Re: Looking for a Champion
Hi Tom The proposal looks pretty interesting on the technical level indeed, but when it comes to ASF it is more about building (or trying to guarantee) of community around a project so it can continue and evolve and does not die, in terms of the code being maintained and used Yes Incubator is about being an intermediate step for a project to come into the ASF, but it is more about helping an already existing community, which IMHO and from what I have seen from projects in the Incubator that initial community should be big enough (I would say at least three real active committers) to start proposing the project into the Incubator I have mentored a project before which was more than appealing technical wise and they already had big enough community (three committers) but by the time after just coming into the Incubator their availability severely changed and the project could not make it I would suggest to wait a bit and build more awareness about the project and get more enough people around and then continue with the proposal to ASF Incubator, if you would like and allow me I can help in that On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 4:01 AM, Tom Everett wrote: > Thank-you. I am looking for both champion and mentors, for this project: > > > http://blog.khubla.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/pragmatach-incubator-proposal.pdf > > I hope that a pdf document is acceptable. The web site is here > > http://www.pragmatach.com > > If you're interested, there is a web-based presentation here: > > http://pragmatach.com/slideshow/index.html > > If there is any more information I can supply that might be of interest > please let me know. > > > > > > On Mon, May 6, 2013 at 7:29 PM, Suresh Marru wrote: > > > Yes this is the right list for soliciting champion and mentors. > > > > Suresh > > > > On May 6, 2013, at 7:04 PM, Tom Everett wrote: > > > > > Good afternoon. > > > > > > I have a project which I am hoping to submit to the incubator, and I > > > understand from the documentation that it is recommended to identify a > > > champion prior to the incubator application. Is this mailing list an > > > appropriate place to solicit for such a person? > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > A better world shall emerge based on faith and understanding - Douglas > > > MacArthur > > > > > > - > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > > > > > > -- > A better world shall emerge based on faith and understanding - Douglas > MacArthur > -- Thanks - Mohammad Nour "Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving" - Albert Einstein
[danie...@apache.org: svn commit: r1479414 - /infrastructure/site/trunk/content/dev/infra-contact.mdtext]
New podlings without a website - FYI process change.
See https://www.apache.org/dev/infra-contact#requesting-podling
Daniel
- Forwarded message from danie...@apache.org -
> Reply-To: site-...@apache.org
> Subject: svn commit: r1479414 -
> /infrastructure/site/trunk/content/dev/infra-contact.mdtext
> Date: Sun, 05 May 2013 22:38:43 -
> To: site-...@apache.org
> From: danie...@apache.org
>
> Author: danielsh
> Date: Sun May 5 22:38:43 2013
> New Revision: 1479414
>
> URL: http://svn.apache.org/r1479414
> Log:
> webreq
>
> Modified:
> infrastructure/site/trunk/content/dev/infra-contact.mdtext
>
> Modified: infrastructure/site/trunk/content/dev/infra-contact.mdtext
> URL:
> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/infrastructure/site/trunk/content/dev/infra-contact.mdtext?rev=1479414&r1=1479413&r2=1479414&view=diff
> ==
> --- infrastructure/site/trunk/content/dev/infra-contact.mdtext (original)
> +++ infrastructure/site/trunk/content/dev/infra-contact.mdtext Sun May 5
> 22:38:43 2013
> @@ -104,11 +104,7 @@ mail will get delivered to the mailing l
>
> 1. The podling community sets up a [project site](project-site#intro).
>
> -1. An ASF Member or PMC chair files a *website creation request*.
> -In the future this will use a webapp[][3], but for now
> -file a jira. See the "CMS-based sites" or "svnpubsub-based sites" entry in
> -["Providing needed information"](#what-we-need-to-know)
> -first.
> +1. An ASF Member or PMC chair files a [*website creation request*][3].
>
> If additional services need to be created (beyond mailing lists, svn tree,
> and
> web site), file one "Create Foo Podling" parent ticket in JIRA and one
> sub-task
> @@ -203,8 +199,8 @@ involving infra at all.
> | Create a **podling** | [See above](#requesting-podling) | |
> | Load **Subversion history** | URL and checksum (or PGP signature) of a
> dumpfile; proof of [IP rights](/legal/resolved#category-a) | Produce with
> `svnadmin dump --incremental --deltas` or `svnrdump`. The paths within the
> dumpfile should be relative to the project root (e.g., to
> `/repos/asf/incubator/MyPodling`). |
> | Load **Git history** | URL and of a repository or an export stream; proof
> of [IP rights](/legal/resolved#category-a) | If linking to a file, provide
> PGP signature or checksum. If to a remote repository, you will be asked to
> review and sign off on the import ("Yes, that is the repository and history
> we asked to import and have IP rights for") before it will be writable. |
> -| Create a **CMS-based site** | URL of the [layout-compliant](cms#layout)
> site source, and what build system to use | Build system types include:
> default (path.pm), shell (build\_cms.sh), maven/ant/forrest. |
> -| Create an **svnpubsub-based site** | SVN URL of the compiled site
> (directory containing HTML files) | Git is not supported by
> [svnpubsub](project-site#intro) |
> +| Create a **CMS-based site** | URL of the [layout-compliant](cms#layout)
> site source, and what build system to use | Build system types include:
> default (path.pm), shell (build\_cms.sh), maven/ant/forrest. Use the [webreq
> app][3]. |
> +| Create an **svnpubsub-based site** | SVN URL of the compiled site
> (directory containing HTML files) | Git is not supported by
> [svnpubsub](project-site#intro). Use the [webreq app][3]. |
> | Create an **svnpubsub-based Dist area** | Create or ask to create dist
> release dir. Specify release area only or release and dev areas. Mailing list
> for commits to go, if omitted the default is the project commits list. | Any
> existing release dir will be blown away (archive releases remain). A release
> or KEYS/NOTICE file will be asked for upon creation. |
> | Create a **project blog** | project name, brief one-line description of
> the project, and Apache usernames (and fullnames) of 1+ editors | |
> | Create a **blog account** (for an editor) | The Apache username (and
> fullnames) of the editor | Non-PMC members need to demonstrate PMC consensus
> too (link to a lazy consensus thread suffices). |
>
>
- End forwarded message -
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Incubator PMC/Board report for May 2013 ([ppmc])
Dear podling, This email was sent by an automated system on behalf of the Apache Incubator PMC. It is an initial reminder to give you plenty of time to prepare your quarterly board report. The board meeting is scheduled for Wed, 15 May 2013, 10:30:00:00 PST. The report for your podling will form a part of the Incubator PMC report. The Incubator PMC requires your report to be submitted 2 weeks before the board meeting, to allow sufficient time for review and submission (Wed, May 1st). Please submit your report with sufficient time to allow the incubator PMC, and subsequently board members to review and digest. Again, the very latest you should submit your report is 2 weeks prior to the board meeting. Thanks, The Apache Incubator PMC Submitting your Report -- Your report should contain the following: * Your project name * A brief description of your project, which assumes no knowledge of the project or necessarily of its field * A list of the three most important issues to address in the move towards graduation. * Any issues that the Incubator PMC or ASF Board might wish/need to be aware of * How has the community developed since the last report * How has the project developed since the last report. This should be appended to the Incubator Wiki page at: http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/May2013 Note: This manually populated. You may need to wait a little before this page is created from a template. Mentors --- Mentors should review reports for their project(s) and sign them off on the Incubator wiki page. Signing off reports shows that you are following the project - projects that are not signed may raise alarms for the Incubator PMC. Incubator PMC - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: Time for April 2013 Incubator PMC report
Thanks Chris! On Mon, May 6, 2013 at 10:16 AM, Mattmann, Chris A (398J) < chris.a.mattm...@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote: > Hey Ben, > > Since I missed this last month, I've added a report for Mesos > based on the below to the May 2013 report, here: > > http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/May2013 > > I went ahead and updated your original template report and signed > off on it. > > Thanks for pushing this. IPMC, note this is an out of band report > from Mesos to let folks know what's going on with the project. > > Cheers, > Chris > > ++ > Chris Mattmann, Ph.D. > Senior Computer Scientist > NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA > Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246 > Email: chris.a.mattm...@nasa.gov > WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/ > ++ > Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department > University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA > ++ > > > > > > > -Original Message- > From: , jpluser > Reply-To: "mesos-...@incubator.apache.org" > > Date: Thursday, April 18, 2013 10:12 AM > To: "mesos-...@incubator.apache.org" > Cc: "general@incubator.apache.org" > Subject: Re: Time for April 2013 Incubator PMC report > > >Great job, Ben. > > > >We can go ahead and include this in next month's Incubator report > >since I was underwater the past week and didn't catch this until now. > > > >CC'ing general@incubator so they know you did this on time and > >Mesos PPMC handled its business here. > > > >Cheers, > >Chris > > > >++ > >Chris Mattmann, Ph.D. > >Senior Computer Scientist > >NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA > >Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246 > >Email: chris.a.mattm...@nasa.gov > >WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/ > >++ > >Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department > >University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA > >++ > > > > > > > > > > > > > >-Original Message- > >From: Benjamin Mahler > >Reply-To: "mesos-...@incubator.apache.org" > > > >Date: Tuesday, April 9, 2013 8:17 PM > >To: "mesos-...@incubator.apache.org" > >Subject: Re: Time for April 2013 Incubator PMC report > > > >>Hey Chris, > >> > >>I wrote up a draft report: > >> > >> > >>Mesos > >> > >>Mesos is a cluster manager that provides resource sharing and > >>isolation across cluster applications. > >> > >>Mesos has been incubating since 2010-12-23. > >> > >>Three most important issues to address in the move towards graduation: > >> > >> 1. Improved documentation and support. > >> 2. Grow community (more developers contributing as the end goal). > >> 3. Mentor and add additional commit > >> > >>Any issues that the Incubator PMC (IPMC) or ASF Board wish/need to be > >>aware of? > >> > >>We would like to move to git, and have been waiting for > >>https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-6065, but we've seen no > >>activity on the ticket as of yet. We've also had a hard time getting > >>votes for our releases, as before. > >> > >>How has the community developed since the last report? > >> > >>We've seen an increase in activity on the mailing list. Airbnb has > >>been increasingly using Mesos, not only for Chronos, but also for > >>Hadoop (using our newly written Hadoop framework). There has also been > >>a production engineering meetup where Mesos was presented: > >> > http://www.meetup.com/SF-Bay-Area-Large-Scale-Production-Engineering/even > >>t > >>s/97563092/ > >> > >>How has the project developed since the last report? > >> > >>On top of the usual bug fixes and reliability improvements, we've > >>implemented resource monitoring to gain visibility into the resource > >>consumption of executors running in Mesos. We are also much closer to > >>shipping a feature that allows the slave to upgrade gracefully > >>(without killing all tasks underneath it). > >> > >> > >> > >>On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 1:06 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (388J) < > >>chris.a.mattm...@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote: > >> > >>> Hi Mesos Peeps, > >>> > >>> Time for an IPMC report for April 2013: > >>> > >>> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/April2013 > >>> > >>> > >>> Anyone want to take a crack at it before I review > >>> and/or update and sign off? > >>> > >>> Cheers, > >>> Chris > >>> > >>> ++ > >>> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D. > >>> Senior Computer Scientist > >>> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA > >>> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246 > >>> Email: chris.a.mattm...@nasa.gov > >>> WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/ > >>> ++ > >>> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Co
Re: Would like to be added to Climate incubator group
Hello! I just wanted to check up on this. Is there anything I need to do to help get this resolved? Thanks much! On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 8:41 PM, Michael Joyce wrote: > Hello! > > I'm part of the Open Climate Workbench podling and need to be added to the > incubator group for commits. Can you help me out? > > Thanks much >
[VOTE] Release Curator 2.0.0-incubating
Hello, This is a vote for the release of Apache Curator 2.0.0-incubating This has been voted on via the d...@curator.incubator.apache.org mailing list (vote thread [1], and results [2]), and now requires a vote on general@incubator.apache.org. 3 IPMC votes have already been cast on the vote held on dev@curator: +1 (PPMC / binding) * Patrick Hunt * Luciano Resende * Enis Söztutar There were 0 -1 or +0 votes cast. *** Please download, test and vote by [N working days after sending]. Note that we are voting upon the source (tag), binaries are provided for convenience. Link to release notes: * no release notes as this is the initial release * Staging repo: https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/incubator/curator/2.0.0-incubating/ Binary artifacts: https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachecurator-160/ The tag to be voted upon: https://git-wip-us.apache.org/repos/asf?p=incubator-curator.git;a=tag;h=9bd468d1eafeae5f1da1a64a93e4bb459c133a15 Curator's KEYS file containing PGP keys we use to sign the release: http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/curator/KEYS [ ] +1 approve [ ] +0 no opinion [ ] -1 disapprove (and reason why) Thanks! [1] http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-curator-dev/201305.mbox/%3C0780417E-F669-43A7-9907-786798C30FF6%40netflix.com%3E [2] http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-curator-dev/201305.mbox/%3c780fec29-678b-4944-9224-298c042cb...@jordanzimmerman.com%3E
Re: Looking for a Champion
The ASF is home to a number of web frameworks (e.g. Struts, Wicket, Tapestry, Sling, MyFaces, Click, ...). Have you thought of contributing to one of those instead of creating a completely new framework? What was the outcome? Are there cross-pollination possibilities? If your goals match with the goals of one of these projects, it could be easy to find a champion for you from one of these communities. Uli On 07.05.2013 04:01, Tom Everett wrote: > Thank-you. I am looking for both champion and mentors, for this project: > > http://blog.khubla.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/pragmatach-incubator-proposal.pdf > > I hope that a pdf document is acceptable. The web site is here > > http://www.pragmatach.com > > If you're interested, there is a web-based presentation here: > > http://pragmatach.com/slideshow/index.html > > If there is any more information I can supply that might be of interest > please let me know. > > > > > > On Mon, May 6, 2013 at 7:29 PM, Suresh Marru wrote: > >> Yes this is the right list for soliciting champion and mentors. >> >> Suresh >> >> On May 6, 2013, at 7:04 PM, Tom Everett wrote: >> >>> Good afternoon. >>> >>> I have a project which I am hoping to submit to the incubator, and I >>> understand from the documentation that it is recommended to identify a >>> champion prior to the incubator application. Is this mailing list an >>> appropriate place to solicit for such a person? >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> A better world shall emerge based on faith and understanding - Douglas >>> MacArthur >> >> >> - >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org >> >> > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [META DISCUSS] talking about the overall state of this PMC
On Mon, May 6, 2013 at 2:56 AM, Benson Margulies wrote: > > Discussions on Ross' and Chris' proposals ground to a halt. > > In my view, there are real issues that drove those discussions, even if > those discussions drove some of us to distraction. > > A bit before the wiki crashed, I wrote: > > http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/BensonApril2013ProcessProposals > All the rest of this aside, in your wiki page at 2.2 it says - "When a podling reports, it is absolutely required to provide a list of releases." - could something like the following change to the report template generation script be enough for that (do you need a list or is just the last release enough?): Index: clutch2report.py === --- clutch2report.py(revision 1479828) +++ clutch2report.py(working copy) @@ -80,6 +80,8 @@ How has the project developed since the last report? +Date of last release: + Please check this [ ] when you have filled in the report for $name. Signed-off-by: ...ant - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: Looking for a Champion
First I have to say that the project looks really interesting, even the proposal seems to me good (little side note: I think you should mention the use of cryptography [1]). I agree with what Mohammad pointed out: "Community over Code". I don't know if there are some match points between Struts and your project (S2 is more an action based FW), but we can talk about it. If you want, count on me as initial committer. [1] https://github.com/teverett/Pragmatach/tree/master/pragmatach-framework/src/main/java/com/khubla/pragmatach/framework/crypto Twitter :http://www.twitter.com/m_cucchiara G+ :https://plus.google.com/107903711540963855921 Linkedin:http://www.linkedin.com/in/mauriziocucchiara VisualizeMe: http://vizualize.me/maurizio.cucchiara?r=maurizio.cucchiara Maurizio Cucchiara On 7 May 2013 11:14, Ulrich Stärk wrote: > > The ASF is home to a number of web frameworks (e.g. Struts, Wicket, Tapestry, > Sling, MyFaces, Click, > ...). Have you thought of contributing to one of those instead of creating a > completely new > framework? What was the outcome? Are there cross-pollination possibilities? > If your goals match with > the goals of one of these projects, it could be easy to find a champion for > you from one of these > communities. > > Uli > > On 07.05.2013 04:01, Tom Everett wrote: > > Thank-you. I am looking for both champion and mentors, for this project: > > > > http://blog.khubla.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/pragmatach-incubator-proposal.pdf > > > > I hope that a pdf document is acceptable. The web site is here > > > > http://www.pragmatach.com > > > > If you're interested, there is a web-based presentation here: > > > > http://pragmatach.com/slideshow/index.html > > > > If there is any more information I can supply that might be of interest > > please let me know. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, May 6, 2013 at 7:29 PM, Suresh Marru wrote: > > > >> Yes this is the right list for soliciting champion and mentors. > >> > >> Suresh > >> > >> On May 6, 2013, at 7:04 PM, Tom Everett wrote: > >> > >>> Good afternoon. > >>> > >>> I have a project which I am hoping to submit to the incubator, and I > >>> understand from the documentation that it is recommended to identify a > >>> champion prior to the incubator application. Is this mailing list an > >>> appropriate place to solicit for such a person? > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> A better world shall emerge based on faith and understanding - Douglas > >>> MacArthur > >> > >> > >> - > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > >> > >> > > > > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [META DISCUSS] talking about the overall state of this PMC
On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 5:45 AM, Alan Cabrera wrote: > ...Let's get rid of champions and shepherds and hold the mentors to their > responsibilities The problem with mentors is when you have 5 of them it's unclear who's in charge exactly. The goal of the champion's role clarification was to have a single point of contact and responsibility for contacts with the incubator PMC - similar to a project's PMC chair role. So basically you have: A champion, who's a mentor, but also the primary point of contact with the IPMC, makes sure reports are done in time and watches the podling for lack of mentoring if that happens. Mentors, who are primarily tasked with coaching the podling. -Bertrand - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [META DISCUSS] talking about the overall state of this PMC
There was a consensus to add the Champion role, and we haven't even tried it seriously, and now you propose to eliminate it. That doesn't seem reasonable to me. I'd rather try to make it useful and then evaluate it. In other words, +1 to Bertrand. 'Holding mentors to their responsibility' as a completely generic concept is an idea that constantly fails to reach a consensus, due to the 'volunteer dilemma'. For others in this thread, I completely disagree that a monthly one line edit to the XML file or a one line email is an unreasonable burden. Any mentor, let alone champion, for whom that is an unreasonable burden should not have signed up in the first place. I am limiting myself to one message on this thread per day, at most, just so you all know. On Mon, May 6, 2013 at 11:45 PM, Alan Cabrera wrote: > On May 5, 2013, at 6:56 PM, Benson Margulies wrote: > >> Discussions on Ross' and Chris' proposals ground to a halt. >> >> In my view, there are real issues that drove those discussions, even if >> those discussions drove some of us to distraction. >> >> A bit before the wiki crashed, I wrote: >> >> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/BensonApril2013ProcessProposals >> >> The TL;DR version of this is: >> >> 1: let's take Champions seriously as a role >> 2: let's ask for a minimal heartbeat from every podling every month > > What we're virtually left with is one mentor, now called a champion. > Removing hard responsibilities from the mentor effectively nullifies the > mentor role. > > Let's get rid of champions and shepherds and hold the mentors to their > responsibilities. > > > Regards, > Alan > > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [META DISCUSS] talking about the overall state of this PMC
On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 11:20 AM, Benson Margulies wrote: > There was a consensus to add the Champion role, and we haven't even > tried it seriously, and now you propose to eliminate it. That doesn't > seem reasonable to me. I'd rather try to make it useful and then > evaluate it. In other words, +1 to Bertrand. > > 'Holding mentors to their responsibility' as a completely generic > concept is an idea that constantly fails to reach a consensus, due to > the 'volunteer dilemma'. > > For others in this thread, I completely disagree that a monthly one > line edit to the XML file or a one line email is an unreasonable > burden. Fair enough, disagree. > Any mentor, let alone champion, for whom that is an > unreasonable burden should not have signed up in the first place. That's unfair. I signed up to *mentor* not send silly heartbeat checks that exist because other podling's mentors failed to live up to their responsibility. This feels beyond the minimal governance necessary and a solution to the wrong problem. It'd helpful to say precisely what problem that this heartbeat is intended to solve, in that way, we are afforded the opportunity to propose an alternative solution - for example, by focusing on highlighting the problem mentors/podlings. Thanks, --tim - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [META DISCUSS] talking about the overall state of this PMC
The problem that most podlings I've been involved with, whilst having six mentors, have ended up with just me playing any part. On paper, it looks like these podlings are in a great place, in fact, they only have a single active mentor. What is wanted is to know who is, and who isn't active. To spot problems. Benson's idea is to say that a simple 'I'm here' message would really help the incubator PMC. I'd agree with that. The question is, who's job is it to track all this. Should the PMC go look and do all the leg-work, or should projects and their mentors take some of the load? Really, the more responsibility is centralised, the less the incubator will scale. Looking for ways that mentors can show their involvement is a good thing. I guess that could be automated (grep through mail archives for mentor email addresses each month), but until that happens, I'd say it would be a good thing for mentors/champions to take some of that load off the incubator PMC. It need merely be a reply to a Marvin 'are you there' email. Upayavira On Tue, May 7, 2013, at 04:37 PM, Tim Williams wrote: > On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 11:20 AM, Benson Margulies > wrote: > > There was a consensus to add the Champion role, and we haven't even > > tried it seriously, and now you propose to eliminate it. That doesn't > > seem reasonable to me. I'd rather try to make it useful and then > > evaluate it. In other words, +1 to Bertrand. > > > > 'Holding mentors to their responsibility' as a completely generic > > concept is an idea that constantly fails to reach a consensus, due to > > the 'volunteer dilemma'. > > > > For others in this thread, I completely disagree that a monthly one > > line edit to the XML file or a one line email is an unreasonable > > burden. > > Fair enough, disagree. > > > Any mentor, let alone champion, for whom that is an > > unreasonable burden should not have signed up in the first place. > > That's unfair. I signed up to *mentor* not send silly heartbeat > checks that exist because other podling's mentors failed to live up to > their responsibility. This feels beyond the minimal governance > necessary and a solution to the wrong problem. It'd helpful to say > precisely what problem that this heartbeat is intended to solve, in > that way, we are afforded the opportunity to propose an alternative > solution - for example, by focusing on highlighting the problem > mentors/podlings. > > Thanks, > --tim > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [META DISCUSS] talking about the overall state of this PMC
On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 5:37 PM, Tim Williams wrote: > ...I signed up to *mentor* not send silly heartbeat > checks that exist because other podling's mentors failed to live up to > their responsibility... 0 0 1 * * echo "Hi, the FOO podling is alive." | mail -s "Hi folks" general@incubator.apache.org -Bertrand (ducks and runs) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: Would like to be added to Climate incubator group
On Mon, May 06, 2013 at 11:15:06AM -0700, Michael Joyce wrote: > Hello! > > I just wanted to check up on this. Is there anything I need to do to help > get this resolved? > > Thanks much! Have you asked on your dev@ list? > > > On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 8:41 PM, Michael Joyce wrote: > > > Hello! > > > > I'm part of the Open Climate Workbench podling and need to be added to the > > incubator group for commits. Can you help me out? > > > > Thanks much > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: Would like to be added to Climate incubator group
On May 6, 2013, at 2:15 PM, Michael Joyce wrote: > Hello! > > I just wanted to check up on this. Is there anything I need to do to help > get this resolved? > > Thanks much! > > > On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 8:41 PM, Michael Joyce wrote: > >> Hello! >> >> I'm part of the Open Climate Workbench podling and need to be added to the >> incubator group for commits. Can you help me out? Hi Michael, If I am understanding your request correctly, you were listed as the Initial Committers when the Climate Proposal [1] was approved and you are wanting to have the right commit bits right? I just added you to incubator unix group, I see you are already added to climate group in asf-authorization-template. Try a commit to climate svn. Cheers, Suresh [1] - http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/ClimateProposal >> >> Thanks much >> - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [META DISCUSS] talking about the overall state of this PMC
On 7 May 2013 16:55, Upayavira wrote: > I guess that could be automated (grep through mail > archives for mentor email addresses each month), but until that > happens[...] > This could be done in a one-off fashion with a simple sh pipe. I'm not fond of to addressing social problems with technological solutions, but a quick automated report might be a useful pro-active tool for the IPMC. Mailing list activity is a fairly common metric across the foundation. (Though, I expect with a healthy project, visible mentor activity might be very light.) -- NS
[jira] [Commented] (PODLINGNAMESEARCH-28) Establish whether "Apache Curator" is a suitable name
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/PODLINGNAMESEARCH-28?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13651174#comment-13651174 ] Jordan Zimmerman commented on PODLINGNAMESEARCH-28: --- Can this be considered cleared at this point> > Establish whether "Apache Curator" is a suitable name > - > > Key: PODLINGNAMESEARCH-28 > URL: > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/PODLINGNAMESEARCH-28 > Project: Podling Suitable Names Search > Issue Type: Suitable Name Search >Reporter: Jordan Zimmerman > > The name Curator is a standard English word meaning "a keeper or custodian of > a museum or other collection". It's used for this project as "Curator" is a > ZooKeeper Keeper. > Apache Curator is an Apache ZooKeeper client wrapper and rich ZooKeeper > framework. For reference, Apache ZooKeeper is a centralized service for > maintaining configuration information, naming, providing distributed > synchronization, and providing group services. -- This message is automatically generated by JIRA. If you think it was sent incorrectly, please contact your JIRA administrators For more information on JIRA, see: http://www.atlassian.com/software/jira - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: Looking for a Champion
Hi Mohammad I'd be quite happy for your assistance. I haven't made a significant effort to build a community around Pragmatach, mainly because I'm not familiar with how to announce it, where, and to whom. Is there any assistance you can offer with that? On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 2:25 AM, Mohammad Nour El-Din < nour.moham...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Tom > >The proposal looks pretty interesting on the technical level indeed, but > when it comes to ASF it is more about building (or trying to guarantee) of > community around a project so it can continue and evolve and does not die, > in terms of the code being maintained and used > > Yes Incubator is about being an intermediate step for a project to come > into the ASF, but it is more about helping an already existing community, > which IMHO and from what I have seen from projects in the Incubator that > initial community should be big enough (I would say at least three real > active committers) to start proposing the project into the Incubator > > I have mentored a project before which was more than appealing technical > wise and they already had big enough community (three committers) but by > the time after just coming into the Incubator their > availability severely changed and the project could not make it > > I would suggest to wait a bit and build more awareness about the project > and get more enough people around and then continue with the proposal to > ASF Incubator, if you would like and allow me I can help in that > > > On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 4:01 AM, Tom Everett wrote: > > > Thank-you. I am looking for both champion and mentors, for this project: > > > > > > > http://blog.khubla.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/pragmatach-incubator-proposal.pdf > > > > I hope that a pdf document is acceptable. The web site is here > > > > http://www.pragmatach.com > > > > If you're interested, there is a web-based presentation here: > > > > http://pragmatach.com/slideshow/index.html > > > > If there is any more information I can supply that might be of interest > > please let me know. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, May 6, 2013 at 7:29 PM, Suresh Marru wrote: > > > > > Yes this is the right list for soliciting champion and mentors. > > > > > > Suresh > > > > > > On May 6, 2013, at 7:04 PM, Tom Everett wrote: > > > > > > > Good afternoon. > > > > > > > > I have a project which I am hoping to submit to the incubator, and I > > > > understand from the documentation that it is recommended to identify > a > > > > champion prior to the incubator application. Is this mailing list an > > > > appropriate place to solicit for such a person? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > A better world shall emerge based on faith and understanding - > Douglas > > > > MacArthur > > > > > > > > > - > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > A better world shall emerge based on faith and understanding - Douglas > > MacArthur > > > > > > -- > Thanks > - Mohammad Nour > > "Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving" > - Albert Einstein > -- A better world shall emerge based on faith and understanding - Douglas MacArthur
Re: Looking for a Champion
Hi Tom On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 9:43 PM, Tom Everett wrote: > Hi Mohammad I'd be quite happy for your assistance. I haven't made a > significant effort to build a community around Pragmatach, mainly because > I'm not familiar with how to announce it, where, and to whom. Is there any > assistance you can offer with that? > Sure I would like to do that, but I suggest to take that off this list as this is more for discussing new projects coming into Incubator hoping to get back to it when the project is ready for that > > > On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 2:25 AM, Mohammad Nour El-Din < > nour.moham...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Hi Tom > > > >The proposal looks pretty interesting on the technical level indeed, > but > > when it comes to ASF it is more about building (or trying to guarantee) > of > > community around a project so it can continue and evolve and does not > die, > > in terms of the code being maintained and used > > > > Yes Incubator is about being an intermediate step for a project to come > > into the ASF, but it is more about helping an already existing community, > > which IMHO and from what I have seen from projects in the Incubator that > > initial community should be big enough (I would say at least three real > > active committers) to start proposing the project into the Incubator > > > > I have mentored a project before which was more than appealing technical > > wise and they already had big enough community (three committers) but by > > the time after just coming into the Incubator their > > availability severely changed and the project could not make it > > > > I would suggest to wait a bit and build more awareness about the project > > and get more enough people around and then continue with the proposal to > > ASF Incubator, if you would like and allow me I can help in that > > > > > > On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 4:01 AM, Tom Everett wrote: > > > > > Thank-you. I am looking for both champion and mentors, for this > project: > > > > > > > > > > > > http://blog.khubla.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/pragmatach-incubator-proposal.pdf > > > > > > I hope that a pdf document is acceptable. The web site is here > > > > > > http://www.pragmatach.com > > > > > > If you're interested, there is a web-based presentation here: > > > > > > http://pragmatach.com/slideshow/index.html > > > > > > If there is any more information I can supply that might be of interest > > > please let me know. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, May 6, 2013 at 7:29 PM, Suresh Marru > wrote: > > > > > > > Yes this is the right list for soliciting champion and mentors. > > > > > > > > Suresh > > > > > > > > On May 6, 2013, at 7:04 PM, Tom Everett wrote: > > > > > > > > > Good afternoon. > > > > > > > > > > I have a project which I am hoping to submit to the incubator, and > I > > > > > understand from the documentation that it is recommended to > identify > > a > > > > > champion prior to the incubator application. Is this mailing list > an > > > > > appropriate place to solicit for such a person? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > A better world shall emerge based on faith and understanding - > > Douglas > > > > > MacArthur > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > A better world shall emerge based on faith and understanding - Douglas > > > MacArthur > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Thanks > > - Mohammad Nour > > > > "Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep > moving" > > - Albert Einstein > > > > > > -- > A better world shall emerge based on faith and understanding - Douglas > MacArthur > -- Thanks - Mohammad Nour "Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving" - Albert Einstein
Re: Looking for a Champion
Hi Ulrich, thanks for replying. My response will be a little longer here, but I think you've asked a really important question, so perhaps it deserves a good answer. I have personal experience implementing sites with Stuts2 and MyFaces. I did look at Click, and I have some experience with Sling, in the CQ-Jackrabbit world. Frankly, it would have been significantly easier to use existing technology than to implement yet-another-framework. However, I felt that the needs I had identified were best served with something new. Two of the needs I had identified where simplicity and maintainability. That's not to say that the existing frameworks are not simple or not maintainable; they just were not so in the terms that I needed. The sites I was working with were primarily UI code (JS, HTML5, CSS3), and needed minimal server-side support. That is, they didn't need all the generality and flexibility of a general purpose framework; they simply needed to be able to post a form, consume a JSON request and produce a JSON response, etc. The target audience is not J2EE programmers; it's UI programmers, or "browser programmers". An primary concern was the need for extreme simplicity. I wanted to be able to turn over applications to junior programmers, interns, or even UI programmers with minimal J2EE skills, to maintain. So, for example a Pragmatach app uses maven exclusively to build and produces a war file, rather than needing to run inside the context of server software (Play) or build with sbt. It's not hard to find juniors who can use maven, and deploy a war file. Additionally, I did heavily borrow ideas from other frameworks; the use of annotations from JSF and Struts2 for example. I wanted to be able to fully specify a controller in a single .java file, so rather than a "routes file" (Grails, Play), so I chose to specify routes as controller annotations and then sort them programmatically to produce a routes file. Once applications go live, they have to be operated. I felt that this was a missing aspect; there was a tendency to just build out applications and then hand them over to deploy and run, without providing in-application support to operate them in the real world. For that reason I included the Pragmatach runtime console, and built-in JMX support. I also wrote a statsd plugin; that technology is becoming quite popular. Finally, with respect to Click and Wicket, which are both very cool, I felt that they were trying to be full-featured frameworks which addressed both client-side and server-side needs. I was specifically trying to stay away from the client side, in order to impose no constraints whatever on the target audience; client-side programmers. I tried to provide strong server-side JSON and XML support, knowing that client-side programmers prefer to communicate with servers via Ajax & JSON, but I didn't want to go as far as binding data to widgets, for example. On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 3:14 AM, Ulrich Stärk wrote: > The ASF is home to a number of web frameworks (e.g. Struts, Wicket, > Tapestry, Sling, MyFaces, Click, > ...). Have you thought of contributing to one of those instead of creating > a completely new > framework? What was the outcome? Are there cross-pollination > possibilities? If your goals match with > the goals of one of these projects, it could be easy to find a champion > for you from one of these > communities. > > Uli > > On 07.05.2013 04:01, Tom Everett wrote: > > Thank-you. I am looking for both champion and mentors, for this project: > > > > > http://blog.khubla.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/pragmatach-incubator-proposal.pdf > > > > I hope that a pdf document is acceptable. The web site is here > > > > http://www.pragmatach.com > > > > If you're interested, there is a web-based presentation here: > > > > http://pragmatach.com/slideshow/index.html > > > > If there is any more information I can supply that might be of interest > > please let me know. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, May 6, 2013 at 7:29 PM, Suresh Marru wrote: > > > >> Yes this is the right list for soliciting champion and mentors. > >> > >> Suresh > >> > >> On May 6, 2013, at 7:04 PM, Tom Everett wrote: > >> > >>> Good afternoon. > >>> > >>> I have a project which I am hoping to submit to the incubator, and I > >>> understand from the documentation that it is recommended to identify a > >>> champion prior to the incubator application. Is this mailing list an > >>> appropriate place to solicit for such a person? > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> A better world shall emerge based on faith and understanding - Douglas > >>> MacArthur > >> > >> > >> - > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > >> > >> > > > > > -- A better world shall emerge based on faith and understanding - Douglas MacArthur
Re: Looking for a Champion
No problem. Perhaps Google Groups? https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!forum/pragmatach-framework On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 1:49 PM, Mohammad Nour El-Din < nour.moham...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Tom > > > On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 9:43 PM, Tom Everett wrote: > > > Hi Mohammad I'd be quite happy for your assistance. I haven't made a > > significant effort to build a community around Pragmatach, mainly because > > I'm not familiar with how to announce it, where, and to whom. Is there > any > > assistance you can offer with that? > > > > Sure I would like to do that, but I suggest to take that off this list as > this is more for discussing new projects coming into Incubator hoping to > get back to it when the project is ready for that > > > > > > > > On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 2:25 AM, Mohammad Nour El-Din < > > nour.moham...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > Hi Tom > > > > > >The proposal looks pretty interesting on the technical level indeed, > > but > > > when it comes to ASF it is more about building (or trying to guarantee) > > of > > > community around a project so it can continue and evolve and does not > > die, > > > in terms of the code being maintained and used > > > > > > Yes Incubator is about being an intermediate step for a project to come > > > into the ASF, but it is more about helping an already existing > community, > > > which IMHO and from what I have seen from projects in the Incubator > that > > > initial community should be big enough (I would say at least three real > > > active committers) to start proposing the project into the Incubator > > > > > > I have mentored a project before which was more than appealing > technical > > > wise and they already had big enough community (three committers) but > by > > > the time after just coming into the Incubator their > > > availability severely changed and the project could not make it > > > > > > I would suggest to wait a bit and build more awareness about the > project > > > and get more enough people around and then continue with the proposal > to > > > ASF Incubator, if you would like and allow me I can help in that > > > > > > > > > On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 4:01 AM, Tom Everett wrote: > > > > > > > Thank-you. I am looking for both champion and mentors, for this > > project: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://blog.khubla.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/pragmatach-incubator-proposal.pdf > > > > > > > > I hope that a pdf document is acceptable. The web site is here > > > > > > > > http://www.pragmatach.com > > > > > > > > If you're interested, there is a web-based presentation here: > > > > > > > > http://pragmatach.com/slideshow/index.html > > > > > > > > If there is any more information I can supply that might be of > interest > > > > please let me know. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, May 6, 2013 at 7:29 PM, Suresh Marru > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Yes this is the right list for soliciting champion and mentors. > > > > > > > > > > Suresh > > > > > > > > > > On May 6, 2013, at 7:04 PM, Tom Everett wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Good afternoon. > > > > > > > > > > > > I have a project which I am hoping to submit to the incubator, > and > > I > > > > > > understand from the documentation that it is recommended to > > identify > > > a > > > > > > champion prior to the incubator application. Is this mailing list > > an > > > > > > appropriate place to solicit for such a person? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > A better world shall emerge based on faith and understanding - > > > Douglas > > > > > > MacArthur > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > A better world shall emerge based on faith and understanding - > Douglas > > > > MacArthur > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Thanks > > > - Mohammad Nour > > > > > > "Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep > > moving" > > > - Albert Einstein > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > A better world shall emerge based on faith and understanding - Douglas > > MacArthur > > > > > > -- > Thanks > - Mohammad Nour > > "Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving" > - Albert Einstein > -- A better world shall emerge based on faith and understanding - Douglas MacArthur
Re: Looking for a Champion
Hey, thanks for replying and for the feedback. I've added you as a committer and perhaps we can carry on this chat on Google Groups https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!forum/pragmatach-framework On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 4:02 AM, Maurizio Cucchiara wrote: > First I have to say that the project looks really interesting, even > the proposal seems to me good (little side note: I think you should > mention the use of cryptography [1]). > I agree with what Mohammad pointed out: "Community over Code". > > I don't know if there are some match points between Struts and your > project (S2 is more an action based FW), but we can talk about it. > If you want, count on me as initial committer. > > > [1] > https://github.com/teverett/Pragmatach/tree/master/pragmatach-framework/src/main/java/com/khubla/pragmatach/framework/crypto > > > Twitter :http://www.twitter.com/m_cucchiara > G+ :https://plus.google.com/107903711540963855921 > Linkedin:http://www.linkedin.com/in/mauriziocucchiara > VisualizeMe: http://vizualize.me/maurizio.cucchiara?r=maurizio.cucchiara > > Maurizio Cucchiara > > > On 7 May 2013 11:14, Ulrich Stärk wrote: > > > > The ASF is home to a number of web frameworks (e.g. Struts, Wicket, > Tapestry, Sling, MyFaces, Click, > > ...). Have you thought of contributing to one of those instead of > creating a completely new > > framework? What was the outcome? Are there cross-pollination > possibilities? If your goals match with > > the goals of one of these projects, it could be easy to find a champion > for you from one of these > > communities. > > > > Uli > > > > On 07.05.2013 04:01, Tom Everett wrote: > > > Thank-you. I am looking for both champion and mentors, for this > project: > > > > > > > http://blog.khubla.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/pragmatach-incubator-proposal.pdf > > > > > > I hope that a pdf document is acceptable. The web site is here > > > > > > http://www.pragmatach.com > > > > > > If you're interested, there is a web-based presentation here: > > > > > > http://pragmatach.com/slideshow/index.html > > > > > > If there is any more information I can supply that might be of interest > > > please let me know. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, May 6, 2013 at 7:29 PM, Suresh Marru > wrote: > > > > > >> Yes this is the right list for soliciting champion and mentors. > > >> > > >> Suresh > > >> > > >> On May 6, 2013, at 7:04 PM, Tom Everett wrote: > > >> > > >>> Good afternoon. > > >>> > > >>> I have a project which I am hoping to submit to the incubator, and I > > >>> understand from the documentation that it is recommended to identify > a > > >>> champion prior to the incubator application. Is this mailing list an > > >>> appropriate place to solicit for such a person? > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> -- > > >>> A better world shall emerge based on faith and understanding - > Douglas > > >>> MacArthur > > >> > > >> > > >> - > > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > > >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > - > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > > -- A better world shall emerge based on faith and understanding - Douglas MacArthur
A lot of reports missing these period
Folks, its reporting time and at the wiki are a lot of them missing! http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/May2013 Ambari Blur DeltaSpike (hasn't it graduated?) Droids Falcon Hadoop Development Tools MRQL Open Climate Workbench Provisionr Tajo Tez Please mentors of these projects catch up with your podlings. Cheers Christian - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: A lot of reports missing these period
How odd. I don't think that MRQL received the notice from Marvin. Regards, Alan On May 7, 2013, at 1:42 PM, Christian Grobmeier wrote: > Folks, > > its reporting time and at the wiki are a lot of them missing! > http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/May2013 > > Ambari > Blur > DeltaSpike (hasn't it graduated?) > Droids > Falcon > Hadoop Development Tools > MRQL > Open Climate Workbench > Provisionr > Tajo > Tez > > Please mentors of these projects catch up with your podlings. > > Cheers > Christian > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
[VOTE] Release JSPWiki version 2.9.1-incubating (2nd RC)
Hi all, We've held a vote on jspwiki-dev for a 2nd RC of Apache JSPWiki 2.9.1-incubating [#1]. The vote on release candidate has been open for more than 72 hours on the developer mailing list. After the voting timeframe, we have 3 non-binding votes (from jspwiki developers). I'd therefore like to ask now the general incubator to check our release candidate. The release notes (fixed issues) are available at the Jira Issue Tracker [#2]. Please find attached below the concrete details on the release and on the vote. thanks in advance, juan pablo [#1] http://s.apache.org/UDD [#2] https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/ReleaseNote.jspa?projectId=12310732&version=12321249 === Note that we are voting upon the source (subversion tag and signed artifacts). Binaries are provided for convenience only. The tag to be voted upon: http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/jspwiki/tags/jspwiki_2_9_1_incubating_rc2 Source and binary files, with RAT report: http://people.apache.org/~juanpablo/releases/2.9.1-incubating-4-rc2/ Checksums: JSPWiki-2.9.1-incubating-4-bin.zip MD5:58b7e2fd9290612762825683e81ca22d SHA1: 5eb4cfa7c7b00e2a002573c72f1e83c15f708e2b SHA512: 0e1487d09044e0ce900194b42ff3e465ee96ebde1a75c0603715ec42bbf425b950c901bff87bbadf43173d3c91ced170ab0eebe4525706344642e68db069ba18 JSPWiki-2.9.1-incubating-4-src.zip MD5:707b52ce9ca32fe012bcc3b1a79d8f96 SHA1: 41619359a04d49a2f5b58b8ba1a5d0c186fbbb1c SHA512: 2c4f6e0b9e163d2b3ae60a091993598ed6e315a7f7b4c08a9232cbd0c1eccba4259818e0e9ab8a86350a0109924be21cc0627e8a549bbd52b14ca7b40dcccee0 JSPWiki's KEYS file containing PGP keys we use to sign the release: http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/jspwiki/KEYS [ ] +1 Release this package as Apache JSPWiki 2.9.1-incubating [ ] 0 I don't feel strongly about it, but I'm okay with the release [ ] -1 Do not release this package because...
Re: A lot of reports missing these period
Falcon and Tez reported in April. -C On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 1:42 PM, Christian Grobmeier wrote: > Folks, > > its reporting time and at the wiki are a lot of them missing! > http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/May2013 > > Ambari > Blur > DeltaSpike (hasn't it graduated?) > Droids > Falcon > Hadoop Development Tools > MRQL > Open Climate Workbench > Provisionr > Tajo > Tez > > Please mentors of these projects catch up with your podlings. > > Cheers > Christian > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: A lot of reports missing these period
Hey Christian, My guess is that since the wiki was down these slipped. I know that I plan on producing reports by end of week and getting them up there ASAP for my podlings. Cheers, Chris ++ Chris Mattmann, Ph.D. Senior Computer Scientist NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246 Email: chris.a.mattm...@nasa.gov WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/ ++ Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA ++ -Original Message- From: Christian Grobmeier Reply-To: "general@incubator.apache.org" Date: Tuesday, May 7, 2013 1:42 PM To: "general@incubator.apache.org" Subject: A lot of reports missing these period >Folks, > >its reporting time and at the wiki are a lot of them missing! >http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/May2013 > >Ambari >Blur >DeltaSpike (hasn't it graduated?) >Droids >Falcon >Hadoop Development Tools >MRQL >Open Climate Workbench >Provisionr >Tajo >Tez > >Please mentors of these projects catch up with your podlings. > >Cheers >Christian > >- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org >For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [META DISCUSS] talking about the overall state of this PMC
On 7 May 2013 08:56, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote: > On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 5:37 PM, Tim Williams wrote: >> ...I signed up to *mentor* not send silly heartbeat >> checks that exist because other podling's mentors failed to live up to >> their responsibility... > > 0 0 1 * * echo "Hi, the FOO podling is alive." | mail -s "Hi folks" > general@incubator.apache.org :-D On a serious note Tim does make a good point. Solving the problem of identifying podlings with inadequate mentoring by asking active mentors to be more active seems to be flawed. Ross - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: A lot of reports missing these period
On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 4:50 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (398J) wrote: > My guess is that since the wiki was down these slipped. > > I know that I plan on producing reports by end of week and getting them > up there ASAP for my podlings. Ah, right; those were added after the report was generated. I copied the previous status into this month's report as a starting point. -C > -Original Message- > From: Christian Grobmeier > Reply-To: "general@incubator.apache.org" > Date: Tuesday, May 7, 2013 1:42 PM > To: "general@incubator.apache.org" > Subject: A lot of reports missing these period > >>Folks, >> >>its reporting time and at the wiki are a lot of them missing! >>http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/May2013 >> >>Ambari >>Blur >>DeltaSpike (hasn't it graduated?) >>Droids >>Falcon >>Hadoop Development Tools >>MRQL >>Open Climate Workbench >>Provisionr >>Tajo >>Tez >> >>Please mentors of these projects catch up with your podlings. >> >>Cheers >>Christian >> >>- >>To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org >>For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org >> > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [META DISCUSS] talking about the overall state of this PMC
Not really. It's a heartbeat/health-check like any other distributed, unreliable system. I was tempted to say it's a social implementation of STONITH, but that might send the wrong message. ;) On 8 May 2013 00:53, Ross Gardler wrote: > On 7 May 2013 08:56, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote: > > On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 5:37 PM, Tim Williams > wrote: > >> ...I signed up to *mentor* not send silly heartbeat > >> checks that exist because other podling's mentors failed to live up to > >> their responsibility... > > > > 0 0 1 * * echo "Hi, the FOO podling is alive." | mail -s "Hi folks" > > general@incubator.apache.org > > :-D > > On a serious note Tim does make a good point. Solving the problem of > identifying podlings with inadequate mentoring by asking active > mentors to be more active seems to be flawed. > > Ross > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > -- NS
Re: A lot of reports missing these period
Christian Grobmeier wrote: > Folks, > > its reporting time and at the wiki are a lot of them missing! > http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/May2013 > > Ambari > Blur > DeltaSpike (hasn't it graduated?) The Voting Status page indicates that they have not finalised their graduation vote, nor commenced the graduation steps. So the incubator records and automated systems are wonky. -David > Droids > Falcon > Hadoop Development Tools > MRQL > Open Climate Workbench > Provisionr > Tajo > Tez > > Please mentors of these projects catch up with your podlings. > > Cheers > Christian - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [META DISCUSS] talking about the overall state of this PMC
On a whole different direction, one way to "scale" is to shift from Incubator-managed podlings to Board-managed. The podling would effectively be a "TLP on probation". The Champion, Mentors, and Board would be providing oversight. I would posit that the Board is more capable of oversight than the IPMC. The Directors have signed up to spend a lot of time -- more than we expect of most volunteers. Not to mention the Board reviews 50+ reports every month. Another five won't kill the Board :-P Thus, I might suggest that a proposed-podling may want to try the above approach. (I dunno if the Board would agree, but somebody has to formally ask!) Cheers, -g On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 11:55 AM, Upayavira wrote: > The problem that most podlings I've been involved with, whilst having > six mentors, have ended up with just me playing any part. On paper, it > looks like these podlings are in a great place, in fact, they only have > a single active mentor. > > What is wanted is to know who is, and who isn't active. To spot > problems. Benson's idea is to say that a simple 'I'm here' message would > really help the incubator PMC. I'd agree with that. The question is, > who's job is it to track all this. Should the PMC go look and do all the > leg-work, or should projects and their mentors take some of the load? > Really, the more responsibility is centralised, the less the incubator > will scale. Looking for ways that mentors can show their involvement is > a good thing. I guess that could be automated (grep through mail > archives for mentor email addresses each month), but until that happens, > I'd say it would be a good thing for mentors/champions to take some of > that load off the incubator PMC. It need merely be a reply to a Marvin > 'are you there' email. > > Upayavira > > > On Tue, May 7, 2013, at 04:37 PM, Tim Williams wrote: >> On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 11:20 AM, Benson Margulies >> wrote: >> > There was a consensus to add the Champion role, and we haven't even >> > tried it seriously, and now you propose to eliminate it. That doesn't >> > seem reasonable to me. I'd rather try to make it useful and then >> > evaluate it. In other words, +1 to Bertrand. >> > >> > 'Holding mentors to their responsibility' as a completely generic >> > concept is an idea that constantly fails to reach a consensus, due to >> > the 'volunteer dilemma'. >> > >> > For others in this thread, I completely disagree that a monthly one >> > line edit to the XML file or a one line email is an unreasonable >> > burden. >> >> Fair enough, disagree. >> >> > Any mentor, let alone champion, for whom that is an >> > unreasonable burden should not have signed up in the first place. >> >> That's unfair. I signed up to *mentor* not send silly heartbeat >> checks that exist because other podling's mentors failed to live up to >> their responsibility. This feels beyond the minimal governance >> necessary and a solution to the wrong problem. It'd helpful to say >> precisely what problem that this heartbeat is intended to solve, in >> that way, we are afforded the opportunity to propose an alternative >> solution - for example, by focusing on highlighting the problem >> mentors/podlings. >> >> Thanks, >> --tim >> >> - >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org >> > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [META DISCUSS] talking about the overall state of this PMC
I would posit the exact same thing. +1 my friend. This has been my whole point all along. Cheers, Chris ++ Chris Mattmann, Ph.D. Senior Computer Scientist NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246 Email: chris.a.mattm...@nasa.gov WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/ ++ Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA ++ -Original Message- From: Greg Stein Reply-To: "general@incubator.apache.org" Date: Tuesday, May 7, 2013 9:15 PM To: "general@incubator.apache.org" Subject: Re: [META DISCUSS] talking about the overall state of this PMC >On a whole different direction, one way to "scale" is to shift from >Incubator-managed podlings to Board-managed. The podling would >effectively be a "TLP on probation". The Champion, Mentors, and Board >would be providing oversight. > >I would posit that the Board is more capable of oversight than the >IPMC. The Directors have signed up to spend a lot of time -- more than >we expect of most volunteers. Not to mention the Board reviews 50+ >reports every month. Another five won't kill the Board :-P > >Thus, I might suggest that a proposed-podling may want to try the >above approach. (I dunno if the Board would agree, but somebody has to >formally ask!) > >Cheers, >-g > > >On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 11:55 AM, Upayavira wrote: >> The problem that most podlings I've been involved with, whilst having >> six mentors, have ended up with just me playing any part. On paper, it >> looks like these podlings are in a great place, in fact, they only have >> a single active mentor. >> >> What is wanted is to know who is, and who isn't active. To spot >> problems. Benson's idea is to say that a simple 'I'm here' message would >> really help the incubator PMC. I'd agree with that. The question is, >> who's job is it to track all this. Should the PMC go look and do all the >> leg-work, or should projects and their mentors take some of the load? >> Really, the more responsibility is centralised, the less the incubator >> will scale. Looking for ways that mentors can show their involvement is >> a good thing. I guess that could be automated (grep through mail >> archives for mentor email addresses each month), but until that happens, >> I'd say it would be a good thing for mentors/champions to take some of >> that load off the incubator PMC. It need merely be a reply to a Marvin >> 'are you there' email. >> >> Upayavira >> >> >> On Tue, May 7, 2013, at 04:37 PM, Tim Williams wrote: >>> On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 11:20 AM, Benson Margulies >>> >>> wrote: >>> > There was a consensus to add the Champion role, and we haven't even >>> > tried it seriously, and now you propose to eliminate it. That >>>doesn't >>> > seem reasonable to me. I'd rather try to make it useful and then >>> > evaluate it. In other words, +1 to Bertrand. >>> > >>> > 'Holding mentors to their responsibility' as a completely generic >>> > concept is an idea that constantly fails to reach a consensus, due to >>> > the 'volunteer dilemma'. >>> > >>> > For others in this thread, I completely disagree that a monthly one >>> > line edit to the XML file or a one line email is an unreasonable >>> > burden. >>> >>> Fair enough, disagree. >>> >>> > Any mentor, let alone champion, for whom that is an >>> > unreasonable burden should not have signed up in the first place. >>> >>> That's unfair. I signed up to *mentor* not send silly heartbeat >>> checks that exist because other podling's mentors failed to live up to >>> their responsibility. This feels beyond the minimal governance >>> necessary and a solution to the wrong problem. It'd helpful to say >>> precisely what problem that this heartbeat is intended to solve, in >>> that way, we are afforded the opportunity to propose an alternative >>> solution - for example, by focusing on highlighting the problem >>> mentors/podlings. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> --tim >>> >>> - >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org >>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org >>> >> >> - >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org >> > >- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org >For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: gener
Re: [META DISCUSS] talking about the overall state of this PMC
On May 7, 2013, at 4:03 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote: > On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 5:45 AM, Alan Cabrera wrote: >> ...Let's get rid of champions and shepherds and hold the mentors to their >> responsibilities > > The problem with mentors is when you have 5 of them it's unclear who's > in charge exactly. Why does someone need to be in charge? The real problem is that we have five mentors four, or more, of which do not do the job to which they signed up for. All we're doing is shuffling responsibilities around with the hopes that the next person will be more responsible than the previous one. > The goal of the champion's role clarification was to have a single > point of contact and responsibility for contacts with the incubator > PMC - similar to a project's PMC chair role. > > So basically you have: > > A champion, who's a mentor, but also the primary point of contact with > the IPMC, makes sure reports are done in time and watches the podling > for lack of mentoring if that happens. > > Mentors, who are primarily tasked with coaching the podling. I'm hearing Benson's proposal accurately rephrased. We're pushing responsibilities which seemed "too much" for three or more mentors over to a single mentor and diluting the responsibilities into non-accountable tasks such as coaching. What I'm worried about is that were merely shuffling responsibilities around without really coming to a consensus as to what to do when volunteers don't do the job they signed up for. Until we have an answer for that we'll continuously have this conversation every other quarter as we shuffle responsibilities around again. The myth that we seem to be holding dear is that we cannot hold volunteers accountable for the tasks they signed up for. Maybe if we did hold volunteers accountable , they would take their responsibilities seriously and we would have a clearer picture as to what kind of help to expect as we discuss the IPMCs problems. Regards, Alan - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [META DISCUSS] talking about the overall state of this PMC
On May 7, 2013, at 9:15 PM, Greg Stein wrote: > On a whole different direction, one way to "scale" is to shift from > Incubator-managed podlings to Board-managed. The podling would > effectively be a "TLP on probation". The Champion, Mentors, and Board > would be providing oversight. > > I would posit that the Board is more capable of oversight than the > IPMC. The Directors have signed up to spend a lot of time -- more than > we expect of most volunteers. Not to mention the Board reviews 50+ > reports every month. Another five won't kill the Board :-P > > Thus, I might suggest that a proposed-podling may want to try the > above approach. (I dunno if the Board would agree, but somebody has to > formally ask!) This pre-supposes that the problem is the IPMC and not the mentors. If the board members have the spare time to work on incubators then I recommend they come over to the IPMC and help out. Regards, Alan - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [META DISCUSS] talking about the overall state of this PMC
You go girl! Spot on. Sent from my iPhone On May 8, 2013, at 12:54 AM, Alan Cabrera wrote: > > On May 7, 2013, at 4:03 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz > wrote: > >> On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 5:45 AM, Alan Cabrera wrote: >>> ...Let's get rid of champions and shepherds and hold the mentors to their >>> responsibilities >> >> The problem with mentors is when you have 5 of them it's unclear who's >> in charge exactly. > > Why does someone need to be in charge? The real problem is that we have five > mentors four, or more, of which do not do the job to which they signed up for. > > All we're doing is shuffling responsibilities around with the hopes that the > next person will be more responsible than the previous one. > >> The goal of the champion's role clarification was to have a single >> point of contact and responsibility for contacts with the incubator >> PMC - similar to a project's PMC chair role. >> >> So basically you have: >> >> A champion, who's a mentor, but also the primary point of contact with >> the IPMC, makes sure reports are done in time and watches the podling >> for lack of mentoring if that happens. >> >> Mentors, who are primarily tasked with coaching the podling. > > I'm hearing Benson's proposal accurately rephrased. > > We're pushing responsibilities which seemed "too much" for three or more > mentors over to a single mentor and diluting the responsibilities into > non-accountable tasks such as coaching. > > What I'm worried about is that were merely shuffling responsibilities around > without really coming to a consensus as to what to do when volunteers don't > do the job they signed up for. Until we have an answer for that we'll > continuously have this conversation every other quarter as we shuffle > responsibilities around again. > > The myth that we seem to be holding dear is that we cannot hold volunteers > accountable for the tasks they signed up for. Maybe if we did hold > volunteers accountable , they would take their responsibilities seriously and > we would have a clearer picture as to what kind of help to expect as we > discuss the IPMCs problems. > > > Regards, > Alan > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [META DISCUSS] talking about the overall state of this PMC
On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 12:58 AM, Alan Cabrera wrote: > > On May 7, 2013, at 9:15 PM, Greg Stein wrote: > >> On a whole different direction, one way to "scale" is to shift from >> Incubator-managed podlings to Board-managed. The podling would >> effectively be a "TLP on probation". The Champion, Mentors, and Board >> would be providing oversight. >> >> I would posit that the Board is more capable of oversight than the >> IPMC. The Directors have signed up to spend a lot of time -- more than >> we expect of most volunteers. Not to mention the Board reviews 50+ >> reports every month. Another five won't kill the Board :-P >> >> Thus, I might suggest that a proposed-podling may want to try the >> above approach. (I dunno if the Board would agree, but somebody has to >> formally ask!) > > This pre-supposes that the problem is the IPMC and not the mentors. If the > board members have the spare time to work on incubators then I recommend they > come over to the IPMC and help out. There is a difference in responsibilities. The Board would review, and would shut it down if it goes wrong. That is very different from stepping in to directly guide. If the probationary TLP is not functioning properly (mentors/champion/podling are not up to par), then it will get noticed. I think the IPMC doesn't really notice/correct for this, so yeah: that *is* my pre-supposition. I also think the Board is capable of doing this, rather than needing the IPMC layer between the podling and the Board. I also feel reporting directly to the Board is necessary education. And part of the difference is that the Board reviews/discusses the reports. The IPMC does not have any discussion. The shepherds may set off some discussion, so they are a good way to try and get some IPMC-level review/discussion going. Note: this approach absolutely follows your basic point: Mentors need to step up and do what they volunteered for. There is nobody to fill in for their absence, other than the probationary TLP itself. The Board certainly will not be doing any hand-holding. (and they might be a bit more ruthless than the IPMC) Cheers, -g - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [META DISCUSS] talking about the overall state of this PMC
On May 7, 2013, at 10:27 PM, Greg Stein wrote: > On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 12:58 AM, Alan Cabrera wrote: >> >> On May 7, 2013, at 9:15 PM, Greg Stein wrote: >> >>> On a whole different direction, one way to "scale" is to shift from >>> Incubator-managed podlings to Board-managed. The podling would >>> effectively be a "TLP on probation". The Champion, Mentors, and Board >>> would be providing oversight. >>> >>> I would posit that the Board is more capable of oversight than the >>> IPMC. The Directors have signed up to spend a lot of time -- more than >>> we expect of most volunteers. Not to mention the Board reviews 50+ >>> reports every month. Another five won't kill the Board :-P >>> >>> Thus, I might suggest that a proposed-podling may want to try the >>> above approach. (I dunno if the Board would agree, but somebody has to >>> formally ask!) >> >> This pre-supposes that the problem is the IPMC and not the mentors. If the >> board members have the spare time to work on incubators then I recommend >> they come over to the IPMC and help out. > > There is a difference in responsibilities. The Board would review, and > would shut it down if it goes wrong. That is very different from > stepping in to directly guide. Sorry, I meant board members as individuals joining the IPMC. You would be able to do the same thing, no? > If the probationary TLP is not functioning properly > (mentors/champion/podling are not up to par), then it will get > noticed. I think the IPMC doesn't really notice/correct for this, so > yeah: that *is* my pre-supposition. I also think the Board is capable > of doing this, rather than needing the IPMC layer between the podling > and the Board. Then the IPMC needs to be fixed. Shuttling the kids off to the grandparents is not a solution. The IPMC needs to be fixed. > I also feel reporting directly to the Board is necessary education. > And part of the difference is that the Board reviews/discusses the > reports. The IPMC does not have any discussion. The shepherds may set > off some discussion, so they are a good way to try and get some > IPMC-level review/discussion going. You're describing an dysfunctional Incubator PMC. Shepherds are a distraction from the fact that mentors are not doing their jobs and the IPMC seems unwilling to hold them responsible. > Note: this approach absolutely follows your basic point: Mentors need > to step up and do what they volunteered for. There is nobody to fill > in for their absence, other than the probationary TLP itself. The > Board certainly will not be doing any hand-holding. (and they might be > a bit more ruthless than the IPMC) Because the mentors are not doing their jobs, the podlings, which are on probation projects to begin with, are now to be probationary top level projects, under those very same absent mentors, under the auspices of the Board, while the IPMC does what? Sorry, but that sounds like double secret probation. ;) How long is the board going to do this? This seems, to me, to be adding more obfuscation in an orthogonal direction to that of shuttling responsibilities over to champions. Both directions, imho, are distractions from the real hard work ahead. Just my 2 cents. :) Regards, Alan - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
