Re: HOW-TO get Flash7 working!
On Thu, 2008-01-17 at 08:50 +0100, Alexander Leidinger wrote: There's a different thread about flash and [EMAIL PROTECTED] reported there that the plugin is loaded by firefox but crashes. I've also seen reports that it doesn't crash, but I think those people where just lucky and didn't use the subset of flash which triggers the crash. You can crash Flash9 on FreeBSD any time just by visiting youtube.com and playing any random video, 100% success guaranteed. By the way, Flash9 is buggy like hell even when running natively on Linux, I can't confirm that by myself, but have some old coworkers in various web development companies and they say their clients complain every other day that their new fancy Flash9 presentations (thus requiring Flash9 plugin) crash Linux browsers like stock market in 1929. Of course, it's still much worse under Linuxulator. m. -- Michal Varga [EMAIL PROTECTED] Stonehenge ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: HOW-TO get Flash7 working!
On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 14:34:23 -0500 Chuck Robey wrote: Boris Samorodov wrote: On Tue, 15 Jan 2008 16:10:15 -0500 Chuck Robey wrote: All those libraries need to be found by the flash9 plugin library. Please, give me strict instructions how to repeate (what to do after a fresh install): - 0. Fresh RELENG_X_Y install. 2. Fresh ports (or date=...). 3. ... I said at the very beginning of this thread, that I didn't keep track of what I did, because the tack I took was to relocate all of the libs to the /compat tree, and this sort of strategy can't be taken until I could get official approval of that as the correct method to take for installation of Linux libraries. Catch 22? You won't do anything without official approvement but you won't get an official approvement without proving you are right... If I got that approval, I said I would undertake to locate and fix all of the ports that currently install Linux stuff into the /usr/local tree, and then make the flash9 work. This sort of tack can't be attempted, unless I could show the port authors involved that I have official approval to get this thing done, so they could either approve of the diffs I would give them, or argue it with the port managers themselves. What I never, ever intended to try, was to force things in any way, that's acting childishly. I just needed a official hammer that was morally strong enough to get things moving. Please, prove that you are right. Or do you want to receive a hammer without doing it? In fact, if it were understood that I was to get that sort of ruling in advance, then I would agree to submit complete diffs, in advance of the Patches will be good, but firstly it would be enough to give just instructions which one can follow (see a quote at the very beginning). work, both so folks could look at them, and so it could be proven that this strategy does indeed get the flash9 working. I'm not terribly worried about doing that, because I did it on my system already, and the only worry for me is if things (in the meantime) might have changed enough to make this no longer possible. But without that? I would be condemned to endless arguments, in order to effect all the changes, and I don't like arguing that much. No, I am not going to contribute to a tack that I feel is wrong-headed. I won't get in your way, but I wouldn't contribute to that. I hope that's a reasonably honest approach. To be REALLY stict about it, what I'm most strict about is getting all Linux libraries into the /compat tree, and probably doing that alone would be sufficient, but I'm trying here for the whole boat, moving all Linux things into /compat, as the hier(7) dictates (as I read it), Hier gurus may not read [EMAIL PROTECTED] and for the reasons that I've given endlessly by now. I didn't see any _proved_ reason. Is there somebody out there who did? In fact, I think it's a fact that I've really given this all the airing that's really needed. If folks can't see it's needed after all this, then go ahead and live with it, as long as I can make my system my way. I will no longer feel bad about it, I gave it a fair try at sharing what I felt was the right way to do things. I have asked a bunch of times (both in this thread, and in one direct mail to them) to get one of the port managers to issue a ruling, but I think I will take being ignored as a de facto ruling. I don't wish to harangue folks any longer. Actually, I don't understand what you don't understand. The thread becomes a little bit annoying to me. :-( If can prove that you are right just do it. Please. If you can't (or don't want or else) it's also OK. Please. WBR -- Boris Samorodov (bsam) Research Engineer, http://www.ipt.ru Telephone Internet SP FreeBSD committer, http://www.FreeBSD.org The Power To Serve ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: HOW-TO get Flash7 working!
On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 12:21:47 -0600, Michal Varga [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 2008-01-17 at 20:24 +0300, Boris Samorodov wrote: Please, prove that you are right. Or do you want to receive a hammer without doing it? And why not? Give him the approval to do the patches, review them and if he is right in his approach and they work as they should, commit them? snip How can we approve to something nothing? Do you realized that anyone doesn't need anyone's approve to create the patches? Chuck hasn't provide any patch, edvince nor detail. His words: Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 15:08:50 -0500 From: Chuck Robey [EMAIL PROTECTED] == The only way I'm going to get things to be for certain, it's to start over from the beginning, and this time follow the procedures that any serious porter (such as you) already knows by heart. I'm not going to try to repeat all that here. == Cheers, Mezz m. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] - [EMAIL PROTECTED] FreeBSD GNOME Team - FreeBSD Multimedia Hat (ports, not src) http://www.FreeBSD.org/gnome/ - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wiki.freebsd.org/multimedia - [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: HOW-TO get Flash7 working!
--- Jeremy Messenger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 12:21:47 -0600, Michal Varga [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 2008-01-17 at 20:24 +0300, Boris Samorodov wrote: Please, prove that you are right. Or do you want to receive a hammer without doing it? And why not? Give him the approval to do the patches, review them and if he is right in his approach and they work as they should, commit them? snip How can we approve to something nothing? Do you realized that anyone doesn't need anyone's approve to create the patches? Chuck hasn't provide any patch, edvince nor detail. His words: Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 15:08:50 -0500 From: Chuck Robey [EMAIL PROTECTED] == The only way I'm going to get things to be for certain, it's to start over from the beginning, and this time follow the procedures that any serious porter (such as you) already knows by heart. I'm not going to try to repeat all that here. == Cheers, Mezz m. How about a compromise. Find a relatively simple linux port that breaks heir style/policy. Fix it, send in a patch giving the reason that it used to break heir style/policy and now with the patch it doesnt. Then you will be in a better position to present your reasoning to a port manager if the maintainer complains. And, assuming the port manager will approve of a port being made heir compliant, you will then have a precedent to back you up, and may be more able to convince a port manager to give you approval/backing to do the whole lot. Cheers, Tim. Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: HOW-TO get Flash7 working!
On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 19:09:12 -0800 (PST) Tim Clewlow wrote: How about a compromise. Find a relatively simple linux port that breaks heir style/policy. Fix it, send in a patch giving the reason that it used to break heir style/policy and now with the patch it doesnt. Compromise? Pardon me, but have you read the thread? You ask much _more_ than I do! I ask only to show _instructions_ how to fix a broken port. WBR -- Boris Samorodov (bsam) Research Engineer, http://www.ipt.ru Telephone Internet SP FreeBSD committer, http://www.FreeBSD.org The Power To Serve ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: HOW-TO get Flash7 working!
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Boris Samorodov wrote: On Tue, 15 Jan 2008 16:10:15 -0500 Chuck Robey wrote: All those libraries need to be found by the flash9 plugin library. Please, give me strict instructions how to repeate (what to do after a fresh install): - 0. Fresh RELENG_X_Y install. 2. Fresh ports (or date=...). 3. ... I said at the very beginning of this thread, that I didn't keep track of what I did, because the tack I took was to relocate all of the libs to the /compat tree, and this sort of strategy can't be taken until I could get official approval of that as the correct method to take for installation of Linux libraries. If I got that approval, I said I would undertake to locate and fix all of the ports that currently install Linux stuff into the /usr/local tree, and then make the flash9 work. This sort of tack can't be attempted, unless I could show the port authors involved that I have official approval to get this thing done, so they could either approve of the diffs I would give them, or argue it with the port managers themselves. What I never, ever intended to try, was to force things in any way, that's acting childishly. I just needed a official hammer that was morally strong enough to get things moving. In fact, if it were understood that I was to get that sort of ruling in advance, then I would agree to submit complete diffs, in advance of the work, both so folks could look at them, and so it could be proven that this strategy does indeed get the flash9 working. I'm not terribly worried about doing that, because I did it on my system already, and the only worry for me is if things (in the meantime) might have changed enough to make this no longer possible. But without that? I would be condemned to endless arguments, in order to effect all the changes, and I don't like arguing that much. No, I am not going to contribute to a tack that I feel is wrong-headed. I won't get in your way, but I wouldn't contribute to that. I hope that's a reasonably honest approach. To be REALLY stict about it, what I'm most strict about is getting all Linux libraries into the /compat tree, and probably doing that alone would be sufficient, but I'm trying here for the whole boat, moving all Linux things into /compat, as the hier(7) dictates (as I read it), and for the reasons that I've given endlessly by now. In fact, I think it's a fact that I've really given this all the airing that's really needed. If folks can't see it's needed after all this, then go ahead and live with it, as long as I can make my system my way. I will no longer feel bad about it, I gave it a fair try at sharing what I felt was the right way to do things. I have asked a bunch of times (both in this thread, and in one direct mail to them) to get one of the port managers to issue a ruling, but I think I will take being ignored as a de facto ruling. I don't wish to harangue folks any longer. - Thanks. WBR -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4 (FreeBSD) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHjlw/z62J6PPcoOkRAtEgAKCUv3DlBKThxmnDut/8SVvT79jo6ACfd9rR Qm3oROp1RrR/iS+4/HezGPU= =Gd0p -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: HOW-TO get Flash7 working!
--- Chuck Robey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Boris Samorodov wrote: On Tue, 15 Jan 2008 16:10:15 -0500 Chuck Robey wrote: All those libraries need to be found by the flash9 plugin library. Please, give me strict instructions how to repeate (what to do after a fresh install): - 0. Fresh RELENG_X_Y install. 2. Fresh ports (or date=...). 3. ... I said at the very beginning of this thread, that I didn't keep track of what I did, because the tack I took was to relocate all of the libs to the /compat tree, and this sort of strategy can't be taken until I could get official approval of that as the correct method to take for installation of Linux libraries. If I got that approval, I said I would undertake to locate and fix all of the ports that currently install Linux stuff into the /usr/local tree, and then make the flash9 work. This sort of tack can't be attempted, unless I could show the port authors involved that I have official approval to get this thing done, so they could either approve of the diffs I would give them, or argue it with the port managers themselves. What I never, ever intended to try, was to force things in any way, that's acting childishly. I just needed a official hammer that was morally strong enough to get things moving. If I were a port manager, I would give you approval in a flash (bad pun intended). I completely agree, linux libs belong in /compat - otherwise, what is the point of having /compat ?? Cheers, Tim. Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: HOW-TO get Flash7 working!
Quoting Chuck Robey [EMAIL PROTECTED] (from Wed, 16 Jan 2008 14:34:23 -0500): -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Boris Samorodov wrote: On Tue, 15 Jan 2008 16:10:15 -0500 Chuck Robey wrote: All those libraries need to be found by the flash9 plugin library. Please, give me strict instructions how to repeate (what to do after a fresh install): - 0. Fresh RELENG_X_Y install. 2. Fresh ports (or date=...). 3. ... I said at the very beginning of this thread, that I didn't keep track of what I did, because the tack I took was to relocate all of the libs to the /compat tree, and this sort of strategy can't be taken until I could get official approval of that as the correct method to take for installation of Linux libraries. If I got that approval, I said I would undertake to locate and fix all of the ports that currently install Linux stuff into the /usr/local tree, and then make the flash9 work. This sort of tack can't be Have a look at the archives, I just got a message from [EMAIL PROTECTED] that he resinstalled all linux ports from scratch (empty /compat/linux) and the flash9 plugin was loaded by firefox (native and linux one). Flash9 crashes after a while for him. This is a known problem and the cause is somewhere in some kernel part of the linuxulator. Flash 7 works for him without problems. I still think you should try again with a fresh system. If you don't want to lose your current state, just use a jail or a virtual machine to install the things there. If you still have problems there, just report the error message firefox will spit out when he tries to load the plugin. Please don't copy things around, so that we can analyze the problem. Bye, Alexander. -- Money and women are the most sought after and the least known of any two things we have. -- The Best of Will Rogers http://www.Leidinger.netAlexander @ Leidinger.net: PGP ID = B0063FE7 http://www.FreeBSD.org netchild @ FreeBSD.org : PGP ID = 72077137 ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: HOW-TO get Flash7 working!
Quoting Sam Fourman Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] (from Wed, 16 Jan 2008 14:22:41 -0600): I guess i am a bit confused, did someone in fact get flash9 working in RELENG_7 or -CURRENT? There are known problems. Something is buggy in the kernel. We don't know what the exact problem is, nobody had time or incentive so far to hunt down the problem. You need to set the linux compatibility from the default 2.4.2 to 2.6.16, and you need a more recent linux_base (read: not the default fc4 but e.g. f7). There's a different thread about flash and [EMAIL PROTECTED] reported there that the plugin is loaded by firefox but crashes. I've also seen reports that it doesn't crash, but I think those people where just lucky and didn't use the subset of flash which triggers the crash. Bye, Alexander. -- Many people are secretly interested in life. http://www.Leidinger.netAlexander @ Leidinger.net: PGP ID = B0063FE7 http://www.FreeBSD.org netchild @ FreeBSD.org : PGP ID = 72077137 ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: HOW-TO get Flash7 working!
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Alexander Leidinger wrote: Quoting Chuck Robey [EMAIL PROTECTED] (from Mon, 14 Jan 2008 15:08:50 -0500): -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Boris Samorodov wrote: Hello Chuck, On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 16:54:31 -0500 Chuck Robey wrote: As an example, the flash9 plugin needed a linux lib, libdl.so (I think it was .so.2). If I I wrote the port which installs libdl.so.2, so I guess I should respond... wanted to be complete, it really needed about twenty different libraries, but libdl.so will serve as an example well enough). It had been installed in some subdir of /usr/local/lib. Are you sure that you didn't use some non-default paths to install a linux_base port? I'm asking the question because: - % locate libdl.so /usr/compat/linux/lib/libdl.so.2 % pkg_info -W /compat/linux/lib/libdl.so.2 /compat/linux/lib/libdl.so.2 was installed by package linux_base-fc-4_10 - I'm a little behind in answering my mail, I hope I didn't keep you waiting too long. Yeah, you're right, you had it right. If and when I finally get ports-management to comment on my thesis, and IF they finally agree with me, I guess I'm going to be forced to completely zero out my entire system (damn, what a PITA) and get things fixed right from the beginning. Back some years back, when I was very active in ports last, I had to maintain my system in an extremely clean status, because otherwise, one can never really guarantee that what builds fine one your system won't break on everyone else's. Anyhow, I said I made no effort to record what I did, and if in this case I misremembered, please don't take it as an insult to your work, which does look like you did a fine job of it. This, at least, is one port that DOES do things as I would have them. _All_ pure infrastructure ports install into LINUXBASE. Just so I have an example of things doing the install badly (I mean here, as I define badly, mreans not using /compat), I just checked the very first linux browser I found in /usr/ports/www, that's linux-firefox, and it does it badly, using /usr/local only. I was wrong in pulling yours out of my heaad (altho, in my own defense, I prefaced it with I think it was, because I wasn't sure. Didn't realize you would take it as an insult, and sure didn't mena it thast way. I just want to eliminate all ports installing Linux type things outside of /compat/linux. There are just so many reasons that it's bad news (see other mail, I won't repeat it all over again here). This is not a nice to have-style requirement, it is a _hard_ requirement. Anyone violating this gets a slap on the hand from me as sonn as I discover it. So in case you talk about ports which only install libs and they are not in LINUXBASE, I would say your system is fucked up It's not fucked up, I just gave a hard example of one that definitely does it bad. I was wrong in misremembering you, not wrong in misremembering the action. Go check that yourself, sir. There are indeed many Linux ports that stick there stuff in /usr/local. and you should install from scratch to have a good basis for discussion. So far you just point fingers in a generic direction without giving hard facts. A lot of this finger pointing is for libs, as far as I understand your posts. So please, install a clean system and tell us about concrete port names. Hard facts are a good base to talk about, the oh, I don't remember what I did but my current setup is not satisfying is leading nowhere. The only way I'm going to get things to be for certain, it's to start over from the beginning, and this time follow the procedures that any serious porter (such as you) already knows by heart. I'm not going to try to repeat all that here. I reply to your other mail later when I have more time. It is big and I have to write some things there. Bye, Alexander. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4 (FreeBSD) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHjQnmz62J6PPcoOkRAsASAJ4mMxo/80qUNKKttzjWOn91/dY8rwCfbkps PoyKLFdTyWOhSjghgC3FTTQ= =nTaE -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: HOW-TO get Flash7 working!
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Boris Samorodov wrote: On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 15:08:50 -0500 Chuck Robey wrote: Anyhow, I said I made no effort to record what I did, and if in this case I misremembered, please don't take it as an insult to your work, which does I didn't. I (as a developer) tried to help you (as a user) to track the difficulties. look like you did a fine job of it. This, at least, is one port that DOES do things as I would have them. Well, since some other (may be 15-20) fc4-linux infrastructure port were written by me as well, I hope that there should be more that that one. :-) The only way I'm going to get things to be for certain, it's to start over from the beginning, and this time follow the procedures that any serious porter (such as you) already knows by heart. I'm not going to try to repeat all that here. OK, great. And please, in any doubt about any (in this case linux) port's behaviour don't hesitate and write to this or emulation@ ML. I just replied to Alex Leidinger's mail (where he replied to this one) incorrectly. I thought it was you, and didn;'t realize until after I'd kicked off the send key. Should have realized it from his use of invective, and how he tried to paint this one error as if _all_ linux ports installed correctly, and I was only confused. No big loss, I ppointed out there a particular example (/usr/ports/www/linux-firefox) that does install into /usr/local, just didn't appreciate his painting it as if all I said was wrong, and using the libdl thing as if I was wrong all around the ring. I haven't sent any of this to emulation. I dislike crossposting without some truly major reason, and this thread did begin in ports. I wonder, does the fact that your own port installs into /compat mean that you, yourself, agree with my thesis, that all Linux items belong inmstalled into the /compat/linux tree? What is your own opinion of this? -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4 (FreeBSD) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHjQzBz62J6PPcoOkRAiPKAJ49w43EbG50fW//JG99IyYigN52kACeKjXD UEmBdC/47U1M2iVEyGHUb+Y= =whyR -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: HOW-TO get Flash7 working!
On Tue, 15 Jan 2008 14:42:57 -0500 Chuck Robey wrote: Boris Samorodov wrote: On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 15:08:50 -0500 Chuck Robey wrote: Anyhow, I said I made no effort to record what I did, and if in this case I misremembered, please don't take it as an insult to your work, which does I didn't. I (as a developer) tried to help you (as a user) to track the difficulties. look like you did a fine job of it. This, at least, is one port that DOES do things as I would have them. Well, since some other (may be 15-20) fc4-linux infrastructure port were written by me as well, I hope that there should be more that that one. :-) The only way I'm going to get things to be for certain, it's to start over from the beginning, and this time follow the procedures that any serious porter (such as you) already knows by heart. I'm not going to try to repeat all that here. OK, great. And please, in any doubt about any (in this case linux) port's behaviour don't hesitate and write to this or emulation@ ML. I just replied to Alex Leidinger's mail (where he replied to this one) incorrectly. I thought it was you, and didn;'t realize until after I'd kicked off the send key. Should have realized it from his use of invective, and how he tried to paint this one error as if _all_ linux ports He said all infrastructure linux ports. Those ports which install libraries, filesystem, configs, etc. He never said all of them (just because he knows ports and it's structure much better than me). And it is Alexander (with the help of Roman Divacky) who did much work at kernel/userland linuxulator to improve it and introduce 2.6-linux. installed correctly, and I was only confused. No big loss, I ppointed out there a particular example (/usr/ports/www/linux-firefox) that does install into /usr/local, This is not an infrastructure port, this is a user application. (I'll duscuss this port as an answer for your other mail). just didn't appreciate his painting it as if all I said was wrong, and using the libdl thing as if I was wrong all around the ring. OK, let's leave libdl an all concerned with it in the past. And let's concentrate at port errors (ports with errors?). I haven't sent any of this to emulation. I dislike crossposting without some truly major reason, and this thread did begin in ports. I wonder, does the fact that your own port installs into /compat mean that you, yourself, agree with my thesis, that all Linux items belong inmstalled into the /compat/linux tree? Actually, no. ;-) That means that those ports are linux infrastructure ports which (so far noboby doubts it) belong to /compat/linux. What is your own opinion of this? You know, when something goes wrong with a port and I can't repair it myself, I do to a dortor^w kernel committer for help. If he says don't do it, it hurts I do just what he says. Said that I should add that I do it not blindly but because I see that it really (most of the cases) helps. Yet there are open PRs which still are not closed, workaround not found, etc. Nobody says that current linuxulator is ideal. I'd say that current situation just hurts less. It is (unfortunately) very sensitive instrument. :-( (I don't want to end the letter in a sad end, and here is an old Russian phrase which may remind current situation: One wrong movement, and you are a father...) WBR -- Boris Samorodov (bsam) Research Engineer, http://www.ipt.ru Telephone Internet SP FreeBSD committer, http://www.FreeBSD.org The Power To Serve ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: HOW-TO get Flash7 working!
On Tue, 15 Jan 2008 14:30:47 -0500 Chuck Robey wrote: Alexander Leidinger wrote: _All_ pure infrastructure ports install into LINUXBASE. Just so I have an example of things doing the install badly (I mean here, as I define badly, mreans not using /compat), I just checked the very first linux browser I found in /usr/ports/www, that's linux-firefox, and it does it badly, using /usr/local only. Just saying that it seems bad to you is not very helpful, isn't it?. Can you provide an evidence that by installing this port to /usr/local this (or other) port becomes broken? WBR -- Boris Samorodov (bsam) Research Engineer, http://www.ipt.ru Telephone Internet SP FreeBSD committer, http://www.FreeBSD.org The Power To Serve ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: HOW-TO get Flash7 working!
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Boris Samorodov wrote: On Tue, 15 Jan 2008 14:30:47 -0500 Chuck Robey wrote: Alexander Leidinger wrote: _All_ pure infrastructure ports install into LINUXBASE. Just so I have an example of things doing the install badly (I mean here, as I define badly, mreans not using /compat), I just checked the very first linux browser I found in /usr/ports/www, that's linux-firefox, and it does it badly, using /usr/local only. Just saying that it seems bad to you is not very helpful, isn't it?. Can you provide an evidence that by installing this port to /usr/local this (or other) port becomes broken? I did that already (I am getting confused with what seems to me this thread getting a bit shattered(?)) anyhow, check the ports/www/linux-firefox, which installs a raft of libraries. All those libraries need to be found by the flash9 plugin library. WBR -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4 (FreeBSD) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHjSE3z62J6PPcoOkRAq2fAJ45PcaMMJcwjoh96LGDnlkAEUaEKwCfdj/s fVfBgvk0fwNS0v5ILLh+lm8= =Ie/l -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: HOW-TO get Flash7 working!
On Tue, 15 Jan 2008 16:10:15 -0500 Chuck Robey wrote: All those libraries need to be found by the flash9 plugin library. Please, give me strict instructions how to repeate (what to do after a fresh install): - 0. Fresh RELENG_X_Y install. 2. Fresh ports (or date=...). 3. ... - Thanks. WBR -- Boris Samorodov (bsam) Research Engineer, http://www.ipt.ru Telephone Internet SP FreeBSD committer, http://www.FreeBSD.org The Power To Serve ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: HOW-TO get Flash7 working!
On Tue, 15 Jan 2008 14:47:42 -0600, Boris Samorodov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 15 Jan 2008 14:42:57 -0500 Chuck Robey wrote: Boris Samorodov wrote: On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 15:08:50 -0500 Chuck Robey wrote: Anyhow, I said I made no effort to record what I did, and if in this case I misremembered, please don't take it as an insult to your work, which does I didn't. I (as a developer) tried to help you (as a user) to track the difficulties. look like you did a fine job of it. This, at least, is one port that DOES do things as I would have them. Well, since some other (may be 15-20) fc4-linux infrastructure port were written by me as well, I hope that there should be more that that one. :-) The only way I'm going to get things to be for certain, it's to start over from the beginning, and this time follow the procedures that any serious porter (such as you) already knows by heart. I'm not going to try to repeat all that here. OK, great. And please, in any doubt about any (in this case linux) port's behaviour don't hesitate and write to this or emulation@ ML. I just replied to Alex Leidinger's mail (where he replied to this one) incorrectly. I thought it was you, and didn;'t realize until after I'd kicked off the send key. Should have realized it from his use of invective, and how he tried to paint this one error as if _all_ linux ports He said all infrastructure linux ports. Those ports which install libraries, filesystem, configs, etc. He never said all of them (just because he knows ports and it's structure much better than me). And it is Alexander (with the help of Roman Divacky) who did much work at kernel/userland linuxulator to improve it and introduce 2.6-linux. installed correctly, and I was only confused. No big loss, I ppointed out there a particular example (/usr/ports/www/linux-firefox) that does install into /usr/local, This is not an infrastructure port, this is a user application. (I'll duscuss this port as an answer for your other mail). Well, actually, near all of gecko ports install both libraries and app. In FreeBSD, there are plenty of ports that depend on firefox, mozilla, seamonkey and other gecko libraries. # ldd /usr/local/bin/epiphany | grep firefox libmozjs.so = /usr/local/lib/firefox/libmozjs.so (0x28189000) libgtkembedmoz.so = /usr/local/lib/firefox/libgtkembedmoz.so (0x2823) libxpcom.so = /usr/local/lib/firefox/libxpcom.so (0x28244000) libxpcom_core.so = /usr/local/lib/firefox/libxpcom_core.so (0x295b6000) # ldd /usr/local/lib/liferea/liblihtmlm.so | grep firefox libgtkembedmoz.so = /usr/local/lib/firefox/libgtkembedmoz.so (0x28d2c000) libxpcom.so = /usr/local/lib/firefox/libxpcom.so (0x28d4) libxpcom_core.so = /usr/local/lib/firefox/libxpcom_core.so (0x29007000) But as you have pointed about that we need an evidence for linux-firefox install in LOCALBASE breaks other linux stuff. Cheers, Mezz just didn't appreciate his painting it as if all I said was wrong, and using the libdl thing as if I was wrong all around the ring. OK, let's leave libdl an all concerned with it in the past. And let's concentrate at port errors (ports with errors?). I haven't sent any of this to emulation. I dislike crossposting without some truly major reason, and this thread did begin in ports. I wonder, does the fact that your own port installs into /compat mean that you, yourself, agree with my thesis, that all Linux items belong inmstalled into the /compat/linux tree? Actually, no. ;-) That means that those ports are linux infrastructure ports which (so far noboby doubts it) belong to /compat/linux. What is your own opinion of this? You know, when something goes wrong with a port and I can't repair it myself, I do to a dortor^w kernel committer for help. If he says don't do it, it hurts I do just what he says. Said that I should add that I do it not blindly but because I see that it really (most of the cases) helps. Yet there are open PRs which still are not closed, workaround not found, etc. Nobody says that current linuxulator is ideal. I'd say that current situation just hurts less. It is (unfortunately) very sensitive instrument. :-( (I don't want to end the letter in a sad end, and here is an old Russian phrase which may remind current situation: One wrong movement, and you are a father...) WBR -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] - [EMAIL PROTECTED] FreeBSD GNOME Team - FreeBSD Multimedia Hat (ports, not src) http://www.FreeBSD.org/gnome/ - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wiki.freebsd.org/multimedia - [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Another question based on: Re: HOW-TO get Flash7 working!
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 eculp wrote: The dialog at the end of this email is becoming a bit more philosophical than I need right now ;). Is there an accepted or reasonably so, sure-fire way to get linux flash[79] working in Prerelease or in current? If so, would you please share how you did it on this list? Getting my method accepted so that I could modify the ports in question, is the reason for all this folderol. The method I detail below is what I followed, and it's complicated enough that NO WAY would I ever suggest anyone follow it, but I haven't been able to provoke anyone in authority to either agree or disagree (officially) with me, either to get me rolling, or to stop a major bore from putting everyone to sleep. I don['t enjoy all this arguing. Flash is becoming more dominate daily and there are many sites that are basically unusable without it. Some banking, telco, etc. sites, etc. That are difficult if not impossible too use for account access without flash and don't pay much attention to end user requests based on the installed base of Flash[89]. That brings up another detail, many sites now require Flash[89] even though they don't actually need it probably to impress their customers with their being on the technological, bleeding edge. Thanks, Chuck, for getting this started and for finding a solution that may or may not be appropriate for all. I would personally like to try what you have done with flash9 if it is stable for you and if you would be so kind as to document a bit clearer how to do it. Well, I couldn't get any responses from my mail to the ports leaders, so I didn't even try to make a port of it. I looked over to my Gentoo Linux box, sand saw that my firefox there (which does flash just fine) had the libflashplayer.so in /usr/lib/firefox/plugins, so I copied that file tp my /usr/compat/usr/lib/linux-firefox/plugins. I did an ldd on that file, and found all files excepting one existed on my system, so one by one I moved them to /usr/compat/linux/usr/lib (checking each time, with the llinux ldd, that the loader was finding the file being used). I *think* that there was one that I coudlnt find (I'm not really sire at this point), but I think it was liobdl.so.2, so I copied that one from my Gentoo box also, and also the requisite softlink to libdl.so (remember that all linux libs need their symlinks to the library file without the version number). I need to admit that there were a couple of startup errors I got from the linux-firefox, ones that told me it couldn't find a aprticular library, but when I located the library that it couldn't find, and moved it to the compat tree, the error evaporated. Once I got finished with all this dance, flash9 worked fine using linux-firefox. Thanks to all, ed Quoting Alexander Leidinger [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Quoting Chuck Robey [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Fri, 11 Jan 2008 16:54:31 -0500): -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Alexander Leidinger wrote: Quoting Chuck Robey [EMAIL PROTECTED] (from Thu, 10 Jan 2008 21:05:16 -0500): I actually got the linux flash9 working. Why didn't I post it, put in a patch? Because one of the main reasons that it doesn't work now is the insane way that much Linux libraries are installed. If folks would honor Would you mind telling us how, so that we understand the problem? hier(7) then all linux libs would go into /usr/compat/usr/lib, but instead, many linux ports (including browsers, believe me) install into $(PREFIX)/lib/libsubdir. This means every single linux app that uses linux libs hsa to be run with a shell wrapper, artificially extending the LD_LIBRARY_PATH. Since no porter of an app installing libs knows all the ports that might use their libs, random breakages are the rule of the day, to say nothing of the egregious harm to security this kind of strategy causes. It's a big reason why the flash things don't work. Want proof? Go use the linux ldd to see just how long the list of libraries is, that those extensions use, then you'll begin to see. Not all those libs are browser products, either. Have fun trying to get a wrapper to work there. I volunteered to fix this situation all myself, if only the ports management would give me written agreement that the strategy I decry is in fact bad software practice, so that I may point to that document to port authors, when I ask for permission to edit their work. Ports management hasn't seen fit to reply, or at least, I haven't seen it if they did. I don't intend to force anyone, but without having ports mangement backing, I am NOT going to have this argument with every porter, no way. I tried that once, and at least one fellow told me he thought that requiring every linux application to have it's own wrapper was the cleaner way to go. Huh, if that's so, then I guess I should be stopped
Re: HOW-TO get Flash7 working!
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Boris Samorodov wrote: Hello Chuck, On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 16:54:31 -0500 Chuck Robey wrote: As an example, the flash9 plugin needed a linux lib, libdl.so (I think it was .so.2). If I I wrote the port which installs libdl.so.2, so I guess I should respond... wanted to be complete, it really needed about twenty different libraries, but libdl.so will serve as an example well enough). It had been installed in some subdir of /usr/local/lib. Are you sure that you didn't use some non-default paths to install a linux_base port? I'm asking the question because: - % locate libdl.so /usr/compat/linux/lib/libdl.so.2 % pkg_info -W /compat/linux/lib/libdl.so.2 /compat/linux/lib/libdl.so.2 was installed by package linux_base-fc-4_10 - I'm a little behind in answering my mail, I hope I didn't keep you waiting too long. Yeah, you're right, you had it right. If and when I finally get ports-management to comment on my thesis, and IF they finally agree with me, I guess I'm going to be forced to completely zero out my entire system (damn, what a PITA) and get things fixed right from the beginning. Back some years back, when I was very active in ports last, I had to maintain my system in an extremely clean status, because otherwise, one can never really guarantee that what builds fine one your system won't break on everyone else's. Anyhow, I said I made no effort to record what I did, and if in this case I misremembered, please don't take it as an insult to your work, which does look like you did a fine job of it. This, at least, is one port that DOES do things as I would have them. The only way I'm going to get things to be for certain, it's to start over from the beginning, and this time follow the procedures that any serious porter (such as you) already knows by heart. I'm not going to try to repeat all that here. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4 (FreeBSD) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHi8FSz62J6PPcoOkRAv92AJ0fXol9ju7rXM6owJKMVQ7UxbUOIQCgkCKb 7XZMdPkycUska0hzLlXq8wo= =7waE -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: HOW-TO get Flash7 working!
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Alexander Leidinger wrote: Quoting Chuck Robey [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Fri, 11 Jan 2008 16:54:31 -0500): -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Alexander Leidinger wrote: Quoting Chuck Robey [EMAIL PROTECTED] (from Thu, 10 Jan 2008 21:05:16 -0500): I actually got the linux flash9 working. Why didn't I post it, put in a patch? Because one of the main reasons that it doesn't work now is the insane way that much Linux libraries are installed. If folks would honor Would you mind telling us how, so that we understand the problem? hier(7) then all linux libs would go into /usr/compat/usr/lib, but instead, many linux ports (including browsers, believe me) install into $(PREFIX)/lib/libsubdir. This means every single linux app that uses linux libs hsa to be run with a shell wrapper, artificially extending the LD_LIBRARY_PATH. Since no porter of an app installing libs knows all the ports that might use their libs, random breakages are the rule of the day, to say nothing of the egregious harm to security this kind of strategy causes. It's a big reason why the flash things don't work. Want proof? Go use the linux ldd to see just how long the list of libraries is, that those extensions use, then you'll begin to see. Not all those libs are browser products, either. Have fun trying to get a wrapper to work there. I volunteered to fix this situation all myself, if only the ports management would give me written agreement that the strategy I decry is in fact bad software practice, so that I may point to that document to port authors, when I ask for permission to edit their work. Ports management hasn't seen fit to reply, or at least, I haven't seen it if they did. I don't intend to force anyone, but without having ports mangement backing, I am NOT going to have this argument with every porter, no way. I tried that once, and at least one fellow told me he thought that requiring every linux application to have it's own wrapper was the cleaner way to go. Huh, if that's so, then I guess I should be stopped anyhow. You think that way? I think you are referring to me here. I think the important part to understand my opinion to install end-user applications into PREFIX instead of LINUXPREFIX (note: linux library ports _have_ to go to LINUXBASE) is missing here. In fact, I have never been at all good at remembering names, to the point that I no longer even try. I haven't the faintest idea (even now) if it was you or not. If it pleases you, though, that's fine, assume away. I don't think I was insulting, I have made enough of an ass of myself in the past to realize the folly of being sarcastic (it always comes back to bite you). I didn't understand it as insulting. No user shall have subdirs of LINUXPREFIX in his path. This would open up Pandorra's box. OK, need to stop you here. I don't know what that LINUXPREFIX item is. I It was either my mispelling of LINUXBASE, or my failed try to make a distinction between the user chosen prefix for two different management domains. Chose the error you like more. ;-) Are you telling me that your statement above should replace LINUXPREFIX with LINUXBASE? OK, I will assume that in my replies below. just grepped for it in /usr/ports subdirs Mk, emulators, and www (recursive one), and even did an apropos. I did a bit of googling and found a LINUXPREFIX in some Linux docs, is that the one you're referring to? What's it mean, how's it used? Regardless, please, could you explain why it would open up Pandora's Box? Maybe if I could have a better handle on what it is, I might not ask that question, but I can't, so I'm asking. If an user has the bin directories in the LINUXBASE in his path - he may accidentally execute linux programs when FreeBSD programs may be required - a configure run may detect linux things and enable stuff which is not valid for FreeBSD - ... (I don't remember everything by heart, and I'm too lazy currently to try to reverse engineer all of them in my brain, but you get the big picture of the bad stuff which can happen) If the alternative is to install the executable into the common /usr/local/bin, and effect the choice of executable by adding a linux- to the front of any linux command, please explain to me AGAIN why making the ports all sit in a speparate linux directorty is either more complicated or makes using our PATH variable more difficult? And quit *please* your attempts to escape having to explain by saying either I'm too lazyor you understand or anything of that sort. I don't know it, I don't understand, and if that's your best defense, please quit this, because it's really becoming a pain for most of us to read. If I'm able to honestly defend my position without waffling, so can you. I do wish someone in ports management would just step up and give an authritative decision. For or
Re: HOW-TO get Flash7 working!
Hello List, On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 14:57:59 -0500 Chuck Robey wrote: I do wish someone in ports management would just step up and give an authritative decision. So far you didn't show any broken port. How a member of portmgr@ can vote? May be that one (two, ... much more) port(s) can be fixed without portmgr@ decision? May be let's take 'em one by one? As a ports committer and a member of linux emulation team I'm very interested in fixing broken ports. I'm just of the opinion that ports is being seriously damaged here. You might be quite right. But please, show any evidence, give any details that one can confirm and finally fix a port. The best way is to show that a port foo/linux-bar by default installs to ... (ex., /usr/local). That breaks the port foo/linux-baz... BTW, suggestions like changing a default path etc. imho does not belong to ports questions and so does not lie within portmgr@ jurisdiction. I can't say for sure which list is preferable (in order you may get a professional answer). May be at current@ or even [EMAIL PROTECTED] WBR -- Boris Samorodov (bsam) Research Engineer, http://www.ipt.ru Telephone Internet SP FreeBSD committer, http://www.FreeBSD.org The Power To Serve ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Another question based on: Re: HOW-TO get Flash7 working!
The dialog at the end of this email is becoming a bit more philosophical than I need right now ;). Is there an accepted or reasonably so, sure-fire way to get linux flash[79] working in Prerelease or in current? If so, would you please share how you did it on this list? Flash is becoming more dominate daily and there are many sites that are basically unusable without it. Some banking, telco, etc. sites, etc. That are difficult if not impossible too use for account access without flash and don't pay much attention to end user requests based on the installed base of Flash[89]. That brings up another detail, many sites now require Flash[89] even though they don't actually need it probably to impress their customers with their being on the technological, bleeding edge. Thanks, Chuck, for getting this started and for finding a solution that may or may not be appropriate for all. I would personally like to try what you have done with flash9 if it is stable for you and if you would be so kind as to document a bit clearer how to do it. Thanks to all, ed Quoting Alexander Leidinger [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Quoting Chuck Robey [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Fri, 11 Jan 2008 16:54:31 -0500): -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Alexander Leidinger wrote: Quoting Chuck Robey [EMAIL PROTECTED] (from Thu, 10 Jan 2008 21:05:16 -0500): I actually got the linux flash9 working. Why didn't I post it, put in a patch? Because one of the main reasons that it doesn't work now is the insane way that much Linux libraries are installed. If folks would honor Would you mind telling us how, so that we understand the problem? hier(7) then all linux libs would go into /usr/compat/usr/lib, but instead, many linux ports (including browsers, believe me) install into $(PREFIX)/lib/libsubdir. This means every single linux app that uses linux libs hsa to be run with a shell wrapper, artificially extending the LD_LIBRARY_PATH. Since no porter of an app installing libs knows all the ports that might use their libs, random breakages are the rule of the day, to say nothing of the egregious harm to security this kind of strategy causes. It's a big reason why the flash things don't work. Want proof? Go use the linux ldd to see just how long the list of libraries is, that those extensions use, then you'll begin to see. Not all those libs are browser products, either. Have fun trying to get a wrapper to work there. I volunteered to fix this situation all myself, if only the ports management would give me written agreement that the strategy I decry is in fact bad software practice, so that I may point to that document to port authors, when I ask for permission to edit their work. Ports management hasn't seen fit to reply, or at least, I haven't seen it if they did. I don't intend to force anyone, but without having ports mangement backing, I am NOT going to have this argument with every porter, no way. I tried that once, and at least one fellow told me he thought that requiring every linux application to have it's own wrapper was the cleaner way to go. Huh, if that's so, then I guess I should be stopped anyhow. You think that way? I think you are referring to me here. I think the important part to understand my opinion to install end-user applications into PREFIX instead of LINUXPREFIX (note: linux library ports _have_ to go to LINUXBASE) is missing here. In fact, I have never been at all good at remembering names, to the point that I no longer even try. I haven't the faintest idea (even now) if it was you or not. If it pleases you, though, that's fine, assume away. I don't think I was insulting, I have made enough of an ass of myself in the past to realize the folly of being sarcastic (it always comes back to bite you). I didn't understand it as insulting. No user shall have subdirs of LINUXPREFIX in his path. This would open up Pandorra's box. OK, need to stop you here. I don't know what that LINUXPREFIX item is. I It was either my mispelling of LINUXBASE, or my failed try to make a distinction between the user chosen prefix for two different management domains. Chose the error you like more. ;-) just grepped for it in /usr/ports subdirs Mk, emulators, and www (recursive one), and even did an apropos. I did a bit of googling and found a LINUXPREFIX in some Linux docs, is that the one you're referring to? What's it mean, how's it used? Regardless, please, could you explain why it would open up Pandora's Box? Maybe if I could have a better handle on what it is, I might not ask that question, but I can't, so I'm asking. If an user has the bin directories in the LINUXBASE in his path - he may accidentally execute linux programs when FreeBSD programs may be required - a configure run may detect linux things and enable stuff which is not valid for FreeBSD - ... (I don't remember everything by heart, and I'm too lazy currently
Re: Another question based on: Re: HOW-TO get Flash7 working!
Quoting Thierry Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Le Dim 13 jan 08 à 15:25:15 +0100, eculp [EMAIL PROTECTED] écrivait : Is there an accepted or reasonably so, sure-fire way to get linux flash[79] working in Prerelease or in current? If so, would you please share how you did it on this list? Well, I have a working flashplugin 7, on FreeBSD-6 and FreeBSD-7. I have'nt configured anything special: just install www/linux-flashplugin7, and then www/nspluginwrapper. After that, follow the instructions in the pkg-message: nspluginwrapper -v -a -i (for each user) This is working for the native firefox seamonkey. Thanks, Thierry. I probably have something wrong and there are many variables. If I may ask, which linux emulator and kernel are you using and are you using AMD or i386 distributions? I'm assuming there could very well be differences with these. I'm going to uninstall all the related ports and completely erase the leftover garbage and try again to see what happens. Thanks again, ed It seems that flashplugin 8 has never been ported to FreeBSD (I don't know why), and flashplugin 9 is reported as not working. Regards, -- Th. Thomas. ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Another question based on: Re: HOW-TO get Flash7 working!
Le Dim 13 jan 08 à 19:21:50 +0100, eculp [EMAIL PROTECTED] écrivait : I probably have something wrong and there are many variables. If I may ask, which linux emulator and kernel are you using and are you using AMD or i386 distributions? I'm assuming there could very well be differences with these. Just i386, no amd64, and I run the default linuxolator (linux_base-fc-4_10 ATM). I'm going to uninstall all the related ports and completely erase the leftover garbage and try again to see what happens. Good luck! -- Th. Thomas. ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: HOW-TO get Flash7 working!
Quoting Chuck Robey [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Fri, 11 Jan 2008 16:54:31 -0500): -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Alexander Leidinger wrote: Quoting Chuck Robey [EMAIL PROTECTED] (from Thu, 10 Jan 2008 21:05:16 -0500): I actually got the linux flash9 working. Why didn't I post it, put in a patch? Because one of the main reasons that it doesn't work now is the insane way that much Linux libraries are installed. If folks would honor Would you mind telling us how, so that we understand the problem? hier(7) then all linux libs would go into /usr/compat/usr/lib, but instead, many linux ports (including browsers, believe me) install into $(PREFIX)/lib/libsubdir. This means every single linux app that uses linux libs hsa to be run with a shell wrapper, artificially extending the LD_LIBRARY_PATH. Since no porter of an app installing libs knows all the ports that might use their libs, random breakages are the rule of the day, to say nothing of the egregious harm to security this kind of strategy causes. It's a big reason why the flash things don't work. Want proof? Go use the linux ldd to see just how long the list of libraries is, that those extensions use, then you'll begin to see. Not all those libs are browser products, either. Have fun trying to get a wrapper to work there. I volunteered to fix this situation all myself, if only the ports management would give me written agreement that the strategy I decry is in fact bad software practice, so that I may point to that document to port authors, when I ask for permission to edit their work. Ports management hasn't seen fit to reply, or at least, I haven't seen it if they did. I don't intend to force anyone, but without having ports mangement backing, I am NOT going to have this argument with every porter, no way. I tried that once, and at least one fellow told me he thought that requiring every linux application to have it's own wrapper was the cleaner way to go. Huh, if that's so, then I guess I should be stopped anyhow. You think that way? I think you are referring to me here. I think the important part to understand my opinion to install end-user applications into PREFIX instead of LINUXPREFIX (note: linux library ports _have_ to go to LINUXBASE) is missing here. In fact, I have never been at all good at remembering names, to the point that I no longer even try. I haven't the faintest idea (even now) if it was you or not. If it pleases you, though, that's fine, assume away. I don't think I was insulting, I have made enough of an ass of myself in the past to realize the folly of being sarcastic (it always comes back to bite you). I didn't understand it as insulting. No user shall have subdirs of LINUXPREFIX in his path. This would open up Pandorra's box. OK, need to stop you here. I don't know what that LINUXPREFIX item is. I It was either my mispelling of LINUXBASE, or my failed try to make a distinction between the user chosen prefix for two different management domains. Chose the error you like more. ;-) just grepped for it in /usr/ports subdirs Mk, emulators, and www (recursive one), and even did an apropos. I did a bit of googling and found a LINUXPREFIX in some Linux docs, is that the one you're referring to? What's it mean, how's it used? Regardless, please, could you explain why it would open up Pandora's Box? Maybe if I could have a better handle on what it is, I might not ask that question, but I can't, so I'm asking. If an user has the bin directories in the LINUXBASE in his path - he may accidentally execute linux programs when FreeBSD programs may be required - a configure run may detect linux things and enable stuff which is not valid for FreeBSD - ... (I don't remember everything by heart, and I'm too lazy currently to try to reverse engineer all of them in my brain, but you get the big picture of the bad stuff which can happen) All of this may be confusing, specially for newbies. And if we require that users add some LINUXBASE directories to their PATH (which means manual activity to be able to run a program, where the current approach doesn't need this and has not the above drawbacks) by default, even newbies do that, and they will not be able to handle this situation and will throw FreeBSD away. One item that some might not know: most unixes have a strong bias towards installing everything into /usr/bin or /usr/lib. Many Linux boxes don't even have a /usr/local, or opt, or whatever. Much Linux software makes the assumption that it's using a prefix of /usr. I hate this myself, I MUCH more like FreeBSD's way of doing things, but I can have my cake and eat it too, if Linux software is installed into /compat/linux/usr/bin (and lib, etc), I get the separation as far as FreeBSD is concerned, but Linux software is fooled into obeying their abhorrent lack of separation.
Re: HOW-TO get Flash7 working!
Quoting Chuck Robey [EMAIL PROTECTED] (from Thu, 10 Jan 2008 21:05:16 -0500): I actually got the linux flash9 working. Why didn't I post it, put in a patch? Because one of the main reasons that it doesn't work now is the insane way that much Linux libraries are installed. If folks would honor Would you mind telling us how, so that we understand the problem? hier(7) then all linux libs would go into /usr/compat/usr/lib, but instead, many linux ports (including browsers, believe me) install into $(PREFIX)/lib/libsubdir. This means every single linux app that uses linux libs hsa to be run with a shell wrapper, artificially extending the LD_LIBRARY_PATH. Since no porter of an app installing libs knows all the ports that might use their libs, random breakages are the rule of the day, to say nothing of the egregious harm to security this kind of strategy causes. It's a big reason why the flash things don't work. Want proof? Go use the linux ldd to see just how long the list of libraries is, that those extensions use, then you'll begin to see. Not all those libs are browser products, either. Have fun trying to get a wrapper to work there. I volunteered to fix this situation all myself, if only the ports management would give me written agreement that the strategy I decry is in fact bad software practice, so that I may point to that document to port authors, when I ask for permission to edit their work. Ports management hasn't seen fit to reply, or at least, I haven't seen it if they did. I don't intend to force anyone, but without having ports mangement backing, I am NOT going to have this argument with every porter, no way. I tried that once, and at least one fellow told me he thought that requiring every linux application to have it's own wrapper was the cleaner way to go. Huh, if that's so, then I guess I should be stopped anyhow. You think that way? I think you are referring to me here. I think the important part to understand my opinion to install end-user applications into PREFIX instead of LINUXPREFIX (note: linux library ports _have_ to go to LINUXBASE) is missing here. No user shall have subdirs of LINUXPREFIX in his path. This would open up Pandorra's box. A clean way to achieve this is to have something in prefix which calls the linux program. This can be a symlink or a wrapper in PREFIX. If you install parts of a port into LINUXPREFIX and a link/wrapper in PREFIX (or more generic: if you have 2 different prefixes in a port), you have to do some ports-magic. If you install the port in a sub-directory in PREFIX and add a wrapper in the PREFIX/bin, you don't have to do ports-magic. Writting a wrapper is easy, porting linux programs is already hard, and the ports-magic is something which can result in tears when not done correctly. Also don't underestimate the pitfalls with accessing linux libs in the linuxulator when they are in LINUXPREFIX. The best solution would be to rewrite the linux run time linker and get rid of the linux default one, but this is not really a pragmatic solution, we will get hit by problems as soon as something important changes in the linux run time linker, and we don't have the man-power to permanently keep up. The current way of handling the linuxulator things in the ports is not the ideal way, it is a pragmatic way. It's weighting the good and the bad things of the different ways to get it working, and trying to do it in a way which is beneficial to most people. Bye, Alexander. -- Absence makes the heart grow fonder. -- Sextus Aurelius http://www.Leidinger.netAlexander @ Leidinger.net: PGP ID = B0063FE7 http://www.FreeBSD.org netchild @ FreeBSD.org : PGP ID = 72077137 ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: HOW-TO get Flash7 working!
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Alexander Leidinger wrote: Quoting Chuck Robey [EMAIL PROTECTED] (from Thu, 10 Jan 2008 21:05:16 -0500): I actually got the linux flash9 working. Why didn't I post it, put in a patch? Because one of the main reasons that it doesn't work now is the insane way that much Linux libraries are installed. If folks would honor Would you mind telling us how, so that we understand the problem? hier(7) then all linux libs would go into /usr/compat/usr/lib, but instead, many linux ports (including browsers, believe me) install into $(PREFIX)/lib/libsubdir. This means every single linux app that uses linux libs hsa to be run with a shell wrapper, artificially extending the LD_LIBRARY_PATH. Since no porter of an app installing libs knows all the ports that might use their libs, random breakages are the rule of the day, to say nothing of the egregious harm to security this kind of strategy causes. It's a big reason why the flash things don't work. Want proof? Go use the linux ldd to see just how long the list of libraries is, that those extensions use, then you'll begin to see. Not all those libs are browser products, either. Have fun trying to get a wrapper to work there. I volunteered to fix this situation all myself, if only the ports management would give me written agreement that the strategy I decry is in fact bad software practice, so that I may point to that document to port authors, when I ask for permission to edit their work. Ports management hasn't seen fit to reply, or at least, I haven't seen it if they did. I don't intend to force anyone, but without having ports mangement backing, I am NOT going to have this argument with every porter, no way. I tried that once, and at least one fellow told me he thought that requiring every linux application to have it's own wrapper was the cleaner way to go. Huh, if that's so, then I guess I should be stopped anyhow. You think that way? I think you are referring to me here. I think the important part to understand my opinion to install end-user applications into PREFIX instead of LINUXPREFIX (note: linux library ports _have_ to go to LINUXBASE) is missing here. In fact, I have never been at all good at remembering names, to the point that I no longer even try. I haven't the faintest idea (even now) if it was you or not. If it pleases you, though, that's fine, assume away. I don't think I was insulting, I have made enough of an ass of myself in the past to realize the folly of being sarcastic (it always comes back to bite you). No user shall have subdirs of LINUXPREFIX in his path. This would open up Pandorra's box. OK, need to stop you here. I don't know what that LINUXPREFIX item is. I just grepped for it in /usr/ports subdirs Mk, emulators, and www (recursive one), and even did an apropos. I did a bit of googling and found a LINUXPREFIX in some Linux docs, is that the one you're referring to? What's it mean, how's it used? Regardless, please, could you explain why it would open up Pandora's Box? Maybe if I could have a better handle on what it is, I might not ask that question, but I can't, so I'm asking. One item that some might not know: most unixes have a strong bias towards installing everything into /usr/bin or /usr/lib. Many Linux boxes don't even have a /usr/local, or opt, or whatever. Much Linux software makes the assumption that it's using a prefix of /usr. I hate this myself, I MUCH more like FreeBSD's way of doing things, but I can have my cake and eat it too, if Linux software is installed into /compat/linux/usr/bin (and lib, etc), I get the separation as far as FreeBSD is concerned, but Linux software is fooled into obeying their abhorrent lack of separation. Real nice. [Man, your mail is huge, I would have preferred to make it decide things in smaller bits, but I guess not.] Continuing ... A clean way to achieve this is to have something in prefix which calls the linux program. This can be a symlink or a wrapper in PREFIX. If you install parts of a port into LINUXPREFIX and a link/wrapper in PREFIX (or more generic: if you have 2 different prefixes in a port), you have to do some ports-magic. If you install the port in a sub-directory in PREFIX and add a wrapper in the PREFIX/bin, you don't have to do ports-magic. OK. Ab initio, I have always felt that using wrappers was a tacky way to do things. Not that it wasn't sometimes the only available way to go, but certainly to be avoided. I also have always felt that screwing with LD_LIBRARY_PATH, as your wrappers would need to do, is a security problem, which again might sometimes be the best way to go, but not ever the first choice. This is only part of my argument, though (I would be embarrassed if my argument was only based upon my prejudices). The larger real problem is, some ports install libs, and do not know what possible executables might need to have
Re: HOW-TO get Flash7 working!
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Started in -questions, but redirected to -ports with the change in direction of discussion (you'll see). Rudy wrote: Aryeh M. Friedman wrote: rm /usr/ports/distfiles/flashplugin/fp7_archive.zip An other way to fix it in some ways is to run a make makesum to update the distfile checksums The fp7_archive.zip was an odd case were I felt more comfortable deleting it -- hadn't see that error before (and didn't save it to cut and paste). I thought it was only my system, but apparently, others had this same issue with the fp7_archive.zip file. Maybe a new one was released with the same filename on adobe? Would makesum would blindly use what is in the /usr/ports/distfiles -- corrupt, man-in-the-middled, or whatever was there? I've never used makesum... I will RTFM. :) I actually got the linux flash9 working. Why didn't I post it, put in a patch? Because one of the main reasons that it doesn't work now is the insane way that much Linux libraries are installed. If folks would honor hier(7) then all linux libs would go into /usr/compat/usr/lib, but instead, many linux ports (including browsers, believe me) install into $(PREFIX)/lib/libsubdir. This means every single linux app that uses linux libs hsa to be run with a shell wrapper, artificially extending the LD_LIBRARY_PATH. Since no porter of an app installing libs knows all the ports that might use their libs, random breakages are the rule of the day, to say nothing of the egregious harm to security this kind of strategy causes. It's a big reason why the flash things don't work. Want proof? Go use the linux ldd to see just how long the list of libraries is, that those extensions use, then you'll begin to see. Not all those libs are browser products, either. Have fun trying to get a wrapper to work there. I volunteered to fix this situation all myself, if only the ports management would give me written agreement that the strategy I decry is in fact bad software practice, so that I may point to that document to port authors, when I ask for permission to edit their work. Ports management hasn't seen fit to reply, or at least, I haven't seen it if they did. I don't intend to force anyone, but without having ports mangement backing, I am NOT going to have this argument with every porter, no way. I tried that once, and at least one fellow told me he thought that requiring every linux application to have it's own wrapper was the cleaner way to go. Huh, if that's so, then I guess I should be stopped anyhow. You think that way? -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4 (FreeBSD) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHhs7cz62J6PPcoOkRAoKmAJ99iCuZXy1fcQuzaCUvXHCOot+1uACaA3N5 aU6mEKw5AhH3uFUDrp3FH6A= =ku7L -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
