Re: [Flightgear-devel] Another person selling FlightGear under dubious pretenses
Hi, * KcKpers Ltd -- Saturday 22 November 2008: [source code] > (to clear up this matter it is supplied on the CD the purchaser > receives) Good. > (basically re-branding this which I understand is also within > the terms of the GPL) Agreed. That's allowed. And unethical, as you let your "customers" pay for our free work and let them find out later. You mention that "your" offer is based on FlightGear. But it's not only "based" on it. This *is* FlightGear with some camouflage. You are deceiving your customers. Most of them would probably not have paid $27 for something that they can get for free from us. > No I am not a lawyer or pretend to be one and if there is > something that I have done incorrectly, Selling a rebranded version is OK. Using our screenshots is a clear copyright violation! We only (used to) allow that for reviews and announcements of FlightGear. You don't have permission. (At least you don't have permission for any of my screenshots! Not that you are using any ATM.) > Once this goes live I also wanted to contribute some funds > to the project developers, [...] This would make us profiteers of your deception, and I don't think we want to be part of that. But that's Curt's decision. People should know that FlightGear is free, and if they want to support the project with money, then they should buy from here: http://www.flightgear.org/cdrom/ Ripping someone off and donating parts of that is only OK if you are Robin Hood. Thanks for your reply! m. - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Another person selling FlightGe ar under dubious pretenses
On samedi 22 novembre 2008, Melchior FRANZ wrote: > Hi, > > * KcKpers Ltd -- Saturday 22 November 2008: > [source code] > > > (to clear up this matter it is supplied on the CD the purchaser > > receives) > > Good. > > > (basically re-branding this which I understand is also within > > the terms of the GPL) > > Agreed. That's allowed. And unethical, as you let your "customers" > pay for our free work and let them find out later. You mention > that "your" offer is based on FlightGear. But it's not only > "based" on it. This *is* FlightGear with some camouflage. You are > deceiving your customers. Most of them would probably not have > paid $27 for something that they can get for free from us. > > > No I am not a lawyer or pretend to be one and if there is > > something that I have done incorrectly, > > Selling a rebranded version is OK. Using our screenshots is a > clear copyright violation! We only (used to) allow that for > reviews and announcements of FlightGear. You don't have > permission. (At least you don't have permission for any of > my screenshots! Not that you are using any ATM.) I agree with Melchior, regarding the snapshots, i have made it for http://flightgear.org/index.shtml ONLY, not for you. I can notice that on your first main page www.flight-aviator.com there is 5 snapshots which are from me. > > > Once this goes live I also wanted to contribute some funds > > to the project developers, [...] > > This would make us profiteers of your deception, and I don't > think we want to be part of that. But that's Curt's decision. > People should know that FlightGear is free, and if they want > to support the project with money, then they should buy from > here: http://www.flightgear.org/cdrom/ Ripping someone off > and donating parts of that is only OK if you are Robin Hood. > > Thanks for your reply! > > m. > Thanks for your reply Regards -- Gérard http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/ J'ai décidé d'être heureux parce que c'est bon pour la santé. Voltaire - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Another person selling FlightGear under dubious pretenses
Hi all, Thanks for the comments so far. I have been looking over the use of images. I will remove any images if you notify me that you wish them to be removed. However I do have something I wish to find out for future reference. If flight gear is under a GPL license, does this not mean work created with the use of flight gear is also under this license if it an output of this software If say a screenshot is taken of this software, does this also not mean this screenshot is licensed automatically under the GPL as it displays in graphical form, the code that was used to create this software. If this is the case then can they not be freely used and not copyrighted individually by the owner. If this is the case, people saying that these images they created are copyrighted goes against and breaches the GPL License I am unsure if this is the case, but it makes sense perhaps. Could someone please clarify this if they know the ruling? Regards Andrew - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Another person selling FlightGear under dubious pretenses
* KcKpers Ltd -- Saturday 22 November 2008: > I will remove any images if you notify me that you wish them > to be removed. No! Remove all of them, unless someone gives you explicit permission to use them! You don't have any permission so far! You are violating our rights and international copyright law! Copyright doesn't work on an "opt-out" basis! > If flight gear is under a GPL license, does this not mean > work created with the use of flight gear is also under this > license if it an output of this software No! My editor is GPL, but what I write with it is not! m. - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Another person selling FlightGear under dubious pretenses
KcKpers Ltd wrote: > > If flight gear is under a GPL license, does this not mean work created > with the use of flight gear is also under this license if it an output > of this software > In the words of the GPL (v2) "the output from the Program is covered only if its contents constitute a work based on the Program (independent of having been made by running the Program)". It is a little grey I'll give you, but no, it would be common understanding that a screenshot would not fall under that definition, ergo, it's not GPL. Same as a spreadsheet made in a GPL spreadsheet program wouldn't be GPL. This is particularly the case for FlightGear as the screenshot is produced by FlightGear itself. - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Another person selling FlightGear under dubious pretenses
KcKpers Ltd wrote: > Hi all, > > > > Thanks for the comments so far. > > > > I have been looking over the use of images. > > > > I will remove any images if you notify me that you wish them to be removed. > > > > However I do have something I wish to find out for future reference. > > > > If flight gear is under a GPL license, does this not mean work created > with the use of flight gear is also under this license if it an output > of this software > > > > If say a screenshot is taken of this software, does this also not mean > this screenshot is licensed automatically under the GPL as it displays > in graphical form, the code that was used to create this software. > > > > If this is the case then can they not be freely used and not copyrighted > individually by the owner. > > > > If this is the case, people saying that these images they created are > copyrighted goes against and breaches the GPL License > > > > I am unsure if this is the case, but it makes sense perhaps. If you use mysql to store your customer database does this make your customer list GPL? If you use gnumeric to prepare your accounts can we all have a copy? Jon - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Another person selling FlightGear under dubious pretenses
Melchior FRANZ wrote: > Agreed. That's allowed. And unethical, as you let your "customers" > pay for our free work and let them find out later. You mention > I think while an ethical debate is good, perhaps flightgear-devel isn't the place really, probably just clouds the issue, which was originally, "is this a GPL violation". If the source code is delivered on the CD as has been stated, then it would seem quite likely that the distribution is in accordance with the GPL (or at least largely). I would suggest perhaps the distributor could send some prominent concerned developer a copy of their distribution to confirm the source code (for the binary as distributed) is included. > Selling a rebranded version is OK. This is not aimed at you Melchior as obviously you and the other developers are well versed in the GPL, but just a note for the fellow lurkers here who may be wondering how it can be permitted; The GPL does not forbid "selling" the software (for want of a better word). It also does not restrict the price one may charge. It only restricts the cost of distributing source code if and only if the source code is not distributed at the same time as a binary (ie. the distribution contains only an offer to give you the source on request, in which case that offer must be redeemable at "cost price"). There are some other conditions, but by and large, if you give the source code along with the binary, you are good to go for whatever price you can convince somebody to pay. > Using our screenshots is a > clear copyright violation! We only (used to) allow that for > I think this is really the main issue to resolve. I would suggest that it could be resolved in several ways, and that this is ultimately between the copyright holders of the images and the infringing party (and now that the developers are aware, not really something that needs to create noise on the list), but perhaps the simplest means of resolution would be for the infringing party to take down the screen shots, take their own screen shots, and apologise for the mistake. PS: I really don't want to sound like I'm blindly sticking up for a fellow Kiwi, or this practice, or anything like that, because I'm absolutely not -- I'm just a lurking FlightGear user (zk-jrs on multiplayer). I thought just that people were getting carried away on assumptions, diverting much needed developers from doing what they do best, which is creating more coolness for the mere users like me. --- James Sleeman - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Another person selling FlightGe ar under dubious pretenses
On samedi 22 novembre 2008, James Sleeman wrote: SNIP > > Using our screenshots is a > > clear copyright violation! We only (used to) allow that for > > I think this is really the main issue to resolve. I would suggest that > it could be resolved in several ways, and that this is ultimately > between the copyright holders of the images and the infringing party > (and now that the developers are aware, not really something that needs > to create noise on the list), but perhaps the simplest means of > resolution would be for the infringing party to take down the screen > shots, take their own screen shots, and apologise for the mistake. > > PS: I really don't want to sound like I'm blindly sticking up for a > fellow Kiwi, or this practice, or anything like that, because I'm > absolutely not -- I'm just a lurking FlightGear user (zk-jrs on > multiplayer). I thought just that people were getting carried away on > assumptions, diverting much needed developers from doing what they do > best, which is creating more coolness for the mere users like me. > > --- > James Sleeman > As said before, i am part of the Screenshots creator. Because i was spending sometime to give the best of my feeling with it, looking for the best scenario ( with friends on multiplayer, like the rescue operation) , best angle, best lightand best flight control , i do not accept that, any body, any organization, but flightgear.org, would use my screenshots as a trading argument. I guess that Andrew (KcKpers Ltd) should able to make himself the screenshots, which should part of the "re-branding" , since he pretend to do it. Regards -- Gérard http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/ J'ai décidé d'être heureux parce que c'est bon pour la santé. Voltaire - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Change request for atlas.cxx
Seeing as we have a new release coming down the pipe, I have a request
to make in atlas.cxx.
Right now, atlas.cxx uses the following code, in
FGAtlas::gen_message(), to retrieve the ADF frequency:
static SGPropertyNode *adf_freq
= fgGetNode("/instrumentation/kr-87/outputs/selected-khz", true);
I think it should be changed to:
static SGPropertyNode *adf_freq
= fgGetNode("/instrumentation/adf/frequencies/selected-khz", true);
This is based on two reasons:
(1) Most aircraft use the /instrumentation/adf property, and don't
touch /instrumentation/kr-87.
(2) /instrumentation/adf seems more generic than /instrumentation/kr-87.
Now, I can't prove this is correct, mostly because there's no
documentation about what they should mean. However, the convention
seems to be, and the naming seem to suggest, that
/instrumentation/kr-87 is specific to a particular instrument, the
King KR 87, whereas /instrumentation/adf is generic (and thus to be
preferred for atlas messages, which are meant to work for all
aircraft).
I wonder as well (not knowing much about how these things are done) if
the kr-87 shouldn't be tied somehow to /instrumentation/adf. In other
words, should aircraft that *do* have a kr-87 also update the values
in /instrumentation/adf?
Anyway, if my request seems acceptable, could someone please make the
change?
Thanks,
Brian Schack
--
Brian Schack
19 Xǔchāng Street 2Fphone: 2381 4727
Taipei 100 fax:2381 2145
TAIWAN
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[Flightgear-devel] Z-near problem with new code
Hi Tim, With the new code, I have a zNear problem shown in this screenshot : http://frbouvi.free.fr/flightsim/fgfs_near_problem.jpg This build is still OSG 2.6 based. -Fred -- Frédéric Bouvier http://my.fotolia.com/frfoto/ Photo gallery http://fgsd.sourceforge.net/FlightGear Scenery Designer - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Another person selling FlightGear under dubious pretenses
* James Sleeman -- Saturday 22 November 2008: > I think while an ethical debate is good, perhaps flightgear-devel > isn't the place really, [...] Don't worry, flightgear-devel is the right place for that. This is very much on-topic. And I don't take orders about what I write about, except from Curt. I've already stopped posting to the forum after the self-proclaimed forum police tried to tell me what I should write about and what not. This doesn't work here, as long as I'm flightgear developer. Once I've turned into a mere lurker -- and this will certainly happen at some time --, I'll shut up. > perhaps the simplest means of resolution would be for the > infringing party to take down the screen shots, take their > own screen shots, and apologise for the mistake. Agreed. :-) m. - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Another person selling FlightGear un der dubious pretenses
On Saturday 22 November 2008 04:38:48 KcKpers Ltd wrote: > As per the selling it under a different name, well I am actually in the > process of compiling the game etc under this new name (basically > re-branding this which I understand is also within the terms of the GPL) This part is probably one of the most objectionable and damaging things you're doing. > I have also included in the website text itself that this is the case so as > not to deceive people. > Please have a look under features (last two points) > Based on the award winning Flight Gear project > All from the thriving Open Source Community, this sim is forever changing Interesting - I haven't seen that on any of your websites yet, and it certainly wasn't there yesterday - I couldn't find a single mention of the FlightGear project, and believe me I was searching carefully for one. > Once this goes live I also wanted to contribute some funds to the project > developers, or perhaps put it towards a new website I have heard they are > after. This will be a percentage of the actual profit I receive. I > understand I do not need to do this but I want this sim to be the best > around for obvious reasons. If you really want it to be the best sim around, as the rest of us do, why not follow our example and actually get your hands dirty by helping out instead of just taking what's already there and putting your name to it? Why not sell nicely produced DVD sets of FLIGHTGEAR instead of wasting everyone's time with a pointless and misleading rebranding effort? I find the idea that our large team of volunteers (who have put together a "world class" flight sim) would be struggling to produce a simple website quite hillarious... > I will also try to answer what you want to know and even look at a better > way of portraying this software if this is necessary to keep the peace. Giving the proper credit due to the real authors would be a nice start, as would refraining from depriving the project of users who could quite conceivably turn into contributers, as a fairly high percentage of our users do. If they don't know where the real FG community is, both we and they are missing out. AJ - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Z-near problem with new code
Frederic Bouvier wrote: > Hi Tim, > With the new code, I have a zNear problem shown in this screenshot : > http://frbouvi.free.fr/flightsim/fgfs_near_problem.jpg > > This build is still OSG 2.6 based. > > -Fred > Can you tell me what you're expecting to see i.e., is there a cockpit there that isn't displayed, or is this with the UFO? Any other details would be helpful. Thanks, Tim - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Z-near problem with new code
It looks like the near clip plane is out too far. CVS fg and sg from yesterday. Regards... Matthew On 11/22/08, Tim Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Frederic Bouvier wrote: >> Hi Tim, >> With the new code, I have a zNear problem shown in this screenshot : >> http://frbouvi.free.fr/flightsim/fgfs_near_problem.jpg >> >> This build is still OSG 2.6 based. >> >> -Fred >> > Can you tell me what you're expecting to see i.e., is there a cockpit there > that > isn't displayed, or is this with the UFO? Any other details would be > helpful. > > Thanks, > Tim > > > - > This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge > Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great > prizes > Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world > http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ > ___ > Flightgear-devel mailing list > Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel > -- Sent from my mobile device - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Z-near problem with new code
Tim Moore a écrit : > Frederic Bouvier wrote: > >> Hi Tim, >> With the new code, I have a zNear problem shown in this screenshot : >> http://frbouvi.free.fr/flightsim/fgfs_near_problem.jpg >> >> This build is still OSG 2.6 based. >> >> -Fred >> >> > Can you tell me what you're expecting to see i.e., is there a cockpit there > that > isn't displayed, or is this with the UFO? Any other details would be helpful. > > Perhaps it will be more obvious in this screenshot : http://frbouvi.free.fr/flightsim/fgfs_near_problem_3.jpg The near plane clipping is occuring now at a farther distance than before. Look at the tower building. The ground is also clipped. This is with the UFO. -Fred -- Frédéric Bouvier http://my.fotolia.com/frfoto/ Photo gallery http://fgsd.sourceforge.net/FlightGear Scenery Designer - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Z-near problem with new code
In this screenshot : http://frbouvi.free.fr/flightsim/fgfs_near_problem_4.jpg I am seated in the c172. Yes, really ;-) -Fred Matthew Tippett a écrit : > It looks like the near clip plane is out too far. CVS fg and sg from > yesterday. > > Regards... Matthew > > > On 11/22/08, Tim Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Frederic Bouvier wrote: >> >>> Hi Tim, >>> With the new code, I have a zNear problem shown in this screenshot : >>> http://frbouvi.free.fr/flightsim/fgfs_near_problem.jpg >>> >>> This build is still OSG 2.6 based. >>> >>> -Fred >>> >>> >> Can you tell me what you're expecting to see i.e., is there a cockpit there >> that >> isn't displayed, or is this with the UFO? Any other details would be >> helpful. >> -- Frédéric Bouvier http://my.fotolia.com/frfoto/ Photo gallery http://fgsd.sourceforge.net/FlightGear Scenery Designer - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Z-near problem with new code
I can confirm this, also with CVS from yesterday but using OSG 2.7.6. On Sat, Nov 22, 2008 at 12:47 PM, Frederic Bouvier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > In this screenshot : > http://frbouvi.free.fr/flightsim/fgfs_near_problem_4.jpg > I am seated in the c172. Yes, really ;-) > > -Fred > > Matthew Tippett a écrit : > > It looks like the near clip plane is out too far. CVS fg and sg from > yesterday. > > > > Regards... Matthew > > > > > > On 11/22/08, Tim Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >> Frederic Bouvier wrote: > >> > >>> Hi Tim, > >>> With the new code, I have a zNear problem shown in this screenshot : > >>> http://frbouvi.free.fr/flightsim/fgfs_near_problem.jpg > >>> > >>> This build is still OSG 2.6 based. > >>> > >>> -Fred > >>> > >>> > >> Can you tell me what you're expecting to see i.e., is there a cockpit > there > >> that > >> isn't displayed, or is this with the UFO? Any other details would be > >> helpful. > >> > > > -- > Frédéric Bouvier > http://my.fotolia.com/frfoto/ Photo gallery > http://fgsd.sourceforge.net/FlightGear Scenery Designer > > > - > This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's > challenge > Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great > prizes > Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world > http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ > ___ > Flightgear-devel mailing list > Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel > - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Another person selling FlightGear under dubious pretenses
On Sat, 22 Nov 2008 13:19:40 +0100, Melchior wrote in message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > * KcKpers Ltd -- Saturday 22 November 2008: > > I will remove any images if you notify me that you wish them > > to be removed. > > No! Remove all of them, unless someone gives you explicit > permission to use them! You don't have any permission so > far! You are violating our rights and international ..actually, it's local to each and every country, but it works pretty much the same, jail and tremble damages and disgorgement and all. ;o) > copyright law! Copyright doesn't work on an "opt-out" > basis! ..it's really "_Comply_ to the GPL, _OR_, Face the Teeth and Wrath of Copyright Law Enforcement." > > If flight gear is under a GPL license, does this not mean > > work created with the use of flight gear is also under this > > license if it an output of this software > > No! My editor is GPL, but what I write with it is not! ..except if you write FG etc code and commit it into cvs, svn or git etc so it gets into FG, I rather strongly suspect you would own it and commit it under the GPL, and I haven't seen anyone here do that under GPLv3, so the GPLv2 would require Sean, James, Andrew et al to come kneeling to Melchior and Curt et al like Heinrich IV came kneeling to Pope Gregory VII in Canossa, and ask for explicit permission to start distributing FlightGear etc, _after_ they have apologized and paid e.g. tremble damages to fix the damage they have caused FG. ..should e.g. Melchior decide "No." like the Pope did (in the first 3 days) at Fortress Canossa, then Sean, James, Andrew et al must remove _all_ of Melchior's code from their re-branded commercial version of FG and supply that version to _all_ of their customers or gift etc recipients. Etc. ..function and use is irrelevant under the GPL, the GPL and copyright law merely concerns Copyright. ;o) ..and Melchior as copyright owner may want to try out https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_external-webform&f=pps_prohib that Thomas so promptly adviced me of. ;o) ..on Sat, 22 Nov 2008 09:12:27 -0500, Thomas advices in message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 9:25 PM, Arnt Karlsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> So, let's look at what actions should be taken. Given that I am > >> not a copyright owner, I have nothing at stake beyond community > >> membership. > > ..me neither. ;o) > > Actually, he's got a lot more at stake. Namely, if he is not > complying with the license, then he has no license. So any money made > is at state, plus potential punative damages. > > >> Regarding flightgear, I am still trying to connect the dots on how > >> we can be sure there is a GPL violation. > > ..aye, first I'd like to carry on find and verify such verifiable > > facts. > > This is VERY simple. Is there a written offer to get the source > code required to rebuild the application as they ship it? Yes, or no. > *all* the source code. If no, then they have sold products. While I > am not a lawyer, obviously, this is pretty straitforward in a case of > blatant repackaging and re-branding. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Z-near problem with new code
On Sat, 22 Nov 2008 18:41:10 +0100, Frederic wrote in message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Tim Moore a écrit : > > Frederic Bouvier wrote: > > > >> Hi Tim, > >> With the new code, I have a zNear problem shown in this > >> screenshot : http://frbouvi.free.fr/flightsim/fgfs_near_problem.jpg > >> > >> This build is still OSG 2.6 based. > >> > >> -Fred > >> > >> > > Can you tell me what you're expecting to see i.e., is there a > > cockpit there that isn't displayed, or is this with the UFO? Any > > other details would be helpful. > > > > > Perhaps it will be more obvious in this screenshot : > http://frbouvi.free.fr/flightsim/fgfs_near_problem_3.jpg > > The near plane clipping is occuring now at a farther distance than > before. Look at the tower building. The ground is also clipped. This > is with the UFO. ..feature, if you fly UFO's, you also have X-Ray vivion. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Z-near problem with new code
On samedi 22 novembre 2008, Frederic Bouvier wrote: > In this screenshot : > http://frbouvi.free.fr/flightsim/fgfs_near_problem_4.jpg > I am seated in the c172. Yes, really ;-) > > -Fred > > Matthew Tippett a écrit : > > It looks like the near clip plane is out too far. CVS fg and sg from > > yesterday. > > > > Regards... Matthew > > > > On 11/22/08, Tim Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Frederic Bouvier wrote: > >>> Hi Tim, > >>> With the new code, I have a zNear problem shown in this screenshot : > >>> http://frbouvi.free.fr/flightsim/fgfs_near_problem.jpg > >>> > >>> This build is still OSG 2.6 based. > >>> > >>> -Fred > >> > >> Can you tell me what you're expecting to see i.e., is there a cockpit > >> there that > >> isn't displayed, or is this with the UFO? Any other details would be > >> helpful. To me the cvs version which gives the little startup flash screen on the left bottom corner is right with Z-near. -- Gérard http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/ J'ai décidé d'être heureux parce que c'est bon pour la santé. Voltaire - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Further 3D Clouds updates
Hi All, Attached is a small patch for 3D clouds. It provide the following: 1) Proper spherical distribution of sprites (previously they were distributed cylindrically - whoops) 2) Better shading, so the bottom of the cloud is darker than the top. 3) Fixed a couple of texture sizing bugs. I don't think any of these are controversial, so if someone would commit it, I'd be grateful. Thanks, -Stuart simgear.patch.gz Description: GNU Zip compressed data - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Another person selling FlightGear under dubious pretenses
On Sat, 22 Nov 2008 16:54:34 +0100, Melchior wrote in message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > * James Sleeman -- Saturday 22 November 2008: > > I think while an ethical debate is good, perhaps flightgear-devel > > isn't the place really, [...] > > Don't worry, flightgear-devel is the right place for that. This > is very much on-topic. And I don't take orders about what I > write about, except from Curt. I've already stopped posting > to the forum after the self-proclaimed forum police tried > to tell me what I should write about and what not. This doesn't > work here, as long as I'm flightgear developer. Once I've > turned into a mere lurker -- and this will certainly happen > at some time --, I'll shut up. > > > > perhaps the simplest means of resolution would be for the > > infringing party to take down the screen shots, take their > > own screen shots, and apologise for the mistake. > > Agreed. :-) ..under GPLv2, they _also_ need to ask _every_ copyright owner violated, for a _new_ _explicit_ permission to distribute. GPLv3 is more lenient, here you must "just" comply. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Z-near problem with new code
I have seen something similar too. The splash screen seems to be 800x600 unscaled in the bottom left of the screen. It then seems to go full screen shortly after though. I doubt it is related to clipping issue mentioned elsewhere. Regards... Matthew On 11/22/08, gerard robin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On samedi 22 novembre 2008, Frederic Bouvier wrote: >> In this screenshot : >> http://frbouvi.free.fr/flightsim/fgfs_near_problem_4.jpg >> I am seated in the c172. Yes, really ;-) >> >> -Fred >> >> Matthew Tippett a écrit : >> > It looks like the near clip plane is out too far. CVS fg and sg from >> > yesterday. >> > >> > Regards... Matthew >> > >> > On 11/22/08, Tim Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> Frederic Bouvier wrote: >> >>> Hi Tim, >> >>> With the new code, I have a zNear problem shown in this screenshot : >> >>> http://frbouvi.free.fr/flightsim/fgfs_near_problem.jpg >> >>> >> >>> This build is still OSG 2.6 based. >> >>> >> >>> -Fred >> >> >> >> Can you tell me what you're expecting to see i.e., is there a cockpit >> >> there that >> >> isn't displayed, or is this with the UFO? Any other details would be >> >> helpful. > > To me the cvs version which gives the little startup flash screen on the > left > bottom corner is right with Z-near. > > -- > Gérard > http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/ > > J'ai décidé d'être heureux parce que c'est bon pour la santé. > Voltaire > > > - > This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge > Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great > prizes > Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world > http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ > ___ > Flightgear-devel mailing list > Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel > -- Sent from my mobile device - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Z-near problem with new code
On Sat, 2008-11-22 at 18:39 -0500, Matthew Tippett wrote: > I have seen something similar too. The splash screen seems to be > 800x600 unscaled in the bottom left of the screen. It then seems to > go full screen shortly after though. I doubt it is related to > clipping issue mentioned elsewhere. I also did a cvs update and noticed (I think) one or two file change in SimGear and a few file changes in fg source, I also see the same clipping problem. In "helicopter view" large parts of the aircraft are invisible, with parts just floating by themselves and I think in one of the "chase views", there is a circular object (perhaps a cloud) that when a aircraft flies behind it is masked. And the cockpit view is missing, well the entire cockpit, however if you switch to the 2D cockpit you get the default cessna panel... I haven't had time to go back and work out which files changed when I did the cvs update... S. > > Regards... Matthew > > > On 11/22/08, gerard robin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On samedi 22 novembre 2008, Frederic Bouvier wrote: > >> In this screenshot : > >> http://frbouvi.free.fr/flightsim/fgfs_near_problem_4.jpg > >> I am seated in the c172. Yes, really ;-) > >> > >> -Fred > >> > >> Matthew Tippett a écrit : > >> > It looks like the near clip plane is out too far. CVS fg and sg from > >> > yesterday. > >> > > >> > Regards... Matthew > >> > > >> > On 11/22/08, Tim Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> >> Frederic Bouvier wrote: > >> >>> Hi Tim, > >> >>> With the new code, I have a zNear problem shown in this screenshot : > >> >>> http://frbouvi.free.fr/flightsim/fgfs_near_problem.jpg > >> >>> > >> >>> This build is still OSG 2.6 based. > >> >>> > >> >>> -Fred > >> >> > >> >> Can you tell me what you're expecting to see i.e., is there a cockpit > >> >> there that > >> >> isn't displayed, or is this with the UFO? Any other details would be > >> >> helpful. > > > > To me the cvs version which gives the little startup flash screen on the > > left > > bottom corner is right with Z-near. > > > > -- > > Gérard > > http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/ > > > > J'ai décidé d'être heureux parce que c'est bon pour la santé. > > Voltaire > > > > > > - > > This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge > > Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great > > prizes > > Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world > > http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ > > ___ > > Flightgear-devel mailing list > > Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel > > > - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Z-near problem with new code
Scott Hamilton a écrit : > On Sat, 2008-11-22 at 18:39 -0500, Matthew Tippett wrote: >> I have seen something similar too. The splash screen seems to be >> 800x600 unscaled in the bottom left of the screen. It then seems to >> go full screen shortly after though. I doubt it is related to >> clipping issue mentioned elsewhere. >> > > I also did a cvs update and noticed (I think) one or two file change > in SimGear and a few file changes in fg source, I also see the > same clipping problem. In "helicopter view" large parts of the > aircraft are invisible, with parts just floating by themselves > and I think in one of the "chase views", there is a circular object > (perhaps a cloud) that when a aircraft flies behind it is masked. > And the cockpit view is missing, well the entire cockpit, however if > you switch to the 2D cockpit you get the default cessna panel... > > I haven't had time to go back and work out which files changed when I > did the cvs update... > On the computer where I built OSG 2.7.5, there is no clipping problem. -Fred -- Frédéric Bouvier http://my.fotolia.com/frfoto/ Photo gallery http://fgsd.sourceforge.net/FlightGear Scenery Designer - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Z-near problem with new code
To add to this, when in 'Fly By' view, a fast moving aircraft will be visible on the approach, will disappear as it passes through the clip plane, the camera will pan and the aircraft will appear to emerge from the clip-plane. Regards... Matthew On 11/22/08, Matthew Tippett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > It looks like the near clip plane is out too far. CVS fg and sg from > yesterday. > > Regards... Matthew > > > On 11/22/08, Tim Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Frederic Bouvier wrote: >>> Hi Tim, >>> With the new code, I have a zNear problem shown in this screenshot : >>> http://frbouvi.free.fr/flightsim/fgfs_near_problem.jpg >>> >>> This build is still OSG 2.6 based. >>> >>> -Fred >>> >> Can you tell me what you're expecting to see i.e., is there a cockpit >> there >> that >> isn't displayed, or is this with the UFO? Any other details would be >> helpful. >> >> Thanks, >> Tim >> >> >> - >> This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's >> challenge >> Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great >> prizes >> Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the >> world >> http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ >> ___ >> Flightgear-devel mailing list >> Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel >> > > -- > Sent from my mobile device > -- Sent from my mobile device - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Another person selling FlightGear under dubious pretenses
Arnt Karlsen wrote: >>> perhaps the simplest means of resolution would be for the infringing party >>> to take down the screen shots, take their >>> own screen shots, and apologise for the mistake. >>> >> Agreed. :-) >> > ..under GPLv2, they _also_ need to ask _every_ copyright owner > violated, for a _new_ _explicit_ permission to distribute. > GPLv3 is more lenient, here you must "just" comply. > Hmm, I'm not sure why you are bringing the GPL to the screen shot discussion... We know that: The screen shots are not GPL. The code is GPL. The subject has infringed the copyright of the screen shots. They claim they have not infringed the terms of the GPL. No other license has been given for the screen shots, the GPL does not apply to them. The GPL does still stand for the code itself and the person infringing the screen shot copyrights can continue to distribute the code under GPL without seeking further permission to do so, so long as they meet the GPL conditions for the code which is licensed under the GPL. This of course does not change the fact that in order to use a screen shot one must obtain permission from the copyright holder of that image -- or cease to use the image and beg forgiveness, which is probably the much more likely solution than getting permission. --- James Sleeman - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Z-near problem with new code
Hi, I have similar problem, but a bit different (on Mac OS X) When launching with non 800x600, the splash screen is centered. no problem. but when resetting after resizing window has a clipping problem. Here is the screenshot: http://macflightgear.sourceforge.net/wp-content/uploads/800x600bug.jpg I launched fgfs with 800x600. When on runway, I resized window and then reset. I used fg/cvs, sg/cvs, plib/svn, and osg/svn as of 11 hours ago. I made sure the version of CameraGroup.cxx is 1.7 (the latest) It seems that the screen size (view size?) is also reset to the one settled at the launch time. If I specify --geometry=1024x768 option, the view size on reset always goes to 1024x768 no matter what actual window size at rest is. I guess we need to update the view size on reset. Best, Tat On Nov 23, 2008, at 9:00 AM, Frederic Bouvier wrote: > Scott Hamilton a écrit : >> On Sat, 2008-11-22 at 18:39 -0500, Matthew Tippett wrote: >>> I have seen something similar too. The splash screen seems to be >>> 800x600 unscaled in the bottom left of the screen. It then seems to >>> go full screen shortly after though. I doubt it is related to >>> clipping issue mentioned elsewhere. >>> >> >> I also did a cvs update and noticed (I think) one or two file change >> in SimGear and a few file changes in fg source, I also see the >> same clipping problem. In "helicopter view" large parts of the >> aircraft are invisible, with parts just floating by themselves >> and I think in one of the "chase views", there is a circular object >> (perhaps a cloud) that when a aircraft flies behind it is masked. >> And the cockpit view is missing, well the entire cockpit, however if >> you switch to the 2D cockpit you get the default cessna panel... >> >> I haven't had time to go back and work out which files changed when I >> did the cvs update... >> > > On the computer where I built OSG 2.7.5, there is no clipping problem. > > -Fred - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
