Re: [Audyssey] analog Weapons system

2011-05-05 Thread Thomas Ward
Hi Shaun,

Smile. I noticed. That's why it is necessary to pay attention to the
entire thread. Instead of a single post.

At any rate an analog firing system wouldn't effect most guns as it
doesn't matter how hard you squeeze the trigger as the impact from the
bullet is going to be the same. However, a punch, kick, sword swing,
as you know, can very depending on how much force you put into the
attack. I think it is this aspect that Ken and others were aiming for.
Although, I think it would make it a bit complex for some gamers as
I've already introduced several new concepts that are giving VI gamers
problems.

HTH


On 5/4/11, shaun everiss sm.ever...@gmail.com wrote:
 aah.
 I thought that was for everything all guns included.
 I didn't click it was for the punches as I rearly use that.

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Re: [Audyssey] analog Weapons system

2011-05-05 Thread Thomas Ward
Hi Ken,

You are right. It probably wouldn't take a week. Not more than a
couple hours, but the length of time wasn't my point. My point was
that as a developer I have to make decisions weather I want to spend
time working on feature x or something else like adding a new level
etc. I've got an extremely busy schedule and don't have 24/7 to devote
to game programming.  So I have to budget my time wisely and figure
out what is the most productive and important things to do with my
time.

For example, I generally try to set aside about four hours of free
time a day for game programming. Sometimes more sometimes less
depending on availability. Now, if I spend four hours working on an
analog fighting system that's an entire day of work gone. I still may
have bug x to fix or level x to add so I'm at least one day behind my
own schedule. If I get more than one feature request like this it
really adds up and the project is in a nutshell going nowhere because
I'm focussing on things that can be added later, but are wanted now.
That's why I hesitate to say I'll do something like this because I
just want to get it done. I'm tired of working on MOTA.

HTH


On 5/4/11, The Addictor kenwdow...@neo.rr.com wrote:
 Hey Tom,
 Yeah, the analog attack did seem simple, but when you put it that way, just
 skip it.  I won't thinking it would take a whole week to rewrite since I
 haven't seen the code.
 Ken Downey
 The Addictor
 www.TheAddictor.com

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Re: [Audyssey] analog Weapons system

2011-05-04 Thread Thomas Ward
Hi,

Well, in concept it isn't hard to write an analog attack system.
Basically, the way it works is it increases the amount of attack
damage depending on how long the fire key or fire button is held down.
The problem here is not that it is especially difficult to create an
analog combat system, but I didn't write the code with this kind of
combat in mind.  As a result I can't just add a couple of changes and
be done with it. The way the code is written now I would have to
totally yank out the code and rewrite it from scratch. The question
here is would you rather me spend a week adding an analog combat
system or would you rather me complete level 4?

You see, that's where the rubber meets the road. Everyone wants this
or that feature, wants everything under the sun, and then wonder why
1.0 is no sooner of being completed today than it was six months ago.
Rather than completing the core of the game, and going back in adding
features like this after 1.0 is actually released I'm being asked to
go in and write and rewrite the core over and over again to add this
or that feature without adding levels, a product licensing system, and
things that absolutely have to get done before this product goes on
sale. In other words what I'm saying is I've spent a lot of time
working on things that are low priority rather than attending to
things that absolutely do matter. So development has dragged on
indefinately.

Cheers!




On 5/3/11, Alfredo_The_Music_maker birdlover2...@hotmail.com wrote:
 Well you would have to add different variables and counts for that to
 create an analogue I am not sure if one already exists but it sounds
 possible.

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Re: [Audyssey] analog Weapons system

2011-05-04 Thread william lomas
for future conduct a pole then of what features people want and then stick to it
just release the game and add features later, i would

On 4 May 2011, at 12:56, Thomas Ward wrote:

 Hi,
 
 Well, in concept it isn't hard to write an analog attack system.
 Basically, the way it works is it increases the amount of attack
 damage depending on how long the fire key or fire button is held down.
 The problem here is not that it is especially difficult to create an
 analog combat system, but I didn't write the code with this kind of
 combat in mind.  As a result I can't just add a couple of changes and
 be done with it. The way the code is written now I would have to
 totally yank out the code and rewrite it from scratch. The question
 here is would you rather me spend a week adding an analog combat
 system or would you rather me complete level 4?
 
 You see, that's where the rubber meets the road. Everyone wants this
 or that feature, wants everything under the sun, and then wonder why
 1.0 is no sooner of being completed today than it was six months ago.
 Rather than completing the core of the game, and going back in adding
 features like this after 1.0 is actually released I'm being asked to
 go in and write and rewrite the core over and over again to add this
 or that feature without adding levels, a product licensing system, and
 things that absolutely have to get done before this product goes on
 sale. In other words what I'm saying is I've spent a lot of time
 working on things that are low priority rather than attending to
 things that absolutely do matter. So development has dragged on
 indefinately.
 
 Cheers!
 
 
 
 
 On 5/3/11, Alfredo_The_Music_maker birdlover2...@hotmail.com wrote:
 Well you would have to add different variables and counts for that to
 create an analogue I am not sure if one already exists but it sounds
 possible.
 
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Re: [Audyssey] analog Weapons system

2011-05-04 Thread Frost
On Mon, May 02, 2011 at 01:32:29PM -0400, The Addictor wrote:
 The heavier the punch, the bigger the drain on the stamina, but one 
 heavy punch would be more effective than five light ones.

Double or triple the stamina drain for the punch if it misses.  
Missing a punch is the heaviest stamina drain for a boxer.  All that 
muscle use, returning the punch from an unexpected position.

Michael

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Re: [Audyssey] analog Weapons system

2011-05-04 Thread Thomas Ward
Hi William,

Unfortunately, its not quite that simple. Its hard to poll people on
exactly what they want months in advance, because often times they
don't know themselves exactly what they want/expect out of a possible
new game.  If you give them a list of possible features they'll want
them all. either that or people will make suggestions that are
impractical or difficult to add etc. Either way I'm sure that ssix
months or a year down the road someone will think of something new
they didn't think of during the poll/survey and want it added to the
game as soon as possible. I don't think a poll would really be that
effective.

Besides I think I've given the community too much say and freedom
already. You know the saying, give them an inch and they'll take a
mile. That fits hear. I felt bad about not being able to complete
Montezuma's Revenge so opened this game up to suggestions, opinions,
and ideas to make up for that loss. Its not something I would have
done otherwise. Once I start truly creating my own games with no
preorders etc hanging over my head I'm going to be a lot less open to
suggestions etc. If I like a suggestion I'll add it, but if not its my
game so I'll reject it. People whill have to understand my main reason
for writing games is not money, but my own entertainment. In the wise
words of Ricky Nelson, you can't please everyone so you've got to
please yourself.

Cheers!



On 5/4/11, william lomas will.d.lo...@gmail.com wrote:
 for future conduct a pole then of what features people want and then stick
 to it
 just release the game and add features later, i would

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Re: [Audyssey] analog Weapons system

2011-05-04 Thread Frost
You might also want to handicap strength and dexterity as 
staminal levels drop to simulate fatigue, slowing the attacker down and 
decreasing accuracy and reaction time...

Michael

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Re: [Audyssey] analog Weapons system

2011-05-04 Thread shaun everiss
well to be honest I would like the stuff as it is, we already have to 
use a sertain ammount of amo for an enemie as it is.
I am still having issues with the last platform in l2 the long one to 
the point I havn't played the game in a bit.

it was ok before the analog systems.
I know its not that much and quite blind but its what we are used to.
At 11:56 p.m. 4/05/2011, you wrote:

Hi,

Well, in concept it isn't hard to write an analog attack system.
Basically, the way it works is it increases the amount of attack
damage depending on how long the fire key or fire button is held down.
The problem here is not that it is especially difficult to create an
analog combat system, but I didn't write the code with this kind of
combat in mind.  As a result I can't just add a couple of changes and
be done with it. The way the code is written now I would have to
totally yank out the code and rewrite it from scratch. The question
here is would you rather me spend a week adding an analog combat
system or would you rather me complete level 4?

You see, that's where the rubber meets the road. Everyone wants this
or that feature, wants everything under the sun, and then wonder why
1.0 is no sooner of being completed today than it was six months ago.
Rather than completing the core of the game, and going back in adding
features like this after 1.0 is actually released I'm being asked to
go in and write and rewrite the core over and over again to add this
or that feature without adding levels, a product licensing system, and
things that absolutely have to get done before this product goes on
sale. In other words what I'm saying is I've spent a lot of time
working on things that are low priority rather than attending to
things that absolutely do matter. So development has dragged on
indefinately.

Cheers!




On 5/3/11, Alfredo_The_Music_maker birdlover2...@hotmail.com wrote:
 Well you would have to add different variables and counts for that to
 create an analogue I am not sure if one already exists but it sounds
 possible.

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Re: [Audyssey] analog Weapons system

2011-05-04 Thread Thomas Ward
Hi Shaun,

Mind filling me in on what you are talking about? What does using an
analog system for punching, kicking, and other hand to hand combat
moves have to do with ammo?

What we are talking about has absolutely nothing to do with the
firearms unless we make an exception for the MP5 that could fire a
short or long burst depending on how long the fire key is held down.
No, what we are discussing is the idea if you do a quick key press you
might deliver a soft punch and if you hold the key down for say a full
second it will deliver a much harder punch. This is quite common in
mainstream games, and as I said doesn't really effect firing a pistol
or something like that. It would effect something like fists, kicks,
and some melee weapons like daggers, knives, swords, etc that would
allow you to choose to perform a light or hard swing. The concept
sounds ok to me, but as you pointed out some people are having enough
trubles struggling with an analog jump ssytem let alone figuring out
how to properly punch, kick, or deliver a killing blow with a sword
based on how big a swing they use.

On 5/4/11, shaun everiss sm.ever...@gmail.com wrote:
 well to be honest I would like the stuff as it is, we already have to
 use a sertain ammount of amo for an enemie as it is.
 I am still having issues with the last platform in l2 the long one to
 the point I havn't played the game in a bit.
 it was ok before the analog systems.
 I know its not that much and quite blind but its what we are used to.

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Re: [Audyssey] analog Weapons system

2011-05-04 Thread shaun everiss

aah.
I thought that was for everything all guns included.
I didn't click it was for the punches as I rearly use that.
At 10:09 a.m. 5/05/2011, you wrote:

Hi Shaun,

Mind filling me in on what you are talking about? What does using an
analog system for punching, kicking, and other hand to hand combat
moves have to do with ammo?

What we are talking about has absolutely nothing to do with the
firearms unless we make an exception for the MP5 that could fire a
short or long burst depending on how long the fire key is held down.
No, what we are discussing is the idea if you do a quick key press you
might deliver a soft punch and if you hold the key down for say a full
second it will deliver a much harder punch. This is quite common in
mainstream games, and as I said doesn't really effect firing a pistol
or something like that. It would effect something like fists, kicks,
and some melee weapons like daggers, knives, swords, etc that would
allow you to choose to perform a light or hard swing. The concept
sounds ok to me, but as you pointed out some people are having enough
trubles struggling with an analog jump ssytem let alone figuring out
how to properly punch, kick, or deliver a killing blow with a sword
based on how big a swing they use.

On 5/4/11, shaun everiss sm.ever...@gmail.com wrote:
 well to be honest I would like the stuff as it is, we already have to
 use a sertain ammount of amo for an enemie as it is.
 I am still having issues with the last platform in l2 the long one to
 the point I havn't played the game in a bit.
 it was ok before the analog systems.
 I know its not that much and quite blind but its what we are used to.

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Re: [Audyssey] analog Weapons system

2011-05-04 Thread The Addictor

Hey Tom,
Yeah, the analog attack did seem simple, but when you put it that way, just 
skip it.  I won't thinking it would take a whole week to rewrite since I 
haven't seen the code.

Ken Downey
The Addictor
www.TheAddictor.com

- Original Message - 
From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com
To: birdlover2...@hotmail.com; Gamers Discussion list 
gamers@audyssey.org

Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2011 7:56 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] analog Weapons system



Hi,

Well, in concept it isn't hard to write an analog attack system.
Basically, the way it works is it increases the amount of attack
damage depending on how long the fire key or fire button is held down.
The problem here is not that it is especially difficult to create an
analog combat system, but I didn't write the code with this kind of
combat in mind.  As a result I can't just add a couple of changes and
be done with it. The way the code is written now I would have to
totally yank out the code and rewrite it from scratch. The question
here is would you rather me spend a week adding an analog combat
system or would you rather me complete level 4?

You see, that's where the rubber meets the road. Everyone wants this
or that feature, wants everything under the sun, and then wonder why
1.0 is no sooner of being completed today than it was six months ago.
Rather than completing the core of the game, and going back in adding
features like this after 1.0 is actually released I'm being asked to
go in and write and rewrite the core over and over again to add this
or that feature without adding levels, a product licensing system, and
things that absolutely have to get done before this product goes on
sale. In other words what I'm saying is I've spent a lot of time
working on things that are low priority rather than attending to
things that absolutely do matter. So development has dragged on
indefinately.

Cheers!




On 5/3/11, Alfredo_The_Music_maker birdlover2...@hotmail.com wrote:

Well you would have to add different variables and counts for that to
create an analogue I am not sure if one already exists but it sounds
possible.

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Re: [Audyssey] analog Weapons system

2011-05-03 Thread dark
My only issue is ken, personally staminer in that way would just be an 
irritating game mechanic to me, sinse what I'd do would be fight with maxed 
attacks, then just stand around until i was recovered.


so, all it would add to the game would be more standing around essentially.

while chargeable or otherwise limted weapons have existed the usual method 
is slightly different.


for instance in many games (mega man, metroid, gunstar heroes, zelda etc), 
tapping an attack button produces a weak attack, while holding for a length 
of time then releasing can build up to a stronger attack up to a certain 
level, the catch being that while you can constantly throw weak attacks, 
strong attacks have charge time so you'll need to dodge around for a bit 
before launching one.


some beat em ups employ this principle too.

the basic idea is that you need free time from attacking to produce a 
stronger attack, meaning that attack must be accurate, or meaning you must 
trade several small attacks for one powerful one.


this is why so many of the mega man zero bosses are particularly hard, sinse 
zero fights with a z sabre, a short range sword, and must dodge around with 
it charged and maneuver carefully around the boss's attacks to get close 
enough to give a powerful hit.


I'm not sure about this in mota, sinse I can't really see how you would 
retain physical charge on a sword (ie, stand and prepare for a big swing), 
and climb a rope, though it could bee interesting if the mechanics could be 
worked out.


Alternatively, using the tap vs press idea, short attacks could be quicker 
but weaker, while strong attacks be slower but stronger, so when fighting a 
skeleton, many short attacks might despatch it quickly, while a strong enemy 
like a centaur might need one heavy blow sinse it'd just shrug off quick 
hits and attack you back.


some games have had a method like this one too, for instance several 
abilities in kirby superstar, and some of the weapons in gunstar heroes and 
Omega boy.


for limiting by staminer or some other measure though which recovered slowly 
over time, i'm less certain really for the reason i mentioned.


beware the Grue!

Dark. 



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Re: [Audyssey] analog Weapons system

2011-05-03 Thread Thomas Ward
Hi Ken,

I don't really know. I'm not really sure how something like that could
be implented into the game. The combat system is rather generic in
that you simply name the type of weapon, give it a hit point value,
mmin and max range, and let it go in the engine. It was never designed
with the concept of light vs heavy attacks etc in mind. I'm not sure
how I would go about changing this behavior even if I wanted to.

Cheers!


On 5/2/11, The Addictor kenwdow...@neo.rr.com wrote:
 Hey Tom,
 any chance you'll consider adding an analog weapons system to the game?  I
 had several ideas on this.
 First, I personally tend to use my fists more than any other weapon--they
 get the job done just as well for me.  I was thinking that you could add a
 stamina counter that goes down the harder you fight, the longer you run,
 etc.  So to deliver a light punch, you would hold space down for a fraction
 of a second, and to give a heavy punch hold it down longer.  The heavier the
 punch, the bigger the drain on the stamina, but one heavy punch would be
 more effective than five light ones.  If you include dexterity later on, it
 could take out dex points if Angela's not wearing gauntlets or gloves.  This
 would require judgment again, as a skeleton might only need two light
 punches, where it might take a heavy punch to knock out a minotaur.
 the same could be true if she swings a sword.  Also, if she has any type of
 powered weapon, the longer the button is held down the bigger the charge.
 What are your thoughts on this?
 Ken Downey
 The Addictor
 www.TheAddictor.com
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Re: [Audyssey] analog Weapons system

2011-05-03 Thread Shiny protector

I have to agree with Ken. This would be cool.
- Original Message - 
From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com
To: The Addictor kenwdow...@neo.rr.com; Gamers Discussion list 
gamers@audyssey.org

Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 6:53 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] analog Weapons system



Hi Ken,

I don't really know. I'm not really sure how something like that could
be implented into the game. The combat system is rather generic in
that you simply name the type of weapon, give it a hit point value,
mmin and max range, and let it go in the engine. It was never designed
with the concept of light vs heavy attacks etc in mind. I'm not sure
how I would go about changing this behavior even if I wanted to.

Cheers!


On 5/2/11, The Addictor kenwdow...@neo.rr.com wrote:

Hey Tom,
any chance you'll consider adding an analog weapons system to the game? 
I

had several ideas on this.
First, I personally tend to use my fists more than any other weapon--they
get the job done just as well for me.  I was thinking that you could add 
a

stamina counter that goes down the harder you fight, the longer you run,
etc.  So to deliver a light punch, you would hold space down for a 
fraction
of a second, and to give a heavy punch hold it down longer.  The heavier 
the

punch, the bigger the drain on the stamina, but one heavy punch would be
more effective than five light ones.  If you include dexterity later on, 
it
could take out dex points if Angela's not wearing gauntlets or gloves. 
This

would require judgment again, as a skeleton might only need two light
punches, where it might take a heavy punch to knock out a minotaur.
the same could be true if she swings a sword.  Also, if she has any type 
of

powered weapon, the longer the button is held down the bigger the charge.
What are your thoughts on this?
Ken Downey
The Addictor
www.TheAddictor.com
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Re: [Audyssey] analog Weapons system

2011-05-03 Thread Thomas Ward
Hi Muhammed and Ken,

Well, all I cansay right now is I'll consider it. I've got my hands
rather full right now working on the Linux cross-platform G3D Engine
as I want to release both Windows and Linux versions of beta 19
simaltaniously if I can. It will make it easier for me if I manage to
get the cross-platform engine updated now, and then I can work on both
of the versions of the game at the same time. Probably even using the
same engine if things work out as planned.

On 5/3/11, Shiny protector muhamme...@googlemail.com wrote:
 I have to agree with Ken. This would be cool.

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Re: [Audyssey] analog Weapons system

2011-05-03 Thread Hayden Presley
Hi,
Myself I say let the man get this thing out the door...he has to be ready to
work on something else.

Best Regards,
Hayden


-Original Message-
From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On
Behalf Of Thomas Ward
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 4:08 PM
To: Gamers Discussion list
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] analog Weapons system

Hi Muhammed and Ken,

Well, all I cansay right now is I'll consider it. I've got my hands
rather full right now working on the Linux cross-platform G3D Engine
as I want to release both Windows and Linux versions of beta 19
simaltaniously if I can. It will make it easier for me if I manage to
get the cross-platform engine updated now, and then I can work on both
of the versions of the game at the same time. Probably even using the
same engine if things work out as planned.

On 5/3/11, Shiny protector muhamme...@googlemail.com wrote:
 I have to agree with Ken. This would be cool.

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Re: [Audyssey] analog Weapons system

2011-05-03 Thread Thomas Ward
Hi Hayden,

Amen to that. I hear you there.

On 5/3/11, Hayden Presley hdpres...@hotmail.com wrote:
 Hi,
 Myself I say let the man get this thing out the door...he has to be ready to
 work on something else.

 Best Regards,
 Hayden

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Re: [Audyssey] analog Weapons system

2011-05-03 Thread Alfredo_The_Music_maker
Well you would have to add different variables and counts for that to 
create an analogue I am not sure if one already exists but it sounds 
possible.


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