[FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha at the Gas Pump - 158. Fr. Thomas Keating
Yeah, I got to go up to Spencer Mass and be part of checking the brothers meditations and giving advanced lectures on meditation and TM back in the days. Was an exciting time in American spirituality. Those were heady times in TM and also watching the start of the whole centering prayer movement. Church Monasticism was pretty stuck up and barbaric in its ways but changing then because of openings in the larger church waged by Merton and others earlier. There was an extraordinary group of particular brothers around Fr. Keating within the monastery there who were highly knowledgeable and excited from looking at writings of Mysticism within and then outside of their own traditions. They could see the descriptions and that they did not have the practices needed to achieve the experiences so they went specifically looking surveying what was out there in the spiritual practice parketplace. It was a heady time.TM itself was evidently too proprietary and confined for them to be helpful working with inside their church. But the training and the effortless aspect of TM became central to what they picked up with, co-opted and went on with in to something that could be taught to parishioners more universally. They've had a huge and successful impact on American spirituality even spilling over in to Protestant faiths with their instruction. That is history and Fr. Keating was one of the men of it. He and the guys he was with took the ball and really ran with it. As a team they've played a good game. -Buck in the Dome --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann wrote: What an extraordinary man. How wonderful that you interviewed him. He was a huge part in the healing process for many of my friends when they moved forward from their time in the context with Robin back in the mid 1980's. I spent time at the monastery as well, a stunning place in Snowmass Colorado. Father Keating was a vital part in the transition for these people from pain and suffering to becoming productive and healthy individuals again. I will watch this interview with great interest. I have not seen Keating for 26 years. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer wrote: New post on Buddha at the Gas Pump 158. Fr. Thomas Keating by Rick Fr. Thomas Keating is a founding member and the spiritual guide of Contemplative Outreach, LTD. He has served on Contemplative Outreach's Board of Trustees since the organization's beginning and is currently serving as the Chairman of the Board. Fr. Keating is one of the principal architects and teachers of the Christian contemplative prayer movement and, in many ways, Contemplative Outreach is a manifestation of his longtime desire to contribute to the recovery of the contemplative dimension of Christianity. Fr. Keating's interest in contemplative prayer began during his freshman year at Yale University in 1940 when he became aware of the Church's history and of the writings of Christian mystics. Prompted by these studies and time spent in prayer and meditation, he experienced a profound realization that, on a spiritual level, the Scriptures call people to a personal relationship with God. Fr. Keating took this call to heart. He transferred to Fordham University in New York and, while waiting to be drafted for service in World War II, he received a deferment to enter seminary. Shortly after graduating from an accelerated program at Fordham, Fr. Keating entered an austere monastic community of the Trappist Order in Valley Falls, Rhode Island in January of 1944, at the age of 20. He was ordained a priest in June of 1949. In March of 1950 the monastery in Valley Falls burned down and, as a result, the community moved to Spencer, Massachusetts. Shortly after the move, Fr. Keating became ill with a lung condition and was put into isolation in the city hospital of Worcester, Massachusetts for nine weeks. After returning to the monastery, he stayed in the infirmary for two years. Fr. Keating was sent to Snowmass, Colorado in April of 1958 to help start a new monastic community called St. Benedict's. He remained in Snowmass until 1961, when he was elected abbot of St. Joseph's in Spencer, prompting his move back to Massachusetts. He served as abbot of St. Joseph's for twenty years until he retired in 1981 and returned to Snowmass, where he still resides today. During Fr. Keating's term as abbot at St. Joseph's and in response to the reforms of Vatican II, he invited teachers from the East to the monastery. As a result of this exposure to Eastern spiritual traditions, Fr. Keating and several of the monks at St. Joseph's were led to develop the modern form of Christian contemplative prayer called Centering Prayer. Fr. Keating was a central
[FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha at the Gas Pump - 158. Fr. Thomas Keating
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, navashok wrote: I just finished reading Bill Howell's CULT, I know it took me long time, but I did not read it continuously, it wasn't on the top of my agenda. I must say that I was very touched by the last chapter, before the epilogue, called 'Desert' (p. 308), I was touched by the reunion of Caitlin and Matthew especially, the story how they came back to life from believing to be 'evil' or without human soul is heartbreaking. From all of what I have read, Bill Howell seems to be sincerely narrating things as they were happening, his motivation does not in any way seem to be revenge or anger, but to help people get out of similar desperate situations. I also believe that the conclusions he draws make sense. The book has its lengths, for somebody not being part of it, it goes a bit too much into details, telling every bodies story more or less, but that last chapter before the epilogue, 'UNGRASPING THE LIGHT THAT CASTS SHADOWS Chapter 19 Desert' is just superb, it brought me to tears. It is just amazing what kind of drama is revealed in the book, going much beyond what we knew here, but I won't get into it, I don't want to stir up all the mud here once again. I hope everybody gets his peace about it finally, and of course Ann, you have been part of it, so you know the story much better than I do. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann wrote: What an extraordinary man. How wonderful that you interviewed him. He was a huge part in the healing process for many of my friends when they moved forward from their time in the context with Robin back in the mid 1980's. I spent time at the monastery as well, a stunning place in Snowmass Colorado. Father Keating was a vital part in the transition for these people from pain and suffering to becoming productive and healthy individuals again. I will watch this interview with great interest. I have not seen Keating for 26 years. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer wrote: New post on Buddha at the Gas Pump 158. Fr. Thomas Keating by Rick Fr. Thomas Keating is a founding member and the spiritual guide of Contemplative Outreach, LTD. He has served on Contemplative Outreach's Board of Trustees since the organization's beginning and is currently serving as the Chairman of the Board. Fr. Keating is one of the principal architects and teachers of the Christian contemplative prayer movement and, in many ways, Contemplative Outreach is a manifestation of his longtime desire to contribute to the recovery of the contemplative dimension of Christianity. Fr. Keating's interest in contemplative prayer began during his freshman year at Yale University in 1940 when he became aware of the Church's history and of the writings of Christian mystics. Prompted by these studies and time spent in prayer and meditation, he experienced a profound realization that, on a spiritual level, the Scriptures call people to a personal relationship with God. Fr. Keating took this call to heart. He transferred to Fordham University in New York and, while waiting to be drafted for service in World War II, he received a deferment to enter seminary. Shortly after graduating from an accelerated program at Fordham, Fr. Keating entered an austere monastic community of the Trappist Order in Valley Falls, Rhode Island in January of 1944, at the age of 20. He was ordained a priest in June of 1949. In March of 1950 the monastery in Valley Falls burned down and, as a result, the community moved to Spencer, Massachusetts. Shortly after the move, Fr. Keating became ill with a lung condition and was put into isolation in the city hospital of Worcester, Massachusetts for nine weeks. After returning to the monastery, he stayed in the infirmary for two years. Fr. Keating was sent to Snowmass, Colorado in April of 1958 to help start a new monastic community called St. Benedict's. He remained in Snowmass until 1961, when he was elected abbot of St. Joseph's in Spencer, prompting his move back to Massachusetts. He served as abbot of St. Joseph's for twenty years until he retired in 1981 and returned to Snowmass, where he still resides today. During Fr. Keating's term as abbot at St. Joseph's and in response to the reforms of Vatican II, he invited teachers from the East to the monastery. As a result of this exposure to Eastern spiritual traditions, Fr. Keating and several of the monks at St. Joseph's were led to develop the modern form of Christian contemplative prayer called Centering Prayer. Fr. Keating was a central figure in the initiation of the Centering Prayer movement. He offered Centering Prayer workshops and retreats to clergy and laypeople and authored articles and books on the method and fruits of Centering Prayer. In 1983, he presented a two-week intensive Centering Prayer retreat at the Lama Foundation in San Cristabol, New
[FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha at the Gas Pump - 158. Fr. Thomas Keating
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray27 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, navashok wrote: I just finished reading Bill Howell's CULT, I know it took me long time, but I did not read it continuously, it wasn't on the top of my agenda. I must say that I was very touched by the last chapter, before the epilogue, called 'Desert' (p. 308), I was touched by the reunion of Caitlin and Matthew especially, the story how they came back to life from believing to be 'evil' or without human soul is heartbreaking. Now THAT is funny. :-) The Twilight series as cult. I always thought it was a polemic on abstinence. Then again, many cults go in for that, too.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha at the Gas Pump - 158. Fr. Thomas Keating
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: Yeah, I got to go up to Spencer Mass and be part of checking the brothers meditations and giving advanced lectures on meditation and TM back in the days. Was an exciting time in American spirituality. Those were heady times in TM and also watching the start of the whole centering prayer movement. Church Monasticism was pretty stuck up and barbaric in its ways but changing then because of openings in the larger church waged by Merton and others earlier. There was an extraordinary group of particular brothers around Fr. Keating within the monastery there who were highly knowledgeable and excited from looking at writings of Mysticism within and then outside of their own traditions. They could see the descriptions and that they did not have the practices needed to achieve the experiences so they went specifically looking surveying what was out there in the spiritual practice parketplace. It was a heady time.TM itself was evidently too proprietary and confined for them to be helpful working with inside their church. But the training and the effortless aspect of TM became central to what they picked up with, co-opted and went on with in to something that could be taught to parishioners more universally. They've had a huge and successful impact on American spirituality even spilling over in to Protestant faiths with their instruction. That is history and Fr. Keating was one of the men of it. He and the guys he was with took the ball and really ran with it. As a team they've played a good game. Yes, they did. The monastery out in Snowmass was sublime. The monks working the farm and tending the sheep by day in their jeans and flannel shirts and then attending services/mass in their monastic garb was wonderful to see. Witnessing the devotions and chanting in the little chapel were some of the most spiritual and deep experiences I have ever had. They seemed to have combined something sacredly ancient with something very relevant to the present for me back in 1987-88. And the sense of community and brotherhood was very strong there along with the depth of commitment to God, to spiritual and personal growth and to deep inner and outer devotion to Him and to his creation. -Buck in the Dome --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann wrote: What an extraordinary man. How wonderful that you interviewed him. He was a huge part in the healing process for many of my friends when they moved forward from their time in the context with Robin back in the mid 1980's. I spent time at the monastery as well, a stunning place in Snowmass Colorado. Father Keating was a vital part in the transition for these people from pain and suffering to becoming productive and healthy individuals again. I will watch this interview with great interest. I have not seen Keating for 26 years. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer wrote: New post on Buddha at the Gas Pump 158. Fr. Thomas Keating by Rick Fr. Thomas Keating is a founding member and the spiritual guide of Contemplative Outreach, LTD. He has served on Contemplative Outreach's Board of Trustees since the organization's beginning and is currently serving as the Chairman of the Board. Fr. Keating is one of the principal architects and teachers of the Christian contemplative prayer movement and, in many ways, Contemplative Outreach is a manifestation of his longtime desire to contribute to the recovery of the contemplative dimension of Christianity. Fr. Keating's interest in contemplative prayer began during his freshman year at Yale University in 1940 when he became aware of the Church's history and of the writings of Christian mystics. Prompted by these studies and time spent in prayer and meditation, he experienced a profound realization that, on a spiritual level, the Scriptures call people to a personal relationship with God. Fr. Keating took this call to heart. He transferred to Fordham University in New York and, while waiting to be drafted for service in World War II, he received a deferment to enter seminary. Shortly after graduating from an accelerated program at Fordham, Fr. Keating entered an austere monastic community of the Trappist Order in Valley Falls, Rhode Island in January of 1944, at the age of 20. He was ordained a priest in June of 1949. In March of 1950 the monastery in Valley Falls burned down and, as a result, the community moved to Spencer, Massachusetts. Shortly after the move, Fr. Keating became ill with a lung condition and was put into isolation in the city hospital of Worcester, Massachusetts for nine weeks. After returning to the monastery, he stayed in the
[FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha at the Gas Pump - 158. Fr. Thomas Keating
What an extraordinary man. How wonderful that you interviewed him. He was a huge part in the healing process for many of my friends when they moved forward from their time in the context with Robin back in the mid 1980's. I spent time at the monastery as well, a stunning place in Snowmass Colorado. Father Keating was a vital part in the transition for these people from pain and suffering to becoming productive and healthy individuals again. I will watch this interview with great interest. I have not seen Keating for 26 years. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer wrote: New post on Buddha at the Gas Pump 158. Fr. Thomas Keating by Rick Fr. Thomas Keating is a founding member and the spiritual guide of Contemplative Outreach, LTD. He has served on Contemplative Outreach's Board of Trustees since the organization's beginning and is currently serving as the Chairman of the Board. Fr. Keating is one of the principal architects and teachers of the Christian contemplative prayer movement and, in many ways, Contemplative Outreach is a manifestation of his longtime desire to contribute to the recovery of the contemplative dimension of Christianity. Fr. Keating's interest in contemplative prayer began during his freshman year at Yale University in 1940 when he became aware of the Church's history and of the writings of Christian mystics. Prompted by these studies and time spent in prayer and meditation, he experienced a profound realization that, on a spiritual level, the Scriptures call people to a personal relationship with God. Fr. Keating took this call to heart. He transferred to Fordham University in New York and, while waiting to be drafted for service in World War II, he received a deferment to enter seminary. Shortly after graduating from an accelerated program at Fordham, Fr. Keating entered an austere monastic community of the Trappist Order in Valley Falls, Rhode Island in January of 1944, at the age of 20. He was ordained a priest in June of 1949. In March of 1950 the monastery in Valley Falls burned down and, as a result, the community moved to Spencer, Massachusetts. Shortly after the move, Fr. Keating became ill with a lung condition and was put into isolation in the city hospital of Worcester, Massachusetts for nine weeks. After returning to the monastery, he stayed in the infirmary for two years. Fr. Keating was sent to Snowmass, Colorado in April of 1958 to help start a new monastic community called St. Benedict's. He remained in Snowmass until 1961, when he was elected abbot of St. Joseph's in Spencer, prompting his move back to Massachusetts. He served as abbot of St. Joseph's for twenty years until he retired in 1981 and returned to Snowmass, where he still resides today. During Fr. Keating's term as abbot at St. Joseph's and in response to the reforms of Vatican II, he invited teachers from the East to the monastery. As a result of this exposure to Eastern spiritual traditions, Fr. Keating and several of the monks at St. Joseph's were led to develop the modern form of Christian contemplative prayer called Centering Prayer. Fr. Keating was a central figure in the initiation of the Centering Prayer movement. He offered Centering Prayer workshops and retreats to clergy and laypeople and authored articles and books on the method and fruits of Centering Prayer. In 1983, he presented a two-week intensive Centering Prayer retreat at the Lama Foundation in San Cristabol, New Mexico, which proved to be a watershed event. Many of the people prominent in the Centering Prayer movement today attended this retreat. Contemplative Outreach was created in 1984 to support the growing spiritual network of Centering Prayer practitioners. Fr. Keating became the community's president in 1985, a position he held until 1999. Fr. Keating is an internationally renowned theologian and an accomplished author. He has traveled the world to speak with laypeople and communities about contemplative Christian practices and the psychology of the spiritual journey, which is the subject of his Spiritual Journey video and DVD series. Since the reforms of Vatican II, Fr. Keating has been a core participant in and supporter of interreligious dialogue. He helped found the Snowmass Interreligious Conference, which had its first meeting in the fall of 1983 and continues to meet each spring. Fr. Keating also is a past president of the Temple of Understanding and of the Monastic Interreligious Dialogue. Perhaps the biggest testament to Fr. Keating's dedication to reviving Christian contemplative practices is his choice to live a busy, public life instead of the quiet, monastic life for which he entered the monastery. Fr. Keating's life is lived in the service of sharing the gifts God gave him with others. Publications:
[FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha and Meditation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: On Dec 5, 2011, at 11:04 PM, sparaig wrote: Not every buddhist would agree that it is a scam, of course... You can fool some of the people, some of the time has been the sales strategy of the TMO for decades. Shrug, that includes Buddhist in asian countries, of course, who are far less knowledgeable than you are, apparently. L.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha and Meditation
On Dec 5, 2011, at 11:04 PM, sparaig wrote: Not every buddhist would agree that it is a scam, of course... You can fool some of the people, some of the time has been the sales strategy of the TMO for decades.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha and Meditation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shukra69 shukra69@... wrote: http://oaks.nvg.org/tm-buddhism.html Vaj meltdown in 3... 2... 1
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha and Meditation
LOL. This is an old TM scam, nothing new here, keep moving. Sent from my iPad On Dec 5, 2011, at 9:10 PM, Alex Stanley j_alexander_stan...@yahoo.com wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shukra69 shukra69@... wrote: http://oaks.nvg.org/tm-buddhism.html Vaj meltdown in 3... 2... 1
[FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha and Meditation
Not every buddhist would agree that it is a scam, of course... L. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: LOL. This is an old TM scam, nothing new here, keep moving. Sent from my iPad On Dec 5, 2011, at 9:10 PM, Alex Stanley j_alexander_stanley@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shukra69 shukra69@ wrote: http://oaks.nvg.org/tm-buddhism.html Vaj meltdown in 3... 2... 1
[FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha and Meditation
This article is a sales job, not a real analysis of the similarities and dissimilarities. There are different styles of Buddhist meditation, from Mahayana shamata-style of outright concentration practice to effortless breath awareness meditations. One stream goes from Satipattana Vipassana to Mahamudra to Dzogchen. Another stream is Rinzai great questioning/great doubt vs Soto Shikan Taza (Just Sitting). Another is a combination of Pure Land Great Faith recitation and no object contemplation of Chinese Chan Mo-Zhao Silent Illumination style. Then there is Tibetan Tantric Deity-Mandala meditation: Kye-Rim/Dzog-Rim. Simplistic articles just don't advance anyone's understanding. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@... wrote: Not every buddhist would agree that it is a scam, of course... L. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: LOL. This is an old TM scam, nothing new here, keep moving. Sent from my iPad On Dec 5, 2011, at 9:10 PM, Alex Stanley j_alexander_stanley@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shukra69 shukra69@ wrote: http://oaks.nvg.org/tm-buddhism.html Vaj meltdown in 3... 2... 1
[FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha smoking next to Gas Pump
Teachers come and go but the eternal is. Inside they are doing the right thing as a group, to facilitate the spiritual practice and protect that. not to mention the strong daily practice which all agree is vital --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@... wrote: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Vaj Sent: Monday, February 21, 2011 4:35 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Buddha smoking next to Gas Pump I interviewed him January 10th, and it looks like this all broke about 3 weeks later. Our interview got interrupted and we had set a date for a 2nd one, but he mysteriously had to postpone. Now I know why. I emailed him to say that if and when he wants to do that interview, I'll deal with this topic with sensitivity and compassion, as I'm well aware that the same thing could have happened to me or just about anyone else. That doesn't justify the behavior, but that's the reality of the situation. Kaboom: Big Mind guru Genpo Merzel disrobes. A Letter from Kanzeon Zen Center Concerning Genpo Merzel by Al As many of you have heard, Genpo Merzel of Kanzeon Zen Center and Big Mind disrobed recently on the revelation that he had been having an affair with one of his senior students and Dharma heirs. You can read about it on http://sweepingzen.com/2011/02/07/dennis-genpo-merzel-disrobes-as-a-zen-pri est/ Sweeping Zen as well as other places. I have refrained from comment so far as so many others were doing so and because I felt that, by and large, Genpo was doing the right thing by acknowledging his actions, disrobing as a priest, resigning as a White Plum Asanga elder, and going into therapy. A lot of people have written about this issue and 44 American Zen Teachers sent their http://monkeymindonline.blogspot.com/2011/02/zen-teachers-respond-to-genpo- merzel.html advice to Kanzeon the other day. Today, I received this letter from Kanzeon, reproduced in its entirety below (disclosure: a few years ago, I paid for an online subscription to Kanzeon's archive and updates for video and audio by its various teachers so I'm on their mailing list). It seems like they are having enough issues right now that people might do well to give them a little space. The letter: Dear Kanzeon Zen Center Members and Friends, As you are no doubt aware, the situation at Kanzeon has been the subject of a great deal of conversation on the internet and elsewhere, including an open Letter of Recommendation to Kanzeon Zen Center from 44 American Zen Teachers, which was sent to us directly by Kyogen Carlson of the Dharma Rain Zen Center and posted two days ago on the Sweeping Zen website. Attached is the Kanzeon Board's response to that letter, which we are sending today to Roshi Gerry Shishin Wick, President, of the White Plum Asanga, and to the American Zen Teachers Association. We trust that they will post our letter on their websites and pass it on to their members. We would also like to remind you of the healing circle meeting tonight in the Zendo at Kanzeon at 7:30. These meetings will not be broadcast or recorded. Once again, we invite you to speak and listen from your heart, and even if you have not been involved in the conversation until now, to join us and participate actively in the healing and rebuilding of our sangha. Sincerely, The Kanzeon Board * To Members of the American Zen Teachers and White Plum Asanga: As members of the Board of Kanzeon Zen Center, we have received many e-mails and phone calls concerning the highly-publicized situation resulting from Genpo Merzel's admission of his transgressions and sexual misconduct. These communications from Zen teachers in your organizations and others, not to mention open letters and other postings on various social media and internet sites, are filled with advice and recommendations, many of which are beyond the scope of our responsibility as a Board. To the extent that they are motivated by a sincere concern for the survival, healing and rebuilding of our sangha, we would like to share with you an account of some of our efforts to date. * Feb. 3rd: Shortly after returning from the international sangha meeting in Europe, Genpo Merzel met with the sangha at the Zen Center in Salt Lake City in an open meeting which was widely publicized in advance. He admitted his misconduct (which had already been made public but wasn't known by all attending), apologized for his actions for which he bears the blame and responsibility, and responded to the pain, anger, concerns, questions, and feelings of his wife, family and sangha members. * Feb. 6th: Genpo Merzel announced he is disrobing as a Soto Zen Buddhist priest, resigning as a member of the White Plum Asanga, acknowledged his own dishonest, hurtful behavior as well as his sexual misconduct, and
[FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha smoking next to Gas Pump
That is interesting that there are model codes of ethic out there instituted by other groups. Has the MUM community adopted and published a code of ethics yet? The TM-Rajas? The Board has also been in contact with organizations, which can provide experienced, objective, professional assistance in guiding us to the creation of a healthier sangha with proper safeguards and strategies to avoid any future misconduct and abuse. * Ongoing: The Board is formulating a Code of Ethics and Guidelines for Procedures addressing issues of misconduct, abuse, and grievances within the sangha, based on models already instituted by other groups. They will be adopted as soon as possible. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@... wrote: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Vaj Sent: Monday, February 21, 2011 4:35 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Buddha smoking next to Gas Pump I interviewed him January 10th, and it looks like this all broke about 3 weeks later. Our interview got interrupted and we had set a date for a 2nd one, but he mysteriously had to postpone. Now I know why. I emailed him to say that if and when he wants to do that interview, I'll deal with this topic with sensitivity and compassion, as I'm well aware that the same thing could have happened to me or just about anyone else. That doesn't justify the behavior, but that's the reality of the situation. Kaboom: Big Mind guru Genpo Merzel disrobes. A Letter from Kanzeon Zen Center Concerning Genpo Merzel by Al As many of you have heard, Genpo Merzel of Kanzeon Zen Center and Big Mind disrobed recently on the revelation that he had been having an affair with one of his senior students and Dharma heirs. You can read about it on http://sweepingzen.com/2011/02/07/dennis-genpo-merzel-disrobes-as-a-zen-pri est/ Sweeping Zen as well as other places. I have refrained from comment so far as so many others were doing so and because I felt that, by and large, Genpo was doing the right thing by acknowledging his actions, disrobing as a priest, resigning as a White Plum Asanga elder, and going into therapy. A lot of people have written about this issue and 44 American Zen Teachers sent their http://monkeymindonline.blogspot.com/2011/02/zen-teachers-respond-to-genpo- merzel.html advice to Kanzeon the other day. Today, I received this letter from Kanzeon, reproduced in its entirety below (disclosure: a few years ago, I paid for an online subscription to Kanzeon's archive and updates for video and audio by its various teachers so I'm on their mailing list). It seems like they are having enough issues right now that people might do well to give them a little space. The letter: Dear Kanzeon Zen Center Members and Friends, As you are no doubt aware, the situation at Kanzeon has been the subject of a great deal of conversation on the internet and elsewhere, including an open Letter of Recommendation to Kanzeon Zen Center from 44 American Zen Teachers, which was sent to us directly by Kyogen Carlson of the Dharma Rain Zen Center and posted two days ago on the Sweeping Zen website. Attached is the Kanzeon Board's response to that letter, which we are sending today to Roshi Gerry Shishin Wick, President, of the White Plum Asanga, and to the American Zen Teachers Association. We trust that they will post our letter on their websites and pass it on to their members. We would also like to remind you of the healing circle meeting tonight in the Zendo at Kanzeon at 7:30. These meetings will not be broadcast or recorded. Once again, we invite you to speak and listen from your heart, and even if you have not been involved in the conversation until now, to join us and participate actively in the healing and rebuilding of our sangha. Sincerely, The Kanzeon Board * To Members of the American Zen Teachers and White Plum Asanga: As members of the Board of Kanzeon Zen Center, we have received many e-mails and phone calls concerning the highly-publicized situation resulting from Genpo Merzel's admission of his transgressions and sexual misconduct. These communications from Zen teachers in your organizations and others, not to mention open letters and other postings on various social media and internet sites, are filled with advice and recommendations, many of which are beyond the scope of our responsibility as a Board. To the extent that they are motivated by a sincere concern for the survival, healing and rebuilding of our sangha, we would like to share with you an account of some of our efforts to date. * Feb. 3rd: Shortly after returning from the international sangha meeting in Europe, Genpo Merzel met with the sangha at the Zen Center in Salt Lake City in an open meeting which was widely publicized in advance. He admitted his misconduct (which had
[FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha smoking next to Gas Pump
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: Teachers come and go but the eternal is. This I agree with. Inside they are doing the right thing as a group, to facilitate the spiritual practice and protect that. This I don't. It sounds kinda paranoid to me. What is it about the spiritual practice that *needs* protecting, and from whom or what? not to mention the strong daily practice which all agree is vital Simply not true. Just another example of someone who has heard primarily the TM take on spiritual practice and believed that this is the only take there is. There are many traditions that do NOT believe in a formulaic, same-each-time daily practice. In fact, their teachings are designed to purposefully break things up, to provide some variety, which in their opinion provides numerous benefits. The first is helping the seekers to avoid slipping into ruts, in which they perform a practice by rote, and lose all enthusiasm for it and apprec- itation of it. The second is that some of these other traditions believe that some techniques (in particular those that force the practitioner to withdraw from daily life; i.e., techniques of sitting meditation that must be performed with the eyes closed) tend to over time make these practi- tioners withdraw similarly from life *outside* of their daily periods of meditation. One can make a case for this, just based on the TMO. How many long-term TMers either have withdrawn from (or would like to withdraw from) the noisy world and retreat into an artificial monastery setting (what else *are* the IA courses or life for decades in Fairfield). I'm not trying to argue with you 'Buck,' merely pointing out that when you present your opinions here on FFL, you often do so 1) as if they are Truth Incarnate and you the Seer Of Truth, and 2) as if the platitudes you come up with based on your TMO and Fairfield experiences apply to the rest of the larger world of spiritual practice. They don't. In many cases the things you consider essential are unique to the TMO, and other traditions would disagree with them vehemently. One of the things breaking up one's habits in terms of daily practice is supposed to create is more of a sense of *balance* in life. One could make a case that your occasional pronouncements about what the spiritual life should be display anything but.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha smoking next to Gas Pump
On Feb 22, 2011, at 6:04 AM, Buck wrote: Teachers come and go but the eternal is. Unless of course, the eternal disappears at the next pralaya...then it is not... That is interesting that there are model codes of ethic out there instituted by other groups. Has the MUM community adopted and published a code of ethics yet? The TM-Rajas? The Laws of Manu dude. Read them and weep.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha smoking next to Gas Pump
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: Teachers come and go but the eternal is. This I agree with. Inside they are doing the right thing as a group, to facilitate the spiritual practice and protect that. This I don't. It sounds kinda paranoid to me. What is it about the spiritual practice that *needs* protecting, and from whom or what? not to mention the strong daily practice which all agree is vital Simply not true. Just another example of someone who has heard primarily the TM take on spiritual practice and believed that this is the only take there is. There are many traditions that do NOT believe in a formulaic, same-each-time daily practice. In fact, their teachings are designed to purposefully break things up, to provide some variety, which in their opinion provides numerous benefits. The first is helping the seekers to avoid slipping into ruts, in which they perform a practice by rote, and lose all enthusiasm for it and apprec- itation of it. The second is that some of these other traditions believe that some techniques (in particular those that force the practitioner to withdraw from daily life; i.e., techniques of sitting meditation that must be performed with the eyes closed) tend to over time make these practi- tioners withdraw similarly from life *outside* of their daily periods of meditation. One can make a case for this, just based on the TMO. How many long-term TMers either have withdrawn from (or would like to withdraw from) the noisy world and retreat into an artificial monastery setting (what else *are* the IA courses or life for decades in Fairfield). I'm not trying to argue with you 'Buck,' merely pointing out that when you present your opinions here on FFL, you often do so 1) as if they are Truth Incarnate and you the Seer Of Truth, and 2) as if the platitudes you come up with based on your TMO and Fairfield experiences apply to the rest of the larger world of spiritual practice. They don't. In many cases the things you consider essential are unique to the TMO, and other traditions would disagree with them vehemently. One of the things breaking up one's habits in terms of daily practice is supposed to create is more of a sense of *balance* in life. One could make a case that your occasional pronouncements about what the spiritual life should be display anything but. Oh son, the more people meditating the better off we'll all be. That's my experience and the science generally seems to say that now too. There's an important public policy in that. A communal interest. I applaud their essential effort to facilitate it. I am also sorry the TM-Rajas can't do a better job of facilitating it. I'm sorry too it is not your experience. I pray for you. But would you have me deny my own experience? You're assuming a lot about me and meditators generally for not having the experience. Oh, incidentally, the three-hour twice a day meditation is not a bad program for many good reasons both practically and spiritually. 15 minutes is okay too. Meditate when you can. Have a nice day. Fond Regards, -Buck
[FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha smoking next to Gas Pump
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: snip not to mention the strong daily practice which all agree is vital Simply not true. Just another example of someone who has heard primarily the TM take on spiritual practice and believed that this is the only take there is. The board, members, and friends of the Kanzeon Zen Center and members of the American Zen Teachers and White Plum Asanga have heard primarily the TM take on spiritual practice and believe that this is the only take there is? Remarkable. Oh, wait... Barry didn't realize Buck was quoting the letter from the Kanzeon Zen Center board, so he just got a little mixed up.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: On Jul 21, 2010, at 5:06 PM, John wrote: An acharya on the internet said that Srila Prabhupada of ISKCON, at his death bed, admitted he lied to his disciples about the ease of bhakti yoga. It's actually harder than just chanting the mahamantra. This same acharya also stated that the Buddha's teachings are big lies. Well thank gawd he's dead! FWIW, according to (per Mr. Goodding) Maadhava-vidyaaraNya, materialist Caarvaakas and Buddhist had the least validity, whereas Paatanjaliiya yoga and especially Shankara's Advaita are the highest expression of truth. (SarvadarshanasaMgraha of VidyaaraNya)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha/Dzogchen Books
On Jul 21, 2010, at 9:18 PM, Peter wrote: Vaj, what would be a good book or two to introduce oneself to Dzogchen? I often recommend The Crystal and the Way of Light: Sutra, Tantra and Dzogchen and people seem to find it helpful. Actually before that book was written there really wasn't anything available on the topic period.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha/Dzogchen Books
Thank you much. Does the book include a demon I. D. Checkist? Peter On Jul 22, 2010, at 6:56 AM, Vaj vajradh...@earthlink.net wrote: On Jul 21, 2010, at 9:18 PM, Peter wrote: Vaj, what would be a good book or two to introduce oneself to Dzogchen? I often recommend The Crystal and the Way of Light: Sutra, Tantra and Dzogchen and people seem to find it helpful. Actually before that book was written there really wasn't anything available on the topic period.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha/Dzogchen Books
On Jul 22, 2010, at 7:27 AM, Peter L Sutphen wrote: Thank you much. Does the book include a demon I. D. Checkist? No but it does discuss Machig Lapdron briefly, who wrote the text Demons...
[FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha/Dzogchen Books
Does the book include a demon I. D. Checkist? Vaj: No but it does discuss Machig Lapdron briefly, who wrote the text Demons... 2. You'll also see lot's of COMPLICATION: esoteric, complicated- sounding knowledge, reference to many sects and texts and teachers, book learning galore... http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/252166
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha/Dzogchen Books
On Jul 22, 2010, at 9:07 AM, WillyTex wrote: Does the book include a demon I. D. Checkist? Vaj: No but it does discuss Machig Lapdron briefly, who wrote the text Demons... 2. You'll also see lot's of COMPLICATION: esoteric, complicated- sounding knowledge, reference to many sects and texts and teachers, book learning galore... http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/252166 Naw, what you have instead in Dr. Michael Dean Goodman with his head up his ass, jealous and angry having a hard time processing some of the recent exposes on his teacher. It's hard to let go when you are so attached to a product, there's always going to some emotion tied into that attachment, which is obviously causing him great pain and suffering. No basic sanity there I'm afraid. If you are interested in complication, I'd just recommend looking over some of his old posts (on this list) where he describes the teaching of Transcendental Meditation, ad nauseum!
[FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha/Dzogchen Books
No but it does discuss Machig Lapdron briefly, who wrote the text Demons... Vaj: If you are interested in complication, I'd just recommend looking over some of his old posts (on this list) where he describes the teaching of Transcendental Meditation, ad nauseum! Well, reading Goodman's posts is a lot simpler than learning how to decipher ancient, esoteric Tibetan texts! So I took off my therapist's hat and put on my spiritual hat and I read back over Vaj's posts with this in mind, and looked at the overall theme, the overall tone, the overall feeling that he radiates through his words, the obsessive dedication to obstructing simplicity and truth for so many years... http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/252166 2. You'll also see lot's of COMPLICATION: esoteric, complicated-sounding knowledge, reference to many sects and texts and teachers, book learning galore... http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/252166
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha/Dzogchen Books
On Jul 22, 2010, at 11:49 AM, WillyTex wrote: Vaj: If you are interested in complication, I'd just recommend looking over some of his old posts (on this list) where he describes the teaching of Transcendental Meditation, ad nauseum! Well, reading Goodman's posts is a lot simpler than learning how to decipher ancient, esoteric Tibetan texts! Well, I don't think you need to do any such thing, so that's just another straw man you've made. Just because someone lashes out at others and makes wild claims about me doesn't mean they're true. In this case they seem to stem more from Dr. Michael Dean Goodman Ph.D's own issues--so when someone like me nudges his unresolved issues, you get this huge upwelling of jealousy, anger and projection. Somewhat entertaining, but also rather sad. If you get a chance, it might be helpful to read Carl Jung's writings on super-inflation of the ego in westerners who decide to take on eastern spiritual practices. He really nails it.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha/Dzogchen Books
Peter, The Crystal the Way of Light is a good book but its value may depend upon your familiarity with Buddhism. However, once you understand this book, if still interested, you can turn to Quintessential Dzogchen: Confusion Dawns as Wisdom, translated by Eric Pema Kunsang. If you want a taste of what direct introduction is like then the only book that approaches it is Lion's Gaze by Khenchen Sherab Rinpoche and Khenpo Tsewang Dongyal Rinpoche. This is a verbal commentary on a text by Patrul Rinpoche, a famous practitioner and on the Three Words that Strike the Crucial Point by Garab Dorje, the root guru and so-called first human to teach Dzogchen. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter L Sutphen drpetersutp...@... wrote: Thank you much. Does the book include a demon I. D. Checkist? Peter On Jul 22, 2010, at 6:56 AM, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: On Jul 21, 2010, at 9:18 PM, Peter wrote: Vaj, what would be a good book or two to introduce oneself to Dzogchen? I often recommend The Crystal and the Way of Light: Sutra, Tantra and Dzogchen and people seem to find it helpful. Actually before that book was written there really wasn't anything available on the topic period.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha !
How can that be? You clearly have realized yourself within Brahman and Brahman within you. And Vaj clearly has realized himself within Brahman and Brahman within him. So if Vaj is mixed up, you must be mixed up -- yet how can Brahman be mixed up? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, WillyTex willy...@... wrote: I see it no more special than the movement of thought... Uh, oh! Vaj got mixed up again. The great demon of ignorant and discursive thought causes one to sink in the ocean of samsara. But when freed from this discursive thought, there is the indescribable state, beyond conceptual mind. Besides mere discursive thoughts, There is not even the words of 'samsara' and 'nirvana'. The total calming down of discursive thought Is the suchness of Dharmadhatu... - Nyoshul Khenpo Jamyang Dorje http://tinyurl.com/25zz8n8
[FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha/Dzogchen Books
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: On Jul 22, 2010, at 11:49 AM, WillyTex wrote: Well, I don't think you need to do any such thing, so that's just another straw man you've made. Just because someone lashes out at others and makes wild claims about me doesn't mean they're true. In this case they seem to stem more from Dr. Michael Dean Goodman Ph.D's own issues--so when someone like me nudges his unresolved issues, you get this huge upwelling of jealousy, anger and projection. Somewhat entertaining, but also rather sad. and/or you get projection looking into projection, back and forth, a infinite regress of projection -- each layer making the interaction more dense -- instead of light and clear. Some times it appears we have projection wars: You're projecting. No You're projecting! No, You're projecting that I am projecting. No, You're projecting that I am projecting that your projecting. ... Soon it becomes the density of a black hole. No light escapes outside the co-dependent projections. We become a living symbiotic event horizon.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha !
Good question! I'm still trying to figure out who the person is asking all the questions: i.e. if person a is only an illusion observed by person b (likewise an illusion), then c and so on, one of the infinitude of persons down the road could be the true Solipsist: possibly John Malkovich or Jim Carrey; but David Lynch, I doubt. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_re...@... wrote: How can that be? You clearly have realized yourself within Brahman and Brahman within you. And Vaj clearly has realized himself within Brahman and Brahman within him. So if Vaj is mixed up, you must be mixed up -- yet how can Brahman be mixed up? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, WillyTex willytex@ wrote: I see it no more special than the movement of thought... Uh, oh! Vaj got mixed up again. The great demon of ignorant and discursive thought causes one to sink in the ocean of samsara. But when freed from this discursive thought, there is the indescribable state, beyond conceptual mind. Besides mere discursive thoughts, There is not even the words of 'samsara' and 'nirvana'. The total calming down of discursive thought Is the suchness of Dharmadhatu... - Nyoshul Khenpo Jamyang Dorje http://tinyurl.com/25zz8n8
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha !
On Jul 21, 2010, at 5:06 PM, John wrote: An acharya on the internet said that Srila Prabhupada of ISKCON, at his death bed, admitted he lied to his disciples about the ease of bhakti yoga. It's actually harder than just chanting the mahamantra. This same acharya also stated that the Buddha's teachings are big lies. Well thank gawd he's dead!
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha !
Which one, Buddha or the Krishna guy? ;-) How 'bout those lies, though! I'm cleaning out my spiritual library as we speak! --- On Wed, 7/21/10, Vaj vajradh...@earthlink.net wrote: From: Vaj vajradh...@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha ! To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, July 21, 2010, 5:14 PM On Jul 21, 2010, at 5:06 PM, John wrote: An acharya on the internet said that Srila Prabhupada of ISKCON, at his death bed, admitted he lied to his disciples about the ease of bhakti yoga. It's actually harder than just chanting the mahamantra. This same acharya also stated that the Buddha's teachings are big lies. Well thank gawd he's dead! To subscribe, send a message to: fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links fairfieldlife-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha !
On Jul 21, 2010, at 5:20 PM, Peter wrote: Which one, Buddha or the Krishna guy? ;-) How 'bout those lies, though! I'm cleaning out my spiritual library as we speak! I gotta say Prabhupada always creeped me out, despite my love for Hari Krishna movement food.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha !
I see it no more special than the movement of thought... Uh, oh! Vaj got mixed up again. The great demon of ignorant and discursive thought causes one to sink in the ocean of samsara. But when freed from this discursive thought, there is the indescribable state, beyond conceptual mind. Besides mere discursive thoughts, There is not even the words of 'samsara' and 'nirvana'. The total calming down of discursive thought Is the suchness of Dharmadhatu... - Nyoshul Khenpo Jamyang Dorje http://tinyurl.com/25zz8n8
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha !
On Jul 21, 2010, at 6:48 PM, WillyTex wrote: I see it no more special than the movement of thought... Uh, oh! Vaj got mixed up again. The great demon of ignorant and discursive thought causes one to sink in the ocean of samsara. But when freed from this discursive thought, there is the indescribable state, beyond conceptual mind. Besides mere discursive thoughts, There is not even the words of 'samsara' and 'nirvana'. The total calming down of discursive thought Is the suchness of Dharmadhatu... - Nyoshul Khenpo Jamyang Dorje http://tinyurl.com/25zz8n8 I'm sorry to confuse you Willy and send you into a tizzy, I was speaking of the View of Dzogchen, which I thought was obvious. Other vehicles see thought very differently. It's common to look at nine different views. The view you're expressing is more a sutric View (where the three main subdivisions are Sutra, Tantra and Dzogchen), In Dzogchen the movement of thought is called gyuwa: In Dzogchen contemplation, free from the defects of sleepiness, agitation and distraction, both the moments of calm that occur between one thought and another, and the movements of thoughts themselves are integrated in the non-dual presence of Enlightened awareness. The term rigpa (the opposite of marigpa—-the fundamental delusion of dualistic mind) indicates the pure presence of this inherently self-liberating awareness, in which thought is neither rejected nor followed. -The Crystal and the Way of Light by N.N. Rinpoche. First one introduces techniques to reveal the calm, transcendent or thought-free state, but as soon as one gets that, one is ready to move on to integrating with the movement of thought. One doesn't hang around, doing transcendent practice for years or decades. One goes for the highest first, rather than sticking around for the lowest first. Of course, TMers are famous for falling asleep. So it's hard for most TMers IME to recognize the nondual natural condition; if they do accidentally, they'll typically start ranting that they're enlightened. Though IME the over-emphasis on silence usually relegates them to sleep more than awakening...
[FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: escapism shtick is *not* working for a lot of people. From my POV this is a tendency fostered in many spiritual movements. You just happen to live in one where TM is prevalent. But unless the technique includes antidotes for the dryness of non-mentation, whatever the religion or technique, it can lead to problems. I particularly noticed around alleged TM-style awakeners an inability to transcend and include mentation as part of the awakened landscape. While at one time I would have seen, because of my TM conditioning, silence as an absolute virtue, now I see it no more special than the movement of thought; in fact overemphasis on just silence seems unhealthy to me. Well, actually there is a lot more going on spiritually in Fairfield than TM. Is a lot of spiritual practice going on. Someone shared this e-mail below which, although is someone else enumerating, is inclusive of what all is here and practiced in experience also. Seeing it kind of depends who you sit with. That is what makes Fairfield such an interesting place aside from the TM movement, as you are open to it. There is quite a graduate community here beyond TM both inside and outside the domes. The place is hardly monolithic like some would like it to be. JGD, -Buck in FF Q: What should one focus on in meditation? A: There are three basic styles that can be described that are effective and fruitful. The first could be described as psychological insight or self-examination. The second is through the thought field, and the third is the simplest by which to bypass the thought field. ,,, Style 3: Bypassing the Mind. Whereas Styles 1 and 2 are educative, Style 3 is purely subjective/ experiential and not mental, psychological, emotional, or conceptual. It is the most rapid and basic and consists of a simple doingness. The steps are very simple; relax completely and deeply; close the eyes; witness the visual field and merely focus on what is witnessed. Within the darkness, notice numerous tiny bits of dancing light phenomena (called phosphens). Become at one with the lights (thoughtlessness ensues), and merge with the visual field. In due time, the context simultaneously begins to shift and deepen. The seeming separation between the witness and the observer disappears. One becomes the phenomenon sans a localized observer. Eventually, only awareness itself prevails, and all is spontaneous and nondual. The mind is bypassed. With practice, the capacity to be one with the silent, thoughtless state can be maintained with the eyes open. One then lives within the silent state. -Excerpt from latest book by Dr. David R.Hawkins
[FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha !
Hawkins...right...the applied kinesiology guy. Energygrid website says this about him: As you can imagine, by presenting himself as a scientist able to objectively and absolutely test and calibrate truth by pushing down on another person's arm, Hawkins is one of the most controversial teachers on the New Age circuit. For his supporters (and for Hawkins himself), he is a brilliant academic, scientific genius and enlightened spiritual master who has discovered something of immense importance to humanity a means to objectively test truth and calibrate consciousness for the first time in history. But to his detractors, he is an ignorant, self-serving, egotistical and right-wing cult-leader masquerading as a scientist and playing God, who has based his entire philosophy or work on a simple muscle technique misappropriated from Applied Kinesiology, an alternative and controversial therapy that itself regards the muscle test as neither objective nor conclusive on matters of truth. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: escapism shtick is *not* working for a lot of people. From my POV this is a tendency fostered in many spiritual movements. You just happen to live in one where TM is prevalent. But unless the technique includes antidotes for the dryness of non-mentation, whatever the religion or technique, it can lead to problems. I particularly noticed around alleged TM-style awakeners an inability to transcend and include mentation as part of the awakened landscape. While at one time I would have seen, because of my TM conditioning, silence as an absolute virtue, now I see it no more special than the movement of thought; in fact overemphasis on just silence seems unhealthy to me. Well, actually there is a lot more going on spiritually in Fairfield than TM. Is a lot of spiritual practice going on. Someone shared this e-mail below which, although is someone else enumerating, is inclusive of what all is here and practiced in experience also. Seeing it kind of depends who you sit with. That is what makes Fairfield such an interesting place aside from the TM movement, as you are open to it. There is quite a graduate community here beyond TM both inside and outside the domes. The place is hardly monolithic like some would like it to be. JGD, -Buck in FF Q: What should one focus on in meditation? A: There are three basic styles that can be described that are effective and fruitful. The first could be described as psychological insight or self-examination. The second is through the thought field, and the third is the simplest by which to bypass the thought field. ,,, Style 3: Bypassing the Mind. Whereas Styles 1 and 2 are educative, Style 3 is purely subjective/ experiential and not mental, psychological, emotional, or conceptual. It is the most rapid and basic and consists of a simple doingness. The steps are very simple; relax completely and deeply; close the eyes; witness the visual field and merely focus on what is witnessed. Within the darkness, notice numerous tiny bits of dancing light phenomena (called phosphens). Become at one with the lights (thoughtlessness ensues), and merge with the visual field. In due time, the context simultaneously begins to shift and deepen. The seeming separation between the witness and the observer disappears. One becomes the phenomenon sans a localized observer. Eventually, only awareness itself prevails, and all is spontaneous and nondual. The mind is bypassed. With practice, the capacity to be one with the silent, thoughtless state can be maintained with the eyes open. One then lives within the silent state. -Excerpt from latest book by Dr. David R.Hawkins
[FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha !
there's a flaw in your reasoning pertaining to the following statement: One goes for the highest first, rather than sticking around for the lowest first. First, in TM what one goes for is dictacted mainly by the current state of one's consciousness including embedded physilogical stress (and stress on all levels). The result or outcome of TM is not oriented toward going for something but rather a spontaneous and possibly unexpected result of a nearly effortless technique. If there were any logic in the argument of what one goes for, then Neo-Advaita would be superior to Dzogchen since what goes for in Poonja's Neo-Advaita is immediate, non-progressive Enlightenment on the spot, with the practice of no techniques at all! There are a lot of things that people go for which don't necessarily match the results. So the bottom line is some result, and how long the results take, regardless of what people go for in terms of expectations, hopes, and fantasies. Also, you consistently forget to tell people about the preliminary practices in Dzogchen. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: On Jul 21, 2010, at 6:48 PM, WillyTex wrote: I see it no more special than the movement of thought... Uh, oh! Vaj got mixed up again. The great demon of ignorant and discursive thought causes one to sink in the ocean of samsara. But when freed from this discursive thought, there is the indescribable state, beyond conceptual mind. Besides mere discursive thoughts, There is not even the words of 'samsara' and 'nirvana'. The total calming down of discursive thought Is the suchness of Dharmadhatu... - Nyoshul Khenpo Jamyang Dorje http://tinyurl.com/25zz8n8 I'm sorry to confuse you Willy and send you into a tizzy, I was speaking of the View of Dzogchen, which I thought was obvious. Other vehicles see thought very differently. It's common to look at nine different views. The view you're expressing is more a sutric View (where the three main subdivisions are Sutra, Tantra and Dzogchen), In Dzogchen the movement of thought is called gyuwa: In Dzogchen contemplation, free from the defects of sleepiness, agitation and distraction, both the moments of calm that occur between one thought and another, and the movements of thoughts themselves are integrated in the non-dual presence of Enlightened awareness. The term rigpa (the opposite of marigpa-the fundamental delusion of dualistic mind) indicates the pure presence of this inherently self-liberating awareness, in which thought is neither rejected nor followed. -The Crystal and the Way of Light by N.N. Rinpoche. First one introduces techniques to reveal the calm, transcendent or thought-free state, but as soon as one gets that, one is ready to move on to integrating with the movement of thought. One doesn't hang around, doing transcendent practice for years or decades. One goes for the highest first, rather than sticking around for the lowest first. Of course, TMers are famous for falling asleep. So it's hard for most TMers IME to recognize the nondual natural condition; if they do accidentally, they'll typically start ranting that they're enlightened. Though IME the over-emphasis on silence usually relegates them to sleep more than awakening...
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha/Dzogchen Books
Vaj, what would be a good book or two to introduce oneself to Dzogchen? --- On Wed, 7/21/10, Vaj vajradh...@earthlink.net wrote: From: Vaj vajradh...@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha ! To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, July 21, 2010, 7:32 PM On Jul 21, 2010, at 6:48 PM, WillyTex wrote: I see it no more special than the movement of thought... Uh, oh! Vaj got mixed up again. The great demon of ignorant and discursive thought causes one to sink in the ocean of samsara. But when freed from this discursive thought, there is the indescribable state, beyond conceptual mind. Besides mere discursive thoughts, There is not even the words of 'samsara' and 'nirvana'. The total calming down of discursive thought Is the suchness of Dharmadhatu... - Nyoshul Khenpo Jamyang Dorje http://tinyurl.com/25zz8n8 I'm sorry to confuse you Willy and send you into a tizzy, I was speaking of the View of Dzogchen, which I thought was obvious. Other vehicles see thought very differently. It's common to look at nine different views. The view you're expressing is more a sutric View (where the three main subdivisions are Sutra, Tantra and Dzogchen), In Dzogchen the movement of thought is called gyuwa: In Dzogchen contemplation, free from the defects of sleepiness, agitation and distraction, both the moments of calm that occur between one thought and another, and the movements of thoughts themselves are integrated in the non-dual presence of Enlightened awareness. The term rigpa (the opposite of marigpa—-the fundamental delusion of dualistic mind) indicates the pure presence of this inherently self-liberating awareness, in which thought is neither rejected nor followed. -The Crystal and the Way of Light by N.N. Rinpoche. First one introduces techniques to reveal the calm, transcendent or thought-free state, but as soon as one gets that, one is ready to move on to integrating with the movement of thought. One doesn't hang around, doing transcendent practice for years or decades. One goes for the highest first, rather than sticking around for the lowest first. Of course, TMers are famous for falling asleep. So it's hard for most TMers IME to recognize the nondual natural condition; if they do accidentally, they'll typically start ranting that they're enlightened. Though IME the over-emphasis on silence usually relegates them to sleep more than awakening...
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha/Dzogchen Books
On Jul 21, 2010, at 8:18 PM, Peter wrote: Vaj, what would be a good book or two to introduce oneself to Dzogchen? Dzogchen For Dummies. Sal
[FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha Eating Meat
Jim Flanegin writes snipped: Since you see this as myth, why not see it personally, as each of us facing our own Arjuna and Krishna? Facing our Duryodhana, king of the demons, on our battlefield of Kurukshetra? As another possibility, that is the way I interpret the dialogue between Arjuna and Krishna. Tom T: In Jed McKennas book #2 Spiritually Incorrect Enlightenment, He makes the same argument and goes into it in great detail. He also ties that same metaphor to the Moby Dick story. A great read written by one of us. Tom T
[FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha Eating Meat
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jim Flanegin writes snipped: Since you see this as myth, why not see it personally, as each of us facing our own Arjuna and Krishna? Facing our Duryodhana, king of the demons, on our battlefield of Kurukshetra? As another possibility, that is the way I interpret the dialogue between Arjuna and Krishna. Tom T: In Jed McKennas book #2 Spiritually Incorrect Enlightenment, He makes the same argument and goes into it in great detail. He also ties that same metaphor to the Moby Dick story. A great read written by one of us. Tom T I will keep that book on my list. I like the title since it appears to be the only way Enlightenment is ultimately achieved. If seen as an empty myth, the Gita has no value at all. I enjoy it more as a challenge, and clear elucidation of the path the mind and heart take to gain eternal freedom. It has inspired me for decades.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha Eating Meat
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Compare and contrast to the three guys I mentioned, who stood for trying to find a NEW solution to the age-old problems that confront the residents of planet Earth. These guys all stood for looking at the world as we, not as them vs us. They stood for not taking life so seriously, not for Taking Life, Seriously. Seriously? And thats what I mean: I wasn't serious. I just thought that two of the three you mentioned were shot (and three of four if you count J.L. - despite for all their efforts and what they stood for was an irony of fate. Nothing to say against their message. But it also means that their message couldn't prevent the fate they had - undeserved in our eyes. There is nothing to much comment about it, but of course you are welcome ;-) Its just live. Its not logical. The most peace-loving gets shot by the crazy man who doesn't understand his message. You cannot prevent this, and no army of peace-inspired writers. Now, to diametrically oppose the Buddha with the message of the Gita may still be okay, but this is a little bit harder when it comes to Mahatma Gandhi, who actually said that his message was inspired totally by the Gita, you might want to actually READ what he said, (as you are a writer, according to your own admission, it would be good to study him a little). This is what Gandhi had to say about the Gita: Hinduism as I know it entirely satisfies my soul, fills my whole being ... When doubts haunt me, when disappointments stare me in the face, and when I see not one ray of light on the horizon, I turn to the Bhagavad Gita, and find a verse to comfort me; and I immediately begin to smile in the midst of overwhelming sorrow. My life has been full of tragedies and if they have not left any visible and indelible effect on me, I owe it to the teachings of the Bhagavad Gita. He actually wrote a commentary on the Gita in Gujarati, which was translated into english: http://www.amazon.com/Bhagavad-Gita-According-Gandhi/dp/1893163113 I think your interpretation of the Gita is onesided and out of focus. That Buddha didn't get shot too, is IMHO unly due to the fact that automatic fire weapons weren't envogue at the time (they were invented later - for a reason - which was?) and he probably had strong bodyguards, who must have saved him from all the violent Arjunas of his time. ;-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha Eating Meat
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: big snip Recruit them from kids who grew up on the myths created by people like Gandhi or Buddha or Martin Luther King, and who can thus think of more than two solutions to the problems of the world. Why the Buddha? Buddha wasn't shot, he just died of poisoned meat. Do you mean meat gone bad, that is rancid, spoiled, and thus food-poisoning? Or do you mean someone put poison in his meat? The story I've read is that Buddha died of food poisoning after eating cooked pork that had spoiled. One story is that SBS died of food poisoning. If Buddha did too, its an odd and interesting trend among saints, and in Buddha's case an avatar (per some). OTOH, I've never come across any ridiculous nutter conspiracy theories that Buddha's personal secretary intentionally poisoned him.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha Eating Meat
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: big snip Recruit them from kids who grew up on the myths created by people like Gandhi or Buddha or Martin Luther King, and who can thus think of more than two solutions to the problems of the world. Why the Buddha? Buddha wasn't shot, he just died of poisoned meat. Do you mean meat gone bad, that is rancid, spoiled, and thus food-poisoning? Or do you mean someone put poison in his meat? The former. I just had meant to say, that Buddha somewhat stands out from Gandhi or Martin Luther King as he wasn't shot, and these are the guys meaningful writers are supposed to turn to in order to prevent insane shooting. That was sort of just a pun. I guess, some will argue that he just accepted the meat being a guest, and that he wasn't a regular meat eater. He took it AFAIK to bless his host. Soem will say its my limitations, but somehow I prefer saints (and their wisdom) who don't eat meat. One story is that SBS died of food poisoning. If Buddha did too, its an odd and interesting trend among saints, and in Buddha's case an avatar (per some). Perhaps Buddha had a secretary who poisened him, we should roll up the case again. Hard to fathom karma, much less the karma and taking on of collective karma of saints. It just seems an odd way for Buddha to go -- eating meat. Even that may be moral tale. Then again, animal sacrafice was an integral part of many religions in theri pre-modern forms. In pre 70AD judiasm, before destruction of the temple, sacrafices were done right in the temple. I guess eating the prasad of sacrafice has a logic. If one gets over the hurdle of the idea that killing animals is a way to please god and atone for sins. I tend to thing that suicid bombing is a more modern form of human sacrifice. Perhaps there are some kind of vital beings who live on that kind of thing. Maybe the reason in the recent uprise of islam. And in the modern age, eating meat, and supporting the whole caged meat industry complex, is a major source of greenhouse gas emissions -- methane in particular. Global warming doesn't seem to be a divine reward for righteous activity. But then Buddha didn't know of greenhouse gas yet. I always took his eating meat as a teaching on being non dogmatic. Being vegetarian myself, I don't want to be dogmatic about it.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha Eating Meat
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: big snip Recruit them from kids who grew up on the myths created by people like Gandhi or Buddha or Martin Luther King, and who can thus think of more than two solutions to the problems of the world. Why the Buddha? Buddha wasn't shot, he just died of poisoned meat. Do you mean meat gone bad, that is rancid, spoiled, and thus food-poisoning? Or do you mean someone put poison in his meat? The former. I just had meant to say, that Buddha somewhat stands out from Gandhi or Martin Luther King as he wasn't shot, and these are the guys meaningful writers are supposed to turn to in order to prevent insane shooting. I'm going to have to respond to this one, even though I don't really want to waste a post on it. I am sitting here completely mindboggled to think that anyone -- much less t3rinity -- could imagine that the thing I thought connected Gandhi and Buddha and Martin Luter King was that two of the three were shot. I am rendered almost speechless by this. But not quite. :-) What I had in mind when I wrote my earlier rant about the myth-formers of our age was that the thing that connected these three guys was that they THOUGHT OUT OF THE BOX. Whereas most of the human beings of their respective eras looked at the world around them and saw only a few limited options -- for example, killing the person whose actions you don't like or putting them in jail -- these three guys saw other options. All three of them looked at the Same Problems and saw Other Solutions. None of the solutions they saw had to rely on violence and the perpetuation of it. *That* is what makes them related in my mind, not what may or may not have happened to them. Same thing for John Lennon, who someone else brought up. What makes these guys interesting is NOT what Other People might have done to them as a result of what they stood for, but what they stood for. They stood for NOT SETTLING for all the things we've been taught all our lives to settle for, often by people we consider spir- itual teachers. Think Krishna. As Vyasa tells the story of the Bhagavad-Gita, Krishna is basically the counterpart in his age of a lobbyist/cheerleader for Bush, Cheney Inc. He's trying to convince Arjuna that the way to attain his spiritual goals is to *not* question authority, to go to war and kill as many other human beings as he can in it, and to basically Do What He's Been Told To Do By The Folks Who Run The Status Quo. Compare and contrast to the three guys I mentioned, who stood for trying to find a NEW solution to the age-old problems that confront the residents of planet Earth. These guys all stood for looking at the world as we, not as them vs us. They stood for not taking life so seriously, not for Taking Life, Seriously.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha Eating Meat
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip What I had in mind when I wrote my earlier rant about the myth-formers of our age was that the thing that connected these three guys was that they THOUGHT OUT OF THE BOX. Whereas most of the human beings of their respective eras looked at the world around them and saw only a few limited options -- for example, killing the person whose actions you don't like or putting them in jail -- these three guys saw other options. All three of them looked at the Same Problems and saw Other Solutions. None of the solutions they saw had to rely on violence and the perpetuation of it. *That* is what makes them related in my mind, not what may or may not have happened to them. Same thing for John Lennon, who someone else brought up. What makes these guys interesting is NOT what Other People might have done to them as a result of what they stood for, but what they stood for. They stood for NOT SETTLING for all the things we've been taught all our lives to settle for, often by people we consider spir- itual teachers. Think Krishna. As Vyasa tells the story of the Bhagavad-Gita, Krishna is basically the counterpart in his age of a lobbyist/cheerleader for Bush, Cheney Inc. He's trying to convince Arjuna that the way to attain his spiritual goals is to *not* question authority, to go to war and kill as many other human beings as he can in it, and to basically Do What He's Been Told To Do By The Folks Who Run The Status Quo. Compare and contrast to the three guys I mentioned, who stood for trying to find a NEW solution to the age-old problems that confront the residents of planet Earth. These guys all stood for looking at the world as we, not as them vs us. They stood for not taking life so seriously, not for Taking Life, Seriously. Krishna gave Arjuna a technique to break the deadlock between Arjuna's heart and mind. Arjuna was a kshatriya and so was engaged in battle. Krishna is neutral to the outcome of the battle, but favors the good. Since you see this as myth, why not see it personally, as each of us facing our own Arjuna and Krishna? Facing our Duryodhana, king of the demons, on our battlefield of Kurukshetra? As another possibility, that is the way I interpret the dialogue between Arjuna and Krishna.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha Eating Meat
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: new.morning wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: big snip Recruit them from kids who grew up on the myths created by people like Gandhi or Buddha or Martin Luther King, and who can thus think of more than two solutions to the problems of the world. Why the Buddha? Buddha wasn't shot, he just died of poisoned meat. snip And in the modern age, eating meat, and supporting the whole caged meat industry complex, is a major source of greenhouse gas emissions -- methane in particular. Global warming doesn't seem to be a divine reward for righteous activity. Let's try some performance tests of a westerner wannabe vegetarian and a western meat eater against a Indian whose ancestor were vegetarians for centuries. My bet is the Indian would way out perform the wannabe vegetarian but be on a par with the western meat eater. Unfortunately meat eating is a curse that for most of us was given to us by our ancestors. Most of us with the curse have learned long ago with little forays into vegetarianism it wouldn't work for us. In fact two weeks into my first foray in 1972 I had a check-up from an ND who asked me if I was a vegetarian. I told him I had been experimenting with it for two weeks and he told me you're already showing signs of anemia so you can't be a vegetarian. He recommended that I include some animal protein two or three times a week. Now for most westerners that would be a considerable reduction in their animal protein intake and probably the most reasonable way to go. As with many things, your mileage may vary. I ate a vegetarian diet during most of my 20's, and always craved sugar because I wasn't getting enough protein- couldn't hack it. Used to eat meat three times a day as a kid. Couldn't do that again either.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha Eating Meat
The story I've read is that Buddha died of food poisoning after eating cooked pork that had spoiled. Buddha was in the knowledge business. I believe the official cause of death was a trick in gnosis. lurk
[FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha on the Brain
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip to B. Alan Wallace may be the American Buddhist most committed to finding connections between Buddhism and science. An ex-Buddhist monk who went on to get a doctorate in religious studies at Stanford, he once studied under the Dalai Lama, and has acted as one of the Tibetan leader's translators. Thanks for passing this recommendation along. I will have to order the book. BTW, forget studying at Stanford as a pedigree. Have you ever seen the Dalai Lama or other Tibetan teachers, and seen how translation works in that environment? It's not like the UN version, where the teacher speaks one sentence or at most two and then pauses so that the translator can translate. It's more like the teacher really gettin' into it and talking for five minutes, while the translator sits there beside him, taking no notes. Then the Dalai Lama pauses and the translator does the whole five-minute talk, in another language. Perfectly. It's one of the highest artforms I've ever been fortunate enough to witness. If this guy had that function with the Dalai Lama, that alone is pedigree enough for me.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha on the Brain
A few excerpts from the interview: Science is as much about method as anything. The scientific method posits hypotheses and theories that can be tested. Is that something Buddhism does as well? Not in the same way. I wouldn't want to overplay the case that Buddhism has always been a science, with clear hypotheses and complete skepticism. It's too much of a religion, and so there's a lot of vested interest in the Buddhist community not to challenge the statements made by the Buddha and other great patriarchs in the Buddhist tradition. So there are some fundamental differences. At the same time, science is not just science. This very notion that the mind must simply be an emergent property of the brain -- consisting only of physical phenomena and nothing more -- is not a testable hypothesis. Science is based upon a very profound metaphysical foundation. Can you test the statement that there is nothing else going on apart from physical phenomena and their emergent properties? The answer is no. In science, you have a hypothesis that's tested, and it can be disproved. Does that happen in Buddhism? On its home turf, frequently not. But I'm also waiting for a neuroscientist to tell me how the hypothesis that mental states are nothing more than neural states will be repudiated. I don't see that as a testable hypothesis. So there's a fair amount of dogma, not in science per se but in the minds of scientists. Likewise, there's plenty of dogma in the minds of Buddhists. But Buddhism at its best -- and we go right back to the teachings of the Buddha himself -- encourages a spirit of skepticism. He said, Do not take my statements to be true simply out of reverence for me. But rather, put them to the test. Well, if you do that, you should be able to repudiate them as well as confirm them. [From the scientific perspective,] your consciousness is a product of the brain. Damage the brain and your consciousness evaporates into nothing. Now what's the experiment by which you repudiate that hypothesis? Well, all the mental states you're studying are by way of the brain, so the answer is nada. So it's not scientific and it's not testable, at least not yet. Is Buddhism a religion or is it something else? Because there are some people in the West who say we should strip Buddhism of any vestiges of the religious or the transcendental. For instance, Stephen Batchelor, in his book Buddhism Without Beliefs, writes, The Buddha was not a mystic. His awakening was not a shattering insight into a transcendental truth that revealed to him the mysteries of God. He did not claim to have had an experience that granted him privileged, esoteric knowledge of how the universe ticks. Is Stephen Batchelor right? [Laughs] I've known Stephen Batchelor for almost 35 years. We were monks together for years, both in India and in Switzerland. To come up with this picture of the Buddha, you have to bring out a carving knife and chop off great sections of the most authentic accounts we have of the Buddha's own teachings. You simply have to ignore and pretend he never said an enormous number of things he did say. I think Stephen, my dear friend, has recast the Buddha in his own image as an English skeptic who was raised in an agnostic background, who really doesn't believe in anything nonphysical. Read it all at (you'll have to watch a brief ad first): http://www.salon.com/books/int/2006/11/27/wallace/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha.......the world's first Fool.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Buddha rebelled against his tradition and the brahmin order, only later to realise he was wrong. The first of many mistakes and inferior approach to knowledge: Prince Siddhartha who deserted his wife when she was not looking, made a confession years later. I stealthily slipped out of the bedroom that night. I thought she was an obstacle in my spiritual pursuit. But looking back, I realise, it was a mistake. For a person who has his goals fixed, obstacles never happen.He was implying that for the bliss of salvation, one need not run away from the material world and its most slandered component the wife. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1227589.cms Then again, did you ever *meet* Buddha's wife? Real bitch. I felt enlightened every time she left the room, so I can only imagine how he felt. :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha.......the world's first Fool.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Buddha rebelled against his tradition and the brahmin order, only later to realise he was wrong. The first of many mistakes and inferior approach to knowledge: Prince Siddhartha who deserted his wife when she was not looking, made a confession years later. I stealthily slipped out of the bedroom that night. I thought she was an obstacle in my spiritual pursuit. But looking back, I realise, it was a mistake. For a person who has his goals fixed, obstacles never happen.He was implying that for the bliss of salvation, one need not run away from the material world and its most slandered component the wife. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1227589.cms You seem to be awake to some essential aspects of life. irmeli Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha.......the world's first Fool.
Lol, hit him with a broom. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Cliff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Considering she was a Jewish mom, I bet she smacked him good for that one! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert Gimbel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jesus has similar stories of his relationship with God; and his other relationships... He told his Mother, that she was not his mother; Rather as he became 'Soul-Realized'; The perception became; That he was purely from Heaven; And perhaps, all of us at some point; Have to give up all of the attachments; Of the ego; Family relationships, business, money, home, everything; Eventually everything, becomes secondary to Samhadhi, and the; The passion to serve the Holy One, The Sage... wrote: Buddha rebelled against his tradition and the brahmin order, only later to realise he was wrong. The first of many mistakes and inferior approach to knowledge: Prince Siddhartha who deserted his wife when she was not looking, made a confession years later. I stealthily slipped out of the bedroom that night. I thought she was an obstacle in my spiritual pursuit. But looking back, I realise, it was a mistake. For a person who has his goals fixed, obstacles never happen.He was implying that for the bliss of salvation, one need not run away from the material world and its most slandered component the wife. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1227589.cms Um...and which volume of the recorded sayings of Buddha is this from?. It is the ONLY recorded saying of Buddha. The rest were made up by admirers and followers after he died. Ah, I see. Who wrote it down, his wife? Maybe she was the Dr. Phil fan... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha.......the world's first Fool.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Buddha rebelled against his tradition and the brahmin order, only later to realise he was wrong. The first of many mistakes and inferior approach to knowledge: Prince Siddhartha who deserted his wife when she was not looking, made a confession years later. I stealthily slipped out of the bedroom that night. I thought she was an obstacle in my spiritual pursuit. But looking back, I realise, it was a mistake. For a person who has his goals fixed, obstacles never happen.He was implying that for the bliss of salvation, one need not run away from the material world and its most slandered component the wife. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1227589.cms Then again, did you ever *meet* Buddha's wife? Real bitch. I felt enlightened every time she left the room, so I can only imagine how he felt. :-) Naw man, she was a real hot 18 year old chic, beauty of the land. That is why I wonder about Buddha and his 'disciple brothers'. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha.......the world's first Fool.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Buddha rebelled against his tradition and the brahmin order, only later to realise he was wrong. The first of many mistakes and inferior approach to knowledge: Prince Siddhartha who deserted his wife when she was not looking, made a confession years later. I stealthily slipped out of the bedroom that night. I thought she was an obstacle in my spiritual pursuit. But looking back, I realise, it was a mistake. For a person who has his goals fixed, obstacles never happen.He was implying that for the bliss of salvation, one need not run away from the material world and its most slandered component the wife. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1227589.cms Then again, did you ever *meet* Buddha's wife? Real bitch. I felt enlightened every time she left the room, so I can only imagine how he felt. :-) Naw man, she was a real hot 18 year old chic, beauty of the land. That is why I wonder about Buddha and his 'disciple brothers'. In Japan, no need to wonder at all. The monastaries were built to ensure that the older brothers and younger brothers could always study together as easily as possible. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha.......the world's first Fool.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Buddha rebelled against his tradition and the brahmin order, only later to realise he was wrong. The first of many mistakes and inferior approach to knowledge: Prince Siddhartha who deserted his wife when she was not looking, made a confession years later. I stealthily slipped out of the bedroom that night. I thought she was an obstacle in my spiritual pursuit. But looking back, I realise, it was a mistake. For a person who has his goals fixed, obstacles never happen.He was implying that for the bliss of salvation, one need not run away from the material world and its most slandered component the wife. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1227589.cms Um...and which volume of the recorded sayings of Buddha is this from? Sounds kinda like Dr. Phil, if you ask me. (Not that it isn't a fine thought on its own terms.) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha.......the world's first Fool.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Buddha rebelled against his tradition and the brahmin order, only later to realise he was wrong. The first of many mistakes and inferior approach to knowledge: Prince Siddhartha who deserted his wife when she was not looking, made a confession years later. I stealthily slipped out of the bedroom that night. I thought she was an obstacle in my spiritual pursuit. But looking back, I realise, it was a mistake. For a person who has his goals fixed, obstacles never happen.He was implying that for the bliss of salvation, one need not run away from the material world and its most slandered component the wife. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1227589.cms Um...and which volume of the recorded sayings of Buddha is this from?. It is the ONLY recorded saying of Buddha. The rest were made up by admirers and followers after he died. -OffWorld Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha.......the world's first Fool.
Jesus has similar stories of his relationship with God; and his other relationships... He told his Mother, that she was not his mother; Rather as he became 'Soul-Realized'; The perception became; That he was purely from Heaven; And perhaps, all of us at some point; Have to give up all of the attachments; Of the ego; Family relationships, business, money, home, everything; Eventually everything, becomes secondary to Samhadhi, and the; The passion to serve the Holy One, The Sage... wrote: Buddha rebelled against his tradition and the brahmin order, only later to realise he was wrong. The first of many mistakes and inferior approach to knowledge: Prince Siddhartha who deserted his wife when she was not looking, made a confession years later. I stealthily slipped out of the bedroom that night. I thought she was an obstacle in my spiritual pursuit. But looking back, I realise, it was a mistake. For a person who has his goals fixed, obstacles never happen.He was implying that for the bliss of salvation, one need not run away from the material world and its most slandered component the wife. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1227589.cms Um...and which volume of the recorded sayings of Buddha is this from?. It is the ONLY recorded saying of Buddha. The rest were made up by admirers and followers after he died. Ah, I see. Who wrote it down, his wife? Maybe she was the Dr. Phil fan... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha.......the world's first Fool.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert Gimbel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jesus has similar stories of his relationship with God; and his other relationships... He told his Mother, that she was not his mother; Rather as he became 'Soul-Realized'; The perception became; That he was purely from Heaven; And perhaps, all of us at some point; Have to give up all of the attachments; Of the ego; Family relationships, business, money, home, everything; Eventually everything, becomes secondary to Samhadhi, and the; The passion to serve the Holy One, The Sage... No we don't. That is the whole point of the Vedic way...and the Buddha's later realization.(too late to save his errant and useless path.) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha.......the world's first Fool.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Buddha rebelled against his tradition and the brahmin order, only later to realise he was wrong. The first of many mistakes and inferior approach to knowledge: Prince Siddhartha who deserted his wife when she was not looking, made a confession years later. I stealthily slipped out of the bedroom that night. I thought she was an obstacle in my spiritual pursuit. But looking back, I realise, it was a mistake. For a person who has his goals fixed, obstacles never happen.He was implying that for the bliss of salvation, one need not run away from the material world and its most slandered component the wife. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1227589.cms Um...and which volume of the recorded sayings of Buddha is this from?. It is the ONLY recorded saying of Buddha. The rest were made up by admirers and followers after he died. Ah, I see. Who wrote it down, his wife? A disciple wrote it down. But not much else was recorded during his lifetime. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha.......the world's first Fool.
Considering she was a Jewish mom, I bet she smacked him good for that one! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert Gimbel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jesus has similar stories of his relationship with God; and his other relationships... He told his Mother, that she was not his mother; Rather as he became 'Soul-Realized'; The perception became; That he was purely from Heaven; And perhaps, all of us at some point; Have to give up all of the attachments; Of the ego; Family relationships, business, money, home, everything; Eventually everything, becomes secondary to Samhadhi, and the; The passion to serve the Holy One, The Sage... wrote: Buddha rebelled against his tradition and the brahmin order, only later to realise he was wrong. The first of many mistakes and inferior approach to knowledge: Prince Siddhartha who deserted his wife when she was not looking, made a confession years later. I stealthily slipped out of the bedroom that night. I thought she was an obstacle in my spiritual pursuit. But looking back, I realise, it was a mistake. For a person who has his goals fixed, obstacles never happen.He was implying that for the bliss of salvation, one need not run away from the material world and its most slandered component the wife. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1227589.cms Um...and which volume of the recorded sayings of Buddha is this from?. It is the ONLY recorded saying of Buddha. The rest were made up by admirers and followers after he died. Ah, I see. Who wrote it down, his wife? Maybe she was the Dr. Phil fan... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha.......the world's first Fool.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert Gimbel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jesus has similar stories of his relationship with God; and his other relationships... He told his Mother, that she was not his mother; Rather as he became 'Soul-Realized'; The perception became; That he was purely from Heaven; And perhaps, all of us at some point; Have to give up all of the attachments; Of the ego; Family relationships, business, money, home, everything; Eventually everything, becomes secondary to Samhadhi, and the; The passion to serve the Holy One, The Sage... When does 'eventually' occur? There never really were attachments to family, business, money, home, everything. Try to hold on, and it all turns to dust anyway. It is first a matter of stopping pretending. (Interesting word, 'pretending' or pre-tending; preparing ourselves to care for our assumed future reality, when it arrives, according to our rigid definition of it. Doesn't sound like much fun, does it?) Next we rediscover more intimately than ever, our relationships to Holy family, business, money, home, the Holy everything, embraced as Universal dharma, in complete freedom. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Fischer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The secret of health for both mind and body is not to mourn for the past, worry about the future, or anticipate troubles but to live in the present moment wisely and earnestly. -Buddha We can create our past and future at will, and if we believe we cannot, we should avoid suffering, due to the inadvertent or ignorant creation, by us, of our past and our future. So why not create it, or not, by our conscious intention, instead of falling victim to the apparent external action of our imagined past and future? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha Quote # 1
Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: off_world_beings at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Believe nothing. No matter where you read it, Or who said it, Even if I have said it, Unless it agrees with your own reason And your own common sense. ~ Buddha 6th century bce Indian mystic and founder of Buddhism from The Dhammapada Any of you Buddhists know if this is a valid quote? Might add it to the home page. Yeah, good quote, provided your reason and common sense (referred to in the quote) are sound. Unfortunately, it could also be used to justify views that most people find rather strange, like Bob's view for example (no offense intended Bob). The same criticism goes for one of my favourites: What is good, dude? and what is not good? Need we ask anyone to tell us these things? - Plato (sort of) in Zen And The Art Of Motorcycle Maintenance. JF To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha Quote # 2
Life is suffering - The Buddha Only for those who suffer. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha Quote # 2
The Buddha: He whose inflowing thoughts are dried up, who is unattached to food, whose dwelling place is an empty and imageless release -- the way of such a person is hard to follow, like the path of birds through the sky. 93 When a man's senses have come to peace, like a horses well broken by the trainer, when he is rid of conceit and without inflowing thoughts -- even devas envy such a well set man. 94 Like the earth he is not disturbed, like a great pillar he is firmly set and reliable, like a lake he is free from defilement. There are no more rebirths for such a well set man. 95 Freed by full realisation and at peace, the mind of such a man is at peace, and his speech and action peaceful. 96 He has no need for faith who knows the uncreated, who has cut off rebirth, who has destroyed any opportunity for good or evil, and cast away all desire. He is indeed the ultimate man. 97 Whether in the village or the forest, whether on high ground or low, wherever the enlightened live, that is a delightful spot. 98 Delightful for them are the forests where men find no delight. The desire-free find delight there, for they seek no sensual joys. THIS SOUNDS A LOT LIKE THAT RIG VEDA VERSE:'RICHO ACHARE'. DOES ANYONE REMEMBER IT? DOES ANYONE KNOW THE ACTUAL SANKRIT OR PALI THAT THE BUDDHA WOULD HAVE AQCTUALLY SPOKEN THIS? WHAT IS THE VERSE IN HIS LANGUAGE? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha Quote # 2
How old are you? - Original Message - From: off_world_beings To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 4:27 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha Quote # 2 The Buddha:""He whose inflowing thoughts are dried up, who is unattached to food, whose dwelling place is an empty and imageless release -- the way of such a person is hard to follow, like the path of birds through the sky. 93 When a man's senses have come to peace, like a horses well broken by the trainer, when he is rid of conceit and without inflowing thoughts -- even devas envy such a well set man. 94 Like the earth he is not disturbed, like a great pillar he is firmly set and reliable, like a lake he is free from defilement. There are no more rebirths for such a well set man. 95 Freed by full realisation and at peace, the mind of such a man is at peace, and his speech and action peaceful. 96 He has no need for faith who knows the uncreated, who has cut off rebirth, who has destroyed any opportunity for good or evil, and cast away all desire. He is indeed the ultimate man. 97 Whether in the village or the forest, whether on high ground or low, wherever the enlightened live, that is a delightful spot. 98 Delightful for them are the forests where men find no delight. The desire-free find delight there, for they seek no sensual joys.""THIS SOUNDS A LOT LIKE THAT RIG VEDA VERSE:'RICHO ACHARE'.DOES ANYONE REMEMBER IT?DOES ANYONE KNOW THE ACTUAL SANKRIT OR PALI THAT THE BUDDHA WOULD HAVE AQCTUALLY SPOKEN THIS? WHAT IS THE VERSE IN HIS LANGUAGE?To subscribe, send a message to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/and click 'Join This Group!' To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "rudra_joe" [EMAIL PROTECTED]... wrote: To think that one is only what they are born into is fatalistic and inhuman. To think that Jesus the Jew shaped his philosophy and love for all of humankind merely on the tenets of his fathers was like saying Einstein merely followed up on Newton. Thats not what I said. I said Buddha was born and bred in a Vedic culture and rejected some Vedic practices, and carried some others on and changed some around. Honestly, you don't write as if you know much about Buddha or Buddhism. Sorry, my two piase. Do you know what the three turnings of the wheel of dharma are? If not then please don't speak about the Buddha again as your words are more useless on this topic than cigarette smoke. Besides , Jesus was echoing things laready in his tradition. Its just that he was talking to a bunch of real live people with all the usual faults etc. (Kinda like a liberal living ina red state Same again, what even about the figment Jesus are you speaking about. Have you studied your gnosis and apocrypha? I'd guess not or you would know that Jesus for instance believed that the God of this realm was afeminine who he most likely called Sophia. If that's a shocker then you need to read on and get true to your source material, not true to your ignorance. Try getting outside yourself and expand your reading.My guess is that you already know Hinduism like your cock. skin flips. Been there, done that. As a witch I felt closer to Jesus than most of his professed priests, and when I burned I thought of him on the cross with pity, for they knew not what they did those ignorant fucks. Who kill what they don't understand. What are you on man? -Uh, recently gave up poppy tea. gave up in the past lsd, coke, crack, opiates, and will continue to do shroomies, cacti, herb, and other naturals. What am I not on Man? But guess what? We're at the same dining table. The crumbs of which as Gibran said, are this feast of words. Don't like it don't eat it. Have you ever meditated stoned? Try it, you might be surprised that it's not only still possible but utterly fucking phenomenal. At other times I meditated jonesing from crack after spending two hundred bucks smoking rocks with niggers in the ghetto. Sweatin and shakin. There's no separation for me between religion and my very own guts. That makes me sound crazy at times. Imagine rigpa in opiate withdrawls. If the state of awareness is not there always then it's not there at all. A merely good time friend. Other people can learn from madmen, so you can too. This is where tantra teaches one to hold to the dark and the light, hold to enlightenment, and yet remain to serve and grow, because tantra teaches us that the dark is merely a component of our basic nature, like the NI in the agnim, very necessary for self reflection, nay the anima and unconscious is the source of potential for growth. I've been into this lateley, this darkness theme, because I learned that we October Libras are quite familiar with the occult and we like twisted 13s and walking under ladders and having Crowley's birthday and pigeons flying left and black cats and all that jazz. But on the bright side we can reconcile that with the sattva of our awareness during samadhi. In fact to see the rainbows over Bourbon Street and the light of spirits being poured and raised, yeah, in this deep tamas of the American South deep in the voodoo one sees the heart of God pulsating. I swear before you all that if the Apocalypse comes then they'll throw down in New Orleans like nowhere else on Earth. Oh yeah, the marching bands will play and it would get rowdy in a good way. I'm trying best as I can to relay that there's no tradition for deep thought or cognizance because it is one with the base. True. ---What is?utilizes desire to make us transcend duality. He would send his girlfriend to get them if he forgot them. Great. It could be that the things around us in space all have a correlation in the brain. In fact the brain creates them. And the right things at the right time can cause subtle neuronal and cellular evololution. I don't think that the brain creates the phenomena. The brain is a perceptive organ which is one with the phenomena. That's different. As above so below relates to the whole body and not just the brain so you know, the brain thing is sort of forgetting the cosmic that exists in the skin. Not familiar, get yourself some chocolate Girl. Once you go Black, oh you know the rest. Skin is very cosmic. 14 billion years of evolution in a soft surface primpted and perfected just for you. Now that's intergalactic, or it's _expression_ will someday be. ---I'm sorry Off_World if I sound like an asshole. Even myself I'll change my mind about everything I just said prolly, so I offer it to you. I hate words if they can't capture truth. Truth is hard to
[FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, rudra_joe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, rudra_joe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To think that one is only what they are born into is fatalistic and inhuman. To think that Jesus the Jew shaped his philosophy and love for all of humankind merely on the tenets of his fathers was like saying Einstein merely followed up on Newton. Thats not what I said. I said Buddha was born and bred in a Vedic culture and rejected some Vedic practices, and carried some others on and changed some around. Honestly, you don't write as if you know much about Buddha or Buddhism. Sorry, my two piase. Do you know what the three turnings of the wheel of dharma are? If not then please don't speak about the Buddha again as your words are more useless on this topic than cigarette smoke. Fvck off retard Besides , Jesus was echoing things laready in his tradition. Its just that he was talking to a bunch of real live people with all the usual faults etc. (Kinda like a liberal living ina red state Same again, what even about the figment Jesus are you speaking about. Have you studied your gnosis and apocrypha? I'd guess not or you would know that Jesus for instance believed that the God of this realm was a feminine who he most likely called Sophia. If that's a shocker then you need to read on and get true to your source material, not true to your ignorance. Try getting outside yourself and expand your reading. My guess is that you already know Hinduism like your cock. Fvck off retard skin flips. Been there, done that. As a witch I felt closer to Jesus than most of his professed priests, and when I burned I thought of him on the cross with pity, for they knew not what they did those ignorant fucks. Who kill what they don't understand. What are you on man? -Uh, recently gave up poppy tea. gave up in the past lsd, coke, crack, opiates, and will continue to do shroomies, cacti, herb, and other naturals. What am I not on Man? But guess what? We're at the same dining table. The crumbs of which as Gibran said, are this feast of words. Don't like it don't eat it. Have you ever meditated stoned? Try it, you might be surprised that it's not only still possible but utterly fucking phenomenal. At other times I meditated jonesing from crack after spending two hundred bucks smoking rocks with niggers in the ghetto. Sweatin and shakin. There's no separation for me between religion and my very own guts. That makes me sound crazy at times. Imagine rigpa in opiate withdrawls. If the state of awareness is not there always then it's not there at all. A merely good time friend. Other people can learn from madmen, so you can too. Fvck off retard. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mar 12, 2005, at 3:24 PM, off_world_beings wrote: Whoa. This 'vacaa' has to be the root or related to 'vaccum', since Latin has so much other Sanskrit in it, and Latin always seems to add a 'um' or 'us' on the end. Is this a Sanskrit word? 'Vaacaa'? In the Latin languages the Sanskrit Vac becomes Vox or Voce (It.) or Voice (Eng.). Really? Wow, even better ! Thanks. Amazing. What about the word, 'word'? In some parts of England old english pronounciation (pronounciation that may go far back to Kelt and Gallish languages , which came from Sanskrit, with the Kelts Westward streams of expansion from Afghanistan Pakistan region), is still common in many words. Those speakers would for example speak out from from the Bible were they to speak it out: In the beggining was the Wed , pronounced exactly as Maharishi and many Hindus pronounce 'VED'. I seem to recall that's because Sanskrit 'v' represents an earlier (Proto-Indo-European?) u-sound. Sometimes in Vedic resitation the 'v' in the written text is actually pronounced as an 'u', like in 'look'(I guess; have no idea how each of FfL'ers pronounces the word 'look'...). For instance Rgveda I 35 1, the first line is written like this: hvayaami agniM prathamaM svastaye (I call Agni first for welfare) But the last word (for welfare: svastaye) is pronounced, according to A.A.Macdonell, like 'suastaye'(soo-astaye?). That's the dative singular case form of 'svasti' which is sandhi for 'su' (well) + 'asti' (being). Like our pronounciation of Swastika (svastika), soowastika. It must be a shock for a Hindu to hear someone with this English accent speak this sentance out from the Bible. I don't think there is a connection between 'Ved' and 'word', but I am not totally sure. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha
On Mar 12, 2005, at 8:45 AM, off_world_beings wrote: and that ayurved and sthapatyaved and the six systems of Indian philosphy are a part of what is generally termed a Vedic tradition. First off, I hope you realize that there are several groupings of the Six Darshanas. You are aware that the original word for veda was agama? Saying that early Buddhism was not Vedic, is like saying that Protestantism is not Christianity. I'd tend to agree with the Manimekhalai (a Dravidian work) which (if you feel a need to attribute a prior movement to the Dharma) states that Buddhism is derived from Jainism. It also gives, from the pre-Vedic perspective, where these six darshanas come from. ALL of the six prophets of these darshanas existed *before the writing of Sanskrit.* All of them. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mar 12, 2005, at 8:45 AM, off_world_beings wrote: and that ayurved and sthapatyaved and the six systems of Indian philosphy are a part of what is generally termed a Vedic tradition. First off, I hope you realize that there are several groupings of the Six Darshanas. You are aware that the original word for veda was agama? Lol, then please define what you consider 'Vedic' . Be precise please. I guess the word 'agni' is not Vedic by your extremist view. Thats like saying Moses was not a Jew. Of course he wasn't. There were all sorts of other influences on him. but no-one would say he was not Jewish. Saying that early Buddhism was not Vedic, is like saying that Protestantism is not Christianity. I'd tend to agree with the Manimekhalai (a Dravidian work) which (if you feel a need to attribute a prior movement to the Dharma) states that Buddhism is derived from Jainism. It also gives, from the pre-Vedic perspective, where these six darshanas come from. ALL of the six prophets of these darshanas existed *before the writing of Sanskrit.* All of them. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha
I'd tend to agree with the Manimekhalai (a Dravidian work) which (if you feel a need to attribute a prior movement to the Dharma) states that Buddhism is derived from Jainism. It also gives, from the pre-Vedic perspective, where these six darshanas come from. ALL of the six prophets of these darshanas existed *before the writing of Sanskrit.* All of them. Of course. They are called 'Wisdom'. Which is the word 'Ved' over there. Wisdom was passed on orally from generation to generation until later it was written down. You said the exact same thing about your Zhang Zhung Nyan Gyud tradition. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mar 11, 2005, at 11:58 PM, off_world_beings wrote: I'm afraid not Vaj. It just isn't so. You are talking about an 8th century manuscript. Writing is a phenomenon of the Kali yuga. Some lines, still to this day, are entirely oral. The Zhang Zhung Nyan Gyud was written down relatively recent (when compared to its old history). In satyuga everyone is illiterate, that's so cool! I do remember symbols being used, though. Herioglyphic like. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
snip
Do you know the meaning of the word 'Ved'. It is a word in a
language. It has a meaning. Write the meaning of this word in
English as best you can. Then re-write your speil.
This supports the point I made in a recent previous post about the
difference between the
way you and Vaj use this word. Your use is more linguistic than
historical. Do you consider
this a fair assessment? I'm thinking probably not, but hoping your
assumed rebuttal will
go a little deeper.
L B S
I wrote something but I lost it . Stupid computers.
Suffice to say 'Ved' is a word that is used by a vast culture. It
gives us our word 'wisdom', 'Wizard', ('Witch' may be a version of
it), also 'vision'. Even ' the three wise men' of the Bible, who
came from the East, cannot escape. (They are also called ' the
Majii' which gives us our word 'magician', and I wonder is it is
related to the word 'maya'.)
'Ved' means 'knowledge' or 'wisdom'.
If a Vedic culture exists 2,000 years from now, then it may infuse
aspects of our science into it (those that are life-supporting,
evolutionary, and useful) and drop the non-useful aspects. It may
call its knowledge collection 'Knowledge', 'Wisdom ', or 'Ved'.
Vedic culture (which just means wisdom) assimilates useful
knowledge. (like the Borg:-) That is its nature.
If aspects of Buddhism are found useful they too will be
incorporated. I also assume aspects of the Vedic tradition that are
nto useful to evolution, if such there be, will be dropped. Perhaps
that what Buddha was trying to do, but it happens in a more natural
way, on a human level. Although Maharishi is definately engaged in
trying to re-estblish a system by which to live.
Other interesting words off the top of my head:
'Agni', through 'angirasas' gives us our word 'angel'. 'Deva' gives
us our word 'divine'. The 'Sidh' of the ancient Kelts (who came from
the Vedic region) were ' beings of light' with the 'powers of the
Sidh', very similar in concept to 'Sidhis'. There is an ancient
Keltic God (possibly earlier) called 'Buddh', who some think is
related to the Buddha story, but is probably more ancient than that
and is a remnent of the concept of 'buddhi' and 'buddhas'.
Thanks for your response. It seems to answer my question.
L B S
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha
On Mar 12, 2005, at 10:42 AM, peterklutz wrote: I do remember symbols being used, though. Herioglyphic like. Language will be all para and pashyanti. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mar 12, 2005, at 10:42 AM, peterklutz wrote: I do remember symbols being used, though. Herioglyphic like. Language will be all para and pashyanti. I could do with a translation.. Para? Pashyanti? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, peterklutz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I can now see why Satygua would be Heaven on Earth: women will no longer talk. Wow... heterosexist *and* misogynistic! I can't say as it comes as any surprise. Alex To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: vaacaa (speech). Well, paraa might be 'transcendental, unmanifest (speech)' Whoa. This 'vacaa' has to be the root or related to 'vaccum', since Latin has so much other Sanskrit in it, and Latin always seems to add a 'um' or 'us' on the end. Is this a Sanskrit word? 'Vaacaa'? SANSKRIT: Vaacaa = 'transcendental' , 'unmanifest'. Sorry, but vaacaa means 'speech'. Just noticed that also a related word vaac is feminine. I think its nominative singular (the basic form, so to speak) is vaak. Thus paraa vaacaa or paraa vaak might mean 'unmanifest speech'. Have no idea whether vaak is related to Latin vacuum or not. Oh ok , I misread the thing. Sorry. Good, I'll sleep better now :-/ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha
On Mar 12, 2005, at 3:24 PM, off_world_beings wrote: Whoa. This 'vacaa' has to be the root or related to 'vaccum', since Latin has so much other Sanskrit in it, and Latin always seems to add a 'um' or 'us' on the end. Is this a Sanskrit word? 'Vaacaa'? In the Latin languages the Sanskrit Vac becomes Vox or Voce (It.) or Voice (Eng.). To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mar 12, 2005, at 3:24 PM, off_world_beings wrote: Whoa. This 'vacaa' has to be the root or related to 'vaccum', since Latin has so much other Sanskrit in it, and Latin always seems to add a 'um' or 'us' on the end. Is this a Sanskrit word? 'Vaacaa'? In the Latin languages the Sanskrit Vac becomes Vox or Voce (It.) or Voice (Eng.). ** The American Heritage dictionary links definitions to an appendix of Indo-European roots. The root for vacuum is eu. The entry in the appendix reads: Lacking, empty. *** Paraphrasing and skipping a bit because diacritics and special characters are not available, we find this root showing up in: The English wane and wanton. Norse, to lack, want. Latin vanus, empty: vain, vanity, vaunt, evanesce, vanish. Latin vacare, to be empty: vacant, vacate, vacation, vacuity, vacuum, evacuate. Extended forms: void, avoid, devoid. Extended and suffixed forms: waste, devastate. L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
