Re: [Finale] Thanks for your mail. My computer is going into the shop today, and I am away until Labor
Darcy James Argue / 2005/08/25 / 03:36 PM wrote: A volunteer job is still a job. You shouldn't volunteer for a job if you don't plan to actually fulfill your responsibilities. If someone is a volunteer firefighter in a small town, and yet never shows up at the scene of a fire, then they are not doing their job. Woa, this is uncalled for. If you don't like the way user group is, you are totally free to leave. That's the way user group works. I admin Mobile I/O list. The host is Virginia Tech who keeps the MailMan2 server running for us despite the constant DoS attach. User group list admin is totally thankless task. You can't make everyone happy, and that is the facts. On my list, I do not allow any OT post as well as name calling flame war and for-sale ad. There are quite few people upsets with how I run the list, but I have to draw a line to keep the archive useful. There are other user groups for OT subjects they can go to. And I do not allow posts regarding the list itself on my list. Since this list has given me many help, and also I appreciate occasional appearances of MM! personnel, I am trying to get used to hitting [Del] key softer when I see threads after threads of OT posts so my [Del] key doesn't come off again. I don't mind occasional OT posts those which can benefits to all the members, but when the thread goes on and on like this one, I am trying to learn how to ignore it. -- - Hiro Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA http://a-no-ne.com http://anonemusic.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Thanks for your mail. My computer is going into the shop today, and I am away until Labor
Well, look, it's been going on for like a month. Maybe more. A week, ok, so the list moderator is busy. Two weeksOk, maybe he's on vacation. Three weeksok, must be a good vacation. A month..damn good vacation. Five weeksum*tap tap* anyone home? Seriously, I think Darcy is right. If you ain't going to do the job, give it to someone else. Or if you are going to be gone, let someone else do the Job. Of course, this Berklee instructor McGann or whatever is a total [EMAIL PROTECTED] for never checking his email and allowing this to happen in the first place. A-NO-NE Music wrote: Darcy James Argue / 2005/08/25 / 03:36 PM wrote: A volunteer job is still a job. You shouldn't volunteer for a job if you don't plan to actually fulfill your responsibilities. If someone is a volunteer firefighter in a small town, and yet never shows up at the scene of a fire, then they are not doing their job. Woa, this is uncalled for. If you don't like the way user group is, you are totally free to leave. That's the way user group works. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Thanks for your mail. My computer is going into the shop today, and I am away until Labor
Eric Dannewitz wrote: Well, look, it's been going on for like a month. Maybe more. A week, ok, so the list moderator is busy. Two weeksOk, maybe he's on vacation. Three weeksok, must be a good vacation. A month..damn good vacation. Five weeksum*tap tap* anyone home? Seriously, I think Darcy is right. If you ain't going to do the job, give it to someone else. Or if you are going to be gone, let someone else do the Job. Of course, this Berklee instructor McGann or whatever is a total [EMAIL PROTECTED] for never checking his email and allowing this to happen in the first place. Lighten up on Henry. Maybe he is doing his job just the way he sees it should be done, and perhaps you and Darcy are just on the wrong list. If you want a list moderator who looks at every message and approves it before it is posted so you don't have to hit the delete key, then perhaps you and Darcy should go start one. It will be interesting to see how many members of this list jump ship with you. There already is a yahoogroups Finale list with perhaps a dozen of the same people as are on this list. The level of discourse is much quieter over there. Maybe you'd like it better. You have definitely gotten your money's worth out of this list and Henry's efforts, and I think you are being very ungrateful to expect that Henry should jump every time you don't like something that happens on the list. Just look at your last invoice and see exactly what you have been paying Henry for. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Thanks for your mail. My computer is going into the shop today, and I am away until Labor
On 26 Aug 2005 at 15:13, dhbailey wrote: Lighten up on Henry. Maybe he is doing his job just the way he sees it should be done, and perhaps you and Darcy are just on the wrong list. If you want a list moderator who looks at every message and approves it before it is posted so you don't have to hit the delete key, When you're happy to reduce it to the most absurd alternatives, this is the kind of answer you come up with. Proper management of an *unmoderated* list (which this is) involves unsubscribing users who are polluting the list, and changing list settings sensibly. Henry is doing neither of these things in the last month or so, and this makes the list less easy to use. If rectifying these two problems were in some way difficult, there'd be no grounds for complaints, but both problems can be quite easily fixed with about 5 minutes of the list owner's time. Registering dissatisfaction with that neglect of responsibility does not imply that one would prefer a moderated list -- it's intellectually dishonest to even introduce that as a response to the complaints about what looks like dereliction of duty to many of us. Furtunately, I am not bothered to any significant degree by either of the problems. My email client makes it extremely easy for me to selectively reply to any one or any arbitrary combination of addresses in the header of the list posting I'm replying to, so I have no problem with the bad Reply-To. I also don't see much problem with the 2 or 3 autoresponses per day from the moron who went on vacation (I don't find autoresponders useful for real people -- if someone's not there, I don't need a response to every message I send to them telling me so; a smart autoresponder would only send one such message to each address, but there doesn't seem to be such a thing), as he's on Digest. But if he were subscribed to the whole list, it would be a *very* bad problem. So, in this case, the damage from Henry's neglect is minimal (though the Reply-To is pretty inconvenient for those with email clients that don't make it easy to pick which addresses you want to reply to), but it is, nonetheless, still neglect of his responsibilities. It's pretty consistent with past history, though, as it took months for Henry to fix the original Reply-To behavior (which we are now back to) after the list migrated to Mailman. I complained about that back then and was roundly condemned for it. It's nice to see now that I'm not the only one who thinks things are not being terribly well- managed. -- David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Thanks for your mail. My computer is going into the shop today, and I am away until Labor
Start another list and miss great comments like this one? And miss your great insights? Compared to other lists, this moderator is MIA. That is all we are saying. If he could not devote time in the last month, month and a half this McGann email thing has been going on, then..why is he doing it? Why not get someone else to take up the slack. I'm not asking for EVERY email to be looked at, but some sort of attention to what is going on would be nice. I'm on the right list. I just am sick of seeing some choad's away message. It's like SPAM. Would you have the same attitude towards this Henry if we had PORN ads showing up on the list? And the moderator was MIA again? Would you be getting what you are paying for? dhbailey wrote: Lighten up on Henry. Maybe he is doing his job just the way he sees it should be done, and perhaps you and Darcy are just on the wrong list. If you want a list moderator who looks at every message and approves it before it is posted so you don't have to hit the delete key, then perhaps you and Darcy should go start one. It will be interesting to see how many members of this list jump ship with you. There already is a yahoogroups Finale list with perhaps a dozen of the same people as are on this list. The level of discourse is much quieter over there. Maybe you'd like it better. You have definitely gotten your money's worth out of this list and Henry's efforts, and I think you are being very ungrateful to expect that Henry should jump every time you don't like something that happens on the list. Just look at your last invoice and see exactly what you have been paying Henry for. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Thanks for your mail. My computer is going into the shop today, and I am away until Labor
This guy needs to be publicly flogged! John McGann wrote: Thanks for your mail. My computer is going into the shop today, and I am away until Labor Day. I will try to check my email/phone periodically...if you have sent an mp3 for evaluation, it will take place after Labor Day (Sept. 5th). If you are a Berklee student looking for an ensemble waiver, I will attend to that the first week of September as well. Thank you for your patience! You may need to resend your email after Sept. 4th. Thanks again. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Thanks for your mail. My computer is going into the shop today, and I am away until Labor
On 25 Aug 2005, at 1:22 PM, Eric Dannewitz wrote: This guy needs to be publicly flogged! It wouldn't be a problem if the list owner was doing his job. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Thanks for your mail. My computer is going into the shop today, and I am away until Labor
Wait, there is a list owner Man, I think BOTH of them need to be flogged. Darcy James Argue wrote: On 25 Aug 2005, at 1:22 PM, Eric Dannewitz wrote: This guy needs to be publicly flogged! It wouldn't be a problem if the list owner was doing his job. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Thanks for your mail. My computer is going into the shop today, and I am away until Labor
Darcy James Argue wrote: On 25 Aug 2005, at 1:22 PM, Eric Dannewitz wrote: This guy needs to be publicly flogged! It wouldn't be a problem if the list owner was doing his job. He has a job? I don't recall ever paying him anything. Have you paid him? He does it as a labor of love, and if he happens to be away on vacation, so be it. Maybe his computer's in the shop and he's away until Labor Day, too. But I don't think he gets paid for this list. It's not really a job. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Thanks for your mail. My computer is going into the shop today, and I am away until Labor
A volunteer job is still a job. You shouldn't volunteer for a job if you don't plan to actually fulfill your responsibilities. If someone is a volunteer firefighter in a small town, and yet never shows up at the scene of a fire, then they are not doing their job. If Henry's on vacation, well, there are many people on this list with experience with Mailman software. How hard would it have been to contact one of them with the admin password and say, Would you mind keeping an eye on the list while I'm away? Also, if you know you're going away for a while, and nobody's minding the shop while you're gone, why on earth would you make a major change like modifying the Reply-To behavior *immediately* before you depart, so that we're all stuck with it for weeks? - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 25 Aug 2005, at 2:51 PM, dhbailey wrote: Darcy James Argue wrote: On 25 Aug 2005, at 1:22 PM, Eric Dannewitz wrote: This guy needs to be publicly flogged! It wouldn't be a problem if the list owner was doing his job. He has a job? I don't recall ever paying him anything. Have you paid him? He does it as a labor of love, and if he happens to be away on vacation, so be it. Maybe his computer's in the shop and he's away until Labor Day, too. But I don't think he gets paid for this list. It's not really a job. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Thanks for your mail. My computer is going into the shop today, and I am away until Labor
On Thu, August 25, 2005 2:51 pm, dhbailey said: He does it as a labor of love, and if he happens to be away on vacation, so be it. I don't agree with you. When you agree to moderate a list, that comes with certain responsibilities, one of which is being available to handle issues like this. Henry has a right to go on vacation, of course, but then he should designate someone to moderate in his absence. Also, in years past Henry has publicly asked the listmembers to let his employers at SHSU know the value of his efforts in making the list available, since I gather that extra-curriculars like this have some effect on his position there. Though I think it's been a couple of years since he's done this. Aaron. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Thanks for your mail. My computer is going into the shop today, and I am away until Labor
At 02:38 PM 08/25/2005, Darcy James Argue wrote: It wouldn't be a problem if the list owner was doing his job. I'm guessing Henry is on vacation or something, since he hasn't responded to anything in a couple of weeks. But that's why one ought to designate an alternate moderator when one is going to be out of reach for a while. Aaron. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Thanks for your mail. My computer is going into the shop today, and I am away until Labor
Exactly. Take a look at the Flute list sometime. They totally clamp down on everything there. It's a labor of love, but there are like 4 moderators. They don't allow this sort of thing to continue. Of course, Mr. McGann or whatever is equally at fault for being so rude for allowing this to continue to happen. I'd expect a little more from a professor..but whateverI wonder if he actually checked his email during this...probably not. Aaron Sherber wrote: I don't agree with you. When you agree to moderate a list, that comes with certain responsibilities, one of which is being available to handle issues like this. Henry has a right to go on vacation, of course, but then he should designate someone to moderate in his absence. Also, in years past Henry has publicly asked the listmembers to let his employers at SHSU know the value of his efforts in making the list available, since I gather that extra-curriculars like this have some effect on his position there. Though I think it's been a couple of years since he's done this. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Thanks for your mail. My computer is going into the shop today, and I am away until Labor
Indeed! Well, with the lack luster Finale 2006 update, performance issues with it, and bugs, I suppose we need something to talk about on the list. ;-) Darcy James Argue wrote: A volunteer job is still a job. You shouldn't volunteer for a job if you don't plan to actually fulfill your responsibilities. If someone is a volunteer firefighter in a small town, and yet never shows up at the scene of a fire, then they are not doing their job. If Henry's on vacation, well, there are many people on this list with experience with Mailman software. How hard would it have been to contact one of them with the admin password and say, Would you mind keeping an eye on the list while I'm away? Also, if you know you're going away for a while, and nobody's minding the shop while you're gone, why on earth would you make a major change like modifying the Reply-To behavior *immediately* before you depart, so that we're all stuck with it for weeks? - Darcy ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Thanks for your mail. My computer is going into the shop today, and I am away until Labor
Aaron Sherber wrote: On Thu, August 25, 2005 2:51 pm, dhbailey said: He does it as a labor of love, and if he happens to be away on vacation, so be it. I don't agree with you. When you agree to moderate a list, that comes with certain responsibilities, one of which is being available to handle issues like this. I would suggest that there is a differrence between moderating a list, and hosting it, in that the former implies some effort to monitor content and keep posts on topic, while former is more on the order of sure, I'll provide the facilities for what you wish to do. I understand this to be an unmoderated list, and Henry's role to be a host, rather than a moderator. Henry has a right to go on vacation, of course, but then he should designate someone to moderate in his absence. Also, in years past Henry has publicly asked the listmembers to let his employers at SHSU know the value of his efforts in making the list available, since I gather that extra-curriculars like this have some effect on his position there. Though I think it's been a couple of years since he's done this. I suspect, more than any value to his position at SHSU, the request to let listmembers know of the value of the list is so that his employers will continue to devote the bandwidth and disk space to allow it to be hosted. If you want a moderated list (and I don't I frankly appreciate the occasional forays into Schenkerian analysis and other arcane, tangential and off topic posts, besides on the whole each of us does a pretty good job of maintining out own discipline), there are a number of options available, but I suspect Henry is not going to be willing to be the moderator, and as a state school in Texas, where there is already a signficiant budget crunch, the University may well not agree to let an outsider moderate, either. I would note, that although I once considered purchase of a Ricoh 2610, I did not follow through; and as a WIN user, I have little interest in MAC OS issues, even if they do pertain to Finale. The number of posts in the past week on other issues of little interest to me far outweigh the one or two posts a day from a fellow who neglected to go nomail when he sent his computer to the byte ward. Consider this: the nibbles we deal with by deleting his one message a day is little compared to the byte he's going to feel at the time he pays the bill. ns ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Thanks for your mail. My computer is going into the shop today, and I am away until Labor
At 06:22 PM 08/25/2005, Noel Stoutenburg wrote: sure, I'll provide the facilities for what you wish to do. I understand this to be an unmoderated list, and Henry's role to be a host, rather than a moderator. While individual posts are not moderated, every list must have an owner, or administrator, or moderator, and that's Henry. He's the only one who can do things like change list settings and temporarily unsub thoughtless subscribers with misbehaving autoresponders. I suspect, more than any value to his position at SHSU, the request to let listmembers know of the value of the list is so that his employers will continue to devote the bandwidth and disk space to allow it to be hosted. That was not the impression I got from Henry's requests, though I could be wrong. MAC OS issues, even if they do pertain to Finale. The number of posts in the past week on other issues of little interest to me far outweigh the one or two posts a day from a fellow who neglected to go nomail when he sent his computer to the byte ward. I agree that it's not that big a deal. But it is something that a moderator (or owner, or administrator...) should take care of, and it also came directly on the heels of Henry changing the list settings (without telling anyone) and then immediately leaving for vacation. Aaron. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Thanks for your mail. My computer is going into the shop today, and I am away until Labor
I am guessing that Henry is on sabbatical. He used to nix this stuff quickly. Also, one of the best reasons for working at Autodesk. A sabbatical every 4 years. At 8/19/2005 01:13 PM, John McGann wrote: Thanks for your mail. My computer is going into the shop today, and I am away until Labor Day. I will try to check my email/phone periodically...if you have sent an mp3 for evaluation, it will take place after Labor Day (Sept. 5th). If you are a Berklee student looking for an ensemble waiver, I will attend to that the first week of September as well. Thank you for your patience! ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Phil Daley AutoDesk http://www.conknet.com/~p_daley ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
