[Finale] Re: Finale Digest, Vol 8, Issue 16
Barbara Touburg wrote (re: Jari): Thanks for gossipping. I assume the child is born by now? Couldn't we send him our congratulations and ask him to return to the list and/or to his plugins? Yes, a daughter (in early October). I haven't heard from Jari in a while, but why not write him at [EMAIL PROTECTED] ? Chuck Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Jari
Jari gossip. I was in Gothenberg in the Fall and had the good fortune of spending a nice leisurely breakfast with Jari. He and his wife were about to have a child. So this may explain why demands on his time may be pulling him away from Finale concerns. Chuck Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Measure number Plug in request
Here's a question for plugin developers: Is it practical/possible to create a plug in which will renumber measures, taking into account first and second endings? In other words (a simple example), you have a 32 measure form in which the first 8 measures and measures 17 through 24 are identical; you could make measures 9 - 16, and 25 - 32, into first and second endings; then you could number the first region twice - 1 - 8, and 17 - 24 (being careful to end the first region at "real" measure 8, and the second set of numbers at 16), start a new number region at what looks to Finale like measure 17, start numbering there at 25, and all is logical. Of course, this requires a horizontal offset for the second set of numbers in the first region and a lot of counting of measures to do it successfully. Imagine a succession of choruses of "Sweet Georgia Brown", ABAC - in which A sections in each chorus are identical. Plugin? Thanks, Chuck ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2K4 Mac bugs
Dear Allen, I did send this in. Since I wrote it yesterday I have explored it further and found that I was partly mistaken about one of these things (just slightly). The page layout behavior is almost as I described, but the problem is restricted to this: Finale is doing part of what it is supposed to do when you type in new values, you can tell it is calculating things because a new number appears in the space for "required for new system" (or whatever it's called), but the changes do not take effect until you click again on the page (anywhere). I have a friend in Vancouver (BC) whom I called about this, and he does not experience this at all - using almost an identical setup. We both have G5's - I am running Panther. I don't know what OS version he has. Also, I don't remember this behavior from 2003: when you have the page layout tool selected, and edit margins or systems (or both) selected, the dialog boxes for those things remain grayed out until I click on them. This is annoying - requiring more mousing and clicking, and I don't understand why it happens in what seems to be an inconsistent manner. I just opened a file created in 2003. It converted to 2004 and I chose page layout. Edit page margins was then open and highlighted, but as soon as I clicked anywhere, it grayed out until I again clicked on the dialog box. So, again I was wrong about something yesterday: this behavior is not restricted to files created from 2004 templates. It is happening in converted files too. The strange thing is that I have been working for a couple of weeks updating layouts of converted files and things were behaving normally! I will copy this email to the list to see if anyone there has useful input. Meanwhile, I appreciate your lurking presence and interested response. Chuck On Feb 11, 2004, at 6:01 AM, Fisher, Allen wrote: Chuck, Make sure you send this in to Tech Support. We can't address things unless we know about 'em. :-) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chuck Israels Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 4:34 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Finale] 2K4 Mac bugs Here is a report on a couple of troublesome aspects of working in the new OS X version: When you are in page view (working on parts) and select a system, or a system range, and you type in a "space between systems" value, then click "apply," (I don't think the usual keyboard shortcut of using the "enter" or "return" key works either, you must click the button) nothing happens. The new spacing only takes effect when you click again on the page. This is buggy indeed. Strangely, his behavior is not evident in older parts converted from Finale 2003 into 2004 - they behave as expected. I have only noticed this in parts created from a new template in 2004. Also some Smart shapes (hairpins, glissandi) are reluctant to draw. There is some delay between the cursor position and the drawing of the shape. This is annoying (and slows things down) and often requires an "overshoot and retreat" movement in order to control the drawing. And automatic spacing no longer works for me. I need to use the mass edit tool and apply note spacing before the screen will update with the correct spacing. Automatic spacing worked well for me in 2003. Am I missing something? If these are truly bugs (I did report the behavior), and will be fixed in a maintenance release, that's one thing. If I'm overlooking something, I'd be delighted to get some enlightening info. The new position assignable expressions are a great benefit of the upgrade. Chuck On Feb 10, 2004, at 10:00 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Brooklyn NY Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] 2K4 Mac bugs
Here is a report on a couple of troublesome aspects of working in the new OS X version: When you are in page view (working on parts) and select a system, or a system range, and you type in a "space between systems" value, then click "apply," (I don't think the usual keyboard shortcut of using the "enter" or "return" key works either, you must click the button) nothing happens. The new spacing only takes effect when you click again on the page. This is buggy indeed. Strangely, his behavior is not evident in older parts converted from Finale 2003 into 2004 - they behave as expected. I have only noticed this in parts created from a new template in 2004. Also some Smart shapes (hairpins, glissandi) are reluctant to draw. There is some delay between the cursor position and the drawing of the shape. This is annoying (and slows things down) and often requires an "overshoot and retreat" movement in order to control the drawing. And automatic spacing no longer works for me. I need to use the mass edit tool and apply note spacing before the screen will update with the correct spacing. Automatic spacing worked well for me in 2003. Am I missing something? If these are truly bugs (I did report the behavior), and will be fixed in a maintenance release, that's one thing. If I'm overlooking something, I'd be delighted to get some enlightening info. The new position assignable expressions are a great benefit of the upgrade. Chuck On Feb 10, 2004, at 10:00 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Brooklyn NY Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] pronunciation and hyphens
Crystal Premo wrote: A quick survey of the 14 people here in this room in NYC revealed that they all say "o-pen-ing". Hmmmn, "o-pen-ing night" or, "another op'ning of another show." Context sometimes controls pronunciation. It's a strange language, (but so are most others). I tend to not worry about whether a practice seems archaic or not, but rather whether the communication is clear and unambiguous. "Op'-ning" seems to satisfy that criterion. An interesting aspect of this (to me - and I would think, to any music graphics person) is that the translation of aural experience into the written code that is assumed to represent it most often misrepresents it by losing the variety and nuance that is more naturally conveyed and preserved by oral/aural "data transmission." Chuck Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: Tuplet brackets in slurred passages - Darcy
Darcy wrote: [N.B. In jazz, bracketed triplets are always supposed to go above the staff, so I'm kind of constrained there. It would be convenient to put all the triplet brackets below the staff and all the slurs above, but jazz players aren't used to seeing triplet brackets below the staff.] Darcy, I have always adhered to the convention that tuplet brackets go above the notes when the stems go up or are mixed and below when the stems are all down. No one has complained (almost all of my players are jazz musicians at one level or another), and the page looks neater to me that way. Slurs crashing through tuplet brackets are not beautiful, and I'd avoid the condition when possible but, if it's the only solution, I prefer it to moving the brackets. Chuck Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: confirming Darcy's experience
Re Christopher's (and others) midi problems: Ever since (with great trepidation, much encouragement and advice from Darcy, and quite a bit of help from my local former student/Mac guru) I installed OS 10.2 and got midi running, I haven't had another problem - no loss of connection - nothing - only a slight delay on playback, which causes me no great hardship. It even continued to work (with no further fussing) when I converted to OS 10.3 (Panther). This is running in "classic" of course but, wonder of wonders, it's been entirely stable - a condition I have never experienced in OS 9. Darcy is (as usual) correct in stating that both OS X and OS 9 drivers are necessary. I'm eagerly awaiting FinMac 2004, but working happily on the G5 (having delivered on a promise to recycle my G4 to a friend in Sweden on a recent trip - thereby forcing the conversion). Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] More on octave jumps in speedy
Craig Parmerlee and David Bailey wrote about an occasional problem of octave displacement when exiting the speedy entry frame. I don't believe this is a hardware problem as David has suggested. I have experienced this over a period of a few years, perhaps in both 2002 and 2003 (Mac). It hasn't proved to be a big problem and doesn't happen so often that I get irritated by it, but it has certainly been a bug that has bitten a few times. The only time it's a problem is when I don't notice it until after I've printed scores and parts and then have to go back. It's easy enough to correct with a single mass mover keystroke, if you notice it when it happens. Chuck I've never run into this on anything other than percussion staves and not with those for several versions. But if you are running into it using normal speedy entry, with more than one version of Finale and you never ran into it before with Finale2002, my bet is that something is wrong with your computer, not Finale. Did you install some other new software at around the time you installed Finale2004, something that has some process running in the background? Just a thought. Craig Parmerlee wrote: Last week I mentioned that when using Speedy tool on F2004, I am frequently getting cases where measures are getting transposed down an octave. Well, now it has happened to me on F2002, so apparently there is some long-standing bug out there. Here is the situation. I believe it has only happened when I am viewing in instrument pitch (not concert pitch). I select Speedy tool. I edit one note in a measure that contains many notes. While I am editing, the notes appear correctly, but when I leave the measure, all of the notes in that measure are shifted exactly one octave lower -- even the ones I didn't touch. In most, if not all, cases, the editing I am doing is to lower or raise the pitch using the minus or plus keys. I use the keys on the main keyboard for this -- not the numeric keypad. Unfortunately it is intermittent, so I can't reproduce it at will. Anybody else having this? Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Schools and degrees
Apropos the short discussion of places to seek masters degrees in composition: This is such a personal choice (if it is to be made well) that it is almost irresponsible to make suggestions without knowing the student and the particular needs. That said, it is essential for all students to understand that there is not likely to be an ideal institution for his or her situation. Schools are designed for the convenience of their own organization, not for individual students. This is neither evil, nor particularly difficult to understand, but knowing that this situation exists allows each student to approach the situation with the attitude that there is a negotiation to be realized; one in which the student gives up as little of importance as possible, and gets as much as possible in return. This turns out to be an individual bargain made with relatively monolithic institutions. Get to a person within that institution that is sympathetic and can make adjustments on your behalf, and do the best you can. Chuck Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] system margins
Hi All, Maybe someone could shed some light on "system margins." I've tried several ways to handle them (mostly for piano-vocals and lead sheets) and find that the easiest most efficient way seems to be to set them all to zero, and just use "distance between systems" for spacing. Is there something wrong with this method that I'm missing? Is there a benefit to adding space around a system? Thanks for your input. - Ken The well informed and experienced Robert Patterson recommended this "zero" method some time ago. I have been using it without problem ever since and find it easier and less confusing than putting various numbers in many boxes. I can't see any advantage to another method for the work that I do. Chuck -- Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham WA 98225-5836 (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 http://www.chuckisraels.com/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] midi in classic on a G5
Informational post: My talented Mac guru has succeeded in getting rudimentary midi input and output on my new G5 using 2003 in classic mode! He works so fast that I can give no helpful hints as to how this was accomplished (but I am using the midiman uno interface that Darcy recommended). I am simply letting everyone know that it is possible, and I am grateful to be able to continue my work between now and version 2004. Chuck ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] midiman driver problem - update
Yesterday I wrote: On Darcy's advice, I just got what I thought would be the only midi interface that would work in Classic, so that I might be able to work in FinMac 2003 for a couple of weeks while waiting for 2004, and the installer seems to get to the end of the installation, and then there is a message reading: The operation could not be completed due to system error (volume locked). Well, I woke up this morning with one of those "eureka" moments where your brain has been working while you sleep and figured out that the driver I was installing was an OS 9 driver (since it automatically opens the classic environment before starting the installation process), and that it is the classic system that is locked on the G5. So I found the OS X driver and installed it. It remains to be seen if that will work. It may be that those who are successfully working with Finale in classic have earlier generation machines in which this works because they have been able to boot in system 9 and install the system 9 driver. I also realize that, in my earlier post, I neglected to remind possible helpers that I'm on a new G5 that will not boot in system 9. I welcome feedback from anyone with experience in this. TIA Chuck___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] M-Audio midiman installer trouble
This is a Mac OS X, Classic emulation question: On Darcy's advice, I just got what I thought would be the only midi interface that would work in Classic, so that I might be able to work in FinMac 2003 for a couple of weeks while waiting for 2004, and the installer seems to get to the end of the installation, and then there is a message reading: The operation could not be completed due to system error (volume locked). Anyone with a solution? Please copy answers to me off list, as I am only receiving the digest, and I'd like a quick response if anyone has useful information. Many thanks, Chuck ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Blues key signatures revisitied
In response to a question about the choice of key signatures for blues
pieces, the majority opinion (with which I agree) seemed to be that
choosing the parallel major (or minor) key conveyed the most
information most efficiently. I have followed that principle in some
work I just completed and, in this particular case, it may not have
been the best choice.
The piece is an updated arrangement of a Jim Hall piece ("Careful")
that Dave Berger arranged for the National Jazz Ensemble some 30 years
ago, a 16 measure "blues" in A based on the three octatonic (whole step
- half step, or half step whole step, depending on where you start)
scales. As Dave has observed, the saxophone parts are unnecessarily
difficult to read with all those sharps, cancellations thereof,
reiterations, accidentals, courtesy accidentals, etc. In this highly
chromatic case, hindsight dictates that the better choice would have
been: no key signature and the descriptive "16 Bar Blues in A" on each
part.
My basic point of view remains the same, but this experience may
provoke thoughtful review of specific highly chromatic cases. Food for
thought.
Chuck
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[Finale] Re: Finale Digest, Vol 2, Issue 10
David H. Bailey wrote: Fly Me to the Moon is a great song for starting a new life -- my niece and her new husband danced to it as the final dance at their reception before departing on their honeymoon. Some years ago (many, actually!), I played in a review of Bart Howard songs (He also wrote the lovely, 'Tis Autumn.) and Bart insisted that the name of that song is "In Other Words", but no one calls it that (except perhaps in his presence). I guess it's like many things about language, they change by consensus. Like the fact that the sign at the grocery checkout says "9 items or less", instead of "9 items or fewer". I miss that nuance, but it doesn't seem to matter to the rest of the English speaking world in it's headlong rush towards efficiency of expression. On the other hand, if I never hear another reporter or TV anchor use "I" in the objective case, it will be too soon. (A Florida newspaper reporter: "They took a picture of Jeb Bush and I.") And it is beyond me how "I couldn't care less" has turned into "I could care less," completely reversing it's meaning while being used in the sense of the original expression. End of Rant. Sorry, Chuck ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Keyboard shortcuts - Finale scripts
Wise ones: Can you enlighten me as to whether or not there's a practical difference between what can be done via Finale script keyboard shortcuts and what can be done with a macro program like Quickeys? (Of course, I appreciate the beauty of avoiding the introduction of an extra application - but does it make a substantial, practical difference?) I have become used to the convenience of my supplemental 20 key X-keys keyboard for tool selection. I imagine that programming this from within Finale would be more elegant, and maybe easier, than setting up Quickeys shortcuts (as I have done) and mapping them to the X-keys but, once it's set up, does it really matter? Is my relative lack of computer savvy making me miss something? Thanks, Chuck -- Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham WA 98225-5836 (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 http://www.chuckisraels.com/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Blues mode key signature
Title: Blues mode key signature Giz Bowe wrote: you're notating a blues in D -- that's D mixolydian. What's your key signature, the standard 2 sharps with an accidental for every C, or 1 sharp to reflect the mode? you're notating a blues in D -- that's D mixolydian. What's your key signature, the standard 2 sharps with an accidental for every C, or 1 sharp to reflect the mode? For my money, you write in D Major - normal key signature. That's just an opinion - a preference, if you will. It's also the way I hear it - with C naturals as lowered leading tones. I also believe that this is far and away the normal convention. Chuck -- Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham WA 98225-5836 (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 http://www.chuckisraels.com/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] "human" playback
Mario Aschauer wrote: Just the human playback... The Viennese Waltz still sounds funny to me. Regards to everyone from Vienna, Mario. Seems to me that you would be in a position to know. I anticipate experiencing the jazz style playback with a mixture of irrational hope and reality based trepidation. I don't think that it is realistic to expect the variety of nuances in human interpretation to be programmed into computer software. Those who get expressive results seem to spend endless hours tweaking their files. I could go on about this, speculating on the range between the possible, the practical, and the unlikely, but I'm not surprised to hear that this aspect of computer playback remains imperfect - part of the "Music Approximation Society." Chuck -- Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham WA 98225-5836 (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 http://www.chuckisraels.com/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] system margins
Hi All, Maybe someone could shed some light on "system margins." I've tried several ways to handle them (mostly for piano-vocals and lead sheets) and find that the easiest most efficient way seems to be to set them all to zero, and just use "distance between systems" for spacing. Is there something wrong with this method that I'm missing? Is there a benefit to adding space around a system? Thanks for your input. - Ken The well informed and experienced Robert Patterson recommended this "zero" method some time ago. I have been using it without problem ever since and find it easier and less confusing than putting various numbers in many boxes. I can't see any advantage to another method for the work that I do. Chuck -- Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham WA 98225-5836 (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 http://www.chuckisraels.com/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Subito p
OK, I'm eagerly awaiting 2004 and Panther..so that I'll be able to use my extra tool pallet keyboard even more easily, without the necessity for QuicKeys to intervene, and scrolling will be built in. And thanks, Darcy, for remembering the configuration with which I am working (OS 9 - awaiting mass migration). But, do any of you have an elegant solution for subito or sub. p? Is there a text font which closely matches the m,p, and f in Maestro? Am I missing something that others have trolled around and found? Chuck -- Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham WA 98225-5836 (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 http://www.chuckisraels.com/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] feature requests
Title: feature requests Noel Stoutenberg wrote: If not implemented in FIN 2k4, one thing I would like to see in 2k5 is the ability to attach an _expression_ to another _expression_, besides being able to attach it to a measure or a note. etc.. This would be useful for "subito p" as wellsomething I have been doing "kludgily" by lining up separate expressions, and separate fonts, since there's no subito in Maestro. Now, here's a question for programing literate folk: Is it a practical idea to ask for the integration of horizontal scrolling without a cursor click in the scrolling line...maybe using the arrow keys or integrated scroll wheels in track balls and mice (let's not get back into the mouses/mice debate, please!)? How nice would it be to avoid moving the cursor to accomplish this. Somehow, my intuition tells me that this is not easy, or it probably would have been done, but maybe someone who knows more than I has an idea. Chuck -- Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham WA 98225-5836 (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 http://www.chuckisraels.com/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Finale] TAN - Alice's Restaurant
Sidebar to all the music discussion: All that stuff in "Alice's Restaurant" really happened. Arlo and his siblings (sister, Nora, and brother, Jaody), were attending my parent's summer arts camp (Indian Hill, in Stockbridge, MA) when the incident that inspired the song occurred. There really was an officer Obie (Bill Obenheim, the local police chief), and an Alice with a restaurant (where, years later, I played many nights after Tanglewood concerts with an excellent jazz quartet). Arlo's mother, Margorie Guthrie, a former Martha Graham dancer, became my mother's best friend that summer, and remained so until she died some years later (Margorie, not my mother). Chuck -- Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham WA 98225-5836 (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 http://www.chuckisraels.com/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] accuracy of notation, swing, etc.
Dear dedicated and committed folks, I have been lurking, watching the swing notation controversy, and feeling reluctant to contribute to maintaining a difficult to resolve thread. But Darcy, in slightly hyperbolic though kind (and appreciated) words, has brought me in. First, I reiterate my profound agreement with Darcy's perceptions about how jazz musicians express rhythm. To play strings of 8th notes in "triplet" feel results in the breaking of lines into two note groups that sound lumpy and hopelessly corny (Humpty Dumpty, I call it). The institutionalization of this practice is partly a result of the institutionalization of a "folk" art into the academy. Jazz education has a lot to answer for. Anticipations - eighth notes on weak beats which are tied over into the following strong beats, or which are followed by silence, are felt and expressed by sensitive jazz musicians as "belonging" to the following beat (they are always treated harmonically so as to agree with the chord which is to come, not the one during which the note actually occurs). Thus, they are truly "anticipations" and are played late (in slightly varying amounts, according to style and local idiom), so that they are closer to the pulse with which they are harmonically associated. (We can only count time forward, "one and, two and", but I tell my students that it's good to think of these things as "and one, and two.") Those notes always "swing" and any jazz musician will play them that way, sometimes in agreement with the drummer's subdivisions of the beat, and sometimes independently creating interesting cross rhythms. For any even reasonably literate jazz musician, special notation for this is redundant and slightly insulting. For most string sections however, there can be problems, as they tend towards a universal interpretation of all eighth notes, and the players can have a more difficult time differentiating between continuous lines and anticipations. In these circumstances, notating the anticipations with triplet subdivisions has proven useful to me. That said, I remember a thread some time ago in which someone spoke of "period" music. From my point of view, all music is "period" music, and we are in (or nearing the end of) a "jazz period", in which conventions are understood and agreed upon across a broad segment of the jazz music reading population (though not among the jazz dabblers like Bernstein and Stravinsky, great musical minds that they were). When this period has run its course, no amount of precision notation will render a score decipherable to future reader/interpreters in such a way that a perfect late 20th Century idiomatic performance will be likely to result. (I for one, don't think I care. If someone finds my music interesting in 2103, perhaps it will sound better to those ears if the interpretation is closer to the conventions of the time than if it adheres slavishly to my conventions. I'd hope that the "architecture" would carry the message.) To those for whom the score is the piece (and I respect them and their point of view, though I think they are doomed to the inevitable frustration of their intentions), there is an understandable striving for great precision and accuracy. For those of us who are writing to organize the coordination of music among associates with whom we are in aural communication, as close as is practical and efficient is the best decision. That's always a judgment call, and more is not always better. Peace, Chuck -- Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham WA 98225-5836 (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 http://www.chuckisraels.com/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Easiest way to change meter globally
Thanks for good advice, Philip, Aaron and Chris. I can see that this is doable - but a little fussy, and I think that I agree with Chris that my first instinct was right (notating the piece in 6/4, the way jazz bass players are used to seeing the pulses). So I'm going to leave it alone. Nonetheless, I'm grateful for the advice about how to do this, if the issue comes up again. Thanks, Chuck -- Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham WA 98225-5836 (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 http://www.chuckisraels.com/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] TAN eighth notes/blessing curse
The "swing" issue is an important one in distinguishing the gap between notation and performance, and points up issues involved in the other TAN discussion taking place at the moment. Mark Lew used an interesting pair of examples to indicate how he experiences "swing" performances of popular music: "I've Found a Million Dollar Baby", the title of which "swings" when spoken in normal American English, and "Polka Dots and Moonbeams", whose words would be emotionally unintelligible spoken with the same rhythmic proportions. Hmmmn. Gunther Schuller once told me that "bebop" eighths were usually played as a quintuplet, divided in 3/2 proportion. Maybe so, but would it be useful to notate that? Whom would it inform? Maybe some meticulous, highly trained musicians especially in tune with complex contemporary notation, would respond with understanding of this notation, but the jazz musicians I know would rebel at the idea that they would be constrained from interpreting the eighths the way they like and would consider this notation pretentious nit picking. Those same musicians, who want the freedom to interpret eighths the way they like, might well be wrong from the point of view of people like me, to whom the feel of the eight notes defines so much of the idiom. I've a hard time with many players when I play Oscar Pettiford's "Tricrotism" with them. The bouncy way they interpret the lines is different enough from my way of hearing them that it often takes 5 or 6 times through the same passage to get it coordinated (with good players!), and then the feel can slip away any time the musicians fail to pay attention to this. Attentive listening to Pettiford's recording of the piece (with Lucky Thompson, another remarkable player whose eighth notes are noticeably straight) will quickly dispel the illusion that a 12/8 feel is uniformly applied to this music. (Another aspect of this is that the inclusion of more or less straight eighths is to enrich the rhythmic palette, so that the shift between the straight and triplet feel becomes another element of expression. Bill Evans' playing is full of this back and forth balance.) As Darcy poignantly points out, this problem is a direct result of "institutionalized" jazz education - often taught by 2nd and 3rd generation "student" musicians who have gone from school to teaching with little more jazz experience than playing in a show band with a jazz singer. (I know, there are numerous exceptions to this, for which I am deeply grateful.) It may be that the idiomatic, to me perfectly balanced, swing feel expressed by the players I listened to as I was learning this music is doomed to disappear. I hope not. All of this discussion relates to the blessing/curse issue too. Notation is inadequate. Humans are imperfect. Nevertheless, some of us choose to write "scripts" for musician/"actors" and would not trade the contributions made by those people to our musical conceptions for any idealized, robotic, version. It's a choice. Chuck -- Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham WA 98225-5836 (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 http://www.chuckisraels.com/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: Swing indication
Darcy Argue wrote: Even in an amateur situation -- *especially* in an amateur situation -- my experience is that the triplet indication just makes things worse. IMO, you would be better to tell them *not* to try to swing the eighth notes in an exaggerated manner. The only thing they should worry about are offbeat eighth notes that are either followed by a rest or tied to another note. Those notes (and no others!) should be delayed -- "laid back" -- and the amount of delay depends on the tempo. If they can manage to do that one thing reasonably consistently, everything else can be sung absolutely straight and the choir will sound 100% hipper than they would if they tried to adopt an artificial quarter-eighth triplet swing feel. I am 100% in agreement with Darcy on this, and it is one of the unfortunate shortcomings of institutionalized jazz education that this misinformation continues to be perpetrated as "gospel". In fact, it is more useful to suggest that all eighth note passages that do not fit Darcy's clear description of anticipations should be played more or less as you would play the same passages if they had been written by Bach. "Swinging" strings of eighth notes separates things into groups of two, strong - weak - strong - weak, kills any sense of line, and sounds plain silly. Jazz musicians do not play this way. Chuck -- Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham WA 98225-5836 (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 http://www.chuckisraels.com/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: Swing indication
Darcy Argue wrote: Even in an amateur situation -- *especially* in an amateur situation -- my experience is that the triplet indication just makes things worse. IMO, you would be better to tell them *not* to try to swing the eighth notes in an exaggerated manner. The only thing they should worry about are offbeat eighth notes that are either followed by a rest or tied to another note. Those notes (and no others!) should be delayed -- "laid back" -- and the amount of delay depends on the tempo. If they can manage to do that one thing reasonably consistently, everything else can be sung absolutely straight and the choir will sound 100% hipper than they would if they tried to adopt an artificial quarter-eighth triplet swing feel. I am 100% in agreement with Darcy on this, and it is one of the unfortunate shortcomings of institutionalized jazz education that this misinformation continues to be perpetrated as "gospel". In fact, it is more useful to suggest that all eighth note passages that do not fit Darcy's clear description of anticipations should be played more or less as you would play the same passages if they had been written by Bach. "Swinging" strings of eighth notes separates things into groups of two, strong - weak - strong - weak, kills any sense of line, and sounds plain silly. Jazz musicians do not play this way. Chuck -- Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham WA 98225-5836 (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 http://www.chuckisraels.com/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: Reduced activity
From Philip Aker: Have patience Randy, the OS X version of Finale will be out RSN, and you'll have comments galore! 8-)>>>>>>>>>>>>>> None too soon. Lurking. Chuck -- Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham WA 98225-5836 (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 http://www.chuckisraels.com/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: Engraver's Slurs: [was] [Finale] My personal wish-list
At 12:37 AM -0400 7/19/02, Steven Powell wrote: >Johannes Gebauer wrote: >... >>> --Add an option to the Engraver's slurs to allow the user to set the angle >>> of the slur going from one system to the next. >> >> Can you explain exactly how you want this to work? My Engraver slurs >> requests are dealt with separately, and I'd really like to know exactly what >> you are missing. I haven't yet noticed anything in particular with slurs and >> system breaks. The improvements to Engraver slurs in general since 2k2 are >> in fact much bigger than it seems at first glance. >_ > >Top quality slurs (in my opinion, obviously) going from system to system >should appear to "extend" as they get to the end of the system. In other >words, the slope of the slur should either be going up or should be >horizontal as it hits the final barline, and should begin from that point >when it "re-enters" the system below. It should not be possible to confuse a >system-to-system slur with a tie, or to need two looks to be sure that the >slur isn't intended to end on the upper system. > >Finale's engraver slurs have no setting for this--the closest thing to it is >the "avoid staff lines" option box and it doesn't affect the slope of the >slur at all. The result is that I find I have to adjust every slur in every >piece I do when it extends from one system to the next. > >Steve Powell >DVM Publications >www.dvmpublications.com > Steve, I agree - completely. I must adjust all of these cross system slurs by hand, and it's hard to get them to look just right. It does seem to be something that could be built into a system break calculation and automated to work better than I can do it by eye, but that is simply more than I had hoped. The fact that, after years of requesting that tuplet "hooks" reverse direction automatically as they are dragged past the middle staff line, I am still waiting for this seemingly simple implementation has lowered some of my expectations. Still, we can continue to request - and dream. Chuck -- Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham WA 98225-5836 (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Globally changing measure nos position
>> >>If there isn't a way to set the font and position of measure numbers for a >>whole piece this would be a good task for a plugin I guess. I am just >>surprised it doesn't exist yet. Or does it? > >OK, I see the problem. Yes, it would be a very good thing! And if >it does exist, a very good thing to know. > >Linda >-- Johannes, Linda et al, I haven't found a way to do what Johannes is asking about changing all regions of measure numbers in a piece at once, but it would have saved me a considerable amount of time in reworking hundreds of files if such a method (plug in or global control in Finale) existed. (As I change old files done in Petrucci to Maestro, the taller G clef bumps into my measure numbers as they are set for Petrucci, and I have to raise them to get them out of the way. This is not much of a problem when there's only one region; a macro can be programmed to do it, but if there is more than one region, you have to do it by hand.) Chuck -- Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham WA 98225-5836 (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] RE: orchestral MIDI
At 11:56 PM -0400 7/16/02, Christopher BJ Smith wrote: >At 2:21 PM -0500 7/16/02, Harold Steinhardt wrote: >> >>If an arranger or a composer does not know what it will sound like >>BEFORE notating it, then they do not know their art/craft very well. If >>they don't already know what it will sound like, how do they >>determine what to write in the first place? > > >Hmm, I don't think I am completely in agreement with that statement. >No less an authority than Bob Brookmeyer said (paraphrased) "I never >know exactly what one of my pieces will sound like. If I did, I >wouldn't bother writing it, cause what's the use if I already know? >I only know what it will sound like if I've already written >something pretty much like it already, and I'm not into repeating >myself." My compositions seem to me to be something like the script of a play. I need to proofread them with midi playback, (at least that is a helpful exercise), but until there is the interaction of my "instructions" with human players, their directed interaction with each other, the effect of the whole thing on listeners, and the feedback loop that comes from the musicians perceiving the effect on the listeners, it remains something like hearing a typewriter read a script. I never confuse it with music, nor do I depend on it for anything having to do with balance or color. I have no quarrel with those who do, and I'd probably go for some of that if I could control it more easily in a way that would resemble the eventual result reliably. But I just check pitch and rhythm (with a piano sound) and force my memory for real music to do the rest. If my pitch memory were more reliable, maybe I'd be able to forgo playback entirely, but the truth is I've become dependent on it ever since I started using Finale, and it's hard to conceive of going back to working without it. (I have limited keyboard skills.) That's my story, and I'm sticking with it (for the time being). Chuck -- Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham WA 98225-5836 (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Jazzfont falls
At 12:17 PM +0200 7/13/02, Johannes Gebauer wrote: >On 13.07.2002 6:46 Uhr, Chuck Israels wrote > >>> Chuck, >>> >>> You suggested the Newport font for falls (articulation). Which >>> character were you suggesting? The backslash? I can't find a curved >>> line in the set, like a thick arc drawn from 1 o'clock to 3 o'clock. >>> >>> Thanks >>> >>> Christopher >>> ___ >> >> >> Christopher, >> >> It's in my set. One goes from noon to 3 o'clock, another one (for >> scoops) goes from 6 o'clock to 3 o'clock. (But they are too skinny, >> and not very elegant.) > >I haven't tried it, but isn't there something for this kind of thing in >Fin2k3 smart shapes? >-- I'm waiting for FinMac 2k3. If there is something there that works, I'll gladly replace the Newport shapes. Chuck -- Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham WA 98225-5836 (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Jazzfont falls
At 5:31 PM -0400 7/12/02, Christopher BJ Smith wrote: >Chuck, > >You suggested the Newport font for falls (articulation). Which >character were you suggesting? The backslash? I can't find a curved >line in the set, like a thick arc drawn from 1 o'clock to 3 o'clock. > >Thanks > >Christopher >___ Christopher, It's in my set. One goes from noon to 3 o'clock, another one (for scoops) goes from 6 o'clock to 3 o'clock. (But they are too skinny, and not very elegant.) Chuck -- Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham WA 98225-5836 (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] metatool functioning [was fin vs sib scrapathon]
At 1:25 AM +0200 7/11/02, shirling & neueweise wrote: >From: "David W. Fenton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>In any event, quadrupling the number of metatool keys isn't exactly >>user- friendly, since how in the world could one keep track of so >>many different shortcuts? > >memory... and little pieces of paper taped to the monitor frame. > >on the subject of metatools, is there a way with more recent >versions [i am using 2001d] to define the functioning of metatools >so that when a measure-attached metatool is created, the staff list >dialogue pops up, instead of the expression being applied by default >to all staves? > >jef > >-- Jef, That's not exactly what happens. The expression gets applied to whatever staff list you last used, assuming you left the list dialog unchanged since the last application of a measure attached expression. I find this to be not too inconvenient most of the time. Chuck -- Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham WA 98225-5836 (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Jazz articulations
At 5:56 PM -0400 7/10/02, Christopher BJ Smith wrote: >At 2:38 PM -0700 7/10/02, Chuck Israels wrote: >>At 3:13 PM -0400 7/10/02, Christopher BJ Smith wrote: >>>I wish I had Articulation number 63, but rotated 90 degrees >>>counterclockwise, for a short jazz fall. The others are too long, >>>or are wavy, or are the wrong shape, like those ones that look >>>like eighth note flags. >>> >>>Christopher (smith, not zello) >> >>Many years ago (I'm showing my age, and my long association with >>Finale) there was an articulation font called Newport, which had >>these kinds of shapes. Somehow, after all these upgrades, I have >>kept this font in my files and still use it. It isn't perfect, and >>someone adept at using the shape designer could probably come up >>with better looking things, but the fall-off and upward scoop are >>OK. I often need them in my music, and the jazz font simply looks >>like bad hand copying to my eye (the quarter rest is the worst >>offender), so I continue to use these simple curved shapes. Is >>there a way to make them available to others who might find them >>useful? >> >>Chuck > > >Actually, that's already a help. I'll see if I can find Newport, and >check out the characters for these falls. And I agree about certain >Jazz Font characters, that they look too sloppy. I'm still looking >for a chord font I like. Chris, As I'm thinking about this, I'm beginning to envision the Newport shapes as looking better slightly smaller. I'm going to try them that way, and I'll let you know what I think. Please let me know if you find the font and how it looks to you. Chuck -- Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham WA 98225-5836 (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Jazz articulations
At 3:13 PM -0400 7/10/02, Christopher BJ Smith wrote: >I wish I had Articulation number 63, but rotated 90 degrees >counterclockwise, for a short jazz fall. The others are too long, or >are wavy, or are the wrong shape, like those ones that look like >eighth note flags. > >Christopher (smith, not zello) > > >At 11:25 AM -0500 7/10/02, Joel Sears wrote: >>Hi Chris, >> >>I think I'm looking at a default set up. My favorite scoops, in the >>Jazz Font, are in the Articulation selection boxes, 63, 64 and 68, >>your numbers may vary. There are thicker one nearby. >> >>Good luck, >> >>Joel >> >> >>At 09:32 AM 7/10/02, Christopher Zello wrote: >>>Where can I find a means of notating a pitch bend, or a jazz "scoop" upward >>>into a note? >>> Many years ago (I'm showing my age, and my long association with Finale) there was an articulation font called Newport, which had these kinds of shapes. Somehow, after all these upgrades, I have kept this font in my files and still use it. It isn't perfect, and someone adept at using the shape designer could probably come up with better looking things, but the fall-off and upward scoop are OK. I often need them in my music, and the jazz font simply looks like bad hand copying to my eye (the quarter rest is the worst offender), so I continue to use these simple curved shapes. Is there a way to make them available to others who might find them useful? Chuck -- Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham WA 98225-5836 (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] Fin 2k3
At 4:10 PM -0700 7/9/02, Lee Actor wrote: > > > I always start a new piece by altering an old one. Is there >> any to get the >> > new setting into an old file, even by manually editing the data file if >> > necessary? >> >> You have the default Multimeasure Rest definitions in the >> "Options/Document Options..." dialog (select the "Multimeasure Rests" >> page). These settings will be used next time mutlimeasure rests are >> created. >> >> If you want to change existing multimeasure rests, you can now use >> Forza!'s "Settings Transfer" component to do that automatically. Do like >> this: >> 1. Make sure your you have Forza! 0.16, beta 16 (I just added it to the >> forza-talk group's file space: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/forza-talk/ ) >> 2. Open all documents where you have multimeasure rests that need to >> be changed (you can open multiple documents in one go by using the >> Shift or Ctrl keys). >> 3. Have one extra "master" document open at the top where the default >> settings are correctly set for multimeasure rests. >> 4. When the master document is active, run Settings Transfer. Check >> "Multimeasure Rests" down in the list, select all the target documents on >> the right side (you can use the contextual menu for this), and >> also select >> the "Update existing Multimeasure rests to new defaults" option. >> 5. Press "Transfer" and all target document will now be changed to the >> new settings. > > >I don't see anything in the Multimeasure Rest dialog specifically for clef >collisions. Normally I manually edit multimeasure rests with clefs at the >end by changing the End Point to -50, but I don't want every multimeasure >rest to be shortened, just the ones with clefs at the end. Am I missing >something? > >-Lee > I don't think so, but adjusting each end so that you get a "balanced" look (50 is a little more than you need, 36 will probably do it in most instances), seems to be a good compromise. I rather like the way it looks not to have the bar extend so close to the end of the measure block. Chuck -- Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham WA 98225-5836 (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] Fin 2k3
Jari, Mac users? Will these become available for us? Chuck -- Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham WA 98225-5836 (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] System size for parts
Thank you both, Jari and Robert All is now clear. Chuck -- Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham WA 98225-5836 (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] System size for parts
I am experimenting with the changing settings for extracting parts (according to the advice of list gurus). I have always used a page reduction of 82% for letter size parts, with pretty good results. However, I understand the advantages of consistent text sizes for titles, headers, etc. that comes from leaving the page at 100%. Here's the question: If you change the setting for staff height (for example, from 96 evpus to 80 evpus) the dialog box shows a resulting staff reduction of 83% - pretty close to what I had with the whole page reductions. But - you can also enter a reduction number in the staff reduction box and leave the staff height setting alone, in which case, what do you get? What changes? Are both vertical and horizontal spacings changed (assuming "hold margins")? There seems to be the usual redundancy built in to Finale here. I don't mind. I'd just appreciate hearing from someone who understands just what each of these settings controls. TIA Chuck -- Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham WA 98225-5836 (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Tie end in second ending
At 3:42 PM -0400 7/5/02, Jon Delfin wrote: >"Mark D. Lew" wrote: > >> At 9:01 PM 07/05/02, Johannes Gebauer wrote: >> >Can someone remind me how to add a tie end to the first note of a second >> >ending (ie the it is only attached to the second ending note, not to the >> >last note of the first ending). >> >> Go to the Edit Frames dialog and click "Tie end" for that note. This works >> for both appearance and playback. >> >> On Mac, Edit Frames dialog is accessed by option-clicking the measure while >> in Speedy (but don't select the measure first). I assume it is something >> similar for Windows. > >Yup: ctrl-click. Mark, This is news to me. Thanks you. Chuck -- Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham WA 98225-5836 (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] OT mysterious computer wake up
To all who responded with the suggestion of checking the energy saver settings: Thanks - we've checked that, over and over, and it's something more mysterious. My student computer gurus, kids who've lived with these things all their lives, can't seem to figure it out either. Chuck -- Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham WA 98225-5836 (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Have a look: PC Dash 2 (in US P8000) from Saitek
At 3:22 PM -0400 6/26/02, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >In a message dated 6/26/02 2:01:08 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > ><< At 2:16 PM -0400 6/26/02, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >>I have this one and love it (and w/a programmed shift key, you get 116 button >>functions) - they have usb and ps-2 versions. >> > >http://www.xkeys.com/product/catalogframeset.htm > >Am I correct in assuming that the software that accompanies this >lovely little device will not accommodate the Mac OS? > >> > >No Chuck I am on a Mac. And I should correct an earlier post - with the shift >key it would only have 115 keys. They must have upped their price as I >remember paying around $54.00. The only software that it installs is a USB >extention that reads the self-programmed keystrokes (which are stored in the >device so it works the same when I plug it into my laptop.) John, I have been dreaming about something like this and wondering why no one had invented it. As usual, I am behind the technological curve, and here it is. I just ordered the 20 key one and hope I am not being penny wise and pound foolish (which is how I'll feel, if I quickly run out of keys - hard to tell at this point.) If you have advice on this and write back quickly, I can probably change the order. This should be so useful as to become quickly indispensable for running Finale/Quickkeys macros and the like. Thanks, Chuck -- Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham WA 98225-5836 (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Have a look: PC Dash 2 (in US P8000) from Saitek
At 2:16 PM -0400 6/26/02, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >I have this one and love it (and w/a programmed shift key, you get 116 button >functions) - they have usb and ps-2 versions. > >http://www.xkeys.com/product/catalogframeset.htm Am I correct in assuming that the software that accompanies this lovely little device will not accommodate the Mac OS? Chuck -- Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham WA 98225-5836 (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Have a look: PC Dash 2 (in US P8000) from Saitek
At 11:37 AM +0200 6/26/02, Jörg Peltzer wrote: >Hello listers, > >I found a great Enhancement of my work in this little Keyboardlike piece >of USB Hardware. >Fully programmable 30 Keys. I have had this one since one year but >couldn't use it, because there was no Win XP/2000 driver available. >After doing some arranging work with it, i couldn't resist telling you. > >www.saitek.com > Jorg - I looked on this site (the U.S. version) and saw nothing that fits this intriguing description. I'll go back and take a look at the German site. Perhaps this is only on that one. Chuck -- Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham WA 98225-5836 (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT LONG: help with adult student
At 11:27 AM -0400 6/23/02, Christopher BJ Smith wrote: >At 5:20 PM -0500 6/22/02, John Howell wrote: >> >> >>Irving Berlin not only survived but flourished not being able to read or >>write a note of music. He could play what he wanted (supposedly only in >>the key of F#, and I guess the pianos rigged with movable keyboards to let >>him do this are right there in the Smithsonian), and he hired musical >>secretaries to take down his songs and put them into notation. > > >I've heard that account from many different sources, and I find it >hard to beleive that Berlin's assistants were only taking down >musical dictation. Berlin's harmonic sense was (by all other reports >of people who heard him play his own songs, like Alec Wilder!) quite >limited, and the harmonies of his tunes are quite sophisticated at >times, to which I think the credit should go to his assistants. > >Like Linda, I have often been in the position of arranging a melody >that some client has played to me using I, IV, and V chords, and >making it quite lush using my own harmonies, to his delight. I >suspect that Berlin's relationship with his assistants was similar. > >Because of the way copyright laws are set up, the person who worked >out those beautiful chords to all those Berlin tunes doesn't get a >penny of royalties, as only lyrics and melodies are copyrightable. >Yet, IMHO, those songs might not have been the successes that they >were without the contribution of the assistant, so wouldn't they be >due a bit of spare change? > >Christopher >___ To my way of thinking yes, but the laws deem otherwise. It's Sunday, and Margot is away visiting her mother, so I feel like ranting a little. Disinterested parties are welcome to delete the following at will. My mother used to ask me, "Is that a composition of yours or 'only' an arrangement?" My response was, "My compositions are my natural born children, my arrangements my adopted kids. I lavish love on them all." To her credit, she got the point. Still, for me, it is not easy to feel the confidence and strength required to come up with newly formed projects all the time, and my energy often needs a less demanding outlet. Making a personal version of someone else's work, work that sometimes seems a little unfinished to me, can be a rewarding diversion, and it does nothing to diminish my respect for the basic structure of the piece on which I am focusing this attention. If I spend enough energy on a particularly fruitful arrangement, sometimes a work emerges which seems to stand on its own. Nevertheless, it couldn't have happened without the original thing to inspire it - and there eventually gets to be a delicately balanced question of proportion in terms of "credit." How important is harmony, for instance? To me, Bill Evans' application of chordal counterpoint to the bridges of "In a Sentimental Mood" and "Lover Man" (both of them, stunning), or the whole of Arlen's "Come Rain or Come Shine" has become inseparable from the way I remember those songs in my head. But most listeners are less affected by this and recognize and appreciate the songs even when they are performed with bizarre harmony (in ignorant versions). As one who has learned to respond to harmonic nuance and become fascinated by it, this is a confusing and frustrating phenomenon. On the one hand, the harmony re-makes the song on a deep level (to my ears). On the other hand, the process of coming up with a telling re-harmonization is more like figuring out a crossword puzzle than writing a poem - not exactly, of course, but something like that. The general listener hears no important differences, and the true "credit" goes to the tunesmith. Part of me understands that, another part thinks that the originators of the plots of Shakespeare's plays did not write those plays. Porgy and Bess is monumental. Miles Davis/Gil Evans Porgy and Bess is sensational and inconceivable without Gershwin. I love them both, but must admit to being especially attracted to Miles and Gil. What does that mean? They have translated a great work into an idiom that speaks more personally to me? A famous pop songwriter/singer was a student of mine for a short time - a gifted one who learned at an amazing rate. His work changed a little as he absorbed information he needed to make his work be more interesting and move forward when it got stuck, but it wasn't mine, so I politely sidestepped his elliptical (and kind hearted) suggestion that I might be due "points" on the resulting album. I never could figure out how to make real money out of music. OK - enough. Cheers, Chuck -- Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham WA 98225-5836 (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT LONG: help with adult student
At 2:46 PM -0700 6/22/02, Linda Worsley wrote: >At 11:19 AM -0700 6/22/02, Chuck Israels wrote: > >For learning harmony and voice leading in the 21st Century (and >according to your description of this man's music), I would assume >the seventh chord as the basic unit rather than the triad. The >advantage of this, besides the fact that it would seem to suit much >of the material you describe, is that voice leading tendencies fall >into easily described and predictable patterns. > >This is a guide I have written for my arranging/composing students. > >First step: > >Include root, 3rd and 7th. >Omit 5ths, 9ths, 11ths and 13ths. >Keep the root on the bottom. > >[etc.] > >Great, great post, Chuck. I'm archiving and saving it. Terrific! > >Maybe a year from now I can use it with this student. For now, he >doesn't know what a triad is. Doesn't know what a "root" is. (I've >used all these terms and described them, but because he started in >the middle and has tried to learn in all directions since, it >doesn't "stick" and he doesn't really "get it." I have to start >from the BEGINNING, and somehow convince him to slog through all the >basics, performing enough exercises and samples that he and I are >both sure that he has it in his bone marrow. Then we can start with >the kinds of things you described. > >On the other hand, he's very fast. Maybe we'll get there by Christmas. > >Thanks again for a terrific post. You're most welcome. Assuming things are as you describe them, and this person is really not familiar with how harmony comes about, perhaps a demonstration of how chords come from the physical attributes of vibrating bodies in the harmonic series would indicate to him how roots, thirds, and fifths are related. 7th grade science class was a revelation to me in this respect, and I still remember the teacher. Chuck -- Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham WA 98225-5836 (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT LONG: help with adult student
Title: Re: [Finale] OT LONG: help with adult student Dear Linda, This is at the same time, a fascinating and difficult puzzle, and it will probably require constant adjustment. I have a few suggestions: For learning harmony and voice leading in the 21st Century (and according to your description of this man's music), I would assume the seventh chord as the basic unit rather than the triad. The advantage of this, besides the fact that it would seem to suit much of the material you describe, is that voice leading tendencies fall into easily described and predictable patterns. This is a guide I have written for my arranging/composing students. First step: Include root, 3rd and 7th. Omit 5ths, 9ths, 11ths and 13ths. Keep the root on the bottom. Keep the 3rds and 7ths above D, third line, bass clef. Keep the lower note (of the 3rds and 7ths) within the octave below D above middle C. When the root is in the melody, substitute the 6th for the Maj. 7th. Tonic minor chords may sometimes appear as triads (1,3,5 or 1,5,3). Voice Leading Rules: When the roots move by 4th or 5th (including aug. 4th/dim. 5th), the 3rd moves to the 7th and the 7th moves to the 3rd. When the roots move by step, all voices move by step in the same direction (parallel). When the roots move by 3rds, parallel motion is most common but switching voices is acceptable and sometimes useful in order to re-align the voicing. When it becomes necessary to switch voicings in order to avoid range problems, it must be done within the duration of one chord. Ignoring these rules will result in awkward and unattractive voice leading. Rootless 3 Note Voicings: Include 3rd, 7th and one extra pitch selected from: root, 9th, 5th or 13th. Avoid minor 2nds between top two voices. (e.g. In ascending order, redistribute 3rd, 13th, flat 7 to; flat 7, 3rd, 13th or; 13th, flat 7, 3rd.) Keep the lowest note above D, third line, bass clef and the highest note preferably below A above middle C. (F would be an even better upper limit.) This register is most effective for the majority of orchestration possibilities. When the roots move by 4th or 5th (including aug. 4th/dim. 5th); roots and 9ths lead to 5ths and 13ths; 5ths and 13ths lead to roots and 9ths. All other voice leading rules apply. 4 note voicings are created by adding omitted pitches from the previous list (adding 11 in minor chords or #11 in major or dominant chords as an option) over, under, or between existing voices. Maintain voice leading. All of this is pretty easy to understand after using it for a while, but it completely leaves out the issues that the classical, Roman numeral, system makes clear - what key (of the moment) are you in, and how far you are from the eventual real cadence of the phrase. So I insist on teaching both nomenclatures simultaneously. Each is useful for different reasons, and locating a harmonic "point" with two coordinates increases the likelihood of understanding. Of course, this system cannot possibly include all possibilities, though I find that it does a pretty good job of getting students to understand what they are hearing (and doing) in the language of 20th Century American popular music. Mark Levine has written some very clear books about this kind of thing (Sher Music) which, unlike Bill Dobbins' otherwise good books, have the advantage of not including a confusing encyclopaedic listing of every possible combination and permutation. Mark's books are organized by concentrating on the most often used techniques. On the rhythm side, I always try to have my students write down something they might say, in its normal timing and inflection, in musical notation. I have never had much success with this, so I don't know why I continue to try it. They never even get close, but it is an exercise which has been useful to me in generating idiomatic, jazzy, rhythms which are varied, memorable, and comfortable in their relation to the speech rhythms we hear every day. Sometimes I suggest that students take a typically approximately notated lead sheet of a standard song and adjust the rhythms so that the timing of the lyric makes emotional sense, the way a great singer might time the words. I continue to maintain that there's something to be gained by this exercise, and it does expose the budding musician to the fact that the music of emotionally sensible American English is full of quarter note triplets. Anyway, these are some things I might try. I'd be glad to have you keep me posted of your successes and failures in communicating the principles and details of our musical language to this student. I hope there is something helpful in this. Best of luck. Chuck -- Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham WA 98225-5836 (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Finale] File formats - security anyone?
> > >I suspect this whole issue is like the Mac vs. windows or Open source >vs. Microsoft, etc. You're either on one side or the other and no >matter what side you're on, the other side seems blind. - I don't know about that, James. I'm just trying to figure this out, as many are, and trying to take advantage of the progress of the world's delivery systems. Chuck -- Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham WA 98225-5836 (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] TAN: String fingerings in Pops work?
At 6:01 PM -0400 6/13/02, Darcy James Argue wrote: >Hi all, > >I have recently been commissioned to write some arrangements for a >group which will be performing with various Pops orchestras, and we >are in the process of hammering out the details of the contract. >One sticking point seems to be the issue of bowings and *fingerings* >for the strings -- the contractor seems to think it is necessary to >take money out of the budget (money that would otherwise go to me) >to hire someone to put bowings and string fingerings on the string >parts. I think I can probably convince him that I am perfectly >capable of putting in the bowings myself (knowing full well that no >matter _who_ does the bowings they will most likely be totally >ignored and the various concertmasters will put in their own >bowings). But the fingerings thing strikes me as completely >bizarre. I have never heard of anyone putting fingerings into >orchestral string parts -- in fact it strikes me that string players >would likely be insulted by this. The contractor tells me this is >actually standard procedure for Pops work -- rehearsal time is so >limited that fingerings need to be specified in the parts. I have a >hard time believing this. Has anyone out there ever heard of this? > >- Darcy > >- >[EMAIL PROTECTED] >Boston MA Dear Darcy, This seems as bizarre to me as it does to you. I have never included fingerings in any string parts. This is in the purview of the individual players or the section leaders. Bowings are a slightly different issue. Yes, they are almost always changed, but they serve a useful purpose in indicating phrasing, (and I sometimes get them right). Chuck -- Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham WA 98225-5836 (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale 2003 and Mac OSX
At 6:36 PM +0200 6/6/02, Johannes Gebauer wrote: >On 06.06.2002 17:27 Uhr, Alan Smith wrote > >> Dear List, >> >> (I have just re-subscribed after a couple of months' absence, so please >> excuse me if this one has already been discussed.) >> >> When may we expect to see Finale for Mac OSX? Finale 2002 is about the >> only program I still use in Classic mode, and it would be good to go >> native, so to speak. > >You are not the only one waiting for an OS X release of Finale, but I don't >think anyone on this list can do more than guess... > >Johannes >-- I have been following the discussion of this subject (dear to my heart, as I wait with the rest of you) with some disappointment. I was told by a Coda person that the plan was ( I hope I am not breaking a confidence) that Finmac 2003 would be "Carbonized" and that a free update to 2003 buyers which would be fully OSX native would appear later in the year. Since I don't know exactly what "Carbonized" means (Does that simply mean that it has the fancy new graphic look?), I'm not sure if Coda is sticking to its plan or not. OS upgrades have been traumatic for me. When I change systems, all kinds of things that used to work don't, and it takes a couple of weeks, and several visits from my student Mac guru, to get everything working. It's been worth it for 9.0.2 - it's pretty stable, but there is still the occasional, and unpredictable, crash. I'd like to move to OSX for its stability, (and a new look is fun for a while). Most of the few other programs that I use are OSX ready. The question I have is: when running 2003 under OSX, is "Classic Mode" automatically turned on in the background when opening Finale, or must one select it. And, will there be likely to be a significant degradation of performance while in "Classic Mode" (compared to operating in 9.0.2) on a 400 Mhz G4 w/512 mb of RAM. If we simply asked Coda to answer those questions that cannot be answered by the informed people on the list, might they respond? It might be worth a try. Chuck -- Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham WA 98225-5836 (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Terminology question
At 3:29 AM +0100 6/6/02, John Bell wrote: >>At 07:14 pm -0700 05.06.2002, Carl Dershem wrote: >>>In the late 60s there was a TV show in the UK called That Was The >>>Week That Was -- a satirical review of the week's news. >> >> >>Heh. It sounds like the US show from the late 50's and early 60's >>with the same title. Ours had Sid Caesar as the MC, and occasional >>songs by Tom Lehrer. > >I didn't know about that. Our show was thought of as daring and >original and ground-breaking. Apparently not. > >John I am old enough to think that I remember that the British show was the model for the US one. Chuck -- Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham WA 98225-5836 (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: conveying musical meaning
At 6:18 PM -0800 6/5/02, Mark D. Lew wrote: >[answering Paul Delcour] >>>Apart from this: adding lyrics to existing music is much harder than >>>the other way round. > >At 3:31 PM 06/05/02, Chuck Israels wrote: > >>This seems usually true to me, but there's a remarkable exception - >>Jon Hendricks' enormous output of brilliant lyrics written to >>existing jazz tunes [...] > >Not necessarily an exception. Just because Hendricks did it and did it >well doesn't mean that it wasn't a difficult task. > >mdl > Oh man, difficult and then some! I think that Ira Gershwin sometimes worked this way with George's music too, and the results are pretty uniformly great, no matter what the order of creation. Chuck -- Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham WA 98225-5836 (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Terminology question
At 5:30 PM -0500 6/5/02, Joel Sears wrote: >Yes, of course, you're right. Being a Jazzer, I was assuming above >the note, I shouldn't have. > >BTW, does any one know how to set articulations and slurs to always >go above the notes. > Sure Joel, Go into the editing dialog for the articulation in question (I use Engraver font for this particular one - you can specify the font in that dialog box, and Engraver looks much better than Maestro to my eye for this shape) and you'll find a place to specify the placement; above note, below note, stem side, note side. To get to that dialog, double click on the articulation's handle. The problem is, that when this shape is above a note with an up stem , people who do it by hand place it so that it straddles the stem (where it looks right). This requires a displacement to the right of a few evpus. There is probably a way to copy the articulation, set its placement over and then assign it to another macro key. It can be made to work the way you want with a little time and effort. Then you can save it to a library or to a template and it's always there. Chuck -- Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham WA 98225-5836 (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: conveying musical meaning
At 11:59 PM +0200 6/5/02, Paul Delcour wrote: >That may be the case, but as a conductor it is impossible to learn a >choir a piece without knowing something of the intention of the >piece which comes both from the words and the choral sound. Teach a >choir a piece in a language they have no clue what ever it means and >they will be lost, be it not all the way of course, since the music >has some meaning and therefore gives guidance. But add the meaning >of the words and away they go. At least my choirs do so. > >Apart from this: adding lyrics to existing music is much harder than >the other way round. And it shows, I mean hears. O well, you know >what I mean. > >:-) > >Paul Delcour This seems usually true to me, but there's a remarkable exception - Jon Hendricks' enormous output of brilliant lyrics written to existing jazz tunes, and even more remarkably, to scores of difficult jazz solos. They are often hard to understand at speed, but they are nonetheless brilliant, and wonderfully suited to the music onto which they are grafted. The guy has created (nearly single handedly, though there are a few good examples that precede Jon's work) a new genre of vocal music. If you get a chance to hear any of this, it is intelligent, witty, philosophically interesting an rhythmically connected to the way Americans speak. Lots of fun. Chuck > >Finale mailing list >[EMAIL PROTECTED] >http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale -- Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham WA 98225-5836 (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: Pachelbel's canon
At 10:40 PM +1000 6/5/02, Kenneth Kuhlmann wrote: > > From: "Chuck Israels" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> >> The three most important things in music are: rhythm, rhythm, and >> rhythm, in that order. >> > >Chuck: >Surely rhythm, melody and harmony are the eternal musical trinity >- allowing, of course, that the relative importance of each element >may vary between cultures? > >Is your emphasis on rhythm an over-compensation for the >relative rhythmic poverty of much of the popular canon of European >art music - cf. the Indian or African traditions or even the Eastern >Mediterannean, for instance? > Dear Kenneth, Of course, statements like this are flippant and open to criticism for being superficial, but it has been my experience that if the timing's wrong, nothing you can do with the other elements will fix the problem - something like that. (And good rhythm will help to forgive shortcomings in melody and harmony.) At least it seems to work that way in my own listening and composing experience. Chuck -- Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham WA 98225-5836 (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: Pachelbel's canon
At 11:34 PM -0400 6/3/02, Christopher BJ Smith wrote: >At 4:03 PM -0700 6/03/02, Philip Aker wrote: >>David Froom: >> >>>And my answer for him was to relate the Pachelbel to the standard >>>sequential harmonic pattern generated from descending 10ths (or, >>>if you insist, 3rds). >> >>I don't disagree entirely but this is a different beastie than the >>root movements in the music. For instance, dance forms (i.e. Bach >>suites & partitas) can be condensed to: I, V->I. Applying >>sequential analysis again to your first pass, one could reduce it >>to I-IV. Which fits the bill to a tee for an analysis because then >>one doesn't have to special case the last of the four-measure >>phrase. If one pedals I, vi, IV, IV as the roots in the 4 measure >>phrase as you suggest then the essence of the piece is lost. That's >>because the descending fourths, being the stronger interval, trump >>the descending thirds. As Hal mentioned in his post, these are >>points of "cadential repose". I don't think one can have a correct >>analysis without taking this sub-phrase notion into account and >>further that the strongest statement is actually the >>chord->chord-a-fourth-below continuity. Which is to say it's >>essentially plagal. >> >>Philip Aker > > >I guess I am more of a Schenkerian than is fashionable these days >(like many jazzers), but in my ears, metre trumps everything - thus >the difference between an ornamental V-I where the V is stressed, >and a structural cadence, where the I is stressed. Does the stress >of the chords in the progression count for nothing, then, in your >analysis? > >Christopher I have mixed feelings about the analysis of this Pachelbel progression. In some ways it doesn't matter to me. There are some weak musical statements that have a certain appeal in that they allow the listener to "imprint" a reaction to what amounts to a kind of blank slate. (New Age anyone? -"I'm too old for new age and too young for old age, so what's a guy supposed to do?" - Jimmy Ferguson.) Jerzy Kosinski wrote a book about this kind of thing being applied to a politician, "Being There," (which was made into a rather weak movie). Anyway, I'm not sure about this and don't want to get into much discussion about a piece which is simply more irritating to me than anything else. However, you can quote me on this "stress" issue. The three most important things in music are: rhythm, rhythm, and rhythm, in that order. Chuck -- Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham WA 98225-5836 (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] TAN - Help with class curricula
Title: Re: [Finale] TAN - Help with class curricula At 9:40 AM -0500 5/24/02, Doug Auwarter wrote: on 5/23/02 4:01 PM, Christopher BJ Smith at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: www.jazzinstituteofchicago.org/jazzgram/ commentary/kenburns/contents.asp I just tried to access this to no avail. ??? Doug Doug & other interested parties: If this URL is troublesome, you can just go to jazzinstituteofchicago.org site and look for my response to the Burns series. It does seem a little strange to be thinking about this so long after the fact, but the power of such a TV event to create a monumentally skewed version of a history, a large part of which I experienced first hand, is still disturbing. I had long ago dropped this from my consciousness, and only Jamin's request made me think of it again. Chuck -- Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham WA 98225-5836 (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Finale] TAN - Help with class curricula
Title: Re: [Finale] TAN - Help with class curricula Dear Jamin: This article may prove interesting and useful. www.jazzinstituteofchicago.org/jazzgram/ commentary/kenburns/contents.asp Chuck -- Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham WA 98225-5836 (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Finale] Plea for help TAN
At 8:34 PM -0400 5/21/02, David H. Bailey wrote: >Looks to me more like a Bbm7add4 in first inversion. > Dear David, It may look like that to you; I don't dispute that. But to musicians who are conversant with mid to late 20th Century American popular music and jazz conventions, this is unquestionably recognized as a 69 chord. Calling it something else (for the community described above) is less descriptive. Chuck >___ >Finale mailing list >[EMAIL PROTECTED] >http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale -- Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham WA 98225-5836 (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale Porn
At 9:07 AM +1000 5/20/02, helgesen wrote: >Once again I received a 'soft porn' e-mail, clearly marked [Finale]. This >one advertising a sex-chat room. In the recipients column was a whole heap >of addresses, all starting with "Fin..." e.g. Finishing touch (dry >cleaners?), Fingerstall, (manicurists?) etc so I suspect that someone has >got hold of a huge address list and is sending random porn adverts to blocks >of the list. Nobody else has mentioned this, which worries me a bit. No, >it's not my scene so I don't know how I qualify. Just lucky(?) I guess! >Anyone else getting this? Or are we too embarrassed to admit it? >Regards, Keith in OZ. > >___ >Finale mailing list >[EMAIL PROTECTED] >http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale I got this too - annoying. I do feel invaded by this, but am at a loss as to how to prevent it. Chuck -- Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham WA 98225-5836 (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] TAN: Mac OS question
At 11:39 PM +0200 5/18/02, Johannes Gebauer wrote: >On 18.05.2002 20:20 Uhr, Doug Auwarter wrote > >> I should think OS 9 should be sufficiently >> responsive on a 300Mhz G3, but have plenty of RAM--at *least* 128 megs. > >Better more, and switch off Virtual Memory. I have 192 MB and since I >switched off VM I am happier than ever before. > >Johannes I have always been thus advised, and have always done so. So, just out of curiosity, what does virtual memory do, and why would one ever want it switched on, since all I ever hear is "switch it off?" No need for a voluminous answer. This is just a query so that I might better understand how the Mac works. Also, is there virtual memory in OS - X? Chuck -- Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham WA 98225-5836 (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] small bug & work-around
FYI This sent to Coda: Create a score (in 2002 latest), set pickup as one quarter note, enter the pickups in one part as an eighth note triplet figure (with three triplet eighths), extract that part. Finale thinks that the quarter note pickup measure should contain 2 eighths, and does not understand the tuplet assignment in that measure, and it leaves out the first note of the triplet. I'm sure that the work-around would be to select a dotted quarter pickup, and that'd be likely to work without a hitch, but someone should take note of this. Chuck -- Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham WA 98225-5836 (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale's Defaults
At 10:47 AM -0700 5/9/02, Philip Aker wrote: >I've already sent over my request for Finale Macintosh Defaults not >to come setup with alien fonts like Ariel and Times New Roman. > >WRT to page reductions though, I've used page reduction with fixed >size page text blocks for years. I've always used page reduction and haven't found it to be a problem. Maybe there's something I've been missing, some adjustments that I'm making that would be unnecessary if I used system reduction, but I'm quite used to this. Most parts are at 82% (smaller than that gets a little hard for old eyes, like mine, to read). Sometimes, if the page is particularly sparse, I will use 85%. I have noticed that changing form 82 to 85 requires some system margin adjustment, often finnicky and annoying, but I have accepted this as part of the deal. Am I doing more fussing than I need to be doing? I have also gotten used to the resulting sizes when the text blocks and measure expressions are not fixed. Again, maybe I should explore the methods suggested here. My working habits have become so ingrained that even things that I learn on the list that indicate the possibility of improvement in the results of my "engraving" sometimes take me a while to implement. I must be getting old. >Probably for the same reasons as jef. While copyists tend to work >with the idea of page size being fixed, Finale also enables one to >work with a "flow" method where the page sizes may be changeable. >When using a flow method, if you don't have a fixed type size for >publication details (i.e. page text blocks) then in some cases, they >may be reduced to 4 or 5 points and not be legible. > >Also, I personally haven't had a problem with text block placement >using page reduction since I started putting page text blocks (i.e. >headers and footers) OUTSIDE the margins. 'Nother thing is that I >get better results with staff spacing. H. That's an interesting idea. Chuck -- Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham WA 98225-5836 (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Getting no messages
At 10:18 PM -0400 5/5/02, Crystal Premo wrote: >I've seen traffic on this list dip drastically on the weekend, but >it has been two days since I've seen anything at all. Did something >happen? > >Anyway, does anyone have practical experience with using Hyperscribe >to input music intended for playback? I do not think this is the >way to do it, but I have been posed this question: if a superior >pianist plays a good piano arrangement of a Broadway tune using >Hyperscribe, will a) Finale record all the fine nuances of his >performance and 2)there be a useful file for printing out? I say >not, that there would be too much cleaning up to do for the file to >be useful. I suppose I could just try this, bring in a good pianist >and try it out, but I think it is a waste of money and time. What >say you? > >Crystal Premo > Dear Crystal, I too, have wondered where everyone has gone, and I was beginning to think that something had happened. Nevertheless, your message got through to me. About Hyperscribe, my sense is that it would be far, far, more trouble than step time speedy entry with a midi keyboard. Others may have another opinion. Chuck -- Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham WA 98225-5836 (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale's Defaults
At 12:51 PM -0500 5/1/02, Don Hart wrote: >on 5/1/02 11:51 AM, John Howell at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >> And no, that isn't the only reason my department head is considering >> switching, although it's the proximate one. Too many students are making >> too many complaints about not being able to figure out how to use Finale. >> That's a fairly basic problem. >> >> John > > >I would be curious to know how other university music departments (I think >we have a few other representatives that participate on this list) handle >the learning curve in Finale. Does everyone else view it being as daunting >a process as John and Va. Tech do? I have no accurate concept of how >difficult that curve really is because I've used the program since version >1.0. I was up and running (including learning the Mac) with speedy note >midi entry in about a week, but the ability to configure a layout took quite >a while to learn (and in certain situations can still be a challenge). I'd >say it's apples and oranges anyway, as different as the program is now. > >Here in Nashville, Blair School of Music (Vanderbilt) makes both Sibelius >and Finale available in a composer's lab. The music business program at >Belmont University offers a course (at least it used to) on how to use >Finale. In these two departments, I don't as yet believe it has come down >to choosing one program over the other. > >Don Hart Here at western Washington University there is no department policy. Both programs are available, and my impression is that many students choose Finale. They learn it remarkably quickly, on a superficial level. However, everyone of them stops far short of what I consider to be minimally acceptable in terms of layout and general readability. That's the problem inherent in the use of software to do what used to be done by hand. I still think that the software is, overall, a great help to me personally. Chuck -- Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham WA 98225-5836 (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale's Defaults
Hi Allen, This is just to add a voice to what Phil Shaw wrote below. After the fact global style changes which could be applied to existing files would be a great boon. Chuck At 10:41 AM -0700 5/1/02, Phil Shaw wrote: >Hi Allen, > >Your request for suggestions on defaults gives me a chance >to hop on a soap box for my main wish-list item. > >You seem to be thinking in terms of improving the >hard-wired defaults. What I'd like is a "style" >mechanism that lets a user develop a set of defaults. > >You probably just said "we've got that with templates". >No. What I mean by a "style" mechanism is one that >lets you specify a style after-the-fact. Something >like the "Cascading Style Sheets" or XSLT in HTML. > >E.g. I've got a library of over a hundred songs in >Finale, and every so often I think up a way to make them >more readable. E.g. I recently switched to Jazz Font, >and that was a multi-week painful process. With a >style mechanism it should take an hour or two to >develop and test the new style, then an over-nite >run to apply it to 100 files. Another example, >I recently realized I should leave wider margins >on the right, for two-sided printing (and 3-hole >punches). > >I would think that after-the-fact style changes >would be a common need. I'm currently dealing with >a publisher who has all sorts of requests for character >fonts, spacing, etc, that will be a big hassle to >do a document-at-a-time. > >Warning: this is the sort of mechanism that >programmers will commonly say "can't be done", >but in fact turns out not to be a big deal. > >Thanks for asking, > >Phil Shaw - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://okshaw.com >___ >Finale mailing list >[EMAIL PROTECTED] >http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale -- Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham WA 98225-5836 (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Cue note problem (Tgtools?)
At 10:44 PM +0200 4/25/02, Jörg Peltzer wrote: >Hello again, > >I need to setup cue notes in an instrument part from a vocal score >(using Tgtools). >The cue notes are starting one bar before the instrument plays and >lyrics are included. >The problem comes up when the last word in the lyrics is hyphenated, i >get endless hyphens in the part. > >I tried the following with no solution: >- on deleting the word with the hyphen and substituting it with a >nonhyphenated syllable, the main part is also altered >- when cueing one bar more unless there is no hyphen at the end of the >bar and then hiding the superfluous syllables, the text stays inside the >cue notes, no chance to hide it. > >Do i have to set up a new verse for that? And assign the text to the >notes manually from scratch ? >This seems to be too far away for me... > >Any ideas? > >Thanks > Jörg > >-- >*** Alt F4 und der Tag gehört dir ! *** >-- Dear Jorg, I have no particular experience in this, but I do understand how the lyric tool functions to alter the main part when you try to modify the cue part. I would try setting up another "scratch" staff (to be deleted later) to which I'd copy the necessary part to be made into cues, type in a new set of lyrics without the offending syllable to that staff and use that for the cues. If there's not a lot of this to be done, it wouldn't be too tedious, and I think it should solve the problem. Maybe someone else will answer with a more efficient way to deal with the situation, but this seems worth a try. Chuck -- Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham WA 98225-5836 (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Single pitch rhythm cues
Hi, Anybody know how to use the single pitch plug in to create a rhythmic cue line on a drum part (in the space above the staff where a G would be in the treble clef). I'd like to be able to use the Mass Mover to pick up rhythms from other ensemble parts and copy them to the drum part where they would be reduced to one pitch. I tried to use the plug in without success. Ideas? What might I be missing? Thanks, Chuck -- Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham WA 98225-5836 (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
