Re: [Freedos-devel] Where is the source code?

[Ralf Quint via Freedos-devel]

On 5/9/2024 3:05 PM, Kirn Gill via Freedos-devel wrote:
Listen, for developer documentation, we should be skipping YouTube 
entirely.  There's absolutely no good developer documentation that's 
shipped in video form. In fact, the medium prevents it.


+1


Ralf



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Re: [Freedos-devel] Where is the source code?

[Bernd Böckmann via Freedos-devel]

> 
> If the written word is a barrier so high that the young people skip dealing 
> with FreeDOS, then how do you expect them to USE the OS to begin with, much 
> less WRITE code for it? (This thread is strictly and solely about developers, 
> not end users, in case you've forgotten.) 

I see it the other way: in a world full of opportunities, what motivation 
should young people have to start developing for DOS, if they do not get 
motivated by some form or another? And here videos work, much better than 
written words. The experience I got by teaching young people how to program is 
that they are generally open-minded regarding this „retro stuff“, but they do 
not start developing for ancient platforms because of some articles or 
documentation, but because of getting shown what can be done, and how much fun 
it can be.

> 
> Did you forget we're talking about DOS here?

Glad you reminded me! Was in the process of forgetting it while working on the 
FreeCOM source. Thanks!

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Re: [Freedos-devel] Where is the source code?

[Kirn Gill via Freedos-devel]

>  We can ensure reaching it by lifting the entry barriers so high that
none of the young people bother dealing with FreeDOS any more.

If the written word is a barrier so high that the young people skip dealing
with FreeDOS, then how do you expect them to USE the OS to begin with, much
less WRITE code for it? (This thread is strictly and solely about
developers, not end users, in case you've forgotten.)

In such a world, FreeDOS has already died because it's a textual command
line, not a GUI full of emojis (say, maybe like the intake nurse's keyboard
of 2505 in the movie Idiocracy)

Did you forget we're talking about DOS here?

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On Fri, May 10, 2024 at 4:03 AM Bernd Böckmann via Freedos-devel <
freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:

>
> > The moment FreeDOS starts pushing video lessons for developer tutorials
> is essentially the day that FreeDOS has died.
>
> Well, that is a little bit of an exaggeration :) FreeDOS has died if
> people stop being interested in it, and with DosBox etc. as alternatives we
> are short of being at this point. We can ensure reaching it by lifting the
> entry barriers so high that none of the young people bother dealing with
> FreeDOS any more.
>
> You have valid points in pointing out that video lessons are perhaps not
> the best learning format for coding, but they definitely catch more
> interest than a five page article. No one requests throwing away the
> available documentation and replace them by videos. But they are a valid
> way of introducing people to topics they are generally interested in. If
> they want more information, they will search for them and probably find
> them in form of articles or books.
>
> You have problems calling it „developer videos“, fine, lets find some
> other name for it…
>
> Greetings, Bernd
>
>
>
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Re: [Freedos-devel] Where is the source code?

[Bernd Böckmann via Freedos-devel]

> The moment FreeDOS starts pushing video lessons for developer tutorials is 
> essentially the day that FreeDOS has died. 

Well, that is a little bit of an exaggeration :) FreeDOS has died if people 
stop being interested in it, and with DosBox etc. as alternatives we are short 
of being at this point. We can ensure reaching it by lifting the entry barriers 
so high that none of the young people bother dealing with FreeDOS any more.

You have valid points in pointing out that video lessons are perhaps not the 
best learning format for coding, but they definitely catch more interest than a 
five page article. No one requests throwing away the available documentation 
and replace them by videos. But they are a valid way of introducing people to 
topics they are generally interested in. If they want more information, they 
will search for them and probably find them in form of articles or books.

You have problems calling it „developer videos“, fine, lets find some other 
name for it… 

Greetings, Bernd



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Re: [Freedos-devel] Where is the source code?

[Kirn Gill via Freedos-devel]

Listen, for developer documentation, we should be skipping YouTube
entirely.  There's absolutely no good developer documentation that's
shipped in video form. In fact, the medium prevents it.

You cannot copy and paste from a video.
You cannot ^F and search through a video.
You have to deal with prerendered text that may be in a terrible font or be
illegibly butchered by video compression (especially depending on the color
schemes used!)
You have to deal with either no subtitles, or machine-generated subtitles
both full of transcription errors and devoid of grammar for the vast
majority of videos. It's very rare that the video uploader will go behind
himself and craft proper subtitles (with proper grammar!) for you to read
(or ^F search through, in the few video-playing environments that allow
that - YouTube is NOT one of them.)
You have to deal with various random spoken accents which can yield the
content unintelligible for some (or even most) viewers.

And absolutely most important:
You are emphasizing spoken language over written language, which is
antithetical to computer programming - a written exercise. Computer code is
nearly exclusively text, you need to think in text, and you thus should
want the educational materials to be majority text, if not exclusively so.
Video content should be limited to small demonstrative clips that are
embedded into an otherwise written document, similar to how Twitter posts
get embedded into news articles. If you struggle with reading, you're
plainly not going to cut it as a software developer, no exceptions - every
single line of code you will ever interact with will have to be read, it
will not be spoken aloud for you. Every line of code you ever write will
be, well, written; you will not speak it aloud.

The moment FreeDOS starts pushing video lessons for developer tutorials is
essentially the day that FreeDOS has died.

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On Wed, May 8, 2024 at 10:29 AM Bernd Böckmann via Freedos-devel <
freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:

>
> > I like that idea. I think a good place to add these would be in the
> > "Technical information" section on that page, maybe as another row of
> > "info boxes" before (or after? not sure) the row that has RBIL, VGA
> > programming, and the Graphics Programming book.
>
> I would put it below Technical Information as another row.
>
> >
> > What are some good YouTube channels about DOS programming that I
> > should point to?
>
> I like the following playlist. He uses Turbo C, PowerBasic, NASM. While he
> does it on DosBox, the skills are transferable. Be aware: heavy german
> accent :)
>
> https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLGJnX2KGgaw2L7Uv5NThlL48G9y4rJx1X
>
>
>
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Re: [Freedos-devel] Where is the source code?

[Liam Proven via Freedos-devel]

On Wed, 8 May 2024 at 09:23, tom ehlert via Freedos-devel
 wrote:
>
> in my version of firefox, there is no "developer" section on www.freedos.org

Oh yes there is. Below the first block of the page is a row of 3
blocks. The third one contains this text, copied from Firefox 125.0.3
right now:

«
For developers

FreeDOS includes lots of programming tools so you can create your own
DOS programs. You can also modify FreeDOS itself, because we include
the source code under an open source license.

_Developers_
»

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Re: [Freedos-devel] Where is the source code?

[tom ehlert via Freedos-devel]

Hallo Herr Ralf Quint via Freedos-devel,

am Mittwoch, 8. Mai 2024 um 20:30 schrieben Sie:

> On 5/8/2024 1:22 AM, tom ehlert via Freedos-devel wrote:
>>> It's on the website, under the "developer" section.
>> in my version of firefox, there is no "developer" section onwww.freedos.org
>>
> Look again, in my Firefox (125.03, on Windows 10/64) it is right below and 
> slightly to the right of the blue "Download FreeDOS 1.3" button, one of those 
> three rather prominent boxes linking to "Playing Game", "Running 
> applications" and, wait for it,  "For Developers". 

you are right, and I was 100% wrong.

I have no idea why I overlooked for so long time...

unfortunately archive.org hasn't archived this website earlier then jan 2 2024, 
so 
I can't see for how long time.

Sorry
Tom



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Re: [Freedos-devel] Where is the source code?

[Mercury Thirteen via Freedos-devel]

Thanks for that! I'm always on the lookout for new retro-adjacent channels, so 
I'll definitely be checking out Root42 in the near future.




Sent with Proton Mail secure email.

On Wednesday, May 8th, 2024 at 12:53 PM, Danilo Pecher via Freedos-devel 
 wrote:

> Probably the best DOS programming channel is root42:
> https://www.youtube.com/@root42
> 
> He also has other retro computing stuff going on, but he does an good
> lot of videos on DOS programming as well.
> 
> Cheers, Hippo
> 
> On Wed, 8 May 2024 at 17:57, Jim Hall via Freedos-devel
> freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, May 8, 2024 at 10:28 AM Bernd Böckmann via Freedos-devel
> > freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net wrote:
> > 
> > > > I like that idea. I think a good place to add these would be in the
> > > > "Technical information" section on that page, maybe as another row of
> > > > "info boxes" before (or after? not sure) the row that has RBIL, VGA
> > > > programming, and the Graphics Programming book.
> > > 
> > > I would put it below Technical Information as another row.
> > 
> > Sounds good! I'll probably use this as a comment right before it:
> > "Looking to get started in DOS programming? These YouTube videos show
> > you how to write your first programs:"
> > 
> > > > What are some good YouTube channels about DOS programming that I
> > > > should point to?
> > > 
> > > I like the following playlist. He uses Turbo C, PowerBasic, NASM. While 
> > > he does it on DosBox, the skills are transferable. Be aware: heavy german 
> > > accent :)
> > > 
> > > https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLGJnX2KGgaw2L7Uv5NThlL48G9y4rJx1X
> > 
> > Thanks for that! I'll be sure to include that one.
> > 
> > Anyone else have other recommendations?
> > 
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> 
> 
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Re: [Freedos-devel] Where is the source code?

[Ralf Quint via Freedos-devel]

On 5/8/2024 1:22 AM, tom ehlert via Freedos-devel wrote:

It's on the website, under the "developer" section.

in my version of firefox, there is no "developer" section onwww.freedos.org

Look again, in my Firefox (125.03, on Windows 10/64) it is right below 
and slightly to the right of the blue "Download FreeDOS 1.3" button, one 
of those three rather prominent boxes linking to "Playing Game", 
"Running applications" and, wait for it,  "For Developers". 



Ralf

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Re: [Freedos-devel] Where is the source code?

[Ralf Quint via Freedos-devel]

On 5/8/2024 8:28 AM, Bernd Böckmann via Freedos-devel wrote:

I like the following playlist. He uses Turbo C, PowerBasic, NASM. While he does 
it on DosBox, the skills are transferable. Be aware: heavy german accent :)


That happens to the best of us... LOL


Ralf
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Re: [Freedos-devel] Where is the source code?

[Danilo Pecher via Freedos-devel]

Probably the best DOS programming channel is root42:
https://www.youtube.com/@root42

He also has other retro computing stuff going on, but he does an good
lot of videos on DOS programming as well.

Cheers, Hippo

On Wed, 8 May 2024 at 17:57, Jim Hall via Freedos-devel
 wrote:
>
> On Wed, May 8, 2024 at 10:28 AM Bernd Böckmann via Freedos-devel
>  wrote:
> >
> >
> > > I like that idea. I think a good place to add these would be in the
> > > "Technical information" section on that page, maybe as another row of
> > > "info boxes" before (or after? not sure) the row that has RBIL, VGA
> > > programming, and the Graphics Programming book.
> >
> > I would put it below Technical Information as another row.
>
>
> Sounds good! I'll probably use this as a comment right before it:
> "Looking to get started in DOS programming? These YouTube videos show
> you how to write your first programs:"
>
>
> > > What are some good YouTube channels about DOS programming that I
> > > should point to?
> >
> > I like the following playlist. He uses Turbo C, PowerBasic, NASM. While he 
> > does it on DosBox, the skills are transferable. Be aware: heavy german 
> > accent :)
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLGJnX2KGgaw2L7Uv5NThlL48G9y4rJx1X
>
>
> Thanks for that! I'll be sure to include that one.
>
> Anyone else have other recommendations?
>
>
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Re: [Freedos-devel] Where is the source code?

[tom ehlert via Freedos-devel]

> I hate to be the one to tell you, but "how Tom navigates a website" is
> not the same as "how many others navigate a website." 

As a matter of fact, Tom navigates the web as any other people:
the way the websites make us use their website leaves usually little choice.

> Today, many more
> people expect to find a "mini 'site navigation' menu" in the footer.
> It's just what they've come to expect; if they can't find a link in
> the main body of the page, they look in the footer for a "mini 'site
> navigation' menu". 

So I went to three major websites: https://arstechnica.com/, 
https://www.washingtonpost.com/
and https://www.nytimes.com/.

All three of them behave similar:

links to other *content* in a navigation bar at the top, 

and another at the bottom for *site related* links like subscribe, unsubscribe, 
contact, ...

and I certainly think that download the sources is a) *content* and b) probably 
deserves a font as 
prominent   as "Play classic games" and "Run applications".

>> now show me a way to locate the command.com sources.
>>
>> or the sources for the DVD driver.


> You're a smart guy and you've been part of FreeDOS for many years.
It shouldn't be a requirement to be a smart guy, and be part of FreeDOS for 
many years to locate freecom sources.
I actually know about the "devel" link for about an hour. And I *often* 
searched for it.

> Click on the "FreeDOS sources" link, and you'll end up at the FreeDOS
> source code archive at . You can find the
> source code there, including command.com ("FreeCOM") and everything
> else. The kernel sources are in there too, but you probably already
> know that.

this is misleading at best.
sooner or later you will accidently click on one subsection where freecom is 
located.
some sort of listing with links to projects would be helpful so the tree would 
be searchable.

Tom



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Re: [Freedos-devel] Where is the source code?

[Jim Hall via Freedos-devel]

On Wed, May 8, 2024 at 10:28 AM Bernd Böckmann via Freedos-devel
 wrote:
>
>
> > I like that idea. I think a good place to add these would be in the
> > "Technical information" section on that page, maybe as another row of
> > "info boxes" before (or after? not sure) the row that has RBIL, VGA
> > programming, and the Graphics Programming book.
>
> I would put it below Technical Information as another row.


Sounds good! I'll probably use this as a comment right before it:
"Looking to get started in DOS programming? These YouTube videos show
you how to write your first programs:"


> > What are some good YouTube channels about DOS programming that I
> > should point to?
>
> I like the following playlist. He uses Turbo C, PowerBasic, NASM. While he 
> does it on DosBox, the skills are transferable. Be aware: heavy german accent 
> :)
>
> https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLGJnX2KGgaw2L7Uv5NThlL48G9y4rJx1X


Thanks for that! I'll be sure to include that one.

Anyone else have other recommendations?


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Re: [Freedos-devel] Where is the source code?

[Jim Hall via Freedos-devel]

Jim Hall wrote:
> > To make this more clear on the website, I've changed the info box
> > title from "Create new programs" to "For developers" - and changed the
> > action link in that info box from "Create programs" to "Developers".
> > I've also changed the "sitenav" link in the website

Tom Ehlert wrote:
> Wow. having "sitenav" at the bottom of the page in 5 point font is really 
> inventive.

It is not 5-point font. The website doesn't set a font size except for
headings and the dates on the news items, so your browser will use
whatever your default font size is set at. On Firefox and Google
Chrome (you said you use Firefox) the website footer renders using the
same font size as the main body text.


> How about having ONE place to navigate the site; maybe near the
> " Read the wiki / Ask a question / Report a bug " location?


I hate to be the one to tell you, but "how Tom navigates a website" is
not the same as "how many others navigate a website." Today, many more
people expect to find a "mini 'site navigation' menu" in the footer.
It's just what they've come to expect; if they can't find a link in
the main body of the page, they look in the footer for a "mini 'site
navigation' menu". We saw this feedback in the usability test reports,
too. So when I updated the website, I made sure to include a "mini
'site navigation' menu" (a list of links to major areas of the
website) in the footer. The menu looks like this:

> Home Wiki Questions Bugs
> About Games Apps Devel


> now show me a way to locate the command.com sources.
>
> or the sources for the DVD driver.


You're a smart guy and you've been part of FreeDOS for many years. I
know you can find it. On the "Developer" page (from an earlier email,
this is now called "For developers" on the main page, and links to
) you'll find a page that has
information and links. AT THE TOP of the page, it says:
"FreeDOS is a collection of programs and utilities, so not everything
is in one place. The FreeDOS kernel is currently maintained by Jeremy
Davis and the source code is on his GitHub. Find other FreeDOS source
code in our GitLab:"

..and then you have links for:

> Kernel sources
> FreeDOS sources
> How to contribute

Click on the "FreeDOS sources" link, and you'll end up at the FreeDOS
source code archive at . You can find the
source code there, including command.com ("FreeCOM") and everything
else. The kernel sources are in there too, but you probably already
know that.


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Re: [Freedos-devel] Where is the source code?

[Bernd Böckmann via Freedos-devel]

> I like that idea. I think a good place to add these would be in the
> "Technical information" section on that page, maybe as another row of
> "info boxes" before (or after? not sure) the row that has RBIL, VGA
> programming, and the Graphics Programming book.

I would put it below Technical Information as another row.

> 
> What are some good YouTube channels about DOS programming that I
> should point to?

I like the following playlist. He uses Turbo C, PowerBasic, NASM. While he does 
it on DosBox, the skills are transferable. Be aware: heavy german accent :)

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLGJnX2KGgaw2L7Uv5NThlL48G9y4rJx1X



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Re: [Freedos-devel] Where is the source code?

[Danilo Pecher via Freedos-devel]

Not to put too fine a point on it, but may I point out that your mail
comes across as somewhat rude? As for your answer: Had you even
bothered to install FreeDOS before kicking up a fuzz, you would have
known that the source code is included in it.

Cheers mate

On Wed, 8 May 2024 at 03:47, Green Fog via Freedos-devel
 wrote:
>
> I neither can find the source code in www.freedos.org or sourceforge.net. Is 
> this an open source project or not? I highly suggest that the source code 
> download link to be included in your main page.
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Re: [Freedos-devel] Where is the source code?

[Jim Hall via Freedos-devel]

On Wed, May 8, 2024 at 9:32 AM Bernd Böckmann via Freedos-devel
 wrote:
>
>
> > To make this more clear on the website, I've changed the info box
> > title from "Create new programs" to "For developers" - and changed the
> > action link in that info box from "Create programs" to "Developers".
> > I've also changed the "sitenav" link in the website footer from
> > "Create" to "Devel". And I changed the web page title on the
> > https://www.freedos.org/about/devel/ page from "Create new programs"
> > to "For developers" to match the info box title from the main page.
>
> I think this is an improvement!
>
> In a time where for most young programmers YouTube is their primary
> source of information it is perhaps a good idea to place a few YouTube
> channels regarding DOS programming more prominently on the developer
> section, including Jims?

I like that idea. I think a good place to add these would be in the
"Technical information" section on that page, maybe as another row of
"info boxes" before (or after? not sure) the row that has RBIL, VGA
programming, and the Graphics Programming book.

What are some good YouTube channels about DOS programming that I
should point to?


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Re: [Freedos-devel] Where is the source code?

[tom ehlert via Freedos-devel]

Hallo Herr Jim Hall via Freedos-devel,

am Mittwoch, 8. Mai 2024 um 15:43 schrieben Sie:

> On Wed, May 8, 2024 at 3:23 AM tom ehlert via Freedos-devel
>  wrote:
>>
>>
>> > On Tue, May 7, 2024, 8:46 PM Green Fog via Freedos-devel <
>> > freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:
>>
>> >> I neither can find the source code in www.freedos.org or sourceforge.net.
>> >> Is this an open source project or not? I highly suggest that the source
>> >> code download link to be included in your main page.
>> >>
>>
>>
>> > It's on the website, under the "developer" section.
>>
>> in my version of firefox, there is no "developer" section on www.freedos.org
>>
>>
>> > In the info box where it says:
>>
>> *>>>Create new programs*
>> *>>>FreeDOS includes lots of compilers, assemblers, and other programming
>> > tools so you can create your own DOS programs. You can also modify FreeDOS
>> > itself, because we include the source code under an open source license.*
>> *>>>*
>> *>>>Create programs*
>>
>>
>> > ..click on the link, and you'll find a page with more information and links
>> > to the source code.
>>


> And yet you quoted back to me the text from the "info box" that has
> the link about where to find the "developer" section?

I quoted from your email.


> To make this more clear on the website, I've changed the info box
> title from "Create new programs" to "For developers" - and changed the
> action link in that info box from "Create programs" to "Developers".
> I've also changed the "sitenav" link in the website
Wow. having "sitenav" at the bottom of the page in 5 point font is really 
inventive.

How about having ONE place to navigate the site; maybe near the 
" Read the wiki / Ask a question / Report a bug " location?

now show me a way to locate the command.com sources.

or the sources for the DVD driver.


Tom



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Re: [Freedos-devel] Where is the source code?

[Bernd Böckmann via Freedos-devel]

> To make this more clear on the website, I've changed the info box
> title from "Create new programs" to "For developers" - and changed the
> action link in that info box from "Create programs" to "Developers".
> I've also changed the "sitenav" link in the website footer from
> "Create" to "Devel". And I changed the web page title on the
> https://www.freedos.org/about/devel/ page from "Create new programs"
> to "For developers" to match the info box title from the main page.

I think this is an improvement!

In a time where for most young programmers YouTube is their primary source of 
information it is perhaps a good idea to place a few YouTube channels regarding 
DOS programming more prominently on the developer section, including Jims?

Greetings, Bernd



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Re: [Freedos-devel] Where is the source code?

[Jim Hall via Freedos-devel]

On Wed, May 8, 2024 at 3:23 AM tom ehlert via Freedos-devel
 wrote:
>
>
> > On Tue, May 7, 2024, 8:46 PM Green Fog via Freedos-devel <
> > freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:
>
> >> I neither can find the source code in www.freedos.org or sourceforge.net.
> >> Is this an open source project or not? I highly suggest that the source
> >> code download link to be included in your main page.
> >>
>
>
> > It's on the website, under the "developer" section.
>
> in my version of firefox, there is no "developer" section on www.freedos.org
>
>
> > In the info box where it says:
>
> *>>>Create new programs*
> *>>>FreeDOS includes lots of compilers, assemblers, and other programming
> > tools so you can create your own DOS programs. You can also modify FreeDOS
> > itself, because we include the source code under an open source license.*
> *>>>*
> *>>>Create programs*
>
>
> > ..click on the link, and you'll find a page with more information and links
> > to the source code.
>


And yet you quoted back to me the text from the "info box" that has
the link about where to find the "developer" section?


To make this more clear on the website, I've changed the info box
title from "Create new programs" to "For developers" - and changed the
action link in that info box from "Create programs" to "Developers".
I've also changed the "sitenav" link in the website footer from
"Create" to "Devel". And I changed the web page title on the
https://www.freedos.org/about/devel/ page from "Create new programs"
to "For developers" to match the info box title from the main page.


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Re: [Freedos-devel] Where is the source code?

[tom ehlert via Freedos-devel]

> On Tue, May 7, 2024, 8:46 PM Green Fog via Freedos-devel <
> freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:

>> I neither can find the source code in www.freedos.org or sourceforge.net.
>> Is this an open source project or not? I highly suggest that the source
>> code download link to be included in your main page.
>>


> It's on the website, under the "developer" section.

in my version of firefox, there is no "developer" section on www.freedos.org


> In the info box where it says:

*>>>Create new programs*
*>>>FreeDOS includes lots of compilers, assemblers, and other programming
> tools so you can create your own DOS programs. You can also modify FreeDOS
> itself, because we include the source code under an open source license.*
*>>>*
*>>>Create programs*


> ..click on the link, and you'll find a page with more information and links
> to the source code.


> I put this here because usability testing showed that people expected to
> find FreeDOS source code in a place where developers would find other info
> about *developing programs on FreeDOS*.





Mit freundlichen Grüßen / with kind regards
Tom Ehlert
+49-15151898538



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Re: [Freedos-devel] Where is the source code?

[Jim Hall via Freedos-devel]

On Tue, May 7, 2024, 10:20 PM Jim Hall  wrote:

>
>
> On Tue, May 7, 2024, 8:46 PM Green Fog via Freedos-devel <
> freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:
>
>> I neither can find the source code in www.freedos.org or sourceforge.net.
>> Is this an open source project or not? I highly suggest that the source
>> code download link to be included in your main page.
>>
>
>
> It's on the website, under the "developer" section.
> [..]
>


I'll add that you can automatically install the source code when you
install FreeDOS. It is one of the installation options, very easy to find.

>
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Re: [Freedos-devel] Where is the source code?

[Jim Hall via Freedos-devel]

On Tue, May 7, 2024, 8:46 PM Green Fog via Freedos-devel <
freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:

> I neither can find the source code in www.freedos.org or sourceforge.net.
> Is this an open source project or not? I highly suggest that the source
> code download link to be included in your main page.
>


It's on the website, under the "developer" section.

In the info box where it says:

*>>Create new programs*
*>>FreeDOS includes lots of compilers, assemblers, and other programming
tools so you can create your own DOS programs. You can also modify FreeDOS
itself, because we include the source code under an open source license.*
*>>*
*>>Create programs*


..click on the link, and you'll find a page with more information and links
to the source code.


I put this here because usability testing showed that people expected to
find FreeDOS source code in a place where developers would find other info
about *developing programs on FreeDOS*.
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