Re: [Flightgear-devel] Another person selling FlightGear under dubious pretenses
Hi All, I hope this gets to the correct place and I am very sorry if it does not. It was recently bought to my attention that there appears to be an issue with a website I have recently created. www.flight-aviator.com This website uses the source code from the flight gear project and sells it. >From reviewing the GPL it appears this is able to be done as long as I do not limit others from doing the same, and either supply the source code with the persons purchase, or have a valid offer for them to obtain the source code. (to clear up this matter it is supplied on the CD the purchaser receives) As per the selling it under a different name, well I am actually in the process of compiling the game etc under this new name (basically re-branding this which I understand is also within the terms of the GPL) Once again source code, licenses etc will be supplied to the final purchaser. I have also included in the website text itself that this is the case so as not to deceive people. Please have a look under features (last two points) Based on the award winning Flight Gear project All from the thriving Open Source Community, this sim is forever changing No I am not a lawyer or pretend to be one and if there is something that I have done incorrectly, or something that can be done better, I am willing to fix this. Once this goes live I also wanted to contribute some funds to the project developers, or perhaps put it towards a new website I have heard they are after. This will be a percentage of the actual profit I receive. I understand I do not need to do this but I want this sim to be the best around for obvious reasons. But as I mentioned I am still awaiting the code to be fixed and compiled so it is not fully complete as of yet. I am sure that some people believe that selling open source software is not correct, but it appears the license allows this therefore there is a good reason for people to be able to do this. I am sure many people will have comments, however please remember that I do not want to mislead anyone, do anything illegal or break the terms of the GPL etc etc, I am positive I am not but would welcome any comments you may have if you think I am If I wanted to hide I would never have worked out how to send this to the site for viewing. I will also try to answer what you want to know and even look at a better way of portraying this software if this is necessary to keep the peace. Regards Andrew - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Another person selling FlightGear under dubious pretenses
Arnt Karlsen wrote: > ..excellent, then you would be in an excellent position to verify > there indeed _is_ a house [...] I found none and said so. > Err, you can see it yourself, at least the roof... if you look on Google maps, click Map view, type in the address. It will show you the house section numbered 5A slightly to the left and down from where Google puts the marker, put your finger on the section, now click Satellite view, it will show you the house. It's a back section with a grey roof. Got to love the eye in the sky. > ..respect for who? > Well I think it's just rude to post such personal details on public lists, sure it's available elsewhere I guess (whois) but still, I don't personally feel comfortable in posting such information. > ..I certainly missed _your_ half of this conversation, > _did_ you try post this to FG-dev or > Eh? You've lost me here. I posted only to FG-dev. - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Another person selling FlightGear under dubious pretenses
On Fri, 21 Nov 2008 09:16:25 -0500, Matthew wrote in message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Okay. > > So, let's look at what actions should be taken. Given that I am not a > copyright owner, I have nothing at stake beyond community membership. ..me neither. ;o) ..but the copyright owners here and at 7Zip, Audacity, Wesnoth etc down http://www.idbproductions.com/Products/ , might want to know, so I Bcc them, and cc to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Maybe talk PJ into doing an article on http://groklaw.net/ ? > Regarding the images. We now sufficient information for individuals to > assert their copyright on the individual using them. ..I do not understand what you are trying to say here. Try again, you must have left something important out of your statement above. ..if you meant to say: "Regarding the images. We now have sufficient information for individuals to assert their copyright on the individual using them.", then good, I would agree. > Regarding flightgear, I am still trying to connect the dots on how we > can be sure there is a GPL violation. ..aye, first I'd like to carry on find and verify such verifiable facts. > Arnt, > > Can you describe which parts of the GPL you believe he is violating? ..not yet, first I look for facts. Facts we need to know, includes under which license each picture and each documentation document has been published. I guess the guys behind 7Zip, Audacity, Wesnoth etc down http://www.idbproductions.com/Products/ , would want the same. > Since this list is a public record, I would like to stay away from > potentially libelous claims, and stick to verifiable facts. Also, > what would your expectation be for any action. ..first find the facts, then confront these people with the facts and the license that walks away on violations and leaves them at the mercy of the teeth of the law. ;o) > There is no morality or advertising clause in the GPL, and almost all > of the rights conferred by the GPL are really oriented towards > distribution - ..correct. > of which no one has been a recipient. ..this _may_ be a possible verifiable fact, but you state it _as_ a fact, do you in fact _know_ it to be a fact? ..these websites has lots of statements from what I understand is alleged satisfied recipients, suggesting both GPL violations and fraudulent marketing. > Realistically, if he ships the source on CD, I don't think there is > any wrongdoing from flightgear's perspective. ..realistically, whenever I see such massive "rebranding" activity on graphic etc binaries, I expect to find some. ;o) > Regards... Matthew > > > Regards... Matthew > > > > > On 11/21/08, James Sleeman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Arnt Karlsen wrote: > >> ..ok, this far I have found a fake physical address, suggesting my > >> suspicion is confirmable. So I cc. > >> > >> ..unless New Zealand allow a fake address, a fake company, a fake > >> name etc, these are illegally registred web sites. > >> > > Are we taking about whois data Arnt? The whois data on the domains > > seems to be sensible to me, infact, it's about 3 KM as the Cub flys > > from my own house in Hoon Hay. He is very nearby to a very ..excellent, then you would be in an excellent position to verify there indeed _is_ a house at 5A Jasmine Place? Pictures? I found none and said so. > > historic airfield which is sadly going to close in a couple of > > months forever to be made into housing by the landowners :-( ..you could try FUD them away from your airfield? Finance crisis and all? "Wait and see!"? ;o) > > I have noticed this rebranding of FG for sale on the dominant > > auction site here in NZ for quite a long time, but never really > > felt concerned by it - ..you should have, the bad guys try to undermine the GPL and copyright e.g. thru software piracy and by establishing "an established practice" to form case law. This is a long term strategy and they have deep pocket and when exposed, they try to intimidate their way out of it with e.g. subtle litigation FUD. ;o) Check http://groklaw.net/ ;o) > > http://www.trademe.co.nz/Gaming/PC-games/Simulation/auction-188794636.htm > > > > Now I look, the trademe username is "casey-a" from Christchurch, the > > whois data for the domain indicates this is Mr Andrew Casey of that > > address. Phone number etc is in the whois. I won't post it here > > for respect. ..respect for who? ..assuming you respect the copyright holders of FlightGear, 7Zip, Audacity, Wesnoth etc down www.idbproductions.com/Products/ way, then maybe you could mail it so we can help check it all out? > > The whois on flight-aviator.com and idbproductions.com match up. > > The whois on idb.net.nz doesn't quite, but could just be an work > > address, it's not very far away. ..sounds reasonable, it's 7.1 km – about 18 mins according to: http://maps.google.com/maps/empw?url=http:%2F%2Fmaps.google.com%2Fmaps%3Fdaddr%3D38%2BRaxworthy%2BSt,%2BIlam,%2BCanterbury%2B8041,%2BNew%2BZealand%26geocode%
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Another person selling FlightGear under dubious pretenses
James Sleeman wrote: > I have now sent an email to Mr Casey inviting him to present his side > of the story here on the developers list and offering my personal > Mr Casey has already quickly replied to my email and indicates he will take a look at this thread. He indicates he is following the GPL and sounds happy to confirm this with the developers, so hopefully he will contribute to the discussion soon and any issues arising can be amicably resolved. - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Another person selling FlightGear under dubious pretenses
James Sleeman wrote: > Matthew Tippett wrote: > >> So, let's look at what actions should be taken. Given that I am not a >> copyright owner, I have nothing at stake beyond community membership. >> > I think everybody is jumping to conclusions without any actual > information, we need to first hear from Mr Casey. > While I know this is open source , I haven't spend years of late nights working at this so others who apparently lack any ambition can try to make a profit off it.If this person had been selling it as FlightGear , I wouldn't give it a second thought.I would then feel that he was packaging this as a convenience , and rightly asking for something in return for his troubles.But renaming it just makes me feel like he's trying to hide the fact that its a free open source project , and so definitely doesn't get my sympathy . Cheers > I have now sent an email to Mr Casey inviting him to present his side of > the story here on the developers list and offering my personal > assistance in helping him assure the developers that he is compliant > with the GPL (yes I'm giving the benefit of the doubt) as an independant > user who just happens to live nearby to him. > > > > > - > This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge > Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes > Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world > http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ > ___ > Flightgear-devel mailing list > Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel > > - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Another person selling FlightGear under dubious pretenses
Matthew Tippett wrote: > So, let's look at what actions should be taken. Given that I am not a > copyright owner, I have nothing at stake beyond community membership. I think everybody is jumping to conclusions without any actual information, we need to first hear from Mr Casey. I have now sent an email to Mr Casey inviting him to present his side of the story here on the developers list and offering my personal assistance in helping him assure the developers that he is compliant with the GPL (yes I'm giving the benefit of the doubt) as an independant user who just happens to live nearby to him. - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Another person selling FlightGear under dubious pretenses
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 If we add a little lable / watermark on all screenshots on the homepage with "http://www.flightgear.org/"; (or one of our logos...) it makes reusing them much more difficult... Perhaps adding a copyright statement as well would be even better. This doesn't prevent any copying - but it might stop any "accidental reuse"... Stuart Buchanan schrieb: > --- On Thu, 20/11/08, Curtis Olson wrote: >> Someone pointed out this site to me. It probably falls into >> the category of just barely ok, but I thought I'd post the link >> here to get some more eyes on it. >> >> http://flight-aviator.com/ >> > > One way to discourage this sort of thing would be to include > "www.flightgear.org" prominently in the startup screens, in the > same way that we include "initializing sub-systems", > "initializing scenery". > > Possibly with an added message along the lines of "Welcome to FlightGear, the > free open source flight simulator." > > That would force the rip-off merchants to at least compile the code, > rather than simply replacing some .pngs! > > -Stuart > > > > > - > This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge > Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes > Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world > http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ > ___ > Flightgear-devel mailing list > Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEAREIAAYFAkknR8cACgkQoWM1JLkHou2GtwCfU05asnlTCReczaSNAnUtRJHW uRsAnjNeZBWnI6kzGOoaqlDkMbc41Anm =Yrun -END PGP SIGNATURE- - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Proposed fix for an obscure tile loading/caching bug
On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 11:24 AM, James A. Treacy wrote: > It is not clear to me that age is the best metric to use in all cases. > The tile that is the farthest from your current location would also be > a good candidate for removal. > > Since the current algorithm works in most cases, a less intrusive > solution than messsing with how/when timestamps are applied would be > to, when the oldest tile has a timestamp of zero, remove the tile that > is farthest from your current position. My original implementation did use a distance based metric, but somewhere along the way another developer did a lot of work on this section of the code and the cache flush test was switched to a last time in the vicinity of the viewer metric. Then in the conversion to OSG, this was changed to the last time the tile actually passed the cull test to be drawn and tiles that were never drawn always had a default time stamp of 0. I'd be ok with moving back towards a distance based metric in the future ... especially if OSG provides a convenient way to do the computation, but the current small fix of time stamping tiles correctly when they are first created regardless of whether or not they are actually drawn on screen removes the immediate danger and is logically sensible in the context of a time based cache flush metric. Curt. -- Curtis Olson: http://baron.flightgear.org/~curt/ - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Proposed fix for an obscure tile loading/caching bug
It is not clear to me that age is the best metric to use in all cases. The tile that is the farthest from your current location would also be a good candidate for removal. Since the current algorithm works in most cases, a less intrusive solution than messsing with how/when timestamps are applied would be to, when the oldest tile has a timestamp of zero, remove the tile that is farthest from your current position. -- James Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED] - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] recent model update and FG before Boost
On vendredi 21 novembre 2008, Tim Moore wrote: > gerard robin wrote: > > Hello Tim > > There won't be any problem, but i heard that a more recent not stable OSG > > version was necessary. > > If it is the case that is the problem. > > I've just checked in simgear and flightgear changes that should remove the > dependency on OSG 2.7.3. Having said that... > > > Until we don't have the next OSG stable version. > > Do i have to freeze every model development ? > > I don't think OSG 2.7.3, 2.7.5, or OSG SVN for that matter are unstable in > terms of introducing new bugs in ordinary usage.. There is a lot of > development activity in OSG, and sometimes interfaces change. Are you > unhappy because you need to build OSG from source? The answer is yes, i explained why before, no time to chase after each new SVN OSG version. Officials stable version are enough :) > > There are often bug fixes and features in OSG SVN that make a real > difference to fg; sometimes they are even submitted by members of the > FlightGear community. I presume that you run FlightGear CVS because you > want all the latest goodies; well, so do I :) > > A valid point would be that we are preparing for a release, and a release > should depend on the last released OSG. But there have been tens of > thousands of lines of changes in OSG since 2.6. I think it is more > realistic to time our release with that of OSG 2.8. > > > Or is it really possible to avoid Boost, (if we want) during that > > transition period ? > > Does the "--with-boost" means that we could build with or without boost ? > > No, it's just for specifying a path to the Boost installation. If you > supply --with-boost=no, your compilation will fail. > > Tim > Thanks, i will try with OSG 2.6 and the official Boost which should be there ( i mean package, not source) in the distributions , Fedora, Suze, Debian installed on several equipments. Cheers -- Gérard http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/ J'ai décidé d'être heureux parce que c'est bon pour la santé. Voltaire - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Proposed fix for an obscure tile loading/caching bug
I was working with a simulator that uses FlightGear's network master/slave capability to drive 4 additional displays and discovered an obscure tile loading / tile caching / cache management bug. I believe I have tracked down exactly what and why this is happening, and I have a proposed fix that I'd like to post to the list for potential review and improvement before I commit the patch. The problem I found was that when relocating to a nearby location, depending on the specific sequence of locations and view orientations, sometimes tiles would not be loaded, leaving gaping blank holes in the terrain. This could be especially problematic on the main machine because the flight dynamics cannot fully initialize until the local tile is loaded (and sometimes this bug would cause the local/current tile to be discarded and never reloaded.) We have a cache of loaded tiles that is larger than what you can see ... so if you fly around and then come back, you don't necessarily have to reload scenery that you previously visited if it's still in your cache. It's kind of like your browser cache ... you don't have to reload an image if it's already in the cache if you come back to a page you just visited. When you go to a new area, the new tiles are scheduled to be loaded and then the system goes off and loads them in a background thread. Once the cache fills up, the oldest tiles are removed. So if you start at some airport, then go to some other distant airport, then to yet another airport ... and in the process the tile cache fills up while loading the newest tiles, then the oldest tiles from the original airport would get removed first. The age of tiles is deteremined by a timestamp value that is saved for each tile. However, the tile timestamp is only updated with the tiles are actually in view and drawn (this is a neat capability but it is part of what bit me) ... so tiles from the original location that are behind your view and never seen will never have their time stamp updated and it will remain as zero. Now, when you go to the next location and again new tiles are scheduled and loaded, the new tiles behind you at the new location are also never actually seen or drawn and their time stamp is never actually updated and remains as zero. (Assuming you never turn to look at them.) Now, here is where this was biting me ... Let's say I relocate to a new location that is near the previous location (with the tile cache full), and the new location just happens to be over a previously loaded tile that was previously behind the viewer. This is a tile that is in the cache, but has never been looked at, so it's timestamp is still 0. The new location needs to be far enough away that it triggers the scheduled load of several new tiles. When the new tiles are scheduled and the cache is already full, something has to be removed. The system finds the tile with the oldest timestamp and removes that. However, all tiles that haven't been seen or drawn yet have a timestamp of 0 and they all tie, and this could easily include the tile that is right underneath your new location. So depending on the physical order of tiles in the cache which is random for all practical purpose, the current tile could get removed to make room for new tiles and now we have a huge problem. The FDM can't intialize because no tile is underneath it. And that tile will never get loaded because it was there when the new tiles were scheduled for loading, but was then immediately removed to make room for those new tiles. The code is at an impass and can't proceed. The fix I am proposing gives a current time stamp to each tile when it is loaded (instead of zero.) This should resolve the "tie" among tiles that have never been looked at or drawn. The oldest tiles will indeed be removed. This attached patch fixes the problem I am seeing, but I don't know if it's the best approach from a C++ standpoint. The timestamp is derived from an OSG concept of time which doesn't appear to be easily extractable if you don't have a chunk of the scene graph handy (which is the case when you create a new tile and haven't loaded anything into it yet.) So I created a static member for the cull call back class. Each time the timestamp is updated for any tile, this variable is also updated. I create a dummy instance of the class in static global space of the TileEntry.cxx file to ensure that this static class member is originally initialized to something valid (0.0). That way the first tile loaded won't inadvertently get a random time value if the compiler doesn't initialize the memory space to 0 for us. Anyway, that's probably an overly complex explanation of a very obscure and rare tile cache bug, but before I commit a fix to a portion of code I didn't write, I want to let others have the opportunity to review and comment (and negative comments will hopefully be attached to a proposed better fix.) :-) Thanks, Curt. -- Curtis Olson: http://baron.flightge
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Another person selling FlightGear under dubious pretenses
On Friday 21 November 2008 14:16:25 Matthew Tippett wrote: > Regarding the images. We now sufficient information for individuals to > assert their copyright on the individual using them. Just for the record, I did that earlier today for my own screenshots used. I gave permission to use my images only if they were clearly labelled with me as copyright holder, and included the flightgear URL. I made it very clear that my concern was not with the selling (which we all agreed ages ago is perfectly legal), but with the fact that the FG community is (in theory at least) otherwise missing out on potential contributers. In practice I very much doubt whether there's any significant volume of sales, but it's a matter of principle and the work of only a few seconds to request correct attribution. I think it would be good to ensure that the FG gallery (certainly for the next release) carried a clear permissable usage statement. Cheers, AJ - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] recent model update and FG before Boost
gerard robin wrote: > On vendredi 21 novembre 2008, Tim Moore wrote: >> Csaba Halász wrote: >>> On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 1:00 PM, gerard robin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> ... >> Could not find at least one of the following objects for animation: I guess that is due to the recent update of FG CVS with Nasal ? which unfortunately include Boost ( and not useful for the moment ) >>> No, this is due to Melchior's change in props.nas, see his mail >>> earlier. I believe that is entirely in the data tree, no c++ changes. >>> How can i built FG with these recent update and without Boost ? >> You don't, you build it with Boost. >> 1) cvs update >> 2) run autogen.sh >> 3) configure. If configure doesn't find a recent enough version of Boost, >> 3a) download a recent version from Boost.org, build and install it >> 3b) run configure again >> 4) build flightgear >> >> If there is really a problem here, let us know. >> Tim > Hello Tim > There won't be any problem, but i heard that a more recent not stable OSG > version was necessary. > If it is the case that is the problem. > I've just checked in simgear and flightgear changes that should remove the dependency on OSG 2.7.3. Having said that... > Until we don't have the next OSG stable version. > Do i have to freeze every model development ? I don't think OSG 2.7.3, 2.7.5, or OSG SVN for that matter are unstable in terms of introducing new bugs in ordinary usage.. There is a lot of development activity in OSG, and sometimes interfaces change. Are you unhappy because you need to build OSG from source? There are often bug fixes and features in OSG SVN that make a real difference to fg; sometimes they are even submitted by members of the FlightGear community. I presume that you run FlightGear CVS because you want all the latest goodies; well, so do I :) A valid point would be that we are preparing for a release, and a release should depend on the last released OSG. But there have been tens of thousands of lines of changes in OSG since 2.6. I think it is more realistic to time our release with that of OSG 2.8. > > Or is it really possible to avoid Boost, (if we want) during that transition > period ? > Does the "--with-boost" means that we could build with or without boost ? No, it's just for specifying a path to the Boost installation. If you supply --with-boost=no, your compilation will fail. Tim - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] heads up: Boost dependency
"Csaba Hal??sz" wrote:
> Okay, I know I am kind of late with this, but I just found out that
> debian stable comes with 1.33.
I just tried out wether this would work with the Debian-shipped Boost
header if we simply corrupt the version number check, but apparently
Tim's rework of the OSG viewer interface depends on a file
('foreach.hpp') which had been introduced after 1.33.1.
Cheers,
Martin.
--
Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are !
--
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Another person selling FlightGear under dubious pretenses
Okay. So, let's look at what actions should be taken. Given that I am not a copyright owner, I have nothing at stake beyond community membership. Regarding the images. We now sufficient information for individuals to assert their copyright on the individual using them. Regarding flightgear, I am still trying to connect the dots on how we can be sure there is a GPL violation. Arnt, Can you describe which parts of the GPL you believe he is violating? Since this list is a public record, I would like to stay away from potentially libelous claims, and stick to verifiable facts. Also, what would your expectation be for any action. There is no morality or advertising clause in the GPL, and almost all of the rights conferred by the GPL are really oriented towards distribution - of which no one has been a recipient. Realistically, if he ships the source on CD, I don't think there is any wrongdoing from flightgear's perspective. Regards... Matthew Regards... Matthew On 11/21/08, James Sleeman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Arnt Karlsen wrote: >> ..ok, this far I have found a fake physical address, suggesting my >> suspicion is confirmable. So I cc. >> >> ..unless New Zealand allow a fake address, a fake company, a fake >> name etc, these are illegally registred web sites. >> > Are we taking about whois data Arnt? The whois data on the domains > seems to be sensible to me, infact, it's about 3 KM as the Cub flys from > my own house in Hoon Hay. He is very nearby to a very historic > airfield which is sadly going to close in a couple of months forever to > be made into housing by the landowners :-( > > I have noticed this rebranding of FG for sale on the dominant auction > site here in NZ for quite a long time, but never really felt concerned > by it - > http://www.trademe.co.nz/Gaming/PC-games/Simulation/auction-188794636.htm > > Now I look, the trademe username is "casey-a" from Christchurch, the > whois data for the domain indicates this is Mr Andrew Casey of that > address. Phone number etc is in the whois. I won't post it here for > respect. > > The whois on flight-aviator.com and idbproductions.com match up. The > whois on idb.net.nz doesn't quite, but could just be an work address, > it's not very far away. > > The company name in the whois "KcKpers Ltd" is a legitimate company, and > the Director's address agrees with the whois on the .com domains, you > can search the company at www.companies.govt.nz . Mr Casey is the only > shareholder (nothing sinister in that, common practice). The company > was incorporated in 2002, and Mr Casey was he who did that incorporation > and had the same Wigram address at the time. > > I don't see any fakeness Arnt? Or have I missed half of a conversation > somewhere? > > --- > James Sleeman > > > - > This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge > Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great > prizes > Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world > http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ > ___ > Flightgear-devel mailing list > Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel > -- Sent from my mobile device - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] recent model update and FG before Boost
- "gerard robin" a écrit : > There won't be any problem, but i heard that a more recent not stable > OSG > version was necessary. > If it is the case that is the problem. > > Until we don't have the next OSG stable version. > Do i have to freeze every model development ? > > Or is it really possible to avoid Boost, (if we want) during that > transition > period ? > Does the "--with-boost" means that we could build with or without > boost ? There is no direct connection between the fact that Boost is now required, and the same code use OSG feature only available in OSG >= 2.7.3 . What about building OSG v2.7.5 ? -Fred -- Frédéric Bouvier http://my.fotolia.com/frfoto/ Photo gallery - album photo http://fgsd.sourceforge.net/ FlightGear Scenery Designer - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] recent model update and FG before Boost
On vendredi 21 novembre 2008, Tim Moore wrote: > Csaba Halász wrote: > > On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 1:00 PM, gerard robin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > ... > > >> Could not find at least one of the following objects for animation: > >> > >> I guess that is due to the recent update of FG CVS with Nasal ? which > >> unfortunately include Boost ( and not useful for the moment ) > > > > No, this is due to Melchior's change in props.nas, see his mail > > earlier. I believe that is entirely in the data tree, no c++ changes. > > > >> How can i built FG with these recent update and without Boost ? > > You don't, you build it with Boost. > 1) cvs update > 2) run autogen.sh > 3) configure. If configure doesn't find a recent enough version of Boost, > 3a) download a recent version from Boost.org, build and install it > 3b) run configure again > 4) build flightgear > > If there is really a problem here, let us know. > Tim Hello Tim There won't be any problem, but i heard that a more recent not stable OSG version was necessary. If it is the case that is the problem. Until we don't have the next OSG stable version. Do i have to freeze every model development ? Or is it really possible to avoid Boost, (if we want) during that transition period ? Does the "--with-boost" means that we could build with or without boost ? Thanks -- Gérard http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/ J'ai décidé d'être heureux parce que c'est bon pour la santé. Voltaire - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] recent model update and FG before Boost
Csaba Halász wrote: > On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 1:00 PM, gerard robin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: ... >> Could not find at least one of the following objects for animation: >> >> I guess that is due to the recent update of FG CVS with Nasal ? which >> unfortunately include Boost ( and not useful for the moment ) > > No, this is due to Melchior's change in props.nas, see his mail > earlier. I believe that is entirely in the data tree, no c++ changes. > >> How can i built FG with these recent update and without Boost ? > You don't, you build it with Boost. 1) cvs update 2) run autogen.sh 3) configure. If configure doesn't find a recent enough version of Boost, 3a) download a recent version from Boost.org, build and install it 3b) run configure again 4) build flightgear If there is really a problem here, let us know. Tim - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] heads up: Boost dependency
Tatsuhiro Nishioka wrote: > Hi, > >>From Mac OS side, there seems no problem in using headers of any > version of Boost as long as FlightGear works fine. I'll just grab it > and build FG with boost headers. No difficulties. However, if we're > going to use boost libraries before the next official release, I need > to make sure the binary works on at least some Macs, including > ppc/intel and OS X 10.4/10.5. Probably it needs some weeks to collect > feedbacks. I've just checked a change to configure.ac that checks for a minimum version of Boost, looks for it in all the right places, properly supports --with-boost, etc. I know that you don't use configure for the Mac builds, but this should ease the vast majority of problems for Linux users. > > So I want to hear Tim's (and others') opinion about: > (1) what are the pros in using Boost especially in FlightGear. > If that doesn't give us any improvement in quality (like > maintainability, testability, usability, response, performance or > whatever you name it) or functionality in a clear way, we can live > without it, at least until the next official release (or until the > next release branch is made). > I've stated this before, a couple of different times. It provides many advantages in terms of convenience and cross-platform compatibility. In terms of maintainability and testing, I consider it a great advantage to leave those things to a much larger community where possible. The use of Boost in the currently checked-in sources is completely gratuitous, but in the future it will not be. I think it's a reasonable first step, and is certainly shaking out problems :) > (2) Are we going to use boost libraries in the near future? > Hope not until the next release. Certainly not until after the release. If a library (as opposed to a header file) is useful, we should use it and solve the build issues. > > Again, I am not against using Boost at all. I just want to know how it > effects or affects FlightGear from developers' and users' viewpoints. > If it is determined to use boost, I'll do my best to keep up with > these things. If you look in the mail archives, I have stated before why I think it's a good idea. > > Plus, I ain't retrospective. PLIB era also got me a lot of troubles. > Do you remember that 0.9.10 on Mac OS X released several months after > Windows/Linux had released? 0.9.10 often crashed if ATC is on. Now I > can make FlightGear/OSG with less problem, and it works with less > crashes. So I don't think FlightGear/CVS-HEAD + OSG is not that > stable. I admit that we are still catching up with PLIB in some > functions like shadows and FG + OSG requires longer build time, it > often crash and I got some crash reports, but so what? OSG + FG give > us much more functions like multiple views, particles, and lots more. > > Best, > > Tat Tim - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] recent model update and FG before Boost
On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 1:00 PM, gerard robin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Nasal runtime error: No such member: initNode > at /usr/local/share/FlightGear/data/Aircraft/f-14b/Nasal/fuel-system.nas, > line 147 > called > from: /usr/local/share/FlightGear/data/Aircraft/f-14b/Nasal/instruments.nas, > line 283 > called from: /usr/local/share/FlightGear/data/Nasal/globals.nas, line 76 > Could not find at least one of the following objects for animation: > > I guess that is due to the recent update of FG CVS with Nasal ? which > unfortunately include Boost ( and not useful for the moment ) No, this is due to Melchior's change in props.nas, see his mail earlier. I believe that is entirely in the data tree, no c++ changes. > How can i built FG with these recent update and without Boost ? For now, it is pretty easy: if you aren't using the "new" camera capability, you can just remove the single place where it is currently used or replace it with old-style c++. > BTW: If i had to vote for the come back to FG without Boost , for the moment i > would say Yes. We'll see how much we win by boost when more of Tim's code is checked in. -- Csaba/Jester - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] recent model update and FG before Boost
Hello, I would like to get profit of the last models updated. now i get for instance with F-14 the following message: Nasal runtime error: No such member: initNode at /usr/local/share/FlightGear/data/Aircraft/f-14b/Nasal/fuel-system.nas, line 147 called from: /usr/local/share/FlightGear/data/Aircraft/f-14b/Nasal/instruments.nas, line 283 called from: /usr/local/share/FlightGear/data/Nasal/globals.nas, line 76 Could not find at least one of the following objects for animation: I guess that is due to the recent update of FG CVS with Nasal ? which unfortunately include Boost ( and not useful for the moment ) What about other, usefull update which won't use Boost, Clouds for instance. How can i built FG with these recent update and without Boost ? My target is ONLY to continue working a develop model with the last CVS and not with an old Version, frozen just before the coming of Boost. Thanks for the answer. BTW: If i had to vote for the come back to FG without Boost , for the moment i would say Yes. -- Gérard http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/ J'ai décidé d'être heureux parce que c'est bon pour la santé. Voltaire - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] model manager: fluttering problem fixed
Am Mittwoch, den 19.11.2008, 14:40 +0100 schrieb Melchior FRANZ: > The model manager allows to add models at runtime. Most often > they are static (-> geo.put_model()), but one can also > register them with adjustable position/orientation properties. > > If the object was moving (independently or placed relative > to a moving aircraft), then one used to run into a nasty > fluttering problem: the model didn't keep a constant distance > to the aircraft, but -- depending on the speed -- fell behind, > jumped forward again, etc. > > This should now be fixed. It's possible to attach objects > to an aircraft or to put an independently moving object > (e.g. tanker) in the scenery without any flickering/fluttering. > It's possible to put a jeep in the C130, let an animated > (female) flight attendent bring coffee to the cockpit etc. :-) > Just had a chance to rebuild and it works perfect with the walker. Many Thanks for your effort. Looking forward to implement all of the above ... :-) > See the attached example -- put it in ~/.fgfs/Nasal/. It > will place a cow in front of the aircraft. > > m. > - > This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge > Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes > Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world > http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ > ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list > Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Detlef Faber http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Another person selling FlightGear under dubious pretenses
Arnt Karlsen wrote: > ..ok, this far I have found a fake physical address, suggesting my > suspicion is confirmable. So I cc. > > ..unless New Zealand allow a fake address, a fake company, a fake > name etc, these are illegally registred web sites. > Are we taking about whois data Arnt? The whois data on the domains seems to be sensible to me, infact, it's about 3 KM as the Cub flys from my own house in Hoon Hay. He is very nearby to a very historic airfield which is sadly going to close in a couple of months forever to be made into housing by the landowners :-( I have noticed this rebranding of FG for sale on the dominant auction site here in NZ for quite a long time, but never really felt concerned by it - http://www.trademe.co.nz/Gaming/PC-games/Simulation/auction-188794636.htm Now I look, the trademe username is "casey-a" from Christchurch, the whois data for the domain indicates this is Mr Andrew Casey of that address. Phone number etc is in the whois. I won't post it here for respect. The whois on flight-aviator.com and idbproductions.com match up. The whois on idb.net.nz doesn't quite, but could just be an work address, it's not very far away. The company name in the whois "KcKpers Ltd" is a legitimate company, and the Director's address agrees with the whois on the .com domains, you can search the company at www.companies.govt.nz . Mr Casey is the only shareholder (nothing sinister in that, common practice). The company was incorporated in 2002, and Mr Casey was he who did that incorporation and had the same Wigram address at the time. I don't see any fakeness Arnt? Or have I missed half of a conversation somewhere? --- James Sleeman - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Another person selling FlightGear under dubious pretenses
On Fri, 21 Nov 2008 02:25:22 -0500, Matthew wrote in message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Comments within. (I am personally uncomfortable including the GPL > violations people until we have a clear direction from the leadership > of the flightgear project as to the direction the project would like > to go). ..ok, this far I have found a fake physical address, suggesting my suspicion is confirmable. So I cc. ..unless New Zealand allow a fake address, a fake company, a fake name etc, these are illegally registred web sites. > On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 1:49 AM, Arnt Karlsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Hi, > > ... > > > > > Still, the question is if this company is violating the GPL. We > > > have no proof of that. > > > > ..I'm checking my wee mirrors to find out. ;o) > > > The GPL can only be violated when they distribute the software. Their > website doesn't entail them distributing. Action can only be taken > if there is a clear violation (ie: they distribute a flightgear > derived product without an offer of distributing source. Who knows, > they may include the source in the DVD or CD that they ship. > > I personally don't want to charge forward and claim a violation when > nothing has been distributed. ..well maybe you don't have to ;o), there's 7Zip, Wesnoth etc at http://www.idbproductions.com/Products/ all rather strongly suggesting at least a conspiracy to commit software piracy, rather than lawful distribution under the GPL. So, I am not worried about defending my suspicions in courts. ;o) > > (The gpl-violations.org guys go after people who > > are not honoring the release of source for both distributed and > > derived works - typically in embedded systems. Usually they settle > > when the company honors the GPL and provides source or stops > > distributing the offending product.) > > ..aye, this means they have valuable experience > > and can guide us. ;o) > > > > > At this stage it appears that they are simply selling a binary > > > distribution of a set of OSS applications. > > > > ..then, in good faith, they shouldn't mind saying so. > > My opinion now is, these people are common criminals, > > or a tSCOG-style Microsoft proxy team. > > http://gpl-violations.org/faq/violation-faq.html > > http://gpl-violations.org/faq/legal-faq.html > > http://gpl-violations.org/faq/sourcecode-faq.html > > http://gpl-violations.org/faq/vendor-faq.html > > > > But they do say that - http://flight-aviator.com/ > > === > [image: flight]Based on the award winning Flight Gear project > > [image: flight]All from the thriving Open Source Community, this sim > is forever changing > > === ..but _no_ mention of _which_ license. > > > As mentioned before, ethics or questionable business practices > > > aside, we need to focus on what they are actually violating. > > > Even the wikipedia screen shots are licensed under the GPL can be > > > re-used freely. > > > > ..aye. Removals of "FlightGear.org" and "GPL" etc around > > these screen shots, would prove a few things though. ;o) > > > I don't see what you are saying. The screenshots don't seem to be > trimmed - beyond a possible crop here or there. ..we shall see. ;o) > http://www.flight-aviator.com/images/fps/multiplayer-map.jpg as well > as http://www.flight-aviator.com/images/getstart11x.jpg don't seem to > be hiding it from being (or being derived from flightgear). The lack > of attribution is not quite nice, but is a common mistake. .._active_ removal takes it that one step further. ;o) > Again, if the flightgear leadership, or the creators (and hence > copyright owners) of the images have particular concern then that can > put forward when a direction is chosen. ..this is not just us (FG). > > ..and keep in mind, top posting is not quite comme-il-feaut > > at [EMAIL PROTECTED] ;o) > > > I understand, but the google mobile client provides no options to > inline quote or bottom quote. (I would actually expect that from a > legal perspective a top-posted email thread is far more valuable than > a inline posted... But that is a different discussion. :) ..in those cases we have real mail clients that can handle mail list threads in a manner convenient for litigation discovery. ;o) > Please note that I am not saying take no action, I am just saying > take a few days to gather what each copyright owner who is impacted > wants and ensure a plan is prepared before taking action. > > Remember, the emotive aspect - although it is real and affects people > personally - should not be the prime driver for individuals. The > legal framework that each person has implicitly or explicitly has > agreed to is what should be driven. (I had a long discussion with > some people from Creative Commons that people should also be made > aware of what they are giving up. If you CC-Share Alike an image, > and then see that image being used to promote something you > personally find distasteful - have given up your right to control > wha
