Questions 4-H Leaders ? Anyone?
This message is from: Catherine Lassesen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Is anyone on this list a 4-H Leader? Specially with HORSE and PONY? If so, PLEASE let me know. I have a few questions about what your state does or does not do. Thanks! Catherine Lassesen 4-H Leader in one state for 5 years, now just getting started in Oregon and finding the system VERY different.
Re: the best?
This message is from: Jean Gayle [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ruthie, Ha ha that husband of yours knows where his bread is buttered. Jean Jean Gayle Aberdeen, WA [Authoress of The Colonel's Daughter Occupied Germany 1946 TO 1949 ] http://www.techline.com/~jgayle Barnes Noble Book Stores
Re: Steve's Question a Challenge
This message is from: Jean Gayle [EMAIL PROTECTED] Paula re the testing, sounds very interesting. My present fellow does not trip, but since it is dark I must look tomorrow and see if the shoulder is correct or not and compare it to my Howdie who was a great ride but tripped if one was not watchful. Jean Gayle Aberdeen, WA [Authoress of The Colonel's Daughter Occupied Germany 1946 TO 1949 ] http://www.techline.com/~jgayle Barnes Noble Book Stores
Re: Tripping
This message is from: Sarah Vogeley [EMAIL PROTECTED] Interesting! I wouldn't think of that myself! I would love to see an online photo of your driving Fjord if you have one. Thanks for sharing your experience. _ Sarah Vogeley New Forest Farm Charlottesville, VA -- From: John and Martie Bolinski [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com Subject: Re: Tripping Date: Tue, Jan 11, 2000, 9:31 AM kept working him slowly until he refound his balance without leaning on the check.I never realized he was using his check to balance himself!
Re: the best?
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Pat, I have my flame suit on and I am not voting! I think that is just asking for a lot of hard feelings! Regards, Bernadine Karns
tripping
This message is from: Larson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Re: tripping ~ have to agree with Jean on this one. Fjords, at least mine, seems heaven made for a wild horse hoof trim. Works wonders on their carriage, tripping, etc.
Re: Steve's Question a Challenge
This message is from: Teressa Kandianis [EMAIL PROTECTED] So explain to a novice how to measure the angle of a shoulder? Thx Teressa
Re: Tripping
This message is from: John and Martie Bolinski [EMAIL PROTECTED] RE tripping - I noticed that Kilar (not a tripper when I bought him and first started driving) developed an uneven way of going and tripped quite a bit when I first started driving without his side check. I worried quite a bit that something was wrong with him, but at the urging of my trainer, kept working him slowly until he refound his balance without leaning on the check. Once again he is doing great in harness. Have not ridden since the tripping started - not because of the tripping, just because of the time factor. If I have some time I'd rather drive. I never realized he was using his check to balance himself! And that after spending $$$ to have his feet retrimmed and everything. Martie and Kilar in MD Sarah Vogeley wrote: This message is from: Sarah Vogeley [EMAIL PROTECTED] Meredith; Yes, I would tend to agree that conformational tendancy to trip is a bad thing to breeding into any horse used for any purpose. I will pay particular attention to this when I look for my first Fjord for driving! Thanks, _ Sarah Vogeley New Forest Farm Charlottesville, VA
Re: the best?
This message is from: Bushnell's [EMAIL PROTECTED] At 02:54 PM 01/10/2000 -0700, you wrote: This message is from: Bushnell's [EMAIL PROTECTED] At 03:47 PM 01/10/2000 -0600, you wrote: This message is from: Pat [EMAIL PROTECTED] I have something to throw out to all of you. With the end of the century and all that, how about: If the NFHR were to award a horse of the century in the Fjord world, who would you vote for? If they had an award for most outstanding breeder or influential person in the Fjord world, who would you vote for? `` Gene just got home and read my letter and he didn't agree with my earlier choices! =( I asked him what his choices would have been and he said Bushwhacker's Honi (and Bushwhacker's Dutchman, a close second) and his favorite Breeders are Bushwhacker's Fjords. H, somewhat immodest I'd say! =) Ruthie, NW MT
Steve's Question a Challenge
This message is from: Paula Steinmetz [EMAIL PROTECTED] This message is from: Steve McIlree [EMAIL PROTECTED] . One fellow in the Morgan camp who is an engineer has done an in-depth analysis of the structure of the horses illustrated in the old woodcuts, and claims that the angle of the shoulder is very important to the versatility of the breed. My point in all this discussion is that I find myself wondering where Rosendalsborken's shoulder and neck are in the modern Fjord? They have been lost for the most part I'd venture to say. My own belief is that the slope of shoulder is strongly correlated to the incidence of tripping, stumbling, etc., which impacts suitability to riding and, by extension, to versatility. One of my Swedish warmblood mares had a very correct shoulder (the much desired sloping 45 degree angle) in addition to overall balanced conformation. She received the highest rating possible, a premium rating, from the Swedish Evaluators when they were in the US in 1992. This mare DID NOT trip. Nor did the other horses I've owned (purchased or bred with this important confirmational feature in mind). It's been my observation that good shoulders and tripping don't happen together. All else being equal, of course - that the horse is in good health and properly shod. My weegie gelding with the straight shoulder trips (really shouldn't have bought him, but those eyes!); the other one with the more correct shoulder seldom does. One is (I hate to say this!) the draft type; one is the riding type. Guess which one has the straight shoulder and trips? By similar mathematics to what Steve's engineer friend did with the structural analysis, the relationship between tripping and slope of shoulder could be proved - or disproved. With two pieces of data for each gait - the shoulder angle and the number of trips over a measured distance (say, a flat 1/8 mile?), this data could be statistically analyzed to determine if there is a probable relationship between slope of shoulder and tripping. Anybody up to doing some tests? We'd need at least a hundred (maybe over a year's time?) for each gait being analyzed. I'll do the math, if you readers supply the data.
Re: Oops, tripping, etc.
This message is from: Starfire Farm, LLC [EMAIL PROTECTED] Alison Barr wrote: Do we really need to breed for riding? It seems to me that they are already there! We have several sizes and shapes of fjords at our farm at the moment. A few are built uphill, have withers (good for holding the saddle on) have beautiful, but not extravagant trots, and have no problem cantering. One gelding, which I would say is leaning towards the draft type, is very tall (at least 15.1h) but incredibly athletic. He's beautiful to watch both at the trot and the canter. As for fjord type, there's no question that he's a fjord. The only thing I would change about him is that he has a relatively small eye and a coarse head (something I've seen in a number of draft type fjords.) We also have a couple of mares who are unquestionably fjord type, but are not as uphill as the males mentioned earlier. Interestingly enough, these horses tend to trip more and have a bit more trouble with the canter. They are athletic, but it's just not as easy for them to get their forehands off the ground. Good riding type horses should have withers and should be built slightly uphill to allow for a good saddle fit, and to make the ride more comfortable. That doesn't mean that you have to change the type! Good conversation! Keep it up! Beth -- Beth Beymer Sandy North Starfire Farm, Berthoud CO www.starfirefarm.com
Re: not a list with only one topic.....been there, no thanks
This message is from: cnielsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] I agree with you Lisa,I have lived with and worked with all kinds of critters all my life(horses, dogs, cats, steers, hogs-(up to 75 at one time), ostrich, penguin, swans ,cranes and now a llama, 4 dogs 3 cats and 6 horses- they always seem to find a way to my door-I love them all and I love to hear about everyone's ventures with them so everyone please don't stop telling us about your furry little friends. thanks, Randi in cool and damp Wisc. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2000 9:49 PM Subject: not a list with only one topic.been there, no thanks This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 00-01-08 09:08:00 EST, you write: Is it possible when the headings for the site come up to highlite one and go directly to it. Real it, then go on without having to scroll through all the sheep stuff (this is a fjord site Du!) With all the high tec stuff out there now you would think this could be done! We do enjoy the site and some of the info is great. Well, its a site for Fjord PEOPLE to talk, about our lives, with these horses, along with any other interesting ( or not ) stuff..like harness, wagons, training, dogs, kids, losses, shows, spinning, feed, hay prices, saddles, sheep, and any other sort of stuff that crosses our livesglad you find some of it informative. The rest is what I love VBG.Lisa Pedersen ( and its DUH, by the way )
Re: the best?
This message is from: GAIL RUSSELL [EMAIL PROTECTED] I might pick the Anita and Orville Unrau. Anvil's horses, either those they bred or imported are everywhere in the west and midwest - and they are some pretty nice horses. They too, chose athletic horses and are careful about temperament as well. If you watch the pedigrees of the horses on the list, you will see their horses over and over again. And of course I would have to say outstanding breeder is Carol and Arthur Rivoire who are, clearly, pacesetters and achievers. Taking into consideration also the contribution of Carol's book about Fjords; the only book actually. Then again, locally, I would choose Chip Lamb of Quad-L's Fjord Farm because of his great heart for the Fjords. I would love to hear what others say. Ruthie Gail Russell Forestville CA [EMAIL PROTECTED] Clicker List Web Site : http://clickryder.cjb.net
Re: the best?
This message is from: Bushnell's [EMAIL PROTECTED] At 03:47 PM 01/10/2000 -0600, you wrote: This message is from: Pat [EMAIL PROTECTED] I have something to throw out to all of you. With the end of the century and all that, how about: If the NFHR were to award a horse of the century in the Fjord world, who would you vote for? If they had an award for most outstanding breeder or influential person in the Fjord world, who would you vote for? `` Those are very interesting questions! Why did I immediately think of conformation... h?... Kanada King. (I do like the Kanada in front of King too) There's something about his conformation that is positively gripping. (I've never seen him in person but he has captured my eye). Of course I'm comparatively new to the Fjord world so couldn't make a knowledgeable choice and probably should base the choice on other factors as well. While my eye chooses him, my heart would pick Rusten, gosh, who can say! =)) And of course I would have to say outstanding breeder is Carol and Arthur Rivoire who are, clearly, pacesetters and achievers. Taking into consideration also the contribution of Carol's book about Fjords; the only book actually. Then again, locally, I would choose Chip Lamb of Quad-L's Fjord Farm because of his great heart for the Fjords. I would love to hear what others say. Ruthie
Re: stumbling age
This message is from: Pat [EMAIL PROTECTED] My son Todd started walking when he was nine months and fell for six, he would fall like a tree, not putting his hands out to catch himself, I was such a hiper first time Mom I would follow him with pillows and when he stopped lay them all over the floor, untill my husband mentioned that was probably what was making him fall. This has nothing to do w ith the horses, its a slow day and I was remembering. . I recall teenage brothers that weren't too graceful when they were growing up quickly. I was hoping it was just age, and it seems to have been.
the best?
This message is from: Pat [EMAIL PROTECTED] I have something to throw out to all of you. With the end of the century and all that, how about: If the NFHR were to award a horse of the century in the Fjord world, who would you vote for? If they had an award for most outstanding breeder or influential person in the Fjord world, who would you vote for? Oh, and when everyone was talking about people going to high levels on Fjords, Anne in dressage, Vivian in combined trainingwhat about Gene Bauer and Sue Keating in pleasure driving, I think they won Walnut Hill many times over and thats a pretty high class show.
Re: Fw: Minnesota Dictionary
This message is from: Jean Gayle [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hahahahaha! Micro chip etc. Hilarious. Sent it to the bigwigs at Weyerheauser Jean Gayle Aberdeen, WA [Authoress of The Colonel's Daughter Occupied Germany 1946 TO 1949 ] http://www.techline.com/~jgayle Barnes Noble Book Stores
Re: stumbling age
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] My 4 1/2-year-old mare, Riba, stumbled when she was 3, but she doesn't now. Ida, who is almost 4, never stumbled. I recall teenage brothers that weren't too graceful when they were growing up quickly. I was hoping it was just age, and it seems to have been.
Re: Tripping
This message is from: Jean Gayle [EMAIL PROTECTED] Pat, my boy who tripped had the loveliest trot imaginable. Leg yields, on the bit etc. I could sit-trot him all day. When he would canter it was rocking chair, so not all are downhill. I think narrow chests have a bit to do with it and probably not anyone thing. Jean Jean Gayle Aberdeen, WA [Authoress of The Colonel's Daughter Occupied Germany 1946 TO 1949 ] http://www.techline.com/~jgayle Barnes Noble Book Stores
Re: Rosendalsborken
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Steve, Your image of Rosendalsborken looks very much like the stallion I saw from Germany last year, Ohlsen, who by the way was very good at dressage Elaine Olsen
Fw: Fw: Minnesota Dictionary
This message is from: Bushnell's [EMAIL PROTECTED] term is followed by Ole's definition. 1. Log On: Making da voodstove hotter. 2. Log Off: Vood rolled out of do voodstove. 3. Monitor: Keeping an eye on da voodstove. 4. Megahertz: Ven ya drop da log on yer foot. 5. Floppy Disc: Vhat ya get from stacking too much vood. 6. Ram: He keeps da rest of da sheep content. 7. Drive: Vhat ya hate to do ven da roads are icy. 8. Prompt: Vhat ya vish da mailman vas in da vinter. 9. Enter: Vell come on in den! 10. Windows: Vhat ya shut ven it snows. 11. Screen: Vhat keeps da skeeters out of da house. 12. Memory Chip: Someting good vit dip. 13. Microchip: Vhat is left at da bottom of da chip bag. 14. Modem: Vhat ya did to da hay fields last summer. 15. Dot Matrix: Married to Iver Matrix. 16. Laptop: Ver ya set yer grandkids. 17. Keyboard: Ver da missus hangs her keys, den she can't find dem. 18. Software: Da plastic picnic utensils. 18. Mouse: Vhat leaves dem little turds in da cupboard. 19. Mainframe: Vhat holds da roof up. 20. Port: Ver da lutefisk fisherman park da boats.
Re: Tripping
This message is from: Pat [EMAIL PROTECTED] I am not a breeder yet, but there is only one thing I know of that could cause widespread co-ordination problems within a breed that is reknown worldwide for nimbleness and good movement - bad breeders. I totally agree..the one mare that seemed to have a major tripping problem for me was built very heavy on the front end, her shoulder was short and steep and she had very short pasterns with no anglestanding still she leaned forward. Obviously her stride was short and choppy, uncomfortable to ride. I did not choose this mare, she was not kept as a broodmare, in my opinion she, as they say in the dog world..pet quality. She was sweet, calm and trusting..if spaying wasn't so expensive, she would have been,when she drove she did not trip as much. I think the breast plate kept her up : ) Pat
Re: Q about fjords
This message is from: Pat [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dear Jessi, I can only speak for Green Valley Farm, perhaps I can give you an idea: Right now I have a four yr old gelding that rides, lunges by voice command and ground drives, has all ground manners, draft in frame (stocky) 13-3 selling for $4,500.00 We own the dam and sire. His sire was imported from Norway. He is home raised. Now on the other end:Our top selling horse right now is a five year old mare, imported from Holland as a yearling. she hold a blue level in conformation in the American Evaluation system, she was Reserve Champion mare at the 1998 Midwest Fjord show and Grand Champion Mare at the 1999 Midwest Fjord show, she rides (intro dressage) and drives, participated in four driving shows last year and two clinics, she represented the breed at the Midwest Horse fair in Madison, Wi. She is 15 hands and very lady like. She is by the stallion DRAGESET, an ELITE stallion in Holland who is now deceased. There are only two other mares in the United States by Drageset. She is out of the mare Jasjmin a ster mare in Holland. Her name is Parabel. She is calm by nature and after a short time at shows she was then shown by my owner an amateur, she is trustworthy. She is priced at $16,000.00 because she is worth it! With her bloodlines and show record her foals will have a higher value. Another imported five year old mare with no show record, rides and I just started her to a cart is by the preferente stallion Heimann and out of the mare Hilona by Drageset. Heimann has four generations of first premium influx. Penny is small 13-3, ...has a nice long stride, we are currently getting her ready for our 2000 evaluation and will be shown until sold. She is priced at $13,000. We also have a two year old filly, coming three half sister to the Parabel mare (out of the same mare) priced at $10,000.00...she is imported, won her halter class at the Midwest Fjord show last year out of 17 horses, and we just put a saddle on her last week all of our horses lunge, ground drive, have ground manners, bath, clip, haul, farrier work,..etc. Handled everyday, rain or shine. Just to give you an idea. Hope I've helped Pat Holland, Mgr/Tr. Green Valley Farm. You can see us on our web site: greenvalleyfarm.com or go into the nfhr web site and link on to us! Good Luck! Jessi Wible wrote: Hi everyone, I hope you are all having a great day! Just out of curiosity, if I could ever afford another horse (not for YEARS!!!) how much could I expect to spend for a decent fjord? Trained vs. untrained, young vs. older? Thanks!!!
Upgrading our equepment
This message is from: Ron Sherrie Dayton [EMAIL PROTECTED] This message is for anyone looking for a nice Big Horse trailer, It's a 1996 Logan Competitor plus, four horse slant load with living quarters (not finished inside) many extras. 30 foot overall goose neck new condition. We are looking for an other model so we can rear load our team and side load the equipment. For price and other information, contact us on our E-Mail site at [EMAIL PROTECTED] Happy Trails RD
Foaling (was Re: Type and Other Issues)
This message is from: Lori Albrough [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cheryl Beillard wrote: Finally .. just wanted to say how comforting I found the references to easy foaling in fjords .. I've been reading Blessed are the Mares, . snip .. I can see myself camping out for weeks ahead of time, draped in towels, plastic gloves and surrounded by buckets of disinfectant, ropes, whatever. Cheryl I got a real chuckle out of your imagery, that's pretty much how I felt before we had our first foal (now I'm old hand at it - NOT!) I had chosen Dr. Karen Hayes book The Complete Book of Foaling to be my bible, and it does have a pretty complete section on dystocia let me tell you. Every evening I pored over all the way things could wrong and what I'd have to do. I was calm on the outside and inside scared to death. Anyhow Dr Hayes contention is that the most important thing you can do for your foaling mare is be there and, as other list-members have pointed out, that can sometimes be quite the challenge. In our case as we approached and then passed the due date I was duly going through the checklist of things to check several times daily, making notes and looking for trends. At the point I saw wax on her udder I figured we were almost there and set up hourly checks through the night. That only lasted one night (thank heavens) because the next evening I went out a 10:15 pm and she was standing as usual, with her head in the corner of the stall as usual but when I went in and bent over to look at her udder, SHE MOVED AWAY. She had never done that before, and we'd been through this routine so many times so I decided THIS MUST BE IT! Stefan was a bit dubious, but we installed ourselves in the tackroom with books, foaling kit, etc. About 10 minutes later we heard the straw rustling and then her pawing around. Then sploosh as the water broke and she layed down. At this point, according to the book, you have about 5 minutes to wash the mares genitals, put on a sterile sleeve, and put your hand in to check that the foal is not malpositioned. Well I didn't have time for any of that business because right after the sploosh out came a foot! And then another foot! And then a nose! I was so happy I was smiling all over my face. It was all going so great. And then SHE STOOD UP. About this event the book says some mares will foal standing up and you have to catch the foal and prevent it crashing to earth, no small feat with a huge slippery baby. Lay down mama I pleaded, and thank god, she did. I exhaled and started breathing again. Then SHE STOOD UP AGAIN! She walked around with the foals legs and nose sticking out and then layed down. I guess she was just getting comfy, but I grew a couple more grey hairs there. Then she pushed once, out came the head and neck, another push and the shoulders and torso came and this perfect little foal sat up, the amnion even broke itself so I really didn't have much to do that night. I couldn't believe how perfect and beautiful the foal looked, I guess I had expected it to be like human babies, all funny and squished-looking at first, but it was just gorgeous, wet and silky and floppy-eared. I cradled it in my arms and after a minute it tried to stand up. The book says to allow them to lie still for 5 to 10 minutes to let the last quart of blood flow into the foal, but I had to restrain this dynamo who was determined to be up in the first few seconds. Eventually the foal relaxed into my arms, so I guess that was our first imprint training exercise. At that point I realized I hadn't checked the gender yet, so I lifted the tail and IT'S A GIRL! Just what I wanted! Everything proceeded uneventfully after that, the foal got to her feet and delivery of the placenta happened right away, then I did a time check, it was 11:10pm, so if we hadn't noticed Cindy acting that little bit different we would have come back for the next hourly check to find the foal already up! Well now we're expecting 3 babies this spring, two from maiden mares, so I'm sure it will be interesting I have my fingers crossed that Mother Nature gives us as smooth of a ride as last time. I'm sure others have many interesting foaling stories to tell, for me that was my first foaling and what a great and exciting experience. Lori A.
Rosendalsborken
This message is from: Steve McIlree [EMAIL PROTECTED] The recent discussions of Rosendalsborken bring to mind similar discussions on Morgan lists. The AMHA has published modern pictures of the ideal Morgan stallion and mare, but they are based on woodcuts of historic horses. So, there are those who argue that even in the modern pictures there may be some exaggeration because of the 19th century basis. Now, one feature that engenders a great deal of discussion among Morgan folks, I see shared in the classic picture of Rosendalsborken. That feature is the angle of the shoulder and the way that the neck is set on the body. Morgan people who have horses with straighter shoulders argue that the laid back angle and upright neck are faults of the woodcuts. But you only need to look in the Morgan magazines to see many living examples of beautifully sloping shoulders with upright necks. To take this line of thought further, both the old Morgan and the Fjord developed as do anything all-purpose breeds. One fellow in the Morgan camp who is an engineer has done an in-depth analysis of the structure of the horses illustrated in the old woodcuts, and claims that the angle of the shoulder is very important to the versatility of the breed. My point in all this discussion is that I find myself wondering where Rosendalsborken's shoulder and neck are in the modern Fjord? Is this something that has been lost, or have I just not seen the right horses? Is the sloping shoulder and upright neck a desirable feature or not? What effects would Rosendalsborken's angle of shoulder and set of neck have on movement? I've been pondering these questions since last year's Evaluation seminar in Galena, and would like to hear what input others might have. BTW, I chose the classic cut of Rosendalsborken to highlight the header on every page of the list Web site. http://members.home.net/smcilree/ -- Steve McIlree -- Pferd Skipper -- Omaha, Nebraska, USA Noblest of the train that wait on man, the flight-performing horse. --William Cowper(1731-1800)
Re: Tripping
This message is from: Sarah Vogeley [EMAIL PROTECTED] Meredith; Yes, I would tend to agree that conformational tendancy to trip is a bad thing to breeding into any horse used for any purpose. I will pay particular attention to this when I look for my first Fjord for driving! Thanks, _ Sarah Vogeley New Forest Farm Charlottesville, VA
Re: Tripping
This message is from: Meredith Sessoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] This message is from: Sarah Vogeley [EMAIL PROTECTED] Though now that I am hearing other peoples' observations of other Fjords with similar tripping episodes, I am curious to know why this is? Since I have little direct contact with this breed, and I am trying to soak up as much information as possible, I would really like to hear opinions from breeders on this list. I am not a breeder yet, but there is only one thing I know of that could cause widespread co-ordination problems within a breed that is reknown worldwide for nimbleness and good movement - bad breeders. Meredith Sessoms Soddy-Daisy. Tennessee. USA Dorina NFR Aagot
Re: Tripping
This message is from: Lori Albrough [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sarah Vogeley wrote: I must admit, all the talk about Fjords tripping has me worried. Hi Sarah: I've never experienced tripping with any of my Fjords. Lori A.
