breeder's association
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] If you can stand one more opinion on this subject, since Peg Knutson asked for it (I think you meant me Peg?), I too am a firm believer that adding more beauracracy just adds more problems. We have the committees in place within the NFHR which have been, in the past, and are currently addressing these issues that are being discussed. The real need is for more of us to get involved and volunteer to help in these areas. In this "Me" generation, service is not a popular topic. We're all about "what can I get", not "what can I give". Do you realize, though, that the future of the NFHR, and ultimately the Fjordhorses that we all love so much, depends more on our willingness to help out and volunteer than it does any other single factor. Carol did not make a big point about it, but she has voluntered recently. The particular thing she voluntered for was full, so I wonder if she'd be willing to volunteer for something else. Or, though all the seats were already taken on the committee she voluntered for, would she be willing to volunteer to help with whatever that committee needs? And how about the rest of you? Please keep in mind that experience is not as important as eagerness. Ability is not nearly as important as is availability. Please think about how you can help. Sincerely, Brian Jacobsen, DVM Norwegian Fjordhest Ranch Salisbury, North Carolina
Re: Fjord Breeder's "Association", "Group", "Whatever"
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dear Mary, I liked your comments. We need to be inclusive, not exclusive. Considering the Fjords' historic background as family farm horses, we certainly need to honor the niche of small owner and not cater to the large breeders only. After all if they're so successful and so profitable, they are not the ones that need further support from the organization. I think Carol is to be commended for turning her farm into a going concern in that fairly remote location. I'm sure a lot of her return comes from the bed & breakfast and training and sales commissions as well as from sales of the horses she actually bred or imported or stud fees from Gjest and whomever else she is standing. The point is not to distance the wealthy, successful breeders from the beginning or small breeders, but to share information and help each other along. Is there not sufficient Fjord interest to support us all? If the answer is no, could we not create this by working together, instead of against? Thinking along these lines will bring a positive communication, which may lead to a positive association. Best wishes, Alex Wind Harmony Springs Farm (2 Fjords) Shawsville VA
Re: Fjord Breeder's "Association", "Group", "Whatever"
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mary, Great posting, I agree whole heartedly, >From one of the passionate little guys, you so mentioned Michele Noonan (going to get my pregnant new mare tomorrow) In windy Montana
Re: Fjord Breeder's "Association", "Group", "Whatever"
This message is from: Mary Thurman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> --- Arthur Rivoire <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > (Arthur Rivoire) > What I am talking about is an organization to > address specific needs and > interests of breeders. - As it's been pointed > out many times by the > NFHR, the interests and needs of the general > membership are not always the > same as breeders. For instance, why should people > who own only geldings, > or those that have absolutely no interest in > breeding be concerned with the > things that vitally concern me as a breeder? > So, what's wrong with breeders getting together in > an organization to > address their interests? Carol, If breeders form their own organization to help each other and to better the breed through their common interest, I see nothing wrong with a Breeders Association. In this vein, it would be virtually the same as our "Promotional Groups" - a group of people getting together to do what they can to promote the breed as a whole. These are our "using horse" groups. They sponsor shows, clinics, etc., to help those who use Fjords do that better. A "breeders' group" formed for the purpose of putting on seminars, clinics, etc., to be better informed about the breeding issues of the Fjord could help ALL breeders do a good job - if the membership is not limited in anyway, ie. no exclusive "definition of a breeder". This would allow access to the group for small breeders - those who have only a mare or two, no stallion on premises, produce only a few foals, BUT want to produce only very good foals. The small breeder is often the one with limited resources and limited access to advice and information. He is the one who needs the shared knowledge of experienced breeders in order to produce good (sometimes great) foals. If the needs of the smaller breeders are not addressed, they are the ones who will be unable, often, to produce good horses - to the detriment of the breed. Often these small breeders are just as passionate about the breed as the bigger breeders - they own one or two really good mares that they either bought or raised and want to use them to produce good foals for the breed - but they do not have the resources to "go bigtime". I speak from experience here. You would not believe how incredibly hard it is to find out ANYTHING about Fjords - let alone find a good stallion for your prize mare - if you are small, out of the "main loop", live on the edge of nowhere, and have little cash resources. Hard, yes - but not impossible! How much easier it would have been for us to have had some organization we could go to for basic information. This should be one of the goals of any "breeders' group" - if you ignore the little guy, it is to the detriment of the breed. This said, I think the idea could be workable. Just be careful that it does not become an exclusive "rich man's club". Mary === Mary Thurman Raintree Farms [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com
Re: Fjord Breeder's "Association", "Group", "Whatever"
This message is from: Julia Will <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> The idea of a "Breeder's Committee" has been discussed by the Board a couple of times, and there never seemed to be a great deal of interest, possibly because there are so many things going on in all of our lives. I personally am generally over committed, and not anxious to have another thing to become involved with. If such a group were to form, I would hope it would be under the "umbrella" of the NFHR, and not another entity to "join". My pennies worth. Julie
Re: Fjord Breeder's "Association", "Group", "Whatever"
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Arthur Rivoire) Hello All! From Carol ar Beaver Dam Farm in Nova Scotia where it is now snowing sligtly after 80 degree weather last week. Nuts! Thanks to everybody for giving your opinions on a Breeder's Association. Almost all negative, but at least gives us food for thought. It's vitally important you understand, I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT ANOTHER REGISTRY! You're all correct. I couldn't agree more! There certainly are too many of those, although it seems that situation is working itself out. The NFHR is the biggest by far, and will probably be the only registry in a short time. The original registry is called, I believe, THE FJORDHORSE ASSOCIATION, started by Gene Bauer. Although it was the original registry, "THE ASSOCIATION" is now definitely #2. By the way, the NFHR was formed because of a problem and/or fight between two big breeders, Gene Bauer and Harold Jacobsen, and Jacobsen was instrumental in founding the NFHR. --- The FJORD BREEDERS OF AMERICA is the 3rd registry, but never amounted to much. What I am talking about is an organization to address specific needs and interests of breeders. - As it's been pointed out many times by the NFHR, the interests and needs of the general membership are not always the same as breeders. For instance, why should people who own only geldings, or those that have absolutely no interest in breeding be concerned with the things that vitally concern me as a breeder? So, what's wrong with breeders getting together in an organization to address their interests? I may be wrong, but it seems to me that the general perception of "A Breeder" is something akin to Ford Motor Co., . . . you know, in business for the bottom line only. --- How about most of us are breeding Fjordhorses because we have an all-consuming, passionate interest in the breed, and therefore have dedicated our lives to maintaining the quality of this extraordinary horse? And feeling that way, we might benefit and enjoy the company of like-minded people. And through that association of like-minded people even might be able to do a better job for the horses. I think it's possible. I think it would be for the betterment of the breed. I don't think it would be harmful to the NFHR. Why should it be? I've had a generally negative response to this idea, but have we heard from breeders? As to there being too many organizations I would agree that more than one REGISTRY is too many. But, do you think that the various Fjord Clubs that are springing up across the country are detrimental? I wouldn't think so. I think it's great! The more the better. They all have formed because of their special itnerest usually holding clinics or shows. Anything wrong with that? I don't think so. An association of breeders, in my opinion, would be a very good thing for the breed. Good Heavens, why not? Why all this negative thinking? Can't anybody think of any positive aspects of the idea? Why not explore the idea with an open mind, and save all the negatives for later after we've decided whether such an idea is something to pursue. Regards, Carol Carol and Arthur Rivoire Beaver Dam Farm Fjords II R.R. 7 Pomquet Antigonish County Nova Scotia B2G 2L4 902 386 2304 http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/beaverdf
Re: BREEDER'S ASSOCIATION
This message is from: "Jean Gayle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Interesting point Mike, I always thought it meant the stallion i.e. "bred" the mare. So a new way to look at it. Jean Gayle Aberdeen, WA [Authoress of "The Colonel's Daughter" ] http://www.techline.com/~jgayle -Original Message- From: Mike May, Registrar NFHR <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Thursday, May 13, 1999 4:56 AM Subject: Re: BREEDER'S ASSOCIATION >This message is from: "Mike May, Registrar NFHR" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >make their SOLE income from Fjords either. Not even Carol at Beaver Dam >Farm does. I guess I would like to hear the definition of a "Professional >Breeder" too. Or the definition of a "Non-Professional Breeder". Actually >I would like to know what others think the term "Breeder" means. To me the >"Breeder" is the owner of the mare at the time of service. So anyone can >be a breeder as long as you are a owner of a mare. Owning a stallion only >makes you a stallion owner it doesn't make you a breeder (Professional or >otherwise). > >Mike > >=== > >Norwegian Fjord Horse Registry >Mike May, Registrar >Voice 716-872-4114 >FAX 716-787-0497 > >http://www.nfhr.com >mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >
Re: BREEDER'S ASSOCIATION
This message is from: "Mike May, Registrar NFHR" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> At 08:55 PM 5/12/99 -0400, you wrote: What in the world is a non-professional breeder? Is this another " Back Yard Breeder " catagory.or just implying that someone dosnt make their SOLE income from breeding Norwegian Fjords? I for one, have met many Fjord breeders in the last 10 years, and not one of them can claim that they only breed these horses for a living. And I have probably met and talked to many more. I don't know of any that make their SOLE income from Fjords either. Not even Carol at Beaver Dam Farm does. I guess I would like to hear the definition of a "Professional Breeder" too. Or the definition of a "Non-Professional Breeder". Actually I would like to know what others think the term "Breeder" means. To me the "Breeder" is the owner of the mare at the time of service. So anyone can be a breeder as long as you are a owner of a mare. Owning a stallion only makes you a stallion owner it doesn't make you a breeder (Professional or otherwise). Mike === Norwegian Fjord Horse Registry Mike May, Registrar Voice 716-872-4114 FAX 716-787-0497 http://www.nfhr.com mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: A Fjord Breeder's Association
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dear Carol, Count me in! Sounds like a spiffy idea. I would think that all breeders, even backyard breeders who only produce a foal once every three years, or so, around competition schedules, could be involved. Anyone who is adding to the Fjord breed, needs to be informed about the latest information, and breed standards and husbandry goals and methods. With this e-mail, geography doesn't stand in the way so much, as ongoing dialog is possible. Fjording forever! Alex Wind Harmony Springs Farm Shawsville VA 24162
re: Fjord Breeder's Association
This message is from: "Margaret Strachan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I can't see that a Fjord Breeder's Association would serve any purpose that the NFHR can't at the national level. The breeder's associations that I am familiar with are for race horse breeders at the local level. They serve as a local voice at the state and national level (politically) for the breeders and offer incentive programs for California bred horses. For example $50 paid in to the incentive program brings you an extra 20% of the purse if your horse wins, and 15% of a place or show. One important function of the local breeder's association is they maintain a colostrum bank and a list of available nurse mares. Fjord Horse breeder's could choose to form local organizations to help support each other, but that is already done informally. I don't see any reason to undermine the NFHR and possibly confuse potential owners. Just my 2 cents worth... Margaret Strachan Village Farm Nuevo, CA Where it is hot--90 degrees today--Summer is around the corner.
Re: BREEDER'S ASSOCIATION
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 99-05-12 06:01:23 EDT, you write: << Hello from Carol Rivoire at Beaver Dam Farm Fjords in Nova Scotia - For a long time now I've thought that the formation of a BREEDER'S ASSOCIATION would be beneficial to breeders and to the breed. Such an organization would be able to address the needs specific to breeders (new breeders, established breeders, maybe even non-professional breeders.) All that could be decided by the interested participants. Such an organization could, for example, do co-operative advertising. It could also speak with a united voice to the NFHR on issues of importance to breeders. It could organize Evaluations . . . sponsor them even. >> ** Hi List from warm So. Calif. ( 85 ) I wanted to comment on this idea, brought out by Carol. In my heart, Im NOT sure why this would be a BAD idea, but for the life of me, I cant figure out why another and new group would be nessessary, or wanted.given the efforts of recent years to bring the seperate Norwegian Fjord groups TOGETHER. I have a couple of questions: What in the world is a non-professional breeder? Is this another " Back Yard Breeder " catagory.or just implying that someone dosnt make their SOLE income from breeding Norwegian Fjords? I for one, have met many Fjord breeders in the last 10 years, and not one of them can claim that they only breed these horses for a living. So, given that most ( if not all ) of us fall into the non-professional breeder catagory, what would a different and seperate group, do to help me? I already co-op advertising here in So. Calif. with another breeder, and they also offer me WEB space for my Stallion and Fjords for sale on their site.This only takes communication, and friendship. No reason to compete here, this California market is starved for nice Fjords, and neither of us has ever advertised any of our stock, without selling rather quickly. I also wonder if, " speaking to the NFHR in a United Voice " is not already occuring? With the access we all have to the BOD, and the Herald, and this list, not to mention the chat groups, communication is better in the Fjord horse world than it has ever been. Sometimes I wonder if the INTERNET hasnt brought all of us together in a way, that 10 years ago, just didnt happen. I for one, have sure met alot of you here. One last thought, ( promise ) I can only guess at the amount of work it takes to put on an Evaluation. I know that it took the Midwest Fjord club quite awhile and TONS of work to put a great one together. I would think that anyone undertaking this huge amount of responsibility would LOVE any kind of hand, taking care of millions of details. If someone was interested, Im sure you could help, and Im not sure of how, logistically, a group of professional ( ?) and non-professional breeders would be able to pull off putting an Evaluation together, given that is is held locally SOMEWHERE.and where would the responsibility fall to delagate the tons of local details ? The idea of a Breeder group, sponsoring its own Evaluation is a dangerious one. One needs only to look at the implications of one breeder ( example ), active in sponsoring its own Evaluation, and having his own horses win..EVEN IF HE HAPPENS TO OWN WONDERFUL FJORDS.it could ( unfairly with the best of intentions ) turn into a situation similar to the Paint Horse world, where we spent years sucking up to just the right judges, trainers, and had to pay 200.00 for 10 min. time to have someone else lead our horse into a show ring, to have a chance at a big ribbon. No thanks, been there, done that. I am NOT implying that any of our fine Evaluators, or Breeders have done that, but to sponser your own game, is a little bit risky, given that the most active people prob. WOULD have the best Evaluated horsesas they are spending the most time and money to promote the breed, therefore have the best bred horses. ( Just a guess ) * kind of like asking the fox to mind the chicken house. Just my .05 cents.flame away ! Lisa Pedersen Pedersens Fjords Norco, Ca. PAV FJORDS
Re: A Fjord Breeder's Association
This message is from: "Mike May, Registrar NFHR" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> At 07:07 PM 5/11/99 -0800, you wrote: Carol is talking about something very different from the Registries...The Norwegian Fjord Horse Registry and the Norwegian fjord Horse Association in the US, and the Canadian fjord Horse Association in Canada. I think there is also presently a Fjord Breeders Association, or there was at one timeDid you know about that, Carol? some of the Fjord Breeders got disgruntled with the two US organizations and formed their own. That is actually the third "Registry" in the US for Fjords. The name is The "Fjord Breeders of America" or FBA. So yes it is a pretty close name and would certainly make for confusion. There has been talk of a "Breeders Committee" recently also. That would be a part of the NFHR though and not a separate group. Mike === Norwegian Fjord Horse Registry Mike May, Registrar Voice 716-872-4114 FAX 716-787-0497 http://www.nfhr.com mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re[2]: A Fjord Breeder's Association
This message is from: Steve McIlree <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Carol-- Tuesday, May 11, 1999, you wrote: > For a long time now I've thought that the formation of a BREEDER'S > ASSOCIATION would be beneficial to breeders and to the breed. Such > an organization would be able to address the needs specific to > breeders ... Such an organization could, for example, do > co-operative advertising. It could also speak with a united voice to > the NFHR on issues of importance to breeders. It could organize > Evaluations . . . sponsor them even. Just curious, what good would yet *another* organization do for the breed? What interests could be exclusive to breeders? Does your suggestion that the association speak with a united voice to the NFHR imply an adversarial position? If so why do you feel that is necessary? Are you suggesting that there be two sets of evaluations, or that the Registry get out of the evaluation process? Can you offer an example of any other horse breed that has a separate registry and breeders' association? Is there any reason that breeders could not do co-operative advertising without an association? Do you really believe that any horse organization which holds itself aloof from its end-users can be successful? -- Steve McIlree & Cynthia Madden -- Pferd, Keyah, Skipper, Tank -- Omaha, Nebraska, USA The horse has so docile a nature, that he would always rather do right than wrong, if he can only be taught to distinguish one from the other. --George Melville(1821-1878)
Re: A Fjord Breeder's Association
This message is from: Jean Ernest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Bonnie, Carol is talking about something very different from the Registries...The Norwegian Fjord Horse Registry and the Norwegian fjord Horse Association in the US, and the Canadian fjord Horse Association in Canada. I think there is also presently a Fjord Breeders Association, or there was at one timeDid you know about that, Carol? some of the Fjord Breeders got disgruntled with the two US organizations and formed their own. I personally think maybe it would be opening a can of worms to create A "Fjord Breeders Association" and discriminate against those of us who have just one or two mares and occasionally produce a foal. So what will be the criteria to be a member? Owning and standing a Stallion? Then Everybody is going to want to keep a stud colt ungelded so they can qualify! Let's not create any exclusive clubs for the well-to-do who can afford to buy and keep a large number of breeding stock on an expensive farm with lots of acreage, etc.and can hire a staff of trainers and helpers. I would dearly love to be able to have a herd of mares and a couple Stallions on a large farm, with adequate help, not for personal agrandizemnt (sp?), but because I dearly love the breed, but I must keep my herd down to a size that I can handle myself with limited funds on my little ten acre lot. Well, that is just some thoughts that bubbled up when I started to answer Bonnie's post.surprized even me that I feel that strongly! All four of my Fjords are Canadian registered, with only Stella(II) also being registered in the NFHR. I haven't decided whether I'll register Adel with NFHR yet. Jean in Fairbanks, Alaska Where It was BEAUTIFUL! 65 degrees and sunny Today! And I plalyed with my Fjords! At 06:50 PM 5/11/99 -, you wrote: >This message is from: "B. Hendricks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Hi: >Wanted to ask... so the Fjords are all registered in Norway? I guess I >didn't realize there wasn't an association in N.A. >Bonnie >Horse Portraits, Oil Paintings, Prints, Books >http://www.hendricksgallery.com >http://members.xoom.com/BHendricks/Gallery1.html > > >- Original Message - >From: Arthur Rivoire <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 1999 7:32 PM >Subject: Re: A Fjord Breeder's Association > > >> This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Arthur Rivoire) >> >> Hello from Carol Rivoire at Beaver Dam Farm Fjords in Nova Scotia >> For a long time now I've thought that the formation of a BREEDER'S >> ASSOCIATION would be beneficial to breeders and to the breed. >(snipped) > > > > Jean Ernest Fairbanks, Alaska [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: A Fjord Breeder's Association
This message is from: "B. Hendricks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hi: Wanted to ask... so the Fjords are all registered in Norway? I guess I didn't realize there wasn't an association in N.A. Bonnie Horse Portraits, Oil Paintings, Prints, Books http://www.hendricksgallery.com http://members.xoom.com/BHendricks/Gallery1.html - Original Message - From: Arthur Rivoire <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 1999 7:32 PM Subject: Re: A Fjord Breeder's Association > This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Arthur Rivoire) > > Hello from Carol Rivoire at Beaver Dam Farm Fjords in Nova Scotia > For a long time now I've thought that the formation of a BREEDER'S > ASSOCIATION would be beneficial to breeders and to the breed. (snipped)
Re: A Fjord Breeder's Association
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Arthur Rivoire) Hello from Carol Rivoire at Beaver Dam Farm Fjords in Nova Scotia - For a long time now I've thought that the formation of a BREEDER'S ASSOCIATION would be beneficial to breeders and to the breed. Such an organization would be able to address the needs specific to breeders (new breeders, established breeders, maybe even non-professional breeders.) All that could be decided by the interested participants. Such an organization could, for example, do co-operative advertising. It could also speak with a united voice to the NFHR on issues of importance to breeders. It could organize Evaluations . . . sponsor them even. I do not have the time, particularly in this season, to organize such a group. I think the first thing to do is determine if there's an interest, which is why I'm putting out feelers now. I've had the formation of a Breeder's Association in the back of my mind for several years, and from time to time have questioned other breeders about it. All have had a positive reaction and have seen the need, but nothing has been done so far. Just today I spoke with a very experienced horsewoman who is getting into Fjord breeding with some very high quality stock, and she also saw the need and logic of forming such a group, and her reaction has prompted me to broach the subject via the List. So, any breeders out there who read this, I'd appreciate very much if you'd give me your opinions, pro or con. A Fjord Breeder's Association does not as yet exist. Therefore, there are no rules and no mandate as yet. All that will be determined by the members. It can be as broad, or exclusionary, as members decide. "Exclusionary?" For example, what constitues a bona fide breeder? To be decided! Best Regards, Carol Rivoire Carol and Arthur Rivoire Beaver Dam Farm Fjords II R.R. 7 Pomquet Antigonish County Nova Scotia B2G 2L4 902 386 2304 http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/beaverdf
