Re: [Audyssey] message for jim kitchen- snakes and ladders
Hi Dan, I'm sorry, but I have no idea why Snakes and Ladders is giving you an error after 5 or 6 minutes. I have never had that happen. You are the first one that I have ever heard of that happening to. Sorry, I just don't know what to tell you. BFN Jim Check my web site for my free blind accessible pc dos and windows games. j...@kitchensinc.net http://www.kitchensinc.net (440) 286-6920 Chardon Ohio USA --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] 80's games suggestion
Hi tom. As i've said Tom, I really would like a modern side scroller. as you've already got the genesis engine, the possibility exists for you to create an fps game at a later point without too much trouble, where as you probably don't fancy writing side scrollers again. Personally, I'd most like to see those extra levels etc done, and the game stand as a great example of what can be created in audio 2D. Fps can wait for a later time. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 3:26 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] 80's games suggestion Hi Yohandy, At this point Mysteries of the Ancients is very near complete in its current form. The main reason for that is most of the stability issues and features have been added to the Genesis Engine which means the engine is pretty much done. The only thing I really have to do is add the extra levels, monsters, traps, etc and release the game. That said, it wouldn't be a big deal to convert it to an FPS title. Below you mentioned I'd have to completely rewrite it as an FPS title. That's not true, because the Genesis Engine was designed for 3D FPS titles. The side-scroller stuff was an addition to the engine specially for this game alone. So all I'd have to do to convert it to a full blown FPS is asign hot keys to the various FPS commands such as jump foward, sidestep left/right, walk forward/backward, etc and redraw the levels with the level editor. There might be some additional testing involved since most of the 3D FPS stuff has never been fully tested, but the fact remains the core functionality is there. Which brings me to a good thought. Given the fact the engine is pretty well on it's way to being able to do either one it might be helpful to upload both versions to the web site. In other words leave beta 9 up there, and upload a FPS type version to let user's see what it might be like as an FPS. That's a bit more work, but a thought. Yohandy wrote: Ok Thomas I have a question. How far from completion is MOTA at the current time? If the only thing left are the levels, then it would probably be a lot easier to complete the game as is as opposed to completely rewriting it as an FPS. The game is very polished and error free at this point, not to mention it took you an extremely long time to code. If you were planning on releaseing it by christmas, then I'm guessing there's not much left, and you can finally give this whole thing a rest. Also since you don't like releasing incomplete games, would it be very difficult to change all references to Monty and release the old game as an open source project? I must admit I always wanted to check out the rest of the monty levels. I was always curious what happened next. remember the copyright holders never even played the game, so they've no idea what the game does or doesn't contain or if there are any relations to monty. in fact they probably forgot all about you. I'm sure they have better things to do than chase an audiogame developer around for very little gain. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] 80's games suggestion
Hi tom. well, it's up to you, but personally I've had hours of fun with games like Turrican getting incredibly! lost in huge side scroller levels which take hours to work through. While the consistancy point does make sense, it to me seems reasonable as an evolution of the game series, - heck, even the tomb rader series has a side scrolling game on the Ds I believe at the moment. While it's dinstinctly your game, and I'll enjoy an fps as much as anyone, i'd very much prefer the first tomb hunter game to stay the way it is, consistancy or not. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 4:01 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] 80's games suggestion Hi Bryan, That's just it. After Mysteries of the Ancients is done all of the games I create in the Tomb Hunter series will definitely be 3D FPS titles. Which means in all likelihood I'll end up having to redo Mysteries of the Ancients as an FPS game anyway. I'll never like it or enjoy it until I do. I'm something of a consistency fanatic. If I introduce a set of keyboard commands in the first Tomb Hunter game then I would like to stick to that general layout throughout the game series. In other words keep the layout more or less consistent. However,since this first one is a side-scroller, and the rest will be more advanced FPS titles I'm not going to be able to maintain an exact keyboard layout throughout the series. In addition, since this first one will be a side-scroller, and the next one will be a 3D FPS game you will pretty much have to relearn the game from scratch. No game in the ag market I know of gives you the ability to go north, south, east, west, up, and down in a level. That's six directions of movement in a true 3d environment. If people think Shades of Doom is difficult to navigate they'll be absolutely lost in a full 3D environment. Imagine, for example, you enter an empty room with a hole in the floor you have to drop through. In Shades of Doom you will fall through to another level. In my engine you would be on the same game level, but in a room below the one you just left. You might have to find another room on that level with a rope or staircase to get back up to the rooms above those you are in. To me this is the ultimate gaming experience, ultimate maze game, and more like exploring a real tomb. A 2d side-scroller, advanced features or not, will never be quite as realistic or exciting for me. That's why I would eventually redo the game as an FPS game with or without public approval. Smile. Bryan Peterson wrote: Besides, if the rest of the Tomb Hunter series are going to be more like 3-D FPS games you'll cover both bases anyway. As I've said before I'm more than satisfied with the game as is and I think you ought to just finish it as quickly and efficiently as you can and then take that nice long break I know you've been craving. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] My MOTA Decision
Hi tom. Fantastic! i couldn't be more pleased with this decision, - especially that your going to make creation of 2D games a perminent part of the engine and a matter for future considderation. Personally, I have every intention of fully playing and enjoying both mota titles absolutely! Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 4:55 AM Subject: [Audyssey] My MOTA Decision Hi everyone, After reading many e-mails, after much thought, I've come to the following conclusions about the future of Mysteries of the Ancients. First, while many of you said you would enjoy an FPS type title you also said that you like the game as it currently is. Even those who were hoping for perhaps a more traditional 80's type side-scroller admitted they could except Mysteries of the Ancients as it is as long as I would not convert it to a full blown FPS. This is the kind of compromise I think I was looking for. Both sides seam to be agreeing that the game I've created is not only unique, but fun, challenging, and seams to satisfy the majority of people in both camps. Second, a number of you indicated you have no sense of direction, navigation, whatever in playing FPS type games like Shades of Doom. As this seams to be a rather common problem among blind gamers I'm certainly sympathetic to your needs and issues. As a developer of accessible games it is always helpful to know what types of games my potential customers would find fun, challenging, and accessible. Even though it might not be my forte this is still very useful information to know. For one thing as plenty of you know near the beginning of 2008 I began work on a highly advanced game engine called Genesis 3D. When I initially designed that engine I intended to be able to create 3D FPS type titles with full 3d movement such as the ability to walk forward/backward, move left/right, or climb up/down. There has never been a fully accessible title with true 3d levels, true 3d movement, and built to mainstream specifications other than Audio Quake I know of. However, one thing I had not counted on is a majority of my customers having navigational issues in existing FPS games like Shades of Doom and Sarah. As I generally don't have a big problem finding my way around in these games I assumed most blind gamers didn't either. So I'm a bit surprised that many of you do. The point I'm getting at is that FPS games built with my engine would add a new demmention of complexity that none of you have experienced before. Such as you might walk into a room with a hole in the floor. You would have to jump into or crawl down through that hole to enter a room below the one you are in. To get back up to the room you just left you would have to climb a rope, staircase, ladder, etc to get back up to the rooms above you. Basically, what I'm saying is not all of the rooms would be on a flat surface, and you might have to climb up or down as well as go north, south, east, or west to explore the entire level. As this is a totally new experience for many of you I'm not sure all of you would enjoy it. Those of you who have navigational issues may find this too complicated or frustrating. So having a side-scroller probably would be better suited for you in the long run. Third, to Dark, Scott, and many others I hear you. The fact of the matter is this is now 2009, and there are now many good examples of side-scrollers that are every bit as good as the FPS titles out there. Dark has convinced me that rather than trying to please a handful of gamers who want a 80's style side-scroller I should investigate ways to create a completely new, modern, type of side-scroller with save game functionality, random monsters, random items, modern combat styles, etc. To that end I say, bring it on! As also has been said, now that I've spent all this time upgrading the Genesis Engine to support 2d side-scrollers as well as more advanced FPS type games I might as well get some use out of that functionality. Today it might be MOTA, and someday when I'm ready maybe i can do something else like a modern Castlevania, Megaman, or Double Dragon type clone. The ability/functionality is there. All and all for the time being I'm going to stick with the current production plan. I have officially abandoned any plans to create a traditional 80's style side-scroller, and think I would be satisfied to create a completely modern side-scroller. So those of you such as Dark, who are more familiar with modern side-scrollers if you have any good ideas I'm missing I'd be happy to take them under advisement. That said, I'll only add what I have time to include, and of course what I think is practical for an accessible game. As for my own thoughts and feelings on the matter I have never concealed the fact I'd rather be making a true FPS
[Audyssey] a vip scripting issue was: Re: miriani soundpack
hi dan, you're using the pack I made. I haven't released it to the public and only a minority of people done testing for me, that being you, kevin, and my self at the controls kevin prbably got the newer version with the engines n such but at the moment I can't send any newer copies because of a scripting issue I have. I made many new triggers but when I close vip all my changes are gone, but if I open the set file in notepad the triggers are there. I wish someone'd help me as there are a few things I made but can't access. - Original Message - From: dan daniel_...@hotmail.co.uk To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 11:50 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] miriani soundpack hi. yeah i use a vip mud soundpack, just not sure what one it is. hmm If you're alone, I'll be your shadow. If you want to cry, I'll be your shoulder. If you want a hug, I'll be your pillow. If you need to be happy, I'll be your smile. But anytime you need a friend, I'll just be me -- From: Nick Helms nick.he...@gmail.com Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 10:46 PM To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Subject: Re: [Audyssey] miriani soundpack yeah I'm not sure about vip mud. I've only ever played miriani with monkeyterm. again, I haven't played in quite a while. anyone know of any vip mud soundpacks? I'm pretty sure there are some out there. I'm just not sure where to find them. Good luck! Best, Nick On 10/29/09, dan daniel_...@hotmail.co.uk wrote: hey nick, i'm not actually sure. i use vip mud as my client if that helps at all?. i'm just anoyed that me and a friend both use the same client yet he seems to have more sounds. If you're alone, I'll be your shadow. If you want to cry, I'll be your shoulder. If you want a hug, I'll be your pillow. If you need to be happy, I'll be your smile. But anytime you need a friend, I'll just be me -- From: Nick Helms nick.he...@gmail.com Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 9:55 PM To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Subject: Re: [Audyssey] miriani soundpack what's up Dan! There are two miriani soundpacks that I know of. the first appears in monkeyterm as miriani. the second is called miriani6. wich one do you have? Miriani6 is newer, and has more sounds. I am not sure I have the most up to date info, as I have not played miriani in some time. But there are two packs that I know of. On 10/29/09, dan daniel_...@hotmail.co.uk wrote: hi everyone, is anyone on this list playing miriani?. i'm a bit confused, as someone who i like to play miriani with seems to have more sounds than i do, and as far as i know, we both use the same pack. any help with this would be great. thanks If you're alone, I'll be your shadow. If you want to cry, I'll be your shoulder. If you want a hug, I'll be your pillow. If you need to be happy, I'll be your smile. But anytime you need a friend, I'll just be me --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. -- I am not stupid. I just do dumb things! Theodore Jonson website: Nickhelms.net sip phone number: 360-526-6509 twitter: Nickster919 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. -- I am not stupid. I just do dumb things! Theodore Jonson website: Nickhelms.net sip phone number: 360-526-6509 twitter: Nickster919 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
Re: [Audyssey] Help in mota please
and I donno if anyone mensioned this, you have to have your weapon holstered to make a successful jump. - Original Message - From: Hayden Presley hdpres...@hotmail.com To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 1:19 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Help in mota please Another (and easier, I think) wyy is to listen for dripping water; at that point you can jump on to either ledge. Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Phil Vlasak Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 8:27 AM To: mmaslo1...@swbell.net; Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Help in mota please Hi Mike, As I climb the rope I hit the c key to get the coordinates when I reach 11 I can jump left or right onto the ledges. You can also use the v key and it will say a door to the right when you are high enough to jump. If you are too low, it will say a door above and I think if too high it will say a door below. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4333 (20090813) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4333 (20090813) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] 80's games suggestion
Well Tom, I'd appreciate that just for the purpose of preserving an interesting game and adding another great audio remake to the Ag markit. that being said, if you were sick to the teeth of the hole side scroller mallarchy after Mota is finished, and wanted to give it a rest, I don't think any reasonable person could blame you. Beware the grue! dark. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 5:05 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] 80's games suggestion Hi Dark, Well, I suppose I could upgrade the game after Christmas, or whenever, and release it as 1.0. I'd actually like to see the last four levels get added, put Arazona Smith back in the game, and a few other additions. It wouldn't take me more than amonth to tidy it up and release it as v1.0. It was a lot closer to being finished than is MOTA at this point. dark wrote: Fair enough tom, though personally I never noticed either of these bugs being a major annoyence and found (heck, stil find), the game highly playable. Lack of a distance reporting function is just some extra added challenge. while I'm as sorry as anyone that the stupid legalities got in the way of you delivering what was shaping up to be a great game, I do think Mota has improved upon things no end, while keeping the inervation which Monti started. Beware the Grue! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] a vip scripting issue was: Re: miriani soundpack
hi peter, thanks for clearing that up and i hope to get the new version soon If you're alone, I'll be your shadow. If you want to cry, I'll be your shoulder. If you want a hug, I'll be your pillow. If you need to be happy, I'll be your smile. But anytime you need a friend, I'll just be me -- From: peter Mahach piterm...@gmail.com Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 8:52 AM To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Subject: [Audyssey] a vip scripting issue was: Re: miriani soundpack hi dan, you're using the pack I made. I haven't released it to the public and only a minority of people done testing for me, that being you, kevin, and my self at the controls kevin prbably got the newer version with the engines n such but at the moment I can't send any newer copies because of a scripting issue I have. I made many new triggers but when I close vip all my changes are gone, but if I open the set file in notepad the triggers are there. I wish someone'd help me as there are a few things I made but can't access. - Original Message - From: dan daniel_...@hotmail.co.uk To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 11:50 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] miriani soundpack hi. yeah i use a vip mud soundpack, just not sure what one it is. hmm If you're alone, I'll be your shadow. If you want to cry, I'll be your shoulder. If you want a hug, I'll be your pillow. If you need to be happy, I'll be your smile. But anytime you need a friend, I'll just be me -- From: Nick Helms nick.he...@gmail.com Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 10:46 PM To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Subject: Re: [Audyssey] miriani soundpack yeah I'm not sure about vip mud. I've only ever played miriani with monkeyterm. again, I haven't played in quite a while. anyone know of any vip mud soundpacks? I'm pretty sure there are some out there. I'm just not sure where to find them. Good luck! Best, Nick On 10/29/09, dan daniel_...@hotmail.co.uk wrote: hey nick, i'm not actually sure. i use vip mud as my client if that helps at all?. i'm just anoyed that me and a friend both use the same client yet he seems to have more sounds. If you're alone, I'll be your shadow. If you want to cry, I'll be your shoulder. If you want a hug, I'll be your pillow. If you need to be happy, I'll be your smile. But anytime you need a friend, I'll just be me -- From: Nick Helms nick.he...@gmail.com Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 9:55 PM To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Subject: Re: [Audyssey] miriani soundpack what's up Dan! There are two miriani soundpacks that I know of. the first appears in monkeyterm as miriani. the second is called miriani6. wich one do you have? Miriani6 is newer, and has more sounds. I am not sure I have the most up to date info, as I have not played miriani in some time. But there are two packs that I know of. On 10/29/09, dan daniel_...@hotmail.co.uk wrote: hi everyone, is anyone on this list playing miriani?. i'm a bit confused, as someone who i like to play miriani with seems to have more sounds than i do, and as far as i know, we both use the same pack. any help with this would be great. thanks If you're alone, I'll be your shadow. If you want to cry, I'll be your shoulder. If you want a hug, I'll be your pillow. If you need to be happy, I'll be your smile. But anytime you need a friend, I'll just be me --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. -- I am not stupid. I just do dumb things! Theodore Jonson website: Nickhelms.net sip phone number: 360-526-6509 twitter: Nickster919 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
Re: [Audyssey] Help in mota please
Yeah, because you can't even grab the rope otherwise. Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of pizza? Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash. - Original Message - From: peter Mahach piterm...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 2:53 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Help in mota please and I donno if anyone mensioned this, you have to have your weapon holstered to make a successful jump. - Original Message - From: Hayden Presley hdpres...@hotmail.com To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 1:19 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Help in mota please Another (and easier, I think) wyy is to listen for dripping water; at that point you can jump on to either ledge. Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Phil Vlasak Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 8:27 AM To: mmaslo1...@swbell.net; Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Help in mota please Hi Mike, As I climb the rope I hit the c key to get the coordinates when I reach 11 I can jump left or right onto the ledges. You can also use the v key and it will say a door to the right when you are high enough to jump. If you are too low, it will say a door above and I think if too high it will say a door below. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4333 (20090813) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4333 (20090813) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] My MOTA Decision
I think those are some good thoughts. I'm glad you won't be limiting yourself to side scrollers, not because I'm good at FPS type games, though I like both types of game play, but because, in my opinion, we already are limited dimensionally as blind people. Our screen readers give us info on a 1-dimensional plain--up and down. You can go left and right of course but you rarely ever need to. As far as navigating goes, I think the biggest problem isn't navigating itself but trying to remember all the places you were, the overall shape of the levels and so on. I have a few thoughts on this point. First, a homing beacon could be set up to continually draw the player on to the next item of interest--not the one closer by distance, because you could be in a maze where the exit is ten feet away but be nowhere near it in terms of being able to reach it quickly. A homing signal could, though, tell the player where interesting items were by proximity not to them in terms of spacial reality, but rather in terms of what is closer considering how the maze is navigated, the walls in the way and so on. Next, I'd love a disappearing hallways option. If you go down a hallway and explore all side passages and get all relevant items, and if the hallway or dead end has no more function, I'd like to be able to seal it off. That way I'm not just wandering the same passages again and again trying to get to the next place of importance. I have recently been looking at virtual worlds, and navigating them using the voICe. An interesting idea that comes up in the navigation of these virtual worlds is that you can go from one element of interest to another and back again with the page up and page down commands. Similarly, in a mud, you can type remember bar and, later, go to that same bar you remembered earlier. Descriptions of rooms were interesting for me, but not helpful as far as navigating. The main thing for me was, had I been there before, its relationship to other rooms in terms of reachability and not necessarily coordinates, and so on. Well, I'm satisfied with this post except that JAWS can't say reach ability. LOL Keep up the awesome work! Do you live near Sandusky Ohio, or are you planning a trip to Cedar Point? Receive a massage at very competitive rates--$40 per hour for a revitalizing therapeutic massage, $65 per house call--any time, anywhere (within reason.) Call 419-577-7973 I'll ease your pain and discomfort, loosen and mobilize your stiff joints, relax your achy muscles, and help you let go of stress, depression, and nervous anxiety... Ken Downey, LMT President of Blind Comfort! The Caring Without the Staring and DreamtechInteractive - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 12:55 AM Subject: [Audyssey] My MOTA Decision Hi everyone, After reading many e-mails, after much thought, I've come to the following conclusions about the future of Mysteries of the Ancients. First, while many of you said you would enjoy an FPS type title you also said that you like the game as it currently is. Even those who were hoping for perhaps a more traditional 80's type side-scroller admitted they could except Mysteries of the Ancients as it is as long as I would not convert it to a full blown FPS. This is the kind of compromise I think I was looking for. Both sides seam to be agreeing that the game I've created is not only unique, but fun, challenging, and seams to satisfy the majority of people in both camps. Second, a number of you indicated you have no sense of direction, navigation, whatever in playing FPS type games like Shades of Doom. As this seams to be a rather common problem among blind gamers I'm certainly sympathetic to your needs and issues. As a developer of accessible games it is always helpful to know what types of games my potential customers would find fun, challenging, and accessible. Even though it might not be my forte this is still very useful information to know. For one thing as plenty of you know near the beginning of 2008 I began work on a highly advanced game engine called Genesis 3D. When I initially designed that engine I intended to be able to create 3D FPS type titles with full 3d movement such as the ability to walk forward/backward, move left/right, or climb up/down. There has never been a fully accessible title with true 3d levels, true 3d movement, and built to mainstream specifications other than Audio Quake I know of. However, one thing I had not counted on is a majority of my customers having navigational issues in existing FPS games like Shades of Doom and Sarah. As I generally don't have a big problem finding my way around in these games I assumed most blind gamers didn't either. So I'm a bit surprised that many of you do. The point I'm getting at is that FPS games built with my engine would add a new demmention of
[Audyssey] Future plans?
Hi Tom, With your final dicission, does this mean that there will not be any fully accessible 3d titles in the future? Find Bathroom Remodelers Get free estimates from top-rated bathroom contractors. No obligation! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/c?cp=K0cQ8ajahW-ZEuhYN1xw1wAAJz2jaNpB6CPeiffPNfNRseoUAAQFACLbFj8AAAMlABIYOQA= --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Future plans?
See I got the impression he'd stated just the opposite. He stated that he would release MOTA as is, meaning the modern side scroller, but that he planned at some point, though he wasn't sure when, to do an upgrade of MOTA that would convert it into 3-d. And I think he still plans for the rest of the Tomb Hunter series to be fully 3-D. Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of pizza? Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash. - Original Message - From: Ryan Conroy staindadd...@juno.com To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 7:12 AM Subject: [Audyssey] Future plans? Hi Tom, With your final dicission, does this mean that there will not be any fully accessible 3d titles in the future? Find Bathroom Remodelers Get free estimates from top-rated bathroom contractors. No obligation! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/c?cp=K0cQ8ajahW-ZEuhYN1xw1wAAJz2jaNpB6CPeiffPNfNRseoUAAQFACLbFj8AAAMlABIYOQA= --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] are these aids for the beginner? - Re: My MOTA Decision
Would disappearing passages and a homing signal be useful, say, only at the beginner level? I would think this would make the game more easily completed. The more experienced gamer would not need such aids. Just my immediate thoughts. --- In God we trust! - Original Message - From: Ken kenwdow...@neo.rr.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 12:08 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] My MOTA Decision I think those are some good thoughts. I'm glad you won't be limiting yourself to side scrollers, not because I'm good at FPS type games, though I like both types of game play, but because, in my opinion, we already are limited dimensionally as blind people. Our screen readers give us info on a 1-dimensional plain--up and down. You can go left and right of course but you rarely ever need to. As far as navigating goes, I think the biggest problem isn't navigating itself but trying to remember all the places you were, the overall shape of the levels and so on. I have a few thoughts on this point. First, a homing beacon could be set up to continually draw the player on to the next item of interest--not the one closer by distance, because you could be in a maze where the exit is ten feet away but be nowhere near it in terms of being able to reach it quickly. A homing signal could, though, tell the player where interesting items were by proximity not to them in terms of spacial reality, but rather in terms of what is closer considering how the maze is navigated, the walls in the way and so on. Next, I'd love a disappearing hallways option. If you go down a hallway and explore all side passages and get all relevant items, and if the hallway or dead end has no more function, I'd like to be able to seal it off. That way I'm not just wandering the same passages again and again trying to get to the next place of importance. I have recently been looking at virtual worlds, and navigating them using the voICe. An interesting idea that comes up in the navigation of these virtual worlds is that you can go from one element of interest to another and back again with the page up and page down commands. Similarly, in a mud, you can type remember bar and, later, go to that same bar you remembered earlier. Descriptions of rooms were interesting for me, but not helpful as far as navigating. The main thing for me was, had I been there before, its relationship to other rooms in terms of reachability and not necessarily coordinates, and so on. Well, I'm satisfied with this post except that JAWS can't say reach ability. LOL Keep up the awesome work! Do you live near Sandusky Ohio, or are you planning a trip to Cedar Point? Receive a massage at very competitive rates--$40 per hour for a revitalizing therapeutic massage, $65 per house call--any time, anywhere (within reason.) Call 419-577-7973 I'll ease your pain and discomfort, loosen and mobilize your stiff joints, relax your achy muscles, and help you let go of stress, depression, and nervous anxiety... Ken Downey, LMT President of Blind Comfort! The Caring Without the Staring and DreamtechInteractive - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 12:55 AM Subject: [Audyssey] My MOTA Decision Hi everyone, After reading many e-mails, after much thought, I've come to the following conclusions about the future of Mysteries of the Ancients. First, while many of you said you would enjoy an FPS type title you also said that you like the game as it currently is. Even those who were hoping for perhaps a more traditional 80's type side-scroller admitted they could except Mysteries of the Ancients as it is as long as I would not convert it to a full blown FPS. This is the kind of compromise I think I was looking for. Both sides seam to be agreeing that the game I've created is not only unique, but fun, challenging, and seams to satisfy the majority of people in both camps. Second, a number of you indicated you have no sense of direction, navigation, whatever in playing FPS type games like Shades of Doom. As this seams to be a rather common problem among blind gamers I'm certainly sympathetic to your needs and issues. As a developer of accessible games it is always helpful to know what types of games my potential customers would find fun, challenging, and accessible. Even though it might not be my forte this is still very useful information to know. For one thing as plenty of you know near the beginning of 2008 I began work on a highly advanced game engine called Genesis 3D. When I initially designed that engine I intended to be able to create 3D FPS type titles with full 3d movement such as the ability to walk forward/backward, move left/right, or climb up/down. There has never been a fully accessible title with true 3d levels, true 3d movement, and built to mainstream specifications other than Audio Quake I know of.
Re: [Audyssey] My MOTA Decision
Hi Tom. Clementhere, and I just want to say I'm glad you've decded what you have. Like I said already, I'm a fan of both styles... but I'm glad to see what you've decided, and I'm anticipatng what Mota is going to beocme when it's fully fnished. As for 3d fps titles likethe ones you describe... I say go for it. I've played a lot of these whic were unaccessible... Counter strike and Haylo to name two of them. I for one enjoy it, and thoug I have some navigational issues, iI can usually find my way eventually! lol. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 8:55 PM Subject: [Audyssey] My MOTA Decision Hi everyone, After reading many e-mails, after much thought, I've come to the following conclusions about the future of Mysteries of the Ancients. First, while many of you said you would enjoy an FPS type title you also said that you like the game as it currently is. Even those who were hoping for perhaps a more traditional 80's type side-scroller admitted they could except Mysteries of the Ancients as it is as long as I would not convert it to a full blown FPS. This is the kind of compromise I think I was looking for. Both sides seam to be agreeing that the game I've created is not only unique, but fun, challenging, and seams to satisfy the majority of people in both camps. Second, a number of you indicated you have no sense of direction, navigation, whatever in playing FPS type games like Shades of Doom. As this seams to be a rather common problem among blind gamers I'm certainly sympathetic to your needs and issues. As a developer of accessible games it is always helpful to know what types of games my potential customers would find fun, challenging, and accessible. Even though it might not be my forte this is still very useful information to know. For one thing as plenty of you know near the beginning of 2008 I began work on a highly advanced game engine called Genesis 3D. When I initially designed that engine I intended to be able to create 3D FPS type titles with full 3d movement such as the ability to walk forward/backward, move left/right, or climb up/down. There has never been a fully accessible title with true 3d levels, true 3d movement, and built to mainstream specifications other than Audio Quake I know of. However, one thing I had not counted on is a majority of my customers having navigational issues in existing FPS games like Shades of Doom and Sarah. As I generally don't have a big problem finding my way around in these games I assumed most blind gamers didn't either. So I'm a bit surprised that many of you do. The point I'm getting at is that FPS games built with my engine would add a new demmention of complexity that none of you have experienced before. Such as you might walk into a room with a hole in the floor. You would have to jump into or crawl down through that hole to enter a room below the one you are in. To get back up to the room you just left you would have to climb a rope, staircase, ladder, etc to get back up to the rooms above you. Basically, what I'm saying is not all of the rooms would be on a flat surface, and you might have to climb up or down as well as go north, south, east, or west to explore the entire level. As this is a totally new experience for many of you I'm not sure all of you would enjoy it. Those of you who have navigational issues may find this too complicated or frustrating. So having a side-scroller probably would be better suited for you in the long run. Third, to Dark, Scott, and many others I hear you. The fact of the matter is this is now 2009, and there are now many good examples of side-scrollers that are every bit as good as the FPS titles out there. Dark has convinced me that rather than trying to please a handful of gamers who want a 80's style side-scroller I should investigate ways to create a completely new, modern, type of side-scroller with save game functionality, random monsters, random items, modern combat styles, etc. To that end I say, bring it on! As also has been said, now that I've spent all this time upgrading the Genesis Engine to support 2d side-scrollers as well as more advanced FPS type games I might as well get some use out of that functionality. Today it might be MOTA, and someday when I'm ready maybe i can do something else like a modern Castlevania, Megaman, or Double Dragon type clone. The ability/functionality is there. All and all for the time being I'm going to stick with the current production plan. I have officially abandoned any plans to create a traditional 80's style side-scroller, and think I would be satisfied to create a completely modern side-scroller. So those of you such as Dark, who are more familiar with modern side-scrollers if you have any good ideas I'm missing I'd be happy to take them under advisement. That said, I'll only add what I
Re: [Audyssey] Future plans?
Yeah, I was just making sure that because some people have issues with navagation, he wasn't going to stop all development of 3d games all together. Because I'd love to see an accessible game in 3d. The Art Institutes Get Info on our Media Arts Programs - Film, Audio, Web More! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/c?cp=p9XpCrw5MrVWEQ_jL8WobQAAJz2jaNpB6CPeiffPNfNRseoUAAQFAIRl-z4AAAMlAAhBQAA= --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] My MOTA Decision
Hi Shaun, Well, I don't think a true 3d FPS would have to be that tough once you and others get use to it. Most of it would come down to being able to describe it accurately for the player. Let's say there was a trap door high up in the ceiling. If you press the view command it would say something like trap door above and to the left in 10 feet. It might also anounce a statue, stone pillar, etc nearby which you could theoretically climb up, stand on, and use to open that trap door. Mainstream games have had these sorts of puzzles and challenges for a long time, but it is this element that is completely lacking in accessible games so far. Anyway, I don't believe it is incredibly difficult or frustrating, but it does require the player to think about where things are in relationship to each other in a more or less true 3d environment. As for me, the developer, I'll have to work harder at describing that relationship to the novis player that maybe can't quite get it for one reason or another. Smile. shaun everiss wrote: hmmm that does sound hard but new and esciting, The fps stuff has always been easy but it gets boring after a bit, but your stuff would be truely 3d in action and in sound, it will be frustratingly tough but I am looking foreward to when one eventually comes up. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] My MOTA Decision
Hi Bryan, Understandable. When I wrote that first post I was pretty much at the end of my rope you could say. I was pretty frustrated, clearly upset, and just sick and tired of being nagged by this group or another. Now, however, I feel much better. I had my say, and we have embarked on a course of action. I've stated for the record the game will be a modern side-scroller and that should hopefully end the debate for once and for all. Bryan Peterson wrote: That makes me feel better too. I felt no small amount of apprehension when I saw your first message on the subject, remembering all too well the flare-up over it the last time it was raised. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] 80's games suggestion
Hi Dark, Yeah, that is pretty much what I said last night in my MOTA Decision post.If you have not already done so you might want to read that post as I pretty much laid out my decision in detail and why I did so. Smile. dark wrote: Hi tom. As i've said Tom, I really would like a modern side scroller. as you've already got the genesis engine, the possibility exists for you to create an fps game at a later point without too much trouble, where as you probably don't fancy writing side scrollers again. Personally, I'd most like to see those extra levels etc done, and the game stand as a great example of what can be created in audio 2D. Fps can wait for a later time. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] 80's games suggestion
Hi Dark, Oh, I'm not changing the game. I was just making my feelings known publically. Though that won't in anyway stop me from producing the best side-scroller I can for you guys. As for Tomb Raider there were a total of three side-scrollers produced that I know of. I think I may wish to download the walkthroughs for those side-scrollers and get some ideas from them. I've played a couple of them before on my Gameboy, but I can't remember them in 100% detail. dark wrote: Hi tom. well, it's up to you, but personally I've had hours of fun with games like Turrican getting incredibly! lost in huge side scroller levels which take hours to work through. While the consistancy point does make sense, it to me seems reasonable as an evolution of the game series, - heck, even the tomb rader series has a side scrolling game on the Ds I believe at the moment. While it's dinstinctly your game, and I'll enjoy an fps as much as anyone, i'd very much prefer the first tomb hunter game to stay the way it is, consistancy or not. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS
I hope I am not to late in responding to this topic as I just checked my email for the first time in several days. However, I would like to say that I personally would like a more modern type game. I hust like the modern style better and that is nothing against a side scroller since I remember playing Mario when I was younger and was a high enough partial to do so. I just like the chance to have a modern game, those are the ones that I want to play now and can't. Kellie and my lovable Lady J. Resident Adviser, Guide Dogs for the Blind Oregon campus www.guidedogs.com - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 3:03 PM Subject: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS Hi everyone, This has been something I've wanted to say for quite a while now, and I think now is the time I need to say it. To get this out of the way as your opinions, responses, etc will completely determine the future of the game from here on out. This is extremely important, and I hope all of you take this message very seriously. I hope you think about your responses very carefully before responding as your input is very important to me right now. As most of you know James North was planning on releasing a remake of the classic side-scroller Montezuma's Revenge. He took several orders for that game in December of 2004, but do to a variety of personal issues he was unable to complete the game within the time specified. Eventually, I took over development of the game in early 2006, and I decided to rewrite the game in C# .NET. I was nearly finished with the game in January of 2008, had already taken orders for the game myself, when I was contacted privately regarding the game's copyright infringement. As neither James or I had legally applied for permission to make a modern remake of the game I was officially ordered to cease and desist all development of the game. Rather than fight the cease and desist order I complied, and began my own side-scroller called Mysteries of the Ancients. It was initially intended to be a classic side-scroller along the lines of Pitfall, Montezuma's Revenge, Mario Brothers, and similar games. The thing to keep in mind here is that those games lacked many of the features modern FPS games have today. There was no such thing as randomly placed items and monsters, you couldn't save your game and pick up where you left off later, when you punched an enemy you didn't miss unless you were too far away, etc. The main object of the game was to beat the game and earn the highest score possible. For some of you younger gamers it would be quite primitive compared to the Play Station and XBox games you are use too. It was a completely different generation of gaming. I realized back then that many of you may not be happy with a 1980's type of side-scroller. I asked many of you if you would be happy with a more modern FPS game instead. The answer i got back was a resounding no! A couple of you wrote me very passionate letters about how much you would like to be able to play a classic side-scroller like those that were out in the 1980's that you were never able to play. So I set out to do just that. However, what I had feared all along began to come true. Many of you began making requests that were completely contrary to the type of game that was being developed. You asked for random items and monsters. After some debate I decided to add that feature, and removed the scoring feature since it was no longer needed. Those of you who wanted the feature were happy to get it, but those who didn't began asking me for a way to turn it off. They wanted a classic side-scroller, and asked me to stop adding features like that. Since it was too much work to have it both ways I had to decide to leave the random items and monsters in since most of the people liked it that way. The thing is the suggestions and requests didn't stop there. Over the passed year I've been consistently asked to add features like you would typically find on more modern FPS type games. It isn't so much I am a posed to adding these kinds of features, but it is inconsistent with an 80's type side-scroller. As the game currently is it is neither a classic side-scroller, and it isn't a fully modern FPS game either. For that reason some people, including myself, are unhappy with the way the game is turning out. I would much prefer either a straight out classic side-scroller or a modern FPS game. At this point the game is neither one, and is a bit of a mix of both styles. That might not be bad, but over the passed few months I've grown to completely hate the game because it isn't the game I wanted to create. It is nothing like it. So here is the question. Do you guys want me to go back and make this game as a classic side-scroller, as was intended initially, without randomized monsters and items, no save game features,
Re: [Audyssey] My MOTA Decision
Hi Dark, As I said in my message several people impressed upon me how much easier side-scrollers are to play, how much more accessible they are, and I do think it has enormous commercial potential. Therefore it makes sense in releasing a handful of side-scrollers at some future point. What I may do, though, is split the engine into a couple of specialized versions. Keep Genesis 3D as the full 3d FPS engine, and make a stripped down 2d version for side-scrollers and other 2d type games. That way the game's can be specialized for there particular style or genre. As for my personal feelings I don't have anything personal against side-scrollers. It is more to do with the fact when I was sighted I played several of them on my NES like castlevania, Megaman, Double Dragon, etc and it is like been there done that for me. When my vision started going the full 3d first person and third person games started hitting the market and they were hard to play because I couldn't see them that well. I want to pick up where I left off so to speak. However, we have this huge market of people who have never had vision who have never had a chance to play Castlevania, Super Mario, Double Dragon, Legend of Kage, or any of it because it was never fully accessible to them. So what is old hat to me is something brand new and revolutionary to them. So the irony is while I really want to move on, pick up where I left off, I'm also the perfect person to bring back clones of games most of our accessible games community has never played at all. For example, Megaman would be a fantastic game to bring to the accessible games market. I know it, you know it, and plenty of other accessible gamers know it. Obviously, Nintendo Entertainment would have my head if I used the name Megaman, but if I used Roboman, Ultraman, Cyberman, or something like that I could likely slip right under the legal radar. Something very like it could be created as long as I were careful to step over anything that smells of copyright infringement. I'm not against putting out a few games of that sort now and then. dark wrote: Hi tom. Fantastic! i couldn't be more pleased with this decision, - especially that your going to make creation of 2D games a perminent part of the engine and a matter for future considderation. Personally, I have every intention of fully playing and enjoying both mota titles absolutely! Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] My MOTA Decision
Tom, The one comment I'd make in response to your post is that, though there are blind people out there who have difficulty navigating 3D environments, there are also those of us who don't have that problem. I'd much rather have a game that raises the bar for some than keep it low so that some can be comfortable. If you're wanting to create something that's truly three-dimensional, please do. Ryan --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] My MOTA Decision
Hey Tom, Definitely a good call IMHO, makes a lot of sense. All I can say now is I'm looking forward to spending a vicarious Christmas as Angela Carter... which isn't something I've ever had to say before lol. The FPS navigation issues, though I don't seem to have those myself at least with the GMA engine, I think boils down to the fact that blind people very rarely have to memorise an entire map and be able to do whatever our version of visualising that in our minds eye is. Even when we learn a route to the shops or learn our way around a station or somewhere like that in everyday life, most blind people that I know of (myself included) seem to break that down into smaller stages and rely on clues or landmarks to trigger the next stage in their memory. Might be different for you because as far as I know you've had usable vision for quite a while, but I think this explains why blind people giving a sighted person directions is often quite bizzarre unless it's a route they know like the back of their hand so they can actually pull up the overall layout in their mind. This is also why I think, in the main, most of us in real life struggle to retrace our steps, because instead of just visualising where we've been and flipping it around, we have to reverse each individual stage. Just musing on it in case it helps you to come up with some sort of navigation information commands that might give those who struggle with FPS navigation a fighting chance and maybe increase their capacity at the same time. Having played Audio Quake pretty thoroughly a few years ago (the single player levels too) I can tell you I struggled a tad at points with those maps, but it wasn't anything that a well thought out view command couldn't have solved for me in a synch. Scott On 10/30/09, Ken kenwdow...@neo.rr.com wrote: I think those are some good thoughts. I'm glad you won't be limiting yourself to side scrollers, not because I'm good at FPS type games, though I like both types of game play, but because, in my opinion, we already are limited dimensionally as blind people. Our screen readers give us info on a 1-dimensional plain--up and down. You can go left and right of course but you rarely ever need to. As far as navigating goes, I think the biggest problem isn't navigating itself but trying to remember all the places you were, the overall shape of the levels and so on. I have a few thoughts on this point. First, a homing beacon could be set up to continually draw the player on to the next item of interest--not the one closer by distance, because you could be in a maze where the exit is ten feet away but be nowhere near it in terms of being able to reach it quickly. A homing signal could, though, tell the player where interesting items were by proximity not to them in terms of spacial reality, but rather in terms of what is closer considering how the maze is navigated, the walls in the way and so on. Next, I'd love a disappearing hallways option. If you go down a hallway and explore all side passages and get all relevant items, and if the hallway or dead end has no more function, I'd like to be able to seal it off. That way I'm not just wandering the same passages again and again trying to get to the next place of importance. I have recently been looking at virtual worlds, and navigating them using the voICe. An interesting idea that comes up in the navigation of these virtual worlds is that you can go from one element of interest to another and back again with the page up and page down commands. Similarly, in a mud, you can type remember bar and, later, go to that same bar you remembered earlier. Descriptions of rooms were interesting for me, but not helpful as far as navigating. The main thing for me was, had I been there before, its relationship to other rooms in terms of reachability and not necessarily coordinates, and so on. Well, I'm satisfied with this post except that JAWS can't say reach ability. LOL Keep up the awesome work! Do you live near Sandusky Ohio, or are you planning a trip to Cedar Point? Receive a massage at very competitive rates--$40 per hour for a revitalizing therapeutic massage, $65 per house call--any time, anywhere (within reason.) Call 419-577-7973 I'll ease your pain and discomfort, loosen and mobilize your stiff joints, relax your achy muscles, and help you let go of stress, depression, and nervous anxiety... Ken Downey, LMT President of Blind Comfort! The Caring Without the Staring and DreamtechInteractive - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 12:55 AM Subject: [Audyssey] My MOTA Decision Hi everyone, After reading many e-mails, after much thought, I've come to the following conclusions about the future of Mysteries of the Ancients. First, while many of you said you would enjoy an FPS type title you also said that you like
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS
Although any other creator could create one, are they? --- In God we trust! - Original Message - From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 12:47 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS but why would the opportunity be lost? You do know thomas isn't the only audiogame developer. Any other dev could create a sidescroller. I'd be happy either way thomas wishes to go. I think it's about time he got a say in this and actually create something he'll enjoy. I was one of those who preordered Montezuma, and I'd be appreciative with a rock-tossing game if that's what thomas wished to make. He's certainly been through enough already. you guys gotta realize that everyone makes mistakes. Thomas made a huge mistake accepting responsibility for Montezuma. he knows it and we all know it. so just let the man do what he wants with the game and be happy with the results. - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 6:35 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS As I said in my post to Tom Bryan, I stil fail to see the connection betwene complex features and ditching the side scrolling genre. personally, whild i'd enjoy an fps game as much as anyone, --- I'd be sorry to see this oppertunity lost. Beware the grue! dark. - Original Message - From: Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 9:29 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS Personally, while I do like the idea of more side scrollers in the AG market I like the direction MOTA has taken so far. If keeping that means converting it to an FPS I personally would say go for that. The way I see it it's everybody's fault for requesting all these non-80s feature additions so they should have to live with the consequences. Someone else can develop their classic 80s style side scroller at a later time since I daresay you've become more than a little burnt out on the genre yourself. Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of pizza? Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 4:03 PM Subject: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS Hi everyone, This has been something I've wanted to say for quite a while now, and I think now is the time I need to say it. To get this out of the way as your opinions, responses, etc will completely determine the future of the game from here on out. This is extremely important, and I hope all of you take this message very seriously. I hope you think about your responses very carefully before responding as your input is very important to me right now. As most of you know James North was planning on releasing a remake of the classic side-scroller Montezuma's Revenge. He took several orders for that game in December of 2004, but do to a variety of personal issues he was unable to complete the game within the time specified. Eventually, I took over development of the game in early 2006, and I decided to rewrite the game in C# .NET. I was nearly finished with the game in January of 2008, had already taken orders for the game myself, when I was contacted privately regarding the game's copyright infringement. As neither James or I had legally applied for permission to make a modern remake of the game I was officially ordered to cease and desist all development of the game. Rather than fight the cease and desist order I complied, and began my own side-scroller called Mysteries of the Ancients. It was initially intended to be a classic side-scroller along the lines of Pitfall, Montezuma's Revenge, Mario Brothers, and similar games. The thing to keep in mind here is that those games lacked many of the features modern FPS games have today. There was no such thing as randomly placed items and monsters, you couldn't save your game and pick up where you left off later, when you punched an enemy you didn't miss unless you were too far away, etc. The main object of the game was to beat the game and earn the highest score possible. For some of you younger gamers it would be quite primitive compared to the Play Station and XBox games you are use too. It was a completely different generation of gaming. I realized back then that many of you may not be happy with a 1980's type of side-scroller. I asked many of you if you would be happy with a more modern FPS game instead. The answer i got back was a resounding no! A couple of you wrote me very passionate letters about how much you would like to be able to play a classic side-scroller like those that were out in the 1980's that you were never able to play. So I set out to do just that. However,
Re: [Audyssey] Future plans?
Hi Ryan, Yes, there will be. What I meant to say is that Mysteries of the Ancients will remain as a completely modern side-scroller, and that I will officially be making a 2d engine an option for future development. I still intend to release some advance 3d FPS games for those gamers like me who want them, but I do think given the number of problems with that genre it might be commercially better to release a few 2d games as well as 3d games to appeal to both groups. Especially, since both technologies now exist. Smile. Ryan Conroy wrote: Hi Tom, With your final dicission, does this mean that there will not be any fully accessible 3d titles in the future? Find Bathroom Remodelers Get free estimates from top-rated bathroom contractors. No obligation! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/c?cp=K0cQ8ajahW-ZEuhYN1xw1wAAJz2jaNpB6CPeiffPNfNRseoUAAQFACLbFj8AAAMlABIYOQA= --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] Games as a Navigation Teaching Tool, was: Re: My MOTA Decision
Hi folks, I am a bit late to this thread, but I just wanted to say that I totally agree with the thought that it is great to have a game that raises the bar and challenges people to stretch themselves mentally. This does not mean that I disagree with Thomas's decision about making side scrollers. I play Mota now, and will buy it when it comes out. I can see his point, as well as understand how frustrating 3d type environments can be for some to navigate. Many years ago, I too had problems trying to get my head around games that were not just 2d or side scroller in nature. I think a lot of the frustration stemmed from a lack of teaching about reading maps and understanding more advanced navigation concepts. To better understand the complexities of some of the games like Monkey Business, Sarah, SOD and others, I first decided to approach things as if I were walking around myself, even standing up while playing sometimes, and making 90 degree turns quite literally, just to picture my character walking, turning, and exploring. This helped me some. But the more I just gutted out the frustration and played the games, the more I was taught about navigating. Now, after several years, I prefer the more challenging environments. I guess what I am getting at is that sometimes we must get out of our comfort zones, even during play time, if we want to find ourselves challenged. Am I saying that everyone will and should learn how to navigate more complex environments? Absolutely not. I just think we all need to be gently reminded about the fact that sometimes a challenge is just what we need. I remember many years ago learning on my first computer. A lot of what I did was play games, in order to get a feel for typing and computer usage. I think a lot of us did that. We used games as teaching tools. We can do the same thing when we play games that have the more complex navigation environments. Games can be great tools for learning. maybe this will work for some of you, maybe not others, it is just one man's opinion. Jeremy - Original Message - From: Ryan Strunk ryan.str...@gmail.com To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 9:38 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] My MOTA Decision Tom, The one comment I'd make in response to your post is that, though there are blind people out there who have difficulty navigating 3D environments, there are also those of us who don't have that problem. I'd much rather have a game that raises the bar for some than keep it low so that some can be comfortable. If you're wanting to create something that's truly three-dimensional, please do. Ryan --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Future plans?
And for those of us who like both types of games, that's fantastic news indeed. Beware the grue! dark. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 5:50 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Future plans? Hi Ryan, Yes, there will be. What I meant to say is that Mysteries of the Ancients will remain as a completely modern side-scroller, and that I will officially be making a 2d engine an option for future development. I still intend to release some advance 3d FPS games for those gamers like me who want them, but I do think given the number of problems with that genre it might be commercially better to release a few 2d games as well as 3d games to appeal to both groups. Especially, since both technologies now exist. Smile. Ryan Conroy wrote: Hi Tom, With your final dicission, does this mean that there will not be any fully accessible 3d titles in the future? Find Bathroom Remodelers Get free estimates from top-rated bathroom contractors. No obligation! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/c?cp=K0cQ8ajahW-ZEuhYN1xw1wAAJz2jaNpB6CPeiffPNfNRseoUAAQFACLbFj8AAAMlABIYOQA= --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Future plans?
Hi, That's exactly what I said. I'm not changing Mysteries of the Ancients do to end user requests that I not do so, but that future games would likely be 3d FPS type titles. Bryan Peterson wrote: See I got the impression he'd stated just the opposite. He stated that he would release MOTA as is, meaning the modern side scroller, but that he planned at some point, though he wasn't sure when, to do an upgrade of MOTA that would convert it into 3-d. And I think he still plans for the rest of the Tomb Hunter series to be fully 3-D. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] My MOTA Decision
Hi tom. I fully agree with you to an extent and distinctly see your position. I first became interested in audio games myself because games like Shades allowed me to play game genres I normally do not have enough sight to, sinse 3D games are far too complex for me to visually cope with. to be brutally honest, I do certainly stil have the sight to play side scrollers, and in fact probably spend as much time on those sorts of games, either in original versions or more recent internet remakes (particularly of Turrican), as i DO PLAYING AUDIO GAMES. i'M IN FACT BETA TESTING A SIDE SCROLLER WITH EXTENSIVE LOW VISION ACCESS AND SAPI MENUES AT THE MOMENT. i AM HOWEVER CONSCIOUS THAT QUITE OBVIOUSLY THIS OPTION ISN'T THERE FOR MOST PEOPLE WHO PLAY AUDIO GAMES, WHICH IS A GREAT SHAME. It IS ONLY REALLY DUMB LUCK THAT i HAPPEN TO stil have a small amount of working vision and can thus stil play Mega man, metroid, turrican etc, and I'd absolutely love to be able to pass on to everyone who hasn't been as lucky with vision as I have, the hours and hours of fun i've had over the years with side scrollers. in fact, if you create a useable 2D game creation tool with the Genesis engine, when my Phd is done in a couple of years I well might have a look at realizing a personal dream, and creating an audio turrican game, complete with just as much exploration, all the weapons, and the award winningsound track composed by Chris Huelsbek, which is as famous as the game's themselves. I'll certainly be looking forward to the 3D game on a personal level, as this is certainly a game type I can't play, but I'm glad developement of the 2D game will continue to an extent as well. Beware the grue! dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] 3D navigation
Hi. to me, the difficulty of a 3D game depends entirely upon how good the navigation tools in that particular game are. Monkey business, i have to admit, I'm actually absolutely appauling! at and have never made it through the Jungle stage successfully. I just find the navigation used in that game extremely imprecise, as to pointing out objects, and spend most of my time running into walls uncertain of where I am. the games produced with the Gma engine, and indeed Terraformers however, are a vastly different story. The precise nature of audio to in game objects with turn indicators etc, the use of various viewing tools like the list view, or the 360 and streight ahead scans, the precise nature of object indication sounds and the ability to have objects in range listed by catagory using the monster view, not to mention of course some great sonar for targiting (though the audio precision in the Gma engine is quite useable as it is). All of these contribute to making 3D navigation not only possible, but considderably easy. I'm fairly certain that however complex the environment, Tom will be able to utilize tools to compensate, - actually I personally think the view function in 2D mota makes the game a litle too easy when calculating jumps (though I'm certainly not saying it should be removed or changed, just illustrating Tom's ability to create really good ease of use tools for his games. I'd therefore really encourage people who've felt 3D frustration not to be put off 3D entirely, and especially not by monkey business. Beware the grue! dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] 3D navigation
now I like monkey business. I have beaten the game it it is personally one of my favorite games out there. I love the 3d sound effects and find the difficulty the greatest part about it. I would love to see more games like that. Kellie and my lovable Lady J. Resident Adviser, Guide Dogs for the Blind Oregon campus www.guidedogs.com - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 10:29 AM Subject: [Audyssey] 3D navigation Hi. to me, the difficulty of a 3D game depends entirely upon how good the navigation tools in that particular game are. Monkey business, i have to admit, I'm actually absolutely appauling! at and have never made it through the Jungle stage successfully. I just find the navigation used in that game extremely imprecise, as to pointing out objects, and spend most of my time running into walls uncertain of where I am. the games produced with the Gma engine, and indeed Terraformers however, are a vastly different story. The precise nature of audio to in game objects with turn indicators etc, the use of various viewing tools like the list view, or the 360 and streight ahead scans, the precise nature of object indication sounds and the ability to have objects in range listed by catagory using the monster view, not to mention of course some great sonar for targiting (though the audio precision in the Gma engine is quite useable as it is). All of these contribute to making 3D navigation not only possible, but considderably easy. I'm fairly certain that however complex the environment, Tom will be able to utilize tools to compensate, - actually I personally think the view function in 2D mota makes the game a litle too easy when calculating jumps (though I'm certainly not saying it should be removed or changed, just illustrating Tom's ability to create really good ease of use tools for his games. I'd therefore really encourage people who've felt 3D frustration not to be put off 3D entirely, and especially not by monkey business. Beware the grue! dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Games as a Navigation Teaching Tool, was: Re: My MOTA Decision
Hello, I completely agree with you. It is our fear of failure and/or looking stupid and feeling frustrated which often holdes us back. Playing these sorts of games on the computer can help if we let it. David Chittenden, MS, CRC, MRCAA Jeremy Hartley wrote: Hi folks, I am a bit late to this thread, but I just wanted to say that I totally agree with the thought that it is great to have a game that raises the bar and challenges people to stretch themselves mentally. This does not mean that I disagree with Thomas's decision about making side scrollers. I play Mota now, and will buy it when it comes out. I can see his point, as well as understand how frustrating 3d type environments can be for some to navigate. Many years ago, I too had problems trying to get my head around games that were not just 2d or side scroller in nature. I think a lot of the frustration stemmed from a lack of teaching about reading maps and understanding more advanced navigation concepts. To better understand the complexities of some of the games like Monkey Business, Sarah, SOD and others, I first decided to approach things as if I were walking around myself, even standing up while playing sometimes, and making 90 degree turns quite literally, just to picture my character walking, turning, and exploring. This helped me some. But the more I just gutted out the frustration and played the games, the more I was taught about navigating. Now, after several years, I prefer the more challenging environments. I guess what I am getting at is that sometimes we must get out of our comfort zones, even during play time, if we want to find ourselves challenged. Am I saying that everyone will and should learn how to navigate more complex environments? Absolutely not. I just think we all need to be gently reminded about the fact that sometimes a challenge is just what we need. I remember many years ago learning on my first computer. A lot of what I did was play games, in order to get a feel for typing and computer usage. I think a lot of us did that. We used games as teaching tools. We can do the same thing when we play games that have the more complex navigation environments. Games can be great tools for learning. maybe this will work for some of you, maybe not others, it is just one man's opinion. Jeremy - Original Message - From: Ryan Strunk ryan.str...@gmail.com To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 9:38 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] My MOTA Decision Tom, The one comment I'd make in response to your post is that, though there are blind people out there who have difficulty navigating 3D environments, there are also those of us who don't have that problem. I'd much rather have a game that raises the bar for some than keep it low so that some can be comfortable. If you're wanting to create something that's truly three-dimensional, please do. Ryan --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] My MOTA Decision
Hi Thomas, Good for you...I'm glad you finally got that decision made; I'm sure it's been quite frustrating lately. About the FPS thing-I think that would be a good idea. Perhaps you could make it in such a way that people like myself (I admit I have absolutely no since of direction in FPS style games) could keep both versions on one's computer, so that one could try both and decide which they like better. Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Charles Rivard Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 4:03 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] My MOTA Decision I'll be looking forward to this finished game as well as any in the future. I've never tried a 3D game, and will take on the challenge. You never know what one is like until you try one. I don't know that I won't like it until I taste the food. I think you've made a good decision, and am behind you all the way, because you are trying to please the majority. --- In God we trust! - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 6:55 PM Subject: [Audyssey] My MOTA Decision Hi everyone, After reading many e-mails, after much thought, I've come to the following conclusions about the future of Mysteries of the Ancients. First, while many of you said you would enjoy an FPS type title you also said that you like the game as it currently is. Even those who were hoping for perhaps a more traditional 80's type side-scroller admitted they could except Mysteries of the Ancients as it is as long as I would not convert it to a full blown FPS. This is the kind of compromise I think I was looking for. Both sides seam to be agreeing that the game I've created is not only unique, but fun, challenging, and seams to satisfy the majority of people in both camps. Second, a number of you indicated you have no sense of direction, navigation, whatever in playing FPS type games like Shades of Doom. As this seams to be a rather common problem among blind gamers I'm certainly sympathetic to your needs and issues. As a developer of accessible games it is always helpful to know what types of games my potential customers would find fun, challenging, and accessible. Even though it might not be my forte this is still very useful information to know. For one thing as plenty of you know near the beginning of 2008 I began work on a highly advanced game engine called Genesis 3D. When I initially designed that engine I intended to be able to create 3D FPS type titles with full 3d movement such as the ability to walk forward/backward, move left/right, or climb up/down. There has never been a fully accessible title with true 3d levels, true 3d movement, and built to mainstream specifications other than Audio Quake I know of. However, one thing I had not counted on is a majority of my customers having navigational issues in existing FPS games like Shades of Doom and Sarah. As I generally don't have a big problem finding my way around in these games I assumed most blind gamers didn't either. So I'm a bit surprised that many of you do. The point I'm getting at is that FPS games built with my engine would add a new demmention of complexity that none of you have experienced before. Such as you might walk into a room with a hole in the floor. You would have to jump into or crawl down through that hole to enter a room below the one you are in. To get back up to the room you just left you would have to climb a rope, staircase, ladder, etc to get back up to the rooms above you. Basically, what I'm saying is not all of the rooms would be on a flat surface, and you might have to climb up or down as well as go north, south, east, or west to explore the entire level. As this is a totally new experience for many of you I'm not sure all of you would enjoy it. Those of you who have navigational issues may find this too complicated or frustrating. So having a side-scroller probably would be better suited for you in the long run. Third, to Dark, Scott, and many others I hear you. The fact of the matter is this is now 2009, and there are now many good examples of side-scrollers that are every bit as good as the FPS titles out there. Dark has convinced me that rather than trying to please a handful of gamers who want a 80's style side-scroller I should investigate ways to create a completely new, modern, type of side-scroller with save game functionality, random monsters, random items, modern combat styles, etc. To that end I say, bring it on! As also has been said, now that I've spent all this time upgrading the Genesis Engine to support 2d side-scrollers as well as more advanced FPS type games I might as well get some use out of that functionality. Today it might be MOTA, and someday when I'm ready maybe i can do something else like a modern Castlevania, Megaman, or Double Dragon type clone. The ability/functionality is
Re: [Audyssey] 3D navigation
I love the sound effects and environmnet of the game too, I just find the unprecise nature of the game's navigation features rather gets on my nerves. there's personally nothing more annoying than hereing an object beacon, walking towards it only to walk past, then attempting to find it only to realize it's on the other side of some complicated wall Terrain. I admit though, my senses of both space and navigation are pretty abyssmal, even in real life (I remember all my routes by land marks, not by any sort of relations betwene the places I'm going), which is probably why i personally need such a handy navigation system as the one in the Gma engine and terraformers. Beware the grue! dark. - Original Message - From: Kellie and my lovable Lady J. pebbles...@sbcglobal.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 6:18 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] 3D navigation now I like monkey business. I have beaten the game it it is personally one of my favorite games out there. I love the 3d sound effects and find the difficulty the greatest part about it. I would love to see more games like that. Kellie and my lovable Lady J. Resident Adviser, Guide Dogs for the Blind Oregon campus www.guidedogs.com - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 10:29 AM Subject: [Audyssey] 3D navigation Hi. to me, the difficulty of a 3D game depends entirely upon how good the navigation tools in that particular game are. Monkey business, i have to admit, I'm actually absolutely appauling! at and have never made it through the Jungle stage successfully. I just find the navigation used in that game extremely imprecise, as to pointing out objects, and spend most of my time running into walls uncertain of where I am. the games produced with the Gma engine, and indeed Terraformers however, are a vastly different story. The precise nature of audio to in game objects with turn indicators etc, the use of various viewing tools like the list view, or the 360 and streight ahead scans, the precise nature of object indication sounds and the ability to have objects in range listed by catagory using the monster view, not to mention of course some great sonar for targiting (though the audio precision in the Gma engine is quite useable as it is). All of these contribute to making 3D navigation not only possible, but considderably easy. I'm fairly certain that however complex the environment, Tom will be able to utilize tools to compensate, - actually I personally think the view function in 2D mota makes the game a litle too easy when calculating jumps (though I'm certainly not saying it should be removed or changed, just illustrating Tom's ability to create really good ease of use tools for his games. I'd therefore really encourage people who've felt 3D frustration not to be put off 3D entirely, and especially not by monkey business. Beware the grue! dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] 3D navigation
Hi Dark, I would agree with that assessment. I'll admit I've largely noddled my own engine after the GMA engine for the plane fact that it is familiar to me, it has some very excellent features, and it seamed like a great example of a fully accessible game engine to me. Even though it isn't fully 3d I instantly saw how the same engine could be updated to have a fully 3d environment, and I could build upon what was there to make a fully 3d FPS type title accessible. I happen to own Monkey Business myself and the biggest disappointment is the navigation features in the game. I've done pretty well with the game, think it is fun, but I do get frustrated at times with the game when I have to listen to a sonar sound instead of having it described verbally. So obviously I'd be more in favor of doing things the way GMA did it rather than the way it was done in Monkey Business. Anyway, I personally don't think going from a 2d FPS like shades of Doom to a 3d FPS is going to be that much of a big adjustment. Especially, since my game engine was designed along the lines of the GMA engine. Although, we will see how well it is received when I release my first 3d title. dark wrote: Hi. to me, the difficulty of a 3D game depends entirely upon how good the navigation tools in that particular game are. Monkey business, i have to admit, I'm actually absolutely appauling! at and have never made it through the Jungle stage successfully. I just find the navigation used in that game extremely imprecise, as to pointing out objects, and spend most of my time running into walls uncertain of where I am. the games produced with the Gma engine, and indeed Terraformers however, are a vastly different story. The precise nature of audio to in game objects with turn indicators etc, the use of various viewing tools like the list view, or the 360 and streight ahead scans, the precise nature of object indication sounds and the ability to have objects in range listed by catagory using the monster view, not to mention of course some great sonar for targiting (though the audio precision in the Gma engine is quite useable as it is). All of these contribute to making 3D navigation not only possible, but considderably easy. I'm fairly certain that however complex the environment, Tom will be able to utilize tools to compensate, - actually I personally think the view function in 2D mota makes the game a litle too easy when calculating jumps (though I'm certainly not saying it should be removed or changed, just illustrating Tom's ability to create really good ease of use tools for his games. I'd therefore really encourage people who've felt 3D frustration not to be put off 3D entirely, and especially not by monkey business. Beware the grue! dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] My MOTA Decision
Hi Hayden, Yeah, that is easy enough to do. When i release Mysteries of the Ancients 1.0 as a side-scroller I can install it to a directory like Mysteries of the Ancients 1.0. Later if and when I decided to upgrade it to an FPS I can install that version to a directory like Mysteries of the Ancients 2.0. That way the games can be installed side by side, and played as individual games. Hayden Presley wrote: Hi Thomas, Good for you...I'm glad you finally got that decision made; I'm sure it's been quite frustrating lately. About the FPS thing-I think that would be a good idea. Perhaps you could make it in such a way that people like myself (I admit I have absolutely no since of direction in FPS style games) could keep both versions on one's computer, so that one could try both and decide which they like better. Hayden --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] 3D navigation
Hi Dark, That happens to me from time to time too, but I do have very good spacial orientation skills which is a huge plus in my favor. As a result I generally don't have a lot of problems getting around the levels in Monkey Business. One reason I believe I am so good at Monkey Business, Sarah, or Shades of Doom, is even though I'm totally blind now I still think like a sighted person. I'm able to see the level in my head and put doors, items, staircases, whatever in their proper relationship to each other. I'm able to see an entire level like a 2d map with this or that to the south, this or that to the east, something else is west of here, etc. So from what you and Scott both have said I gather blind people generally don't think like this. They think of an area not as a whole, but only in terms from getting from one landmark to the next. This is completely foreign to me, and would be for anyone who has been sighted for very long. This sounds to me like a very big difference in perception from a sighted person's point of view of the world and a blind person's point of view of the world. If so that would explain why I don't have problems getting around games like Shades of Doom, and why so many others can't make heads or tails out of the mazes. They litterally have no sense of depth, shape, and how things relate to one another in the real world. dark wrote: I love the sound effects and environmnet of the game too, I just find the unprecise nature of the game's navigation features rather gets on my nerves. there's personally nothing more annoying than hereing an object beacon, walking towards it only to walk past, then attempting to find it only to realize it's on the other side of some complicated wall Terrain. I admit though, my senses of both space and navigation are pretty abyssmal, even in real life (I remember all my routes by land marks, not by any sort of relations betwene the places I'm going), which is probably why i personally need such a handy navigation system as the one in the Gma engine and terraformers. Beware the grue! dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] My MOTA Decision
Hey Tom, Cool, I'll be looking forward to playing both versions. Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 8:33 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] My MOTA Decision Hi Hayden, Yeah, that is easy enough to do. When i release Mysteries of the Ancients 1.0 as a side-scroller I can install it to a directory like Mysteries of the Ancients 1.0. Later if and when I decided to upgrade it to an FPS I can install that version to a directory like Mysteries of the Ancients 2.0. That way the games can be installed side by side, and played as individual games. Hayden Presley wrote: Hi Thomas, Good for you...I'm glad you finally got that decision made; I'm sure it's been quite frustrating lately. About the FPS thing-I think that would be a good idea. Perhaps you could make it in such a way that people like myself (I admit I have absolutely no since of direction in FPS style games) could keep both versions on one's computer, so that one could try both and decide which they like better. Hayden --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] My MOTA Decision
Hi Dark, Yeah, I do see your point as well. There are plenty of games out there that aren't very accessible to us currently but could be if we had a decent engine to create them with. I'm working towards that, but it is not yet in a form a non-programmer could use. At this point I still do a fair amount of coding on the games since I haven'thad the time to automate the process with an editor that does everything you need it to. dark wrote: Hi tom. I fully agree with you to an extent and distinctly see your position. I first became interested in audio games myself because games like Shades allowed me to play game genres I normally do not have enough sight to, sinse 3D games are far too complex for me to visually cope with. to be brutally honest, I do certainly stil have the sight to play side scrollers, and in fact probably spend as much time on those sorts of games, either in original versions or more recent internet remakes (particularly of Turrican), as i DO PLAYING AUDIO GAMES. i'M IN FACT BETA TESTING A SIDE SCROLLER WITH EXTENSIVE LOW VISION ACCESS AND SAPI MENUES AT THE MOMENT. i AM HOWEVER CONSCIOUS THAT QUITE OBVIOUSLY THIS OPTION ISN'T THERE FOR MOST PEOPLE WHO PLAY AUDIO GAMES, WHICH IS A GREAT SHAME. It IS ONLY REALLY DUMB LUCK THAT i HAPPEN TO stil have a small amount of working vision and can thus stil play Mega man, metroid, turrican etc, and I'd absolutely love to be able to pass on to everyone who hasn't been as lucky with vision as I have, the hours and hours of fun i've had over the years with side scrollers. in fact, if you create a useable 2D game creation tool with the Genesis engine, when my Phd is done in a couple of years I well might have a look at realizing a personal dream, and creating an audio turrican game, complete with just as much exploration, all the weapons, and the award winningsound track composed by Chris Huelsbek, which is as famous as the game's themselves. I'll certainly be looking forward to the 3D game on a personal level, as this is certainly a game type I can't play, but I'm glad developement of the 2D game will continue to an extent as well. Beware the grue! dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
