[Flexradio] Thanks Mack

[AB2CD]

Hello,
Shelly and I would like to take a moment to thank Mack McCormick WB4MAK for 
taking time out of his busy schedule and going way out his way to help us set 
up our new Flex 5000 last Friday.  Mack's enthusiasm for the hobby and his 
leadership as the president of the North Fulton Amateur Radio League is the 
perfect example of what makes our hobby so great.  Thanks Mack for first 
showing us your radio and later being there just as UPS was delivering it.  I 
know there are others who have done similar things and our thanks go out to you 
as well.  I hope we can soon repay the kindness by conducting some "Mr. Wizard" 
type classes for your club.

Jim & Shelly Phillips 
AB 1&2 CD
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Re: [Flexradio] Book?

[Tom Thompson]

Dave,

I think Hayward's book covers everything you suggested, except 
PowerSDR.  Take a look for yourself.


Tom

Dave Gomberg wrote:

At 08:38 PM 8/1/2009, Tom Thompson wrote:
The ARRL publication:  "Experimental Methods in RF Design" by Wes 
Hayward, W7ZOI, Rick Campbell, KK7B, and Bob Larkin, W7PUA answers a 
lot of these questions plus chapter 10 deals very well with DSP.  
Also, Doug Smith's book "Digital Signal Processing Technology" is 
another excellent ARRL publication that deals with the fundamentals 
of DSP.


So this book spends a good deal of time on why SDRs need such 
intensive sw support in the PC?   That doesn't really seem like an RF 
issue to me   And the book I am suggesting has next to nothing on 
DSP.




Tom   W0IVJ

Dave Gomberg wrote:
This post has me convinced there is a good market for a book, 
provisionally titled:

SDR basics.

Chapters might be:  Hardware radios, Software radios, PowerSDR,
Hardware considerations, Helper software and addons.

Not really a nuts-and-bolts kind of book, the list is good for that.
More a conceptual
description so that the meaning of the elements is well understood, 
and there is a
link between buzz-words and acronyms on the one hand and concepts 
and block diagram

functions on the other.

I would think given the target market, e-publishing would be best.
Comments


At 03:02 AM 8/1/2009, Eddy Van de Velde wrote:
Using HRD v5.0 with com0com and VAC on SDR-1000 here. So, the delay 
on PTT is not an issue for the SDR-1000 only. The problem is not in 
the FlexRadio hard- or software.
Simply use two Virtual Com ports for HRD-DM780. One Vcom port for 
CAT control between PowerSDR and the second Vcom port for PTT 
control configuration in DM780. No delay at all on PTT if 
configured this way.

Eddy ON5UQ.
- Original Message - From: "Steven O'Neal" 


To: "Flex" 
Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2009 12:43 AM
Subject: [Flexradio] Anyone using HRD V 5.0
I took the plunge and updated my version 4.0 HRD to version 5.0 
and wanted to see if anyone else running a Flex has done so and 
what sort of problems they are having.

Problems I have encountered so far:
Long delay going into and out of Transmit   HRD Bug was already 
open, so I added a bit more for the Flex 3000 in use here.
I had a Blue Screen of Death before using an earlier version, 
current one is 2277.
Have not entirely figured out the setup for waterfall settings, 
tricks and tips appreciated.
Olivia operation seems to be somewhat improved, worked a ZL on 20 
the other night with a s/n of around -2 who was running Fldigi, 
which has been slightly problematic in the past.

So anyone else running Version 5 of HRD?



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Re: [Flexradio] Book?

[Dave Gomberg]

At 08:38 PM 8/1/2009, Tom Thompson wrote:
The ARRL publication:  "Experimental Methods in RF Design" by Wes 
Hayward, W7ZOI, Rick Campbell, KK7B, and Bob Larkin, W7PUA answers a 
lot of these questions plus chapter 10 deals very well with 
DSP.  Also, Doug Smith's book "Digital Signal Processing Technology" 
is another excellent ARRL publication that deals with the fundamentals of DSP.


So this book spends a good deal of time on why SDRs need such 
intensive sw support in the PC?   That doesn't really seem like an RF 
issue to me   And the book I am suggesting has next to nothing on DSP.




Tom   W0IVJ

Dave Gomberg wrote:
This post has me convinced there is a good market for a book, 
provisionally titled:

SDR basics.

Chapters might be:  Hardware radios, Software radios, PowerSDR,
Hardware considerations, Helper software and addons.

Not really a nuts-and-bolts kind of book, the list is good for that.
More a conceptual
description so that the meaning of the elements is well understood, 
and there is a
link between buzz-words and acronyms on the one hand and concepts 
and block diagram

functions on the other.

I would think given the target market, e-publishing would be best.
Comments


At 03:02 AM 8/1/2009, Eddy Van de Velde wrote:
Using HRD v5.0 with com0com and VAC on SDR-1000 here. So, the 
delay on PTT is not an issue for the SDR-1000 only. The problem is 
not in the FlexRadio hard- or software.
Simply use two Virtual Com ports for HRD-DM780. One Vcom port for 
CAT control between PowerSDR and the second Vcom port for PTT 
control configuration in DM780. No delay at all on PTT if configured this way.

Eddy ON5UQ.
- Original Message - From: "Steven O'Neal" 
To: "Flex" 
Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2009 12:43 AM
Subject: [Flexradio] Anyone using HRD V 5.0
I took the plunge and updated my version 4.0 HRD to version 5.0 
and wanted to see if anyone else running a Flex has done so and 
what sort of problems they are having.

Problems I have encountered so far:
Long delay going into and out of Transmit   HRD Bug was already 
open, so I added a bit more for the Flex 3000 in use here.
I had a Blue Screen of Death before using an earlier version, 
current one is 2277.
Have not entirely figured out the setup for waterfall settings, 
tricks and tips appreciated.
Olivia operation seems to be somewhat improved, worked a ZL on 20 
the other night with a s/n of around -2 who was running Fldigi, 
which has been slightly problematic in the past.

So anyone else running Version 5 of HRD?



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Re: [Flexradio] Book?

[Tom Thompson]

The ARRL publication:  "Experimental Methods in RF Design" by Wes 
Hayward, W7ZOI, Rick Campbell, KK7B, and Bob Larkin, W7PUA answers a lot 
of these questions plus chapter 10 deals very well with DSP.  Also, Doug 
Smith's book "Digital Signal Processing Technology" is another excellent 
ARRL publication that deals with the fundamentals of DSP.


Tom   W0IVJ

Dave Gomberg wrote:
This post has me convinced there is a good market for a book, 
provisionally titled:

SDR basics.

Chapters might be:  Hardware radios, Software radios, PowerSDR,
Hardware considerations, Helper software and addons.

Not really a nuts-and-bolts kind of book, the list is good for that.   
More a conceptual
description so that the meaning of the elements is well understood, 
and there is a
link between buzz-words and acronyms on the one hand and concepts and 
block diagram

functions on the other.

I would think given the target market, e-publishing would be best.   
Comments



At 03:02 AM 8/1/2009, Eddy Van de Velde wrote:
Using HRD v5.0 with com0com and VAC on SDR-1000 here. So, the delay 
on PTT is not an issue for the SDR-1000 only. The problem is not in 
the FlexRadio hard- or software.
Simply use two Virtual Com ports for HRD-DM780. One Vcom port for CAT 
control between PowerSDR and the second Vcom port for PTT control 
configuration in DM780. No delay at all on PTT if configured this way.

Eddy ON5UQ.
- Original Message - From: "Steven O'Neal" 


To: "Flex" 
Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2009 12:43 AM
Subject: [Flexradio] Anyone using HRD V 5.0
I took the plunge and updated my version 4.0 HRD to version 5.0 and 
wanted to see if anyone else running a Flex has done so and what 
sort of problems they are having.

Problems I have encountered so far:
Long delay going into and out of Transmit   HRD Bug was already 
open, so I added a bit more for the Flex 3000 in use here.
I had a Blue Screen of Death before using an earlier version, 
current one is 2277.
Have not entirely figured out the setup for waterfall settings, 
tricks and tips appreciated.
Olivia operation seems to be somewhat improved, worked a ZL on 20 
the other night with a s/n of around -2 who was running Fldigi, 
which has been slightly problematic in the past.

So anyone else running Version 5 of HRD?



--
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All addresses, phones, etc. at http://www.wcf.com/ham/info.html
- 



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[Flexradio] Flex 3000 & TX-OUT and Amp

[Larry da Ponte]

Want to know, when running PowerSDR and a Flex 3000, if there is
an "automatic" way to disable the Flex 3000's back pannel TX-OUT RCA jack
from keying during PowerSDR TUNE (10 watt carrier) so that my amp stays in
stand-by while my auto tuner tunes up??  I'll be running a SGC-500 amp,
LDG-1000Pro tuner, and a Flex 3000.  Thanks.

-- 

73's
N7BCP
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Re: [Flexradio] I made a book once

[Alan NV8A]

On 08/01/09 05:44 pm, FireBrick wrote:

--
Why do we say something is out of whack? What's a whack?
--


You had to whack it it get it into position, but now it's rebelled
against your whack and is out of position again?

73

Alan NV8A

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[Flexradio] re Roofing or Not Roofing Filters...

[Jim KJ7S]

 Thank you Brian, and I agree with you as to the "Not so humble Opinion" 
hihi
A very good splanation of the specialness of the Flex line of radios.  u r free 
to use the Cosellian Terminology hihi.
KJ7S Jim
"The Sum of Knowledge and Experience, is Wisdom"
  "Censor Yourself, Not Others"


>
Oh, I can see lots of confusion forming here. Actually the issue of
"roofing filters" is reasonably easy to understand. 
>
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[Flexradio] I made a book once

[FireBrick]

Well actually is was Gutenberg, I just checked for typos.
Darn type, p & q, b & d were always getting in the wrong bin.

I do prefer the format they now call 'Graphic Novels'.

--
Why do we say something is out of whack? What's a whack?
--
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@ http://hhweather.webhop.org


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Re: [Flexradio] Book?

[Neal Campbell]

The place I learned the most aby SDR (and I do not brag on that
amount) was from the articles in Radcom that Phil, VK6APH wrote  last
year. Radcom had a regular column on SDR for abt 18 months and Phil
explained things in a real simple and understandable way. When the
column finished I wrote and asked if he was going to write a book and
he indicated that there was some chance. I am copying him on this just
to show that we still are wanting a book!


Neal Campbell
Abroham Neal Software
Programming Services for Windows, OS X and Linux
www.abrohamnealsoftware.com
(540) 242 0911

LOW-COST COMPUTER FOR SDR at
http://www.abrohamnealsoftware.com/proddetail.php?prod=answc001




On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 5:25 PM,  wrote:
> See!  I knew it!   The smartest people are, indeed, here on the Flex
> Reflector!   Only here would you see the opinion that a "book" is not
>  obsolete and now nothing but an anachronism!   Gosh, if we had some such
> thing maybe it wouldn't be necessary for me to read every single reflector
> item that appears, print it, three hole punch and store!   Use for a
> "Book"---wow!  But I''m not so foolish as to expect everyone to accept the
> idea!
>
> 73
>
> Lee   K9WRU
>
> Quoting Dave Gomberg :
>>
>> At 01:19 PM 8/1/2009, Brian Lloyd wrote:
>> >More importantly, do you think anyone will bother to sit down and read
>> > it?
>>
>> I will tell you that everyone goes thru a similar learning curve and
>> that time after
>> time I see the same lessons and info repeated on the list.   If it
>> were all written
>> down in one place (not like the KB, which wonderful as it is, is more
>> nuts and bolts).
>> For example in the helper sw section on serial ports, the author
>> could explain why
>> serial ports were so widely used and how they have enjoyed a
>> renaissance with the
>> advent of virtual ports.   Then discuss the theoretical and practical
>> differences
>> of the various solutions as well as their pros and cons, and cost and
>> ordering info.
>> I think all that stuff brought together in one place would be
>> immensely valuable.
>> Maybe Tim Ellison should write it, because he has done a lot of the
>> work already???
>>
>>
>>
>> -- Dave Gomberg, San Francisco   NE5EE     gomberg1 at wcf dot com
>> All addresses, phones, etc. at http://www.wcf.com/ham/info.html
>> -
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Flexradio] Book?

[herbert3]

See!  I knew it!   The smartest people are, indeed, here on the Flex 
Reflector!   Only here would you see the opinion that a "book" is not  
obsolete and now nothing but an anachronism!   Gosh, if we had some 
such thing maybe it wouldn't be necessary for me to read every single 
reflector item that appears, print it, three hole punch and store!   
Use for a "Book"---wow!  But I''m not so foolish as to expect everyone 
to accept the idea!


73

Lee   K9WRU

Quoting Dave Gomberg :

At 01:19 PM 8/1/2009, Brian Lloyd wrote:
>More importantly, do you think anyone will bother to sit down and read it?

I will tell you that everyone goes thru a similar learning curve and
that time after
time I see the same lessons and info repeated on the list.   If it
were all written
down in one place (not like the KB, which wonderful as it is, is more
nuts and bolts). 


For example in the helper sw section on serial ports, the author
could explain why
serial ports were so widely used and how they have enjoyed a
renaissance with the
advent of virtual ports.   Then discuss the theoretical and practical
differences
of the various solutions as well as their pros and cons, and cost and
ordering info. 


I think all that stuff brought together in one place would be
immensely valuable. 


Maybe Tim Ellison should write it, because he has done a lot of the
work already???



-- Dave Gomberg, San Francisco   NE5EE gomberg1 at wcf dot com
All addresses, phones, etc. at http://www.wcf.com/ham/info.html
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Re: [Flexradio] Computer buy info needed

[k4elo]

I've never used an iMac John, but I can tell you that a Mac Pro running
XP SP3 under BootCamp is one powerful machine.  I have run as many as 8
applications at once including PSDR running and the cpu utilization is
still around 5 to 10%.  DPCs are very low as well.

Good luck with your choice.

73
Wayne

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Re: [Flexradio] FLEX 3000 HELP

[Dave Gomberg]

At 01:02 PM 8/1/2009, w...@aol.com wrote:
I am helping a friend with a new FLEX3000 , I have one up and 
running fine. On his new one everything fine except can't get the TX 
audio to work, PTT does switch tx on ok. Same mic settings , same 
software, mic,? and computer being used for both radios. Simply 
swapping radios. Any ideas?


Same mic connectors and cables?You are just swapping the blue 
boxes???  Has TX ever worked on the new box (on a different computer say)?




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Re: [Flexradio] Book?

[Dave Gomberg]

At 01:19 PM 8/1/2009, Brian Lloyd wrote:

More importantly, do you think anyone will bother to sit down and read it?


I will tell you that everyone goes thru a similar learning curve and 
that time after
time I see the same lessons and info repeated on the list.   If it 
were all written
down in one place (not like the KB, which wonderful as it is, is more 
nuts and bolts).


For example in the helper sw section on serial ports, the author 
could explain why
serial ports were so widely used and how they have enjoyed a 
renaissance with the
advent of virtual ports.   Then discuss the theoretical and practical 
differences
of the various solutions as well as their pros and cons, and cost and 
ordering info.


I think all that stuff brought together in one place would be 
immensely valuable.


Maybe Tim Ellison should write it, because he has done a lot of the 
work already???




--
Dave Gomberg, San Francisco   NE5EE gomberg1 at wcf dot com
All addresses, phones, etc. at http://www.wcf.com/ham/info.html
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Re: [Flexradio] Book?

[Peter G. Viscarola]

> 
> Huh. This is part of what I teach my students when studying wireless
> technology. You really think there is a market? More importantly, do
> you think anyone will bother to sit down and read it? At least with my
> students I can threaten tattle to their parents to get them to do the
> reading. ;-)
> 

If the book were written in the same style, and started at the same
level as your post, I'd bet lots of people would read it.

I know I would.

In terms of "is there a market" -- I'm sure there would be one, but the
question is "how large?"  The amateur radio community is relatively
small.  I bet the ARRL could tell you the number of copies their books
sell. Based on my own experience as an author in a narrow niche in the
computer software field, I'd guess your book would sell no less than 10K
copies over a couple of years.

The nice things about publishing today is that many printing houses can
"print on demand" small runs of a good quality soft-cover book very
reasonably.  Gone are the days when you needed to do a press-run of 10K
copies and then stockpile them.

Peter
K1PGV


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Re: [Flexradio] Book?

[Jim Jerzycke]

*I'd* buy it and read it.
I've already read a lot of what passes for "SDR Basics", but they tend to make 
my brain hurt with all the math.
Jim  KQ6EA

--- On Sat, 8/1/09, Brian Lloyd  wrote:

From: Brian Lloyd 
Subject: Re: [Flexradio] Book?
To: "Dave Gomberg" 
Cc: flexradio@flex-radio.biz
Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 1:19 PM

On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 9:56 AM, Dave Gomberg wrote:
> This post has me convinced there is a good market for a book, provisionally
> titled:
> SDR basics.
>
> Chapters might be:  Hardware radios, Software radios, PowerSDR,
> Hardware considerations, Helper software and addons.

Huh. This is part of what I teach my students when studying wireless
technology. You really think there is a market? More importantly, do
you think anyone will bother to sit down and read it? At least with my
students I can threaten tattle to their parents to get them to do the
reading. ;-)


-- 
73 de Brian, WB6RQN/J79BPL

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Re: [Flexradio] Book?

[Brian Lloyd]

On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 9:56 AM, Dave Gomberg wrote:
> This post has me convinced there is a good market for a book, provisionally
> titled:
> SDR basics.
>
> Chapters might be:  Hardware radios, Software radios, PowerSDR,
> Hardware considerations, Helper software and addons.

Huh. This is part of what I teach my students when studying wireless
technology. You really think there is a market? More importantly, do
you think anyone will bother to sit down and read it? At least with my
students I can threaten tattle to their parents to get them to do the
reading. ;-)


-- 
73 de Brian, WB6RQN/J79BPL

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[Flexradio] FLEX 3000 HELP

[w1fc]

FLEX 3000
I am helping a friend with a new FLEX3000 , I have one up and running fine. On 
his new one everything fine except can't get the TX audio to work, PTT does 
switch tx on ok. Same mic settings , same software, mic,? and computer being 
used for both radios. Simply swapping radios. Any ideas?
Fred
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[Flexradio] HID \ Game Joystick button interface to Flex

[Randy Emerzian]

Does any one have an idea for using the HID Game or joystick buttons to control 
FLEX-5000 Radio PTT Key control?  
 
I have a Plantronics (SHS-2355) USB Headset with a PTT Control.  The audio in 
and out work well through the VAC. I just need to figure out how to get the PTT 
Button to control the FLEX-5000 Key line.
 
Randy
KI6VAU


  
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Re: [Flexradio] Computer buy info needed

[Brian Lloyd]

On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 10:01 AM, John Hall wrote:
> I would very much like to go to an Apple IMac machine.   I for one am tired 
> of the Windows based
> machines.  It seems that as a group,
> Apple owners are very happy with the machines, and they seem to own them 
> longer
> before replacement.  I know that you can
> run Windows on an IMac, but there has been information passed around on the
> Flex site that one must do a “special”, technique to load “boot camp”, if you
> are going to run a Flex radio  ???  and that you must only use Windows XP 
> “SP2”,
> to load “Boot Camp”.  It was posted that
> Windows “SP3”, could not be a first load on the Apple “Boot Camp”,
> partition  ??  By the way, none of the IMac experts at our
> local Apple store have never heard of the above comment.  The reason why that 
> bit of posted “tech” info
> is important, is that finding actual full copies of Windows XP Pro “SP2”, is
> very hard.  Sealed copies of “SP3”, are
> much more easy to come by, and I’m not about to get into the open and once
> installed, then resold mess.

You can load WindowsXP SP3 on Boot Camp. The original instructions
required you to have at least SP2 to begin the installation but that
was more to let you know that you can't use an original WinXP
distribution. SP3 is fine.


> Neal, K3CN, has put together a very nice machine, for,
> a Flex radio, but is intended to be used just for the Flex.  Probably a good 
> idea, and best way to go, but
> ……….  That means, buying a computer just
> for the Flex radio.  There is where the
> problem lies.

Frankly, John, it *is* the right thing to do. I know, you already have
a computer in the house and why shouldn't it work for the radio too?
After all, computers cost money and you can't afford to waste money on
superfluous expenditures.

But think of it like this. What you are saying is somewhat akin to
saying, "gee, but I already have a TV antenna. Why should I have to go
out and get an expensive and specialized antenna for my new ham
radio?" I know, this is simplistic but I do think it is apropos. The
heart of your radio is the computer that is why it is called SOFTWARE
Defined Radio. Given the way Windows works you are only going to get
acceptable performance if you make sure that the computer hardware is
running the radio software and ONLY the radio software. No browsing,
no email, no anti-virus, no searching, no games, no nothing but
PowerSDR and its supporting programs, period, end-of-report.

But it is up to you to make that decision.

> For myself, if there is going to be on going computer
> / Flex issues, then maybe I should just move the Flex on.

Well, that is certainly your prerogative. But as you yourself said,
the Flex outperforms the other radios. As hams we are always buying
ancillary station "accessories", e.g. keys, mics, audio processing
kit, rotators, tuners, SWR bridges, wattmeters, dummy loads, etc.
Think of the dedicated computer as just another station accessory.

But if you are saying that there are ongoing problems, well, once you
get the right computer set up properly you just turn it on and
operate. My station at home just works. I turn on the power supply,
turn on the F5K, turn on the computer (Mac Mini), and get on the air.
No muss, no fuss. I no longer need to tweak the software. I run the
driver in normal mode (not even safe-mode-1). The radio works properly
for as long as it is turned on (modulo me loading test software with
bugs :-).

> It seems that a very large number of Flex users are
> middle age, and have a high degree of computer technical skills.  Then there 
> are those like myself, who can
> muddle about in the computer world, but don’t want it to take over our radio
> lives, with constant problems.

There really are no constant problems. Sure you have to tune the
computer to get it working reliably but once done you just leave it
alone. And in most cases someone can tell you want setttings to tweak.

If you would like a ready-to-run iMac, I will be happy to put it
together for you. I'll order it, install the software, configure it,
and ship it to you. All you need to do is to plug it in an use it. It
will boot into Windows to run the F5K or into MacOS to do everything
else. Since the processor is built into the display you don't have
anything else in the shack to take up space. It is how I would go if I
were doing it again.

> Any suggestions on resolving the question of a
> getting a computer that will serve as a all round machine for home and radio
> use, please toss out ideas.  I’d really
> like to resolve the Apple Imac / Boot camp / Windows version issues.  I have 
> a second monitor, and I’m told that
> the Apple IMac has a video output for a second monitor,

Yes, I use that occasionally. OTOH, I have mine set up so that
everything fits on a single screen. I just turned the display 90
degrees so it is higher than wide. I have fldigi stacked on top of
PowerSDR that way with no overlap. If you want to run HRD and hav

Re: [Flexradio] Computer buy info needed (iMAC)

[Neal Campbell]

I would also think you should contact Brian at brian-wb6...@lloyd.com
as he has a lot of experience with setting up macs and PowerSDR plus
can even help you get the right equipment if you wish.

73
Neal Campbell  K3NC
Abroham Neal Systems
Programming Services for Windows, OS X and Linux
www.abrohamnealsoftware.com
(540) 242 0911

LOW-COST COMPUTER FOR SDR at
http://www.abrohamnealsoftware.com/proddetail.php?prod=answc001




On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 2:39 PM, Steven O'Neal wrote:
>
> John
>
> There are a couple of folks on this mail reflector that are very successfully 
> running the iMAC with a Flex 5000.  I added to your title to attract their 
> attention to the question and perhaps one will comment on your base question 
> about using an iMAC with a Flex.
>
> Dudley is also very good at helping MAC users sort things out.
>
> If you decide to go PC again, there are many consumer PC boxes which would 
> work fine and available from the likes of COMPAQ, HP, Gateway and others 
> which would work well. You really don't need that much firepower on the PC 
> side to do a fine job with a Flex radio, and most of the consumer grade PC's 
> available at your local Best Buy would do fine. If you go that way, try to 
> find one with a built in Firewire, and do some research on he chipset driving 
> the Firewire, mostly TI in use, and that's what you want.
>
> Dell has even come out with their own iMAC looking PC box with an integrated 
> Screen computer if that is your thing.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Steve
>
> _
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Re: [Flexradio] Computer buy info needed (iMAC)

[Steven O'Neal]

John

There are a couple of folks on this mail reflector that are very successfully 
running the iMAC with a Flex 5000.  I added to your title to attract their 
attention to the question and perhaps one will comment on your base question 
about using an iMAC with a Flex.

Dudley is also very good at helping MAC users sort things out. 

If you decide to go PC again, there are many consumer PC boxes which would work 
fine and available from the likes of COMPAQ, HP, Gateway and others which would 
work well. You really don't need that much firepower on the PC side to do a 
fine job with a Flex radio, and most of the consumer grade PC's available at 
your local Best Buy would do fine. If you go that way, try to find one with a 
built in Firewire, and do some research on he chipset driving the Firewire, 
mostly TI in use, and that's what you want.  

Dell has even come out with their own iMAC looking PC box with an integrated 
Screen computer if that is your thing. 

Hope this helps.

Steve

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[Flexradio] Working DX like a knife going through butter

[Mark Lunday]

14037 kHz CW, 7P8OK, medium-sized pileup, mostly US but some EU, working QSX
+1.

 

F3K, 100 watts to a 2 element hex wire beam at 32 feet, not a big gun.  I
need 7P on 20.

 

I tune VFOA to 14037, narrow the filter to keep out QRM from nearby EU
stations in the contest.  I tune VFO B to 14038.1 and set it as TX.  

 

I listen for a minute to get the rhythm (the DX op is very skilled, running
an efficient pileup).

 

I position my TX just below a VE3 who worked him, and send my call.  7P8
comes back with "WD  WD?"

 

I send call again, he comes back and we exchange signal reports. BAM!  New
one on 20.

 

This is sweet.  Easy.  Fun.  And I can be very precise in where I put my TX
signal (which, as the DXers taught me, is the key).

 

 

Mark Lunday

WD4ELG

Hillsborough, NC - FM06kb

  wd4...@arrl.net

  http://wd4elg.net

 

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Re: [Flexradio] Book?

[manualman]

If someone writes it, I can offer to print it all in full color.

Pete, wa2cwa
ManualMan

On Sat, 01 Aug 2009 09:56:48 -0700 Dave Gomberg  writes:
> This post has me convinced there is a good market for a book, 
> provisionally titled:
> SDR basics.
> 
> Chapters might be:  Hardware radios, Software radios, PowerSDR,
> Hardware considerations, Helper software and addons.
> 
> Not really a nuts-and-bolts kind of book, the list is good for 
> that.   More a conceptual
> description so that the meaning of the elements is well understood, 
> 
> and there is a
> link between buzz-words and acronyms on the one hand and concepts 
> and 
> block diagram
> functions on the other.
> 
> I would think given the target market, e-publishing would be 
> best.   Comments

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[Flexradio] Computer buy info needed

[John Hall]

SDR decision time.

 

Well I’m at the fork I the road.   I picked up a very nice, late ser number,  
5000A a few months back, with the tuner and
second receiver.   The price was very
fair.  I also knew at the time that my
main computer in the house, located in the shack of coarse, would need replacing
regardless of whether I got a Flex or not. 
I have grown to love the 5000A. 
When I got the Flex it joined a K3, and Icom 7700 , and a Drake C –
Line, on the desk.  Now the K3 is
gone.  I just heard some things going on
in the K3, audio wise that I never could accept.  The Icom 7700 is just a joy 
to use.  I do feel that the Flex has them all beat in performance.

 

Now for the hard part, and don’t you all laugh.  I have been running, yes 
running, the 5000A
on an old machine with a CPU speed of about 1.3 ghz, and 4 gig of memory.  So 
far I have run SSB, and CW, and( copied ) Digital.  Does it stop working, yes, 
once and a
while  ( some days are better than others
).  I have done this to get the feel of
the radio, knowing that I have not come near the full specs of the machine, but
it still does a better job, especially in with the signals mixed in with summer
static, that any other radio in the shack.

 

The recent discussions on the reflector, regarding
computer issues, IRQ’s, etc are discouraging.  
Neal, K3NC’s, comment about many of the packaged computer deals buy
companies like Dell not being able to handle the SDR program, and radio needs,
is a bit discerning.

 

I would very much like to go to an Apple IMac machine.   I for one am tired of 
the Windows based
machines.  It seems that as a group,
Apple owners are very happy with the machines, and they seem to own them longer
before replacement.  I know that you can
run Windows on an IMac, but there has been information passed around on the
Flex site that one must do a “special”, technique to load “boot camp”, if you
are going to run a Flex radio  ???  and that you must only use Windows XP “SP2”,
to load “Boot Camp”.  It was posted that
Windows “SP3”, could not be a first load on the Apple “Boot Camp”,
partition  ??  By the way, none of the IMac experts at our
local Apple store have never heard of the above comment.  The reason why that 
bit of posted “tech” info
is important, is that finding actual full copies of Windows XP Pro “SP2”, is
very hard.  Sealed copies of “SP3”, are
much more easy to come by, and I’m not about to get into the open and once
installed, then resold mess.

 

Neal, K3CN, has put together a very nice machine, for,
a Flex radio, but is intended to be used just for the Flex.  Probably a good 
idea, and best way to go, but
……….  That means, buying a computer just
for the Flex radio.  There is where the
problem lies.

 

For myself, if there is going to be on going computer
/ Flex issues, then maybe I should just move the Flex on.

 

It seems that a very large number of Flex users are
middle age, and have a high degree of computer technical skills.  Then there 
are those like myself, who can
muddle about in the computer world, but don’t want it to take over our radio
lives, with constant problems.

 

Any suggestions on resolving the question of a
getting a computer that will serve as a all round machine for home and radio
use, please toss out ideas.  I’d really
like to resolve the Apple Imac / Boot camp / Windows version issues.  I have a 
second monitor, and I’m told that
the Apple IMac has a video output for a second monitor, and yes I know I will
have to buy an adapter to drop the Apple fire wire speed down from 800 to 400.

 

I do have to say “thank you”, many times over to
Dudley for all his help during the first few weeks that I owned the 5000A.  
From my point of view, Flex Radio’s tech
service is now better than Elecraft’s.

 

Even if I should not, keep, the 5000A because it’s
just to much of a computer hassle, or really need to spring for a stand alone
computer system to run the Flex, I would still be a supporter of the Flex
family of radios.  I feel that positive
about the company and it’s products.  I’ve
even gotten a long time friend to buy a 5000A, and he now loves it ( he did buy
a high end Dell to run his ).

 

Got to say. 
1.3 ghz running at 65 % CPU usage on receive, and 85 +% on xmit, has not
been as bad as it sounds, the poor thing does run the 5000A.  It just gets 
hairy when you toss in MixW for
coping PSK, and you see the CPU usage hit 99 – 100 %.  At that point the 
panadapter just stops
moving, wonder why  ?? only kidding to
all those out there.  By the way the only
thing that does happen, is that the program stops responding.  I have never had 
the computer “crash”.  All I do is just click on stop, then start
again.

 

Thanks for any positive comments.




  
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[Flexradio] Book?

[Dave Gomberg]

This post has me convinced there is a good market for a book, 
provisionally titled:

SDR basics.

Chapters might be:  Hardware radios, Software radios, PowerSDR,
Hardware considerations, Helper software and addons.

Not really a nuts-and-bolts kind of book, the list is good for 
that.   More a conceptual
description so that the meaning of the elements is well understood, 
and there is a
link between buzz-words and acronyms on the one hand and concepts and 
block diagram

functions on the other.

I would think given the target market, e-publishing would be 
best.   Comments



At 03:02 AM 8/1/2009, Eddy Van de Velde wrote:
Using HRD v5.0 with com0com and VAC on SDR-1000 here. So, the delay 
on PTT is not an issue for the SDR-1000 only. The problem is not in 
the FlexRadio hard- or software.
Simply use two Virtual Com ports for HRD-DM780. One Vcom port for 
CAT control between PowerSDR and the second Vcom port for PTT 
control configuration in DM780. No delay at all on PTT if configured this way.

Eddy ON5UQ.
- Original Message - From: "Steven O'Neal" 
To: "Flex" 
Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2009 12:43 AM
Subject: [Flexradio] Anyone using HRD V 5.0
I took the plunge and updated my version 4.0 HRD to version 5.0 and 
wanted to see if anyone else running a Flex has done so and what 
sort of problems they are having.

Problems I have encountered so far:
Long delay going into and out of Transmit   HRD Bug was already 
open, so I added a bit more for the Flex 3000 in use here.
I had a Blue Screen of Death before using an earlier version, 
current one is 2277.
Have not entirely figured out the setup for waterfall settings, 
tricks and tips appreciated.
Olivia operation seems to be somewhat improved, worked a ZL on 20 
the other night with a s/n of around -2 who was running Fldigi, 
which has been slightly problematic in the past.

So anyone else running Version 5 of HRD?



--
Dave Gomberg, San Francisco   NE5EE gomberg1 at wcf dot com
All addresses, phones, etc. at http://www.wcf.com/ham/info.html
- 



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Re: [Flexradio] Anyone using HRD V 5.0

[Steven O'Neal]

Jose,

My biggest "nag" was the slowness going into and out of Transmit, the fix that 
Eddie pointed out seems to have fixed that.

The other slowness, well not so bothersome and Version 5 s a Beta program now, 
so no worries. 

One other thing, have you noticed the flashing refresh of the screen including 
Icons on your desktop happen at times?

I run a dual monitor setup and notice sometimes that I get this global screen 
redraw with sort of a flashing appearance of icons on my desktop and on both 
monitors. My video card is a Nvidia 250 with an AMD 6000+, so I somehow doubt 
it's the computer hardware, suspect some sort of very strange HRD effect.  I 
have spent no time trying to associate this happening with anything going on, 
but it is very close to what was happening with an earlier version of HRD V5 
and was what occurred right before a Blue Screen of Death (earlier Beta).  The 
good news is that I do not see a problem with PowerSDR going bonkers, but I 
don't have DPC running to see what is going on with the delays when this 
flashing stuff is going on.

Thanks for your comments on HRD V 5.0 though. 

Steve

> Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 18:12:26 +0200
> From: f...@sfr.fr
> To: se_on...@hotmail.com
> CC: van.de.velde.e...@telenet.be; flexradio@flex-radio.biz
> Subject: Re: [Flexradio] Anyone using HRD V 5.0
> 
> Steven,
> This is my setup with N8VB vCom :
> 
> PowerSDR setup/CAT Control :
> Enable CAT checked - Port : COM8
> PTT Control checked
> Port COM9 with RTS and DTR checked.
> 
> DM780/Program Options/PTT tab
> PTT Via Serial (COM) port checked
> COM Port 19 selected with RTS and DTR checked
> 
> Some actions initiated from HRD/Logbook are very slow. Make this test : 
> in PowerSDR Setup/General/Options, check Always on Top. That will permit 
> to see what happen on PowerSDR when you click on one of the buttons of 
> the radio pane of the logbook. Try the Bin button by example. It takes 4 
> seconds before being activated on the Flex.
> 
> Uncheck Always on Top, if you don't want. to keep it that way.
> 
> Some days ago, I spoke with Bob, K5KDN, designer of the CAT commands 
> about this problem. He did not see anything wrong.
> 
> 73
> José F5JD
> 
> Steven O'Neal a écrit :
> > Eddie
> >
> > Help me out here. 
> >
> > I might be on the wrong path here, but I thought if you set CAT control in 
> > the CAT control TAB of Power SDR, the PTT field did nothing, maybe got that 
> > wrong.
> >
> > So how do I set HRD to use CAT to control the radio, which I don't use 
> > much, and to use PTT in addition to the CAT TX command, in HRD that is.  
> > CAT is now on Com 6 which is COM 16 using VCOM, so COM 7 would be COM17. 
> > How do I configure HRD to use the separate PTT command interface? 
> >
> > I do notice some strangeness in HRD V5.0 when it comes to overall speed of 
> > response. There is a fair amount of lag which might be associated with 
> > polling the Flex over the CAT interface (?). 
> >
> > Thannks
> >
> >   
> >> From: van.de.velde.e...@telenet.be
> >> To: flexradio@flex-radio.biz; se_on...@hotmail.com
> >> Subject: Re: [Flexradio] Anyone using HRD V 5.0
> >> Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 12:02:11 +0200
> >>
> >> Using HRD v5.0 with com0com and VAC on SDR-1000 here. So, the delay on PTT 
> >> is not an issue for the SDR-1000 only. The problem is not in the FlexRadio 
> >> hard- or software.
> >>
> >> Simply use two Virtual Com ports for HRD-DM780. One Vcom port for CAT 
> >> control between PowerSDR and the second Vcom port for PTT control 
> >> configuration in DM780. No delay at all on PTT if configured this way.
> >>
> >> Eddy ON5UQ.
> >>
> >>
> >> - Original Message - 
> >> From: "Steven O'Neal" 
> >> To: "Flex" 
> >> Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2009 12:43 AM
> >> Subject: [Flexradio] Anyone using HRD V 5.0
> >>
> >>
> >> 
> >>> I took the plunge and updated my version 4.0 HRD to version 5.0 and 
> >>> wanted 
> >>> to see if anyone else running a Flex has done so and what sort of 
> >>> problems 
> >>> they are having.
> >>>
> >>> Problems I have encountered so far:
> >>>
> >>> Long delay going into and out of Transmit   HRD Bug was already open, so 
> >>> I 
> >>> added a bit more for the Flex 3000 in use here.
> >>>
> >>> I had a Blue Screen of Death before using an earlier version, current one 
> >>> is 2277.
> >>>
> >>> Have not entirely figured out the setup for waterfall settings, tricks 
> >>> and 
> >>> tips appreciated.
> >>>
> >>> Olivia operation seems to be somewhat improved, worked a ZL on 20 the 
> >>> other night with a s/n of around -2 who was running Fldigi, which has 
> >>> been 
> >>> slightly problematic in the past.
> >>>
> >>> So anyone else running Version 5 of HRD?
> >>>   
> >
> > _
> > Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for Hotmail®. 
> > http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=PID23391::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HYGN_express:082009
> 

Re: [Flexradio] Anyone using HRD V 5.0

[Giuseppe Campana]

Hi,

testing our Tmate with PowerSDR, absolutely non lags or delay with 
Flex CAT, there are not errors in K5KDN's code.


HRD seems very complex with serial managing, some delay also here 
with PowerSDR.


73 Beppe
IK3VIG



At 18.12 01/08/2009, you wrote:

flexradio@flex-radio.biz



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Re: [Flexradio] Anyone using HRD V 5.0

[José Dumoulin]

Steven,
This is my setup with N8VB vCom :

PowerSDR setup/CAT Control :
Enable CAT checked - Port : COM8
PTT Control checked
Port COM9 with RTS and DTR checked.

DM780/Program Options/PTT tab
PTT Via Serial (COM) port checked
COM Port 19 selected with RTS and DTR checked

Some actions initiated from HRD/Logbook are very slow. Make this test : 
in PowerSDR Setup/General/Options, check Always on Top. That will permit 
to see what happen on PowerSDR when you click on one of the buttons of 
the radio pane of the logbook. Try the Bin button by example. It takes 4 
seconds before being activated on the Flex.


Uncheck Always on Top, if you don't want. to keep it that way.

Some days ago, I spoke with Bob, K5KDN, designer of the CAT commands 
about this problem. He did not see anything wrong.


73
José F5JD

Steven O'Neal a écrit :

Eddie

Help me out here. 


I might be on the wrong path here, but I thought if you set CAT control in the 
CAT control TAB of Power SDR, the PTT field did nothing, maybe got that wrong.

So how do I set HRD to use CAT to control the radio, which I don't use much, and to use PTT in addition to the CAT TX command, in HRD that is.  CAT is now on Com 6 which is COM 16 using VCOM, so COM 7 would be COM17. How do I configure HRD to use the separate PTT command interface? 

I do notice some strangeness in HRD V5.0 when it comes to overall speed of response. There is a fair amount of lag which might be associated with polling the Flex over the CAT interface (?). 


Thannks

  

From: van.de.velde.e...@telenet.be
To: flexradio@flex-radio.biz; se_on...@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: [Flexradio] Anyone using HRD V 5.0
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 12:02:11 +0200

Using HRD v5.0 with com0com and VAC on SDR-1000 here. So, the delay on PTT 
is not an issue for the SDR-1000 only. The problem is not in the FlexRadio 
hard- or software.


Simply use two Virtual Com ports for HRD-DM780. One Vcom port for CAT 
control between PowerSDR and the second Vcom port for PTT control 
configuration in DM780. No delay at all on PTT if configured this way.


Eddy ON5UQ.


- Original Message - 
From: "Steven O'Neal" 

To: "Flex" 
Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2009 12:43 AM
Subject: [Flexradio] Anyone using HRD V 5.0



I took the plunge and updated my version 4.0 HRD to version 5.0 and wanted 
to see if anyone else running a Flex has done so and what sort of problems 
they are having.


Problems I have encountered so far:

Long delay going into and out of Transmit   HRD Bug was already open, so I 
added a bit more for the Flex 3000 in use here.


I had a Blue Screen of Death before using an earlier version, current one 
is 2277.


Have not entirely figured out the setup for waterfall settings, tricks and 
tips appreciated.


Olivia operation seems to be somewhat improved, worked a ZL on 20 the 
other night with a s/n of around -2 who was running Fldigi, which has been 
slightly problematic in the past.


So anyone else running Version 5 of HRD?
  


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Re: [Flexradio] Anyone using HRD V 5.0

[Steven O'Neal]

Eddie,

Found what I was looking for after sending previous.

In HRD

>>>Program Options>> PTT >>>Select via Serial (COM) port
For me: COM 17
 SET DTR SET RTS

In Power SDR

CAT Control Form of Setup

ENABLE PTT

PORT COM 7
ENABLE RTS DTS

Works wonderfully Thanks for the pointer to how to fix the HRD "feature"

Software developers do not have "Bugs" in their programs, they have 
"features".LOL!


> From: van.de.velde.e...@telenet.be
> To: flexradio@flex-radio.biz; se_on...@hotmail.com
> Subject: Re: [Flexradio] Anyone using HRD V 5.0
> Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 12:02:11 +0200
> 
> Using HRD v5.0 with com0com and VAC on SDR-1000 here. So, the delay on PTT 
> is not an issue for the SDR-1000 only. The problem is not in the FlexRadio 
> hard- or software.
> 
> Simply use two Virtual Com ports for HRD-DM780. One Vcom port for CAT 
> control between PowerSDR and the second Vcom port for PTT control 
> configuration in DM780. No delay at all on PTT if configured this way.
> 
> Eddy ON5UQ.
> 
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Steven O'Neal" 
> To: "Flex" 
> Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2009 12:43 AM
> Subject: [Flexradio] Anyone using HRD V 5.0
> 
> 
> >
> > I took the plunge and updated my version 4.0 HRD to version 5.0 and wanted 
> > to see if anyone else running a Flex has done so and what sort of problems 
> > they are having.
> >
> > Problems I have encountered so far:
> >
> > Long delay going into and out of Transmit   HRD Bug was already open, so I 
> > added a bit more for the Flex 3000 in use here.
> >
> > I had a Blue Screen of Death before using an earlier version, current one 
> > is 2277.
> >
> > Have not entirely figured out the setup for waterfall settings, tricks and 
> > tips appreciated.
> >
> > Olivia operation seems to be somewhat improved, worked a ZL on 20 the 
> > other night with a s/n of around -2 who was running Fldigi, which has been 
> > slightly problematic in the past.
> >
> > So anyone else running Version 5 of HRD?
> 

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Re: [Flexradio] Anyone using HRD V 5.0

[Steven O'Neal]

Eddie

Help me out here. 

I might be on the wrong path here, but I thought if you set CAT control in the 
CAT control TAB of Power SDR, the PTT field did nothing, maybe got that wrong.

So how do I set HRD to use CAT to control the radio, which I don't use much, 
and to use PTT in addition to the CAT TX command, in HRD that is.  CAT is now 
on Com 6 which is COM 16 using VCOM, so COM 7 would be COM17. How do I 
configure HRD to use the separate PTT command interface? 

I do notice some strangeness in HRD V5.0 when it comes to overall speed of 
response. There is a fair amount of lag which might be associated with polling 
the Flex over the CAT interface (?). 

Thannks

> From: van.de.velde.e...@telenet.be
> To: flexradio@flex-radio.biz; se_on...@hotmail.com
> Subject: Re: [Flexradio] Anyone using HRD V 5.0
> Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 12:02:11 +0200
> 
> Using HRD v5.0 with com0com and VAC on SDR-1000 here. So, the delay on PTT 
> is not an issue for the SDR-1000 only. The problem is not in the FlexRadio 
> hard- or software.
> 
> Simply use two Virtual Com ports for HRD-DM780. One Vcom port for CAT 
> control between PowerSDR and the second Vcom port for PTT control 
> configuration in DM780. No delay at all on PTT if configured this way.
> 
> Eddy ON5UQ.
> 
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Steven O'Neal" 
> To: "Flex" 
> Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2009 12:43 AM
> Subject: [Flexradio] Anyone using HRD V 5.0
> 
> 
> >
> > I took the plunge and updated my version 4.0 HRD to version 5.0 and wanted 
> > to see if anyone else running a Flex has done so and what sort of problems 
> > they are having.
> >
> > Problems I have encountered so far:
> >
> > Long delay going into and out of Transmit   HRD Bug was already open, so I 
> > added a bit more for the Flex 3000 in use here.
> >
> > I had a Blue Screen of Death before using an earlier version, current one 
> > is 2277.
> >
> > Have not entirely figured out the setup for waterfall settings, tricks and 
> > tips appreciated.
> >
> > Olivia operation seems to be somewhat improved, worked a ZL on 20 the 
> > other night with a s/n of around -2 who was running Fldigi, which has been 
> > slightly problematic in the past.
> >
> > So anyone else running Version 5 of HRD?
> 

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Re: [Flexradio] Roofing filters, preselectors, oh my!

[Peter G. Viscarola]

> Much of the hardware in the flex operates under the I2C
> protocol.  

Critical stuff under the control of an I2C bus?  That surprises me.
I've always found the I2C bus (well, actually, almost always it's an
SMBBus) inside computers to VERY noisy and prone to mangled packets.
I've often seen multiple retries on the bus to get a single packet
through.  That's why inside a computer enclosure I22/SMBus is typically
limited to non-critical stuff like temperature, fan, and battery
sensors/controls.

Do you know how they handle this?  What speed do they run the I2C bus
at?  Are the internal cables they run twisted and shielded?  Or is the
I2C bus significantly less noise prone than the SMBus (they are
essentially the same bus, modulo a few details such as slightly
different logic levels -- the same 2-wire devices will work on either).

Curious...

Peter
K1PGV


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[Flexradio] Roofing filters, preselectors, oh my!

[Lee A Crocker]

I believe the preselector in the flex is already I2C (aka flexwire) aware.  
Much of the hardware in the flex operates under the I2C protocol.  That is one 
of the amazing things, the computer tells the driver transistors and the finals 
what their bias is for example, and that can be adjusted from a screen in the 
computer, so if you want to go from class AB to class A its just a matter of 
entering that class A bias settings into the computer

Just keep repezating to yourself "the computer is the radio, the computer is 
the radio, the computer IS the radio"  :)

73  W9OY



  
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Re: [Flexradio] Anyone using HRD V 5.0

[Eddy Van de Velde]

Using HRD v5.0 with com0com and VAC on SDR-1000 here. So, the delay on PTT 
is not an issue for the SDR-1000 only. The problem is not in the FlexRadio 
hard- or software.


Simply use two Virtual Com ports for HRD-DM780. One Vcom port for CAT 
control between PowerSDR and the second Vcom port for PTT control 
configuration in DM780. No delay at all on PTT if configured this way.


Eddy ON5UQ.


- Original Message - 
From: "Steven O'Neal" 

To: "Flex" 
Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2009 12:43 AM
Subject: [Flexradio] Anyone using HRD V 5.0




I took the plunge and updated my version 4.0 HRD to version 5.0 and wanted 
to see if anyone else running a Flex has done so and what sort of problems 
they are having.


Problems I have encountered so far:

Long delay going into and out of Transmit   HRD Bug was already open, so I 
added a bit more for the Flex 3000 in use here.


I had a Blue Screen of Death before using an earlier version, current one 
is 2277.


Have not entirely figured out the setup for waterfall settings, tricks and 
tips appreciated.


Olivia operation seems to be somewhat improved, worked a ZL on 20 the 
other night with a s/n of around -2 who was running Fldigi, which has been 
slightly problematic in the past.


So anyone else running Version 5 of HRD?



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Re: [Flexradio] Roofing filter

[petervn]

Good story Brian, 
better than my comments were.
Interestng, I dit not think of a roofing filter looking at the anti-aliasing..
Thanks
73s peter pa0pvn
 
groeten Peter  websitehttp://www.homepages.hetnet.nl/~petervn/ 

 
petervn-at-hetnet-nl  pa0pvn-at-hetnet-nl  pa0pvn-at-amsat-org
only large files:pa0pvn-at-gmail-com
There are 10 kind of people, those who can count to 1010 on their fingers,
and those who count to 11.
 



Van: flexradio-boun...@flex-radio.biz namens Brian Lloyd
Verzonden: vr 31-7-2009 23:46
Aan: Flexradio
Onderwerp: Re: [Flexradio] Roofing filter



Oh, I can see lots of confusion forming here. Actually the issue of
"roofing filters" is reasonably easy to understand. In fact, the Flex
radios actually have roofing filters! (SURPRISE!) Now before everyone
leaps on their keyboard to tell me how wrong I am I am going to add
here that:

1. they are called something else;

2. they are put there for a different purpose.

Let's go back to basics for just a moment and understand where and why
a roofing filter is needed and why a roofing filter might actually be
detrimental under some conditions.

The purpose of a receiver is to receive a signal. (Basic enough?)
Signals vary in strength. Your receiver can receive signals normally
over a wide range of input power. At one end is the noise floor.
Generally speaking you can't receive a signal whose power is less than
the noise power in the same bandwidth. (No, let's not jump into a
discussion of integration time and energy in coherent vs. non-coherent
signals -- save that for another time.) At the other end is the point
where the receiver starts to become non-linear, i.e. where the signal
coming out is no longer an analog of the signal coming in. This is the
compression point. At this point the receiver starts to generate a
bunch of unwanted signals from the desired signals (intermodulation
distortion or IMD). The range between these two points is the dynamic
range of the receiver. (Yes, this is a simplistic description but
please bear with me. We can get into the nuances some other time.)

Now here is an important point: each stage in the receiver has its own
dynamic range and its own contribution to nonlinearity and IMD. The
dynamic range of the receiver is the combination of all the dynamic
ranges of all the stages. We can improve things by making the receiver
have fewer stages and/or making sure that the signal doesn't pass
through a stage to contribute to the problem. (Keep this in mind, it
will become an important point later on.)

If there was only one signal to receive, we would be done but in HF
and especially in ham radio, there are a lot of other signals besides
the one we want to receive. Those signals are entering the receiver
along with the desired signal. The combination of the desired and all
the undesired signals passing through the receiver contribute to the
RF power being amplified by the stages of the receiver. The trick is
to remove as much of the undesired signals before they have a chance
to saturate a stage causing compression and/or additional IMD.

The first place we can do this is at the antenna. Resonant antennas do
a good job of receiving RF power at desired frequencies. Signals at
frequencies outside the operating frequency are attenuated so their
effect on the total RF power reaching the receiver is reduced.

The next place we can attenuate the undesired frequencies is the
preselector preceding the RF-amp and/or first mixer. The goal is to
eliminate, as much as possible, the undesired signals before they
reach the next active (amplifying) stage. The only problem is, if the
undesired signal is very close to the desired signal in frequency,
neither the antenna nor the preselector will be able to fliter it out.
The undesired signal will then have to pass through the following
stages of the receiver. We have no choice.

As someone else pointed out, the next place to get rid of undesired
signals is in a filter immediately following the first mixer. If we
have a single-conversion receiver, we call this the IF filter. It is
the only narrow bandpass filter we have. It gets rid of everything
except a narrow band of frequencies, those that we want to receive. If
we have a multiple-conversion receiver (one with multiple IF
frequencies) then this filter has come to be known as a "Roofing
Filter". They call it that because the intention is not to use this
filter to provide the final selectivity of the receiver but rather
just to get rid of unwanted signals near the desired signal, that is,
it shields or "roofs" the subsequent stages from most or all of the
unwanted RF power. The final selectivity will be provided in a
subsequent IF stage, usually at a lower frequency where selectivity is
easier to come by.

If you have a "traditional" receiver, i.e. one made within the last