Re: [Flashcoders] @#$% New iPhone Developer Agr eement Bans the Use of Adobe’s Flash-to-iPhon e Compiler
After all this discussion, I've decided to suck it up and give
these a read:
http://developer.apple.com/iphone/library/referencelibrary/
GettingStarted/Learning_Objective-C_A_Primer/index.html#//apple_ref/
doc/uid/TP40007594
http://developer.apple.com/iphone/library/documentation/Cocoa/
Conceptual/ObjectiveC/Introduction/introObjectiveC.html#//apple_ref/
doc/uid/TP30001163
If you can't beat 'em, join 'em. Plus it may turn out to be pretty
fun/exciting. Except the part where you get rejected from the
AppStore ;)
bottoms up!
@implementation MyClass
- (id)initWithString:(NSString *)aName {
if (self = [super init]) {
name = [aName copy];
}
return self;
}
+ (MyClass *)createMyClassWithString: (NSString *)aName {
return [[[self alloc] initWithString:aName] autorelease];
}
@end
Wooohooo, now I see how much more control we could have by choosing
Objective-C instead of AS, so so so much more control in the way
things are written down. Can we ask for a premium in terms of
pricing ? because the code is cleaner you know ... apple wise.
I have a serious example where one client needed an application: he
did contact an approved iPhone application developper: the guy made a
whole crap out of the project, making it unusable. That was laughable
given he was some post thesis engineer and given the price he'd asked
for developping this app. Then we contacted some 'smart' AS3
developper, who made it to the iPhone in a clean and functionnal way.
Amazing story isn't it ? My conclusion: I will never ever ask some
iPhone engineer to develop something again except for lists, buttons
and panes rotating :) Too expensive all in all, and there's a chance
that quality will get low (if you want to do anything more than
displaying lists and buttons + scrolling panes).
Hey, that's cool but still not rad. We should all learn assembler /
machine based languages, and stop doing cosmetics with either C/C++/
ObjC etc ... these are all interpreters. And Assembler is not that hard.
The iOS forcing people to learn Objective C is some dictatorial
concept. I am glad some are going down this route, I am glad for them.
Cedric (Flashcoder huh?)
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Re: [Flashcoders] @#$% New iPhone Developer Agr eement Bans the Use of Adobe’s Flash-to-iPhon e Compiler
Heh, yeah maybe we can invent a AS-C from learning it. lol Karl On Apr 13, 2010, at 3:44 AM, Carl Welch wrote: After all this discussion, I've decided to suck it up and give these a read: http://developer.apple.com/iphone/library/referencelibrary/ GettingStarted/Learning_Objective-C_A_Primer/index.html#//apple_ref/ doc/uid/TP40007594 http://developer.apple.com/iphone/library/documentation/Cocoa/ Conceptual/ObjectiveC/Introduction/introObjectiveC.html#//apple_ref/ doc/uid/TP30001163 If you can't beat 'em, join 'em. Plus it may turn out to be pretty fun/exciting. Except the part where you get rejected from the AppStore ;) bottoms up! Carl. On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 1:22 AM, John McCormack wrote: The programs on my CDs were written in C++. They make fast, powerful, use of graphics but took a very long time to write. The code in AS3 and C++ isn't that dissimilar. Learning the language isn't the problem. Bringing assets to the screen is difficult in C++. AS3 enables me to do that much more easily. I am always going to use C++ and use Visual Studio's powerful debugger for my most powerful hungry programs, but Adobe's AS3 is a great way to work. John Jon Bradley wrote: Learn C, C++ or Objective-C. They are not that hard, you have much more control ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders -- Carl Welch http://www.carlwelch.com 805.403.4819 ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Karl DeSaulniers Design Drumm http://designdrumm.com ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] @#$% New iPhone Developer Agr eement Bans the Use of Adobe’s Flash-to-iPhon e Compiler
I would never recommend an enterprise client to take that direction. Want to do a little game or don't care much about being able to debug, or have to rely on a middle-man? By all means that's fine but clients I deal with generally would not appreciate that direction. This whole thing has nothing to do with Adobe. Too may folks are taking this personally. I guess I am not as passionate as others in the Flash community about this. I'll move along and develop however it's accepted. Again, it's their device and their platform. Apple creates excellent consumer devices and is a market worth targeting, regardless of the limitations they impose. They are not standing alone in their decision to limit the way software is written for their devices. Blame them or not, they have the right to choose that path. Of course, they will also have to deal with the consequences of those decisions. my 0.02. - j On Apr 12, 2010, at 11:45 AM, Glen Pike wrote: IMHO, I don't think people have an issue with the correct methodology of making apps - if that were the case we might still be in the dark ages of development. Flash gave and still gives a lot of people the power to develop ideas for programs quickly, without having to wade through rubbish like DirectX and other stuffy system API's. If I want to develop crap applications for the app store, I should be able to do it in the language and on the system of my choice. If I want to develop good applications for the app store, I should go and buy some books on the language and system of my choice, then develop aforementioned apps. Your point about the compiler maybe true, but hey, there are plenty of people writing compilers out there. Surely it's my choice whether I write something that runs like a snail and does not make any money. Jon Bradley wrote: I wouldn't call that amazing – I would call that whining. No offense to Lee, of course. Although all of us would love to develop iPhone and iPad applications using the Flash platform, frankly that is not a proper methodology for developing for these systems, in my opinion. Learn C, C++ or Objective-C. They are not that hard, you have much more control and you are not at the beck and call of a translation governed by something like LLVM, which you have no control over. - j On Apr 12, 2010, at 5:00 AM, allandt bik-elliott (thefieldcomic.com) wrote: thanks lee brimelow for this amazing post http://theflashblog.com/?p=1888 ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] @#$% New iPhone Developer Agr eement Bans the Use of Adobe’s Flash-to-iPhon e Compiler
I wouldn't call that amazing – I would call that whining. No offense to Lee, of course. Although all of us would love to develop iPhone and iPad applications using the Flash platform, frankly that is not a proper methodology for developing for these systems, in my opinion. Learn C, C++ or Objective-C. They are not that hard, you have much more control and you are not at the beck and call of a translation governed by something like LLVM, which you have no control over. - j On Apr 12, 2010, at 5:00 AM, allandt bik-elliott (thefieldcomic.com) wrote: thanks lee brimelow for this amazing post http://theflashblog.com/?p=1888 ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] @#$% New iPhone Developer Agr eement Bans the Use of Adobe’s Flash-to-iPhon e Compiler
For those interested. All hope is not lost if you want to still make money using CS5 for iPhone apps. Just a different avenue, but a more fitting one considering the current circumstances and stance Apple is taking. These guys have been dealing with what we are dealing with now since the iPhone came out. http://blog.iphone-dev.org/ My point being that Apple doesn't really have the strong hold they think they do when it comes to their SDK. Cydia Store is a jailbroken app that lets you sell your own applications. They don't take more than Apple would from the sales. I think its like a 30% Cydia Store - 70% Developer split. Same as Apple. The app uses paypal for purchasing as well. You can also develop your app in CS5 and it work. Oh... and no developer fees.. (I don't believe) They are also talking about jailbreaking iPads. :)) Might be worth some peoples time to research. Best, Karl On Apr 12, 2010, at 4:00 AM, allandt bik-elliott (thefieldcomic.com) wrote: thanks lee brimelow for this amazing post http://theflashblog.com/?p=1888 On 11 April 2010 23:00, Mattheis, Erik (MIN - WSW) < ematth...@webershandwick.com> wrote: OK, that sort of makes sense - the "sort of" because cross-platform compiled apps can already be accepted or rejected at the app store level. If money from developers was a major cash flow avenue, this would make total sense but compared to the app store, it's not, AFAIK. It seems it would be a financial benefit for Apple to have a larger pool of apps to choose to sell or not, regardless of how they were developed. Here's another "settling old scores" theory, but between Apple and Adobe themselves as opposed to the Apple vs MS theory I recently suggested, "In 1996 when Apple was seemingly on the ropes, Adobe made a crucial business decision and one that is coming back to bite them in the ass. They declared that their primary development platform would be Windows; subsequently, every new application or major revision of a product was introduced for Windows first and followed months later, sometimes never at all, by a Mac version." http://innerdaemon.wordpress.com/2010/04/10/sorry-adobe-you-screwed- yourself/ From: flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com [ flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com] On Behalf Of Dave Watts [ dwa...@figleaf.com] Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2010 11:13 AM To: Flash Coders List Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] @#$% New iPhone Developer Agreement Bans the Use of Adobe’s Flash-to-iPhone Compiler A lot of outrage hass been expressed, but there has to be a "why". Why? Because it makes economic sense for Apple, and it hurts a company that Steve Jobs doesn't care for right now. If you don't allow cross-platform tools to work, developers have to explicitly choose your platform. Right now, Apple has the market advantage - lots of people have and want iPhones, iPads, etc. So developers will choose to build for the Apple platform rather than building for multiple platforms, giving the App Store a continuing competitive advantage. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ http://training.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VOSB) on GSA Schedule, and provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers, online, or onsite. ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Karl DeSaulniers Design Drumm http://designdrumm.com ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] @#$% New iPhone Developer Agr eement Bans the Use of Adobe’s Flash-to-iPhon e Compiler
What's truely lovely in this darkened story: Flash has a community!! Yes, it has :) Moreover, this community is stronger than what I thought I can now see how the community isn't only made of preachers and all. You can't get the flashonomy down. (and today I stumbled upon the WePad, another iPad pretender... may I say with an added appeal) Cedric Well said Lee Brimelow. Apple wielding the knife like this makes them look angry, isolated and desperate. John allandt bik-elliott (thefieldcomic.com) wrote: thanks lee brimelow for this amazing post http://theflashblog.com/?p=1888 ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] @#$% New iPhone Developer Agr eement Bans the Use of Adobe’s Flash-to-iPhon e Compiler
Here's an interesting point I forgot about (not the timing but these specific repercussions): But they announced it within 3 days (!!!) of the Adobe CS5 release. Meaning Adobe has no chance to do anything about it - information about "Flash on iPhone" is all over CS5 boxes, webpages, press releases, manuals... everywhere Ouch! On Apr 9, 2010, at 10:16 PM, Mattheis, Erik (MIN - WSW) wrote: Thanks for the Theory, Carl - I'd elevate it to a Law: It's about harnessing the iPhone/iPad momentum at any cost - forwarded your insight to my coworkers. But I wonder how much of this is based on the old MS vs Apple war - calculated on the fact there's probably more C++ than ActionScript developers out there. I've been an Apple devotee since the IIc and will probably continue to buy Macs for my home computer. Own stock too ... I've a "dumb" Sanyo phone I'm upgrading one of these months, and even before this news, it was obvious I should get an Android device. Apple has always been both a hardware *and* software giant despite its small market share, unique. But they seem to be gambling that on a gambit that they can leverage their present advantage in mobile market to finally be the king. I'm thinking and hoping this hubris will bite them back, or at least not succeed. As a developer, I've tried to wrap my mind around Objective C, and that effort made my brain hurt. AS2 to AS3 pleasantly stretched it. Dunno, I've a .NET colleague and if you asked him, he'd say he'd rather approach developing an iPhone app in C than ActionScript. Thus, repeating, maybe Apple is trying to burn Microsoft by harnessing the power of the developers they've cultivated through .NET. From: flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com [flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com ] On Behalf Of Mark Winterhalder [mar...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 8:45 PM To: Flash Coders List Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] @#$% New iPhone Developer Agreement Bans the Use of Adobe’s Flash-to-iPhone Compiler On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 3:00 AM, Carl Welch wrote: http://daringfireball.net/2010/04/ iphone_agreement_bans_flash_compiler I can't even explain how frustrated I am about apple. I just feel that Mr Job's is just giving the finger to so many people that have supported and promoted his company since day one. ugh. Frustrated doesn't even begin to describe it. My theory is that it's about vendor lock-in. Cross platform development offers a way around it -- if the exact same apps you payed for and, maybe more importantly, got used to, are available for Android, then you can switch away from iPhone OS. Mobile devices always are a compromise. You weight CPU performance against battery life, make a decision about screen size, and so on. Apple has a two-sizes-fit-all product line, while a number of manufacturers produce a growing variety of Android devices. ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
