Re: stubborness
This message is from: sandra church [EMAIL PROTECTED] Amen to posts about the fjords ability to handle unusual situations even if stubborness is part of the procedure. In the past 2 years of trail riding Loki, we've had 2 turkey vultures to burst out of the underbrush right under his nose and one leaping groundhog (which scurried down a tree then took a flying leap into the underbrush just as we approached) to startle us. Loki did turn around each time and take 1 or 2 strides then stop and decide that he had expended enough energy already so our ride continued quietly. None of my other horses would've stopped or have calmed down so quickly. Loki has also been in a wedding (carrying a medieval bride) and been to church as a circuit riding horse. He can be a gem! My friends love for him to lead the trail rides because he is so calm and has a calming influence on their mounts.Sandra in Va. Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
Stubborness and Espen
This message is from: Nancy Hotovy [EMAIL PROTECTED] I am interested also in the history of the name Espen. We named one of our colts Espen (he's 4 now) after a downhill skier that competed in the Olympics when they were in Norway. He was also in the Opening Ceremony's during last years Olympics. As far as geldings/mares and stubborness, I think we're back to individual horses. We have one gelding who has never made a wrong move in his life and has been used extensively from logging to exhibitions to shows to parades. He is Mr. Steady and will put up with anything. I also have another gelding (my favorite) who will test everyone who would ever touch him. He is definately not a horse for a beginner by any means, however it does not mean he is not usable. I don't think he's missed a Blue Earth show in 10 years, is in all our hitches and rides wonderful - - but he will test a new rider to see who is really smarter. That wonderful Fjord mentality! The same as any other breed, every horse is an individual. Nancy from Michigan
Re: stubborness from being spoiled
This message is from: Jean Gayle [EMAIL PROTECTED] Right on Brian. Jean Gayle -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thursday, March 25, 1999 9:54 PM Subject: stubborness from being spoiled This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Here's a slightly different perspective on why Fjords may be thought of as being stubborn. I believe more Fjords are raised spoiled than are many other horses. Well-meaning owners shower the Fjords with love (which is good) but don't know how to teach them to respect people (which is bad). This results in friendly, loving Fjords who are used to getting their own way. Brian Jacobsen, DVM Norwegian Fjordhest Ranch Salisbury, North Carolina
Re: stubborness from being spoiled
This message is from: Laurie Pittman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Agreed Brian. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thursday, March 25, 1999 9:55 PM Subject: stubborness from being spoiled This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Here's a slightly different perspective on why Fjords may be thought of as being stubborn. I believe more Fjords are raised spoiled than are many other horses. Well-meaning owners shower the Fjords with love (which is good) but don't know how to teach them to respect people (which is bad). This results in friendly, loving Fjords who are used to getting their own way. Brian Jacobsen, DVM Norwegian Fjordhest Ranch Salisbury, North Carolina
stubborness from being spoiled
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Here's a slightly different perspective on why Fjords may be thought of as being stubborn. I believe more Fjords are raised spoiled than are many other horses. Well-meaning owners shower the Fjords with love (which is good) but don't know how to teach them to respect people (which is bad). This results in friendly, loving Fjords who are used to getting their own way. Brian Jacobsen, DVM Norwegian Fjordhest Ranch Salisbury, North Carolina
stubborness
This message is from: Dave McWethy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Maybe we can put stubbornness on the Myth side, except that for appearances, it is so. On the Truth side, you have to remember that these horses have been around a long, long time, before they could rely on humans, whom they saw at a primitive stage of being humans, to safely guide them. Their ancient brains tell them they should be skeptical that humans' intentions for them are better than what they can come up with on their own. They need to be convinced that we have common interest, and that humans can be trusted. And at one time or another, or more, none of us should be trusted by the horses, from their point of view. Living on the food chain like the rest of us plants and animals, no wonder they have survived to the 20th century. Along with the stripe down their back, they have retained willful behaviors. No pushovers, these Fjords. Because of these strong wills, I imagine, risking a human point of view, they have a confidence that stands out in comparison to many other breeds. They are willful, and in your face, because they are not afraid of humans. But I have almost never seen unkindness in a Fjord, towards people. They are willing to give us a chance, and if we need it, several more. If eventually we figure out how to ask, they will do almost anything for us. They will work for us with the greatest stubbornness there is. If they are stubborn, I wouldn't want them any other way.
Stubborness
This message is from: Cynthia_Madden/OAA/UNO/[EMAIL PROTECTED] We have four horses - our first two, Morgans, our next acquisition, a Trakehner, and our last, Tank the Fjord. In an intelligence comparison we rate the Trakhener and the Fjord at the top and the Morgans *much* lower. I think this is result of stricter, long-term European standards of breeding where there are higher expectations of horses than you get with American relatively careless breeding practices (just my opinion - but I used love Quarter Horses as a kid and couldn't believe what had happened to them when we got back into horses twenty years later). This does not mean we love or appreciate our Morgans any less! - but we often appreciate and have to cope with the intelligence of the Trak and the Fjord. I think what some consider the stubborness factor is having to deal with a more intelligent animal which causes us to have rethink our approaches and relationship to them and become a little smarter and more horse savvy ourselves. So Fact: Fjords are, overall, smarter than the average horse! I also agree with Marsha Jo and Beth's comments. Cynthia Madden Omaha, Nebraska USA [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Stubborness
This message is from: Anneli Sundkvist [EMAIL PROTECTED] I think Marsha's contribution to the 'stubborness-thread' was great! Very few horse people consider the circumstanses that have formed every single breed when they talk about breed characteristics, which I think we need to remind people of when they talk about 'stubborn' or 'fat' fjords. Personally, I can think of few breeds (ok - I'm generalizing) more suitable as trail horses than fjords. They carry much weight, have a 'cool' dsiposition and are smooth-gaited. And in my experience, most of them stay with you even if you let them loose (e.g. for mushroom picking or having a cup of coffee). I've picked a lot of wild mushroms while Tina has been grazing next to me and she has NEVER gotten the idea to take off and leave me (or the grass?). I sometimes think that fjords bond in a different way with their owners than many other breeds (generalizing again, I know). They're a bit dog-like, aren't they? But of course - I'm a fjord fan and a lot is a matter of training, but anyway... Regards Anneli in Sweden where spring seem to be on it's way at last!
Stubborness/Determined
This message is from: Laurie Pittman [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'm so glad to see these topics brought up!! Some people would call Tor stubborn, but I've come to realize that he's not. He is, however, the most determined and strong willed horse I've ever had. He is totally convinced that the world should go by his rules and he's quite willing to share that opinion with you. He also knows darn well how strong he is and how to use it to his advantage if he thinks he can get away with it. And there is little doubt in my mind that he does *think*. Thank God we've come a long way in learning to work together. Also, Tor can be very creative (unfortunately for me) when it comes to amusing himself. I can no longer use those white step-in posts that they use for portable hot pens. I used to use them to section off the pasture, but Tor thinks it's fun to go down the line and pull them up, without breaking the 3 strands of hot wire that's on them, and then proceeds to destroy them! I had him in one of these pens at a clinic once when a woman came up to me and told me my horse was being *bad*. I looked around the corner of the trailer and saw that he had a hold of a post and had it bent half way to the ground before he finally got zapped. He just let go of it and looked at us like Wht? *sigh* I'm very pleased to say that he did stay in the pen, (yes, I did have my doubts). That's all for now : ) Laurie
Re: Stubborness
This message is from: Nathan Lapp [EMAIL PROTECTED] It's a smart kind of stubbornness. Viola seems to contemplate her right to make *some* decisions on her own. Whether she stays in the barn, for instance, while Onalee goes for riding. When she gets scolded for trying to push through the gate she'll sulk for half an hour. Smart girl. My cows will snort or shake their heads if they don't get their way but they don't have the brains to stay on the subject for half an hour. There's a difference in Fjords, too. My neices say Viola's yearling, Tulie, is stubborn. They like Onalee's baby, Tianna, better. She's sweet and listens more easily to their youthful voices. But Tulie is a very thoughtful little horse, I think, and simply wants to retain the right to decide before she obeys. It will be interesting to see how this difference in character will affect their more advanced training. By the way, I'm enjoying the arriving foals stories! Keep them coming. Barbara Lyn
Re: Stubborness
This message is from: Starfire Farm, LLC [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'd been talking to people about Fjords and several people (who don't own them) have told me that they seem to have a stubborn streak. Fact or Myth I'd like to hear from some of you on this subject. Lynn Kreger, Muskegon MI I agree with Marsha, that fjords tend to think before reacting (though not always!) Rather than say stubborn, I would characterize a fjord as determined. They know what they want, which is to be comfortable and to eat (that's probably not the right order!) As an example of determinedness, one of our geldings discovered that the hot wire was shorted, and was reaching through the board fence to some greening grass on the other side of the fence. I came into the shed row to see him push against the board, and hear the groan and squeal of nails exiting their holding places in the posts. Kjell heard it too, and he pushed even harder, determined to move that board! I heard a crack of wood before I could fire off a rock. The rock deterred him long enough for me to find my fence tools and to close him in a smaller run while I mended the fence, and the hot wire! I've seen horses take advantage of a broken fence before, but I'd never seen one realize that the fence was going to break, then take advantage by breaking it! Kjell hasn't been started under saddle yet, but is learning to be responsive and sensitive in hand. With him, as with some of our other fjords, it takes a little more repetition to show them how to feel the halter rope, and to follow the weight of the rope rather than waiting for a pull. Once they get it, it's there for life (unless the person handling them is not sensitive themselves, then they go right back to being what I call dull, it's not the horse's fault!) It's taken another gelding a little longer to be more sensitive to the bit. At one time I thought the sensitivity wasn't going to come, but I kept my patience, and just when I thought it was never going to happen, voila! He was a light as a feather, and has stayed that way, as long as I am light and consistent with him. He had always been very sensitive to my leg and weight aids. So, I would't call it stubborness. It definately has to do with thinking ablility and the knowledge the horse has of his strength. Fjords are just a little less easy to buffalo into thinking that we are stronger than they are. I shouldn't put it that way, because they are also very willing horses, and love to please you! They're amazing horses to work with, have been and will continue to be, a lot of fun. Beth Starfire Farm, in beautiful, greening, Colorado, where, I'm sorry to say, we've been enjoying some gorgeous, dry, spring like weather for about a week ;-)
Re: Stubborness
This message is from: Marsha Jo Hannah [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd been talking to people about Fjords and several people (who don't own them) have told me that they seem to have a stubborn streak. Fact or Myth Lynn Kreger, Muskegon MI I hear this about my other chosen equine, too---a donkey. I'm of the opinion that most horsemen (I'll use the term loosely, since not everyone who thinks of himself as such has earned the title) are too quick to label an animal as stubborn. Rather than working with the animal the way it is, they denigrate it for not being the way their limited eqperience causes them to expect it to be. Fjords (and donkeys) have a temperament that was molded by different forces than most light horse breeds. Most of the horse breeds evolved on grassy plains, where food was plentiful, and if a predator threatened, running far-far away was a good solution. But, that doesn't work for equines that evolved in rocky or icy areas with sparse graze. Running at the drop of a snowflake wastes precious, hard-to-find calories and/or water, and running blindly in rough country leads to injuries, which in turn makes you predator bait. Consequently, the Fjords (and donkeys) that survived best were the ones that stopped, looked the situation over, decided whether running was appropriate (vs holding still to blend into the scenery, or even fighting), then planned the next move, and acted accordingly. Most horsemen aren't used to working with an equine that will (or even can) think. So, they try to frighten the animal into doing what they want (moving), then blame the animal when the animal locks up or fights instead. I find my Fjords (and donkey) to be quite co-operative---once they understand what I want, and once they trust me not to trick them into anything that's not in their best interests. If I try to do something that's really not a good idea, they'll tell me so. Since I'm still rather green, I value that---I like having a horse that I can point at a tricky spot in the trail and essentially tell him, We're going over there; you figure out how, and he works out the details. Marsha Jo HannahMurphy must have been a horseman-- [EMAIL PROTECTED] anything that can go wrong, will! 30 mi SSE of San Francisco, Calif. ---
Re: Stubborness
This message is from: Jean Gayle [EMAIL PROTECTED] True for some. My boy that I lost could get stubborn if I overlooked him for awhile, never anything serious. I think the pony side comes into play. But there are two things that seem to dominate the actions of the Fjord, in my mind, that is avoiding pain and eating. so the avoiding pain issue works quite well with a reminder tap and a sharp word with the conscientious ones. This fellow I now have is very good under saddle but needs retraining from the ground as he has been spoiled. A crop reminds him but unfortunately in this case does not endear me to him. Jean Gayle Aberdeen -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wednesday, March 24, 1999 8:08 AM Subject: Stubborness This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi List Members, I've enjoyed reading the list and thought I'd jump in with a question. As you know I don't own a Fjord, YET, but an considering the breed for a trail horse. I'd been talking to people about Fjords and several people (who don't own them) have told me that they seem to have a stubborn streak. Fact or Myth I'd like to hear from some of you on this subject. Lynn Kreger, Muskegon MI
Re: Stubborness
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] When I was in New Mexico and called my friend/trainer here in Oregon to tell her I was buying Juniper her exact response was Why do you want to buy a Fjord? They're STUBBORN!. I smiled. She hadn't met Juniper. When we moved back to Oregon we boarded with her till we bought our property. She has changed her opinion about Fjords, since meeting getting to know Juniper. Is now wondering about using one in her handicapped program. I've got a quarter horse filly (for sale) and a fjord filly. I'd say of the two of them, the fjord has a much better mind than the quarter horse and is so much more trainable. I ask her, teach her, and she responds. The quarter horse is kind of a twit. Tell her something once, twice, three times, and she eventually gets it, but is more recalcitrant than my fjord baby. Pamela
Re: Stubborness
This message is from: Jean Ernest [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hey, They're not stubborn, just opinionated! And you have to change their opinion! My older mare Stella (now 22) always felt SHE knew more than I did, as she'd raised 6 babies by the time I got her. If I treat her with respect and don't try to bully her she comes around beautifully! (Of course, when I got her she DID know a lot more than I did!) It's amazing how much better she is as I learn more and more!LOL Jean in Fairbanks, Alaska, where the melt goes on! +45 degrees today and SUNNY! Thought we may have mentioned that-yes, they can be stubborn! But you just be patient, and they will come around. Sometimes they have to be persuaded to do what YOU want. Jean Ernest Fairbanks, Alaska [EMAIL PROTECTED]
stubborness other myths
This message is from: Jon A. Ofjord [EMAIL PROTECTED] It's interesting to note that you mentioned stubborness as a trait (fact or fiction?) of Fjord horses. We are sending one of our horses to a trainer next week, and when I asked her if she had ever worked with Fjords before, the first words out of her mouth were I've heard they can be stubborn. I told her if she felt uncomfortable working with these horses, to please let me know. I also had a fistfull of information printed from this list regarding starting young Fjords. Hopefully, she will read it. I'm sure trainers (are you out there?) love to have clients walk up to them with information on how to train THEIR horses. This is the first time we've used a trainer, so we're hoping it will be a good experience. All she has to go on is her reputation, which I've heard is good. Another myth that was pointed out to us, was when someone asked us if our horses weren't kind of primitive. I suppose they figured they were just off the plains of Mongolia due to their resemblance Prezewalski's horse. Another myth: No, we don't dye or paint the stripe down the mane, they are born that way.
Re: Stubborness
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Lynn, Thought we may have mentioned that-yes, they can be stubborn! But you just be patient, and they will come around. Sometimes they have to be persuaded to do what YOU want. Will be interested to see what others on the list say! Have a cold now (Both of us) and am feeling icky! All for now, Bernie
Stubborness
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi List Members, I've enjoyed reading the list and thought I'd jump in with a question. As you know I don't own a Fjord, YET, but an considering the breed for a trail horse. I'd been talking to people about Fjords and several people (who don't own them) have told me that they seem to have a stubborn streak. Fact or Myth I'd like to hear from some of you on this subject. Lynn Kreger, Muskegon MI
