Where is Cloudscape?
Hm... wanted to check this code out of CVS but can't find it :-/ Maybe I'm jumping the gun a bit... I can be patient ;) http://infoworld.com/article/04/08/03/HNclouscape_1.html Kevin -- Please reply using PGP. http://peerfear.org/pubkey.asc NewsMonster - http://www.newsmonster.org/ Kevin A. Burton, Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965 AIM/YIM - sfburtonator, Web - http://peerfear.org/ GPG fingerprint: 5FB2 F3E2 760E 70A8 6174 D393 E84D 8D04 99F1 4412 IRC - freenode.net #infoanarchy | #p2p-hackers | #newsmonster - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Jakarta commons karma and passwd reset.
I've been trying to get my passwd reset for my [EMAIL PROTECTED] account for the last week now. Rumor has it that I can just email [EMAIL PROTECTED] but that seems to be an alias for /dev/null I forgot the passwd for that account and I've since lost my ssh keys... Whatever verification you want to do for my account is fine... call my cell if you want ;) Need a DNA sample? You got it! I also need access to the commons sandbox... Anyway... Squeaky wheel gets the grease... -- Please reply using PGP: http://peerfear.org/pubkey.asc NewsMonster - http://www.newsmonster.org/ Dean in 2004! - http://blog.deanforamerica.com/ Kevin A. Burton, Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965 AIM/YIM - sfburtonator, Web - http://peerfear.org/ GPG fingerprint: 4D20 40A0 C734 307E C7B4 DCAA 0303 3AC5 BD9D 7C4D IRC - freenode.net #infoanarchy | #p2p-hackers | #newsmonster begin:vcard fn:Kevin Burton n:Burton;Kevin email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] x-mozilla-html:TRUE version:2.1 end:vcard signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
FeedParser API for Java (source available)
Some of you may remember my previous post about our FeedParser RSS/Atom parser implementation for Java. Everything looks good on our end and we've got legal approval. They just needed to review the licenses... Anyway... I've blogged this and the source as well as a JXR reference is up. Please give me feedback. Try not to focus too much on code quality as much as API. The source will be changing before 1.0 as I clean some things up. can I seem some +1s? ;) http://www.peerfear.org/rss/permalink/2004/01/11/FeedParserAPIForJavaSourceAvailable/ -- NewsMonster - http://www.newsmonster.org/ Dean in 2004! - http://blog.deanforamerica.com/ Kevin A. Burton, Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965 AIM/YIM - sfburtonator, Web - http://peerfear.org/ GPG fingerprint: 4D20 40A0 C734 307E C7B4 DCAA 0303 3AC5 BD9D 7C4D IRC - freenode.net #infoanarchy | #p2p-hackers | #newsmonster - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FeedParser - RSS/Atom parser/serializer contribution to Jakarta.
Danny Angus wrote: 1. Find out if Apache has any interest in this code. I think I do :-) Awesome... 2. Find out what legal documents my company has to process for this to be adopted. We have to have our lawyers review this. I believe that there is a software donation "grant" document for this, but I'm not the guy to ask abot it. 3. Figure out what legal documents *I* have to sign ... That'd just be a Contributors Licence Agreement (CLA) Details of both are linked from here http://www.apache.org/licenses/#clas It's in the corporate contributor agreement. Unfortunately I don't think I can make the source available until I have our lawyers take a look at #2 so if I can't get an answer to #1 until that point I understand. My 2c is.. If you haven't read it, read this first http://jakarta.apache.org/site/newproject.html I've read that a long time ago... Couldn't find it again though. Most have been hiding from me. Thanks... yeah. This is for a new subproject and the FeedParser isn't ready for that just yet. I want to put this into the commons until we're ready for 1.0 then move it to xml.apache.org or jakarta as we see fit. I guess you have because you're proposing commons which we might assume to have a lower bar. However I'd also advise you seriously to consider incubator.apache.org, ws.apache.org or xml.apache.org, simply because I believe that they may be a more appropriate home. ok... will take a look Kevin -- NewsMonster - http://www.newsmonster.org/ Kevin A. Burton, Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965 AIM - sfburtonator, Web - http://www.peerfear.org/ GPG fingerprint: 4D20 40A0 C734 307E C7B4 DCAA 0303 3AC5 BD9D 7C4D IRC - freenode.net #infoanarchy | #p2p-hackers | #newsmonster
Re: FeedParser - RSS/Atom parser/serializer contribution to Jakarta.
Henri Yandell wrote: Topic came up for me recently and there were 3 open source prior arts that I found: http://weblogs.flamefew.net/bayard/archives/000789.html#000789 Informa: LGPL rss4j : Demands Xerces. It would be nice to use JAXP here. I think that's what we are using now. Need to verify. I took a look at RSS4J. It's another DOM binding for RSS. Doesnt' look like it supports RSS 2.0 and the API will need to be changed to support Atom. I firmly believe that DOM is the wrong approach here and doesn't allow for RSS module extension. http://www.churchillobjects.com/c/13005.html rsslibj: Hard to find exml dependency. http://enigmastation.com/rsslibj/ Another DOM API... I ended up using the third option. OK... It would be interesting to find out how many people REALLY want to do DOM. I wouldn't have a large objection to incorporating DOM-style support as long as the SAX-style API could be maintained. I really think it's a LOT more flexible than a DOM approach. Kevin -- NewsMonster - http://www.newsmonster.org/ Kevin A. Burton, Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965 AIM - sfburtonator, Web - http://www.peerfear.org/ GPG fingerprint: 4D20 40A0 C734 307E C7B4 DCAA 0303 3AC5 BD9D 7C4D IRC - freenode.net #infoanarchy | #p2p-hackers | #newsmonster - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FeedParser - RSS/Atom parser/serializer contribution to Jakarta.
David Sean Taylor wrote: I'd be glad to review it and put it into Jetspeed to improve on its RSS support (if you are interested in it going into Jetspeed) I would be happy to see this used in Jetspeed (I'm the creator of the Jetspeed project btw... in another life) . I want this to remain a separate API so that it can be used within a number of projects including some work I'm doing now and in NewsMonster 2.0 Commons also has an RSS package: http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/digester/api/org/apache/commons/ digester/rss/package-summary.html Could you briefly explain how the FeedParser stands out over the commons implementation... I saw that ... it seems to take a vastly different approach to RSS than in FeedParser. I didn't comment because it seemed very different from a generic RSS API but I will of course take a look at it now. Kevin -- NewsMonster - http://www.newsmonster.org/ Kevin A. Burton, Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965 AIM - sfburtonator, Web - http://www.peerfear.org/ GPG fingerprint: 4D20 40A0 C734 307E C7B4 DCAA 0303 3AC5 BD9D 7C4D IRC - freenode.net #infoanarchy | #p2p-hackers | #newsmonster - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
FeedParser - RSS/Atom parser/serializer contribution to Jakarta.
My company wants to contribute the following API to Jakarta. http://www.peerfear.org/rss/permalink/2003/11/10/FeedParserAnRSSParserAPIForJava (you can make comments here or in my weblog... either way) I've contributed a lot of work to Apache before (Tomcat, Turbine, Jetspeed, Alexandria, etc.) so I'm pretty familiar with the process. The API is still young so I think the ideal spot would be in Jakarta commons. What I want to do right now is: 1. Find out if Apache has any interest in this code. 2. Find out what legal documents my company has to process for this to be adopted. We have to have our lawyers review this. 3. Figure out what legal documents *I* have to sign ... Right now we are working on two products that will use this code... one of which will be NewsMonster 2.0 ( http://newsmonster.org ). My plans for release would be to make the contribution to the ASF and then release a 0.5 release in about a month. Unfortunately I don't think I can make the source available until I have our lawyers take a look at #2 so if I can't get an answer to #1 until that point I understand. Thanks! Kevin -- NewsMonster - http://www.newsmonster.org/ Kevin A. Burton, Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965 AIM - sfburtonator, Web - http://www.peerfear.org/ GPG fingerprint: 4D20 40A0 C734 307E C7B4 DCAA 0303 3AC5 BD9D 7C4D IRC - freenode.net #infoanarchy | #p2p-hackers | #newsmonster - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Subproject Proposal - crossdb
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jon Scott Stevens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > If anything, crossdb is something that is a few generations behind Torque in > terms of functionality and design. > > http://jakarta.apache.org/turbine/torque/ Yeah... I was going to point this out. > Funny how all the rage recently seems to be creating these OR tools. It is a problem people can understand and is easy to become fascinated with. Similar to they way everyone in the world has created their own text editor. Kevin - -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965 Jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED], Web - http://relativity.yi.org/ The truest test of civilization, culture, and dignity is character, not clothing. -- Mahatma Gandhi -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt iD8DBQE8xlhQAwM6xb2dfE0RAh7jAKCYgo8yhODZeobfHAc1OxJL+T9UyACffSHN CuB0YbEB5SaXo0XboapTcLE= =v0A0 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: JASon 0.5 proposal
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jon Scott Stevens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > on 4/9/02 10:40 AM, "Alexandre Brillant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > For the difference with turbine : JASon is not a servlet engine, but a > > servlet engine is a service. > > Why is it that people think Turbine is a servlet engine? I though Turbine was a EJB server! Kevin :) - -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965 Jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED], Web - http://relativity.yi.org/ Calm your fury, oh mighty lord. Whatever you may be, god or demon, please leave us in peace. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt iD8DBQE8s4DkAwM6xb2dfE0RAimZAJ0RKbneeBXa+6c5X0fq8wZLEd638wCgk06M fBwBEdHUlMxNCN2QNyT0R4A= =5Gro -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: FW: Typo in webpage title
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Pier Fumagalli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: There's a small typo in the body of your email. Not acked... ^ NAK :) > Not acked... > > Pier > > -- Forwarded Message > > From: Ernst de Haan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Organization: FreeBSD Project > > Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 20:22:43 +0200 > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: Typo in webpage title > > > > Hi, > > > > There's a small typo in the title of > > http://jakarta.apache.org/tomcat/news.html > > > > The page is titled: "The Jakarta Site - New and Status" > > ^ 's' missing :) - -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965 Jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED], Web - http://relativity.yi.org/ Any programming language is at its best before it is implemented and used. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt iD8DBQE8q4gHAwM6xb2dfE0RAs3HAKCAmjDKtaeBkcyuPCXb4P79KfDfwQCfbjXB GHKVZ8WOA18QUBIGP2qslMk= =8wxb -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: [VOTE] Switching development to C#
Marc <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Having become convinced by Andy that C# and .NET are the wave of the future, > I'm proposing that we switch poi development to C#. > > To the Jakarta community at large: will this affect our status as a Jakarta > project? I mean, I can see where a lot of projects are eventually going to > follow this same path ... Why stop at Poi!? I suggest that we move all of Jakarta over to C# (April fools... just in case this doesn't get archived correctly.) -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965 Jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED], Web - http://relativity.yi.org/ rm -rf /bin/laden -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Keynote announcement
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jason Hunter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Was anyone watching the JavaOne keynote this morning? We successfully > made the announcement about Apache and Sun coming to an agreement. The > audience applauded as I announced every agreement point! Jason... good work! It is really appreciated! Politics can be a real pain sometimes but this is a good example of how it i worth it! Thanks for all your hard time! I'll buy you a beer next time we bump into each other at a conference! :) (and any other Apache hackers too!) Kevin - -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965 Jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED], Web - http://relativity.yi.org/ The art of progress is to preserve order amid change and to preserve change amid order. - Alfred North Whitehead, Science and the Modern World -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt iD8DBQE8oPg7AwM6xb2dfE0RAm+jAJ4jpzLsTH2SHTZwv4CIPOH3KdV3yQCdH126 u71zT/9m6xe+UGoEjJwpjeM= =rIwt -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: JCP Program Chair responds to Apache Software Foundation
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jon Scott Stevens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > This news is *huge*. We got what we wanted. Of course it is huge: http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/03/22/2059242&mode=thread&tid=108 Hm... *really* cool. I guess I am still skeptical though. I want to see this in action Kevin - -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965 Jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED], Web - http://relativity.yi.org/ It is error alone which needs support of the government. Truth can stand by itself. --Thomas Jefferson -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt iD8DBQE8m6TVAwM6xb2dfE0RAig6AKCKcPHRm0abfl/dc9Uc3YrtTDNnhACgmUSr hNe1YHLu1qH46UlrGaP3Ze0= =YlsC -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: [OT] JCP rant
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Peter Donald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 06:47, Ceki Gülcü wrote: > > All very good points. The question on my mind is whether these > > problems can be corrected in the future by opening up the (JCP) Java > > Community Process or whether the closed-like-a-clamp is a symptom > > of a more serious and profound disease - my suggested name would > > be "clampitis." > > Actually I don't think that this is a huge problem in most JSRs. Theres is > basically thrre types of information shared on a JSR. > 1. Information to share between EG members (most restrictive) > 2. Information to share between EG members and EG members host organization > (ie sun employees can talk to Sun EG member) > 3. Information that can be shared with public > > Due to the structure of most JSRs (3) is not actually made available to the > public and I would like that to change but I am not sure it would be good for > java to remove (1) and (2). I think a lot of people within the ASF are fans of Open Communication. Privacy is important... but within development issues I think we should lean strongly to keeping (3) as the majority. If you want to do 1 and 2... use private email. > Why are they needed? Well some companys wont take part in the discussions > unless there (2). For instance I would hate to see Sony not adopt java in its > next playstation due to this - and I think they would not have joined JSR134 > if they had to openly reveal "proprietary" IP. Sure... I understand... I also totally appreciate this. However it should not be used as an excuse to limit (3)... which I believe it currently is. > It is also useful for some people who publish papers for a living (ie > academics and researchers at big companys) as they usually can not freely > distribute papers until given the thumbs up by publishers. However as an EG > member I would prefer to see a relevent paper earlier than sooner. Yes... then I would suggest that they DON'T participate in the JCP or Open Source community until they can publish... Kevin - -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965 Jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED], Web - http://relativity.yi.org/ The philosophy of this column is simple: if you have good language skills, you will be respected and admired; whereas if you clearly have no clue about grammar or vocabulary, you could become president of the United States. --Dave Barry, writing in the Miami Herald. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt iD8DBQE8msXWAwM6xb2dfE0RApofAJ9FRlg149l4AfKoTK9CUzIEnSwrvQCfazf7 gsf61kOj7+dkyUq+VVziBi4= =RdPM -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: [OT] JCP rant
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 "Daniel F. Savarese" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > The problem with the JCP is not merely the licensing. It is also the basic > JSR procedures. The objective of a new API is to meet some set of developer > requirements in a particular application domain. If you don't consult with > your users, the target developer group, you probably won't develop a useful > result. Preach on brother! The other issue is the way packaging is done! They really need to drop this "shove everything in the JDK mentality". There is no reason JAXM needs to be within your JDK. Just choose a decent license and ship a .jar. There are tons of classloader issues with Tomcat 4.x and JDK 1.4 because JAXP is within the JDK. You have versioning issues - can't ship a new library because you can't ship a new JDK for 18 months. Competition issues - can't use your JCP library within another VM (GCJ), etc, etc, etc. So... screw JAXM. I would much rather link to Axis directly and bypass their API. Things need to change, drastically and soon... Kevin - -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965 Jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED], Web - http://relativity.yi.org/ Linux. The *only* Operating System you will ever need. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt iD8DBQE8msTRAwM6xb2dfE0RAkjRAJ9BJDOdrNug6GFIvS8umWccvGNo2QCgnLcR satnVJFx5p6DqJjSlAdewo4= =E349 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
LICENSE in .jar files
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jus thinking out loud. Would it be a good protocol to put a LICENSE file in .jar files under META-INF ? Specifically with the JCP stuff and some JAR files that come from SUN and can't be redistributed. Thanks. Comments appreciated. Kevin - -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965 Jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED], Web - http://relativity.yi.org/ Intellectual 'property' is to property as fool's gold is to gold. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt iD8DBQE8kVfdAwM6xb2dfE0RAkcTAJ4xq6iKaeOvkHSM50qn2lf8+gqbtACeNE/R ez/sHMZsOJAji0LEemjJuCo= =/aRp -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Base64 anywhere ?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Paul Libbrecht <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Hi Jakarta group, > > Since a while the XML-RPC project of Apache is looking for Base64 > coder/decoder. Currently one under LGPL is used but there must certainly be > some class in Jakarta project that has such a class. There is also one in Batik, JXTA, Catalina, Apache SOAP, Apache Xerces, Axis, Commons, Talon and Freenet. And yes... it is good having a high performance Javadoc index :) http://relativity.yi.org/jde-docindex/ (self plug) Kevin - -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965 Jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED], Web - http://relativity.yi.org/ The dawn is rising on a new day! -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt iD8DBQE8kSyBAwM6xb2dfE0RAqkCAJ9lRbpwkWWAfVFnUUO/H6HkYHwr7wCgkeoa u/W7ksoYpo0Ej4wGHvv49s8= =DP62 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Borland, Fujitsu, HP, IONA, Nokia, and Oracle voted with Sun tolock Open Source out of Java.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Pier Fumagalli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > "GOMEZ Henri" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > So who should decide of next standards and apis for oss ? > > w3c, > > Good candidate... Too bad that they don't own the word "JAVA". > > > ASF, > > We don't do API, we do products FWIW... This major shift should be a thing to > be seriously considered by the members I am not sure it should happen within the ASF (but maybe I am wrong). For example the ASF wouldn't start developing hardware... it would be a huge leap. I think developing standards would be a similar leap... am I wrong? > > exolab, > > After a long association with them I hope... NOT! I was going to say the same thing ;) > Why not? That's all the Foundation is fighting for ATM... Complaining about > things like that will not change the world in which we are living in... What > the Foundation is doing is _right_, and thanks to the invaluable contributions > of people such as Jason Hunter, James Duncan Davidson, Sam Ruby, Chuck Murcho > we can say that we're slowly getting there... > > Complaining on a mailing list doesn't help, maybe suggesting being propositive > and active on another might... It is easy to get frustrated... especially when dealing with these HUGE organizations. Kind of like moving a mountain. ... I do think activism is important. Keep up the good work guys! Lets keep the pressure on! :) Kevin - -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965 Jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED], Web - http://relativity.yi.org/ Don't try to be a great man, just be a man. Let history make its judgements. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt iD8DBQE8kQVgAwM6xb2dfE0RAnIYAJ9QhPVkeMr2vS0YttAvp45xsVmTbQCgvB98 WW12LfLLcx28d483hyOJf94= =Y4gN -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Borland, Fujitsu, HP, IONA, Nokia, and Oracle voted with Sun tolock Open Source out of Java.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 "GOMEZ Henri" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Did they decive us ? May be ? > > May be it's really time to see if the next standards (for oss) should came > from jcp, or from more open groups ? Hm... a Java Open Source Process (JOSP) It is very interesting. The Open Source process hasn't really worked in the past to build standards. I think they have done a good job at building standard implementations but not the standard themselves. The big companies (Microsoft, IBM, SUN, etc) have been the ones creating the standards. IETF, JCP, W3C, etc are all good examples. It would be interesting to see if the Open Source process could work for *creating* standards. At the very minimum it woul be interesting... > I was just thinking about log4j case, which is an excellent piece of code but > wasn't use in latest jdk. ... : > But you know what ? People use log4j because it came from Apache and is > synonim of quality. Yes... and it is portable. SUN really is brain damaged when it comes to their philosophy of shoving everything the JDK. JDK 1.7 will probably be around 100M or so :) > So who should decide of next standards and apis for oss ? w3c, ASF, exolab, > enhydra but certainly no more jcp. Well.. not unless they change. Kevin - -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965 Jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED], Web - http://relativity.yi.org/ And the beast shall come forth surrounded by a roiling cloud of vengeance. The house of the unbelievers shall be razed and they shall be scorched to the earth. Their tags shall blink until the end of days. - from The Book of Mozilla, 12:10 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt iD8DBQE8kQR9AwM6xb2dfE0RAslbAJ4/bRJHQYRoYp2sgDLEt9laL+SHhQCgvuRo sMaFF4DEGbOrZtlimxvXlLw= =ABlZ -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Borland, Fujitsu, HP, IONA, Nokia, and Oracle voted with Sun to lock Open Source out of Java.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jon Scott Stevens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > I like the title. :-) > > <http://jakarta.apache.org/site/news.html#0313.1> I like it... somehow I think this reminds me of Charleton Heston saying "Wer'e mad as hell, and we're not going to take it any more!" :) - -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965 Jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED], Web - http://relativity.yi.org/ Linux is both Open Source and Free Software, Java is neither! -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt iD8DBQE8kQLOAwM6xb2dfE0RAiTgAKC50F30s3YoGqhX3nb4svCtagcmUwCfdac+ XEM8uh5xA0qmMSyprGNCTOs= =sJET -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: the story continues... JSPA community draft ballot results
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 "Steven Noels" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Sad, but true: > > http://jcp.org/jsr/results/99-7-1.jsp I demand a recount! :) OK... this is strange: > On 11-Mar-2002, Caldera voted YES with the following comment: > Caldera agree with a lot of the concerns expressed by Apache. We would like to > see more to be done to protect the interests of open source providers. Did Caldera understand what they voted for? If they agree with Apache why did they vote yes? Kevin - -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965 Jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED], Web - http://relativity.yi.org/ Learn from other people's mistakes, you don't have time to make your own. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt iD8DBQE8j+Q3AwM6xb2dfE0RAsR4AJ4l845WxXM8X8Vn83rCvnGrlGWTRgCfbMGu hOiZLoxfiqM/8bx2Kpkt2Ho= =kYgJ -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jon Scott Stevens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > on 2/5/02 5:16 PM, "Kevin A. Burton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > OK... when you get SUN to Open Source Java you can walk around with your head > > high... Until then any effort that contributes to this is a Good Thing in my > > book. > > Kevin, I know this is hard for you to believe, but I know for a fact that some > of your previous efforts actually had a seriously negative impact on Sun's > decision to eventually open source Java. For example, the license poll that > you did a while back actually made a huge mess behind the scenes. Would be nice to know what actually happened. Feedback is very important. My philosophy on the subject is that being open has its rewards that outweigh any advantages you would get from being closed. If anything from the poll scared them off this would have been come out in the future anyway. > I'm not saying that things I have done have been perfect and neither is > Stefano's track record. But honestly, Stefano has done a hell of a lot more > with regards to getting Sun to open source *anything* than you have. hell... I am willing to give Stefano the benefit of the doubt. I am not perfect, but I don't want to argue about who has done more to help out Java. I don't really care. I just want to move forward and improve on the issue without any personal attacks... I don't know what happened but it seems Stefano started attacking me... did I say anything wrong?.. I don't want to fight... I want to move forward. > What have you done? As far as I can tell, you created the mess called Jetspeed > which you disappeared on and abandoned and you have spouted your mouth off Oh come on jon. In your perspective maybe. We have talked about this in the past. If you want to hear what the real scoop is.. come to codecon. http://www.codecon.org/schedule.html I am speaking about Reptile on Sunday... I did make some mistakes WRT Jetspeed ... I am not perfect. > around here for the last couple years without actually contributing anything. I am contributing to the Open Source community in other areas... just not Apache areas. > Hmmm...that isn't something worth putting on the resume, now is it? ... it IS on my resume! > > One person would look bad. 1000 people out from of Moscone would ge a good > > thing. > > No, it wouldn't really make a difference. The Sun execs would simply laugh and > enjoy all the press... > > "Hey look at all those angry developers! They must really love Java! Cool! > That will get us some fun press!" ... maybe. I am not saying that this is the answer. I just see that a lot of us complain (myself included) but never organize around a solution. I created the list to help with the solution... that is all. > > My point was that a lot of just spend a lot of time arguing about this stuff > > and don't try to correct anything in "the real world". > > However, the way that you have been going about things doesn't help anyone or > anything. Please try a new approach. ... any suggestions? Kevin - -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965 Jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED], Web - http://relativity.yi.org/ Intellectual 'property' is to property as fool's gold is to gold. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt iD8DBQE8YKANAwM6xb2dfE0RAsp9AKCS85vR+owk1E2wlDcfr1liAlzrwwCfcgd1 Ez6U7ZchYID0taHHh4WNKJ0= =EGuY -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Stefano Mazzocchi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > "Kevin A. Burton" wrote: > > > Dont't sit back and do nothing. Sending emails to this list is just a waste > > of your time. > > Try to imagine what makes Sun officials worry more: > > - the guy who pushed java technology in the ASF since '97 and was so efficient > with his java-lover friends that the ASF has more than 70% of its code written > in Java and now thinks seriously at abandoning the boat because java technical > evolution can't stand the rate of community evolution What is your problem!? OK... when you get SUN to Open Source Java you can walk around with your head high... Until then any effort that contributes to this is a Good Thing in my book. > - the java enthusiasts One person would look bad. 1000 people out from of Moscone would ge a good thing. > who is going to sit in front of the moscone center in order to change Sun > official's minds about Java licensing saying that they lied to him because > instead of giving him 100% of their intellectual property, they gave him just > 90% and now they are keeping the 10% for them > > Now tell me: who is wasting his time? Hm... are you saying that protesting is a waste of time? It is one of the efforts that sent Dmitry back to Russia ... My point was that a lot of just spend a lot of time arguing about this stuff and don't try to correct anything in "the real world". Kevin - -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965 Jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED], Web - http://relativity.yi.org/ Acts performed with a delusive mind produce painful results -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt iD8DBQE8YIPqAwM6xb2dfE0RAhN0AJ9K/s7ixmYrtWjI3EznjOlauMq7BgCeKLJx KHLUFFp6j7QonfqABgd5A2w= =7aDo -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: AW: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 "Juergen Fey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Hi, > > Java proves to be a reliable technology but some political questions are still > open and some others - not all - are getting answered in the wrong direction. > > There could be a chance to discuss these things during the JavaOne next month. > Perhaps at Jon`s new place which is not too far away from the Moscone center? I would be game for this. There are plenty of other places to talk if Jon doesn't want to host one. I think it is a good idea. Kevin - -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965 Jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED], Web - http://relativity.yi.org/ The IQ of Evolution is directly proportional to the square of the IQ of the organisms it created. -- me -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt iD8DBQE8YFtQAwM6xb2dfE0RApGiAJ9vrcuErsRckF7uZ2ePd8++QFGQ1QCgkRSg pnFqX7tbNSn3PtU4aPUAnkA= =10E1 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 "James Strachan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > on 2/4/02 8:29 PM, "Aaron Smuts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > Could someone explain the issue, especially with reference to JSR107 > > > (JCACHE). > > > > > > Aaron > > > > Yes. I'm on JSR 107 and I seem to be the only really vocal person there > > about my needs. Brian Goetz cares as well, but isn't nearly as vocal. > > > > Simple: > > > > JSR107 is being created under a non-open source license and Oracle will own > > the rights to the specification of the JSR. I'm complaining about this > > wildly. > > I've asked Jerry the Oracle guy several times (off-list) and he claims that > one day Oracle will commit to releasing an open source reference > implementation - but I'm still waiting for an official announcement - and its > been 5 months and counting... If you believe this you are very naive. SUN had said for years and years that Java would be pushed through a standards committee. At the time I didn't believe them but didn't care as much about open standards. Now I know better. Kevin - -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965 Jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED], Web - http://relativity.yi.org/ bounce. bounce. bounce. bounce. bounce. bounce. bounce. bounce. bounce. bounce. bounce. bounce. bounce. bounce. bounce. - Fatboy Slim -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt iD8DBQE8YFsMAwM6xb2dfE0RAsPNAJ9+QbwCW+Q2H7CkdMM/JpF7vqCBDwCfT5Ll koz5UCtcRFRLWcz3OJl1h5A= =+ZPs -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Stefano Mazzocchi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Jon Scott Stevens wrote: > > > > on 2/4/02 1:58 PM, "Kevin A. Burton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > I created the java-is-dead mailing list to address these issues. > > > > > > Note that this mailing list is a place to help fix things. The java-is-dead > > > mailing list is for people who love Java but are *very* concerned. > > > > The only people who can fix these things is Sun. This mailing list sounds > > like a black hole and these types of politics usually don't work against Sun > > (neither do online polls)... > > > > The way to get Sun's attention is to corner them into a hole and then pound > > on their head for a few years. Then, if you are lucky, you might get them to > > concede on an issue or two so that only you will be happy. > > In case you didn't notice, Sun might go out of business as soon as a couple of > years: hah... yeah... right. How much money do they have in the bank? Don't expect SUN to disappear in any less time than a decade. Even if they did EVERYTHING wrong from here on out they would still be around. Same with Microsoft and Oracle. > if even Oracle says that bigiron is dead, Google and yahoo run on huge though > inexpensive clusters of pc clones, Dual G4 machines are starting to beat the > pants out of Sun boxes and run unix where the hell is Sun going to earn > its money from? > > yep, you guessed it right: Java. It is a valid point. I don't know the numbers though. I would expect at least 1/2 of Java's base to go away if C# sharpens up and looks better while Java is more proprietary. Could they make enought money to justify keeping Java proprietary? Maybe... Enough money for SUN? Probably not. Look what they did for OpenOffice. They should do this for Java and take another stab at Microsoft. > > Now: is Sun going to change this because Mr. Burtonator cries on his own > mail list? yeah, sure. > > Unless he has a few 10 billion dollars to invest in Sun to open up java. I don't need 10 billion dollars. 100 people collaborating towards this effort would be enough. Look what the Free Dmitry community did. We DON'T have to sit around and let other people control our destiny. We can take a stand! now. We can send (snail) mail to SUN executives, we can gather outside JavaOne and protest. SUN has lied to us. Whether this is deliberate or not is another story. I want to move on. The community is what is important. Look what we did at Apache? No imagine a fraction of the people here working to get SUN to release Java. > Sun can't start selling JDK's, otherwise people will switch to .NET (or OSS > clones of it, see Ximian MONO), but it sure can stop improve on it (after 1.4 > is out) and give away for free *normal* java implementations and sell > better/faster/more-scalable JVMs (which is what M$ will be doing with .NET) You can always make the argument that legacy systems will still need support. These are also the same people that will NOT migrate to an Open Source Java implementation even if it comes from SUN. > You can be sure Sun has a lot to learn from M$ on the marketing-software side > of things. That is an understatement! > Where does OSS stand? We have been *used* to make java solid. Aren't you mad about this? Don't you want to change things? Dont't sit back and do nothing. Sending emails to this list is just a waste of your time. There are a bunch of things we could do about this. I don't know about you but I am not smart enough to figure out the best approach. Should we protest JavaOne? Should we create an online petition for SUN to free Java? Should we petition Apache to take a stand on this? Should we draw a line in the sand? Should we start a letter writing campaign? I don't know. I do know that the future is not set. There is no fate but what we make for ourselves. > Now things are changed: they think they don't need us anymore because Java is > a commercial reality. That's the truth and you'd better learn it fast. It is? If Java is a commercial reality I have yet to see if. A Java commercial reality will have to compete with a C# commercial reality. Microsoft has a monopoly and our governent (US) isn't going to do anything about it. A proprietary Java (even if SUN wants to make money) is going to loose against C#. We just have to convince SUN of this. They aren't stupid... they are a bunch of smart guys over there. > Anyway people: be ready to jump off the train, we are approaching the > cliff at full speed. I think we can agree that things are starting to get very uncomfortable. I don
Re: [ANN] Apache's Position on the JSPA (was: Re: [Fwd: cvs commit: jakarta-site2/xdocs index.xml])
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jon Scott Stevens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > on 1/30/02 4:15 PM, "Andrew C. Oliver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > My only issue and I guess this is directed more at you Jon, is it > > doesn't give me a clear idea about "what we want". Can you give me a > > good idea and I'll be glad to submit a patch to that effect. It just > > seems like we should be asking for something and being specific. > > > > -Andy > > Here is "what we want": > > <http://jakarta.apache.org/site/jspa-position.html> > > Kudo's to Jason Hunter for writing it. I read it last night from CVS. I just wanted to say that I am really proud and excited to see Apache stand up for something! Lets keep up the good work! :) Kevin - -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965 Jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED], Web - http://relativity.yi.org/ These are dangerous days. To say what you feel is to dig your own grave. Remember what I told you. If they hated me, they will hate you. - Sinead O'Connor -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt iD8DBQE8YEJgAwM6xb2dfE0RAobWAJ0WAcvgbh8ly/cSRL07n8a2ltro4gCbBSQV yseYSQ3XUeztafUaIG+qZwk= =/8// -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Peter Donald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Tue, 5 Feb 2002 11:38, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: > > > Are you upset at the way Java is being handled by SUN? > > > > > > Do you feel lied to about the fact that SUN is still keeping Java > > > proprietary even after they promised us for *years* that it would be > > > standardized? > > > > > > Are you looking towards .NET/C# as an alternative but still optimistic > > > about Java? > > > > Heck no. .NET/c# why would I want to use an even more proprietary thing > > to get back at SUN? Heck no. ... hm.. this discussion could be on the list... buy anyway. > You sure it is more proprietary? I believe that C# and the CLR is less proprietary than Java. It has been pushed through a standards committee and there are Open Source implementations coming up around the corner. > I believe our PMC head actually sits as head on one of the standardization > efforts for C#s core libraries. With the recent change to BSDL/MIT licensing > with one of the opensource runtimes things are starting to look interesting. Yeah... I have to admit C# and the CLR looks good. I think that if Java were Open Source we could combine it with the CLR (or at least some of the concepts) to get the best worlds. That won't happen unless Java is Open Source. > Technically there are things about C#/CLR/etc that are far superior to Java > (much better meta-data support, no JNI pain, a nicer GUI setup, support for C > based languages, etc) and theres also things that suck (hard to optimize > bytecode, crapola linking model, etc). yeah... and if Java were Open Source we could see that some of the good things from the CLR were adopted within Java. > *if* there was an open, semi-stable platform then I am sure a fair chunk of > people would flock to it - especially if it is under a nice license like MIT > that both the BSD and GPL people seem to like. yeah... I TOTALLY agree. I just don't want to have to throw every Jakarta project away just because SUN can't see the light. > I don't think Sun will lose on high-end or the embedded device market but > everywhere else I think is debatable ;) Hm... .NET is being ported to BSD and Linux. I don't know about that. > A lot of people I know who are java advocates have seriously looked at > swapping to C# - at least for the desktop. Given how weak the C# runtime is > now (at least compared to java) this I find interesting. I haven't looked at the C# gui stuff. I still don't think there is a solid GUI framework unless you use C++/QT/KDE > If JDK1.5 comes out in time with all its very kool features I think Java still > has a fighting chance ... maybe. It would have a fighting chance. JavaOne is in march and I am hoping that SUN is planning on having an announcement then. Of course I was expecting an announcement last year and the year before that and they never came. :) > If the J2SE was opensourced then it would almost win by default. However Sun > is nowhere near as agile as MS - still too much of a slow hardware company - > so they will almost certainly fall down in that area. The Open Source community would PASTE Microsoft if we could develop the JDK with our own rules. > It will be interesting to see how IBM reacts. They have some damn fine VM > people there, if they were to go the C# path and bring along all the Linux > peeps then who knows ;) maybe... without some type of accepted community or steward I think that everyone would just blow it off. GCJ looks cool but if everyone things Java is dead then there won't be any use for it. ... this stuff really makes me ill :( Kevin - -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965 Jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED], Web - http://relativity.yi.org/ There are 6 billion people living on this planet, 5.4 billion have not yet chosen an Operating System -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt iD8DBQE8X6MGAwM6xb2dfE0RArxpAJ42QSOiAUJxQK2l5waIKc7VzuPdywCfYVGy 5r+IKu62NuZiSIuHVfOG1PE= =yg9S -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jon Scott Stevens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > on 2/4/02 9:53 PM, "Aaron Smuts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Hmmn. So what is the significance? What does this mean for > > implementations? Could Oracle charge a fee, if they wanted, or prevent > > others from implementing it? What are the worse case scenarios? What > > is the purpose (said, actual . . .) of the JSR? > > > > Aaron > > If only I wasn't under an NDA and could forward the proposed license to you... Yeah... it is a good thing that the JCP is: " an open organization of international Java developers and licensees whose charter is to develop and revise Java technology" ... doesn't sound very open here... Kevin - -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965 Jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED], Web - http://relativity.yi.org/ The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. -Albert Einstein -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt iD8DBQE8X6BHAwM6xb2dfE0RAnipAJ0fDlOtditKepufEqjYfu0PdVTlxACcDCTI 7vWrtPCDiu4XedXaveUXNnk= =kC9t -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > But before doing that, they could try to just put some importants API like > javamail, jta, jndi, jdbc2ext back to OSS as they do for servlets. Nota, that > these APIs are mandatory to build and use the ASF Tomcat 4.0, which make me > and others pretty bad. Yes... I couldn't agree more. SUN takes all the NEW CODE and make it proprietary and continually bloats the JDK. Thanks guys ! :( > Frankly Sun should learn from IBM model and start to sell services instead of > just software. ... SUN and "learn" shouldn't be in the same sentence :) Kevin - -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965 Jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED], Web - http://relativity.yi.org/ Copyright exists to improve science not to preserve the rights of the author. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt iD8DBQE8X0fLAwM6xb2dfE0RAkmfAJ4mo4r7qRS6rRXjr8Kflffv1ZO7ZgCeN7Nt +rHGEPJ4ceN2c/qYlJJc008= =aqyl -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jon Scott Stevens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > on 2/4/02 1:58 PM, "Kevin A. Burton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I created the java-is-dead mailing list to address these issues. > > > > Note that this mailing list is a place to help fix things. The java-is-dead > > mailing list is for people who love Java but are *very* concerned. > > The only people who can fix these things is Sun. This mailing list sounds like > a black hole and these types of politics usually don't work against Sun > (neither do online polls)... > > The way to get Sun's attention is to corner them into a hole and then pound on > their head for a few years. Then, if you are lucky, you might get them to > concede on an issue or two so that only you will be happy. Well there really isn't any place to organize an effort like this... AKA java-is-dead :) ... and yes I agree. SUN is VERY stubborn even when faced with an inevitable fact of life. I just don't want to scrap all the Java work I have done over the last few years just because SUN managers can't pull their heads out of the sand :( Kevin - -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965 Jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED], Web - http://relativity.yi.org/ It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees! - Emiliano Zapata -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt iD8DBQE8X0drAwM6xb2dfE0RAqtzAJ9w+C3rv7MGZD609xu6qfBGmNUr3wCfX/PB xOmgptKLTBkKFIJkppPMqrI= =NdDd -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Java is dead... but it could still be saved!
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Sorry for the X-post. I just created a new mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can sign up here: http://entropy.yi.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/java-is-dead ... Are you upset at the way Java is being handled by SUN? Do you feel lied to about the fact that SUN is still keeping Java proprietary even after they promised us for *years* that it would be standardized? Are you looking towards .NET/C# as an alternative but still optimistic about Java? Do you *hate* the JCP? Are you sick of the fact that SUN keeps throwing new features into the VM and bloating it beyond belief? Do you want SUN to Open Source Java? Do you want to collaborate around other Open Source Java implementations? ... I created the java-is-dead mailing list to address these issues. Note that this mailing list is a place to help fix things. The java-is-dead mailing list is for people who love Java but are *very* concerned. Please feel free to forward this email or link to the mailing list from your site. Kevin - -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965 Jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED], Web - http://relativity.yi.org/ It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees! - Emiliano Zapata -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt iD8DBQE8XwPpAwM6xb2dfE0RAs5MAKCjopim62GAoeZSKxcPK8l5+VkJTwCbBVoC 5uMWqzV1IrVYFdcZjk8YcQ8= =Vgaj -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: a tool for java api documentation
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jon Scott Stevens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > on 2/3/02 10:12 PM, "Eitan Suez" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > if you have the time, i would be very interested in > > (and would very much appreciate) your thoughts > > and feedback on dbdoc. > > > > Sincerely, > > Eitan Suez > > Programmer > Other than that, cool software...I don't see a link to download the source > code though...:-( Until you provide that link, it is useless to advertise it > here as it makes you look kind of funny...:-) I think that this is Javadoc with modifications. The Javadoc license doesn't allow one to release the modified source code. PS... thanks SUN! :( Kevin - -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965 Jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED], Web - http://relativity.yi.org/ The dawn is rising on a new day! -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt iD8DBQE8XvsTAwM6xb2dfE0RApmeAJ4r7oxA0D1b87qI0KroLGYuP2FccwCcCh3W QlCil3OnJG4twUTL/niKfI0= =YpYa -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Jakarta PMC Nomination - Rejection
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jon Scott Stevens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > on 2/3/02 2:00 PM, "Kevin A. Burton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Did you guys check out codecon - http://www.codecon.org > > > > It is going to be held at the DNA Lounge (and I will be speaking about > > Reptile)... > > Yea, that sounds like a fun event... you should come... it is only $40.00 compare that to the $1500.00 for the Oreilly P2P conference and it is a no-brainer :) > > hm... how long before Jon hosts an ApacheCon ??? ;) > > I would definitely be into hosting an after party...:-) Why wait until ApacheCon. How about an Apache party now! :) Kevin - -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965 Jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED], Web - http://relativity.yi.org/ How are you gentleman? -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt iD8DBQE8Xf6QAwM6xb2dfE0RAiQgAJ9QgFoCfrjrPBMcAJjEXBp/7t5S/QCcCTvf IdQkXp03UAadPpG/zjUobN8= =imZh -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Jakarta PMC Nomination - Rejection
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jon Scott Stevens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > on 2/1/02 3:46 PM, "Remy Maucherat" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Another famous OSS guy did that also (http://www.jwz.org/). > > Are you guys starting a trend ? :) > > Funny you should mention jwz. His club is right down the street from mine > (http://www.dnalounge.com/). We are on the same block in SF and are > essentially neighbors. I spent some time talking with one of his managers > (Alexis) last night. Lots of fun indeed. :-) Did you guys check out codecon - http://www.codecon.org It is going to be held at the DNA Lounge (and I will be speaking about Reptile)... hm... how long before Jon hosts an ApacheCon ??? ;) Anyway, good luck Jon. Keep us updated... I will try to spend a lot of money at your new club! Kevin - -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965 Jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED], Web - http://relativity.yi.org/ Not only in computer science, but also across all scientific fields, skeptical analysis of technical claims made by others, and the presentation of detailed evidence to support such analysis, is the heart of the scientific method. - Princeton University Professor Edward Felten on the DMCA -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt iD8DBQE8XbL6AwM6xb2dfE0RAsgOAJoDrNKDQFS3BCG1sQGYqe3c6J2j9wCffvOe lpgjyvx3qzAGydmTx8+PZlc= =uSis -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: new home page
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jon Scott Stevens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > on 1/6/02 11:33 AM, "Andrew C. Oliver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I know you're supposed to be silent when you agree with stuff > > Who said that? Yes... not with Apache Voting Rules... Kevin - -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965 Jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED], Web - http://relativity.yi.org/ ... Whereas it is essential, if man is not to be compelled to have recourse, as a last resort, to rebellion against tyranny and oppression, that human rights should be protected by the rule of law... -- Universal Declaration of Human Rights, United Nations, 1948 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt iD8DBQE8ONGCAwM6xb2dfE0RArrcAJsE1kASK4Tl5eeEyiWo6eSopFDVfgCfZqEi BZ1PRFK6sAi0BB6k2KXmwOI= =jeA8 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: cvs commit: jakarta-alexandria/proposal/gump/site/xdocs ant.xml
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Jon Scott Stevens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> on 1/2/02 6:34 AM, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > +if (runtime != null)
> > +depend.setAttribute("runtime", runtime.getValue());
>
> "All Java Language source code in the repository must be written in
> conformance to the "Code Conventions for the Java Programming Language as
> published by Sun."
>
> <http://java.sun.com/docs/codeconv/html/CodeConventions.doc6.html#449>
I find this VERY ironic/stupid (you pick)
if (condition) //AVOID! THIS OMITS THE BRACES {}!
statement;
^^^
So why the HECK did SUN even allow the language to support this?
Personally I have recently been smitten by one line if statements :).
Kevin
- --
Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] )
Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965
Jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED], Web - http://relativity.yi.org/
Yes. My Mom runs Linux!
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt
iD8DBQE8M7DtAwM6xb2dfE0RArdZAJ9ilgF4bFr1AAoPjwpcM1ge7SDm0QCfaCwo
dwUnFTIecwJPxr9LUTL8vnY=
=qSZw
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Re: The Jakarta/Apache/XML Open Source poll
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Kevin A. Burton) writes: > (sorry for the cross post) > > I came up with this idea a while back but wasn't able to implement it until now. > There are a LOT of really smart people in this community (Apache). It should be > possible to harness all the opinion here and get a general consensus on a lot of > issues. OK. After posting it dawned on me that we needed a page with all the results. http://relativity.yi.org/website/vote/jakarta/answers.shtml Kevin - -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965 Jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED], Web - http://relativity.yi.org/ Hiroshima 1945, Czernobyl 1986, Windows 2000 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt iD8DBQE8MQpmAwM6xb2dfE0RAq1LAKCTBO+3G0JeweQ4kAoP4k5LFqfdDwCfRm93 glFokFzyqkyAVt6y8fhPxOw= =rqve -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
The Jakarta/Apache/XML Open Source poll
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 (sorry for the cross post) I came up with this idea a while back but wasn't able to implement it until now. There are a LOT of really smart people in this community (Apache). It should be possible to harness all the opinion here and get a general consensus on a lot of issues. To that end, I created (drum roll please) the 2002 Unofficial Apache Open Source Poll. Basically you can vote on your favorite issues. Examples would include: What Java Virtual Machine do you use? What do you think of .NET? What do you think of Microsoft? What do you think of C#? When will SUN Open Source Java? I have tried to keep all the answers fairly balanced. If you have any suggestions let me know. If you want to add any more questions, just send me email. It is really easy to add them. http://relativity.yi.org/website/vote/jakarta Of course the standard disclaimer. None of this is statistically valid... etc. Also, please do not link to this URL. I wanted this to stay local to Apache. Have fun. Kevin - -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965 Jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED], Web - http://relativity.yi.org/ Stuff to read: <http://www.toad.com/gnu/whatswrong.html> What's Wrong with Copy Protection, by John Gilmore -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt iD8DBQE8MPvgAwM6xb2dfE0RAssIAKC5Ixb4EvAb2fV/p38oUvBiaPJLUwCfUfYd D5Mq7bum4OHWhhH8vLokWyw= =azcx -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Jakarta Newsletter
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jon Scott Stevens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > on 12/27/01 1:03 PM, "Kevin A. Burton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Why don't you just use an RSS aggregator. Then you can do a search for > > 'jakarta' and create your own newsletter. > > > > Kevin > > How does that solve the problem*? > > *the problem is volunteers, not technology. 'you' is putting me or someone > else in the place of the volunteer. Unless of course you are > volunteering... in that case, 'you' can use an RSS aggregator. It doesn't solve it 100%... but it solves it 90%. Reptile provides some good stats. I have about 20 subscriptions, doing a search for 'Linux' found 13 articles. Granted that Jakarta found 0. I am working on improving it so that she fetches all channels. Right now that are about 4700 channels. If you factor in that out of 4700 channels there are about 15 articles per channel at any point in time, that is 70,500 articles. There is a high probability that there will be a Jakarta article in there :) Kevin - -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965 Jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED], Web - http://relativity.yi.org/ Linux. First SCO, then SUN, then Microsoft, then world liberation. Not necessarily in that order. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt iD8DBQE8K5OUAwM6xb2dfE0RAow0AJ40PNJZNet+tcLZIOgtqToxo371+wCgp8Ku pWqIao4KIJ7KeOLbmXLQuBg= =BVL6 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Jakarta Newsletter
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jon Scott Stevens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Hi Rob, > > It is indeed a great idea. However, the two editors given credit at the bottom > of the url you posted are Sun employee's who get paid to do the job so they > don't really count as 'volunteers'. > > The Jakarta project has plenty of great minds and thus great ideas. What we > are lacking is great volunteers. Everyone is too busy bitching about what an > asshole I am. Yes. the Newsletter would just be gossip about jon! :) > So, my suggestion is that if you would like to see this done, you start > working on it yourself...not worrying about how bad an editor you are...and > just post *something*. That will encourage others to help you edit and create > it (it is hard to complain about something without helping out). Discussing > how things should be done won't get you anywhere. > > This is the same tactic that I used when I created Anakia [1] which is now > used to create most of the Jakarta websites as well as www.apache.org and > httpd.apache.org. It isn't the most perfect tool [2], but it does the job > well, people adopted it quickly and the bitching about Styleweb (the > previous tool) stopped. > > thanks! Why don't you just use an RSS aggregator. Then you can do a search for 'jakarta' and create your own newsletter. Kevin - -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965 Jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED], Web - http://relativity.yi.org/ Evolution has an IQ only slightly greater than 0 which is enough to beat entropy and create wonderful designs given enough time. -- Ray Kurzweil -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt iD8DBQE8K4y5AwM6xb2dfE0RAhGqAJ46HzWKR5zUjs+izVQRkpZPoPtxyACfev6k 69N1NckucLDEhL2wD1EUQx0= =tHyg -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: [ANN] xml-commons-which: new Which utility to replace EnvironmentCheck
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > Just a quick announcement of a new tool: org.apache.env.Which, in the > xml-commons project. > > Which is a General environment checking and version finding service. > Which is the command line interface to the org.apache.env package. Simply > put, it provides a simplistic check of a user's actual environment for > debugging and product support purposes by detecting the specific versions > of commonly installed classes in the environment. Just a humble suggestion. Under *NIX the 'which' command is used for finding the binary that would be executed if you were to execute the given command. Ex: %shell%> which ls /bin/ls I would suggest renaming this to something more descriptive, maybe WhichEnv. I do realize it is in a package though. I usually re-alias my java commands to become the classname minus the package, therefore which and Which would get confusing :) Kevin - -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965 Jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED], Web - http://relativity.yi.org/ Those willing to give up a little liberty for a little security deserve neither security nor liberty. -- Benjamin Franklin -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt iD8DBQE8JEVAAwM6xb2dfE0RAskAAJ4yx9Jk/EkbwT8D+0rNnkm9pVOj1ACfb417 ors4JuOvxim6a/4XvL67wRQ= =6+y+ -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Why is the Tomcat so frisky???
James Duncan Davidson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On 12/15/01 20:31, "Kevin A. Burton - burtonator" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > What is the deal with that Tomcat logo? > > I know it is from the old Tomcat product even while it is back at SUN. > > Bzzzt. Wrong answer. The logo was paid for by Sun, but happened after the > Tomcat source code was dropped to the public. Are you sure? I was using Tomcat before it came over to Apache and it did have that Tomcat logo... or something very similar. Anyone have an old .zip or tar :) > It's a leg. At no point during the design did any of us (2 males and one > female) associate the 3rd leg with the implement that you have now associated > it with. It was until your post that I saw that for the first time in the > almost three years it has been since we did that logo. That is funny! I saw it a year ago after ApacheCon on the mug you gave me... I was just staring at it and it hit me... that is not a leg! I either figured it was created by a TOTAL genius or just a random fluke! ... but a funny random fluke! :) > But now that you point it out.. You sick sick man. :) ... ug. Kevin -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965 Jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED], Web - http://relativity.yi.org/ Linux is both Open Source and Free Software, Java is neither! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Using JPDA to dump the state of a running VM.
OK. I create this project in the past http://javacore.sourceforge.net/ but never added JPDA support because I didn't really have a JVM to play with. JPDA in JDK 1.2.2 sucked but in 1.4 it is pretty solid. It would be nice to have a project that could: - connect to a running VM over IP - suspend it dump the current state including threads, locals, source (if available), etc. - save the output to an XML file for later debugging. This could be a win for Apache because it could enable us to accept 'core dumps' from running server VMs so that we could debug them outside of their original environment. Thoughts? -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965 Jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED], Web - http://relativity.yi.org/ The future is not set. There is no fate but what we make for ourselves. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Coding style addition
"Craig R. McClanahan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On 15 Dec 2001, Kevin A. Burton - burtonator wrote: > > > > > Perhaps. > > > > It might be a good idea to have a default recommendation or a global standard. > > > > ... anyway... > > > > The most entertaining flamewars I've ever seen are atempts to gain > consensus on whether to use tabs or not, and then how many characters an > indent is :-). I think this is strong advantage of python... indentation is important. It made me sick at first but really makes sense in the long term. Kevin -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965 Jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED], Web - http://relativity.yi.org/ The unconstitutional government, for the corporation, by the corporation, must be overthrown! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Coding style addition
Has this been accepted as psuedo standard across Jakarta? http://jakarta.apache.org/turbine/common/code-standards.html I agree with 90% of it. Also... I have noticed that a lot of code isn't formated to column 80. A lot of people aren't even trying! :( What do people think of this as an addition? Kevin -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965 Jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED], Web - http://relativity.yi.org/ We can plant a house, we can build a tree -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Coding style addition
Jason van Zyl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On 12/15/01 4:41 PM, "Kevin A. Burton - burtonator" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > > Has this been accepted as psuedo standard across Jakarta? > > No, each project has it's own coding style. There's no Jakarta wide standard. Which is why I said "pseudo standard" > > http://jakarta.apache.org/turbine/common/code-standards.html > > > > I agree with 90% of it. > > > > Also... I have noticed that a lot of code isn't formated to column 80. A lot > > of > > people aren't even trying! :( > > > > What do people think of this as an addition? > > I think allowing each project to define what is acceptable is the way it's > working now and it's probably best to leave it that way. Perhaps. It might be a good idea to have a default recommendation or a global standard. ... anyway... Kevin -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965 Jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED], Web - http://relativity.yi.org/ And the beast shall be made legion. Its numbers shall be increased a thousand thousand fold. The din of a million keyboards like unto a great storm shall cover the earth, and the followers of Mammon shall tremble. - from The Book of Mozilla, 3:31 (Red Letter Edition) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Why is the Tomcat so frisky???
http://jakarta.apache.org/tomcat/ OK. What is the deal with that Tomcat logo? I know it is from the old Tomcat product even while it is back at SUN. Who was the artist? Very cool that this was snuck past SUN marketing. I mean it is a 2D picture correct? Why does the kat have 3 legs? The point is that the 3rd black leg isn't really a leg.. right? I mean Tomcats are really well known for one thing. If you have seen one roaming your neighborhood at 3AM. Anyway... would be interesting to hear about how this got created. Kevin -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965 Jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED], Web - http://relativity.yi.org/ Never apply a Star Trek solution to a Babylon 5 problem. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Coding style addition
Jon Scott Stevens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > on 12/15/01 2:20 PM, "Jason van Zyl" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I think allowing each project to define what is acceptable is the way it's > > working now and it's probably best to leave it that way. > > +1 > > I can see what Kevin is saying by establishing a 'baseline' though I think > that getting agreement about what that baseline is will be more discussion > than it is worth...I think it is easier to simply point at FooProject and say > that BarProject is going to emulate FooProject... Good point... I think the Turbine docs are a step towards this. Having a column, line wrap would be nice though. Kevin -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965 Jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED], Web - http://relativity.yi.org/ 'We feel that there are real opportunities with evil, and that when evil is integrated it into our next generation of Windows products consumers will [Prince of Darkness] appreciate evil on their desktop,' said Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates. 'Businesses haven't been able to fully realize their evil potential. With evil integrated into Office 2001, corporations big and small will begin to see enhanced evil productivity.' -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Standard "Change Log" and "ToDo"
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 "Geir Magnusson Jr." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > We use XML format via Anakia in velocity-land and don't have any problems... > I don't really mind. Enlighten me... what are the benefits of an XML based changelog... besides the ability to XSLT it into html (I don't think this is necessary). - -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965 Jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED], Web - http://relativity.yi.org/ Technology is the catalyst for Utopia. -- Me -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt iD8DBQE8F+UPAwM6xb2dfE0RAoxfAJ9c5Ooeq9XYlF5R+piZ1U/gNFCifwCgy+14 cv9DapSlYOiC0ETC8hTSufo= =c5DV -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Standard "Change Log" and "ToDo"
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Paul Spencer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Is their a standard or common "Change Log" and "To Do" format for Jakarta > projects? I would like to add a change log to the Jetspeed project. No. I have seen a lot of people use XML changelogs. This is WAY overkill IMO. Just use text an a GNU style format. Version x.x - --- * changed foo so that it is now bar > It appears the Cocoon project uses Stylebook. Jakarta projects use Anakia, > but I have not found any macros in Jakarta-site2 that reference a Change Log > or To Do list. I predict that they will become sick of working with an XML format :) Kevin - -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965 Jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED], Web - http://relativity.yi.org/ Help! I'm a neural net trapped inside a man's body! -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt iD8DBQE8F9a8AwM6xb2dfE0RArD/AJ91IZScOTevPjNo5zibeUCwZkOIlgCfZuau qpdnKV9+UICYvHvppF1HUCI= =/skJ -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Comment for Apache.org
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 "Paulo Gaspar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > The list is named [EMAIL PROTECTED] and not > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Ok, I suggest the creation of such mailing list and the creation of > a "Jon" page explaining the whole "Jon issue"... linked from Jakarta's > home page, of course. Hm... Is Jon becoming the Richard Stallman of the Apache Software Foundation ;) ;) ha. - -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965 Jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED], Web - http://relativity.yi.org/ Without enlightenment, there is only ignorance. -- famous Zen Koan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt iD8DBQE8Fw8eAwM6xb2dfE0RArjpAKCOCX495SaPwyj7PAN60PWv58rfUQCgmC3K 5n1ERcHsxeNulR8yvrNjoRc= =LR7V -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Comment for Apache.org
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 lloyd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Wow. It would be really great if you wrote an email that made some logical > > Having lurked on this list for awhile, I'd say it would be great if you > could get through one e-mail exchange without being an asshole. Give jon a break. With all the hard work he has done he at least deserves the benefit of the doubt on all these e-mails. When you come close to 1/5th the amount of work he has done for Apache then you can judge. I have no problem with you expressing your viewpoint but calling jon an "*sshole" was over the top. If you don't like it, unsubscribe. Kevin - -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965 Jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED], Web - http://relativity.yi.org/ A Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer is to computing what a McDonalds Certified Food Specialist is to fine cuisine. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt iD8DBQE8FSyFAwM6xb2dfE0RAp8iAKCbEpLGQ52WbHE9poEt+eECgpAbRACgw7A3 VIbWAD3QMgVuHh2lIv5oVfQ= =Fdvt -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: commentary by Linus Torvalds
Neville Burnell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > anyone remember Lotus Developments and WordPerfect Corporation ... they had > billions in the bank too Lotus == IBM WordPerfect == Corel. Still around... just different names :) -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965 Jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED], Web - http://relativity.yi.org/ Yoink dot adios backslash loosers! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: commentary by Linus Torvalds
Jon Stevens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > <http://groups.google.com/groups?q=g:thl2361245693d&hl=en&selm=linux.kernel. > Pine.LNX.4.33.0111301643170.1224-10%40penguin.transmeta.com> > > I wonder why he says Sun is doomed. I always wonder how people can say any of these companies are doomed. They have billions in the bank. It would take years and years and years of stupidity to drain this money down to 0. SUN, Microsoft, Oracle. They are not going anywhere. They will just change their strategy. ... then again you should never underestimate the power of stupidity :) -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965 Jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED], Web - http://relativity.yi.org/ Stuff to read: <http://www.toad.com/gnu/whatswrong.html> What's Wrong with Copy Protection, by John Gilmore -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: License Question (JDBC 2 vs. JDBC 3)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Berin Loritsch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Sam Ruby wrote:
> >
> > Berin Loritsch wrote:
> > >
> > > public class java.sql.SavePoint {}
> > >
> > > Sun guards the java.* classes jealously, and I need to know if this
> > > is really a solution.
> >
> > What Sun generally tries to do is to stop people from extending or
> > subsetting the full API. What you are describing certainly looks like a
> > subset to me.
>
> Are you sure it is not a superset? In a Jdbc 2.0 environment, this class
> is not even available. All the other classes are not touched, superceded,
> or anything. I can make the SavePoint interface match Sun's definition,
> which would avoid the "subsetting" issue. The question is, is this enough?
What package is your hacked SavePoint? Some VMs (AKA JDK 1.4) won't allow you
to load javax.* from your normal classpath if that package exists in the boot
classpath.
Might want to be careful of this.
Kevin
- --
Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] )
Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965
Jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED], Web - http://relativity.yi.org/
There have been false reports that CNN has not used the word 'terrorist' to
refer to those who attacked the World Trade Center and Pentagon. In fact, CNN
has consistently and repeatedly referred to the attackers and hijackers as
terrorists, and it will continue to do so.
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Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt
iD8DBQE74xPXAwM6xb2dfE0RAmzeAJ9d1pqxyx4CnpteclMH8GYz8lwj6ACcDsrl
PdfDcH2IXCHUBp7qfXMxxpU=
=Vpzp
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Re: [OT] Microsoft Sets Tolls for .Net Developers
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jon Stevens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Why am I not surprised? > > The funny thing is that even in this down economy and with all the free > (better?) alternatives that are out there, people will actually still pay for > this stuff! > > We should put a paypal link on the Jakarta homepage and donate the money to > AIDS research or some other worthy cause. How about the EFF?? I would think this is the best cause epecially for this community. The EFF has a paypal account setup and they have a CGI based API for doing this type of purchase. At the end it would redirect to the download page of your choice. Kevin - -- Need a good Engineer? Hire me! ( Java | P2P | XML | Linux | Open Source ) Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965 Jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED], Web - http://relativity.yi.org All your MP3 are belong to us! -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt iD8DBQE72IrzAwM6xb2dfE0RApFtAJ0TSMA7td0+LCdn0K+UMbRb8Ug1GACfSoka VtrYqbIwU+qoR8/VfFZkeBg= =f8Tc -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Lutris backs off support of Open Source Enhydra, citing problems with Sun
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hm... very interesting. http://www.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=01/09/13/2036205&mode=thread Looks like SUN has pulled another Homer Simpson :) - -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Cell: 415-595-9965 URL: http://relativity.yi.org ICQ: 73488596 Source code is free speech! -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt iD8DBQE7pBdoAwM6xb2dfE0RAtQgAKDIdye+a/sziN9tMD/5d1/LlXCEBwCeIawg 4Fj2ohyVhSbM7Yp714ncckc= =esK1 -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
SUN complains because there is no Java in XP...
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 ... slightly off topic. http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/21285.html There was discussion here about this last week. It seems to me that SUN has nothing to complain about. No one (no significantly large percentage of users) uses Java for client side use. Why would anyone want Java in XP by default. I mean they can only fit 650M or so on a CD and the JDK is starting to get pretty big :) Seriously.. If SUN wouldn't have been so strict with Java licensing it would be ubiquitous by now. Compare Linux (or even *BSD or Apache) growth with Java grown over the same time frame. Linux has done very well and Java is still stuck on the server. Heck it isn't even standardized. A good measurement of this is to look at grass roots websites. How many websites are dedicated to Linux vs Java? There are only about 3-5 Java dedicated (significant) websites but Linux has about 50-100 or so. So the moral of the story? Open Source Java, gain 100% industry acceptance and the next time MS ships an OS, so many people will be using Java, they will have no choice but to include it. Hope SUN is paying attention... this is important. Kevin - -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Cell: 415-595-9965 URL: http://relativity.yi.org ICQ: 73488596 ... Whereas it is essential, if man is not to be compelled to have recourse, as a last resort, to rebellion against tyranny and oppression, that human rights should be protected by the rule of law... -- Universal Declaration of Human Rights, United Nations, 1948 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt iD8DBQE7isD0AwM6xb2dfE0RAp9PAKCV7GRywkBP8nAS8T1s4xh1MAeiOQCeKWhk fvzjHCL3cogMad/NZy5qtUY= =ouFZ -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Servlets better for most companies!
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jon Stevens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > on 8/23/01 4:23 PM, "Kevin A. Burton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Try convincing someone to use Torque instead of their $200,000 EJB > > server it is like trying to drive your hand through a 6' wall of > > steel... > > Or Torque instead of TopLink, which I'm hearing has 5/6 digit pricing now, and > is very similar in API and features to Torque. > > The mentality of these people is astonishing sometimes. It is totally illogical isn't it? The only only explanation is one my grandfather put forth. They are all masochists! Kevin - -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Cell: 415-595-9965 URL: http://relativity.yi.org ICQ: 73488596 Iron rusts from disuse, stagnant water loses its purity, and in cold weather becomes frozen: even so does inaction sap the vigors of the mind. -- Leonardo da Vinci -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt iD8DBQE7hZ3NAwM6xb2dfE0RAoRVAKDMPeLMFaMkDY303hVAw/ecJJw/eQCgk7JX 56B4/j0vfX//RDV+YX+DuQo= =tGQo -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Servlets better for most companies!
Jon Stevens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Sigh, I have been saying this for well over a year now... > Companies wasted more than $1 billion between 1998 and 2000 on high-end > Java application servers that provide far more capabilities than are > needed on most Web sites, says research firm Gartner. And, if the trend > continues, Gartner estimates that companies could throw away another $2 > billion from 2001 to 2003. It is funny... I think that the problem is the typical pointy haired boss syndrome. You get these morons who get promoted outside of their level of expertise and have to make a technical decision. In order to justify their salary they pick the most expensive technology available. (look how smart I am!) Of course the CEO eats it up because he can brag to the investors that they spent $500,000 on Oracle and EJB licensing... (because their technology is so amazing) ug... The hard part is trying to convince someone that Apache technologies are superior. (these cost exactly $0.0)... Try convincing someone to use Torque instead of their $200,000 EJB server it is like trying to drive your hand through a 6' wall of steel... ug... Kevin -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Cell: 415-595-9965 URL: http://relativity.yi.org ICQ: 73488596 Give a man a flame and keep him warm for the night. Set him on fire and keep him warm for the rest of his life. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: sun has to release java
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 "Pier P. Fumagalli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Nael Mohammad at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > The only thing preventing Java from manifesting is Sun itself. > > > > Sun get a clue, you fought MS hard and won and now you cry wolf when the > > leader of the pack refuses to support Java. > > > > What's wrong with you? > > > > Does MS bitch to you not bundling IE for Unix with your Solaris. NO! So why > > should they support you, if has no economic value to MS? What EVA is earned > > if you refuse to license JAVA to MS? None! So stop the CRYing. > > > > What you should do is let JAVA manifest itself by just donating it to the > > OPEN Source community. Just let it go! And Java will be the defacto standar > > and not MS. > > (To defend my employer a little bit)... Might as well... no one else is doing it ;) ;) > I believe no Sun official ever "cried > wolf" when Microsoft removed Java support from Windows XP. Hm... guess a full page add in the New York Times last week doesn't count. ;) I am on the train right now so I can't find the URL > Actually, (personal opinion) removing a 1.1.4 from the OS gives us the > opportunity to push the Java 2 platform more strongly (no more people coming > to me saying "tomcat doesn't work with Microsoft JView... THERE'S NO JVIEW > ANYMORE!) I agree. JView was terrible. Kevin - -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Cell: 408-910-6145 URL: http://relativity.yi.org ICQ: 73488596 The IQ of Evolution is directly proportional to the square of the IQ of the organisms it created. -- me -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt iD8DBQE7euUlAwM6xb2dfE0RAoFeAJ9eyr+Z1LarNE+Ej1/j6L+8iIk16gCeM6YF 7tEI2pryJGUFvNe5C1h4EK0= =VsxJ -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] $un, M$ and Java
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Peter Donald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > The other success windows has had is forcing hardware vendors to use > standards. Again... this isn't Windows. This is Microsoft and their monopoly. :(. Of course this is getting off thread ;) > > Windows hasn't been successful. Microsoft's marketing and monopoly engine > > has been successful. They could have thrown *anything* down our throats :) > > It is only been successful because they deliver what users want. I may never > use windows again and same with you but we are definetly a minority in what we > want out of a OS. They only "deliver what users want" because there is *no choice*. Everyone who isn't a computer geek is forced to use either Windows or MacOS. I wouldn't say thts is what people want :( > > > > and the FSF is developing a free JVM clone. > > > > > > Initially there was about 7 JVMs. Currently there is only 3 remaining > > > (kaffe, japhar and gcj). All of them are incompatible, more resource > > > intensive and slower than any vaguely modern JVM. > > > > Do you have evidence to back up your claim that GCJ is "more resource > > intensive". I am not challenging you but I just want to see more docs on > > GCJs performance. > > Well I was actually kinda thinking about resource usage in respect to > kaffe/japhars memory usage. GCJ doesn't have this problem. GCJ still as of a > few months ago was still a LOT slower than IBMs jvm ... even when not using > ClassLoaders. I suspect it was because I was using a lot of small objects and > virtually no primitives. Not sure. IBM's JIT is *very* advanced. The IBM Research papers on it were impressive. The GCJ JIT isn't as advanced but I am sure it will eventually make up for it in time. Kevin - -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Cell: 408-910-6145 URL: http://relativity.yi.org ICQ: 73488596 Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose that you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself. -- Mark Twain -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt iD8DBQE7eW7hAwM6xb2dfE0RAkTOAJ9+Xtsn1ivZysE1ZM/s6oBWniAJCgCfXaNy FOta6Tb2yca9wATS4ztMez4= =n2Yx -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] $un, M$ and Java
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Peter Donald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Tue, 14 Aug 2001 09:53, Alex Fernández wrote: > > > It truly is a convenience. If a user is buying a PC with JRE > > > preinstalled, they will use it--or explore using programs that use it. > > > It opens up a lot of potential clients for our OSS projects. Let's face > > > it, we chose to build a lot of projects on a proprietary "standard". > > > > That's right. And that's why we should be pushing to make Java a true > > standard. In fact, Sun should be pushing this way too, if they would > > just realize that only open standards have ever been successful against > > monopolistic practices. > > Sure they have - ever heard of a little OS called Windows .. apparently it has > a fair bit of marketshare. I am sorry. I consider Windows to be a total failure. Most people say they hate their computers but they really hate Windows. I don't have to explain the instability, security or other flaws which are present in Windows. Windows hasn't been successful. Microsoft's marketing and monopoly engine has been successful. They could have thrown *anything* down our throats :) > > A standard body issues the standard, then companies choose to comply or > > not. IBM maintains their own JDK, and it doesn't cost Sun anything. > > umm ... they have a few JVMs but theres a significant proportion that is Sun > owned/licensed. Most of the stuff that IBM provides is at the C level... I would bet that 90% of this code comes from SUN. > > and the FSF is developing a free JVM clone. > > Initially there was about 7 JVMs. Currently there is only 3 remaining (kaffe, > japhar and gcj). All of them are incompatible, more resource intensive and > slower than any vaguely modern JVM. Do you have evidence to back up your claim that GCJ is "more resource intensive". I am not challenging you but I just want to see more docs on GCJs performance. > Most are about 3 years behind. Nothing even in the same vacinity as IBMs JVM. Still a proprietary JVM. I am just happy that we at least have alternatives with GCC 3.0. - -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Cell: 408-910-6145 URL: http://relativity.yi.org ICQ: 73488596 You have no chance to survive, make your time. ha ha ha -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt iD8DBQE7eNYWAwM6xb2dfE0RAkjXAJ98/0w1Vn7S3fFxvaZyN5fqFZj9rQCdHGo+ 3ffXQ1/81x6pzkfIA7+0VJQ= =/jKu -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] $un, M$ and Java
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jon Stevens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > on 8/13/01 4:53 PM, "Alex Fernández" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > What would change if Apache used GPL? > > I would quit. > > :-) Good to hear you have an open mind ;) ;) - -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Cell: 408-910-6145 URL: http://relativity.yi.org ICQ: 73488596 Live life as if you were going to die tomorrow; Learn as if you were going to live forever. -- Mahatma Ghandi -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt iD8DBQE7eNUVAwM6xb2dfE0RAmpcAJ0e660CoQfe0LvUT8ExT9QsOA68OwCghOXJ tvTW76WXE+TYeKsCkraZBM4= =1XgD -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] $un, M$ and Java
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Berin Loritsch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > "Kevin A. Burton" wrote: > > > > > What I would like to see is something *better* than the JCP. I believe in > > > open research. OSS fits a great many needs, but there are some key points in > > > Free Software (GPL/LGPL) that I don't necessarily agree with. > > > > I don't think that *anyone* should have problems with Free Software itself. > > Apache is Free Software. I think you probably mean copyleft. Copyleft is a > > controversial concept and I think it is still a number of years until it is > > really appreciated. > > When I spoke of Free Software, I spoke with the definitions that Richard > Stallman uses--which excludes Apache. Apache is OSS compliant though. Send Stallman an e-mail right now.. [EMAIL PROTECTED] He will tell you that Apache *is* Free Software. It is important that we don't forget this! :) > As to Copyleft appreciation, I used to be a proponent of that approach. The > benefit of Copyleft is obvious to many people, however it's license is not > written in an easily understood manner. This leads to potential violations > whether intentionally or not. The simplicity of the Apache Software License > or the X Server License makes using them easier. I am more confident with > those licenses because I can usually incorporate any code I want and all will > be well. There are paracitistic violations that the copyleft prevents. If you are not afraid of this (which I assume many OSS fans are not) then BSD/MIT licenses are fine. I personally straddle the fence. > My conclusion of the whole licensing issue is this: for the desktop or user level > software use the GPL, but for server side stuff where you need to provide dynamic > elements that are corporate specific use an ASL style license. I think that is over simplyfing. There is a lot of server level software that is GPL. > There are fewer issues to deal with when you use this type of approach. I am > pretty pragmatic, and I use what works for me. Most of the time OSS works for > me due to budget constraints (I would rather spend $2000 to fix a broken > transmission than buy a new IDE). :) Kevin - -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Cell: 408-910-6145 URL: http://relativity.yi.org ICQ: 73488596 My first job was programming binary load lifters, very similar to your Evaporators in many respects. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt iD8DBQE7eBRtAwM6xb2dfE0RAq4SAKDAzoyQ3xShJ2BiSYA5Y4HlSgjYKQCglTAY vt1qjGiNfCZuFBBak3jYjik= =leZy -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] $un, M$ and Java
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Berin Loritsch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > "Kevin A. Burton" wrote: > > > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > Jon Stevens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > > > <http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-200-6839693.html?tag=mn_hd> > > > > > > I hate this! > > > > "Sun called on consumers "to demand that Microsoft include the Java platform in > > their XP operating system." Sun also said consumers should demand "PC vendors > > like Dell, Compaq, Gateway, IBM and HP (Hewlett-Packard) include the Java > > platform in their applications." > > I don't have a problem with this at all. It means that I can have clients install > my software without having to download anything first. Sure it helps SUN, but it > also helps me. Kind of a win/win situation if you will. Only a win/win until Microsoftian tactics are used. Let's not forget history ;) > Another benefit will be a larger number of people complaining to SUN about > certain defects or performance drops with every new release of the Java > language (1.3 is slower than 1.2 which is slower than 1.1.x on several IO > routines). I realize that JDK 1.4 is supposed to seriously address these > issues, but there are other issues with JDK 1.4. Of course this doesn't scale very well at all. I totally agree with you on the bug/bloat issue but if Java were OSS we wouldn't have this problem. > It truly is a convenience. If a user is buying a PC with JRE preinstalled, they > will use it--or explore using programs that use it. It opens up a > lot of potential clients for our OSS projects. Let's face it, we chose to build > a lot of projects on a proprietary "standard". Hey... I am moving to GCC :) > You might think that, but there are a number of MS shops out there who > implement things on MS technology because it was MS. Case and point, I worked > on a project for a couple state law enforcement agencies, and my employer > insisted on an all MS technology. When we tried to drum up more business, the > remaining states were clamoring for Oracle and Unix--so the division folded up > with two successful projects under it's belt. The example shows both the > danger of dependency on MS technology, and the cycle of dependancy it forces > you in. I don't have a problem with that. There are a LOT of masochists in the world :) I think the point that I was trying to make, which I belive is a truism, is that Open technologies succeed and closed technologies usually fail. IE TCP/SMTP/HTTP/etc. > > - - If it were GPL/LGPL MS couldn't embrace and extend? > > They would find a way--or they would step up the FUD campaign. With SUN > controlling Java, there is little that MS can do to belittle it. SUN has > proven itself in the marketplace, and serves as that single point to blame if > something goes wrong. That accountability keeps SUN honest in regards to > Java. What is the point of a "single point to blame" if the problem isn't fixed? I think I have been able to blame SUN for a *number* of years now and that hasn't changed anything. Java is still buggy and bloated. > > > - - They don't have to spend the millions of dollars they spend on maintaining the > > JVM. > > They can explore a number of options with maintaining the JVM that could potentially > lower the amount that they spend. Basically the cost of maintaining the JVM won't > change (it might even increase), but it will be spread accross many companies that > maintain it. I don't think so. I think it will be reduced. I don't think this is a point worth arguing over (and I shouldn't have brought it up) because there are a lot of numbers here which are internal to SUN and we don't have all the information to make an correct hypothesis. > > - - Universal industry acceptance of Java. > > Ok, you now have bitten the "OSS is the god of the software world" bug. > OSSing Java would actually alienate a number of large IT firms. Why? They would be alienated by open standards? > I know personally a couple customers of my company that would not allow it on > their servers simply because it is open source. (They don't allow Apache > HTTPD on their servers for that reason, even if it has been proven time and > again). Fine... let them go! I don't want them using Java then! :) Honestly I think that Java's biggest problem right now is the proprietary software vendors and users. We have been contaminated by the MS crowd :( > Let's face it, SUN promotes Java well. By making them lose control of
Re: [OT] $un, M$ and Java
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 "Sam Ruby" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Kevin A. Burton wrote: > > > > - - No more competition from .NET/C#. (why would anyone want to support an MS > > proprietary language?) > > s/MS proprietary language/draft ECMA standard language/. ECMA also has a > fast path to ISO. Java was on the ECMA/ISO path too. When it is finalized then we can talk. > With not one, but two [L]GPL implementations underway > (http://www.go-mono.com, > http://www.southern-storm.com.au/portable_net.html). Microsoft is even > teaming up with Corel to ensure that there is a version for FreeBSD. Sorry... where is the code I can download? The point I am trying to make is that these don't exist yet. When I can download a 1.0 release that will be something but until then they don't exist. - -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Cell: 408-910-6145 URL: http://relativity.yi.org ICQ: 73488596 Given the price-conscious nature of this sector, Linux would be the odds-on favorite, since it typically costs no more than a fifth the price of Windows 2000. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt iD8DBQE7eAVvAwM6xb2dfE0RAsGbAKCABJFbkhl1vGyaflOUnHzqiFeTyACgp+bD CxSKzQRtl7HSaxjO8vKQwng= =doD9 -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] $un, M$ and Java
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jon Stevens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > <http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-200-6839693.html?tag=mn_hd> I hate this! "Sun called on consumers "to demand that Microsoft include the Java platform in their XP operating system." Sun also said consumers should demand "PC vendors like Dell, Compaq, Gateway, IBM and HP (Hewlett-Packard) include the Java platform in their applications." Why would we want yet ANOTHER proprietary application shipped as a standard on an OS? It would be a different story if the JVM were OSS but guess what? It isn't. Why would I want to help SUN increase their stranglehold over the computer industry? It seems to me that as soon as they OSS Java, all their problems will go away: - - No more competition from .NET/C#. (why would anyone want to support an MS proprietary language?) - - If it were GPL/LGPL MS couldn't embrace and extend? - - All the bugs that have been sitting in the JVM for *years* will finally get fixed. - - They don't have to spend the millions of dollars they spend on maintaining the JVM. - - Universal industry acceptance of Java. - - Tons of cool stuff! :) Of course SUN has done stupid things in the past. The Sourceware Operating System Proposal ( http://www.bitmover.com/lm/papers/srcos.html ) being the most striking. This is a brilliant document and is well worth the read. Kevin - -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Cell: 408-910-6145 URL: http://relativity.yi.org ICQ: 73488596 Intellectual property does not exist! Get over it! -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt iD8DBQE7d3awAwM6xb2dfE0RAhBpAKDA1D7EMwvLjFA6hoidEphdncWWDgCdG0qk bhOWolw/84V89Wi5amQ+Bso= =6BMi -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] $un, M$ and Java
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Berin Loritsch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > --- Jon Stevens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Lets see: > > > > Sun doesn't open Java so that M$ can do cool stuff > > with Java and put them > > out of business. > > Some of that stuff was cool, but it broke platform neutrality (hmm, familiar > modus operandi). If M$ decided to make it _obvious_ that COM integration was > a M$ specific feature instead of muddying the concept of what the proper API > was, it wouldn't have been such a big deal. This is a big worry for SUN. Of course if Java were GPL they wouldn't have to worry about Microsoft's embrace and extend. > > M$ attempts to do cool stuff with it anyway by > > creating a clean room > > implementation. Go M$! > > I don't mind a clean room implementation. I don't mind them trying to get a > really fast VM. I just want to be assured software I write works in EVERY > PLATFORM--with no mods. Was it clean room??? I don't think it was! I think that MS *did* break their agreement with SUN so they did have a right to sue. - -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Cell: 408-910-6145 URL: http://relativity.yi.org ICQ: 73488596 You have no chance to survive, make your time. ha ha ha -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt iD8DBQE7d3S6AwM6xb2dfE0RAjCpAKCKnoJAxBZD8JrDPxF6XmAerEHatgCfcZI2 CKdARSyh02jyhIIGkhS25o4= =ym20 -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] $un, M$ and Java
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 "Geoff Soutter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > "Jon Stevens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > M$ creates competition with .NET and removes Java from its OS. > > The thing I don't get is that they are removing Java _1.1.4_ from their OS. > > Who _cares_ about JDK1.1.4? > > Anyone around here developing software for JDK1.1.4? :-) Yeah.. totally agree! Everyone is freaking out that MS has removed their JVM yet it is a piece of garbage. For all intents and purposes Windows hasn't had a JVM for the last few years! Once again the press does something stupid! :( Kevin - -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Cell: 408-910-6145 URL: http://relativity.yi.org ICQ: 73488596 The worse thing in life is to fall short! -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt iD8DBQE7d3QuAwM6xb2dfE0RAjlNAKC9wDy8k/7TTIJJXjpm7AjhIDdtIwCfS9Gb BDMwq2iP3pHhrGTYjpPPzqw= =Mtm5 -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[ANNOUNCE]: Talon 0.1.0. Java based lightweight Component System.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 OpenPrivacy.org (http://www.openprivacy.org) would like to announce the creation of the Talon project (http://talon.openprivacy.org). This release is available at: http://download.openprivacy.org/talon-0.1.0.tar.gz The Talon mailing list is also available: http://openprivacy.org/lists/ Overview: Talon is a simple yet powerful component system similar to XPCOM or Microsoft COM. Talon solves a number of problems with these existing systems and is designed to incorporate Reputations (Sierra) as part of its Component factory mechanism. The use of Reputation to drive component selection enables a Talon based system to evolve over time, becoming more powerful. This mechanism is similar to advanced profiler technologies but works with distributed systems. Advantages: * Thin factory/component mechanism for managing components. * Utilizes Reputations to determine how to best serve/create a Component. Components can be served based on interface name, reputation and bias of the requester. (planned for 1.0) * Simple, easy to use and doesn't require significant modification of application design. * All objects within the system have a unique URI and can be requested from the ComponentFactory via this URI. This is desirable within distributed P2P component environments. * Talon provides a central code/project location for standard interfaces (logging, property management, etc). This enables developers to code to a standard interface across projects. * Maintains object lifetime (pools, singletons, on-demand, etc) without having to dedicate application logic to this task in outside projects. * Talon initializes itself automatically which eases application integration. * Written in 100% Java so that legacy languages don't damage the integrity of the API (no IDL, interface based, etc). * Dual licensed under the GPL and BSD style. This allows Talon to be used within projects from the Free Software Foundation *and* the Apache Software Foundation. Commercial projects may also use Talon as the BSD license is very flexible in this respect. - -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Cell: 408-910-6145 URL: http://relativity.yi.org ICQ: 73488596 Those willing to give up a little liberty for a little security deserve neither security nor liberty. -- Benjamin Franklin -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt iD8DBQE62Vw4AwM6xb2dfE0RAhrSAKCJ/vyt6BnLScWt/sT6nN7mFdpu0wCeKFIo NzNO8Hsr9LDgmmyQkzTz1vk= =AQas -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: PGP Key for Jakarta Project
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jon Stevens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Hey all, > > The goal is to be able to sign our downloads with a PGP key for the Jakarta > Project. This will enable people to verify that the downloads have not been > tampered with. > > Thus, I have created a PGP Key for the Jakarta Project and uploaded it to > the ldap://keyserver.pgp.com server. The email address for the key is > [EMAIL PROTECTED] I have already signed the key with my own key. > Right now, I also own the password to the key. I'm not really sure what to > do with it though (any PGP experts out there?). :-) Generally it is a bad idea to do this. I think it is just better to have everyone that publishes Apache downloads sign them with their own key (ANNOUNCE messages should also be signed). If the key ever gets compromised you have a problem with recovery, you would have to tell the keyserver that this is invalid and then create a new key. BTW I believe if someone has the passphrase they can do this anyway... > Next week at ApacheCon, I will bring my laptop and get people to also sign > this key with their key in order to build up a valid trust network. So, what > I'm asking for is others to also bring their PGP keys. ... if you uploaded this to a keyserver it should work right now. You can sign the jakarta key right off the key server. I generally think it is better for individuals to do their own signing instead of acting like a group, it sounds good at first but there are a number of problems that can arise. - - everytime someone leaves the group you have to create a new key - - you have to give the passphrase out (which involves an encrypted message anyway so your target already has to have PGP) - - individuals might be more hesitant to lay the reputation of "Jakarta" on the line for something they publish. Instead it is better if the reputation hit happens to the person that actually uploaded the content. ... anyway. Kevin - -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Cell: 408-910-6145 URL: http://relativity.yi.org ICQ: 73488596 Linux is both Open Source and Free Software, Java is neither! -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt iD8DBQE6w+EGAwM6xb2dfE0RAvFcAJ0djYYYALf76suTMGJmKwrOT1ckJQCfWudv o0osT9bZvvtTNoEE3oW7hIw= =fF2Z -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Test Infrastructure Project Proposal
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 "Sam Ruby" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > GNUs stance is never to compromise which means that the only way > > for APL to fit in is to remove advertising/name clauses which > > is unfortunately where one of Apaches strengths are > > I suspect that that clause is not the core issue. > > http://mail.gnome.org/archives/foundation-list/2000-August/msg00207.html You can already see GPL projects accepting dual licensed code. A good example is Mozilla with is approaching dual MPL/GPL. Galeon (http://galeon.sourceforge.net) is embracing this and it is becoming the psuedo-standard GNOME browser. GTK 2.0 has a Browser component based on Mozilla. I think it is called gtkhtml or something. Kevin - -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Cell: 408-910-6145 URL: http://relativity.yi.org ICQ: 73488596 Yes I know my enemies, they're the teachers who taught me to fight me; compromise, conformity, assimilation, submission, ignorance, hypocrisy, brutality, The Elite. All of which are American Dreams. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt iD8DBQE6nFL9AwM6xb2dfE0RAoBpAKDSzAo5CeBADraheZZjQwdmB1DDVwCeJzB2 iGefPrhNQrjcz5iwIMOdwJw= =kKvE -END PGP SIGNATURE- Ortega Waco, Texas nuclear Mossad World Trade Center explosion Uzi genetic assassination ammunition KGB domestic disruption Serbian security smuggle - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Test Infrastructure Project Proposal
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 "Sam Ruby" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > IANAL, nor do I play one on TV. But I have seen quite a few good people > try to resolve what appears on the surface to be a deceptively simply > issue, and fail. Significant attempts have been made, but each time > objections have been addressed, new ones have been raised. I think this is a large enough issue for me to personally spend time on. We have to projects pending release that I would like to see dual licensed (this does not include Arrowhead) and it would be nice to have had a discussion of these issues before hand. I think that it is possible but it is nice to be able to dissolve all the FUD before it is officially thrown :) Kevin - -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Cell: 408-910-6145 URL: http://relativity.yi.org ICQ: 73488596 Criticizing an Open Source project for their level of progress is akin to criticizing someone else for not giving enough to charity, while giving none yourself. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt iD8DBQE6nFJdAwM6xb2dfE0RAr1lAJwOMJNms7nW5Ekb0fEC/GcDjWpFRwCfTRWN A/GFX8mmpyQBDMGT3bPV+TY= =oAe9 -END PGP SIGNATURE- Peking BATF Ortega North Korea AK-47 [Hello to all my fans in domestic surveillance] Albanian cryptographic nuclear Rule Psix terrorist genetic World Trade Center Noriega SEAL Team 6 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Test Infrastructure Project Proposal
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Peter Donald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > At 11:15 27/2/01 +0100, Alex Fernández wrote: > >Probably you have a stronger case here, but I'd like to know the opinion > of the PMC on the > >subject, if they think it's worthwhile. Would you accept dual > (ASL/GPL)-licensed code? Why? > > In short it is not the responsibility of the PMC to accept or not accept > dual licensing. It is a responsibility of the apache members > foundation-wide (as they are the copyright owners). I suspect that this > wouldn't occur although I hope that the next version of APL and next > version of GPL could be interoperable. I already asked Stallman about this issue. He says no. :(.. I can forward his e-mail ... if I can find it. Kevin - -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Cell: 408-910-6145 URL: http://relativity.yi.org ICQ: 73488596 Faced with the choice between changing one's mind, and proving that there is no need to do so - almost everyone gets busy on the proof. -- John Kenneth Galbraith -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt iD8DBQE6nFHpAwM6xb2dfE0RAtr8AKDSa8Bz/l3FFebYWO1quQUIMEqAZgCdHswg SU4eEdgXRSpruBU8eQVE1Hg= =P+B2 -END PGP SIGNATURE- Uzi cryptographic kibo KGB explosion nuclear smuggle Panama munitions FSF domestic disruption bomb FBI ammunition Serbian - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Test Infrastructure Project Proposal
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Alex Fernández <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Hi Kevin!
>
> "Kevin A. Burton" wrote:
>
> > If you subscribe to the BSD philosophy that in order to have a strong software
> > development model you need to be loose with your licensing so more people can
> > easily embrace your code. Dual licensing allows the GPL camp to accept our code
> > into their fold and treat it like a first class citizen. No more wars. They
> > get to keep their GPL philosophy, we get to keep our BSD philosophy. Just flip
> > the coin and it is a win-win situation :).
>
> I like the idea, and I deeply respect your point of view (philosophy). I'm talking
>about
> practical aspects.
>
> Suppose Apache Software Foundation has a codebase, Foo 1.0. It's dual-licensed: BSD
>or
> GPL, whatever you choose. Now the FSF likes it, so they choose GPL and develop Foo
>1.1
> under GPL. (They would never work with dual-licensed code.) No mention at all in the
> credits.
First off, forking is an essential right in any Open Source project. For
natural selection to really take hold we need to allow individuals to try out
new ideas and see if they work. That said it is VERY hard to fork an Open
Source project. Just imagine trying to fork Apache httpd into another
project... would never happen unless you had a REALLY good reason to do it.
The FSF might decide to fork but they would have to put a LOT of work into the
code base to make it that much better and there would have to be REALLY good
technical reasons.
BTW part of the fork effort here would be justifying the GPL only switch. A lot
of developers that are BSD fans would stick to the dual licensed code.
> On the other hand, suppose some evil company takes it and releases an independent and
> improved Foo 1.2 under BSD license. Now, they don't have to release the source code
>--
yup. you have to consider this when you release your code. BTW this can happen
under ALL BSD licensed projects and if this is an issue you should use the GPL.
> We're not even to the point of enforcing the license. Imagine what a big company can
>do
> in a trial if they're sued, with this kind of license.
- - Scenario 1:
- Lawyer: Which license did you use?
- Company: GPL
- Lawyer: Did you release your source?
- Company: No
- Lawyer: No further questions your honor.
- - Scenario 2:
- Lawyer: Which license did you use?
- Company: BSD Style
- Lawyer: Did you give the original developers credit?
- Company: No
- Lawyer: No further questions your honor.
The enforment is easy. It is just like enforcing any existing license.
Kevin
- --
Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] )
Cell: 408-910-6145 URL: http://relativity.yi.org ICQ: 73488596
Without enlightenment, there is only ignorance.
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Re: Test Infrastructure Project Proposal
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Alex Fernández <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Hi folks. > > "Kevin A. Burton" wrote: > > > ... the truth is somewhere in between. I think Dual Licensing solves the > > issue. You get your BSD and I get my GPL :) :) :) > > It's rather a lose-lose situation. You lose control over the derivatives if I want, > and/or you lose credit if I choose. This is a short cited viewpoint. You are only looking at the negatives of the decision. Each decision you make in life only has its positives. I could say that when I moved to San Francisco I lost out on all the fun snow on the East Coast. That would be neglecting all the cool things about San Francisco (and there are tons). If you subscribe to the BSD philosophy that in order to have a strong software development model you need to be loose with your licensing so more people can easily embrace your code. Dual licensing allows the GPL camp to accept our code into their fold and treat it like a first class citizen. No more wars. They get to keep their GPL philosophy, we get to keep our BSD philosophy. Just flip the coin and it is a win-win situation :). Kevin - -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Cell: 408-910-6145 URL: http://relativity.yi.org ICQ: 73488596 My first job was programming binary load lifters, very similar to your Evaporators in many respects. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt iD8DBQE6ljvNAwM6xb2dfE0RAhRLAJ94oFFnzELckD4Eu1XuIYYe/HFMkACg01Nr TkhdZQeG8XfftqRC1N5251Y= =qyZ6 -END PGP SIGNATURE- AK-47 DES Uzi Serbian Rule Psix kibo NORAD Mossad Ft. Meade Khaddafi munitions jihad genetic cracking spy - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Test Infrastructure Project Proposal
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Ceki Gülcü <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Absolutely agree. However, a good portion of the world does not. We should > strive to accommodate both camps. Could anyone explain what dual GPL/APL > licensing really means? Thanks in advance, Ceki I talked to a lot of people about this. Basically you include two licensing agreements with the product. Prior to use the "user" must agree to one of them. There needs to be some warnings about the fact that the license you pick might not be compatible with other software. You also should have a section about how contributions to the product are accepted. You should say something about how if you want to make a contribution your additions will have to be dual licensed as well (even if you don't agree with the other license). Of course this isn't too restrictive because the user/developer always have fork rights. Kevin - -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Cell: 408-910-6145 URL: http://relativity.yi.org ICQ: 73488596 The unconstitutional government, for the corporation, by the corporation, must be overthrown! -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt iD8DBQE6lhmpAwM6xb2dfE0RAtlcAKC2GwBupufKP0hNk2Rl+1ayMawTFACfUJ3V +siUOBxBQ7wecAwBNLYnJWE= =xZ/z -END PGP SIGNATURE- [Hello to all my fans in domestic surveillance] Marxist nuclear counter-intelligence CIA PLO Panama Khaddafi KGB Ft. Bragg quiche ammunition Peking South Africa Saddam Hussein - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Test Infrastructure Project Proposal
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Ceki Gülcü <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Peter, > > Thanks for your reply. My question was really about the logical meaning of dual > licensing. For example, assume that the GPL has requirements G1, G2, Gn and the > APL has requirements A1, A2, ..., Am, does dual licensing mean: > > 1) All of G1, G2, .., Gn, A1, A2, ..., Am must be satisfied. > > 2) Either all of (G1, G2, ..., Gn) must be satisfied or all of (A1, A2, ..., Am) > must be satisfied but not both group of conditions. It is 2... You have to pick either the GPL or the APL. > Interpretation 1 is the worst of both worlds. As such I don't think it would > satisfy anybody, quite the contrary. > > Interpretation 2 is probably correct. What happens to derivative work licensed > under GPL/APL? Must it be GPL/APL too? In particular, what happens to fresh code > that links to the original GPL/APLed code... > > Doesn't dual licensing leave the door wide open for abuse? If tomcat were dual > licensed, then one could usurp the tomcat label (by invoking GPL terms) and have > code with a totally different license link with tomcat (by invoking APL > terms). This situation is not logically equivalent to 2 but who is going to > prove otherwise? Are you confused? I know I am. Ceki I don't understand this situation could you please explain? Kevin - -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Cell: 408-910-6145 URL: http://relativity.yi.org ICQ: 73488596 Our nation should be split into warring factions, each ruled by a warlord who receives messages from God it has *got* to be better than this stupid Electoral college! -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt iD8DBQE6lhqEAwM6xb2dfE0RAiMLAJ98hiIVbYve/m0HYp1DFGR4qpj8NwCffpVC CiyI6D/oS3EVNDHGqHCVwUo= =Ra7d -END PGP SIGNATURE- fissionable Cocaine Soviet security Khaddafi North Korea Ft. Bragg explosion Qaddafi Clinton colonel supercomputer Honduras cracking spy - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Test Infrastructure Project Proposal
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jon Stevens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > on 2/22/01 2:58 PM, "Kevin A. Burton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I think it is worth while to make the argument that as long as it is *either* > > GPL or APL the license can still be under Apache. Why??? You can still use > > the APL as much as you want... the only thing we are allowing is that now the > > GPL camp can use our software. > > > > Kevin > > No offense Kevin, but that is a really bad argument to state in this camp. > :-) The simple reason being that people in the GPL camp CAN use and > distribute our software without any real restrictions. No... they can't. I can't use the Servlet API from Tomcat within a GPL product... > It is the fact that BSD zealots (including myself mind you) I am a BSD zealot too :). Also a GPL zealot. It is just case dependent :) > cannot use GPL software in conjunction with BSD software that is the > issue. Dual licensing the code isn't the solution because it is a hack to work > around the larger issue...which is the viral nature of the GPL and is > something that I fundamentally don't believe in. The viral issue won't ever be resolved. I think this is the Zen of the issue. Just deal with it. :). GPL won't be going away any time soon. The point is that you can still use you BSD license jon. :). I can use the LGPL license if I want to write code for GPL projects. Not only that but it doesn't spawn wars like KDE vs GNOME which just wind up hurting everyone. > The solution is simply putting a less restrictive license on the software in > the first place ah. this is a HUGE bag of worms. What does "less restrictive" mean? Putting on my GPL hat I would say that the BSD license is more restrictive because it doesn't give me (the author) rights over derivative works. Putting on my BSD hat I would say that the GPL is more restrictive because it requires that everyone release source code for products even if they don't want to. ... the truth is somewhere in between. I think Dual Licensing solves the issue. You get your BSD and I get my GPL :) :) :) > and understanding that there is no need to force people to > release changes to your source code into the larger community because if you > have a decent community in the first place, the changes to the software will > come back on its own eventually regardless of the license. ah. no. I wish the situtation were like this in all situations jon. The truth is it isn't. :( It is somewhere in between. This is why I think that when you go to license a software project you need to approach the issue on a per-project basis. You can't really (accurately) make a blanket statement like "BSD for everything" or "GPL for everything". GPL really does solve a lot of problems. BSD solves a lot of problems. I am not trying to come up with any resolution to either of these issues, I just want to resolve the conflicts with both camps by letting each roam free and do what they want. - -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Cell: 408-910-6145 URL: http://relativity.yi.org ICQ: 73488596 proprietary == evil -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt iD8DBQE6lhinAwM6xb2dfE0RAhC7AJ473BZrs8vxeOSGt+Ftg82eKieAhACgsTBM jm8f6W+HT/xHarZn0qZzzM8= =sciX -END PGP SIGNATURE- Waco, Texas Khaddafi munitions Albanian DES Mossad North Korea NSA KGB smuggle South Africa Peking class struggle Nazi Treasury - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Test Infrastructure Project Proposal
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jon Stevens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > on 2/21/01 10:05 PM, "Kevin A. Burton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > The goals are to move it back > > under Apache as long as we can keep the dual LGPL/APL License. > > > > Kevin > > Sorry. That won't happen (as far as I know). The ASF board would never go for > it. Yeah :).. I know. This is why we took it to the side for a while. I think I can make a logical case for this... politics aside. The major philiosophy within the ASF is that we should give people the freedom to use our code anyway they want. IE to *truly* Open the code. The only problem with this is that the GPL side can't work with our code base at all. That includes the work I do with the GNU Java Compiler, etc. I think it is worth while to make the argument that as long as it is *either* GPL or APL the license can still be under Apache. Why??? You can still use the APL as much as you want... the only thing we are allowing is that now the GPL camp can use our software. Kevin - -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Cell: 408-910-6145 URL: http://relativity.yi.org ICQ: 73488596 YEAH!!! I'M A MIME! -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt iD8DBQE6lZmLAwM6xb2dfE0RAtsCAKDJDP2CE0Un1HOCLppzr5Dpv6Ts3gCfRcVU L0LsbtVgMVvaJuWYsS39yA8= =bHmR -END PGP SIGNATURE- kibo ammunition FSF genetic Ortega SEAL Team 6 Mossad Marxist PLO Treasury counter-intelligence Peking Semtex radar explosion - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Test Infrastructure Project Proposal
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jon Stevens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > on 2/11/01 1:15 PM, "Doug Davis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > The point being that: > > It doesn't matter that JUnit doesn't do what you want. The fact of the > matter is that instead of creating yet another project to do Unit testing, > you should work with the JUnit people to help mold JUnit into what you want. > > The reason being: > > It creates a better product and a better community when we all work > together. > > Now, if the JUnit people didn't want to have that functionality built in or > if their license wasn't compatible (fyi, it is the IBM Public License), I > could understand doing a fork, but that obviously doesn't seem to be the > case. > > Conclusion: > > You have no excuse for not working with them to help improve their product > other than your lack of wanting to work together with people. ... sorry for the dated reply.. had the flu last week :(. Jon. You are taking an extreme position here. In evolutionary systems mutations are necessary for progress. Getting the right mix of mutations/deviations and passing on successes is somewhat of a Zen. That said there are cases where working on the same source base is a Good Thing. The same can be said for forking. If someone doesn't like a project or whe way things are laid out, it can be beneficial to start in a new project space. I don't know why Peter Donald didn't mention it but he and I have been working on the Arrowhead unit testing framework. http://arrowhead.sourceforge.net. I did an extensive review of the JUnit code base. I agree that without a significantly advanced code base it isn't worth competing. That is when I found Peter's code base under Avalon. This is a 2nd generation (where JUnit is 1) unit testing framework. It is very clean code and well thought out. JUnit did an excellent job for the time but was showing its age. It needed to be rewritten IMO. This is where Arrowhead comes in The code should speak for itself. I haven't had time to work on it lately as I am trying to get another 2 projects released. The goals are to move it back under Apache as long as we can keep the dual LGPL/APL License. Kevin - -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Cell: 408-910-6145 URL: http://relativity.yi.org ICQ: 73488596 Our nation should be split into warring factions, each ruled by a warlord who receives messages from God it has *got* to be better than this stupid Electoral college! -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt iD8DBQE6lKw/AwM6xb2dfE0RAoIYAJ0YNtQz9YBVUcUoUE3WPnzAXO3jbQCeL9BB 97iVu7UY7r5dF8acGvlnZm4= =b5d6 -END PGP SIGNATURE- Serbian Marxist Noriega kibo Peking Treasury supercomputer Albanian genetic Ft. Meade arrangements cracking nuclear NORAD plutonium - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] PMC Chair ELECTION!
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 James Duncan Davidson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On 1/23/01 7:23 PM, "Sam Ruby" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >> Sam -> [ ] > >>[X] <- Craig > >> Abstain -> [ ] > > Oh, isn't that just hilarious! :) I demand a recount! - -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Cell: 408-910-6145 URL: http://relativity.yi.org ICQ: 73488596 In the end, only kindness matters. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt iD8DBQE6hcR/AwM6xb2dfE0RAk9jAKDLT91ewtIVBdiaWG2SP0BXleH9WgCeLfzk TCzMgXTj5ZkaUhS1SISNidY= =ZO0/ -END PGP SIGNATURE- supercomputer domestic disruption Peking Marxist cryptographic Khaddafi Ortega BATF quiche Semtex terrorist munitions fissionable spy plutonium - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
