[foreman-dev] *** This mailing list is now archived ***
As per previous discussion, this mailing list is now archived. Community discussion and support is available on https://community.theforeman.org. If you still wish to use email, then once you have claimed your account, you can email "d...@community.theforeman.org" to start new topics on the forum. Do check your notification preferences too. For a short time, new posts here wil be seen by moderators and help provided to get you onto the forum. This will switch off in a few weeks, after which emails will bounce. Thanks for your support and understanding during the migration. I'm sure we'll like our new home, but it may take us a short while to settle in :) Happy New Year (and new tools)! Greg -- Greg Sutcliffe Foreman Community Lead -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[foreman-dev] Discourse migration begininng now
As per the migration schedule, the final migration happens tonight. I'm beginning work on this now, so expect some weirdness in the near future ;) I'm setting all users to "moerated posting" so that we can catch any users that havent seen the change yet and gently redirect them to the forum - if you have moderator permissions on the group, watch out for that. Process should be to ask them to resend the email to users|d...@community.theforeman.org and then once they have, delete the post - that avoids needing any further data import from Google Groups after today Greg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
[foreman-dev] Final reminder - Foreman will move from Google Groups to Discourse on 1st Jan 2018
Hi all, As per the migration plan, all is going smoothly and we are in the final week before tranisiton on New Year's Eve. We're already seeing some good traffic to the forum and people are getting answers so it seems it'll perform it's primary function just fine :) A reminder that if you haven't already, you can claim your account using the Forgot Password link in combination with the email you post to the mailing list with. Also, for now, forum nicknames are freely editable - these normally lock after a few days, but I've disabled that for now so that people can change the auto-generated nicknames on the precreated accounts. I will of course give a warning before re-enabling this. Tags have been created, feel free to use them when creating new topics. Groups have also been created, both for you to mention in your posts if you need the attention of those people, and also to join if that part of the codebase / plugin is of interest to you. I've had no comments so far on the documentation, so I assume it's doing it's job. Feedback is still very welcome on that of course. I'll be spending this week preparing the PR to the website to remove mention of the mailing lists ready for Sunday night. Almost there. See you on the other side :) Greg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
[foreman-dev] Re: [foreman-users] ACTION - Foreman will move from Google Groups to Discourse on 1st Jan 2018
We're now 2 weeks away from migration date, so here's a quick update. * Lists, website, blog, and Twitter updated with the migration details * 100+ user visits in the last week * Support, Dev, and Feedback categories actually getting some real use * Outbound email and system load well within capability * Tags are now created, please do use them where appropriate * "Solved" plugin is available if you want to mark solutions in Support * Introductory notes and issue template updated I'm still looking for feedback on how well the signposting works for a new user. Let me know if you have thoughts. In the coming week I'll be adding the Groups that you can join (if you wish to be notified when certain parts of the ecosystem are being talked about), and updating our Infra docs on the Discourse hosting. I'll also be preparting a PR to the website for removing mention of the lists (this will not be merged until the 31st). So far all is looking pretty good. I'll update again in a week (yes, I know that's Christmas Eve, I have no life :P) Cheers, Greg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [foreman-dev] Introducing #theforeman-dev-ui, an experiment
On 14/12/17 16:04, Walden Raines wrote: > The UX team is playing with the idea of forking UI discussions out > into a separate channel. We will do a month long experiment and see > how it goes. > > *Background:* The irc channel #theforeman-dev is very busy and > there are often times multiple conversations taking place > simultaneously. Whilst I'm generally against fragmentation of similar discussion types (i.e dev chat in this case), I can see why you want to test this out. Will be interested in seeing your results. BTW I can add it to the Matrix Foreman community if you OP me on the channel. > *Hypothesis:* By using the irc channel #theforeman-dev-ui > conversations will be more relevant to those who are concerned > mainly with UI topics. Having a smaller channel will also facilitate > more conversation because of this focus. Facilitate, yes. Also could potentially exclude people too, especially if they don't see this thread. If this channel persists after your poll, please do send PRs to the website etc so that *new* people to the chat community know where to find discussions. Greg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [foreman-dev] Nominating additional maintainers in foreman-core
On 13/12/17 17:28, Tomer Brisker wrote: > Hello, > > A week has passed with multiple +1's and no objections. Congrats Shimon and > Michael! > Can one of the organization owners please do the honors? Added to the Core team, congrats both. Greg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [foreman-dev] Re: Discourse - upcoming dates
Yeah, I wasn't suggesting changing the default, it's just a nice option to have. -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[foreman-dev] ACTION - Foreman will move from Google Groups to Discourse on 1st Jan 2018
Hi all, TLDR - the mailing lists will be switched to read-only at the end of 31st Dec, and from 1st Jan, we will be moving to Discourse [0]. Message me on the forum at [1] if you have questions. # What's happening? As you'll all be aware from previous mails [2], YouTube content [3] and the newsletter [4], we've been debating for about a month on moving to a forum for our community interaction. That debate has run it's course, and the conclusion is clear - a move to Discourse is popular. Accordingly, I am now setting in motion the plan for the migration [5]. Today, I'm notifying all 3 lists that they will be switched to read-only on 31st Dec (3 weeks away). # What do I need to do? Firstly, claim your Discourse account (if you haven't yet) - if you've ever *posted* to the mailing list, then you already have an account, and can use the "Forgot Password" option on your email address to get logged in (or use GitHub login, if the email is the same there). (If you're a lurker and have never posted, then you'll have to create the account yourself, sorry. Don't be shy though, now's a good time :P). Once logged in there's an FAQ banner at the top to help you get started (with links to more in-depth topics), and Discobot (the forum bot) will message you with some tips too. You can dismiss the banner with the "X" once you're done with it. Any questions, you can send a message to me [1] on the forum and I'll respond as soon as I can (using the forum helps me collect them into an FAQ). If you prefer, you can also post in the "Site Feedback" category. # What happens next? During the next few weeks I'll be tweaking Discourse to suit our needs (groups, tags, settings, etc) and writing docs to help orient new users. I'm *very* interested in hearing from the first few users who jump on about how easy to find the docs are, and how helpful. I'll also be updating the Google Groups web interface with a deprecation notice, and preparing PRs to the website to point new users at Discourse. If you spot anything where we can improve sign-posting for people, get in touch [1]. The lists will remain functional for now, but I would encourage people starting *new* threads to consider using the forum. The entire list archive will be merged to the forum, so nothing will be lost, but it means you get a head start on getting used to Discourse, we can help you get oriented, and you can test our docs (and thanks for that!). Do hang tight, I'm sure *something* unexpected will come up - but we're shooting for the quietest time of year, and once we're up and running, I think this will be good for all of us. More updates will follow in due course :) Regards, Greg "Gwmngilfen" Sutcliffe Foreman Community Lead 0: https://community.theforeman.org 1: https://community.theforeman.org/u/gwmngilfen/ 2: https://groups.google.com/d/topic/foreman-users/XXSETIlScX4 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdV6US_d4-U 4: https://theforeman.org/2017/11/foreman-community-newsletter-november-2017.html 5: https://community.theforeman.org/t/migration-plan/7550 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [foreman-dev] Re: Discourse - upcoming dates
Just a short update on this - tomorrow is the day on my date list for the announcement, but today is actually T-3weeks, so I'll be sending that out to both lists in just a few minutes. The result, as I spoke about on the demo this week, is fairly clear - while we have some cautious voices (and I thank them for keeping our feet on the ground :P), we will be moving everything to Discourse. I've tried to make sure that the concerns we *can* address outside of the obvious "one list or two?" question are handled, but more suggestions are welcome as we go forward. To Lukas' point about foreman-announce - I've created a Release Announcements category which can be used for this purpose, which currently only moderators can post to. I'm happy to widen those permissions, perhaps via a group that can post there - I agree we should announce more things. Thoughts on this are welcome. Handily (for those that use RSS) you can also use this category via RSS, which is a nice bonus. Try: https://community.theforeman.org/c/release-announcements.rss Might be useful for the new RSS feature in core? :) The migration plan is now being enacted, and anyone who wants to proof read it (or any of the forum docs I'm writing) will make me very grateful indeed! Cheers Greg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
[foreman-dev] Notifications / monitoring for infra
Lukas asked me to raise this after Koji ran out of space, so ... :) Currently there are two forms of notification from our infra. Firstly there is the private infra Google Group, but no-one seems to know who maintains is (Dominic?). Secondly, there is a list of email addresses written by Puppet to /etc/aliases (current it's me, Ohad and Michael). While notifications from Koji would have at least reached more people if it was in Puppet (which we discussed briefly, but no one had time for), I think it makes sense to think about what we want to do more generally about this stuff. My *long term* preference would be proper monitoring - something like Icinga or Zabbix, properly deployed with the appropriate checks, and the ability to alert the right people if a check fails. That's the right thing to do, and is flexibile in who gets a particular alert. In the short term, though, we could use either *another* mailing list (since the existing Google Group seems lost) or a private infra group on Discourse (I tested it briefly, you can email in to a group and keep the messages private to the group members). Either of these would work in the short term. We could also use an alias on the root DNS (in...@theforeman.org or something) but I don't think Ohad can set up multiple forwards for that very easily... and it's harder to manage when the list of forwards changes (only Ohad can do it). Thoughts? I lean to a temporary solution on Discourse (but not strongly, a mailing list is fine here), and proper monitoring to be added to Eric's infra roadmap for later on. Greg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[foreman-dev] 2018 community survey
It's time (again, :P) to start drafting the community survey for while we're in Belgium next year :) I'm short on time today, so here's a link to last year's survey. Much of the generic questions will remain the same, they seem to work. What other burning issues would people like data on? What needs more detail? What can be dropped? https://theforeman.org/2017/03/2017-foreman-survey-analysis.html I'll get to work stripping out the outdated questions and incorporating new ones sometime next week. Greg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[foreman-dev] Re: Discourse - upcoming dates
It's been a week since I opened up the poll, time for an update... TLDR: Poll closes next week, then it's "New year, new tools" ;) # Myself As most of you know, today is my last day full-time, as I go off on leave tomorrow for a few months. However, this is my most ambitious community project to-date, and I will not be abandoning it. Expect to see me active in the evenings (GMT) - my profile [1] will tell you when I was last seen if you want to stalk me :P If you need me urgently, an email or a private message on Discourse should reach me within 5-10mins, and I will reply as soon as I am able (likely immediately, at least in brief). # Which lists? https://community.theforeman.org/t/poll-which-lists-should-migrate-to-discourse/7598 At first glance this poll is pretty clear, 71% in favour of moving both lists. But that would be unfair to long-time members of the community who voted to move a single list - as we often say, it's a meritocracy, not a democracy, and not all votes are equal. There isn't a number for "merit" that exists, so as an approximation, I weighted the votes using the length of time the user has been on the mailing list (not perfect, but better than nothing). The results, however, don't shift the needle very much: Total vote-days cast: 26490 Both lists: 16156 (60.99%) Just users: 10334 (39.01%) Even attempting to weight for karma/merit/call-it-what-you-like, we still get a pretty clear 61% result. I will leave the poll open into next week (Thanksgiving means the US in particular haven't had much time to consider), but I think we need to start planning for this outcome. Sidenote: I don't want vote-days to become a standard metric, I think we're usually pretty good at coming to a consensus - but in this case I wanted to try to give fair treatment to those who disagree with me on a divisive topic. Hopefully that works for everyone. If you want to check my maths, you can find the raw data and the script I used at [2]. # Moderators & Maintenance I'd like to thank Ori, Tomer, and Eric for agreeing to be moderators. In my absence, any spam/flagged-posts/tags/split topics/etc issues can be directed to them. Ori and Ewoud are also admins, should that be necessary for some reason. The Discourse host has been added to our puppetmaster, and offsite backups of the Discourse DB are now happening. This includes files, and so will protect us in the unlikely event of a complete loss of the host. # Users feedback I will bump the users thread today and make them aware of the poll too. So far I've only heard positive or neutral feedback from users (some of it private, so you'll have to believe me), and I don't expect any major upset at this stage. The November newsletter will also contain this info, so that readers there have a final chance to join in before we take a conclusion next week. # Migration plan https://community.theforeman.org/t/draft-migration-plan-theoretical/7550 No comments have been left on this yet, so either I've done a really good job of planning, or ... ;) I think the debate is now coming to a natural close (no new viewpoints have been addded in a while), and we also need to consider a time to do the actual migration. New Year is traditionally very quiet, and seems to fit the timescale. Given the above plan calls for a 3 week notice period, I'm currently planning on the following dates: Thu Dec 7th - conclude polls and state decisions regarding list(s) Mon Dec 11th - initiate migration plan (as above, T - 3 weeks) Sun Dec 31st - at midnight (or close to it) migrate the list(s) I can work though the items on the plan in my evenings, it's not too high a load, but assistance is welcome ofc. I will also volunteer to give up my New Year's evening to do the migration - with 2 small children, I'm not going out anyway :P New Year, new tools. Should be fun :) Thanks Greg [1] https://community.theforeman.org/u/Gwmngilfen/summary [2] http://irc.emeraldreverie.org/R -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[foreman-dev] New committers on the website repo
We don't have an official policy for committers on the website repo, so this is just a heads-up. I noticed that we have no-one (except Ohad) who can commit to the website in TLV. Since Ori needs commit access anyway to take over running events from me, and to avoid timezone-related bus-factor, I've added both Ori and Tomer to the website team. Any concerns, get in touch ;) Greg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [foreman-dev] Proposal: Foreman 1.18 = 2.0
On 29/11/17 12:17, Ewoud Kohl van Wijngaarden wrote: > So I'd disagree we use SemVer. I didn't mean we use it *properly*, just that anytime I see X.Y.Z as a versioning structure, my mind immediately thinks SemVer. That we *do* use it in other places only adds to the confusion. What I am thinking is that we *should* use SemVer, and not get so hesitant to bump the X component in the future. We have stuff we've wanted to deprecate for a while now, so let's use a tool for that which we already use in other places. It might also allow us to be more formal about those plugin contracts... Bikeshedding about SemVer aside, I'm good with doing a 2.0 release in the near future, but *please* lets use it to deprecate / drop stuff we no longer want to maintain. Otherwise there's no real point to it. Greg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[foreman-dev] Redmine upgrades - WIP
Hi all, As you all know, our Redmine instance is very very old, so I just wanted to give a quick note about where I got to with upgrading it, and some notes if anyone wants to take over, since I likely won't have time to push this forward while I'm away. The TLDR is that plugins are a pain... There are 3 main areas that need dealing with before we can upgrade Redmine: code changes, db migration testing, and plugin compatibility. For the code changes, I've finished this. At [1] you'll find a set of branches containing rebased code for each of the Redmine version branches. This will enable us to migrate up through 3.0, 3.1 etc. For the db:migrate testing, I've run db:migrate with a recent backup of the production DB, on each of those branches, using psql 9.6. and ruby 2.1 (I couldn't get 2.0, which is on the Redmine box, to install on my laptop for some reason). No issues found, all migrations are fine. Plugins is where we hit some issues. Firstly, Redmine Backlogs has no compatibility above 2.X, so we'll have to drop it. I don't *think* anyone is actually using the backlog feature, but we do need the Release field it provides. We can either add this as a custom field (requiring updates to our automation) or create a small new plugin that replicates just this bit of functionality. Either way, some work is required. All other plugins appear to migrate fine, although things like GitHub auth can't be tested since they involve redirecting to the real site - there are no code errors at least. I have updated the submodule commits in my branches, where needed (lightbox2 has a bunch of versions). We have requests for two new plugins as well: * Marek - Question Plugin I believe this is http://www.redmine.org/projects/redmine/wiki/PluginQuestion but that hasn't been updated in a long time. I haven't tried it yet, but I'd be surprised if it works out of the box for Redmine 3. I don't see anything similar in the 3.4.3-compatible plugin list [2], so it may be necessary to get our hand dirty if we want this. * Walden - Kanban plugin https://github.com/edavis10/redmine_kanban - Same problem (both were developed by the same person, who shut down his efforts in 2013). Not updated since 2011 gives me little hope here... http://www.redmine.org/plugins/redhopper may be an alternative, seems maintained. There's also http://www.redmine.org/plugins/scrum-plugin but that seems overkill (but could be a replacement for Backlogs, if we want it). So, the outstanding tasks are: * Resolve the Release field we need from the defunct Backlogs plugin * (optional) Find a Questions plugin and test it (or write one) * (optional) Test one of the kanban plugins If someone wants to volunteer to fix the Release field problem, I can do the migration very easily one evening. I would guess an hour's downtime is enough, given I've done all the rebasing already. [1] https://github.com/GregSutcliffe/redmine/branches/active [2] http://www.redmine.org/plugins?page=17&sort=&utf8=%E2%9C%93&v=3.4 Greg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [foreman-dev] Kanban tools and redmine
On 28/11/17 21:29, Walden Raines wrote: > Hey, > > With several teams moving to kanban style tools for the visualization of > tasks I'm wondering if anyone has tried redmine's PluginKanban [1]. Haven't tried it, yet :). Performance would be good to find out about (Redmine Backlogs was *awful* for that), and also what versions of Redmine it supports (can't just see that info). I need to do an update for the list about the redmine status, so let me include this on that. Greg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [foreman-dev] Proposal: Foreman 1.18 = 2.0
On 29/11/17 10:45, Lukas Zapletal wrote: > Oh no, *everyone* is talking features. :-) This has really nothing to > do with features, because that can easily fall into "neverending" > category of what's big enough change or not. Well, *technically* we use SemVer (I know, I know...). For that, while features play a part, for me it's more about correctly calling out breaking changes. So if we're every going to deprecate a bunch of stuff, then we should call *that* 2.0. Otherwise it's just grandstanding ;) *Technically* we should be including the internal plugin API in our SemVer and bumping the major version every time plugins need to update... but that might get silly :P Greg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [foreman-dev] [RFC] Deprecate and move Github RFC repo content
On 29/11/17 08:47, Daniel Lobato Garcia wrote: > If it helps, I think > https://github.com/blog/2471-introducing-team-discussions looks also > like a good tool for these kind of discussions, without any need for > a moderator. The discussions are restricted to people in the GitHub > team. TLDR: -1 to this from me, I'm afraid. Let me explain. Firstly, we have to ask if this is a *replacement* for other discussions (i.e. dev-list), which I don't think you're proposing, or in-addition-to dev-list. I'll cover both, just to be complete. If it's an *additional* channel, then it will die. This is exactly what happened to the RFC repo the first time - we added an extra place to discuss things, the discussion fragmented, and then the network effect dragged all the discussion back to the dev-list. In addition, it's *even* more fragmented than the RFC repo, because it's per-team - and we have 63 teams. Yes, there's a "members" team, but even that only has 56 people in it (the org has 71, so something is out of line there). Limiting discussion to a single team means many more places to check if you want to know what's being discussed (but aren't already a part of the discussion). It's also worse than RFC repo in the sense that it still requires a GitHub account to participate - but now you *also* have to be in the team too. It does respect team structure, but we don't currently nest teams, and propagating discussions between child teams (eg plugins) looks awkward. That means we get into small, silo'ed discussions that don't get enough feedback from the wider community. That's dangerous echo-chamber / groupthink ground. On the other hand, if it's a *replacement* for dev-list (bear with me here :P), then I don't see anything here which is better than the *other* replacement for dev-list on the table (that's Discourse, which may happen looking at the current poll). There we *centralise* the discussion instead of fragmenting it, but keep the wiki-like powers, can use @group notifications to alert people, and users can join in too if they wish. As a *replacement*, team discussions thus feels inferior. Either way, I'm not a fan. This is a case of knowing the purpose of your communication channels and picking *one* way to handle it that suits the purpose. Having >1 just fragments everything (I learned that the hard way with the RFC repo, sadly). At the very least, I'd ask that we finish sorting out Discourse before we start on "communication changes, round 2" - we may find the new tooling should be part of that process. On 29/11/17 08:55, Lukas Zapletal wrote: > Greg, can you turn it on in RFC repo so we can test this? If this > fails, we can move to wiki and deprecate that repo. It's not per repo, it's per team, and GitHub has already enabled it across the entire site. It can't be disabled as far as I can see, so you can try it in any team you're a member of. example: https://github.com/orgs/theforeman/teams/discovery/discussions Greg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [foreman-dev] Proposal: Foreman 1.18 = 2.0
Given 1.17 will have: * vertical nav * rails 5.X I think this is a good candidate, if we're ever going to do it. It's also a good chance to put the woes of 1.16 behind us :) 1.17 hasn't been branched, but it's soon. If we're going to do this, we'll need to decide what should be deprecated. Greg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [foreman-dev] Missing github issues features (no migration)
On 29/11/17 09:33, Lukas Zapletal wrote: > Or maybe I miss the main reason why we are not using Github issues at > all? As you said, the last time we evaluated it, it simply wasn't suitable. The situation is more comparable now, however (in addition to BZ link and private issues) I think we would also lose flexibility. In the the last week or so, Marek and Walden have both proposed new plugins that could be added to our Redmine - not possible if we go to GH, we'd be stuck with waiting for them to implement new features (and in my experience that's not fast at all). That's always the downside of going proprietary over open source ;) > I like github integration with PRs, speed and good reliability (only > few blackouts per year) and also new features like projects. On the > other hand, it's full commitment to something not under our control > (today we can easily move our git somewhere else, but we still loose > all PRs). Side note: Actually the PR data is accessible over the API, and I have *all* of it in a MySQL DB. Yes, that's a lot of data - once I learn more about data analysis (studying R at the moment :P) I will be doing things with it. > This email is just to discuss possibilities, I know that migration > to Github would be painful and even too expensive or perhaps > technically not doable (how to migrate so many tickets). It's a pitty > that github is now getting features it really needed. I think that's the key point. There's no doubt we *could* make GH Issues fit our workflow (or any other bugtracker) - but the effort to migrate 20,000+ Redmine issues to multiple repos, as well as change all the automation, is more than likely not worth it. There needs to be a *huge* win for moving to GH Issues to make it happen, and I'm only seeing side-grades and incremental stuff, I'm afraid. > I also really like gitlab which is packed with super nice features, > theoretically migration to something like that would be easier (open > source). On the other hand, we'd need to host this and one thing is > having redmine down for an hour, different thing is inability to > push. But this is definitely a possibility, we also have some know > how already running our internal instance. I'd be +1 for GitLab-for-everything, assuming we can figure out some reliablity, as you say. Maybe using Gitlab.com is an option. But *wow* that is a lot of work :D Greg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [foreman-dev] Discourse - next steps / actions
On 24/11/17 20:34, Greg Sutcliffe wrote: >> I assume there would be an easy way of subscribing to those tags >> via RSS or email. > > Indeed there is, you can add ".rss" to any category, topic, or tag.. Ugh, writing-emails-when-tired-- Forgot to add, email notifies for a tag are available from your user settings, just the same as for categories, so yes both RSS and email are possible. Greg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [foreman-dev] Discourse - next steps / actions
On 24/11/17 08:56, Lukas Zapletal wrote: > Although I prefer to only migrate users list, if we decide to migrate > both I would actually like to see foreman-announce to be migrated as > well. We previously had issues sending plugin announcements into this > low-volume list, it's a chance to change this and split it into > announce-core and announce-plugins or something like that. Completely agree. I'd like to see more use of whatever "announce channel" we end up going with - even if that's keeping the announce list and giving more people rights on it. > I assume there would be an easy way of subscribing to those tags via > RSS or email. Indeed there is, you can add ".rss" to any category, topic, or tag - we don't have an "announcement" tag yet, so here's an example for the "discussion" tag: https://community.theforeman.org/tags/discussion.rss Greg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
[foreman-dev] Discourse - next steps / actions
Hi all, I'll try to keep this brief, at least by my standards :) Firstly, I think it's clear that the discussion is leaning towards implementing Discourse for at least one, and possibly both, of the mailing lists. Many people have contributed - I'd like to thank them all for keeping this from descending into a flamewar :) We do need to give the users list a little longer for feedback (it's only been a week), but I think here we can start to talk about the migration planning. Since we all (or most?) need to start getting used to Discourse, I've written up a draft migration plan there: https://community.theforeman.org/t/draft-migration-plan-theoretical/7550 I've just updated it to reflect the latest discussions. No doubt I have missed something though, so I've made it into a wiki post - feel free to edit with suggestions. There are two things I'd like to get input from people on: # Moderators I need a small team of moderators to deal with running the forum. I don't expect it to take up much time, but it is important that more people than just me know how things work. 3-4 people (including me) is probably enough to start with. So, volunteers needed! Don't make me start picking on people :) # Choice of lists to migrate As above, we have to decide if we migrate both lists or just one. I see significant benefits on having everyone on the same platform (top 2 - the @groups feature is very useful for discussions, and the discoverability of dev discussions for users helps them to get involved and grow our dev community). However, I know others are more cautious than I. Again, since we'll all likely be using Discourse in some capacity, I've gone ahead and created a poll on Discourse for us. Please do leave your feedback! Votes by email-response (here or on Discourse) are of course acceptable for those allergic to UIs, I will add them in ;) https://community.theforeman.org/t/poll-which-lists-should-migrate-to-discourse/7598 I've not covered foreman-announce - we use this so infrequently, and posting rights are heavily restricted, so I think we can decide what to do with it later. Hang in there, we're getting to the fun bit! :) Greg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [foreman-dev] CDN for the theforeman.org
On 20/11/17 10:08, Lukas Zapletal wrote: > Great, thanks. Before moving on, I'd check if yum/deb accepts these > kind of certificates. I *think* so, but I've heard from security guys > they don't like these certs at all :-) Thanks for the heads up, good to know. I believe Fastly is used by the Debian repos themselves, so I *think* it's OK, but we can check. We can always choose not to use their certificate if we want, we have LetsEncrypt setup on that node anyway... Evgeni and I will take a look at this today - Neil, maybe I'll ping you later in the week if we get stuck :) Greg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
[foreman-dev] CDN for the theforeman.org
Hi all, I've signed the contact with our newest sponsor, Fastly, and we now have a CDN available for us to use on our web host. This comes with a single wildcard certificate, so we should be able to use it for all the vhosts on there (yum.tf, deb.tf, etc) Being entirely honest, I've never set up a CDN before though, so do we have anyone in the community who has? BTW, big thanks to Evgeni (Zhenech) for his help in getting this sorted! Greg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [foreman-dev] Regular Foreman-core issue triage?
On 16/11/17 11:51, Greg Sutcliffe wrote: > I've just finished rebasing our Redmine patches onto each of the stable > branches in the upstream repo (see [1]). Next up is testing the DB > migrates correctly, and then I can add the question plugin Marek > mentioned as part of the upgrade. Links help :facepalm: [1] https://github.com/GregSutcliffe/redmine/branches/yours There's more to say on this but it's derailing the triage discussion, I'll start a new thread for that. Greg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [foreman-dev] Regular Foreman-core issue triage?
On 16/11/17 11:23, Ivan Necas wrote: > +0, or at least not relying on it as the only way the triage happens. > > +1 for resolving the needinfo feature in redmine: the triage mtg has bigger > potential with it I've just finished rebasing our Redmine patches onto each of the stable branches in the upstream repo (see [1]). Next up is testing the DB migrates correctly, and then I can add the question plugin Marek mentioned as part of the upgrade. Greg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [foreman-dev] Discourse summary week 2 (ish) - inbound email
> I will update the direct-category and reply-to addresses (the
> foreman.discourse+(token)@gmail.com one) to be correct later today,
> but be aware it will break reply-to addresses in existing mails -
> sorry, unavoidable but entirely worthwhile.
Quick update on the email record stuff. These are now changed, you can
use these email address to post topics:
Support - us...@community.theforeman.org
Development - d...@community.theforeman.org
Test Area - t...@community.theforeman.org
*Testers - update your addressbooks!*
Any other addresses will result in a bounce from Discourse.
"nore...@community.theforeman.org" will bounce if it's the only address
in the headers, but should be accepted if it's a reply-all to an
existing post (that works for me in my tests).
Reply-to should now look like:
reply+%{reply_key}@community.theforeman.org
Which is much nicer than the Gmail account, which we're now not using
that at all. I'll decommission the Gmail account in a few days once I'm
sure this is all fine. Thanks for your patience through the testing.
Greg
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Re: [foreman-dev] Discourse summary week 2 (ish)
On 15/11/17 13:58, Lukas Zapletal wrote: > I AM STRONGLY AGAINST *MIGRATING* OUR MAILING LISTS TO ANY KIND OF > FORUM. I have included your opinion in both summaries. As a long standing member of the community, your vote does carry some weight - but shouting doesn't get you an extra one, and makes it appear like you're trying to drown out the debate (which I'm sure you don't intend). If however you feel you've been misrepresented in either of my summaries in some way, please let me know so I can correct that. > You do not have blessing. You gathered how many opinions? Two dozens? > How many of us are subscribed here? No one decides "blessing" or lack of it unilaterally, not me, or you. The community decides, and current feedback suggests far more in *cautious* favour than against - certainly enough to continue the discussion. One thing I have not yet done is post how I see the migration actually happening *if* we choose to do it. That may help alleviate fears for some, so I will try to get that posted shortly. My view of that process won't include a side-by-side site for reasons I already expressed to Ivan earlier. Again, this is all very much *if*, please don't assume this is already decided. > You gathered how many opinions? Two dozens? How many of us are > subscribed here? 670 addresses according to Google Groups, but I know that's not what you mean :) As with all our discussions, we can only count the opinions that have actually been stated. We don't wait forever on any decision, and we frequently take action on 5 votes or less. As with other large debates we've had in the past, I'm being quite reserved with pacing this debate, *precisely* because I know how intrusive it is. I'm spending some of my time trying to convince those who haven't said anything yet to contribute (even if they give it a -1) so that we can be more sure of our final decision, but for sure we *will* have to take a decision at some point. It's worth saying again, no final decisions have been taken, this is still a consultation for now - but we *do* need to consult with the users too. It's a far larger community, and I hope we'll get a nice collection of opinions from them to look through. Greg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[foreman-dev] Discourse summary week 2 (ish)
Slightly less than one week, but I wanted to update you all ahead of the demo tomorrow. TLDR - still positive, users incoming, a few features added, mixed reports on list-mode, some comments from the Chef community at the end. # Current data: I now see about ~20 people who've been onto the UI for a look around. One new comment from Marek after last week's summary. So that's 3 in favour, 4 cautious, 1 against, and 12 who presumably don't mind too much. I do have 3 more "in favour" from people privately, but I can't count them yet, obviously (come on ppl, just post the vote already!). No further concern has been raised, but it does look like people may favour a potential users/dev split. Since we have to ask the users community at some point anyway, and we've been testing for a few weeks, I plan to open this up to the users community for testing during tomorrows demo. This is still part of the "should we do this?" discussion, before we have the "how will we do this?" discussion, and I'll be making that very clear to -users. # Changes this week: * Wrote a bunch of docs on FAQ, email mode etc, for new testers * Added some proper categories * Added a "topic template" to the Support category, give it a try * Added the Events plugin and enabled an Events category * check out the Agenda view on that category, date sorted, nice * Also try adding .rss to that category for a feed * Proper MX record & Postfix handler This last point is nice, makes inbound email instant in the UI (and only 5mins till it's in your inbox, down from 15 last week). Also means we can add inbound addresses for any category without altering DNS mailforwards. I will update the direct-category and reply-to addresses (the foreman.discourse+(token)@gmail.com one) to be correct later today, but be aware it will break reply-to addresses in existing mails - sorry, unavoidable but entirely worthwhile. # On mailing list mode More mailing list mode testing has been done this week, thanks to those involved. I think we have enough data to say that *most* of the functionality of a list is there: * Email inbound & outbound (much faster now, not polling Gmail) * Proper threading (as per last week, no change) * Attachments (only tried a JPEG, seems fine in both UI and HTML email) A few things are less good though: * GPG signatures (but that doesn't work in Groups either) * Following highly-branched discussions[1] * Reply quoting / style We did discuss the quantity of quoted text in the outbound mails for some time, with lots of opinions on the ideal amount of quoted text. Whether this is a dealbreaker is down to individual preference, I think - I prefer small quotes in my mail, others prefer larger amounts. We also discussed following complex threads in the UI, but it seems that these are not frequent (less < 5 highly branched discussions on -dev in the last few months). I posted some analysis in [1]. Overall I think it's clear that it's never going to be a 1:1 replacement for a list - but then, that was always the point. The question is whether people feel the tradeoff is worthwhile and/or the impact is minimal. # Researching other migrations of this type Since we spoke a bit about user/dev split, migration, trials etc, I thought I'd do a little research. I reached out to the Chef community[2], who migrated to Discourse about 2 years ago for their thoughts. My assumption is that we have a similar userbase (we're both in the cfgmgmt space after all). Here's what they said: Nathen Harvey wrote: > I’d say we are generally happy with Discourse. We were on a really > old platform, sympa, before migrating. Discourse has served us much > better. > > There is always resistance to change and the change to discourse was > certainly not immune to that change. > > Discourse is really meant to be an online discussion forum which > makes it quite different from a mailing list. Many people still want > full mailing list capabilities and can be somewhat frustrated or > overwhelmed by the options available in discourse. > > Would we do the migration again knowing what we know now? I say > **yes**! Noah Kantrowitz wrote (he wrote a huge reply, so forgive the editing): > ... I think the majority of that population has come around to > liking it as it is more discoverable than the old list/process and > feels more immediate. > To reiterate Nathen’s point, Discourse is definitely not a mailing > list ... The moderation tools are simultaneously worlds better than a > normal mailing list (thanks to the heritage as forum software) but > also a lot more opaque. Overall it’s net positive, but very much not > exclusively positive. > I’ve not seen anything better out there so for now I would agree that > if given the option again, it would still be the thing to pick This is in line with my own views - we won't make everyone happy with this, but it is worthwhile. Interestingly, they also kept a chef-dev mailing list alongside Discourse. I will inve
Re: [foreman-dev] [RFC] Deprecate and move Github RFC repo content
+1 to moving them to the Redmine wiki. The RFC repo was a good experiment but handled badly (at least some of the blame for that is on me). At this point I don't think it's possible to rescue it. On 15/11/17 10:52, Sean O'Keeffe wrote: > Without wanting to hijack this thread... I think this is actually one of > the areas Discourse can benefit us, generally as a community I think were > not very good at making a decision after a discussion. I think some of the > features it seems to provide (voting system) could help with that. Clearly I'm going to +1 that comment too ;) - the other really useful thing is the per-thread analytics you can get about views, top links, etc. Greg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [foreman-dev] Regular Foreman-core issue triage?
On 15/11/17 07:42, Tomer Brisker wrote: > One concern though is the amount of time it would take We could time-limit it to one hour, and start with "New" issues each time, sorted by oldest first. That way anything we don't get to one week would be present the next week. That's still better than we have today, and as we improve we might get on top of it. Greg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[foreman-dev] New sponsor slave & Reclaiming a rackspace slave
Hi all, NETWAYS have sponsored us a new 4Gb / 4cpu slave which is now up and running and processing jobs in Jenkins. Thanks guys! I'd like to use this to turn off one of the 4/4 rackspace slaves - that's means net-no-change to CI, but would avoid the small amount of over-spend we currently see in the Rackspace billing. If there's budget space, I might instead replace the 4/4 node with a 2/2 node and use it for metrics - I'd like to run logstash for the webnode so we can do better analytics, but at ~3 GB of logs per day, it needs to be in the same datacentre. More slaves are incoming by the way, as is the webnode's CDN. Watch this space. Greg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [foreman-dev] Plugin gems with a single author - redux
On 10/11/17 15:20, Ewoud Kohl van Wijngaarden wrote: > On Fri, Nov 10, 2017 at 02:02:10PM +0000, Greg Sutcliffe wrote: >> To make this a more "official" policy, I've created a "Foreman" account >> on Rubygems, and the user can be added >> to any gem we keep on our namespace. This should minimize any issues >> when transferring gems to new owners. > > For what it's worth: it'd be good if this was rubyg...@theforeman.org, > even if it's still stored on gmail. That way you can easily change it as > long as you own the domain. Agreed. Ohad is away (he controls the DNS domain), and I wanted to get it done while I was thinking about it. I'll get that alias sorted when he's back. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
[foreman-dev] Re: Plugin gems with a single author - redux
On 10/11/17 14:02, Greg Sutcliffe wrote: > To make this a more "official" policy, I've created a "Foreman" account > on Rubygems, and the user can be added > to any gem we keep on our namespace. This should minimize any issues > when transferring gems to new owners. That user is now added to every gem I have access to. Feel free to do the same with your own ;) Greg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [foreman-dev] Plugin gems with a single author - redux
On 10/11/17 14:23, Ewoud Kohl van Wijngaarden wrote: > > I like this. What are the opinions on deploying gems through Travis like > voxpupuli does? > > https://docs.travis-ci.com/user/deployment/rubygems/ > > tl;dr: on tags it can deploy the gem to rubygems. It standardizes the > deploy process and you're sure that any gem has a tag and vice versa. I was about to suggest *exactly* this. Add the gems to a bot, let the bot handle pushing new versions. Can be automated from the Git so we don't even need any other authors on a gem (provided the access to the bot account is properly shared for yanking etc). Thoughts everyone? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[foreman-dev] Plugin gems with a single author - redux
Hi all, A few months ago we added a policy that required 2 gem authors per plugin. We did, however struggle to actually get two authors on some plugins. To make this a more "official" policy, I've created a "Foreman" account on Rubygems, and the user can be added to any gem we keep on our namespace. This should minimize any issues when transferring gems to new owners. The account has a recovery email of my RedHat address, which means it can be recovered even if I get hit by a bus (because my superiors can open it). I will also revive the discussion about sharing infra passwords with appropriate security ;) Unless anyone has any strong objections, I'll send a PR for review to make adding this owner an official policy for our gems. Greg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[foreman-dev] CfgMgmtCamp 2018 tickets are available
Hi all, Quick heads up, if you're looking at coming to CfgMgmtCamp in February, then the first slice of tickets are now available (and you do need one - they're free but venue space is limited). I've got mine ;) http://cfgmgmtcamp.eu/index.html#registration Greg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[foreman-dev] Discourse - summary of week 1
Hi all, If you've been avoiding the Discourse mega-thread because you're super busy, I hope this summary will be useful. I'll keep it short(ish) and still represent eveyone accurately (I hope). TLDR: cautiously positive overall, some great debate, next steps at the end of this mail Some stats so far: * 14 people have recovered password & logged in * 8 topics, 41 posts to Testing Area * 218 emails sent (that escalated fast, but can do 50k/month for free) * For the foreman-dev discussion: * 8 people involved * 35 replies (20 mine) So that's 7 people who've tried the UI but haven't commented yet, and a whole load more who haven't looked yet. On the discussion, I see (I hope this is fair!): * 3 in favour (myself, Eric, Neil) * 2 cautious (Martin, Ewoud) * 1 cautious, with a change to implementation (Ivan) * 1 against, countering with another solution (Lukas) * 1 neutral, just asking a question (Andrew) Eric is in favour of better communication tools. Neil supports the argument that there are users being turned away by mailing lists. Ewoud made the point that sometimes we have to accept changes to workflow to benefit the community. Martin & Ewoud both made good points about plain email being second class. The initial STMP provider was causing issues, we've moved to Mailgun and all seems fine with email now, see [1] for a threaded Mutt example. Lukas was clear that he's against a forum, and proposed a move to GNU Mailman plus Hyperkitty archive viewer. There was some good debate about the features/benefits/drawbacks of forums vs mailing lists here, so I encourage you to read those posts if you're undecided. Ivan seemed happier to try the forum out, but proposes running side-by-side with the mailing list for a trial period. My concern here was how to construct such a fair trial - again, worth a read. He also suggested using a forum for -users and a list for -dev. I agreed that's an option, but ideally we'd have everyone on the same platform. # What next? Most of the pushback seems to be on mailing list mode (entirely fair) but the root cause for that has been identified and fixed (it wasn't Discourse). Mailing list mode really does feel the same to me as Google Groups now (there's even a List-ID header to filter on), and I hope that feeling will be the same for others. Overall there seems enough support to working on this, but we have no need to rush to a conclusion. While we continue tests, I will now spend a little time on styling and setting it up to look like how we might *actually* use it: * I've changed the default view back to "Categories" from "Latest" * I think it's more informative for newcomers, but let me know your preference. * The imported lists are locked (view-only) so that we don't give the idea that posts here go back to the mailing lists. I'll also make: * A "Support" category (i.e foreman-users-alike) * A "Development" category (i.e. foreman-dev-alike) * An "Events" category for demos, conferences etc. * These will get inbound email addresses once Ohad is back next week. * I'll also try adding a template to the Support category, since templated posts was something that came up in an offline discussion. Testing Area will stay, it may as well for now. Feel free to play around in any of the boards. Other suggestions for things people would like to try are welcome! Discourse has many plugins[2] so I *may* try adding a few that could be useful. I don't want UI clutter, but integration with other systems is often useful. If you browse and see any good ones, let me know. We do need more traffic. Those who haven't activated their account yet, please do! Testing of @mentions, joining groups and using @group mentions, and trying the templates (once done) is especially welcome. [1] https://gist.github.com/ekohl/60f3b5bdc6559800835b9f2ea0df13c1 [2] https://meta.discourse.org/c/plugin -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [foreman-dev] Proposal: Move Foreman Jenkins Jobs to foreman-ci repository
On 09/11/17 14:25, Ewoud Kohl van Wijngaarden wrote: >> If a separate repository, would it not be as simple as adding a git >> clone? > > Possibly, I don't have that much insight into the entire deployment > flow. Hence my preference of making small changes since our backlog is > big enough already. Of course if you're willing to take it on then be my > guest. Currently it's a Jenkins Job [1] that notices a change in the upstream repo, and deploys it to the puppetmaster. Should be trivial enough to make the changes you want there - adding a git submodule to the infra repo might "just work", looking at it. [1] http://ci.theforeman.org/job/deploy_puppet/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [foreman-dev] Propsing a move from Google Groups to Discourse
On 08/11/17 17:01, Ivan Necas wrote: > And, if we meet in some time (let's say 6 months from the kick off) > and look at the numbers, I think it would be much easier discussion > if we should ditch the list or not. Additionally, we would have 6 > months of hands on experience with Discourse. I'm going to assume we're talking about side-by-side for a single channel (i.e the users list). I'll focus on that, but I remain open to the option of running -dev on a list and -users on a forum, we can make that work. Still not my top choice, but doable. So, I'm all for following the data - in fact I'm actually studying Data Science at the moment in my spare time so I can be better at this for our community metrics in general (this course [1], good fun). What I think you're proposing is that we measure the amount of activity on both platforms after 6 months, and then use that as an indicator of how much people *like* each platform. The problem is that this experiment contains both systemic bais and a confounding variable. Firstly, the systemic bias: people will stay where the conversation is (i.e. the network effect). Unless everyone moves, no-one does. If we had zero users on both platforms at the start, this could probably be accounted for, but that's not the case. Secondly, the counfounding variable (nemesis of all data scientists). You're suggesting that "amount of activity" on a given platform (X) can be used to infer "willingness to use" that platform (Y). But this doesn't account for the procrastination problem (there are studies, I picked a couple [2,3]). People don't change if they don't *have* to, however much better the alternative is. So there's a variable affecting X but not Y that we can't account for, which means we can't use it for inference. > I'm not suggesting 100% agreement, on the other hand I'm serious > about listening carefully to the people that actually ARE active in > the community. 100% agree with that, that's exactly what this thread is for. I'll post that summary I mentioned shortly to try and loop some more voices in. Cheers, Greg [1] https://www.coursera.org/specializations/jhu-data-science [2] Opt-in vs opt-out organ donation - much higher donation rate with opt-out. People could *save lives* by filling out a form, and they don't. https://bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12916-014-0131-4 [3] Electricity costs. 14 million houses in the UK could be saving £200 per year (2016 data), but they don't switch. UK is actually considerating putting automatic tariff switching into law because people are so bad at this. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/household-energy-savings-through-switching-supporting-evidence/many-households-could-save-around-200-per-year-through-switching-energy-supplier-basis-for-claim -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [foreman-dev] Regular Foreman-core issue triage?
On 08/11/17 16:47, Eric D Helms wrote: [tons of useful stuff] Thanks Eric! I think that format will work for us too, might take a little practice. We'll need volunteers to be the runner, ofc ;) On 09/11/17 07:03, Marek Hulan wrote: > I'd join regularly, after few years for which I receive all > notifications from redmine, I can confirm there are bugs without much > attention. > > If we won't have representatives from all areas, we might need some > tooling to ping people in redmine tickets. Again, after few years, I can > tell that mentioning name in comment does not always work. There used to > be a question plugin which works similarly as needinfo in BZ. Perhaps we > could install it? http://www.redmine.org/projects/redmine/wiki/PluginQuestion is what you're referring to right? Looks nice, I can look into adding it - some Redmine work is definitely on my short-term todo list anyway. > Thanks Greg for bringing this up Still looking for suggested time slots. Perhaps I should create a poll? Greg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [foreman-dev] Propsing a move from Google Groups to Discourse
Another update on this, almost there :) Threading now apears entirely functional. Ewoud and I ran a private test using Mailgun last night (so as not to spam everyone in case it was still broken). As you can see, in this Gist, it appears to be working in Mutt: https://gist.github.com/ekohl/60f3b5bdc6559800835b9f2ea0df13c1 Email support now feels pretty much the same to what we have today. There's even a List-ID in the headers to filter on. I've also reduced the email send delay to 5 mins, and I'm waiting for Ohad to set up an MX record for me so we can handle inbound mail directly. That will bring us from 15mins (5 min polling + 10 min delay) down to just 5 min, which is acceptable I think. I'll update again once I have the MX record. Only Ohad can do this, so my hands are tied. Greg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
[foreman-dev] Regular Foreman-core issue triage?
So on IRC the idea of a regular issue triage for core issues in redmine came up, and I think it's a pretty good idea. I think we'd want to do this on a public stream (but recorded, I think), and then anyone interested can join. We'd need a minimum number of people involved to make it work, I guess we're looking at anyone with commit / interest in foreman core itself. Proxy, plugins (and possibly the installer) are out of scope, at least to start with. Is anyone interested in participating in this? When should we hold it? I'm guessing around lunch-time GMT if we want maximum coverage, or we could alternate EMEA-friendly/US-East-friendly time slots? Avoid Thursday if you can as demos and other recorded content tend to happen then ;) Greg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [foreman-dev] Abandoned plugins under theforeman github org
On 08/11/17 11:12, Ewoud Kohl van Wijngaarden wrote: > +1 on just marking it in README and in the github description. +1 from me too. I can make those changes as an Org owner if need be. Greg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [foreman-dev] Proposal: Move Foreman Jenkins Jobs to foreman-ci repository
On 08/11/17 12:35, Eric D Helms wrote: > All, > > I brought this idea up in a separate thread, but want to formalize it into > it's own direct proposal. As of today, the Jenkins Job (JJB) configurations > live buried inside the foreman-infra repository. I believe this makes them > hard to discover [1] and awkward to work with being inside a puppet module. > My proposal is: > > 1) Create foreman-ci github repository > 2) Move everything under [1] to foreman-ci > 3) Update the jenkins_job_builder puppet_module to clone this new > repository > > Further, I think this will allow CI focused work to happen and be separate > from the maintenance of our community infrastructure. +1 from me, its very hard to discover today. Greg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [foreman-dev] Propsing a move from Google Groups to Discourse
Apparently my arguments aren't coming out coherently - I think we've misunderstood each other on a couple of points... > I'm afraid the amount of time waiting doesn't have any influence on > the feeling if something is big bang or not. Sure, that's not what I was trying to say, I was just trying to give some insight into my thinking. I knew the likely reaction to a big change would be negative (in some respects), and that partial solutions would be proposed. So I spent time looking at softer alternatives and indeed some of the partial solutions already proposed, and didn't really come up with any that I thought would work. So, faced with doing something hard, I instead kept waiting to bring this up, and pushing it back, and pushing it back. I knew I was in for a tough discussion, and so I didn't do it. That's a personal failure - I saw a need in the community, and I chose not to address it. However, I don't feel it can be pushed back any longer. So here we are. > Let's not try to harsh to a decision: keep in mind that there might > be folks not repsponding just because there are other things to do > as well. Agreed, we have a good debate going, and we need time to evaluate. I will also post a summary of the discussion so far for those who are super-busy. That will probably be tomorrow, since it'll be 1 week since I opened up the Discourse instance for testing. Please do make sure I represent things fairly (I know you will :P) > Sry, but I can't resist, as the fallacy I see here is the straw-man: > you can make an argument for every change based on the fact that > people in general hate change: it's irrelevant here. Please don't :) I've not made myself clear, I think, sorry for that. I'm not using this argument to justify the move to Discourse itself, that would indeed be a strawman. A change must be justified on its own merits, and hopefully my arguments for that are clear. Here I'm *specifically* arguing against running Discourse alongside an existing list, and for that I think it's not a strawman. The usual criteria for something like this is looking at how many users migrate to the new system, despite having the old one available. However, if you put a new system alongside an existing system, you are pretty much guaranteed to have very few people move to the new one after some time. That's human psychology at work, sadly, and not any comment on the quality of either solution. People will largely choose no-effort over doing-something even when there's clear benefits (look at how many people don't switch to lower tariffs on their utility bills, even though it will save them money). Therefore, I argue that a proposal to run Discourse alongside an existing list is set up to fail from the beginning, and I would be against that. >> Both of these will suffer the resistance-to-change problem above. > > Again, not a valid argument for me. Hopefully I've clarified that argument now. > There are other communities having both forum and mailling list > (didn't have to go too far, my first attempt just hit > https://about.gitlab.com/getting-help/#discussion) Interestingly they also use Discourse & Gougle Groups (nice styling on that instance, I need to copy...), and I see that the mailing list gets ~5 mails per month, and Discourse seems to have ~250 posts per month. I won't repeat the mistake of trying to draw conclusions about *our* community (see reply about S.O. below), but it certainly seems *their* community has a strong preference. Not making any arguments here, I just find the raw data interesting. > and honestly, I'm not afraid of any community split. And if we find > ourselves using forum for everything, good for everyone. If we find > that the forum-like is not for us, we still have the backup plan. > > Anyway, having forum focused for users and mailing list on developer > discussion (for now at least) sounds like a natural split and > possible evolution. Oh absolutely, this is possible, and as I said I'm just about OK with this. It's not my preferred choice ofc, but so long as we agree to review it every so often, I can live with it. My main concern is that we still get a good interaction between the users and the devs. We can't actually ensure that today - the lists are entirely separate, so I see it as a positive that I can @mention someone to involve them in a thread (whereas today I have to ping them on IRC or forward the mail to them). That's an improvement in communication options if we move everything, especially with @group support. Basically, if we can agree some guidelines around the interaction between -dev members and Discourse then I think it can work. But as Ewoud said, I think having it all in one place is better if we can handle the change. > Do you think having discourse would actually stop people asking on > stack overflow? Why? That might be just a sign that people are used > to ask about just anything on stack overflow. A fair argument, I am making as
Re: [foreman-dev] Propsing a move from Google Groups to Discourse
Just a quick update on threading, since that's causing the most pain... On 05/11/17 18:51, Martin Bačovský wrote: > - for some reason the threads are not kept together in my Gmail and the > messages from one thread are split into multiple threads even if they seem > to have same subject. I'm not sure why, it may be because I tuned the > account settings. I'll keep testing this In short, it appears Mailjet (the SMTP service I'm using) are mangling outgoing Message-ID headers :/ Discourse has some fairly sane code around re-using the incoming message-id if a post comes in by email, or generating a sensible one if it was written in the UI. That means you'd get a header like: Message-ID: Sadly what's arriving in my inbox has a header like: Message-ID *That's* what's breaking the threading, not Discourse itself ( I think, it's hard to separate currently). Interesting the Redmine email does not do this, I see this: Message-ID: References: So Mailgun is leaving it intact. I'll see about switching over to Mailgun shortly (sadly that means I have to sort out new DKIM and SPF records, sigh), and hopefully this threading mess will go away. Greg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [foreman-dev] Propsing a move from Google Groups to Discourse
Thanks for returning to excellent debating form :) On 07/11/17 08:50, Lukas Zapletal wrote: > HyperKitty is not just a nice archive, you can easily just use mailing > list as a forum. There are other options like Gmane and others, but I > find HyperKitty as the nicest and smoothest experience. It's a lovely interface, but it's still a mailing list, and as I've said, I don't think a mailing list is a one-to-one equivalent to a forum. The features are fundamentally different, and I don't think it's possible to make both things first-class citizens (or we'd all be using that project already). > It is *the* right interface into mailing list, which some of us want > to continue using. Absolutely, it's a fantastic interface for a mailing list - but it's still a mailing list. It's time to move to a forum, in my opinion. Your opinion is valid too though, of course, I don't want to say it isn't. As Ewoud said, we can't make everyone happy, it's about figuring out what the majority of opinions are, and acting on that. > It's not just in hating Discourse, I particularly do not like big bang > migration. 100% agree, that's why I've waited over a year to propose this. I've been over and over it, and there's no other option (see below). Again, I don't do this lightly, for fun, or because I like upsetting people. It's because it's needed (in my view). I will set out the "how" of the actual migration later this week, so we can discuss how to minimize that big-bang (if we go ahead). > I would not write a single word if you'd propose installing > Discourse next to our existing communication channels. This is a classic fallacy I'm afraid - putting two services side by side and seeing if users move does not account for resistance-to-change. There are *so* many examples of people resisting a change, only to accept the change was good afterwards. Here's just *one* [1] (and then read the posts above it, some more good takes on the benefits of a forum). > We have a lot of people who subscribed for something and you are > forcing them onto something they haven't subscribed for. You're right that we haven't asked them ... yet. I plan to open up the instance to the users-list at some point soon and get their feedback too. Community buy-in is the right way to make change, I've merely started with foreman-dev because it's the more active group (and usually decisions are taken here). > And we won't read their opinion here until you do the migration and > they will see (the terrible - I think) experience. I'd prefer > slower-paced rollout with old services fading out (might not happen), We're also not reading the opinions of the people who haven't joined our community because the mailing list is a problem for them. Which group is larger? We have no way to know, so all we can do is hope they cancel out, until we can get better data (probably never). > therefore I'd like to propose other options: > > 1) Ditch Discourse and move to Fedora Hosted mailinglists with > HyperKitty interface (*) As you already know, that's -1 from me. > 2) Phased rollout: Install Discourse and keep our -user and -dev lists > on Google Groups > 3) (2) + integrating Discourse with -user list in some way (daily > summary mail to -user list) Both of these will suffer the resistance-to-change problem above. In addition this causes a split in the community, and will lead to repeat questions asked in both places, and potentially higher workload in answering questions - I'm not in favour of that when we're all already busy enough. The split in the knowledge archives is bad too. As an example of this, consider that there is a Foreman StackOverflow board [2] (this may be news to some people here). These questions look *remarkably* similar to ones asked in other places, and no-one is answering them. Splitting channels splits users, devs, knowledge and ultimately the community. Also, this may be wishful, but the fact that people choose to post on StackOverflow rather than our mailing list again shows a desire for more modern forms of interaction. > 4) Migrate only user list and keep -dev list on Google Groups Ewoud mentioned this, and I agree with him - the downsides are more than the upsides. It's splitting the community (devs not in communication with users) but is at least possible. I'm not sold that the barrier between the users and devs is worthwhile, but I'm definitely less against this than the other options. So I guess that's -0.5 compared to the other choices :) [1] https://groups.google.com/d/msg/opendatakit/gG6D4Gfwh44/YUhGedXaCAAJ [2] https://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/foreman Greg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [foreman-dev] Infra/Deployment/Platform Roadmap Update
I'll add that I'm planning to attempt the Redmine upgrades once the day-to-day tweaking of the Discourse platform calms down a little. Hoping to get started this week. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Draft v2 - Re: [foreman-dev] Propsing a move from Google Groups to Discourse
And this is what happens when you edit drafts as new messages. You don't need fancy software to break threading, just a silly mistake will do :) -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Draft v2 - Re: [foreman-dev] Propsing a move from Google Groups to Discourse
On 03/11/17 18:29, Lukas Zapletal wrote: > Greg, I absolutely understand the motivation, Good. However, we're not the only two people on this list, and over-communication is key to reducing misunderstanding in remote relationships. You know me pretty well, but others do not, so I lay my position out clearly to benefit them. > Do not put me into position of blind and angry dev who can't accept > something different or new. I have not said that. I praised your first email as a model of rational debate, proposing a alternative route with clear arguments. Following a deeper dive into the pros & cons of each solution, you now appear to be getting defensive. Let's not derail a productive discussion. > every two years amount > of programmers doubles. That is a crazy amount of newcomers. But these > new people are not idiots and some technical level is required even > for soft roles in our community. Sure, they need some technical knowledge. They need to know Git & have a GitHub account, probably a Redmine account, maybe they contributed on Transifex, maybe they even set up a development environment (non-trivial for sure). There's probably more, and thats before we consider plugins. Even adding to our calendar needs you to use GitHub. I don't think a requirement to join a mailing list proves any *further* knowledge on their part. In other words, some barriers to entry serve a purpose, but where we can remove them, we should. To do otherwise means we lose potential contributors. We should also be open to ways to help educate people with the knowledge needed to participate - I get the feeling you expect people to self-educate *before* they come to us, but my *own* history in this community started with a completely innocent email to Ohad about how to test something. We should be open to tooling that makes such teaching easier. > And we can make lists approachable very much like forums. No, I don't think we can. We've been over this in the preceeding emails. We can give an archive a shiny GUI, but fundamentally they have a different feature set, and a different target user group. Your position on Discourse is clear, and recorded here for all to see. If enough people agree with you, it won't happen. Greg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [foreman-dev] Propsing a move from Google Groups to Discourse
Update on threading... On 06/11/17 11:43, Greg Sutcliffe wrote: > Thanks for the testing help, Martin. > > * for some reason the threads are not kept together in my Gmail and the > messages from one thread are split into multiple threads even if they > seem to have same subject. I'm not sure why, it may be because I tuned > the account settings. I'll keep testing this >From the testing Martin did, and Ewoud supplying the headers he got without participating, we were able to track down what we think is happening [1]. We're trying out a hacky patch to fix it, and in a 2-email test I just tried, it looks like it's working (at least, they were threaded when the same test yesterday was not). More testing required please :) I've also opened this upstream to discuss, we'll see what they say. Discussion and patch at [2] if you want to follow along. Greg [1] https://pastebin.com/u0cDzWbW [2] https://meta.discourse.org/t/threading-for-email-only-topics-seems-broken/73523 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [foreman-dev] Re: Moving katello-packaging to foreman-packaging
On 06/11/17 13:20, Eric D Helms wrote: > An important part I missed with the migration and initial proposal is > around maintainers. I am proposing that all katello-packagers be given > commit access to foreman-packaging as part of this move. +1 from me, all good candidates :) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[foreman-dev] PrPRocessor not working correctly
Hi all, PrProcessor appears to have some issues - at the moment it's not applying labels correctly etc. See [1] for an example, labels applied manually, no mention of commit message, etc. Eric has made some changes which we think will help, but if you see other weirdness, please report it here so we can collate a list of things to watch / investigate. Greg [1] https://github.com/theforeman/foreman/pull/4980 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [foreman-dev] Propsing a move from Google Groups to Discourse
Thanks for the testing help, Martin. * for some reason the threads are not kept together in my Gmail and the messages from one thread are split into multiple threads even if they seem to have same subject. I'm not sure why, it may be because I tuned the account settings. I'll keep testing this I'm seeing this too, and it appears to be specific to the very first email that starts a thread - the rest are threaded underneath. I suspect some interaction with the Sent folder and also BCC-to-myself which I use quite liberally at the moment. I don't see this in my GitHub folder (see my other email for the relevance) but that's probably because we don't start PRs by email... > - it took about 15 min since I sent mail to the time I received it from the list (not sure what are the reaction times on the list today but this won't improve it) There's a 10 minute poll time on the incoming mail inbox, so that's likely the source of the delay. > - mails from Discourse take too much visual space - the footer saying how to unsubscribe, reply or visit the topic is included in each message. Agreed, these are all templates that can be altered. I'll leave it for now so others can see the defaults, and if we go ahead we can alter to suit our tastes. All such styling will need sorting before any migration can happen. > - "likes" are only indicated in forum notifications but not in emails. If you send '+1' to the list the like is added but no message is sent to the users (just the notification) That's true - since Likes are intended to specifically to *not* clutter the topic with just agreements, the post isn't recorded. I'll open a discussion upstream about it (maybe we can get a setting for that) but for now, it's one extra character to send "+ 1" as a workaround (I just tried that). Greg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [foreman-dev] Propsing a move from Google Groups to Discourse
Some updates from the weekend testing: * Inbound email should work properly now (community-t...@theforeman.org to start a topic) * A few people have brought up threading - I'll take this upstream once we've isolated the issue (see reply to Martin). It's actually using a fork of the GitHub email parser, hence why it looks very similar to those threads. * I've enabled tags and (for now) everyone can create tags for posts. I'm not sure we'll use these long term, but lets try it out. Tags can be made into something you're notified on in your personal settings. * I've added a bunch of groups: * katello * core * ui * packaging * infra These are self-select (you can join them from the Groups link in the hamburger menu) with the exception of infra (which is request-to-join, just for testing that function) and notify them with @group in posts. Feel fee to try it out. Neil, Eric, thanks for the positive vibes. There are indeed costs to this transition but I hope we can conclude that it's worth it. In case anyone is interested, I found some notes from another group who did exactly this, and were pleased with the result: https://groups.google.com/d/topic/opendatakit/gG6D4Gfwh44/discussion Several people have now said we need more traffic. I'd like to ask if there's a subgroup that would be prepared to use Discourse as a primary communication method for a while in order to generate this? My suggestion would be the infra team - which is mainly myself, Ewoud, Eric and Michael. It won't be the largest amount of traffic, but at least it would be some. Thoughts? Greg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [foreman-dev] Propsing a move from Google Groups to Discourse
One more thought occurred to me while I was out on the nursery pickup, so I'll drop here before I bow out for the weekend. Lukas, I think part of our disagreement is our different goals. As I highlighted in the last mail, users behave differently to devs. These days I consider myself more user than dev (when did I last contribute code), so I have a different world view. You want to protect a tried and trusted workflow, likely used by many here - that's fine. My job is to promote and develop the user community, so I see room for improvement. Here's the catch though... Our future devs, as a community, *come from* the user community. If we don't focus there, then we risk stagnating the dev community too. I won't deny this change is a larger net benefit for the user group. The case for the dev community is harder to argue. But there *is* benefit, and compared to running a list (for dev) and a forum (for users) I think the better argument is to use a forum for both. I don't expect to convince everyone, so this is going to come down to a group decision - but not for a while yet. We need to do more tests. Have a great weekend all, Greg -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [foreman-dev] Propsing a move from Google Groups to Discourse
Putting what I think is the more important part first ... On 03/11/17 13:30, Lukas Zapletal wrote: > What we are running is a mailing list here. We are running a mailing list *today*, and you're right, I want to change that. This may well be where we simply have to stop and let others join in the conversation, as I don't think either of us is going to back down ;) > It's a mailing list, we are open source developers and this is our > way of communication. It's *your* preferred way of communication, yes (and probably mine too, to be honest). Don't forecast that onto all 2500 users signed up to our lists, though - we may be in a minority. I'll quote from the Art of Community here: "Each type of contributor will have different preferences. Software developers generally prefer content to be delivered directly to them. They are typically most comfortable with mailing lists and RSS feeds (updated content from websites and online resources) and don’t like to have to refresh a browser to see if new content exists. This is part of why many (typically Western) developers don’t get on very well with forums." "Users are (typically) different. Users often love forums for their accessibility and simplicity. The conversation flow is clear, the interface is friendly, and the web browser is a familiar window to that world. Users are used to having to refresh their browser to see if updates exist. They are used to visiting many websites to find content, and they generally feel uncomfortable about technical barriers to these discussions and content. Users just don’t like to jump through hoops, particularly technical hoops that can easily trip them up." Now our users are more technical than most, but still, this has been my experince as well - users want shiny, developers do not. Honestly I'm surprised no one else has complained along with you yet :) > I understand how this is supposed to work technically, but will my > gmail.com handle this correctly? This is not how e-mail lists are > supposed to work. Will my MUA work correctly? Won't I see broken > threads because folks will introduce new shiny feature into Discourse > that does not play with plain emails anymore? I can't tell. Yeah you > set up a testing instance, but there is almost no real traffic and I > really don't know how it will look like with thousands of emails. My > MUA handles millions of them just fine. These are well documented standards. In my emails I'm seeing what I think are the right headers: List-ID: List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: Auto-Submitted: auto-generated In-Reply-To: <90019b41-28a7-babc-65da-5843e2098...@emeraldreverie.org> References: <90019b41-28a7-babc-65da-5843e2098...@emeraldreverie.org> Precedence: list That, I believe, should be sufficient, and things are getting threaded here, at least with the volume I have. As you say, we need more volume to be sure, which is *exactly* why I've made a test category for people to mess with before we take any decisions. Please try it out! We won't know unless we try, and that means at least a few people making a thread in the testing area, with mailing list mode enabled (under personal prefs > email) (Note there's a 2 min delay in creating new topics, 30s delay betweem posts to the same topic, and a 5s delay for any new post - going faster than that will mean you'll get a bounce) Also, it seems Ohad didn't get around to enabling the mailforward I requested, which is why topic creation by email was failing (yay DNS). I've re-used the dev one for now, emails to community-...@theforeman.org seem to be working fine for creating topics in the test area (i've started one to test inline replies with too, which see to be persed nicely). > Ever been to XdaDevelopers searching for Android ROM? Oh god, XDA is awful, yes, we are not going there. But the fact is we have some issues with our users list (the dev list benefits less from this, again because of that quote above, but it *does* benefit, and I don't want to run a forum *and* a list). You may not like recommended topics, but it could be of significant benefit to the users group (and actually it can be restricted by category). Like any tool, if you use it wrong its a bad thing (like XDA). > My response is not about "look here is an alternative HyperKitty". I'd > be fine with any other mailing list And there's our impasse, I want to move away from a list. But it doesn't change the choice in front of us: * do nothing * switch mailing list for minimal improvement * switch to a forum, big upheaval but potential big payoff > Yeah, feels like I am the only one. Not a good feeling, really. Give it time. I doubt you are alone, and this debate is not done. Cheers, Greg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d
Re: [foreman-dev] Propsing a move from Google Groups to Discourse
Thanks Lukas - I wanted a healthy debate, and now I've got one :) This is indeed constructive - you've forced me to go back and examine my starting post more than a few times while writing this. That's a very good thing - we need to be sure of our goal here. There's a lot of good points here, and some not so good, so let me try to return the favour of some constructive criticism. I'll start with the points addressed to me, and then move on to comparing Hyperkitty with Discourse. On 03/11/17 10:52, Lukas Zapletal wrote: > I was planning not to reply, but I can't sorry. > I am sorry Greg, I know you invested a lot in this and you have some > positive experience in the past. Don't be sorry. This is a big change thats proposed, and we're not going to make everyone 100% happy. It well may be that I'm one of the people that's not happy with what we come to agree on :) Protyping things and working to improve the community is my job. It's not time wasted if the community decides to go another way. Again, no need to be sorry. We all want a good outcome. I don't like Discourse at all. <<< > Well my experience with Discourse is > rather bad, mostly from https://forum.turris.cz/ So I'll go into your arguments for Mailman / Hyperkitty further down, but you don't really say why you dislike Discourse - is it *solely* that it's not a mailing list, or is there more to it? > I also understand you might not be fully available for couple of next > months and it's just you if I understand correctly with experience > maintaining Discourse. I would rather preferred hosted solution on a > free as in freedom service (Fedora lists). You comment makes it sound like you're not aware of this (apologies if you are), but Discourse is also open source, and the hosting is on our own infra. As for myself, I will not be entirely gone, I'm just going to be a normal community member with a dayjob for a bit. I would expect to reply to urgent things within a few hours at most, there will be a decent selection of admins & moderators, and other people will have root access as per our base Puppet users module that goes on all our servers - I wouldn't be that irresponsible with something so critical to our operation. It's also true that we'd want to migrate in the early hours of the morning when all is quiet, and I'd be available for that for sure. OK, lets talk about software :) Rather that reply to each point individually, I want to try and gather your points and then compare them, so please do correct me if I miss anything. So I think you're saying: * Mailing lists are fine * email-centric * Open / data liberation etc * indexed by Google * Hyperkitty has * Social logins * Web-based message sending In addition, playing with the Fedora instance (admittedly briefly) I also see: * Some thread metrics (days inactive / old, tags, etc) * Participants in thread * some list metrics (active posters, list activity I can't see the list from a manager's point of view, so I'm not sure what level of metrics it can provide, but in general I'm sure that its better than Google Groups. Did I get everything? I hope so, I don't want to misrepresent you. Lets start by removing the things that Discourse also does. It's open source (https://github.com/discourse/), self-hosted on our own infra, and will be indexed by Google once I make it public. It also supports all the same social logins - I just kept it to GitHub to match Redmine. So that leaves us with: * Mailing lists are fine * email-centric * Hyperkitty has * Web-based message sending * Some post & thread metrics * Tag support (presumably UI only) There is, however, an interesting conflict in your mail - you say you're happy to start threads and manage a conversation entirely in the Hyperkity UI: > I sometimes use this for lists I don't want to get into my inbox on a > daily basis and it works just fine. To start a thread, it's just a > simple link and HyperKitty will just ask you to Sign-In with one of > your existing accounts. Super fast So if I understand, you're OK with a web interface for creating / managing a conversation that you don't want in your inbox in Hyperkitty, but not happy with exactly the same workflow in Discourse? I find that hard to resolve, can you clarify? > Benefits? Mailman works great over email, it's not just some hack I disagree with the word "hack" here, I think Discourse also works fine over email. In all the testing I've done, the only thing I'm seeing is a minor issue with format=flowed URLs (and tbh not all mail clients support that either). You can set the mailing-list mode flag and it will email you everything, you need never log into the UI again. I've had that flag set for the last week, and can confirm that I was recieving everything and could reply/start threads just fine. How is this different to a mailing list? It has to be said, I do like Hyperkitty, and I agree it would be an improvement over Google Groups. However, it doe
Re: [foreman-dev] Propsing a move from Google Groups to Discourse
Quick update... A few people have been posting to the users/dev categories on Discourse, so let me quickly clarify - there is no sync Discourse -> List. Anything you post there will not make back to the lists. To help prevent that, for now I've locked those 3 categories. Admins can still post, but everyone else just has See permissions. Obviously we'll unlock that if/when we move over. Greg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: AW: [foreman-dev] Propsing a move from Google Groups to Discourse
On 02/11/17 17:46, Matthias Dellweg wrote: > Hi Greg, > so you tested the happy flow. But as a scientist i must ask you, did you check > the opposite, too? Does someone not being the author nor a member of the > mentioned > group not receive the notification? > cheers As it happens, I can answer your question after the fact. Discourse provides extensive logs on the emails it sends. We now have 10+ people activated and testing the site, and yest I can see that only myself and John were emailed. Here's a pic of the logs, email addresses redacted :) Greg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [foreman-dev] Propsing a move from Google Groups to Discourse
On 03/11/17 10:32, Lukas Zapletal wrote: > Greg, I have not interest in moving to any kind of web UI. I want to > send another millions of emails, including those "+1". I think we all > agree that any kind of migration must not disrupt way we work today - > a plain mailing-list we all know and use for decades. And I have absoluetly no interest in breaking your workflow. We're on the same side here, mostly ;) > Thanks for decreasing it. I still have concerns about the non-standard > special per-thread address way of replies which I get. Embedding a token in the reply-to is pretty standard, I've seen other projects doing it. The alternative is a token in the *body* which I think is worse. I'm hoping to get a proper wildcard mailforward in place so the reply-to is community+@theforeman.org instead of the underlying Gmail account at some point. What concerns do you have with this approach? > How do I start a new thread via email? Can I do that, can't I? Of course. Email community+t...@theforeman.org for the Testing category. If/when we go live, there will also be community+dev and community+users set up to email to - for now these are disabled so that we don't get duplicates from the list imports. Greg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [foreman-dev] Propsing a move from Google Groups to Discourse
On 02/11/17 18:35, Lukas Zapletal wrote: > Tried to reply with just few words and I am getting: > > We’re sorry, but your email message to > [“theforeman.discourse+680bec16c469f36694d1ecef341e8...@gmail.com”] > (titled Re: [TheForeman] [Testing Area] October newsletter) didn’t > work. > Reason: > Body is too short (minimum is 20 characters) > If you can correct the problem, please try again. > > I am gonna definitely hate this, can we turn this off? A reply of > "yes" is still a valid one. True enough. Of course, that can be altered (seriously, there's a setting for *everything*) but I'll give you the Discourse reason for that being 20 by default: Since Discourse is intended as web-first, the idea is that instead of "me too", "I like this", "+1" style replies, you should be encouraged to click the "Like" button instead. From a discussion viewpoint, a simple "yes", while valid, doesn't add to the *debate*, only to the weight of a previous opinion, and instead of the topic author having to *manually* count up the '+1' posts, (s)he can just look at what got the most likes. Of course, it's tricky to click a Like by email, so I've reduced it 1 character minimum for now. Please do test it again. Longer term, I hope we do move to using the UI features such as likes, polls, etc, but I accept that isn't going to happen overnight :D Greg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [foreman-dev] Propsing a move from Google Groups to Discourse
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 A quick update on some testing John Mitsch & I did today. It seems @groups support is pretty nice. We created a Katello group with John in it, and then I created a post and mentioned @katello in the text. This correct notified John by both UI and email (as per his preferences, thats confiurable ofc). In short, creating groups for plugins, packaging, UI, etc is very much possible and should work well. Greg -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- iHYEARECADYWIQT6/Mr3yf+h5OF468Tw7tE3ygrrkwUCWftNGBgcZ3JlZ0BlbWVy YWxkcmV2ZXJpZS5vcmcACgkQ8O7RN8oK65NKswCePsELYzE5f5F5Zws4tZ3MB2oe m1cAnRzsszjr/yXCiK3UVGA58uQUCmbz =9XBj -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [foreman-dev] Propsing a move from Google Groups to Discourse
I appreciate I tend to write a thousand words when pictures might do. Here's one shot from the metrics (which may or may not be accurate as it depends on the MBOX importer being correct, but you get the idea), one from the foreman-users list index, and one from the markdown version of this post (to which I added a poll... because I can). * Metrics (no, I don;t know what the y-axis is either, yet...) https://imgur.com/vpv15b1 * Foreman-users https://imgur.com/0Wetjo1 * This thread https://imgur.com/Umc3gaW Greg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [foreman-dev] Propsing a move from Google Groups to Discourse
On Wed, 2017-11-01 at 14:15 -0400, Andrew Kofink wrote: > I admit, I skimmed the prior emails (they were tl). I just wanted to > ask if discourse is searchable/is indexed from the wider internet. > I've often found relevant mailing list discussions by searching from > Google, and I really value that. I thought about this some more overnight - we're actually gaining here. We often see users quoting *old* posts which are no longer accurate because the code has moved on - with a list we can't do anything about that. With Discourse we can update or flag those posts in some way and redirect users to a better/newer one. Greg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [foreman-dev] Propsing a move from Google Groups to Discourse
That's indeed one of my aims. One common piece of Discourse wisdom is not to have too many categories, so I don't for see one per plugin - but the system also has tags which would work well in the Support category (I.e. foreman-users) A category for Infra might well make sense separate from dev discussions. I could also see this being limited by trust level. I can also see us making more use of Announcements, for events and plugin releases. Greg -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [foreman-dev] Propsing a move from Google Groups to Discourse
The site will be made public if/when we go live with it. I assume Google will index it then, I don't think it does any robots.txt stuff - certainly I'm using google to look up configuration questions on meta.discourse.org :) -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [foreman-dev] Propsing a move from Google Groups to Discourse
One more point, we're currently on a free tier of our SMTP provider, which is limited to 6k emails / month & 200 mails / day. I'm seeing if I can negotiate a free higher tier for a FOSS project, but for now, go easy on the mail testing :D Greg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [foreman-dev] Propsing a move from Google Groups to Discourse
OK, some questions I expect to come up: * Will the mailing list import be kept up to date? Yes, I plan to update it every day or two. Happily it's incremental (no 7 hour import) but sadly it's not something that's easy to automate. It's also why I've not renamed the categories yet, or fixed split-users (where a person has used more than on email address) - since the import recreates anything it can't find, we'd get duplicates. The sync is one-way, nothing done on Discourse will go back to the list, but I'd ask that you treat the list categories as read-only for now, and play around in the Test category, in case it confuses the importer. * Can I use email? Yes, entirely if you wish. The catgories will have direct in-bound email address (only the Test category has one right now), and all outgoing emails have a reply-to set. We've tested it, and things like in-line replies, URLs, and formatting seem OK. * Can I log in with GitHub (or other)? Yes, but the catch is that while the accounts are locked, GitHub login will still work (unlike using password reset) - so you may see weirdness if your account is not unlocked yet. Try it if you like though, it's enabled. If we migrate fully over, then all accounts will get unlocked and this will work fully. * Are there spam controls like Groups? Yes, and we'll actually have a lot more control over automating this. I can go into details if people want more detail * Won't it be hard to get people to update addressbooks? Yes. We can mititgate this. Firstly, we'll obviously give appropriate notice to the community - I don't expect us to migrate next week. Second, once the groups are "closed" we *could* consider redirecting mails to the Google groups addresses to Discourse, or bounce them back with an appropriate message to the user. The categories will have in- bound addresses, so they just need to update 2 addresses in their contacts. Hit me with more! Greg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
[foreman-dev] Propsing a move from Google Groups to Discourse
Hi all, As ever from me, this is long. Sorry about that, it's a habit. Here's the TL;DR: * What: move Google Groups -> Discourse * Why: https://blog.discourse.org/category/use-cases/ * Can I try? - Scroll to the end for login details So, as some of you know, I'm a big fan of the Discourse[1] forum software - I use it for another community, and it's just lovely. I've been testing it out recently with a view to using it for Foreman, and I think it's time to explain my reasoning and ask for your thoughts. # What? Firstly, the "what" - what do I want to do? Simply put, I want to migrate from Google Groups to Discourse. That means locking the groups from further emails and using Discourse for our "written" discussions. Obviosuly there's data migration that needs to happen there, but we'll get to that. Before all the die-hard mailing list fans stop reading here - please keep reading. Discourse has options to interact entirely by email. Your workflow may not be broken :) # Why? Why do I want this? The short version is "because anything is better than Google Groups", but more seriously, I think Discourse is great. The reasons are different for each of our mailing lists though, so let me break it down: ## foreman-users When it comes to supporting our users, what matters is that they can ask a question, get a reply, and feel confident in that reply. For those who do the replying, they need to be highlight and in some way rewarded for the work they do. The problem with a mailing list is that neither of these things is really achievable. If a user (new to our list, who knows no-one) gets 2 different replies, who is (s)he to trust? A forum can display user levels, and badges, making the developer reply stand out from the other new user's reply. A mailing list has nothing - and worse, the Groups API is so bad that I barely know who our mailing list regulars are (I have to webscrape it using a crawler ...) so I can reach out to them for help, questions etc. Discourse also searches for likely similar topics *while* you're typing yours. This should hopefully help users to find existing support for their issue before they make duplicate posts :) For hard-working supporters, Discourse provides automatic "trust levels" (in additional to manually promoting admins and moderators). These trust levels allow you to unlock extra powers as you participate in the community, which helps to reward the people who do help out on the boards. Gamifying? yes, but it works. It'll also help me know who to speak to when there's some swag to send out ... To make this worse (for Groups) there is a confounding of data in the users-list today - we also use it for plugin announcements, and events & CFPs, and so on. This is because making a new mailing list would have a much smaller membership, making it not suitable for purpose. Yes, you can say "hey we created a new mailing list for X, sign up!" but the reality is that people just don't. Discourse gives us the flexibility to create new boards for things as-and-when we feel the need to. Discourse also supports plugins (its a rails app), so we can look at things like templates for new support issues, and so on. It also has bots which can be used to deal with some things (I have not investigated the bots too much yet). ## foreman-dev In contrast to the -users list, which is primarily support and notifications, dev is all about discussion. Here I think we'll see a real benefit in a couple of areas. Firstly, back when we discussed how to handle RFCs, one of the criticisms of a mailing list was the lack of rich format support (markdown, images, code snippets etc) - Discourse supports all of that. Quality of discussions should improve, I hope. Discourse also has "like" buttons which can be used in place of "+1" emails, and hopefully would encourage some of the quiter voices in the community to click the like button, even when they might not have emailed a +1. There are also polling options, so taken together I *hope* this will help us to resolve discussions better than we have historically. The ability to create dedicated boards for popular plugins is also pretty nice, if we decide to go that way. ## foreman-announce This list has historically been very low traffic. On Discourse, the most useful feature for this purpose is the "global banner". This allows a single post to be show at the top of *every* page, a global pin if you like. Cleverly though, individual users can dismiss it once they've seen it - so it's not that intrusive. This would be excellent for new releases, but also CFPs etc, and would free up the announce board for more general things like plugin releases etc. ## General notes Discourse has a lot of other things going for it. Here's a few I found: * Great set of metrics and APIs which allow us to do all sorts of interesting things that I simply cannot do with Google Groups * Much better search support Private messages may be useful (although I can't really s
Re: [foreman-dev] 1.17 schedule
On Tue, 2017-10-31 at 13:11 +0100, Marek Hulán wrote: > I think the date is reasonable. Given we have 2-3 RCs per 2 weeks, we > could expect 1.17 release early next year right? Which I think is > good since we'll have time to fix potential blockers after we're back > from Christmas time off. 1.16 has obviously been a blip, but normally we have 1 RC / 2 weeks. That would put the first RC around Dec 15th, and a second at the end of the year, if there's anyone around to work on it. Allowing for slippage / potential RC3, it'll be out before Devconf, which is nice timing. Greg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [foreman-dev] Koji builder crash - days after
Hey On Mon, 2017-10-30 at 10:22 +0100, Lukas Zapletal wrote: > After several hours of outage, we were able to bring it up by > mounting the volume in a temporary VM, editing /etc/fstab and > starting new instance. Thanks for the effort, especially on a Friday! > Started new wiki page where we have this information: > > http://projects.theforeman.org/projects/foreman/wiki/KojiSetup Good idea. > There were voices on the IRC to puppetize this server, I am not > against and feel free to add this to todo. It does not make much > sense IMHO to puppetize koji setup, but things like setting up ssh > keys or basic services can be useful. That was me, and yeah, just setting up the usual base classes will mean that the infra team have access (handy if you're away) and all the boring stuff is taken care of. One area that it might also help is adding Koji into our wider backup system (I don't think we can move the Koji files backup, but the Psql backups could be moved offsite, just in case) I can try to find time for this, but I'll need my key[1] adding in that case. No promises though - as you say, it's low priority. 1 http://emeraldreverie.org/about#sshkeys Greg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [foreman-dev] Jenkins can now send email
On Thu, 2017-10-26 at 15:53 +0200, Lukas Zapletal wrote: > Ok added me into the list in the post-build action. Cool, trigger a build and see if you get an email :P Greg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [foreman-dev] Jenkins can now send email
On Thu, 2017-10-26 at 14:50 +0200, Lukas Zapletal wrote: > Greg, thanks for doing this. Now, honestly I do not understand a > single paragraph here. > > Can you show me an example JJB patch how to enable this for a plugin? > Ideally discovery, with my spam eating lzap+...@redhat.com :-) I haven't looked at what's needed in JJB yet, so this is all temporary at the moment. I made the needed change on the discovery job[1] (that is, add post-build action with no triggers), so if you go there now, you should see a Watch Job link. Try it out, let me know if it works. [1] http://ci.theforeman.org/job/test_plugin_foreman_discovery_develop/ Greg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [foreman-dev] Jenkins can now send email
On Thu, 2017-10-26 at 12:58 +0100, Greg Sutcliffe wrote: > I have enabled it, but I can't just see where to add this to my user. > Perhaps someone with better eyes can spot it. If it works it will > remove the need to update JJB so frequently (only for the permenent, > important notifications). As is always the case, I found it right after hitting send ;) So, there will be some JJB config - the job does need an "Editable Email Notification" post-build action adding. However, unless required, you can delete all the triggers - simply having the action there is enough. Once that's done, the main page of the job has a "Watch Job" link which you can use to add a notify for yourself of results from that job. One thing I'm seeing is that notifications appear to be in some way shared across jobs - adding "On failure" to job1, and then "On success"£ to job2, I see "On success" on job1. If that's more than just a visual bug, this may not be usable - in which case we can fall back on JJB config anyway. Test and feedback please :) Greg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [foreman-dev] Jenkins can now send email
Apparently Jenkins could send email before, but I was unaware of it, so sorry if I confused anyone there. In any case, the sending is a little clearer now as a result of my changes (hat tip to Eric for the info). Apparently users should also be able to create their own email notifications. From the tooltip on the config page: "Enabling watching allows individual users to add their own triggers to jobs. The list of triggers they can add is restricted by the trigger implementer. For example, most script based triggers are not allowed for users to use as a watch. Users must have READ access to the job in order to watch it. Triggers are not stored in the job itself, but as a property on the user." I have enabled it, but I can't just see where to add this to my user. Perhaps someone with better eyes can spot it. If it works it will remove the need to update JJB so frequently (only for the permenent, important notifications). Greg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
[foreman-dev] Matrix.org / IRC bridge
Hi all, Over the past week or so I've been trialling Matrix.org[1] as an alternative to my IRC client. This was partly due to my own curiosity, and partly because a few people keep suggesting Slack (my objections to Slack are, I think, well known :P). Overall I'm pretty impressed with Matrix, at least enough to ask for more testers. The rooms are "plumbed-in" to the IRC rooms, so it doesn't matter if you're on Matrix or IRC, you'll see the same content. (and not via a single account). Indeed, I've been on a Matrix client for the last week and only a few people have noticed :P. A few other good points to Matrix: * Open source (of course :P) * Federated (our channels are on the main matrix.org server, for now) * Persistent by default (for all you people without IRC bouncers) * End-to-end encrypted by default, except plublic rooms * Plenty of clients (Riot.im is nice, WeeChat plugin for CLI, etc)[2] The only downside I can see is that only registered IRC users can private-message a Matrix user - unregistered users get a polite message about need to register first. This doesn't apply to channels, only PMs. I don't feel this is too bad, registering to IRC is trivial, and most support should happen in the channels anyway. I'll stress that there is *no need* to change anything if you're happy with IRC, those channels are not going away. But if you've been itching for something a little more flashy, or just an easy way to have a persistent connection, Matrix may be of use. I'm announcing this here before I do it on -users to see if anyone wants to play / help me find issues. If you do hop on Matrix, I'm gwmngilfen:matrix.org :) [1] https://matrix.org/ [2] https://matrix.org/docs/projects/try-matrix-now.html Greg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
[foreman-dev] Jenkins can now send email
Hi all, In response to a good idea from Lzap about failed plugin builds being able to email authors, I've enabled SMTP on Jenkins. This is configured via the Email-Ext plugin [1]. The global config (SMTP auth is done) but for defaults, no triggers are currently enabled, so that no-one suddenly gets spammed by this. Each project needs its own config, added as a post-build action. Here's an example I added ro deploy_web to test: Add post-build action: Editable Email Notification Add my email to Project Recipient List Click Advanced settings Add "Always" trigger Set Send To to "Recipient List" I then rebuilt deploy_web and got the email below :) However, because this is job config, we'll need to add it to JJB to stop it being overwritten. Does anyone have a moment to look into adding it to the JJB files? Then adding authors to plugins for notifications can be a simple PR. Enjoy! Greg Forwarded Message From: jenk...@theforeman.org Reply-to: noreply...@theforeman.org To: Subject: deploy_web - Build # 1315 - Successful! Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2017 09:46:08 + (UTC) > deploy_web - Build # 1315 - Successful: > > Check console output at http://ci.theforeman.org/job/deploy_web/1315/ > to view the results. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [foreman-dev] Vendorizing or Building RPMs
On Mon, 2017-10-16 at 14:36 +0100, Greg Sutcliffe wrote: > > That said, I've not really been involved with the RPMs, so I'm unsure > if this causes a bigger headache for Yum users than Apt users. I'm > also unsure of the work required to create an SCL, but if it's non- > trivial then I'd be looking to CentOS to collaborate on a Rails SCL > for everyone to use - for just ourselves, then vendoring seems > easier. I spoke to a few people I know about this, and it seems there's not much appetite for making new SCLs. We might be able to attract contributors once it's created, but I think we should assume the effort for creating/maintaining SCLs will fall on us initially. Do we have any conclusions on this thread? It's going to matter for 1.17 which is getting closer by the day. Greg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [foreman-dev] Katello Packaging Migration to Foreman Packaging Plan Proposal
On Sun, 2017-10-22 at 21:27 -0400, Eric D Helms wrote: > > Note that this plan says nothing about changing our actual yum > repository structure. That would come later. This is just about > beginning with moving all package management to be centralized in > foreman-packaging git repository. So if I understand right, then all the packages are still hosted on the Katello side for now, and this is just a merging of the source trees? I'm fine with that - I'm still waiting on sorting a CDN for the web node, so until that's done I can't +1 something that adds bandwidth costs, but this isn't it ;) Greg -- IRC / Twitter: @gwmngilfen Diaspora: gwmngil...@joindiaspora.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [foreman-dev] Centralizing tool_belt in theforeman Github
On Fri, 2017-10-20 at 16:59 -0400, Eric D Helms wrote: > > If there are no objections, I will perform this next Wednesday or > Thursday. +1 -- IRC / Twitter: @gwmngilfen Diaspora: gwmngil...@joindiaspora.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [foreman-dev] Place to put slide decks
On Fri, 2017-10-20 at 09:32 +0200, Lukas Zapletal wrote: > Well the site Evgeni refers to is more of a consuming endpoint (PDF). > What I am looking for is a place to put OOo files. > > I can do both. Pick one and we'll review. If it looks a better fit somewhere else we can always discuss on the PR. Thanks! Greg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [foreman-dev] Rackspace ending OSS discount program - or is it? (updated)
On Thu, 2017-10-19 at 12:43 -0400, Josh Baird wrote: > RedHat won't host this stuff for the project? As of today, we have some slaves hosted on the Ovirt infra, and some applications running in a paid-for Openshift v2 account. I'm in discussions with Ovirt about increasing that capacity, and we've requested space on Openshift on v3. There may be other things possible, I'm following up on that. However the story gets yet more interesting. Today, I received this email :) Forwarded Message Hello, We apologize for any confusion yesterday’s communication may have caused. While we’re no longer accepting new applicants to the Open Source Discount (OSS) program, all existing OSS program customers will keep their credits. Rackspace is committed to open source technology, and we look forward to continuing to support you and your Open Source project. If you have any questions, please reach out to your account manager. End Message This seems to have been sent to all OSS projects at Rackspace, see http s://twitter.com/ericholscher/status/921109823671869440 for example. There's no way we were "confused" - I spoke to an Account Manager to confirm it - so this wording seems to be a fave-saving excercise. However, it's a positive for us, and I appreciate their continued support, so we won't call them on it :) So, the heat is off - but for how long? Such events are usually the start of a slow decline, and I would still be keen to move things away from Rackspace. I think the plan now should be to move the web host, Puppetmaster, and Jenkins master away from Rackspace, and use that solely for CI slaves. Then if anything happens at short notice, we lose only capacity and nothng more serious. I've already had several community members reach out to me privately, so with Rackspace staying, I'm confident we can actually increase our slave capacity for the short term. My thanks to all of them, and stay tuned for announcements once deals are agreed ;) Greg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[foreman-dev] [Event] Foreman Community Demo Items - Thu 26 Oct 3pm [BST]
Hi all Demo time! As always, have a think for items which have been completed since the last demo on 2017-10-05. There is a query that will show you items completed (i.e. marked as closed) since the last demo [2]. Please add demo items following the instructions on the agenda page [3]. I will probably talk a bit about sponsors and infra/hardware, given the Rackspace news this week, but that won't take up very much time, so submit as normal, please! If you can't be present but have something to show, add it to the agenda and let me know - I'll be happy to talk about the feature in your absence. Please do leave me enough time to familiarize myself with the content though :) [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpdRVZvx0jo [2] http://tinyurl.com/ycwd75es [3] http://projects.theforeman.org/projects/foreman/wiki/Current_Sprint_Information Cheers! -- Greg IRC: gwmngilfen -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[foreman-dev] Rackspace ending OSS discount program
Hi all, As of yesterday I received a mail from Rackspace stating that they are ending the OSS discount program at the end of Dec. I have spoken to our Rackspace Account Manager, and there's no offer of some other kind of discount - we'll need to migrate the workload, or pay for the usage. Given our heavy use of Rackspace, this is going to take some work to mitigate. Many projects are affected by this (e.g. readthedocs[1]) and are talking about it on Twitter - I'll be doing the same shortly. There's already a number of companies offering to help (notably the Open Source Labs [2]), and I'll be contacting them. However we need to decide what to ask for. I don't believe we'll find a single sponsor to cover the whole $2k that we spend at Rackspace each month. Currently on Rackspace we have: * The core infra - puppetmaster, Jenkins master, and web node * The permanent Jenkins slaves - 9 of these (by far the largest cost) * The temporary slaves spun up by BATS and then deleted * The bandwidth used by the web node - Rackspace claim 6Tb / month, but I struggle to prove that with my own stats I think each of these can be handled differently. Web node / traffic - Right now we have an offer of a sponsored CDN which I'm trying to finalize, and (separately) and offer of a mirror+bandwidth from someone else. I'm asking them to run the web node for us (instead of just a mirror), and with the CDN that should be acceptable bandwidth. Core Infra - I will ask Scaleway if we can increase our discount, and host the Puppetmaster and Jenkins master there. We also have some hosting with oVirt, that may be possible to increase. Failing that, OSL or another new sponsor might be able to cover this. Temporary slaves - if we can find someone to donate some kind of cloud account (AWS, GCE, Digitalocean, whatever) then this ought to be fixable in our JJB config - Eric, do I have that right? Permanent slaves - this is the big one, we simply don't have the compute power to replace all 9 Rackspace slaves at this time. We are lucky in that a new slave requires no access to the rest of the infra (inbound SSH only for the setup), so hopefully we can make a big push for new sponsors or upgrading the ones we have. So, I will submit the application to OSL shortly ([3] if anyone else needs it for another project), tweet out a request for help, and I will speak to our existing sponsors about more capacity. In the mean time, if anyone has any contacts or offers to make, let's hear it :) Greg [1] https://twitter.com/ericholscher/status/920396452307668992 [2] https://twitter.com/osuosl/status/920491352634269696 [3] http://osuosl.org/request-hosting/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [foreman-dev] Vendorizing or Building RPMs
On Wed, 2017-10-18 at 15:53 -0400, Eric D Helms wrote: > > How do the plugins isolate their dependent gems? i.e. is it a script > or build tool or just knowledge to grab the right gems and pop them > in? There's two forms. For gems only used by the plugin, we add them to the package as a list of deps - see [1] for an example. Where more than one gem needs a dep, we move it to a separate package that can be depended on, e.g. deface [2,3] Greg [1] https://github.com/theforeman/foreman-packaging/blob/deb/develop/pl ugins/ruby-foreman-graphite/debian/gem.list [2] https://github.com/theforeman/foreman-packaging/tree/deb/develop/pl ugins/ruby-foreman-deface [3] https://github.com/theforeman/foreman-packaging/blob/deb/develop/pl ugins/ruby-foreman-column-view/debian/control#L11 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [foreman-dev] Found In Version Katello Redmine custom field
On Wed, 2017-10-18 at 15:00 -0400, Justin Sherrill wrote: > I like this idea, and there seems to be a plugin already to do it: ht > tp://www.redmine.org/plugins/redmine_issue_templates Nice. I'll add it to my Redmine-todo list, which I hope to get back to shortly. Greg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [foreman-dev] Place to put slide decks
On Thu, 2017-10-19 at 13:46 +0200, Evgeni Golov wrote: > Why not https://github.com/theforeman/theforeman.org/tree/gh-pages/st > atic/presentations? Also a good option. I was working on the graphics repo yesterday, and I plan to add the blank presentation template there for others to use, so it was in my head. Greg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [foreman-dev] Place to put slide decks
I've been thinking the same thing. I was about to add them to the foreman-graphics repo, since that's the closest thing to a media-store we have. I'm happy to take PRs :) Greg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [foreman-dev] foreman_tasks V1 endpoint works but V2 returns 404
On Mon, 2017-10-16 at 22:15 -0700, rajesh.eras...@gmail.com wrote: > # curl --user sledge:hammer -H "Content-Type:application/json" -k htt > ps://ind2q00katello01.qa.local/foreman_tasks/api/V2/tasks/3574500b- > 0394-4a94-9f86-8ff1890ceadb I think this is a character-case issue - it's *v2* not *V2*. I can replicate the 404 using V2. Greg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [foreman-dev] Vendorizing or Building RPMs
On Sat, 2017-10-14 at 14:24 -0400, Eric D Helms wrote: > Note: This is specific to RPMs because as far as I know the Debian > process is different and uses gems directly. Please correct me and > contribute any information with respect to Debian that I miss. I > believe the Nodejs part of the email does apply to Debian. As Michael says, I think we can mostly leave Debs out, at least for now. > Node/NPM Packages ... Proposal: > Deprecate nodejs packages in favor of foreman-assets or a new RPM > foreman-node-modules that contains a source tarball of node_modules/ > packaged into a simple RPM that is used as a build dependency. This > tarball would be regenerated, and the package bumped, as dependency > updates are needed. If we go for option 2 below, then vendoring an npm install at build time (as Michael said, we do this for Debian) feels like a better option. If we go for building our own SCL, then +1 for this. > Ruby Gems > > Option 2, to vendorize, is a deviation from our prior practices in > the area of production deployment. Thus, I am reaching out to the > community to get feedback. One interesting consideration for > vendorizing is when containers are considered and having the ability > to build them using 'bundle install' versus using RPM based > installation. Vendoring hasn't (to my knowledge) caused many issues for Debian users (Michael?), and having consistent build processes makes it easier for anyone to support users on different OSs. That said, I've not really been involved with the RPMs, so I'm unsure if this causes a bigger headache for Yum users than Apt users. I'm also unsure of the work required to create an SCL, but if it's non-trivial then I'd be looking to CentOS to collaborate on a Rails SCL for everyone to use - for just ourselves, then vendoring seems easier. Greg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [foreman-dev] Availablity of yum.theforeman.org
On Fri, 2017-10-13 at 15:01 +0200, Ewoud Kohl van Wijngaarden wrote: > > I don't see why we would have timeout but I can't investigate that > because I don't have access to any monitoring. There's isn't any really (we should add that to the Infra TODO list). `dmesg` doesn't show any of the conntrack issues we had a few weeks back. The httpd error logs are ofc full of the errors caused by the welcome page. Now it's gone I'll monitor it and we'll see if anything else comes up - Dirk, do you have an example of the issue you're seeing? Greg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [foreman-dev] Redmine running slowly
And we're back. Please test extensively and report issues ;) In particular, we're now on Ruby 2.0 (up from 1.9 on Openshift) so I suspect the plugins might have issues. Any issues, please report them here and we'll take a look. I checked quickly and didn't see any errors, but I was in a hurry :P Things still to do: * Add logrotate for the production.log files * Add HTTPS (ewoud is on that) * Upgrade to latest Redmine (I'm looking into it) * Puppetize it so we can migrate more easily in future We'll monitor to see if the resources are enough, let me know if you see any issues (no, Backlogs does not count, that thing is *slow* :P) Thanks for your patience everyone. Greg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [foreman-dev] Redmine running slowly
We're ready to switch. I'll take Redmine offline in about 30mins (11.15 UK time) and we should be back up on the new host at 12 noon. Please save your work ;) Greg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [foreman-dev] Redmine running slowly
On Wed, 2017-10-11 at 21:52 +0300, Ohad Levy wrote: > > > redmine01.theforeman.org A 51.15.192.166 > > redmine01.theforeman.org 2001:bc8:4400:2300::5:e03 > > both should be resolved. Thanks Ohad. SMTP is now unblocked and confirmed working, so we're ready to switch over. As soon as I can get a timeframe from Ohad for when the DNS change can be done, I'll arrange a maintenance window. Hang in there guys, we're almost done ;) Greg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [foreman-dev] Redmine running slowly
Update on migration: http://51.15.192.166 is now live for your testing pleasure, with a copy of the DB from a few days ago. Email is currently disabled, so you can't spam anyone. There's still a few small tasks to sort out that will keep me busy, but if you want to see if you can break it, go ahead. Sadly, SMTP outbound is blocked by default on Scaleway, which I didn't realise until about 20 mins ago. I've raised a ticket to lift this so Redmine can send email, but until that's resolved we can't complete the migration. Once email is confirmed working, we'll schedule a maintenance window, where I will stop the Openshift instance and make a final DB dump. Ohad will then do a DNS switch, and as soon as it comes back you should all be good to go. Stay tuned for further updates. I'll announce the maintenance window before I start. Greg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [foreman-dev] Redmine running slowly
Things are no better today, and I'm out of patience with Openshift. I've spun up an instance on Scaleway that should be able to cope and am in the process of creating a copy of Redmine there. Once it's ready I'll stop Openshift, re-import the db and cut over the DNS. Continue to use Redmine as normal for now, I'll update when we're ready to do the final cutover. Greg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[foreman-dev] FOSDEM / CfgMgmtCamp 2018 - Call for Presentations!
Hi all, It's that time of year again - the call for presentations for our yearly conference season is now open! FOSDEM - https://penta.fosdem.org/submission/FOSDEM18 CfgmgmtCamp - http://cfgmgmtcamp.eu/#cfp This year is the 5th CfgMgmtCamp, and we want to make it the best yet. So in addition to the usual developer updates, new plugins, and community news talks, I'm very keen to hear from *users* - that's you! Submit your success stories (or horror stories!), things you learned in the trenches, or interesting ways you've put Foreman to use, and we'll make sure that the users get a voice in this years Foreman track. See you there! Greg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "foreman-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to foreman-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
