Re: [VOTE] Release of Apache Allura (incubating) v1.0.1
On Nov 5, 2013 2:10 AM, Cory Johns john...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, This is a call for a vote on Apache Allura 1.0.1 incubating. This is our second attempt at an initial release, which specifically addresses the concerns raised in the previous, cancelled vote. A vote was held on developer mailing list and it passed with 8 +1's, and 0 -1's or +0's (with one of the +1's being from a project mentor) and now requires a vote on general@incubator.apache.org. +1 -- Rich Bowen - rbo...@rcbowen.com
Re: [PROPOSAL] Weave for Apache Incubator
Andreas Neumann wrote: Thank you for the feedback, it looks like the name Twill is appealing enough. I will update the proposal with the new name. I would also like to put the proposal on the incubator wiki (at https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/TwillProposal), can you please give me the privileges? (my user name is AndreasNeumann) Added you to ContributorsGroup. -David Thanks, -Andreas. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Incubator PMC/Board report for Nov 2013 ([ppmc])
Dear podling, This email was sent by an automated system on behalf of the Apache Incubator PMC. It is an initial reminder to give you plenty of time to prepare your quarterly board report. The board meeting is scheduled for Wed, 20 November 2013, 10:30:00:00 PST. The report for your podling will form a part of the Incubator PMC report. The Incubator PMC requires your report to be submitted 2 weeks before the board meeting, to allow sufficient time for review and submission (Wed, Nov 6th). Please submit your report with sufficient time to allow the incubator PMC, and subsequently board members to review and digest. Again, the very latest you should submit your report is 2 weeks prior to the board meeting. Thanks, The Apache Incubator PMC Submitting your Report -- Your report should contain the following: * Your project name * A brief description of your project, which assumes no knowledge of the project or necessarily of its field * A list of the three most important issues to address in the move towards graduation. * Any issues that the Incubator PMC or ASF Board might wish/need to be aware of * How has the community developed since the last report * How has the project developed since the last report. This should be appended to the Incubator Wiki page at: http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/November2013 Note: This manually populated. You may need to wait a little before this page is created from a template. Mentors --- Mentors should review reports for their project(s) and sign them off on the Incubator wiki page. Signing off reports shows that you are following the project - projects that are not signed may raise alarms for the Incubator PMC. Incubator PMC - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Incubator PMC/Board report for Nov 2013 ([ppmc])
Dear podling, This email was sent by an automated system on behalf of the Apache Incubator PMC. It is an initial reminder to give you plenty of time to prepare your quarterly board report. The board meeting is scheduled for Wed, 20 November 2013, 10:30:00:00 PST. The report for your podling will form a part of the Incubator PMC report. The Incubator PMC requires your report to be submitted 2 weeks before the board meeting, to allow sufficient time for review and submission (Wed, Nov 6th). Please submit your report with sufficient time to allow the incubator PMC, and subsequently board members to review and digest. Again, the very latest you should submit your report is 2 weeks prior to the board meeting. Thanks, The Apache Incubator PMC Submitting your Report -- Your report should contain the following: * Your project name * A brief description of your project, which assumes no knowledge of the project or necessarily of its field * A list of the three most important issues to address in the move towards graduation. * Any issues that the Incubator PMC or ASF Board might wish/need to be aware of * How has the community developed since the last report * How has the project developed since the last report. This should be appended to the Incubator Wiki page at: http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/November2013 Note: This manually populated. You may need to wait a little before this page is created from a template. Mentors --- Mentors should review reports for their project(s) and sign them off on the Incubator wiki page. Signing off reports shows that you are following the project - projects that are not signed may raise alarms for the Incubator PMC. Incubator PMC - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
missing dev mail list for BatchEE and Sirona
Those two reminders are intended for BatchEE and Sirona. Their email dev list archive is not yet available, so this goes to general@ list. Clutch does detect their commits lists, but not their dev lists. http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/#batchee.incubator http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/#sirona.incubator Does anyone know why? Are they missing moderators or something? -David - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: missing dev mail list for BatchEE and Sirona
Hi David not sure what you mean but list are working AFAIK. We got batchee mail this morning again and I got some sirona mails yesterday Romain Manni-Bucau Twitter: @rmannibucau Blog: http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com/ LinkedIn: http://fr.linkedin.com/in/rmannibucau Github: https://github.com/rmannibucau 2013/11/7 David Crossley cross...@apache.org: Those two reminders are intended for BatchEE and Sirona. Their email dev list archive is not yet available, so this goes to general@ list. Clutch does detect their commits lists, but not their dev lists. http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/#batchee.incubator http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/#sirona.incubator Does anyone know why? Are they missing moderators or something? -David - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [IP CLEARANCE] RDP client for CloudStack
On Mon, Nov 04, 2013 at 02:05:06AM -0500, Chip Childers wrote: Citrix has donated a plugin for Apache CloudStack to support RDP connectivity for virtual machines running within Hyper-V hypervisors. IP Clearance Document: http://incubator.apache.org/ip-clearance/cloudstack-rdp-client.html Please vote to approve this contribution. Lazy consensus applies: if no -1 votes are cast within the next 72 hours, the vote passes. Thanks. With no comments, we'll proceed with the import. Thanks. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Cultivating Outstanding IP Stewards
Greetings, On August 28th, the Allura podling presented a release candidate to this list. Three weeks later, the VOTE was still open, and three of four Allura Mentors still had not been heard from. It so happens that the wayward Mentors all have illustrious reputations and exceptional records of contributing to the ASF. They include: * A current ASF Board member, past ASF President and ASF Board Chair. * A current ASF Board member and past ASF Board Chair. * The current ASF President. Should those individuals have skipped the monthly Board meeting to make time for Allura? Presumably not. And yet, how is it acceptable for a release vote -- which ought to take 72 hours -- to last for three weeks? Dave Brondsema and Cory Johns are two of Allura's core developers. With the help of the Incubator but largely through their own effort, they have become conversant with Apache intellectual property policy and release criteria. Their expertise exceeds that of most PMC members across all Apache TLPs. Furthermore, Dave and Cory are deeply invested in their project's future and intimately familiar with its code base. A vote by Dave or Cory to release Allura is ten times more meaningful than a vote by any Mentor, and a hundred times more meaningful than a vote by a freelance IPMC member who doesn't even read Allura's dev list -- let alone the commits list. But we don't count such votes. The Incubator has a fundamental structural flaw: it lacks a mechanism to reward merit earned by individual podling contributors. Instead, we teach people to hate the Incubator by placing their projects at the mercy of Mentors. Our Mentors care, but they don't care enough. They don't care like core developers care. The Incubator's system for approving releases is at odds with everything we believe at Apache about self-governance. It produces inferior releases, an inferior incubation experience, inferior students and an inferior ASF. We should change it. Marvin Humphrey - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: Cultivating Outstanding IP Stewards
On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 11:13 AM, Marvin Humphrey mar...@rectangular.comwrote: The Incubator has a fundamental structural flaw: it lacks a mechanism to reward merit earned by individual podling contributors. Instead, we teach people to hate the Incubator by placing their projects at the mercy of Mentors. Our Mentors care, but they don't care enough. They don't care like core developers care. Nominate these meritorious contributors as IPMC members.
Re: Cultivating Outstanding IP Stewards
Certainly this is being addressed and fixed in the current 1.0.1 release thread... So why is something 2 months old such a bee in your bonnet right now? And no, it's not acceptable. And I will state that, imo, the reason is due to the mistake of having 1 mentor. Back when the Incubator 1st started, there was 1 mentor per podling and they knew they had responsibility. As the # of mentors increased, there is that all too common and human response to say OK, I'm busy, but that's OK some other mentor will take up the slack until no one takes up the slack. On Nov 7, 2013, at 2:13 PM, Marvin Humphrey mar...@rectangular.com wrote: Greetings, On August 28th, the Allura podling presented a release candidate to this list. Three weeks later, the VOTE was still open, and three of four Allura Mentors still had not been heard from. It so happens that the wayward Mentors all have illustrious reputations and exceptional records of contributing to the ASF. They include: * A current ASF Board member, past ASF President and ASF Board Chair. * A current ASF Board member and past ASF Board Chair. * The current ASF President. Should those individuals have skipped the monthly Board meeting to make time for Allura? Presumably not. And yet, how is it acceptable for a release vote -- which ought to take 72 hours -- to last for three weeks? Dave Brondsema and Cory Johns are two of Allura's core developers. With the help of the Incubator but largely through their own effort, they have become conversant with Apache intellectual property policy and release criteria. Their expertise exceeds that of most PMC members across all Apache TLPs. Furthermore, Dave and Cory are deeply invested in their project's future and intimately familiar with its code base. A vote by Dave or Cory to release Allura is ten times more meaningful than a vote by any Mentor, and a hundred times more meaningful than a vote by a freelance IPMC member who doesn't even read Allura's dev list -- let alone the commits list. But we don't count such votes. The Incubator has a fundamental structural flaw: it lacks a mechanism to reward merit earned by individual podling contributors. Instead, we teach people to hate the Incubator by placing their projects at the mercy of Mentors. Our Mentors care, but they don't care enough. They don't care like core developers care. The Incubator's system for approving releases is at odds with everything we believe at Apache about self-governance. It produces inferior releases, an inferior incubation experience, inferior students and an inferior ASF. We should change it. Marvin Humphrey - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: Cultivating Outstanding IP Stewards
On Nov 7, 2013, at 2:13 PM, Marvin Humphrey mar...@rectangular.com wrote: The Incubator has a fundamental structural flaw: it lacks a mechanism to reward merit earned by individual podling contributors. Idea: Allow for podlings to nominate, and elect, Podling chairs which can cast Mentor-like votes. Instead, we teach people to hate the Incubator by placing their projects at the mercy of Mentors. Our Mentors care, but they don't care enough. They don't care like core developers care. How holier than thou. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: Cultivating Outstanding IP Stewards
Hey Guys, I agree with Ted below -- and also what I've seen you do Marvin as well -- let's nominate folks to the IPMC and get them binding VOTEs and get them rewarded as much as possible. Cheers, Chris -Original Message- From: Ted Dunning ted.dunn...@gmail.com Reply-To: general@incubator.apache.org general@incubator.apache.org Date: Thursday, November 7, 2013 12:20 PM To: general@incubator.apache.org general@incubator.apache.org Subject: Re: Cultivating Outstanding IP Stewards On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 11:13 AM, Marvin Humphrey mar...@rectangular.comwrote: The Incubator has a fundamental structural flaw: it lacks a mechanism to reward merit earned by individual podling contributors. Instead, we teach people to hate the Incubator by placing their projects at the mercy of Mentors. Our Mentors care, but they don't care enough. They don't care like core developers care. Nominate these meritorious contributors as IPMC members. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: Cultivating Outstanding IP Stewards
-Original Message- From: Jim Jagielski j...@jagunet.com Reply-To: general@incubator.apache.org general@incubator.apache.org Date: Thursday, November 7, 2013 12:31 PM To: general@incubator.apache.org general@incubator.apache.org Subject: Re: Cultivating Outstanding IP Stewards On Nov 7, 2013, at 2:13 PM, Marvin Humphrey mar...@rectangular.com wrote: The Incubator has a fundamental structural flaw: it lacks a mechanism to reward merit earned by individual podling contributors. Idea: Allow for podlings to nominate, and elect, Podling chairs which can cast Mentor-like votes. +1 to me this is the Champion role, and ultimately gets us closer to my proposal that podlings are just (*)TLPs as well :) Eventually over time people will realize that it's a faux asterisk, IMO. Cheers, Chris - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: Cultivating Outstanding IP Stewards
On Nov 7, 2013, at 2:13 PM, Marvin Humphrey mar...@rectangular.com wrote: The Incubator's system for approving releases is at odds with everything we believe at Apache about self-governance. It produces inferior releases, an inferior incubation experience, inferior students and an inferior ASF. We should change it. As soon as you step off your soapbox, be sure to provide some suggestions... And what *exactly* IS the role of the Incubator now? I suggest it's to oversee the Mentors, as well as do the initial OK for entry and the final approval for graduation (well, not approval but recommendation). Is the entire Incubator so busy that someone from the IPMC can't ping delinquent mentors directly, when they get off track, or too far backed up, ??? Would have sending an Email be s problematic? But, I guess, it wouldn't have been so dramatic. And yeah, I'm guilty about the voting stuff for the initial release. That's why I'm doing better following it now. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: Cultivating Outstanding IP Stewards
On Nov 7, 2013, at 1:37 PM, Chris Mattmann mattm...@apache.org wrote: -Original Message- From: Jim Jagielski j...@jagunet.com Reply-To: general@incubator.apache.org general@incubator.apache.org Date: Thursday, November 7, 2013 12:31 PM To: general@incubator.apache.org general@incubator.apache.org Subject: Re: Cultivating Outstanding IP Stewards On Nov 7, 2013, at 2:13 PM, Marvin Humphrey mar...@rectangular.com wrote: The Incubator has a fundamental structural flaw: it lacks a mechanism to reward merit earned by individual podling contributors. Idea: Allow for podlings to nominate, and elect, Podling chairs which can cast Mentor-like votes. +1 to me this is the Champion role No, I mean someone from the PPMC. For example, in the Allura case, the podling could nominate and elect Dave as podling chair and he would have Mentor powers. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: Cultivating Outstanding IP Stewards
Oooh, OK Jim, gotcha I didn't understand the first time. -Original Message- From: Jim Jagielski j...@jagunet.com Reply-To: general@incubator.apache.org general@incubator.apache.org Date: Thursday, November 7, 2013 12:49 PM To: general@incubator.apache.org general@incubator.apache.org Subject: Re: Cultivating Outstanding IP Stewards On Nov 7, 2013, at 1:37 PM, Chris Mattmann mattm...@apache.org wrote: -Original Message- From: Jim Jagielski j...@jagunet.com Reply-To: general@incubator.apache.org general@incubator.apache.org Date: Thursday, November 7, 2013 12:31 PM To: general@incubator.apache.org general@incubator.apache.org Subject: Re: Cultivating Outstanding IP Stewards On Nov 7, 2013, at 2:13 PM, Marvin Humphrey mar...@rectangular.com wrote: The Incubator has a fundamental structural flaw: it lacks a mechanism to reward merit earned by individual podling contributors. Idea: Allow for podlings to nominate, and elect, Podling chairs which can cast Mentor-like votes. +1 to me this is the Champion role No, I mean someone from the PPMC. For example, in the Allura case, the podling could nominate and elect Dave as podling chair and he would have Mentor powers. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Release Apache Tajo-0.2-incubating RC3
Are there other IPMC members who are willing to review this release? We need two more votes! - hyunsik 2013년 11월 4일 월요일에 Hyunsik Choi님이 작성: Hi folks This is the fourth candidate for Apache Tajo-0.2-incubating, and it is also the first official release for Tajo. The PPMC vote [1][2][3] was passed with 3 binding +4s and no -1. Release git tag is at: https://git-wip-us.apache.org/repos/asf?p=incubator-tajo.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/tags/release-0.2.0-rc3 Release notes is at: http://people.apache.org/~hyunsik/tajo-0.2.0-incubating-rc3/RELEASE_NOTES.html Release artifacts, signatures, md5, and sha1 are at: http://people.apache.org/~hyunsik/tajo-0.2.0-incubating-rc3/ and the KEYS file containing the PGP keys used to sign the release can currently be found at: http://people.apache.org/keys/group/tajo.asc The RAT report is at: http://people.apache.org/~hyunsik/tajo-0.2.0-incubating-rc3/rat.txt Please vote [ ] +1 release this package as apache-tajo-0.2-incubating [ ] -1 do not release this package because ... Thanks, Hyunsik Choi [1] http://markmail.org/message/cvwzgdfkq2zfmmbo [2] http://markmail.org/message/crhbpagwo3pvm4et [3] http://markmail.org/message/kofx3nfjzcr7chqu
Re: Cultivating Outstanding IP Stewards
On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 7:31 PM, Jim Jagielski j...@jagunet.com wrote: On Nov 7, 2013, at 2:13 PM, Marvin Humphrey mar...@rectangular.com wrote: The Incubator has a fundamental structural flaw: it lacks a mechanism to reward merit earned by individual podling contributors. Idea: Allow for podlings to nominate, and elect, Podling chairs which can cast Mentor-like votes. Ok, but how about we also allow there to be a Podling co-chair as well? That would make it possible for a podling with at least one active mentor to get the three binding votes needed to do a release. ...ant - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
[VOTE] Accept Twill for Incubation
The discussion about the Weave proposal has calmed. As the outcome of the discussion, we have chosen a new name for the project, Twill. I would like to call a vote for Twill to become an incubated project. The proposal is pasted below, and also available at: https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/TwillProposal Let's keep this vote open for three business days, closing the voting on Tuesday 11/12. [ ] +1 Accept Twill into the Incubator [ ] +0 Don't care. [ ] -1 Don't accept Twill because... -Andreas. = Abstract = Twill is an abstraction over Apache Hadoop® YARN that reduces the complexity of developing distributed applications, allowing developers to focus more on their business logic. = Proposal = Twill is a set of libraries that reduces the complexity of developing distributed applications. It exposes the distributed capabilities of Apache Hadoop® YARN via a simple and intuitive programming model similar to Java threads. Twill also has built-in capabilities required by many distributed applications, such as real-time application logs and metrics collection, application lifecycle management, and network service discovery. = Background = Hadoop YARN is a generic cluster resource manager that supports any type of distributed application. However, YARN’s interfaces are too low level for rapid application development. It requires a great deal of boilerplate code even for a simple application, creating a high ramp up cost that can turn developers away. Twill is designed to improve this situation with a programming model that makes running distributed applications as easy as running Java threads. With the abstraction provided by Twill, applications can be executed in process threads during development and unit testing and then be deployed to a YARN cluster without any modifications. Twill also has built-in support for real-time application logs and metrics collection, delegation token renewal, application lifecycle management, and network service discovery. This greatly reduces the pain that developers face when developing, debugging, deploying and monitoring distributed applications. Twill is not a replacement for YARN, it’s a framework that operates on top of YARN. = Rationale = Developers who write YARN applications typically find themselves implementing the same (or similar) boilerplate code over and over again for every application. It makes sense to distill this common code into a reusable set of libraries that is perpetually maintained and improved by a diverse community of developers. Twill’s simple thread-like programming model will enable many Java programmers to develop distributed applications. We believe that this simplicity will attract developers who would otherwise be discouraged by complexity, and many new use cases will emerge for the usage of YARN. Incubating Twill as an Apache project makes sense because Twill is a framework built on top of YARN, and Twill uses Apache Zookeeper, HDFS, Kafka, and other Apache software (see the External Dependencies section). = Current Status = Twill was initially developed at Continuuity under the name of Weave. The Weave codebase is currently hosted in a public repository at github.com, which will seed the Apache git repository after renaming to Twill. == Meritocracy == Our intent with this incubator proposal is to start building a diverse developer community around Twill following the Apache meritocracy model. Since Twill was initially developed in early 2013, we have had fast adoption and contributions within Continuuity. We are looking forward to new contributors. We wish to build a community based on Apache's meritocracy principles, working with those who contribute significantly to the project and welcoming them to be committers both during the incubation process and beyond. == Community == Twill is currently being used internally at Continuuity and is at the core of our products. We hope to extend our contributor base significantly and we will invite all who are interested in simplifying the development of distributed applications to participate. == Core Developers == Twill is currently being developed by five engineers at Continuuity: Terence Yim, Andreas Neumann, Gary Helmling, Poorna Chandra and Albert Shau. Terence Yim is an Apache committer for Helix, Andreas is an Apache committer and PMC member for Oozie, and Gary Helmling is an Apache committer and PMC member for HBase. Poorna Chandra and Albert Shau have made many contributions to Twill. == Alignment == The ASF is the natural choice to host the Twill project as its goal of encouraging community-driven open source projects fits with our vision for Twill. Additionally, many other projects with which we are familiar and expect Twill to integrate with, such as ZooKeeper, YARN, HDFS, log4j, and others mentioned in the External Dependencies section are Apache projects, and Twill will benefit by close proximity to them. = Known Risks = == Orphaned Products == There is very
Re: Cultivating Outstanding IP Stewards
On Nov 7, 2013, at 3:46 PM, ant elder ant.el...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 7:31 PM, Jim Jagielski j...@jagunet.com wrote: On Nov 7, 2013, at 2:13 PM, Marvin Humphrey mar...@rectangular.com wrote: The Incubator has a fundamental structural flaw: it lacks a mechanism to reward merit earned by individual podling contributors. Idea: Allow for podlings to nominate, and elect, Podling chairs which can cast Mentor-like votes. Ok, but how about we also allow there to be a Podling co-chair as well? That would make it possible for a podling with at least one active mentor to get the three binding votes needed to do a release. Or a rotating RM role...? - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: missing dev mail list for BatchEE and Sirona
Romain Manni-Bucau wrote: Hi David not sure what you mean but list are working AFAIK. We got batchee mail this morning again and I got some sirona mails yesterday The archives. Clutch gathers the mail list addresses by ensuring that the archives are available [1]. See the URL provided below in my initial email. e.g. http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/#batchee.incubator There is only the commits archives. Someone from these two projects needs to follow up with Infra until your resources are properly established. And this is why you are not receiving the report reminders. [1] We should enhance this page to explain more detail about how the set of reporting mailing list addresses are handled. I have explained it many times in email, so we should find that and add it to this doc. http://incubator.apache.org/facilities.html#reminders -David Romain Manni-Bucau Twitter: @rmannibucau Blog: http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com/ LinkedIn: http://fr.linkedin.com/in/rmannibucau Github: https://github.com/rmannibucau 2013/11/7 David Crossley cross...@apache.org: Those two reminders are intended for BatchEE and Sirona. Their email dev list archive is not yet available, so this goes to general@ list. Clutch does detect their commits lists, but not their dev lists. http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/#batchee.incubator http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/#sirona.incubator Does anyone know why? Are they missing moderators or something? -David - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [PROPOSAL] Weave for Apache Incubator
Thanks David, and the proposal is now on the wiki. On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 12:43 AM, David Crossley cross...@apache.org wrote: Andreas Neumann wrote: Thank you for the feedback, it looks like the name Twill is appealing enough. I will update the proposal with the new name. I would also like to put the proposal on the incubator wiki (at https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/TwillProposal), can you please give me the privileges? (my user name is AndreasNeumann) Added you to ContributorsGroup. -David Thanks, -Andreas. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: Cultivating Outstanding IP Stewards
On 7 November 2013 11:20, Ted Dunning ted.dunn...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 11:13 AM, Marvin Humphrey mar...@rectangular.com wrote: The Incubator has a fundamental structural flaw: it lacks a mechanism to reward merit earned by individual podling contributors. Instead, we teach people to hate the Incubator by placing their projects at the mercy of Mentors. Our Mentors care, but they don't care enough. They don't care like core developers care. Nominate these meritorious contributors as IPMC members. +1 This is exactly what I have been proposing the incubator do for a very long time. In fact I set the precedent by having two podling committers voted onto the IPMC as an experiment. That experiment proved very successful (both helped with other podlings and both are now Members of the foundation). That successful experiment should become part of the incubation process. Ross PS and yes I do see the need for me, as a mentor, of Alura to make this happen. I did discuss the projects strategy with project members a week ago. Not found the time to follow up yet but I would suggest highlighting individuals in a negative rather than positive light is not the way to encourage volunteers to find time
Re: Cultivating Outstanding IP Stewards
On 7 November 2013 11:31, Jim Jagielski j...@jagunet.com wrote: On Nov 7, 2013, at 2:13 PM, Marvin Humphrey mar...@rectangular.com wrote: The Incubator has a fundamental structural flaw: it lacks a mechanism to reward merit earned by individual podling contributors. Idea: Allow for podlings to nominate, and elect, Podling chairs which can cast Mentor-like votes. This is also an idea I floated some time ago, a few times in fact in slightly different forms trying to get traction. It's been discussed on this list a number of times and is documented at http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/IncubatorIssues2013 (e.g. 01.8 and As well as being +1 on voting Podling committers to the IPMC I am +1 on other methods of recognizing podling members. See the pTLP proposal I originally floated and hoped would be explored in the Stratos project. I'm sure there are other approaches that might work. I don't think there need be another debate about this, there just needs to be action on one or more of these activities. When an experiment proves successful then it should become part of what the IPMC does. Ross
Re: [VOTE] Accept Twill for Incubation
On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 1:04 PM, Andreas Neumann a...@apache.org wrote: The discussion about the Weave proposal has calmed. As the outcome of the discussion, we have chosen a new name for the project, Twill. I would like to call a vote for Twill to become an incubated project. The proposal is pasted below, and also available at: https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/TwillProposal Let's keep this vote open for three business days, closing the voting on Tuesday 11/12. [ ] +1 Accept Twill into the Incubator [ ] +0 Don't care. [ ] -1 Don't accept Twill because... +1 (binding) Thanks, Roman. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: missing dev mail list for BatchEE and Sirona
David Crossley wrote: Romain Manni-Bucau wrote: Hi David not sure what you mean but list are working AFAIK. We got batchee mail this morning again and I got some sirona mails yesterday The archives. Clutch gathers the mail list addresses by ensuring that the archives are available [1]. See the URL provided below in my initial email. e.g. http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/#batchee.incubator There is only the commits archives. Someone from these two projects needs to follow up with Infra until your resources are properly established. And this is why you are not receiving the report reminders. [1] We should enhance this page to explain more detail about how the set of reporting mailing list addresses are handled. I have explained it many times in email, so we should find that and add it to this doc. http://incubator.apache.org/facilities.html#reminders The Voting Status monitor (the poor neglected thing!) has also been trying to warn about this issue. See the top-left of http://incubator.apache.org/ and then the bottom table. -David Romain Manni-Bucau Twitter: @rmannibucau Blog: http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com/ LinkedIn: http://fr.linkedin.com/in/rmannibucau Github: https://github.com/rmannibucau 2013/11/7 David Crossley cross...@apache.org: Those two reminders are intended for BatchEE and Sirona. Their email dev list archive is not yet available, so this goes to general@ list. Clutch does detect their commits lists, but not their dev lists. http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/#batchee.incubator http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/#sirona.incubator Does anyone know why? Are they missing moderators or something? -David - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: missing dev mail list for BatchEE and Sirona
David, On that note, how come DeltaSpike is still listed as incubating at [1] Note the table on the 3rd bullet. [1]: http://incubator.apache.org/ On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 5:23 PM, David Crossley cross...@apache.org wrote: David Crossley wrote: Romain Manni-Bucau wrote: Hi David not sure what you mean but list are working AFAIK. We got batchee mail this morning again and I got some sirona mails yesterday The archives. Clutch gathers the mail list addresses by ensuring that the archives are available [1]. See the URL provided below in my initial email. e.g. http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/#batchee.incubator There is only the commits archives. Someone from these two projects needs to follow up with Infra until your resources are properly established. And this is why you are not receiving the report reminders. [1] We should enhance this page to explain more detail about how the set of reporting mailing list addresses are handled. I have explained it many times in email, so we should find that and add it to this doc. http://incubator.apache.org/facilities.html#reminders The Voting Status monitor (the poor neglected thing!) has also been trying to warn about this issue. See the top-left of http://incubator.apache.org/ and then the bottom table. -David Romain Manni-Bucau Twitter: @rmannibucau Blog: http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com/ LinkedIn: http://fr.linkedin.com/in/rmannibucau Github: https://github.com/rmannibucau 2013/11/7 David Crossley cross...@apache.org: Those two reminders are intended for BatchEE and Sirona. Their email dev list archive is not yet available, so this goes to general@ list. Clutch does detect their commits lists, but not their dev lists. http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/#batchee.incubator http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/#sirona.incubator Does anyone know why? Are they missing moderators or something? -David - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: missing dev mail list for BatchEE and Sirona
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-6977 On 8 November 2013 08:20, David Crossley cross...@apache.org wrote: Romain Manni-Bucau wrote: Hi David not sure what you mean but list are working AFAIK. We got batchee mail this morning again and I got some sirona mails yesterday The archives. Clutch gathers the mail list addresses by ensuring that the archives are available [1]. See the URL provided below in my initial email. e.g. http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/#batchee.incubator There is only the commits archives. Someone from these two projects needs to follow up with Infra until your resources are properly established. And this is why you are not receiving the report reminders. [1] We should enhance this page to explain more detail about how the set of reporting mailing list addresses are handled. I have explained it many times in email, so we should find that and add it to this doc. http://incubator.apache.org/facilities.html#reminders -David Romain Manni-Bucau Twitter: @rmannibucau Blog: http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com/ LinkedIn: http://fr.linkedin.com/in/rmannibucau Github: https://github.com/rmannibucau 2013/11/7 David Crossley cross...@apache.org: Those two reminders are intended for BatchEE and Sirona. Their email dev list archive is not yet available, so this goes to general@ list. Clutch does detect their commits lists, but not their dev lists. http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/#batchee.incubator http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/#sirona.incubator Does anyone know why? Are they missing moderators or something? -David - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org -- Olivier Lamy Ecetera: http://ecetera.com.au http://twitter.com/olamy | http://linkedin.com/in/olamy - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Accept Twill for Incubation
+1 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 2:19 PM, Roman Shaposhnik r...@apache.org wrote: On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 1:04 PM, Andreas Neumann a...@apache.org wrote: The discussion about the Weave proposal has calmed. As the outcome of the discussion, we have chosen a new name for the project, Twill. I would like to call a vote for Twill to become an incubated project. The proposal is pasted below, and also available at: https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/TwillProposal Let's keep this vote open for three business days, closing the voting on Tuesday 11/12. [ ] +1 Accept Twill into the Incubator [ ] +0 Don't care. [ ] -1 Don't accept Twill because... +1 (binding) Thanks, Roman. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org -- Alejandro
projects graduated need to tidy up
John D. Ament wrote: David, On that note, how come DeltaSpike is still listed as incubating at [1] Note the table on the 3rd bullet. [1]: http://incubator.apache.org/ Because these graduated projects do not tidy up after themselves. They seem to leave everything for other Incubator volunteers to clean up in their wake. Such a mess causes the Incubator tools, that try so hard to help us all, to become overloaded and then not as useful because there is too much fluff. DeltaSpike is not the only one. See the list that poor Clutch tries so desperately to highlight: http://incubator.apache.org/clutch.html#other which also attempts to directly link them to the relevant docs. The projects listing http://incubator.apache.org/projects/ also tries to encourage projects to maintain their own records. I presume that these projects will continue such behaviour as TLPs. (Sorry if i come across as frustrated in these threads. I certainly am, but trying to curb it.) -David On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 5:23 PM, David Crossley cross...@apache.org wrote: David Crossley wrote: Romain Manni-Bucau wrote: Hi David not sure what you mean but list are working AFAIK. We got batchee mail this morning again and I got some sirona mails yesterday The archives. Clutch gathers the mail list addresses by ensuring that the archives are available [1]. See the URL provided below in my initial email. e.g. http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/#batchee.incubator There is only the commits archives. Someone from these two projects needs to follow up with Infra until your resources are properly established. And this is why you are not receiving the report reminders. [1] We should enhance this page to explain more detail about how the set of reporting mailing list addresses are handled. I have explained it many times in email, so we should find that and add it to this doc. http://incubator.apache.org/facilities.html#reminders The Voting Status monitor (the poor neglected thing!) has also been trying to warn about this issue. See the top-left of http://incubator.apache.org/ and then the bottom table. -David Romain Manni-Bucau Twitter: @rmannibucau Blog: http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com/ LinkedIn: http://fr.linkedin.com/in/rmannibucau Github: https://github.com/rmannibucau 2013/11/7 David Crossley cross...@apache.org: Those two reminders are intended for BatchEE and Sirona. Their email dev list archive is not yet available, so this goes to general@ list. Clutch does detect their commits lists, but not their dev lists. http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/#batchee.incubator http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/#sirona.incubator Does anyone know why? Are they missing moderators or something? -David - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: the Voting Status monitor is overloaded
If the projects that are listed there cannot make the effort to clean up, then do not be surpised if your subsequent vote threads are overlooked. This is also not fair on the other projects, especially new ones. -David David Crossley wrote: It seems that the brilliant Voting Status monitor has fallen into disrepair. Partly due to people not properly following up with a clear RESULT tally and partly perhaps inadequacies of the monitor script. Follow the top-left link from the Incubator home: http://incubator.apache.org/ Items coloured any shade of orange need attention. We all need to care for these tools to assist us through incubation efficiently. Would people who have an interest in each open entry please review the email archives to see why your result summary tally email was not detected. Perhaps you forgot to prepend [RESULT]. Or maybe changed the email Subject too and so confused the monitor. If so then please send a followup to your VOTE thread. That will cause the monitor to clear its backlog. However, i do see some that should be marked as Resolved. So maybe the script that does this scan needs tweaks to pattern matching. The code is there for all in the top-level of Incubator SVN. http://incubator.apache.org/facilities.html#voting-status Please add more instructions to the docs: http://incubator.apache.org/facilities.html#voting-status -David - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: projects graduated need to tidy up
Well, I can appreciate the frustration. I'm willing to help clean up some of this stuff. Any special rights required to edit podlings.xml? On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 5:45 PM, David Crossley cross...@apache.org wrote: John D. Ament wrote: David, On that note, how come DeltaSpike is still listed as incubating at [1] Note the table on the 3rd bullet. [1]: http://incubator.apache.org/ Because these graduated projects do not tidy up after themselves. They seem to leave everything for other Incubator volunteers to clean up in their wake. Such a mess causes the Incubator tools, that try so hard to help us all, to become overloaded and then not as useful because there is too much fluff. DeltaSpike is not the only one. See the list that poor Clutch tries so desperately to highlight: http://incubator.apache.org/clutch.html#other which also attempts to directly link them to the relevant docs. The projects listing http://incubator.apache.org/projects/ also tries to encourage projects to maintain their own records. I presume that these projects will continue such behaviour as TLPs. (Sorry if i come across as frustrated in these threads. I certainly am, but trying to curb it.) -David On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 5:23 PM, David Crossley cross...@apache.org wrote: David Crossley wrote: Romain Manni-Bucau wrote: Hi David not sure what you mean but list are working AFAIK. We got batchee mail this morning again and I got some sirona mails yesterday The archives. Clutch gathers the mail list addresses by ensuring that the archives are available [1]. See the URL provided below in my initial email. e.g. http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/#batchee.incubator There is only the commits archives. Someone from these two projects needs to follow up with Infra until your resources are properly established. And this is why you are not receiving the report reminders. [1] We should enhance this page to explain more detail about how the set of reporting mailing list addresses are handled. I have explained it many times in email, so we should find that and add it to this doc. http://incubator.apache.org/facilities.html#reminders The Voting Status monitor (the poor neglected thing!) has also been trying to warn about this issue. See the top-left of http://incubator.apache.org/ and then the bottom table. -David Romain Manni-Bucau Twitter: @rmannibucau Blog: http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com/ LinkedIn: http://fr.linkedin.com/in/rmannibucau Github: https://github.com/rmannibucau 2013/11/7 David Crossley cross...@apache.org: Those two reminders are intended for BatchEE and Sirona. Their email dev list archive is not yet available, so this goes to general@ list. Clutch does detect their commits lists, but not their dev lists. http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/#batchee.incubator http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/#sirona.incubator Does anyone know why? Are they missing moderators or something? -David - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: projects graduated need to tidy up
John D. Ament wrote: Well, I can appreciate the frustration. I'm willing to help clean up some of this stuff. Any special rights required to edit podlings.xml? IIUC then everyone who comes through the Incubator is able: http://people.apache.org/committers-by-project.html#incubator -David On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 5:45 PM, David Crossley cross...@apache.org wrote: John D. Ament wrote: David, On that note, how come DeltaSpike is still listed as incubating at [1] Note the table on the 3rd bullet. [1]: http://incubator.apache.org/ Because these graduated projects do not tidy up after themselves. They seem to leave everything for other Incubator volunteers to clean up in their wake. Such a mess causes the Incubator tools, that try so hard to help us all, to become overloaded and then not as useful because there is too much fluff. DeltaSpike is not the only one. See the list that poor Clutch tries so desperately to highlight: http://incubator.apache.org/clutch.html#other which also attempts to directly link them to the relevant docs. The projects listing http://incubator.apache.org/projects/ also tries to encourage projects to maintain their own records. I presume that these projects will continue such behaviour as TLPs. (Sorry if i come across as frustrated in these threads. I certainly am, but trying to curb it.) -David On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 5:23 PM, David Crossley cross...@apache.org wrote: David Crossley wrote: Romain Manni-Bucau wrote: Hi David not sure what you mean but list are working AFAIK. We got batchee mail this morning again and I got some sirona mails yesterday The archives. Clutch gathers the mail list addresses by ensuring that the archives are available [1]. See the URL provided below in my initial email. e.g. http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/#batchee.incubator There is only the commits archives. Someone from these two projects needs to follow up with Infra until your resources are properly established. And this is why you are not receiving the report reminders. [1] We should enhance this page to explain more detail about how the set of reporting mailing list addresses are handled. I have explained it many times in email, so we should find that and add it to this doc. http://incubator.apache.org/facilities.html#reminders The Voting Status monitor (the poor neglected thing!) has also been trying to warn about this issue. See the top-left of http://incubator.apache.org/ and then the bottom table. -David Romain Manni-Bucau Twitter: @rmannibucau Blog: http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com/ LinkedIn: http://fr.linkedin.com/in/rmannibucau Github: https://github.com/rmannibucau 2013/11/7 David Crossley cross...@apache.org: Those two reminders are intended for BatchEE and Sirona. Their email dev list archive is not yet available, so this goes to general@ list. Clutch does detect their commits lists, but not their dev lists. http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/#batchee.incubator http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/#sirona.incubator Does anyone know why? Are they missing moderators or something? -David - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
[IMO] There are no Incubator issues
In my opinion it is always a failure of a podling when they can't get a release out of the door, or are unable to vote in new committers. The future is not something we enter. The future is something we create. --Leonard I. Sweet As a podling is waiting for its release to be approved, I sure hope they aren't holding their breath. If they have missing mentors, then prod the mentors. If the mentors don't react, prod general@ (in a polite way). If that doesn't help prod private@ or send a message to VP incubator. Is it frustrating that a first release can take a month to get to your users? Yup. But consider that if it takes a month, your release and your release process had many issues. Your next release should go much faster (you did automate the release building, did you?). Is it frustrating that nobody wants to look at your release? Yup. But ask politely: you are asking volunteers their time–time they can spend with their children, spouses, parents, friends or with their existing projects. Time they will never get back. So spend that time wisely! Outside the incubator you will find that it is still hard to get a release vetted. People get swamped in work. They move houses. Life happens. The incubator won't the last time you will struggle to get the required +3 binding votes. Outside the incubator you also need to make it happen, so show that you are able to do so! If/when a drive by review unveils some things that are wrong with a release (even minutia) go fix them, automate them and respin the release. Do the work and get the release up to standards. You got the attention, someone put the time in to review your release, the onus is on you to fix it. Do it quickly and you'll have a review that much faster. Even better if you can prove that you fixed the discovered issues (show a rat report, a diff of the archive structure, etc). Subscribe to the general@ list and read the things that are uncovered for failed releases. Fix that too in your release. This way you learn from other folks' mistakes. Fill in your board reports on time. Prod your mentors to sign off the reports. Do the trademark search. Fix the licensing. Expand your community. Self governance doesn't just mean the ability to answer messages on users@ or to have civil discourse on dev@, or the ability to commit code without having too many merge conflicts. It also means taking responsibility for your project. You are responsible for getting a release out of the door: it is your project! You are responsible for ensuring the status page is completely checked off: it is your project! You are responsible for completing a trademark search: it is your project! You are responsible for filing a board report on time: it is your project! And yes I speak from my own experience. With Wicket we were living in a slum for half a year. But finally we got our own act together to get a release out the door, to vote in new committers, to fix our status page, to fix our licensing issues etc. That is hard work and you have to spend the time and energy to complete those tasks. But when you have everything in order, you can graduate with confidence. The short guide to graduation: do the work, see it through, persevere and graduate. Martijn - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Accept Twill for Incubation
+1 (non-binding) On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 7:37 AM, Alejandro Abdelnur t...@cloudera.com wrote: +1 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 2:19 PM, Roman Shaposhnik r...@apache.org wrote: On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 1:04 PM, Andreas Neumann a...@apache.org wrote: The discussion about the Weave proposal has calmed. As the outcome of the discussion, we have chosen a new name for the project, Twill. I would like to call a vote for Twill to become an incubated project. The proposal is pasted below, and also available at: https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/TwillProposal Let's keep this vote open for three business days, closing the voting on Tuesday 11/12. [ ] +1 Accept Twill into the Incubator [ ] +0 Don't care. [ ] -1 Don't accept Twill because... +1 (binding) Thanks, Roman. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org -- Alejandro -- Best Regards, Edward J. Yoon @eddieyoon - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Accept Twill for Incubation
+1 (non-binding) On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 7:16 PM, Edward J. Yoon edwardy...@apache.orgwrote: +1 (non-binding) On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 7:37 AM, Alejandro Abdelnur t...@cloudera.com wrote: +1 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 2:19 PM, Roman Shaposhnik r...@apache.org wrote: On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 1:04 PM, Andreas Neumann a...@apache.org wrote: The discussion about the Weave proposal has calmed. As the outcome of the discussion, we have chosen a new name for the project, Twill. I would like to call a vote for Twill to become an incubated project. The proposal is pasted below, and also available at: https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/TwillProposal Let's keep this vote open for three business days, closing the voting on Tuesday 11/12. [ ] +1 Accept Twill into the Incubator [ ] +0 Don't care. [ ] -1 Don't accept Twill because... +1 (binding) Thanks, Roman. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org -- Alejandro -- Best Regards, Edward J. Yoon @eddieyoon - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Accept Twill for Incubation
+1 Doug On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 1:04 PM, Andreas Neumann a...@apache.org wrote: The discussion about the Weave proposal has calmed. As the outcome of the discussion, we have chosen a new name for the project, Twill. I would like to call a vote for Twill to become an incubated project. The proposal is pasted below, and also available at: https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/TwillProposal Let's keep this vote open for three business days, closing the voting on Tuesday 11/12. [ ] +1 Accept Twill into the Incubator [ ] +0 Don't care. [ ] -1 Don't accept Twill because... -Andreas. = Abstract = Twill is an abstraction over Apache Hadoop® YARN that reduces the complexity of developing distributed applications, allowing developers to focus more on their business logic. = Proposal = Twill is a set of libraries that reduces the complexity of developing distributed applications. It exposes the distributed capabilities of Apache Hadoop® YARN via a simple and intuitive programming model similar to Java threads. Twill also has built-in capabilities required by many distributed applications, such as real-time application logs and metrics collection, application lifecycle management, and network service discovery. = Background = Hadoop YARN is a generic cluster resource manager that supports any type of distributed application. However, YARN’s interfaces are too low level for rapid application development. It requires a great deal of boilerplate code even for a simple application, creating a high ramp up cost that can turn developers away. Twill is designed to improve this situation with a programming model that makes running distributed applications as easy as running Java threads. With the abstraction provided by Twill, applications can be executed in process threads during development and unit testing and then be deployed to a YARN cluster without any modifications. Twill also has built-in support for real-time application logs and metrics collection, delegation token renewal, application lifecycle management, and network service discovery. This greatly reduces the pain that developers face when developing, debugging, deploying and monitoring distributed applications. Twill is not a replacement for YARN, it’s a framework that operates on top of YARN. = Rationale = Developers who write YARN applications typically find themselves implementing the same (or similar) boilerplate code over and over again for every application. It makes sense to distill this common code into a reusable set of libraries that is perpetually maintained and improved by a diverse community of developers. Twill’s simple thread-like programming model will enable many Java programmers to develop distributed applications. We believe that this simplicity will attract developers who would otherwise be discouraged by complexity, and many new use cases will emerge for the usage of YARN. Incubating Twill as an Apache project makes sense because Twill is a framework built on top of YARN, and Twill uses Apache Zookeeper, HDFS, Kafka, and other Apache software (see the External Dependencies section). = Current Status = Twill was initially developed at Continuuity under the name of Weave. The Weave codebase is currently hosted in a public repository at github.com, which will seed the Apache git repository after renaming to Twill. == Meritocracy == Our intent with this incubator proposal is to start building a diverse developer community around Twill following the Apache meritocracy model. Since Twill was initially developed in early 2013, we have had fast adoption and contributions within Continuuity. We are looking forward to new contributors. We wish to build a community based on Apache's meritocracy principles, working with those who contribute significantly to the project and welcoming them to be committers both during the incubation process and beyond. == Community == Twill is currently being used internally at Continuuity and is at the core of our products. We hope to extend our contributor base significantly and we will invite all who are interested in simplifying the development of distributed applications to participate. == Core Developers == Twill is currently being developed by five engineers at Continuuity: Terence Yim, Andreas Neumann, Gary Helmling, Poorna Chandra and Albert Shau. Terence Yim is an Apache committer for Helix, Andreas is an Apache committer and PMC member for Oozie, and Gary Helmling is an Apache committer and PMC member for HBase. Poorna Chandra and Albert Shau have made many contributions to Twill. == Alignment == The ASF is the natural choice to host the Twill project as its goal of encouraging community-driven open source projects fits with our vision for Twill. Additionally, many other projects with which we are familiar and expect Twill to integrate with, such as ZooKeeper, YARN, HDFS, log4j, and others mentioned
Re: [VOTE] Accept Twill for Incubation
+1 (binding) On 8 November 2013 11:16, Edward J. Yoon edwardy...@apache.org wrote: +1 (non-binding) On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 7:37 AM, Alejandro Abdelnur t...@cloudera.com wrote: +1 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 2:19 PM, Roman Shaposhnik r...@apache.org wrote: On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 1:04 PM, Andreas Neumann a...@apache.org wrote: The discussion about the Weave proposal has calmed. As the outcome of the discussion, we have chosen a new name for the project, Twill. I would like to call a vote for Twill to become an incubated project. The proposal is pasted below, and also available at: https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/TwillProposal Let's keep this vote open for three business days, closing the voting on Tuesday 11/12. [ ] +1 Accept Twill into the Incubator [ ] +0 Don't care. [ ] -1 Don't accept Twill because... +1 (binding) Thanks, Roman. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org -- Alejandro -- Best Regards, Edward J. Yoon @eddieyoon - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org -- Olivier Lamy Ecetera: http://ecetera.com.au http://twitter.com/olamy | http://linkedin.com/in/olamy - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: projects graduated need to tidy up
Well, must be missing something. I'm 'johndament' yet I don't have write access to the trunk. On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 6:26 PM, David Crossley cross...@apache.org wrote: John D. Ament wrote: Well, I can appreciate the frustration. I'm willing to help clean up some of this stuff. Any special rights required to edit podlings.xml? IIUC then everyone who comes through the Incubator is able: http://people.apache.org/committers-by-project.html#incubator -David On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 5:45 PM, David Crossley cross...@apache.org wrote: John D. Ament wrote: David, On that note, how come DeltaSpike is still listed as incubating at [1] Note the table on the 3rd bullet. [1]: http://incubator.apache.org/ Because these graduated projects do not tidy up after themselves. They seem to leave everything for other Incubator volunteers to clean up in their wake. Such a mess causes the Incubator tools, that try so hard to help us all, to become overloaded and then not as useful because there is too much fluff. DeltaSpike is not the only one. See the list that poor Clutch tries so desperately to highlight: http://incubator.apache.org/clutch.html#other which also attempts to directly link them to the relevant docs. The projects listing http://incubator.apache.org/projects/ also tries to encourage projects to maintain their own records. I presume that these projects will continue such behaviour as TLPs. (Sorry if i come across as frustrated in these threads. I certainly am, but trying to curb it.) -David On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 5:23 PM, David Crossley cross...@apache.org wrote: David Crossley wrote: Romain Manni-Bucau wrote: Hi David not sure what you mean but list are working AFAIK. We got batchee mail this morning again and I got some sirona mails yesterday The archives. Clutch gathers the mail list addresses by ensuring that the archives are available [1]. See the URL provided below in my initial email. e.g. http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/#batchee.incubator There is only the commits archives. Someone from these two projects needs to follow up with Infra until your resources are properly established. And this is why you are not receiving the report reminders. [1] We should enhance this page to explain more detail about how the set of reporting mailing list addresses are handled. I have explained it many times in email, so we should find that and add it to this doc. http://incubator.apache.org/facilities.html#reminders The Voting Status monitor (the poor neglected thing!) has also been trying to warn about this issue. See the top-left of http://incubator.apache.org/ and then the bottom table. -David Romain Manni-Bucau Twitter: @rmannibucau Blog: http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com/ LinkedIn: http://fr.linkedin.com/in/rmannibucau Github: https://github.com/rmannibucau 2013/11/7 David Crossley cross...@apache.org: Those two reminders are intended for BatchEE and Sirona. Their email dev list archive is not yet available, so this goes to general@ list. Clutch does detect their commits lists, but not their dev lists. http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/#batchee.incubator http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/#sirona.incubator Does anyone know why? Are they missing moderators or something? -David - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: projects graduated need to tidy up
John D. Ament wrote: Well, must be missing something. I'm 'johndament' yet I don't have write access to the trunk. I used to understand svn auth, but not so sure now. Following this: http://incubator.apache.org/guides/mentor.html#who-auth-karma It seems to me that all in committers as well as all in the incubator group have rw access to incubator/public/trunk/ Do your fellow project committers also have this trouble? If so, i wonder if this identifies a problem which indicates why few people have edited podlings.xml or fix the website docs. If so, then i would be horrifed that they have not told us. -David On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 6:26 PM, David Crossley cross...@apache.org wrote: John D. Ament wrote: Well, I can appreciate the frustration. I'm willing to help clean up some of this stuff. Any special rights required to edit podlings.xml? IIUC then everyone who comes through the Incubator is able: http://people.apache.org/committers-by-project.html#incubator -David On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 5:45 PM, David Crossley cross...@apache.org wrote: John D. Ament wrote: David, On that note, how come DeltaSpike is still listed as incubating at [1] Note the table on the 3rd bullet. [1]: http://incubator.apache.org/ Because these graduated projects do not tidy up after themselves. They seem to leave everything for other Incubator volunteers to clean up in their wake. Such a mess causes the Incubator tools, that try so hard to help us all, to become overloaded and then not as useful because there is too much fluff. DeltaSpike is not the only one. See the list that poor Clutch tries so desperately to highlight: http://incubator.apache.org/clutch.html#other which also attempts to directly link them to the relevant docs. The projects listing http://incubator.apache.org/projects/ also tries to encourage projects to maintain their own records. I presume that these projects will continue such behaviour as TLPs. (Sorry if i come across as frustrated in these threads. I certainly am, but trying to curb it.) -David On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 5:23 PM, David Crossley cross...@apache.org wrote: David Crossley wrote: Romain Manni-Bucau wrote: Hi David not sure what you mean but list are working AFAIK. We got batchee mail this morning again and I got some sirona mails yesterday The archives. Clutch gathers the mail list addresses by ensuring that the archives are available [1]. See the URL provided below in my initial email. e.g. http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/#batchee.incubator There is only the commits archives. Someone from these two projects needs to follow up with Infra until your resources are properly established. And this is why you are not receiving the report reminders. [1] We should enhance this page to explain more detail about how the set of reporting mailing list addresses are handled. I have explained it many times in email, so we should find that and add it to this doc. http://incubator.apache.org/facilities.html#reminders The Voting Status monitor (the poor neglected thing!) has also been trying to warn about this issue. See the top-left of http://incubator.apache.org/ and then the bottom table. -David Romain Manni-Bucau Twitter: @rmannibucau Blog: http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com/ LinkedIn: http://fr.linkedin.com/in/rmannibucau Github: https://github.com/rmannibucau 2013/11/7 David Crossley cross...@apache.org: Those two reminders are intended for BatchEE and Sirona. Their email dev list archive is not yet available, so this goes to general@ list. Clutch does detect their commits lists, but not their dev lists. http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/#batchee.incubator http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/#sirona.incubator Does anyone know why? Are they missing moderators or something? -David - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail:
NPanday needs our attention
Hi all This month I review NPanday as Shepherd. And this project realy needs our attention! There is nearly no Mailing list activity since months. The only one who writes frequenty is the Jenkins server who told that the build is broken. The only human who talks some times on the ML is Brett Porter. They have only one mentor, Dennis Lundberg, who say nothing since a year. Report is not field (wich is no surprice) I wrote a message to the Npanday-dev and asked if there is still energy in the project or not. If there is still life in this project, than they need minimum one, better two new mentors. I can't help there, because I'm not a IPMC. If not, we should think about retiring. Just my option. Greetings Raphael
Re: [VOTE] Accept Twill for Incubation
+1 Accept Twill into the Incubator Patrick On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 1:04 PM, Andreas Neumann a...@apache.org wrote: The discussion about the Weave proposal has calmed. As the outcome of the discussion, we have chosen a new name for the project, Twill. I would like to call a vote for Twill to become an incubated project. The proposal is pasted below, and also available at: https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/TwillProposal Let's keep this vote open for three business days, closing the voting on Tuesday 11/12. [ ] +1 Accept Twill into the Incubator [ ] +0 Don't care. [ ] -1 Don't accept Twill because... -Andreas. = Abstract = Twill is an abstraction over Apache Hadoop® YARN that reduces the complexity of developing distributed applications, allowing developers to focus more on their business logic. = Proposal = Twill is a set of libraries that reduces the complexity of developing distributed applications. It exposes the distributed capabilities of Apache Hadoop® YARN via a simple and intuitive programming model similar to Java threads. Twill also has built-in capabilities required by many distributed applications, such as real-time application logs and metrics collection, application lifecycle management, and network service discovery. = Background = Hadoop YARN is a generic cluster resource manager that supports any type of distributed application. However, YARN’s interfaces are too low level for rapid application development. It requires a great deal of boilerplate code even for a simple application, creating a high ramp up cost that can turn developers away. Twill is designed to improve this situation with a programming model that makes running distributed applications as easy as running Java threads. With the abstraction provided by Twill, applications can be executed in process threads during development and unit testing and then be deployed to a YARN cluster without any modifications. Twill also has built-in support for real-time application logs and metrics collection, delegation token renewal, application lifecycle management, and network service discovery. This greatly reduces the pain that developers face when developing, debugging, deploying and monitoring distributed applications. Twill is not a replacement for YARN, it’s a framework that operates on top of YARN. = Rationale = Developers who write YARN applications typically find themselves implementing the same (or similar) boilerplate code over and over again for every application. It makes sense to distill this common code into a reusable set of libraries that is perpetually maintained and improved by a diverse community of developers. Twill’s simple thread-like programming model will enable many Java programmers to develop distributed applications. We believe that this simplicity will attract developers who would otherwise be discouraged by complexity, and many new use cases will emerge for the usage of YARN. Incubating Twill as an Apache project makes sense because Twill is a framework built on top of YARN, and Twill uses Apache Zookeeper, HDFS, Kafka, and other Apache software (see the External Dependencies section). = Current Status = Twill was initially developed at Continuuity under the name of Weave. The Weave codebase is currently hosted in a public repository at github.com, which will seed the Apache git repository after renaming to Twill. == Meritocracy == Our intent with this incubator proposal is to start building a diverse developer community around Twill following the Apache meritocracy model. Since Twill was initially developed in early 2013, we have had fast adoption and contributions within Continuuity. We are looking forward to new contributors. We wish to build a community based on Apache's meritocracy principles, working with those who contribute significantly to the project and welcoming them to be committers both during the incubation process and beyond. == Community == Twill is currently being used internally at Continuuity and is at the core of our products. We hope to extend our contributor base significantly and we will invite all who are interested in simplifying the development of distributed applications to participate. == Core Developers == Twill is currently being developed by five engineers at Continuuity: Terence Yim, Andreas Neumann, Gary Helmling, Poorna Chandra and Albert Shau. Terence Yim is an Apache committer for Helix, Andreas is an Apache committer and PMC member for Oozie, and Gary Helmling is an Apache committer and PMC member for HBase. Poorna Chandra and Albert Shau have made many contributions to Twill. == Alignment == The ASF is the natural choice to host the Twill project as its goal of encouraging community-driven open source projects fits with our vision for Twill. Additionally, many other projects with which we are familiar and expect Twill to integrate with, such as ZooKeeper, YARN,
Re: [VOTE] Accept Twill for Incubation
+1 (non-binding) On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 2:34 AM, Andreas Neumann a...@apache.org wrote: The discussion about the Weave proposal has calmed. As the outcome of the discussion, we have chosen a new name for the project, Twill. I would like to call a vote for Twill to become an incubated project. The proposal is pasted below, and also available at: https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/TwillProposal Let's keep this vote open for three business days, closing the voting on Tuesday 11/12. [ ] +1 Accept Twill into the Incubator [ ] +0 Don't care. [ ] -1 Don't accept Twill because... -Andreas. = Abstract = Twill is an abstraction over Apache Hadoop® YARN that reduces the complexity of developing distributed applications, allowing developers to focus more on their business logic. = Proposal = Twill is a set of libraries that reduces the complexity of developing distributed applications. It exposes the distributed capabilities of Apache Hadoop® YARN via a simple and intuitive programming model similar to Java threads. Twill also has built-in capabilities required by many distributed applications, such as real-time application logs and metrics collection, application lifecycle management, and network service discovery. = Background = Hadoop YARN is a generic cluster resource manager that supports any type of distributed application. However, YARN’s interfaces are too low level for rapid application development. It requires a great deal of boilerplate code even for a simple application, creating a high ramp up cost that can turn developers away. Twill is designed to improve this situation with a programming model that makes running distributed applications as easy as running Java threads. With the abstraction provided by Twill, applications can be executed in process threads during development and unit testing and then be deployed to a YARN cluster without any modifications. Twill also has built-in support for real-time application logs and metrics collection, delegation token renewal, application lifecycle management, and network service discovery. This greatly reduces the pain that developers face when developing, debugging, deploying and monitoring distributed applications. Twill is not a replacement for YARN, it’s a framework that operates on top of YARN. = Rationale = Developers who write YARN applications typically find themselves implementing the same (or similar) boilerplate code over and over again for every application. It makes sense to distill this common code into a reusable set of libraries that is perpetually maintained and improved by a diverse community of developers. Twill’s simple thread-like programming model will enable many Java programmers to develop distributed applications. We believe that this simplicity will attract developers who would otherwise be discouraged by complexity, and many new use cases will emerge for the usage of YARN. Incubating Twill as an Apache project makes sense because Twill is a framework built on top of YARN, and Twill uses Apache Zookeeper, HDFS, Kafka, and other Apache software (see the External Dependencies section). = Current Status = Twill was initially developed at Continuuity under the name of Weave. The Weave codebase is currently hosted in a public repository at github.com, which will seed the Apache git repository after renaming to Twill. == Meritocracy == Our intent with this incubator proposal is to start building a diverse developer community around Twill following the Apache meritocracy model. Since Twill was initially developed in early 2013, we have had fast adoption and contributions within Continuuity. We are looking forward to new contributors. We wish to build a community based on Apache's meritocracy principles, working with those who contribute significantly to the project and welcoming them to be committers both during the incubation process and beyond. == Community == Twill is currently being used internally at Continuuity and is at the core of our products. We hope to extend our contributor base significantly and we will invite all who are interested in simplifying the development of distributed applications to participate. == Core Developers == Twill is currently being developed by five engineers at Continuuity: Terence Yim, Andreas Neumann, Gary Helmling, Poorna Chandra and Albert Shau. Terence Yim is an Apache committer for Helix, Andreas is an Apache committer and PMC member for Oozie, and Gary Helmling is an Apache committer and PMC member for HBase. Poorna Chandra and Albert Shau have made many contributions to Twill. == Alignment == The ASF is the natural choice to host the Twill project as its goal of encouraging community-driven open source projects fits with our vision for Twill. Additionally, many other projects with which we are familiar and expect Twill to integrate with, such as ZooKeeper, YARN, HDFS, log4j, and others
Re: [VOTE] Accept Twill for Incubation
+1 (binding) On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 9:32 PM, Patrick Hunt ph...@apache.org wrote: +1 Accept Twill into the Incubator Patrick On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 1:04 PM, Andreas Neumann a...@apache.org wrote: The discussion about the Weave proposal has calmed. As the outcome of the discussion, we have chosen a new name for the project, Twill. I would like to call a vote for Twill to become an incubated project. The proposal is pasted below, and also available at: https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/TwillProposal Let's keep this vote open for three business days, closing the voting on Tuesday 11/12. [ ] +1 Accept Twill into the Incubator [ ] +0 Don't care. [ ] -1 Don't accept Twill because... -Andreas. = Abstract = Twill is an abstraction over Apache Hadoop® YARN that reduces the complexity of developing distributed applications, allowing developers to focus more on their business logic. = Proposal = Twill is a set of libraries that reduces the complexity of developing distributed applications. It exposes the distributed capabilities of Apache Hadoop® YARN via a simple and intuitive programming model similar to Java threads. Twill also has built-in capabilities required by many distributed applications, such as real-time application logs and metrics collection, application lifecycle management, and network service discovery. = Background = Hadoop YARN is a generic cluster resource manager that supports any type of distributed application. However, YARN’s interfaces are too low level for rapid application development. It requires a great deal of boilerplate code even for a simple application, creating a high ramp up cost that can turn developers away. Twill is designed to improve this situation with a programming model that makes running distributed applications as easy as running Java threads. With the abstraction provided by Twill, applications can be executed in process threads during development and unit testing and then be deployed to a YARN cluster without any modifications. Twill also has built-in support for real-time application logs and metrics collection, delegation token renewal, application lifecycle management, and network service discovery. This greatly reduces the pain that developers face when developing, debugging, deploying and monitoring distributed applications. Twill is not a replacement for YARN, it’s a framework that operates on top of YARN. = Rationale = Developers who write YARN applications typically find themselves implementing the same (or similar) boilerplate code over and over again for every application. It makes sense to distill this common code into a reusable set of libraries that is perpetually maintained and improved by a diverse community of developers. Twill’s simple thread-like programming model will enable many Java programmers to develop distributed applications. We believe that this simplicity will attract developers who would otherwise be discouraged by complexity, and many new use cases will emerge for the usage of YARN. Incubating Twill as an Apache project makes sense because Twill is a framework built on top of YARN, and Twill uses Apache Zookeeper, HDFS, Kafka, and other Apache software (see the External Dependencies section). = Current Status = Twill was initially developed at Continuuity under the name of Weave. The Weave codebase is currently hosted in a public repository at github.com, which will seed the Apache git repository after renaming to Twill. == Meritocracy == Our intent with this incubator proposal is to start building a diverse developer community around Twill following the Apache meritocracy model. Since Twill was initially developed in early 2013, we have had fast adoption and contributions within Continuuity. We are looking forward to new contributors. We wish to build a community based on Apache's meritocracy principles, working with those who contribute significantly to the project and welcoming them to be committers both during the incubation process and beyond. == Community == Twill is currently being used internally at Continuuity and is at the core of our products. We hope to extend our contributor base significantly and we will invite all who are interested in simplifying the development of distributed applications to participate. == Core Developers == Twill is currently being developed by five engineers at Continuuity: Terence Yim, Andreas Neumann, Gary Helmling, Poorna Chandra and Albert Shau. Terence Yim is an Apache committer for Helix, Andreas is an Apache committer and PMC member for Oozie, and Gary Helmling is an Apache committer and PMC member for HBase. Poorna Chandra and Albert Shau have made many contributions to Twill. == Alignment == The ASF is the natural choice to host the Twill project as its goal
Re: Cultivating Outstanding IP Stewards
On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 11:40 AM, Jim Jagielski j...@jagunet.com wrote: As soon as you step off your soapbox, be sure to provide some suggestions... When an individual makes major contributions to the incubation of a podling -- particularly in the areas of legal and community development -- they should be rewarded with a binding vote. Meritocracy should apply to podlings as it does to TLPs. By expressly dangling the incentive of a binding vote in front of podling core contributors, we will motivate more of them to learn The Apache Way more thoroughly and to become outstanding IP stewards. The presence of these individuals will then compensate for the natural phenomenon of Mentor attrition, and the problem of IPMC release vote scarcity will diminish. Concretely, there are several possible implementations. There's this pTLP variant: 1. Start with a Board resolution establishing a pTLP PMC seeded with IPMC members. 2. Vote podling contributors onto the PMC as they demonstrate merit. 3. When there are enough PMC members, consider graduation. A more incremental approach, suggested upthread, is to start voting select podling contributors onto the IPMC more aggressively. However, there are a few drawbacks: * With rare exceptions, podling contributors have generally been voted onto the IPMC to replace missing Mentors. Rewarding excellence proactively is a completely different mentality. For example, under this model it would have been *wrong* that CloudStack made it through to graduation without landing at least two of its stellar contributors on the IPMC. * Enlarging the IPMC makes a lot of people uncomfortable. I'm leery that increasing the pace too much may provoke controversy and too many cooks squabbling. * The private@incubator list would get a lot noisier. Then there's the suggestion of electing Podling Chairs, possibly augmented with Co-Chairs. Granting extra privileges to a solo leader seems somewhat less Apache-like than rewarding merit on an individual basis. However, in practice having a podling Chair would solve *other* problems in addition to mitigating the problem of vote scarcity, and it would probably be the least controversial option to implement. Would Podling Chairs join the IPMC, presumably voted in by the podling's Mentors? If not, how would we grant them a binding vote? Also, if a new person gets voted in as Podling Chair, are we OK with the podling's increasing IPMC representation? (I think that could have the desirable side effect of encouraging project founders to give up the Podling Chair position for the greater good of the podling.) Marvin Humphrey - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: Cultivating Outstanding IP Stewards
On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 11:29 AM, Jim Jagielski j...@jagunet.com wrote: Certainly this is being addressed and fixed in the current 1.0.1 release thread... Indeed. So why is something 2 months old such a bee in your bonnet right now? I chose to highlight the Allura situation because it illustrates that IPMC release vote scarcity can strike your podling at any time regardless of how virtuous and healthy it is. If it can happen to Allura, a podling with fabulous contributors and outrageously qualified Mentors, it can happen to anyone. I could have instead cited other lengthy release votes: VXQuery (over a month now and still waiting), ODF Toolkit (20 days), Droids (probably the all-time record holder), Bloodhound (so frustrating that Brane coded up the voting monitor), ManifoldCF... but none of those podlings boasted Allura's all-star Mentor lineup. The point was to pick a podling with Mentors whose dedication to the ASF was unassailable (AWOL Mentors don't attend Board meetings!) because then nobody could blame the delay on insufficient Mentor dedication. I don't think it's a bad thing that podling core developers are inherently more invested in their projects than Mentors -- it's just a fact of life that we ought to accommodate ourselves to. Vote scarcity is not the fault of any one Mentor, or any group of Mentors -- it's just a phenomenon which is *guaranteed* to happen some of the time because the Incubator is structurally flawed. Still, because my point was awkwardly crafted, I wound up singling out the Allura team in a negative context. I apologize for my clumsiness. Marvin Humphrey - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [IMO] There are no Incubator issues
On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 3:34 PM, Martijn Dashorst martijn.dasho...@gmail.com wrote: The short guide to graduation: do the work, see it through, persevere and graduate. I think your email contained lots of excellent advice for podlings now in incubation. I dream of something better, though. Just because you and I had to walk to school barefoot in the snow uphill both ways doesn't mean that our children should have to. :) Marvin Humphrey - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [IMO] There are no Incubator issues
A month.. aha. :-) 08.11.2013 3:35 пользователь Martijn Dashorst martijn.dasho...@gmail.com написал: In my opinion it is always a failure of a podling when they can't get a release out of the door, or are unable to vote in new committers. The future is not something we enter. The future is something we create. --Leonard I. Sweet As a podling is waiting for its release to be approved, I sure hope they aren't holding their breath. If they have missing mentors, then prod the mentors. If the mentors don't react, prod general@ (in a polite way). If that doesn't help prod private@ or send a message to VP incubator. Is it frustrating that a first release can take a month to get to your users? Yup. But consider that if it takes a month, your release and your release process had many issues. Your next release should go much faster (you did automate the release building, did you?). Is it frustrating that nobody wants to look at your release? Yup. But ask politely: you are asking volunteers their time–time they can spend with their children, spouses, parents, friends or with their existing projects. Time they will never get back. So spend that time wisely! Outside the incubator you will find that it is still hard to get a release vetted. People get swamped in work. They move houses. Life happens. The incubator won't the last time you will struggle to get the required +3 binding votes. Outside the incubator you also need to make it happen, so show that you are able to do so! If/when a drive by review unveils some things that are wrong with a release (even minutia) go fix them, automate them and respin the release. Do the work and get the release up to standards. You got the attention, someone put the time in to review your release, the onus is on you to fix it. Do it quickly and you'll have a review that much faster. Even better if you can prove that you fixed the discovered issues (show a rat report, a diff of the archive structure, etc). Subscribe to the general@ list and read the things that are uncovered for failed releases. Fix that too in your release. This way you learn from other folks' mistakes. Fill in your board reports on time. Prod your mentors to sign off the reports. Do the trademark search. Fix the licensing. Expand your community. Self governance doesn't just mean the ability to answer messages on users@ or to have civil discourse on dev@, or the ability to commit code without having too many merge conflicts. It also means taking responsibility for your project. You are responsible for getting a release out of the door: it is your project! You are responsible for ensuring the status page is completely checked off: it is your project! You are responsible for completing a trademark search: it is your project! You are responsible for filing a board report on time: it is your project! And yes I speak from my own experience. With Wicket we were living in a slum for half a year. But finally we got our own act together to get a release out the door, to vote in new committers, to fix our status page, to fix our licensing issues etc. That is hard work and you have to spend the time and energy to complete those tasks. But when you have everything in order, you can graduate with confidence. The short guide to graduation: do the work, see it through, persevere and graduate. Martijn - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [IMO] There are no Incubator issues
Martijn Dashorst wrote: ... Well said. Hooray for common-sense and taking ownership. We must remember that we are all individuals. The ASF enables us to do what we want. We each need to take the initiative. -David - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: Cultivating Outstanding IP Stewards
I have one (hopefully) simple question for those more familiar with the ASF\s bylaws/etc. As I understand it, the board has delegated responsibility for the incubator, and thus incubator podlings, to the Incubator PMC and its members. Thus, it is only members of the Incubator PMC that have the ability to vote. This much is straight-forward. So, the question is, what options does the Incubator PMC have in terms of further delegating responsibility? Can the Incubator PMC delegate (some) responsibility to people who are not themselves incubator PMC members? To do so, does the Incubator PMC need to inform the board of the change of composition of 'sub-committees'? My thought is that if we can clarify what is legally possible, we will be better placed to find the appropriate model for the incubator that fits within those legal/bylaw bounds. Upayavira On Fri, Nov 8, 2013, at 06:47 AM, Marvin Humphrey wrote: On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 11:29 AM, Jim Jagielski j...@jagunet.com wrote: Certainly this is being addressed and fixed in the current 1.0.1 release thread... Indeed. So why is something 2 months old such a bee in your bonnet right now? I chose to highlight the Allura situation because it illustrates that IPMC release vote scarcity can strike your podling at any time regardless of how virtuous and healthy it is. If it can happen to Allura, a podling with fabulous contributors and outrageously qualified Mentors, it can happen to anyone. I could have instead cited other lengthy release votes: VXQuery (over a month now and still waiting), ODF Toolkit (20 days), Droids (probably the all-time record holder), Bloodhound (so frustrating that Brane coded up the voting monitor), ManifoldCF... but none of those podlings boasted Allura's all-star Mentor lineup. The point was to pick a podling with Mentors whose dedication to the ASF was unassailable (AWOL Mentors don't attend Board meetings!) because then nobody could blame the delay on insufficient Mentor dedication. I don't think it's a bad thing that podling core developers are inherently more invested in their projects than Mentors -- it's just a fact of life that we ought to accommodate ourselves to. Vote scarcity is not the fault of any one Mentor, or any group of Mentors -- it's just a phenomenon which is *guaranteed* to happen some of the time because the Incubator is structurally flawed. Still, because my point was awkwardly crafted, I wound up singling out the Allura team in a negative context. I apologize for my clumsiness. Marvin Humphrey - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
who are your Mentors
I reckon that these lists are not complete. Would people from each podling review the generated lists at: http://incubator.apache.org/projects/ a list of all current podlings with Description and Mentors, etc. http://incubator.apache.org/clutch.html#mentors all people listed and their associated podlings. Remember that these are all generated from content/podlings.xml If projects feel that they need additional Mentors, then please arrange for that, and then keep that file up-to-date. Please. Also see http://incubator.apache.org/facilities.html -David - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: Cultivating Outstanding IP Stewards
Upayavira wrote: I have one (hopefully) simple question for those more familiar with the ASF\s bylaws/etc. As I understand it, the board has delegated responsibility for the incubator, and thus incubator podlings, to the Incubator PMC and its members. Thus, it is only members of the Incubator PMC that have the ability to vote. This much is straight-forward. So, the question is, what options does the Incubator PMC have in terms of further delegating responsibility? Can the Incubator PMC delegate (some) responsibility to people who are not themselves incubator PMC members? To do so, does the Incubator PMC need to inform the board of the change of composition of 'sub-committees'? My thought is that if we can clarify what is legally possible, we will be better placed to find the appropriate model for the incubator that fits within those legal/bylaw bounds. I was wondering the same. This seems to enable such: RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Incubator PMC be and hereby is tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended to encourage open development and increased participation in the Apache Incubator Project. http://incubator.apache.org/official/resolution.html -David Upayavira On Fri, Nov 8, 2013, at 06:47 AM, Marvin Humphrey wrote: On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 11:29 AM, Jim Jagielski j...@jagunet.com wrote: Certainly this is being addressed and fixed in the current 1.0.1 release thread... Indeed. So why is something 2 months old such a bee in your bonnet right now? I chose to highlight the Allura situation because it illustrates that IPMC release vote scarcity can strike your podling at any time regardless of how virtuous and healthy it is. If it can happen to Allura, a podling with fabulous contributors and outrageously qualified Mentors, it can happen to anyone. I could have instead cited other lengthy release votes: VXQuery (over a month now and still waiting), ODF Toolkit (20 days), Droids (probably the all-time record holder), Bloodhound (so frustrating that Brane coded up the voting monitor), ManifoldCF... but none of those podlings boasted Allura's all-star Mentor lineup. The point was to pick a podling with Mentors whose dedication to the ASF was unassailable (AWOL Mentors don't attend Board meetings!) because then nobody could blame the delay on insufficient Mentor dedication. I don't think it's a bad thing that podling core developers are inherently more invested in their projects than Mentors -- it's just a fact of life that we ought to accommodate ourselves to. Vote scarcity is not the fault of any one Mentor, or any group of Mentors -- it's just a phenomenon which is *guaranteed* to happen some of the time because the Incubator is structurally flawed. Still, because my point was awkwardly crafted, I wound up singling out the Allura team in a negative context. I apologize for my clumsiness. Marvin Humphrey - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: Cultivating Outstanding IP Stewards
David Crossley wrote: Upayavira wrote: I have one (hopefully) simple question for those more familiar with the ASF\s bylaws/etc. As I understand it, the board has delegated responsibility for the incubator, and thus incubator podlings, to the Incubator PMC and its members. Thus, it is only members of the Incubator PMC that have the ability to vote. This much is straight-forward. So, the question is, what options does the Incubator PMC have in terms of further delegating responsibility? Can the Incubator PMC delegate (some) responsibility to people who are not themselves incubator PMC members? To do so, does the Incubator PMC need to inform the board of the change of composition of 'sub-committees'? My thought is that if we can clarify what is legally possible, we will be better placed to find the appropriate model for the incubator that fits within those legal/bylaw bounds. I was wondering the same. This seems to enable such: RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Incubator PMC be and hereby is tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended to encourage open development and increased participation in the Apache Incubator Project. http://incubator.apache.org/official/resolution.html Oooh, i overlooked the word initial. -David - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
