Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
From that study in CA, the American Bird Conservancy was saying that the answer was to trap and kill the cats. That's the part that really irritated me. Yeah, cats killed a lot of those birds. The little tigers will kill most anything that moves. It's their instinct. But the cats got there somehow and even before people fed them they were there and multiplying like crazy. Because of a lot of different reasons and a lot of studies, Trap-Neuter-Return the only way that will have the long term results of cutting the population of free-roaming cats way down. But, those bird brains just want to kill all the cats as though that will fix everything. I like birds and I like the people in the ABC, and I really don't think of them as bird brains I was just being funny, but the idiots that run the thing and making those comments about killing the cats are short-sighted. Everytime I hear something from the ABC I just get upset before even knowing what they're going to say because I know how they feel about free-roaming cats and I know they hate TNR. Obviously, I'm a big advocate of TNR. What I'd really like to say to them is that I wonder how many of those birds are killed when they build the condos and board walks and everything else along the beaches. They need to spend their time fighting that battle before trying to have the cats killed. Maybe they do fight those battles too, but that's my angry comment, and I know it doesn't change the fact that the cats kill the poor birds, but sometimes you just want to tell people off. Oh well, that's my middle of the night rantings about the ABC. I don't like cats killing birds, mice, chipmonks, or even the poor snakes and keeping them inside is the best thing for the cats too. I don't mind using the cat being killers argument to motivate people keeping their pets indoors but leave the ferals alone and don't start talking about killing them. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 16:56:46 -0700 From: hingebacktorto...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors Yes, the number one cause of bird extinction is habitat loss, but cats are #2. There's a well-known study that was conducted on a couple of adjacent beaches in California, one with a feral cat population and one without. The beach that is home to feral cats has no birds - remember that most shorebirds are ground nesters - while the cat-free beach supports a healthy bird population. Of course, our birds have natural predators - some raptors such as red-tailed hawks prey mostly on birds. Kingsnakes and rat snakes are known for feasting on eggs and hatchlings. But this is natural predation so things are kept in balance. Throw in a highly efficient predator such as a cat and the balance changes. --- On Tue, 3/22/11, SomeWhere Sam sin...@sbcglobal.net wrote: From: SomeWhere Sam sin...@sbcglobal.net Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Tuesday, March 22, 2011, 4:36 PM Sorry but that information is outdated or biased. The number one killer of birds is humans due to habitat loss or construction for same. Humans: The Number One Threat to Birds http://www.alleycat.org/NetCommunity/Page.aspx?pid=325 SomeWhere Sam From: Bonnie Hogue ho...@sonic.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tue, March 22, 2011 2:37:38 PM Subject: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors In the newspaper today: House cats are the #1 predator of wild birds. The American Bird Conservancy estimates up to 500 million birds per year are killed by cats. About 400,000 are killed yearly by wind turbines (less than 20% of the number killed by cats). So now we have another reason to keep our cats indoors -- not only for their own health and safety, but for that of our BIRD population! Save the cats and the birds: Keep Your Cat Indoors! ~Bonnie ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
You can also take it further and reiterate that humans are the #1 killers of birds because of the dummies that let their un-altered pet cats run around outside and breed and have kittens everywhere, not just because of the habitat destruction that we do. I think where I live in GA some of the rodents are getting a reprive because all the coyotes who would normally eat some of the rodents are getting full on my feral cats. It's so sad. I don't hate the coyotes for doing it (just like I don't hate or blame cats for killing other small prey) but it breaks my heart everytime a feral goes missing. All points always come back to the main topic of the importance of keeping the cats indoors (and getting them fixed). All we can do is spread the message and hope it makes a difference. And it my part of the world it has made a huge difference. When I was a kid, no one contemplated keeping a cat indoors it's whole life. But now, more and more people are. I can tell by the people I meet at our adoptions. Things are changing - we just have a long way to go still. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 18:23:12 -0700 From: sin...@sbcglobal.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors LOL Humans are a non-native, introduced and subsidized predators.G This is like expecting pet owners to spay or neuter their pets, interesting idea, one which I would love to see, but seeing and knowing human nature is not going to happen in my lifetime. SomeWhere Sam From: LauraM hingebacktorto...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tue, March 22, 2011 6:42:23 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors I've tried using those statistics on people who refuse to contain their cats, thinking they MIGHT care about wildlife even though they clearly aren't concerned with their cats' own safety. Hasn't worked. There are also people out there who want irresponsible owners of bird-killing cats to be held legally liable, as it's a violation of federal law to kill most bird species has been for decades. And in some areas cats have reduced the rodent population to such low numbers that migrating raptors - all federally protected - have nothing to eat. Cats, as non-native, introduced and subsidized predators, have no business being outside. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
This is a hot topic, but I agree humans and loss of habitat are the main threat to birds. As for keeping cats inside. I've had cats all my life and they have always been indoor/outdoor cats. All of them have lived to 16 to 17 years of age unless they've had some genetic problem like heart disease. My cats were all rescues and they lived outside before I had them, and they are totally miserable inside. It's really only the last couple decades that cats have been living indoors, but the invention of cat litter and urban sprawl have made us think all cats have the perfect life indoors, when in reality, cats are happier if they can live outdoors. They are programmed to hunt small animalswhich is the best nutrition for them. They need to climb trees, stalk at night with their night vision, and be free. Cats were not made for sitting in a window sill, and a prison is a prison no matter how many cat toys and kitty kondos we buy for them. It's true that some outdoor cats have a shorter life expectancy, but this mostly depends on where they live. If they live in a safe area with little or no traffic then I feel they should be allowed to be outside. There are some cats who will never willingly settle for the indoor life. We live in the middle of the woods on a dead end road with no traffic and our cats are allowed to go outside. I rarely see them catch a bird, but they catch many mice moles. I feel sad to see anything killed, but cats and dogs are predators and this is what they were designed to do. Lorrie Sorry but that information is outdated or biased. The number one killer of birds is humans due to habitat loss or construction for same. Humans: The Number One Threat to Birds http://www.alleycat.org/NetCommunity/Page.aspx?pid=325 SomeWhere Sam ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
They were trying to pass such legislation in Florida, too - kill all feral cats on sight! And to be able to shoot them, if anyone even suspected them to be homeless, in Utah - people who know nothing about cats. dogs and wildlife, unfortunately, have the platform to come up with such asinine plans and then enforce them - the general public are told all kinds of lies, and unthinkingly and stupidly go along with it! It seems that no matter what mankind (?) does, it's OK, as long as animals aren't in the way...and if they are, well, get rid of them under some guise! This is only one of my pet peeves: Yearly and systematically, OUR tax money is used to poison, burn, trap, shoot and exterminate wildlife like horses, burros, wild goats, foxes, coyotes, wolves, prairie dogs (just to name a few) to appease ranchers who lease OUR land from the government for pennies an acre (making huge profits), destroying it, and then moving on to the next.Thank you Secretary of the Interior Salazar! Thanks for letting me rant this morning! -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Maureen Olvey Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 3:38 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors From that study in CA, the American Bird Conservancy was saying that the answer was to trap and kill the cats. That's the part that really irritated me. Yeah, cats killed a lot of those birds. The little tigers will kill most anything that moves. It's their instinct. But the cats got there somehow and even before people fed them they were there and multiplying like crazy. Because of a lot of different reasons and a lot of studies, Trap-Neuter-Return the only way that will have the long term results of cutting the population of free-roaming cats way down. But, those bird brains just want to kill all the cats as though that will fix everything. I like birds and I like the people in the ABC, and I really don't think of them as bird brains I was just being funny, but the idiots that run the thing and making those comments about killing the cats are short-sighted. Everytime I hear something from the ABC I just get upset before even knowing what they're going to say because I know how they feel about free-roaming cats and I know they hate TNR. Obviously, I'm a big advocate of TNR. What I'd really like to say to them is that I wonder how many of those birds are killed when they build the condos and board walks and everything else along the beaches. They need to spend their time fighting that battle before trying to have the cats killed. Maybe they do fight those battles too, but that's my angry comment, and I know it doesn't change the fact that the cats kill the poor birds, but sometimes you just want to tell people off. Oh well, that's my middle of the night rantings about the ABC. I don't like cats killing birds, mice, chipmonks, or even the poor snakes and keeping them inside is the best thing for the cats too. I don't mind using the cat being killers argument to motivate people keeping their pets indoors but leave the ferals alone and don't start talking about killing them. I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn't..the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further. - Mark Twain Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 16:56:46 -0700 From: hingebacktorto...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors Yes, the number one cause of bird extinction is habitat loss, but cats are #2. There's a well-known study that was conducted on a couple of adjacent beaches in California, one with a feral cat population and one without. The beach that is home to feral cats has no birds - remember that most shorebirds are ground nesters - while the cat-free beach supports a healthy bird population. Of course, our birds have natural predators - some raptors such as red-tailed hawks prey mostly on birds. Kingsnakes and rat snakes are known for feasting on eggs and hatchlings. But this is natural predation so things are kept in balance. Throw in a highly efficient predator such as a cat and the balance changes. --- On Tue, 3/22/11, SomeWhere Sam sin...@sbcglobal.net wrote: From: SomeWhere Sam sin...@sbcglobal.net Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Tuesday, March 22, 2011, 4:36 PM Sorry but that information is outdated or biased. The number one killer of birds is humans due to habitat loss or construction for same. Humans: The Number One Threat to Birds http://www.alleycat.org/NetCommunity/Page.aspx?pid=325 SomeWhere Sam From: Bonnie Hogue ho...@sonic.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tue,
Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
As an adopter, my views on this are very strict and well-defined - I am responsible for placing cats in the safest possible homes, and I would do no less. I need to be able to sleep at night, knowing that the cats that I rescued and invested so much time, energy, and emotion will be safe and happy for a long time. Yes, I agree, there still are a few safe area left, but not many and none are 100% safe, ever. It is true that times used to be safer for cats to be outdoors - ours always had been, especially when I was growing up, until one of our kittens was killed by a carUnfortunately, it takes many people to understand this only after a tragedy occurs. When an adopter tells me that their cat ALWAYS sat on the front porch, and never leftand they intend to do the same with a new adopted cat, I say NO! Their old cat may have indeed done that, but it doesn't mean that a new cat will do it: It takes ONLY ONE TIME - chasing a squirrel or bird across the street, and WHAM! Cats can be perfectly happy indoors with tall cat trees by a window, a window perch, the right kind of toys to keep them interested and active. More and more people construct outdoor enclosures; simple ones to really elaborate ones, even just a little window screened porch. I don't believe that cats need to hunt; if they are homeless and hungry, yes, but there's no need for a well-fed cat to kill small wildlife, not for food, but for fun and the reflex of chasing something (could be a toy). -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lorrie Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 7:56 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors This is a hot topic, but I agree humans and loss of habitat are the main threat to birds. As for keeping cats inside. I've had cats all my life and they have always been indoor/outdoor cats. All of them have lived to 16 to 17 years of age unless they've had some genetic problem like heart disease. My cats were all rescues and they lived outside before I had them, and they are totally miserable inside. It's really only the last couple decades that cats have been living indoors, but the invention of cat litter and urban sprawl have made us think all cats have the perfect life indoors, when in reality, cats are happier if they can live outdoors. They are programmed to hunt small animalswhich is the best nutrition for them. They need to climb trees, stalk at night with their night vision, and be free. Cats were not made for sitting in a window sill, and a prison is a prison no matter how many cat toys and kitty kondos we buy for them. It's true that some outdoor cats have a shorter life expectancy, but this mostly depends on where they live. If they live in a safe area with little or no traffic then I feel they should be allowed to be outside. There are some cats who will never willingly settle for the indoor life. We live in the middle of the woods on a dead end road with no traffic and our cats are allowed to go outside. I rarely see them catch a bird, but they catch many mice moles. I feel sad to see anything killed, but cats and dogs are predators and this is what they were designed to do. Lorrie Sorry but that information is outdated or biased. The number one killer of birds is humans due to habitat loss or construction for same. Humans: The Number One Threat to Birds http://www.alleycat.org/NetCommunity/Page.aspx?pid=325 SomeWhere Sam ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
I use to have indoor/outdoor cats, but now they are strickly indoor. There are so many dangers outside such as cars, dogs, and the chance of encountering a another cat with felv, for example. I do feel sorry for them sometimes, but I have to say I would trade places with any one of them to live the life of luxury they experinece indoors. They do long to go outside sometimes, but I open up the windows and let them smell the fresh air. I don't feel too guilty about it. LOL Update on Amber, my felv kitty. I've had her three and a half weeks now and she is looking and feeling so much better! She has gained weight and still has a good appetite. She is so sweet. My husband is building her a kitty palace, which is eight feet long, four feet wide, and six feet tall. We bought a cat tree to put in it so she can climb and get her exercise. I have been keeping her in a much smaller cage (the only on I have) and letting her roam in the basement a few hours a day when I can. I so wish I could bring her upstairs with the other cats, but just don't feel I should take the risk. I am still struggling a little bit with putting them at risk at all, but it is what it is! I still plan to have Amber retested in a couple of months. Whatever happens, I am still glad I have been given the opportunity to make a difference in her life. Jannes From: Natalie at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wed, March 23, 2011 8:13:09 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors As an adopter, my views on this are very strict and well-defined - I am responsible for placing cats in the safest possible homes, and I would do no less. I need to be able to sleep at night, knowing that the cats that I rescued and invested so much time, energy, and emotion will be safe and happy for a long time. Yes, I agree, there still are a few safe area left, but not many and none are 100% safe, ever. It is true that times used to be safer for cats to be outdoors - ours always had been, especially when I was growing up, until one of our kittens was killed by a carUnfortunately, it takes many people to understand this only after a tragedy occurs. When an adopter tells me that their cat ALWAYS sat on the front porch, and never leftand they intend to do the same with a new adopted cat, I say NO! Their old cat may have indeed done that, but it doesn't mean that a new cat will do it: It takes ONLY ONE TIME - chasing a squirrel or bird across the street, and WHAM! Cats can be perfectly happy indoors with tall cat trees by a window, a window perch, the right kind of toys to keep them interested and active. More and more people construct outdoor enclosures; simple ones to really elaborate ones, even just a little window screened porch. I don't believe that cats need to hunt; if they are homeless and hungry, yes, but there's no need for a well-fed cat to kill small wildlife, not for food, but for fun and the reflex of chasing something (could be a toy). -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lorrie Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 7:56 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors This is a hot topic, but I agree humans and loss of habitat are the main threat to birds. As for keeping cats inside. I've had cats all my life and they have always been indoor/outdoor cats. All of them have lived to 16 to 17 years of age unless they've had some genetic problem like heart disease. My cats were all rescues and they lived outside before I had them, and they are totally miserable inside. It's really only the last couple decades that cats have been living indoors, but the invention of cat litter and urban sprawl have made us think all cats have the perfect life indoors, when in reality, cats are happier if they can live outdoors. They are programmed to hunt small animalswhich is the best nutrition for them. They need to climb trees, stalk at night with their night vision, and be free. Cats were not made for sitting in a window sill, and a prison is a prison no matter how many cat toys and kitty kondos we buy for them. It's true that some outdoor cats have a shorter life expectancy, but this mostly depends on where they live. If they live in a safe area with little or no traffic then I feel they should be allowed to be outside. There are some cats who will never willingly settle for the indoor life. We live in the middle of the woods on a dead end road with no traffic and our cats are allowed to go outside. I rarely see them catch a bird, but they catch many mice moles. I feel sad to see anything killed, but cats and dogs are predators and this is what they were designed to do. Lorrie Sorry but that information is outdated or biased. The number one killer of birds is humans due to habitat loss or construction for same. Humans: The Number One
Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
Just because your kid likes to eat McDonald's every day or binge drink or do drugs because it makes them happy is NOT a reason to allow it. The same reasoning goes for cats, just because they LIKE it doesn't mean it's good for them. My cats may be prisoners in my house but I sleep well at night knowing they are loved and safe and from what I can tell, they are pretty freakin happy. I have picked up enough broken and battered bodies off the roadways to know that NONE of my cats or fosters will EVER be allowed outside unless it is in a safe enclosure or on a leash. There was a young individual (can't call him a man because real men do not torture animals) in Dallas that took his neighbor's inside/outside cat and over a course of several hours beat and tortured the cat and video taped the entire thing. THAT is what happens to outdoor cats. While some may be lucky enough to escape being tortured, hit by cars, eaten by coyotes or hawks or owls, most do not escape this fate. Sorry but I 100% DISAGREE with cats are wild animals and need to live outside point of view. Just my 2 cents. Edna Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 09:13:09 -0400 From: at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors As an adopter, my views on this are very strict and well-defined - I am responsible for placing cats in the safest possible homes, and I would do no less. I need to be able to sleep at night, knowing that the cats that I rescued and invested so much time, energy, and emotion will be safe and happy for a long time. Yes, I agree, there still are a few safe area left, but not many and none are 100% safe, ever. It is true that times used to be safer for cats to be outdoors - ours always had been, especially when I was growing up, until one of our kittens was killed by a carUnfortunately, it takes many people to understand this only after a tragedy occurs. When an adopter tells me that their cat ALWAYS sat on the front porch, and never leftand they intend to do the same with a new adopted cat, I say NO! Their old cat may have indeed done that, but it doesn't mean that a new cat will do it: It takes ONLY ONE TIME - chasing a squirrel or bird across the street, and WHAM! Cats can be perfectly happy indoors with tall cat trees by a window, a window perch, the right kind of toys to keep them interested and active. More and more people construct outdoor enclosures; simple ones to really elaborate ones, even just a little window screened porch. I don't believe that cats need to hunt; if they are homeless and hungry, yes, but there's no need for a well-fed cat to kill small wildlife, not for food, but for fun and the reflex of chasing something (could be a toy). -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lorrie Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 7:56 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors This is a hot topic, but I agree humans and loss of habitat are the main threat to birds. As for keeping cats inside. I've had cats all my life and they have always been indoor/outdoor cats. All of them have lived to 16 to 17 years of age unless they've had some genetic problem like heart disease. My cats were all rescues and they lived outside before I had them, and they are totally miserable inside. It's really only the last couple decades that cats have been living indoors, but the invention of cat litter and urban sprawl have made us think all cats have the perfect life indoors, when in reality, cats are happier if they can live outdoors. They are programmed to hunt small animalswhich is the best nutrition for them. They need to climb trees, stalk at night with their night vision, and be free. Cats were not made for sitting in a window sill, and a prison is a prison no matter how many cat toys and kitty kondos we buy for them. It's true that some outdoor cats have a shorter life expectancy, but this mostly depends on where they live. If they live in a safe area with little or no traffic then I feel they should be allowed to be outside. There are some cats who will never willingly settle for the indoor life. We live in the middle of the woods on a dead end road with no traffic and our cats are allowed to go outside. I rarely see them catch a bird, but they catch many mice moles. I feel sad to see anything killed, but cats and dogs are predators and this is what they were designed to do. Lorrie Sorry but that information is outdated or biased. The number one killer of birds is humans due to habitat loss or construction for same. Humans: The Number One Threat to Birds http://www.alleycat.org/NetCommunity/Page.aspx?pid=325 SomeWhere Sam ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
You are 100% correct in saying: Sorry but I 100% DISAGREE with cats are wild animals and need to live outside point of view. Cats were indeed wild at one time; but since they have been domesticated for a few thousand years and allowed to over breed, causing many to revert to being feral, we are obligated to do as much as we can (and I can see that 100% of people in this group are doing so) to rectify all the misdoings of mankind. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Edna Taylor Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 11:40 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors Just because your kid likes to eat McDonald's every day or binge drink or do drugs because it makes them happy is NOT a reason to allow it. The same reasoning goes for cats, just because they LIKE it doesn't mean it's good for them. My cats may be prisoners in my house but I sleep well at night knowing they are loved and safe and from what I can tell, they are pretty freakin happy. I have picked up enough broken and battered bodies off the roadways to know that NONE of my cats or fosters will EVER be allowed outside unless it is in a safe enclosure or on a leash. There was a young individual (can't call him a man because real men do not torture animals) in Dallas that took his neighbor's inside/outside cat and over a course of several hours beat and tortured the cat and video taped the entire thing. THAT is what happens to outdoor cats. While some may be lucky enough to escape being tortured, hit by cars, eaten by coyotes or hawks or owls, most do not escape this fate. Sorry but I 100% DISAGREE with cats are wild animals and need to live outside point of view. Just my 2 cents. Edna Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 09:13:09 -0400 From: at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors As an adopter, my views on this are very strict and well-defined - I am responsible for placing cats in the safest possible homes, and I would do no less. I need to be able to sleep at night, knowing that the cats that I rescued and invested so much time, energy, and emotion will be safe and happy for a long time. Yes, I agree, there still are a few safe area left, but not many and none are 100% safe, ever. It is true that times used to be safer for cats to be outdoors - ours always had been, especially when I was growing up, until one of our kittens was killed by a carUnfortunately, it takes many people to understand this only after a tragedy occurs. When an adopter tells me that their cat ALWAYS sat on the front porch, and never leftand they intend to do the same with a new adopted cat, I say NO! Their old cat may have indeed done that, but it doesn't mean that a new cat will do it: It takes ONLY ONE TIME - chasing a squirrel or bird across the street, and WHAM! Cats can be perfectly happy indoors with tall cat trees by a window, a window perch, the right kind of toys to keep them interested and active. More and more people construct outdoor enclosures; simple ones to really elaborate ones, even just a little window screened porch. I don't believe that cats need to hunt; if they are homeless and hungry, yes, but there's no need for a well-fed cat to kill small wildlife, not for food, but for fun and the reflex of chasing something (could be a toy). -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lorrie Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 7:56 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors This is a hot topic, but I agree humans and loss of habitat are the main threat to birds. As for keeping cats inside. I've had cats all my life and they have always been indoor/outdoor cats. All of them have lived to 16 to 17 years of age unless they've had some genetic problem like heart disease. My cats were all rescues and they lived outside before I had them, and they are totally miserable inside. It's really only the last couple decades that cats have been living indoors, but the invention of cat litter and urban sprawl have made us think all cats have the perfect life indoors, when in reality, cats are happier if they can live outdoors. They are programmed to hunt small animalswhich is the best nutrition for them. They need to climb trees, stalk at night with their night vision, and be free. Cats were not made for sitting in a window sill, and a prison is a prison no matter how many cat toys and kitty kondos we buy for them. It's true that some outdoor cats have a shorter life expectancy, but this mostly depends on where they live. If they live in a safe area with little or no traffic then I feel they should be allowed to be outside. There are some cats who will never willingly settle for the indoor life. We live in the
Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
Our shelter has an indoor only policy. The cat can go out if you have it with you on a leash or if it is in an enclosed patio which it cannot get out of you are present at all times. Otherwise we will remove the cat from the home. There are about 4 cats in my neighborhood who have been killed by irresponsible people letting their dogs loose. Not to mention the ones which have gotten run over. Beth Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org --- On Wed, 3/23/11, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: From: Natalie at...@optonline.net Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Wednesday, March 23, 2011, 12:04 PM You are 100% correct in saying: Sorry but I 100% DISAGREE with cats are wild animals and need to live outside point of view. Cats were indeed wild at one time; but since they have been domesticated for a few thousand years and allowed to over breed, causing many to revert to being feral, we are obligated to do as much as we can (and I can see that 100% of people in this group are doing so) to rectify all the misdoings of mankind. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Edna Taylor Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 11:40 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors Just because your kid likes to eat McDonald's every day or binge drink or do drugs because it makes them happy is NOT a reason to allow it. The same reasoning goes for cats, just because they LIKE it doesn't mean it's good for them. My cats may be prisoners in my house but I sleep well at night knowing they are loved and safe and from what I can tell, they are pretty freakin happy. I have picked up enough broken and battered bodies off the roadways to know that NONE of my cats or fosters will EVER be allowed outside unless it is in a safe enclosure or on a leash. There was a young individual (can't call him a man because real men do not torture animals) in Dallas that took his neighbor's inside/outside cat and over a course of several hours beat and tortured the cat and video taped the entire thing. THAT is what happens to outdoor cats. While some may be lucky enough to escape being tortured, hit by cars, eaten by coyotes or hawks or owls, most do not escape this fate. Sorry but I 100% DISAGREE with cats are wild animals and need to live outside point of view. Just my 2 cents. Edna Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 09:13:09 -0400 From: at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors As an adopter, my views on this are very strict and well-defined - I am responsible for placing cats in the safest possible homes, and I would do no less. I need to be able to sleep at night, knowing that the cats that I rescued and invested so much time, energy, and emotion will be safe and happy for a long time. Yes, I agree, there still are a few safe area left, but not many and none are 100% safe, ever. It is true that times used to be safer for cats to be outdoors - ours always had been, especially when I was growing up, until one of our kittens was killed by a carUnfortunately, it takes many people to understand this only after a tragedy occurs. When an adopter tells me that their cat ALWAYS sat on the front porch, and never leftand they intend to do the same with a new adopted cat, I say NO! Their old cat may have indeed done that, but it doesn't mean that a new cat will do it: It takes ONLY ONE TIME - chasing a squirrel or bird across the street, and WHAM! Cats can be perfectly happy indoors with tall cat trees by a window, a window perch, the right kind of toys to keep them interested and active. More and more people construct outdoor enclosures; simple ones to really elaborate ones, even just a little window screened porch. I don't believe that cats need to hunt; if they are homeless and hungry, yes, but there's no need for a well-fed cat to kill small wildlife, not for food, but for fun and the reflex of chasing something (could be a toy). -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lorrie Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 7:56 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors This is a hot topic, but I agree humans and loss of habitat are the main threat to birds. As for keeping cats inside. I've had cats all my life and they have always been indoor/outdoor cats. All of them have lived to 16 to 17 years of age unless they've had some genetic problem like heart disease. My cats were all rescues and they lived outside before I had them, and they are totally miserable inside. It's really only the last couple decades that cats have been living indoors, but the invention of cat litter and urban sprawl have made us think all cats have the perfect life indoors, when
[Felvtalk] Keep Studs in your thoughts Please
I was supposed to have a new FeLV kitty Studs aka Stud Muffin last night, but the lady who was transporting him left him in a carrier in her carport with no food or water all day. I live in Atlanta it has been hot. He had to be treated for severe dehydration is currently at the vet. They also discovered he had a severe heart murmur, so they are going to check to see if that can me managed with meds or if it is too late. He is apparently a total love bug. My favorite kind of cat - big black short haired cat with green eyes. Beth Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Studs in your thoughts Please
What in the world is wrong with some people!! She needs to be left in a box with no food or water. This makes me so angry! Please keep us updated on the poor kitty. Jannes From: Beth create_me_...@yahoo.com To: FeLV Talk Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wed, March 23, 2011 11:23:13 AM Subject: [Felvtalk] Keep Studs in your thoughts Please I was supposed to have a new FeLV kitty Studs aka Stud Muffin last night, but the lady who was transporting him left him in a carrier in her carport with no food or water all day. I live in Atlanta it has been hot. He had to be treated for severe dehydration is currently at the vet. They also discovered he had a severe heart murmur, so they are going to check to see if that can me managed with meds or if it is too late. He is apparently a total love bug. My favorite kind of cat - big black short haired cat with green eyes. Beth Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Studs in your thoughts Please
OMG, can someone PLEASE go hit that woman in the head with a tack hammer? Studs is in my thoughts and prayers. I think this goes without saying but are you putting the transporter on a DO NOT USE list? Please let us know how Studs is doing. Edna Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 09:23:13 -0700 From: create_me_...@yahoo.com To: Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] Keep Studs in your thoughts Please I was supposed to have a new FeLV kitty Studs aka Stud Muffin last night, but the lady who was transporting him left him in a carrier in her carport with no food or water all day. I live in Atlanta it has been hot. He had to be treated for severe dehydration is currently at the vet. They also discovered he had a severe heart murmur, so they are going to check to see if that can me managed with meds or if it is too late. He is apparently a total love bug. My favorite kind of cat - big black short haired cat with green eyes. Beth Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Studs in your thoughts Please
Will of course keep Studs in my thoughts and would LOVE to give the lady who put him in this fix a piece of my mind. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Beth Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 9:23 AM To: FeLV Talk Subject: [Felvtalk] Keep Studs in your thoughts Please I was supposed to have a new FeLV kitty Studs aka Stud Muffin last night, but the lady who was transporting him left him in a carrier in her carport with no food or water all day. I live in Atlanta it has been hot. He had to be treated for severe dehydration is currently at the vet. They also discovered he had a severe heart murmur, so they are going to check to see if that can me managed with meds or if it is too late. He is apparently a total love bug. My favorite kind of cat - big black short haired cat with green eyes. Beth Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org __ NOD32 5978 (20110323) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Studs in your thoughts Please
Oh how sad. Good thoughts go out to Studs...may his health return so you two can enjoy eachother's company! ~B. - Original Message - From: Beth create_me_...@yahoo.com To: FeLV Talk Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 9:23 AM Subject: [Felvtalk] Keep Studs in your thoughts Please I was supposed to have a new FeLV kitty Studs aka Stud Muffin last night, but the lady who was transporting him left him in a carrier in her carport with no food or water all day. I live in Atlanta it has been hot. He had to be treated for severe dehydration is currently at the vet. They also discovered he had a severe heart murmur, so they are going to check to see if that can me managed with meds or if it is too late. He is apparently a total love bug. My favorite kind of cat - big black short haired cat with green eyes. Beth Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
This is not an easy call. Growing up, we always had stray cats who found us all were indoor/outdoor. Of course, it was way different then my mother always made sure they came in at night. They all went to the vet to be s/n then not again until they became ill towards the end of their lives. We had 3 generations all lived to their early 20's. But we also fed whoever showed up some would ultimately come in and out. One of those was poisoned by a neighbor another was killed by a car. My own cats are all indoor--I live on the 6th floor of an apt building-LOL. All came in as strays of different ages. Interestingly enough, the one who never had any interest in what was going on outside (didn't sit on window, didn't run for front door, didn't try to sneak out on balcony), was the late great Romeo. He was around 3 or 4 when I brought him in he always seemed to have the attitude been there, done that!. I don't know that I wouldn't let them out if I lived in a very rural area... but I know about the predators out there so I suspect I'd probably ruin it for them by hovering-LOL -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Beth Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 12:12 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors Our shelter has an indoor only policy. The cat can go out if you have it with you on a leash or if it is in an enclosed patio which it cannot get out of you are present at all times. Otherwise we will remove the cat from the home. There are about 4 cats in my neighborhood who have been killed by irresponsible people letting their dogs loose. Not to mention the ones which have gotten run over. Beth Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org --- On Wed, 3/23/11, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: From: Natalie at...@optonline.net Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Wednesday, March 23, 2011, 12:04 PM You are 100% correct in saying: Sorry but I 100% DISAGREE with cats are wild animals and need to live outside point of view. Cats were indeed wild at one time; but since they have been domesticated for a few thousand years and allowed to over breed, causing many to revert to being feral, we are obligated to do as much as we can (and I can see that 100% of people in this group are doing so) to rectify all the misdoings of mankind. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Edna Taylor Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 11:40 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors Just because your kid likes to eat McDonald's every day or binge drink or do drugs because it makes them happy is NOT a reason to allow it. The same reasoning goes for cats, just because they LIKE it doesn't mean it's good for them. My cats may be prisoners in my house but I sleep well at night knowing they are loved and safe and from what I can tell, they are pretty freakin happy. I have picked up enough broken and battered bodies off the roadways to know that NONE of my cats or fosters will EVER be allowed outside unless it is in a safe enclosure or on a leash. There was a young individual (can't call him a man because real men do not torture animals) in Dallas that took his neighbor's inside/outside cat and over a course of several hours beat and tortured the cat and video taped the entire thing. THAT is what happens to outdoor cats. While some may be lucky enough to escape being tortured, hit by cars, eaten by coyotes or hawks or owls, most do not escape this fate. Sorry but I 100% DISAGREE with cats are wild animals and need to live outside point of view. Just my 2 cents. Edna Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 09:13:09 -0400 From: at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors As an adopter, my views on this are very strict and well-defined - I am responsible for placing cats in the safest possible homes, and I would do no less. I need to be able to sleep at night, knowing that the cats that I rescued and invested so much time, energy, and emotion will be safe and happy for a long time. Yes, I agree, there still are a few safe area left, but not many and none are 100% safe, ever. It is true that times used to be safer for cats to be outdoors - ours always had been, especially when I was growing up, until one of our kittens was killed by a carUnfortunately, it takes many people to understand this only after a tragedy occurs. When an adopter tells me that their cat ALWAYS sat on the front porch, and never leftand they intend to do the same with a new adopted cat, I say NO! Their old cat may have indeed done that, but it doesn't mean that a new cat will do it: It takes ONLY ONE TIME - chasing a squirrel or bird across the street, and WHAM! Cats can
Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Studs in your thoughts Please
Thinking good thoughts for Studs but is anybody following up on this so-called transporter? -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Edna Taylor Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 12:30 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Studs in your thoughts Please OMG, can someone PLEASE go hit that woman in the head with a tack hammer? Studs is in my thoughts and prayers. I think this goes without saying but are you putting the transporter on a DO NOT USE list? Please let us know how Studs is doing. Edna Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 09:23:13 -0700 From: create_me_...@yahoo.com To: Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] Keep Studs in your thoughts Please I was supposed to have a new FeLV kitty Studs aka Stud Muffin last night, but the lady who was transporting him left him in a carrier in her carport with no food or water all day. I live in Atlanta it has been hot. He had to be treated for severe dehydration is currently at the vet. They also discovered he had a severe heart murmur, so they are going to check to see if that can me managed with meds or if it is too late. He is apparently a total love bug. My favorite kind of cat - big black short haired cat with green eyes. Beth Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors
Edna, that's exactly what I tell people about letting their cats out just because they want to. I ask them if they would allow their 3-yr old to play in the middle of the street just because he/she wanted to? When I hear but the cat gets out, I tell them that they control the door, period! Our adoption contract stipulates strictly indoors - but, there's no real way of enforcing it except to spot check wherever the cats live and hope that adopters understand the reasons for it. I have removed several adopted cats over the past 18 years. A friend, who also has a cat rescue group, doesnt allow declawing (we don't either), came to her vet, and noticed one of her adopters picking up her cat after spayingshe looked into the carrier and noticed the poor kittens front paws bandaged.she gave her an earful, but what was she to do, take the cat back and have this person declaw yet another one? Since then, we made it perfectly clear to that veterinary hospital that no cat that was adopted from us can be declawed, and should a customer ask for it, we must be notified immediately! Thank God that my other veterinarian would never declaw! -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Edna Taylor Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 11:40 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors Just because your kid likes to eat McDonald's every day or binge drink or do drugs because it makes them happy is NOT a reason to allow it. The same reasoning goes for cats, just because they LIKE it doesn't mean it's good for them. My cats may be prisoners in my house but I sleep well at night knowing they are loved and safe and from what I can tell, they are pretty freakin happy. I have picked up enough broken and battered bodies off the roadways to know that NONE of my cats or fosters will EVER be allowed outside unless it is in a safe enclosure or on a leash. There was a young individual (can't call him a man because real men do not torture animals) in Dallas that took his neighbor's inside/outside cat and over a course of several hours beat and tortured the cat and video taped the entire thing. THAT is what happens to outdoor cats. While some may be lucky enough to escape being tortured, hit by cars, eaten by coyotes or hawks or owls, most do not escape this fate. Sorry but I 100% DISAGREE with cats are wild animals and need to live outside point of view. Just my 2 cents. Edna Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 09:13:09 -0400 From: at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors As an adopter, my views on this are very strict and well-defined - I am responsible for placing cats in the safest possible homes, and I would do no less. I need to be able to sleep at night, knowing that the cats that I rescued and invested so much time, energy, and emotion will be safe and happy for a long time. Yes, I agree, there still are a few safe area left, but not many and none are 100% safe, ever. It is true that times used to be safer for cats to be outdoors - ours always had been, especially when I was growing up, until one of our kittens was killed by a carUnfortunately, it takes many people to understand this only after a tragedy occurs. When an adopter tells me that their cat ALWAYS sat on the front porch, and never leftand they intend to do the same with a new adopted cat, I say NO! Their old cat may have indeed done that, but it doesn't mean that a new cat will do it: It takes ONLY ONE TIME - chasing a squirrel or bird across the street, and WHAM! Cats can be perfectly happy indoors with tall cat trees by a window, a window perch, the right kind of toys to keep them interested and active. More and more people construct outdoor enclosures; simple ones to really elaborate ones, even just a little window screened porch. I don't believe that cats need to hunt; if they are homeless and hungry, yes, but there's no need for a well-fed cat to kill small wildlife, not for food, but for fun and the reflex of chasing something (could be a toy). -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lorrie Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 7:56 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors This is a hot topic, but I agree humans and loss of habitat are the main threat to birds. As for keeping cats inside. I've had cats all my life and they have always been indoor/outdoor cats. All of them have lived to 16 to 17 years of age unless they've had some genetic problem like heart disease. My cats were all rescues and they lived outside before I had them, and they are totally miserable inside. It's really only the last couple decades that cats have been living indoors, but the invention of cat litter and urban sprawl have made us
Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Studs in your thoughts Please
OMG - how spaced out do you have to be to do that? I hope that Studs will be OK - and please give him between 30-5-mg of CoQ10 every day in his food! He may also need a diuretic, as one of mine gets - she's doing fine. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Beth Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 12:23 PM To: FeLV Talk Subject: [Felvtalk] Keep Studs in your thoughts Please I was supposed to have a new FeLV kitty Studs aka Stud Muffin last night, but the lady who was transporting him left him in a carrier in her carport with no food or water all day. I live in Atlanta it has been hot. He had to be treated for severe dehydration is currently at the vet. They also discovered he had a severe heart murmur, so they are going to check to see if that can me managed with meds or if it is too late. He is apparently a total love bug. My favorite kind of cat - big black short haired cat with green eyes. Beth Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Studs in your thoughts Please
So sorry for poor Studs. Hopefully he'll be better after getting fluids at the vet. CoQ10 is great for any heart kitty. Hope he is home with you soon Sharyl --- On Wed, 3/23/11, Beth create_me_...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Beth create_me_...@yahoo.com Subject: [Felvtalk] Keep Studs in your thoughts Please To: FeLV Talk Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Wednesday, March 23, 2011, 12:23 PM I was supposed to have a new FeLV kitty Studs aka Stud Muffin last night, but the lady who was transporting him left him in a carrier in her carport with no food or water all day. I live in Atlanta it has been hot. He had to be treated for severe dehydration is currently at the vet. They also discovered he had a severe heart murmur, so they are going to check to see if that can me managed with meds or if it is too late. He is apparently a total love bug. My favorite kind of cat - big black short haired cat with green eyes. Beth Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Studs in your thoughts Please
I knew it was good for people but I did not know that you could give it to kitties too? Thanks for the info ;) Edna Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 10:16:02 -0700 From: cline...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Studs in your thoughts Please So sorry for poor Studs. Hopefully he'll be better after getting fluids at the vet. CoQ10 is great for any heart kitty. Hope he is home with you soon Sharyl --- On Wed, 3/23/11, Beth create_me_...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Beth create_me_...@yahoo.com Subject: [Felvtalk] Keep Studs in your thoughts Please To: FeLV Talk Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Wednesday, March 23, 2011, 12:23 PM I was supposed to have a new FeLV kitty Studs aka Stud Muffin last night, but the lady who was transporting him left him in a carrier in her carport with no food or water all day. I live in Atlanta it has been hot. He had to be treated for severe dehydration is currently at the vet. They also discovered he had a severe heart murmur, so they are going to check to see if that can me managed with meds or if it is too late. He is apparently a total love bug. My favorite kind of cat - big black short haired cat with green eyes. Beth Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Yet another question.....
well, my ninja was 4-5 when she came to me and all that I know about her previous history is that she was indoor/outdoor and spayed. she'd been with me for about 4 years when she started having problems and it was another 5 months or so before I had her tested for FeLV and she was positive, but it was her other health issues that were the real problems. a seizure inducing brain tumor and in the end, intestinal lymphoma. Barb+Smoky the House Puma+El Bandito Malito My cat the clown: paying no mind to whom he should impress. Merely living his life, doing what pleases him, and making me smile. - Anonymous From: Natalie at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tue, March 22, 2011 3:56:46 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Yet another question. And I also wonder about adult cats that are FeLV+, and perfectly healthy. I've never had adults with no symptoms, only a kitten that died years ago. Eliot Spitty is about 5 yrs old, and Mr. Tux about 6 yrs old. I wonder how that will work out in the coming years - they get supplements, good food, etc. Has anyone had that experience, and how long did it take, if at all, before the cats started getting symptoms or related cancers? -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Gloria B. Lane Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 4:01 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Yet another question. One thought process that I've run into is that a healthy adult cat (FELV negative) has a hearty enough immune system to successfully deal with the FELV virus without acquiring it. I can't see that vaccinating them at this point would be of value. Just my 2c Gloria From: Maureen Olvey molvey...@hotmail.com Date: March 21, 2011 12:07:44 PM CDT To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] Yet another question. Reply-To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org I've mentioned my kitty Two Face earlier because she died two weeks ago and when they did the necropsy they found out she had a huge tumor and was FeLV +. Since then I've had a few of my other kitties tested with the combo/snap test at the vet's office. All have come out negative so far, thank the Lord for that. These other kitties that have tested negative lived with Two Face for over a year. Sharing litterboxes, food bowls and all that stuff. I would think that would mean that they had enough exposure to the virus to get it in their system and that they either extinguished the virus or put it into a dormant status. Is that a reasonable assumption? My main question now is should I give them a FeLV vaccination. If they did get the virus in their system and extinguished it then they're immune for life, right? If so, there's no need for a vaccination. Is it possible with all that exposure that they didn't get enough of the virus into their system to do any harm? If that's the case then I should vaccinate them? I just don't know how they could not have gotten enough exposure since they lived together and shared everything for over a year. Thoughts? I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn't..the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further. - Mark Twain ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Studs in your thoughts Please
I am sad to hear this too and Studs will be in my thoughts. Second transport related health crisis I've heard of recently--a week or two ago, one of the big organizations (HSUS or someone) sent an e-mail out fundraising for a small dog or puppy that was being transported in a car with another, much larger dog, not in carriers and was attacked when they stopped for gas or something to that effect, resulting in critical injuries. Very sad. On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 12:29 PM, Edna Taylor taylore...@msn.com wrote: OMG, can someone PLEASE go hit that woman in the head with a tack hammer? Studs is in my thoughts and prayers. I think this goes without saying but are you putting the transporter on a DO NOT USE list? Please let us know how Studs is doing. Edna Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 09:23:13 -0700 From: create_me_...@yahoo.com To: Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] Keep Studs in your thoughts Please I was supposed to have a new FeLV kitty Studs aka Stud Muffin last night, but the lady who was transporting him left him in a carrier in her carport with no food or water all day. I live in Atlanta it has been hot. He had to be treated for severe dehydration is currently at the vet. They also discovered he had a severe heart murmur, so they are going to check to see if that can me managed with meds or if it is too late. He is apparently a total love bug. My favorite kind of cat - big black short haired cat with green eyes. Beth Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.orghttp://www.furkids.org/ ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Studs in your thoughts Please
It was the lady who found him. She left him out for her friend to pick up later that day take to the woman who was to bring him to me. Just lack of common sense. Beth Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org --- On Wed, 3/23/11, Christiane Biagi ti...@mindspring.com wrote: From: Christiane Biagi ti...@mindspring.com Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Studs in your thoughts Please To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Wednesday, March 23, 2011, 12:51 PM Thinking good thoughts for Studs but is anybody following up on this so-called transporter? -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Edna Taylor Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 12:30 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Studs in your thoughts Please OMG, can someone PLEASE go hit that woman in the head with a tack hammer? Studs is in my thoughts and prayers. I think this goes without saying but are you putting the transporter on a DO NOT USE list? Please let us know how Studs is doing. Edna Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 09:23:13 -0700 From: create_me_...@yahoo.com To: Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] Keep Studs in your thoughts Please I was supposed to have a new FeLV kitty Studs aka Stud Muffin last night, but the lady who was transporting him left him in a carrier in her carport with no food or water all day. I live in Atlanta it has been hot. He had to be treated for severe dehydration is currently at the vet. They also discovered he had a severe heart murmur, so they are going to check to see if that can me managed with meds or if it is too late. He is apparently a total love bug. My favorite kind of cat - big black short haired cat with green eyes. Beth Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors
We have removed cats from homes when we've found out they declawed. Our contract strictly prohibits it. Those things are usually handled through a lawyer, though. You don't want to go about it the wrong way. Beth Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org --- On Wed, 3/23/11, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: From: Natalie at...@optonline.net Subject: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Wednesday, March 23, 2011, 12:55 PM Edna, that's exactly what I tell people about letting their cats out just because they want to. I ask them if they would allow their 3-yr old to play in the middle of the street just because he/she wanted to? When I hear but the cat gets out, I tell them that they control the door, period! Our adoption contract stipulates strictly indoors - but, there's no real way of enforcing it except to spot check wherever the cats live and hope that adopters understand the reasons for it. I have removed several adopted cats over the past 18 years. A friend, who also has a cat rescue group, doesn’t allow declawing (we don't either), came to her vet, and noticed one of her adopters picking up her cat after spayingshe looked into the carrier and noticed the poor kittens front paws bandaged.she gave her an earful, but what was she to do, take the cat back and have this person declaw yet another one? Since then, we made it perfectly clear to that veterinary hospital that no cat that was adopted from us can be declawed, and should a customer ask for it, we must be notified immediately! Thank God that my other veterinarian would never declaw! ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Studs in your thoughts Please
Yes, excellent for heart kitties. Usual dose is 30-50 mg/day. Sharyl --- On Wed, 3/23/11, Edna Taylor taylore...@msn.com wrote: From: Edna Taylor taylore...@msn.com Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Studs in your thoughts Please To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Wednesday, March 23, 2011, 1:45 PM I knew it was good for people but I did not know that you could give it to kitties too? Thanks for the info ;) Edna Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 10:16:02 -0700 From: cline...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Studs in your thoughts Please So sorry for poor Studs. Hopefully he'll be better after getting fluids at the vet. CoQ10 is great for any heart kitty. Hope he is home with you soon Sharyl --- On Wed, 3/23/11, Beth create_me_...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Beth create_me_...@yahoo.com Subject: [Felvtalk] Keep Studs in your thoughts Please To: FeLV Talk Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Wednesday, March 23, 2011, 12:23 PM I was supposed to have a new FeLV kitty Studs aka Stud Muffin last night, but the lady who was transporting him left him in a carrier in her carport with no food or water all day. I live in Atlanta it has been hot. He had to be treated for severe dehydration is currently at the vet. They also discovered he had a severe heart murmur, so they are going to check to see if that can me managed with meds or if it is too late. He is apparently a total love bug. My favorite kind of cat - big black short haired cat with green eyes. Beth Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Declawing
On 03-23, Beth wrote: We have removed cats from homes when we've found out they declawed. Our contract strictly prohibits it. Those things are usually handled through a lawyer, though. You don't want to go about it the wrong way. Beth Beth, Thanks for your thoughts on declawing. It is absolutely the cruelist thing imaginable. It's amputation of the last joint of EACH toe. Cats suffer terribly after this surgery and they often stop using their litter boxes because it hurts so much. Biting is another thing they often do because they feel defenseless without their claws. Lorrie ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Studs in your thoughts Please
I had a call from a woman a few years ago, saying that when she went to pick up her mail in late afternoon (quite a long driveway), there was a carrier with two cats inside - it was the middle of summer, hot and humid - the cats were panting. She called me to get them (she could have given them water!) - they were terrified and dehydrated! They must have been there since morningThat's how one treats trash, not animals! At least this woman didn't do it on purpose, but how reliable can she be, didn't she know how many she was supposed to transport and that one was left behind??? -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Jannes Taylor Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 12:30 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Studs in your thoughts Please What in the world is wrong with some people!! She needs to be left in a box with no food or water. This makes me so angry! Please keep us updated on the poor kitty. Jannes From: Beth create_me_...@yahoo.com To: FeLV Talk Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wed, March 23, 2011 11:23:13 AM Subject: [Felvtalk] Keep Studs in your thoughts Please I was supposed to have a new FeLV kitty Studs aka Stud Muffin last night, but the lady who was transporting him left him in a carrier in her carport with no food or water all day. I live in Atlanta it has been hot. He had to be treated for severe dehydration is currently at the vet. They also discovered he had a severe heart murmur, so they are going to check to see if that can me managed with meds or if it is too late. He is apparently a total love bug. My favorite kind of cat - big black short haired cat with green eyes. Beth Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors
That's horrible, and many people do not realize what it entails and how many cats lose their lives - they think it's a manicure...but many vets are to blame. Several people told me that after adopting from us, they went to their own vet, and after telling them that the cats will be kept indoors only, the vets said Oh, you have an option to declaw! Banfield Health. The group at Petsmart, offers a big special for kitten health - all the vaccines, exams, and declawing for a very good price! I wrote to them about declawing; they wrote back with the most ridiculous comments. If anyone would like to see their reply, I'll send it privately. Last year, I was informed that they will no longer cut ears and tails on dogs, because it's purely cosmetic...I wrote to them, asking their policy on declawing since they have made that big leap on no longer mutilating dogs, they might have reconsidered doing it to cats...no reply from them. O always ask people what they would prefer, a few things scratched up or urine-soaked carpets and furniture.Besides, not all cats grow up to be scratchers...and providing good posts and trimming their nails works well. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Edna Taylor Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 1:44 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors Natalie, I am with you about the declawing. Someone I know adopted two kittens from me and one died on the table during a declaw surgery. Yes, I HAD told her before hand NO declawing but people don't listen and they always know best, yadda yadda :( Then they wonder why Buster is peeing on the bed and the floor because his paws hurt so badly from the surgery. SIGH :( Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 12:55:49 -0400 From: at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors Edna, that's exactly what I tell people about letting their cats out just because they want to. I ask them if they would allow their 3-yr old to play in the middle of the street just because he/she wanted to? When I hear but the cat gets out, I tell them that they control the door, period! Our adoption contract stipulates strictly indoors - but, there's no real way of enforcing it except to spot check wherever the cats live and hope that adopters understand the reasons for it. I have removed several adopted cats over the past 18 years. A friend, who also has a cat rescue group, doesn't allow declawing (we don't either), came to her vet, and noticed one of her adopters picking up her cat after spayingshe looked into the carrier and noticed the poor kittens front paws bandaged.she gave her an earful, but what was she to do, take the cat back and have this person declaw yet another one? Since then, we made it perfectly clear to that veterinary hospital that no cat that was adopted from us can be declawed, and should a customer ask for it, we must be notified immediately! Thank God that my other veterinarian would never declaw! -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Edna Taylor Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 11:40 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors Just because your kid likes to eat McDonald's every day or binge drink or do drugs because it makes them happy is NOT a reason to allow it. The same reasoning goes for cats, just because they LIKE it doesn't mean it's good for them. My cats may be prisoners in my house but I sleep well at night knowing they are loved and safe and from what I can tell, they are pretty freakin happy. I have picked up enough broken and battered bodies off the roadways to know that NONE of my cats or fosters will EVER be allowed outside unless it is in a safe enclosure or on a leash. There was a young individual (can't call him a man because real men do not torture animals) in Dallas that took his neighbor's inside/outside cat and over a course of several hours beat and tortured the cat and video taped the entire thing. THAT is what happens to outdoor cats. While some may be lucky enough to escape being tortured, hit by cars, eaten by coyotes or hawks or owls, most do not escape this fate. Sorry but I 100% DISAGREE with cats are wild animals and need to live outside point of view. Just my 2 cents. Edna Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 09:13:09 -0400 From: at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors As an adopter, my views on this are very strict and well-defined - I am responsible for placing cats in the safest possible homes, and I would do no less. I need to be able to sleep at night, knowing that the cats that I rescued and invested so much time, energy, and emotion will be safe and happy for a long time. Yes, I
Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors
I can see some times where it is either declaw the cat or end its life.for the safety of an elderly owner for example. That being said, Copper and Thomas have their claws and, with a little planning re furniture, there has been no problem. Dixie and Ebony kept theirs too. Ebony caused some problems but, if I had known then what I know now, I could have limited them. It takes a little work and patience, planning and thinking. I would encourage anyone who wanted a declawed cat to try and get one that has already been declawed. On Mar 23, 2011, at 4:28 PM, Natalie wrote: That's horrible, and many people do not realize what it entails and how many cats lose their lives - they think it's a manicure...but many vets are to blame. Several people told me that after adopting from us, they went to their own vet, and after telling them that the cats will be kept indoors only, the vets said Oh, you have an option to declaw! Banfield Health. The group at Petsmart, offers a big special for kitten health - all the vaccines, exams, and declawing for a very good price! I wrote to them about declawing; they wrote back with the most ridiculous comments. If anyone would like to see their reply, I'll send it privately. Last year, I was informed that they will no longer cut ears and tails on dogs, because it's purely cosmetic...I wrote to them, asking their policy on declawing since they have made that big leap on no longer mutilating dogs, they might have reconsidered doing it to cats...no reply from them. O always ask people what they would prefer, a few things scratched up or urine-soaked carpets and furniture.Besides, not all cats grow up to be scratchers...and providing good posts and trimming their nails works well. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Edna Taylor Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 1:44 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors Natalie, I am with you about the declawing. Someone I know adopted two kittens from me and one died on the table during a declaw surgery. Yes, I HAD told her before hand NO declawing but people don't listen and they always know best, yadda yadda :( Then they wonder why Buster is peeing on the bed and the floor because his paws hurt so badly from the surgery. SIGH :( Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 12:55:49 -0400 From: at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors Edna, that's exactly what I tell people about letting their cats out just because they want to. I ask them if they would allow their 3-yr old to play in the middle of the street just because he/she wanted to? When I hear but the cat gets out, I tell them that they control the door, period! Our adoption contract stipulates strictly indoors - but, there's no real way of enforcing it except to spot check wherever the cats live and hope that adopters understand the reasons for it. I have removed several adopted cats over the past 18 years. A friend, who also has a cat rescue group, doesn't allow declawing (we don't either), came to her vet, and noticed one of her adopters picking up her cat after spayingshe looked into the carrier and noticed the poor kittens front paws bandaged.she gave her an earful, but what was she to do, take the cat back and have this person declaw yet another one? Since then, we made it perfectly clear to that veterinary hospital that no cat that was adopted from us can be declawed, and should a customer ask for it, we must be notified immediately! Thank God that my other veterinarian would never declaw! -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Edna Taylor Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 11:40 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors Just because your kid likes to eat McDonald's every day or binge drink or do drugs because it makes them happy is NOT a reason to allow it. The same reasoning goes for cats, just because they LIKE it doesn't mean it's good for them. My cats may be prisoners in my house but I sleep well at night knowing they are loved and safe and from what I can tell, they are pretty freakin happy. I have picked up enough broken and battered bodies off the roadways to know that NONE of my cats or fosters will EVER be allowed outside unless it is in a safe enclosure or on a leash. There was a young individual (can't call him a man because real men do not torture animals) in Dallas that took his neighbor's inside/outside cat and over a course of several hours beat and tortured the cat and video taped the entire thing. THAT is what happens to outdoor cats. While some may be lucky enough to escape being tortured, hit by cars, eaten by coyotes or
Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors
A good solution for a problem as you mentioned, is trimming claws and using SoftPaws - declawing an older cat can be even worse than for a kitten at times...the pain after surgery is supposed to be absolutely excruciating - cats either climb the walls in the recover cage or sit in the corner, completely catatonic (according to Dr.Nicholas Dodman). -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of MaiMaiPG Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 5:49 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors I can see some times where it is either declaw the cat or end its life.for the safety of an elderly owner for example. That being said, Copper and Thomas have their claws and, with a little planning re furniture, there has been no problem. Dixie and Ebony kept theirs too. Ebony caused some problems but, if I had known then what I know now, I could have limited them. It takes a little work and patience, planning and thinking. I would encourage anyone who wanted a declawed cat to try and get one that has already been declawed. On Mar 23, 2011, at 4:28 PM, Natalie wrote: That's horrible, and many people do not realize what it entails and how many cats lose their lives - they think it's a manicure...but many vets are to blame. Several people told me that after adopting from us, they went to their own vet, and after telling them that the cats will be kept indoors only, the vets said Oh, you have an option to declaw! Banfield Health. The group at Petsmart, offers a big special for kitten health - all the vaccines, exams, and declawing for a very good price! I wrote to them about declawing; they wrote back with the most ridiculous comments. If anyone would like to see their reply, I'll send it privately. Last year, I was informed that they will no longer cut ears and tails on dogs, because it's purely cosmetic...I wrote to them, asking their policy on declawing since they have made that big leap on no longer mutilating dogs, they might have reconsidered doing it to cats...no reply from them. O always ask people what they would prefer, a few things scratched up or urine-soaked carpets and furniture.Besides, not all cats grow up to be scratchers...and providing good posts and trimming their nails works well. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Edna Taylor Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 1:44 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors Natalie, I am with you about the declawing. Someone I know adopted two kittens from me and one died on the table during a declaw surgery. Yes, I HAD told her before hand NO declawing but people don't listen and they always know best, yadda yadda :( Then they wonder why Buster is peeing on the bed and the floor because his paws hurt so badly from the surgery. SIGH :( Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 12:55:49 -0400 From: at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors Edna, that's exactly what I tell people about letting their cats out just because they want to. I ask them if they would allow their 3-yr old to play in the middle of the street just because he/she wanted to? When I hear but the cat gets out, I tell them that they control the door, period! Our adoption contract stipulates strictly indoors - but, there's no real way of enforcing it except to spot check wherever the cats live and hope that adopters understand the reasons for it. I have removed several adopted cats over the past 18 years. A friend, who also has a cat rescue group, doesn't allow declawing (we don't either), came to her vet, and noticed one of her adopters picking up her cat after spayingshe looked into the carrier and noticed the poor kittens front paws bandaged.she gave her an earful, but what was she to do, take the cat back and have this person declaw yet another one? Since then, we made it perfectly clear to that veterinary hospital that no cat that was adopted from us can be declawed, and should a customer ask for it, we must be notified immediately! Thank God that my other veterinarian would never declaw! -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Edna Taylor Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 11:40 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors Just because your kid likes to eat McDonald's every day or binge drink or do drugs because it makes them happy is NOT a reason to allow it. The same reasoning goes for cats, just because they LIKE it doesn't mean it's good for them. My cats may be prisoners in my house
Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors
That is a good optionif the owner is able to trim nails and put SoftPaws on. A lot of elderly people don't have the physical dexterity or skills to trim nails. In fact, I have watched young people who could not master the task. On Mar 23, 2011, at 5:05 PM, Natalie wrote: A good solution for a problem as you mentioned, is trimming claws and using SoftPaws - declawing an older cat can be even worse than for a kitten at times...the pain after surgery is supposed to be absolutely excruciating - cats either climb the walls in the recover cage or sit in the corner, completely catatonic (according to Dr.Nicholas Dodman). -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of MaiMaiPG Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 5:49 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors I can see some times where it is either declaw the cat or end its life.for the safety of an elderly owner for example. That being said, Copper and Thomas have their claws and, with a little planning re furniture, there has been no problem. Dixie and Ebony kept theirs too. Ebony caused some problems but, if I had known then what I know now, I could have limited them. It takes a little work and patience, planning and thinking. I would encourage anyone who wanted a declawed cat to try and get one that has already been declawed. On Mar 23, 2011, at 4:28 PM, Natalie wrote: That's horrible, and many people do not realize what it entails and how many cats lose their lives - they think it's a manicure...but many vets are to blame. Several people told me that after adopting from us, they went to their own vet, and after telling them that the cats will be kept indoors only, the vets said Oh, you have an option to declaw! Banfield Health. The group at Petsmart, offers a big special for kitten health - all the vaccines, exams, and declawing for a very good price! I wrote to them about declawing; they wrote back with the most ridiculous comments. If anyone would like to see their reply, I'll send it privately. Last year, I was informed that they will no longer cut ears and tails on dogs, because it's purely cosmetic...I wrote to them, asking their policy on declawing since they have made that big leap on no longer mutilating dogs, they might have reconsidered doing it to cats...no reply from them. O always ask people what they would prefer, a few things scratched up or urine-soaked carpets and furniture.Besides, not all cats grow up to be scratchers...and providing good posts and trimming their nails works well. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Edna Taylor Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 1:44 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors Natalie, I am with you about the declawing. Someone I know adopted two kittens from me and one died on the table during a declaw surgery. Yes, I HAD told her before hand NO declawing but people don't listen and they always know best, yadda yadda :( Then they wonder why Buster is peeing on the bed and the floor because his paws hurt so badly from the surgery. SIGH :( Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 12:55:49 -0400 From: at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors Edna, that's exactly what I tell people about letting their cats out just because they want to. I ask them if they would allow their 3-yr old to play in the middle of the street just because he/she wanted to? When I hear but the cat gets out, I tell them that they control the door, period! Our adoption contract stipulates strictly indoors - but, there's no real way of enforcing it except to spot check wherever the cats live and hope that adopters understand the reasons for it. I have removed several adopted cats over the past 18 years. A friend, who also has a cat rescue group, doesn't allow declawing (we don't either), came to her vet, and noticed one of her adopters picking up her cat after spayingshe looked into the carrier and noticed the poor kittens front paws bandaged.she gave her an earful, but what was she to do, take the cat back and have this person declaw yet another one? Since then, we made it perfectly clear to that veterinary hospital that no cat that was adopted from us can be declawed, and should a customer ask for it, we must be notified immediately! Thank God that my other veterinarian would never declaw! -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Edna Taylor Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 11:40 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors Just because your kid likes to eat McDonald's every day or binge drink or do drugs because it makes them happy is NOT a reason to allow it. The
Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors
A vet, a vet tech, or a friend could do it - surely a better option than putting a cat through such torture, not to mention complete personality change to being withdrawn, morose, or an unpredictable biter! Cat bites are more dangerous than scratches any time! -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of MaiMaiPG Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 6:14 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors That is a good optionif the owner is able to trim nails and put SoftPaws on. A lot of elderly people don't have the physical dexterity or skills to trim nails. In fact, I have watched young people who could not master the task. On Mar 23, 2011, at 5:05 PM, Natalie wrote: A good solution for a problem as you mentioned, is trimming claws and using SoftPaws - declawing an older cat can be even worse than for a kitten at times...the pain after surgery is supposed to be absolutely excruciating - cats either climb the walls in the recover cage or sit in the corner, completely catatonic (according to Dr.Nicholas Dodman). -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of MaiMaiPG Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 5:49 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors I can see some times where it is either declaw the cat or end its life.for the safety of an elderly owner for example. That being said, Copper and Thomas have their claws and, with a little planning re furniture, there has been no problem. Dixie and Ebony kept theirs too. Ebony caused some problems but, if I had known then what I know now, I could have limited them. It takes a little work and patience, planning and thinking. I would encourage anyone who wanted a declawed cat to try and get one that has already been declawed. On Mar 23, 2011, at 4:28 PM, Natalie wrote: That's horrible, and many people do not realize what it entails and how many cats lose their lives - they think it's a manicure...but many vets are to blame. Several people told me that after adopting from us, they went to their own vet, and after telling them that the cats will be kept indoors only, the vets said Oh, you have an option to declaw! Banfield Health. The group at Petsmart, offers a big special for kitten health - all the vaccines, exams, and declawing for a very good price! I wrote to them about declawing; they wrote back with the most ridiculous comments. If anyone would like to see their reply, I'll send it privately. Last year, I was informed that they will no longer cut ears and tails on dogs, because it's purely cosmetic...I wrote to them, asking their policy on declawing since they have made that big leap on no longer mutilating dogs, they might have reconsidered doing it to cats...no reply from them. O always ask people what they would prefer, a few things scratched up or urine-soaked carpets and furniture.Besides, not all cats grow up to be scratchers...and providing good posts and trimming their nails works well. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Edna Taylor Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 1:44 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors Natalie, I am with you about the declawing. Someone I know adopted two kittens from me and one died on the table during a declaw surgery. Yes, I HAD told her before hand NO declawing but people don't listen and they always know best, yadda yadda :( Then they wonder why Buster is peeing on the bed and the floor because his paws hurt so badly from the surgery. SIGH :( Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 12:55:49 -0400 From: at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors Edna, that's exactly what I tell people about letting their cats out just because they want to. I ask them if they would allow their 3-yr old to play in the middle of the street just because he/she wanted to? When I hear but the cat gets out, I tell them that they control the door, period! Our adoption contract stipulates strictly indoors - but, there's no real way of enforcing it except to spot check wherever the cats live and hope that adopters understand the reasons for it. I have removed several adopted cats over the past 18 years. A friend, who also has a cat rescue group, doesn't allow declawing (we don't either), came to her vet, and noticed one of her adopters picking up her cat after spayingshe looked into the carrier and noticed the poor kittens front paws bandaged.she gave her an earful, but what was she to do, take the cat back and have this person declaw yet another one? Since then, we made it perfectly clear to that
Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
I guess the birds should have stayed dinosaurs, then... ;-) From: LauraM [mailto:hingebacktorto...@yahoo.com] Sent: Tue 3/22/2011 7:56 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors Yes, the number one cause of bird extinction is habitat loss, but cats are #2. There's a well-known study that was conducted on a couple of adjacent beaches in California, one with a feral cat population and one without. The beach that is home to feral cats has no birds - remember that most shorebirds are ground nesters - while the cat-free beach supports a healthy bird population. Of course, our birds have natural predators - some raptors such as red-tailed hawks prey mostly on birds. Kingsnakes and rat snakes are known for feasting on eggs and hatchlings. But this is natural predation so things are kept in balance. Throw in a highly efficient predator such as a cat and the balance changes. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors
Those may be very reasonable options for a lot of people. However, I suspect you overestimate the resources available to everyone. Not everyone can drive; not everyone has someone who can/will attempt to trim a cat's nails; not everyone can afford a trip to the vet's every 2-4 weeks; and not every cat can be rehomed. Mass transit is not available everywhere. I agree that it should be a last resort. However, I am not willing to condemn everyone who declaws. On Mar 23, 2011, at 5:25 PM, Natalie wrote: A vet, a vet tech, or a friend could do it - surely a better option than putting a cat through such torture, not to mention complete personality change to being withdrawn, morose, or an unpredictable biter! Cat bites are more dangerous than scratches any time! -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of MaiMaiPG Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 6:14 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors That is a good optionif the owner is able to trim nails and put SoftPaws on. A lot of elderly people don't have the physical dexterity or skills to trim nails. In fact, I have watched young people who could not master the task. On Mar 23, 2011, at 5:05 PM, Natalie wrote: A good solution for a problem as you mentioned, is trimming claws and using SoftPaws - declawing an older cat can be even worse than for a kitten at times...the pain after surgery is supposed to be absolutely excruciating - cats either climb the walls in the recover cage or sit in the corner, completely catatonic (according to Dr.Nicholas Dodman). -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of MaiMaiPG Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 5:49 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors I can see some times where it is either declaw the cat or end its life.for the safety of an elderly owner for example. That being said, Copper and Thomas have their claws and, with a little planning re furniture, there has been no problem. Dixie and Ebony kept theirs too. Ebony caused some problems but, if I had known then what I know now, I could have limited them. It takes a little work and patience, planning and thinking. I would encourage anyone who wanted a declawed cat to try and get one that has already been declawed. On Mar 23, 2011, at 4:28 PM, Natalie wrote: That's horrible, and many people do not realize what it entails and how many cats lose their lives - they think it's a manicure...but many vets are to blame. Several people told me that after adopting from us, they went to their own vet, and after telling them that the cats will be kept indoors only, the vets said Oh, you have an option to declaw! Banfield Health. The group at Petsmart, offers a big special for kitten health - all the vaccines, exams, and declawing for a very good price! I wrote to them about declawing; they wrote back with the most ridiculous comments. If anyone would like to see their reply, I'll send it privately. Last year, I was informed that they will no longer cut ears and tails on dogs, because it's purely cosmetic...I wrote to them, asking their policy on declawing since they have made that big leap on no longer mutilating dogs, they might have reconsidered doing it to cats...no reply from them. O always ask people what they would prefer, a few things scratched up or urine-soaked carpets and furniture.Besides, not all cats grow up to be scratchers...and providing good posts and trimming their nails works well. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Edna Taylor Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 1:44 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors Natalie, I am with you about the declawing. Someone I know adopted two kittens from me and one died on the table during a declaw surgery. Yes, I HAD told her before hand NO declawing but people don't listen and they always know best, yadda yadda :( Then they wonder why Buster is peeing on the bed and the floor because his paws hurt so badly from the surgery. SIGH :( Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 12:55:49 -0400 From: at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors Edna, that's exactly what I tell people about letting their cats out just because they want to. I ask them if they would allow their 3-yr old to play in the middle of the street just because he/she wanted to? When I hear but the cat gets out, I tell them that they control the door, period! Our adoption contract stipulates strictly indoors - but, there's no real way of enforcing it except to spot check wherever the cats live and hope that adopters understand the reasons for it. I have removed several adopted cats over
Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors
Shoot, why send it privately? Put it up here for all to see. Name and shame! From: Natalie [mailto:at...@optonline.net] Sent: Wed 3/23/2011 5:28 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors That's horrible, and many people do not realize what it entails and how many cats lose their lives - they think it's a manicure...but many vets are to blame. Several people told me that after adopting from us, they went to their own vet, and after telling them that the cats will be kept indoors only, the vets said Oh, you have an option to declaw! Banfield Health. The group at Petsmart, offers a big special for kitten health - all the vaccines, exams, and declawing for a very good price! I wrote to them about declawing; they wrote back with the most ridiculous comments. If anyone would like to see their reply, I'll send it privately. Last year, I was informed that they will no longer cut ears and tails on dogs, because it's purely cosmetic...I wrote to them, asking their policy on declawing since they have made that big leap on no longer mutilating dogs, they might have reconsidered doing it to cats...no reply from them. O always ask people what they would prefer, a few things scratched up or urine-soaked carpets and furniture.Besides, not all cats grow up to be scratchers...and providing good posts and trimming their nails works well. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
Maureen - I am in GA also, and analysis of coyote stomach contents showed that something like 60% of them contained cat remains. I suspect that's why we have such a coyote problem, even in the suburbs - they are supplied with an endless number of cats as prey - somebody's cat goes missing and they just replace it with another one. --- On Wed, 3/23/11, Maureen Olvey molvey...@hotmail.com wrote: From: Maureen Olvey molvey...@hotmail.com Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Wednesday, March 23, 2011, 3:58 AM You can also take it further and reiterate that humans are the #1 killers of birds because of the dummies that let their un-altered pet cats run around outside and breed and have kittens everywhere, not just because of the habitat destruction that we do. I think where I live in GA some of the rodents are getting a reprive because all the coyotes who would normally eat some of the rodents are getting full on my feral cats. It's so sad. I don't hate the coyotes for doing it (just like I don't hate or blame cats for killing other small prey) but it breaks my heart everytime a feral goes missing. All points always come back to the main topic of the importance of keeping the cats indoors (and getting them fixed). All we can do is spread the message and hope it makes a difference. And it my part of the world it has made a huge difference. When I was a kid, no one contemplated keeping a cat indoors it's whole life. But now, more and more people are. I can tell by the people I meet at our adoptions. Things are changing - we just have a long way to go still. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 18:23:12 -0700 From: sin...@sbcglobal.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors LOL Humans are a non-native, introduced and subsidized predators.G This is like expecting pet owners to spay or neuter their pets, interesting idea, one which I would love to see, but seeing and knowing human nature is not going to happen in my lifetime. SomeWhere Sam From: LauraM hingebacktorto...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tue, March 22, 2011 6:42:23 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors I've tried using those statistics on people who refuse to contain their cats, thinking they MIGHT care about wildlife even though they clearly aren't concerned with their cats' own safety. Hasn't worked. There are also people out there who want irresponsible owners of bird-killing cats to be held legally liable, as it's a violation of federal law to kill most bird species has been for decades. And in some areas cats have reduced the rodent population to such low numbers that migrating raptors - all federally protected - have nothing to eat. Cats, as non-native, introduced and subsidized predators, have no business being outside. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] Please help: Having trouble ordering LTCI
Hello all—My name is Sean, and our wonderful 10-year-old cat Felix was diagnosed FeLV+ in the summer of 2009 after he came down with a horrendous case of stomatitis. Desperate for help, we did some googling and discovered LTCI. He has been on it ever since, and we couldn't be more pleased with the results: He's had no further symptoms, and his bloodwork and overall health are better now than they were two years ago! He's a remarkable guy. :) But we've run into a problem. We administered our last remaining dose today (we have a few more but they're set to expire in a week or so) and realized we hadn't heard from our vet about a new supply. (We recently had a baby two months earlier than expected, so in the chaos we didn't notice until now!) I called our vet and she said she hasn't had any luck getting ahold of the company that supplied it to her in the past, and none of her contacts could reach them either. Does anyone on this list know of current, working contact information for the manufacturers or distributors of LTCI, or even of any vets that our vet could purchase it from as a middleman? I know the company changed hands sometime last year, but I could swear she's ordered it since that time with no problems. I need to provide our vet with a working phone number she can call to order our next supply of doses. We are obviously just as desperate to get this medicine now as we were two years ago. Any assistance would be so greatly appreciated. Thank you! Sean -- Sean T. Collins nonserv...@aya.yale.edu ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors
That is true, but I don't understand why an old person can't have a cat with claws. Dealing mostly with feral cats, I have never been bitten or scratched - what's the danger, I am 70 yrs old. And as I said, bites are a natural defense for declawed cats! -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of MaiMaiPG Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 6:40 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors Those may be very reasonable options for a lot of people. However, I suspect you overestimate the resources available to everyone. Not everyone can drive; not everyone has someone who can/will attempt to trim a cat's nails; not everyone can afford a trip to the vet's every 2-4 weeks; and not every cat can be rehomed. Mass transit is not available everywhere. I agree that it should be a last resort. However, I am not willing to condemn everyone who declaws. On Mar 23, 2011, at 5:25 PM, Natalie wrote: A vet, a vet tech, or a friend could do it - surely a better option than putting a cat through such torture, not to mention complete personality change to being withdrawn, morose, or an unpredictable biter! Cat bites are more dangerous than scratches any time! -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of MaiMaiPG Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 6:14 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors That is a good optionif the owner is able to trim nails and put SoftPaws on. A lot of elderly people don't have the physical dexterity or skills to trim nails. In fact, I have watched young people who could not master the task. On Mar 23, 2011, at 5:05 PM, Natalie wrote: A good solution for a problem as you mentioned, is trimming claws and using SoftPaws - declawing an older cat can be even worse than for a kitten at times...the pain after surgery is supposed to be absolutely excruciating - cats either climb the walls in the recover cage or sit in the corner, completely catatonic (according to Dr.Nicholas Dodman). -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of MaiMaiPG Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 5:49 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors I can see some times where it is either declaw the cat or end its life.for the safety of an elderly owner for example. That being said, Copper and Thomas have their claws and, with a little planning re furniture, there has been no problem. Dixie and Ebony kept theirs too. Ebony caused some problems but, if I had known then what I know now, I could have limited them. It takes a little work and patience, planning and thinking. I would encourage anyone who wanted a declawed cat to try and get one that has already been declawed. On Mar 23, 2011, at 4:28 PM, Natalie wrote: That's horrible, and many people do not realize what it entails and how many cats lose their lives - they think it's a manicure...but many vets are to blame. Several people told me that after adopting from us, they went to their own vet, and after telling them that the cats will be kept indoors only, the vets said Oh, you have an option to declaw! Banfield Health. The group at Petsmart, offers a big special for kitten health - all the vaccines, exams, and declawing for a very good price! I wrote to them about declawing; they wrote back with the most ridiculous comments. If anyone would like to see their reply, I'll send it privately. Last year, I was informed that they will no longer cut ears and tails on dogs, because it's purely cosmetic...I wrote to them, asking their policy on declawing since they have made that big leap on no longer mutilating dogs, they might have reconsidered doing it to cats...no reply from them. O always ask people what they would prefer, a few things scratched up or urine-soaked carpets and furniture.Besides, not all cats grow up to be scratchers...and providing good posts and trimming their nails works well. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Edna Taylor Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 1:44 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors Natalie, I am with you about the declawing. Someone I know adopted two kittens from me and one died on the table during a declaw surgery. Yes, I HAD told her before hand NO declawing but people don't listen and they always know best, yadda yadda :( Then they wonder why Buster is peeing on the bed and the floor because his paws hurt so badly from the surgery. SIGH :( Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 12:55:49 -0400 From: at...@optonline.net To:
Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
Yikes! I don't like those statistics at all but I believe it. I've been feeding ferals at my office for the last 8 years. Several months back I found one dead and half eaten, then another one went missing not too long after that. A week or two later I saw a coyote in the parking lot of the office building next to us. I work at night a lot so I have more of an opportunity to see them than some people. I stopped leaving food out for my cats at night. After not seeing the coyote for a while I got back in the bad habit of leaving cat food out at night. Just last week I walked outside about 10 PM and there was the coyote at the food dish, which isn't too far away from my front door. The coyote didn't scare me but then I saw my two remaining semi-feral cats running towards me and realized they had been close by while the coyote was eating. I've stopped leaving food out and hopefully he'll move on. I'm so scared for my cats at the office. I wish that if I left a lot of food out for the coyote he'd stay full and leave the cats alone. I don't think it works that way though. He'll still want to chase and kill them because of his instinct. I really wish pet cats could roam outside and enjoy the extra freedom. But stuff like this has made me more of an advocate of keeping them indoors all the time, unless you have a cat fence or something. Loose dogs have always been a problem killing cats but I don't remember having a coyote problem as a kid. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 17:24:10 -0700 From: hingebacktorto...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors Maureen - I am in GA also, and analysis of coyote stomach contents showed that something like 60% of them contained cat remains. I suspect that's why we have such a coyote problem, even in the suburbs - they are supplied with an endless number of cats as prey - somebody's cat goes missing and they just replace it with another one. --- On Wed, 3/23/11, Maureen Olvey molvey...@hotmail.com wrote: From: Maureen Olvey molvey...@hotmail.com Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Wednesday, March 23, 2011, 3:58 AM You can also take it further and reiterate that humans are the #1 killers of birds because of the dummies that let their un-altered pet cats run around outside and breed and have kittens everywhere, not just because of the habitat destruction that we do. I think where I live in GA some of the rodents are getting a reprive because all the coyotes who would normally eat some of the rodents are getting full on my feral cats. It's so sad. I don't hate the coyotes for doing it (just like I don't hate or blame cats for killing other small prey) but it breaks my heart everytime a feral goes missing. All points always come back to the main topic of the importance of keeping the cats indoors (and getting them fixed). All we can do is spread the message and hope it makes a difference. And it my part of the world it has made a huge difference. When I was a kid, no one contemplated keeping a cat indoors it's whole life. But now, more and more people are. I can tell by the people I meet at our adoptions. Things are changing - we just have a long way to go still. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 18:23:12 -0700 From: sin...@sbcglobal.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors LOL Humans are a non-native, introduced and subsidized predators.G This is like expecting pet owners to spay or neuter their pets, interesting idea, one which I would love to see, but seeing and knowing human nature is not going to happen in my lifetime. SomeWhere Sam From: LauraM hingebacktorto...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tue, March 22, 2011 6:42:23 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors I've tried using those statistics on people who refuse to contain their cats, thinking they MIGHT care about wildlife even though they clearly aren't concerned with their cats' own safety. Hasn't worked. There are also people out there who want irresponsible owners of bird-killing cats to be held legally liable, as it's a violation of federal law to kill most bird
