Re: [Flexradio] More Strange Frequency Drift Problem - Solved!
Folks: I have finally been able to completely eliminate the short term frequency drift of 20 -30 Hz. when returning to RX after transmitting for just a few seconds. In the last few weeks I have operated several digital contests, and am happy to report that there is no measurable drift as before. I have installed a very simple 3 terminal 8 volt regulator. The mod is cheap, involves to holes or other modification the radio in any way. The radio can be easily placed back into the original configuration. This drift condition is only apparent on SDR-1000 radios that *have the PTC modification installed*! I have no idea how many of these modified units are out there, perhaps our friends at Flex-Radio can supply a list of effected serial numbers. This condition is noticeable only on the Digital modes, or any mode that requires frequency stability less than 20 -30 HZ. short term when going from transmit back to receive. I am told that some folks can hear that amount of frequency shift in the CW and SSB modes. The real cause is the inevitable voltage drop that is seen by the DC input to the radio. Even a PS that regulates down to less than 1/10 th. volt will produce a noticeable drift on the waterfall display. There s also a small voltage drop in the cable that runs from the power supply to the radio. Yes, I am using the cable that was shipped with the radio. I picked 8 volts as the regulated voltage , as the 3 terminal regulators require a voltage "headroom" of about 3 volts in order to maintain regulation. This circuit should be good down to about 11 volts or so. If you contemplate battery operation, you may wish to opt for a low-headroom type of voltage regulator, or a lower regulated voltage output. I used a 1 amp type on a heat sink, which also furnishes a way to mount the circuit to n existing screw in the SDR-1000 enclosure. Many folks have helped in identifying this issue, and I certainly wish to thank them all for their time and effort. I have attempted to copy them all on this message. If I left out anyone, I really apologize. As a bonus, by wiring the input of the new voltage regulator to the unswitched DC input of the 100 watt PA, as long as the power supply is turned on, the oscillator is temperature stabilized. There is no warm up drift as before, short as it was. I would be glad to write up a step by step procedure for this modification/addition if anyone is interested. Thanks again for everyone's time. Brian K7RE ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ FlexRadio Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] More Strange Frequency Drift Problem
I hooked up MixW <--> VAC <--> vCOM <--> FA-66 and everything in PSK31, Olivia, and MFSK16 work without any shift in frequency. I will continue to test. de ken Brian Kassel wrote: > Hello Peter: > > I have never heard or worked with this device, so your explanation > really helped me understand the circuit. Yes, I see now that it is quite > unlikely that the PTC is the culprit. Since apparently there is no > switching, change in loading, or other circuit change from TX to RX, I > can only conclude that it is a voltage regulator problem. I can't seem > to find any other explanation for the 10 second approximately 22 HZ > drift at the test frequency of 14.070 I will disassemble the board stack > in order to access the oscillator, run some temporary probes to the > oscillator, then reassemble the stack for testing. Hopefully my > measurements will lead to a solution. > > Brian K7RE -- Flex-Radio Customer Support (1-512-250-8595) --- The answer to your question can be found in the wonderful new Knowledge Base Please use it frequently http://kb.flex-radio.com/ ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ FlexRadio Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] More Strange Frequency Drift Problem
Hello Peter: I have never heard or worked with this device, so your explanation really helped me understand the circuit. Yes, I see now that it is quite unlikely that the PTC is the culprit. Since apparently there is no switching, change in loading, or other circuit change from TX to RX, I can only conclude that it is a voltage regulator problem. I can't seem to find any other explanation for the 10 second approximately 22 HZ drift at the test frequency of 14.070 I will disassemble the board stack in order to access the oscillator, run some temporary probes to the oscillator, then reassemble the stack for testing. Hopefully my measurements will lead to a solution. Brian K7RE [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Thanks Willi, > > That’s is new to me. I have not disassembled the print stack jet. > > I expected some NTC an opamp and so on. > > The heater must be a PTC, these devices possesses a sharp rice > > of the resistance at a defined temperature, this way making a stable > > temperature. In the past I have used PTC’s for that purpose. > > The lowest specific temperature available at that time was about 70 > degrees C. > > I wonder what that temp of this device is. > > PTC’s are widely used in the demagnetisation circuits in colour > televisions, in > > series with de demagnetisation coil on the picture tube. As the > resistance > > rises, the current can go down to almost nothing, provided that the > PTC is > > thermally isolated. > > In the SDR1000 some current will flow due to the heat loss trough the > oscillator. > > I do not think that the PTC is the culprit, the final temperature is > only slightly > > dependent on the voltage, and will not give a fast nor step like > change (in the > > frequency) as the heat transfer is also slowly. > > Still wondering what happens. > > 73 peter pa0pvn > > groeten Peter > petervn(a)hetnet.nl <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ; pa0pvn(a)hetnet.nl > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ; > pa0pvn(a)gmail.com ; pa0pvn(a)amsat.org . > > ---- > Van: Willi Reppel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Verzonden: zo 7-1-2007 11:48 > Aan: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Brian Kassel; flexradio@flex-radio.biz > Onderwerp: Re: [Flexradio] More Strange Frequency Drift Problem > > Peter, > > You wrote: > > >I am not sure where the power for the heater on the 200MHz oscillator > come > >from > > > > I bought a new 1 W SDR1000 last month before the announcement about > the 100 > W-only version came. > I disassembled the unit to have a look at the termistor. It is a small > disk > of approx 8 mm diameter and 2 mm thickness which is soldered or glued > with a > conductive compound on to the case of oscillator QG1. A wire is > soldered to > the top of the disk which is connected directly to the terminal strip > and + > 13.8 V dc. The grounded case of the crystal oscillator serves as return > pass and minus. It seems to be a combined heater / termistor with > approx 50 > ohm att room temp. and 150 ohm at operation temp. > Hope this sheds some light upon how the preheater / termistor is fed. > > groeten van > > SM6OMH Willi > > snip > ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ FlexRadio Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] More Strange Frequency Drift Problem
At 02:48 AM 1/7/2007, Willi Reppel wrote: >Peter, > >You wrote: > > >I am not sure where the power for the heater on the 200MHz oscillator come > >from > > > >I bought a new 1 W SDR1000 last month before the announcement about the 100 >W-only version came. >I disassembled the unit to have a look at the termistor. It is a small disk >of approx 8 mm diameter and 2 mm thickness which is soldered or glued with a >conductive compound on to the case of oscillator QG1. A wire is soldered to >the top of the disk which is connected directly to the terminal strip and + >13.8 V dc. The grounded case of the crystal oscillator serves as return >pass and minus. It seems to be a combined heater / termistor with approx 50 >ohm att room temp. and 150 ohm at operation temp. >Hope this sheds some light upon how the preheater / termistor is fed. Hmm, running the thermal control heater off an unregulated bus seems like a dicey design. Better have a real stiff power supply and very short leads or good sense lines going back to the PS regulator. Certainly not going to be good for running off a battery. K7RE, you're running off a regulated power supply as I recall, but how long and resistive are the wires from supply to radio? Can you measure the voltage, at the thermistor, as you switch between Tx and Rx. Even running at lower RF power, there may be enough of a shift in voltage to account for your problem. Maybe Flex might want to figure out an ECO that runs the thermistor off a regulated supply (5V has a fair amount of current because it has to run the DDS which is right next to the oscillator, but I don't know how close to the max current the 5V reg is running at). >groeten van > >SM6OMH Willi > >- Original Message - >From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: "Brian Kassel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; >Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 11:09 PM >Subject: Re: [Flexradio] More Strange Frequency Drift Problem > > > >I am not sure where the power for the heater on the 200MHz oscilator come > >from > > > > power to the 200MHz oscilator: > > PIOboard [AVDD] IC9(TPS76833) pin5+6 to interconnect pin 10 > > TRXboard power to 200MHz oscilator pin14 [AVDD] J7pin10 (interconnect) > > interconnect J7 is a 12 pin connector > > > > I hope it helps you > > 73 peter pa0pvn > > > > groeten Peter > > petervn(a)hetnet.nl <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ; pa0pvn(a)hetnet.nl > > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ; > > pa0pvn(a)gmail.com ; pa0pvn(a)amsat.org . > > > > > > > > > > Van: [EMAIL PROTECTED] namens Brian Kassel > > Verzonden: za 6-1-2007 22:16 > > Aan: flexradio@flex-radio.biz > > Onderwerp: Re: [Flexradio] More Strange Frequency Drift Problem > > > > > > > > Folks: > > > > Can someone tell me where the regulated voltage for the 200 MHz. > > oscillator comes from? It isn't clear to me in the schematic. I am > > investigating a 22 HZ oscillator frequency change from TX to RX that > > occurs in the first 10 seconds, then stabilizes to less than 1 Hz > > change. . Temperature doesn't seem to be the culprit, and as far as I > > can see, there is no switching or changing of loading on the > > oscillator between TX and RX. > > Still fighting the uphill battle to determine my frequency shift problem. > > > > Brian K7RE > > > > > > > > ___ > > FlexRadio mailing list > > FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz > > http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz > > Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ > > FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ > > > > FlexRadio Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ > > > > > > -- next part -- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: > > > http://mail.flex-radio.biz/pipermail/flexradio_flex-radio.biz/attachments/20070106/87177bc4/attachment.html > > ___ > > FlexRadio mailing list > > FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz > > http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz > > Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ > > FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ > > > > FlexRadio Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ > > > > > >___ >FlexRadio mailing list >FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz >http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz >Archive Link:
Re: [Flexradio] More Strange Frequency Drift Problem
Hi Willi: Thanks for that very nice detailed description. I am not quite sure if the thermistor is the problem, but your description should help me to track down the culprit that causes the short term drifting between TX and RX Thanks Again Brian K7RE Willi Reppel wrote: > Peter, > > You wrote: > >> I am not sure where the power for the heater on the 200MHz oscillator >> come from >> > > I bought a new 1 W SDR1000 last month before the announcement about > the 100 W-only version came. > I disassembled the unit to have a look at the termistor. It is a small > disk of approx 8 mm diameter and 2 mm thickness which is soldered or > glued with a conductive compound on to the case of oscillator QG1. A > wire is soldered to the top of the disk which is connected directly to > the terminal strip and + 13.8 V dc. The grounded case of the crystal > oscillator serves as return pass and minus. It seems to be a combined > heater / termistor with approx 50 ohm att room temp. and 150 ohm at > operation temp. > Hope this sheds some light upon how the preheater / termistor is fed. > > groeten van > > SM6OMH Willi > > - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Brian Kassel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; > Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 11:09 PM > Subject: Re: [Flexradio] More Strange Frequency Drift Problem > > >> I am not sure where the power for the heater on the 200MHz oscilator >> come from >> >> power to the 200MHz oscilator: >> PIOboard [AVDD] IC9(TPS76833) pin5+6 to interconnect pin 10 >> TRXboard power to 200MHz oscilator pin14 [AVDD] J7pin10 (interconnect) >> interconnect J7 is a 12 pin connector >> >> I hope it helps you >> 73 peter pa0pvn >> >> groeten Peter >> petervn(a)hetnet.nl <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ; pa0pvn(a)hetnet.nl >> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ; >> pa0pvn(a)gmail.com ; pa0pvn(a)amsat.org . >> >> >> >> >> Van: [EMAIL PROTECTED] namens Brian Kassel >> Verzonden: za 6-1-2007 22:16 >> Aan: flexradio@flex-radio.biz >> Onderwerp: Re: [Flexradio] More Strange Frequency Drift Problem >> >> >> >> Folks: >> >> Can someone tell me where the regulated voltage for the 200 MHz. >> oscillator comes from? It isn't clear to me in the schematic. I am >> investigating a 22 HZ oscillator frequency change from TX to RX that >> occurs in the first 10 seconds, then stabilizes to less than 1 Hz >> change. . Temperature doesn't seem to be the culprit, and as far as I >> can see, there is no switching or changing of loading on the >> oscillator between TX and RX. >> Still fighting the uphill battle to determine my frequency shift >> problem. >> >> Brian K7RE >> >> >> >> ___ >> FlexRadio mailing list >> FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz >> http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz >> Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ >> FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ >> >> FlexRadio Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ >> >> >> -- next part -- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> http://mail.flex-radio.biz/pipermail/flexradio_flex-radio.biz/attachments/20070106/87177bc4/attachment.html >> >> >> ___ >> FlexRadio mailing list >> FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz >> http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz >> Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ >> FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ >> >> FlexRadio Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ >> > > > > ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ FlexRadio Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] More Strange Frequency Drift Problem
Thanks Willi, That's is new to me. I have not disassembled the print stack jet. I expected some NTC an opamp and so on. The heater must be a PTC, these devices possesses a sharp rice of the resistance at a defined temperature, this way making a stable temperature. In the past I have used PTC's for that purpose. The lowest specific temperature available at that time was about 70 degrees C. I wonder what that temp of this device is. PTC's are widely used in the demagnetisation circuits in colour televisions, in series with de demagnetisation coil on the picture tube. As the resistance rises, the current can go down to almost nothing, provided that the PTC is thermally isolated. In the SDR1000 some current will flow due to the heat loss trough the oscillator. I do not think that the PTC is the culprit, the final temperature is only slightly dependent on the voltage, and will not give a fast nor step like change (in the frequency) as the heat transfer is also slowly. Still wondering what happens. 73 peter pa0pvn groeten Peter petervn(a)hetnet.nl <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ; pa0pvn(a)hetnet.nl <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ; pa0pvn(a)gmail.com ; pa0pvn(a)amsat.org . Van: Willi Reppel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Verzonden: zo 7-1-2007 11:48 Aan: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Brian Kassel; flexradio@flex-radio.biz Onderwerp: Re: [Flexradio] More Strange Frequency Drift Problem Peter, You wrote: >I am not sure where the power for the heater on the 200MHz oscillator come >from > I bought a new 1 W SDR1000 last month before the announcement about the 100 W-only version came. I disassembled the unit to have a look at the termistor. It is a small disk of approx 8 mm diameter and 2 mm thickness which is soldered or glued with a conductive compound on to the case of oscillator QG1. A wire is soldered to the top of the disk which is connected directly to the terminal strip and + 13.8 V dc. The grounded case of the crystal oscillator serves as return pass and minus. It seems to be a combined heater / termistor with approx 50 ohm att room temp. and 150 ohm at operation temp. Hope this sheds some light upon how the preheater / termistor is fed. groeten van SM6OMH Willi snip -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.flex-radio.biz/pipermail/flexradio_flex-radio.biz/attachments/20070107/27a3dd46/attachment.html ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ FlexRadio Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] More Strange Frequency Drift Problem
Peter, You wrote: >I am not sure where the power for the heater on the 200MHz oscillator come >from > I bought a new 1 W SDR1000 last month before the announcement about the 100 W-only version came. I disassembled the unit to have a look at the termistor. It is a small disk of approx 8 mm diameter and 2 mm thickness which is soldered or glued with a conductive compound on to the case of oscillator QG1. A wire is soldered to the top of the disk which is connected directly to the terminal strip and + 13.8 V dc. The grounded case of the crystal oscillator serves as return pass and minus. It seems to be a combined heater / termistor with approx 50 ohm att room temp. and 150 ohm at operation temp. Hope this sheds some light upon how the preheater / termistor is fed. groeten van SM6OMH Willi - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Brian Kassel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 11:09 PM Subject: Re: [Flexradio] More Strange Frequency Drift Problem >I am not sure where the power for the heater on the 200MHz oscilator come >from > > power to the 200MHz oscilator: > PIOboard [AVDD] IC9(TPS76833) pin5+6 to interconnect pin 10 > TRXboard power to 200MHz oscilator pin14 [AVDD] J7pin10 (interconnect) > interconnect J7 is a 12 pin connector > > I hope it helps you > 73 peter pa0pvn > > groeten Peter > petervn(a)hetnet.nl <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ; pa0pvn(a)hetnet.nl > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ; > pa0pvn(a)gmail.com ; pa0pvn(a)amsat.org . > > > > > Van: [EMAIL PROTECTED] namens Brian Kassel > Verzonden: za 6-1-2007 22:16 > Aan: flexradio@flex-radio.biz > Onderwerp: Re: [Flexradio] More Strange Frequency Drift Problem > > > > Folks: > > Can someone tell me where the regulated voltage for the 200 MHz. > oscillator comes from? It isn't clear to me in the schematic. I am > investigating a 22 HZ oscillator frequency change from TX to RX that > occurs in the first 10 seconds, then stabilizes to less than 1 Hz > change. . Temperature doesn't seem to be the culprit, and as far as I > can see, there is no switching or changing of loading on the > oscillator between TX and RX. > Still fighting the uphill battle to determine my frequency shift problem. > > Brian K7RE > > > > ___ > FlexRadio mailing list > FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz > http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz > Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ > FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ > > FlexRadio Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ > > > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://mail.flex-radio.biz/pipermail/flexradio_flex-radio.biz/attachments/20070106/87177bc4/attachment.html > ___ > FlexRadio mailing list > FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz > http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz > Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ > FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ > > FlexRadio Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ > ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ FlexRadio Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] More Strange Frequency Drift Problem
Hello Ahti : I didn't realize that the thermister was powered directly from the raw DC input. I am using a commercial power supply, an SEC 1223 switcher. The drift is the same regardless of TX power levels, even down at the 5 Watt level. Wouldn't the drift be more severe at the higher power levels? Also, if this is the case, are there any others on this list that see the 22 (or so) HZ change from TX to RX? It is pretty apparent on the waterfall in the digital modes like PSK-31. The drift is the same on two different supplies, and both are regulated. I see very little change on the digital voltmeter as well from TX to RX. It would seem to me that others would see this shift as well, given average power supplies etc. Then again, I might not see the whole picture. ;) Brian K7RE Ahti Aintila wrote: > Brian, > > This is just my guess: > > The thermistor heating the oscillator takes its power directly from > the 13.8 V source. Switching from RX to TX will change the total > current and possibly causes a minor voltage change. That would disturb > shortly the temperature equilibrium of the thermistor/oscillator > system due to the thermal transfer delay. > > 73, Ahti OH2RZ > > > On 06/01/07, Brian Kassel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Folks: >> >> Can someone tell me where the regulated voltage for the 200 MHz. >> oscillator comes from? It isn't clear to me in the schematic. I am >> investigating a 22 HZ oscillator frequency change from TX to RX that >> occurs in the first 10 seconds, then stabilizes to less than 1 Hz >> change. . Temperature doesn't seem to be the culprit, and as far as I >> can see, there is no switching or changing of loading on the >> oscillator between TX and RX. >> Still fighting the uphill battle to determine my frequency shift >> problem. >> >> Brian K7RE >> >> >> >> ___ >> FlexRadio mailing list >> FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz >> http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz >> Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ >> FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ >> >> FlexRadio Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ >> > > ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ FlexRadio Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] More Strange Frequency Drift Problem
Brian, This is just my guess: The thermistor heating the oscillator takes its power directly from the 13.8 V source. Switching from RX to TX will change the total current and possibly causes a minor voltage change. That would disturb shortly the temperature equilibrium of the thermistor/oscillator system due to the thermal transfer delay. 73, Ahti OH2RZ On 06/01/07, Brian Kassel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Folks: > > Can someone tell me where the regulated voltage for the 200 MHz. > oscillator comes from? It isn't clear to me in the schematic. I am > investigating a 22 HZ oscillator frequency change from TX to RX that > occurs in the first 10 seconds, then stabilizes to less than 1 Hz > change. . Temperature doesn't seem to be the culprit, and as far as I > can see, there is no switching or changing of loading on the > oscillator between TX and RX. > Still fighting the uphill battle to determine my frequency shift problem. > > Brian K7RE > > > > ___ > FlexRadio mailing list > FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz > http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz > Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ > FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ > > FlexRadio Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ > ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ FlexRadio Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] More Strange Frequency Drift Problem
I am not sure where the power for the heater on the 200MHz oscilator come from power to the 200MHz oscilator: PIOboard [AVDD] IC9(TPS76833) pin5+6 to interconnect pin 10 TRXboard power to 200MHz oscilator pin14 [AVDD] J7pin10 (interconnect) interconnect J7 is a 12 pin connector I hope it helps you 73 peter pa0pvn groeten Peter petervn(a)hetnet.nl <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ; pa0pvn(a)hetnet.nl <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ; pa0pvn(a)gmail.com ; pa0pvn(a)amsat.org . Van: [EMAIL PROTECTED] namens Brian Kassel Verzonden: za 6-1-2007 22:16 Aan: flexradio@flex-radio.biz Onderwerp: Re: [Flexradio] More Strange Frequency Drift Problem Folks: Can someone tell me where the regulated voltage for the 200 MHz. oscillator comes from? It isn't clear to me in the schematic. I am investigating a 22 HZ oscillator frequency change from TX to RX that occurs in the first 10 seconds, then stabilizes to less than 1 Hz change. . Temperature doesn't seem to be the culprit, and as far as I can see, there is no switching or changing of loading on the oscillator between TX and RX. Still fighting the uphill battle to determine my frequency shift problem. Brian K7RE ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ FlexRadio Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.flex-radio.biz/pipermail/flexradio_flex-radio.biz/attachments/20070106/87177bc4/attachment.html ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ FlexRadio Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] More Strange Frequency Drift Problem
Folks: Can someone tell me where the regulated voltage for the 200 MHz. oscillator comes from? It isn't clear to me in the schematic. I am investigating a 22 HZ oscillator frequency change from TX to RX that occurs in the first 10 seconds, then stabilizes to less than 1 Hz change. . Temperature doesn't seem to be the culprit, and as far as I can see, there is no switching or changing of loading on the oscillator between TX and RX. Still fighting the uphill battle to determine my frequency shift problem. Brian K7RE ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ FlexRadio Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] More Strange Frequency Drift Problem
Brian, while you're at it look for cold solder joist at the crystal. John P. Basilotto W5GI Marketing and Sales 512 535-5266 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Kassel Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 5:44 PM To: Maarten N1DZ Cc: flexradio@flex-radio.biz; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Jim Lux Subject: Re: [Flexradio] More Strange Frequency Drift Problem Hi Maarten: Thanks for the information. More and more it is looking like a hardware problem, but hopefully it will be easy to solve. Tomorrow I will attempt to measure the 200 MHz. oscillator frequency. Got to be getting pretty close to the culprit that is causing the short term drift. Brian K7RE Maarten N1DZ wrote: > The same drift you described I encountered once in my 2m transverter. > I had stabilized the transverter with a thermistor soldered to the > crystal. > Everytime I transmitted the voltage would sag a little causing a > temparature change that caused the oscilator to drift a little. > It would only occur in high duty modes. Ultimately I gave the > thermistor its own power supply. After that the problem was solved. > Good luck and let us know if you are able to solve it. > 73 Maarten N1DZ > > On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 17:00:57 -0500, Brian Kassel > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Hi Jim: >> >> Thanks for the note. Let's see if I can describe to you what I >> see. After even a short transmission of, say, 5 seconds, running >> something like 5W, the frequency of the received PSK-31 signal slowly >> moves to the left on the waterfall display of my MixW program traveling >> about the width of a typical PSK-31 signal in about 2-3 seconds. There >> seems to be no greater frequency shift running 50W for periods up to 1 >> minute duration. I am not sure if my TX frequency is varying. I can't >> tell by ear at this point on another receiver. I have a frequency >> counter, and can measure the TX frequency on CW if that will provide any >> insight. The PS should have no voltage sag at this low power level. I >> use it for other projects. It is a commercial switching supply SEC >> 1223. Since I didn't really suspect the PS, I haven't as yet done any >> measurements. on it.I certainly appreciate any assistance you can >> provide. >> >> Brian K7RE >> Jim Lux wrote: >> >>> At 12:22 PM 12/31/2006, Brian Kassel wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Ross: >>>> >>>> As I had mentioned in 2 messages to Tim: >>>> >>>> "I also got a reply from Ken, N9VV. He basically agrees with you, >>>> and >>>> I gladly accept the turn on drift, no problem. I stand informed and >>>> educated by you both, thanks! >>>> >>>>What does bother me though is the drift that occurs for about 2 >>>> seconds after going from TX to RX. This same amount of drift >>>> happens no >>>> matter what power level is run, and no matter for what time period >>>> the >>>> transmission occurs. Makes for tough operating in a digital mode >>>> contest, which is my main operation here. I have never seen this >>>> mentioned on the Flex reflector. Owing to the fact that the drift >>>> amount and time to stabilize remains the same, it doesn't seem like >>>> any >>>> temperature related phenomena. If this is inherent to normal >>>> operation >>>> of the SDR-1000, then it would appear that either the K2WS mod, or the >>>> GPS mod may be in order. I really want to be sure though before I >>>> spend >>>> the big bucks, that there is no other alternative. " >>>> >>>> " I should have mentioned before that I did indeed test with the >>>> AFC on >>>> and off in both sound card programs (MixW and Digipan), no >>>> difference in >>>> the drift was seen in any case, still a few tens of Hz. " >>>> >>>> So even accepting the short initial turn on, I am still saddled with >>>> the TX-RX drift. Also, I am not totally sure that going with the K2WS >>>> or GPS mod, the TX-RX drift will be cured. Still open for any >>>> ideas! >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Something weird is going on. There shouldn't be that much change in >>> the frequency just changing from Tx to Rx and back. Is your power >>> supply voltage varying (although, I think the XO runs off a regulated >>> 5V)? Is the frequency change a &q
Re: [Flexradio] More Strange Frequency Drift Problem
Hi Maarten: Thanks for the information. More and more it is looking like a hardware problem, but hopefully it will be easy to solve. Tomorrow I will attempt to measure the 200 MHz. oscillator frequency. Got to be getting pretty close to the culprit that is causing the short term drift. Brian K7RE Maarten N1DZ wrote: > The same drift you described I encountered once in my 2m transverter. > I had stabilized the transverter with a thermistor soldered to the > crystal. > Everytime I transmitted the voltage would sag a little causing a > temparature change that caused the oscilator to drift a little. > It would only occur in high duty modes. Ultimately I gave the > thermistor its own power supply. After that the problem was solved. > Good luck and let us know if you are able to solve it. > 73 Maarten N1DZ > > On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 17:00:57 -0500, Brian Kassel > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Hi Jim: >> >> Thanks for the note. Let's see if I can describe to you what I >> see. After even a short transmission of, say, 5 seconds, running >> something like 5W, the frequency of the received PSK-31 signal slowly >> moves to the left on the waterfall display of my MixW program traveling >> about the width of a typical PSK-31 signal in about 2-3 seconds. There >> seems to be no greater frequency shift running 50W for periods up to 1 >> minute duration. I am not sure if my TX frequency is varying. I can't >> tell by ear at this point on another receiver. I have a frequency >> counter, and can measure the TX frequency on CW if that will provide any >> insight. The PS should have no voltage sag at this low power level. I >> use it for other projects. It is a commercial switching supply SEC >> 1223. Since I didn't really suspect the PS, I haven't as yet done any >> measurements. on it.I certainly appreciate any assistance you can >> provide. >> >> Brian K7RE >> Jim Lux wrote: >> >>> At 12:22 PM 12/31/2006, Brian Kassel wrote: >>> Hi Ross: As I had mentioned in 2 messages to Tim: "I also got a reply from Ken, N9VV. He basically agrees with you, and I gladly accept the turn on drift, no problem. I stand informed and educated by you both, thanks! What does bother me though is the drift that occurs for about 2 seconds after going from TX to RX. This same amount of drift happens no matter what power level is run, and no matter for what time period the transmission occurs. Makes for tough operating in a digital mode contest, which is my main operation here. I have never seen this mentioned on the Flex reflector. Owing to the fact that the drift amount and time to stabilize remains the same, it doesn't seem like any temperature related phenomena. If this is inherent to normal operation of the SDR-1000, then it would appear that either the K2WS mod, or the GPS mod may be in order. I really want to be sure though before I spend the big bucks, that there is no other alternative. " " I should have mentioned before that I did indeed test with the AFC on and off in both sound card programs (MixW and Digipan), no difference in the drift was seen in any case, still a few tens of Hz. " So even accepting the short initial turn on, I am still saddled with the TX-RX drift. Also, I am not totally sure that going with the K2WS or GPS mod, the TX-RX drift will be cured. Still open for any ideas! >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Something weird is going on. There shouldn't be that much change in >>> the frequency just changing from Tx to Rx and back. Is your power >>> supply voltage varying (although, I think the XO runs off a regulated >>> 5V)? Is the frequency change a "step" change or a slow drift to a new >>> steady state (where slow is a couple seconds).. >>> >>> My SDR1000s (old ones, no thermistors) drift on initial power up, but >>> are rock steady shifting between Tx and Rx. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> James Lux, P.E. >>> Spacecraft Radio Frequency Subsystems Group >>> Flight Communications Systems Section >>> Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Mail Stop 161-213 >>> 4800 Oak Grove Drive >>> Pasadena CA 91109 >>> tel: (818)354-2075 >>> fax: (818)393-6875 >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> ___ >> FlexRadio mailing list >> FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz >> http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz >> Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ >> FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com >> >> --- >> >> >> Text inserted by Platinum 2007: >> >> This message has NOT been classified as spam. If it is unsolicited >> mail (spam), click on the following link to reclassify it: >> http://127.0.0.1:6083/Panda?ID=pav_2795&SPAM=true >> --
Re: [Flexradio] More Strange Frequency Drift Problem
The same drift you described I encountered once in my 2m transverter. I had stabilized the transverter with a thermistor soldered to the crystal. Everytime I transmitted the voltage would sag a little causing a temparature change that caused the oscilator to drift a little. It would only occur in high duty modes. Ultimately I gave the thermistor its own power supply. After that the problem was solved. Good luck and let us know if you are able to solve it. 73 Maarten N1DZ On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 17:00:57 -0500, Brian Kassel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Jim: > > Thanks for the note. Let's see if I can describe to you what I > see. After even a short transmission of, say, 5 seconds, running > something like 5W, the frequency of the received PSK-31 signal slowly > moves to the left on the waterfall display of my MixW program traveling > about the width of a typical PSK-31 signal in about 2-3 seconds. There > seems to be no greater frequency shift running 50W for periods up to 1 > minute duration. I am not sure if my TX frequency is varying. I can't > tell by ear at this point on another receiver. I have a frequency > counter, and can measure the TX frequency on CW if that will provide any > insight. The PS should have no voltage sag at this low power level. I > use it for other projects. It is a commercial switching supply SEC > 1223. Since I didn't really suspect the PS, I haven't as yet done any > measurements. on it.I certainly appreciate any assistance you can > provide. > > Brian K7RE > Jim Lux wrote: > >> At 12:22 PM 12/31/2006, Brian Kassel wrote: >> >>> Hi Ross: >>> >>> As I had mentioned in 2 messages to Tim: >>> >>> "I also got a reply from Ken, N9VV. He basically agrees with you, and >>> I gladly accept the turn on drift, no problem. I stand informed and >>> educated by you both, thanks! >>> >>>What does bother me though is the drift that occurs for about 2 >>> seconds after going from TX to RX. This same amount of drift happens >>> no >>> matter what power level is run, and no matter for what time period the >>> transmission occurs. Makes for tough operating in a digital mode >>> contest, which is my main operation here. I have never seen this >>> mentioned on the Flex reflector. Owing to the fact that the drift >>> amount and time to stabilize remains the same, it doesn't seem like any >>> temperature related phenomena. If this is inherent to normal operation >>> of the SDR-1000, then it would appear that either the K2WS mod, or the >>> GPS mod may be in order. I really want to be sure though before I >>> spend >>> the big bucks, that there is no other alternative. " >>> >>> " I should have mentioned before that I did indeed test with the AFC on >>> and off in both sound card programs (MixW and Digipan), no difference >>> in >>> the drift was seen in any case, still a few tens of Hz. " >>> >>> So even accepting the short initial turn on, I am still saddled with >>> the TX-RX drift. Also, I am not totally sure that going with the K2WS >>> or GPS mod, the TX-RX drift will be cured. Still open for any >>> ideas! >> >> >> >> Something weird is going on. There shouldn't be that much change in >> the frequency just changing from Tx to Rx and back. Is your power >> supply voltage varying (although, I think the XO runs off a regulated >> 5V)? Is the frequency change a "step" change or a slow drift to a new >> steady state (where slow is a couple seconds).. >> >> My SDR1000s (old ones, no thermistors) drift on initial power up, but >> are rock steady shifting between Tx and Rx. >> >> >> >> >> James Lux, P.E. >> Spacecraft Radio Frequency Subsystems Group >> Flight Communications Systems Section >> Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Mail Stop 161-213 >> 4800 Oak Grove Drive >> Pasadena CA 91109 >> tel: (818)354-2075 >> fax: (818)393-6875 >> >> >> > > > > ___ > FlexRadio mailing list > FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz > http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz > Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ > FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com > > --- > Text inserted by Platinum 2007: > > This message has NOT been classified as spam. If it is unsolicited mail > (spam), click on the following link to reclassify it: > http://127.0.0.1:6083/Panda?ID=pav_2795&SPAM=true > --- > -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com
Re: [Flexradio] More Strange Frequency Drift Problem
Brian Just remembered something. Sound card out and in ports may not be on the same frequency! Had this problem years ago when doing SSTV. MMTTY has in the "MISC" Tab the ability to correct for "TX Offset" in HZ. If one operates using AFSK, and monitoring your xmit signal, the AFC in MMTTY will lock on to your xmit audio freq. When switching back to receive, the AFC will take a second or so to lock back the the signal you want to copy. Is this what you are observing? Is it the same offset each time? Can you move the offset be changing the setting in MMTTY? I just looked at one of my soundcards a SB-16 (ISA). It is set for a calibrated clock of 8002 Hz. Not the standard 8kHz. I always calibrate and adjust the soundcards based on WWV. (Software is built into MMTTY). Good luck and keep asking --- de Jerry NO2T At 12:33 PM 1/1/2007 -0700, you wrote: >Hi Jim: > This is an excellent idea. I actually thought of it, but without a >schematic, I was a little hesitant to open the case and probe around. >I'll open up the cabinet and try it tomorrow. I'll let the reflector >know what I find too, Someday, someone else just may experience these >symptoms, whatever the ultimate fix might be. > >Brian K7RE >Jim Lux wrote: > >> At 08:06 PM 12/31/2006, Brian Kassel wrote: >> Have you tried using your frequency counter to count the 200 MHz >> reference oscillator. A small loop of wire near the DDS should pick >> it up. As I recall, there's some jumper pins that carry the 200 MHz, >> so you could take a small piece of (insulated) wirewrap wire and wrap >> it around the pin to capacitively couple it off. >> >> If the 200 MHz stays fixed, then you know that there's something else >> going on. >> >> Jim, W6RMK >> >> >> >> > > > >___ >FlexRadio mailing list >FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz >http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz >Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ >FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com > ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com
Re: [Flexradio] More Strange Frequency Drift Problem
Hi Jim: This is an excellent idea. I actually thought of it, but without a schematic, I was a little hesitant to open the case and probe around. I'll open up the cabinet and try it tomorrow. I'll let the reflector know what I find too, Someday, someone else just may experience these symptoms, whatever the ultimate fix might be. Brian K7RE Jim Lux wrote: > At 08:06 PM 12/31/2006, Brian Kassel wrote: > Have you tried using your frequency counter to count the 200 MHz > reference oscillator. A small loop of wire near the DDS should pick > it up. As I recall, there's some jumper pins that carry the 200 MHz, > so you could take a small piece of (insulated) wirewrap wire and wrap > it around the pin to capacitively couple it off. > > If the 200 MHz stays fixed, then you know that there's something else > going on. > > Jim, W6RMK > > > > ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com
Re: [Flexradio] More Strange Frequency Drift Problem
At 08:06 PM 12/31/2006, Brian Kassel wrote: Have you tried using your frequency counter to count the 200 MHz reference oscillator. A small loop of wire near the DDS should pick it up. As I recall, there's some jumper pins that carry the 200 MHz, so you could take a small piece of (insulated) wirewrap wire and wrap it around the pin to capacitively couple it off. If the 200 MHz stays fixed, then you know that there's something else going on. Jim, W6RMK ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com
Re: [Flexradio] More Strange Frequency Drift Problem
Hello Brian My setup is similar : SDR with Phil's vCom and VAC 4.03. The difference is that the digital software is either PSK31 deluxe or the new DM780, both by HB9DRV, Simon Brown. I have not noticed any anormal drift between TX and RX. Setup/audio/VAC : Buffer size : 2048 Sample rate : 48000 RX gain : -35 TX gain : 0 Enable VAC for digital modes Mono/Stereo : unchecked Good luck ! José F5JD Brian Kassel a écrit : > Hi John: > > Thanks for the message. Yes, the stability from turn on is no > problem at all for me. It is the 2-3 second drift from TX back to RX > that is worrisome. With so much help on the reflector, I feel sure > that we will find the answer. I wonder if any others that are using VAC > 4.03 with the virtual sound card, the N8VB virtual com ports and the SDR > with the digital mode programs MiXW and Digipan have see what I am > describing? AS I have determined that the PS is not at fault, assume > that the hardware in the SDR-1000 is OK, I am looking at possible > differences between my set up and other folks. This might give me a > clue with which to work. > > Brian K7RE > > John Basilotto wrote: > > >> Brian, >> >> The newer SDRs have a 3 minute stabilization period. The older units took 15 >> min to stabilize. The radio should be very stable after 3 minutes provided >> your power supply voltage is stable. I leave my SDR on 7/24 and experience >> about 5-10 Hz drift a day. I usually do an auto calibrate once a day and >> don't have any drift problems. >> >> John P. Basilotto >> W5GI >> Marketing and Sales >> 512 535-5266 >> >> -Original Message- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Kassel >> Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 10:35 AM >> To: flexradio@flex-radio.biz; [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> Subject: [Flexradio] More Strange Frequency Drift Problem >> >> Folks: >> >> I have been told that with the newer SDR's (mine is only a few weeks old), >> no turn on drift should be experienced with the thermistor modification. >> However I see drift of probably 100 HZ or so immediately after turn on, for >> about 10 minutes or so. I have the feeling that the thermistor feature is >> not working in hardware. Am I correct? Is there any way to fix this? I am >> a retired electronic technician, and have a pretty good lab set up here, but >> don't want to void the warranty. Any and all help will be appreciated. >> >> Brian K7RE >> >> >> >> ___ >> FlexRadio mailing list >> FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz >> http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz >> Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ >> FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > ___ > FlexRadio mailing list > FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz > http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz > Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ > FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com > > > ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com
Re: [Flexradio] More Strange Frequency Drift Problem
Hi John: Thanks for the message. Yes, the stability from turn on is no problem at all for me. It is the 2-3 second drift from TX back to RX that is worrisome. With so much help on the reflector, I feel sure that we will find the answer. I wonder if any others that are using VAC 4.03 with the virtual sound card, the N8VB virtual com ports and the SDR with the digital mode programs MiXW and Digipan have see what I am describing? AS I have determined that the PS is not at fault, assume that the hardware in the SDR-1000 is OK, I am looking at possible differences between my set up and other folks. This might give me a clue with which to work. Brian K7RE John Basilotto wrote: >Brian, > >The newer SDRs have a 3 minute stabilization period. The older units took 15 >min to stabilize. The radio should be very stable after 3 minutes provided >your power supply voltage is stable. I leave my SDR on 7/24 and experience >about 5-10 Hz drift a day. I usually do an auto calibrate once a day and >don't have any drift problems. > >John P. Basilotto >W5GI >Marketing and Sales >512 535-5266 > >-Original Message- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Kassel >Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 10:35 AM >To: flexradio@flex-radio.biz; [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: [Flexradio] More Strange Frequency Drift Problem > >Folks: > > I have been told that with the newer SDR's (mine is only a few weeks old), >no turn on drift should be experienced with the thermistor modification. >However I see drift of probably 100 HZ or so immediately after turn on, for >about 10 minutes or so. I have the feeling that the thermistor feature is >not working in hardware. Am I correct? Is there any way to fix this? I am >a retired electronic technician, and have a pretty good lab set up here, but >don't want to void the warranty. Any and all help will be appreciated. > >Brian K7RE > > > >___ >FlexRadio mailing list >FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz >http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz >Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ >FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com > > > > > > > ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com
Re: [Flexradio] More Strange Frequency Drift Problem
Brian Kassel wrote: > Hi Larry: > > Thanks for your message and suggestions. I changed out the PS with > another SEC 22 A version, and the symptoms persist. Please keep in > mind that the symptoms also persist when running only 5W. I do > appreciate the input as to the fact that a heavier PS is required > than the typical 20 or 22A capacity version. > > Brian K7RE > > Larry Loen wrote: > Well, thanks for trying. Sorry it wasn't a magic bullet for you. It was worth a shot anyway. Larry WO0Z ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com
Re: [Flexradio] More Strange Frequency Drift Problem
Hi Larry: Thanks for your message and suggestions. I changed out the PS with another SEC 22 A version, and the symptoms persist. Please keep in mind that the symptoms also persist when running only 5W. I do appreciate the input as to the fact that a heavier PS is required than the typical 20 or 22A capacity version. Brian K7RE Larry Loen wrote: > Brian Kassel wrote: > >> Hi Jim: >> >>Thanks for the note. Let's see if I can describe to you what I >> see. After even a short transmission of, say, 5 seconds, running >> something like 5W, the frequency of the received PSK-31 signal slowly >> moves to the left on the waterfall display of my MixW program >> traveling about the width of a typical PSK-31 signal in about 2-3 >> seconds. There seems to be no greater frequency shift running 50W >> for periods up to 1 minute duration. I am not sure if my TX >> frequency is varying. I can't tell by ear at this point on another >> receiver. I have a frequency counter, and can measure the TX >> frequency on CW if that will provide any insight. The PS should have >> no voltage sag at this low power level. I use it for other >> projects. It is a commercial switching supply SEC 1223. Since I >> didn't really suspect the PS, I haven't as yet done any measurements. >> on it.I certainly appreciate any assistance you can provide. >> >> Brian K7RE >> Jim Lux wrote: >> >> > > As far as I can tell (and, sample of one notwithstanding, I think I > have a lot of hours with the rig) this is a new symptom. > > I have had various problems, but never a shift in frequency between > transmit and receive whether the rig was on for hours or just turned > on, at least not so far as I could ever tell. > > Do check the power supply, though. And, check the rating. A peak > rating is worthless. You need about a Astron 35 amp supply or better > to run this thing. I ran an Astron 20 (simple math said it worked, > but 20 was a peak rating) and it wasn't enough. But, it also wasn't > easy to detect. In my case, it fooled me by acting like QSK when it > was really just intermittently cutting out. > > > > Larry WO0Z > > > > > ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com
Re: [Flexradio] More Strange Frequency Drift Problem
Brian Kassel wrote: >Hi Jim: > >Thanks for the note. Let's see if I can describe to you what I >see. After even a short transmission of, say, 5 seconds, running >something like 5W, the frequency of the received PSK-31 signal slowly >moves to the left on the waterfall display of my MixW program traveling >about the width of a typical PSK-31 signal in about 2-3 seconds. There >seems to be no greater frequency shift running 50W for periods up to 1 >minute duration. I am not sure if my TX frequency is varying. I can't >tell by ear at this point on another receiver. I have a frequency >counter, and can measure the TX frequency on CW if that will provide any >insight. The PS should have no voltage sag at this low power level. I >use it for other projects. It is a commercial switching supply SEC >1223. Since I didn't really suspect the PS, I haven't as yet done any >measurements. on it.I certainly appreciate any assistance you can >provide. > >Brian K7RE >Jim Lux wrote: > > As far as I can tell (and, sample of one notwithstanding, I think I have a lot of hours with the rig) this is a new symptom. I have had various problems, but never a shift in frequency between transmit and receive whether the rig was on for hours or just turned on, at least not so far as I could ever tell. Do check the power supply, though. And, check the rating. A peak rating is worthless. You need about a Astron 35 amp supply or better to run this thing. I ran an Astron 20 (simple math said it worked, but 20 was a peak rating) and it wasn't enough. But, it also wasn't easy to detect. In my case, it fooled me by acting like QSK when it was really just intermittently cutting out. Larry WO0Z ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com
Re: [Flexradio] More Strange Frequency Drift Problem
Hi Peter: Yes, it sure could be the sound card. I use the VAC 4-03 application so that the digital mode "sound card" is actually virtual. The SDR-1000 sound card is a Delta 66. The console is V 1.8.0. I can't seem to come up with a method to check the virtual sound card for frequency shift between TX and RX. There are never too many opinions and/or recommendations, so I appreciate your input and ideas. HNY to all EU Friends! Brian K7RE' [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > For what it is worth, can it be a soundcard related problem? > > > > " I should have mentioned before that I did indeed test with the AFC on > and off in both sound card programs (MixW and Digipan), no difference in > the drift was seen in any case, still a few tens of Hz. " (Brian K7RE) > > As I understand it, its only a small drift, Some odd things in a > soundcard > > could maybe change the actual clock frequency a bit just after switching > > between TX and RX, This could result in a small change in the soundcard > > output frequency and so in the transmitted signal > > > > Just a thought, I hope not to send anyone in the wrong direction > > > > Happy 2007 pa0pvn (70 minutes to go 2006) > > > groeten Peter > petervn(a)hetnet.nl <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ; pa0pvn(a)hetnet.nl > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ; > pa0pvn(a)gmail.com ; pa0pvn(a)amsat.org . > > > > Van: [EMAIL PROTECTED] namens Jim Lux > Verzonden: zo 31-12-2006 22:18 > Aan: Brian Kassel; Ross Stenberg > CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; flexradio@flex-radio.biz > Onderwerp: Re: [Flexradio] More Strange Frequency Drift Problem > > At 12:22 PM 12/31/2006, Brian Kassel wrote: > >Hi Ross: > > > > As I had mentioned in 2 messages to Tim: > > > > "I also got a reply from Ken, N9VV. He basically agrees with you, and > >I gladly accept the turn on drift, no problem. I stand informed and > >educated by you both, thanks! > > > >What does bother me though is the drift that occurs for about 2 > >seconds after going from TX to RX. This same amount of drift happens no > >matter what power level is run, and no matter for what time period the > >transmission occurs. Makes for tough operating in a digital mode > >contest, which is my main operation here. I have never seen this > >mentioned on the Flex reflector. Owing to the fact that the drift > >amount and time to stabilize remains the same, it doesn't seem like any > >temperature related phenomena. If this is inherent to normal operation > >of the SDR-1000, then it would appear that either the K2WS mod, or the > >GPS mod may be in order. I really want to be sure though before I spend > >the big bucks, that there is no other alternative. " > > > >" I should have mentioned before that I did indeed test with the AFC on > >and off in both sound card programs (MixW and Digipan), no difference in > >the drift was seen in any case, still a few tens of Hz. " > > > > So even accepting the short initial turn on, I am still saddled with > >the TX-RX drift. Also, I am not totally sure that going with the K2WS > >or GPS mod, the TX-RX drift will be cured. Still open for any ideas! > > > Something weird is going on. There shouldn't be that much change in > the frequency just changing from Tx to Rx and back. Is your power > supply voltage varying (although, I think the XO runs off a regulated > 5V)? Is the frequency change a "step" change or a slow drift to a > new steady state (where slow is a couple seconds).. > > My SDR1000s (old ones, no thermistors) drift on initial power up, but > are rock steady shifting between Tx and Rx. > > > > > James Lux, P.E. > Spacecraft Radio Frequency Subsystems Group > Flight Communications Systems Section > Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Mail Stop 161-213 > 4800 Oak Grove Drive > Pasadena CA 91109 > tel: (818)354-2075 > fax: (818)393-6875 > > > > ___ > FlexRadio mailing list > FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz > http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz > Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ > FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com <http://www.flex-radio.com/> > ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com
Re: [Flexradio] More Strange Frequency Drift Problem
Hi Jim: Thanks for the note. Let's see if I can describe to you what I see. After even a short transmission of, say, 5 seconds, running something like 5W, the frequency of the received PSK-31 signal slowly moves to the left on the waterfall display of my MixW program traveling about the width of a typical PSK-31 signal in about 2-3 seconds. There seems to be no greater frequency shift running 50W for periods up to 1 minute duration. I am not sure if my TX frequency is varying. I can't tell by ear at this point on another receiver. I have a frequency counter, and can measure the TX frequency on CW if that will provide any insight. The PS should have no voltage sag at this low power level. I use it for other projects. It is a commercial switching supply SEC 1223. Since I didn't really suspect the PS, I haven't as yet done any measurements. on it.I certainly appreciate any assistance you can provide. Brian K7RE Jim Lux wrote: > At 12:22 PM 12/31/2006, Brian Kassel wrote: > >> Hi Ross: >> >> As I had mentioned in 2 messages to Tim: >> >> "I also got a reply from Ken, N9VV. He basically agrees with you, and >> I gladly accept the turn on drift, no problem. I stand informed and >> educated by you both, thanks! >> >>What does bother me though is the drift that occurs for about 2 >> seconds after going from TX to RX. This same amount of drift happens no >> matter what power level is run, and no matter for what time period the >> transmission occurs. Makes for tough operating in a digital mode >> contest, which is my main operation here. I have never seen this >> mentioned on the Flex reflector. Owing to the fact that the drift >> amount and time to stabilize remains the same, it doesn't seem like any >> temperature related phenomena. If this is inherent to normal operation >> of the SDR-1000, then it would appear that either the K2WS mod, or the >> GPS mod may be in order. I really want to be sure though before I spend >> the big bucks, that there is no other alternative. " >> >> " I should have mentioned before that I did indeed test with the AFC on >> and off in both sound card programs (MixW and Digipan), no difference in >> the drift was seen in any case, still a few tens of Hz. " >> >> So even accepting the short initial turn on, I am still saddled with >> the TX-RX drift. Also, I am not totally sure that going with the K2WS >> or GPS mod, the TX-RX drift will be cured. Still open for any ideas! > > > > Something weird is going on. There shouldn't be that much change in > the frequency just changing from Tx to Rx and back. Is your power > supply voltage varying (although, I think the XO runs off a regulated > 5V)? Is the frequency change a "step" change or a slow drift to a new > steady state (where slow is a couple seconds).. > > My SDR1000s (old ones, no thermistors) drift on initial power up, but > are rock steady shifting between Tx and Rx. > > > > > James Lux, P.E. > Spacecraft Radio Frequency Subsystems Group > Flight Communications Systems Section > Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Mail Stop 161-213 > 4800 Oak Grove Drive > Pasadena CA 91109 > tel: (818)354-2075 > fax: (818)393-6875 > > > ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com
Re: [Flexradio] More Strange Frequency Drift Problem
Brian, The newer SDRs have a 3 minute stabilization period. The older units took 15 min to stabilize. The radio should be very stable after 3 minutes provided your power supply voltage is stable. I leave my SDR on 7/24 and experience about 5-10 Hz drift a day. I usually do an auto calibrate once a day and don't have any drift problems. John P. Basilotto W5GI Marketing and Sales 512 535-5266 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Kassel Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 10:35 AM To: flexradio@flex-radio.biz; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Flexradio] More Strange Frequency Drift Problem Folks: I have been told that with the newer SDR's (mine is only a few weeks old), no turn on drift should be experienced with the thermistor modification. However I see drift of probably 100 HZ or so immediately after turn on, for about 10 minutes or so. I have the feeling that the thermistor feature is not working in hardware. Am I correct? Is there any way to fix this? I am a retired electronic technician, and have a pretty good lab set up here, but don't want to void the warranty. Any and all help will be appreciated. Brian K7RE ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com
Re: [Flexradio] More Strange Frequency Drift Problem
For what it is worth, can it be a soundcard related problem? " I should have mentioned before that I did indeed test with the AFC on and off in both sound card programs (MixW and Digipan), no difference in the drift was seen in any case, still a few tens of Hz. " (Brian K7RE) As I understand it, its only a small drift, Some odd things in a soundcard could maybe change the actual clock frequency a bit just after switching between TX and RX, This could result in a small change in the soundcard output frequency and so in the transmitted signal Just a thought, I hope not to send anyone in the wrong direction Happy 2007 pa0pvn (70 minutes to go 2006) groeten Peter petervn(a)hetnet.nl <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ; pa0pvn(a)hetnet.nl <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ; pa0pvn(a)gmail.com ; pa0pvn(a)amsat.org . Van: [EMAIL PROTECTED] namens Jim Lux Verzonden: zo 31-12-2006 22:18 Aan: Brian Kassel; Ross Stenberg CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; flexradio@flex-radio.biz Onderwerp: Re: [Flexradio] More Strange Frequency Drift Problem At 12:22 PM 12/31/2006, Brian Kassel wrote: >Hi Ross: > > As I had mentioned in 2 messages to Tim: > > "I also got a reply from Ken, N9VV. He basically agrees with you, and >I gladly accept the turn on drift, no problem. I stand informed and >educated by you both, thanks! > >What does bother me though is the drift that occurs for about 2 >seconds after going from TX to RX. This same amount of drift happens no >matter what power level is run, and no matter for what time period the >transmission occurs. Makes for tough operating in a digital mode >contest, which is my main operation here. I have never seen this >mentioned on the Flex reflector. Owing to the fact that the drift >amount and time to stabilize remains the same, it doesn't seem like any >temperature related phenomena. If this is inherent to normal operation >of the SDR-1000, then it would appear that either the K2WS mod, or the >GPS mod may be in order. I really want to be sure though before I spend >the big bucks, that there is no other alternative. " > >" I should have mentioned before that I did indeed test with the AFC on >and off in both sound card programs (MixW and Digipan), no difference in >the drift was seen in any case, still a few tens of Hz. " > > So even accepting the short initial turn on, I am still saddled with >the TX-RX drift. Also, I am not totally sure that going with the K2WS >or GPS mod, the TX-RX drift will be cured. Still open for any ideas! Something weird is going on. There shouldn't be that much change in the frequency just changing from Tx to Rx and back. Is your power supply voltage varying (although, I think the XO runs off a regulated 5V)? Is the frequency change a "step" change or a slow drift to a new steady state (where slow is a couple seconds).. My SDR1000s (old ones, no thermistors) drift on initial power up, but are rock steady shifting between Tx and Rx. James Lux, P.E. Spacecraft Radio Frequency Subsystems Group Flight Communications Systems Section Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Mail Stop 161-213 4800 Oak Grove Drive Pasadena CA 91109 tel: (818)354-2075 fax: (818)393-6875 ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com <http://www.flex-radio.com/> -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.flex-radio.biz/pipermail/flexradio_flex-radio.biz/attachments/20061231/2fa15842/attachment.html ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com
Re: [Flexradio] More Strange Frequency Drift Problem
At 12:22 PM 12/31/2006, Brian Kassel wrote: >Hi Ross: > > As I had mentioned in 2 messages to Tim: > > "I also got a reply from Ken, N9VV. He basically agrees with you, and >I gladly accept the turn on drift, no problem. I stand informed and >educated by you both, thanks! > >What does bother me though is the drift that occurs for about 2 >seconds after going from TX to RX. This same amount of drift happens no >matter what power level is run, and no matter for what time period the >transmission occurs. Makes for tough operating in a digital mode >contest, which is my main operation here. I have never seen this >mentioned on the Flex reflector. Owing to the fact that the drift >amount and time to stabilize remains the same, it doesn't seem like any >temperature related phenomena. If this is inherent to normal operation >of the SDR-1000, then it would appear that either the K2WS mod, or the >GPS mod may be in order. I really want to be sure though before I spend >the big bucks, that there is no other alternative. " > >" I should have mentioned before that I did indeed test with the AFC on >and off in both sound card programs (MixW and Digipan), no difference in >the drift was seen in any case, still a few tens of Hz. " > > So even accepting the short initial turn on, I am still saddled with >the TX-RX drift. Also, I am not totally sure that going with the K2WS >or GPS mod, the TX-RX drift will be cured. Still open for any ideas! Something weird is going on. There shouldn't be that much change in the frequency just changing from Tx to Rx and back. Is your power supply voltage varying (although, I think the XO runs off a regulated 5V)? Is the frequency change a "step" change or a slow drift to a new steady state (where slow is a couple seconds).. My SDR1000s (old ones, no thermistors) drift on initial power up, but are rock steady shifting between Tx and Rx. James Lux, P.E. Spacecraft Radio Frequency Subsystems Group Flight Communications Systems Section Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Mail Stop 161-213 4800 Oak Grove Drive Pasadena CA 91109 tel: (818)354-2075 fax: (818)393-6875 ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com
Re: [Flexradio] More Strange Frequency Drift Problem
Hi Ross: As I had mentioned in 2 messages to Tim: "I also got a reply from Ken, N9VV. He basically agrees with you, and I gladly accept the turn on drift, no problem. I stand informed and educated by you both, thanks! What does bother me though is the drift that occurs for about 2 seconds after going from TX to RX. This same amount of drift happens no matter what power level is run, and no matter for what time period the transmission occurs. Makes for tough operating in a digital mode contest, which is my main operation here. I have never seen this mentioned on the Flex reflector. Owing to the fact that the drift amount and time to stabilize remains the same, it doesn't seem like any temperature related phenomena. If this is inherent to normal operation of the SDR-1000, then it would appear that either the K2WS mod, or the GPS mod may be in order. I really want to be sure though before I spend the big bucks, that there is no other alternative. " " I should have mentioned before that I did indeed test with the AFC on and off in both sound card programs (MixW and Digipan), no difference in the drift was seen in any case, still a few tens of Hz. " So even accepting the short initial turn on, I am still saddled with the TX-RX drift. Also, I am not totally sure that going with the K2WS or GPS mod, the TX-RX drift will be cured. Still open for any ideas! BTW, thanks to all who are trying to help, a Very Happy New Year to ALL! Brian K7RE Ross Stenberg wrote: >According to Flex-Radio "The early versions of the SDR-1000T took as long as >15 minutes to become frequency stable. The addition of the thermistor >results in a dramatic improvement; within 3 minutes the radio is as stable >as most radios with high stability oscillators." > >Seems as if there could be a problem. > >73 Ross K9COX > >- Original Message - >From: "Tim Ellison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: "Brian Kassel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; ; ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 1:19 PM >Subject: Re: [Flexradio] More Strange Frequency Drift Problem > > > > >>It takes a while for the XO to stabilize once the SDR-1000 is turned on, >>so what you are seeing is normal behavior. Mine does not have the >>therminstor and it takes about 30 minutes to stabilize. Taking 10 >>minutes to stabilize is not that bad since it is three times faster than >>mine. Remember it isn't a VCXO or an OCXO. >> >> >>-Tim >> >>Integrated Technical Services >>www.itsco.com >> >>"Si fractum non sit, id reficere" >>-Unknown Roman consultant >> >>-----Original Message- >>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Kassel >>Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 1:35 PM >>To: flexradio@flex-radio.biz; [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>Subject: [Flexradio] More Strange Frequency Drift Problem >> >>Folks: >> >> I have been told that with the newer SDR's (mine is only a few weeks >>old), no turn on drift should be experienced with the thermistor >>modification. However I see drift of probably 100 HZ or so immediately >>after turn on, for about 10 minutes or so. I have the feeling that the >>thermistor feature is not working in hardware. Am I correct? Is there >>any way to fix this? I am a retired electronic technician, and have a >>pretty good lab set up here, but don't want to void the warranty. Any >>and all help will be appreciated. >> >>Brian K7RE >> >> > > > > > ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com
Re: [Flexradio] More Strange Frequency Drift Problem
Hi Tim: Thanks for your very rapid reply on a Sunday and a Holiday to boot! I also got a reply from Ken, N9VV. He basically agrees with you, and I gladly accept the turn on drift, no problem. I stand informed and educated by you both, thanks! What does bother me though is the drift that occurs for about 2 seconds after going from TX to RX. This same amount of drift happens no matter what power level is run, and no matter for what time period the transmission occurs. Makes for tough operating in a digital mode contest, which is my main operation here. I have never seen this mentioned on the Flex reflector. Owing to the fact that the drift amount and time to stabilize remains the same, it doesn't seem like any temperature related phenomena. If this is inherent to normal operation of the SDR-1000, then it would appear that either the K2WS mod, or the GPS mod may be in order. I really want to be sure though before I spend the big bucks, that there is no other alternative. Brian K7RE Tim Ellison wrote: >It takes a while for the XO to stabilize once the SDR-1000 is turned on, >so what you are seeing is normal behavior. Mine does not have the >therminstor and it takes about 30 minutes to stabilize. Taking 10 >minutes to stabilize is not that bad since it is three times faster than >mine. Remember it isn't a VCXO or an OCXO. > > >-Tim > >Integrated Technical Services >www.itsco.com > >"Si fractum non sit, id reficere" >-Unknown Roman consultant > >-Original Message- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Kassel >Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 1:35 PM >To: flexradio@flex-radio.biz; [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: [Flexradio] More Strange Frequency Drift Problem > >Folks: > > I have been told that with the newer SDR's (mine is only a few weeks >old), no turn on drift should be experienced with the thermistor >modification. However I see drift of probably 100 HZ or so immediately >after turn on, for about 10 minutes or so. I have the feeling that the >thermistor feature is not working in hardware. Am I correct? Is there >any way to fix this? I am a retired electronic technician, and have a >pretty good lab set up here, but don't want to void the warranty. Any >and all help will be appreciated. > >Brian K7RE > > > >___ >FlexRadio mailing list >FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz >http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz >Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ >FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com > > > > ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com
Re: [Flexradio] More Strange Frequency Drift Problem
According to Flex-Radio "The early versions of the SDR-1000T took as long as 15 minutes to become frequency stable. The addition of the thermistor results in a dramatic improvement; within 3 minutes the radio is as stable as most radios with high stability oscillators." Seems as if there could be a problem. 73 Ross K9COX - Original Message - From: "Tim Ellison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Brian Kassel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; ; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 1:19 PM Subject: Re: [Flexradio] More Strange Frequency Drift Problem > It takes a while for the XO to stabilize once the SDR-1000 is turned on, > so what you are seeing is normal behavior. Mine does not have the > therminstor and it takes about 30 minutes to stabilize. Taking 10 > minutes to stabilize is not that bad since it is three times faster than > mine. Remember it isn't a VCXO or an OCXO. > > > -Tim > > Integrated Technical Services > www.itsco.com > > "Si fractum non sit, id reficere" > -Unknown Roman consultant > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Kassel > Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 1:35 PM > To: flexradio@flex-radio.biz; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: [Flexradio] More Strange Frequency Drift Problem > > Folks: > > I have been told that with the newer SDR's (mine is only a few weeks > old), no turn on drift should be experienced with the thermistor > modification. However I see drift of probably 100 HZ or so immediately > after turn on, for about 10 minutes or so. I have the feeling that the > thermistor feature is not working in hardware. Am I correct? Is there > any way to fix this? I am a retired electronic technician, and have a > pretty good lab set up here, but don't want to void the warranty. Any > and all help will be appreciated. > > Brian K7RE ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com
Re: [Flexradio] More Strange Frequency Drift Problem
It takes a while for the XO to stabilize once the SDR-1000 is turned on, so what you are seeing is normal behavior. Mine does not have the therminstor and it takes about 30 minutes to stabilize. Taking 10 minutes to stabilize is not that bad since it is three times faster than mine. Remember it isn't a VCXO or an OCXO. -Tim Integrated Technical Services www.itsco.com "Si fractum non sit, id reficere" -Unknown Roman consultant -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Kassel Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 1:35 PM To: flexradio@flex-radio.biz; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Flexradio] More Strange Frequency Drift Problem Folks: I have been told that with the newer SDR's (mine is only a few weeks old), no turn on drift should be experienced with the thermistor modification. However I see drift of probably 100 HZ or so immediately after turn on, for about 10 minutes or so. I have the feeling that the thermistor feature is not working in hardware. Am I correct? Is there any way to fix this? I am a retired electronic technician, and have a pretty good lab set up here, but don't want to void the warranty. Any and all help will be appreciated. Brian K7RE ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com
[Flexradio] More Strange Frequency Drift Problem
Folks: I have been told that with the newer SDR's (mine is only a few weeks old), no turn on drift should be experienced with the thermistor modification. However I see drift of probably 100 HZ or so immediately after turn on, for about 10 minutes or so. I have the feeling that the thermistor feature is not working in hardware. Am I correct? Is there any way to fix this? I am a retired electronic technician, and have a pretty good lab set up here, but don't want to void the warranty. Any and all help will be appreciated. Brian K7RE ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com
