Re: surge suppressors revisited
At 9:06 AM -0400 6/23/05, Peter Saint James wrote: Several months ago, we discussed using or not using surge suppressors with Powerbooks, and I found out the hard way that we came to an erroneous conclusion. We concluded that the power adapter would protect the Powerbook from a surge. Turns out this is not true. I have to admit that the surge to my book was a big one. A bolt of lightening hit near my house. It knocked out the surge suppressor then continued on, zapping the printer, other items that were plugged into it, and my powerbook. Well, there are surges, and then there are surges. A surge protector will protect your kit against things like switching transients and the like - the typical kind of thing that happens on a distribution system, but it would be an inappropriate expectation if you thought that it could protect you against a close lightning strike. Just consider for a moment what's going on. You have a bolt of lightning that has the potential to overcome the insulating value of a layer of air that's a mile or more thick. If it strikes the distribution line near your house, it has a path to all of your appliances (with only the distribution transformer to mitigate the intensity). If it hits the secondary side of the transformer (your service drop) then you're really in for a blast. Even unplugging the appliances isn't a guarantee that they would be spared. The surge can jump the gap between the plug socket and the end of the cord on the floor (remember, it just jumped a gap of a mile, so this gap of a foot is nothing). And it can certainly pass through and destroy your surge protector, fusing metal on the way. There is a tremendous amount of energy in a lightning strike, and to think that some little circuit in a plastic box is going to stop it is sheer folly. About two years ago we had an incident here where I live in which there was a lightning strike near a home (occupants were at work) and when the owners returned they found most of their appliances - TV, Fridge, stereo, etc. - totally destroyed. They were lucky that the house didn't burn down. What can you do? Well, if you are worried about a close strike, you should power down all of the computer gear, then unplug the cords and move them away from the wall outlet as far as you can. If you have a laptop, either use it on a battery or shut it off too. If you get a lightning strike just outside of the house the air around you will have a very high field strength, and it could damage your computer even if it is unplugged. You'll feel it on your skin. Remember, we're talking about tens of millions of volts here. And relatively speaking it doesn't take a lot of voltage to damage silicon. Putting the PowerBook in a metal box would help. Mostly lightning doesn't strike close enough to worry about. And it more often than not strikes a tree as opposed to the distribution system. And strikes on the secondary would be even more rare. So statistically you are not likely to become a victim of the lightning surge, but it can happen, and when it does, if it's close, you'll be lucky if you don't get some damage. I know of no commercial product that would protect your computer gear from lightning if the strike is just outside your house. The brochure may say it will, but you can take it to the bank that lightning doesn't know what the brochure says. - web P.S. I used to be a utility engineer and for three years I did the protective device coordination for the provincial power utility. Trust me, lightning is impressively powerful. -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com ---
Re: surge suppressors revisited
On Jun 23, 2005, at 9:06 AM, Peter Saint James wrote: Several months ago, we discussed using or not using surge suppressors with Powerbooks, and I found out the hard way that we came to an erroneous conclusion. We concluded that the power adapter would protect the Powerbook from a surge. Turns out this is not true. I have to admit that the surge to my book was a big one. A bolt of lightening hit near my house. It knocked out the surge suppressor then continued on, zapping the printer, other items that were plugged into it, and my powerbook. The power adapter was indeed fried. Replacing it didn't solve problems, however. Apple replaced the motherboard, and it now seems to be working okay. Fortunately, AppleCare covered it. It still bothers me that the manual is mute on this subject and even includes an illustration showing the power adapter plugged directly into the wall socket. It also seems odd to me that computers don't come equipped with surge suppressors. Surge protectors can't handle the surges created by a close lightening strike as you learned. I doubt a surge protector would have changed your outcome. As to why computers aren't equipped with surge protectors, that is easy. They wear out. Each time a surge is clamped, a little of its usefulness is depleted. They need to be replaced frequently. david -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- It's the people who are a little eccentric who get things done. ~~ Ed Koch david [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com ---
Re: surge suppressors revisited
On 23 Jun2005, at 11:24 AM, david wrote: As to why computers aren't equipped with surge protectors, that is easy. They wear out. Each time a surge is clamped, a little of its usefulness is depleted. They need to be replaced frequently. Then make it replaceable, like an automobile fuse. Peter -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com ---
Re: surge suppressors revisited
On Jun 23, 2005, at 11:39 AM, Peter Saint James wrote: On 23 Jun2005, at 11:24 AM, david wrote: As to why computers aren't equipped with surge protectors, that is easy. They wear out. Each time a surge is clamped, a little of its usefulness is depleted. They need to be replaced frequently. Then make it replaceable, like an automobile fuse. Great - another piece of proprietary equipment one can only buy from the computer manufacturer and costing twice as much thereby. No thanks - I like that I can go to Microcenter and find the surge protector that meets my needs and will protect my computer, printer, router, modem, and scanner as well. -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com ---
Re: surge suppressors revisited
Would a lightning rod have helped? Or is it just too much power? I had lightning strike a tree in my back yard and jump to the skin of my house which is shingled in wood and was wet. I only lost a fan, not my computer. Didn't damage the electric system. = Mike Amato mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com ---
Re: surge suppressors revisited
At 1:11 PM -0400 6/23/05, Michael J. Amato wrote: Would a lightning rod have helped? Or is it just too much power? There's a lot of controversy about the efficacy of lightning rods, and how they work. There are two modes of operation, based on whether it's a blunt rod or a pointed one. Some feel that the latter kind don't work as intended. To some extent I'd say the jury is out on just how much benefit you get from them, but you will get some. There's not a lot of data from systematic studies, so making a definitive statement is risky. That said, I think you'll find that most building codes still require them for public buildings of any significant height. - web -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com ---
Re: surge suppressors revisited
No surge suppressor can protect your computer from an arbitrarily large surge, but at least the (better) suppressors come with a warranty that will replace the equipment that got fried. That's worth something (plus the protection against lesser surges, of course). And as always, you should have a good backup strategy. :) -Jeff[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You can't brew a premium lager with a kool-aid mentality. --Harold Green in _The_Red_Green_Show_ -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com ---
Re: surge suppressors revisited
At 2:48 PM -0700 6/23/05, Robert Gruber wrote: I understand that preachers for years refused to put them on their churches, contending that they implieda mistrust of god; it wasn't until insurance companies quit covering them without lightning rods that they all put them up. One of the local churches had a major lightning induced steeple fire about a decade ago. That steeple was never rebuilt. I guess god, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster http://www.venganza.org/ was a bit annoyed that day. - web -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com ---
Re: surge suppressors revisited
At 09:06 AM -0400 06/23/2005, Peter Saint James wrote: We concluded that the power adapter would protect the Powerbook from a surge. Turns out this is not true. I have to admit that the surge to my book was a big one. A bolt of lightening hit near my house. It knocked out the surge suppressor then continued on, zapping the printer, other items that were plugged into it, and my powerbook. ouch. I take it you're ok? :( I must have missed the original conversation back then. Power Adapter vs Surge Protector vs Lightning Arrestor. A power adapter is a simple box containing a few capacitors, a few diodes, a tiny transformer, and maybe a small fuse. It offers little to no protection against anything beyond minor surges. A surge supressor is a fancy piece of electronics designed to smooth out (supress) the power surges that occur due to normal atmospheric interference. They are NOT designed to protect you from near-by lightning hits. eg: magnetic storm activity, power company foolin around, one too many things plugged into that old bedroom circuit. A lightning arrestor is a large single-trip device directly connected to ground. It's purpose is to route most of a (close-by) hit's power to ground. eg: lightning rods, arrestor boxes on antennas, etc. Another thing to think about: Surges that come up your cable coax or telephone lines. They're the #1 cause of modem death! Make sure they're grounded properly, where they come into your home. And put a surge protector between them and your computer too! Bottom line: No matter how much you spend on surge protectors and such -- if you're in the middle of a t-storm, UNPLUG your equipment. Get off the grids! - Dan. -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com ---
Re: surge suppressors revisited
At 10:46 AM -0300 06/23/2005, Bill Briggs wrote: Even unplugging the appliances isn't a guarantee that they would be spared. The surge can jump the gap between the plug socket and the end of the cord on the floor (remember, it just jumped a gap of a mile, so this gap of a foot is nothing). A 2nd air jump instead of flowing thru the lower-resistance wires and water pipes in the wall? Your whole home would have to be very badly grounded. Should be rare, but... sigh. A few months after I moved into my current place (renter), during a minor thunderstorm, we blew a modem and a fax machine. To the basement we went... and discovered that Verizon had grounded the phone line to a floating (ungrounded) radiator pipe. Comcast's ground wire was lugged onto Verizon's! The real (grounded) water pipe was another foot to the right... Of course the pipes were clearly marked with large tags as to which was which. :\ - Dan. -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com ---
Re: surge suppressors revisited
At 11:39 AM -0400 06/23/2005, Peter Saint James wrote: On 23 Jun2005, at 11:24 AM, david wrote: As to why computers aren't equipped with surge protectors, that is easy. They wear out. Each time a surge is clamped, a little of its usefulness is depleted. They need to be replaced frequently. Then make it replaceable, like an automobile fuse. The good news: Your new laptop only weighs 1 pound. The bad news: It's wart weighs 6 pounds. :) - Dan. -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com ---
