Re: [Finale] Re: Where's the Default Document?

2010-10-04 Thread Eric Fiedler
Thanks to all who helped me out with this one. But: although David F. has made 
a plausible case for the Finale File to be both in the general _and_ in the 
user "App Support" folder, it seems to me to be the kind of information that 
FinMac users should be told about, just in case they're brave enough to try to 
change something (again: no mention that I can find in the Help Files). And: 
didn't it used to be asking for trouble to have multiple copies of fonts on the 
same partition?
Eric

Habsburger Verlag Frankfurt (Dr. Fiedler)
www.habsburgerverlag.de
eric.f.fied...@t-online.de
e.fied...@em.uni-frankfurt.de





___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale


RE: [Finale] Where's the Default Document?

2010-10-04 Thread Phillips, Justin
Hi all,

We did make a change to Finale 2011's file structure to conform to Apple's and 
Windows' suggested locations, which are stored both in global and user 
locations.

More information can be found in our Knowledge Base and User Manual:

http://makemusic.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/4071/

http://www.finalemusic.com/UserManuals/Finale2011Win/Content/Finale/FinaleInstallationDetails.htm

http://www.finalemusic.com/UserManuals/Finale2011Mac/Content/Finale/FinaleInstallationDetails.htm


Justin Phillips
Notation Product Specialist
MakeMusic, Inc.



-Original Message-
From: finale-boun...@shsu.edu [mailto:finale-boun...@shsu.edu] On Behalf Of 
Eric Dannewitz
Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2010 1:09 PM
To: finale@shsu.edu
Subject: Re: [Finale] Where's the Default Document?

Nope. And it seems really silly that they have EXACTLY THE SAME FOLDER in the 
Mac HD/Library as they do in the ~/Username/Library

In fact, we have the same folders for Audio Units Support, Configuration Files, 
FinaleScript, Font Annotations, Libraries, Midi Device Annotations, and Music 
Files.

Actually, I take that back. It's STUPID to have it in two places.but then 
again this is MakeMusic we are talking about..so...


On Oct 3, 2010, at 11:04 AM, Eric Fiedler wrote:

> And I thought I had found _all_ the files in the _general_ "App Support"...
> Thanks Eric!
> The other Eric


___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale


[Finale] [OT] pression (lachenmann) - cellists in berlin?

2010-10-04 Thread SN jef chippewa


does anyone on this list fit the criteria of being a cellist and 
living in berlin (or leipzig)?


would like to meet to get your feedback on my version of the new 
edition i am preparing for breitkopf.  i am particularly interested 
in people who are familiar with the score (and lachenmann's work) but 
also interested in hearing what someone who is unfamiliar with 
pression / lachenmann has to say.


contact me off list by email or:
+49 (0) 30 4202 0091 / +49 (0) 173 440 8847 (mob.)

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale


Re: [Finale] Re: Where's the Default Document?

2010-10-04 Thread David W. Fenton
On 4 Oct 2010 at 12:39, Eric Fiedler wrote:

> although David F. has
> made a plausible case for the Finale File to be both in the general
> _and_ in the user "App Support" folder, it seems to me to be the kind
> of information that FinMac users should be told about, just in case
> they're brave enough to try to change something (again: no mention
> that I can find in the Help Files).

It's not a Finale issue. It's an OS issue. If you know how your OS 
works, this would be something you know. If you don't know that, it's 
something you shouldn't even be worrying about.

-- 
David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com
David Fenton Associates   http://dfenton.com/DFA/

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale


Re: [Finale] Re: Where's the Default Document?

2010-10-04 Thread Michael Greensill

<>

Well I can assure that I know nothing about the OS. But access to the  
default document of Finale is very important.


Mike G.

www.mikegreensill.com




___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale


Re: [Finale] Re: Where's the Default Document?

2010-10-04 Thread David W. Fenton
On 4 Oct 2010 at 8:59, Michael Greensill wrote:

> < works, this would be something you know. If you don't know that, it's
> something you shouldn't even be worrying about.>> 
> 
> Well I can assure that I know nothing about the OS. But access to the
> default document of Finale is very important. 

And what's the issue? The one in the user profile is the one you 
should be concerned with, not the ones stored in the application 
folder (unless you want to force all other users to use an altered 
version of the default document).

Indeed, in general, the ones stored in the application folder likely 
are read-only (without elevating privileges, which depending on your 
OS, you may be prompted for automatically, or not).


-- 
David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com
David Fenton Associates   http://dfenton.com/DFA/

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale


Re: [Finale] Re: Where's the Default Document?

2010-10-04 Thread Eric Dannewitz
Couple of problems with you "proclamation" there..

Lets look at Microsoft Office 11 shall we. What does it do with it's files on 
the Mac OS side?

In /Users/MYUSERNAME/Library/Application Support/Microsoft/Office I have a User 
Templates folder which I assume that would be for me saving and modifying my 
settings and such. 

In Mac HD/Library/Applications Support/Microsoft  I have NO Office folder. No 
"global templates". Nada. I have some misc folders, but nothing that is a 
direct duplicate of what was in the user library App Support folder. I would 
imagine that the Word program creates the folder for a new user when they run 
it for the first time, but it certainly does not seem to be stored in the 
Global/Main Library on the root hard drive. 

So...I could list some more, but I see no other Mac program that out right 
stores pretty much the same stuff in TWO locations. Not even Digidesign/Avid 
ProTools.which is notorious for not doing stuff according to the rules. 

While Justin's (from MakeMusic) answer seem to make sense (really? Permission 
problems?), I think it leads to a lot of problems. Like when I was setting up 
Finale 2011, I have a lot of custom Fonts (like Bill Duncan's fonts) that have 
Annotation files. So I thought I would put them in the Global (root) Library's 
annotation folder. That didn't work. I believe I had to put them in the user 
one. But I wanted it global though..and what happens when there are TWO 
different versions of, say, an annotation file? Which will Finale choose to 
use? 

But what do I know, I guess I don't know how my OS works.


On Oct 4, 2010, at 8:28 AM, David W. Fenton wrote:

> On 4 Oct 2010 at 12:39, Eric Fiedler wrote:
> 
>> although David F. has
>> made a plausible case for the Finale File to be both in the general
>> _and_ in the user "App Support" folder, it seems to me to be the kind
>> of information that FinMac users should be told about, just in case
>> they're brave enough to try to change something (again: no mention
>> that I can find in the Help Files).
> 
> It's not a Finale issue. It's an OS issue. If you know how your OS 
> works, this would be something you know. If you don't know that, it's 
> something you shouldn't even be worrying about.
> 
> -- 
> David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com
> David Fenton Associates   http://dfenton.com/DFA/
> 
> ___
> Finale mailing list
> Finale@shsu.edu
> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

NOT Sent from my iSomething



___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale


Re: [Finale] Re: Where's the Default Document?

2010-10-04 Thread Eric Dannewitz
Um, it's actually NOT in the Applications folder anymore.and they are not 
read only. The confusion is that MakeMusic has duplicate files in two different 
Library locations. The Library on the root (or global library) and then 
duplicates in the user's library...

But what do I know, I don't know how my OS works it seems.


On Oct 4, 2010, at 9:33 AM, David W. Fenton wrote:

> On 4 Oct 2010 at 8:59, Michael Greensill wrote:
> 
>> <> works, this would be something you know. If you don't know that, it's
>> something you shouldn't even be worrying about.>> 
>> 
>> Well I can assure that I know nothing about the OS. But access to the
>> default document of Finale is very important. 
> 
> And what's the issue? The one in the user profile is the one you 
> should be concerned with, not the ones stored in the application 
> folder (unless you want to force all other users to use an altered 
> version of the default document).
> 
> Indeed, in general, the ones stored in the application folder likely 
> are read-only (without elevating privileges, which depending on your 
> OS, you may be prompted for automatically, or not).
> 
> 
> -- 
> David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com
> David Fenton Associates   http://dfenton.com/DFA/
> 
> ___
> Finale mailing list
> Finale@shsu.edu
> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

NOT Sent from my iSomething



___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale


Re: [Finale] Re: Where's the Default Document?

2010-10-04 Thread Eric Dannewitz
It does seem a little troubling. What happens when you have two different 
versions of something? Like say Font Annotations?

And as I pointed out, I don't see other programs following what MakeMusic 
decided to do with their strange Library setup (duplicating the stuff because 
of Permission issues? Really? Come on..)

On Oct 4, 2010, at 3:39 AM, Eric Fiedler wrote:

> Thanks to all who helped me out with this one. But: although David F. has 
> made a plausible case for the Finale File to be both in the general _and_ in 
> the user "App Support" folder, it seems to me to be the kind of information 
> that FinMac users should be told about, just in case they're brave enough to 
> try to change something (again: no mention that I can find in the Help 
> Files). And: didn't it used to be asking for trouble to have multiple copies 
> of fonts on the same partition?
> Eric
> 
> Habsburger Verlag Frankfurt (Dr. Fiedler)
> www.habsburgerverlag.de
> eric.f.fied...@t-online.de
> e.fied...@em.uni-frankfurt.de
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> Finale mailing list
> Finale@shsu.edu
> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

NOT Sent from my iSomething



___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale


Re: [Finale] Re: Where's the Default Document?

2010-10-04 Thread David W. Fenton
On 4 Oct 2010 at 9:34, Eric Dannewitz wrote:

> So...I could list some more, but I see no other Mac program that
> out right stores pretty much the same stuff in TWO locations.

You choose as your example a Microsoft program?

My point is that you basically shouldn't care about the "archive" 
copies of the files in the application folder, just as you don't care 
about whatever "magic" Microsoft apps use to create their template 
files. That's likely hardwired somewhere non-obvious in the 
application and the configuration files, and not alterable by the end 
user, and you just don't worry about it -- you just let the 
application do its job. If that means a new installation of Word has 
the wrong font in your Normal.dot document template, that's just the 
way it works.

Likewise, with Finale, you should basically be ignoring the 
"reference" files in the application folder. They are for Finale's 
use, not yours. The ones that are for *your* use are the ones in the 
user folder.

The difference between MS Office and Finale is that MS is more 
obscure about where it's getting its reference files from. There is 
no real difference, though, in that somewhere there's a definition of 
what the default templates are going to be in a newly-created user 
profile. 

Finale just makes it easier to figure out where those are coming 
from.

But that doesn't mean you should care about those files at all.

-- 
David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com
David Fenton Associates   http://dfenton.com/DFA/

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale


Re: [Finale] Re: Where's the Default Document?

2010-10-04 Thread Eric Dannewitz
Well, that is one program that had something similar. None of the Apple iLife 
programs seem to have any format like what MakeMusic is using. Nor does Avid's 
ProTools. I suppose I could have used Adobe but there is so much crap installed 
by Adobe CS that I can't find anything remotely like what MakeMusic is doing. 
Adobe literally floods the Application Support/Adobe Folder with subfolders

Microsoft I think has the better idea, to have the program generate the default 
files when starting up under a new user rather than to have the files sitting 
in the global library. It is just causing a lot of confusion and a lot of 
duplication of files/settings with the end user ending up not knowing exactly 
what to modify where.


On Oct 4, 2010, at 9:51 AM, David W. Fenton wrote:

> On 4 Oct 2010 at 9:34, Eric Dannewitz wrote:
> 
>> So...I could list some more, but I see no other Mac program that
>> out right stores pretty much the same stuff in TWO locations.
> 
> You choose as your example a Microsoft program?
> 
> My point is that you basically shouldn't care about the "archive" 
> copies of the files in the application folder, just as you don't care 
> about whatever "magic" Microsoft apps use to create their template 
> files. That's likely hardwired somewhere non-obvious in the 
> application and the configuration files, and not alterable by the end 
> user, and you just don't worry about it -- you just let the 
> application do its job. If that means a new installation of Word has 
> the wrong font in your Normal.dot document template, that's just the 
> way it works.
> 
> Likewise, with Finale, you should basically be ignoring the 
> "reference" files in the application folder. They are for Finale's 
> use, not yours. The ones that are for *your* use are the ones in the 
> user folder.
> 
> The difference between MS Office and Finale is that MS is more 
> obscure about where it's getting its reference files from. There is 
> no real difference, though, in that somewhere there's a definition of 
> what the default templates are going to be in a newly-created user 
> profile. 
> 
> Finale just makes it easier to figure out where those are coming 
> from.
> 
> But that doesn't mean you should care about those files at all.
> 
> -- 
> David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com
> David Fenton Associates   http://dfenton.com/DFA/
> 
> ___
> Finale mailing list
> Finale@shsu.edu
> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

NOT Sent from my iSomething



___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale


[Finale] Re: Finale Digest, Vol 87, Issue 4

2010-10-04 Thread Daniel Wolf
I have to protest about this.  I, like plenty of other computers users, am  
the only person allowed (or likely or willing) to go anywhere near the  
computer in my office/studio/composing garrett.  While I can appreciate  
that there are office settings in which a computer will have multiple  
users, raising multiple user security issues,  having a multiple user set  
up as the only default can be an awful waste of time and brain cells,  
neither of which your typical composer/arranger/copyist can much afford to  
lose, given (as Slonimsky put it) irreversibly obsolescence and recessive  
infantiloquy and all the other things a musician has to do to earn a  
living.


Daniel Wolf


On Mon, 04 Oct 2010 19:02:04 +0200, David Fenton wrote:


You're thinking in single-user mode, but Finale is designed for mult-
user scenarios (as it should be). The copies in the in the Mac
HD/Library are for everybody (and likely read-only?), while the
copies in ~/Username/Library are specific to each user.
This is the correct organization for modern multi-user OS's.

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale


Re: [Finale] Re: Where's the Default Document?

2010-10-04 Thread Chuck Israels

On Oct 4, 2010, at 9:51 AM, David W. Fenton wrote:

> 
> Likewise, with Finale, you should basically be ignoring the 
> "reference" files in the application folder. They are for Finale's 
> use, not yours. The ones that are for *your* use are the ones in the 
> user folder.

Except, as Eric points out, there is confusion about where Font Annotation 
files need to be placed in order to do their job, and this turns out to be in 
the Application Support folders at the root level.  That's the only place from 
which they work.  This is the only example I have found that does not follow 
the logic MM and you describe, but I go through the frustrating process of 
figuring this out (I am forgetful about it, I admit) each time I upgrade.

Chuck



Chuck Israels
1310 NW Naito Parkway #807
Portland, OR 97209-3162
phone: (503) 926-7952
cell phone: (360) 201-3434
www.chuckisraels.com


___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale


Re: [Finale] Re: Where's the Default Document?

2010-10-04 Thread David W. Fenton
On 4 Oct 2010 at 11:23, Chuck Israels wrote:

> On Oct 4, 2010, at 9:51 AM, David W. Fenton wrote:
> 
> > Likewise, with Finale, you should basically be ignoring the 
> > "reference" files in the application folder. They are for Finale's
> > use, not yours. The ones that are for *your* use are the ones in the
> > user folder.
> 
> Except, as Eric points out, there is confusion about where Font
> Annotation files need to be placed in order to do their job, and this
> turns out to be in the Application Support folders at the root level. 
> That's the only place from which they work.  This is the only example
> I have found that does not follow the logic MM and you describe, but I
> go through the frustrating process of figuring this out (I am
> forgetful about it, I admit) each time I upgrade.

That seems to be an implementation error on MM's part, then. 

-- 
David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com
David Fenton Associates   http://dfenton.com/DFA/

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale


Re: [Finale] Re: Finale Digest, Vol 87, Issue 4

2010-10-04 Thread David W. Fenton
On 4 Oct 2010 at 20:11, Daniel Wolf wrote:

> I have to protest about this.  I, like plenty of other computers users,
> am the only person allowed (or likely or willing) to go anywhere near
> the computer in my office/studio/composing garrett.  While I can
> appreciate that there are office settings in which a computer will have
> multiple users, raising multiple user security issues,  having a
> multiple user set up as the only default can be an awful waste of time
> and brain cells, neither of which your typical
> composer/arranger/copyist can much afford to lose, given (as Slonimsky
> put it) irreversibly obsolescence and recessive infantiloquy and all
> the other things a musician has to do to earn a living. 

You shouldn't need to "waste any brain cells" on this. That's the 
whole point -- leave the OS and your software alone. It's supposed to 
take care of all this without you having to worry about it.

One of the problems for Windows users in transitioning to 
Vista/Windows 7 is that they've been used to running as administrator 
(wrongly so -- they should never have been doing that because of the 
safety issues), and having full access to everywhere on their hard 
drive. This is despite the fact that the default Windows permissions 
have been set up such that non-admins had full read/write access only 
to the data in their personal profile (like any multi-user OS) since 
the release of Windows 2000, in 1999.

The fact is, your OS is designed around the idea that there are 
certain files on your computer that are none of your business, and 
that's what this is about more than multi-user issues. The OS and 
application files (and the data libraries that support those apps) 
are none of your business, and you should basically not be concerning 
yourself with them. Your data is your data, though, and the OS and 
your apps segregate that for you in locations over which you have 
full control.

The problem is that many people have become accustomed to caring 
about the application and OS files, when they shouldn't have worried 
themselves over them at all.

Now, that is not to say that some applications may not be badly 
designed and do a haphazard job of getting the files into the right 
places to fit this architecture. I'm not certain whether Finale is 
doing everything right or not, but the point is simply that the files 
you should worry about are the ones in your user profile. Everything 
else you should leave up to your OS and your application.

-- 
David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com
David Fenton Associates   http://dfenton.com/DFA/

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale


Re: [Finale] Re: Finale Digest, Vol 87, Issue 4

2010-10-04 Thread Eric Dannewitz
Yeah, but..MakeMusic decided to do it and you have to live with it. Like 
how they will move menu items in new versions. Or take behaviors like the Staff 
Tool and when you double click a handle it seems not to bring up the attributes 
anymore.

There perhaps should be an OPTION to edit the behaviors of these things..

I hardly ever see a program that when its updated drastically change how things 
work.


On Oct 4, 2010, at 11:11 AM, Daniel Wolf wrote:

> I have to protest about this.  I, like plenty of other computers users, am 
> the only person allowed (or likely or willing) to go anywhere near the 
> computer in my office/studio/composing garrett.  While I can appreciate that 
> there are office settings in which a computer will have multiple users, 
> raising multiple user security issues,  having a multiple user set up as the 
> only default can be an awful waste of time and brain cells, neither of which 
> your typical composer/arranger/copyist can much afford to lose, given (as 
> Slonimsky put it) irreversibly obsolescence and recessive infantiloquy and 
> all the other things a musician has to do to earn a living.
> 
> Daniel Wolf
> 
> 
> On Mon, 04 Oct 2010 19:02:04 +0200, David Fenton wrote:
> 
>> You're thinking in single-user mode, but Finale is designed for mult-
>> user scenarios (as it should be). The copies in the in the Mac
>> HD/Library are for everybody (and likely read-only?), while the
>> copies in ~/Username/Library are specific to each user.
>> This is the correct organization for modern multi-user OS's.
> ___
> Finale mailing list
> Finale@shsu.edu
> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

NOT Sent from my iSomething



___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale


Re: [Finale] Re: Where's the Default Document?

2010-10-04 Thread Eric Fiedler
David,
As Justin has just kindly pointed out, this is a _new_ development in Finale's 
file structure, something quite different from the previous versions, and it 
would have been a _great_ help to those of us who don't always have time to 
RTFM from cover to cover each time a new version comes out to know about it. 
Just a quick link in the "What's New" Intro to the relevant on-line 
documentation (Thanks Justin!) would have done the trick. And by the way, I 
_do_ know how my OS works, and I obviously _didn't_ know how Finale had changed 
to adapt to it. ;-)
The other Eric

Habsburger Verlag Frankfurt (Dr. Fiedler)
www.habsburgerverlag.de
eric.f.fied...@t-online.de
e.fied...@em.uni-frankfurt.de



On 04.10.2010, at 17:28, David W. Fenton wrote:

> On 4 Oct 2010 at 12:39, Eric Fiedler wrote:
> 
>> although David F. has
>> made a plausible case for the Finale File to be both in the general
>> _and_ in the user "App Support" folder, it seems to me to be the kind
>> of information that FinMac users should be told about, just in case
>> they're brave enough to try to change something (again: no mention
>> that I can find in the Help Files).
> 
> It's not a Finale issue. It's an OS issue. If you know how your OS 
> works, this would be something you know. If you don't know that, it's 
> something you shouldn't even be worrying about.
> 
> -- 
> David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com
> David Fenton Associates   http://dfenton.com/DFA/
> 
> ___
> Finale mailing list
> Finale@shsu.edu
> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale


___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale


Re: [Finale] Re: Where's the Default Document?

2010-10-04 Thread Chuck Israels

On Oct 4, 2010, at 12:27 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:

> On 4 Oct 2010 at 11:23, Chuck Israels wrote:
> 
>> On Oct 4, 2010, at 9:51 AM, David W. Fenton wrote:
>> 
>>> Likewise, with Finale, you should basically be ignoring the 
>>> "reference" files in the application folder. They are for Finale's
>>> use, not yours. The ones that are for *your* use are the ones in the
>>> user folder.
>> 
>> Except, as Eric points out, there is confusion about where Font
>> Annotation files need to be placed in order to do their job, and this
>> turns out to be in the Application Support folders at the root level. 
>> That's the only place from which they work.  This is the only example
>> I have found that does not follow the logic MM and you describe, but I
>> go through the frustrating process of figuring this out (I am
>> forgetful about it, I admit) each time I upgrade.
> 
> That seems to be an implementation error on MM's part, then. 

So it seems. I will ask MM to explore the possibility of fixing this.  It 
doesn't seem (from my limited perspective) to be a difficult thing to do, since 
everything else seems to be controlled by the files stored at the user level.

Chuck


Chuck Israels
1310 NW Naito Parkway #807
Portland, OR 97209-3162
phone: (503) 926-7952
cell phone: (360) 201-3434
www.chuckisraels.com


___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale


Re: [Finale] Unequal notes tied together

2010-10-04 Thread John Howell

Just brief comments on what Bill wrote:


If you tie A# to Bb, then the notes will be on separate lines or spaces.


Yes, clearly they will be.  Which MAY mean that while the mark is 
technically a tie, you might have to enter it as a slur so it will 
LOOK right.  Either that or adjust the endpoints.




But that would require a key change, for example B major to B flat major.
Unless you use accidentals, of course.


Not necessarily.  It could be a transition to a temporarily new key, 
but without changing the key signature.  It happens a lot.  And it 
happens when the composer/arranger/engraver considers the new altered 
note to be definitely part of the new phrase and not the old one.  As 
I said, at transition points, and as part of the transition.




The key signature would have to be between them. So how would the tie mark
be accomplished? It would have to go THROUGH the key signature change.


Good question, but hand copyists and metal-on-metal engravers have 
done it for a long, long time, so there must be a way.  But as I 
picture it, key signatures stay within the staff, while ties can be 
raised or lowered if necessary.  But I certainly wouldn't move the 
key change if the only reaso to do so were to avoid a tie through the 
signature change!




If the A sharp is at the end of a line, then the B flat would be at 
the beginning of the next line.

That's the only way around it, as far as I can determine.


I don't think that would solve it.  There's still going to be a key signature.



That would be very confusing to read anyway. I doubt that someone 
using standard music notation would

do that. So if you see any examples in REAL music, please point one out.


I'm afraid I can't oblige you by coming up with specific examples off 
the top of my head, BUT I have seen it and played it many times, so 
yes, it is perfectly "standard" notation in orchestral music and in 
Broadway books, and probably in concert band music as well, although 
it tends to be less adventurous in terms of key changes.  And yes, it 
is ALWAYS confusing to sightread because you have to make an 
intellectual adjustment and not just unthinkingly put your fingers in 
a certain place.  But it's still done when the alternative would be 
even more confusing.


John


--
John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music
Virginia Tech Department of Music
College of Liberal Arts & Human Sciences
Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240
Vox (540) 231-8411  Fax (540) 231-5034
(mailto:john.how...@vt.edu)
http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html

"We never play anything the same way once."  Shelly Manne's definition
of jazz musicians.
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale


[Finale] Sibelius question

2010-10-04 Thread Linda Worsley
I just been asked a Finale question by a composer friend who uses Sibeliius.

Can Finale files be imported into Sibelius?  And/or the other way round?

I should know this, after using Finale since Version 0.0, but I don't.

Help!

Linda Worsley
Composer, Arranger
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale


Re: [Finale] Sibelius question

2010-10-04 Thread Eric Dannewitz
MusicXML is probably the easiest way to do it.

On Oct 4, 2010, at 8:09 PM, Linda Worsley wrote:

> I just been asked a Finale question by a composer friend who uses Sibeliius.
> 
> Can Finale files be imported into Sibelius?  And/or the other way round?
> 
> I should know this, after using Finale since Version 0.0, but I don't.
> 
> Help!
> 
> Linda Worsley
> Composer, Arranger
> ___
> Finale mailing list
> Finale@shsu.edu
> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

NOT Sent from my iSomething



___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale


Re: [Finale] Sibelius question

2010-10-04 Thread David McKay
Eric, I like your sig, but I was tempted to laboriously text this from my
iSomething...

I've just written a program for a flute and piano concert tomorrow, noting
that New Grove was consulted, but Wikipedia wasn't.

David McKay


> NOT Sent from my iSomething
>
>
>
> ___
>
-- 
www.mitchellcon.blogspot.com
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale


Re: [Finale] Sibelius question

2010-10-04 Thread Eric Dannewitz
Ah, but typing on an iSomething isn't so bad..

Sent from my iSomething

On Oct 4, 2010, at 11:08 PM, David McKay  wrote:

> Eric, I like your sig, but I was tempted to laboriously text this from my
> iSomething...
>
> I've just written a program for a flute and piano concert tomorrow, noting
> that New Grove was consulted, but Wikipedia wasn't.
>
> David McKay
>
>
>> NOT Sent from my iSomething
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>>
> --
> www.mitchellcon.blogspot.com
> ___
> Finale mailing list
> Finale@shsu.edu
> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale