Upgrading a Sawtooth

[skinnie]

Hi Guys,I received an G4 400MHz AGP Sawtooth with the following specs:

Ram: 512Mb+3x256Mb=1.25Gb
HDD:40Gb Seagate IDE 7200Rpm
Graphic Card: ATI 16Mb

Currently it is running tiger,but I think it is a little slow (I think
it is the HDD fault)..
I am planing to upgrade the HDD to my 250Gb 5400rpm "macbook original"
sata hdd via sata to ide adapter.
But to make it even smoother I'd like to upgrade either the video card
or the ram,what will make it faster?
For the videocard I was planning on buying a pc 9700pro and flashing
it (20euros).
FOr the ram,for the 30eur I could get about 2x512mb..
what do you think it is better?spending 50eur on this machine is not
an option this time :S

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Re: Upgrading a Sawtooth

[John Carmonne]

On Mar 7, 2010, at 10:09 AM, skinnie wrote:

> Hi Guys,I received an G4 400MHz AGP Sawtooth with the following specs:
> 
> Ram: 512Mb+3x256Mb=1.25Gb
> HDD:40Gb Seagate IDE 7200Rpm
> Graphic Card: ATI 16Mb
> 
> Currently it is running tiger,but I think it is a little slow (I think
> it is the HDD fault)..
> I am planing to upgrade the HDD to my 250Gb 5400rpm "macbook original"
> sata hdd via sata to ide adapter.
> But to make it even smoother I'd like to upgrade either the video card
> or the ram,what will make it faster?
> For the videocard I was planning on buying a pc 9700pro and flashing
> it (20euros).
> FOr the ram,for the 30eur I could get about 2x512mb..
> what do you think it is better?spending 50eur on this machine is not
> an option this time :S
> 


Just a suggestion but can you get a faster processor off ebay for your 
machine?, That's the first thing I would do if one is available.


John Carmonne
Yorba Linda USA






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Re: Upgrading a Sawtooth

[John Carmonne]

On Mar 7, 2010, at 10:09 AM, skinnie wrote:

> Hi Guys,I received an G4 400MHz AGP Sawtooth with the following specs:
> 
> Ram: 512Mb+3x256Mb=1.25Gb
> HDD:40Gb Seagate IDE 7200Rpm
> Graphic Card: ATI 16Mb
> 
> Currently it is running tiger,but I think it is a little slow (I think
> it is the HDD fault)..
> I am planing to upgrade the HDD to my 250Gb 5400rpm "macbook original"
> sata hdd via sata to ide adapter.
> But to make it even smoother I'd like to upgrade either the video card
> or the ram,what will make it faster?
> For the videocard I was planning on buying a pc 9700pro and flashing
> it (20euros).
> FOr the ram,for the 30eur I could get about 2x512mb..
> what do you think it is better?spending 50eur on this machine is not
> an option this time :S
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for 
> those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power 
> Macs.
> The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette 
> guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
> To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list



 How about something like this?

http://cgi.ebay.com/G4-Power-Mac-Processor-CPU-533-mhz-661-2403-820-1175-A_W0QQitemZ200332783664QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCPUs?hash=item2ea4c3b030
John Carmonne
Yorba Linda USA






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Re: Upgrading a Sawtooth

[Eric Volker]

On Sun, Mar 7, 2010 at 12:09 PM, skinnie  wrote:

> Hi Guys,I received an G4 400MHz AGP Sawtooth with the following specs:
>
> Ram: 512Mb+3x256Mb=1.25Gb
> HDD:40Gb Seagate IDE 7200Rpm
> Graphic Card: ATI 16Mb
>
> Currently it is running tiger,but I think it is a little slow (I think
> it is the HDD fault)..
> I am planing to upgrade the HDD to my 250Gb 5400rpm "macbook original"
> sata hdd via sata to ide adapter.
> But to make it even smoother I'd like to upgrade either the video card
> or the ram,what will make it faster?
> For the videocard I was planning on buying a pc 9700pro and flashing
> it (20euros).
> FOr the ram,for the 30eur I could get about 2x512mb..
> what do you think it is better?spending 50eur on this machine is not
> an option this time :S
>
> Flashing a PC card can be tricky, especially since most of them don't have
BIOS chip big enough to hold a Mac ROM. For a long time I used a flashed (by
someone else) Radeon 9700 in my G5 until it became a massive headache. Then
I had to revert back to the original Geforce 5200 which so far hasn't been
too painful.

Upgrading the hard drive should give you a noticeable boost in perceived
speed, but don't expect miracles. You might want to consider a processor
upgrade, though I don't know what current prices are like. When I had a
Sawtooth, I picked up a 1 GHz  G4 (with no L3) from OWC for a little over
US$100. That made the machine actually usable.

Running Tiger, I don't think you'll see a big improvement over 1.25 GB
unless you do a lot of multitasking, or significant photo/video editing.
More RAM is always good, though.

Eric

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Re: Upgrading a Sawtooth

[Richard Gerome]

   How would the 250g 5400rpm HD be faster then a 40g 7200rpm HD??? The space size being bigger??? I've been told going from 5400 to 7200 would increase the performance speed...-Original Message-
From: Eric Volker 
Sent: Mar 7, 2010 1:28 PM
To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Upgrading a Sawtooth

On Sun, Mar 7, 2010 at 12:09 PM, skinnie <andre.fa...@ua.pt> wrote:
Hi Guys,I received an G4 400MHz AGP Sawtooth with the following specs:

Ram: 512Mb+3x256Mb=1.25Gb
HDD:40Gb Seagate IDE 7200Rpm
Graphic Card: ATI 16Mb

Currently it is running tiger,but I think it is a little slow (I think
it is the HDD fault)..
I am planing to upgrade the HDD to my 250Gb 5400rpm "macbook original"
sata hdd via sata to ide adapter.
But to make it even smoother I'd like to upgrade either the video card
or the ram,what will make it faster?
For the videocard I was planning on buying a pc 9700pro and flashing
it (20euros).
FOr the ram,for the 30eur I could get about 2x512mb..
what do you think it is better?spending 50eur on this machine is not
an option this time :SFlashing a PC card can be tricky, especially since most of them don't have BIOS chip big enough to hold a Mac ROM. For a long time I used a flashed (by someone else) Radeon 9700 in my G5 until it became a massive headache. Then I had to revert back to the original Geforce 5200 which so far hasn't been too painful.
Upgrading the hard drive should give you a noticeable boost in perceived speed, but don't expect miracles. You might want to consider a processor upgrade, though I don't know what current prices are like. When I had a Sawtooth, I picked up a 1 GHz  G4 (with no L3) from OWC for a little over US$100. That made the machine actually usable.
Running Tiger, I don't think you'll see a big improvement over 1.25 GB unless you do a lot of multitasking, or significant photo/video editing. More RAM is always good, though.
Eric



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Re: Upgrading a Sawtooth

[JOHN CARMONNE]

On Mar 7, 2010, at 11:09 AM, Richard Gerome wrote:



   How would the 250g 5400rpm HD be faster then a 40g 7200rpm HD???  
The space size being bigger??? I've been told going from 5400 to  
7200 would increase the performance speed...





-Original Message-
From: Eric Volker
Sent: Mar 7, 2010 1:28 PM
To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Upgrading a Sawtooth



On Sun, Mar 7, 2010 at 12:09 PM, skinnie  wrote:
Hi Guys,I received an G4 400MHz AGP Sawtooth with the following specs:

Ram: 512Mb+3x256Mb=1.25Gb
HDD:40Gb Seagate IDE 7200Rpm
Graphic Card: ATI 16Mb

Currently it is running tiger,but I think it is a little slow (I think
it is the HDD fault)..
I am planing to upgrade the HDD to my 250Gb 5400rpm "macbook original"
sata hdd via sata to ide adapter.
But to make it even smoother I'd like to upgrade either the video card
or the ram,what will make it faster?
For the videocard I was planning on buying a pc 9700pro and flashing
it (20euros).
FOr the ram,for the 30eur I could get about 2x512mb..
what do you think it is better?spending 50eur on this machine is not
an option this time :S

Flashing a PC card can be tricky, especially since most of them  
don't have BIOS chip big enough to hold a Mac ROM. For a long time  
I used a flashed (by someone else) Radeon 9700 in my G5 until it  
became a massive headache. Then I had to revert back to the  
original Geforce 5200 which so far hasn't been too painful.


Upgrading the hard drive should give you a noticeable boost in  
perceived speed, but don't expect miracles. You might want to  
consider a processor upgrade, though I don't know what current  
prices are like. When I had a Sawtooth, I picked up a 1 GHz  G4  
(with no L3) from OWC for a little over US$100. That made the  
machine actually usable.


Running Tiger, I don't think you'll see a big improvement over 1.25  
GB unless you do a lot of multitasking, or significant photo/video  
editing. More RAM is always good, though.


Eric
--



I wonder if the 2.5" HDD from a MacBook will have a temperature issue  
in a tower box?
Like they are cheaper to make so why do the big machines still have  
3.5" ?



JOHN CARMONNE
Yorba Linda USA
sent from my Wally 10.4.11



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Re: Upgrading a Sawtooth

[Eric Volker]

On Sun, Mar 7, 2010 at 1:09 PM, Richard Gerome
wrote:

>
>How would the 250g 5400rpm HD be faster then a 40g 7200rpm HD??? The
> space size being bigger??? I've been told going from 5400 to 7200 would
> increase the performance speed...
>
>
> Because the data density is higher. For every inch the head travels on the
250g drive, it has the potential to pick up to six times more data as the
same inch on the 40g drive. Plus the 250g almost certainly has a larger
on-board cache, and probably higher seek times as well.

Eric

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Re: Upgrading a Sawtooth

[Bruce Johnson]

On Mar 7, 2010, at 11:09 AM, skinnie wrote:


Hi Guys,I received an G4 400MHz AGP Sawtooth with the following specs:

Ram: 512Mb+3x256Mb=1.25Gb
HDD:40Gb Seagate IDE 7200Rpm
Graphic Card: ATI 16Mb

Currently it is running tiger,but I think it is a little slow (I think
it is the HDD fault)..


NO it's the CPU, secondarily that crappy ATI video card.


I am planing to upgrade the HDD to my 250Gb 5400rpm "macbook original"
sata hdd via sata to ide adapter.


Won't work, without assistance; Sawtooth machines have a 132GB limit  
on the ATA controllers.



But to make it even smoother I'd like to upgrade either the video card
or the ram,what will make it faster?


1.25 Gigs is plenty of RAM


For the videocard I was planning on buying a pc 9700pro and flashing
it (20euros).


That would be the way to go.
--
Bruce Johnson

"Wherever you go, there you are" B. Banzai,  PhD

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Re: Upgrading a Sawtooth

[ah...clem]

On Mar 7, 1:09 pm, skinnie  wrote:

> Currently it is running tiger,but I think it is a little slow (I think
> it is the HDD fault)..

WHAT is slow?  the OS seems slow to you, like launching apps?  or some
particular application?  are you using it for gaming?  video editing?

> I am planing to upgrade the HDD to my 250Gb 5400rpm "macbook original"
> sata hdd via sata to ide adapter.

forget it, as bruce said, won't see 250gig drive, or will see it as
significantly smaller drive.  also, has nothing to do with the
perception of "slow."

> But to make it even smoother I'd like to upgrade either the video card
> or the ram,what will make it faster?

the most RAM you could put in would be 2gig, and you would have to
discard or sell the 3 x 256 sticks now installed.  all for a 60%
increase in RAM?  unless you are using apps that eat RAM in large
chunks, no perceptible improvement.

and i disagree about the video card.  again, you didn't say WHAT seems
slow.  if you're talking about the performance of the OS, then the vid
card cannot possibly have anything to do with it.  i have used
computers with vid card having only 8MB of VRAM, and manipulating
massive wireframe model (as in CAD, etc) the card has no problem
keeping up.  it will spin the image as fast as your hand can move the
mouse.  lots of VRAM on the vid card is only going to make a
perceptible improvement if you're gaming, or watching/editing video.
the majority of the great unwashed masses put way too much importance
on lots of VRAM.  for most apps, it's a non-issue.

> For the videocard I was planning on buying a pc 9700pro and flashing
> it (20euros).
> FOr the ram,for the 30eur I could get about 2x512mb..
> what do you think it is better?spending 50eur on this machine is not
> an option this time :S

what do i think?  i think you've got a sawtooth.  learn to like it or
get something else.  if you get the 533meg processor upgrade that was
mentioned by another, you'll see roughly a 33% increase in speed (i
didn't bother looking up cache sizes to fine tune the estimate).  it's
NOT going to triple or double the performance.  again, is the cost
worth the minimal improvement?  i wouldn't think so.  my advice: don't
waste ANY money on any upgrades.  use it, or lose it, and get a newer
box.

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Re: Upgrading a Sawtooth

[John Carmonne]

On Mar 7, 2010, at 1:29 PM, ah...clem wrote:

> On Mar 7, 1:09 pm, skinnie  wrote:
> 
>> Currently it is running tiger,but I think it is a little slow (I think
>> it is the HDD fault)..
> 
> WHAT is slow?  the OS seems slow to you, like launching apps?  or some
> particular application?  are you using it for gaming?  video editing?
> 
>> I am planing to upgrade the HDD to my 250Gb 5400rpm "macbook original"
>> sata hdd via sata to ide adapter.
> 
> forget it, as bruce said, won't see 250gig drive, or will see it as
> significantly smaller drive.  also, has nothing to do with the
> perception of "slow."
> 
>> But to make it even smoother I'd like to upgrade either the video card
>> or the ram,what will make it faster?
> 
> the most RAM you could put in would be 2gig, and you would have to
> discard or sell the 3 x 256 sticks now installed.  all for a 60%
> increase in RAM?  unless you are using apps that eat RAM in large
> chunks, no perceptible improvement.
> 
> and i disagree about the video card.  again, you didn't say WHAT seems
> slow.  if you're talking about the performance of the OS, then the vid
> card cannot possibly have anything to do with it.  i have used
> computers with vid card having only 8MB of VRAM, and manipulating
> massive wireframe model (as in CAD, etc) the card has no problem
> keeping up.  it will spin the image as fast as your hand can move the
> mouse.  lots of VRAM on the vid card is only going to make a
> perceptible improvement if you're gaming, or watching/editing video.
> the majority of the great unwashed masses put way too much importance
> on lots of VRAM.  for most apps, it's a non-issue.
> 
>> For the videocard I was planning on buying a pc 9700pro and flashing
>> it (20euros).
>> FOr the ram,for the 30eur I could get about 2x512mb..
>> what do you think it is better?spending 50eur on this machine is not
>> an option this time :S
> 
> what do i think?  i think you've got a sawtooth.  learn to like it or
> get something else.  if you get the 533meg processor upgrade that was
> mentioned by another, you'll see roughly a 33% increase in speed (i
> didn't bother looking up cache sizes to fine tune the estimate).  it's
> NOT going to triple or double the performance.  again, is the cost
> worth the minimal improvement?  i wouldn't think so.  my advice: don't
> waste ANY money on any upgrades.  use it, or lose it, and get a newer
> box.
> 
 I think the 533 processor at $20.00 is a pretty good upgrade if it will 
produce a 33% improvement in speed. I agree that 1.25 GB of RAM is a good 
amount for most stuff. I use a lot of RAM on my CAD/CAM system due to rendering 
of the images in a zoomed fashion. If it's a nice clean machine and performs 
what you want to do and some more speed could make it  better then the 
processor is cheap enough IMHO. but I'm just remembering what that RAM you 
already have cost back in the day:-D

John Carmonne
Yorba Linda USA






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Re: Upgrading a Sawtooth

[Eric Volker]

>
> Because the data density is higher. For every inch the head travels on the
> 250g drive, it has the potential to pick up to six times more data as the
> same inch on the 40g drive. Plus the 250g almost certainly has a larger
> on-board cache, and probably higher seek times as well.
>
> Eric
>

As someone pointed out to me, I made a  mistake above. When I said higher
access times, I meant faster access times (as in 5ms is faster, not higher,
than 13ms.) I also mistakenly thought the original poster was using a PCI
SATA adapter, not an IDE to SATA adapter, which would also take care of the
128gb limit, as well as bandwidth limitations on the ATA bus. Even without a
PCI adapter, there are some hacks to get around the limit.

Eric

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Re: Upgrading a Sawtooth

[ah...clem]

john keeps pushing his idea of a processor upgrade.  makes me wonder
if he's the one trying to sell the 533.  ;o)  but again i would add
that it depends on WHAT you are using the sawtooth for.  first, as in
all d=rt problems, increasing the speed by a factor of 4/3 equates to
decreasing the time by a factor of 3/4, so a 33% increase in processor
speed translates to a 25% reduction in the time to execute a command.
it depends on what you're doing if that is significant enough to
justify the cost.  if all you are using the sawtooth for is to do a
bit of word processing, surfing the internet, and occasionally
downloading and printing a still photo from a digital camera, then, at
least for me, the improvement would be insignificant.  an instruction
that takes 2 seconds to execute w/ the 400MHz would execute in 1.5
seconds w/ the 533MHz.  BFD!  on the other hand, if you're doing
something that requires more serious number crunching, like using
MacTheRipper to rip commercial DVD's or DVD2oneX to compress the
ripped files, then a decrease in execution times from one hour to 45
minutes seems a wee bit more significant.  but again, how
significant?  you're obviously not going to sit there and watch the
progress bar for the whole 60 minutes anyway, so, again, is it worth
it?  and finally, john overlooks the fact that you are not in the US
of A.  the 533 processor may be $20 here, but what is that to you,
with extra shipping, etc?  and what is the availability in your
region?  you know the answer to those questions better than we.  the
price you mentioned for RAM is a good bit higher than it is here.
bottom line, maybe a 533 processor upgrade would improve your
perception of performance, but only minimally.  a big improvement
would only come from a big increase.  there is a 1.8GHz dual-processor
upgrade available for the sawtooth, but it is $800US.  if your
spending that kind of money, get a new mac.  if all you need is more
disk storage space, then THAT would justify a bigger HD, in which case
i would recommend an external FW drive.  the sawtooth already has
native FW ports, and the internal transfer rate of the drive itself is
likely slower than the FW interface limit, so that won't make any
perceptible difference.  and that way, your files are easily moved to
your next computer when that eventuality arrives.  just MY humble
opinion.


On Mar 7, 4:45 pm, John Carmonne  wrote:
>
>  I think the 533 processor at $20.00 is a pretty good upgrade if it will 
> produce a 33% improvement in speed. I agree that 1.25 GB of RAM is a good 
> amount for most stuff. I use a lot of RAM on my CAD/CAM system due to 
> rendering of the images in a zoomed fashion. If it's a nice clean machine and 
> performs what you want to do and some more speed could make it  better then 
> the processor is cheap enough IMHO. but I'm just remembering what that RAM 
> you already have cost back in the day:-D
>
> John Carmonne
> Yorba Linda USA

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Re: Upgrading a Sawtooth

[Len Gerstel]

On Mar 8, 2010, at 9:51 AM, ah...clem wrote:



On Mar 7, 4:45 pm, John Carmonne  wrote:


 I think the 533 processor at $20.00 is a pretty good upgrade if  
it will produce a 33% improvement in speed. I agree that 1.25 GB  
of RAM is a good amount for most stuff. I use a lot of RAM on my  
CAD/CAM system due to rendering of the images in a zoomed fashion.  
If it's a nice clean machine and performs what you want to do and  
some more speed could make it  better then the processor is cheap  
enough IMHO. but I'm just remembering what that RAM you already  
have cost back in the day:-D


John Carmonne
Yorba Linda USA



john keeps pushing his idea of a processor upgrade.  makes me wonder
if he's the one trying to sell the 533.  ;o)


The one flaw here is that a 533 is from a Digital Audio with a 133MHz  
bus speed and different motherboard layout than a Sawtooth with a  
100MHz bus speed. In order to put that in a sawtooth (they have the  
same connector to the motherboard) you need to remove one of the  
onboard ATA connectors. Also, the 533 has a 4x multiplier  
(4x133MHz=533MHz) built into the processor, so in a Sawtooth, it will  
run at 400MHz (4 x 100MHz=400MHz).


Now, if you have a Uni-N revision 7 or above as reported by the  
utility linked to at this page:





or

http://www.socuteurl.com/snugglywigglefuzzy

You can put in a dual processor from a Gigabit in your Sawtooth.  
Putting a dual 450 or 500 into your sawtooth will give you a big  
boost from your current processor. Heck, I am running Leopard on a  
Dual 533 DA.


Len

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Re: Upgrading a Sawtooth

[Carmonne]

In a message dated 3/8/10 7:35:09 AM, lgers...@gmail.com writes:


> 
> On Mar 8, 2010, at 9:51 AM, ah...clem wrote:
> 
> >
> > On Mar 7, 4:45 pm, John Carmonne  wrote:
> >>
> >>  I think the 533 processor at $20.00 is a pretty good upgrade if 
> >> it will produce a 33% improvement in speed. I agree that 1.25 GB 
> >> of RAM is a good amount for most stuff. I use a lot of RAM on my 
> >> CAD/CAM system due to rendering of the images in a zoomed fashion. 
> >> If it's a nice clean machine and performs what you want to do and 
> >> some more speed could make it  better then the processor is cheap 
> >> enough IMHO. but I'm just remembering what that RAM you already 
> >> have cost back in the day:-D
> >>
> >> John Carmonne
> >> Yorba Linda USA
> 
> > john keeps pushing his idea of a processor upgrade.  makes me wonder
> > if he's the one trying to sell the 533.  ;o)
> 
> The one flaw here is that a 533 is from a Digital Audio with a 133MHz 
> bus speed and different motherboard layout than a Sawtooth with a 
> 100MHz bus speed. In order to put that in a sawtooth (they have the 
> same connector to the motherboard) you need to remove one of the 
> onboard ATA connectors. Also, the 533 has a 4x multiplier 
> (4x133MHz=533MHz) built into the processor, so in a Sawtooth, it will 
> run at 400MHz (4 x 100MHz=400MHz).
> 
> Now, if you have a Uni-N revision 7 or above as reported by the 
> utility linked to at this page:
> 
>  layout=FaqList&-response=answer.faq.lasso&-recordID=33672&-search>
> 
> or
> 
> http://www.socuteurl.com/snugglywigglefuzzy
> 
> You can put in a dual processor from a Gigabit in your Sawtooth. 
> Putting a dual 450 or 500 into your sawtooth will give you a big 
> boost from your current processor. Heck, I am running Leopard on a 
> Dual 533 DA.
> 
Len
I really didn't   know the 533 wouldn't fit the Sawtooth. my suggestion was 
merely an example of a cheap meaningful upgrade. :-) I looked at everymac 
to try and ID the series. The link I sent is an ebay listing. 

John Carmonne
Yorba Linda
USA

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Re: Upgrading a Sawtooth

[skinnie]

Thanks all of you for the suggestions,but I'll try to make some things
clear :)

1) This Mac is only used in the weekend to surf on the web,when I
return home.

2) When I say it's slow,I don't mean it's horribly slow,but I know
this time it is a little slower than my ibook g3 800mhz,640mb ram,40gb
hdd was!
I think maybe due to the crappy ati card that I have on the powermac
doesn't support quartz extreme unlike the 32mb one on the ibook...and
the crappy seagate HDD that I have there...

3)Processor upgrades cost a lot more,even that 533mhz...I pay about
35dollars of shipping to portugal,so I think 50 dollars for more
133mhz is not a really good option..
If I could live with a g3 800Mhz,I guess a G4  400Mhz could be just
good for internet..

4)About the ram,if you say that 1.25Gb is fine,I'll acept :)

5)About pc flashed cards,what problems have you got?I've read in the
mac elite wiki,and there are lots of "confirmed" working 9700 reduced
roms and 9800...

thanks all of you!

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Re: Upgrading a Sawtooth

[skinnie]

oh and about the macbook's 250Gb 5400rpm HDD,wouldn't it be detected
if I partition it into partitions with less than 128Gb?!?
I thin it would be a lot faster than that 7200RPm hdd that I
have,mainly because it has more cache,and it is a much newer
techoh and new!

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Re: Upgrading a Sawtooth

[Len Gerstel]

On Mar 8, 2010, at 4:50 PM, skinnie wrote:


Thanks all of you for the suggestions,but I'll try to make some things
clear :)


snip


2) When I say it's slow,I don't mean it's horribly slow,but I know
this time it is a little slower than my ibook g3 800mhz,640mb ram,40gb
hdd was!
I think maybe due to the crappy ati card that I have on the powermac
doesn't support quartz extreme unlike the 32mb one on the ibook...and
the crappy seagate HDD that I have there..


The HD and video are pretty close between the iBook and the Sawtooth.  
Not enough for you to see a lot of difference. The ATI rage is slower  
than a 7500, but not a huge amount.


Most of the difference you are seeing is the processor. You have  
plenty of ram.


Since you are at 2 different places, the speed of your connection  
could be an issue. Schools tend to have high bandwidth connections to  
the net compared to home connections.



3)Processor upgrades cost a lot more,even that 533mhz...I pay about
35dollars of shipping to portugal,so I think 50 dollars for more
133mhz is not a really good option..
If I could live with a g3 800Mhz,I guess a G4  400Mhz could be just
good for internet..


Your computer may be able to use a dual G4 from a Gigabit Ethernet  
model which would double your speed and be about the same, if not  
faster than the iBook.




5)About pc flashed cards,what problems have you got?I've read in the
mac elite wiki,and there are lots of "confirmed" working 9700 reduced
roms and 9800...


Len

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Re: Upgrading a Sawtooth

[Eric Volker]

On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 3:50 PM, skinnie  wrote:

>
> 5)About pc flashed cards,what problems have you got?I've read in the
> mac elite wiki,and there are lots of "confirmed" working 9700 reduced
> roms and 9800...
>

My 9700 Pro worked fine for about 1-1/2 years, then I started having
problems with my G5. I thought I had sorted out the problem by removing the
9700 Pro from the G5, but just recently my problem came back. So the 9700 is
*not* to blame. It's probably a PSU problem, which is expensive to rectify,
and will probably fate my G5 to the recycle bin.

Eric

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Re: Upgrading a Sawtooth

[Clark Martin]

On 3/8/10 2:02 PM, skinnie wrote:


oh and about the macbook's 250Gb 5400rpm HDD,wouldn't it be detected
if I partition it into partitions with less than 128Gb?!?
I thin it would be a lot faster than that 7200RPm hdd that I
have,mainly because it has more cache,and it is a much newer
techoh and new!


If you mean a SATA drive attached to the Sawtooth via a SATA to IDE 
adapter, no.  Without one of the two fixes, a stock Sawtooth canNOT see 
past the first 128Gb of a drive.  Not a parition, the entire drive.



--
Clark Martin
Redwood City, CA, USA
Macintosh / Internet Consulting

"I'm a designated driver on the Information Super Highway"

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RE: Upgrading a Sawtooth

[Stewie de Young]

> 
> If you mean a SATA drive attached to the Sawtooth via a SATA to IDE 
> adapter, no.  Without one of the two fixes, a stock Sawtooth canNOT see 
> past the first 128Gb of a drive.  Not a parition, the entire drive.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Clark Martin

Unless you do the firmware hack to get around the 128Gb barrier or buy the 
Hi-Cap utility from InTech to do likewise.
Both work but also have caveats.
Me, I've bought SATA PCI cards for all my G4s to whack in newer, faster, bigger 
 hard drives and haven't regretted it at all.

Stewie
  
_
Looking for a new home? With all the latest places, searching has never been 
easier.
http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/157631292/direct/01/

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Re: Upgrading a Sawtooth

[dc]

On Mar 7, 1:09 pm, skinnie  wrote:
> Hi Guys,I received an G4 400MHz AGP Sawtooth with the following specs:
>
> Ram: 512Mb+3x256Mb=1.25Gb
> HDD:40Gb Seagate IDE 7200Rpm
> Graphic Card: ATI 16Mb
>
> Currently it is running tiger,but I think it is a little slow

One of the best and cheapest processor upgrades for a Sawtooth is a
Dual 500 MHz (from a Gig-e G4). They are pretty easy to find. Make
sure to check your machine first to see if it can handle a dual
processor, only Uni-N 7 or later can handle DPs.  You can use
http://newertech.com/tech_support/uni-north.php
to check compatability. For a the cheapest, easiest and fastest hard
drive I would go with a 7200 RPM 120 GB hard drive with an 8 MB cache.
For the video card, I really like the GeForce 6200/256 MB VRAM, they
are easy to flash and there are very good, detailed guides available-
http://themacelite.wikidot.com/xfx-6200-agp

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Re: Upgrading a Sawtooth

[skinnie]

Where can I find info about the hack?I've searched already but didn't
found it...
I am trying to make this machine really "lowend" on money,because:
1)I'll only use it on weekends
2)I am student and don't have much money.

I already thought about sata pci cards,but the money that I have to
pay for them are more than the g4 worth..about 45dollars I
think...this adapter cost me 5 dollars or less lol.
I never thought of fw enclosure,that would be a cool Idea,but I
already bought this adapter,only if the hack doesn't work.
About the processor upgrades,believe me I'd really like to have
something like a dual in my g4,but simply is too much money for me,and
for the use that it gets..
about radeon 7500 on the ibook vs the 16mb rage something that I have
in the g4,the biggest difference I think is the support of quartz
extreme..wich makes things a little "faster".
Well Today I'll give feedback on the instalation of tiger on the 250gb
2.5 HDD.

On Mar 9, 10:11 am, Stewie de Young  wrote:
> > If you mean a SATA drive attached to the Sawtooth via a SATA to IDE
> > adapter, no.  Without one of the two fixes, a stock Sawtooth canNOT see
> > past the first 128Gb of a drive.  Not a parition, the entire drive.
>
> > --
> > Clark Martin
>
> Unless you do the firmware hack to get around the 128Gb barrier or buy the 
> Hi-Cap utility from InTech to do likewise.
> Both work but also have caveats.
> Me, I've bought SATA PCI cards for all my G4s to whack in newer, faster, 
> bigger  hard drives and haven't regretted it at all.
>
> Stewie
>
> _
> Looking for a new home? With all the latest places, searching has never been 
> easier.http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/157631292/direct/01/

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Re: Upgrading a Sawtooth

[Dennis Myhand]

You can look through the achieves of this list.  It has been posted here 
withing the last two months.  I know because I used it.  I just don't 
remember what I did because there has been a lot happening in my life 
the last two weeks!  Peace, Dennis


skinnie wrote:

Where can I find info about the hack?I've searched already but didn't
found it...
I am trying to make this machine really "lowend" on money,because:
1)I'll only use it on weekends
2)I am student and don't have much money.

I already thought about sata pci cards,but the money that I have to
pay for them are more than the g4 worth..about 45dollars I
think...this adapter cost me 5 dollars or less lol.
I never thought of fw enclosure,that would be a cool Idea,but I
already bought this adapter,only if the hack doesn't work.
About the processor upgrades,believe me I'd really like to have
something like a dual in my g4,but simply is too much money for me,and
for the use that it gets..
about radeon 7500 on the ibook vs the 16mb rage something that I have
in the g4,the biggest difference I think is the support of quartz
extreme..wich makes things a little "faster".
Well Today I'll give feedback on the instalation of tiger on the 250gb
2.5 HDD.

On Mar 9, 10:11 am, Stewie de Young  wrote:

If you mean a SATA drive attached to the Sawtooth via a SATA to IDE
adapter, no.  Without one of the two fixes, a stock Sawtooth canNOT see
past the first 128Gb of a drive.  Not a parition, the entire drive.
--
Clark Martin

Unless you do the firmware hack to get around the 128Gb barrier or buy the 
Hi-Cap utility from InTech to do likewise.
Both work but also have caveats.
Me, I've bought SATA PCI cards for all my G4s to whack in newer, faster, bigger 
 hard drives and haven't regretted it at all.

Stewie

_
Looking for a new home? With all the latest places, searching has never been 
easier.http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/157631292/direct/01/




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Re: Upgrading a Sawtooth

[Dennis Myhand]

Look for Large HDD in a Sawtooth.  I think that was the subject I used 
when asking.


skinnie wrote:

Where can I find info about the hack?I've searched already but didn't
found it...
I am trying to make this machine really "lowend" on money,because:
1)I'll only use it on weekends
2)I am student and don't have much money.

I already thought about sata pci cards,but the money that I have to
pay for them are more than the g4 worth..about 45dollars I
think...this adapter cost me 5 dollars or less lol.
I never thought of fw enclosure,that would be a cool Idea,but I
already bought this adapter,only if the hack doesn't work.
About the processor upgrades,believe me I'd really like to have
something like a dual in my g4,but simply is too much money for me,and
for the use that it gets..
about radeon 7500 on the ibook vs the 16mb rage something that I have
in the g4,the biggest difference I think is the support of quartz
extreme..wich makes things a little "faster".
Well Today I'll give feedback on the instalation of tiger on the 250gb
2.5 HDD.

On Mar 9, 10:11 am, Stewie de Young  wrote:

If you mean a SATA drive attached to the Sawtooth via a SATA to IDE
adapter, no.  Without one of the two fixes, a stock Sawtooth canNOT see
past the first 128Gb of a drive.  Not a parition, the entire drive.
--
Clark Martin

Unless you do the firmware hack to get around the 128Gb barrier or buy the 
Hi-Cap utility from InTech to do likewise.
Both work but also have caveats.
Me, I've bought SATA PCI cards for all my G4s to whack in newer, faster, bigger 
 hard drives and haven't regretted it at all.

Stewie

_
Looking for a new home? With all the latest places, searching has never been 
easier.http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/157631292/direct/01/




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Re: Upgrading a Sawtooth

[Dennis Myhand]

skinnie wrote:

Where can I find info about the hack?I've searched already but didn't
found it...
I am trying to make this machine really "lowend" on money,because:
1)I'll only use it on weekends
2)I am student and don't have much money.



Here is the message.  I could not find Overdrive so I did the firmware hack.

On Feb 22, 2010, at 5:20 PM, Dale Hoffman wrote:


>> I just acquired a 320 GB HD for my Sawtooth FrankenMac.  I know
>> there is a 128 GB limit on drive size.  What do I need to do to use
>> the whole drive?


Use an enabler for LBA48 support or do the firmware patch.

One method is to use Intech's solution, which costs $. With Intech if
you're using OS 9 you must format the HD with Speedtools 3.5 for OS9.
In OS X you need the Intech Hi-Cap extension, and then for safety
you'd want to add a partition break at the exact 128GB mark (131,072MB
exactly).


Another solution is the freeware Overdrive 



A third is to manually tweak the firmware 




>> Is there a free disk utility which will let me use the whole drive?


Yes, Overdrive mentioned with link above.



Stewie

_
Looking for a new home? With all the latest places, searching has never been 
easier.http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/157631292/direct/01/




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Re: Upgrading a Sawtooth

[romantic]

"Another solution is the freeware Overdrive 
"




Is it just me? 9 out of 10 times Version Tracker download links return 
a "Not Found" page.
It's gotten to the point that, when I google I avoid Version Tracker 
results altogether.


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Re: Upgrading a Sawtooth

[Dennis Myhand]

I could not find it anywhere.  What I found called Overdrive was for USB 
drives so I went ahead and did the firmware hack.  Works fine from what 
I can tell.  A 320 Gig drives that I can see 312 gigs of.  Sounds like 
the normal amount of false advertising.


roman...@ideal-access.com wrote:


"Another solution is the freeware Overdrive 
"




Is it just me? 9 out of 10 times Version Tracker download links return a 
"Not Found" page.
It's gotten to the point that, when I google I avoid Version Tracker 
results altogether.




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Re: Upgrading a Sawtooth

[skinnie]

Sorry to just post now,I've been out of time.
Let's say I "tried for free" the Intech's SOlution to install osx 10.4
in the HD and try it,and man,that is a freakin difference of speed!
If I had a 7200rpm drive that would be even more amazing...
When I go back home,I'll do the firmware hack or use the overdrive
driver and re-install the OS.
Another question,I am thinking of buying a NEC EA231WMI DIsplay  (full
HD - 1920x1...@60hz),do you think,that the sawtooth with a 9700pro
would be sluggish on the web browsing and so at that resolution?


On Mar 13, 12:25 pm, Dennis Myhand  wrote:
> skinnie wrote:
> > Where can I find info about the hack?I've searched already but didn't
> > found it...
> > I am trying to make this machine really "lowend" on money,because:
> > 1)I'll only use it on weekends
> > 2)I am student and don't have much money.
>
> Here is the message.  I could not find Overdrive so I did the firmware hack.
>
> On Feb 22, 2010, at 5:20 PM, Dale Hoffman wrote:
>
>  >> I just acquired a 320 GB HD for mySawtoothFrankenMac.  I know
>  >> there is a 128 GB limit on drive size.  What do I need to do to use
>  >> the whole drive?
>
> Use an enabler for LBA48 support or do the firmware patch.
>
> One method is to use Intech's solution, which costs $. With Intech if
> you're using OS 9 you must format the HD with Speedtools 3.5 for OS9.
> In OS X you need the Intech Hi-Cap extension, and then for safety
> you'd want to add a partition break at the exact 128GB mark (131,072MB
> exactly).
>
> Another solution is the freeware Overdrive
>    >
>
> A third is to manually tweak the firmware
>    >
>
>  >> Is there a free disk utility which will let me use the whole drive?
>
> Yes, Overdrive mentioned with link above.
>
>
>
> >> Stewie
>
> >> _
> >> Looking for a new home? With all the latest places, searching has never 
> >> been easier.http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/157631292/direct/01/

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Re: Upgrading a Sawtooth

[Dennis Myhand]

I don't know if the screen resolution is going to slow down your 
browsing.  The question is, can your video card handle the resolution of 
the screen with the amount of video ram the card has?  How much video 
ram does the card have and what resolutions are supported?


skinnie wrote:

Sorry to just post now,I've been out of time.
Let's say I "tried for free" the Intech's SOlution to install osx 10.4
in the HD and try it,and man,that is a freakin difference of speed!
If I had a 7200rpm drive that would be even more amazing...
When I go back home,I'll do the firmware hack or use the overdrive
driver and re-install the OS.
Another question,I am thinking of buying a NEC EA231WMI DIsplay  (full
HD - 1920x1...@60hz),do you think,that the sawtooth with a 9700pro
would be sluggish on the web browsing and so at that resolution?


On Mar 13, 12:25 pm, Dennis Myhand  wrote:

skinnie wrote:

Where can I find info about the hack?I've searched already but didn't
found it...
I am trying to make this machine really "lowend" on money,because:
1)I'll only use it on weekends
2)I am student and don't have much money.

Here is the message.  I could not find Overdrive so I did the firmware hack.

On Feb 22, 2010, at 5:20 PM, Dale Hoffman wrote:

 >> I just acquired a 320 GB HD for mySawtoothFrankenMac.  I know
 >> there is a 128 GB limit on drive size.  What do I need to do to use
 >> the whole drive?

Use an enabler for LBA48 support or do the firmware patch.

One method is to use Intech's solution, which costs $. With Intech if
you're using OS 9 you must format the HD with Speedtools 3.5 for OS9.
In OS X you need the Intech Hi-Cap extension, and then for safety
you'd want to add a partition break at the exact 128GB mark (131,072MB
exactly).

Another solution is the freeware Overdrive


A third is to manually tweak the firmware


 >> Is there a free disk utility which will let me use the whole drive?

Yes, Overdrive mentioned with link above.




Stewie
_
Looking for a new home? With all the latest places, searching has never been 
easier.http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/157631292/direct/01/




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Re: Upgrading a Sawtooth

[Eric Volker]

On Mar 21, 2010, at 7:49 AM, skinnie wrote:


Sorry to just post now,I've been out of time.
Let's say I "tried for free" the Intech's SOlution to install osx 10.4
in the HD and try it,and man,that is a freakin difference of speed!
If I had a 7200rpm drive that would be even more amazing...
When I go back home,I'll do the firmware hack or use the overdrive
driver and re-install the OS.
Another question,I am thinking of buying a NEC EA231WMI DIsplay  (full
HD - 1920x1...@60hz),do you think,that the sawtooth with a 9700pro
would be sluggish on the web browsing and so at that resolution?


For a while I was using a 9700 Pro (in a dual G5) to drive a 1600x1024  
Apple Cinema Display. I had no problems. Not a direct answer, but as  
close as I can give you. I'd be more concerned about the slow CPU than  
the video card, unless you've upgraded from stock.


Eric

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Re: Upgrading a Sawtooth

[skinnie]

It has 128mb,it supports the resolution..the max for it is:
2048x1536   @60Hz


On Mar 21, 1:26 pm, Dennis Myhand  wrote:
> I don't know if the screen resolution is going to slow down your
> browsing.  The question is, can your video card handle the resolution of
> the screen with the amount of video ram the card has?  How much video
> ram does the card have and what resolutions are supported?

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Re: Upgrading a Sawtooth

[skinnie]

Thanks for the reply Eric.
As said above,I didn't upgraded the CPU and don't plan to do it...
Now,even with a 17' CRT I know that the crappy ati 16mb is "the
bottleneck",so guess I'll spend 20eur in a pc 9700pro and flash it to
mac..

>
> For a while I was using a 9700 Pro (in a dual G5) to drive a 1600x1024  
> Apple Cinema Display. I had no problems. Not a direct answer, but as  
> close as I can give you. I'd be more concerned about the slow CPU than  
> the video card, unless you've upgraded from stock.
>
> Eric

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Re: Upgrading a Sawtooth

[skinnie]

Thanks for the reply,I actually "tried for free" the Intech's
solution,but I think I'll try the other methods too..
The newwer HDD made a lot of difference,if it was an 3.5' 7200rpm it
would be even faster..but I had this 2.5 5400rpm laying around from my
macbook 6.1..
When I have a little more money maybe I'll spend it on a 9700pro
(22eur) and more ram,although I know that the bottleneck is the
processor I think having 2Gb of ram make difference (I had in my
office a core 2 duo macbook white with tiger and 1gb of ram and it was
slow...after the upgrade to 2gb it seemed a different computer!
FAST!



On Mar 13, 12:25 pm, Dennis Myhand  wrote:
> skinnie wrote:
> > Where can I find info about the hack?I've searched already but didn't
> > found it...
> > I am trying to make this machine really "lowend" on money,because:
> > 1)I'll only use it on weekends
> > 2)I am student and don't have much money.
>
> Here is the message.  I could not find Overdrive so I did the firmware hack.
>
> On Feb 22, 2010, at 5:20 PM, Dale Hoffman wrote:
>
>  >> I just acquired a 320 GB HD for mySawtoothFrankenMac.  I know
>  >> there is a 128 GB limit on drive size.  What do I need to do to use
>  >> the whole drive?
>
> Use an enabler for LBA48 support or do the firmware patch.
>
> One method is to use Intech's solution, which costs $. With Intech if
> you're using OS 9 you must format the HD with Speedtools 3.5 for OS9.
> In OS X you need the Intech Hi-Cap extension, and then for safety
> you'd want to add a partition break at the exact 128GB mark (131,072MB
> exactly).
>
> Another solution is the freeware Overdrive
>    >
>
> A third is to manually tweak the firmware
>    >
>
>  >> Is there a free disk utility which will let me use the whole drive?
>
> Yes, Overdrive mentioned with link above.
>
>
>
> >> Stewie
>
> >> _
> >> Looking for a new home? With all the latest places, searching has never 
> >> been easier.http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/157631292/direct/01/

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Re: Upgrading a Sawtooth

[Mark Sokolovsky]

I have a suggestion. I also have a power Macintosh G4 sawtooth, and i got
all of my upgrades from www.otherworldcomputing.com . They make RAM even for
the macintosh quadra series from 1993-1995. Trust me, it's worth the
upgrade. For only $30 per 512MB PC100 SDRAM module, my computer is one happy
camper. They have all of the things you need for your ultimate Mac system
such as LED fans, EIDE to SATA drive connector pin converters, and all of
that stuff. There's just one thing. they don't sell the macs themselves. The
parts... yes. The systems... no. Except for the Modbook. It's like a modded
version of the macbook. check it out! =)

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