Re: trainers / fjords
This message is from: Mariposa Farm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > My hubby and I celebrated our 30th wedding anniversary today. Hey congratulations!!! Mark
Re: Question
This message is from: Marsha Jo Hannah <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Jean Ernest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > And maybe someone would mistake a Fjord mule for a pure Fjord? I guess it > is possible if they don't know the breed. And if that mule was less than > cooperative? I kind of doubt that anyone would mistake any kind of mule for any purebred horse. The ears are usually a give-away, as is the skimpy mane and tail, not to mention the voice. And, given what bad PR donkeys and mules tend to have, I can't imagine anyone blaming the Fjord for any mule's temperament! OTOH, given that the average horseman doesn't know the difference between an Icelandic and a Fjord My recollection of the "no mules" rule was that it came about after someone inquired about breeding Fjord zorses (zebra-X). Breeders of zebra hybrids see the Fjord's dun coloring as an excellent "canvas" on which to paint the zebra stripes. Fjord breeders were offended by the concept, so threw out the useful mules (horse x donkey) with the "designer equine" zorses. Neither is a threat to Fjord genetic purity, as the vast majority of the equine hybrids are sterile. And, given what I've heard about zebra temperaments, I doubt anyone would try to blame the Fjord for anything a zorse did, either! Hmmm, food for thought. Suppose it IS true that the Fjord temperament isn't "dominant" in the crosses. That might argue that the Fjord temperament is on a recessive gene---which means that having a Fjord with a good temperament requires that BOTH parents have good temperaments. So, maybe temperament ought to be a bigger chunk of what gets Evaluated? Marsha Jo HannahMurphy must have been a horseman-- [EMAIL PROTECTED] anything that can go wrong, will! 15 mi SW of Roseburg, Oregon
trainers / fjords
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] It is with interest that I read about trainers flat out refusing to work with fjords. Even my die-hard quarterhorse trainer (reining) was willing to give my fjord a try -- although, her patience may have worn thin!! I did not stay with her because I found someone else who enjoyed and had experience working with fjords. I wonder if some trainers just don't like the little bit of extra time it seems to take with fjords? Many fjords don't do much of anything very fast - plus, I find if I get impatient or "gruff" with any of my fjords they pout:):):) Today I brought my 7 month old "Hasse" into the round pen. He needs work leading. It was interesting to watch him process this task - try to "bully" me - then, realizing I was not going to give up until he walked nicely. He puts up a fuss -- but then accepts the situtation. I love to watch him learn:) Does anyone know of a driving trainer in NW area of MN? Within 100 miles of Fargo/Moorhead?? My hubby and I celebrated our 30th wedding anniversary today. My daughters asked him where my "diamond" was (30 yrs is pearl or diamonds)...he promptly said "your mom has 5 diarmonds out in the paddocks" :):):) Linda in MN no snow - temps near 40 - will be cooling off but no forecast of measurable snow
Re: Suggestions, please
This message is from: Jean Ernest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> DANCING WITH HORSES, by Klaus Ferdinand Hempfling. Both book and video, A SET CENTERED RIDING, and CENTERED RIDING 2. by Sally Swift TRUE HORSEMANSHIP THROUGH FEEL, by Billl Dorrance and Leslie Desmond LOVE, MIRACLES AND ANIMAL HEALING by Allen M Schoen, D.V.M. and Pam Proctor FOR THE GOOD OF THE HORSE and FOR THE GOOD OF THE RIDER by mary Wanless CROSS TRAIN YOUR HORSE, Book One MORE CROSS TRAININ, Book two by Jane Savoie RESISTANCE FREE RIDING by Richard Shrake Books by Cherry Hill: MAXIMUM HOOF POWER MAKING NOT BREAKING HORSEKEEPING ON A SMALL ACREAGE BECOMING AN EFFECTIVE RIDER THE FORMATIVE YEARS I havewa lot more, but here is a start! Jean in Fairbanks, ALaska, -20, lower toninght! >I would really appreciate input on titles of any equine books or videos any >of you might recommend so we can put these items on the site. Jean Ernest Fairbanks, Alaska mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
affect of crossbred on purebred
This message is from: Janet McNally <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Deb asked: >If a Fjord stallion was bred to another breed that Fjord stallion doesn't >upset the applecart as far as "pure-bred" Fjords are concerned. >However is a Fjord mare is bred to another breed she is now violated, so to >speak, and has ruined her "pure-bred" line? Hi Deb, Breeding a purebred mare or purebred stallion to another breed, will produce a crossbred from that mating, but has no impact on the future offspring what so ever. Each pregnancy is a separate event, and genetically has no bearing on the future foals. So a mare can produce a crossbred foal one year, and as long as she is bred back to a purebred stallion the next year, her offspring will be as purebred as any other. The reason stallions are favored in outcrossing programs is because generally, they are underemployed, and using them thus does not detract from the number of purebred foals produced which is important with a breed that has limited numbers. OTOH you would not wish to use your best purebred mares (of a rare breed) to produce crossbred offspring, they should be busy raising purebred foals. The only way crossbreeding presents a threat to the purity of the Fjord horse breed, is if someone tries to register a crossbred foal as a purebred. It is not the existance of the crossbred that is the threat, it is the potential someone might try to decieve another person, and pass the crossbred off as a purebred. That can happen no matter what the rules are. Only DNA can tell the truth. Janet W McNally
Suggestion to list and NFHR BOD
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 12/29/2002 12:48:35 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > What we need are factual statistics. How many crossbreed? What are Fjords > crossed with? What is the end product of these crosses? What is their > temperament like? What is their general appearance? What purpose to they > serve? Etc., etc. > > What do you all think? > > Lynda Sounds like a wonderful idea, but how can people volunteer the information without incurring the penalties of the NFHR for crossbreeding? Perhaps an anonymous survey. But I agree that it would be a good idea to find out if the temperament thing is an issue with crossing Fjords. Partially out of curiosity, partially becuase it could prevent people from this cross if it was something that was shown to consistently not improve the temper of the non-Fjord parent. Shawna
re: the economy and horse sales
This message is from: Janet McNally <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Thankyou Pamela and Mike for such worthy ideas. sure hope people consider them. Janet
fjord reputation
This message is from: Janet McNally <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> someone wrote: >He responded that he found them to be stubborn, > unpredictable and prone to being run-aways. This opinion he > admitted, had been developed from his experience with Finn's crosses > rather than real Fjords. Before I bought my fjords, I had 3 different farriers, and two other people try to talk me out of the idea. I was told they were stubborn, hard mouthed, and were bad with their feet. They also all agreed that Fjords were wonderfully people oriented horses, just a pain to handle. One local trainer turned down the prospects of training a Fjord for us. I heard about the team that ran away at the annual draft horse event... a pair of fjords. With over 75 other breed teams in attendance, that sure does not help that the only Fjord team ran off, especially when the story endures from one year to the next.These people were speaking of purebred Fjords, not crossbreds. I have yet to know about a crossbred actually, other than what I've read about on this list. Now that I've been Fjord shopping, I found that a lot of fjords have been trained once upon a time, then turned out to pasture for years. While the generous nature of a fjord will let an experienced person get away with this, the novice horse owner might be decieved about the training needs of those big quiet Fjords. I have also found though, that the Fjord -is- different with its personal space (i.e. will crawl into your lap for a hug), and require different methods than my light horses did. They also do not seem to feel pain like other breeds, and rightly so, as you would not want a farm work horse to be sensitive about things banging or dangling around them. That is how you avoid a wreck when they step over the traces, or something comes undone. What would have sent my TWH's into orbit is scarcely noted by my Fjords, and I find myself changing how I work around them. Primarily, I constantly remind them to stay out of my space. Something I never had to think about with a TWH. I'm still learning. I've concluded that the reason those 5 people had a negative experience was because they were working with scarcely or un trained Fjords and did not recognize how green they were, perhaps because they were so uncommonly quiet and freindly. Janet W McNally
Suggestions, please
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello everyone, Amazon.com will give the UEF 5% off of any sales originating from the UEF site, which is great news for us as we are trying to figure out various ways to fund raise! I would really appreciate input on titles of any equine books or videos any of you might recommend so we can put these items on the site. Thanks much! Lynda C. Welch [EMAIL PROTECTED] Vice President, Norwegian Fjord Representative For donations to save a Fjord, please visit PayPal.com and enter [EMAIL PROTECTED] United Equine Foundation http://www.unitedequinefoundation.org/homepage.htm Lynda and Daniel Bailey's Norwegian Fjords Quality Fjords--Equine Transportation--Hand-braided Tack & Accessories White Cloud, MI 231-689-9902 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://hometown.aol.com/baileysfjords/
Re: Question
This message is from: Jean Ernest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> OK, I gotta admit that it could happen to GUPPIES! LOL! One male guppy can breed with a female guppy just once, and she can have any number of "litters" of young using the stored sperm from this one mating. So I guess if a person studied guppies they might get the wrong idea. To get serious, I think that the greatest danger in crossbreeding, since we have the safeguards of DNA testing, etc. is exactly what Steve McIlree mentioned about Bill Long's experience with Fjord Crosses. If a cross produces a horse that looks very much like a fjord but doesn't have the temperment, then that will hurt the breed's reputation. A number of years ago Craig Kellogg representing the ADS came up here to give a driving clinic. He had exactly that negative impression about Fjords, and I think he even mentioned Bill Long's pair of Fjord X's. And maybe someone would mistake a Fjord mule for a pure Fjord? I guess it is possible if they don't know the breed. And if that mule was less than cooperative? Anyway, I think I'll stick to breeding Guppies for now Jean in Fairbanks, Alaska, Cold but HEY! we gained 2 minutes daylight today! Jean Ernest Fairbanks, Alaska mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Question
This message is from: Jean Ernest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Good Grief! How is the mare "violated"? One breeding doesn't carry over to another! No sperm are stored for another pregnancy. That was an old wives tale (or more properly, an old husband's tale?) If a mare is bred to a stallion of another breed, she may produce a crossbred, but if bred to a stallion of the same breed the next time, she will produce the purebred offspring of THAT stallion! No she is not "contaminated", where did you ever get that idea? And no, the stallion is not "contaminated' either! He is still capable of producing purebred foals. This sort of sounds like the thinking that some human societies have: wives are murdered if they go out and have sex with another man, girls are forever "ruined" if they are with the wrong man before marriage, etc. Maybe it is this outdated thinking that led to the ban on breeding for mules? Jean in Cold Fairbanks, Alaska, -20F >Is this the right idea: > >If a Fjord stallion was bred to another breed that Fjord stallion doesn't >upset the applecart as far as "pure-bred" Fjords are concerned. > >However is a Fjord mare is bred to another breed she is now violated, so to >speak, and has ruined her "pure-bred" line? Jean Ernest Fairbanks, Alaska mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Thank You Not So Secret Santa!!
This message is from: "Reena G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> oh were those figurines kind of a hard plastic? from a German company? our local feed store had in a display, but alas, no Fjords although the catalog had them, but the store for some reason couldn't order them :-( Reena > Glad you enjoyed your gift. The fjord figurines came from Big R a farm and hardware store. On a trip to Beth at Starfire Farm we stopped in Trinidad Colorado for a break we went into Big R and there in a display of farm animals, dogs, and horses were fjords. There were only a few breeds of horses displayed but fjords were one of them. I have 6 here, if you would like them I could send them, they were $4.50 each. I go to Colorado quite often and could pick you up more when I go. Your Not So Secret Santa. Sue
Question
This message is from: "DT" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Is this the right idea: If a Fjord stallion was bred to another breed that Fjord stallion doesn't upset the applecart as far as "pure-bred" Fjords are concerned. However is a Fjord mare is bred to another breed she is now violated, so to speak, and has ruined her "pure-bred" line? Now if that is correct theoretically you could breed Fjord stallions to other breeds and not taint the "pure-breds". Then if you chose to pick one breed to pair with the Fjord stallion you could produce a new breed yet still have pure-bred Fjords. Is that correct? Deb
Re: How to ruin a breed's reputation
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Lois, How unfortunate you have had such luck with trainers. We, in Minnesota, have access to a wonderful trainer who appreciates fjords and works well with them. Also, I recently took my mare to a different trainer - just for a lesson - and he has never been around fjords. Thankfully, there was no negative commentary and he was "all ears" as to how to train her to "breed standard". His only comment about showing her on the open circut was that her size (being so short) might be against her in the show ring. We shall see:) Look for a DRIVING instructor - that might help. Our trainer enjoys driving - has many awards - and loves the character of the fjord. He will willingly ride fjords but understands them knows how to work with them. He is a dear man and has quite a following in the fjord community. Good luck - Linda in MN
Re: Fjords at the Nat'l Western Stock Show, Colorado?
This message is from: Starfirefarm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To all those interested in Norwegian Fjords and the National Western Stock Show: There WILL be Fjords at the 2003 Stock Show. They will be performing during the Evening of Dancing Horses January 22 and 23rd (evening performances.) This is a ticketed event (you can purchase tickets via the National Western website at http://www.nationalwestern.com) We will be performing with Michael Martin Murphey and the Rio Grande Band. If all goes well there will be two acts involving Fjords: a quadrille with 8 ridden fjord horses and one driven; and a "pas de deux" (of sorts) with a Roman Riding pair and a "ridden reverse unicorn hitch." Nine fjords in total will be part of the show. For those not familiar with the Evening of Dancing Horses, it was started about 8 years ago by members of our local Rocky Mountain Dressage Society who liked to perform musical freestyles. The show grew from using all recorded music and a one night performance to two nights and live music with Michael and the Band. The current program has also expanded to include reining freestyles, wonderful musical skits and world class vaulting. Fjords have been involved in the show since 1998 and are one of the reasons that many audience members come to see the show year after year. At the close of the show audience members are invited to meet Michael, the Band, and the horses and their riders in the paddock area. If you are at all interested in seeing the show, don't wait to buy your tickets. The show (both nights!) sells out every year. The Thurday evening performance usually sells out first. Rumor also has it that fjords will be part of the opening ceremony for the Freestyle Reining on Monday, Dec. 20. Our horses will be moving into the Events Center on Sunday, Jan. 19 and leaving Friday morning (very early!) Jan. 24th. Please come by and visit us in the stable area! Beth -- Starfire Farm Beth Beymer and Sandy North http://www.starfirefarm.com
Re: How to ruin a breed's reputation
This message is from: Marsha Jo Hannah <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Martie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Of the first three trainers I > contacted, none were willing to work with us. I finally went to a > women who trains mainly draft horses, but also some light breeds. She > worked with us, commenting on how 'drafty minded' Kilar was and what a > nice attitude he had for driving [...] > it seems like a lot of trainers just won't touch the Fjords. None of > the first folks I contacted would give me a reason - just 'I don't work > with Fjords or Halflingers. [...]' Those of us who have longeared equines run into a similar problem---I had to be the one to train my donkey to drive, because there weren't any trainers around who would work with donkeys. I decided that some trainers just couldn't figure out how to work with an equine that was more intelligent than the trainer ;-) Seriously, Fjords (and donkeys) seem to have a different thought process than most light-horse breeds. A trainer that knows one and only one way to interact with equines isn't going to take kindly to having a pupil for which that method doesn't work well. IMHO, if a trainer tells you that he "doesn't do Fjords", you should thank him profusely for not wasting your time! Marsha Jo HannahMurphy must have been a horseman-- [EMAIL PROTECTED] anything that can go wrong, will! 15 mi SW of Roseburg, Oregon
In defense of our Canadian friends
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] OK, I just have to comment on this. I've been watching these "crossbreed" posts for quite some time now and staying quiet. One thing seems to keep popping out at me. The general consensus has seemed to be that the major/larger portion of these crosses are coming from Canada. I will concede that the PMU farms in Canada are producing crossbreds; I have personally seen a good number of them in a bunch of 200+ PMU foals recently brought into Sisters, OR. BUT!! I also PERSONALLY know of one person right here in the pacific NW ( in Eastern OR ) that is actively & openly cross breeding with a Fjord stallion (from what he says (??) It is a registered stallion that a "friend in Canada gave" to him). He crosses mostly with QH mares. I also know of another person (in Western ID) that no longer has a stallion, but did in the past actively & openly cross breed to any mare who's owner would pay his fee. This particular person was vocally adamant that the NFHR's rules on crossbreeding were in place just to keep "Small Breeders" from making any money off their stallions. (Needless to say, I was not impressed with this man at all!!) Anyway, my point is - if I know of these two persons in the US who are/were crossbreeding, both of then in this relatively small area - within 200 miles or less of each other, how many others are there out there? We should not be trying to place all the blame on/in Canada for crossbreeding. Just my humble opinion. Amy Amy Evers Dun Lookin' Fjords Redmond, OR Fjord [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Thank You Not So Secret Santa!!
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 12/21/02 7:34:36 PM Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > The horsey treats were a hit with all the furry ones and I would love to > know > where you got the adorable Fjord figurine, I can think of a lot of people > that > would like to get their hands on those > > Glad you enjoyed your gift. The fjord figurines came from Big R a farm and hardware store. On a trip to Beth at Starfire Farm we stopped in Trinidad Colorado for a break we went into Big R and there in a display of farm animals, dogs, and horses were fjords. There were only a few breeds of horses displayed but fjords were one of them. I have 6 here, if you would like them I could send them, they were $4.50 each. I go to Colorado quite often and could pick you up more when I go. Your Not So Secret Santa. Sue
Re: the economy and horse sales
This message is from: "Mike May, Registrar NFHR" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> At 08:48 AM 12/29/2002 -0600, you wrote: This message is from: Janet McNally <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> in the Midwest/west with good registered halter trained weanlings in other popular breeds that would have sold for $1000 last year are now selling for $100..., and well trained mature horses available at $300-$500 that would have brought over 2-3K last year. I am afraid I don't get info on what the purchase prices have been so I have no idea of what Fjords are selling for in a particular part of the country. I do know that the North West has typically been lower than the rest of the country probably just due to the numbers & prices of other breeds in that area. You may have hit the nail on the head though, our transfers may be staying the same but the sale price may well be dropping in some areas. So what are the options for a horse owner with more horses than they can afford, and no sales? Advertise, Advertise, Advertise!!! I would try placing them with one or more of the "Fjord Placement" Services for one. There are several well know breeders in the country that take horses on consignment & consistently get them sold and for a fair price as far as I know. Mike === Norwegian Fjord Horse Registry Mike May, Executive Director & Registrar PO Box 685 Webster, NY 14580-0685 Voice 585-872-4114 FAX 585-787-0497 http://www.nfhr.com mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How to ruin a breed's reputation
This message is from: bolinsj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I had a similar problem when I first purchased Kilar. He was well trained to drive but I was not. Of the first three trainers I contacted, none were willing to work with us. I finally went to a women who trains mainly draft horses, but also some light breeds. She worked with us, commenting on how 'drafty minded' Kilar was and what a nice attitude he had for driving (we won't talk about riding). In short - it seems like a lot of trainers just won't touch the Fjords. None of the first folks I contacted would give me a reason - just 'I don't work with Fjords or Halflingers. If you want a nice driving horse, why don't you get a nice little Morgan or something'. Sheesh. Unfortunately, my trainer has moved to PA. She's still willing to instruct, but obviously can't make the 2.5 hr drive to do it personally every week like she used to. Martie in MD Bossmare wrote: This message is from: "Bossmare" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Well, I think I've been enlightened. Recent remarks here about a certain professional's opinion of Fjords as "stubborn" and "runaways" (later thought to be directed at bad Fjord-X's) have clarified a puzzling situation I've run into.
Re: Crosses & Hope Everyone's having a Good Holiday Season
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 12/29/2002 8:09:56 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > Personally myself I currently own a fjord cross filly > that came from a PMU farm. Next year I hope to own > another one. Eventually I hope to be able to buy PMU > fjord crosses, train them and sell them to those > people who would like such animals. Yes I am also > going to own and breed purebred fjords, but I also > plan on having the fjord crosses spayed or neutered. > This way I will be able to save the crosses and not > have to worry about the possibility of having these > crosses bred somewhere down the line. I will have the > best of both worlds because I will be able to afford a > purebred fjord, but don't want to see those beautiful > crosses going to auction. > Hope you all had a good Christmas and that your New > Year may be bright. > Holly > I like your attitude. :) It's not the horse's fault that it was born on the wrong side of the sheets, so to speak. And horses that are already here, I do like to see having good homes. I'm happy you are buying those crossbreds and spaying/neutering them. It's just a shame though that they are out there being bred and having to be rescued. Sigh. I feel the same about the dogworld. Too many animals are being brought into the world due to lack of spaying/neutering, and there life forces are just as valuable as a purebred. Most of my dogs have been rescued mutts. If people would breed responsibly, we wouldn't have to rescue so many dogs and ponies. Pamela http://hometown.aol.com/northhorse/index.html";>Northern Holiday Horses
More Clicker Training
This message is from: Steve McIlree <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> About six years ago I clicker trained Tank to fetch a stable ball. See: http://fjordhorselist.carriagehorse.com/Steve_s_Page/steve_s_page.htm Shortly after that, Cynthia moved her horses to a new boarding facility to get them off pasture, so further clicker training stopped. Since then Tank has not done any clicker training or played fetch until yesterday. I thought it would be interesting to see if he remembered the training, so I threw the ball and told him to "fetch". Off he went immediately, picked up the ball and brought it back to me. We even managed to refine the trick a little more, he now drops the ball at my feet. The moral of this is beware what you train a horse to do, they DON'T FORGET. -- Steve McIlree -- Las Cruces, NM/Omaha, NE, USA No whisper of lover, no trilling of birds, Can stir me as hooves of the horses have stirred. -- Will H Ogilvie
How to ruin a breed's reputation
This message is from: "Bossmare" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Well, I think I've been enlightened. Recent remarks here about a certain professional's opinion of Fjords as "stubborn" and "runaways" (later thought to be directed at bad Fjord-X's) have clarified a puzzling situation I've run into. I recently purchased an extremely sweet and well-behaved mare with no attitude problems whatsoever. She had been in driving training and I had videotape footage of her performance including in a group at a driving clinic. I approached a local person who advertises teaching driving and training driving horses. She has years of experience and is primarily a Morgan person but trains all breeds. I emailed and spoke to her on the phone and described my student (me) and the pony who knew more than I did. She was very agreeable and interested in working with me and my pony. I sent her the video. I never heard from her again and phone calls and emails went unanswered. I know she is still offering driving lessons but apparently not to me. I then got information on another trainer of driving horses. I left message describing myself and my pony. No return call. Meanwhile another local person with a Fjord told me of certain trainers (but not the ones I'd contacted) that will not take Fjords. She knew of one sent to Pennsylvania because no one in New Jersey was interested. She too mentioned that there had been a breeder in NJ who produced "bad ones".? Enlightening is what the remarks of one highly placed professional in the tight knit world of driving in New Jersey can apparently do to the reputation of a breed. And if an ill-mannered Fjord X looks like a purebred most people will assume it is a Fjord. The fact that the breed is rare and as best as I can discern even rarer in NJ means there are not enough numbers out there performing well to dispel the rumors. Certainly no one wants a stubborn runaway, particularly in a driving horse. As a newcomer to the breed had I heard that from my Morgan friends I certainly would have reconsidered. Actually it was Carol Rivoire's ads in our local papers showing novices having a blast with Fjords that first piqued my interest. That's the effect good press can have. And if someone would take me and my pony as students they would find this pony to be a stellar example of what the breed can be. Lois Berenyi in New Jersey where the state animal is the horse.
Re: Suggestion to list and NFHR BOD
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > I will forward your message to the BOD Lynda. > Thanks Mike, that would be great! I think Ruthie came up with a great idea. Lynda
Re: the economy and horse sales
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Janet, > I do not find that unusual, lots of breeders will have the same Fjord for sale for a lengthy time. Many of the Fjord breeders will wait for the "right match". We personally have had a filly for sale since early summer who has not sold. We have had a few serious inquiries into her, but have turned them down as we did not feel the match was right. This is nothing against the buyer, merely an attempt to place the Fjord in the best possible home with people who are actively looking for the qualities this filly inherently has. Lynda
Re: Suggestion to list and NFHR BOD
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello Mike, In a message dated 12/29/2002 7:21:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > I think that first of all your going to have a hard time getting the > Agreed, it would be difficult. I suppose we would have to implement some sort of privacy clause...however, we really should consider showing facts as to why we do not allow it nor approve of it for new Fjord owners and the general public. This should fall under the category of education, right? Lynda
Re: crossbreeding
This message is from: Jean Ernest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >I really can't see the problem crossing Fjords to create a mule. I can't see any problem with this either..I heard there was a very nice team of fjord mules in Montana. Just how is it goung to harm the breed? Mules are sterile! Check this out! http://www.jabeck.com/farm/ Jean in Fairbanks, Alaska, -20F this morning with clear skies. Winter has finally arrived! Jean Ernest Fairbanks, Alaska mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: the economy and horse sales
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I would also hope anyone with more horses than they can afford would stop breeding. IMO that is what often gets them in the situtation in the first place! It happens in the goat world, too. Linda in MN
Crosses & Hope Everyone's having a Good Holiday Season
This message is from: Holly Tuck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I just wanted to let those that seem to think a fjord cross is a sin that those crosses seem to find their ways to homes for those that can't afford a fjord. Personally myself I currently own a fjord cross filly that came from a PMU farm. Next year I hope to own another one. Eventually I hope to be able to buy PMU fjord crosses, train them and sell them to those people who would like such animals. Yes I am also going to own and breed purebred fjords, but I also plan on having the fjord crosses spayed or neutered. This way I will be able to save the crosses and not have to worry about the possibility of having these crosses bred somewhere down the line. I will have the best of both worlds because I will be able to afford a purebred fjord, but don't want to see those beautiful crosses going to auction. Hope you all had a good Christmas and that your New Year may be bright. Holly __ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
Canadians,BOD,breeding etc.
This message is from: "Janne Myrdal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> OK, it has been a long discussion on the crossbreeding issue, and I guess I have to weigh in. First let me say that I DO NOT support ANY form of crossbreeding with the delightful Fjord Horse. Why mess with what nature has perfected over 1000's of years. And also, let me say that I have lots of respect for the recent rescue efforts. Now, I also must say that Gordon from Canada, who posted yesterday has a huge point. This is a democracy, and what people do with a purchased and fully paid for fjord CANNOT be legislated byany of us. Sure, you can kick them out of the club so to speak, and as breeders you may even have them sign a contract when they buy, but short of becoming a police horse state, what can you do ANd if we become a policing unit within the NFHR, it will drive potential Fjord buyers and families away from this breed. Most people have their Fjords right at home, with no showing and breeding etc, just their own pet horse, we need to protect this little world by not becoming to strict that people will not buy a fjord anymore. Now, do not take me wrong, I think all the effort put forward is good, but I do think the BOD has a great point when they continually and faithfully return to the issue of EDUCATION as our best tool. Educated people does make better decisions, and as far as the few that crossbreed, ?? What to do??? Really nothing you can do, the freedom that America enjoys has a price, and this is part of it. >From a norskie in winter wonderland, ND Janne
Re: the economy and horse sales
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 12/29/2002 6:48:31 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > So what are the options for a horse owner with more horses than they can > afford, and no sales? Donate to charitable agencies. Handicapped programs, at risk kids programs, Montessori schools. It's a good tax write off, at the very worst. If you can't afford to keep the horse but don't want to donate, reduce sale price. Lease the horse. There are many options rather than selling for meat, if you look. :) Pamela http://hometown.aol.com/northhorse/index.html";>Northern Holiday Horses
Re[2]: Crossbreeding re: "NIGEL" Fjord/Arab X
This message is from: Steve McIlree <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Vivian-- Sunday, December 29, 2002, 6:20:28 AM, you wrote: > I also rather doubt Finn's efforts had a negative impact on the > breed in general, but this is just my opinion. Unless you count Bill Long having a current aversion to Fjords probably not. I did a 5 day clinic with Bill several years ago, during which Cynthia visited and asked him what he thought about Fjords. He responded that he found them to be stubborn, unpredictable and prone to being run-aways. This opinion he admitted, had been developed from his experience with Finn's crosses rather than real Fjords. -- Steve McIlree -- Las Cruces, NM/Omaha, NE, USA Princes learn no art truly but the art of horsemanship. The reason is the brave beast is no flatterer. --Ben Jonson(1572-1637)
Re: crossbreeding
This message is from: "Hope Carlson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hello listers, back to a topic we've mentioned before. Longears and mules. I really can't see the problem crossing Fjords to create a mule. But then I have a fondness for longears. On the farm I grew up on in Alabama, mules did all the work, horses couldn't stand up to the heat. I learned how to ride on the home farm draft mules starting at age 1. I am truly curious if Fjords would make a good mule. I think it is possible and might be outstanding. Hope N IL
starfish, ugly heads and the new Fjord Grooming video
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Just a few thoughts I wanted to contribute. Lynda said, While I realize these three Fjords are merely a drop in the bucket, if more people could rescue just ONE horse from a slaughter yard feedlot, look at what could be accomplished! Remember that story about the man who was walking on the seashore and lots of starfish had washed up? Thousands and thousands of them would soon be baking in the hot sun. He started throwing them back in, one by one. Another man saw him and remarked on his foolish effort. "You'll never save them all," he cried, "there is no point to this." The first man held up the starfish in his hand and said, "Well, it matters to him." Or something like that. I am sure those 3 Fjords are really happy. And of course I wish all doomed horses could be them. Good working western Morgans have pretty heads. Those big bulgy eyes, tiny pointed ears and small muzzles seem to be one of the last things to go, even if you are breeding for "using" rather than beauty. Funny thing about the new Fjord grooming video (it is great). I bought one for my husband for Xmas, he bought one for me for Xmas! Willow, our 1 1/2 year old Fjord, wishes neither of us had gotten one! We took her out in the ring a couple of days ago. I have been trimming her mane all along, but usually in the cross ties and she gets fidgety real fast, so we thought we would try one of us at the head, like in the video. There they are using quiet older horses who stand there. Willow has not seen the video. While she knows her feet should stay still, she just cannot hold her head still for any length of time. And the head is connected to the neck, so we are trimming a moving target. I was the head person and did different things, like wrapping her muzzle with the soft lead rope, putting my fingers in her mouth, etc. All these novelties kept her still for a bit, then she was busy again. The final result was OK, and like the video says, practice makes perfect. We did feel a bit like a parody though! Valerie Columbia, CT
the economy and horse sales
This message is from: Janet McNally <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Mike May wrote: > When I read this I wondered if it was really true since I had not really > noticed fewer transfers coming through my office. Hi Mike, you may recall I had queried you privately about this a while ago. Those numbers appear to be good news, however I regard them with cautious optimism as they may not reflect what is happening right now, especially in the midwest/west this winter. All I can say is that accross the board the horse market is on its knees in the Midwest/west with good registered halter trained weanlings in other popular breeds that would have sold for $1000 last year are now selling for $100..., and well trained mature horses available at $300-$500 that would have brought over 2-3K last year. Hay is up to $6 for a square bale, normally only $1 here. And we were not even in a drought, this is just the demand created by all the regions that were dry. A lot of the Fjords I queried about for sale last year, are still for sale. Perhaps the relatively small population of Fjords compared to other breeds is helping maintain sales at normal levels, but ultimately these forces are going to be felt by some people, even some Fjord owners. So what are the options for a horse owner with more horses than they can afford, and no sales? Janet
crossbreeding-short
This message is from: Janet McNally <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >From the subsequent discussion I can tell that it is difficult to distinguish >the difference between crossbreeding for the purpose of bringing new genes into the fjord gene pool (something I was definitely --not-- advocating) and outcrossing with Fjords, that is using the Fjord to improve someones grades or create useful hybrids for a purpose. The purpose of my rants, was only to point out that outcrossing (i.e. using a purebreed to add certain qualities to a grade, or creating a hybrid), is a very old proven practice with merit and should not be spoken of as if it was a dirty word. Outcrossing does not affect the pure breeds. I tried to set forth in the lengthly argument, why someone would want to outcross... one example might be used by a person who uses work horses for a living ... to size down the modern draft to a more practical size. A purebred Fjord might be too small, a percheron too large, a hybrid just right. This is just hypothetical. If the hybrid is a useful cross, it will be very important that the Fjord breed retain its purebred qualities, and the Percheron retain its purebred qualities so that the hybrids remain a predictable product. So use of a breed for outcrossing like this usually strengthens the desire to keep the parent breeds pure and has been important to keeping many pure breeds pure. Currently it is not unusual for work horse people use quarter horses to size down their drafts. Draft blood has not been creeping into the QH breed, nor has QH been creeping into the draft breeds. It is a dead end cross, bred for work, not breeding. I would think that officially recognizing the crosses is not a good thing for the Fjord breed. As doing so may encourage cross breeding. I never said we should -encourage- crossbreeding, only stated that..."who am I to second guess what someone else's needs are". We do live in a free country do we not? Janet
Fjord Chat Sunday Night
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] PETSANDVETS.COM FJORD HORSE CHAT "Fjord Room" SUNDAY NIGHT 9:00 pm to 10:00pm (Eastern Time) UPGRADED CHAT ROOMS http://chat.petsandvets.com/";>http://chat.petsandvets.com
why slaughter horses are stunned-caution graphic
This message is from: Janet McNally <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Lynda asked > It > is highly doubtful a change in humanely putting an animal down versus > stunning before dissecting will happen, for whatever reason, the animal > cannot be dead at this point, but should be unconscious. I still do not as > of yet understand WHY, but it has something to do with the meat quality and > human consumption. Lynda, When any animal is slaughtered, it is necessary to be sure the blood is let out. Why, I do not recall, partly could be a long tradition passed on from judean culture, but today is believed to be important to meat quality and is widely practiced through out the world and accross cultures. The heart needs to keep beating to properly 'bleed' an animal. In modern times, stunning was added as a way to humanely render the animal unconcious before it was bled. Janet
Re: Crossbreeding re: "NIGEL" Fjord/Arab X
This message is from: Vivian Creigh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on 12/28/02 11:27 AM, Cynthia Madden at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Although I might be mistaken I believe Nigel was bred by Finn Casperson in NJ. Finn is of Norwegian heritage and had a barn full of Fjords. Bill Long his farrier and later a World Champion with Finn's WB team thought that the Fjord would be improved in movement and endurance by crossing them with Arabs. Some of these ponies are still alive and bringing pleasure to their owners. I remember something to the effect that Finn received some pretty nasty correspondence as a result of this crossbreeding, but that may just be an old rumour. I'm not sure that any of these crosses achieved the desired results but they were certainly usable. I also rather doubt Finn's efforts had a negative impact on the breed in general, but this is just my opinion. Vivian Creigh
Re: dont shoot! I am Canadian
This message is from: "Mike May, Registrar NFHR" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> At 03:22 PM 12/28/2002 -0700, you wrote: This message is from: "Gordon Fulton & Geri McNeil" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Yes it is a nice theory to have no crossbreds but it is a bucket with so many holes that you're out of water before you get to the fire. How have you in the USA solved this problem? Gordon Fulton I wish I could say we have solved it Gordon but that I am afraid is just "Pie in the Sky" so to speak. The NFHR does have a rule against crossbreeding with a penalty for it. Here is our rule regarding crossbreeding: In the interest of protecting the genetic purity and the highest standards of the Fjord horse, we will withdraw from the Norwegian Fjord Horse Registry any mare or stallion that is used for crossbreeding with another breed or species. Violators will have their membership suspended and will lose all membership privileges including registration, transfer of horses and any voting rights. The names of owners and horses will be placed on the suspended list. Here is the rule regarding inbreeding: Inbred horses foaled after January 1986 can not be registered. This includes: mother to son, father to daughter, brother to sister and half-brother to half-sister. === Norwegian Fjord Horse Registry Mike May, Executive Director & Registrar PO Box 685 Webster, NY 14580-0685 Voice 585-872-4114 FAX 585-787-0497 http://www.nfhr.com mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Suggestion to list and NFHR BOD
This message is from: "Mike May, Registrar NFHR" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I will forward your message to the BOD Lynda. Mike At 01:33 PM 12/28/2002 -0500, you wrote: This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello to everyone, Ruthie and I have been chatting off list, and she came up with a wonderful idea! Is it possible for the NFHR BOD to create a committee to focus solely on crossbreeding and the effects it has on these crosses? For example, while most of us are adamently against crossbreeding, and most of us have either seen or have heard of a cross and often, it's temperament issues, there are no "facts" to prove this to the general public. What we need are factual statistics. How many crossbreed? What are Fjords crossed with? What is the end product of these crosses? What is their temperament like? What is their general appearance? What purpose to they serve? Etc., etc. What do you all think? Lynda === Norwegian Fjord Horse Registry Mike May, Executive Director & Registrar PO Box 685 Webster, NY 14580-0685 Voice 585-872-4114 FAX 585-787-0497 http://www.nfhr.com mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Suggestion to list and NFHR BOD
This message is from: "Mike May, Registrar NFHR" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> At 01:48 PM 12/28/2002 -0500, you wrote: This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello Jean, In a message dated 12/28/2002 1:43:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > What is the end purpose of this cross breed study? To show the effects of crossbreeding Fjords. All we really have right now is personal opinion and rumor, although everyone knows my personal opinion on the matter! However, if we had a statistical study completed on this, we would be able to much more accurately prove to the general public as to WHY we do not crossbreed and WHY it should not be done with the Fjord breed. I think that first of all your going to have a hard time getting the information necessary to do a meaningful study. Since the only Fjord owners we really have contacts with are our members, and since it is against our rules I am afraid not to many people are going to tell us about their crossbreeding adventures. Mike === Norwegian Fjord Horse Registry Mike May, Executive Director & Registrar PO Box 685 Webster, NY 14580-0685 Voice 585-872-4114 FAX 585-787-0497 http://www.nfhr.com mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Excitement!
This message is from: "Knutsen Fjord Farm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hi everyone, Everyone, two- or four-footed, at our farm is excited! We will soon welcome to our place a lovely filly, Yenna, from Old Hickory Farm. She was born this Spring to the Uls Dun mare Mykleblakka, 3.pr, imported from Norway by Julie Will and her husband Darryl. Yenna's sire, imported from Norway by the Oddens, is the Grey Dun stallion Smedsmo Graen, 2.pr. Since Yenna isn't registered yet with the NFHR, I'm not sure how many know that she is a Yellow Dun. With our interest in preserving good quality in all the colors of the Fjord breed, we couldn't be happier! Mary Thurman, tell lovely Line to welcome another great-great-etc. grand-daughter to the Northwest. We will have pictures up on our site as soon as we get them from Darryl. Happy Holidays to all - Peg Peg Knutsen - Ellensburg, WA http://www.eburg.com/~kffjord/
