Re: [FRIAM] My charity is more effective than your charity!

[Steve Smith]

I think you should *build* a video game based on your thorax... or a 
projection of it's 4D-ness...  and uses Dr. Seuss's "Lorax" as a theme 
for the narrative!

OsiriX is good for MRIs (DICOM files).   MIALite is a segmentation plugin for 
it that works.   Some of the OsiriX plugins have bitrot and crash the browser.  
Give your GPU  something [cough] useful to do other than [cough] gaming.
Don't know about segment tracking over time.   Might have to write that..

-Original Message-
From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of glen
Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2015 4:36 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] My charity is more effective than your charity!

On 07/07/2015 02:47 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:

I think your thorax is at least a 4D object!

Since I get copies of all the images on CD, I've thought about doing a 3D 
animation.  It might be a bit difficult to interpolate between scans.  But 
surely there are established methods for doing it.  I just need to quit playing 
video games long enough to do the work.

--
⇔ glen


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Re: [FRIAM] My charity is more effective than your charity!

[Marcus Daniels]

OsiriX is good for MRIs (DICOM files).   MIALite is a segmentation plugin for 
it that works.   Some of the OsiriX plugins have bitrot and crash the browser.  
Give your GPU  something [cough] useful to do other than [cough] gaming.
Don't know about segment tracking over time.   Might have to write that.. 

-Original Message-
From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of glen
Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2015 4:36 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] My charity is more effective than your charity!

On 07/07/2015 02:47 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> I think your thorax is at least a 4D object!

Since I get copies of all the images on CD, I've thought about doing a 3D 
animation.  It might be a bit difficult to interpolate between scans.  But 
surely there are established methods for doing it.  I just need to quit playing 
video games long enough to do the work.

--
⇔ glen


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Re: [FRIAM] [EXTERNAL] Re: DOH!

[Arlo Barnes]

Another example of something that is unambiguously a game, due to the
competitive and puzzle-like nature it has, and is also (perhaps
unrelatedly) useful, due to the research potential of it, is Foldit
.
-Arlo James Barnes

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Re: [FRIAM] My charity is more effective than your charity!

[glen]

On 07/07/2015 02:47 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:

I think your thorax is at least a 4D object!


Since I get copies of all the images on CD, I've thought about doing a 3D 
animation.  It might be a bit difficult to interpolate between scans.  But 
surely there are established methods for doing it.  I just need to quit playing 
video games long enough to do the work.

--
⇔ glen


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Re: [FRIAM] My charity is more effective than your charity!

[Marcus Daniels]

"We went to dinner at a friend's place on the 4th.  I explained how happy my 
oncologist and my research nurse were that a few of my periaortic lymph nodes 
had shrunk by a miniscule amount between the last scan (6 months ago) and this 
latest one.  And I (again) floated my skepticism, which is based on the fact 
that they only measured in 2 dimensions ... yet my thorax is a 3D object.  And, 
thank the gods, I've gained all the weight I lost during my chemo.  So, it 
seems completely reasonable that a 2D projection of a 3D object may not take 
into account any rotation or compression due to, e.g. an increase in visceral 
fat."

In observing a few neurologists, it doesn't seem common yet to do automated 3D 
reconstructions or  isolate spatial anomalies with boundary inference 
techniques.   They just step through the slices.  Or in your case, one of them. 
I guess they get used to doing it one way, develop protocols around it, and 
they tend to stick around a long time.  

I think your thorax is at least a 4D object!   (Enter a dozen e-mails on what 
an "object" really is or is not..)

Marcus


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[FRIAM] My charity is more effective than your charity!

[glen]

  The Logic of Effective Altruism
  http://bostonreview.net/forum/peter-singer-logic-effective-altruism

This seems like a nice addition to recent arguments here on friam re: usefulness, the ontology of ideas, 
import of philosophy, the existence of the One True Truth, etc.  "Effective Altruism" smacks of the 
same sense of arrogance I get from people who think they or their ideas actually matter or even mean anything 
at all.  This brinkmanship idea many seem to have that "What I'm doing is important!" ... or at the 
very least "What I do is more XYZ than what you do."  I see it time and again when I admit my 
ignorance of things I'm expected to act macho about ... things like facility with math or knowing how to 
grill hamburgers.

We went to dinner at a friend's place on the 4th.  I explained how happy my oncologist 
and my research nurse were that a few of my periaortic lymph nodes had shrunk by a 
miniscule amount between the last scan (6 months ago) and this latest one.  And I (again) 
floated my skepticism, which is based on the fact that they only measured in 2 dimensions 
... yet my thorax is a 3D object.  And, thank the gods, I've gained all the weight I lost 
during my chemo.  So, it seems completely reasonable that a 2D projection of a 3D object 
may not take into account any rotation or compression due to, e.g. an increase in 
visceral fat.  The male counterpart, who works in medicine though I won't say how to 
preserve his anonymity, proceeded to mansplain to me that CT scans are actually 3D things 
and that you can assemble the slices to construct a 3D perspective. [sigh]  I just nodded 
and drank my beer ... because we still had several hours we had to hang out with them, 
including going to a "special place"
he knew of to watch fireworks for free ... because, you know, paying for things 
just makes you one of the rubes.

--
⇔ glen


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Re: [FRIAM] [EXTERNAL] Re: DOH!

[Parks, Raymond]

I would postulate that, especially in the last 200 years, communication has 
been a significant or, possibly, most significant agent of change in terms of 
violence.  Even in the prestate societies (whatever that means), some if not 
most people would not see a violent death or the results - 500 per 100,000 
means you would have had a 0.5% chance, all things being equal.  As people 
collected together into larger communities and, eventually, states/countries, 
the all things being equal would change - even if you didn't see the violent 
death you heard about it.

In the last 200 years, there has been a significant change in communication.  
Knowledge of violent death has become increasingly accessible.  Early 
telegraphs and newspapers of the early 19th Century showed violent deaths to 
more people than had ever previously seen it or heard about it through oral 
communication.  Henry Crabb Robinson, for example, contributed war news from 
Napoleons Spanish and German campaigns to The Times of London.  With the advent 
of wired telegraphy, violent death literally came home to people.  William 
Howard Russell was able to send his dispatches to The Times from the Crimean 
War via submarine cable to Varna, Bulgaria, and from there through French 
circuits to Austria in weeks after battles.  People at home in England were 
exposed to violent death in the war zone in a relatively short time and in more 
detail.  The addition of photography made violent death during the US War 
Between the States more real to the folks back on the farm - real pictures of 
real death along with written accounts were delivered within days of 
occurrence.  The trend has only continued, with movies (who remembers the 
newsreels at the cinema?), radio, television, and now Internet videos bringing 
violent death to viewers in near real-time.

I postulate that the effect of seeing and hearing of violence more often and in 
greater and greater detail has led to the reluctance of committing violence.  
Presumably, prestate societies had on the order of 1000 or so people involved 
with the 500 per 100,000 violent deaths.  As more people saw or heard about 
violent deaths in graphic detail (rather than a sterile announcement), that 
number of people has increased.  Nowadays, I would expect the number of people 
who have seen the details of violent death to be on the order of 10,000 out of 
that 100,000, even though the number of such deaths has decreased.

In my personal experience, people who have seen (or, especially, caused) 
violent death are reluctant to cause it again.  Thus, my hypothesis that 
exposure to violent death through improved communications is a major factor in 
the reduction in the rate of violent death.

Ray Parks
Consilient Heuristician/IDART Old-Timer
V: 505-844-4024  M: 505-238-9359  P: 505-951-6084
NIPR: rcpa...@sandia.gov
SIPR: rcpar...@sandia.doe.sgov.gov (send 
NIPR reminder)
JWICS: dopa...@doe.ic.gov (send NIPR reminder)



On Jul 6, 2015, at 7:09 PM, Curt McNamara wrote:


http://m.gapminder.org/videos/200-years-that-changed-the-world/

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-decline-of-violence/

Curt


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Re: [FRIAM] Games!

[Curt McNamara]

http://www.onlinecolleges.net/50-great-sites-for-serious-educational-games/

http://www.forbes.com/sites/danieltack/2013/09/12/serious-games-and-the-future-of-education/

Curt
On Jul 7, 2015 12:38 PM, "Gillian Densmore"  wrote:

> @Cody As to video games, I submit they're somewhat useful or at least can
> be depending on what you consider useful of course. SimCity (for example),
> EverQuest(was is/was) believe it or not used in Leadership, and Project
> Management courses-basicly build a city and what do you do when something
> goes wrong.
> if I recall someone years ago from someone Orion Games talked at the
> Complex showing real world examples of fire-fighters, and pilots used
> Flight sims to help with training.
>
>
> World of Warcraft and other Massive Online Sims (or MMO/ MMORPG/ MMOAs)
> are often used as part of "humanistic design"  resliance studies,
> leadership studies as well because you are in a group. How do you have to
> take criticism. How do you handle it? Can you get a group together?  etc. I
> am unclear how useful those life skills are, but leadership skills and
> someway to be somewhat self reliant and managing tasks is likely at least
> somewhat useful in day-to-day life.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 9:43 AM, Marcus Daniels 
> wrote:
>
>> Yup, one of the arguments in the list of reasons-gaming-is-good TED talks
>> was that they can be engaging as an educational tool.
>>
>> But you're clearly just trying to horrify me now.:-)
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of glen
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2015 8:53 AM
>> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] DOH!
>>
>>
>> Heh, as if the argument weren't absurd enough already, there's this:
>>
>>Is Facebook the next frontier for online learning?
>>
>> http://msutoday.msu.edu/news/2015/is-facebook-the-next-frontier-for-online-learning/
>>
>> I try to avoid facebook, despite my omnivorism.  But "when in Rome"...
>>
>> --
>> ⇒⇐ glen e. p. ropella
>> I got my face in the furnace, I got my snake in a sleeve
>>
>>
>> 
>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>> 
>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>>
>
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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>

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Re: [FRIAM] DOH!

[Gillian Densmore]

@Cody As to video games, I submit they're somewhat useful or at least can
be depending on what you consider useful of course. SimCity (for example),
EverQuest(was is/was) believe it or not used in Leadership, and Project
Management courses-basicly build a city and what do you do when something
goes wrong.
if I recall someone years ago from someone Orion Games talked at the
Complex showing real world examples of fire-fighters, and pilots used
Flight sims to help with training.


World of Warcraft and other Massive Online Sims (or MMO/ MMORPG/ MMOAs) are
often used as part of "humanistic design"  resliance studies, leadership
studies as well because you are in a group. How do you have to take
criticism. How do you handle it? Can you get a group together?  etc. I am
unclear how useful those life skills are, but leadership skills and someway
to be somewhat self reliant and managing tasks is likely at least somewhat
useful in day-to-day life.






On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 9:43 AM, Marcus Daniels  wrote:

> Yup, one of the arguments in the list of reasons-gaming-is-good TED talks
> was that they can be engaging as an educational tool.
>
> But you're clearly just trying to horrify me now.:-)
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of glen
> Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2015 8:53 AM
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] DOH!
>
>
> Heh, as if the argument weren't absurd enough already, there's this:
>
>Is Facebook the next frontier for online learning?
>
> http://msutoday.msu.edu/news/2015/is-facebook-the-next-frontier-for-online-learning/
>
> I try to avoid facebook, despite my omnivorism.  But "when in Rome"...
>
> --
> ⇒⇐ glen e. p. ropella
> I got my face in the furnace, I got my snake in a sleeve
>
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>

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Re: [FRIAM] Greek Crisis & Philosophy

[Marcus Daniels]

If Greece is unmoored from the Eurozone, there's still NATO.   The sharp end of 
the stick on that isn't Germany.

From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Pamela McCorduck
Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2015 10:13 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Greek Crisis & Philosophy

Post World War II Germany was horrible for a couple of years with exactly the 
kinds of problems you mention, Nick: penicillin could only be had on the black 
market (i.e., from unscrupulous GIs); food was scarce; labor was mostly women 
moving bricks from bombed buildings by hand (die Trummelfrauen).  Then came the 
Marshall Plan. But Thomas Piketty has complained (to one of the major German 
newspapers yesterday) that Germany was forgiven its debts in 1950, when it was 
clear the country could never pay it off-only then came the Wirtschaftswunder, 
the Economic Miracle.

Plenty of blame to go around here. And if Greece is unmoored from Europe, you 
can see Putin moving in-naval bases, missiles, even. He's a nasty character to 
get into bed with, but when no one else offers you a blanket...




On Jul 6, 2015, at 10:45 PM, Nick Thompson 
mailto:nickthomp...@earthlink.net>> wrote:


Marcus,

Perhaps!  Everything I hear suggests that even tho withdrawals are limited to 
60 bucks a day, the Greek banks will go down this week.  Am I missing 
something?  I assume that a lot of people are going to starve, die of heat 
stroke in buildings that weren't designed for no air-conditioning, in hospitals 
that don't have antibiotics, etc. etc.  I assume there will be a blossoming of 
far right and far left parties.  Rioting, and bloodshed?  Why WOULDN'T there 
be?  What do you know that I don't know?

Think of what might have happened in post WWII Germany without the Marshall 
Plan.

N

Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
Clark University
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Marcus Daniels
Sent: Monday, July 06, 2015 11:16 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Greek Crisis & Philosophy

"Anybody who lived through wwII knows that a heap of trouble can follow when a 
whole people is thrown to the dogs, as was the German population after WWI.   
Or for that matter, the American South after the Civil War.   I am hoping for a 
positive response from the EU at this point."

Could Greece better grow its economy with autonomy?   Is it the same thing as 
being thrown to the dogs?

Marcus


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Re: [FRIAM] Greek Crisis & Philosophy

[Robert J. Cordingley]

It used to bug my British parents that Germany's factories got rebuilt 
out of the Marshall Plan deal while Britain's, that were also heavily 
bombed, didn't. Think of the impact that must have had on the economic 
competitiveness of the two countries for a long time.  However, as a 
means to avoid any repeat of the WWI reparations disaster (ie the rise 
of the Third Reich) it probably was a good idea at the time. I'm with 
Paul Krugman 
.


I wonder if Tsipiras would ever play a Putin card. Greece is a member of 
NATO which presumably would remain unchanged with a Grexit but who knows 
what economic commitments might ensue.  However, it was suggested 
(perhaps by Krugman) that Russia's economy may itself not be in a very 
fit state to supply any meaningful benefit to Greece. But I don't think 
the EU/US should get complacent over any of this.


Robert C



On 7/7/15 10:13 AM, Pamela McCorduck wrote:
Post World War II Germany was horrible for a couple of years with 
exactly the kinds of problems you mention, Nick: penicillin could only 
be had on the black market (i.e., from unscrupulous GIs); food was 
scarce; labor was mostly women moving bricks from bombed buildings by 
hand (die Trummelfrauen).  Then came the Marshall Plan. But Thomas 
Piketty has complained (to one of the major German newspapers 
yesterday) that Germany was forgiven its debts in 1950, when it was 
clear the country could never pay it off—only then came the 
Wirtschaftswunder, the Economic Miracle.


Plenty of blame to go around here. And if Greece is unmoored from 
Europe, you can see Putin moving in—naval bases, missiles, even. He’s 
a nasty character to get into bed with, but when no one else offers 
you a blanket...





On Jul 6, 2015, at 10:45 PM, Nick Thompson > wrote:



Marcus,
Perhaps! Everything I hear suggests that even tho withdrawals are 
limited to 60 bucks a day, the Greek banks will go down this week.  
Am I missing something?  I assume that a lot of people are going to 
starve, die of heat stroke in buildings that weren’t designed for no 
air-conditioning, in hospitals that don’t have antibiotics, etc. 
etc.  I assume there will be a blossoming of far right and far left 
parties. Rioting, and bloodshed?  Why WOULDN’T there be? What do you 
know that I don’t know?
Think of what might have happened in post WWII Germany without the 
Marshall Plan.

N
Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
Clark University
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ 

*From:*Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com]*On Behalf Of*Marcus 
Daniels

*Sent:*Monday, July 06, 2015 11:16 PM
*To:*The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
*Subject:*Re: [FRIAM] Greek Crisis & Philosophy
“Anybody who lived through wwII knows that a heap of trouble can 
follow when a whole people is thrown to the dogs, as was the German 
population after WWI.   Or for that matter, the American South after 
the Civil War.   I am hoping for a positive response from the EU at 
this point.”
Could Greece better grow its economy with autonomy? Is it the same 
thing as being thrown to the dogs?

Marcus

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
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--
Cirrillian Web Development
Santa Fe, NM
http://cirrillian.com
281-989-6272 (cell)


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Re: [FRIAM] Greek Crisis & Philosophy

[glen ep ropella]

On 07/07/2015 09:13 AM, Pamela McCorduck wrote:

Plenty of blame to go around here. And if Greece is unmoored from Europe, you 
can see Putin moving in—naval bases, missiles, even. He’s a nasty character to 
get into bed with, but when no one else offers you a blanket...


  Greece Can Join BRICS as a Growing Economy - Official
  http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150707/1024309291.html

--
glen ep ropella -- 971-255-2847


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Re: [FRIAM] Greek Crisis & Philosophy

[Pamela McCorduck]

Post World War II Germany was horrible for a couple of years with exactly the 
kinds of problems you mention, Nick: penicillin could only be had on the black 
market (i.e., from unscrupulous GIs); food was scarce; labor was mostly women 
moving bricks from bombed buildings by hand (die Trummelfrauen).  Then came the 
Marshall Plan. But Thomas Piketty has complained (to one of the major German 
newspapers yesterday) that Germany was forgiven its debts in 1950, when it was 
clear the country could never pay it off—only then came the Wirtschaftswunder, 
the Economic Miracle.

Plenty of blame to go around here. And if Greece is unmoored from Europe, you 
can see Putin moving in—naval bases, missiles, even. He’s a nasty character to 
get into bed with, but when no one else offers you a blanket...




On Jul 6, 2015, at 10:45 PM, Nick Thompson  wrote:

> Marcus,
>  
> Perhaps!  Everything I hear suggests that even tho withdrawals are limited to 
> 60 bucks a day, the Greek banks will go down this week.  Am I missing 
> something?  I assume that a lot of people are going to starve, die of heat 
> stroke in buildings that weren’t designed for no air-conditioning, in 
> hospitals that don’t have antibiotics, etc. etc.  I assume there will be a 
> blossoming of far right and far left parties.  Rioting, and bloodshed?  Why 
> WOULDN’T there be?  What do you know that I don’t know?
>  
> Think of what might have happened in post WWII Germany without the Marshall 
> Plan. 
>  
> N
>  
> Nicholas S. Thompson
> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
> Clark University
> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
>  
> From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Marcus Daniels
> Sent: Monday, July 06, 2015 11:16 PM
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Greek Crisis & Philosophy
>  
> “Anybody who lived through wwII knows that a heap of trouble can follow when 
> a whole people is thrown to the dogs, as was the German population after WWI. 
>   Or for that matter, the American South after the Civil War.   I am hoping 
> for a positive response from the EU at this point.”
>  
> Could Greece better grow its economy with autonomy?   Is it the same thing as 
> being thrown to the dogs?
>  
> Marcus
>  
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com


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Re: [FRIAM] DOH!

[Marcus Daniels]

Yup, one of the arguments in the list of reasons-gaming-is-good TED talks was 
that they can be engaging as an educational tool.

But you're clearly just trying to horrify me now.:-)

-Original Message-
From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of glen
Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2015 8:53 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] DOH!


Heh, as if the argument weren't absurd enough already, there's this:

   Is Facebook the next frontier for online learning?
   
http://msutoday.msu.edu/news/2015/is-facebook-the-next-frontier-for-online-learning/

I try to avoid facebook, despite my omnivorism.  But "when in Rome"...

-- 
⇒⇐ glen e. p. ropella
I got my face in the furnace, I got my snake in a sleeve



FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

Re: [FRIAM] DOH!

[glen]

Heh, as if the argument weren't absurd enough already, there's this:

   Is Facebook the next frontier for online learning?
   
http://msutoday.msu.edu/news/2015/is-facebook-the-next-frontier-for-online-learning/

I try to avoid facebook, despite my omnivorism.  But "when in Rome"...

-- 
⇒⇐ glen e. p. ropella
I got my face in the furnace, I got my snake in a sleeve



FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

Re: [FRIAM] Greek Crisis & Philosophy

[David Eric Smith]

Hi All,

The argument that the relation of Greece, Spain, and Italy, and to some extent 
France, to Germany and Holland within the EU is analogous to that of the 
southern-agrarian states to the northern-industrial states in the US since the 
revolutionary war is one that I remember first seeing by Paul Krugman long ago, 
I think in the book of lectures "Geography and Trade".

http://www.amazon.com/Geography-Trade-Gaston-Eyskens-Lectures/dp/0262610868/ref=la_B000APS32M_1_33?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1436270724&sr=1-33&refinements=p_82%3AB000APS32M

The initial form of the argument, if I remember correctly, had more to do with 
development economics, production of real goods, and market power and ability 
to dictate the terms of trade.  Krugman argued that if the US South had not 
been at a disadvantage to the US North, they would have instead been at a 
disadvantage to England (had the secession succeeded), and no better off or 
really even much different than they wound up after the secession failed.  
There are still brief snippets of this view that come up in Krugman's NYT 
column, but the modern versions that I hear from him have much more to do with 
the specifics of monetary mechanisms such as deliberate currency devaluation to 
keep balances of payments within manageable levels.  

I would not be able to say that Krugman's position on this today is the same as 
it was coming into the 1990s.  Nor do I have enough of a sense of 
macroeconomics to have an opinion of my own whether he is right.  But a more 
systematic layout of the argument than brief columns and emails is something I 
have found helpful.  This was the book that first got me reading Krugman, when 
a physics-professor friend recommended it to me as one of the few economics 
sources for the layman that he thought he could understand.

Eric



On Jul 6, 2015, at 8:43 PM, Gary Schiltz wrote:

> The term “states' rights” refers to the fervent belief, especially among 
> conservatives in the USA, that US states are granted by the US Constitution a 
> large amount of autonomy from the US federal government. A corrolary to this 
> is that the US federal government should have very limited powers, and that 
> the majority of power is vested in the individual states. This type of 
> conservatism has a large hold over the American South, thus my earlier 
> tongue-in-cheek message about Mississippi and Alabama printing their own 
> money with confederate flags on them. I have assumed that whoever started 
> this thread was drawing a parallel between the (states as part of the USA) 
> and  (Greece as part of the European Union). Greece has basically told the EU 
> to go screw itself, as it can’t make its loan repayments on time.
> 
> Come on Nick, I know this stuff and I live in a South American country. Y’all 
> need to get out more, maybe go to a square dance or do a little cow tipping. 
> JUST KIDDING
> 
> On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 9:06 PM, Nick Thompson  
> wrote:
> To be absolutely honest, I don’t know what The EU now faces "state's rights". 
> Means.  Can somebody explain? 
> 
>  
> 
> N
> 
>  
> 
> Nicholas S. Thompson
> 
> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
> 
> Clark University
> 
> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
> 
>  
> 
> From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Alfredo Covaleda 
> Vélez
> Sent: Monday, July 06, 2015 1:04 PM
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Greek Crisis & Philosophy
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> 2015-07-06 11:46 GMT-05:00 Owen Densmore :
> 
> I love the No vote. The EU now faces "state's rights".
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Where I have seen this before?
> 
>  
> 
> Just fill the blank: The  __ now faces "state's rights". 
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>-- Owen
> 
>  
> 
> On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 7:23 PM, Marcus Daniels  wrote:
> 
> When it comes to U.S. revenue vs. spending, perhaps some states in the red 
> (as opposed to red states!) should worry about getting cut off by Washington? 
>  Now, New Mexico has a certain amount of visibility to Washington, but what 
> about Mississippi, Alabama and Kentucky?  One might imagine North Dakota 
> could turn it around with fracking tax revenue.One can imagine that 
> Greeks probably don’t like being treated like Kentucky.   I’m sure Kentucky 
> is nice,  and they wouldn’t like to switch to their own currency.  Or maybe 
> they would!
> 
>  
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_taxation_and_spending_by_state
> 
>  
> 
> From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Robert J. 
> Cordingley
> Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2015 5:06 PM
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> Subject: [FRIAM] Greek Crisis & Philosophy
> 
>  
> 
> As part of my continuing search for understanding how the world works and the 
> role of philosophy... 
> 
> 1st question: It's been pointed out in a recent Washington Post article that 
> the fundamental problem in the current Gree