Re: [Flightgear-devel] Sinking feeling - c172 on gravel runway
On Thu, 2011-02-10 at 15:34 +0100, Bertrand Coconnier wrote: Correct. JSBSim itself makes no distinction between ground materials (hence the reason why some aircrafts are able to land on water). This can however be managed with Nasal scripts. So I would say that this issue is likely located in one of the C172 Nasal scripts. Bertrand On an OT philisophical note.. Is , or rather, was the introduction of NASAL scripting a Good Thing or can it be considered as the hugest abomination to ever befall the FG World, rendering the use of GDB as a useless tool for tracing the behaviour of C/C++ code, sometimes modified or nullified by a run-time script? Just a thought. Are there any other source code purists out there. I hope so, cos I would hate to justify this untimely rant on my own. Somehow it reminds me of self modifiaction of computer code, thought clever by some specialists when Babbage was but a baby. -- Kind regards, Alasdair -- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Sinking feeling - c172 on gravel runway
Hi, Though, newbe, since i have to maintain some old jsbsim aircraft, my understanding ts becoming better. Here we do have a c172p which is using nasal only for animation, that scrip is, to me, right now, useless. The data compression, rotation and so on, are exposed in the, today, jsbsim FDM. The others features, landing gear related ( rolling friction and so on ) , can be easily processed, within the FDM, since, the required data are exposed, and RT updated, with functions. To do that, jsbsim want only the ground values, load-resistance, friction-factor, rolling-friction, and solid or not. These real time data are NOT EXPOSED within Flighgear,. i don't know, why, and, i don't know if this has being discussed before. ONLY, a little nasal script gives the right required, input. Thus, every jsbsim Aircraft model which want the right behavior on ground, need that nasal scrip. Yes the best would be to transfer the nasal 30 lines script to the jsbsim source, or better to the Flightgear source, since others generic flightgear features does want such data. I can notice the usage of that nasal script with some yasim aircraft also. 2011/2/11 Alasdair ali...@btinternet.com On Thu, 2011-02-10 at 15:34 +0100, Bertrand Coconnier wrote: Correct. JSBSim itself makes no distinction between ground materials (hence the reason why some aircrafts are able to land on water). This can however be managed with Nasal scripts. So I would say that this issue is likely located in one of the C172 Nasal scripts. Bertrand On an OT philisophical note.. Is , or rather, was the introduction of NASAL scripting a Good Thing or can it be considered as the hugest abomination to ever befall the FG World, rendering the use of GDB as a useless tool for tracing the behaviour of C/C++ code, sometimes modified or nullified by a run-time script? Just a thought. Are there any other source code purists out there. I hope so, cos I would hate to justify this untimely rant on my own. Somehow it reminds me of self modifiaction of computer code, thought clever by some specialists when Babbage was but a baby. -- Kind regards, Alasdair -- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Best regards, Henri, aka Alva Official grtux hangar maintainer -- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Patch for shaders (default reflect)
Hi all.
Attached are two patches that should fix bug reports
http://code.google.com/p/flightgear-bugs/issues/detail?id=246 and
http://code.google.com/p/flightgear-bugs/issues/detail?id=252 . The
patches should be against latest git, they are done with command git
diff.
The first one just normalizes the length of the normal after flipping it
in case of double sided polygons. I guess there is some interpolation
issue with older nvidia cards leading to the light saturation issue, but
at least on my computer this seemed to fix it.
The second one removes unused varyings (vec4 - vec3 etc) from reflect,
bumpspec and reflect-bump-spec shaders and should allow running those
shaders on older hardware. Authors of models using those shaders should
probably check that the visual appearance is still the same, I did a
quick check with some aircrafts and they looked fine to me.
- Lauri Peltonen (Zan)
diff --git a/Shaders/default.frag b/Shaders/default.frag
index 3b01a66..52afbaf 100644
--- a/Shaders/default.frag
+++ b/Shaders/default.frag
@@ -14,7 +14,7 @@ float luminance(vec3 color)
void main()
{
-vec3 n, halfV;
+vec3 n;
float NdotL, NdotHV, fogFactor;
vec4 color = gl_Color;
vec3 lightDir = gl_LightSource[0].position.xyz;
@@ -22,16 +22,16 @@ void main()
vec4 texel;
vec4 fragColor;
vec4 specular = vec4(0.0);
-n = normalize(normal);
+
// If gl_Color.a == 0, this is a back-facing polygon and the
// normal should be reversed.
+n = (2.0 * gl_Color.a - 1.0) * normal;
+n = normalize(n);
-n = (2.0 * gl_Color.a - 1.0) * n;
-NdotL = max(dot(n, lightDir), 0.0);
+NdotL = dot(n, lightDir);
if (NdotL 0.0) {
color += diffuse_term * NdotL;
-halfV = halfVector;
-NdotHV = max(dot(n, halfV), 0.0);
+NdotHV = max(dot(n, halfVector), 0.0);
if (gl_FrontMaterial.shininess 0.0)
specular.rgb = (gl_FrontMaterial.specular.rgb
* gl_LightSource[0].specular.rgb
diff --git a/Shaders/model-default.frag b/Shaders/model-default.frag
index 5ed50a6..2c94b92 100644
--- a/Shaders/model-default.frag
+++ b/Shaders/model-default.frag
@@ -22,11 +22,11 @@ void main()
vec4 texel;
vec4 fragColor;
vec4 specular = vec4(0.0);
-n = normalize(normal);
// If gl_Color.a == 0, this is a back-facing polygon and the
// normal should be reversed.
-n = (2.0 * gl_Color.a - 1.0) * n;
-NdotL = max(dot(n, lightDir), 0.0);
+n = (2.0 * gl_Color.a - 1.0) * normal;
+n = normalize(n);
+NdotL = dot(n, lightDir);
if (NdotL 0.0) {
color += diffuse_term * NdotL;
halfV = normalize(halfVector);
diff --git a/Shaders/bumpspec.frag b/Shaders/bumpspec.frag
index b708746..16f8d16 100644
--- a/Shaders/bumpspec.frag
+++ b/Shaders/bumpspec.frag
@@ -2,11 +2,11 @@
// Licence: GPL v2
// Author: Frederic Bouvier
-varying vec4 ecPosition;
+varying float fogCoord;
+
varying vec3 VNormal;
varying vec3 VTangent;
varying vec3 VBinormal;
-varying vec4 constantColor;
uniform sampler2D tex_color;
uniform sampler2D tex_normal;
@@ -29,7 +29,7 @@ void main (void)
vec4 Diffuse = gl_LightSource[0].diffuse * nDotVP;
vec4 Specular = gl_LightSource[0].specular * pf;
- vec4 color = constantColor + Diffuse * gl_FrontMaterial.diffuse;
+ vec4 color = gl_Color + Diffuse * gl_FrontMaterial.diffuse;
color *= texture2D(tex_color, gl_TexCoord[0].xy);
color += Specular * gl_FrontMaterial.specular * ns.a;
@@ -37,7 +37,6 @@ void main (void)
float fogFactor;
- float fogCoord = ecPosition.z;
const float LOG2 = 1.442695;
fogFactor = exp2(-gl_Fog.density * gl_Fog.density * fogCoord * fogCoord * LOG2);
fogFactor = clamp(fogFactor, 0.0, 1.0);
diff --git a/Shaders/bumpspec.vert b/Shaders/bumpspec.vert
index 4ed1b8a..d7b7a89 100644
--- a/Shaders/bumpspec.vert
+++ b/Shaders/bumpspec.vert
@@ -2,23 +2,24 @@
// Licence: GPL v2
// Author: Frederic Bouvier
-varying vec4 ecPosition;
+varying float fogCoord;
varying vec3 VNormal;
varying vec3 VTangent;
varying vec3 VBinormal;
-varying vec4 constantColor;
attribute vec3 tangent;
attribute vec3 binormal;
void main (void)
{
- ecPosition = gl_ModelViewMatrix * gl_Vertex;
+ vec4 pos = gl_ModelViewMatrix * gl_Vertex;
+fogCoord = pos.z / pos.w;
+
VNormal = normalize(gl_NormalMatrix * gl_Normal);
VTangent = normalize(gl_NormalMatrix * tangent);
VBinormal = normalize(gl_NormalMatrix * binormal);
- constantColor = gl_FrontLightModelProduct.sceneColor + gl_LightSource[0].ambient * gl_FrontMaterial.ambient;
- gl_FrontColor = constantColor;
+
+ gl_FrontColor = gl_FrontLightModelProduct.sceneColor + gl_LightSource[0].ambient * gl_FrontMaterial.ambient;
gl_TexCoord[0] = gl_MultiTexCoord0;
gl_Position = ftransform();
}
diff --git a/Shaders/reflect-bump-spec.frag
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Sinking feeling - c172 on gravel runway
On Fri, 11 Feb 2011 08:43:43 + Alasdair ali...@btinternet.com wrote: On an OT philisophical note.. Is , or rather, was the introduction of NASAL scripting a Good Thing or can it be considered as the hugest abomination to ever befall the FG World I really can't see how anyone with any experience whatsoever in developing models for FlightGear could fail to agree that the property tree coupled with nasal is an utterly invaluable and incredibly powerful, yet flexible and simple to learn tool that opens up an entire world of possibilities that just wouldn't be feasible otherwise. Hugest abomination... sorry, but I'd have to question the sanity or level of FG knowledge of anyone who would suggest that with any kind of sincerity... AJ -- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Sinking feeling - c172 on gravel runway
Every engineering tool and every solution to every problem has strengths and weaknesses. The trick is to make the best advantage of the strengths and find suitable work arounds to minimize the impact of the weaknesses. Hopefully we are successful in this, but software development is always a process and there is always room for improvement. On the subject of nasal and the property system. What this gives us is the ability to create all kinds of specific aircraft functionality or functionality specific to a location or time or specific landmark -- without having to compile code to model every system of every aircraft into one massively huge executable. Nasal puts more power and control into the hands of our content creators (aircraft, scenery, etc.) Nasal allows people to do things never anticipated by any of our developers who write C++ code. The property system allows us to connect new systems models with new graphics and animations with new external communication protocols without changing a single line of C++ code. An aircraft modeler can create the logic of some system (electrical, hydraulic, de-icing, SAS, CAS, etc.) along with the graphics models to support it (cockpit controls, cockpit displays) and never have to fire up the C++ compiler. Recently I've been playing with prototyping a pretty sophisticated auto-land system in Nasal. Hopefully that will eventually migrate over to my UAS work and this same logic will work in the real world (fingers crossed) :-) The downside is of course that all of this happens outside the domain of the C++ compiler so you lose the ability to automatically catch variable name spelling or type errors, we don't have debugger access to step through nasal code. But from the standpoint of minimizing our weaknesses, Nasal does catch and report quite a few syntax errors. If there is a spelling error in a property name you usually can catch that because your code doesn't do what ti's supposed to do. We have the ability to generate a notice whenever a specific property is read or written to, and you can insert print()'s into nasal code to help see what's going on ... so there is quite a bit of available structure to debug nasal code and property system usage ... the tools are just a bit different. Best regards, Curt. P.S. An alternative to our open scripting/property system might be a plugin system which is what many proprietary applications offer. I bet if we sat around and brain stormed for a few minutes we could come up with a few disadvantages to that approach ... because every approach has strengths and weaknesses. In comparison, because FlightGear is an open-source program and because we have a desire to keep everything open and all our cards face up on the table ... this can lead to some different engineering decisions as we develop our software. On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 6:57 AM, AJ MacLeod wrote: On Fri, 11 Feb 2011 08:43:43 + Alasdair ali...@btinternet.com wrote: On an OT philisophical note.. Is , or rather, was the introduction of NASAL scripting a Good Thing or can it be considered as the hugest abomination to ever befall the FG World I really can't see how anyone with any experience whatsoever in developing models for FlightGear could fail to agree that the property tree coupled with nasal is an utterly invaluable and incredibly powerful, yet flexible and simple to learn tool that opens up an entire world of possibilities that just wouldn't be feasible otherwise. Hugest abomination... sorry, but I'd have to question the sanity or level of FG knowledge of anyone who would suggest that with any kind of sincerity... AJ -- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Curtis Olson: http://www.atiak.com - http://aem.umn.edu/~uav/ http://www.flightgear.org - http://www.flightgear.org/blogs/category/curt/http://www.flightgear.org/blogs/category/personal/curt/ -- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Sinking feeling - c172 on gravel runway
Hi, Nasal allows people to do things never anticipated by any of our developers who write C++ code. The property system allows us to connect new systems models with new graphics and animations with new external communication protocols without changing a single line of C++ code. An aircraft modeler can create the logic of some system (electrical, hydraulic, de-icing, SAS, CAS, etc.) along with the graphics models to support it (cockpit controls, cockpit displays) and never have to fire up the C++ compiler. Recently I've been playing with prototyping a pretty sophisticated auto-land system in Nasal. I can only agree to this statement! Me, a not-programmer, began to dig into nasal a few months ago and was able to make things which wasn't there in FGFS yet. It is indeed a big adavantage of Nasal that it is quite easy to understand and don't need to be compiled.Often Nasal is indeed used as work-around- but quite often exactly this leads to implementation as hardcode. (mouse-accleration) -- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Sinking feeling - c172 on gravel runway
On Thu, 2011-02-10 at 18:46 -0700, Ron Jensen wrote: Hey, I just reproduced the thing. Wind was 14 from 330 and I was on 08 so there is a small tailwind. The c172p isn't set up to handle out-of-flight envelope winds so it produces a large, erroneous pitching moment. I have an idea for a solution. Will test and submit soon. Ron Hi, Re: http://www.geoffair.net/tmp/tilted-001.png Thanks Ron. After few more tests, am now also sure it is the tailwind, thus can probably be duplicated anywhere, anytime, at least with the c172p. Will try some more, but this does answer why in say 1 specific machine/OS it would happen one day, and not the next ;=)) 1. It seems real weather fetch is _ALWAYS_ on, unless you specifically disable it. Can someone confirm this! And Martin, I was always specifically selecting YGIL:33, regardless of winds! And assumed the r/w selection was based on wind, but in the YGIL case, IRL the short 1000 ft 08/26 is NOT really used anymore, now they have tarred the new 4000 foot 15/33 runway, thus was miffed when fgfs put me on 08/26 ;=)) Fred, by the way, the weather fetch seems contrary to the 'default' sense in FGRUN command construction. The option :- [ ] Real weather fetch which adds --enable-real-weather-fetch, tends to suggest it is _OFF_ by default? Perhaps this should be reversed, to say - [ ] Disable real weather fetch so that it adds --disable-real-weather-fetch... at least while fgfs continues to DEFAULT to real weather fetching... if this is indeed the case. 2. Thanks Csaba. Yes I too later realized that I was 'using a stupid shell script wrapper' to pass in the arguments, and this was _NOT_ doing the right thing ;=(( OT: Must try to find the right way for this ;=)) since I do 'love' running fgfs using simple shell scripts... But to reproduce it easily, when sitting on say YGIL:33, I could go into the weather dialog, set it to manual, adjust the wind to say 22028KT and apply, and bingo, after 1-3 seconds, the Cessna tilted up like shown... And changing that back to say 33008KT, Apply, and after 3-10 seconds, the Cessna righted itself :=)) And this was even though I had returned my apt.dat.gz to the original... still pondering that change, but noted, sometimes the weather dialog show just NIL, on certain runs... maybe??? 3. But I think we can forget it being a nasal thing, for now... Alasdair, (AJ, Curt,), do not appreciate the hijacking of my thread. Start your own if you want to discuss, 'rant', on the use of nasal ;=)) its been done several, many?, times before... I like nasal, as an open, very powerful, plugin type technology... And Henri, the idea of generalizing what I now understand to be something to do with animations, also seems worth a NEW thread to discuss that... 4. So Ron, good luck on finding the problem when we have '... out-of-flight envelope winds so it produces a large, erroneous pitching...' And maybe this would go a long way to closing John's issue 250 ;=)) Anything I can do to help? Testing, etc... Many thanks to all those who help in this... It look like we may be on the flight to levelness ;=)) Regards, Geoff. -- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Sinking feeling - c172 on gravel runway
On Fri, 2011-02-11 at 12:57 +, AJ MacLeod wrote: On Fri, 11 Feb 2011 08:43:43 + Alasdair ali...@btinternet.com wrote: On an OT philisophical note.. Is , or rather, was the introduction of NASAL scripting a Good Thing or can it be considered as the hugest abomination to ever befall the FG World I really can't see how anyone with any experience whatsoever in developing models for FlightGear could fail to agree that the property tree coupled with nasal is an utterly invaluable and incredibly powerful, yet flexible and simple to learn tool that opens up an entire world of possibilities that just wouldn't be feasible otherwise. Hugest abomination... sorry, but I'd have to question the sanity or level of FG knowledge of anyone who would suggest that with any kind of sincerity... AJ That's just about the reponse I was expecting. Thanks, it was just that that nasal sometimes gets right up my nose. Sorry for the noise, back to musing. -- Kind regards, Alasdair -- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] fix for broken socket code in FreeBSD
Hi all.
Please commit the diff below to SimGear.
Sometime in October 2010 SimGear had its PLIB net dependency removed. As a
result, socket code on FreeBSD (and possibly other *BSD) was broken. This
was manifest as silent failure to make outgoing connections -- no error
messages were logged (--log-level=debug).
-ivan
diff --git a/simgear/io/raw_socket.hxx b/simgear/io/raw_socket.hxx
index f68ff10..4eb3044 100644
--- a/simgear/io/raw_socket.hxx
+++ b/simgear/io/raw_socket.hxx
@@ -25,7 +25,7 @@
#include errno.h
-#if defined(__APPLE__)
+#if defined(__APPLE__) || defined(__FreeBSD__)
# include netinet/in.h
#endif
@@ -38,7 +38,7 @@ namespace simgear
class IPAddress
{
/* DANGER!!! This MUST match 'struct sockaddr_in' exactly! */
-#ifdef __APPLE__
+#if defined(__APPLE__) || defined(__FreeBSD__)
__uint8_t sin_len;
__uint8_t sin_family;
in_port_t sin_port;
--
The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE:
Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen.
Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle.
Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] sound via simgear
Folks, Could I ask if via simgear and I assume to alsa behind that, if its possible to to get control over the levels of left and right channels and hook them on the property tree. Where I am heading here splitting a single stereo sound device into 2 mono channels, ie is to be able to steer nav audio to the left like for example ils marker tones, and maybe atc chatter or some thing else to the right channel. -- Regards Harry -- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Sinking feeling - c172 on gravel runway
Curtis Olson wrote: On the subject of nasal and the property system. What this gives us is the ability to create all kinds of specific aircraft functionality or functionality specific to [...] I agree for the cases you're outlining in your statement. On the other hand I think I understand what Alasdair is concerned about: Taking the ground surface material into account is a 'feature', a requirement which clearly belongs into the responsibility of the gear-department of the FDM. Thus if Nasal hacks to circumvent FDM- or other core-deficiencies are becoming standard in the long run, then this development is very likely going to bite you sooner or later. Maintaining a healthy level of distinction between core features and add-on's is, to put it straightforward, a matter of 'education'. Cheers, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] sound via simgear
Hi Harry, FlightGear uses a 3d sound system so as far as I know, we can't directly split sound like you are asking for. However it should be possible to specify the position of a sound in the cockpit and achieve pretty much the same thing. At least this used to work several years ago when I was playing with it. I was able to to localize the left and right engine sounds. In addition in an external fly-by you could hear the sound moving from one speaker to the other which was really cool. Now that I think about it we may have lost that positional capability in the fly by so I don't know if positioning the sound inside the cockpit is working any more either? Curt. On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 9:25 AM, Harry Campigli harryc...@gmail.com wrote: Folks, Could I ask if via simgear and I assume to alsa behind that, if its possible to to get control over the levels of left and right channels and hook them on the property tree. Where I am heading here splitting a single stereo sound device into 2 mono channels, ie is to be able to steer nav audio to the left like for example ils marker tones, and maybe atc chatter or some thing else to the right channel. -- Regards Harry -- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Curtis Olson: http://www.atiak.com - http://aem.umn.edu/~uav/ http://www.flightgear.org - http://www.flightgear.org/blogs/category/curt/http://www.flightgear.org/blogs/category/personal/curt/ -- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Sinking feeling - c172 on gravel runway
On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 9:38 AM, Martin Spott wrote: Curtis Olson wrote: On the subject of nasal and the property system. What this gives us is the ability to create all kinds of specific aircraft functionality or functionality specific to [...] I agree for the cases you're outlining in your statement. On the other hand I think I understand what Alasdair is concerned about: Taking the ground surface material into account is a 'feature', a requirement which clearly belongs into the responsibility of the gear-department of the FDM. Thus if Nasal hacks to circumvent FDM- or other core-deficiencies are becoming standard in the long run, then this development is very likely going to bite you sooner or later. Maintaining a healthy level of distinction between core features and add-on's is, to put it straightforward, a matter of 'education'. I was a little careless in paying attention to the thread topic, sorry about that, but I wanted to give an answer with a bit broader context beyond making conclusions about people's sanity levels based on their opinions ... in which case we'd probably all be at least a little insane from someone else's perspective. :-) I think there could definitely be a development progression here where new ideas can be prototyped quickly in nasal ... and if it works well and proves generally useful, we could then discuss how to formalize it and move it into the core C++ code. And of course, as always we have to be vigilant and take good care of the design or it will quickly devolve. That involves education, discussion, maybe a rare virtual slap, and probably a healthy amount of disagreement at times too. We are a big group that brings a lot of different perspectives to the table. Curt. -- Curtis Olson: http://www.atiak.com - http://aem.umn.edu/~uav/ http://www.flightgear.org - http://www.flightgear.org/blogs/category/curt/http://www.flightgear.org/blogs/category/personal/curt/ -- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Sinking feeling - c172 on gravel runway
Geoff McLane wrote: And Martin, I was always specifically selecting YGIL:33, regardless of winds! Ah, ok nevertheless, consider taxiing downwind to your taxi holding position, you wouldn't expect your aircraft tilting back _that_ much ;-) Cheers, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Sinking feeling - c172 on gravel runway
On Fri, 11 Feb 2011 15:31:14 +0100, Geoff wrote in message 1297434674.6683.9.camel@DELL02: And Martin, I was always specifically selecting YGIL:33, regardless of winds! And assumed the r/w selection was based on wind, but in the YGIL case, IRL the short 1000 ft 08/26 is NOT really used anymore, now they have tarred the new 4000 foot 15/33 runway, ..all of it?: http://maps.google.com/maps?spn=0.015453,0.018163t=hhl=enll=-31.697221,148.636111fc=1 thus was miffed when fgfs put me on 08/26 ;=)) ..aye, it needs grass. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] sound via simgear
Thanks Curt, well there more than one way to skin a cat, I can push the motherboard sound chips in the networked machines into service, or maybe load a few el-cheapo sound cards in the spare pci slots of the main machine. Should be able to get around it that way, Reason behind it is the audio selector panels, nav and comm radio heads have individual controls for these things. I will put that on the back burner as for now as my sim io serial module from 2009 (a modified atlas clone) wont compile against the new git fgfs Cheers, Harry On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 10:41 PM, Curtis Olson curtol...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Harry, FlightGear uses a 3d sound system so as far as I know, we can't directly split sound like you are asking for. However it should be possible to specify the position of a sound in the cockpit and achieve pretty much the same thing. At least this used to work several years ago when I was playing with it. I was able to to localize the left and right engine sounds. In addition in an external fly-by you could hear the sound moving from one speaker to the other which was really cool. Now that I think about it we may have lost that positional capability in the fly by so I don't know if positioning the sound inside the cockpit is working any more either? Curt. On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 9:25 AM, Harry Campigli harryc...@gmail.comwrote: Folks, Could I ask if via simgear and I assume to alsa behind that, if its possible to to get control over the levels of left and right channels and hook them on the property tree. Where I am heading here splitting a single stereo sound device into 2 mono channels, ie is to be able to steer nav audio to the left like for example ils marker tones, and maybe atc chatter or some thing else to the right channel. -- Regards Harry -- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Curtis Olson: http://www.atiak.com - http://aem.umn.edu/~uav/ http://www.flightgear.org - http://www.flightgear.org/blogs/category/curt/http://www.flightgear.org/blogs/category/personal/curt/ -- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel - -- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] sound via simgear
In a past life when I was working on a big driving sim built around a real car we also used several separate PC's for audio ... we wanted outside noises, inside noises, left, right, front, back, etc. Some of that we could have done with software mixing, but in our context, a lot of it was just easier to do by adding another PC. Curt. On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 10:14 AM, Harry Campigli wrote: Thanks Curt, well there more than one way to skin a cat, I can push the motherboard sound chips in the networked machines into service, or maybe load a few el-cheapo sound cards in the spare pci slots of the main machine. Should be able to get around it that way, Reason behind it is the audio selector panels, nav and comm radio heads have individual controls for these things. I will put that on the back burner as for now as my sim io serial module from 2009 (a modified atlas clone) wont compile against the new git fgfs Cheers, Harry On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 10:41 PM, Curtis Olson curtol...@gmail.comwrote: Hi Harry, FlightGear uses a 3d sound system so as far as I know, we can't directly split sound like you are asking for. However it should be possible to specify the position of a sound in the cockpit and achieve pretty much the same thing. At least this used to work several years ago when I was playing with it. I was able to to localize the left and right engine sounds. In addition in an external fly-by you could hear the sound moving from one speaker to the other which was really cool. Now that I think about it we may have lost that positional capability in the fly by so I don't know if positioning the sound inside the cockpit is working any more either? Curt. On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 9:25 AM, Harry Campigli harryc...@gmail.comwrote: Folks, Could I ask if via simgear and I assume to alsa behind that, if its possible to to get control over the levels of left and right channels and hook them on the property tree. Where I am heading here splitting a single stereo sound device into 2 mono channels, ie is to be able to steer nav audio to the left like for example ils marker tones, and maybe atc chatter or some thing else to the right channel. -- Regards Harry -- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Curtis Olson: http://www.atiak.com - http://aem.umn.edu/~uav/ http://www.flightgear.org - http://www.flightgear.org/blogs/category/curt/http://www.flightgear.org/blogs/category/personal/curt/ -- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel - -- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Curtis Olson: http://www.atiak.com - http://aem.umn.edu/~uav/ http://www.flightgear.org - http://www.flightgear.org/blogs/category/curt/http://www.flightgear.org/blogs/category/personal/curt/ -- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] sound via simgear
Ok curt, Heaven forbid I am trying to cull pcs not add more. I wrote an additional network io module to get cloud and navaid settings to the slaves a couple of years ago i will revisit that after I figure out the changes the developers have made of late. I guess i should put some of this non conventional multi-machine sim building material of a webpage or something? Harry On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 11:19 PM, Curtis Olson curtol...@gmail.com wrote: In a past life when I was working on a big driving sim built around a real car we also used several separate PC's for audio ... we wanted outside noises, inside noises, left, right, front, back, etc. Some of that we could have done with software mixing, but in our context, a lot of it was just easier to do by adding another PC. Curt. On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 10:14 AM, Harry Campigli wrote: Thanks Curt, well there more than one way to skin a cat, I can push the motherboard sound chips in the networked machines into service, or maybe load a few el-cheapo sound cards in the spare pci slots of the main machine. Should be able to get around it that way, Reason behind it is the audio selector panels, nav and comm radio heads have individual controls for these things. I will put that on the back burner as for now as my sim io serial module from 2009 (a modified atlas clone) wont compile against the new git fgfs Cheers, Harry On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 10:41 PM, Curtis Olson curtol...@gmail.comwrote: Hi Harry, FlightGear uses a 3d sound system so as far as I know, we can't directly split sound like you are asking for. However it should be possible to specify the position of a sound in the cockpit and achieve pretty much the same thing. At least this used to work several years ago when I was playing with it. I was able to to localize the left and right engine sounds. In addition in an external fly-by you could hear the sound moving from one speaker to the other which was really cool. Now that I think about it we may have lost that positional capability in the fly by so I don't know if positioning the sound inside the cockpit is working any more either? Curt. On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 9:25 AM, Harry Campigli harryc...@gmail.comwrote: Folks, Could I ask if via simgear and I assume to alsa behind that, if its possible to to get control over the levels of left and right channels and hook them on the property tree. Where I am heading here splitting a single stereo sound device into 2 mono channels, ie is to be able to steer nav audio to the left like for example ils marker tones, and maybe atc chatter or some thing else to the right channel. -- Regards Harry -- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Curtis Olson: http://www.atiak.com - http://aem.umn.edu/~uav/ http://www.flightgear.org - http://www.flightgear.org/blogs/category/curt/http://www.flightgear.org/blogs/category/personal/curt/ -- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel - -- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Curtis Olson: http://www.atiak.com - http://aem.umn.edu/~uav/ http://www.flightgear.org - http://www.flightgear.org/blogs/category/curt/http://www.flightgear.org/blogs/category/personal/curt/ -- The ultimate all-in-one performance
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Sinking feeling - c172 on gravel runway
Hi Curt, No probs, now that it seems Ron might have found something, thus the thread is hovering on closing, so chat away... Actually, I would go so far as to say that each of us would probably be considered totally insane by at least some others perspective ;=)) Re: http://www.geoffair.net/tmp/tilted-001.png I would now confirm my Ubuntu build of yesterday will tilt up on YGIL:33 using 22028KT, and politely return to 3 legs changing that to 33008KT. Wait 10-15++ seconds for stability to take over... About to test LFPZ with this new knowledge... Martin, on the other hand you could consider the strange a/c tilting as a warning that you forgot to read the meteo this morning dummy, and as an indication that you 'should' taxi to another runway ;=)) A case against a 'fix'? And Arnt, with less that 10 inches of rain per year, they would probably have to import grass from Germany, or somewhere ;=)) On my last visit I did not walked down to the end of 33, but note FG scenery seems to changes surfaces about 2/3 down, and I do not know why. Its apt.dat displacement/overrun numbers seem .??? I guess 33 looks brownish in Google-time due to some recent red dust storm, or something, because I remember it as 'blacker', but forgot to get a picture... Saw a big 4 engined military transport doing some touch and go training, from a base not too far down the track. It was its soft low rumble that caused me to drive to the a/p in the first place, following up on a big bird circling town... Regards, Geoff. -- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Sinking feeling - c172 on gravel runway
On Friday 11 February 2011 10:07:11 Geoff McLane wrote: Hi Curt, No probs, now that it seems Ron might have found something, thus the thread is hovering on closing, so chat away... While we argue over how many angles can dance on the head of a pin over on the JSBSim list, here is a simple patch to the c172p fdm that stops the tilting. Ron --- ../../../JSBSim/aircraft/c172p/c172p.xml 2011-02-09 10:58:12.0 -0700 +++ /usr/share/games/flightgear/Aircraft/c172p/c172p.xml 2011-02-10 23:03:00.0 -0700 @@ -778,7 +778,9 @@ propertyaero/qbar-psf/property propertymetrics/Sw-sqft/property propertymetrics/cbarw-ft/property -propertyaero/alpha-rad/property +sin +propertyaero/alpha-rad/property +/sin value-1.8000/value /product /function -- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Sinking feeling - c172 on gravel runway
On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 5:18 PM, Ron Jensen wrote: On Friday 11 February 2011 10:07:11 Geoff McLane wrote: Hi Curt, No probs, now that it seems Ron might have found something, thus the thread is hovering on closing, so chat away... While we argue over how many angles can dance on the head of a pin over on the JSBSim list, here is a simple patch to the c172p fdm that stops the tilting. Thanks Ron, I'll take a look at this over the weekend and get it committed. I've also got on my TODO list replacing the Nasal nose gear animation code with straight XML animations. -Stuart -- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] TerraySync/SceneryPrefetch with FGwizzard downloads into wrong Dir
No idea if somebody noticed already - because I have a little unusual setup in my FG_Scenery (FGrun page 0): 1) Scenery-EDDF-papillon... (new rw's in EDDF, not yet in TS) 2) Scenery/TerraSync (marked with new T) 3) Scenery (standard) When using TerraSync or Scenery Prefetch it downloads into 1) (papillon) -- what I do not really like!! I thought the T would define to upgrade to TerraSync !! My FGFS version is 2.2.0 on UBUNTU, installed by download_and_compile.sh 2011-02-02 (see http://wiki.flightgear.org/index.php/Scripted_Compilation_on_Linux_Debian/Ubuntu). No big deal for me - but in case nobody noticed it yet joe (jomo) -- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] sound via simgear
On 11.02.2011 16:41, Curtis Olson wrote: In addition in an external fly-by you could hear the sound moving from one speaker to the other which was really cool. Now that I think about it we may have lost that positional capability in the fly by so I don't know if positioning the sound inside the cockpit is working any more either? It should work. We do have a bug report that the Doppler-effect isn't working on some systems (maybe depending on hardware devices). But no one has mentioned a problem with the 3D sound yet. And it works for me. However, it does depend on a/c designers: cockpits are more fun, if different sound sources are actually located at different positions - rather than using the same audio position for each effect (copypaste). cheers, Thorsten -- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] TerraySync/SceneryPrefetch with FGwizzard downloads into wrong Dir
Hi, Von: Jörg Emmerich j-emmer...@online.de Betreff: [Flightgear-devel] TerraySync/SceneryPrefetch with FGwizzard downloads into wrong Dir An: FlightGear developers discussions flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Datum: Freitag, 11. Februar, 2011 18:33 Uhr No idea if somebody noticed already - because I have a little unusual setup in my FG_Scenery (FGrun page 0): 1) Scenery-EDDF-papillon... (new rw's in EDDF, not yet in TS) 2) Scenery/TerraSync (marked with new T) 3) Scenery (standard) When using TerraSync or Scenery Prefetch it downloads into 1) (papillon) -- what I do not really like!! I thought the T would define to upgrade to TerraSync !! My FGFS version is 2.2.0 on UBUNTU, installed by download_and_compile.sh 2011-02-02 (see http://wiki.flightgear.org/index.php/Scripted_Compilation_on_Linux_Debian/Ubuntu). No big deal for me - but in case nobody noticed it yet joe (jomo) User Fault! ;-) TerraSync has to be in the first row and marked as (1), so it will downloaded into the right folder! -- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Sinking feeling - c172 on gravel runway
Hi Ron, Beautiful and quick ;=)) Thank you... I was about to report, that sitting on LFPZ:12L, and set a manual wind of 25025KT, and Apply - add a couple of full elevator movements, and the a/c tumbled head over heals, all by itself - Crashed! But after applying your patch to the c172p.xml, I can see only a very small up and down motion on full elevator deflections... will keep testing... but it 'feels' solved... I am afraid I can not answer 'how many angles can dance on the head of a pin'! You did not give me the pins full specification, but there are probably many other reasons ;=)) And Stuart, look forward to the xml animation changes... As always, absolutely stonkered on what a few lines of xml can do, if you have knowledge of where to look... Thanks again. Now I can go back to viewing kangaroos... Regards, Geoff. -- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Sinking feeling - c172 on gravel runway
I've also got on my TODO list replacing the Nasal nose gear animation code with straight XML animations. Maybe this can help creating the necessary animations: http://wiki.flightgear.org/index.php/Howto:_Animate_gear_scissors Torsten -- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Sinking feeling - c172 on gravel runway
On 02/11/2011 10:28 AM, Stuart Buchanan wrote: On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 5:18 PM, Ron Jensen wrote: On Friday 11 February 2011 10:07:11 Geoff McLane wrote: Hi Curt, No probs, now that it seems Ron might have found something, thus the thread is hovering on closing, so chat away... While we argue over how many angles can dance on the head of a pin over on the JSBSim list, here is a simple patch to the c172p fdm that stops the tilting. Thanks Ron, I'll take a look at this over the weekend and get it committed. I've also got on my TODO list replacing the Nasal nose gear animation code with straight XML animations. -Stuart Including the link animations? Getting the correct link angle of rotation requires either an arcos or arcsin approximation. Similar for the main gear strut rotation angles. Dave P. -- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Sinking feeling - c172 on gravel runway
On Fri, 2011-02-11 at 15:38 +, Martin Spott wrote: Curtis Olson wrote: On the subject of nasal and the property system. What this gives us is the ability to create all kinds of specific aircraft functionality or functionality specific to [...] I agree for the cases you're outlining in your statement. On the other hand I think I understand what Alasdair is concerned about: Taking the ground surface material into account is a 'feature', a requirement which clearly belongs into the responsibility of the gear-department of the FDM. Thus if Nasal hacks to circumvent FDM- or other core-deficiencies are becoming standard in the long run, then this development is very likely going to bite you sooner or later. Maintaining a healthy level of distinction between core features and add-on's is, to put it straightforward, a matter of 'education'. Cheers, Martin. Well said that man. Thank you, Martin. I could not have put it more succinctly myself. As I said in my original message, this was intended to be considered as a programming philosophy question, rather than a criticism of the NASAL sub-system, per se. And certainly _not_ a criticism of the property tree, which I think is rather cute in conception, but horribly prone to violation via run-time mechanisms. I, myself fell foul to thIs problem while researching more realistic allocation of a collection of festival voices for ATIS/TWR/GND/AI-Pilots etc. where a message was sent to /sim/messages/... in trafficcontrol.cxx and turns up immediently in voice.cxx as /sim/sound/voices/voice [n] Now, while I find this disagreeable as a theorist, I find disturbing as a pragmatist, in the sence that the executable fgfs will _not_ run if I choose to disable the NASAL (see below) ?plugin. Now, how do knowledgeable guys like AJ suggest who is the boss and who is the slave in this particular tug-of-love? As an aside, I would love to hear from the creator of the current git developer of fgdata/ATC/default.[vce,wav] with a view making ATIS announcements a little more human. For my own part, I found (voice_nitech_us_slt_arctic_hts) provided the most audible and closest approximation to sweetest female voice we had previously. Grrr... the lady's name is buried deep in my archives, so apologies to said lady's husband with whom I have communicated in the past You will note in all further dicussions that I will refer to nasal as NASAL (Not Another Scripting Language), which denies its very existentence through a lie in its own nomenclature. cf GNU which makes no such assertion, but was probably dreamed up by a brainy recursionist like Csaba. I suggest that this topic has diverged sufficient from the current Subject matter. I suggest To Kludge or not_to use_NASAL, that is my Q. Sorry William S I, myself, as I am sure as AJ will attest to, am far too stupid to undertake this procedure on my own -- Kind regards, Alasdair -- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] c172p gear compression (was Re: Sinking feeling - c172 on gravel runway)
On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 7:21 PM, dave perry wrote: On 02/11/2011 10:28 AM, Stuart Buchanan wrote: I've also got on my TODO list replacing the Nasal nose gear animation code with straight XML animations. -Stuart Including the link animations? Getting the correct link angle of rotation requires either an arcos or arcsin approximation. Similar for the main gear strut rotation angles. Yes, but as described here: http://wiki.flightgear.org/index.php/Howto:_Animate_gear_scissors that doesn't need to be calculated at run-time, but instead can be handled by interpolation tables based on the gear compression. I don't think action-sim.nas is doing any more for the gear compression, is it? -Stuart -- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Sinking feeling - c172 on gravel runway
Hello Dave, I did meant the Nasal script is useless, since we can do the same feature only with jsbsim . Functions complex or not can be done within it. It can answer to such external feature like animation. Because we don't forget the main target, with jsbsim, to build the most realistic simulation, using jsbsim to PLAY with animation could be understood, a waste :) In order to answer to Alasdair remark i did want only to point that other alternative, not to criticize the work, your work, done with Nasal. My apologize, i did not explained. 2011/2/11 dave perry skida...@mindspring.com The nasal script action-sim,and similar animation scripts produces aircraft-geometry-unique animation parameters used by xml files to produce the actual animations. If one wants to animate the gear so it responds to the fdm produced gear compressions, such nasal scripts are critical. The alternative is to have the tires penetrate the ground surface different depth dependent on the fdm supplied compression and the oleo links move up and down rigidly. Both are not at all realistic. This script is not at all useless. Dave P. (author of the script) On 02/11/2011 05:49 AM, henri orange wrote: Hi, Though, newbe, since i have to maintain some old jsbsim aircraft, my understanding ts becoming better. Here we do have a c172p which is using nasal only for animation, that scrip is, to me, right now, useless. The data compression, rotation and so on, are exposed in the, today, jsbsim FDM. The others features, landing gear related ( rolling friction and so on ) , can be easily processed, within the FDM, since, the required data are exposed, and RT updated, with functions. To do that, jsbsim want only the ground values, load-resistance, friction-factor, rolling-friction, and solid or not. These real time data are NOT EXPOSED within Flighgear,. i don't know, why, and, i don't know if this has being discussed before. ONLY, a little nasal script gives the right required, input. Thus, every jsbsim Aircraft model which want the right behavior on ground, need that nasal scrip. Yes the best would be to transfer the nasal 30 lines script to the jsbsim source, or better to the Flightgear source, since others generic flightgear features does want such data. I can notice the usage of that nasal script with some yasim aircraft also. 2011/2/11 Alasdair ali...@btinternet.com On Thu, 2011-02-10 at 15:34 +0100, Bertrand Coconnier wrote: Correct. JSBSim itself makes no distinction between ground materials (hence the reason why some aircrafts are able to land on water). This can however be managed with Nasal scripts. So I would say that this issue is likely located in one of the C172 Nasal scripts. Bertrand On an OT philisophical note.. Is , or rather, was the introduction of NASAL scripting a Good Thing or can it be considered as the hugest abomination to ever befall the FG World, rendering the use of GDB as a useless tool for tracing the behaviour of C/C++ code, sometimes modified or nullified by a run-time script? Just a thought. Are there any other source code purists out there. I hope so, cos I would hate to justify this untimely rant on my own. Somehow it reminds me of self modifiaction of computer code, thought clever by some specialists when Babbage was but a baby. -- Kind regards, Alasdair -- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Best regards, Henri, aka Alva Official grtux hangar maintainer -- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance.http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb ___ Flightgear-devel mailing listFlightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.nethttps://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Sinking feeling - c172 on gravel runway
On Fri, 2011-02-11 at 14:59 +, Alasdair wrote: On Fri, 2011-02-11 at 12:57 +, AJ MacLeod wrote: On Fri, 11 Feb 2011 08:43:43 + Alasdair ali...@btinternet.com wrote: On an OT philisophical note.. Is , or rather, was the introduction of NASAL scripting a Good Thing or can it be considered as the hugest abomination to ever befall the FG World I really can't see how anyone with any experience whatsoever in developing models for FlightGear could fail to agree that the property tree coupled with nasal is an utterly invaluable and incredibly powerful, yet flexible and simple to learn tool that opens up an entire world of possibilities that just wouldn't be feasible otherwise. Hugest abomination... sorry, but I'd have to question the sanity or level of FG knowledge of anyone who would suggest that with any kind of sincerity... AJ That's just about the reponse I was expecting. Thanks, it was just that that nasal sometimes gets right up my nose. Sorry for the noise, back to musing. Actually, thinking back to my original question, I would like to question your authority to make such a disgusting suggestion as to question the sanity of a profesional who dares to contradict your views. There were many, but thank goodness, they were dispatched with by the appropriate authorities, and just remain but a blot on the history of humanity. -- Kind regards, Alasdair -- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Sinking feeling - c172 on gravel runway
While you like discussing how to do gear animation right does anyone remember this experiment (ok, the colours are wrong in the video, the aircraft would be blue with yellow paintings): http://foxtrot.mgras.net/bitmap/FGFS/gear-animation.mpeg This aircraft model doesn't contain a single piece of Nasal code, instead it's running on an FDM which is capable of doing proper _simulation_ of every individual piece of the gear - proper visual animation is just a natual consequence. Therefore I feel like the discussion about gear animation is sort of a pseudo debate Have fun, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Sinking feeling - c172 on gravel runway
On Fri, 11 Feb 2011 21:26:51 + Alasdair ali...@btinternet.com wrote: Actually, thinking back to my original question, I would like to question your authority to make such a disgusting suggestion as to question the sanity of a profesional who dares to contradict your views. Curt's somewhat more diplomatic reply represented my views exactly; my own views are based on a reasonable level of personal experience and some evidence for that experience, imperfect and limited as it may be, is in the Flightgear data tree. I wish I had the time to maintain and improve it, because FG exists and improves only through people actually _producing_ things, not trolling on mailing lists. If hyperbole really gets up your nose then I suggest that you refrain from first exhaling it, however professionally. AJ -- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Sinking feeling - c172 on gravel runway
On 02/11/2011 11:54 AM, Alasdair wrote: You will note in all further dicussions that I will refer to nasal as NASAL (Not Another Scripting Language), which denies its very existentence through a lie in its own nomenclature. cf GNU which makes no such assertion, but was probably dreamed up by a brainy recursionist like Csaba. Yeah. That guy was a serious egghead. What happened to him? Andy -- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Sinking feeling - c172 on gravel runway
On Fri, 2011-02-11 at 22:11 +, AJ MacLeod wrote: On Fri, 11 Feb 2011 21:26:51 + Alasdair ali...@btinternet.com wrote: Actually, thinking back to my original question, I would like to question your authority to make such a disgusting suggestion as to question the sanity of a profesional who dares to contradict your views. Curt's somewhat more diplomatic reply represented my views exactly; my own views are based on a reasonable level of personal experience and some evidence for that experience, imperfect and limited as it may be, is in the Flightgear data tree. I wish I had the time to maintain and improve it, because FG exists and improves only through people actually _producing_ things, not trolling on mailing lists. If hyperbole really gets up your nose then I suggest that you refrain from first exhaling it, however professionally. AJ -- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel Well, Goodness Gracious me! Not only does does this fellow deem it proper to question my sanity for daring to air a reasonable philosophical question, but dammit he is right back here bitting his own ass by challenging my views with a demonstrably ridiculous lack of knowlege of English linguistics. Let's all hope that his self professed personal experience counters his lack skills in all other matters. +For your information the word hyperbole refers to an English language figure of speech roughly meaning _EXAGERATION_ ,an idiom with which even an idiot using it shoild be familiar. Wiser guys tend to avoid using words they are unfamiliar/ignorant with/of.. Furthermore, my deliberate use of the phrases nasal and gets up my nose in one sentence was a completely different figure of speech which passed right over your head. If you can tell me what that figure of speech is, and promise never to use it unwisely or incorrectly in open forum, I will promise to forgive you for calling me insane and never again to respond to your idiotic ravings -- Kind regards, Alasdair -- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] ..understanding gravel, dirt, tar etc surfaces, was: Sinking feeling - c172 on gravel runway
On Fri, 11 Feb 2011 18:07:11 +0100, Geoff wrote in message 1297444031.6683.16.camel@DELL02: And Arnt, with less that 10 inches of rain per year, they would probably have to import grass from Germany, or somewhere ;=)) ..maybe they did, Google shows 08/26 as green. ;o) On my last visit I did not walked down to the end of 33, but note FG scenery seems to changes surfaces about 2/3 down, and I do not know why. Its apt.dat displacement/overrun numbers seem .??? I guess 33 looks brownish in Google-time due to some recent red dust storm, or something, because I remember it as 'blacker', but forgot to get a picture... ..maybe Google got their pix just after those runway ends were tarred? Doing the runway ends first, makes good sense to keep dust out of the power plants. ..googling, I found reason to advice airport and scenery modellers of these: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarmac http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macadam http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chipseal http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirt_road http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravel_road ...and of tar and asphalt ... ;o) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitumen http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asphalt_concrete ..what I didn't find, was info on salting dirt roads in the summer to bind dust, AFAIR, this was done after grading it, and in a dry coupla weeks, the road surface would harden and pick up a blue sheen from the tire rubber deposited onto it. This wasn't weatherproof and was lost in the first day of rain, which usually also added pot holes, requiring a new grading pass every 6 or so weeks, so it was asphalted ;o) about 40years ago. ..http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washboarding is also relevant to landing gear modeling, but isn't quite understood by the RL road engineers either. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Sinking feeling - c172 on gravel runway
On Fri, 11 Feb 2011, Andy Ross wrote: On 02/11/2011 11:54 AM, Alasdair wrote: You will note in all further dicussions that I will refer to nasal as NASAL (Not Another Scripting Language), which denies its very existentence through a lie in its own nomenclature. cf GNU which makes no such assertion, but was probably dreamed up by a brainy recursionist like Csaba. Yeah. That guy was a serious egghead. What happened to him? I think he's hanging out with Kibo these days... g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.simpits.org/geneb - The Me-109F/X Project ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end. -- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Sinking feeling - c172 on gravel runway
On Fri, 2011-02-11 at 15:23 -0800, Andy Ross wrote: On 02/11/2011 11:54 AM, Alasdair wrote: You will note in all further dicussions that I will refer to nasal as NASAL (Not Another Scripting Language), which denies its very existentence through a lie in its own nomenclature. cf GNU which makes no such assertion, but was probably dreamed up by a brainy recursionist like Csaba. Yeah. That guy was a serious egghead. What happened to him? Andy -- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel He is up and well and very lively in this group. One of a few I respect and admire He even gives me huge hope for the future in promising to be as better computer programmer than I was. And the poor sucker probably never even had a PDP/1170 to play with I 1,100... ..Welcome root MOTD.. Happy days, 15 Dec 68 Anyone see a FU**IN Registry in sight? See one right here, boss!!! Armourer! Get the Guns BOOOM,, BOOOM All quiet on the occluded front DEC RSTS/11, Resource and Time sharing Up and Ready -- Kind regards, Alasdair -- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Sinking feeling - c172 on gravel runway
On Fri, 2011-02-11 at 15:49 -0800, Gene Buckle wrote: On Fri, 11 Feb 2011, Andy Ross wrote: On 02/11/2011 11:54 AM, Alasdair wrote: You will note in all further dicussions that I will refer to nasal as NASAL (Not Another Scripting Language), which denies its very existentence through a lie in its own nomenclature. cf GNU which makes no such assertion, but was probably dreamed up by a brainy recursionist like Csaba. Yeah. That guy was a serious egghead. What happened to him? I think he's hanging out with Kibo these days... g. -- Kind regards, Alasdair -- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Sinking feeling - c172 on gravel runway
On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 5:23 PM, Andy Ross a...@plausible.org wrote: On 02/11/2011 11:54 AM, Alasdair wrote: You will note in all further dicussions that I will refer to nasal as NASAL (Not Another Scripting Language), which denies its very existentence through a lie in its own nomenclature. cf GNU which makes no such assertion, but was probably dreamed up by a brainy recursionist like Csaba. Yeah. That guy was a serious egghead. What happened to him? Yeah, after we took him under our wing, taught him how to run an editor and write code, showed him the F = m * a equation ... and the next thing we know he's run off chasing the big bucks! Look at all the trouble you caused. :-) Curt. -- Curtis Olson: http://www.atiak.com - http://aem.umn.edu/~uav/ http://www.flightgear.org - http://www.flightgear.org/blogs/category/curt/http://www.flightgear.org/blogs/category/personal/curt/ -- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Sinking feeling - c172 on gravel runway
On Sat, 12 Feb 2011, AJ MacLeod wrote: On Fri, 11 Feb 2011 23:30:40 + Alasdair ali...@btinternet.com wrote: Well, Goodness Gracious me! Not only does does this fellow deem it proper to question my sanity for daring to air a reasonable philosophical question, but dammit he is right back here bitting his own ass by challenging my views with a demonstrably ridiculous lack of knowlege of English linguistics. Just ignore him, he's clearly an illiterate imbecile ;-) I think ya'll just need to hang this one up and let it alone. g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.simpits.org/geneb - The Me-109F/X Project ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end. -- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Sinking feeling - c172 on gravel runway
I think ya'll just need to hang this one up and let it alone. g. I know. What a love-fest, eh? ;-) jb -- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Sinking feeling - c172 on gravel runway
On Fri, 11 Feb 2011, Jon S. Berndt wrote: I think ya'll just need to hang this one up and let it alone. g. I know. What a love-fest, eh? ;-) Indeed. g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.simpits.org/geneb - The Me-109F/X Project ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end. -- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Sinking feeling - c172 on gravel runway
On Fri, 2011-02-11 at 16:44 -0800, Gene Buckle wrote: On Sat, 12 Feb 2011, AJ MacLeod wrote: On Fri, 11 Feb 2011 23:30:40 + Alasdair ali...@btinternet.com wrote: Well, Goodness Gracious me! Not only does does this fellow deem it proper to question my sanity for daring to air a reasonable philosophical question, but dammit he is right back here bitting his own ass by challenging my views with a demonstrably ridiculous lack of knowlege of English linguistics. Just ignore him, he's clearly an illiterate imbecile ;-) I think ya'll just need to hang this one up and let it alone. g. Thank you, Gene. Sensible words. I have already promised this widow not to respond to his abuse any longer, either on-list or off. My discussions with McLeod should now be considered signed off and clear. Anyone else willing to enter into the my original discussion, please feel welcome to respond. Curt, I was pleased to recieve your response, but got a little distracted by the noise and will respond directly. -- Kind regards, Alasdair -- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Sinking feeling - c172 on gravel runway
I don't know about y'all, and even though I am not a developer, y'all deserve a tremendous vote of thanks and appreciation for all you've done for this community. And, as I said that I'm not a developer, I have learned a lot in the short time I've monitored the conversations. Y'all have a great team. Regards, D. A. Andre CDR, USN (ret) -Original Message- From: Gene Buckle [mailto:ge...@deltasoft.com] Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 8:02 PM To: FlightGear developers discussions Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Sinking feeling - c172 on gravel runway On Fri, 11 Feb 2011, Jon S. Berndt wrote: I think ya'll just need to hang this one up and let it alone. g. I know. What a love-fest, eh? ;-) Indeed. g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.simpits.org/geneb - The Me-109F/X Project ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end. -- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] TerraySync/SceneryPrefetch with FGwizzard downloads into wrong Dir
Heiko Sorry - I do not understand your answer: User Fault! ;-) TerraSync has to be in the first row and marked as (1), so it will downloaded into the right folder! Did somebody change the design and reasoning completely? Are you sure about your answer?? Please have a look at http://wiki.flightgear.org/index.php/Terrasync and see the description in chapter Start TerraSync from fgrun.exe ..., notice especially the field in the right upper corner - what for is the possibility of defining which is the TerraSync-Dir?? (Yes I know: The layout has changed since then - but the function should still be there!) If that philosophy has changed I urgently suggest to go back to it - many pilots like to test new sceneries prior to change there TerraSync and/or Scenery directories at once!! joe -- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
