Re: [Finale] OT - New toys (I mean, productivity aids!)

[Kurt Gnos]

This is bullshit. I have a wireless network and a logitec wireless mouse, 
which I had before WLAN. And there is no difference!

At 19:48 24.08.2004, you wrote:
Do you have a wireless network? If so, the batteries run out much,
much more quickly. And it doesn't even have to be *your* wireless
network -- any WiFi network in the same area can interfere enough to
cause problems.

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Re: [Finale] OT - New toys (I mean, productivity aids!)

[dhbailey]

Howard Begun wrote:
David Bailey wrote:

Are there any Windows users with wireless networks on this list who
also use cordless keyboards and/or mice?  I am very interested in
it, but not if it eats batteries every few hours.

I use an MS Wireless Desktop Elite which includes an Intellimouse
Explorer 2.0. I have a D-Link 802.11g wireless router sitting about 3
feet from the mouse/keyboard receiver. I've had no interference
problems and I get about 2-3 months on the mouse batteries and 5-6 on
the keyboard. This is with daily (8-10 hours) use. Earlier MS mice
did go through batteries pretty quickly (weeks, not hours) but the
latest generation is supposed to have much better power management
and my own experience seems to back this up. More importantly, I find
no difference in response or precision than with corded mice.
[snip]
Howard,
Thanks for your reply.  I will continue to consider cordless mouse and 
keyboard, based on your experience.

David
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Re: [Finale] OT - New toys (I mean, productivity aids!)

[Howard Begun]

David Bailey wrote:

> Are there any Windows users with wireless networks on this list who also 
> use cordless keyboards and/or mice?  I am very interested in it, but not 
> if it eats batteries every few hours.

I use an MS Wireless Desktop Elite which includes an Intellimouse Explorer 2.0. I have 
a D-Link 802.11g wireless router sitting about 3 feet from the mouse/keyboard 
receiver. I've had no interference problems and I get about 2-3 months on the mouse 
batteries and 5-6 on the keyboard. This is with daily (8-10 hours) use. Earlier MS 
mice did go through batteries pretty quickly (weeks, not hours) but the latest 
generation is supposed to have much better power management and my own experience 
seems to back this up. More importantly, I find no difference in response or precision 
than with corded mice.

I also have a Logitech MX700 rechargeable mouse. It lasts 2-3 days off the cradle 
(which doubles as the receiver). and fully charges in a few hours. If you forget to 
charge it and need to use it immediately, standard batteries can be substituted. I use 
this mouse with my portable so it's in a different room than the router but is usually 
near the wireless receiver (also a "g") and again I've had no interference problems. 
In addition to my own setup, I usually see 2 or 3 others on the "available networks" 
list.

Finally, I have a Kensington wireless PocketMouse that I also use with my portable. 
I've had it for about 6 months and am still using the original batteries that it came 
with. I don't use this one nearly as much as the other two, but it's certainly well 
past the "first few hours" point.

For what it's worth, I love being cord-free. The mouse cord always seemed to be in my 
way and frequently got caught on various objects. The wireless keyboard is nice to 
have when I need to temporarily clear some desk space. The latest MS mice (wireless 
and corded) also have a "tilt-wheel" feature. Pressing the wheel to the side causes 
the window to scroll horizontally. This really comes in handy when working in Finale's 
scroll view (this requires Intellipoint 5.2 which just came out a few weeks ago).

One other thing. Finale doesn't recognize the scroll wheel with some XP mouse drivers 
(including Intellipoint 5.x), but this can be easily worked around by installing a 
freeware utility called "Freewheel". A Google search should turn up the download site.

Howard Begun
New York



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Re: [Finale] OT - New toys (I mean, productivity aids!)

[Rocky Road]

 > > > One is a Logitech cordless optical mouse
 >
 >Wait until the batteries start to run out.
 >
 >Which should be about two hours after you hook it up.
 >
 >More specifically: none of my clients have kept used a cordless mouse
 >for very long, because the batteries run out so quickly, and start
 >causing unreliability of the mouse pointer so soon that it's just too
 > >annoying to deal with.
The Logitech Bluetooth cordless mouse (MX500 I think) includes a 
holster with a recharger in the receiving base station. You just sit 
your mouse in it at the end of the day and its fully recharged every 
morning.

My Mac has BT built in so I don't need the receiver but it still 
works as a charger. Haven't changed the mouse batteries since I 
bought it (it comes with a set of NiMH AA's).

I also have the Apple BT keyboard. Its still on its original alkaline 
batteries, but I do turn it off when I'm not using it.

--
Rocky Road - in Oz
"Fleeing from the Cylon tyranny, the last Battlestar, Galactica, 
leads a ragtag, fugitive fleet, on a lonely quest, for a shining 
planet known as Earth."
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Re: [Finale] OT - New toys (I mean, productivity aids!)

[David W. Fenton]

On 24 Aug 2004 at 19:37, Darcy James Argue wrote:

> On 24 Aug 2004, at 02:59 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
> 
> > On 24 Aug 2004 at 14:52, Darcy James Argue wrote:
> >
> >> Actually what it sounds like is that the Windows Bluetooth
> >> implementation is really, really lousy.
> >
> > What the hell does Bluetooth have to do with it? Neither WiFi or the
> > MS cordless mouse run on Bluetooth.
> 
> Actually, *this* Microsoft cordless mouse uses Bluetooth.  I thought 
> that's the one you were talking about.
> 
>  productdetails.aspx?pid=001>

Yes, and that's not what my clients had -- they had the non-Bluetooth 
wireless mouse (which is cheaper, for one thing). Perhaps a Bluetooth 
one would not have been a problem -- I don't know.

> Anyway, Chris Smith (who you were replying to) is a Mac user.  If he 
> were to get a wireless mouse, it would probably be a Bluetooth one, 
> because Bluetooth is standard on Macs -- and, as I said, integrated 
> quite nicely into the OS.

I was reporting real-life experiences with a wireless mouse, but as 
everyone should know by now, I don't have anything to do with Macs. 
Either the information I post is applicable to Mac users or its not. 
Details of Bluetooth or not really have nothing to do with it -- it 
it's a problem in one configuration it could potentially be an issue 
in any configuration, on any OS.

-- 
David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton
David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc

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Re: [Finale] OT - New toys (I mean, productivity aids!)

[Darcy James Argue]

On 24 Aug 2004, at 02:59 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
On 24 Aug 2004 at 14:52, Darcy James Argue wrote:
Actually what it sounds like is that the Windows Bluetooth
implementation is really, really lousy.
What the hell does Bluetooth have to do with it? Neither WiFi or the
MS cordless mouse run on Bluetooth.
Actually, *this* Microsoft cordless mouse uses Bluetooth.  I thought  
that's the one you were talking about.



Anyway, Chris Smith (who you were replying to) is a Mac user.  If he  
were to get a wireless mouse, it would probably be a Bluetooth one,  
because Bluetooth is standard on Macs -- and, as I said, integrated  
quite nicely into the OS.

- Darcy
-
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Brooklyn, NY
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Re: [Finale] OT - New toys (I mean, productivity aids!)

[dhbailey]

Darcy James Argue wrote:
Actually what it sounds like is that the Windows Bluetooth 
implementation is really, really lousy.

I have an Apple wireless keyboard and mouse (both Bluetooth), and the 
batteries last for months.  Plus, the OS warns you when the batteries 
are getting low, well in advance of any performance degradation.  I have 
two complete sets of rechargeable Ni-MH AA batteries, and I just rotate 
them as needed.  Our Wireless B network has absolutely no influence on 
battery life.

It would be interesting to know if Wireless G networks have a different 
effect.  Especially because that's what I'm running at home.

But I wouldn't put it past Microsoft not to implement something properly.
Are there any Windows users with wireless networks on this list who also 
use cordless keyboards and/or mice?  I am very interested in it, but not 
if it eats batteries every few hours.

Thanks for any further insights anybody can share.
--
David H. Bailey
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Re: [Finale] OT - New toys (I mean, productivity aids!)

[David W. Fenton]

On 24 Aug 2004 at 14:52, Darcy James Argue wrote:

> Actually what it sounds like is that the Windows Bluetooth 
> implementation is really, really lousy.

What the hell does Bluetooth have to do with it? Neither WiFi or the 
MS cordless mouse run on Bluetooth.

> I have an Apple wireless keyboard and mouse (both Bluetooth), and the
> batteries last for months.  Plus, the OS warns you when the batteries
> are getting low, well in advance of any performance degradation.  I
> have two complete sets of rechargeable Ni-MH AA batteries, and I just
> rotate them as needed.  Our Wireless B network has absolutely no
> influence on battery life.

I'm just warning of real-world problems that people have had with 
their wireless mouse. Like trackballs, they seem like a better idea 
than they turn out to be in the end, and most of the people I've seen 
start out with them have switched back.

Just reporting what I've seen for those who don't deal with as many 
different computers as I do.

-- 
David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton
David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc

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Re: [Finale] OT - New toys (I mean, productivity aids!)

[Darcy James Argue]

Actually what it sounds like is that the Windows Bluetooth 
implementation is really, really lousy.

I have an Apple wireless keyboard and mouse (both Bluetooth), and the 
batteries last for months.  Plus, the OS warns you when the batteries 
are getting low, well in advance of any performance degradation.  I 
have two complete sets of rechargeable Ni-MH AA batteries, and I just 
rotate them as needed.  Our Wireless B network has absolutely no 
influence on battery life.

- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY
On 24 Aug 2004, at 02:38 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
On 24 Aug 2004 at 14:30, Christopher Smith wrote:
On Aug 24, 2004, at 1:48 PM, David W. Fenton wrote about wireless
mouses:
Do you have a wireless network? If so, the batteries
run out much, much more quickly. And it doesn't even have to be
*your* wireless network -- any WiFi network in the same area can
interfere enough to cause problems.
Really? I didn't know that wireless networks affected mouse battery
life. Can you explain why this is? I don't have a wireless network,
but I may in the future, and this would be good to know.
It's not that it does something to the battery, but it means the
mouse transmits more often, apparently, and this constant
retransmitting runs down the battery in ways that it does not when
there's no WiFi network present.
I'm not sure why there is interference, because they can't possibly
be operating on the same radio spectrum, but that's what I now
remember MS tech support telling one of my clients, that the wireless
mouse could experience interference from WiFi that could lead to
reduced battery life (it was an MS wireless optical mouse).
I know it sounds kind of fishy, but it was a reasonable explanation
of why my clients were having problems with battery life and other
people don't seem to have as much.
--
David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton
David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc
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Re: [Finale] OT - New toys (I mean, productivity aids!)

[David W. Fenton]

On 24 Aug 2004 at 14:30, Christopher Smith wrote:

> 
> On Aug 24, 2004, at 1:48 PM, David W. Fenton wrote about wireless
> mouses: 
> > Do you have a wireless network? If so, the batteries
> > run out much, much more quickly. And it doesn't even have to be
> > *your* wireless network -- any WiFi network in the same area can
> > interfere enough to cause problems.
> 
> Really? I didn't know that wireless networks affected mouse battery
> life. Can you explain why this is? I don't have a wireless network,
> but I may in the future, and this would be good to know.

It's not that it does something to the battery, but it means the 
mouse transmits more often, apparently, and this constant 
retransmitting runs down the battery in ways that it does not when 
there's no WiFi network present.

I'm not sure why there is interference, because they can't possibly 
be operating on the same radio spectrum, but that's what I now 
remember MS tech support telling one of my clients, that the wireless 
mouse could experience interference from WiFi that could lead to 
reduced battery life (it was an MS wireless optical mouse).

I know it sounds kind of fishy, but it was a reasonable explanation 
of why my clients were having problems with battery life and other 
people don't seem to have as much.

-- 
David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton
David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc

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Re: [Finale] OT - New toys (I mean, productivity aids!)

[Christopher Smith]

On Aug 24, 2004, at 1:48 PM, David W. Fenton wrote about wireless 
mouses:

Do you have a wireless network? If so, the batteries run out much,
much more quickly. And it doesn't even have to be *your* wireless
network -- any WiFi network in the same area can interfere enough to
cause problems.
Really? I didn't know that wireless networks affected mouse battery 
life. Can you explain why this is? I don't have a wireless network, but 
I may in the future, and this would be good to know.

Christopher
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Re: [Finale] OT - New toys (I mean, productivity aids!)

[Giz Bowe]

No, I'm working a standalone computer in my office -- no network in sight 
(site?).

At 01:48 PM 8/24/04, you wrote:
On 23 Aug 2004 at 22:37, Giz Bowe wrote:
> I've actually had quite good luck with a Microsoft Optical Mouse --
> works like it's supposed to, and the batteries last at least 8 weeks
> and more. It seems I've only changed them about 4 or 5 times in the 20
> months I've had it -- got it for Xmas 2002. My buddy, however, had
> problems with his mouse, which were solved when he upgraded his
> computer.
Do you have a wireless network? If so, the batteries run out much,
much more quickly. And it doesn't even have to be *your* wireless
network -- any WiFi network in the same area can interfere enough to
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Re: [Finale] OT - New toys (I mean, productivity aids!)

[David W. Fenton]

On 23 Aug 2004 at 22:37, Giz Bowe wrote:

> At 05:03 PM 8/23/04, you wrote:
> >On 21 Aug 2004 at 18:57, Christopher Smith wrote:
> >
> > > One is a Logitech cordless optical mouse
> >
> >Wait until the batteries start to run out.
> >
> >Which should be about two hours after you hook it up.
> >
> >More specifically: none of my clients have kept used a cordless mouse
> >for very long, because the batteries run out so quickly, and start
> >causing unreliability of the mouse pointer so soon that it's just too
> >annoying to deal with.
> 
> Sure, it's annoying when the batteries run out, but just change 'em!
> I've actually had quite good luck with a Microsoft Optical Mouse --
> works like it's supposed to, and the batteries last at least 8 weeks
> and more. It seems I've only changed them about 4 or 5 times in the 20
> months I've had it -- got it for Xmas 2002. My buddy, however, had
> problems with his mouse, which were solved when he upgraded his
> computer.

Do you have a wireless network? If so, the batteries run out much, 
much more quickly. And it doesn't even have to be *your* wireless 
network -- any WiFi network in the same area can interfere enough to 
cause problems.

-- 
David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton
David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc

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Re: [Finale] OT - New toys (I mean, productivity aids!)

[Giz Bowe]

At 05:03 PM 8/23/04, you wrote:
On 21 Aug 2004 at 18:57, Christopher Smith wrote:
> One is a Logitech cordless optical mouse
Wait until the batteries start to run out.
Which should be about two hours after you hook it up.
More specifically: none of my clients have kept used a cordless mouse
for very long, because the batteries run out so quickly, and start
causing unreliability of the mouse pointer so soon that it's just too
annoying to deal with.
Sure, it's annoying when the batteries run out, but just change 'em! I've 
actually had quite good luck with a Microsoft Optical Mouse -- works like 
it's supposed to, and the batteries last at least 8 weeks and more. It 
seems I've only changed them about 4 or 5 times in the 20 months I've had 
it -- got it for Xmas 2002. My buddy, however, had problems with his mouse, 
which were solved when he upgraded his computer.

I love the cordless mouse - cuts down on the clutter, as I use a MIDI 
keyboard for Finale. It's well worth trying out -- just get it from 
someplace which will give you a refund or credit if it doesn't work for you.

Giz
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Re: [Finale] OT - New toys (I mean, productivity aids!)

[David W. Fenton]

On 23 Aug 2004 at 18:56, Christopher Smith wrote:

> On Aug 23, 2004, at 5:03 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
> 
> > On 21 Aug 2004 at 18:57, Christopher Smith wrote:
> >
> >> One is a Logitech cordless optical mouse
> >
> > Wait until the batteries start to run out.
> >
> > Which should be about two hours after you hook it up.
> >
> > More specifically: none of my clients have kept used a cordless
> > mouse for very long, because the batteries run out so quickly, and
> > start causing unreliability of the mouse pointer so soon that it's
> > just too annoying to deal with.
> 
> Heh, heh! Thanks for the concern, but I thought of that already. I
> have two pairs of rechargeable AA cells, so when one pair goes, I will
> use the other two from the set. They are supposed to be good for
> 300-500 chargings. They make a rechargeable cordless mouse with a
> charging stand, too, which was a few dollars more, but I knew I had
> those AA cells at home. So far I am about a week into it on the
> Duracell batteries that came with it, and no sign of letting up.

One of my clients has the same setup. They went back to the plain old 
optical mouse with a tail because the rechargable batteries don't 
last long enough, and at the end of their usable charge, the mouse 
becomes very eratic.

> I also have my old mouse within reach in case of emergencies, which is
> hot-pluggable. I don't even have to reboot.

I wouldn't have a cordless mouse, myself. I've used them when the 
batteries are going, and it's intolerable.

-- 
David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton
David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc

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Re: [Finale] OT - New toys (I mean, productivity aids!)

[Christopher Smith]

On Aug 23, 2004, at 5:03 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
On 21 Aug 2004 at 18:57, Christopher Smith wrote:
One is a Logitech cordless optical mouse
Wait until the batteries start to run out.
Which should be about two hours after you hook it up.
More specifically: none of my clients have kept used a cordless mouse
for very long, because the batteries run out so quickly, and start
causing unreliability of the mouse pointer so soon that it's just too
annoying to deal with.
Heh, heh! Thanks for the concern, but I thought of that already. I have 
two pairs of rechargeable AA cells, so when one pair goes, I will use 
the other two from the set. They are supposed to be good for 300-500 
chargings. They make a rechargeable cordless mouse with a charging 
stand, too, which was a few dollars more, but I knew I had those AA 
cells at home. So far I am about a week into it on the Duracell 
batteries that came with it, and no sign of letting up.

I also have my old mouse within reach in case of emergencies, which is 
hot-pluggable. I don't even have to reboot.

Christopher
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Re: [Finale] OT - New toys (I mean, productivity aids!)

[dhbailey]

David W. Fenton wrote:
On 21 Aug 2004 at 18:57, Christopher Smith wrote:

One is a Logitech cordless optical mouse

Wait until the batteries start to run out.
Which should be about two hours after you hook it up.
More specifically: none of my clients have kept used a cordless mouse 
for very long, because the batteries run out so quickly, and start 
causing unreliability of the mouse pointer so soon that it's just too 
annoying to deal with.

I hadn't thought about that aspect of things.  I'm glad you posted this 
caution as I had been considering a cordless mouse.

Thanks for saving me a lot frustration, to say nothing about the wasted 
money.

--
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Re: [Finale] OT - New toys (I mean, productivity aids!)

[David W. Fenton]

On 21 Aug 2004 at 18:57, Christopher Smith wrote:

> One is a Logitech cordless optical mouse

Wait until the batteries start to run out.

Which should be about two hours after you hook it up.

More specifically: none of my clients have kept used a cordless mouse 
for very long, because the batteries run out so quickly, and start 
causing unreliability of the mouse pointer so soon that it's just too 
annoying to deal with.

-- 
David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton
David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc

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Re: [Finale] OT - New toys (I mean, productivity aids!)

[Brad Beyenhof]

On Sat, 21 Aug 2004 18:57:23 -0400, Christopher Smith
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> One is a Logitech cordless optical mouse; the one I got is the Click
> Plus. Left and right main buttons, two thumb buttons, a scroll wheel
> that clicks too, and a smaller centre button, all assignable. Quite a
> change from the standard one button mouse that came with my Mac, though
> it worked quite well.

Speaking of mice we like, I thought I'd also send the list a
recommendation of the Kensington Optical Elite mouse. It's got a
scroll wheel and five buttons (two front, two back, and the scroll
wheel button), but the best part about it is the programmable "chord
clicks." You actually have seven different actions you can program,
because clicking the front two buttons at the same time (or the back
two) is a completely different programmable option. The driver also
permits programming a separate set of these clicks for each
application. It works in OSX, OS9, and Windows, and it combined with
QuicKeys streamlines my workflow quite a bit.

It's still a corded mouse, but I'm sure their five-button wireless
varieties operate similarly.

-- 
Brad Beyenhof
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[Finale] OT - New toys (I mean, productivity aids!)

[Christopher Smith]

Ladies and gents of the list,
I just went out and splurged on two things I thought might help 
productivity, and I am so happy I am squirming in my seat like my 
nine-year-old son! I know this is not really Finale material, though 
this stuff really does help my Finale work.

One is a Logitech cordless optical mouse; the one I got is the Click 
Plus. Left and right main buttons, two thumb buttons, a scroll wheel 
that clicks too, and a smaller centre button, all assignable. Quite a 
change from the standard one button mouse that came with my Mac, though 
it worked quite well. The scroll wheel alone has changed my life. I am 
still working out what the most efficient use of the other buttons will 
be, but so far it is great, and I don't run over the mouse cable any 
more! Highly recommended, though I don't know yet about the battery 
life.

The other toy is a 20" Apple Cinema Display flat screen LCD monitor 
(the older model, meaning I don't need an adaptor for my older Mac, and 
bought at clearance price) replacing my venerable Sony Multiscan 17sf. 
Wow, the difference all that real estate makes is quite amazing, and it 
even seems zippier than my old monitor, even though it is running at 
over twice the number of pixels, and in millions of colours instead of 
thousands. It's like getting a new pair of glasses AND a desk that's 
twice as large, all in the same day!

Apparently if I get the next level up video card I will able to plug in 
both monitors at once and use one for tool palettes and the other for 
scores, or else spread a huge scroll view across two screens. That 
might be TOO much fun, though - after all, I AM supposed to be working.

Just wanted to share with my friends, not to gloat at all. I wonder if 
my music will actually be better from now on?  8-)

Gleefully,
Christopher
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