nostratic ones
(Afroasiatic, Georgian, Uralic, Indo-European, Altaic) and
as most of their agricultural vocabulary seems closely
related to Sumerian (Blazek & Boisson, Archiv Orientalni 60,
1992, 16-37). To no avail, says Frawley: "(Witzel) regards
both peoples (Aryans and Dravidians) as equally primitive
and as not having even developed agriculture much less any
civilisation of their own." No tribe on this planet is
"primitive" a 19th century, colonialist's term strangely
surviving in this spiritualist's vocabulary: e.g., the Stone
Age Australians have a complicated social system, mythology
(dream time) and oral literature, just as the Old
Indo-Aryans or Dravidians. Therefore, I "equate the
sophisticated and advanced Vedic literature with the
compositions of uncivilised, primitive nomadic tribes" such
as those of the early Rgveda with that of the earliest
Indo-European or other tribes. Frawley has indeed repeatedly
offended Austro-Asiatic peoples such as the Munda or Khasi
(O.P. Aug. 20), disqualifying them (O.P., Feb. 11).
MICHAEL WITZEL
(www.fas.harvard.edu/{cedil}witzel/mwpage.htm)
From: richardatrwilliamsdotus
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 7:29 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The vedic gods
> Frawley thinks the Aryans came OUT OF INDIA and then
> invented all the Indo-European languages, up to and
> including Finnish!
>
> > Jason:
> > this Frawley is too vedic-centric and looks at other
> > evidence only if it fits the vedas. Scientific
> > evidence that does not fit the vedic world-view are
> > swept under the carpet.
>
> So, you're thinking that the Sanskrit speakers came
INTO India, and brought with them their religion,
language and their social systems. Not the other way
around, like Bill and Barry2 claim.
>
> > I guess not too different from the TM-org.
>
> There's no "TM-org", Jason.
>
> We don't exactly know what the beliefs were of the
Iranians who composed the Avesta. Apparently, they
believed in the comsumption of a decoction refered to
as 'Hoama', which was imbibed much like the Vedic Soma
and that they believed in the powers of the supernal
dieties of nature such as the sun, storm, dawn, etc.
>
> The Avesta and the Avestan religion was reformed by
Zoroaster and the beliefs of that system may have
drasticaly altered the original Avestan beliefs. The
system of Zoroaster has some striking parallels with
the Indian system of Sankhya dualism. It may be that
the Indian Sankhya system influenced Zoroaster to
alter his system to fit the Indian model!
>
> Read more:
>
> Out of India?
> http://www.rwilliams.us/archives/indians.htm
[FairfieldLife] Re: The vedic gods
> Frawley thinks the Aryans came OUT OF INDIA and then > invented all the Indo-European languages, up to and > including Finnish! > Jason: > this Frawley is too vedic-centric and looks at other > evidence only if it fits the vedas. Scientific > evidence that does not fit the vedic world-view are > swept under the carpet. > So, you're thinking that the Sanskrit speakers came INTO India, and brought with them their religion, language and their social systems. Not the other way around, like Bill and Barry2 claim. > I guess not too different from the TM-org. > There's no "TM-org", Jason. We don't exactly know what the beliefs were of the Iranians who composed the Avesta. Apparently, they believed in the comsumption of a decoction refered to as 'Hoama', which was imbibed much like the Vedic Soma and that they believed in the powers of the supernal dieties of nature such as the sun, storm, dawn, etc. The Avesta and the Avestan religion was reformed by Zoroaster and the beliefs of that system may have drasticaly altered the original Avestan beliefs. The system of Zoroaster has some striking parallels with the Indian system of Sankhya dualism. It may be that the Indian Sankhya system influenced Zoroaster to alter his system to fit the Indian model! Read more: Out of India? http://www.rwilliams.us/archives/indians.htm
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The vedic gods
On Dec 20, 2011, at 11:02 AM, zarzari_786 wrote: This is all from the hindutva fanatics. I agree with both of you. Even worse, the tamil nationalists, who would appropriate the whole Indian/Hindu/ Vedic culture for their purposes, speaking of the 'prana veda' You're just sore because you missed the tour boat to Kumari Kandam! Don't you mean pranava veda?
[FairfieldLife] Re: The vedic gods
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jason" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Your assertions do not agree with these ancient > > > > deity-bhakti teachings... > > > > > > zarzari: > > > Sure, there are some theistic Upanishads. But Hara > > > wasn't known in the Rig Veda. > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "richardatrwilliamsdotus" > wrote: > > > History in India begins with the historical Buddha > > (Shakya the Muni, 563 BC). Before that, there was no > > writing, so everything before the Ashokan Pillars is > > considered to be pre-history - the oral tradition. > > > > The language of the Indus Valley Civilization has not > > been deciphered. So, about all we have in the way of > > historical evidence is the edifice architecture such > > as stone inscriptions. The first known instance of > > writing occurs in India around around the time of the > > building of Sarnath. > > > > So, if there were any deity-bhakti teachings in South > > Asia they wouod have been mentioned by the Buddha. > > But in fact, the bhati teachings came much later > > during the Gupta Age, after the formation of the > > sects. > > > > Apparently there are no indigenous population in the > > Asian Subcontinent. If the inhabitants came from > > outside India, where and when did they come to India > > and why? > > > > Most reasonable people accept the timelines and > > chronologies of both Indian and western scholarship > > based on the historical evidence, not on any Indian > > traditions. > > > > For example, all the evidence supports the conclusion > > that the Vedas were composed after the invention of > > the spoked wheel and the use of the horse as a > > conveyance - there is no evidence for the use of > > either before 1700 B.C. in India. > > > > According to modern scholarship, based on historical > > evidence, the Aryan speakers entered into India > > around 1700 B.C., just as the Indus Civilization was > > declining. The evidence is linguistic, > > archaeological, and textual. > > > > Historians agree that there is no mention of the > > Indus Valley Civilization in the Vedas, therefore > > the Vedas must have been composed after 1700 B.C. > > While there is no mention of the Indus Valley > > Civilization, the Rig Veda mentions the use of iron, > > which was not smelted in India until after 1500 B.C. > > > > In contrast, according to Indian tradition, the > > Aryans were a race of people who spoke an eternal > > language called Sanskrit over a million years ago on > > Mt. Meru, before homo sapiens sapiens came out of > > Africa, before the dawn of civilization, before the > > invention of the wheel, before writing and the > > invention of agriculture. > > > > Frawley thinks the Aryans came OUT OF INDIA and then > > invented all the Indo-European languages, up to and > > including Finnish! > > > > Go figure. > > > > > Willy, this Frawley is too vedic-centric and looks at other > evidence only if it fits the vedas. Scientific evidence > that does not fit the vedic world-view are swept under the > carpet. > > > I guess not too different from the TM-org. [;)] > This is all from the hindutva fanatics. I agree with both of you. Even worse, the tamil nationalists, who would appropriate the whole Indian/Hindu/ Vedic culture for their purposes, speaking of the 'prana veda'
[FairfieldLife] Re: The vedic gods
> > > > > Your assertions do not agree with these ancient > > > deity-bhakti teachings... > > > > zarzari: > > Sure, there are some theistic Upanishads. But Hara > > wasn't known in the Rig Veda. > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "richardatrwilliamsdotus" wrote: > History in India begins with the historical Buddha > (Shakya the Muni, 563 BC). Before that, there was no > writing, so everything before the Ashokan Pillars is > considered to be pre-history - the oral tradition. > > The language of the Indus Valley Civilization has not > been deciphered. So, about all we have in the way of > historical evidence is the edifice architecture such > as stone inscriptions. The first known instance of > writing occurs in India around around the time of the > building of Sarnath. > > So, if there were any deity-bhakti teachings in South > Asia they wouod have been mentioned by the Buddha. > But in fact, the bhati teachings came much later > during the Gupta Age, after the formation of the > sects. > > Apparently there are no indigenous population in the > Asian Subcontinent. If the inhabitants came from > outside India, where and when did they come to India > and why? > > Most reasonable people accept the timelines and > chronologies of both Indian and western scholarship > based on the historical evidence, not on any Indian > traditions. > > For example, all the evidence supports the conclusion > that the Vedas were composed after the invention of > the spoked wheel and the use of the horse as a > conveyance - there is no evidence for the use of > either before 1700 B.C. in India. > > According to modern scholarship, based on historical > evidence, the Aryan speakers entered into India > around 1700 B.C., just as the Indus Civilization was > declining. The evidence is linguistic, > archaeological, and textual. > > Historians agree that there is no mention of the > Indus Valley Civilization in the Vedas, therefore > the Vedas must have been composed after 1700 B.C. > While there is no mention of the Indus Valley > Civilization, the Rig Veda mentions the use of iron, > which was not smelted in India until after 1500 B.C. > > In contrast, according to Indian tradition, the > Aryans were a race of people who spoke an eternal > language called Sanskrit over a million years ago on > Mt. Meru, before homo sapiens sapiens came out of > Africa, before the dawn of civilization, before the > invention of the wheel, before writing and the > invention of agriculture. > > Frawley thinks the Aryans came OUT OF INDIA and then > invented all the Indo-European languages, up to and > including Finnish! > > Go figure. > Willy, this Frawley is too vedic-centric and looks at other evidence only if it fits the vedas. Scientific evidence that does not fit the vedic world-view are swept under the carpet. I guess not too different from the TM-org. [;)]
[FairfieldLife] Re: The vedic gods
> > In Yahoo English that's Svetashvatara Upanishad. > > cardemaister: > Oh yeah: shvetaashvataropaniSat (the upanishad of > the white [shveta] mule [ashvatara]?) > Yes. Sitting near a white mule at a yoga camp. According to Chandrahar Sharma Adwaitia Vedanta is essentially re-statements of Vinjnanavada Buddhism - the school of 'Consciousness-only' founded by Arya Asanga and the Vasubandhu brothers - Yogacara. Excerpt from 'vijnApti matratA siddhi' by vasAabAndhu: "Pure consciousness is the only Reality. By its nature, it is Self-luminous." (XIII, 13). "Thus shaking off duality, he directly perceives the Absolute which is the unity underlying phenomena (dharmadAtu)." (VI, 7 Sharma, p. 112-113). Read more: Subject: gauDapAdIya on the phenomenology of consciousness. Author: Willytex Newsgroups: alt.meditation.transcendental Date: Dec 17, 2002 http://tinyurl.com/2umdf8x Work cited: 'A Critical Survey of Indian Philosophy' by Chandrahar Sharma, M.A., D. Phil., D. Litt., LL.B., Shastri, Dept. of Phil., Benares Hindu U. Rider, 1960 vimshAtika-Vrtti on kArikA 1, p. 114.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The vedic gods
> > Your assertions do not agree with these ancient > > deity-bhakti teachings... > > zarzari: > Sure, there are some theistic Upanishads. But Hara > wasn't known in the Rig Veda. > History in India begins with the historical Buddha (Shakya the Muni, 563 BC). Before that, there was no writing, so everything before the Ashokan Pillars is considered to be pre-history - the oral tradition. The language of the Indus Valley Civilization has not been deciphered. So, about all we have in the way of historical evidence is the edifice architecture such as stone inscriptions. The first known instance of writing occurs in India around around the time of the building of Sarnath. So, if there were any deity-bhakti teachings in South Asia they wouod have been mentioned by the Buddha. But in fact, the bhati teachings came much later during the Gupta Age, after the formation of the sects. Apparently there are no indigenous population in the Asian Subcontinent. If the inhabitants came from outside India, where and when did they come to India and why? Most reasonable people accept the timelines and chronologies of both Indian and western scholarship based on the historical evidence, not on any Indian traditions. For example, all the evidence supports the conclusion that the Vedas were composed after the invention of the spoked wheel and the use of the horse as a conveyance - there is no evidence for the use of either before 1700 B.C. in India. According to modern scholarship, based on historical evidence, the Aryan speakers entered into India around 1700 B.C., just as the Indus Civilization was declining. The evidence is linguistic, archaeological, and textual. Historians agree that there is no mention of the Indus Valley Civilization in the Vedas, therefore the Vedas must have been composed after 1700 B.C. While there is no mention of the Indus Valley Civilization, the Rig Veda mentions the use of iron, which was not smelted in India until after 1500 B.C. In contrast, according to Indian tradition, the Aryans were a race of people who spoke an eternal language called Sanskrit over a million years ago on Mt. Meru, before homo sapiens sapiens came out of Africa, before the dawn of civilization, before the invention of the wheel, before writing and the invention of agriculture. Frawley thinks the Aryans came OUT OF INDIA and then invented all the Indo-European languages, up to and including Finnish! Go figure.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The vedic gods
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "emptybill" wrote: > > In Yahoo English that's Svetashvatara Upanishad. > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "emptybill" wrote: > > > > Sorry but you need to go back and look at the ÅvetÄÅvatara > > Upanishad. > > You assertions do not agree with these ancient deity-bhakti teachings. Sure, there are some theistic Upanishads. But Hara wasn't known in the Rig Veda. > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, zarzari_786 no_reply@ wrote: > > > > > > The 'vedic gods' have been stated to be the origin of advaita > vedanta > > by some here. > > > > > > I do not believe in the origin of advaita in the Vedic gods, but > > rather a recast of Yogacara Buddhism. There is not much about vedic > gods > > in advaita. Advaita is based on the upanishads, who again, don't deal > > with ritual and gods, but with the knowledge portion of the vedas, > those > > hints and implications, that have nothing to do with gods. > > > > > > But talking about 'vedic gods', I believe researchers know now, that > > the whole canon of gods, and hymns to them is a later synthesis, that > > orignially there were simply different tribes, worshipping mainly one > or > > two gods (as their main deities), with a few other subdeities. Thus > > there were different 'highest gods' with different tribes. Later this > > was synthesized into collection of hymns, now known as the Rig Veda. > > > > > > It is commonly believed that pahao Akhenaten, was the first > > monotheist, substituting the egyptian canon of deities with the single > > God Aton, symbolized by the golden disc of the sun. He tried to > instill > > a spiritual revolution in egypt, but he failed, there was a counter > > revolution later, installing the old gods again. But it is thought > that > > we have here the origin of the jewish christian monotheism, as it is > > written in the Bible that Moses was educated in egypt. The famous > 'Hymn > > to Aton', the most prolific praise by Akhenaten, figures again in the > > Bible as psalm 104, only that the words for Aton, or the disc of the > sun > > are now substituted by the words Jawhe. > > > > > > It also know that Nefertiti, Akhenaten's wife belonged to the people > > of Mitanni, and that even Akhenaten's mother had Mitanni blood. The > > Mitanni were people originating in India, who had Surya, the Sun god > as > > their major object of worship. In fact certain lines in one of Rig > vedas > > hymns to Surya, are almost identical to the Hymn to Aton, and psalm > 104. > > You can read the whole story in this PDF > > > > > > > > > http://www.drishtikone.com/files/Akhenaten,%20Surya,%20and%20the%20Rigve\ > \ > > da.pdf > > > > > > Conclusion: Anybody trying to construct a major antagonism between > the > > Christian/Jewish God, and so-called 'Vedic gods' is doomed for > failure, > > as there is no such thing as a uniformity of vedic gods, and at least > > one of these vedic gods, so it seems is at the origin of > > christian/jewish monotheism. Characteristics of other prominent gods, > > like Mitra/varuna had definite cultural impact on the mesopotanean > area, > > and have thus indirectly influenced the whole theology of the Bible. > I' > > am not going any further from here, as everybody knows that the whole > > christian religion is a mishmash of roman and greek religious ideas, > > which have very little resemblence in the bible otherwise. > > > > > > Greetings from Santa to everybody! > > > > > >
[FairfieldLife] Re: The vedic gods
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "emptybill" wrote:
>
> In Yahoo English that's Svetashvatara Upanishad.
Oh yeah: shvetaashvataropaniSat (the upanishad of the white
[shveta] mule [ashvatara]?)
zveta [cf. Russian svetliy -- card] a. white, bright. m. white horse, N. of
a serpent-demon etc.
azvataram., {I3} mule.
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "emptybill" wrote:
> >
> > Sorry but you need to go back and look at the ÅvetÄÅvatara
> > Upanishad.
> > You assertions do not agree with these ancient deity-bhakti teachings.
> >
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, zarzari_786 no_reply@ wrote:
> > >
> > > The 'vedic gods' have been stated to be the origin of advaita
> vedanta
> > by some here.
> > >
> > > I do not believe in the origin of advaita in the Vedic gods, but
> > rather a recast of Yogacara Buddhism. There is not much about vedic
> gods
> > in advaita. Advaita is based on the upanishads, who again, don't deal
> > with ritual and gods, but with the knowledge portion of the vedas,
> those
> > hints and implications, that have nothing to do with gods.
> > >
> > > But talking about 'vedic gods', I believe researchers know now, that
> > the whole canon of gods, and hymns to them is a later synthesis, that
> > orignially there were simply different tribes, worshipping mainly one
> or
> > two gods (as their main deities), with a few other subdeities. Thus
> > there were different 'highest gods' with different tribes. Later this
> > was synthesized into collection of hymns, now known as the Rig Veda.
> > >
> > > It is commonly believed that pahao Akhenaten, was the first
> > monotheist, substituting the egyptian canon of deities with the single
> > God Aton, symbolized by the golden disc of the sun. He tried to
> instill
> > a spiritual revolution in egypt, but he failed, there was a counter
> > revolution later, installing the old gods again. But it is thought
> that
> > we have here the origin of the jewish christian monotheism, as it is
> > written in the Bible that Moses was educated in egypt. The famous
> 'Hymn
> > to Aton', the most prolific praise by Akhenaten, figures again in the
> > Bible as psalm 104, only that the words for Aton, or the disc of the
> sun
> > are now substituted by the words Jawhe.
> > >
> > > It also know that Nefertiti, Akhenaten's wife belonged to the people
> > of Mitanni, and that even Akhenaten's mother had Mitanni blood. The
> > Mitanni were people originating in India, who had Surya, the Sun god
> as
> > their major object of worship. In fact certain lines in one of Rig
> vedas
> > hymns to Surya, are almost identical to the Hymn to Aton, and psalm
> 104.
> > You can read the whole story in this PDF
> > >
> > >
> >
> http://www.drishtikone.com/files/Akhenaten,%20Surya,%20and%20the%20Rigve\
> \
> > da.pdf
> > >
> > > Conclusion: Anybody trying to construct a major antagonism between
> the
> > Christian/Jewish God, and so-called 'Vedic gods' is doomed for
> failure,
> > as there is no such thing as a uniformity of vedic gods, and at least
> > one of these vedic gods, so it seems is at the origin of
> > christian/jewish monotheism. Characteristics of other prominent gods,
> > like Mitra/varuna had definite cultural impact on the mesopotanean
> area,
> > and have thus indirectly influenced the whole theology of the Bible.
> I'
> > am not going any further from here, as everybody knows that the whole
> > christian religion is a mishmash of roman and greek religious ideas,
> > which have very little resemblence in the bible otherwise.
> > >
> > > Greetings from Santa to everybody!
> > >
> >
>
[FairfieldLife] Re: The vedic gods
In Yahoo English that's Svetashvatara Upanishad. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "emptybill" wrote: > > Sorry but you need to go back and look at the ÅvetÄÅvatara > Upanishad. > You assertions do not agree with these ancient deity-bhakti teachings. > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, zarzari_786 no_reply@ wrote: > > > > The 'vedic gods' have been stated to be the origin of advaita vedanta > by some here. > > > > I do not believe in the origin of advaita in the Vedic gods, but > rather a recast of Yogacara Buddhism. There is not much about vedic gods > in advaita. Advaita is based on the upanishads, who again, don't deal > with ritual and gods, but with the knowledge portion of the vedas, those > hints and implications, that have nothing to do with gods. > > > > But talking about 'vedic gods', I believe researchers know now, that > the whole canon of gods, and hymns to them is a later synthesis, that > orignially there were simply different tribes, worshipping mainly one or > two gods (as their main deities), with a few other subdeities. Thus > there were different 'highest gods' with different tribes. Later this > was synthesized into collection of hymns, now known as the Rig Veda. > > > > It is commonly believed that pahao Akhenaten, was the first > monotheist, substituting the egyptian canon of deities with the single > God Aton, symbolized by the golden disc of the sun. He tried to instill > a spiritual revolution in egypt, but he failed, there was a counter > revolution later, installing the old gods again. But it is thought that > we have here the origin of the jewish christian monotheism, as it is > written in the Bible that Moses was educated in egypt. The famous 'Hymn > to Aton', the most prolific praise by Akhenaten, figures again in the > Bible as psalm 104, only that the words for Aton, or the disc of the sun > are now substituted by the words Jawhe. > > > > It also know that Nefertiti, Akhenaten's wife belonged to the people > of Mitanni, and that even Akhenaten's mother had Mitanni blood. The > Mitanni were people originating in India, who had Surya, the Sun god as > their major object of worship. In fact certain lines in one of Rig vedas > hymns to Surya, are almost identical to the Hymn to Aton, and psalm 104. > You can read the whole story in this PDF > > > > > http://www.drishtikone.com/files/Akhenaten,%20Surya,%20and%20the%20Rigve\ \ > da.pdf > > > > Conclusion: Anybody trying to construct a major antagonism between the > Christian/Jewish God, and so-called 'Vedic gods' is doomed for failure, > as there is no such thing as a uniformity of vedic gods, and at least > one of these vedic gods, so it seems is at the origin of > christian/jewish monotheism. Characteristics of other prominent gods, > like Mitra/varuna had definite cultural impact on the mesopotanean area, > and have thus indirectly influenced the whole theology of the Bible. I' > am not going any further from here, as everybody knows that the whole > christian religion is a mishmash of roman and greek religious ideas, > which have very little resemblence in the bible otherwise. > > > > Greetings from Santa to everybody! > > >
[FairfieldLife] Re: The vedic gods
Sorry but you need to go back and look at the ÅvetÄÅvatara Upanishad. You assertions do not agree with these ancient deity-bhakti teachings. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, zarzari_786 wrote: > > The 'vedic gods' have been stated to be the origin of advaita vedanta by some here. > > I do not believe in the origin of advaita in the Vedic gods, but rather a recast of Yogacara Buddhism. There is not much about vedic gods in advaita. Advaita is based on the upanishads, who again, don't deal with ritual and gods, but with the knowledge portion of the vedas, those hints and implications, that have nothing to do with gods. > > But talking about 'vedic gods', I believe researchers know now, that the whole canon of gods, and hymns to them is a later synthesis, that orignially there were simply different tribes, worshipping mainly one or two gods (as their main deities), with a few other subdeities. Thus there were different 'highest gods' with different tribes. Later this was synthesized into collection of hymns, now known as the Rig Veda. > > It is commonly believed that pahao Akhenaten, was the first monotheist, substituting the egyptian canon of deities with the single God Aton, symbolized by the golden disc of the sun. He tried to instill a spiritual revolution in egypt, but he failed, there was a counter revolution later, installing the old gods again. But it is thought that we have here the origin of the jewish christian monotheism, as it is written in the Bible that Moses was educated in egypt. The famous 'Hymn to Aton', the most prolific praise by Akhenaten, figures again in the Bible as psalm 104, only that the words for Aton, or the disc of the sun are now substituted by the words Jawhe. > > It also know that Nefertiti, Akhenaten's wife belonged to the people of Mitanni, and that even Akhenaten's mother had Mitanni blood. The Mitanni were people originating in India, who had Surya, the Sun god as their major object of worship. In fact certain lines in one of Rig vedas hymns to Surya, are almost identical to the Hymn to Aton, and psalm 104. You can read the whole story in this PDF > > http://www.drishtikone.com/files/Akhenaten,%20Surya,%20and%20the%20Rigve\ da.pdf > > Conclusion: Anybody trying to construct a major antagonism between the Christian/Jewish God, and so-called 'Vedic gods' is doomed for failure, as there is no such thing as a uniformity of vedic gods, and at least one of these vedic gods, so it seems is at the origin of christian/jewish monotheism. Characteristics of other prominent gods, like Mitra/varuna had definite cultural impact on the mesopotanean area, and have thus indirectly influenced the whole theology of the Bible. I' am not going any further from here, as everybody knows that the whole christian religion is a mishmash of roman and greek religious ideas, which have very little resemblence in the bible otherwise. > > Greetings from Santa to everybody! >
[FairfieldLife] Re: The vedic gods
zarzari: > I do not believe in the origin of advaita in > the Vedic gods, but rather a recast of Yogacara > Buddhism... > It may be that Shankara was in fact, opposed to classical yoga and to tantric yoga practice. If Shankara supported tantric ritual practice and the practice of yoga as a means to liberation, he would have had a perfect opportunity to do so in his sub-commentary to Vyasa's Vivarana on Patanjali's Yoga Sutra. The fact is that Shankara did not even mention tantric practice in his commentary on Mandukhya Upanishad. However, even a casual reader of Shankara's work would conclude that he was very much influenced by Vajrayana Buddhism. Many scholars have gone so far as to label Shankar a "crypto-Buddhist". It is also a fact that most of the works supposedly authored by Shankara consist of a refutation of Madhyamika Buddhism. Scholars have pointed out that in one instance, Shankara quotes directly from the famous dialectition Dharmakirti. That Dharmakirti lived and taught in the seventh century A.D. is confirmed by that famous visitor and translator Huan Tsang, who came over from China during that period. Based on a reading of the texts, it is also apparent to most readers that the Paramguru of Shankara was greatly influenced by Mahayana Buddhism. Gaudapadacharya's adoption of the "appearance only" doctrine is clear evidence that Adwaita is a close cousin to the Yogacara "consciousness only" school of Vasubandhu and his brother Asanga. In Gauda's commentary or karika on Madukhya he specifically mentions the appearance only doctrine and supports his conclusions on the idea of the "turiya" - a clear reference to the Nirvana taught by Shakya the Muni in the fourth century B.C. Thus it is clear that, far from being a polemic AGAINST the Yogacara teaching, Shankara's Adwaita in fact, seeks to preserve all that is good in the Vijnanavada!
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Vedic Gods as Figures of Biology
> > This sounds like the photocopy of a book I saw at Fiuggi Fonte, Italy > > in late April of 1972 during the so-called '2000' course. > That's Tony Abu-Nader's book, I believe. Much of the illustrations for the > book > or online, illustrating the Vedic Science/Sanskrit portion of the site. So Tony Nader has a time machine? That would be even more significant than Veda in human physiology. The book "Vedic Gods as Figures of Biology" was known about in the TMO in the early '70s, so it sounds like bits of it got passed around and then resurfaced and re-worked by the purusha guys developing Tony Nader's ideas for him. Great intellect eh!
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Vedic Gods as Figures of Biology
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, billy jim wrote: > > This sounds like the photocopy of a book I saw at Fiuggi Fonte, Italy > in late April of 1972 during the so-called '2000' course. > MMY had the SIMS dogs set up an SCI administration office in one > of the hotels along with a few books - a sort of starter library. Somehow > I got word of this text showing correspondences between Vedic > Devas and human anatomy/physiology. I went to that office and > they actually let me read the text, although they wouldn't let me > photocopy it or take it out of the office. They did let me take notes and > if I remember correctly those are probably in a footnote on my course > notes from one of MMY's lectures at that time. > > How weird. The bardo of this life is stranger than a David Lynch film. > om hrih strih vikrtaanana hum phat. > That's Tony Abu-Nader's book, I believe. Much of the illustrations for the book or online, illustrating the Vedic Science/Sanskrit portion of the site. L
