Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Stand up and be counted (George Carlin - Who Really Controls America)
authfriend wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Yes, she probably would have dismissed him out of hand just because >> > he was a Freemason, which is one reason I didn't bring him up. But > the thing about Pike is that not only did he predict WWIII, he also > predicted WWI and WWII accurately long before they happened. Would > that carry any weight with her? Moreover, he studied at Harvard. > > Angela, this kind of nonsense is why I don't take > you seriously on this conspiracy stuff, and why I > find your reluctance to cite your sources very > suspicious. > > First, to dismiss somebody out of hand just because > he was a Freemason, obviously I'd have to also dismiss > out of hand many of the most prominent figures in > modern history, so that's just a ridiculous surmise > on your part. > > But there are plenty of other good reasons to dismiss > Pike. > > Second (speaking of the other reasons), it isn't at > all clear that Pike's purported predictions weren't a > fraud, written at a much later date. The prediction of > the third world war is way off anyway, given that it > appears to describe only prolonged conventional, non- > nuclear warfare. In any all-out world war in this day > and age, nuclear weapons would be used, and it would > be over very quickly. If he didn't foresee nuclear > weapons, he wasn't much of a psychic. > > Third, Pike didn't study at Harvard. He passed the > entrance exams but couldn't afford the tuition. And > even if he had, having attended Harvard does not > automatically immunize a person against crackpottery. > > This isn't the first time by a long shot that you've > revealed bad judgment and very poor command of the > facts. Pike was just a starting point and yes when I mentioned him I was well aware of the controversy around him. Do you have any predictions about what will happen in the next 150 years?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Stand up and be counted (George Carlin - Who Really Controls America)
On Dec 3, 2007, at 5:52 PM, Angela Mailander wrote: Any time you have secret societies, especially societies in which the higher you go in rank, the more secretive things are, it is impossible to know what is really going on. The public work is for sure not all there is. A couple of more fallacies from Angela: - Regular Freemasonry is not a secret society, it's a fraternity. - Their rituals are private, but not secret and have been published since the 1700's. - In any regular Masonic lodge it is forbidden to discuss either politics or religion. Anyone doing so would be immediately expelled.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Stand up and be counted (George Carlin - Who Really Controls America)
Richard J. Williams wrote: >>> We're all here, Bharat2. And you're here too; after >>> Delia kicked your but over on Usenet. >>> >>> > Bhairitu wrote: > >> She didn't kick my "but". >> >> > Whipped it; whipped it good. > > Newsgroups: alt.meditation.transcendental > From: Delia > Date: Sun, Sep 26 2004 2:44 pm > Subject: Re: Neocon delusions > http://tinyurl.com/ys3spw Nope, all I did was ask a question in that thread. I wonder if Delia actually voted for Bush in 2004 and if so really regrets it now?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Stand up and be counted (George Carlin - Who Really Controls America)
2007-12-03
Thread
Samadhi Is Much Closer Than You Think -- Really! -- It's A No-Brainer. Who'd've Thunk It?
> In the Atlantic article the author mentions he was told about the > Afghanistan war back in 1999. I too heard through a friend that his > cousin in Navy intelligence said there was a war planned there at that > time too. For many years, at least since the lordly reign of the honorable presumptudunce, Lord RayGun, I have consistently heard from Marines and Sailors that we were planning for war in Iraq, despite Iran being more forefront on our burners back in the day of Ronnie the Dissociative. And once Bubba de Elvis was in orifice, vitriolic convulsions of hatred and contempt erupted from Marines and Sailors about that "god damned mother-f'ing liberal" be done away with immediately and that his presence in the W'haus was interfering with their imperative to wipe out them "sand-[dwellers]" "over there". Every time I witnessed such demented tantrum-addicts over more than two decades I was substantially confused that we could have so many emotionally and morally disequpoised grunts, both in our species and in our military, Ooogha Mooogha. Some were so demonstrably vicious you knew in the core of your being that they'd be the first to jump at an opportunity to 'ssinate the '92 - 2K commander. These were not a few I witnessed this from, they numbered in the hundreds. > Don't forget too that a Pentagon study released a couple years ago that > said that cold would drive populations from the more northerly areas of > the earth. That would really cause some problems. Imagines the North > American hordes invading South America? Perhaps South America, though generally equitorial climates. In the future the North Pacific will particularly be frozen, though I don't know yet how far into the future that will be nor for how long. > I also believe that when you have overpopulation the only way you can > make sure that nobody falls through the cracks is to have a certain > degree of socialism, a safety net so to speak. Capitalism is just too > much of a sink or swim situation and many will drown in such a system. > We're all not made to be entrepreneurs. But I also say let those with > such inclinations explore them but only to a a limited degree not the > absurd accumulation of wealth we see with a tiny portion of the earth's > population. This may be a worthy asset while exploring such options: http://EconomicDemocracy.shows.it/ On 12/3/07, Bhairitu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I've believed for years that the planet is overpopulated for it's > resources. In many ways humanity, like a growth on a human body, is > like an infestation on the planet earth. It is most likely that nature > herself will put (or is putting) forth forces to cull the population. If > she doesn't there are certainly more humane methods to bringing the > human population down over a period of time. There's where I differ > with the supposed elite who want to cull humanity through war, disease > and eugenics. > > I also believe that when you have overpopulation the only way you can > make sure that nobody falls through the cracks is to have a certain > degree of socialism, a safety net so to speak. Capitalism is just too > much of a sink or swim situation and many will drown in such a system. > We're all not made to be entrepreneurs. But I also say let those with > such inclinations explore them but only to a a limited degree not the > absurd accumulation of wealth we see with a tiny portion of the earth's > population. > > The US consumes 25% of the world's resources yet we are only 7% of the > world's population. Balance needs to be restored and it won't be > pretty. On Black Friday as I wandered through the local Fry's > superstore I wondered where all these people whose carts were filled to > the brim and were lined up so deep it would take two hours for them to > check out, where were they getting the money to buy these things? My > bet is most were spending income that is supposed to be there the next > couple of years. That might turn out to have been a bad gamble. > > One of the "theories" regarding 9/11 is that there is a war going on > within the US military. Two opposing factions are waring with each > other and 9/11 was part of the war game gone out of control. That would > mean we have an unstable military and certainly foreign countries would > be aware of it. It is also "theorized" that the B-52 with the nukes > that flew across the country a couple months back was destined to use > those in Iraq and there was a mutiny over it (some crew members wound up > having "accidents."). That too might be a clue if there is such a thing > going on. And I don't think it would be hard to keep it somewhat secret > and what slips out seems so far fetched people don't pass it on. They > just think their relative in the military is telling them a big one. > > In the Atlantic article the author mentions he was told about the > Afghanistan war back in 1999. I too heard through a friend that his > cousin in Nav
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Stand up and be counted (George Carlin - Who Really Controls America)
I've believed for years that the planet is overpopulated for it's resources. In many ways humanity, like a growth on a human body, is like an infestation on the planet earth. It is most likely that nature herself will put (or is putting) forth forces to cull the population. If she doesn't there are certainly more humane methods to bringing the human population down over a period of time. There's where I differ with the supposed elite who want to cull humanity through war, disease and eugenics. I also believe that when you have overpopulation the only way you can make sure that nobody falls through the cracks is to have a certain degree of socialism, a safety net so to speak. Capitalism is just too much of a sink or swim situation and many will drown in such a system. We're all not made to be entrepreneurs. But I also say let those with such inclinations explore them but only to a a limited degree not the absurd accumulation of wealth we see with a tiny portion of the earth's population. The US consumes 25% of the world's resources yet we are only 7% of the world's population. Balance needs to be restored and it won't be pretty. On Black Friday as I wandered through the local Fry's superstore I wondered where all these people whose carts were filled to the brim and were lined up so deep it would take two hours for them to check out, where were they getting the money to buy these things? My bet is most were spending income that is supposed to be there the next couple of years. That might turn out to have been a bad gamble. One of the "theories" regarding 9/11 is that there is a war going on within the US military. Two opposing factions are waring with each other and 9/11 was part of the war game gone out of control. That would mean we have an unstable military and certainly foreign countries would be aware of it. It is also "theorized" that the B-52 with the nukes that flew across the country a couple months back was destined to use those in Iraq and there was a mutiny over it (some crew members wound up having "accidents."). That too might be a clue if there is such a thing going on. And I don't think it would be hard to keep it somewhat secret and what slips out seems so far fetched people don't pass it on. They just think their relative in the military is telling them a big one. In the Atlantic article the author mentions he was told about the Afghanistan war back in 1999. I too heard through a friend that his cousin in Navy intelligence said there was a war planned there at that time too. Don't forget too that a Pentagon study released a couple years ago that said that cold would drive populations from the more northerly areas of the earth. That would really cause some problems. Imagines the North American hordes invading South America? I never read Watership Down. May have seen the video but that would have been years ago. So much to read, so much to see, so much to do, so little time. Angela Mailander wrote: > Well, Bhairitu, that was certainly the most interesting interview I've seen > lately. How to assess the "reality status" of a media event like that is > more than an ordinary mortal like me can fathom. What is really going on on > this planet in a moment of apparent crisis? Real or imagined? Judy seems to > know. Do you? Where is the truth to be found? > > If the thing can be taken at face value, then it is good news, ai'nt it? > Unless of course those evil dudes are right: we're herd animals and herds > need to be culled. If there's foxes and a thousand other elil making sure > the rabbit population stays in healthy balance, fine. But who's gonna do it > for us if not us? Right? Is that their thinking? Put yourself in Rocky's > place: what would your thinking be, assuming he wants to rule well, yet he > means to rule. His ultimate aim would have to be to keep this planet and > this world healthy enough to continue to bear our lives in perpetuity? Does > he likely have information not accessible to us? Judy seems to think > government can't keep a secret. Well, that would depend on the social > organization of warren, wouldn't it? > > On the other hand, the available evidence does not rule out ANY point of view > or ANY possibility, including Bronte's (I hope she's lurking). In that case, > of course, we're still herd animals, and they're the elil, well, that would > be a whole 'nother story, wouldn't it? According to the Disclosure Project > we're supposed to believe in space aliens. And are they friendly? Well, > whose story about that would you trust? > > Have you read Watership Down? It's truly one of the immortal books of the > 20th century. > > Bhairitu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Former > Forbes journalist Benjamin Fulford with David Rockefeller: > http://freedomvideo.org/blog/?p=521 > > How We Would Fight China (overview of military strategies):
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Stand up and be counted (George Carlin - Who Really Controls America)
Well, Bhairitu, that was certainly the most interesting interview I've seen lately. How to assess the "reality status" of a media event like that is more than an ordinary mortal like me can fathom. What is really going on on this planet in a moment of apparent crisis? Real or imagined? Judy seems to know. Do you? Where is the truth to be found? If the thing can be taken at face value, then it is good news, ai'nt it? Unless of course those evil dudes are right: we're herd animals and herds need to be culled. If there's foxes and a thousand other elil making sure the rabbit population stays in healthy balance, fine. But who's gonna do it for us if not us? Right? Is that their thinking? Put yourself in Rocky's place: what would your thinking be, assuming he wants to rule well, yet he means to rule. His ultimate aim would have to be to keep this planet and this world healthy enough to continue to bear our lives in perpetuity? Does he likely have information not accessible to us? Judy seems to think government can't keep a secret. Well, that would depend on the social organization of warren, wouldn't it? On the other hand, the available evidence does not rule out ANY point of view or ANY possibility, including Bronte's (I hope she's lurking). In that case, of course, we're still herd animals, and they're the elil, well, that would be a whole 'nother story, wouldn't it? According to the Disclosure Project we're supposed to believe in space aliens. And are they friendly? Well, whose story about that would you trust? Have you read Watership Down? It's truly one of the immortal books of the 20th century. Bhairitu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Former Forbes journalist Benjamin Fulford with David Rockefeller: http://freedomvideo.org/blog/?p=521 How We Would Fight China (overview of military strategies): http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200506/kaplan UK Department of Defense Document on strategic trends 2007-2036. Bet there is a US one too, bet it is "classified." 6 MB: http://www.cuttingthroughthematrix.com/articles/strat_trends_23jan07.pdf Angela Mailander wrote: > Any time you have secret societies, especially societies in which the higher > you go in rank, the more secretive things are, it is impossible to know what > is really going on. The public work is for sure not all there is. > > Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Dec 3, 2007, at 4:41 PM, new.morning wrote: > > > But > >>> the thing about Pike is that not only did he predict WWIII, he also >>> predicted WWI and WWII accurately long before they happened. >>> > > He sounds like quite a guy. > > > > Most of the stuff you read would technically, from the point of view of > Masonic scholars, be considered "Anti-Masonry". There was even a prominent > political movement at one time in USA (particularly prominent in my native > Pennsylvania) called the "Anti-Masonry Party". IIRC they even almost got > someone into the White House. Masonic scholarship is no longer some fringe > thing and we now even have several endowed chairs of Masonic research in > Europe and in the British Isles not to mention private and public Masonic > research societies. And to that caliber of scholarship, unless there's > something serious I missed in my reading of Pike's manuscripts, his popular > written works and final ritual, it would be considered BS. But then I'm not > a big AASR Southern Jurisdiction fan or a Pike fan (I'm from the Northern > Jurisdiction, we're more sattvic :-)). They're all modern rites, not truly > ancient. If you want to know real old Speculative Masonry, you go to the > Ancient York Rite, not the > Scottish one. > > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Stand up and be counted (George Carlin - Who Really Controls America)
Former Forbes journalist Benjamin Fulford with David Rockefeller: http://freedomvideo.org/blog/?p=521 How We Would Fight China (overview of military strategies): http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200506/kaplan UK Department of Defense Document on strategic trends 2007-2036. Bet there is a US one too, bet it is "classified." 6 MB: http://www.cuttingthroughthematrix.com/articles/strat_trends_23jan07.pdf Angela Mailander wrote: > Any time you have secret societies, especially societies in which the higher > you go in rank, the more secretive things are, it is impossible to know what > is really going on. The public work is for sure not all there is. > > Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Dec 3, 2007, at 4:41 PM, new.morning wrote: > > > But > >>> the thing about Pike is that not only did he predict WWIII, he also >>> predicted WWI and WWII accurately long before they happened. >>> > > He sounds like quite a guy. > > > > Most of the stuff you read would technically, from the point of view of > Masonic scholars, be considered "Anti-Masonry". There was even a prominent > political movement at one time in USA (particularly prominent in my native > Pennsylvania) called the "Anti-Masonry Party". IIRC they even almost got > someone into the White House. Masonic scholarship is no longer some fringe > thing and we now even have several endowed chairs of Masonic research in > Europe and in the British Isles not to mention private and public Masonic > research societies. And to that caliber of scholarship, unless there's > something serious I missed in my reading of Pike's manuscripts, his popular > written works and final ritual, it would be considered BS. But then I'm not a > big AASR Southern Jurisdiction fan or a Pike fan (I'm from the Northern > Jurisdiction, we're more sattvic :-)). They're all modern rites, not truly > ancient. If you want to know real old Speculative Masonry, you go to the > Ancient York Rite, not the > Scottish one. > > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com >
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Stand up and be counted (George Carlin - Who Really Controls America)
On Dec 3, 2007, at 5:18 PM, Vaj wrote: Anti-Masonry Party Oops, The Anti-Masonic Party, my faux pas.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Stand up and be counted (George Carlin - Who Really Controls America)
Any time you have secret societies, especially societies in which the higher you go in rank, the more secretive things are, it is impossible to know what is really going on. The public work is for sure not all there is. Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Dec 3, 2007, at 4:41 PM, new.morning wrote: But > > the thing about Pike is that not only did he predict WWIII, he also > > predicted WWI and WWII accurately long before they happened. He sounds like quite a guy. Most of the stuff you read would technically, from the point of view of Masonic scholars, be considered "Anti-Masonry". There was even a prominent political movement at one time in USA (particularly prominent in my native Pennsylvania) called the "Anti-Masonry Party". IIRC they even almost got someone into the White House. Masonic scholarship is no longer some fringe thing and we now even have several endowed chairs of Masonic research in Europe and in the British Isles not to mention private and public Masonic research societies. And to that caliber of scholarship, unless there's something serious I missed in my reading of Pike's manuscripts, his popular written works and final ritual, it would be considered BS. But then I'm not a big AASR Southern Jurisdiction fan or a Pike fan (I'm from the Northern Jurisdiction, we're more sattvic :-)). They're all modern rites, not truly ancient. If you want to know real old Speculative Masonry, you go to the Ancient York Rite, not the Scottish one. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Stand up and be counted (George Carlin - Who Really Controls America)
On Dec 3, 2007, at 4:41 PM, new.morning wrote: But > > the thing about Pike is that not only did he predict WWIII, he also > > predicted WWI and WWII accurately long before they happened. He sounds like quite a guy. Most of the stuff you read would technically, from the point of view of Masonic scholars, be considered "Anti-Masonry". There was even a prominent political movement at one time in USA (particularly prominent in my native Pennsylvania) called the "Anti-Masonry Party". IIRC they even almost got someone into the White House. Masonic scholarship is no longer some fringe thing and we now even have several endowed chairs of Masonic research in Europe and in the British Isles not to mention private and public Masonic research societies. And to that caliber of scholarship, unless there's something serious I missed in my reading of Pike's manuscripts, his popular written works and final ritual, it would be considered BS. But then I'm not a big AASR Southern Jurisdiction fan or a Pike fan (I'm from the Northern Jurisdiction, we're more sattvic :-)). They're all modern rites, not truly ancient. If you want to know real old Speculative Masonry, you go to the Ancient York Rite, not the Scottish one.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Stand up and be counted (George Carlin - Who Really Controls America)
He was a Satanist, but it should be noted that to him, Lucifer, as the name says, was the Prince of Light who was on the side of mankind, while the Old Testament god seemed cruel and evil to him--Blake would have agreed. The Old Testament god is forever smiting folks for no good reason. Be that as it may, Pike was certainly not a boring character. One of the problems with history as taught by the academic establishment is that they give you the impression that wars are fought to defeat nations. Wars, instead, are planned and fought to create certain conditions. "new.morning" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: But > > the thing about Pike is that not only did he predict WWIII, he also > > predicted WWI and WWII accurately long before they happened. He sounds like quite a guy. "Very few outsiders know about the intimate plans of Albert Pike and the architects of the New World Order. In the 19th Century Albert Pike established a framework for bringing about the One World Order. . More than a hundred years ago, a known Satanist and leading Freemason may have anticipated the recent events in London. Albert Pike's plan was to foment three world wars with the third and final war opening the way for the introduction of a new global faith, a religion that would have Lucifer as its idol. Diabolically inspired, Pike's vision was to pit Muslim's against Jews and Christians across the planet and with the outrages in London, and the media's portrayal of elements of Islam as "extremist", one has to wonder whether we are not seeing Pike's plan come to pass. After all, investigations into the atrocities are being led by some of Britain's top policemen many of whom are thought to be Freemasons. Indeed, membership and participation in Freemasonry is considered the prime criteria in promotion in Britain's police force. Could they be following a plan first outlined by modern Freemasonry's founder, Albert Pike? Given this, and the fact that Britain has seen a massive influx of various faiths and races, could this indeed be the first sparks of what is intended to be a global conflagration? We leave you to decide... ... In 1869, he [Pike] was a top leader in the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. Pike was said to be a Satanist, who indulged in the occult, and he apparently possessed a bracelet which he used to summon Lucifer, with whom he had constant communication. He was the Grand Master of a Luciferian group known as the Order of the Palladium (or Sovereign Council of Wisdom), which had been founded in Paris in 1737. Palladism had been brought to Greece from Egypt by Pythagoras in the fifth century, and it was this cult of Satan that was introduced to the inner circle of the Masonic lodges. It was aligned with the Palladium of the Templars. In 1801, Issac Long, a Jew, brought a statue of Baphomet (Satan) to Charleston, South Carolina, where he helped to establish the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite. Long apparently chose Charleston because it was geographically located on the 33rd parallel of latitude (incidentally, so is Baghdad), and this council is considered to be the Mother Supreme Council of all Masonic Lodges of the World. Pike was Long's successor, and he changed the name of the Order to the New and Reformed Palladian Rite (or Reformed Palladium). .. Pike's right-hand man was Phileas Walder, from Switzerland, who was a former Lutheran minister, a Masonic leader, occultist, and spiritualist. Pike also worked closely with Giusseppe Mazzini of Italy (1805-1872) who was a 33rd degree Mason, who became head of the Illuminati in 1834, and who founded the Mafia in 1860. Together with Mazzini, Lord Henry Palmerston of England (1784-1865, 33rd degree Mason), and Otto von Bismarck from Germany (1815-1898, 33rd degree Mason), Albert Pike intended to use the Palladian Rite to create a Satanic umbrella group that would tie all Masonic groups together. ... Adam Weishaupt (1748 - 1811) formed the Order of Perfectibilists on May 1, 1776 (to this day celebrated as May Day throughout many western countries), which later became known as the Illuminati, a secret society whose name means "Enlightened Ones". Although the Order was founded to provide an opportunity for the free exchange of ideas, Weishaupt's background as a Jesuit seems to have influenced the actual character of the society, such that the express aim of this Order became to abolish Christianity, and overturn all civil government. An Italian revolutionary leader, Giusseppe Mazzini (1805-1872), a 33rd degree Mason, was selected by the Illuminati to head their worldwide operations in 1834. (Mazzini also founded the Mafia in 1860). Because of Mazzini's revolutionary activities in Europe, the Bavarian government cracked down on the Illuminati and other secret societies for allegedly plotting a massive overthrow of Europe's mona
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Stand up and be counted (George Carlin - Who Really Controls America)
On Dec 3, 2007, at 3:24 PM, Angela Mailander wrote: Yes, she probably would have dismissed him out of hand just because he was a Freemason, which is one reason I didn't bring him up. But the thing about Pike is that not only did he predict WWIII, he also predicted WWI and WWII accurately long before they happened. Would that carry any weight with her? Moreover, he studied at Harvard. He also was one of the most blatant plagiarizers I've read. He lifted whole sections of English translation (from the French) of Eliphas Levi, among others. It's only in the last decade or so that we have several scholarly and impeccable biographies and studies on Pike.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Stand up and be counted (George Carlin - Who Really Controls America)
Yes, she probably would have dismissed him out of hand just because he was a Freemason, which is one reason I didn't bring him up. But the thing about Pike is that not only did he predict WWIII, he also predicted WWI and WWII accurately long before they happened. Would that carry any weight with her? Moreover, he studied at Harvard. Bhairitu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: The first reference I can think of regarding world wars being planned all along would have been Albert Pike, the Freemason, who wrote of it back in the 1800's. But Judy would have dismissed that one out of hand as being "wacko conspiracy stuff" even if wealthy Europeans valued his advice. Angela Mailander wrote: > Why would I smell a fish in your request for sources? Two reasons. Maybe > because you called me a Nazi? There is some past history in which you have > behaved very badly with me in my estimation, and I was told by others that > it isn't personal, that this is just your style of interacting with people. > Indeed, I've seen you do it with others, and I don't like it any better when > it is directed at them than when it is directed at me. It is simply > uncultured behavior and I have no wish to contribute to it in any way. > > The second reason I hesitated to give you a few names (you asked for > historians, not their work) is just because I am a scholar. Giving you a > few sources is an utterly inadequate substitute for ten years' worth of > scholarly research, and only someone who is not a scholar would even ask > such a thing. Giving you just a few names (or sources) leaves me completely > open to adverse criticism. > > If I thought you would actually read some books, then that would be > different; I could recommend where you might begin and how you might avoid > some of the dead ends I had to explore to get where I am. But I do not get > the sense that you wish to engage in any activity that would a) tend to > vindicate me, and b) educate yourself. > > The history of Nazi Germany has been suppressed by American academic > historians. There have been a few courageous souls who have published their > work anyway, risking their careers and livelihoods. If you really were > seriously interested in this question, rather than wanting to dismiss the > possibility of conspiracy out of hand without any serious investigation, > then I would begin with Gary Allen's "The Rockefeller Papers" and with > Anthony Sutton's "Wallstreet and the Rise of Hitler." His "Wallstreet and > the Bolshevik Revolution" would be another good choice. But again, these > two men would be a bare bones beginning. You could not draw any hard > conclusions based on their work alone. At a minimum, you would not only > have to read their books, you'd also have to follow up on all their sources, > as I have done. This would be a full-time assignment for a good semester's > work. Obviously, I am not under the illusion that you would do this kind of > work in order to learn that I > am not just talking through my hat. Yet, there is no other way to > determine whether or not I am. > > A conversation in a forum such as this is not a scholarly venue. I can > present my conclusions, but not the ten year process (which actually also > includes a life time of experience as someone born in Nazi Germany) that got > me where I am. So why talk about it at all? Because we are in danger as I > write of going down that road again. It may, in fact, be too late. But > still there is hope that, somehow, the American people won't walk into a > fascist regime as blindly as did the German people. The ten steps that Naomi > Wolf details are crude. By the time such things happen, it is almost too > late. What about the brain washing that passes for education and that leads > up to it being possible to fool a whole people into ignoring what is plain > to see right in front of their eyes? > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Stand up and be counted (George Carlin - Who Really Controls America)
On Dec 3, 2007, at 2:51 PM, Bhairitu wrote: That's funny, I was thinking what a "fussbudget" Judy is becoming these days (some would say she's always been one) and Schultz himself characterized Lucy as a "fussbudget." :) So Judy, do you really want to be perceived as a "fussbudget?" :D Too late.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Stand up and be counted (George Carlin - Who Really Controls America)
The first reference I can think of regarding world wars being planned all along would have been Albert Pike, the Freemason, who wrote of it back in the 1800's. But Judy would have dismissed that one out of hand as being "wacko conspiracy stuff" even if wealthy Europeans valued his advice. Angela Mailander wrote: > Why would I smell a fish in your request for sources? Two reasons. Maybe > because you called me a Nazi? There is some past history in which you have > behaved very badly with me in my estimation, and I was told by others that it > isn't personal, that this is just your style of interacting with people. > Indeed, I've seen you do it with others, and I don't like it any better when > it is directed at them than when it is directed at me. It is simply > uncultured behavior and I have no wish to contribute to it in any way. > > The second reason I hesitated to give you a few names (you asked for > historians, not their work) is just because I am a scholar. Giving you a few > sources is an utterly inadequate substitute for ten years' worth of > scholarly research, and only someone who is not a scholar would even ask such > a thing. Giving you just a few names (or sources) leaves me completely open > to adverse criticism. > > If I thought you would actually read some books, then that would be > different; I could recommend where you might begin and how you might avoid > some of the dead ends I had to explore to get where I am. But I do not get > the sense that you wish to engage in any activity that would a) tend to > vindicate me, and b) educate yourself. > > The history of Nazi Germany has been suppressed by American academic > historians. There have been a few courageous souls who have published their > work anyway, risking their careers and livelihoods. If you really were > seriously interested in this question, rather than wanting to dismiss the > possibility of conspiracy out of hand without any serious investigation, then > I would begin with Gary Allen's "The Rockefeller Papers" and with Anthony > Sutton's "Wallstreet and the Rise of Hitler." His "Wallstreet and the > Bolshevik Revolution" would be another good choice. But again, these two > men would be a bare bones beginning. You could not draw any hard conclusions > based on their work alone. At a minimum, you would not only have to read > their books, you'd also have to follow up on all their sources, as I have > done. This would be a full-time assignment for a good semester's work. > Obviously, I am not under the illusion that you would do this kind of work in > order to learn that I > am not just talking through my hat. Yet, there is no other way to determine > whether or not I am. > > A conversation in a forum such as this is not a scholarly venue. I can > present my conclusions, but not the ten year process (which actually also > includes a life time of experience as someone born in Nazi Germany) that got > me where I am. So why talk about it at all? Because we are in danger as I > write of going down that road again. It may, in fact, be too late. But still > there is hope that, somehow, the American people won't walk into a fascist > regime as blindly as did the German people. The ten steps that Naomi Wolf > details are crude. By the time such things happen, it is almost too late. > What about the brain washing that passes for education and that leads up to > it being possible to fool a whole people into ignoring what is plain to see > right in front of their eyes? >
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Stand up and be counted (George Carlin - Who Really Controls America)
TurquoiseB wrote: > It's like Lucy sweetly inviting Charley Brown > to kick the football. > > What sane person would believe that Lucy is > really going to hold the football for him this > time, when for *years* it's always been a > "setup" for someone intent on making him look > stupid? > > Same with Judy's intent. It's pretty much a > GIVEN. One doesn't need to know the specifics > of it, because as she herself said, the subtle > *intent* of her "setups" come through loud > and clear in the written language, just as it > would in verbal language. Just as no one sane > would believe that Lucy really wants Charley > Brown to kick the football, no matter how > sweetly she tried to disguise the intent > behind the invitation, no one sane who has > watched Judy's style over the years would > believe that she really wants a real conver- > sation when she pretends to be asking for one. > She's just setting the victim up for another of > her attempts at either belittling them or > putting them down or casting doubt on their > integrity. > That's funny, I was thinking what a "fussbudget" Judy is becoming these days (some would say she's always been one) and Schultz himself characterized Lucy as a "fussbudget." :) So Judy, do you really want to be perceived as a "fussbudget?" :D
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Stand up and be counted (George Carlin - Who Really Controls America)
authfriend wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> authfriend wrote: >> >>> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu wrote: >>> > > I've been arguing and sometimes agreeing with Judy for years so my POV comes with experience. >>> And like Barry, Bhairitu has developed the siddhi >>> of being able to determine why I post what I post >>> without knowing *what* I've posted. >>> >> "For the record" Judy, I read the thread. >> > > Don't think so... > > >> And I was not commenting at all about "why" you post. >> > > Yes, you were. You wrote, "Judy is just trying to > drag you down and make you waste messages on a > reply." > That's your "tactic", not a "why." Do you feel this is your "why?" > I'm really getting tired of your misrepresentations, > Bhairitu. > > Do you want to continue feeling this way?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Stand up and be counted (George Carlin - Who Really Controls America)
It was a question, Judy. Did you call me a Nazi? Someone on this forum did. If you did not, then I apologize for even suggesting it. The substantive message underneath is that you did insult me gratuitously on a number of occasions, and I am therefore suspicious of you. I've seen you set others up. I will not document this because it would entail the work of going through past posts. I am going on an impression that I have formed on the basis of your interaction with me and with others. I happen to agree with you on your recent and, possibly, ongoing critique of Vaj, but your manner is still rude and inappropriate. authfriend <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Why would I smell a fish in your request for sources? Two reasons. Maybe because you called me a Nazi? I *beg* your pardon? Document this, please, before we go any further. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Stand up and be counted (George Carlin - Who Really Controls America)
Why would I smell a fish in your request for sources? Two reasons. Maybe because you called me a Nazi? There is some past history in which you have behaved very badly with me in my estimation, and I was told by others that it isn't personal, that this is just your style of interacting with people. Indeed, I've seen you do it with others, and I don't like it any better when it is directed at them than when it is directed at me. It is simply uncultured behavior and I have no wish to contribute to it in any way. The second reason I hesitated to give you a few names (you asked for historians, not their work) is just because I am a scholar. Giving you a few sources is an utterly inadequate substitute for ten years' worth of scholarly research, and only someone who is not a scholar would even ask such a thing. Giving you just a few names (or sources) leaves me completely open to adverse criticism. If I thought you would actually read some books, then that would be different; I could recommend where you might begin and how you might avoid some of the dead ends I had to explore to get where I am. But I do not get the sense that you wish to engage in any activity that would a) tend to vindicate me, and b) educate yourself. The history of Nazi Germany has been suppressed by American academic historians. There have been a few courageous souls who have published their work anyway, risking their careers and livelihoods. If you really were seriously interested in this question, rather than wanting to dismiss the possibility of conspiracy out of hand without any serious investigation, then I would begin with Gary Allen's "The Rockefeller Papers" and with Anthony Sutton's "Wallstreet and the Rise of Hitler." His "Wallstreet and the Bolshevik Revolution" would be another good choice. But again, these two men would be a bare bones beginning. You could not draw any hard conclusions based on their work alone. At a minimum, you would not only have to read their books, you'd also have to follow up on all their sources, as I have done. This would be a full-time assignment for a good semester's work. Obviously, I am not under the illusion that you would do this kind of work in order to learn that I am not just talking through my hat. Yet, there is no other way to determine whether or not I am. A conversation in a forum such as this is not a scholarly venue. I can present my conclusions, but not the ten year process (which actually also includes a life time of experience as someone born in Nazi Germany) that got me where I am. So why talk about it at all? Because we are in danger as I write of going down that road again. It may, in fact, be too late. But still there is hope that, somehow, the American people won't walk into a fascist regime as blindly as did the German people. The ten steps that Naomi Wolf details are crude. By the time such things happen, it is almost too late. What about the brain washing that passes for education and that leads up to it being possible to fool a whole people into ignoring what is plain to see right in front of their eyes? authfriend <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > That was exactly my feeling. I could smell the "set-up" and therefore didn't feel like sending her bibliography. She simply asked for references, and it sounds legit enough, nor would a scholar refuse to give it if it were really an honest question. But I did not feel it honest. So I didn't comply, not wishing to be dragged into another fight with a pig in which everyone gets dirty, but the pig likes it. Angela, why would you fear that legitimate references would drag you into a dirty fight? > Bhairitu sensed the same thing. So what exactly is it with Judy? You guys know her much better than I do. Can it be as simple as feeling taller when she squashes someone else? It isn't even as *complicated* as that. It's simply not true. Barry (and Bhairitu) know--but won't tell you--that I have a thing about dishonesty. I detest it. I go after it wherever I see it. Anybody who's been on FFL for a while knows this. Barry has been a particular target of mine because he is one of the most dishonest people I've ever encountered. Bhairitu isn't at all constitutionally dishonest like Barry, but he can be intellectually sloppy, and he gets upset when he's caught out. In this case, we had had a discussion in which he'd goofed badly, so he's sore at me. As I explained to you before, I'm deeply suspicious of your scholarly qualifications, because you don't behave like any legitimate scholar I've ever encountered. This isn't the first time by any means that you've evaded giving references for your claims. You made a highly controversial claim. You should expect that folks would want to know the basis
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Stand up and be counted (George Carlin - Who Really Controls America)
That was exactly my feeling. I could smell the "set-up" and therefore didn't feel like sending her bibliography. She simply asked for references, and it sounds legit enough, nor would a scholar refuse to give it if it were really an honest question. But I did not feel it honest. So I didn't comply, not wishing to be dragged into another fight with a pig in which everyone gets dirty, but the pig likes it. Bhairitu sensed the same thing. So what exactly is it with Judy? You guys know her much better than I do. Can it be as simple as feeling taller when she squashes someone else? TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu wrote: > > > > Duveyoung wrote: > > > Bhairitu, I think you're a titch too absolute on your > > > critique of Judy. > > > > I've been arguing and sometimes agreeing with Judy for years > > so my POV comes with experience. > > And like Barry, Bhairitu has developed the siddhi > of being able to determine why I post what I post > without knowing *what* I've posted. Since this sentence appeared in Message View, I wound up reading it. And I'll actually reply, because Judy seems so clueless as to *how* we know the intent of many of her posts without even bothering to read them. The answer is simple and Bhairitu nails it above -- past history, and lots of it. When Judy seemingly politely asks someone to "explain" something they said, or to "provide a reference" or send her "a list of historians" or whatever, LONG experience with her personal style of posting tells us that this is merely the first step of a "setup" for what she *really* wants to accomplish, which is another putdown. It's like Lucy sweetly inviting Charley Brown to kick the football. What sane person would believe that Lucy is really going to hold the football for him this time, when for *years* it's always been a "setup" for someone intent on making him look stupid? Same with Judy's intent. It's pretty much a GIVEN. One doesn't need to know the specifics of it, because as she herself said, the subtle *intent* of her "setups" come through loud and clear in the written language, just as it would in verbal language. Just as no one sane would believe that Lucy really wants Charley Brown to kick the football, no matter how sweetly she tried to disguise the intent behind the invitation, no one sane who has watched Judy's style over the years would believe that she really wants a real conver- sation when she pretends to be asking for one. She's just setting the victim up for another of her attempts at either belittling them or putting them down or casting doubt on their integrity. It's just what Judy DOES. It's almost ALL that Judy DOES. She really doesn't have the RANGE or creativity to do much of anything else. So it's really a no-brainer to figure out her intent, based on the nature of the "first setup post" in a series of "setup" posts. In this particular instance, it's clear that she's threatened by Angela, and so has to find some way to put her down, so she's trying to do a "setup" to orchestrate this. The overall problem is this behavior -- Judy is potentially bright and might even have some- thing interesting to say someday IF she can get past this belief that when she "lowers" someone else *she* "stands taller." She doesn't. She's just illustrated the basic petty jealousy that runs her behavior once again, and as a result a few more people have sighed sadly once again and felt sorry for her. They haven't admired the devastating nature of her setup and subequent putdown, they've pitied her. If she figured this out, she'd probably be worth having a discussion with. But she's been running this same number for over twelve years now, with no change in all that time, so it's not likely that she'll ever change. As a result, it really IS not only possible to know in advance what her posts are about from the first "setup" sentence and thus avoid them, it's a no-brainer. Learning not to bother with Judy's posts is a useful and practical *skill* on Fairfield Life. Life's too short to waste on the Lucy's of this world. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Stand up and be counted (George Carlin - Who Really Controls America)
Richard J. Williams wrote: > Bhairitu wrote: > >> Is Delia hanging out here? I haven't seen any >> posts from her yet. >> >> > We're all here, Bharat2. And you're here too; after > Delia kicked your but over on Usenet. > > She didn't kick my "but". > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/156084 > And probably buried deep within one of those morphing prolongated threads. :)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Stand up and be counted (George Carlin - Who Really Controls America)
authfriend wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Duveyoung wrote: >> >>> Bhairitu, I think you're a titch too absolute on your critique of >>> Judy. >>> >>> >> I've been arguing and sometimes agreeing with Judy for years >> so my POV comes with experience. >> > > And like Barry, Bhairitu has developed the siddhi > of being able to determine why I post what I post > without knowing *what* I've posted. "For the record" Judy, I read the thread. And I was not commenting at all about "why" you post. I was just commenting on the need some people have either consciously or subconsciously to carry on prolongated debates long after the key points have been made.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Stand up and be counted (George Carlin - Who Really Controls America)
Yes, just the historians. I started to research the history of the 20th century in 1995. I'd ignored history and politics till then, having had enough of it up to my eyeballs by the time I was 18. It was in the back of my mind, though, because of my friendship with the physics teacher who was an ex SS man, because of my mom's activities as a secret agent for the American occupation army, because of my conversations with my brother-in-law, and because I'd heard European, particularly German, historians and political observers predict the current U.S. scene in the late fifties--which I did not believe at the time. But then in 95 when I heard about American concentration camps for the first time, I had time on my hands and thought it would be cool to get an education in a field in which I knew next to nothing. But, like I said, I do not consider myself an expert in history. "Richard J. Williams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Angela Mailander wrote: > My bibliography is about twenty-five pages. > How much of it do you want? > Just the historians? > > A third war was planned all along, according to > > European historians. > > Judy wrote: > > > Which historians were these, Angela? > > > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Stand up and be counted (George Carlin - Who Really Controls America)
Duveyoung wrote: > Bhairitu, I think you're a titch too absolute on your critique of > Judy. > I've been arguing and sometimes agreeing with Judy for years so my POV comes with experience.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Stand up and be counted (George Carlin - Who Really Controls America)
Yes, the schoolmarm in me dies hard. Duveyoung <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Frankly, I find myself bewildered that Angela and Judy aren't best buds. Both love the small print. If these two ever stop the cat fight, and if they both get on the same side, the rest of us are doomed -- we'd all be minding our p's and q's a whole notch more attentively. Despite its stink, bullshit is, like musk, sometimes pleasant if mixed into the post in small enough quantities. Between these two, who'd get away with anything ever again if they start a tag-team match against the rest of us? Angela, I am impressed by your history, but like me, you do like just to say stuff and hope that memory serves enough to not be caught with your facts askew -- I am surprised at how often I have somehow gotten certain facts "changed" by simply not recalling them regularly enough to top off and freshen them. So far, I think you're delivering some scholarship here, but I do think you're invested in many concepts to the point of being hardwired too much to allow nuancing. But that's just a feeling on my part, don't ask me to sift your posts for why I do have that feeling. I gave over 500 TM first lectures, so I'm a practiced bullshitter, and sometimes I can project that on you, mostly not though. Judy, you're a hard case, like that professor in The Paper Chase -- a good hard, but hardassed too. I don't know why I'm trying to be a shadkhan here, but I do deeply wish you two could have lunch together somedayand do that girly bonding thingy. Bhairitu, I think you're a titch too absolute on your critique of Judy. Barry's attitude needs a two-by-four whacking, and she's got the mojo and motivation.too much in fact, cuz, after kapowing him, geeeze, still she has enough left over for me, and that sucks. Thus, I find myself liking that Barry distracts her to some degree from me! Go Barry! Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Angela, Judy is just trying to drag you down and make you waste messages > on a reply. Just walk away. Many of us here have read or heard the > information you cite regarding that WWII was planned (and also a > WWIII). I'm not going to waste my time on looking up stuff for someone > on the net unless I already have at my fingertips. Sometimes I hear > things while I'm driving around listing to Air America Radio like a > guest on Thom Hartmann or a guest on Alex Jones (who by the way will > often post links to his guest web site or book which sometimes Thom > fails to do). Sometimes I get information from books that have to be > read in their full context or their claim can be easily shot down. And > sometimes I read things years ago (40 or more in some cases) and I won't > remember the source but I remember what was said. > > I, over the years have learned to walk away from trollish flame wars > because I feel I have proven my point only going a few replies deep into > the topic and those who have minds can see I've done so just by reading > the thread. It is not at all about having the last word. > > > Angela Mailander wrote: > > Actually, Judy, any idiot can determine which names in a bibliography are the most "authoritative." Pick up ten books on the same subject, check out the bibliography, and note which names are repeated, which names are quoted by everyone who thinks he's got something to say on a given subject. > > > > And what would it do for you if I named five or six European historians. Would you then know that I told the truth? I don't think so. > > > > authfriend <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander > > wrote: > > > > > > And what would such a list do for you, or for my credibility, > > > since any idiot can copy someone else's bibliography? > > > > But not any idiot would know which names from > > that bibliography are the most authoritative. > > > > > authfriend wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > My bibliography is about twenty-five pages. How much of it > > > > do you want? > > > > > > Oh, let's say five of those you consider the most > > > authoritative. > > > > > > > authfriend wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A third war was planned all along, according to European > > > > > historians. > > > > > > > > Which historians were these, Angela? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends > > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > > > >
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Stand up and be counted (George Carlin - Who Really Controls America)
Thank you, Bhairitu, I think you're right. It is pointless to enter into a disagreement with Judy. It's certainly the case that a few sources do not tell the story of ten years' worth of research into what makes the 20th century tick. And then, even after ten years of research, I cannot say I'm an expert. My expertise lies (double meaning intended) in literary theory and criticism as forms of epistemology and in philosophy of language. I've developed a language teaching methodology (theory and practice) that's light years ahead of the state of the art. I'm also a dynamite cook and seamstress. And I've made a living (not a great living, mind you, but a living) as a practicing artist. I've got the greenest thumb of anyone I know. Plants talk to me. Beyond that I'm as dumb as the next person, and getting dumber year by year. Bhairitu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Angela, Judy is just trying to drag you down and make you waste messages on a reply. Just walk away. Many of us here have read or heard the information you cite regarding that WWII was planned (and also a WWIII). I'm not going to waste my time on looking up stuff for someone on the net unless I already have at my fingertips. Sometimes I hear things while I'm driving around listing to Air America Radio like a guest on Thom Hartmann or a guest on Alex Jones (who by the way will often post links to his guest web site or book which sometimes Thom fails to do). Sometimes I get information from books that have to be read in their full context or their claim can be easily shot down. And sometimes I read things years ago (40 or more in some cases) and I won't remember the source but I remember what was said. I, over the years have learned to walk away from trollish flame wars because I feel I have proven my point only going a few replies deep into the topic and those who have minds can see I've done so just by reading the thread. It is not at all about having the last word. Angela Mailander wrote: > Actually, Judy, any idiot can determine which names in a bibliography are > the most "authoritative." Pick up ten books on the same subject, check out > the bibliography, and note which names are repeated, which names are quoted > by everyone who thinks he's got something to say on a given subject. > > And what would it do for you if I named five or six European historians. > Would you then know that I told the truth? I don't think so. > > authfriend <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: --- In > FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > And what would such a list do for you, or for my credibility, > > since any idiot can copy someone else's bibliography? > > But not any idiot would know which names from > that bibliography are the most authoritative. > > > authfriend <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander > > wrote: > > > > > > My bibliography is about twenty-five pages. How much of it > > > do you want? > > > > Oh, let's say five of those you consider the most > > authoritative. > > > > > authfriend wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > A third war was planned all along, according to European > > > > historians. > > > > > > Which historians were these, Angela? > > > > > > > > > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Stand up and be counted (George Carlin - Who Really Controls America)
TurquoiseB wrote: > Personally, I think you two gals should suck Delia > into this discussion. Then *three* of you could play > "my dick is longer than yours." > > :-) > > Is Delia hanging out here? I haven't seen any posts from her yet. Maybe we should get into a veganism war. :)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Stand up and be counted (George Carlin - Who Really Controls America)
Angela, Judy is just trying to drag you down and make you waste messages on a reply. Just walk away. Many of us here have read or heard the information you cite regarding that WWII was planned (and also a WWIII). I'm not going to waste my time on looking up stuff for someone on the net unless I already have at my fingertips. Sometimes I hear things while I'm driving around listing to Air America Radio like a guest on Thom Hartmann or a guest on Alex Jones (who by the way will often post links to his guest web site or book which sometimes Thom fails to do). Sometimes I get information from books that have to be read in their full context or their claim can be easily shot down. And sometimes I read things years ago (40 or more in some cases) and I won't remember the source but I remember what was said. I, over the years have learned to walk away from trollish flame wars because I feel I have proven my point only going a few replies deep into the topic and those who have minds can see I've done so just by reading the thread. It is not at all about having the last word. Angela Mailander wrote: > Actually, Judy, any idiot can determine which names in a bibliography are the > most "authoritative." Pick up ten books on the same subject, check out the > bibliography, and note which names are repeated, which names are quoted by > everyone who thinks he's got something to say on a given subject. > > And what would it do for you if I named five or six European historians. > Would you then know that I told the truth? I don't think so. > > authfriend <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: --- In > FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > And what would such a list do for you, or for my credibility, > > since any idiot can copy someone else's bibliography? > > But not any idiot would know which names from > that bibliography are the most authoritative. > > > authfriend <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander > > wrote: > > > > > > My bibliography is about twenty-five pages. How much of it > > > do you want? > > > > Oh, let's say five of those you consider the most > > authoritative. > > > > > authfriend wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > A third war was planned all along, according to European > > > > historians. > > > > > > Which historians were these, Angela? > > > > > > > > > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com >
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Stand up and be counted (George Carlin - Who Really Controls America)
My major source is E. R. Carmin. I also like Quina von Brackenhausen, Gerda Hagenau, and a few others--do you read German or French? But here's something everyone might find interesting: Bill Moyers: The Secret Government http://nhnecommunity.ning.com/video/video/show?id=650220%3AVideo%3A13924 authfriend <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Actually, Judy, any idiot can determine which names in a bibliography are the most "authoritative." Pick up ten books on the same subject, check out the bibliography, and note which names are repeated, which names are quoted by everyone who thinks he's got something to say on a given subject. Well, if an idiot can do it, surely you can as well. > And what would it do for you if I named five or six European > historians. Would you then know that I told the truth? I > don't think so. I could certainly find out of you had told the truth about there being European historians who claim "a third war was planned all along." You're stalling, Angela. Let's have the names, please. Asking a scholar for documentation of claims is pretty standard, and any legitimate scholar would be more than happy to provide it. > authfriend <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander > wrote: > > > > And what would such a list do for you, or for my credibility, > > since any idiot can copy someone else's bibliography? > > But not any idiot would know which names from > that bibliography are the most authoritative. > > > authfriend wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander > > wrote: > > > > > > My bibliography is about twenty-five pages. How much of it > > > do you want? > > > > Oh, let's say five of those you consider the most > > authoritative. > > > > > authfriend wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > A third war was planned all along, according to European > > > > historians. > > > > > > Which historians were these, Angela? Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Stand up and be counted (George Carlin - Who Really Controls America)
You are right. I'm outa this "discussion." TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Personally, I think you two gals should suck Delia into this discussion. Then *three* of you could play "my dick is longer than yours." :-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Actually, Judy, any idiot can determine which names in a bibliography are the most "authoritative." Pick up ten books on the same subject, check out the bibliography, and note which names are repeated, which names are quoted by everyone who thinks he's got something to say on a given subject. > > And what would it do for you if I named five or six European historians. Would you then know that I told the truth? I don't think so. > > authfriend <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander > wrote: > > > > And what would such a list do for you, or for my credibility, > > since any idiot can copy someone else's bibliography? > > But not any idiot would know which names from > that bibliography are the most authoritative. > > > authfriend wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander > > wrote: > > > > > > My bibliography is about twenty-five pages. How much of it > > > do you want? > > > > Oh, let's say five of those you consider the most > > authoritative. > > > > > authfriend wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > A third war was planned all along, according to European > > > > historians. > > > > > > Which historians were these, Angela? > > > > > > > > > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Stand up and be counted (George Carlin - Who Really Controls America)
Actually, Judy, any idiot can determine which names in a bibliography are the most "authoritative." Pick up ten books on the same subject, check out the bibliography, and note which names are repeated, which names are quoted by everyone who thinks he's got something to say on a given subject. And what would it do for you if I named five or six European historians. Would you then know that I told the truth? I don't think so. authfriend <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > And what would such a list do for you, or for my credibility, > since any idiot can copy someone else's bibliography? But not any idiot would know which names from that bibliography are the most authoritative. > authfriend <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander > wrote: > > > > My bibliography is about twenty-five pages. How much of it > > do you want? > > Oh, let's say five of those you consider the most > authoritative. > > > authfriend wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander > > wrote: > > > > > > > > A third war was planned all along, according to European > > > historians. > > > > Which historians were these, Angela? > > > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Stand up and be counted (George Carlin - Who Really Controls America)
In whose judgment? authfriend <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > And what would such a list do for you, or for my credibility, > since any idiot can copy someone else's bibliography? But not any idiot would know which names from that bibliography are the most authoritative. > authfriend <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander > wrote: > > > > My bibliography is about twenty-five pages. How much of it > > do you want? > > Oh, let's say five of those you consider the most > authoritative. > > > authfriend wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander > > wrote: > > > > > > > > A third war was planned all along, according to European > > > historians. > > > > Which historians were these, Angela? > > > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Stand up and be counted (George Carlin - Who Really Controls America)
And what would such a list do for you, or for my credibility, since any idiot can copy someone else's bibliography? authfriend <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > My bibliography is about twenty-five pages. How much of it > do you want? Oh, let's say five of those you consider the most authoritative. > authfriend <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander > wrote: > > > > > A third war was planned all along, according to European > > historians. > > Which historians were these, Angela? Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Stand up and be counted (George Carlin - Who Really Controls America)
My bibliography is about twenty-five pages. How much of it do you want? authfriend <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > A third war was planned all along, according to European > historians. Which historians were these, Angela? Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Stand up and be counted (George Carlin - Who Really Controls America)
authfriend wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >> But I >> just don't know what to do with the material at prisonplanet.com >> -- it's very disturbing data that can be googled, ya know? >> > > And have you googled it? > > Are you aware that PrisonPlanet.com is a *right-wing* > site that claims, among other things, that global > warming is a hoax? > For the record Prison Planet is not "right-wing." Alex Jones rails against the right wing. He sees himself more as a "constitutional conservative" but I would say he is all over the place. He hosts a broad variety of views. There are a lot of libertarians who hang out on the forum there who would bristle if you called them right wing. Righties call up Alex on his show and call him a liberal. On the global warming thing what they are concerned about is the government and large corporations using "global warming" as a way to control the populace. They're concerned about these initiatives like "carbon taxes" and all of a sudden a lot of energy companies jumping on the global warming bandwagon. And there are sponsors on his show for natural and organic products, solar energy, water filter products, etc. And a few wacko sounding Christian groups (non religious right) who run adds for their magazines, etc.)
